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 on: January 28, 2019, 04:26:33 AM 
Started by reddogs - Last post by reddogs
Here is Ministry magazine on the issue:
"The Word became flesh

The Bible says, "The Word [Christ] was made flesh" (John 1:14). What does the Greek word for "flesh" mean? Does it tell us whether Christ's human nature was sinful or sinless? Sarx appears 151 times in the New Testament. 4 Arndt and Gingrich's A Greek-English Lexicon gives it eight meanings: (1) the material covering a body [1 Cor. 15:39]; (2) the body itself as a substance [chap. 6:16]; (3) "a man of flesh and blood" [John 1:14]; (4) "human or mortal nature, earthly descent" [Rom. 4:1]; (5) "corporeality, physical limitation(s), life here on earth" [Col. 1:24]; (6) "the external or outward side of life" [2 Cor. 11:18]; (7) "the willing instrument of sin" [Rom. 7:18]; and (8) the source of sexuality (John 1:13]. Only one of these (number 7) has to do with sin. Therefore sarx does not necessarily mean ''sinful''5

In Greek, the usual word for "sin" is hamartia 6 and not sarx. Schweitzer's theological dictionary notes that sarx may designate an earthly sphere (see 1 Cor. 1:27), not necessarily "sinful and hostile to God, but simply . . . limited and provisional." 7 It also says sarx may mean an object of trust (see Rom. 2:28). Here "what is sinful is not the sarx, but confidence in it." 8 Schweitzer concludes, "Where sarx is understood in a full theological sense, as in Galatians 5:24, it denotes the being of man which is determined, not by his physical substance, but by his relation to God." 9

Does God becoming flesh merely mean He received a human body? Christ said of His incarnation, " 'Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me' " (Heb. 10:5, N.I.V.). In agreement Paul wrote, "He appeared in a body" (1 Tim. 3:16, N.I.V.). The Greek word for "body" is soma, yet the word "body" (N.I.V.) in 1 Timothy 3:16 is not soma but sarx. It merely means "enfleshment," not "sinful."

How, then, do we understand these words: God sent His "Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and. . . condemned sin in the flesh" (Rom. 8:3)? First, consider what Paul could have said. He might have written, (1) God sent His Son in sinful flesh or (2) in the likeness of flesh. The first would mean His flesh was sinful, and the second would say that He only appeared to be in the flesh but was really some extraterrestrial being (cf. 1 John 4:1-3, a text misunderstood by some). 10

Paul said neither. He focused on Christ coming in the likeness of sinful flesh. The key word is "likeness." Two Greek words are translated "like" in English: isos, meaning "same," as in Acts 11:17, where "God gave them the like [same, isos] gift," and homoioma, used in Romans 8:3, meaning "similar" (because human), but not "same" (because not sinful). Scripture is consistent on this point. Thus Philippians 2:7 says of Jesus that He "was made in the likeness [homoioma] of men." 11 Hebrews 2:17 says, "He had to be made like (homoioo) his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest" (N.I.V.).

Do these Greek words and these passages suggest that Jesus was only similar to other humans in having a sin-affected physical human body, but not the same as other humans, for He alone was sinless in His spiritual relationship with God? Ellen White thought so.12 The Biblical evidence we have looked at so far supports such a conclusion."

 on: January 28, 2019, 04:06:17 AM 
Started by reddogs - Last post by reddogs
And we see in scripture:

Romans 1:3 King James Version (KJV)

"3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;"

Hebrews 2:16 King James Version (KJV)

"16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham."

and yet without sin:

Hebrews 4:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

and we can partake if we just look to Christ:

Hebrews 9:28

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 on: January 28, 2019, 03:40:11 AM 
Started by reddogs - Last post by reddogs
Here is a good explanation on this issue:
"When Jesus would uplift men to become members of the heavenly family, He humbled Himself to become a member of the earthly family, and by partaking of our nature He became the Son of man, the Son of Adam, and a Brother to every son and daughter of our fallen race."--Ms 58, 1896, p. 4.  {17MR 25.3}
"The two expressions human and divine were, in Christ, closely and inseparably one, and yet they had a distinct individuality."  {ST, May 10, 1899 par. 11}

"The nature of God, whose law had been transgressed, and the nature of Adam, the transgressor, meet in Jesus--the Son of God and the Son of man..."  {17MR 338.1}   

Why the question of Christ’s Nature is vital to us.                                                                                   

 Papal Rome teaches that Jesus did NOT take our fallen nature but possessed a human nature different to ours. She claims that possessing a fallen nature is itself a sin and therefore teaches that Christ could not possess it. Rome teaches the doctrine of the “Immaculate conception of Mary” - that she was miraculously given a sinless nature, a nature unlike ours, so that Jesus inherited a sinless “human” nature from her.

 Today many Protestants effectively teach the same thing. Like Catholics they claim that merely possessing a fallen nature is sin. The only real difference between Roman Catholic theology and so-called Protestant theology is that the Protestant view claims that instead of God miraculously giving Mary an unfallen human nature, God gave Jesus an immaculate unfallen human nature, or some unique hybrid nature that we do not possess.  Many modern day Seventh Day Adventists in contrast to our forefathers have been promoting similar sentiments.

Had Christ lived his earthly life in any nature other than our fallen nature then He would have failed to condemn sin in our fallen nature and would have failed to demonstrate what is possible in our fallen nature. Christ lived a life of sinlessness in our fallen human nature and thereby condemned sin in the flesh, in our flesh. Christ proved that our nature is no excuse for sinning and that obedience to God’s law is possible in our fallen nature thus exposing Satan’s lie and charge against God : “Satan, the fallen angel, had declared that no man could keep the law of God after the disobedience of Adam. He claimed the whole race under his control.”  {3SM 136.1} 

The only way that Christ could demonstrate how, we in our sinful nature, might live sinless lives is by himself living a sinless life in our sinful nature.

“He [Christ] came with such a heredity to share our sorrows and temptations, and to give us the EXAMPLE OF A SINLESS LIFE.”  E.G. White, Desire of Ages, p49.

“He sent His Son to this world to bear the penalty of sin, and to SHOW MAN HOW TO LIVE A SINLESS LIFE.” E.G. White, Reflecting Christ, p37.

“He came to this world and lived a sinless life, that in His power His people might also live LIVES OF SINLESSNESS.” E.G. White, Review and Herald , April 1, 1902

“He placed us on vantage ground, where we could live pure, SINLESS LIVES.” E.G. White, Signs of the Times, June 17, 1903.

“Every one who by faith obeys God’s commandments, will reach the condition of SINLESSNESS in which Adam lived before his transgression.” E.G. White, Signs of the Times , July 23, 1902.

 on: January 26, 2019, 04:31:04 AM 
Started by reddogs - Last post by reddogs
Many Christians are embracing Evolution and they don't even know it as its being given to them in a soft subtle way, that many don't understand where it leads. Its called theistic evolution and its just another way to get around Gods truth of Creation, and substituted it with mans ideas and theories. Here is a good explanation:

"Believing that God used evolution to create annuls numerous Bible teachings...

As some Christian scholars and leaders are increasingly advocating theistic evolution to explain creation, two scholars.. say Adventists cannot accept theistic evolution unless they annul many of their Bible-based fundamental beliefs. Theistic evolution, the belief that God used processes of evolution to create, implies at least believing “an account of origins at odds with the biblical record of history,” said Geoscience Research Institute scientist Timothy Standish. It also implies, he added, introducing the presence of death before sin, or at least defining death in different ways before sin and after sin.

Thus, “Seventh-day Adventists cannot embrace theistic evolution without exhibiting extraordinary duplicity and naiveté,” Standish said.

Southern Adventist University professor Greg A. King seconded the notion. “Because of the unresolvable contradictions between theistic evolution and Scripture … and because of the profound way in which theistic evolution would alter or modify key doctrines of the Bible, it seems clear that there is no middle ground between theistic evolution and biblical creation.”

The questions may be asked, why do many confessed Christians not see a conflict between the work of a Creator God and evolution? Why are they embracing evolution without a second thought? And why can Adventists not accept it?

..First, believing in theistic evolution affects our view of Scripture, King said. It undermines the authority of Scripture itself, which tells us a different story of origins than is portrayed by evolution. It also affects the doctrine of God; according to the Bible, He created by the power of His word. “The God of theistic evolution is a diminished divinity,” King said.

King also explained how theistic evolution affects the doctrine of salvation. “Why do humans need to be saved, if they are simply following God’s plan for how to get to higher forms of life?” he asked. And “from what do we need to be saved” in the first place?

In theistic evolution, said King, human beings are also diminished. They fall short of being God’s crown of creation and become mere beings emerging at the end of a long, slow process of development. “The biblical doctrine of man is severely altered in such a scenario,” he said.

Sabbath is also affected, he pointed out, because in theistic evolution there is no creation week. Sabbath stops being a memorial of creation and becomes a human invention. And theistic evolution affects marriage. As the marriage covenant loses God’s imprimatur, King believes “theistic evolution helps pave the road for some … unbiblical permutations of marriage.”

 on: December 29, 2018, 06:46:26 PM 
Started by reddogs - Last post by Bob Pickle
Go ahead and give it a try.

 on: December 29, 2018, 11:17:59 AM 
Started by reddogs - Last post by childoftheking

 on: December 28, 2018, 03:39:04 PM 
Started by reddogs - Last post by reddogs
This part "Formal Doctrinal Discussions

For formal discussion of pre-approved topics by approved persons."

 on: December 28, 2018, 08:06:30 AM 
Started by reddogs - Last post by childoftheking
What section? Since you just posted your question here I think its ok to post here using whatever process you just used. Is there something I am not understanding?

 on: December 28, 2018, 04:02:11 AM 
Started by reddogs - Last post by reddogs
How do we get permissions to post in this section, what is the process?

 on: December 08, 2018, 06:52:48 PM 
Started by Snoopy - Last post by Bob Pickle
Thank you for sharing this sad news, Snoopy. I hadn't heard of his passing away.

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