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[Snoopy]

Why can't you ever simply accept some responsibility for a change?  Rather than trying to crawl into my brain and telling me how to think or feel?

What change? It is a fact that I can't read his mind, and therefore there is no way for me to know which page out of a lengthy piece contains the information he wants me to read.

I have to face this kind of thing every now and then. For example, someone who believes in keeping Sunday may not be able to explain why we should keep Sunday, and so they ask me to read some thick book on the topic without telling me where in that thick book is to be found the answer to my question. I can't read their mind. I'm not going to read the whole thing and try to guess what part answers the question(s) that I raised.

If Johann thinks the answer is somewhere in the lengthy piece, it is his responsibility, not mine, to point out where.

Of course.   I know.  Bob Pickle is never wrong.

[Bob Pickle]

Why can't you ever simply accept some responsibility for a change?  Rather than trying to crawl into my brain and telling me how to think or feel?

What change? It is a fact that I can't read his mind, and therefore there is no way for me to know which page out of a lengthy piece contains the information he wants me to read.

I have to face this kind of thing every now and then. For example, someone who believes in keeping Sunday may not be able to explain why we should keep Sunday, and so they ask me to read some thick book on the topic without telling me where in that thick book is to be found the answer to my question. I can't read their mind. I'm not going to read the whole thing and try to guess what part answers the question(s) that I raised.

If Johann thinks the answer is somewhere in the lengthy piece, it is his responsibility, not mine, to point out where.

Of course.   I know.  Bob Pickle is never wrong.

Not so. I think I was wrong in stating that the 1895 quote was about the ordination of deaconesses. It certainly sounded like it was, and it has been characterized that way, but I think I was wrong. I now believe that that quote is talking about Christian Help workers.

[Johann]

Why can't you ever simply accept some responsibility for a change?  Rather than trying to crawl into my brain and telling me how to think or feel?

What change? It is a fact that I can't read his mind, and therefore there is no way for me to know which page out of a lengthy piece contains the information he wants me to read.

I have to face this kind of thing every now and then. For example, someone who believes in keeping Sunday may not be able to explain why we should keep Sunday, and so they ask me to read some thick book on the topic without telling me where in that thick book is to be found the answer to my question. I can't read their mind. I'm not going to read the whole thing and try to guess what part answers the question(s) that I raised.

If Johann thinks the answer is somewhere in the lengthy piece, it is his responsibility, not mine, to point out where.

Of course.   I know.  Bob Pickle is never wrong.

Not so. I think I was wrong in stating that the 1895 quote was about the ordination of deaconesses. It certainly sounded like it was, and it has been characterized that way, but I think I was wrong. I now believe that that quote is talking about Christian Help workers.

Thank you, Bob. I think with this, one of our greatest problems solved

[Bob Pickle]

Why can't you ever simply accept some responsibility for a change?  Rather than trying to crawl into my brain and telling me how to think or feel?

What change? It is a fact that I can't read his mind, and therefore there is no way for me to know which page out of a lengthy piece contains the information he wants me to read.

I have to face this kind of thing every now and then. For example, someone who believes in keeping Sunday may not be able to explain why we should keep Sunday, and so they ask me to read some thick book on the topic without telling me where in that thick book is to be found the answer to my question. I can't read their mind. I'm not going to read the whole thing and try to guess what part answers the question(s) that I raised.

If Johann thinks the answer is somewhere in the lengthy piece, it is his responsibility, not mine, to point out where.

Of course.   I know.  Bob Pickle is never wrong.

Not so. I think I was wrong in stating that the 1895 quote was about the ordination of deaconesses. It certainly sounded like it was, and it has been characterized that way, but I think I was wrong. I now believe that that quote is talking about Christian Help workers.

Thank you, Bob. I think with this, one of our greatest problems solved

In what way, Johann? I've already pretty much acknowledged that before. The current problem as far as I can tell is that you don't want to acknowledge that Christian help workers are not ministers in the sense that that same 1895 quote used the word "minister."

[Stan]

If a minister is ordained in Japan and then goes to work in France, the church in France must recognize this ordination.

SDAminister

I do not think this is true.  If a Ordained female Pastor from the Columbia Union, moves  to the Union just south, they would be given Commissioned Ministerial Credentials.

This is a long thread, perhaps someone has already stated this.

[Daryl Fawcett]

What about in the case of a female Conference President, or even a female Union President?

How would that work at Spring and Fall GC meetings, etc?

[Stan]

If the Union does not recognize female ordination, they could not be hired for that position by the Union.

[Daryl Fawcett]

But in a Conference that does and also in a Union that does and each elects their own female presidents, will the GC recognize them at their Spring and Fall Annual meetings?

[Stan]

Interesting situation...  I would imagine they would have both voice and vote. I do not think they would be the only females there, as their are female treasurers, I do not think, (And I could be wrong)  that it is only Presidents at those meetings.

[SDAminister]

If a minister is ordained in Japan and then goes to work in France, the church in France must recognize this ordination.

SDAminister

I do not think this is true.  If a Ordained female Pastor from the Columbia Union, moves  to the Union just south, they would be given Commissioned Ministerial Credentials.

This is a long thread, perhaps someone has already stated this.

And what if her local church in that Union refuses to vote her in as a local elder?

[Gregory]

Stan said:

I do not think this is true.  If a Ordained female Pastor from the Columbia Union, moves  to the Union just south, they would be given Commissioned Ministerial Credentials.

Correct.

Recognition of ordination would apply in the following situation:  If the employing organizaiton wishes to grant the credentials of an ordained milnister, it could do so based on the prior ordination.  It would not have to publicly ordain again.

Recognition of the prior ordination would not prevent the issuance of Commissioned Minister credentials.

[Stan]

Do churches still have the Pastor be one of the elders still?

More often the not the church approves the Pastor before they are assigned.  It has not always been that way in most conferences. 

[Stan]

I find the title of this thread rather deceiving.

[Bob Pickle]

Do churches still have the Pastor be one of the elders still?

More often the not the church approves the Pastor before they are assigned.  It has not always been that way in most conferences.

If the local pastor is a licensed or commissioned minister, they cannot function as such if their local church does not elect them as a local elder.

[Stan]

OK thanks, I forgot about that Bob.