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[Johann]

Jesus called a number of male disciples. Why did He not call women? Could that be because females are more religiously inclined, so they came by themselves?

[sonshineonme]

You know Johann, after thinking about your question, I think you might be on to something.

You think about women who tend to be less inhibited and more inclined to go after what they believe no matter what unashamed of needing something outside of themselves and not worrying about how it looks, sometimes men hold back and wait (not sure what they wait for  ) but need some "pushing" for a lack of a better word ( I think the women know what I mean, and probably the men too), help, encouragement, or maybe even another male to show them the way is OK to travel (step on out without the waiting and seeing part) and does not make them less of a man, weak or needy of something.

I could be wrong of course (it's always good to throw that in when talking male/female difference as to not insult either sex or insinuate a sexist bias).  There is a reason we see more women at church then men, and it's not because there happen to be more females on the planet! It would be interesting to discuss our opinions of what those reasons could be?

In the age we live now, we can openly discuss, engage, embrace and learn of the differences between men and women - and these differences are a good thing (in spite of the times I wonder WHY WOULD GOD PUT MEN AND WOMEN TOGETHER  because of those differences) and I would guess that it's been an issue since the beginning of time.

One thing I have learned with really getting in there and understanding, appreciating and using these differences the way God intended (say in a marriage) is that you learn more about love and acceptance, support and respect that probably any other relationship. It's no easy thing to do, and I'm sure it's one of the top reasons marriages don't make it.

Any other ideas?

[Artiste]

Jesus called a number of male disciples. Why did He not call women? Could that be because females are more religiously inclined, so they came by themselves?

I had the impression that women had a well defined role in Jewish society at the time.  The women were in evidence as supporters of Jesus' ministry and in hospitality roles, etc.

Was it Paul who said a little later that women should not be teaching men?

[Artiste]

I think we forget in the United States that women have a more subservient role in other cultures even in our enlightened age.

I am reminded of this on a regular basis because of the multi-cultural environments I have to function in from time to time...

Johann--perhaps women have a more liberated role in Scandinavia also?  (Is Iceland in Scandinavia?)

[Servant]

This is a thought provoking thread... Yesterday I received a very funny forward of a comedian whose entire act was about male/female brain differences.

Can't wait to see where this leads. 

[Johann]

I was wondering when someone would suggest my question should never have been asked 

[Johann]

Jesus called a number of male disciples. Why did He not call women? Could that be because females are more religiously inclined, so they came by themselves?

I had the impression that women had a well defined role in Jewish society at the time.  The women were in evidence as supporters of Jesus' ministry and in hospitality roles, etc.

Was it Paul who said a little later that women should not be teaching men?

Why not give us some more of your impressions, Artiste? Some claim that women were subdued in the Jewish society, then we also hear that the role of women was far superior in the Jewish society at that time that what was seen in other societies then. So, what did Paul really mean?

[Johann]

I think we forget in the United States that women have a more subservient role in other cultures even in our enlightened age.

I am reminded of this on a regular basis because of the multi-cultural environments I have to function in from time to time...

Johann--perhaps women have a more liberated role in Scandinavia also?  (Is Iceland in Scandinavia?)

In some respect women have a more liberated role in Iceland than anywhere else. Iceland elected the first female president in the world. She is not the president any longer, but she is still alive. Her name is Vigdís Finnbogadóttir.

Strictly speaking the Scandinavian peninsula consists of Norway, Sweden, and the northwestern part of Finland. Then Denmark was also included in the term Scandinavia. Later the term Scandinavia has been used of the Nordic Countries which include Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Faeroe Islands, and Aaland. Certain members of the parliaments  of these countries form a Nordic Parliament and there is also a form of a common government. Aaland and Faeroe Islands have a form or self-rule, but Aaland belongs to Finland, and the Faeroe Islands to Denmark.

There are still certain cultural differences. When I was 14 I lived on a farm in Central Iceland, but we were moving to a distant farm our church had just bought to establish an academy. So I saddled my mare and took off early in the morning. We made some stops when I ate my lunches and my horse fed on the gras slopes by the highway. Towards bedtime we rode to a farm near the highway, and I was greeted very friendly. When I had told my story and said where I was going the farmer told me where to put my horse for the night, his wife served me supper and showed where the guest room was. After breakfast in the morning my mare and I strolled on towards our destination.

It seems to me that Icelanders do not understand the term, "there was no room at the inn".  They always find room somewhere for an unexpected visitor.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Should we also create a Sabbath School forum here at Advent Talk?

[Johann]

Should we also create a Sabbath School forum here at Advent Talk?

I wouldn't vote against it.

[Daryl Fawcett]

This topic is now in the newly created Sabbath School forum of Advent Talk.

[Ozzie]

Should we also create a Sabbath School forum here at Advent Talk?

It's good to have a Sabbath School Forum in here. There are people who are 'shut in' or otherwise unable to attend Sabbath School. This would prove really valuable to them. 

[Ozzie]

Jesus called a number of male disciples. Why did He not call women? Could that be because females are more religiously inclined, so they came by themselves?

Johann, I'll give the male-female role a miss, before I really get myself in deep trouble!  

[Artiste]

Why not give us some more of your impressions, Artiste? Some claim that women were subdued in the Jewish society, then we also hear that the role of women was far superior in the Jewish society at that time that what was seen in other societies then. So, what did Paul really mean?

Johann, I was thinking about this...

Paul is famous for saying that Christ is the head of the church, and a man is the head over a woman.  He explains this in varous ways such as how the creation of Adam and then Eve came about.  He also said that church officers should be serious, and not liars, heavy drinkers, etc.  He then says that women should also be serious and not heavy drinkers, thus implying that women and church officers were mutually exclusive categories.

Women in Jewish society were known to be considered as the property of men; this could range from a respected position as a notable man's wife or a more subordiate situation where the woman was a man's property but did not have the status of a "regular" wife.

I assume that some of the above were reasons why Jesus did not call female disciples and Paul said that women should not teach men.

I have also wondered if one reason Paul said that a women shouldn't teach was because of the position that some women had had in the religion of some former surrounding pagan cultures.

As far as the position of women in societies other than Jewish, I am sure that they were significantly worse off because the restraints of the Jews' religious and moral standards would not have been present in those cases.

 

[Bob Pickle]

From Monday's lesson, January 28, 2007:

"Jesus' act of allowing female disciples was unique. Various religious movements in that time did not include women. Some teachers said that women were emptyheaded, were not to be taught, should not be seen in public with men, and should be confined to the home and domestic arts. Yet from the earliest pages of the Gospel right up to the end, women, in one way or another, were involved in the life and mission of Jesus."

This sounds plausible, but I would appreciate some historical references that would support the idea that Jesus' allowing women disciples was unique.

The point is potentially extremely important. If Jesus bucked the culture of His times by allowing women disciples, His act of choosing 12 men to be the 12 apostles would therefore more effectively demonstrate that the roles established at the gates of Eden for men and women had not yet been abrogated.

It cannot be argued that Jesus was merely going along with the culture of His times by ordaining 12 men to be the 12 apostles if He boldly and publicly bucked the culture of the times by allowing women disciples.