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 on: February 20, 2021, 05:49:56 AM 
Started by reddogs - Last post by reddogs
Here is Ellen White on this question..
Ellen G. White Estate
A collection of Ellen G. White statements relating to the 144,000.
(See The Great Controversy, pp. 648,649 for basic statement)

A Non-Essential Question

"Christ says that there will be those in the church who will present fables and suppositions, when God has given grand, elevating, ennobling truth, which should ever be kept in the treasure-house of the mind. When men pick up this theory and that theory, when they are curious to know something it is not necessary for them to know, God is not leading them. It is not His plan that His people shall present something which they have to suppose, which is not taught in the Word. It is not His will that they shall get into controversy over questions which will not help them spiritually, such as who is to compose the hundred and forty-four thousand. Those who are the elect of God will in a short time know without question.

"My brethren and sisters, appreciate and study the truths God has given for you and your children. Spend not your time in seeking to know that which will be no spiritual help. 'What shall I do to inherit eternal life?' This is the all-important question, and it has been clearly answered. 'What is written in the law? How readest thou?" -Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 174, 175.

Strive to Be Among the 144,000

"Let us strive with all the power that God has given us to be among the hundred and forty-four thousand. And let us do all that we can to help others to gain heaven." -Review and Herald; March 9, 1905.

Mrs. White and the 144,000

"The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. The grass of the place was living green, and the birds there warbled a sweet song. The inhabitants of the place were of all sizes; they were noble, majestic, and lovely. They bore the express image of Jesus, and their countenances beamed with holy joy, expressive of the freedom and happiness of the place. . . . I begged of my attending angel to let me remain in that place. I could not bear the thought of coming back to this dark world again. Then the angel said, 'You must go back, and if you are faithful, you, with the 144,000,* shall have the privilege of visiting all the worlds and viewing the handiwork of God."-Early Writings, pp. 39, 40.

Mrs. Hastings to Be With the 144,000

"I saw that she [Mrs. Hastings, who had just died] was sealed and would come up at the voice of God and stand upon the earth, and would be with the 144,000. I saw we need not mourn for her; she would rest in the time of trouble."-Letter 10, 1850 (2SM 263).

Silence is Eloquence

[The following letter from C. C. Crisler, leading secretary in Mrs. White's office, addressed to Elder E. E. Andross, president of the Pacific Union Conference, was called forth by a request from him to Sister White for any light she might have bearing on the teachings of Dr. B. E. Fullmer of Los Angeles, that the 144,000 will be made up of Americans only, none from other lands.]

"Elmshaven, Sanitarium, California, December 8, 1914. Dear Brother Andross:  During the few minutes remaining of the noon hour before close of mails, after receiving your special delivery letter of inquiry, I sent you a hurried reply to your communication, promising further word by wire. Tonight I am sending [you] the following telegraphic letter:

"'Mrs. White instructs me to inform you she has no light further than that the presentation of uncertainties as certainties, and the urging of mysteries as revealed truths, is perilous and leads to disappointment. She suggests building on Holy Scriptures, the true foundation, rather than on personal conjecture.-C. C. Crisler.'

"When reading the letter to Sister White, and listening to her remarks in response, I had with me as a witness Elder D. E. Robinson.

"'I have no light on the subject,' she said, upon hearing the letter. 'It is a very delicate time in which we are living - a time when we must individually cling to the Lord with all the powers of our being.' She said further:

"Those who urge theories regarding matters that are not revealed, are placing themselves where they are in peril of meeting with disappointments. "Hide yourself in God; hide your mysteries in God"- these words have been repeated during the night season, over and over again. From the first, I have been instructed that the Lord Jesus can give counsel that will not bring disappointment.

"'Please tell my brethren that I have nothing presented before me regarding the circumstances concerning which they write, and I can set before them only that which has been presented to me.

"'There are those who attempt to deal with uncertainties as certainties; and when they reach this position, they are where it is possible for the enemy to use them.

"'In the past, light has been given me repeatedly that when a crisis arises, we are to take the counsel of God, and trace interestedly every item that presents the truth in its verity.

"'The greatest help will come when we see the influence of the teachings of the Holy Scriptures. Their influence is to lead us to stand on an exalted basis, where we will build our faith and the faith of others, not on this one's say-so, and that one's say-so, and another one's say-so, but on the real foundation, the Word of the living God.'

"I have tried to write out from my notes the words spoken by Sister White after listening to your letter and to portions of the letter written by me, also to my hastily written reply to you. By no word or sign did Sister White attempt to say which party is right and which party is wrong. In no wise did she make any comment on my letter you, and, so far as we could understand, in no wise did she attempt to interpret or explain that which she has written in former years regarding the 144,000. But, rising above mere detail, she outlined the principles set forth above.

"I have nothing to add to that which I wrote at noon. Yes, there is one comment Sister White did make when I was reading to her my letter. She expressed pleasure over the fact that I had included in my letter to you the words, 'On the matter of the exact meaning of the 144,000 Sister White has repeatedly instructed us that "silence is eloquence."'

"She also commented favorably upon hearing the words with which I closed, 'So far as I now know, no one knows the full truth of the matter, nor will we know until we are on the other side of Jordan.'

"I feel confident, Elder Andross, that the brethren in southern California will find blessing in reviewing the teachings of Scripture concerning the 144,000, and bringing to bear upon these teachings whatever light there may be in the published writings of Sister White. And as prayerful consideration is given the matter in all its bearings, I believe that God will make the truth sufficiently clear to make possible the avoidance of needless and unprofitable controversy over questions not vital to the salvation of precious souls.

"With kindest regards, and praying that God may give breadth of sympathy as well as clarity of vision to those called upon to handle this perplexing problem that has arisen, I am as ever, Yours truly, C. C. Crisler."

Ellen G. White Estate December 21, 1964 Revised September, 1990
*Note: Observe that the promise was given to Mrs. White that if she was faithful, she with the 144,000 would have certain privileges.

 on: April 06, 2020, 07:56:51 AM 
Started by Snoopy - Last post by Bob Pickle
That what it sure seemed. Wasn't he the one behind 3abntalk?

 on: April 03, 2020, 10:29:00 PM 
Started by Snoopy - Last post by Snoopy

No, no idea.  My recollection is that he was somewhat of a bully, so I don't find this news surprising.

 on: April 02, 2020, 06:36:23 PM 
Started by Snoopy - Last post by Bob Pickle
Welcome, Snoopy.

That's too bad. Yes, I think that was his name. Any idea how he's doing now?

 on: April 02, 2020, 04:48:27 PM 
Started by Snoopy - Last post by Snoopy

Could this be our very own Steffan??  See the 17th entry under "Nursing".

 on: March 06, 2020, 08:14:12 AM 
Started by reddogs - Last post by reddogs
From the Encyclopaedia Britannica...
"Apocrypha, (from Greek apokryptein, “to hide away”), in biblical literature, works outside an accepted canon of scripture. The history of the term’s usage indicates that it referred to a body of esoteric writings that were at first prized, later tolerated, and finally excluded. In its broadest sense apocrypha has come to mean any writings of dubious authority."

Many false doctrines came into the church and are supported by the writings of the Gnostics and by the Apocrypha (The Apocrypha are the books which some try to claim are canonical and which are included in some Bibles. They are based on mysticism and supposedly contain the secret doctrines (hidden things, which are opened to the enlightened or illuminated ones.) The Apocrypha is a collection of books with mysticism and fables mixed into stories, not books of faith. Not a bit of it is inspired, or even claims to be. If fact, the Jews never considered these stories to be divinely inspired. On the contrary, they denied their authority. At the time of Christ we have the testimony of Josephus that they were only 22 books divinely inspired by God. These books are the same as our thirty-nine in the Old Testament. The books of the Apocrypha were not among these. Josephus explicitly rejected the Apocrypha and listed the Hebrew Canon to be 22 books. (The Old Testament Canon in the Bible contains 39 books while the Hebrew canon has 22 or 24.  These are the exact same books as the Protestants have in their Bibles, but they are just arranged differently and some of the books are combined into one.  For example, Kings is one book.  There is not 1st Kings and 2nd Kings.  Also, all of the 12 minor prophets (Hosea through Malachi) are one book in the Hebrew Canon.) Jerome, a Biblical scholar who was able to read the Hebrew Canon and was translator of the Latin Vulgate, rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture. The leaders in Rome forced him to include it in his translation, and later they began a campaign to banish Jerome.

Regarding the Apocrypha, The Council of Trent decreed:

Whoever shall not receive as sacred and canonical all these books and every part of them, as they are commonly read in the Catholic Church, and are contained in the old Vulgate Latin edition, or shall knowingly and deliberately despise the aforesaid traditions, let him be accursed. - Council of Trent fourth session.

These writings were never considered part of the Canon, as they clearly contradict the Scriptures as can be seen in the following few examples:

Bewitching Art:

Tobias 6:4-8 ... Open the fish, and take the heart and liver and the gall .....if a devil or an evil spirit trouble any, we must make a smoke thereof before the man or the woman, and the party shall no more be vexed. As for the gall, it is good to anoint a man that hath witness in his eyes, and he shall be healed.

The Biblical rebuke to this statement is found in Mark 16:17 and Acts 16:18:

And signs will follow to those believing these things: in My name they will cast out demons. Mark 16:17

... But being distressed, and turning to the demonic spirit, Paul said, I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her! And it came out in that hour. Acts 16:18

Salvation by Works:

Tobias 12:9 For alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.

Biblical rebuke: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers. 1 Peter 1:18-19

Prayer for Dead:

2 Maccabees 12:43-46, ... For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead ....Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.

Biblical rebuke: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

The Apocrypha was never accepted by the Reformation and the fact is that those translations that lean heavily on Catholic documents are highly problematic. The King James is universally accepted and unless you know Greek is the most trusted translation.

 on: February 12, 2020, 01:15:24 AM 
Started by JPT - Last post by Bob Pickle
Hi JPT. Interesting thoughts.

1) The original Greek text did not contain both capitals and lowercase letters. What became lowercase letters started being used in books from the mid-800's onward.

2) The wound of 1798 wasn't healed in 1929, since the papacy hasn't yet regained its lost supremacy. What she regained was a little bit of sovereign territory, and that is very, very important, since today there is no higher authority on earth above the pope. He doesn't have to obey the laws of any other king or legislature, because he has his own country again. But that's healing a "wound" most recently inflicted in 1870 rather than 1798.

3) Gabriel told John in Rev. 17 that 5 kings were fallen in John's day. Thus, there is no possible way that John Paul II could be the 6th king. If you doubt this, then explain Rev. 11 as to when the 2 witnesses "shall prophesy." Why is future tense used in Rev. 11 to refer to that, if Gabriel and Jesus were not talking to John in the time context of his own day?

4) I think there has been another pope that retired who was not one of several popes, if that's what you mean by "contested."

 on: January 18, 2020, 10:31:32 AM 
Started by JPT - Last post by JPT
I was pondering the importance of Revelation 17, and how Mrs White said that chapter is about the "destruction of all the churches who devote themselves to idolatrous service to the Papacy" and why this message seems to be completely neglected by every single SDA pastor, and it dawned on me, that since the Bible is the oldest surviving document in earth's history, then Revelation 17:5, the prophecy of the Papacy becoming sealed with the title "MOTHER OF HARLOTS" is the first use of all CAPS in human history. How important would those words then have to be if God inspired John to write them larger than all the rest of Revelation?

John is trying to convey how important that event is to human history. The first Protestant church, the Lutherans, making concessions to the Papacy was of such import to God that He had John put that message in all CAPS to get our attention, yet I have yet to hear even ONE Seventh-Day Adventist Pastor mention this. That event was held in New York City on the anniversary of the start of the Protestant Reformation, Oct 31, 1999. It occurred in the time of the sixth Papal king after the healing of the deadly wound, John Paul II, exactly as Revelation 17:10 predicted. JPII was the one who "is" alive when the Papacy was sealed with the title "MOTHER OF HARLOTS" the day she lured the Lutherans to give up their part of the reformation. The Lutheran church was sealed with the title "DAUGHTER".

The seventh king, Benedict XVI retired; the first uncontested pope in history to do so, so the seventh pope in the concession "must remain a little while" after his reign, also precisely as prophesied.

Now the eighth Papal king since they regained their throne within the city of seven hills (Rev 17:9) is the first Jesuit to hold that office. The Jesuits were expelled from Rome after the head wound, when the pope went out of the city of seven hills, across the Tiber river to the Vatican Swamp, and they were also restored in the time of the sixth king John Paul II, but since the pope today IS a Jesuit they have regained "the beast that was" status in less than a generation after they were restored.

The Jesuits have a motto, to be 'Peridne ac Cadaver', meaning 'like a corpse'. In Matthew 24 Jesus was asked what the sign of the end would be and He said "where the CORPSE is, there the eagle will gather". This pope is the first to speak from US Congress, so the eagles have gathered.

 on: December 31, 2019, 09:46:47 AM 
Started by Bob Pickle - Last post by Bob Pickle
Schedule L of shows that in 2009, 3ABN paid Tommy Shelton DBA Sacred Sounds.

3ABN's recently filed Form 990 for 2018 can be found on as well as the same form for 2017, 2014, 2013, 2011, 2010, 2008, and 2006.

Form 990's Schedule L for 2018 shows that a relative of the president received $17,730 as Sacred Sounds.

Form 990's Schedule L for 2017 shows that a relative of the president received $10,597 as Sacred Sounds.

Since Tommy was to be released from prison in March 2017, it looks like he again is able to do work for 3ABN, unless he's sold or given his company to a different relative.

Interestingly, the 2018 990 identifies Greg Morikone as president, though it was only announced that he was becoming president this year. Which year did he become president? 2018 or 2019? Yet Danny retains the position of CEO in the 2018 990, which still puts him in the top officer's spot.

The 2018 Form 990 also reports Danny's total revenue as $674,558. $216,218 of that is his salary from 3ABN, of which $120,000 of that is reported as being a bonus or incentive. The other $458,340 is a payment to DLS Publishing for CD's and DVD's.

 on: December 27, 2019, 08:02:56 PM 
Started by Daryl Fawcett - Last post by childoftheking

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