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Author Topic: Creativity in Condemnation and Indoctrination  (Read 2173 times)

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Azenilto Brito

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Creativity in Condemnation and Indoctrination
« on: June 13, 2010, 10:29:35 AM »


Creativity in Condemnation and Indoctrination

       In her permanent intent to bashing SDA’s, Mrs. Colleen Tinker, who is kind of a “specialist” in finding fault in Ellen White’s writings, seems very creative this time in the last edition of Proclamation! magazine (Jan-Mar, 2010). This time, in a loooong and extremely boring article, she finds fault even in our children’s storybooks, blaming Ellen White’s influence for supposedly containing some wrong views of God, creation, and all else. But the most serious accusation is that Ellen White was influenced by the Mormons when she describes Jesus’ experience in Gethsemane. I even didn’t know that the Mormons taught what she alleges—that Christ was tortured in Gethsemane to pay for the sins of the world, rather than in Calvary.
       The problem is that this creativeness doesn’t take into account Mrs. White’s impressive account of what happened at Calvary, all that pathos and the cosmic meaning of the event, which destroys any of these innuendos of Mormonism’s influence in her writings, especially regarding the meaning of Jesus’ passion and death. She deliberately omits this aspect of her writings, which just shows the level of honesty of these “researchers” of the Adventists faith.
       Now, another false theological stand that seems like a “new light”, since I never saw expressed before in the Ratzlaff’s materials, is the “once saved always saved” predestination-inspired notion, which is expressed in different ways in this last issue under scrutiny.
       When I hear or read about that my mind takes me back to some of my “new alliance” church teachings of olden days. When I was a child and adolescent, I attended a traditional Evangelical church where this “certainty of salvation” slogan was almost the trademark of older members. I was very impressed then with this “certainty” expressed by many, who almost thumped their chests when saying—“I am saved”, “I will be in heaven”, “I will never lose my salvation”. I envied these people and looked forward to reaching their stage of Christian maturity to be able to say the same.
       When I grew up some more and became a young man, thus having a closer relationship with these “salvation-guaranteed” folks, especially young adults, I was shocked with some of their attitudes and ideas.
       One, who was a much appreciated singer and guitar player, once in an excursion we had to another city came up with an immoral proposal to me at night, in the place they assigned us to sleep, which I rejected right away. . . For another disappointing situation of a “salvation-guaranteed” individual, I overheard another one making plans with a friend to meet a certain girl, who didn’t belong to the church, for non-sanctified objectives. As he realized that I had heard their conversation he turned to me and said: “Don’t repeat what we are talking about at home, to your father. . .”. That was very disturbing to me, as he was one of the most respected Bible instructors and a preacher during open-air evangelistic efforts of that congregation.
       That all and other episodes like these, besides other attitudes by different “salvation guaranteed” people, led me to be very uncertain of THEIR salvation. . .
       Later on, I met a lady who belonged to a traditional Calvinist family and never got married, which was a right of hers. She liked to mention to me sometimes that she was a chosen lamb, a predestined person who could be certain of her salvation, and all that stuff that those who believe in predestination are used to say.
       Now, the problem was that she also couldn’t tell the number of men she had slept with! Even a married man, husband of a friend of hers, she confessed to harass her often, and that she ended up complying with his requests to go to bed with him. . .  It never seemed to cross her mind that this kind of attitude is totally incompatible to the behavior of whoever has the “seal” of guaranteed salvation. Her theology seemed not to be clear enough on these matters. . .
       I am not saying that ALL those who have these convictions and repeat these slogans are blatant sinners like these I mentioned, but these ideas certainly are something that the devil has devised to fool people into an accommodation with a sin-ridden kind of life. They don’t care about growing in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, as we are bidden in 2 Ped. 3:18. Why should they bother about having to develop their sanctification toward a life more similar to that of Jesus Christ? They will go to heaven no matter what kind of life and spiritual growth they have reached. . .
       That is, no doubt, a very subtle and deceiving notion that just leads people to the neglect of keeping God’s commandment, especially the “inconvenient” ones, like Sabbath keeping, food restrictions, tithing. They prefer to enjoy their “Christian freedom”, not being under these unpopular rules.
       That is what Ratzlaffism is promoting now, how regrettable! This type of cheap grace--the denial of the challenging face-to-face battles against certain sins, as they deny even being a sin once they have decided against some Bible principles—only reminds us Jesus’ words, “by their fruits ye will now if a tree is good or bad”. . .
       Now I have met people advocating this once-saved-always-saved theology, but when I mention just one text they normally hush up: Galatians 5:4:

       “You who are trying to be saved by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace”.

       Now, whoever falls from somewhere is because was firmly standing there before. And if he/she becomes “alienated from Christ”, especially as the context mentions--people who had “begun well” and had experienced the Spirit (chap. 3)--no doubt Paul is referring to people who LOST THEIR SALVATION.
       Many other Bible texts are clear about this loosing salvation possibilities and the need to struggle to maintain a firm position as real Christians:

       “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thes. 5:23).

       “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.” (Heb. 10:26-27).

       “My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins....” (Jas. 5:19-20).

       “If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.” (John 15:6).

       “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.” (1 Tm 4:1).

       “But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body . . . if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel....”(Col 1:22-23).

       “How shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? . . .” (Heb; 2: 3).


       Many more could be cited, but my intention here is not to delve into a profound study on this predestination-inspired “guarantee of salvation” thesis, just to wrap up the analysis of this last edition of Proclamation!.
       Now, Seventh-day Adventists don’t deny that we should be certain of our salvation, and our faith statement makes that clear, on topic 10 of our official doctrinal statement, regarding “Salvation”. It is, then, a question of finding the right balance to understand that issue on the light of all else taught in the Bible:

       In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God’s grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God’s sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God’s law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.) – Highlighted by me.

NOTE: To follow the complete discussion on this specific issue of Proclamation! Magazine, visit:

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Johann

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Re: Creativity in Condemnation and Indoctrination
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 04:57:43 AM »


Creativity in Condemnation and Indoctrination

       In her permanent intent to bashing SDA’s, Mrs. Colleen Tinker, who is kind of a “specialist” in finding fault in Ellen White’s writings, seems very creative this time in the last edition of Proclamation! magazine (Jan-Mar, 2010). This time, in a loooong and extremely boring article, she finds fault even in our children’s storybooks, blaming Ellen White’s influence for supposedly containing some wrong views of God, creation, and all else. But the most serious accusation is that Ellen White was influenced by the Mormons when she describes Jesus’ experience in Gethsemane. I even didn’t know that the Mormons taught what she alleges—that Christ was tortured in Gethsemane to pay for the sins of the world, rather than in Calvary.
       The problem is that this creativeness doesn’t take into account Mrs. White’s impressive account of what happened at Calvary, all that pathos and the cosmic meaning of the event, which destroys any of these innuendos of Mormonism’s influence in her writings, especially regarding the meaning of Jesus’ passion and death. She deliberately omits this aspect of her writings, which just shows the level of honesty of these “researchers” of the Adventists faith.

I have been wondering why we have not expressed our appreciation to you for pointing this interesting material out to us. It seems to me like it is just too  much material presented in one batch for this particular forum. If the above had been presented by itself more people might have taken time to read it and comment.

The above is a good example of spinning the truth, something we have experienced done so frequently here on AT. But now I have to go somewhere, so I have no time to comment on what is below right now.
Quote
       Now, another false theological stand that seems like a “new light”, since I never saw expressed before in the Ratzlaff’s materials, is the “once saved always saved” predestination-inspired notion, which is expressed in different ways in this last issue under scrutiny.
       When I hear or read about that my mind takes me back to some of my “new alliance” church teachings of olden days. When I was a child and adolescent, I attended a traditional Evangelical church where this “certainty of salvation” slogan was almost the trademark of older members. I was very impressed then with this “certainty” expressed by many, who almost thumped their chests when saying—“I am saved”, “I will be in heaven”, “I will never lose my salvation”. I envied these people and looked forward to reaching their stage of Christian maturity to be able to say the same.
       When I grew up some more and became a young man, thus having a closer relationship with these “salvation-guaranteed” folks, especially young adults, I was shocked with some of their attitudes and ideas.
       One, who was a much appreciated singer and guitar player, once in an excursion we had to another city came up with an immoral proposal to me at night, in the place they assigned us to sleep, which I rejected right away. . . For another disappointing situation of a “salvation-guaranteed” individual, I overheard another one making plans with a friend to meet a certain girl, who didn’t belong to the church, for non-sanctified objectives. As he realized that I had heard their conversation he turned to me and said: “Don’t repeat what we are talking about at home, to your father. . .”. That was very disturbing to me, as he was one of the most respected Bible instructors and a preacher during open-air evangelistic efforts of that congregation.
       That all and other episodes like these, besides other attitudes by different “salvation guaranteed” people, led me to be very uncertain of THEIR salvation. . .
       Later on, I met a lady who belonged to a traditional Calvinist family and never got married, which was a right of hers. She liked to mention to me sometimes that she was a chosen lamb, a predestined person who could be certain of her salvation, and all that stuff that those who believe in predestination are used to say.
       Now, the problem was that she also couldn’t tell the number of men she had slept with! Even a married man, husband of a friend of hers, she confessed to harass her often, and that she ended up complying with his requests to go to bed with him. . .  It never seemed to cross her mind that this kind of attitude is totally incompatible to the behavior of whoever has the “seal” of guaranteed salvation. Her theology seemed not to be clear enough on these matters. . .
       I am not saying that ALL those who have these convictions and repeat these slogans are blatant sinners like these I mentioned, but these ideas certainly are something that the devil has devised to fool people into an accommodation with a sin-ridden kind of life. They don’t care about growing in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, as we are bidden in 2 Ped. 3:18. Why should they bother about having to develop their sanctification toward a life more similar to that of Jesus Christ? They will go to heaven no matter what kind of life and spiritual growth they have reached. . .
       That is, no doubt, a very subtle and deceiving notion that just leads people to the neglect of keeping God’s commandment, especially the “inconvenient” ones, like Sabbath keeping, food restrictions, tithing. They prefer to enjoy their “Christian freedom”, not being under these unpopular rules.
       That is what Ratzlaffism is promoting now, how regrettable! This type of cheap grace--the denial of the challenging face-to-face battles against certain sins, as they deny even being a sin once they have decided against some Bible principles—only reminds us Jesus’ words, “by their fruits ye will now if a tree is good or bad”. . .
       Now I have met people advocating this once-saved-always-saved theology, but when I mention just one text they normally hush up: Galatians 5:4:

       “You who are trying to be saved by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace”.

       Now, whoever falls from somewhere is because was firmly standing there before. And if he/she becomes “alienated from Christ”, especially as the context mentions--people who had “begun well” and had experienced the Spirit (chap. 3)--no doubt Paul is referring to people who LOST THEIR SALVATION.
       Many other Bible texts are clear about this loosing salvation possibilities and the need to struggle to maintain a firm position as real Christians:

       “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thes. 5:23).

       “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.” (Heb. 10:26-27).

       “My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins....” (Jas. 5:19-20).

       “If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.” (John 15:6).

       “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.” (1 Tm 4:1).

       “But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body . . . if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel....”(Col 1:22-23).

       “How shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? . . .” (Heb; 2: 3).


       Many more could be cited, but my intention here is not to delve into a profound study on this predestination-inspired “guarantee of salvation” thesis, just to wrap up the analysis of this last edition of Proclamation!.
       Now, Seventh-day Adventists don’t deny that we should be certain of our salvation, and our faith statement makes that clear, on topic 10 of our official doctrinal statement, regarding “Salvation”. It is, then, a question of finding the right balance to understand that issue on the light of all else taught in the Bible:

       In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God’s grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God’s sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God’s law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.) – Highlighted by me.

NOTE: To follow the complete discussion on this specific issue of Proclamation! Magazine, visit:


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