Advent Talk
Theology Category => Sabbath School => Topic started by: Johann on April 06, 2012, 03:23:54 PM
-
tinka
Veteran Member
*****
[Quote from: Alex L. Walker on Today at 02:46:18 AM]
OK! The SBC including myself have issues with the Adventist on grave sleeping...That is NOT biblical either. Neither is the Adventist position on hell! There are many strong differences between Adventist and the SBC.
Maybe an easy way to look at this Alex is this:
There is only One "Immortal"
If all that sin-- does not die, them we are Immortal too
Most believe, we have a soul or (ghost) that goes back to heaven after we die, and the wicked go down to hell. There is no Hell except the grave is called that and death called a sting.
Hell or more real is the Hell fire "fire of destruction after the 1000 years that Satan is loosed on earth with his angels. Even the wicked dead until that time.. know nothing under the sun, hear, worship, love or look out for others as so now very popular to believe. It is not biblical.
It is the breath of life that (only is returned to God as he gave it the moment of birth) Breath of Life and Spirit in that context is the same
Then at birth called now a "living soul"
All souls shall die, or if one dies on the side of Jesus, it mentions we are asleep in Jesus,
People that have went to sleep in Jesus or died do not know anything that is going on under the sun
We are only mortal and Only God Immortal.
The first Resurrection is for those who sleep in Jesus and righteous, No Spirits or ghosts of human beings, go anywhere until that time. Only the invisible Holy Spirit is in ghost form not humans. Satan yet has that power but not us. The second Resurrection is for the unjust after the thousand years, If you read in rev. it is plain, very plain
In your belief, maybe or for sure the Catholics, believe we will be looking down from heaven for eternity to watch eternal burning of bodies. Not so either, It only means "until" stubble" and never more a chance for eternity. as they will be as they never were " forever" or finality of the wicked.
The Heavens and earth are made new and Creation is then witnessed by the saved and then Holy City descends in the place of original Garden of Eden,
It is important to find truth for your own individual satisfaction. At least we will be accountable for doing so.
That is why it says to beware of false Prophets
It's a wonderful feeling to follow and read actual Biblical timeline. It is wisdom and feeling of being secure in God's word. It don't take long to read Rev
EGW was only called to present 3 rd Angels message and the inspiration to make fine details of "prophecy " more clear. Never did she give out doctrine of her own but gave better insight to symbols and put all History together to show Bible was "Infinite truth." and to correct fanaticism of a lot of people and to warn them of wrong and doctrine directing back only by Biblical scripture. You must realize also people that like to "progress to change" will not be happy with reading as she "always pointed back to scripture" and nothing more and she did not call herself a "prophet" like the people did.
Our religion is simple but only for those that give self up to truth. SDA has only been the last stepping stone from Martin Luther, Lutherans, Methodist, Baptist etc, etc, to present day to finally bring back "all " the law of God and people from early ages no longer knew. After that Jesus comes. and truth is spreading very fast but few will heed. Most Adventist, do come in because of History of original Sabbath change but don't really can't seem to shake self wants and changes on how to abide in simple love back to Jesus with almost no change of their characters. Yet we have some of the best Evangelist, preachers, and teachers and christians in the whole world that God is still leading that will multiply from other folds and as the sands of the seas while a lot of Adventists will be lost because of the advantage they were given.
-
Tinka, you are stating here how you have experienced the Word of God in your life. How important is that for you to understand His Word the way you do here?
-
A witness is one who gives a testimony, one who attests to something that he or she knows from personal experience. A Christian’s personal testimony regarding the work of God in his or her life can be very powerful. On one occasion Jesus healed a demon-possessed man (see Mark 5:1–19). When the healed man wanted to follow Jesus, Jesus told him to: “ ‘Go home to your friends, and tell them what great things the Lord has done for you, and how He has had compassion on you’ ” (Mark 5:19, NKJV).
Without question, the short time that Jesus spent with this man was insufficient to tutor him in the art of teaching or preaching. Nevertheless, Jesus told him to witness about what he knew. That is why Jesus said to him, “ ‘Go and tell.’ ”
What have we experienced?
-
Witnessing, that is, sharing one’s personal experience of God—all with the intention of encouraging others to accept Christ—is not necessarily as organized or as intentional as radio, television, or crusade evangelism. Being a witness can be very spontaneous given that the opportunity to share Jesus can arise anywhere at any time with anyone. We must, therefore, be ever alert for opportunities to share our knowledge and experience.
Who has the "permission" to do this? What kind of education is needed?
-
God has given us the responsibility of sharing how He has changed our lives just as He did to the formerly demon- possessed man at Gadara and to His other followers.
From what spirit have you been cleansed?
-
It’s also a lot easier for people to argue against your doctrine, your theology, your beliefs. It’s not, however, so easy for them to argue against your own personal testimony.
How much of the message of Christ can we bring to others as a personal testimony? Is it easier to preach a doctrine?
-
When was the last time you had a chance to witness to someone about what Christ has done for you? What did you say? What was the reaction? How has Christ changed your life? What is there in your life that would make someone want to learn more about Jesus?
These are important questions from the Quarterly, aren't they?
-
Many people believed in Jesus and accepted Him as their personal Savior because of the testimonies of believers who shared their own life-changing experiences and not simply because people had observed miraculous events.
Have we really accepted Jesus Christ as our personal Savior? What, then, is our testimony?
-
As stated earlier, the most powerful witnessing a believer can do for Jesus is to share his or her personal testimony. That is, the sharing of what God has done for me and how He has affected my life and experience. Usually a personal testimony is expressed in three distinct sections. The first part is a short review of the believer’s life before accepting Jesus as personal Savior. The second part is an explanation of how the person met the Lord. The third is a declaration of the life experience after getting to know Jesus.
How important is this to us?
-
Hearsay is a statement of facts not witnessed by the person testifying in court. What is wrong with hearsay? (You cannot test it to be sure it is true. If I testify that I saw someone strike another person, I can be cross-examined about my ability to see the event and asked about my prejudices and biases. If I testify that my brother told me that he saw someone strike another person, my testimony cannot be tested to see if it is accurate.)
Are Christians today stuck with a hearsay gospel? (It certainly is hearsay for us to say that Jesus lived, died and was raised from the dead. The disciples were witnesses of that, but we are not.)
So, is the witnessing part of the job unavailable to us? (No. We can tell what Jesus has done for us.)
- Cameron
-
xxx
-
Tinka, you are stating here how you have experienced the Word of God in your life. How important is that for you to understand His Word the way you do here?
I was taken to SS from the time of being born and remember much at even a year, Mother said I walked at 7 mo. I had a feeling of God very early. It was instilled by the habits of Sabbath getting ready and excited to go. With always polished shoes, clean hanky, my little purse long white socks etc.
By the time I was 11-13, I heard many people talk about the spirits and people that died were sighted back. I became very upset, so scared, disinterested in heaven as I did not want to be a floating ghost or spirit let alone be with them in heaven. I wanted Jesus to be real and visible and to feel. I wanted to be able to be like I was a body and touch and feel when we went to heaven and so disappointed that it was not going to be that way listening to people talk. I even cried prayed and told Jesus I loved him but did not like ghosts or wanted to be one. (just a child then, smile)
You can only imagine how happy I was to learn of the truth after that a few years later. Now in life I discover that most believe we have an invisible Immortal spirit that comes out of us at death. That horrible feeling that I felt at that time in my life I never forget and constantly I have to feel oh, so relieved that was never true. My worst concern is how people still live with this belief. Do they just want to be invisible spirits or ghosts? Don't know why that affected me that way but it did at that early age. I suppose most may not feel that way as they will always say they are in a better place and watching over us. To me that is a spooky movie that people evidently like to believe. Or maybe just plain don't care how it is.
It is probably this trauma that made me "look for myself" truth in all things.
-
I believe to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I do not believe in grave sleeping.
On the issue of Hell: My dad used to get so mad at Adventist preacher Rick Odle and his interpretation of hell. Adventist believe you just burn up.....that is tottally unbiblical.
I am a member of the S.B.C. I believe slavation is eternal and it cannot be taken away. Some call this "once saved always saved". I agree with that! My dad who was a Free Will Baptist minister believed you could lose your salvation- I do not.
There are MANY differences between Adventist and the SBC.
-
It jogs my mind with great questions of this belief.
When you have an Immortal Spirit that never dies as you state from birth and the Holy Spirit also lives within you while Satan has his spirit also within a human body because we are born in sin, how does all that work?
do you have In and Out of body experiences?? and do these inner Spirits give you freedom of choice or do they decide for you and you are just bone and flesh like the Mormons believe and they are battling it out for your flesh and bones while your Ghostly Spirit is up in heaven? It does present complications especially after you die. I do not think I could hold up mentally under this.
Also by your belief, there really should be no hell either, as all will be saved. Because all have instilled right or wrong with in them provided by Holy Spirit. Even tho we have been born in sin and under this scenario it's really not fare to Satan is it if once saved always save and humans can go on sinning regardless and still be saved while Satan is not. You know he did want back in but according to scripture was refused???
It's hard for me to understand where all the connections work according to scripture.
Just remember one thing we will stand and be judged "from our own efforts to know knowledge on what we claim" and not those of others. No matter who it is.
and yes salvation is eternal but only by One Spirit within us. not our own, nor Satans just the Holy Spirit of God because we invited Him to be housed in our flesh and bones and our heart and mind thus we are sealed for His Kingdom. If we are born with immortal Spirit that never dies this whole mess should not have gone on for 6000 years. It would be a devilish far st.
-
Nice to have you here, Alex!
I believe to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I do not believe in grave sleeping.
Do you believe some of the Bible authors took out a patent on that belief which prevents you from following them?
On the issue of Hell: My dad used to get so mad at Adventist preacher Rick Odle and his interpretation of hell. Adventist believe you just burn up.....that is tottally unbiblical.
I still remember Rick. I met him and heard him preach. I recall him telling us he accepted the invitation to work at 3ABN because that would give him the opportunity to straighten those Adventist out in their wrong understanding of hell. He'd make notes, and it seems like he took some of the videos home so he could know how to beat those Adventist preachers. He studied all of the texts in the Bible and found things there he'd never noticed before.
Do you know what he found?
The Bible teaches that the time is coming when all sin and even death is burned up forever, and does not exist any more in our Universe. It is a total cleansing.
Do you really believe that sin and death will always exist to haunt people forever?
Adventist believe in a total salvation. You seem to believe only in a limited salvation coexisting with evil throughout all eternity? Where do you get such ideas from the Bible?
Another question: Did your father's anger with Rick do either of them any good? Isn't it the LOVE of God which brings us the TRUTH and eternal salvation? What does that have to do with anger?
Jesus brings me a total salvation. Why should He only give you a partial salvation? Are you too great a sinner for Him to love you so fully that He will give you a home in a sinless Universe?
I am a member of the S.B.C. I believe slavation is eternal and it cannot be taken away. Some call this "once saved always saved". I agree with that! My dad who was a Free Will Baptist minister believed you could lose your salvation- I do not.
There are MANY differences between Adventist and the SBC.
What good does an eternal salvation do for you if it has to coexist with sin still in the Universe through all eternity? Scripture gives me the hope and joy knowing that sin and death will be no more in the Universe - it is gone forever and throughout all eternity, never again to bring death and sorrow to me. Only Jesus brings me this hope and joy.
-
Johann- I believe there is an eternal hell and an eternal Heaven.
Those who have accepted Christ will be with him eternally. Those who chose not too will burn in hell for eternity.
Tinka: I do NOT believe everyone will be saved. The SBC believes if you have been saved your salvation cannot be taken from you. Perhaps you have heard of John Calvin? While Calvin was right on many ideas, some of them was far stretched. One of those is predestination. I totally disagree with that idea.
-
Johann- I believe there is an eternal hell and an eternal Heaven.
Those who have accepted Christ will be with him eternally. Those who chose not too will burn in hell for eternity.
Tinka: I do NOT believe everyone will be saved. The SBC believes if you have been saved your salvation cannot be taken from you. Perhaps you have heard of John Calvin? While Calvin was right on many ideas, some of them was far stretched. One of those is predestination. I totally disagree with that idea.
Revelation 21
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
These are the words of God, not man: There shall be no more death! Where the Bible speaks of eternal - means an eternal effect. No more death. No more sin. Total cleansing of the Universe. Thank God for that. Let no man-made doctrine prevent you from having this hope in HIM
-
Johann if you consider burning in hell "death", you could not be anymore incorrect.
People who chose not to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior will burn in hell for ALL eternity.
-
So are you planning to burn in hell for all eternity because you are a practicing homosexual, Alex?
-
Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death not eternal life in hell. Death is defined as the absence of life; not life in another existence. Ps. 6:5 says there is no remembrance of God. In Ez. 28:19 says the king of Tyre, who, according to most Bible scholars is a representation of Satan, will be reduced to ashes on the earth and will never exist again. If he doesn't exist he can't be in hell. Mal. 4:1, 3 says the wicked will be burned up leaving neither root nor branch and they will be ashes under the righteous' feet. Jude 7 says Sodom and Gomorrah were an example of what will happen to the wicked and they suffered the vengeance of eternal fire. They are not still burning. Jesus himself said death is a sleep. You don't know anything when you are sleeping.
This is only a small sample of what the Bible says on the subject of death and hell. The weight of evidence is very heavy on the side of the SDA belief and very light on the idea of an immortal soul. In fact the only way I can get the idea of an immortal soul is to ignore the weight of evidence (plain, unequivocal statements) and misinterpret a comparative few verses. Here are a couple of the plain ones; I Tim. 6:16 speaking of God says, "Who alone has immortality" and I Cor 15:53 which says "this mortal must put on immortality." When does Paul say we must put on immortality? "At the last trump." In other words when Jesus returns. Now if I already had an immortal soul then I wouldn't need to put on immortality when Jesus returns and Paul didn't know what he was talking about.
-
ADMIN STATEMENT
Differences of opinion expressed to other members in the form of threat or blackmail, whether implicit or implied, will not be tolerated under any circumstances from anyone. We can, and will, discuss and differ in a civil manner, and anyone who presumes to present themselves as a threat to another's person, family, community, or livelihood will be removed as unfit to be a part of civil conversation and debate.
No matter how strongly we differ, we can and WILL remain civil.
-
:-)
-
ADMIN STATEMENT
Differences of opinion expressed to other members in the form of threat or blackmail, whether implicit or implied, will not be tolerated under any circumstances from anyone. We can, and will, discuss and differ in a civil manner, and anyone who presumes to present themselves as a threat to another's person, family, community, or livelihood will be removed as unfit to be a part of civil conversation and debate.
No matter how strongly we differ, we can and WILL remain civil.
It's really too bad that some folks just don't get it!!