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Author Topic: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues  (Read 117750 times)

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GrandmaNettie

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2008, 12:44:16 PM »

Still waiting for the conclusion of this story...but it seems that a basic principle is coming to light, or I should say the ignoring of a principle.

If Danny Shelton has had control of the SDA church located on 3ABN premises to the extent that a pastor he disagreed with could be fired by him...I don't know... maybe it reminds me of something like blurring the famous separation between church and state of our country.
Artiste,  could you please clarify what you are saying in the paragraph of your post that I have bolded.  I have read it over several times and you seem to be inferring that Danny Shelton was able to fire a pastor of the SDA Church located on the 3abn premises.  It is my understanding that Pastor Fiscalini was an employee of 3abn in both the pastoral department and as European Liason.  His only position, other than member, was as an elder of the SDA Church there on 3abn grounds.  He was fired from his position at 3abn, so how does that blur the line of separation between church and state? 

Furthermore, if he felt wrongfully terminated, did he bring a wrongful termination suit against Danny Shelton/3abn?


Ozzie, how things should be done and how things are done is different in many individual churches in our denomination.  Many churches have in-fighting over issues.  Whole churches are divided over some.

Also, we don't know the whole story of either Pastor or Mrs. Fiscalini.  We don't know if they were malcontents or wonderful, upright Christian folks.  We don't know if they had personal agendas in mind or even control issues.  Some may see choosing to make an issue over the position as elder a worthy battle, no matter the consequences.  Jean Fiscalini obviously was willing to take the risk.  Now, it seems, he was not content with the outcome.  Others might feel there are better battles to pick when standing up for truth. 

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inga

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2008, 01:15:31 PM »

Jean Fiscalini obviously was willing to take the risk.  Now, it seems, he was not content with the outcome.
Grandma, on what evidence do you declare that Jean Fiscalini "was not content with the outcome?" And just how do you mean that?

Should Christians only stand up for something if they are assured that the outcome will be comfortable for them?

Do you suppose it possible for a pastor to be so committed to doing the right thing in such an important issue as electing officers to lead the church in a manner that honors God that they are willing to risk their employment?

As an analogy, do you really expect someone who risks his employment in order to keep the Sabbath holy to be "content with the outcome" in the usual manner if he loses his job?

It is one thing to be "content to trust God with the outcome" -- which it seems Jean Fiscaline did -- and it's quite another to be happy with the outcome. I would guess that Pastor Fiscalini would have been much more "content" and happy if Danny and the church had chosen to submit themselves to God. After all, a pastor's goal should be to lead those within his sphere of influence to submit themselves to God.

Should a pastor be content with the outcome of individuals refusing to submit themselves to God and continuing on in their self-serving ways?

Is that the kind of pastor you personally prefer?

Personally, I am gratified when I see pastors who will not be bought or sold and who will stand for the right though the heavens fall. I can trust them to follow God's leading wherever that may be.

So what kind of pastor do you prefer?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 01:57:35 PM by inga »
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inga

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2008, 02:13:30 PM »

some of the events leading up to the alleged wrongful termination of Pastor Jean Fiscalini. It is particularly important since it illustrates why the Thompsonville Seventh-day Adventist Church has had so much difficulty disciplining Danny Shelton for his unbiblical divorce, lies, and financial irregularities.

Why?  Because the Thompsonville SDA Church felt okay about having Danny Shelton serve as more of an Honorary Elder rather than a hands on one?
The focus is on why Pastor Fiscalini got fired, and the writer's opinion appears to be that his opposition of Danny's nomination as elder was part of the reason.

This is consistent with other stories of people being fired for crossing Danny. (And, by the way, Sister has a lot of credibility in my book.

Whether or not Pastor Fiscalini's opposition to Danny as elder was justified is another question. (By the evidence presented, I tend to think it was.) The way the story is told, at least Pastor Fiscalini felt compelled to oppose the nomination as a matter of conscience.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit to have 3ABN reps come on here to "prove" that Pastor Fiscaline was justly fired -- just like Linda.
Quote
Eight years ago  I faced an employer and told him I disagreed with his unreasonable behavior and I got fired.  I expected I would and was glad not to be working for such a mean guy.  Is that an illustration of anything other than my boss had the right to fire someone who didn't care for his behavior?

The situation is hardly analagous. 3ABN professes to be a ministry. As such it is incumbent upon the administrators to conduct the affairs of the ministry in a manner that puts God's agendo foremost, not their own likes and dislikes.

It seems to me that Sister's story is illustrative of much of what's wrong at 3ABN -- that Dan Shelton's personal agenda is a much higher priority than the service of God or the welfare of God's children.

If the situation you describe is parallel, then 3ABN is merely another business, and they should stop pretending to be doing God's work and asking for donor dollars.
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Sister

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2008, 06:46:38 PM »



Also, we don't know the whole story of either Pastor or Mrs. Fiscalini.  We don't know if they were malcontents or wonderful, upright Christian folks.  We don't know if they had personal agendas in mind or even control issues.  Some may see choosing to make an issue over the position as elder a worthy battle, no matter the consequences.  Jean Fiscalini obviously was willing to take the risk.  Now, it seems, he was not content with the outcome.  Others might feel there are better battles to pick when standing up for truth. 



GrandmaNettie, you have brought up a valid point. Let me clarify the situation, although I have already made reference to the general opinion concerning the character of Pastor Fiscalini. During the time they were at 3ABN Pastor Fiscalini through both his work at 3ABN and his involvement as an active elder in the Thompsonville church was known as a man of integrity. Neither he nor his wife had reputations of being either malcontents, having a personal agenda or control issues. Pastor Fiscalini won the trust and respect of his fellow employees and church members through consistant Christian behavior.

Personally, I find that it is not always we who choose the battles within which we engage, but the circumstances of our lives places us in situations where we are given the opportunity to stand steadfast upon Biblical principle. Christians who "walk the talk, not just talk the talk" realize their only option is to act on the side of conscience, to do otherwise be sin against our Lord. Being present at the time the Fiscalini's were at 3ABN and being acquainted with them, I would have no doubt that Pastor Fiscalini acted upon conscience in regard to Danny Shelton. Perhaps as the situation continues to unfold in upcoming segments of "Nobody Owns the Church", more questions will be answered.

Those who have followed "An Unauthorized History of 3ABN", through it's installments at BSDA, realized that each section directly pertains to the issue of character. The character of Danny Shelton is revealed through his interactions with family members, church members, employees of 3ABN and the surrounding community. Through life experience and how each of us choose to react to the situations we encounter, character is molded. Like gold refined though fire the Lord gives us many opportunities to face the impurities in our characters and to reshape it through the choices we make. Depending upon those choices we prepare ourselves either for eternity with the Lord or the extinguishing fire of the Second death. GrandmaNettie, in the stands we make for conscience and principle every battle is a worthy battle, because it is the battle for souls...

Sister
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Chrissie

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2008, 07:52:12 PM »

Quote
author=GrandmaNettie link=topic=14.msg120#msg120 date=1201121056]
GrandmaNettie, you have brought up a valid point. Let me clarify the situation, although I have already made reference to the general opinion concerning the character of Pastor Fiscalini. During the time they were at 3ABN Pastor Fiscalini through both his work at 3ABN and his involvement as an active elder in the Thompsonville church was known as a man of integrity. Neither he nor his wife had reputations of being either malcontents, having a personal agenda or control issues. Pastor Fiscalini won the trust and respect of his fellow employees and church members through consistant Christian behavior.

Personally, I find that it is not always we who choose the battles within which we engage, but the circumstances of our lives places us in situations where we are given the opportunity to stand steadfast upon Biblical principle. Christians who "walk the talk, not just talk the talk" realize their only option is to act on the side of conscience, to do otherwise be sin against our Lord. Being present at the time the Fiscalini's were at 3ABN and being acquainted with them, I would have no doubt that Pastor Fiscalini acted upon conscience in regard to Danny Shelton. Perhaps as the situation continues to unfold in upcoming segments of "Nobody Owns the Church", more questions will be answered.

Those who have followed "An Unauthorized History of 3ABN", through it's installments at BSDA, realized that each section directly pertains to the issue of character. The character of Danny Shelton is revealed through his interactions with family members, church members, employees of 3ABN and the surrounding community. Through life experience and how each of us choose to react to the situations we encounter, character is molded. Like gold refined though fire the Lord gives us many opportunities to face the impurities in our characters and to reshape it through the choices we make. Depending upon those choices we prepare ourselves either for eternity with the Lord or the extinguishing fire of the Second death. GrandmaNettie, in the stands we make for conscience and principle every battle is a worthy battle, because it is the battle for souls...
Sister


I am reminded of a quote from Colporteur Ministry (1953) / Section 11. Chapter 7 - Wholly Surrendered to God.
The World's Greatest Need.-- The greatest want of the world is the want of men, -- men who will not be bought or sold; men who in their inmost souls are true and honest; men who do not fear to call sin by it's right name; men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole; men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.-- Education, p. 57. (1903) CM 54.4
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 07:58:44 PM by Chrissie »
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Artiste

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2008, 09:25:06 PM »

It seems difficult, at least in the congregations that I have been exposed to, for pastors or local church leaders to take a stand in opposition to the more egregarious problems present in their church.
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Ozzie

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2008, 02:36:42 PM »

It seems difficult, at least in the congregations that I have been exposed to, for pastors or local church leaders to take a stand in opposition to the more egregarious problems present in their church.

It may be difficult. No one said that life is meant to be easy, but if it needs to be done, someone needs to stand up and be counted.
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Sister

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2008, 07:37:49 PM »

Nobody owns the Church... Part 3

In Part 2 Jean Fiscalini addressed the Thompsonville SDA Church Nominating Committee with his concerns regarding the re-election of Danny Shelton as a church elder. In neither his previous term as local elder, nor in respect to the election in question, was the title of elder bestowed upon Danny Shelton as an honorary position. At that time all church officers in the Thompsonville Church held functioning positions which they agreed to fulfill upon accepting the nomination for a particular office.

The pastor held up a paper in his right hand and referred the congregation to the copy they had received in the church bulletin, “Each of you has the Nominating Committee Report in front of you. If there is no discussion, we will now vote to accept the report as written.” As his eyes scanned through the pews they came to rest upon Jean Fiscalini. Dumbfounded, he realized that Jean had raised his hand and stood waiting to be recognized. The pastor acknowledged Jean and invited him to speak. “For reasons that I have already expressed to the Nominating Committee, I would like to recommend a change be made before the vote is taken.”

As Jean sat down his wife moved closer to him, placing her hand in his, she whispered into his ear, “You realize that you are committing career suicide.” Squeezing her hand, he said, “I have to follow my conscience.” “I know”, she replied, “I just wanted to make sure you realize where the consequences of you actions are leading us.” “Honey, I know what I have to do...” Looking into his wife’s eyes he understood that she was not questioning the necessity of his actions, but merely voicing her skepticism of Danny’s assurance that “...whatever happens in the Thompsonville church does not effect someone’s job at 3ABN. Even if Jean and I were to disagree about something at church, it would not effect his job.”  

Assuming the congregation was unaware of the nature of the objection being raised, the pastor asked the Nominating committee to immediately adjourn, accompanied by Jean Fiscalini, to another room for private discussion. Passing Danny Shelton, Jean leaned over to him and requested that he join them since the discussion was in regard to him, “Danny, can you join us, it is about you and I want you to hear the information first hand.”

For fifteen minutes, like the buzz of a swarming hive of bees, whispered voices fulled the sanctuary of the Thompsonville Church. Sitting silently, Kristina Fiscalini was aware of different individuals attempting to catch her eye. She looked down at her open Bible and tried to imagine what was happening behind the closed door where her husband was now facing Danny Shelton and the Nominating Committee. For her it was as if time stood still. She became aware of  the soft sound of a woman’s dressing sliding along the pew toward her. “Kristina, what is going on in there?” She looked up into the eyes of her trusted friend, but her only answer was to shake her head and return her eyes to the same passages she had read repeatedly for what seemed like eternity, as everyone waited...

Without warning a rush of silence engulfed the Sanctuary as Jean Fiscalini and Danny Shelton walked in together, followed by the Nominating Committee. His back turned to the Congregation and speaking in a hushed voice, what Danny had to say was intended for Jean alone, “That was ridiculous”, he hissed. An expression of controlled rage welled up upon his face he continued, “All you did was waste fifteen minutes of everybody’s time! You kept everybody waiting fifteen minutes for a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y nothing!” As Jean turned toward the front of the church to rejoin his wife, Danny took his accustomed seat in the pew that was situated against the back wall of the Sanctuary.

Looking up into her husband’s face as he sat down beside her, Kristina moved closer and squeezed his hand. A sad smile greeted her questioning glance as the pastor moved up to the microphone to address the congregation... “We will now continue the vote to accept the report of the Nominating Committee as written.”

From his position in the rear of the sanctuary, Danny surveyed his realm—everyone entering or leaving had to pass before him. This vantage point gave him the opportunity to observe the raised hand of Jean Fiscalini as he voted according to his conscience based upon Biblical principle, an action which Danny Shelton would interpret as Jean placing  himself in direct opposition to his authority.

Raising her hand to vote in unity with her husband, Kristina looked over her shoulder and saw the look of disgust and contempt on Danny’s face. Later, as her husband recounted what had taken place with Danny and the Committee, the image of Danny countenance as the vote was taken would surface in her mind. She realized her husband had made a very dangerous enemy that day, although he appeared unaware of the ramifications his simple act of conscience would cause him.

To be continued...
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Snoopy

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2008, 08:14:09 PM »

Sister, you have a true gift for writing.

Thank you!!!
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Gailon Arthur Joy

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2008, 09:35:48 PM »

I wonder at what point he gives the 3ABN Board the same look?

Gailon Arthur Joy
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Daryl Fawcett

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2008, 02:31:36 PM »

Does anybody know what Jean and Kristina Fiscalini are doing now?

Sister

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2008, 04:32:14 PM »

Does anybody know what Jean and Kristina Fiscalini are doing now?

They have returned to Switzerland. Jean Fiscalini is the senior Pastor for the district of Bern. Included in Pastor Fiscalini's church district is the headquarters of the Euro-African Division of Seventh-day Adventists.
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Fran

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2008, 04:57:20 PM »

Does anybody know what Jean and Kristina Fiscalini are doing now?

They have returned to Switzerland. Jean Fiscalini is the senior Pastor for the district of Bern. Included in Pastor Fiscalini's church district is the headquarters of the Euro-African Division of Seventh-day Adventists.

God rewards those who risk their jobs and stand up for truth.
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Daryl Fawcett

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2008, 05:51:43 PM »

Amen to that Fran! :)

Bob Pickle

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Re: Unauthorized History of 3ABN Continues
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2008, 06:21:26 PM »

They have returned to Switzerland. Jean Fiscalini is the senior Pastor for the district of Bern. Included in Pastor Fiscalini's church district is the headquarters of the Euro-African Division of Seventh-day Adventists.

So what does Division leadership there think about the various 3ABN issues? Do you know?
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