Advent Talk

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Go and check out the Christians Discuss Forum for committed Christians at  http://www.christians-discuss.com

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar  (Read 30029 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ex3abnemployee

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 751
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2010, 01:29:58 PM »

I wish to thank Mrst53, for her conscience and apology. Some of the other posts here were far worse than hers in my opinion and sounded hateful and murderous to me, causing nausea, and leaving a sour taste behind. One may seek justice, pray for it, and even rejoice about it without being mean and nasty. It's just not necessary.


I realize I risk being called a coward and insulted further and told I deserve no answers and will get none from you because I post anonymously here, but I have wondered about this for a long time now. It came up again because Mrst53 wrote:

"Has anyone heard if TS has undergone surgery yet? If I were him and thank God I am not, but if I were, I would be asking Jesus Christ to forgive me and making a public apology to everyone I have ever wronged, just to make sure Jesus knew I meant business. Knowing I could die any moment and especially since I was undergoing surgery and my heart might not start up again.... hmmm- doesn't leave much choice to me"

That makes sense to me. Duane why do you think Tommy confessed he was wrong to you and apologized to you,and ven apologized to his wife and family about his improper relationship with you, but won't do that where others are concerned?
Because I didn't file criminal charges against him, that's why.
Logged
Duane Clem
It's not about religion, It's about a relationship

Cindy

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 567
  • "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good"
    • 3A Talk Forum
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2010, 09:07:12 PM »

I wish to thank Mrst53, for her conscience and apology. Some of the other posts here were far worse than hers in my opinion and sounded hateful and murderous to me, causing nausea, and leaving a sour taste behind. One may seek justice, pray for it, and even rejoice about it without being mean and nasty. It's just not necessary.


I realize I risk being called a coward and insulted further and told I deserve no answers and will get none from you because I post anonymously here, but I have wondered about this for a long time now. It came up again because Mrst53 wrote:

"Has anyone heard if TS has undergone surgery yet? If I were him and thank God I am not, but if I were, I would be asking Jesus Christ to forgive me and making a public apology to everyone I have ever wronged, just to make sure Jesus knew I meant business. Knowing I could die any moment and especially since I was undergoing surgery and my heart might not start up again.... hmmm- doesn't leave much choice to me"

That makes sense to me. Duane why do you think Tommy confessed he was wrong to you and apologized to you,and ven apologized to his wife and family about his improper relationship with you, but won't do that where others are concerned?
Because I didn't file criminal charges against him, that's why.

I think this was a good question, and think Mrst53 made a good point also. I appreciate your answer, but I'm not sure I understand your reasoning or why you think that, Duane. Dryden and Pickle have claimed there are many victims, and except for these two latest none have filed even one report or any criminal charges either. Even these 2 in the current case allege that it has been around 15 years since the alleged incidents and in all that time they never filed a report or any criminal charges and got no apology or confession either.You got your apology right away, and even multiple ones.
Logged

Murcielago

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1274
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2010, 11:10:35 PM »

As you read the stories of priests and monks who have been convicted in criminal court, or successfully sued in civil court for child molestation, you find that the large majority relate to men and women who come forward with charges dating to the 60's, 70's,  and 80's. Also, you find that there is lots of corroborating testimony given by people who never file.
Logged

Johann

  • Guest
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2010, 02:08:05 AM »

As you read the stories of priests and monks who have been convicted in criminal court, or successfully sued in civil court for child molestation, you find that the large majority relate to men and women who come forward with charges dating to the 60's, 70's,  and 80's. Also, you find that there is lots of corroborating testimony given by people who never file.

In my ministry I have people to whom this is true - within the Seventh-day Adventist church. I'd say a majority never file a complaint, even if they come forward 20-30 years later. But quite a number then only tell friends or their pastor - and possibly a grater number take the secret with them into their grave.
Logged

Bob Pickle

  • Defendants
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4061
    • Pickle Publishing
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2010, 06:09:33 AM »

Cindy, what percentage of women out there have been victims of abuse of some sort, or rape? What percentage actually report it to the police?

We had a convicted sex offender released in our community, and the law enforcement that led out in the public meeting prior to that stated that many or most incidents go unreported. He also cited statistics that many or most of those released do not re-offend. I then pointed out that those latter statistics only take into account the incidents that got reported, and thus the statistics about re-offending must be off.

I think we have covered this general point before about how often these things get reported to the police, and how soon, and I think it is time that you not bring it up again. To keep bringing iut up makes it sound like you are in denial of reality.
Logged

Cindy

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 567
  • "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good"
    • 3A Talk Forum
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2010, 06:21:28 AM »

Cindy, what percentage of women out there have been victims of abuse of some sort, or rape? What percentage actually report it to the police?

We had a convicted sex offender released in our community, and the law enforcement that led out in the public meeting prior to that stated that many or most incidents go unreported. He also cited statistics that many or most of those released do not re-offend. I then pointed out that those latter statistics only take into account the incidents that got reported, and thus the statistics about re-offending must be off.

I think we have covered this general point before about how often these things get reported to the police, and how soon, and I think it is time that you not bring it up again. To keep bringing iut up makes it sound like you are in denial of reality.

Bob, let's be real here. I acknowledge that many don't report crimes for various reasons. But I think it way past time that you learn to reply to what is being said or posted rather than having a knee jerk reaction, and replying to things which aren't said. Learn to listen! That is key to understanding and communicating.

1.You all want justice, but people need to report crimes to enable that. Am I really wrong in believing that, or saying that as I have in the past?

2. That wasn't even the issue here though. Duane said he thought he alone got a confession and apology as he didn't file a report/criminal charges. All I was trying to say, and meant was: well that doesn't really make sense to me as neither did the other alleged victims, and they didn't get a confession and apology because of that. So there has to be a different reason for it in my opinion.

Can't I comment without you going into attack mode?

Stop overreacting, taking things out of context, and so easily becoming offended, please.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 06:29:21 AM by Cindy »
Logged

Adam

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 741
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2010, 06:32:28 AM »

Cindy, what percentage of women out there have been victims of abuse of some sort, or rape? What percentage actually report it to the police?

We had a convicted sex offender released in our community, and the law enforcement that led out in the public meeting prior to that stated that many or most incidents go unreported. He also cited statistics that many or most of those released do not re-offend. I then pointed out that those latter statistics only take into account the incidents that got reported, and thus the statistics about re-offending must be off.

I think we have covered this general point before about how often these things get reported to the police, and how soon, and I think it is time that you not bring it up again. To keep bringing iut up makes it sound like you are in denial of reality.

Bob, let's be real here. I acknowledge that many don't report crimes for various reasons. But I think it way past time that you learn to reply to what is being said or posted rather than having a knee jerk reaction, and replying to things which aren't said. Learn to listen! That is key to understanding and communicating.

1.You all want justice, but people need to report crimes to enable that. Am I really wrong in believing that, or saying that as I have in the past?

2. That wasn't even the issue here though. Duane said he thought he alone got a confession and apology as he didn't file a report/criminal charges. All I was trying to say, and meant was: well that doesn't really make sense to me as neither did the other alleged victims, and they didn't get a confession and apology because of that. So there has to be a different reason for it in my opinion.

Can't I comment without you going into attack mode?

Stop overreacting, taking things out of context, and so easily becoming offended, please.



No you can't, and BTW I thought you was leaving again? Another lie?
Logged
When wealth is lost, nothing is lost; when health is lost, something is lost; when character is lost, all is lost. --
Billy Graham

Cindy

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 567
  • "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good"
    • 3A Talk Forum
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2010, 06:36:51 AM »

Cindy, what percentage of women out there have been victims of abuse of some sort, or rape? What percentage actually report it to the police?

We had a convicted sex offender released in our community, and the law enforcement that led out in the public meeting prior to that stated that many or most incidents go unreported. He also cited statistics that many or most of those released do not re-offend. I then pointed out that those latter statistics only take into account the incidents that got reported, and thus the statistics about re-offending must be off.

I think we have covered this general point before about how often these things get reported to the police, and how soon, and I think it is time that you not bring it up again. To keep bringing iut up makes it sound like you are in denial of reality.

Bob, let's be real here. I acknowledge that many don't report crimes for various reasons. But I think it way past time that you learn to reply to what is being said or posted rather than having a knee jerk reaction, and replying to things which aren't said. Learn to listen! That is key to understanding and communicating.

1.You all want justice, but people need to report crimes to enable that. Am I really wrong in believing that, or saying that as I have in the past?

2. That wasn't even the issue here though. Duane said he thought he alone got a confession and apology as he didn't file a report/criminal charges. All I was trying to say, and meant was: well that doesn't really make sense to me as neither did the other alleged victims, and they didn't get a confession and apology because of that. So there has to be a different reason for it in my opinion.

Can't I comment without you going into attack mode?

Stop overreacting, taking things out of context, and so easily becoming offended, please.



No you can't, and BTW I thought you was leaving again? Another lie?

I did leave. (days ago) Now I'm back. When your Mom or friends tell you that they are leaving now, do you call her or them liars when they return? If so?  HOW MEAN AND RUDE.

And what do you mean "No, you can't"? I can't comment without Bob going into attack mode? Again: "If so, HOW MEAN AND RUDE."
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 06:44:31 AM by Cindy »
Logged

tinka

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1495
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2010, 07:37:02 AM »

Cindy
There is no angle or direction you can come from to justify your own reasoning of the facts.  I read the letter posted and so have other intelligences. It seems your realization of what TS wrote is unstable and denial of your own perception. Your characterization of all things are the same. That is one thing I read into your episode of early years. You have that personallity and evidently can't change it. per personal conversation on mail.
Logged

waitingforjustice

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2010, 12:38:01 PM »

Cindy, Cindy, Cindy,

You do seem to have a bit of a "anger management" problem. This isn't the people you should aim that anger at. You should aim your anger at the abuser of all these young men who have had their trust in people and innocence taken away.

How would you feel if someone you looked up to, trusted and had faith in used their position to violate you? I can't imagine how that must feel. I have been fortunate in that area.

On the forum talking about ts's plea I wrote something that I wish you would go read.

Logged

ex3abnemployee

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 751
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2010, 06:37:19 AM »

I wish to thank Mrst53, for her conscience and apology. Some of the other posts here were far worse than hers in my opinion and sounded hateful and murderous to me, causing nausea, and leaving a sour taste behind. One may seek justice, pray for it, and even rejoice about it without being mean and nasty. It's just not necessary.


I realize I risk being called a coward and insulted further and told I deserve no answers and will get none from you because I post anonymously here, but I have wondered about this for a long time now. It came up again because Mrst53 wrote:

"Has anyone heard if TS has undergone surgery yet? If I were him and thank God I am not, but if I were, I would be asking Jesus Christ to forgive me and making a public apology to everyone I have ever wronged, just to make sure Jesus knew I meant business. Knowing I could die any moment and especially since I was undergoing surgery and my heart might not start up again.... hmmm- doesn't leave much choice to me"

That makes sense to me. Duane why do you think Tommy confessed he was wrong to you and apologized to you,and ven apologized to his wife and family about his improper relationship with you, but won't do that where others are concerned?
Because I didn't file criminal charges against him, that's why.

I think this was a good question, and think Mrst53 made a good point also. I appreciate your answer, but I'm not sure I understand your reasoning or why you think that, Duane. Dryden and Pickle have claimed there are many victims, and except for these two latest none have filed even one report or any criminal charges either. Even these 2 in the current case allege that it has been around 15 years since the alleged incidents and in all that time they never filed a report or any criminal charges and got no apology or confession either.You got your apology right away, and even multiple ones.
How can you say I got my apology right away, Cindy? It was YEARS after the abuse occured before I got that email. This is why I say you love to manipulate the facts and discredit people.
Logged
Duane Clem
It's not about religion, It's about a relationship

Cindy

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 567
  • "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good"
    • 3A Talk Forum
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2010, 08:41:33 AM »

I wasn't trying to discredit you by saying that you got your apology right away. I simply don't understand why he would apologize to you, and admit guilt, and not apologize to others while consistently saying he is innocent where they are concerned. You say it was because you didn't file charges against him, well neither did they, right? (with the current case being the exception) So that doesn't make sense to me, sorry. That was my main point.

It is my understanding  that the letter you refer to was not the first apology though, because that  letter itself refers to an earlier apology to you. That's why I referred to  multiple apologies. If I misunderstood about the time referred to and spoke in error when I said "You got your apology right away" while referring to that earlier apology, I  humbly apologize. It does now sound like I was wrong about that, thanks, and so I am sorry, Duane.



Quote from: written apology
From:     "Tommy Shelton"
To:     "Duane CLem"
Subject:     Re: Hello
Date:     Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:53:09 -0500

Hi Duane, I received your e-mail a couple of days ago. I guess you sent it longer ago than that, but I am not home several days a week. It sounds like you are doing what makes you the happiest - being involved in Gospel music. Duane, I have spent the last several years trying to straighten my life out.....You will remember that before I went to D.C. I apologized to you and told you that I wanted to make a new start and I have been trying to do that ever since. I've been honest with my wife, whom I almost destroyed with what I did....
Logged

Gailon Arthur Joy

  • Defendants
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1539
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2010, 10:11:39 AM »

Beleive me, Cindy, when I tell you that we have made significant efforts to get parties to file approrpiate complants...even to the point of arranging appointments with lawyers and filing appropaite preliminary reports of findings...and that process will continue!!!

Most christians are fundementally opposed to litigation as a basis for addressing serious wrongs, and that is a significant inhibitor. Arbitration, mediation or other alternative dispute resolutions require the cooperation of all the parties and here, again, we have a staumbling block as people like Danny want a hidden process to avoid public disclosure of just what a miscreant the "annointed on" is, but cannot get it!!! At least not from this sector...full disclosure is cathartic to the soul and should result in public confession and revival and reformation.

Did you notice that Palin's "son-in-law" to be even understood that fundemental principal??? But, the "Annointed one" still has not figured out that fundemental of christianity.

Thus the open warfare goes on with charge and countercharge and "BICKERING" over every minutiae!!!

It is too bad that real revival and reformation is so elusive!!! Maybe we all meet in hell in a thousand years and get it on one last time!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Logged

ex3abnemployee

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 751
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #43 on: July 18, 2010, 01:23:01 PM »

I wasn't trying to discredit you by saying that you got your apology right away. I simply don't understand why he would apologize to you, and admit guilt, and not apologize to others while consistently saying he is innocent where they are concerned. You say it was because you didn't file charges against him, well neither did they, right? (with the current case being the exception) So that doesn't make sense to me, sorry. That was my main point.

It is my understanding  that the letter you refer to was not the first apology though, because that  letter itself refers to an earlier apology to you. That's why I referred to  multiple apologies. If I misunderstood about the time referred to and spoke in error when I said "You got your apology right away" while referring to that earlier apology, I  humbly apologize. It does now sound like I was wrong about that, thanks, and so I am sorry, Duane.



Quote from: written apology
From:     "Tommy Shelton"
To:     "Duane CLem"
Subject:     Re: Hello
Date:     Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:53:09 -0500

Hi Duane, I received your e-mail a couple of days ago. I guess you sent it longer ago than that, but I am not home several days a week. It sounds like you are doing what makes you the happiest - being involved in Gospel music. Duane, I have spent the last several years trying to straighten my life out.....You will remember that before I went to D.C. I apologized to you and told you that I wanted to make a new start and I have been trying to do that ever since. I've been honest with my wife, whom I almost destroyed with what I did....

Well, I certainly don't remember an apology. I remember him trying to justify and smooth things over, but no apology.
Logged
Duane Clem
It's not about religion, It's about a relationship

Nosir Myzing

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 232
Re: "Sam" calls Tommy Shelton a liar
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2010, 08:56:05 AM »

I need to answer this here, but before I do and anybody starts getting ideas, let's get a couple of things straight beforehand and save yourself the time and effort of posting replies which have nothing to do with what I am posting about.

This is not about the current case underway this morning against Tommy Shelton.  This is not about Tommy Shelton's guilt or innocence when it comes to the allegations of child molestation you've all made about that. This is not about the issue of child molestation period. Duane Clem was of age, he has said over and over he wasn't raped and has never claimed he was molested. So it's not about that either.  I am addressing only his story and claims here.  To further set you straight this is not about Danny Shelton, defending him, nor about 3ABN and defending them. Duane Clem's and Tommy Shelton's problem had nothing to do with them either.

So don't be trying to address any o that with me because I won't dignify a reply to none of it.


I wasn't trying to discredit you by saying that you got your apology right away. I simply don't understand why he would apologize to you, and admit guilt, and not apologize to others while consistently saying he is innocent where they are concerned. You say it was because you didn't file charges against him, well neither did they, right? (with the current case being the exception) So that doesn't make sense to me, sorry. That was my main point.

It is my understanding  that the letter you refer to was not the first apology though, because that  letter itself refers to an earlier apology to you. That's why I referred to  multiple apologies. If I misunderstood about the time referred to and spoke in error when I said "You got your apology right away" while referring to that earlier apology, I  humbly apologize. It does now sound like I was wrong about that, thanks, and so I am sorry, Duane.



Quote from: written apology
From:     "Tommy Shelton"
To:     "Duane CLem"
Subject:     Re: Hello
Date:     Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:53:09 -0500

Hi Duane, I received your e-mail a couple of days ago. I guess you sent it longer ago than that, but I am not home several days a week. It sounds like you are doing what makes you the happiest - being involved in Gospel music. Duane, I have spent the last several years trying to straighten my life out.....You will remember that before I went to D.C. I apologized to you and told you that I wanted to make a new start and I have been trying to do that ever since. I've been honest with my wife, whom I almost destroyed with what I did....

Well, I certainly don't remember an apology. I remember him trying to justify and smooth things over, but no apology.

Well then maybe you better think back again, Clem. It appears to me you forget a lot of things, such as writing and an telling Tommy there was nothing to forgive and that he'd never hurt you, but this here forgetfulness isn't going to work, because many were in the know here. Those people have been very puzzled at your acts and words and your teaming up with the Pickle against Tommy, and even Carol, and accusing and blaming her after so many years. It stops right here as I'm calling a spade, a spade. Let God is our witness and Judge here.

There was an apology face to face before Tommy moved to Va.  He explained to those who he'd confessed to that he wanted his conscience clear and so he asked you  (with Carol's knowledge) to go out and have a sandwich. You went and Tommy apologized. From that time on Duane, it certainly did look like things were smoothed over. You called him periodically to ask for advice about different things. Carol didn't want you calling and Tommy told you that but you still called every once in awhile because you said that no matter where Tommy went, In your heart Tommy would always be your pastor. Throughout the years Duane, you were always his biggest defender against Dryden and others. After Tommy moved back to Kentucky you called again but talked to Carol that time and started telling Carol that you were working with a girl and trying to lead her to give her heart to the Lord but that you needed advice and help. Carol who had a hard time dealing with you Duane after everything, took the high road and  did what she could to help the girl, even going to visit her several times. This all took place over a few months and you and Carol were in contact back and forth. This was just prior to the pickledjoy thing and you remember how you told Pickle you were looking for news of Tommy when you came across his accusations, and entered the fray fightening mad and still defending Tommy. Remember?

 Now here is this supposed abuse back in the 80's and yet, all through the years Duane,  you remained friends with Tommy and his family and defended him, and them So what changed all that?

Nobody in the know about all a this is a Doctor, but it does appear the letter of apology, your second apology, was the catalyst Why? Because in it Tommy says because it was so hard on Carol that you two could no longer be even casual friends, so  it looks to us like you took it as some kind of rejection. And then of course after Pickle got hold of you, you began to claim you had to protect your ministry and your kids and couldn't have it come out and hurt that, so you had to speak up and out against Tommy publicly. The problem is, not only are you lying here about not remembering that apology, but you claimed Tommy apologized because you didn't file criminal charges, but Duane that was a worse lie.. You had no criminal charges to file. You were of age and a willing participant, and nothing which you have said occured between you and he is a crime. NOTHING. What charges would you file for crying out loud?
 
That's it, that's all I have to say. If you get angry I won't blame you, and I'll even understand,but for your own sake, try and not do or say anything in anger that you might later regret. 





Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up