Theology Category > Doctrinal Discussions
Understanding the 144,000 versus the Great Multitude.
reddogs:
So we see in Revelation 14:3-4:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
The 144,000 are distinct and more than just because they make it alive through the last days. For example the thief on the cross may wear a white robe when he gets to heaven but will not have the special distinctions which set aside the 144,000. They have a special relationship with the Lamb, and they are sealed with a special name. They also sing a special song and "stand with a wonderful truth right before the whole world" right at the end and prepare the world for the Second Coming of Christ
So then in Revelation 7:9 after the 144,000 we read:
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
These are not number like the 144,000 and are from all "all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues", these are the many saints from across the ages, resurrected like Moses versus translated living like Enoch.
tinka:
EGW did not go into great complex detail because she understood simply the details of the 144,000. SDA's have long been in confusion of this because of explainable timing sequence that has been construed from lack of carefully reading. It's been my biggest question of why this confusion other then people coming to the conclusion that this is literal number or symbolic of the future. This should never have been in question. But understanding when the greatest time of tribulation for his "firstfruits" is documented is the biggest part of the confusion. I loaned an old time book out and tomorrow will try to pick it up so I can quote it exactly where the time of the greatest tribulation that EGW records is not in the future like we all have been preached to about, but has already happened with the martyrs and the first fruits that ascended with him already in heaven. These are the number already dressed in white with pomegrants and bells on their robes. Actually, the redeemed ask " who are these" They were the messengers that God would send to bring in the redeemed that has followed Jesus etc. etc. and in the temple that EGW was not permitted to see. These messengers all are those 12,000 from each tribe who have helped bring in the multitude of millions as they had a work to do also. States -caught up with the 144,000 already standing on the sea of glass where they will be awarded great rewards for bringing in the redeemed. It's just that simple as to all the years of SDA split in understanding and even our evangelists still think all is future. In past tense the 144,000 were already sealed and taken as first fruits to heaven. These 144,000 are in a living state as they were once martryed. It's states it right there in Revelation. This is why that anytime EGW speaks of someone passing like with Mrs. Hastings - it is always with the word " with" she will be with the 144,000. Never does she use the word "of" cause that would be subtraction and cause even more confusion of thinking you cannot make that number. The 144,000 does multiply the multitude. Now those standing on the sea of glass will be thanked by the redeemed as they reaped in the multitude by their work of messengers according to God's counsel. Read in the book "Story of Redemption" Very plain God and His Son into counsel for a plan and to hold the 4 winds until all can be sealed by the 3rd angels message in this era. He will send his (already sealed messengers that he told and showed John about). I will try to put the "quote" of the "greatest tribulation" in the truth about the timing sequence tomorrow when I retrieve my book. Our future tribulation is called the "time of trouble". So, many theorys to cause impossible perfected bumping system to make that number!! Thats whats wrong with wrong theory. and..she explained it is not important to know who the 144,000 is of which I agree. But the sequence and the work of it does give truth and no stress of it. Jesus is not in heaven with out many that already walked the earth. all have jobs and I am so thankful - he delayed until the 3rd angels message was given to all the world so the sealing of Sabbath in this era could be restored and fair to our generation.
tinka:
Oh Yes, and only those know the song of Moses! and yes they were already redeemed from the earth. The rest is God's mystery where these messengers (their work) were sent that would bring in the redeemed- the multitude.
tinka:
From The Bible Handbook by S.N. Haskel put out edition in 1919 on page 17 and under title Signs of Christ's Coming in the Heavens, It describes the time of the great tribulation time frame that makes a great difference where you choose or think of the time of great tribulation sequence where you start to put the 144,00 time frame at.
"Quote" Tribulation ceased about 1776. The 1260 years of Dan. 7:25 began 5:38 A.D. and ended 1798. The signs in the sun and moon were to be seen between the end of the tribulation and 1798 A.D. An account of the fulfillment is given in Websters Dictionary 1809 edition as follows-----
Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of the 1260 years--
Mark 15: 24 Darkened in the days, but after the tribulation.
So this is the time frame I believe of the martyrs that ascended from that era that went thru great tribulation. They are in a living state.
tinka:
Selected Messages Book Page 306 The ascension of Christ where he takes a multitude with him as" First fruits."
As Christ ascends while in the act of blessing, His disciples, as army of angels encircle Him as a cloud, Christ takes with Him the multitude of captives. He will Himself bring to the Father the first fruits of them that slept, as an evidence that He is conqueror of death and the grave. At the portals of the city of God, an innumerable company of angels await His coming. As they approach,-- the escorting angels address the company at the gate in triumphent tones.---
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version