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Author Topic: Other Texts besides the Bible?  (Read 6397 times)

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mrst53

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Other Texts besides the Bible?
« on: June 03, 2010, 05:25:32 PM »

Since I am not a SDA, I am wondering if you use other texts besides the Bible. Do you use the books between the Old and New Testament that the King James left out? I often see other texts cited and wonder where they are from. Thanks
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Emma

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2010, 06:01:21 PM »

MrsT, SDAs do not usually refer to the Apocrypha in their serious studies.

Anything that comes from the Bible should be recognisable by the attribution.. eg Matthew 1:1, in the standard book, chapter and verse notation.

Other authors including EG White may be quoted,  "...................."  Author, Book, title of page etc but these quotations would be regarding as sources secondary to the Bible which is the basis of SDA belief, ie the Bible is the primary 'text'.
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tinka

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2010, 06:07:19 PM »

Mrst53

In my experience of studying the King James Version is most widely used by SDA. I have found in New Versions some discrepancies that are some what misleading even with one word.  Many will argue makes no difference but it does. We cannot study and leave out any books Old or New as they both need each other for complete understanding.  If you have extra books then you must have a Catholic Bible and yes, there will be quite a difference. If you match the 10 commandments, you will find they changed and revamped them from the original. They change the 4Th commandment and leave it out. Check it out.

Sorry, Mrst53, after reading Emma's answer I see what you mean now. Emma has I think what you were asking.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 06:10:49 PM by tinka »
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mrst53

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2010, 06:20:06 PM »

 :dogwag:No I do not have the Catholic Bible, so what I have seen quoted must have been from EG White.(which is whom to the SDA?)
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tinka

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2010, 07:36:12 PM »

Mrst53,

In 1844 a young girl had a dream or vision along with others having the identical dream, she was the latter to have the dream but she very carefully entered into one of the most amazing stories you will read. Don't be worried she was not a psychic. She wrote it down in a small few page book called Early Writings, If you go on the Internet and bring up "White Estate" her books are free to read. Early Writings is so amazing that you will want to not stop till the end. You can read it pretty quick.  She went on through her whole life with many books of finer details but still biblical of great insight from visions. She did not want to be called a prophet Just a messenger of what she was inspired to write. You will be amazed. She dedicated her whole life to writing without an education. She gathered all historical records that belonged to Biblical History to only prove future prophecy and the truth of the Bible and along with visions wrote the most religious amount of books that are in the DC. library. The work had to be tremendous  as the books show tons of historical happenings written from all ages.  The most beautiful is the life of Christ called "Desire of Ages. and the History of all History is called "Great Controversy". This is a real treat to get on and read all for free. This is a series called Conflict of the Ages. If you have read the Bible through first you will with out doubt know she was inspired the same as the old Bible writers. Her writings are vibrant, the best psychology, and enlightening, with the most reasonable and common sense explanations that sometimes you don't get at first reading of Bible verses.  She teaches you to understand by directions for one to open up to Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit comes to an open mind. He really does. She just directs to it.... I hope you can read it.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 07:55:03 PM by tinka »
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princessdi

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2010, 03:24:04 PM »

Mrst53, you ask great questions!   i also want to add, lest we be thought ignorant.  That there are other writings from the time of the Bible.  They were just not included in the 66 book cannon as we know it.  they were not chosen for one reason or another  Some were from the Gnostics, which ws an automatic no.  Some were also some doctrinal differences at the time, and some were more for hisotrical purposes....like the writings of Joesphus.   

Now, one thing that I am not clear on is why they left such a long span of time between the testaments.  The writings were there.  I would like to find that out.
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It is the duty of every cultured man or woman to read sympathetically the scriptures of the world.  If we are to respect others' religions as we would have them respect our own, a friendly study of the world's religions is a sacred duty. - Mohandas K. Gandhi

mrst53

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2010, 08:44:02 PM »

I read Desire of the Ages years and years ago. I will have to pick up another copy or read it on the internet. I once had a dear older friend who as a SDA and I attended SDA Bible School as a child every summer. Even then I was hungry for God's Word. I think I attended every Bible School I could get to. I have read the Bible thru many times, each time, God has opened my eyes to new and different things. Of course, we are not able, nor are we ready to ready to see or hear with our hearts everthing at one time.
The others I have not read.
I do have the books of the Aprocryphra. I have read some. I know that some were written by women and I know that they would not have been not have included by King James. Why Ruth and Esther were, who knows? The reason the others were left out, I don't know either and I haven't done enough research to figure out why- I need to do that.
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princessdi

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2010, 10:35:28 PM »

Mrst53, have you watched the "Banned From the Bible" docs on History Channel.  There are two of them.  Very good. It explains why some of the books were not included.  It is a good starting place.


I read Desire of the Ages years and years ago. I will have to pick up another copy or read it on the internet. I once had a dear older friend who as a SDA and I attended SDA Bible School as a child every summer. Even then I was hungry for God's Word. I think I attended every Bible School I could get to. I have read the Bible thru many times, each time, God has opened my eyes to new and different things. Of course, we are not able, nor are we ready to ready to see or hear with our hearts everthing at one time.
The others I have not read.
I do have the books of the Aprocryphra. I have read some. I know that some were written by women and I know that they would not have been not have included by King James. Why Ruth and Esther were, who knows? The reason the others were left out, I don't know either and I haven't done enough research to figure out why- I need to do that.
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It is the duty of every cultured man or woman to read sympathetically the scriptures of the world.  If we are to respect others' religions as we would have them respect our own, a friendly study of the world's religions is a sacred duty. - Mohandas K. Gandhi

Bob Pickle

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2010, 01:23:29 PM »

I do have the books of the Aprocryphra. I have read some. I know that some were written by women and I know that they would not have been not have included by King James.

Actually, I think the original KJV did include the apocrypha. But I don't think even then that Protestants believes it to be inspired. Interestingly, my understanding is that Dr. Eck, Luther's opponent, didn't think the apocrypha was inspired either, but it was needed to prove some Catholic doctrines, so the Council of Trent declared the apocrypha to be part of the canon of Scripture.
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Gregory

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 05:23:57 AM »

There are many ancient writtings produced in the inter-testamental period and for a period of time after the life of Christ that claimed to be inspired. The so-called apocrypha and pseudepigrapha are two sets of writings that are most commonly known.  But, these do not exhaust the writings.

Scholars are not in total agreement as to the constitutent parts of these sets of writings.  Some works are included in both sets.  Some say that the pseudepigraphal works ended about 200 AD and others extend that time period a bit.  Apocryphal works are generally dated to the Intertestamental period.

Roman Catholic andOrthodox churches generally accept the apocryphal works that are included in their Bibles.  But they reject others. Some Protestant groups accept those typically included in Bibles.

As a point of interest:  There are four (4) books of Maccabees.  They first and second are included in Bibles and the third and fourth are rejected by all.  First Maccabees is accepted as the best historical account of that period of time by those who reject it as inspired.  Second Maccabees is accepted as having some historical value but much less than the First book of Maccabees.

I have in my library a book of selections from some of these works.  Probably the most interesting of these writings are those that tell us the story of the life of Christ when he was a young child and those that provide additional material on the creation of the Earth and the entry of sin into the world.  NOTE: Much of these writing conflict in major ways what we believe the Bible teaches.

Without checking, I believe the following story of Christ as a child comes from the Gospil of Thomas.  [NOTE: There are other stories of Christ as a child from other writings.]  In this story Christ and several other boys are playing together.  They are taking clay and making figures of birds.  The other boys laugh at the figures made by Christ.  So, Christ in a fit of anger conmmands his figures to come to life.  They do and fly off into the distance.

There is another story in another book, as I recall, where children who make fun of Christ, are struck dead.

Many of the writings about the creation of the Earth and the entry of sin into this world are a very long ways apart from what we read in the Bible.

Here is one citation taken from Wikipedia:

Quote
In Biblical studies, pseudepigrapha refers particularly to works which purport to be written by noted authorities in either the Old and New Testaments or by persons involved in Jewish or Christian religious study or history. These works can also be written about Biblical matters, often in such a way that they appear to be as authoritative as works which have been included in the many versions of the Judeo-Christian scriptures. Eusebius of Caesarea indicates this usage dates back at least to Serapion, bishop of Antioch[clarification needed] whom Eusebius records[4] as having said: "But those writings which are falsely inscribed with their name (ta pseudepigrapha), we as experienced persons reject..."
 
Many such works were also referred to as Apocrypha, which originally connoted "secret writings", those that were rejected for liturgical public reading. An example of a text that is both apocryphal and pseudepigraphical is the Odes of Solomon, pseudepigraphical because it was not actually written by Solomon but instead is a collection of early Christian (first to second century) hymns and poems, originally written not in Hebrew, and apocryphal because they were not accepted in either the Tanach or the New Testament.
 
But Protestants have also applied the word Apocrypha to texts found in the Roman Catholic and Orthodox scriptures which were not found in Hebrew manuscripts. Roman Catholics called those texts "deuterocanonical". Accordingly, there arose in some Protestant Biblical scholarship an extended use of the term pseudepigrapha for works that appeared as though they ought to be part of the Biblical canon, because of the authorship ascribed to them, but which stood outside both the Biblical canons recognized by Protestants and Catholics. These works were also outside the particular set of books that Roman Catholics called deuterocanonical and to which Protestants had generally applied the term Apocryphal. Accordingly, the term pseudepigraphical, as now used often among both Protestants and Roman Catholics (allegedly for the clarity it brings to the discussion), may make it difficult to discuss questions of pseudepigraphical authorship of canonical books dispassionately with a lay audience. To confuse the matter even more, Orthodox Christians accept books as canonical that Roman Catholics and most Protestant denominations consider pseudepigraphical or at best of much less authority. There exist also churches that reject some of the books that Roman Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants accept. The same is true of some Jewish sects.[clarification needed]
 
There is a tendency not to use the word pseudepigrapha when describing works later than about 300 AD when referring to Biblical matters. But the late-appearing Gospel of Barnabas, Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius, the Pseudo-Apuleius (author of a fifth-century herbal ascribed to Apuleius), and the author traditionally referred to as the "Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite", are classic examples of pseudepigraphy. In the fifth century the moralist Salvian published Contra avaritiam under the name of Timothy; the letter in which he explained to his former pupil, Bishop Salonius, his motives for so doing survives.[5] There is also a category of modern pseudepigrapha.
 
Examples of Old Testament pseudepigrapha are the Ethiopian Book of Enoch, Jubilees (both of which are canonical in the Abyssinian Church of Ethiopia); the Life of Adam and Eve and the Pseudo-Philo. Examples of New Testament pseudepigrapha (but in these cases also likely to be called New Testament Apocrypha) are the Gospel of Peter and the attribution of the Epistle to the Laodiceans to Paul. Further examples of New Testament pseudepigrapha include the aforementioned Gospel of Barnabas, and the Gospel of Judas, which begins by presenting itself as "the secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation with Judas Iscariot".
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Murcielago

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2012, 10:23:37 PM »

Us SDAs hold the Writings of Ellen G. White as sacred text. She is considered among us as a true prophet, just as sacred as those canonized in the Holy Bible.

But we should always remember that no human is perfect. For example, although many do consider the KJV as the only true and sacred English translation, many do not, as King James was a prolific early 17th century pedophile and had a harem of young boys. His expenditures on this side interest depleted the Royal Treasury to the point that Parliament had to protest loudly against his boys. The Speaker of the House of Lords said that the people should not have to be taxed to pay for his private (word for roosters that also meant spigots, and has since then been used as a word for male genitalia.)  That aside, it is widely accepted that he was led and inspired of God regardless of his sexual proclivities and habits and that God was his guiding force as King James I of England, and King James VI of Scotland, but primarily as King James the namesake of our most revered and treasured book. History is filled with interesting and disturbing anomalies.
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Enoch

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2012, 04:45:24 PM »

You don't need a Catholic Bible to find the Apocrypha.  Most Protestant Bibles contained the apocrypha until 1827 (I refer only to the Old Testament apocrypha).  In fact, the Harmon family Bible contained the apocrypha and James White referenced the book of 2nd Esdras in A Word to the Little Flock.  For an interesting article on the apocrypha and Adventists, I recommend http://www.adventistreview.org/2002-1513/story2.html.
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Gregory

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2012, 08:42:15 PM »

Enoch said:
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Most Protestant Bibles contained the apocrypha until 1827 . . .

It would probably be more accurate to say:  "Prior to 1827, most Bibles published by the British and Foreign Bible Society, in the English language, contained the apocrypha."

Anly implication that Protestant Bibles published in other languages is not supported.

NOTE:  I very much support Enoch's reference to the Adventist Review article.  It is an excellant article, balanced and contains information little known by most Adventists.  Enoch has done a service to bring this to our attention.
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Enoch

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2012, 12:43:55 PM »

Luther's German Bible contained the apocrypha though it stated the following: "Apocrypha: These Books Are Not Held Equal to the Scriptures, but Are Useful and Good to Read."  The importance of Luther's German Bible is equivalent to the King James Bible in the English language.  It helped establish a common German language and was found in every German Protestant's home.  I am not sure if printings of the Luther Bible today still contain the apocrypha, and if they don't, at what time they were removed.  Perhaps some German members of the board could help us out on that one.
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Gregory

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Re: Other Texts besides the Bible?
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2012, 04:46:49 PM »

Luther:  He may have been the Father of Protestantism (along with others) but as a former Roman Catholic priest he brought some Catholic theology along with him.
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