Theology Category > Doctrinal Discussions
Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
princessdi:
Yes, good points, and questions, however, George's question has still not been answered. Not to mention that at the time that Sis. White was ordained, there were also no less than 30 other women who were "ordained to preach" at the time. The church only took it's present stance after all these women had passed away. You won't find where Sis. White spoke out against the ordination of women either. She just didn't, and if she had you know the likes of DB would have found it and used it by now.
Also, one more question. if God was agianst the ordination of women, then why would He choose a woman to rule Israel as a judge? Deborah was directly under His authority.
I think we have it completely backwards, this time. The world has entered the church in the form of sexism.
Johann:
No answers to these questions yet?
--- Quote from: Johann on March 23, 2010, 10:02:45 AM ---Some questions to stir up your pure [poor] minds:
1. Where in Scripture does it say that a pastor should be ordained?
2. What Scripture do we use when we ordain deacons?
3. Does it say that the deacons should be ordained?
4. What is the Scriptural difference between Apostles, ministers, deacons, deaconesses, elders, pastors, bishops?
5. From where do we get the distinction?
I have some more questions, but I'll wait. . .
--- End quote ---
tinka:
--- Quote from: princessdi on March 23, 2010, 02:05:16 PM ---Yes, good points, and questions, however, George's question has still not been answered. Not to mention that at the time that Sis. White was ordained, there were also no less than 30 other women who were "ordained to preach" at the time. The church only took it's present stance after all these women had passed away. You won't find where Sis. White spoke out against the ordination of women either. She just didn't, and if she had you know the likes of DB would have found it and used it by now.
Also, one more question. if God was against the ordination of women, then why would He choose a woman to rule Israel as a judge? Deborah was directly under His authority.
I think we have it completely backwards, this time. The world has entered the church in the form of sexism.
--- End quote ---
Like Deborah and so was EGW. He does the choosing
Di, read again very carefully, The SDA boards did the ordaining. Not EGW. That brings on the church not following her messages clearly and doing their thing. again they did not follow her direction. The same she finally had to come down on their fanaticism on the Health message. There is a constant history she had to write about concerning what people chose to do and justify under her messages. She was not there to except ordination or had hands laid on her on nothing to the effect. Read the red print again and then evaluate without adding any justifications where the church was in order to do that. Even tho they did it..it was not her entire instructions through out. Women should be deaconesses and teachers helpers and bible workers. She made many many times comment on the work of women. Also, Johann has asked very legit questions of actual answers in biblical scripture of which at the moment I have not run down. Maybe you can.
There are many many instances where the organized church has made their own rules away and against the SP.
Look at the effects of the man made rule for the church manual now for the wearing of gold, for marriage. I think it might be in volume 1 where this is not what we are supposed to be doing.
Now turn your TV on to Hope channel and watch the "Family Reunion" and tell me who on there follows SP as they flaunt the gold, jewelry, red fingernail polish, cherry berry lips of a clown, vanity fingernails, vanity hussy looking hair spiked and bleached with the roots all a show-en and if you really want to be entertained into laughter, just turn the sound of them off and watch the distorations of funny faces with their vanity of heathenistic reaching their hands up in disrespect to the God of heaven after we have been solemnly told about how to worship Him, even the angels veil their faces in His presence. We got a good laugh at the soundless funnies. Then they stood and clapped and clapped for theirselves. and you call that worship for God. Then a high five was given to completment theirselves after the "Dixie Chics" did their thing. What is this? What are we to portray to public view that Adventist are no different then anyother church in off the wall worship. Shall we imitate the public of all faiths and jerk them in that way. I do not think so. As this example will lose more souls then you want to be accounted for. I am just sick over this when I know that SDA's somewhere are capable of the best. I have heard them and I have seen them. One other thing, I see the camera men really catch all glimpses of these glamor points for viewers to see. Is it on purpose to show folly or show finally all goes and come on in??? It appears it is from the most liberal west coast gang. Would you like to read about hand clapping and bring on the dancing? Just click it in the White EState Express. Hmmm, but who follows anything anymore it appears.
Johann:
Was Ellen G. White ever ordained?
Not by man!
Seems like she claimed herself that she'd been ordained by God. The Brethren acted on that and gave her the needed credentials as an ordained minister.
tinka:
That's maybe a good summary of it. But I would have to see where she claimed herself ordained as the only thing I remember is that she calls herself a "messenger". I would have picked up on that immediately as it would have went against all else I had read. I do not think she "needed" credentials. But they did do this as a gesture of her being a true messenger and their belief in her vision and revelation of understanding she presented. In her humbleness a way provided her not being there to except or have hands laid on her and her family said never did she do the duties of an ordained minister. So that pretty well sums it up. A pastor baptizes, marries, etc. She never did this. She made her duty very plain for herself and woman and men. Nothing can be presumed, added or taken away or justified under what the church did or did not do because they respected her as God's chosen. She relates herself quite different then an "ordained preacher". There is a reason for that and I must start to find some verses. Like Johann says in his questions. But we are given some directions for the organized church. There are some reservations though biblical that tell us about what leaders should be and do and that is about it more about how they should be. I believe they should be educated enough with hard work of study as too many non educated first emotional feelings thinks this brings on the calling and they should get the job with hardly any understanding and then you get the snake handlers. I think in this day we have to have ordained ministers for other purposes. For legal marriages, and legal churches for tax reduction purposes and for the law of the land. But many a lay person does well if he is a well studied well versed student of the Bible. Then the people choose their leader instead of the leader choosing himself. EGW message was to bring on the 3rd angels message and this did not take ordination from the church by no means.
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