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Author Topic: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders  (Read 64439 times)

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Alex L. Walker

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #120 on: February 22, 2011, 11:35:22 AM »

I would also pose a question for Johann, Robert and Bob Pickle:

Do you believe that divorced men should be able to pastor?
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Alex L. Walker
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Robert

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #121 on: February 22, 2011, 11:54:12 AM »

Alex

I have a question for you, is divorce any worse sin than lying in God's sight? 

I believe it depends on the reason for the divorce.  The question is what does God think on divorce and women in the church?

Robert
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Alex L. Walker

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #122 on: February 22, 2011, 12:02:44 PM »

Robert:

I believe that all sin is equal. I do not believe one sin is greater than another one, except for the unpardonable sin.

On Divorce: This is an issue that is probably the most debated among Southern Baptist. As a rule, the southern Baptist Church does not allow divorcee's to hold the title pastor.

I do believe that any type of fornication does warrant and is biblical grounds for divorce. I do not necessarily agree fully with the SB Church on their theory. However, I am against men being ordained pastor's if the divorce was for any reason other than fornication.

Now, to the subject of re-marriage. Jesus tell's us that a man put away his wife and marries another one he hath committed adultery. So, my problem would not necessarily be with a man who has been divorced, but someone who has remarried.
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Alex L. Walker
"When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on."~ Thomas Jefferson

Artiste

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #123 on: February 22, 2011, 01:45:02 PM »

I am so old that I remember my mother using a washboard next to the creek where she heated the water over firewood.

Should we re-establish a way for dedicated women to get hold of those washboards? That would occupy their time and help them not to get into mischief in Church!

Ha-ha, Johann!
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"Si me olvido de ti, oh Jerusalén, pierda mi diestra su destreza."

Johann

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #124 on: February 22, 2011, 02:24:07 PM »

I know I'm not Adventist, and that I am southern Baptist. However, I would like to add that I have a HUGE problem with women carrying the title Pastor. I do not believe that it is a woman's place to pastor be a deacon or even serve on the church board. 

I further do not believe that God would call any woman to do any of these jobs I have spoken of. So, I would have to agree with Doug Bachelor's analysis.

This is input from a Southern Baptist Minister. :)

A tough question, Alex. In a way it reminds me of early church history when the new Christians were developing their doctrines and moral philosophy. We might not realize it, but quite early the moral stands of the church was based not so much on what Jesus Christ or the Apostles had said but comparisons were made with other group of philosophies or religion. You had the Greek, the Roman, the Jewish, the Gnostic, the Stoics, etc. Often the main concern of the developing church was trying to appear to be "better" or at least with just as high "morals" as other groups in the eyes of the general public.

It appears like other groups had some kind of monks and nuns, and so the new Christians decided they should have that too, and that their monks and nuns should be even better. Since it was a sacrifice to live without a spouse, the Christian pastors or priests should be able to do that and even better. And thus several doctrines emerged.

Some of the doctrines today have a similar history. Since the Baptists have such high ideals about clergy, etc, then we should be able to do even better.

Much good can be accomplished this way, but to my way of thinking this is not the right standard to compare man with man. I adhere to the belief that God must speak to me through Scripture and reveal to me what He wants me to do, even if another member of my own chuch has a different idea. Then it becomes much more important that we get together and study what God wants us to know about this subject. "Come, let us reason together. . ."
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Johann

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #125 on: February 22, 2011, 02:38:26 PM »

You said it is difficult, and it is. I feel the way to go is to compare all that Scripture has to say on that subject, and not only base the decision on one text. And it might also take a lot of prayer - and even fasting.

I would also pose a question for Johann, Robert and Bob Pickle:

Do you believe that divorced men should be able to pastor?
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Robert

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #126 on: February 22, 2011, 03:21:45 PM »

Johann

Well said! 

Robert
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Alex L. Walker

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #127 on: February 22, 2011, 05:55:10 PM »

Johann and Robert:

Back on the issues of women holding the title of pastor. Didn't the apostle Paul teach that a woman's place was to be quiet in the church?

I feel I must say this. If a woman feels a calling on her life. I would have no issue with her seeking to be an evangelist. However, being the head of the church is an entirely different story.

For instance: Let's look at the book of Timothy where the Apostle Paul gives the instruction's for the Pastor and Deacons. It is clear that he is giving those instructions to men not women.

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Alex L. Walker
"When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on."~ Thomas Jefferson

Johann

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #128 on: February 22, 2011, 08:42:33 PM »

Johann and Robert:

Back on the issues of women holding the title of pastor. Didn't the apostle Paul teach that a woman's place was to be quiet in the church?

I feel I must say this. If a woman feels a calling on her life. I would have no issue with her seeking to be an evangelist. However, being the head of the church is an entirely different story.

For instance: Let's look at the book of Timothy where the Apostle Paul gives the instruction's for the Pastor and Deacons. It is clear that he is giving those instructions to men not women.



Depends on which Bible translation you use. Many scholars understand the original text to say that female deacons should be ordained, just like the men. The original does not clearly state "their wives", but "women". - Therefore that female deacons should be treated just like male deacons.

So it depends on your own bias how you read the text.

Quote
1 Timothy 3:11
New International Version, ©2010 (NIV)

Listen to this passage
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 11 In the same way, the women[a] are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.

Footnotes:

   1. 1 Timothy 3:11 Possibly deacons’ wives or women who are deacons

New International Version, ©2010 (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2010 by Biblica
The Message (MSG)

View commentary related to this passage

 8-13The same goes for those who want to be servants in the church: serious, not deceitful, not too free with the bottle, not in it for what they can get out of it. They must be reverent before the mystery of the faith, not using their position to try to run things. Let them prove themselves first. If they show they can do it, take them on. No exceptions are to be made for women—same qualifications: serious, dependable, not sharp-tongued, not overfond of wine. Servants in the church are to be committed to their spouses, attentive to their own children, and diligent in looking after their own affairs. Those who do this servant work will come to be highly respected, a real credit to this Jesus-faith.

The Message (MSG)

Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
New Century Version (NCV)

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11 In the same way, women[a] must be respected by others. They must not speak evil of others. They must be self-controlled and trustworthy in everything.

Footnotes:

   1. 1 Timothy 3:11 women This might mean the wives of the deacons, or it might mean women who serve in the same way as deacons.

New Century Version (NCV)

The Holy Bible, New Century Version®. Copyright © 2005 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
Contemporary English Version (CEV)

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11Women [a] must also be serious. They must not gossip or be heavy drinkers, and they must be faithful in everything they do.

Footnotes:

   1. 1 Timothy 3:11 Women: Either church officers or the wives of church officers.

Contemporary English Version (CEV)

Copyright © 1995 by American Bible Society
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Johann

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #129 on: February 22, 2011, 08:56:14 PM »

The title "pastor" occurs only one time in the New Testament, and it means shepherd, so there is no instructions on the term pastor in Scripture.

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tinka

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #130 on: February 23, 2011, 06:12:57 AM »

The way I understand from a broad picture of the word "Ordained" is this:

When the foundation of the SDA was first formed, it was issential that all were on the same page of Inspired guidence before they entered into teaching. It was a responsibility of the people of the 3rd angels "enlightening" of this message to all be on the same page in order to go out and give it in the manner presented. Ordination was special prayer and laying on of hands to make sure that "ones own opinions and presentations were exactly as given that upheld all the foundation revelations of truth opened up for that time. To me that is all that it means and the asking of blessing on that person to be right and sincere in taking on this great feat of spreading the last message of to a people just before the coming events.

All other denominations take the same stance on their beliefs to uphold their religions.

Now the question arises that if God's chosen instrument is to bring this to light and she states has been "Ordained" of God to do so, then where is the thinking of men and women to think they must ordain EGW by their hands when she clearly states she has been "ordained" by God as a messenger and nothing else. That is plain simple to me. She never attended man's vote to do otherwise. She already gave clear picture the work of women according to scripture. She knew beyond doubt where her credentials came from and why would she want "applause" or credentials from men. I understand her clearly. What a slap in the face to God if she had "vanity" for this acknowledgement from earthly feebles.  The fact is that God made women to be a helpmate, companion, mother, teacher, and so what is man??...... without?? (smile) A women has the greatest job and accomplishments of all as she provides the nourishment and armour for the battle!!! A man in return for his protective and strong love for women gives back to him her reason for living and love for God that gave her this protection.  So this is what I get when I read that women are respected. Nothing more and nothing less. Too bad that some only like to wear pants and their duty and job is all mouth while they produce offspring that is cared by someone else.

Two weeks ago unexpected and instant to my finding, I just lost the love of my heart. I feel very lost and broken and can't believe hardly what time of day or when it is. Just coming on post to divert my hurt. He gave what he was in my life for and I in return believe and did what I wrote above. We always wanted eternity together. Now I wait. It was the best way that worked for us.

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Alex L. Walker

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #131 on: February 23, 2011, 09:40:39 AM »

I for one would never allow a woman to stand behind my pulpit. Call me sexist, call me old-fashioned, whatever. The truth is lady's are  not called to preach!
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Alex L. Walker
"When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on."~ Thomas Jefferson

Johann

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #132 on: February 24, 2011, 02:10:17 AM »

I for one would never allow a woman to stand behind my pulpit. Call me sexist, call me old-fashioned, whatever. The truth is lady's are  not called to preach!

You are in "good" company. The largest Christian body will be in full agreement with you.

Quote
Women Priests — No Chance
JOANNE BOGLE
There is a general assumption, especially in North America and Europe, that the Catholic Church’s insistence on a male priesthood is an obscure anomaly, which endures only because a Polish pope has refused to move with the times.
. . .
. . .
In the Church’s latest statement on this matter, Pope John Paul II, using his full authority as the successor of Peter, states categorically that the Church cannot — not will not, but cannot — ordain women, now or in the future. The Catechism of the Catholic Church sets it out clearly, quoting the decree Inter insigniores:

    Only a baptized man (vir) receives sacred ordination.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0001.html
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Johann

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #133 on: February 24, 2011, 03:19:37 AM »

From The Texas Baptist Committed:

Quote
  Dr. Billy Graham, when asked by David Frost about women's ordination, said, "Women preach all over the world. It doesn't bother me at all from my study of the Scriptures. And there were many women preachers in the Bible." . . .

. . . on the same day that the SBC published its proposed revision to the "Baptist Faith and Message," USA Today carried an article about Anne Graham Lotz, daughter of the famous evangelist. In that article, Graham called her the "best preacher in the family."

http://www.txbc.org/2000Journals/July2000/July00womeninthepulpit.htm
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Robert

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Re: Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
« Reply #134 on: February 24, 2011, 05:51:58 AM »

I had the hardest time believe that Saturday was the Bible day of worship.  I though they were crazy.  How could so many be wrong?  It took me a few years of study.  I read book after book on Sunday and Saturday worship.  I read of Moody and other great preachers who questioned Saturday as the true day of worship.  I read only a few Germans didn't believe in what Hitler was doing.  I had been wrong so many times.  Now I question more.  I was 45 when I went to college.  It taught me so many things I had been wrong about.

Robert
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