Advent Talk
SDA Media & News => Hope TV => Topic started by: WillowRun on April 10, 2010, 08:21:55 PM
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I take a break from SDAism for a while. This whole 3abn thing has really made me question my faith.....but I miss my SDA preachins so, feeling Amazing Facts is more trustworthy... I go to Amazing Facts to get some afternoon listening while at work on Friday...and there is an announcement about their new satellite network..
Color me astounded....
Willow
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Hello Willow,
You sound like you might live outside US. I am going through exactly the same thing with "SDAism". I am even more upset with their connection with 3abn leaders. It feels so wrong without church strength or foundations. I am wondering if the Catholics are feeling the same with all their laundry out too? Maybe that is when some Catholics will go searching. They might turn to the Bible theirselves. I am astounded at what I am seeing, but yet knew something would happen to appear the "organized " church was in apostasy. EGW had tears when she saw the state of the Advent people in last days.
Looks like someone else feels this way too. Just thought I would bump this up as I just read it for the first time.
In the first century of our era a few men and women evangelized the civilized world of their time. Did they do it with the RADIO? Did they do it with the TV? No, they just went from place to place and preached the GOOD NEWS, as Jesus told them to do! They did not need mass media or multimedia to fulfill the Great Comission, and neither do we!
I watch TV once in a blue moon, and I don't care about it. Someone in my family, though, receives signal from 3ABN, and every time I watched their programs I was disappointed. Such a waste of time! I can get in an hour two times as much Bible study and doctrine than I get in one whole day on 3ABN! And if I want music I used one of the many CDs that contain really good quality traditional and contemporary gospel music. I don't need to watch hours and hours of fluff and show, to admire and envy people dressed in expensive clothes walk on stilts around the stage and pretend to be spiritual! The role of the TV stations, whatever they may be, is nothing more than to entertain their audience, and this is what the TELEVANGELISTS do at 3ABN and everywhere else.
George Vandeman was a charming and amazing speaker on the screen, but how many know the struggles he had in his family while he was pretenting that everything was just PINK? I am tired of all this HYPOCRISY clad in fake and arrogant religious clothes! Men and women whose lives are in the tank and who are brokenhearted must play the role of saints to amuse people who have nothing better to do than to spend most of their time in front of the magic box!
Wikipedia has a very instructive article on TELEVANGELISM and its problems. All of us need to learn from its historical background and understand that such TV shows are doing much less good than it is claimed. On the contrary, a lot of sincere people have been driven away from God because of the disappointments they have had with the fake "men of God" who were after power and money. We will find out soon how much of the "Christian work" at 3ABN has been inspired by motives that have nothing with Christianity and Jesus.
Here are some EYE OPENERS for those who think that all is well on the "CHRISTIAN SHOWS:"
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CONTROVERSIES
Televangelists are the subject of considerable controversy. Both their methods and theology have received widespread criticism from both church and secular sources. Many televangelists are featured on discernment websites run by Christians that are concerned about what they see as departures from sound Christian faith. The following are amongst the issues that have been raised:
Lack of accountability. Many televangelists exist outside of established churches. They have little or no oversight from denominational structures and many are accountable to no-one. In cases where their ministry is run by a board of directors, this is frequently made up of family members and other people who will not challenge the televangelist. Other televangelists, however, are members of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, an independent organisation which promotes high financial standards amongst Christian ministries.
Supernatural theology. Many televangelists hold charismatic or Pentecostal viewpoints, believing in spiritual gifts, divine healing, and other miracles. These subjects remain controversial within Christian thinking. In some instances, claims of miracles have been shown to be fraudulent.
Flamboyant lifestyles. Some televangelists have accumulated significant personal wealth from their ministries and own large properties, luxury cars, and even private jets. This is seen by critics to be contradictory to Christian principles. There is also frequent confusion between personal and ministry assets.
Financial emphasis. Televangelism requires substantial amounts of money to produce programs and purchase airtime on cable and satellite networks. Televangelists devote much time to fundraising activities. Products such as books, CDs, DVDs, and trinkets with supposedly miraculous powers, are aggressively promoted to viewers. Opponents regard such an emphasis as inappropriate and also question whether the money would be better used relieving poverty or employing traditional missionaries.
Personality cult. Traditional Christian teaching emphasises the following of Jesus and not a particular preacher, however televangelism tends to build a personality cult around the televangelist.
Health and wealth teaching. Many televangelists preach a prosperity gospel that promises material success to believers, subject to their generous donations to the “work of God”, which inevitably means the televangelist. This is regarded as a serious heresy by other Christians.
False prophecies. Numerous televangelists have issued false prophecies, for example Benny Hinn’s claim that Fidel Castro would die in the 1990s, or Pat Robertson's claim that the War in Iraq would end in 2006. Other televangelists have made false prophecies of the Second Coming.
False teaching. Televangelists frequently depart from or add to traditional Christian doctrines.
Entertainment focus. The style of televangelism seems to mirror that of the secular entertainment industry, with emphasis on celebrity, slick production, and aggressive marketing.
Disputed success. Televangelists claim to be reaching millions of people worldwide with the gospel and producing numerous converts to Christianity. However, such claims are difficult to verify independently. It has also been questioned whether non-believers actually watch Christian television.
Televangelists often strongly dispute these criticisms and say they are doing God's work. They cite declining attendance at traditional church services and the growth of global mass media as factors necessitating the use of television to fulfill the "Great Commission" in the 21st century.
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I see in “God’s Work” done at 3ABN the same:
1. Lack of accountability
2. Supernatural theology
3. Flamboyant lifestyles
4. Financial emphasis
5. PERSONALITY CULT
6. Health and wealth teaching.
7. False prophecies
8. False teachings
9. Entertainment focus
10. Disputed success
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How about the extraordinary SCANDALS that have involved the TELEVANGELIST from the beginning of these TV shows? Here is something else we need to look at:
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CHRISTIAN TELEVANGELIST SCANDALS
Numerous televangelists have been at the center of well-publicised scandals, including financial, sexual, and religious.
Many televangelists promote the doctrine of divine healing and would claim that God can heal people through them. Christian views on this subject vary, and it is seen as pseudoscience and charlatanry by non-Christians. A number of claims of healing miracles made by televangelists have been exposed as fraud, for example in the case of Peter Popoff.
A series of scandals in the 1980s resulted in the fall from grace of some famous televangelists, such as Jim Bakker, who served a prison sentence for financial improprieties associated with his ministry, and Jimmy Swaggart, who made a famous tearful confession to a dalliance with a prostitute. They have continued preaching, nonetheless, even though their audiences may be a small fraction of what they were at the height of their popularity.
Controversial claims have also been made by some, as when Oral Roberts told his television audience in 1987 that he had to raise $8 million in donations or "God would call him home". He ended up raising $9.1 million.[9]. Shortly after the September 11 terrorist attacks, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell said that it was divine retribution provoked by rampant sexual immorality. In 2005, Robertson announced on The 700 Club that Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez ought to be "taken out" by the US government. Many viewed this as a call for assassination. Later that year, in November, Robertson warned the town of Dover, Pennsylvania of a severe natural disaster following the defeat of the local school board for advocating intelligent design.
Brazil is also a country in which televangelists have found success, and some have faced accusations of improprieties. In 1992, Edir Macedo, a Brazilian televangelist and founder of the Universal Church of the Kingdom of God was imprisoned for accusations of charlatanism, and spent some days in prison. More recently, in 2002, the Época magazine, controlled by Globo media group published two new articles making accusations at Igreja Renascer em Cristo. In 2006, Brazilian Justice blocked all goods of the Hernandes couple, leaders of the church because of accusations of money laundering, fraud and identity theft.
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IMHO, Danny Shelton is going to be soon another embarrasing addition to the HALL OF SHAME of the once fallen and never recovered TELEVANGELISTS. I am looking forward to the day when,
"The pride of man will be humbled, and the loftiness of men will be abased; And the LORD alone will be exalted in that day" (Isaiah 2:17).
Eduard
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Color me astounded....
Interesting that AFacts cranked up their network on March 19, according to one notice I go, just three days after Tommy's arrest. Coincidence?
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Hello Willow, You sound like you might live outside US.
Hello Tinka...actually no, I don't live outside the US. ;D I live in Northwest Arkansas about 45 minutes from the Wal-Mart home offices.
My connection to 3abn misdeeds goes all the way back to a summer in the early 1990s. I was doing home visit ministry with a certain elder/(retired sda minister) in the SDA church with a group of my fellow church members. I was new to the faith having been baptised in1991. Another of our group, the elder's niece, asked about an incident that involved persons associated with the then fledgling 3abn. The elder confirmed it true then proceeded to tell us that it should go no further. His reason....it was important that 3abn not fail as it was important to get out "the message" in these last days. I asked my personal pastor and he agreed with the elder that it should'nt be spoken of that it was more important that message get out then to take care of the wrongs persons I will not name publicly. This did not sit well with my conscience, I kept silent and it was wrong. I need to write someone else a letter of apology as my silence contributed to this someone's mistreatment. All sin is sin no matter how small.
I left the church formally in 1995. People I looked up to as Godly and righteous failed me terribly...so I attend church on line and carefully pick and choose where I send my tithes/offerings. I think things should have been nipped in the bud in the early 1990's and perhaps the mess that occurred and continues to unfold would have been averted. I feel guilty for my very small part in keeping quiet when I should have spoken up. Wasn 't it Peter who denied Christ 3 times?
One thing I did do all those years ago was purpose NEVER to give a penny to 3abn. I never will.
I must say I thought very much of the elder/retired pastor. I still have fond memories of his kindness to me personally. I even allowed him to dedicate my twins in January of 1994 at the Springdale SDA church.. I have pictures somewhere.....Those twins will be 17 in September. This gentleman is quite elderly now and I believe he has moved from Arkansas to live near 3abn after his wife passed away from congestive heart failure....
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Willow,
I understand perfectly how you must feel. This is a prime example of what I think can happen to many people that are brought into a truth by the church and then can't themselves do what was shown to the newcomer. but once something like this happens it drives them away. At one time I was ready to go even tho deep rooted for 5 generations. I finally ralized that I would not be led away or into anything until I took the effort to make sure what move I might make. I truly belive this is the right foundation for me. But I just can't stand the thing that is bringing it down. But we are told how it will be. The things we have been through is worse then anything on here from members and for many years. It was almost to the point where I felt God did not even want us to be in His church from what the people did. It took me long hard time to study it out to where I was. I still get actually sick to my stomach to even get a glimpse of certain individuals. But yet it is not a hate or get even thing because I read where that if God chooses you to test others we must have faith in what he does. It just hurts so bad and to be so deceived that you just fold up at times. Also in later days unless you can be sealed in the faith where you cannot be moved it is better not to even be brought into the church. This is why I get a little verbal on here about what I see happeining on the Advent tv channels and the monkey shines going on. It is just too much and too late as it is totally obvious the church as an organization is not going to do anything about it. So my husband and I just try to work with people around us and who ever comes into our path.
also, now I remember you did say about Ark. and Mike Huckabee, I have watched him closer now and I admit I belive you are right. I am seeing more and more what you say. It is just he was brand new and never heard of him and some of his politics for the tax system I thought pretty good. But now as we watch very close it is now detectable what you state. Once I detect a fence rider, I am done. But never in my life have I feared what is coming to America. Not so much for myself but for the people. I am wondering if it would be alright to email you to see if you know someone mutual? If not that is ok.
Thank You Willow for being friendly and posting back.
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Color me astounded....
Willow
You see, the Tommy Shelton story made its way into the Washington Post. The Washington Post is delivered to everyone in nearby Silver Spring, Maryland, home of the Seventh-day Adventist Church world headquarters.
There comes a point when the Adventist professionals in Washington DC become embarrassed when their non-adventist golfing buddies at the country club start seeing these stories and asking about them. Elite, Washington professionals -- the self-described "thought leaders" of the church -- do not want to hand their car keys to a valet who is snickering at them behind their backs.
Now that the entire Roman Catholic Church is circling the drain over the same issue, with calls for the Pope to be arrested when he lands his plane in London, it shouldn't be too difficult to envision something happening in the Adventist Church similar to the chain of events that created Amtrak.
Amtrak was set up to take over the struggling passenger train services in the United States. Now, the California Zephyr and the Empire Builder, named passenger trains run by independent railroads, are run by the government-controlled Amtrak. There are other Amtrak passenger trains like these two operating throughout the country.
Amazing Facts Satellite Network may simply turn out to be the Adventist Church's answer to Amtrak; something set up to take over floundering media services in other parts of the country.
It's unlikely, long term, that both Amazing Facts Satellite Network and 3ABN TV will continue to operate in the same neighborhood. Some towns can only support one Wal-Mart or one K-Mart, but not both. Could the same be true for 3ABN and Amazing Facts? Time will tell.
While this might not be the end of 3ABN as an independent, ongoing, family business, some will say that they can see the end of 3ABN from here.
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Thank you for your input Little Grasshopper. I've tried to keep my church involvement as local and independent as possible. When you have national/world organizations they tend to follow a pyramid shape with the power most concentrated at the top. And the top is usually rotten to the core.
Willow
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I am through with 3ABN! Right here in 2010 they pulled the same trick they did in 1998! They interviewed a couple of workers fromin Haiti. They had served there for 20 years. They cared for orphanages. Interview went great. Time came for names and addresses of the nice folks from Haiti. The fellow mentioned they were non-denominational! They still asked for donations to be sent to Haiti or to 3ABN! They are proposing to send Adventist money to other non-Adventist! Low and behold they did it again on the same Sabbath! Of course I had to listen to recommendations for books to purchase!
Then I have to listen to them glorify Brenda. I threw my hands up in the air and said no more! I am an Adventist, however, their actions by performing "No Action" action is wearing mighty thin.
Hope TV will get my attention for a while, but after watching Mike and Gayle Tucker today, I may regurgitate them also!
My question is why has God allowed them to continue for so long? Then I feel guilty and remind myself it is none of my business.
I knew about Tommy before 2000, but here it us 10 years later God finally gets around to bringing to light what Tommy did in the dark. How much longer will we have to wait to see the same for 3ABN???
The IRS investigation is still NOT over! This is not an investigation that was squeaky clean. I reported them back in January 2000!
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Fran,
Instead of guilty feeling, I think we are embarrassed and angry for their taking advantage of good for the bad. I am pretty sure that is the reason our emotion towards it. There is only a few places of "Hope" that I can tolerate. New Adventists of little knowledge at their new beginning do not know the difference...for now. But as they learn and see all talk and no walk, what does it do? they walk away and the truth passes them by.
I have a terrible feeling that all our most favorites are being tested as they do not shun the appearance of evil as they mingle. Is sure is sobering. Just do not know what more to think of the matter. It is not that I am in no way perfect or judging but I know what SP is about and why as I see the disregard plastered all over "Hope anything goes channel".
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So, we are supposed to only assist the SDAs in Haiti?
I am through with 3ABN! Right here in 2010 they pulled the same trick they did in 1998! They interviewed a couple of workers fromin Haiti. They had served there for 20 years. They cared for orphanages. Interview went great. Time came for names and addresses of the nice folks from Haiti. The fellow mentioned they were non-denominational! They still asked for donations to be sent to Haiti or to 3ABN! They are proposing to send Adventist money to other non-Adventist! Low and behold they did it again on the same Sabbath! Of course I had to listen to recommendations for books to purchase!
Then I have to listen to them glorify Brenda. I threw my hands up in the air and said no more! I am an Adventist, however, their actions by performing "No Action" action is wearing mighty thin.
Hope TV will get my attention for a while, but after watching Mike and Gayle Tucker today, I may regurgitate them also!
My question is why has God allowed them to continue for so long? Then I feel guilty and remind myself it is none of my business.
I knew about Tommy before 2000, but here it us 10 years later God finally gets around to bringing to light what Tommy did in the dark. How much longer will we have to wait to see the same for 3ABN???
The IRS investigation is still NOT over! This is not an investigation that was squeaky clean. I reported them back in January 2000!
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Are you aware of another Satellite TV system?
They are also on the same transponder frequency as 3ABN, Hope TV, Amazing Facts, and LLBN.
It is called Amazing Discoveries.
Their web site and program schedule is:
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/amazing-discoveries-satellite-schedule.html
Perhaps I should have posted this as a separate thread, but thought letting everybody here know about another alternative here was also a good idea.
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Amazing Discoveries is mostly produced by Professor (Dr.) Walter Veith, a South African with a very interesting backstory.
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Fran, Darlin' you are operating under the mistaken belief that you maybe entitled to see God bring their dark to the light, to see them get what is coming to them, etc. You are not.
You know, that God works with each of us individually. He is working with them just like He is working with us, in His time, not ours, not even theirs. We are just blessed that our sins are not very public ones, and unlike us, God doesn't not enjoy putting out sins on blast.
I am through with 3ABN! Right here in 2010 they pulled the same trick they did in 1998! They interviewed a couple of workers fromin Haiti. They had served there for 20 years. They cared for orphanages. Interview went great. Time came for names and addresses of the nice folks from Haiti. The fellow mentioned they were non-denominational! They still asked for donations to be sent to Haiti or to 3ABN! They are proposing to send Adventist money to other non-Adventist! Low and behold they did it again on the same Sabbath! Of course I had to listen to recommendations for books to purchase!
Then I have to listen to them glorify Brenda. I threw my hands up in the air and said no more! I am an Adventist, however, their actions by performing "No Action" action is wearing mighty thin.
Hope TV will get my attention for a while, but after watching Mike and Gayle Tucker today, I may regurgitate them also!
My question is why has God allowed them to continue for so long? Then I feel guilty and remind myself it is none of my business.
I knew about Tommy before 2000, but here it us 10 years later God finally gets around to bringing to light what Tommy did in the dark. How much longer will we have to wait to see the same for 3ABN???
The IRS investigation is still NOT over! This is not an investigation that was squeaky clean. I reported them back in January 2000!
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The IRS investigation is still NOT over! This is not an investigation that was squeaky clean. I reported them back in January 2000!
Thanks for keeping us up to date on this, Fran.
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Fran, Darlin' you are operating under the mistaken belief that you maybe entitled to see God bring their dark to the light, to see them get what is coming to them, etc. You are not.
You know, that God works with each of us individually. He is working with them just like He is working with us, in His time, not ours, not even theirs. We are just blessed that our sins are not very public ones, and unlike us, God doesn't not enjoy putting out sins on blast.
I am through with 3ABN! Right here in 2010 they pulled the same trick they did in 1998! They interviewed a couple of workers fromin Haiti. They had served there for 20 years. They cared for orphanages. Interview went great. Time came for names and addresses of the nice folks from Haiti. The fellow mentioned they were non-denominational! They still asked for donations to be sent to Haiti or to 3ABN! They are proposing to send Adventist money to other non-Adventist! Low and behold they did it again on the same Sabbath! Of course I had to listen to recommendations for books to purchase!
Then I have to listen to them glorify Brenda. I threw my hands up in the air and said no more! I am an Adventist, however, their actions by performing "No Action" action is wearing mighty thin.
Hope TV will get my attention for a while, but after watching Mike and Gayle Tucker today, I may regurgitate them also!
My question is why has God allowed them to continue for so long? Then I feel guilty and remind myself it is none of my business.
I knew about Tommy before 2000, but here it us 10 years later God finally gets around to bringing to light what Tommy did in the dark. How much longer will we have to wait to see the same for 3ABN???
The IRS investigation is still NOT over! This is not an investigation that was squeaky clean. I reported them back in January 2000!
Actually Di, I don't agree with the asumption that Fran wants to see what your stating. I believe anyone on here wants to see the corruption stopped.
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But that might not be for you to see either. God will work it definitely work it out.......but in His time......not ours. That might mean that 3ABN willb e up to their no good until we are gone. The Bible says, "Vengance is Mine, saith the Lord", but I also believe so is justice.
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Vengeance might be coming sooner rather than later...
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Is a person willing to minister without reimbursment? Are they willing to expend themselves to spread the gospel without getting paid to do it? Without using it as a marketing tool to sell books and CDs for personal gain? Are they willing to forego fame, glory, aclaim, and publicity? Are they willing to minister to others without making themselves central to the attention and glory?
Tinka, you and I have vast differences in some areas, yet, I find myself in agreement with you a lot. :pals:
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George,
check your mail. :pals: yes, we agree!
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We watch Amazing Discoveries a lot. They have replaced 3ABN as
the only station telling it like it is. They are preaching the three angels
message, counteracting the counterfeit 3ABN is not. We try watching it once
in a while and get discouraged and switch.
Just some thoughts. We know that time is short and what must be done must
be done soon.
You take care and keep us informed.
H & J
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Johann,
Do you get this amazing discoveries on TV or computer or is it just where you liv?Where do I find that? I have dishnet. It sort of sounds like DBatchelor programming.
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I just looked at the Amazing Discoveries website. I couldn't see where you could watch it on the internet. We watch the program on the same satellite as the HOPE channel and all the other Adventist channels. So if you can watch HOPE and LLBN on TV, then you can watch Amazing Discoveries.
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Hope is on Direct TV and now I remember a glimpse of that but I changed to Dishnet but now I will check if I have the LLBN channel on Direct. But thanks for the info.