Advent Talk

Theology Category => Dreams & Visions => Topic started by: countrymouse on May 04, 2008, 07:28:34 PM

Title: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: countrymouse on May 04, 2008, 07:28:34 PM
I was wondering what people here thought of the dreams of Ernie Knoll.  From God or No?
http:www.4hispeople.com.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Ozzie on May 04, 2008, 11:06:18 PM
I was wondering what people here thought of the dreams of Ernie Knoll.  From God or No?
http:www.4hispeople.com.

What is your impression Country Mouse? :scratch:
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on May 05, 2008, 06:05:16 AM
There are 29 pages of discussion about this over at Maritime at the following link:

http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=99023&fpart=1

I would pay particular attention to the last few pages of that topic there.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Ozzie on May 05, 2008, 03:45:34 PM
There are 29 pages of discussion about this over at Maritime at the following link:

http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=99023&fpart=1

I would pay particular attention to the last few pages of that topic there.

Thank you for that link Daryl. It about sums up my thoughts regarding his dreams, but I didn't want to be too judgemental until I learned more.
:TY:
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: countrymouse on May 05, 2008, 07:12:58 PM
Thank you for the link also.  I respect Steve W and Ed Reid very much and have been praying to know if the dreams were from God.  I just pray that Ernie will see that they are not.  It will be very hard for him to get out of the mess.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Chrissie on May 06, 2008, 02:25:59 AM
Thank you for the link also.  I respect Steve W and Ed Reid very much and have been praying to know if the dreams were from God.  I just pray that Ernie will see that they are not.  It will be very hard for him to get out of the mess.

Isn't he being encouraged in his belief in these dreams by a certain couple, who send out quite frequent emails to many SDA's? That would make it even more difficult to gt himself out of the mess that has been created.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on May 06, 2008, 05:05:55 AM
Is this certain couple a well known certain couple?
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Ozzie on May 06, 2008, 03:09:01 PM
Is this certain couple a well known certain couple?

I think we both mean the same couple!
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Ozzie on May 06, 2008, 03:10:27 PM
Is this certain couple a well known certain couple?

They send quite a few 'beg-a-thon' emails; at least once a week.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Artiste on May 07, 2008, 08:14:30 AM
Interestingly enough, one of Ernie Knoll's dream/visions extolls Doug Batchelor as being surrounded by angels that direct his every move and stating that he does no wrong.

I don't think I would be comfortable being endorsed by one of Ernie Knoll's visions.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: countrymouse on May 07, 2008, 04:49:11 PM
Who is this couple that sends out the beg a thon e mails?  The Knolls have my e mail address but I haven't gotten any e mails asking for money, just ones that let me know when they have posted a new dream. 
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Ozzie on May 07, 2008, 08:37:50 PM
Who is this couple that sends out the beg a thon e mails?  The Knolls have my e mail address but I haven't gotten any e mails asking for money, just ones that let me know when they have posted a new dream. 

I am not naming people publicly, in case it is someone else that others are referring too. Each person can do their own research and draw their own conclusions.

The emails I receive are not from 'the Knolls'.


Edited for typos.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Chrissie on May 07, 2008, 10:43:38 PM
Who is this couple that sends out the beg a thon e mails?  The Knolls have my e mail address but I haven't gotten any e mails asking for money, just ones that let me know when they have posted a new dream. 

I think that it is prudent not to name names here, unless those people are directly involved with some activity which is being questioned.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Habanero on May 08, 2008, 01:33:08 AM
Does anyone else find it odd that God speaks in 17th century English when speaking through people like Joseph Smith and Ernie Knoll? Is the English of the era of King James the official language of Heaven? Has it been decreed unto God, "Thou shalt not advance thyself in the tongue of the inhabitants of Britain from the time of King James, for unto thee shall come a curse."

Quote
Suddenly I see three angels slowly descend in front of me. The first angel says, “Fear not as we have been sent by the Father which is in heaven.” The second angel says, “We come proclaiming Philippians 2:5-11.” The third angel recites:
Quote
I then hear a voice descend over us from above that all at the same time has the sound of a thundering waterfall, a soft gentle stream and a quiet trickle of water. The voice says, “Ask so as all may see whom My Herald serves.”

Quote
The Herald now steps back and walks to the middle of the room. He holds out the three glass tablets as one tablet and says, “This is a message for all who will accept and be willing to hear.” The tablet says, “Let he that rides dismount and prostrate before the Lord of hosts, the Creator of the universe, He who came to be the created. Bow before your Master and confess your sins so all will hear of your rebellion. A message was sent to a chosen messenger and you denied your Lord’s ear and convinced others to turn away. Repent now and ask for forgiveness so the Father will hear and turn His face toward you. Ask this through and in the name of His Son. Kneel, confess your sins lest the streams and rivers dry up and the horse that drinks die, lest you walk the face of the earth and every ear turn away from you as the words you speak fall like rocks from your mouth. Repent lest the Lord God spew you out of His mouth as boiling seawater.

Let he that holds the keys to the vault repent for the evil you have done and spoken against Me and My servant. Let him prostrate himself before the Master Key Maker and ask for forgiveness and walk no more in the ways of your errors. Let him confess before all of misconstruing what he knows is truth as he has been shown. Confess before all lest the keys be knocked from your hand and placed in the hands of another.

Let this person humble them self before the Lord of truth for speaking errors. Let this person acknowledge a proud boasting walk and ask for humbleness. Let this person admit their faults of using a tongue that speaks against truth lest that tongue be cut off and you walk the earth dumb.

Let all who have spoken evil against the message and messenger I have sent prostrate themselves before the throne of God. Ask for forgiveness in the name of His Son. Let them admit fault and take up their cross and follow the path of Jesus. Let them do this before the book is closed and the name is not written in the book.”
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: reddogs on May 08, 2008, 06:06:51 AM
Excuse me for being so ignorant, but who is Ernie Knoll and what is his connection to the Adventist church, if someone could be so kind as to give a short synopsis...... :TY:


I ask as we already have already seen this week some other peoples similiar claims and where they ended up, so we need to be careful....http://strongcity.info/LOR/sc/page/about_strong_city/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Travesser
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on May 08, 2008, 08:55:28 AM
From Ernie Knoll's own website he said that he is a Seventh-Day Adventist Christian of over 50 years, an ordained elder for over 25 years, and have served as a lay pastor.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: reddogs on May 08, 2008, 09:16:35 AM
From Ernie Knoll's own website he said that he is a Seventh-Day Adventist Christian of over 50 years, an ordained elder for over 25 years, and have served as a lay pastor.

Does anybody know him personally.......
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Habanero on May 08, 2008, 01:11:14 PM
I don't know him personally, and I don't think I know anyone who knows him either. But I do know a growing number of people who are his followers. I am amazed as I see them go. Intelligent, educated people in many cases. I may be missing something here, but I have not seen anything compelling in his writings. He does take some of EGW's lines of thought and expand on them, but I consider that to be a credibility gathering technique as SDAs are more likely to get hooked on something they recognize as solid SDA "truth."

From Ernie Knoll's own website he said that he is a Seventh-Day Adventist Christian of over 50 years, an ordained elder for over 25 years, and have served as a lay pastor.

Does anybody know him personally.......
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on May 08, 2008, 01:24:11 PM
I must say that I was initially hooked until the latest information was revealed over at the Maritime forum.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: reddogs on May 08, 2008, 01:51:56 PM
Well David Koresh also fooled a lot of Adventist and others, some of his followers back in the day came posing as Adventists to my wifes church in Jackson Heights for a few Sabbaths and told her how pretty she was, and that she needed to meet David as she might be chosen as one of his wives.....Well she figure them out and politely declined and dodged a bullet, literally......
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on May 08, 2008, 02:09:01 PM
I used a couple of his dreams in separate messages I gave in our district.

I did look them over closely before using them, however, I won't be using any more of them.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Habanero on May 08, 2008, 03:54:33 PM
 :o Wow!

Well David Koresh also fooled a lot of Adventist and others, some of his followers back in the day came posing as Adventists to my wifes church in Jackson Heights for a few Sabbaths and told her how pretty she was, and that she needed to meet David as she might be chosen as one of his wives.....Well she figure them out and politely declined and dodged a bullet, literally......
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Habanero on May 08, 2008, 04:30:02 PM
Would you mind relating what it was about it that got you hooked?

I must say that I was initially hooked until the latest information was revealed over at the Maritime forum.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: GrandmaNettie on May 08, 2008, 05:48:26 PM
See Habanero's latest post in the dreams/visions thread concerning Ernie's Knoll's followers.

Yes, I read Habanero's post a little while ago.  Sad that the judgement of some is so poor that they would follow such a man, but each person must choose their path in life... and something has led them to believe in his gift. 
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: scratsmom on May 09, 2008, 02:37:07 AM
I must say that I was initially hooked until the latest information was revealed over at the Maritime forum.

Daryl, I tried the Maritime link that you posted and it says access is denied. Do you have to be a Maritime member to read it?
scratsmom  :hamster:
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Ozzie on May 09, 2008, 03:21:03 AM
Is this certain couple a well known certain couple?

I checked this evening to see what was on the particular website of those who I knew to be promoting Ernie and his dreams some time back. There is a notation on that website advising people that they no longer support Ernie and his dreams and they have removed all other references to him, from their website.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on May 09, 2008, 05:34:59 AM
It seems like I wasn't the only one hooked, or taken up by his dreams.

Why was I hooked?  It's because I thought the dreams were in line with both the Bible and the writings of Ellen White.

The two dreams I did use were critically examined by me before I used them in the messages I gave in our church district.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on May 09, 2008, 05:47:15 AM
As the topic was started in a private forum of Maritime, you do need to be a registered member there in order to access the topic about this there.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on October 10, 2008, 01:41:48 PM
As this still seems to be an item of concern from the emails I am receiving, I am bumping this for possible further discussion here.

I am also going to bump the one over in the Maritime forum.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Murcielago on June 02, 2009, 07:40:27 AM
Has anyone heard anything new of Ernie? I went and looked through the dreams posted on his website. Mostly just scanned them. It seemed that there was quite alot of warning and calls to repentance for anyone who doesn't believe in him.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Wordkeeper on July 20, 2009, 09:16:36 PM
07/17/2009 - NOTICE FROM ERNIE: We know this will come as a shock, but we have come to believe that the dreams are not of God. Even though there was truth in them, there was also error. We believe that Candace may have been an evil angel. I also received personal dreams that were obviously not from God. We will be putting a notice on our website soon. Our future meetings have been cancelled. ... Thank you.

Satan knows his time is short and is working to deceive even the very elect. We are so sorry and pray that the Lord will guide us into all truth.

Love & prayers
Ernie & Becky

http://www.4hispeople.org/ernieknoll.htm
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Johann on July 21, 2009, 05:06:23 AM
It takes courage to make such an admission. Thank God for that!
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on July 22, 2009, 03:26:09 PM
As there's a lot more to it than that, I suggest you check out their web sites.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Johann on July 23, 2009, 08:47:02 PM
As there's a lot more to it than that, I suggest you check out their web sites.

It now appears rather complicated.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: reddogs on July 25, 2009, 04:59:12 PM
Ernie Knoll exposed is all I can say.......

This just posted on Ernie Knoll's website.

The 4 His People Ministry Board learned of some very disturbing information the week of July 15. This information has led us to believe that though the dreams appear to be of a supernatural source, we now believe that this source was of Satan.

Along with the meetings being cancelled and no future meetings authorized by the board, please know that Ernie and
Becky Knoll are suspended from any activity related to the 4 His People Ministry.

Please cease contributing funds to this ministry.

For those of you who read the testimony and/or received emails from someone going by the name of "Candace", we were able to determine through tracking email IP information, that Ernie Knoll is "Candace". When pressed, he admitted to this on July 21 at 2:43 pm in a phone call to two ministry board members. We have also determined that the "Great Commission Counsel" is also Ernie Knoll.

We urge everyone who has a "dream book" to throw it away, as we now understand that there are mind control elements in it.

We sincerely apologize to all who have read and believed these messages. We pray that those whose lives have been affected, including those of us on this ministry team and our families, will find closure. Thankfully, we have a loving Savior in Jesus Christ who is willing to forgive all who come to Him with sincere repentance.

While we have concerns about some of the arguments and statements made by those who openly opposed the dreams, we apologize to you specifically. We may at some time in the future ask that you consider the unscriptural positions taken, but it is clearly not appropriate at this time.

Please know that all of us involved in this ministry, only ever wanted to serve in the cause of Christ, to win souls for the kingdom.
It is our prayer that those who have returned to Jesus, as a result of these messages, will not cast Him aside. While we cannot trust in man's opinions, we can trust Jesus. Always look to Jesus for light and strength. May He find us ready, when He returns.

4 His People Ministry Board
http://www.4hispeople.com/
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Laodicea on August 26, 2009, 04:57:23 PM
I wanted to write a response some time ago.  But I had to go through formality of being accepted onto this site... Went on vacation....

Now I'd like to say that the enemy- Satan- would not compel the church to repentance as Ernie has.  Jesus taught us that a house divided against itself will not stand- but fall.  Satan is too smart and evil to attempt to get the remnant church to repent- that would defeat his purpose, which is to destroy the church.  Yes, there has been some confusion concerning the 4hispeople.com site statements....  However, if we would prayerfully study to show ourselves approved unto God the truth would always be revealed to us and shine through us.  We would not be deceived. Be encouraged in this.  Some of the dreams that Ernie has had have been supernaturally confirmed to me and others...in more ways than one.  Furthermore, they are scripturally sound.  We should be very careful how we judge matters.  The last days of God's judgement are already upon us and the judgement of the living has already begun.  The church is being judged first (Ezekiel 9) and then the rest of the world will be judged.  The 144,000 are now being sealed.  Let us all strive to be a part of this number!  Let's get on and remain in one accord fellow church members!  Let's then watch the salvation of our Lord!  It's time to rise up and march forward as the church militant.  We must finish the work that the Lord has begun through the patriarchs. 

Let's not miss out on being a part of the end time awakening and revival.  Laodicea must repent and realize its nakedness, wretchedness and poor state so that God can do a mighty work in this present day church.  It's time for Laodicea to arise and awake!
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Johann on August 27, 2009, 12:39:23 PM
"Some of the dreams" -- but not all? Partial truth? Is that how God works?
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: amazinggrace on September 01, 2009, 06:38:30 PM
I wanted to write a response some time ago.  But I had to go through formality of being accepted onto this site... Went on vacation....

Now I'd like to say that the enemy- Satan- would not compel the church to repentance as Ernie has.  Jesus taught us that a house divided against itself will not stand- but fall.  Satan is too smart and evil to attempt to get the remnant church to repent- that would defeat his purpose, which is to destroy the church.  Yes, there has been some confusion concerning the 4hispeople.com site statements....  However, if we would prayerfully study to show ourselves approved unto God the truth would always be revealed to us and shine through us.  We would not be deceived. Be encouraged in this.  Some of the dreams that Ernie has had have been supernaturally confirmed to me and others...in more ways than one.  Furthermore, they are scripturally sound.  We should be very careful how we judge matters.  The last days of God's judgement are already upon us and the judgement of the living has already begun.  The church is being judged first (Ezekiel 9) and then the rest of the world will be judged.  The 144,000 are now being sealed.  Let us all strive to be a part of this number!  Let's get on and remain in one accord fellow church members!  Let's then watch the salvation of our Lord!  It's time to rise up and march forward as the church militant.  We must finish the work that the Lord has begun through the patriarchs. 

Let's not miss out on being a part of the end time awakening and revival.  Laodicea must repent and realize its nakedness, wretchedness and poor state so that God can do a mighty work in this present day church.  It's time for Laodicea to arise and awake!

Where is the evidence that the judgment of the living has begun?  The 144,000 and the other living righteous won't be sealed until the Sunday law is passed.

"The image of the beast [Sunday law] will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided....  This is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed."  Maranatha, p. 164

I'm not too familiar with Ernie's "dreams," but one that I read had a scene in which God's people were being guillotined.  Seems like Ernie is reading "Left Behind" books or anti-government propaganda.

The death decree by the government will not be passed until after probation has closed, and then, none of God's people will be killed.  So at what time does Ernie's dream place the guillotine scene?  Before probation closes?   Would the government be beheading the saints before probation closes, and then, after probation closes, decide, "Duh, we need to pass a death decree."  Ridiculous.

And when the government does pass the death decree after probation closes, it will merely withdraw government protection from the righteous and allow the populace to attack/destroy the saints.  It will not involve the government in directly killing God's people.  "A decree will finally be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death." ( The Great Controversy, p. 615, 616.  See also p. 635)  The guillotine scare is bogus.


That in itself shows that Ernie's dreams are not of God as they contradict the Spirit of Prophecy.  People who believe Ernie's dreams must not be familiar with the Spirit of Prophecy which is why they are deceived.

Besides, he admits to lying about Candace and the Great Commission.  Why would anyone want to continue to believe an admitted liar?
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Johann on September 06, 2009, 11:29:52 AM
I share your concerns.


I wanted to write a response some time ago.  But I had to go through formality of being accepted onto this site... Went on vacation....

Now I'd like to say that the enemy- Satan- would not compel the church to repentance as Ernie has.  Jesus taught us that a house divided against itself will not stand- but fall.  Satan is too smart and evil to attempt to get the remnant church to repent- that would defeat his purpose, which is to destroy the church.  Yes, there has been some confusion concerning the 4hispeople.com site statements....  However, if we would prayerfully study to show ourselves approved unto God the truth would always be revealed to us and shine through us.  We would not be deceived. Be encouraged in this.  Some of the dreams that Ernie has had have been supernaturally confirmed to me and others...in more ways than one.  Furthermore, they are scripturally sound.  We should be very careful how we judge matters.  The last days of God's judgement are already upon us and the judgement of the living has already begun.  The church is being judged first (Ezekiel 9) and then the rest of the world will be judged.  The 144,000 are now being sealed.  Let us all strive to be a part of this number!  Let's get on and remain in one accord fellow church members!  Let's then watch the salvation of our Lord!  It's time to rise up and march forward as the church militant.  We must finish the work that the Lord has begun through the patriarchs. 

Let's not miss out on being a part of the end time awakening and revival.  Laodicea must repent and realize its nakedness, wretchedness and poor state so that God can do a mighty work in this present day church.  It's time for Laodicea to arise and awake!

Where is the evidence that the judgment of the living has begun?  The 144,000 and the other living righteous won't be sealed until the Sunday law is passed.

"The image of the beast [Sunday law] will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided....  This is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed."  Maranatha, p. 164

I'm not too familiar with Ernie's "dreams," but one that I read had a scene in which God's people were being guillotined.  Seems like Ernie is reading "Left Behind" books or anti-government propaganda.

The death decree by the government will not be passed until after probation has closed, and then, none of God's people will be killed.  So at what time does Ernie's dream place the guillotine scene?  Before probation closes?   Would the government be beheading the saints before probation closes, and then, after probation closes, decide, "Duh, we need to pass a death decree."  Ridiculous.

And when the government does pass the death decree after probation closes, it will merely withdraw government protection from the righteous and allow the populace to attack/destroy the saints.  It will not involve the government in directly killing God's people.  "A decree will finally be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death." ( The Great Controversy, p. 615, 616.  See also p. 635)  The guillotine scare is bogus.


That in itself shows that Ernie's dreams are not of God as they contradict the Spirit of Prophecy.  People who believe Ernie's dreams must not be familiar with the Spirit of Prophecy which is why they are deceived.

Besides, he admits to lying about Candace and the Great Commission.  Why would anyone want to continue to believe an admitted liar?
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: tinka on September 07, 2009, 07:25:25 AM
I wanted to write a response some time ago.  But I had to go through formality of being accepted onto this site... Went on vacation....

Now I'd like to say that the enemy- Satan- would not compel the church to repentance as Ernie has.  Jesus taught us that a house divided against itself will not stand- but fall.  Satan is too smart and evil to attempt to get the remnant church to repent- that would defeat his purpose, which is to destroy the church.  Yes, there has been some confusion concerning the 4hispeople.com site statements....  However, if we would prayerfully study to show ourselves approved unto God the truth would always be revealed to us and shine through us.  We would not be deceived. Be encouraged in this.  Some of the dreams that Ernie has had have been supernaturally confirmed to me and others...in more ways than one.  Furthermore, they are scripturally sound.  We should be very careful how we judge matters.  The last days of God's judgement are already upon us and the judgement of the living has already begun.  The church is being judged first (Ezekiel 9) and then the rest of the world will be judged.  The 144,000 are now being sealed.  Let us all strive to be a part of this number!  Let's get on and remain in one accord fellow church members!  Let's then watch the salvation of our Lord!  It's time to rise up and march forward as the church militant.  We must finish the work that the Lord has begun through the patriarchs. 

Let's not miss out on being a part of the end time awakening and revival.  Laodicea must repent and realize its nakedness, wretchedness and poor state so that God can do a mighty work in this present day church.  It's time for Laodicea to arise and awake!

 Hope I do not get these quotes all mixed up.

But relating to the 144,000.  It took me many, many many years and to read an outline of EGW books to finally find in the end how simple the understanading of 144,000 in the litteral and symbolic message you would or not get from the pulpit because we lacked understanding of it to cause discrepency. I am a person of facts and find. I do not feel other then the Holy Spirit that turned the light on for me as I was searching for truth and not my own theory.

I ran across two little words that played or kept jumping out to make a really big difference. The words EGW used back in her day with different people that she stated would be "with" the 144,000.  It came back more times then one that she did not say "they would be "OF" the 144,000."  If that was the case then it seemed it would be a subtraction of the 144,000 and the number would finally run out.

So then as it relates in Rev. of John as he foresaw down through the ages till the end he writes that there ( past tense using the word WERE )
(sealed messangers )  He gives the name of the 12 tribes he would send to (for last message to be given) as only he knew in his present time as in future he would not know all or give all the modern day places or tell where all tribes would be located. So being the future was determined by God's chosen way and method AND WHO on how all tribes would be reached He sealed the orginal 144,000 that would come to the last generations before his coming to give that message.

Now it took a lot of reading and places to finally believe that this might be the correct understanding FOR ME to believe in.  Therefore at the 3rd angels message given God knew to whom his chosen was and that is why EGW stated that it was not important to know who they would be as we "would soon know". So therefore, I felt it was not important either but it was important to know the understanding of the 144,000 meaning.  I felt the orginal 144,000 was a beginning litteral number. But was shown that it would be multiplied through (like Manassa) these chosen messangers as the sand of the sea. So therefore I believed the litteral number would multiply "with" the 144,000 down through the ages. For one reason is the special ressurection for all those that died in" their works" of the 3 angels message. EGW stated several would be with the 144,000 and never included saying that of herself but I am stating that I believe she would be also "with".

The 144,000 I do not believe is something of the future to start the litteral number. I can go into great detail but not important now unless someone can convince me other then what I read. The 144,000 started at the last message of the 3 angels message and like EGW and others that were already in place around the world and with all people that were shown the same things as EGW, God knows what He is doing, His plans, and prepared way ahead of anything we could do or come up with on "who" are the 144,000.  One thing for sure is He says he can doing nothing without Human Instruments.

It turned out years of study for me and all very simply put and to undersand when I finally finished and how dense humans can be. But one thing for sure to find truth you will go digging. I care, I want to be there to see the face of "Jesus" .  Wished I could write less compliated as my mind sees it in simplicity.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: dburt on September 12, 2009, 05:07:38 PM
Ernie recently communicated with my wife via email and told her that he had repented of lying about Candace, but now he says that some of the dreams were from God and that his wife Becky was wrong to post that the dreams were from Satan. So- it appears that he has recanted from his recent position of asking for forgiveness and admitting his wrong. Ernie has opened a new website, and is taking donations. From a practical standpoint, one would be led to believe that Ernie has some serious credibility and other "issues", most thinking people would discount any and all things he should say from this point on, and have to disregard anything he said or reported previously. God does not lead in the way Ernie has claimed to be led, God does not mix truth with error, God is not the author of confusion. And sad to say, it appears that Ernie is seriously confused!
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: BobRyan on February 26, 2010, 05:38:41 AM
Once Ernie admitted to making stuff up - a gave a timeline for (at a minimum) when he started to make things up - the whole thing melts down.

The one thing a prophet cannot do - is make stuff up in terms of what they claim is a message from God. Once they admit to doing that - it is all over.

in Christ,

Bob
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Johann on February 26, 2010, 03:22:29 PM
What lesson can we learn from this?
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: BobRyan on February 26, 2010, 07:55:04 PM
1. we had some really dumb responses to the ForHisPeople ministry - that would not be convincing to very many Bible students. Almost all of Ernie's detractors claimed he was legit in reporting the news - they just did not believe that the messages were coming from God. But in fact - he was just making them up.

2. The test of "doctrine" is not the only test of a prophet. The primary risk for anyone claiming to have a message from God is "trust". The question "can they be trusted" has to be answered. Obviously you cannot get inside someone's head and find out if they are really seeing a vision from God - but you can contact their friends and board members to see if the person is known as a prayer warrior - Bible student -- (ie the fruits of the Spirit).

I personnally don't like going down that road because it looks so much like an ad hominem attack on the person - while ignoring the message. But the person has to have good fruits as Matt 7 - and that means that those close to them have to be asked to give an honest appraisal of the Christian discipline that the one claiming to hear from God is engaged in.

Certainly Ernie had a lot of strict rules about his diet and a heavy travel schedule. But the real questions should have been about prayer and Bible study with his Board. The board members should have been asked and so also any of his close friends - to see if this was really a "value" for him.

That was not happening.

3. The third lesson is this one about the luke warm church. One of the balancing "justifying" tactics used by Ernie was to promote Joe Crew's books. Books with warnings in them that many people just ignore anyway. When someone comes around as a prophet - and they point to clear areas of reform that are obviously needed - it is easy to confuse the Holy Spirit really telling you about the real need to reform - with the messenger that happens to hold that out as a decoy.

If you are in need of reform - do it now. Don't wait for someone to come along claiming to be prophet - because you could easily be left in a fog confusing the real prompting of the Holy Spirit about real reform needed - with the not-so-real claims of a supposed prophet.

The other ditch - equally as deadly - is that you toss out the prophet and the reform - because neither of them "is soothing to the ear that is married to compromise". We saw a lot of that with those who rejected Ernie Knolls.

Both ditches were filling up fast.

in Christ,

Bob
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Laodicea on February 28, 2010, 05:00:25 PM
Was King David a prophet?  Did he ever deceive?  Did he cause the people to stumble, and even suffer, in numbering the people against God's will?  Did God forgive him?  Were all of his writings (see the book of Psalms) void because of his mistakes?  Hmmmm.  Makes one think.  Let's be wise, watch and pray.

-Laodicea
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: princessdi on February 28, 2010, 05:12:15 PM
I like the way you think!
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: BobRyan on February 28, 2010, 05:52:16 PM
David made mistakes - he sinned, he did all kinds of things wrong - and then repented.

The Bible does not say "if someone claims to have the gift of prophecy and then later at any point in time - they commit sin -- then that is proof they never had the gift of prophecy - God did not speak to them".

The "did they ever sin" test is not a Bible test of a prophet. But "by their fruits" you SHALL know them (Matt 7) is certainly one.

More specifically - the Bible says that IF someone claims to speak for God - but then later is proven to be lying - they are to be stoned.

I am not arguing for stoning - I am speaking to the seriousness of lying about what God has done - in the case of a prophet.

The problem with the gift of prophecy is that there is no way to get inside someone's head and see if God is really talking to them - or if they are just flat out lying. So without that available to  you - it is incumbent upon them to NOT lie about the VERY thing that you must "trust" them to be faithful in doing.

Though they may covet at times or Sabbath break at times or lose their temper at times - none of this disqualifies them from the gift of prophecy. But if they say "God has said" when in fact "God has NOT said" -- that is a "deal breaker" for all prophets - according to the Bible.

That is  not negotiable.

Such a one can be forgiven for indulging themselves in the role as a false prophet, welcome them with open arms should they repent. But be not deceived  -  God declares he will not then GIVE such a one the role of a prophet. In fact God is very severe in holding them accountable for being false prophets - in no case in scripture does God give false prophets the "ministry of a prophet".

Not even Peter (who is also recorded in scripture as having many flaws) did not do it.

in Christ,

Bob
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Laodicea on February 28, 2010, 06:45:21 PM
Ernie did make up the story about the woman.  There was subsequent confusion over the validity over the dreams.  Who posted the letter about some of the dreams being not of God.  It could have been anyone who was on the board or whoever had the controlling interest of the website, Becky, Ernie or whoever.  Ernie had a board and majority vote ruled concerning the goings on of the ministry.  This is why he has an independent website now....  But, I refuse to get caught up in the confusion and drama.  The posted that I read are of God- when compared to scripture and Ellen White's writings- it's resoundingly conclusive.  I knew this before this drama unfolded and I'm not going to abandon what I already knew due to someone's mistakes.  The devil is not going to go against his own agenda.  "A house divided against itself shall not stand"- it is written.  Heed the warning!  Probation is soon to close.  Let's keep our garments white!  Let's get on one accord. 

Praise God!  He is worthy of all glory.  Ernie gives glory to God and he accepts none, by the way.  Again, God is worthy and all praise is due Him.

-Laodicea

Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Laodicea on February 28, 2010, 08:49:18 PM
I wanted to write a response some time ago.  But I had to go through formality of being accepted onto this site... Went on vacation....

Now I'd like to say that the enemy- Satan- would not compel the church to repentance as Ernie has.  Jesus taught us that a house divided against itself will not stand- but fall.  Satan is too smart and evil to attempt to get the remnant church to repent- that would defeat his purpose, which is to destroy the church.  Yes, there has been some confusion concerning the 4hispeople.com site statements....  However, if we would prayerfully study to show ourselves approved unto God the truth would always be revealed to us and shine through us.  We would not be deceived. Be encouraged in this.  Some of the dreams that Ernie has had have been supernaturally confirmed to me and others...in more ways than one.  Furthermore, they are scripturally sound.  We should be very careful how we judge matters.  The last days of God's judgement are already upon us and the judgement of the living has already begun.  The church is being judged first (Ezekiel 9) and then the rest of the world will be judged.  The 144,000 are now being sealed.  Let us all strive to be a part of this number!  Let's get on and remain in one accord fellow church members!  Let's then watch the salvation of our Lord!  It's time to rise up and march forward as the church militant.  We must finish the work that the Lord has begun through the patriarchs. 

Let's not miss out on being a part of the end time awakening and revival.  Laodicea must repent and realize its nakedness, wretchedness and poor state so that God can do a mighty work in this present day church.  It's time for Laodicea to arise and awake!

Where is the evidence that the judgment of the living has begun?  The 144,000 and the other living righteous won't be sealed until the Sunday law is passed.

"The image of the beast [Sunday law] will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided....  This is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed."  Maranatha, p. 164

I'm not too familiar with Ernie's "dreams," but one that I read had a scene in which God's people were being guillotined.  Seems like Ernie is reading "Left Behind" books or anti-government propaganda.

The death decree by the government will not be passed until after probation has closed, and then, none of God's people will be killed.  So at what time does Ernie's dream place the guillotine scene?  Before probation closes?   Would the government be beheading the saints before probation closes, and then, after probation closes, decide, "Duh, we need to pass a death decree."  Ridiculous.

And when the government does pass the death decree after probation closes, it will merely withdraw government protection from the righteous and allow the populace to attack/destroy the saints.  It will not involve the government in directly killing God's people.  "A decree will finally be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death." ( The Great Controversy, p. 615, 616.  See also p. 635)  The guillotine scare is bogus.


That in itself shows that Ernie's dreams are not of God as they contradict the Spirit of Prophecy.  People who believe Ernie's dreams must not be familiar with the Spirit of Prophecy which is why they are deceived.

Besides, he admits to lying about Candace and the Great Commission.  Why would anyone want to continue to believe an admitted liar?

I wanted to write a response some time ago.  But I had to go through formality of being accepted onto this site... Went on vacation....

Now I'd like to say that the enemy- Satan- would not compel the church to repentance as Ernie has.  Jesus taught us that a house divided against itself will not stand- but fall.  Satan is too smart and evil to attempt to get the remnant church to repent- that would defeat his purpose, which is to destroy the church.  Yes, there has been some confusion concerning the 4hispeople.com site statements....  However, if we would prayerfully study to show ourselves approved unto God the truth would always be revealed to us and shine through us.  We would not be deceived. Be encouraged in this.  Some of the dreams that Ernie has had have been supernaturally confirmed to me and others...in more ways than one.  Furthermore, they are scripturally sound.  We should be very careful how we judge matters.  The last days of God's judgement are already upon us and the judgement of the living has already begun.  The church is being judged first (Ezekiel 9) and then the rest of the world will be judged.  The 144,000 are now being sealed.  Let us all strive to be a part of this number!  Let's get on and remain in one accord fellow church members!  Let's then watch the salvation of our Lord!  It's time to rise up and march forward as the church militant.  We must finish the work that the Lord has begun through the patriarchs. 

Let's not miss out on being a part of the end time awakening and revival.  Laodicea must repent and realize its nakedness, wretchedness and poor state so that God can do a mighty work in this present day church.  It's time for Laodicea to arise and awake!
Where is the evidence that the judgment of the living has begun?  The 144,000 and the other living righteous won't be sealed until the Sunday law is passed.
"The image of the beast [Sunday law] will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided....  This is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed."  Maranatha, p. 164
I'm not too familiar with Ernie's "dreams," but one that I read had a scene in which God's people were being guillotined.  Seems like Ernie is reading "Left Behind" books or anti-government propaganda.

The death decree by the government will not be passed until after probation has closed, and then, none of God's people will be killed.  So at what time does Ernie's dream place the guillotine scene?  Before probation closes?   Would the government be beheading the saints before probation closes, and then, after probation closes, decide, "Duh, we need to pass a death decree."  Ridiculous.

And when the government does pass the death decree after probation closes, it will merely withdraw government protection from the righteous and allow the populace to attack/destroy the saints.  It will not involve the government in directly killing God's people.  "A decree will finally be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death." ( The Great Controversy, p. 615, 616.  See also p. 635)  The guillotine scare is bogus
That in itself shows that Ernie's dreams are not of God as they contradict the Spirit of Prophecy.  People who believe Ernie's dreams must not be familiar with the Spirit of Prophecy which is why they are deceived.
Besides, he admits to lying about Candace and the Great Commission.  Why would anyone want to continue to believe an admitted liar?
The following are excerpts posted by AmazingGrace that I have taken time to make comments on:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>" Where is the evidence that the judgment of the living has begun?  “
”The image of the beast Sunday law will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided....  This is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed."Maranatha, p. 164 ‘ I'm not too familiar with Ernie's "dreams," but one that I read had a scene in which God's people were being guillotined.  Seems like Ernie is reading "Left Behind" books or anti-government propaganda.’  " A decree will FINALLY be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death."
“I'm not too familiar with Ernie's "dreams," but one that I read had a scene in which God's people were being guillotined.  Seems like Ernie is reading "Left Behind" books or anti-government propaganda.  The death decree by the government will not be passed until after probation has closed, and then, none of God's people will be killed.  So at what time does Ernie's dream place the guillotine scene?  Before probation closes?   Would the government be beheading the saints before probation closes, and then, after probation closes, decide, "Duh, we need to pass a death decree."  Ridiculous.”<<<<<<<<<<<<<<




Part of the above is an excerpt from a compilation of Ellen G Whites writing.  Maranatha is a devotional.  Let’s be careful to keep all we read in its proper context.   Pertaining to  “The people of God”  which are to be sealed, EGW was referring to the people of God excluding the 144,000.  If she had meant the 144,000, she would have stated so.  The 144,000 are to be sealed prior to this and do a special work to get the people of God ready to face the great test.  The 144,000 are to start THE LOUD CRY.  Once the great test comes, it will be too late to prepare if you haven’t been doing so already.  YOU WILL BE SWEPT AWAY BY THE GREAT TORRENT THAT IS SOON TO COME!
Of all the faithful Christians, only the 144,000 will survive through the close of probation and the pouring out of all 7 plagues.  I can show you this in EGW writings and the bible- I have studied and continue to study BOTH.  However, my preference is the BIBLE, as was EGW’s, for her writings are the “Lesser Light”.  All others will be laid to rest prior to the pouring out of all of the 7 plagues from various modes, one of which is martyrdom------Proof:  “And they cried with a loud voice saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not JUDGE (referring to the final judgment) and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?  And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a LITTLE SEASON----UNTIL---their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.” Rev 6:10-11  “…Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them.” Rev 14:13 After probation closes, no man may work, for the “day” will be spent and the night will be here, “wherein no man may work” John 9:4.   So Rev 14:13 refers to those who die prior to the close of probation.  In Revelation 13, the image to the beast is already made---“And (the lamblike beast)  deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.” Rev 13:14 So we can therefore conclude that people will die after the image is made to the beast- as the bible shows us.  The word of God explains itself- it doesn’t need our help.
Maranatha p.268:
“I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus' work
was done in the sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues.
These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous; they thought
that we had brought the judgments of God upon them, and that if they
could rid the earth of us, the plagues would then be stayed. A decree
went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night
for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob's trouble…”

”… Though a general decree has fixed the time when commandment keepers may
be put to death, their enemies will in some cases anticipate the decree,
and before the time specified, will endeavor to take their lives. But
none can pass the mighty guardians stationed about every faithful soul.
Some are assailed in their flight from the cities and villages; but the
swords raised against them break and fall powerless as a straw. Others
are defended by angels in the form of men of war.”

Note: The only saints who live through this are the 144,000, which EGW refers to as a LITERAL NUMBER- THIS THE BIBLE ALSO SUPPORTS.  The 144,000 will not taste of death.  So the evil people, including “lukewarm” SDA’s who will be given over to reprobate minds, who will seek their death will be confounded.  The other saints of God prior to the 7 plagues will taste of death- to reiterate- from causes including martyrdom- as proven by Rev 6 and 14 together.


Concerning the judgment of the living, if you don’t know what time it is, I feel sorry for you.

THE DAY IS FAR SPENT AND THE NIGHT COMETH.  SEEK GOD (DAILY) AND LIVE, FOR WHY SHOULD ONE DIE.

With Love,

Laodicea
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: tinka on March 01, 2010, 05:22:32 AM

[quote author=Laodicea link=topic=329.msg21095#msg21095 date=1251331043


Note: The only saints who live through this are the 144,000, which EGW refers to as a LITERAL NUMBER- THIS THE BIBLE ALSO SUPPORTS.  The 144,000 will not taste of death.  So the evil people, including “lukewarm” SDA’s who will be given over to reprobate minds, who will seek their death will be confounded.  The other saints of God prior to the 7 plagues will taste of death- to reiterate- from causes including martyrdom- as proven by Rev 6 and 14 together.

Laodicea

[/quote]

Laodicea,

On the above note would you please give me the exact quote in SP or Bible where it says the 144,000 will not taste death?
Thank You
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Laodicea on March 01, 2010, 06:22:50 PM

[quote author=Laodicea link=topic=329.msg21095#msg21095 date=1251331043


Note: The only saints who live through this are the 144,000, which EGW refers to as a LITERAL NUMBER- THIS THE BIBLE ALSO SUPPORTS.  The 144,000 will not taste of death.  So the evil people, including “lukewarm” SDA’s who will be given over to reprobate minds, who will seek their death will be confounded.  The other saints of God prior to the 7 plagues will taste of death- to reiterate- from causes including martyrdom- as proven by Rev 6 and 14 together.

Laodicea

Quote

Laodicea,

On the above note would you please give me the exact quote in SP or Bible where it says the 144,000 will not taste death?
Thank You


Hello Tinka,
 
The quote below is just one of the many evidences.  You must search out the scriptures to get greater light, as Ellen white did not write a lot about the 144,000.  God revealed only a portion of what is to be known to his faithful servant.  We must search the many interwoven scriptures to find greater light on prophecies.  We must ask God to show us.  He will if we have the right motives- through His Spirit.

“Soon we heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus' coming. The living saints, 144,000 in number, knew and understood the voice, while the wicked thought it was thunder and an earthquake. When God spoke the time, He poured upon us the Holy Ghost, and our faces began to light up and shine with the glory of God, as Moses' did when he came down from Mount Sinai.

“The 144,000 were all sealed and perfectly united. On their foreheads was written, God, New Jerusalem, and a glorious star containing Jesus' new name.”—“Early Writings of Mrs. E. G. White,” pp. 14, 15.


Read Maranatha as well- pages 267 to 270.  

"And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be KILLED. Rev13:15  

"And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders; and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were REDEEMED from the earth.  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.  These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.  These were REDEEMED from among men, being the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb.  And in their mouth was found NO GUILE; for they are without fault before the throne of God.  And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.  Saying with a loud voice, Fear God and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come; and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.... Rev 14:3-7  The 144,000 are actually still on the earth at this point and are the ones to initially proclaim the last warning to the world. (see Rev 18)  But, they are sealed and have been Redeemed as the first fruits….

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, a measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. Rev 6:6 This scripture refers to the first fruits of the grain harvest.  The wheat and barley were presented as a wave offering unto the Lord God Almighty- refer to the Books of Moses to find out about the wave offering.  The 144,000 are the first fruits unto Jehovah as stated in Rev 14.  The scriptures state- “Hurt not the oil and the wine- for the 144,000 at that point in time will have been anointed with God’s Spirit and have been washed in His blood.  The wicked will have not- they are represented by the tares, which are now growing up with the wheat/barley.  Once probation closes, those who have remained unrepentant will be reserved for the fire.  The tares are the unrepentant souls.  The harvest is the God-fearing saved.  The first fruits will not be hurt by the plagues.  They will remain and be caught up to meet Jesus in the air when He comes, as I Thessalonians 4:17 states……

…..With Love and Conviction,

Laodicea

Formatting changed by Johann
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: BobRyan on March 01, 2010, 07:17:39 PM

 The posted that I read are of God- when compared to scripture and Ellen White's writings- it's resoundingly conclusive.  I knew this before this drama unfolded and I'm not going to abandon what I already knew due to someone's mistakes.  The devil is not going to go against his own agenda.  "A house divided against itself shall not stand"- it is written.  Heed the warning!  Probation is soon to close.  Let's keep our garments white!  Let's get on one accord.

Certainly it is true that the Bible references, the Ellen White comments, the instruction found in Joe Crew's material - is all valuable instruction for these last days. We have no reason to turn our backs on the main focus of the material - which is being ready for the soon coming of Christ. A wake up call is certainly in order for a sleeping group of saints.

in Christ,

Bob

Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: BobRyan on March 01, 2010, 07:40:38 PM

On the above note would you please give me the exact quote in SP or Bible where it says the 144,000 will not taste death?
Thank You


Add this to the list -

Quote
Upon the crystal sea before the throne, that sea of glass as it were mingled with fire,--so resplendent is it with the glory of God,--are gathered the company that have "gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name." With the Lamb upon Mount Zion, "having the harps of God," they stand, the hundred and forty and four thousand that were redeemed from among men; and there is heard, as the sound of many waters, and as the sound of a great thunder, "the voice of harpers harping with their harps." And they sing "a new song" before the throne, a song which no man can learn save the hundred and forty and four thousand. It is the song of Moses and the Lamb--a song of deliverance. None but the hundred and forty-four thousand can learn that song; for it is the song of their experience--an experience such as no other company  have ever had. "These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth." These, having been translated from the earth, from among the living, are counted as "the first fruits  unto God and to the Lamb." Revelation 15:2, 3; 14:1-5.

"These are they which came out of great tribulation;" they have passed through the time of trouble such as never was  since there was a nation; they have endured the anguish of the time of Jacob's trouble; they have stood without an intercessor through the final outpouring  of God's judgments. But they have been delivered, for they have "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." "In their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault" before God. "Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them." They have seen the earth wasted with famine and pestilence, the sun having power to scorch men with great heat, and they themselves have endured suffering, hunger, and thirst. But "they shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes." Revelation 7:14-17. {GC 648.3}

Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: tinka on March 02, 2010, 06:21:27 AM
Laodicea and Bob Ryan,
Thank you both for your input. I have always understood that the 144,00 would be in a living state and translated from the earth but I never believed that  SOME WITH the 144,000 would not face death. That they would be in a living state at the coming as Biblical and SP states. But I also realized that in the beginning the 144,000would be a literal beginning number that was told of end times to John when the 3rd angels message was given. Those special messangers if passed away would be in a living state at BEFORE the coming that they may see it as Biblical states. The special ressurection for those in the 3angels message when EGW states then we would know who the 144,000 was. She states we would soon know. So therefore I thought it was important to just understand it and that "Blessed are those that their work did follow them". Then as the 144,000 messangers brought in the redeemed it them became symbolic as the redeemed were saved through multiplication of the messangers appointed and sealed by God in the past for the future as told to John. Wow, I am not good at explaining in words so well but hope you are getting the drift on how I have sort of put all that together to make it common sense FOR ME. But I am a person that keeps searching until all match in understanding. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Laodicea on March 02, 2010, 07:03:45 PM
Tinka,

Those whose "works will follow them" are not part of the 144,000.  They consist of workers distinct from the 144,000, who will die and be resurrected when Jesus comes.  To explain further, the 144,000 represents a literal number of people.   The number represents only the males over a certain age.  The number does not include women and children.  God changes not- notice that geneologies in the bible by and large include only males....  Although there will be women and children in the post-probation remnant, the 144,000 males are the ones that God counts....Just thought I'd add this.

I hope no one misunderstands me here.  I can clarify further at a later time if need be.

-Laodicea
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Johann on March 03, 2010, 04:45:35 AM
To explain further, the 144,000 represents a literal number of people.   - - -

-Laodicea

How do you know that? Are there no symbolic numbers in the Bible?
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: tinka on March 03, 2010, 07:24:45 AM
Laodicea,

But EGW states that Mrs. Hastings and others she mentioned would be "with" the 144,000 and those were women.  The word "with" to me is adding or multiplication. If she would have used the word "of" that would have been a literal subtraction and therefore take this to understand a literal number. The orginal number is God's litteral number of solution and he did the choosing for the info read in Early Writings.

In Early Writings under title The Sealing and on last page of no.38 this is describing in heaven with the Father and the Son just before the 4 angels were commanded to let loose. It is stopped by the Son that still some were not sealed.

That is because the Sabbath was not presented yet in 3 angels message. So how was that to happen. Well John wrote the answer. God sealed way back then (note the past tense word "were" sealed)  the solution. He would send 12,000 each to the 12 tribes (144,000). Of whom EGW says it is not important to know who because "we would soon know".

Then it states in Patriots and Prophets. That "all" (the plan of multiplication called the 144,00 of the original messengers that Rev. speaks of) the redeemed would sing together the "Song".  Therefore all the redeemed is not a literal number of those that went through "{a") great tribulation in a living state and those who faced death and some raised in the reward of a special Resurrection.

The great tribulation is many things and many different times even the martyers. One of the worst was Satans attacks on the 3 angels message going forth. The North and the South, Spiritualism, and attacks of the messengers themselves. Yes there will be a time of (Jacobs) great trouble that some will live through the 7 last plagues.

Then as you refer to the first fruits, I gather the first fruits (disciples and apostles) went to Heaven with the ascending of Jesus at the first dispensation. Therefore that accounts for the 24 in numbers that serve....and all the above description would fit your quotes above.

It seems to me if this is literal, I will not make it as it is a plan of reduction in line.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Laodicea on March 03, 2010, 10:44:42 PM

The following are excerpts posted by AmazingGrace that I have taken time to make comments on:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>" Where is the evidence that the judgment of the living has begun?  “
”The image of the beast Sunday law will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided....  This is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed."Maranatha, p. 164 ‘ I'm not too familiar with Ernie's "dreams," but one that I read had a scene in which God's people were being guillotined.  Seems like Ernie is reading "Left Behind" books or anti-government propaganda.’  " A decree will FINALLY be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death."
“I'm not too familiar with Ernie's "dreams," but one that I read had a scene in which God's people were being guillotined.  Seems like Ernie is reading "Left Behind" books or anti-government propaganda.  The death decree by the government will not be passed until after probation has closed, and then, none of God's people will be killed.  So at what time does Ernie's dream place the guillotine scene?  Before probation closes?   Would the government be beheading the saints before probation closes, and then, after probation closes, decide, "Duh, we need to pass a death decree."  Ridiculous.”<<<<<<<<<<<<<<




Part of the above is an excerpt from a compilation of Ellen G Whites writing.  Maranatha is a devotional.  Let’s be careful to keep all we read in its proper context.   Pertaining to  “The people of God”  which are to be sealed, EGW was referring to the people of God excluding the 144,000.  If she had meant the 144,000, she would have stated so.  The 144,000 are to be sealed prior to this and do a special work to get the people of God ready to face the great test.  The 144,000 are to start THE LOUD CRY.  Once the great test comes, it will be too late to prepare if you haven’t been doing so already.  YOU WILL BE SWEPT AWAY BY THE GREAT TORRENT THAT IS SOON TO COME!
Of all the faithful Christians, only the 144,000 will survive through the close of probation and the pouring out of all 7 plagues.  I can show you this in EGW writings and the bible- I have studied and continue to study BOTH.  However, my preference is the BIBLE, as was EGW’s, for her writings are the “Lesser Light”.  All others will be laid to rest prior to the pouring out of all of the 7 plagues from various modes, one of which is martyrdom------Proof:  “And they cried with a loud voice saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not JUDGE (referring to the final judgment) and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?  And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a LITTLE SEASON----UNTIL---their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.” Rev 6:10-11  “…Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them.” Rev 14:13 After probation closes, no man may work, for the “day” will be spent and the night will be here, “wherein no man may work” John 9:4.   So Rev 14:13 refers to those who die prior to the close of probation.  In Revelation 13, the image to the beast is already made---“And (the lamblike beast)  deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.” Rev 13:14 So we can therefore conclude that people will die after the image is made to the beast- as the bible shows us.  The word of God explains itself- it doesn’t need our help.
Maranatha p.268:
“I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus' work
was done in the sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues.
These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous; they thought
that we had brought the judgments of God upon them, and that if they
could rid the earth of us, the plagues would then be stayed. A decree
went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night
for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob's trouble…”

”… Though a general decree has fixed the time when commandment keepers may
be put to death, their enemies will in some cases anticipate the decree,
and before the time specified, will endeavor to take their lives. But
none can pass the mighty guardians stationed about every faithful soul.
Some are assailed in their flight from the cities and villages; but the
swords raised against them break and fall powerless as a straw. Others
are defended by angels in the form of men of war.”

Note: The only saints who live through this are the 144,000, which EGW refers to as a LITERAL NUMBER- THIS THE BIBLE ALSO SUPPORTS.  The 144,000 will not taste of death.  So the evil people, including “lukewarm” SDA’s who will be given over to reprobate minds, who will seek their death will be confounded.  The other saints of God prior to the 7 plagues will taste of death- to reiterate- from causes including martyrdom- as proven by Rev 6 and 14 together.


Concerning the judgment of the living, if you don’t know what time it is, I feel sorry for you.

THE DAY IS FAR SPENT AND THE NIGHT COMETH.  SEEK GOD (DAILY) AND LIVE, FOR WHY SHOULD ONE DIE.

With Love,

Laodicea

[/quote]

Tinka,

Read through the highlighted quote above carefully and then read the reiteration below.

"Although there will be women and children in the post-probation remnant, the 144,000 males are the ones that God counts." 

Question: Were there a literal 12 disciples whom Jesus hand-picked?  Did God make the world in literally 6 days?  Why must we continue to trivialize the bible?  Were there really only 8 people in the whole world who survived the worldwide flood?...  Are there literally 12000 males of each of 12 tribes, not counting the saved women and children, who will be alive during the 7 plagues and see Jesus come in the clouds?

The answers- yes, yes, unbelief, yes and yes

With Love,

Laodicea
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: tinka on March 04, 2010, 04:26:19 AM
Laodicea,

Just curious, are you possibly a Seventh Day Adventist Reformer?
I have read every book cover to cover in sequence. I have outlined all and then read and keep the outline presented in book at their finish.

How is it I understand that the Loud Cry started back in 1844? My understanding is that Loud Cry would "Swell louder and louder". and that would be done by Holy Spirit.

It is amazing how we can come up with different scenarios of things in sequence. Somethimes all it takes is the misunderstanding of one word or two missed to change a sequence or view. There is a time for literal number and a time for sybolic.

If all will be laid to rest except this literal number then why are we advised to flee to the mountains? We will all be dead anyway. I will take time to go over again your post again just for the reasoning out of sequences pertaining to use of scripture. I like to know where everyone is coming from.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: tinka on March 04, 2010, 07:13:31 AM
Laodecia,

This is your quote  "The 144,000 and the other living righteous won't be sealed until the Sunday law is passed."

Rev:7:4 "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel." You see John knew the application way back then for future "solution" after the 4 angels were ordered to stop. The messangers of 3angels were already chosen to bring in the redeemed. Page 37 of Early Writings "The 144,000 triumphed". Think about this-- as their works and Jesus's solution for the remaining era that people had forgotten the Sabbath the 144,000 triumphed as they brought in the mulitudes as the sand of the sea. On the sea of glass the greatest rewards is to see the reapers rejoice over what they had sowen. The sealing prevails until probation is closed.

Story of Redemption: page 421

 Nearest the throne are those who were once zealous in the cause of Satan, but who plucked as brands from the burning have followed their Saviour with deep, intense devotion.  Next are those who perfected Christian characters in the midst of falsehood and infidelity, those who honored the law of God when the Christian would declared if void, and the millions of all ages who were martyred for their faith.  And beyond is the "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues....before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands." p.422 and all sing the song of Redemption...now how can this count as a literal number? Referance of issue Gen. 48:16 .  "The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.  

 This was God's plan of works longstanding.  It is obvious that if you ever were a member of New York Yankees from the original ones, You would now be called a member in this day in time the same as the originals. There now would be more then the original number but still be called the New Youk Yankees! Right as the multitude over the years have collected as members!!  
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Johann on March 04, 2010, 01:13:51 PM
It seems to me that we need the Holy Spirit to guide our thinking and to clarify our words that we may understand each other.

It seems to me that Ellen White makes a statement that it is more important that we seek to be among the 144,000 than being able to define who they are. So what are we doing here?
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: tinka on March 04, 2010, 05:36:47 PM
Yes, I agree ...but the subject with wrong understanding about drove me out of the belief realizing that I could never be of that number on the sea of glass in that literal number, and caused me to be devastated. But before I left the church I felt I must see for my self of which took a lot of years of study only to finally realize that it was exactly as simple as God's History book to show how great another way was to pull in the redeemed by human instrument made possible by His sacrifice.

 When I realized this I was so grateful and then settled down to realize the 144,000 did not make one iota of a difference who it was except the purpose of it to bring in the last era of forgotten sabbath keepers that could be saved "with" the 144,000 chosen of God to be sealed with His last message at end times.-- many as the sand of the sea had the chance to enter instead of a bumper system. You have no idea what that did to me years ago. It was more then devastation! It was horror for me.  Why should I live- sort of thing.   So yes, I had to find out every smidge I could after discovering, with every word. Now you might see why I am so thankful that Jesus had a last message and Mrs. White complied. I had to read every word and artilce then realized she was for real and God did love us enough and did not forget we still needed more guidence( in this era of time). An SDA made me feel the way I discribed above.

 It turned out to be a simple understanding after that but never could ever understand the church keeping away from it and then be divided on it. Then I heard another pastor from another denomination that did not keep the sabbath and it was shocking to me to hear him preach exactly this scenario after what I felt the Holy Spirit help me find on my own . I do think it is important to understand it's signifiance or place in the Redemption of the Redeemed and the extent that God Loved His people so much that He sacrificed and did all He could and that is what the signifiance did for me.  Then my lack of self-control (laugh) works when I feel I have to protect this kind of love. It's worse then a mother hen (smile) so maybe I won't make it after all. But I really do want to and see Him.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Laodicea on March 04, 2010, 06:37:06 PM

The following are excerpts posted by AmazingGrace that I have taken time to make comments on:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>" Where is the evidence that the judgment of the living has begun?  “
”The image of the beast Sunday law will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided....  This is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed."Maranatha, p. 164 ‘ I'm not too familiar with Ernie's "dreams," but one that I read had a scene in which God's people were being guillotined.  Seems like Ernie is reading "Left Behind" books or anti-government propaganda.’  " A decree will FINALLY be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death."
“I'm not too familiar with Ernie's "dreams," but one that I read had a scene in which God's people were being guillotined.  Seems like Ernie is reading "Left Behind" books or anti-government propaganda.  The death decree by the government will not be passed until after probation has closed, and then, none of God's people will be killed.  So at what time does Ernie's dream place the guillotine scene?  Before probation closes?   Would the government be beheading the saints before probation closes, and then, after probation closes, decide, "Duh, we need to pass a death decree."  Ridiculous.”<<<<<<<<<<<<<<




Part of the above is an excerpt from a compilation of Ellen G Whites writing.  Maranatha is a devotional.  Let’s be careful to keep all we read in its proper context.   Pertaining to  “The people of God”  which are to be sealed, EGW was referring to the people of God excluding the 144,000.  If she had meant the 144,000, she would have stated so.  The 144,000 are to be sealed prior to this and do a special work to get the people of God ready to face the great test.  The 144,000 are to start THE LOUD CRY.  Once the great test comes, it will be too late to prepare if you haven’t been doing so already.  YOU WILL BE SWEPT AWAY BY THE GREAT TORRENT THAT IS SOON TO COME!
Of all the faithful Christians, only the 144,000 will survive through the close of probation and the pouring out of all 7 plagues.  I can show you this in EGW writings and the bible- I have studied and continue to study BOTH.  However, my preference is the BIBLE, as was EGW’s, for her writings are the “Lesser Light”.  All others will be laid to rest prior to the pouring out of all of the 7 plagues from various modes, one of which is martyrdom------Proof:  “And they cried with a loud voice saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not JUDGE (referring to the final judgment) and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?  And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a LITTLE SEASON----UNTIL---their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.” Rev 6:10-11  “…Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them.” Rev 14:13 After probation closes, no man may work, for the “day” will be spent and the night will be here, “wherein no man may work” John 9:4.   So Rev 14:13 refers to those who die prior to the close of probation.  In Revelation 13, the image to the beast is already made---“And (the lamblike beast)  deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.” Rev 13:14 So we can therefore conclude that people will die after the image is made to the beast- as the bible shows us.  The word of God explains itself- it doesn’t need our help.
Maranatha p.268:
“I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus' work
was done in the sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues.
These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous; they thought
that we had brought the judgments of God upon them, and that if they
could rid the earth of us, the plagues would then be stayed. A decree
went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night
for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob's trouble…”

”… Though a general decree has fixed the time when commandment keepers may
be put to death, their enemies will in some cases anticipate the decree,
and before the time specified, will endeavor to take their lives. But
none can pass the mighty guardians stationed about every faithful soul.
Some are assailed in their flight from the cities and villages; but the
swords raised against them break and fall powerless as a straw. Others
are defended by angels in the form of men of war.”

Note: The only saints who live through this are the 144,000, which EGW refers to as a LITERAL NUMBER- THIS THE BIBLE ALSO SUPPORTS.  The 144,000 will not taste of death.  So the evil people, including “lukewarm” SDA’s who will be given over to reprobate minds, who will seek their death will be confounded.  The other saints of God prior to the 7 plagues will taste of death- to reiterate- from causes including martyrdom- as proven by Rev 6 and 14 together.


Concerning the judgment of the living, if you don’t know what time it is, I feel sorry for you.

THE DAY IS FAR SPENT AND THE NIGHT COMETH.  SEEK GOD (DAILY) AND LIVE, FOR WHY SHOULD ONE DIE.

With Love,

Laodicea


Tinka,

Read through the highlighted quote above carefully and then read the reiteration below.

"Although there will be women and children in the post-probation remnant, the 144,000 males are the ones that God counts." 

Question: Were there a literal 12 disciples whom Jesus hand-picked?  Did God make the world in literally 6 days?  Why must we continue to trivialize the bible?  Were there really only 8 people in the whole world who survived the worldwide flood?...  Are there literally 12000 males of each of 12 tribes, not counting the saved women and children, who will be alive during the 7 plagues and see Jesus come in the clouds?

The answers- yes, yes, unbelief, yes and yes

With Love,

Laodicea
[/quote]
Yes, I agree ...but the subject with wrong understanding about drove me out of the belief realizing that I could never be of that number on the sea of glass in that literal number, and caused me to be devastated. But before I left the church I felt I must see for my self of which took a lot of years of study only to finally realize that it was exactly as simple as God's History book to show how great another way was to pull in the redeemed by human instrument made possible by His sacrifice.

 When I realized this I was so grateful and then settled down to realize the 144,000 did not make one iota of a difference who it was except the purpose of it to bring in the last era of forgotten sabbath keepers that could be saved "with" the 144,000 chosen of God to be sealed with His last message at end times.-- many as the sand of the sea had the chance to enter instead of a bumper system. You have no idea what that did to me years ago. It was more then devastation! It was horror for me.  Why should I live- sort of thing.   So yes, I had to find out every smidge I could after discovering, with every word. Now you might see why I am so thankful that Jesus had a last message and Mrs. White complied. I had to read every word and artilce then realized she was for real and God did love us enough and did not forget we still needed more guidence( in this era of time). An SDA made me feel the way I discribed above.

 It turned out to be a simple understanding after that but never could ever understand the church keeping away from it and then be divided on it. Then I heard another pastor from another denomination that did not keep the sabbath and it was shocking to me to hear him preach exactly this scenario after what I felt the Holy Spirit help me find on my own . I do think it is important to understand it's signifiance or place in the Redemption of the Redeemed and the extent that God Loved His people so much that He sacrificed and did all He could and that is what the signifiance did for me.  Then my lack of self-control (laugh) works when I feel I have to protect this kind of love. It's worse then a mother hen (smile) so maybe I won't make it after all. But I really do want to and see Him.

Hmmm, I am being misquoted, unfortunately.  Yes, Tinka, carefully go over my original quotes.  I DID NOT say that the 144,000 and the other saints will be sealed after the National Day of Rest (or whatever label you want to put on it) Law is passed.
You have mistaken the midnight cry for the Loud Cry.  See reference below.
Review and Herald, March 3, 1885, Advent Experience--No. 4
‘…When the midnight cry ended and the time passed, they felt that the last great test was reached. This was the universal feeling at the time. Their intense burden for souls had ceased. The Satanic spirit around them made the matter still more clear to their minds.
After the time passed, Mr. Miller in another letter addressed to Elder Himes says:
"We have done our work in warning sinners and in trying to awaken a formal church. God in His providence has shut the door. We can only stir one another up to be patient and to be diligent to make our calling and election sure. We are now living in the time specified in Malachi 8:18 (also Dan. 12:20, Rev. 22:10-12).
"In this passage we cannot help but see that a little while before Christ should come, there would be a separation be- tween the just and the unjust, between the righteous and the wicked, between those who love his appearing and those who hate it. And never since the days of the apostles has there been such a division line drawn as was drawn about the time of the seventh Jewish month. Since that time they say they have no confidence in us. We have need of patience after we have done the will of God, that we may receive the promise…."’

The “midnight cry” is what took place in Ellen White’s time, NOT THE LOUD CRY.  The midnight cry is connected to the 2300 day prophecy….The Loud Cry Takes place after the Latter Rain is poured out by Jehovah, which will happen shortly.  Refer to the EGW quote below.

Relationship of Health to a Spiritual Mission.  Chapter 25
Preparation for the latter rain and the loud cry.
‘ This application of health principles is profound and distinctively an Adventist insight. Ellen White wrote in 1867: “God’s people are not prepared for the loud cry of the third angel. They have a work to do for themselves which they should not leave for God to do for them. . . . Lustful appetite makes slaves of men and women, and beclouds their intellects and stupefies their moral sensibilities to such a degree that the sacred, elevated truths of God’s Word are not appreciated. . . . In order to be fitted for translation, the people of God must know themselves. . . . They should ever have the appetite in subjection to the moral and intellectual organs.”22’

Be encouraged.   The 144,000 are not loved more than any other of the faithful children of God.  The 144,000 are to do a special work. The 144,000 and all of the other saved souls that were ever born on God’s green earth constitute the great multitude!  So again, be encouraged.  I present these messages to inform and I will try my best to make the message clear.  If you thought that only the 144,000 would be saved of all the endtime living- I’m so sorry you thought that.  Because this is not so.  Many will be convinced to accept the truth right before the close of probation and be saved- in the “11th hour”.  They will be saved, but yet not go through the time of trouble.  Just as the gates of hell did not prevail against our savior, Jesus, the gates of hell (hades or the grave) will not prevail against the saints of God who will sleep through the time of trouble. 

Happy Studies!

-Laodicea
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: tinka on March 04, 2010, 07:52:47 PM

The following are excerpts posted by AmazingGrace that I have taken time to make comments on:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>" Where is the evidence that the judgment of the living has begun?  “
”The image of the beast Sunday law will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided....  This is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed."Maranatha, p. 164 ‘ I'm not too familiar with Ernie's "dreams," but one that I read had a scene in which God's people were being guillotined.  Seems like Ernie is reading "Left Behind" books or anti-government propaganda.’  " A decree will FINALLY be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death."
“I'm not too familiar with Ernie's "dreams," but one that I read had a scene in which God's people were being guillotined.  Seems like Ernie is reading "Left Behind" books or anti-government propaganda.  The death decree by the government will not be passed until after probation has closed, and then, none of God's people will be killed.  So at what time does Ernie's dream place the guillotine scene?  Before probation closes?   Would the government be beheading the saints before probation closes, and then, after probation closes, decide, "Duh, we need to pass a death decree."  Ridiculous.”<<<<<<<<<<<<<<




Part of the above is an excerpt from a compilation of Ellen G Whites writing.  Maranatha is a devotional.  Let’s be careful to keep all we read in its proper context.   Pertaining to  “The people of God”  which are to be sealed, EGW was referring to the people of God excluding the 144,000.  If she had meant the 144,000, she would have stated so.  The 144,000 are to be sealed prior to this and do a special work to get the people of God ready to face the great test.  The 144,000 are to start THE LOUD CRY. I understand the Midnight Cry and the Disappointment, but as a whole I believed The Loud Cry started at the beginning of the 3rd angels message and would swell with HOly Spirit to finality. I did not believe the Loud Cry did not happen yet)  Once the great test comes, (Mark of the Beast or Sabbath Test ?) it will be too late to prepare if you haven’t been doing so already. (How will the last hour ones be saved then?)  YOU WILL BE SWEPT AWAY BY THE GREAT TORRENT THAT IS SOON TO COME!
Of all the faithful Christians, only the 144,000 will survive through the close of probation and the pouring out of all 7 plagues.  I can show you this in EGW writings and the bible- I have studied and continue to study BOTH.  However, my preference is the BIBLE, as was EGW’s, for her writings are the “Lesser Light”.  All others will be laid to rest prior to the pouring out of all of the 7 plagues from various modes, one of which is martyrdom------Proof:  “And they cried with a loud voice saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not JUDGE (referring to the final judgment) and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?  (Now here is where I understood differently about this scenario. I believed these were referring to the era of persecution of the christians, Waldenceas and they were the ones that were continuing to cry out but still their brethern were going to be killed yet in THAT era of time.  They were the martyers that are discribed standing nearest the throne. )And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a LITTLE SEASON----UNTIL---their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.” Rev 6:10-11  “  Yes, that time or era was fulfilled and that is the way I took that to mean and no time did I think that meant for our time.…Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: (This could or can mean from all eras of earth's time.)Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them.” Rev 14:13 After probation closes, no man may work, for the “day” will be spent and the night will be here, “wherein no man may work” John 9:4. (How is it that I understood this to mean that once probation closes, there is no need for the christians work for souls. But in that statement is says NO MAN may work so all are dead but the 144,000?   So Rev 14:13 refers to those who die prior to the close of probation. (I never took that verse ever once to mean that scenario. I took it to mean that Blessed are those that their works do follow them after their death in all generations.)  In Revelation 13, the image to the beast is already made---“And (the lamblike beast)  deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.” Rev 13:14 So we can therefore conclude that people will die after the image is made to the beast- as the bible shows us.  The word of God explains itself- it doesn’t need our help. But I thought that is why we were told to flee to the mountains.Maranatha p.268:
“I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus' work
was done in the sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues.
These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous; the righteous or are you referring to the 144,000 her are the ones still living right?they thought
that we had brought the judgments of God upon them, and that if they
could rid the earth of us, the plagues would then be stayed. A decree
went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night
for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob's trouble…” This part I realize”… Though a general decree has fixed the time when commandment keepers may
be put to death, their enemies will in some cases anticipate the decree,
and before the time specified, will endeavor to take their lives. But
none can pass the mighty guardians stationed about every faithful soul.
Some are assailed in their flight from the cities and villages; but the
swords raised against them break and fall powerless as a straw. Others
are defended by angels in the form of men of war.”

Note: The only saints who live through this are the 144,000, which EGW refers to as a LITERAL NUMBER- THIS THE BIBLE ALSO SUPPORTS.  The 144,000 Here I recall the righteous  will not taste of death.  So the evil people, including “lukewarm” SDA’s who will be given over to reprobate minds, who will seek their death will be confounded.  The other saints of God prior to the 7 plagues will taste of death- to reiterate- from causes including martyrdom- as proven by Rev 6 and 14 together. This is the part I am not really so sure of since many will be hidden when fleeing to mountains and are hidden.
Concerning the judgment of the living, if you don’t know what time it is, I feel sorry for you.

THE DAY IS FAR SPENT AND THE NIGHT COMETH.  SEEK GOD (DAILY) AND LIVE, FOR WHY SHOULD ONE DIE.

With Love,

Laodicea


Tinka,

Read through the highlighted quote above carefully and then read the reiteration below.

"Although there will be women and children in the post-probation remnant, the 144,000 males are the ones that God counts."  I would definitely have to see something more pertaing to this as this is the first time ever I heard of just males being the 144,000. Otherwise then women do not need to quite eating meat to be translated without seeing death as advised. Just not sure about this (smile).
Question: Were there a literal 12 disciples whom Jesus hand-picked?  Did God make the world in literally 6 days?  Why must we continue to trivialize the bible?  Were there really only 8 people in the whole world who survived the worldwide flood?...  Are there literally 12000 males of each of 12 tribes, not counting the saved women and children, who will be alive during the 7 plagues and see Jesus come in the clouds?
So are you then stating here that there will be women and children along "wit" the 144,000 but not counted?The answers- yes, yes, unbelief, yes and yes

With Love,

Laodicea
Yes, I agree ...but the subject with wrong understanding about drove me out of the belief realizing that I could never be of that number on the sea of glass in that literal number, and caused me to be devastated. But before I left the church I felt I must see for my self of which took a lot of years of study only to finally realize that it was exactly as simple as God's History book to show how great another way was to pull in the redeemed by human instrument made possible by His sacrifice.

 When I realized this I was so grateful and then settled down to realize the 144,000 did not make one iota of a difference who it was except the purpose of it to bring in the last era of forgotten sabbath keepers that could be saved "with" the 144,000 chosen of God to be sealed with His last message at end times.-- many as the sand of the sea had the chance to enter instead of a bumper system. You have no idea what that did to me years ago. It was more then devastation! It was horror for me.  Why should I live- sort of thing.   So yes, I had to find out every smidge I could after discovering, with every word. Now you might see why I am so thankful that Jesus had a last message and Mrs. White complied. I had to read every word and artilce then realized she was for real and God did love us enough and did not forget we still needed more guidence( in this era of time). An SDA made me feel the way I discribed above.

 It turned out to be a simple understanding after that but never could ever understand the church keeping away from it and then be divided on it. Then I heard another pastor from another denomination that did not keep the sabbath and it was shocking to me to hear him preach exactly this scenario after what I felt the Holy Spirit help me find on my own . I do think it is important to understand it's signifiance or place in the Redemption of the Redeemed and the extent that God Loved His people so much that He sacrificed and did all He could and that is what the signifiance did for me.  Then my lack of self-control (laugh) works when I feel I have to protect this kind of love. It's worse then a mother hen (smile) so maybe I won't make it after all. But I really do want to and see Him.

Hmmm, I am being misquoted, unfortunately.  Yes, Tinka, carefully go over my original quotes.  I DID NOT say that the 144,000 and the other saints will be sealed after the National Day of Rest (or whatever label you want to put on it) Law is passed.
You have mistaken the midnight cry for the Loud Cry.  See reference below.
Review and Herald, March 3, 1885, Advent Experience--No. 4
‘…When the midnight cry ended and the time passed, they felt that the last great test was reached. This was the universal feeling at the time. Their intense burden for souls had ceased. The Satanic spirit around them made the matter still more clear to their minds.
After the time passed, Mr. Miller in another letter addressed to Elder Himes says:
"We have done our work in warning sinners and in trying to awaken a formal church. God in His providence has shut the door. We can only stir one another up to be patient and to be diligent to make our calling and election sure. We are now living in the time specified in Malachi 8:18 (also Dan. 12:20, Rev. 22:10-12).
"In this passage we cannot help but see that a little while before Christ should come, there would be a separation be- tween the just and the unjust, between the righteous and the wicked, between those who love his appearing and those who hate it. And never since the days of the apostles has there been such a division line drawn as was drawn about the time of the seventh Jewish month. Since that time they say they have no confidence in us. We have need of patience after we have done the will of God, that we may receive the promise…."’

The “midnight cry” is what took place in Ellen White’s time, NOT THE LOUD CRY.  The midnight cry is connected to the 2300 day prophecy….The Loud Cry Takes place after the Latter Rain is poured out by Jehovah, which will happen shortly.  Refer to the EGW quote below.

Relationship of Health to a Spiritual Mission.  Chapter 25
Preparation for the latter rain and the loud cry.
‘ This application of health principles is profound and distinctively an Adventist insight. Ellen White wrote in 1867: “God’s people are not prepared for the loud cry of the third angel. (Now here is where it calls the Loud Cry at the 3rd angels message as I read it)They have a work to do for themselves which they should not leave for God to do for them. . . . Lustful appetite makes slaves of men and women, and beclouds their intellects and stupefies their moral sensibilities to such a degree that the sacred, elevated truths of God’s Word are not appreciated. . . . In order to be fitted for translation, the people of God must know themselves. . . . They should ever have the appetite in subjection to the moral and intellectual organs.”22’

Be encouraged.   The 144,000 are not loved more than any other of the faithful children of God.  The 144,000 are to do a special work. The 144,000 and all of the other saved souls that were ever born on God’s green earth constitute the great multitude!  So again, be encouraged.  I present these messages to inform and I will try my best to make the message clear.  If you thought that only the 144,000 would be saved of all the endtime living- I’m so sorry you thought that.  Because this is not so.  Many will be convinced to accept the truth right before the close of probation and be saved- in the “11th hour”.  They will be saved, but yet not go through the time of trouble.  Just as the gates of hell did not prevail against our savior, Jesus, the gates of hell (hades or the grave) will not prevail against the saints of God who will sleep through the time of trouble.Where do I find this quote "sleep through the time of trouble"    I took this to mean all saints from generations of different tribulationsHappy Studies! I am not a good speaker but a good reader at least always got an A and feel quite amazed at the difference of understanding from different views. Did God let me believe a lie with all the years of study? He promised He would not do this if I was sincere and I do not know how to be more sincere as my time of years seems to be up. This is quite a head banger for me.Hope I got all in order of comments here and did not mess yours up
-Laodicea

[/quote]

I have also a very hard time doing the quotes in the right areas. I cannot tell your highlights of where you did that from here. But will try to comment within your posts.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Laodicea on March 05, 2010, 05:05:46 PM
Your answers are in the bible.  You can't just read Ellen Whites writings and get clear understanding on this.  God, by His Spirit, can show you where to find these answers.


Title: "The Latter Rain Produces The Loud Cry"

"At that time the latter rain, or refreshing from the presence of the Lord, will come, to give power to the loud voice of the third angel (Rev 18, not Rev 14), and prepare the saints to stand in the period when the seven last plagues shall be poured out."  
Ref- Last Day Events, page 186.

The Loud Cry comes from the angel that unites with the 3rd angel as seem in Rev 18.  
"Let the latter rain come into my vessel.  Let the light of the glorious angel which unites with the third angel shine upon me; give me a part in the work; let me sound the proclamation; let me be a colaborer with Jesus Christ...."  Last Day Events, pg 194

As pertaining to Rev 18, EW writes- "This scripture points FORWARD to a time when the announcement of the fall of Babylon, as made by the second angel of Revelation 14:8, is to be repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the various organizations that constitute Babylon, since that message was first given, in the summer of 1844...These announcements, uniting with the third angel's message, constitute the final warning to be given to the inhabitants of the world..." Last Day Events pg 202

"I saw that this message will close with power and strength far exceeding the midnight cry."  Last Day Events, pg 202

"To souls that are earnestly seeking for LIGHT and that accept with gladness every ray of divine illumination from His Holy Word, to such alone light WILL BE given.  It is through these souls that God WILL REVEAL that light  and power which WILL LIGHTEN the whole earth with His glory."       Last Day Events, p 205

THERE IS TO BE IN THE [SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST] CHURCHES A WONDERFUL MANIFESTATION OF THE POWER OF GOD, BUT IT WILL NOT MOVE UPON THOSE WHO HAVE NOT HUMBLED THEMSELVES BEFORE THE LORD, AND OPENED THE DOOR OF THE HEART BY CONFESSION AND REPENTANCE.  IN THE MANIFESTATION OF THAT POWER WHICH LIGHTENS THE EARTH WITH THE GLORY OF GOD, THEY WILL SEE ONLY SOMETHING WHICH IN THEIR BLINDNESS THEY THINK DANGEROUS, SOMETHING WHICH WILL AROUSE THEIR FEARS, AND THEY WILL BRACE THEMSELVES TO RESIST IT.       BECAUSE THE LORD DOES NOT WORK ACCORDING TO THEIR IDEAS AND EXPECTATIONS THEY WILL OPPOSE THE WORK."  LDE PG 210


More To Come.

-Laodicea
Title: Ernie Knoll
Post by: Master Spud on April 02, 2010, 07:36:03 PM
Ernie Knoll has quite a following, especially when there is messages concering Ed Reid, Angel Rodriguez, Steve Wohlberg, Eugene Prewit, David Gates, Vance Ferrell, Linda Kirk, Laura Lee Jones.










edited to remove website address - those interested can find it elsewhere.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Master Spud on April 02, 2010, 07:36:38 PM
Ernie Knoll has had visions that are relative to the end times of this earth.












edited to remove website address - those interested can find it elsewhere.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Bob Pickle on April 02, 2010, 07:45:15 PM
Ernie Knoll has had visions that are relative to the end times of this earth.

Didn't Ernie admit that he lied?







edited to remove website address - those interested can find it elsewhere.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: tinka on April 03, 2010, 04:08:51 AM
With lackness of starting at the beginning of this thread and understanding where all this was coming from and just plain jumping in at a one time look, then commenting in lackness my attention was now drawn in to see what all this was about. Who is Ernie Knoll? I did not even realize the title of the thread because I noticed first 144,000 and it has been a personal interest to study about it. I have studied it on a personal basis and never with someone. Now I go back to the beginning as my eye catches this "Vision" thing. So here is a new web site. Now my interest picks up and clicks on the vision. I read it very slow, very slow as I weigh each and every word as it is interjected to the character of person who is writing it. I have first impressions immediately. They seem to be not quite like I was used to reading with EGW. I had to weigh a lot as his vision was quite descriptive. I really had to set back and think about this "new messenger".  Then I had to recall many many years of reading just in case and then I realized how "compelling this was".  Without going into bringing up all scripture and EGW and going through the whole thing I came up with just my own "no important to anyone else theory" for my own thoughts on this.

First of all I realize what the scripture says about the dreams and visions to the people. So my thoughton this is it would happen on personal basis for each individuals ability to be open to the Holy Spirit more and more as time getting close.  I for one can vouch for this happening but it did not mean for me to go out and broadcast my own personal happenings and try to collect a following. Maybe to testify that yes, it does happen. Mine happened when very young and then again in different situation for a different problem later in years. So as I feel I had a true dream with no doubt as the only way my thoughts were known was by the Holy Spirit to answer that thought was like it was done for Neb. No one under the sun could have known my thoughts but God. I cannot even begin to explain it to someone else. Also I do not believe just because I did have this dream that it presents a salvation for sure for me. It is between me and Jesus. I can tell what the dream was but cannot explain the beauty of it. I do know that when I was aroused in the middle of the night that I was breathless and could not get my breath when awake. I was gasping. I hold the look until my time is gone.

So I am in belief this happens but not in the manner that this is coming across. I drew my conclusion even before I ventured into the negative parts of other posts and then to the part where EK lied. So that was sort of a confirming part on "my own conclusions".

Next, I have studied the "Trinity" a lot and have outlined all EGW referring to the workings of each and how each works in their connection of man in his own timing. Again will not go into detail of my own studies but the dream does not fit within the realms of the works of Jesus appearing and his separations to each individual around the table sort of thing. That was off the wall (in my own opinion) and the entrance was too. Think about it. It just seems to me that Jesus will not portray His entry of this sort in so many different ways when he has already discrib ed His coming to this earth. The Grandstanding in the dream of entrance by trumpets and angels gave me not a good feeling immediately and instant dislike. He is not going to personally touch this earth by His presence and angels in this manner now and then take away from the Original Glory and His timing presented for just a few individuals present.   In my dream I was being lifted up into a realm of darkness in total space and the stars underneath and around me and height with out being arrayed in terror of my phobia of heights. I was totally alone in this until.... It made no difference at the time. I was trying to get to Him as hard as I could. I also realize I very well could be totally wrong and just giving my opinion on the EK versions.

 Being a follower to any of this or to anyone is a highly suspicious venture when the credentials of a true "messenger is not available for proof and flawed then on again. I feel safer to be on a one to one basis with the Holy Spirit and stay tuned if and when he chooses to ever let me have another "dream". Could not this be most confusing to wonder which messenger to follow and then so time consuming to compare all their messages and see if they match! Who has the time now for this in this late date? Seems this could be deadly. Again, just my own thoughts and personal experience of study and happenings. But for sure EK has a strong "seance" of "apostasy" in the church and that I also feel is happening but soon all will be unmasked.
Title: Ernie Knoll
Post by: Murcielago on April 03, 2010, 09:20:20 AM
Ernie Knoll has quite a following, especially when there is messages concering Ed Reid, Angel Rodriguez, Steve Wohlberg, Eugene Prewit, David Gates, Vance Ferrell, Linda Kirk, Laura Lee Jones.
Thanks Spud. I visited the sight. I found it amusing and sad. He seems to attempt to give himself credibility by using EGW, but has a completely self-centered mission that is based entirely around attacking and hurting, drawing people away from the church, and using his herald to badmouth people who question him, as opposed to spreading the good news of Jesus and his healing love. A group that is based on isolation, fear of others, and fear of doing wrong according to the group leader has no foundation in Christianity as practiced and taught by Christ himself.



edited to remove website address - those interested can find it elsewhere.
Title: Ernie Knoll
Post by: Murcielago on April 03, 2010, 09:31:28 AM
So you think he has quite a following? The following of a false prophet because of "messages" about people is just sad. Someone whose "prophesies" lead people away from Jesus in order to focus them on people needs to rethink what they come up with as "prophecy."
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Murcielago on April 03, 2010, 03:39:19 PM
Ernie Knoll has had visions that are relative to the end times of this earth.

At least that is what he claims. Yet, he doesn't seem to "have visions" or take actions that fulfill the Gospel commission, they all seem to be based on either lifting him up or tearing down people who question him. You are either with him in his car where he is in the front seat, or you are going into perdition.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: sonshineonme on April 07, 2010, 03:52:14 PM
Ernie Knoll has had visions that are relative to the end times of this earth.

At least that is what he claims. Yet, he doesn't seem to "have visions" or take actions that fulfill the Gospel commission, they all seem to be based on either lifting him up or tearing down people who question him. You are either with him in his car where he is in the front seat, or you are going into perdition.

ok, I'm editing my post here d/t more findings of confusing info on this situation (to me) and feel I need to re-read a few things before making my post again. Sorry!!  :-[
Title: reply
Post by: HelenJames on July 30, 2010, 10:16:56 PM
I think this topic was discussed loads of time before at this forum
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Enoch on January 27, 2012, 05:50:13 PM
Tinka,

Those whose "works will follow them" are not part of the 144,000.  They consist of workers distinct from the 144,000, who will die and be resurrected when Jesus comes.  To explain further, the 144,000 represents a literal number of people.   The number represents only the males over a certain age.  The number does not include women and children.  God changes not- notice that geneologies in the bible by and large include only males....  Although there will be women and children in the post-probation remnant, the 144,000 males are the ones that God counts....Just thought I'd add this.

I hope no one misunderstands me here.  I can clarify further at a later time if need be.

-Laodicea

You are picking and choosing what you find literal versus symbolic as it suits your needs.  Or do you believe that the 144,000 will all be Israelites with 12,000 coming from each tribe?
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: tinka on January 29, 2012, 07:40:37 AM
Hi Enoch, thanks for your post but want to let you know that I am not a person that studies anything to suit my needs. I am a person that investigates everything until I can match all that is right and even then open to all views because correct view consist of truth for salvation.

Actually in the book"Story of Redemption" spells it out pretty extensive. and you also have to realize John is in vision very futuristic and still calls all the nations tribes. and-- read it closely as Rev 14 uses the word 'WERE" A PAST TENSE WORD. THE PLAN WAS NOW IN PLACE FOR LATTER DAY TIME AND COMPLETE. 

Then I heard Ken Cox version and still did not agree but do realize all the different characteristics play a part but not in this scenario.

The part that I feel that most evangelists leave out and do not place in right position is this, unless you can make it more understandable in all matching with all verses--.

 There is scripture that says that all who have followed the lamb or carried the 3rd angels message will be in a special Resurrection way before the coming. do you recall this? but-- almost all preaching on the 144,000  claim "that in conclusion it can not be-and the 144,00 will not face death and therefore conclude 144,000 is still futuristic" - for the whole symbolic number".  I take it the mistake is made when preaching is like I have always heard-- that the 144,000 will NEVER face death! Now please tell me where that states that!!. 

My reading tells me point blank "they will be in a LIVING STATE. Are we concluding our own theory here Of "never facing death" or will the 144,000 all be in a "living state" from all generations that presented the 3rd angels message (that "followed the lamb whithever they went"??) Then that is the reason I conclude from Story of Redemption that when the 4winds were about to blow and Jesus claimed my blood, my blood because the 3rd angels message was not given yet--therefore 144,000 messangers explained in Rev 14 sent to 12 different tribes of which we have no idea who or what but must realize that plan foresaw by John was a system or multiplication of first literal number to be multiplied into the redeemed. Story of Redemption explains that the Son went into counsel with the Father and this is Now the Plan for 3rd angels message.  Also The sowers and the reapers study. Then the study of the rewards and on and on till a golden thread is circled and all comes together. 

Then there is the statement that EGW says it is not important to know who the 144,000 is because 'WE WILL SOON KNOW".  Yes it fits here because the "Righteous will know as the original 144,000 will walk in a "living state" before the coming in the "special Resurrection" concluded in scripture. They carried the last message stating the last statement for the Redemption and reinstatement of the whole Commandments of God and Blessed are those that keep the commandments of God that they may enter in. So Now ask your self why scripture has different groups that are redeemed?


Doesn't it seem a little odd that there is going to be or referred to as all the Just, all the Righteous, and then the Holy all in one verse. (Aren't these all saved?  Yes! but why show different words supposedly meaning the same thing??) Whats the difference?? Volume 5 tells it all. The Just are the ones like Miller and all in previous generation that did not have the 3rd angels message and lived up to their knowledge the best they knew. The unjust are in the worse scenario as they went to church and knew all their own ways. The really wicked will just be ended in this life and the Holy are those that carried the message with never leaving the side of God and brought in the Redeemed and used as Gods MESSENGERS- that He Chose and not we our selves. It was Gods plan for last day church to be reinstated to the fullest. and the Holy will have their reward explained very thoroughly.

 I can go on with all reasoning that all fits with the writings of EGW when many many comments she makes with who will be "with" the 144,000. Look up the story of Mrs. Hastings and many others. She never ever states they would be "IN" THE 144,000 BUT "WITH" THE 144,000 CAUSE THEN THAT WOULD BE SUBTRACTION AND THE NUMBER WOULD BECOME LITTERAL INSTEAD OF GODS PLAN FOR HIS ORGINAL NUMBER OF MESSENGERS TO ALL TRIBES BE NOW IN SYMBOLISM BECAUSE OF MULTIPLICATION AND THE REDEEMED BROUGHT IN BY THE "MESSANGERS" THAT GOD PREPARED BACK IN JOHN'S VISION.  According to "Story of Redemption" The son pleaded for our blood in these last days to know the "perfect" and all the law of God as it was brought in 3rd Angels last message. and so now you can see my reason for a total belief in our "inspired writer."  What a blessing again we have!  It all has to connect for me to believe so show me where this is not connected. I got this from outlining and reading every book and the whole scenario connecting very simply and giving quite stability to my wondering mind of wanting the real truth.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: tinka on February 03, 2012, 06:11:08 AM
forgot to mention also that finally in the end "some WITH" 144,000 MULTIPLIED BY THE MESSENGERS of God's plan of Redemption for last day --will never face death. Through out all generations God has had a people that followed.....
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: Murcielago on April 07, 2012, 03:03:36 PM
Looks like Ernie the prophet has 62 visions/dreams now. He's still plugging along.
Title: Re: Visions of Ernie Knoll
Post by: NJK Project on June 26, 2012, 10:00:18 AM
The following, growing, Biblically analytical commentary on the ministry and revelations of Ernie Knoll may be helpful in this discussion:

http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2012/05/testing-spirits-1-cor-1210.html#ernieknoll

God Bless!