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Author Topic: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?  (Read 4446 times)

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Artiste

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Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« on: March 30, 2012, 10:13:47 PM »

Will we be seeing a meteorite colliding with planet Earth causing the kind of devastation described with the third trumpet of Revelation 8:10,11?

Or were our church pioneers correct in interpreting this event figuratively and placing it in the past?

Or is there such a thing as dual application in Scripture?
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Johann

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Re: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2012, 12:46:26 AM »

Will we be seeing a meteorite colliding with planet Earth causing the kind of devastation described with the third trumpet of Revelation 8:10,11?

Or were our church pioneers correct in interpreting this event figuratively and placing it in the past?

Or is there such a thing as dual application in Scripture?

Our college Bible teacher, Edwin R. Thiele, gave around 1950 several instances of dual application of the prophecies in Revelation. So there is nothing new in accepting a dual application.

Here is a description of a meteorite crater I have seen in Norway.
Quote
It is now shown that the Gardnos-breccia was fommed by a meteorite impact about 650 million years ago.

Around 1963 a hydro-electric tunnel was driven through the breccia for about 3,5 km. The rock that was taken out forms now a large tip a little further up the valley towards the Garnås-farms. Here it is easy to collect rock samples of the breccia.

If one approaches on RV 7 from the south, a left turn is made 6 km north of Nesbyen where a sign points to "Garnås". The road crosses the river Dokkelvi. The tip can soon be seen on the left hand, almost like a dam across the valley. A gravel road goes straight ahead and then turns down towards the tip. The rock is now being crushed and used on building sites and roads.

A large stone block with an eyebolt in it is seen to the right at the toplevel of the tip. This is typical Gardnos-breccia! Do not remove samples from this block. You will find good samples down in the tip. When Dokkelvi river is dry, you obtain a good impression of the different degrees of pulverisation in the Gardnos-breccia in the waterwashed rock surfaces up and downstream. The use of hammer, crowbars og dynamite is forbidden as the watercourse is protected by law. Dokkelvi river runs along the southern side of the tip. A 2 km geological trail starts at the dump. A small exhibit in the Hallingdal Folkemuseum, Nesbyen, presents by photos and rock speciments the Gardnos structure.

HOW

The meteorite arrived with a speed of 20-30 km/sec and had a diameter of about 200 meters It hit a shollow sea with layers of black clay sediment on the bottom. An explosion equal to the strength of several atomic bombs broke through this and into the underlying solid rock, composed of gneis, granite etc.

The crater formed was about 700 m deep and about 5 km wide. The meteorite itself evaporated together with huge amounts of rock. The Gardnos-breccia was formed in the bottom of the crater by crushing and simultaneous rewelding of the rock.

The crater was immediately partly filled with rock fragments and stone dust which fell back. This, together with melted material, formed a rock called suevite which is found above the Gardnos-breccia. All this happened 650 million years ago, just before the Cambrian period.

The crater was then gradually filled to the top and burried by sediments such as gravel, sand and clay which later hardened to conglomerate, sandstone and shale.

During the ensuing millions of years eroding forces have removed the covering layers and most of the craterfill material, so that this bowl shaped sidevalley to the Hallingdalen, corresponds closely to the original crater. Traces of the sediments which once filled this crater are now only found in the wooded hills to the north.
Obviously not written by a creationist believing the earth was all created about 6000 years ago.
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Artiste

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Re: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2012, 03:18:52 PM »

I feel the dual application principle is very important.
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Bob Pickle

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Re: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2012, 08:25:41 PM »

Some of the language of the 3rd trumpet is repeated in the 5th trumpet, namely, a star is said to fall from heaven.

In the 5th trumpet, the star is given a key, which he then uses to open the bottomless pit. Not if a meteorite can operate a key, then maybe that star could be a meteorite. But if not, then how can it be a meteorite? And if it can't be a meteorite in the 5th trumpet, why must it be in the 3rd trumpet?

I think the falling of these stars refers to major losses by leaders of armies. That stars are often associated with armies is clear from many passages, since we have the word "host" sometimes referring to stars, and sometimes to armies.

Judges 5:20  They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.

So I think we can make a strong biblical case that the stars of the 3rd and 5th trumpets are military leaders or kings leading their armies to battle.
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tinka

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Re: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2012, 01:44:35 PM »

It seems to me the word "key" possible could be more of a key in symbolism and not an actual key --then the "star". I could be very wrong but that has puzzled me too. and my first instinct was
In other words the key will show how, when and what as we understand as the bottomless pit is opened for the evil hosts and are then bound to and no longer have the boundaries they have now??? In other words what action will happen as that takes place?  Brought on by the Star, but then it says called "wormwood", and right now I sort of forget the study on that word. I could be entirely wrong. But this is definitely interesting.

But on another thought won't that happen as the redeemed are already taken. Then again it says, 1/3 would be destroyed. guess I need to study that and like to hear other comments.
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Murcielago

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Re: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2012, 02:32:18 PM »

The last major strike was Chicxulub, an asteroid 6 miles in diameter that struck the Gulf of Mexico. It left a crater 180 kilometers across, and it is estimated that it created megatsunamis well over a mile high that swept across all the continents (there is some discussion that this may be the Noah flood.) At current ocean depths, it would have created a splash approximately 80,000 feet high, twice the height that commercial aircraft fly. It would also have resulted in devastating earthquakes around the world, and many volcanic eruptions. It is believed that it eliminated most living things on earth and left an environment hostile to life for decades.
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tinka

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Re: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2012, 06:53:28 PM »

OH my, that sounds worse then the flood, I am surprised that there is no Biblical account of that.

 I have to find some scripture that really stuck in my mind on the description of the coming and until now want to find where I read and it seemed to instill in me that this is not going to leave the earth exactly round. I remember reading then relating to what D. Bachelor said about every eye seeing and as he explained but it just did not settle just right because he explained as the world turned in 24 hrs then every eye would see. From what that one particular verse was stating. As I visioned it--it seemed to say the earthquakes and mountains were laid flat from the east to the west and the north and south and all of a sudden that description made me feel the earth was laid flat and then yes every eye would see at the same time. Then you realize that it says destruction as never was. I do have a big imagination and immediately visualize  maybe earth in different form what I read but could be wrong about this. But have no idea where I read that verse.  Changed computers and my Whole library does not work like it used to just putting in words when I want to find quickly.  But I really need to find it again to know if that is what it is saying.  Your post was unknown to me. although I know we have been hit with small but not that big. But again, if that happens it seems to be going to happen in the time line of actual coming and not an asteroid.
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Murcielago

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Re: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2012, 08:52:49 PM »

Tinka, the space shuttles orbited the earth at 120-600 miles in altitude, and their orbit speed was 17,580 miles per hour. They could circle the globe very quickly. I assume that during the second coming of Christ an approach from space would be seen well in advance, and with the rotation of the earth it is likely that it could be seen by everyone. Also, I suppose that he could make a quick orbit before final approach.
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Murcielago

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Re: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2012, 09:05:11 PM »

Tinka, you made an interesting observation in noting that Chixculub was not mentioned in the Bible. There have been many other global catastrophes that weren't mentioned. Some examples would be the 6 super volcanoes: Yellowstone, Toba, Aira, Tauro, Long Valley, and Valles Caldera.
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Johann

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Re: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2012, 12:02:27 AM »

You also have Hekla in Iceland, and a smaller volcano here which disrupted international air travel for a while and cost the airlines millions of dollars. We never know when the next eruption will occur. I have seen some of those eruptions and even walked on top of glowing lava. Reminds of descriptions found in Revelation.

Not far from us we see a portion of the greatest lava field in the world. Scientists estimate it flowed about 6,000 years ago. Creation or Flood? About 100 miles long. Now some of it is covered with farmland where earth has gradually blown in and covered the lava, but the lava is still there underneath. It cooled off and stopped when it reached the Atlantic Ocean which makes a spectacular beach where you still clearly see the lava. That beach is one of our favorite walks - on the sand in between the typical lava stones and rocks.
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christian

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Re: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2012, 12:49:06 AM »

Will we be seeing a meteorite colliding with planet Earth causing the kind of devastation described with the third trumpet of Revelation 8:10,11?

Or were our church pioneers correct in interpreting this event figuratively and placing it in the past?

Or is there such a thing as dual application in Scripture?
In the Spirit of Prophecy Ellen White says that when the great deep broke up water came from the inner earth and thrust great Stones into the air. Could it be that some of the so called meteor strikes are simply the large pieces of earth falling back to the surface? ---As for the duel meaning of the seven trumpets my guess is anything is possible but forensically there is very little scriptural evidence to support a duel meaning. What I personally believe is that the prophecies have been fulfilled and that the last day events and destruction of the earth are more of a manmade event. The Bible states that God is coming back to destroy them that destroy the earth. There is no external trip wire that is needed to propell us to the end of time. Already we have the doomsday device, multiple warheads, uncontrollable viruses and many other weapons of mass destruction. Evil mean have already shown there is no restaint to the havoc they will herald on the world. Selfish men and women that care nothing about the welfare of the human race will not need the asteroid to devastate the earth because long before that they will have caused the earths destruction.
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Johann

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Re: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2012, 03:18:06 AM »

In our part of the world the official Easter holidays last from Maudy Thursday till the Second Day of Easter - which is today, Monday. Most people are off from work and schools are closed. As a special Easter feature our main radio station has been reading through the book of Revelation with explanations these days. I have just listened to the final reading from chapter 19 to the end - on the Final Judgment. We heard how this has been described through medieval painting, the Catholic Church and the Reformers into modern literature on the atomic age.

It was good to hear the reading about the judgment and the second coming, the first and the second death and resurrection the destruction of the wicked and the entrance of the people of God into the New Jerusalem, and the New Earth. The speaker talked about this as the Great Controversy between Good and Evil culminating at the Second Coming. I could agree with the general picture because it fits in with our understanding, and yet I thought there is no other book available which gives such a vivid picture of the events as the book The Great Controversy. We do have Uriah Smith and other studies of Revelation, but the master outline is given in The Great Controversy.

All of the other details are mighty interesting, but not as essential for the average individual as that master outline.

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Murcielago

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Re: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2012, 11:45:09 PM »

Interesting thoughts, Christian. During the Falklands war I was living in Belize, a British colony next to Guatemala. While the Brits were busy with Argentina, Guatemala thought this would be a good time to acquire Belize. Lady Margaret made the threat of dropping some missiles (it was assumed they would be nuclear) into some of the semi-active volcanoes surrounding Guatemala City in the event of an invasion of Belize. I was a child at the time, but since then I have often thought of the disastrous potential of strategically placed nukes in areas of geological fragility such as Yellowstone.
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christian

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Re: Are the Seven Trumpets of Revelation in the Future?
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2012, 09:01:25 PM »

Interesting thoughts, Christian. During the Falklands war I was living in Belize, a British colony next to Guatemala. While the Brits were busy with Argentina, Guatemala thought this would be a good time to acquire Belize. Lady Margaret made the threat of dropping some missiles (it was assumed they would be nuclear) into some of the semi-active volcanoes surrounding Guatemala City in the event of an invasion of Belize. I was a child at the time, but since then I have often thought of the disastrous potential of strategically placed nukes in areas of geological fragility such as Yellowstone.
In all seriousness Murc, I have to say that because sometimes I write things and take the Devils advocate for the sake of argument. Sometimes we look at prophecy for a window to the future when the times we live in make the prophetic view unnecessary. We are currently living in a time when no less than three countries have the ability to destroy the world and at least three others would like to if given the opportunity. The current time we are living in are definitely the end of days, it is only Gods mercy and love for humanity, and His unwillingness to give us up that perserves our lives. Just look at the news and you daily see the love of God, when a tornado hits a building and no one is hurt or earthquakes and very little lose of life. We are living in the time of miracles that Abraham and others long to see and live in. We are looking for signs like some in Noah's day looked for the rain before they would believe. They saw the animals enter the ark the door close but only when it started to rain did they say to Noah, "we believe", "we believe", I know there is no reference of them saying that in the bible, I am using my prophetic powers LOL. We live in the miracle age which I can imagine was the same before the great flood and yet we are powerless because we should believe but we don"t.
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