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Evolution at La Sierra?

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Artiste:
I think the general idea from both sources was that the Biblical account of creationism was passe and had been disproved scientifically.

Bob Pickle:

--- Quote from: sonshineonme on May 13, 2009, 03:03:17 pm ---Do you know what kind of evolution? Things do evolve and change and that still works with creationism (God's creation), so is this the kind of "evolving" that is going around or being discussed? I find it very hard to bite on that our schools would teach the full form version of evolution (verses creationism).

--- End quote ---

Absolutely, it's hard to bite on. It seems absolutely preposterous.

A number of months ago we were reading two books, Diamondola and Diamondola and Aram. They were church workers in the Middle East. According to the first book, Diamondola at the end of WWI actually died and was raised from the dead by a pastor in Turkey. Diamondola also accompanied a president of our work there when he tried to help Armenian Adventists who were forced to go on death marches toward and into the Syrian desert.

The second book is about her life after she married Aram. They had a daughter who married Lee Greer, Jr., and a grandchild also named Lee. I decided I'd try to see if I could locate any of these relatives of Diamondola and Aram.


9 May 2008; Report from the San Diego Adventist Forum Conference: Creation Care and Sustainability; By Jared Wright

Early on that article refers to "Lee F. Greer, Ph.D., Professor of Evolutionary Biology at La Sierra University." I wonder what Diamondola would think of that title if she were alive today?

Bob Pickle:

--- Quote from: Bob Pickle on May 14, 2009, 05:56:45 am ---
9 May 2008; Report from the San Diego Adventist Forum Conference: Creation Care and Sustainability; By Jared Wright

Early on that article refers to "Lee F. Greer, Ph.D., Professor of Evolutionary Biology at La Sierra University." I wonder what Diamondola would think of that title if she were alive today?

--- End quote ---

I wasn't the only one or the first one to wonder about that title. Clifford Goldstein was the first to comment on the article (see comments below the article at the above link):


--- Quote ---"and Lee F. Greer, Ph.D., Professor of Evolutionary Biology at La Sierra University."

Teaching "evolutionary biology" at a, ahem, SDA institution?

Tell the SDA church isn't, in some places, sick.
Posted by: Clifford Goldstein (not verified) | 10 May 2008 at 2:34
--- End quote ---

Cliff quickly got accused of being shallow, and responded:


--- Quote ---Elaine--

Rather than call me shallow and other names, why not ask our own on-the-payroll SDA "evolutionary biologist" yourself what he believes. Or better yet, ask him what he teaches in the classroom.
Posted by: Cliff Goldstein (not verified) | 10 May 2008 at 2:13
--- End quote ---

Then followed extended comments by Aage Rendalen, who left the church over Ford and was in the Collegedale area the same time Cliff was in the early 1980's. He appears to be defending the teaching of evolution.

Another comment from Cliff:


--- Quote ---Alex--

Jesus also said, "In vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" and if evolution isnt "a commandment of men," nothing is.

Evolution is apostasy from Jesus the Creator and Redeemer, not from Ellen White, who by the way called belief in evolution "disguised infidelity." I agree.

I'm beginning to wonder: Is there any worldly teaching out there, ANY? that Chrisians might find appalling enough to not try and incorporate it into their faith once it becomes du jour? I'm seriously beginning to doubt it. If so called "Christians" can find a way to incorporate evolution into their so called "faith" then I suppose nothing's off limits, huh?

"Sick," I think, is too kind of a word for it, actually.
Posted by: Cliff Goldstein (not verified) | 11 May 2008 at 1:23
--- End quote ---

If you want to read more of the comments of Cliff and other creation believers, as well as the comments of former and/or pseudo Adventists pushing evolution, just go to the above link and read the comments.

Bob Pickle:
Lastly, go to http://www.lasierra.edu/academics/bulletin.html and check out the academic bulletin. It states the following:


--- Quote ---BIOL 113 General Biology III (4)
Introduction to plant biology, including photosynthesis, evolution, transport, nutrition, reproduction, and environmental responses. Additionally includes basic ecological principles and processes and behavioral ecology.
prereqisite: BIOL 111, 112
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---BIOL 467 Herpetology (4)
Identification, evolution, distribution, and life history of amphibians and reptiles. Three class hours per week and one three-hour laboratory or the equivalent per week.
Prerequisite: BIOL 111, 111L, 112, 112L, 113, 113L
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---BIOL 477 Vertebrate Natural History (4)
An evolutionary approach to the morphology, physiology, behavior, and ecology of major vertebrate groups with special emphasis given to the vertebrates of southern California. Treats the question of how members of different vertebrate groups live their lives, and critiques scientific hypotheses as to how these different life strategies evolved. The course is designed to engage students in the scientific thought process required to go from the observed to the theoretical. Weekend field trips will be taken to different regions of southern California. Three class hours per week and one three-hour laboratory or the equivalent per week
Prerequisite: BIOL 111, 111L, 112, 112L, 113, 113L
--- End quote ---

I could not find any biology classes described as being "A creationist approach to ...."

Bob Pickle:
While I was searching for "Lee Greer," I also came across the following:


--- Quote ---Daniel solidly anchors the pre-Kingdom Judgment in Covenant time within the final 'week' of the 70 sabbatical 'weeks' not with any other time (Dan. 7-9; Rev. 11-14 by allusion follow the same; Hebrews 4:12-16; 12:22-24; etc. throughout the NT). Likewise based on Daniel, the NT repeatedly links the commencement of the pre-Advent Judgment with Christ's death and ascension to God's right hand in the 1st century CE, not with the 19th century. (See Appendix 4 below, as well as the texts and discussion in the section above, The pre-Advent Judgment and the Scroll).
--- End quote ---

http://www.jesusinstituteforum.org/Rev4-5HCE.html


--- Quote ---In “Debunking ‘the context problem’” (Adventist Review, 24 October 2002), Clifford Goldstein implies broadly that those (including loyal and conscientious Seventh-day Adventists) who have come to a different understanding of Daniel 8:14 than the traditional one have invented a “context problem.” He asserts that we don’t understand the Hebrew concept of justice and judgment, and that we reject the pre-Advent judgment. None of the above is correct.

...

Pre-Advent judgment. Yes, we embrace it because it is Biblical. The pre-Advent judgment convened at Calvary2 and extends to Advent (Ps. 110; John 12:31-33; 16:11; Rom. 3-4; Rev. 4-5; 6-7; 11; 12-14; Hebrews 4:11-16; 9-10; 12:22-24; I Pet. 4:17; I Tim. 5:24, etc.).

...

As Seventh-day Adventist Christians we are committed to a personal Second Advent, God’s eternal Covenant Law and holy Sabbath, the Three Angels’ messages, the non-immortality of the soul, and the vindication of the sanctuary.
--- End quote ---

http://www.jesusinstituteforum.org/Afriendlyresponse-Dan814.html

The last sentence quoted above does not appear to be either honest or correct, in my opinion. Since the 1st angel's message includes the announcement that the pre-advent judgment has begun in 1844 at the end of the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14, and since Mr. Greer above is quite clear that he does not believe the pre-advent judgment commenced in 1844, he had publicly repudiated part of the three angels' messages.

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