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[Dedication]

Ulicia, you are correct in much of what you say.

Your error comes in your understanding what what the change in the IDL did.  When that change took place, the day that previously had been named Saturday (English) now was named Sunday (English).

I fully realize Samoa moved across the dateline.  The error is in the Adventist leadership in the area refusing to acknowledge that it was a legitimate move.  They have accepted the move for the rest of the days, and now essentially have two Fridays and no Sundays in their self imposed calendar.
--Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Preparation Day(Saturday), Sabbath (Sunday)--

As to the 180th longitude -- it was never official declared THE dateline by which the Islands were to align themselves, the only thing that was determined by the International Meridian Conference in 1884 was that Greenwhich, England was the Prime Meridian; the Pacific Islands were free to align themselves with the countries they had most to do with.   
When Samoa switched to the American side in 1892 they did it on the fourth of July -- in honor of America -- they had two 4th of July's that year .  So it's pretty obvious where the influence for the move came from.

So, Samoa simply moved back to their position before the human shift 110 years ago, when Sunday was on the exact same day for them as it is now.
   
Tonga never did change sides in regards to the dateline.   They were on the Australian side prior to 1884 and they remained consistently on the Australian side all along, yet still the Adventists chose to worship on Sunday. 
Of course Tonga had/has a rather strict Sunday law which made it very convenient to rationalize the 180th longitude as a reason to worship on Sunday. 

[Dedication]

I think J. N. Andrews' explanation is pretty helpful. God appointed the sun to rule the day. It is the sun that determines which day is which. The only question to deal with is what about where the beginning and the ending of each day meets.

J.N.Andrews wrote quite a bit on the dateline.
http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/pioneer_answers/dateline_Andrews.html

Basically he concludes that the dateline should run through the Bering Straits, which would place it at about 173W longitude.  His suggestion for the position of the dateline places Tonga and Samoa on the Australian side.

[Dedication]

This was written in the Signs of the Times Magazine  Nov. 26, 1906
Addressing the dayline controversy


"It will be seen that, under an apparent stickling for a conscientious exactness as to the true day, the enemy cleverly changes the issue of the question involved in the last message, from being one of worship and loyalty to God, or obedience to and worship of the church of Rome, under the symbol of the beast and his image, to that of a merely technical question of exactness, involving no principle of choice between two rival powers, and totally eliminating the Romish element, and of conflict with the beast and his image, which is the very essence of the prophetic warning. It completely changes the purport, scope, and nature of the last movement of the closing reform from a grand principle, and narrows it down to a technical quibble under the guise of a conscientious scruple for the honour of God....

"In this last great closing’ movement the issue is clear-cut—the beast and his image or the commandments of God. All that needs to be decided in any locality is, Which day does Rome honour as a sabbath? The answer is invariably, ” Sunday.” Then, in order to embrace the third angel’s message, loyalty to God calls upon us to keep the day which precedes the Roman festival, that is, Saturday. The question of exactness as to the place of the beginning and ending of the first day is a totally distinct question which has never been raised by divine authority nor introduced by Scripture. The present condition of things concerning the days of the week is accepted and recognised by all properly constituted authorities, and under this condition of affairs the issue can be clearly ascertained and decided, which is, God or Rome?” “first day or seventh day?” Keep the day immediately preceding that one which Rome honours, and you are safe in this matter."
 
By T. Whittle

[Johann]

At least this seems to be a serious matter to many of our fellow believers, who feel as if the General Conference will not listen to their appeals.

Do you have a good suggestion of how this matter could be solved?

[Dedication]

The General Conference has stated that it has never endorsed Sunday worship in the Pacific Islands.

See this report

Many of the Islanders, who are keeping the Sabbath on Saturday in spite of being oustersized from the church, as well as other Samoans living elsewhere, sent a letter to the president of the GC pleading for intervention.

Samoan news

The issue was sent back, by the president, to the South Pacific Division to look into it more fully.  Today is THE day when they are meeting to readdress the issues.   
We are waiting with baited breath as to the outcome.

[Dedication]

Even though the results of the Aug. 2 meeting haven't been announced there is little hope that change was made.  The members were basically the same ones that first instituted Sunday with little representation from the people who support that the Sabbath is still on Saturday, ( August 4,11,18,25, 2012 etc) They have come out with more "papers" talking about "the calendar changed" (which didn't happen) and about renaming of days (which never took place) and using the 180th meridian  (a fairly recent idea only 120 years old) as the ultimate foundation for the Sabbath (the 180th isn't recognized in scripture or even by governments as the ultimate determiner of the day), and quoting scripture as if Sunday were the seventh day.

The call for unity is made as if worship on Sunday is a unifying element in the Seventh-day Adventist Church!!!

As you may realize my personal reaction is shock that a segment of Seventh-day Adventism would advocate Sunday worship. 

To me it sounds like a foretaste of the end time crises we have all been warned against when scripture says the spirits of devils go forth to deceive the whole world and people will be separated into those who keep the commandments of God and worship the Creator who made heaven and earth (Rev. 14:7,12), and those who don't keep those commandments and worship the beast.
 

[Dedication]

Quoting from another thread:
"An entire Union has now gone on record in opposition to the World Church's General Conference in Session and revolted against a world church policy, a biblical standard and the NAD working policy."

The above concerns a different issue, but the same thing has happened in the Pacific Islands, only this time it's on a fundamental, established PILLAR of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual is a voted document of the Church that the General Conference in Session votes on and amends every five years. It is the official document of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, which clearly states which day is the Sabbath.
 

Church Manual Revised 2010 (18th Edition), p. 138. “The Sabbath holds a special place in our lives. The seventh day of the week, from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday (Lev. 23:32), is a gift from God, a sign of His grace in time.”

In addition to the Church Manual is Seventh-day Adventists Believe (An exposition of the fundamental beliefs of the SDA Church), 2005 Edition, pp. 296,  297 state:

“The Sabbath begins at sunset on Friday evening and ends at sunset Saturday evening (see Gen 3:15; cf. Mark 1:32). Scripture calls the day before the Sabbath (Friday) the preparation day (Mark 15:42) – a day to prepare for the Sabbath so that nothing will spoil its sacredness. Similarly, they should mark its close by uniting in worship towards the close of the Sabbath on Saturday evening, requesting God’s presence and guidance through the ensuring week.”

And remember -- August 4 will be Saturday on BOTH sides of the legally recognized dateline.  August 5, Sunday is NOT recognized as the Sabbath by the official Seventh-day Adventist Church as voted by the General Conference in session.

[Bob Pickle]

I share your concern. Please keep us posted on how the meeting turned out.

[Gregory]

Ulicia, August 4, 2012 will be Saturday on eitehr side of the International DateLine anyplace int eh world.

Let us imagine that oen could stant astride the IDL, with one foot on one side and the other foot ont he other side.  In this case, the right foot might be standing on Saturday August 4 and the left foot would be standing on Sunday, August 4.  That is the way that the IDL works.Now let us imagine that while you are standing with one foot on saturday the 4th and the other foot on Sunday the 5th,  Someone said:  Let us move the IDL.

That move now takes place, and both feet are now standing on Sunday the 5th.  The right foot speaks and says:  I was standing on Saturday.  You now call this day Sunday.  This day that you now call Sunday is the 7th day of my week.  The Bible says worship on the 7th day.  I will continue to worship on the 7th day, even though you now call the 7th day, Sunday.

[Dedication]

Ulicia, August 4, 2012 will be Saturday on eitehr side of the International DateLine anyplace int eh world.

Let us imagine that oen could stant astride the IDL, with one foot on one side and the other foot ont he other side.  In this case, the right foot might be standing on Saturday August 4 and the left foot would be standing on Sunday, August 4.  That is the way that the IDL works.Now let us imagine that while you are standing with one foot on saturday the 4th and the other foot on Sunday the 5th,  Someone said:  Let us move the IDL.

That move now takes place, and both feet are now standing on Sunday the 5th.  The right foot speaks and says:  I was standing on Saturday.  You now call this day Sunday.  This day that you now call Sunday is the 7th day of my week.  The Bible says worship on the 7th day.  I will continue to worship on the 7th day, even though you now call the 7th day, Sunday.

That is incorrect.  If you were standing astride the international dateline, one foot would be Saturday Aug. 4th the other would be Sunday, August 5. 
The names and calendar dates DO NOT CHANGE.  That somehow August 4th is now Sunday is the misconception that is being implied by the Sunday keepers in their claim that the calendar changed.   It is not reality or scientific.
August 4th this year is Saturday, the seventh day of the week, all around the world.

Also the IDL does not cross land for a reason -- it would be mass confusion, that's why it zigzags.

Were you to fly to Australia (from America) next Thursday, would you refuse to go to church with Australian SDA's the next day (Saturday in Australia) because the next day is your Friday back in America-- would you go to church on Sunday because it is the seventh day of YOUR week?
 

[Gregory]

You are correct.  I made a typo of veryserious nature when I said each foot woudl be on August the 4th.  I knew better.  I simply did not catch it.  Thank you for your correction.  You are correct.

Yes, as I stated, August 4, is Saturday everywhere in the world, that uses English names.

I am deeply red in the face for the major typo that you caught and I did not.  My typo goes against everything that I have been saying.

[Dedication]

Sorry, I see now that later you did say it was Sunday August 5

I also added a sentence while you were typing.

"Were you to fly to Australia (from America) next Thursday, would you refuse to go to church with Australian SDA's the next day (Saturday in Australia) because the next day is your Friday back in America-- would you go to church on Sunday because it is the seventh day of YOUR week?"

Anyway, glad you do realize the calendar did not change!

[Gregory]

Ulicia asked:

"Were you to fly to Australia (from America) next Thursday, would you refuse to go to church with Australian SDA's the next day (Saturday in Australia) because the next day is your Friday back in America-- would you go to church on Sunday because it is the seventh day of YOUR week?"

  Your question is valid.

I have lived in a country on the other side of the dateline.  In my travels to that country, I have crossed crossed the dateline a number of times.  So, in crossing the dateline, I have had to deal with the question that you have asked.

My position then and now is: I will keep the Sabbath as it is kept on that side of the dateline, because the day we call Saturday, in English is the 7th day of the week.  The Bible Command is to keep the 7th day of the week.


The situation in the Pacific Islands is a special situation.  It arose because, as you have pointed out, the IDL does not run in a straight line from pole to pole.  Rather, in the case of these islands, it deviates (I am not looking at a map, but I thilnk it deviates to the West.).  Some of that deviation has been a change in recent times.    I think that Samoa is a recent change.  Correct me if I am wrong.  In any case, that change resulted in what the islanders had called Saturday (English) and was the 7th day of their week was now changed and that same 7th day in the cycle was now called Sunday.

The Protestants accepted that change and began worshiping on that new Sunday and which stated the new week.  e.g. it became the 1st day.  Some of the SDAs, correctly observed that the Biblical command is to observe the 7th day as was observed by the Jews.   [NOTE:  I do not mean to observe it in the same manner.] 

That is exactly where the Bible is.   Christ observed the Sabbath.  That 7th day cycle continues today in what is commonly called in English, Saturday.  The exception is in certain Pacific Islands.  The 7th day that was established by Christ, continues today in a cycle in which that 7th day is now called Sunday (English). 

So, the question has arisen:  Which day should a Sabbath-keeper keep.  Some SDAs have gone one way.  Others have gone the other way.

For me, I personally have gone with keeping the same 7-day cycle that Christ Kept.  In most of the world, that day in called in English, Saturday.  In certain Pacific Islands, that day is now called Sunday.

While I say follow Christ and the Bible, I acknowledge that some see it differently and I do not criticize them.

As I have said earlier,  There are real problems with those who live above the Artic Circle.  Actually there are three (3) differing practices aong SDAs on when to begin keeping the Saggath.  I will list them again:
a)  From sundown to sundown, local time--the majority view.
b) Sundown inJersulam--a minority view.
c) from 6 PM to 6 PM--a minority view, although this is the one that early SDAs kept.  Read our history on this one.

[Dedication]

The only hitch to that reasoning is that Christ did not live in the Pacific Islands.
So we can't say that the Islanders who keep Sunday are keeping the same day Christ kept.

I fully agree with your first statements --

"My position then and now is: I will keep the Sabbath as it is kept on that side of the dateline, because the day we call Saturday, in English is the 7th day of the week.  The Bible Command is to keep the 7th day of the week."

The dateline places Samoa in the eastern hemisphere along with Australia.

The 180th is purely arbitrary and not authorized by scripture nor governments.   The IDL zig zags way to the east of 180th  to keep Siberia in the eastern hemisphere.  Then way  to the west of the 180th around Islands near Alaska, then once again to the east of 180th  around Islands that deal mainly with Australia and New Zealand.

All those Islands east of the 180th  that either remained on the west side of IDL  (Australian side) like Tonga or returned to the Australian side (Samoa, Tokelau and The Republic of Kiribati) were originially on the Australian side.
Samoa shifted in 1892 with two July 4ths that year, and now in  2011, shifted back. 

What if J.N.Andrews (an early Adventist pioneer) is right and the dateline should run straight down through the Bering Straits?  That would be approximately at 168 longitude and would place Samoa, Tonga etc. in the eastern hemisphere.

Or what if Jerusalem, not Greenwiche England, is the center of God's earth marking the Prime Meridian, that would place the dateline east of Alaska, making Alaska one day ahead of the rest of N. America (where they were before America purchased Alaska)

[Gregory]

Ulicia said:

The only hitch to that reasoning is that Christ did not live in the Pacific Islands.
So we can't say that the Islanders who keep Sunday are keeping the same day Christ kept.

Once we accept the establishement of the IDL, we can trace that weekly cycle back to the time of Christ and the day that Christ kept.

You are correct that the IDL is purely an arbitrary decision and the Bible says nothing about such.  That is the reason why some of the differences exist within the SDA Church.  E.g.  Those who believe we should keep it according to the time in Jersulam.

To me the Bible is clear on the issue of sundown to sundown which I apply to a local time basis.  The other isues that people raise and you have mentioned, I generally donot believe are spoken to in the Bible.  IOW, I will suggest thaqt this is one of those issues that is between us and the leading of God.