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Author Topic: Understanding the 144,000 versus the Great Multitude.  (Read 4201 times)

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tinka

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Re: Understanding the 144,000 versus the Great Multitude.
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2017, 05:10:31 PM »

Thank you for your response. Since first realizing and hearing of the 144,000 I have to say it was a devestating doctrine for me and realized I could not be in that small number only taken. No way could I make that, I was young then and that made me very disheartened. I realized that since the beginning of time many multitudes would be taken but in these last days only a few would be saved with this theory Then I discovered it was a doctrine that the SDA was not in unity with. (literal, symbolic) now which is it.?? Still did not make sense and did not come full circle. Then the study began years ago. I have been very satisfied with your same thoughts and outcome of the last day messengers and their works as you commented on but still did not come full circle with complete feeling of "no doubt". more and more study in search of this matter. All evangelists have made study but all different. The above posts  I made are i imagine hard to follow as you can't put all out there I think it would take years as long as I studied. lol My mind is very open to this study as I feel somewhere there is quite a simplicity made known that I am sure EWG was given and therefore sound doctrine.

So now I dig out my grandma's old books and finally come across articles that solidify the simplicity and all the rest I find is just a problem with timing and sequence of tribulation words and the "loud cry" brought on by the "Holy Spirit" and a great movement coming from that. Of course human instrument will be of use also as we both understand from your comments and that I know with out doubt also. But that does not exactly explain the 144,000 yet.

One of the books I find is comments by J.N. Loughborough.  Of course then, the SDA REFORMERS still twist his words into still the above doctrine of only 144,000 living and going on this last day. Now here is where Loughborough states what happened to truth. I am now going to quote exactly as I read.

The presentation of the following pages to our people I deem to be in harmony with what is stated in "Testimonies for the church." vol. 7, page 288. etc.etc.
Of the benefit to be derived from the bringing of such things to the attention of our people, we read from the pen of Sister E.G. White, in the South African Missionary of February 20, 1911. We have nothing to fear from the future, except we shall forget the way the Lord has led us, and His teachings in our past history

In reference to the subject matter of this book--the sealed 144,000 I have been greatly moved by the Spirit of God to write and publish the facts as to how the sealing message was obtained-- not only from the Bible but by direct instruction in visions of Sister E>G> White, also as to how the message was received and taught by our ministers and people down to the year 1894 when the "New light" theory found its advocate in one who afterwords apostatized from the faith, and died without seeing the fulfillment of his expectation that he would live to the end of time, and hence be one of the 144,000. His claim was that later testimonies of Sister White taught that all the 144,000 would be made up of those who had never died.

When I found that some were teaching that "all of the 144,000 who will be sealed are now living." I thought it time that some one should speak, and show that it is not the manner of God's prophets to make positive statements at one, and afterwards teach entirely contrary to them.  Such surely was not the course of Bible prophets.  The whole of this "new light" is produced by taking out of their connection and away from the things of which they are spoken, and giving them a general application, as you will see when we come to the analysis of this matter.
I presented the substance of this tract in two discourses on the Stockton camp ground.  Those who heard the discourses, requested that it might be published so that they could have the reading of it.l  As the subject is one on which there is some controversy, I thought our publishers would not wish to pring the matter in their papers, or take the responsibility of publishing it in any form.  J.N. Loughborough, Lodi, California, JUly 1 1916

This is for the benefit of all Seventh Day Adventist who believe in the Advent Me3ssage to know the original teachings.

Notwithstanding these facts in the testimonies presented it is still urged by some, that what is said in "Great Controversy." page 649. shows that the 144,000 will be composed wholly of those who never died.  Let us see what is said, and the condition under which the said statement occurs.
"Thses having been translated from the earth, from among the living are counted as "the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb" "These are they which come our of great tribulation, they have passed through the tribulation  such as never was since there was a nation."

Now back to me again, Loughborough knew that even the ones that gave the 3rd angels message and died giving and raised in "special resurrection" still would not be "of" the 144,000. EGW commented many times of friends giving the 3rd angels message  that died would be "with" the 144,000 and not counted as "one of".  But they would have special resurrection.  Those  (first fruits) were taken and surround the throne day and night taken as first fruits to heaven with the Son at the ascension.

They were prefigured. ( Represented of something beforehand)   Sealed and in past tense of Rev. all the qualification of those martyrs are given to us as examples that previously went thru same. Our time is called the time of Jacobs Trouble coming up and in it starting as prophecy fulfilling right now. 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 07:28:17 PM by tinka »
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tinka

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Re: Understanding the 144,000 versus the Great Multitude.
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2017, 07:13:45 PM »

 The 144,000 Without Guile.--One of the marked features in the "representation" of the 144,000 is that in their mouth there was found no guile. The Lord has said, "Blessed is the man . . . in whose spirit there is no guile." They profess to be children of God, and are represented as following the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. They are prefigured before us as standing on Mount Zion, girt for holy service, clothed in white linen, which is the righteousness of the saints. But all who follow the Lamb in heaven will first have followed Him on earth, in trustful, loving, willing obedience, followed Him not fretfully and capriciously, but  confidently, truthfully, as the flock follows the shepherd. . . .  {3SM 424.2} .... and the first fruits that went to heaven at the ascension did that for our example. and also their works do follow them again as the 3rd angels messages was sounded of 1844.  Now that age will have their special resurrection just before the coming. After years it all seems to finally be quite simply once all is in place and not just picked over here and there to all different theories. The rest of story after reading L.N. Loughborough is that I have what they call an index book of all the Bible and each text used by EGW in every aspect or context of how many times she used each bible verse in all her books. When you do this it leads straight to the truth of the context she writes about with no doubt. I feel it's quite amazing. and that understanding was given to her when the sealing message was delivered. But later confusion made it tabu to SDA to this day still divided over literal and symbolism.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 07:19:01 PM by tinka »
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tinka

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Re: Understanding the 144,000 versus the Great Multitude.
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2017, 05:33:07 AM »

Here is interesting thought also. Great Controversy p. 665.

"Nearest the throne are those who were once zealous in the cause of Satan, (but who, plucked as brands from the burning,) Now who would that be if not the very jews that speaks of the crucifixtion of the Son of God cursed for the burning!) ...but who, plucked as brands from the burning having followed their Saviour with deep, intense, devotion. These would be the "firstfruits" taken at the ascension would be my thought for this era as only they could sing "the song of Moses" for only their experience.

Next are those who perfected Christian characters in the midst of falsehood and infidelity, those who honored the law of God when the Christian world declared it void, and the millions, (of all ages,) who were martyred for their faith.  That era would be the time of "The greatest tribulation of 1260 years that ended and they would sing a " New Song"

And now: our era - And beyond is the "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues... before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands. and they sing the "song Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb"

Do we still have to wonder who the 144,000 is and the prefigured way of God"s plan is in all era's? I am just very satisfied and happy that it's now greatly possible I can be in the great multitude brought by the messengers of all eras that their works do follow them and to our day the writings of His chosen vessel that complied. I am happy for this. This may not be perfect but I feel pretty close. The perfect study would be to take index book just in revelation only and copy all her writings in context pertaining only to the 144,000 and that would be perfect truth.

I still would like any comments where things could be error for thought.



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