Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Daryl Fawcett on April 05, 2008, 01:04:52 PM
-
What is the Seventh-day Church's relationship to 3ABN?
Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church both see and accept 3ABN as a supporting ministry of the church?
-
What is the Seventh-day Church's relationship to 3ABN?
Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church both see and accept 3ABN as a supporting ministry of the church?
Interesting that you ask that question, Daryl, since I just finished posting on MSDAOL a concern that possibly both MSDAOL and BSDA might be, or have been in the past, recipients of church attempts of control due to what might be categorized as criticisms of 3ABN found on both sites.
-
From www.adventist.org
The presence of Seventh-day Adventist churches, offices, and institutions around the world has established a global recognition for the Church. Public perception concerning the worldwide family of Seventh-day Adventists is influenced by the lives of members, by the actions of each organization, by denominationally-identified services and programs, and by the maintenance of aesthetic appeal at all physical properties.
*********************************************
What about the actions of 3ABN?
-
Wow! This is a very subjective question! It depends entirely who is being asked.
What is apparent to everyone is the FACT that the Church is politically correct at every step of the way.
To cover their posterior, the decided to ask the churches not to accept donations from 3ABN, because the church has no way of knowing how or where the money would go.
It appears from the Danny Defenders that the churches have disregarded those instructions.
I believe the next move will be for Divisions to remove any hint of a relationship with 3ABN. Let me see ... let me count the ways!
I believe word is out to further distance themselves from 3ABN! Politically, very quietly to not ripple the water.
They will do all that is necessary to stay out of the coming explosion.
Let us pray that 3ABN will remain after Danny. I really believe 3ABN can still be sanctified and change the way things were. At least I am praying for that. However, they are in the hole, but refuse to stop digging.
-
Wow! This is a very subjective question! It depends entirely who is being asked.
What is apparent to everyone is the FACT that the Church is politically correct at every step of the way.
To cover their posterior, the decided to ask the churches not to accept donations from 3ABN, because the church has no way of knowing how or where the money would go.
It appears from the Danny Defenders that the churches have disregarded those instructions.
I believe the next move will be for Divisions to remove any hint of a relationship with 3ABN. Let me see ... let me count the ways!
I believe word is out to further distance themselves from 3ABN! Politically, very quietly to not ripple the water.
They will do all that is necessary to stay out of the coming explosion.
Let us pray that 3ABN will remain after Danny. I really believe 3ABN can still be sanctified and change the way things were. At least I am praying for that. However, they are in the hole, but refuse to stop digging.
So if the Seventh-day Adventist Church is quietly and in a politically correct way trying to distance itself from 3ABN...
What kind of an organization does this make the church?
It will not make a public stand as to its beliefs and standards of christian behavior?
What about all the Adventist church members who still believe in 3ABN and give their donations to it?
-
We do know that it is the type of organization that will attempt to force a conservative and loyal discussion forum to remove "SDA" from its online name.
-
What caused me to bring up this topic is the discovery that 3ABN is still listed in the Adventist Organizations & Supportive Ministries section of our Conference Directory with the Canadian version of 3ABN also being listed in the Canadian Adventist Organizations & Supportive Ministries section of our Conference Directory.
Didn't 3ABN claim otherwise in the text of the lawsuit against Joy & Pickle?
-
It seems to me that the Adventist church supports various types of organizations and "ministries"...perhaps to appeal to different types of demographics within the church...
Re: 3ABN
Re: The Adventist film festival going on next weekend with the Saturday night gala billed thusly...quoting from their website...
" The SONscreen Awards Gala theme this year will be "Black & White Movie Classics" so feel free to dress up as your favorite classic movie character!...think, Casablanca… Best Dressed wins a prize!"
"SONscreen was created by the North American Division (NAD) of Seventh-day Adventists to nurture Christian filmmakers in their craft, career development, and spiritual lives."
A little something for everyone!
-
What caused me to bring up this topic is the discovery that 3ABN is still listed in the Adventist Organizations & Supportive Ministries section of our Conference Directory with the Canadian version of 3ABN also being listed in the Canadian Adventist Organizations & Supportive Ministries section of our Conference Directory.
Didn't 3ABN claim otherwise in the text of the lawsuit against Joy & Pickle?
You could quote from the lawsuit and ask them why 3ABN is still listed when they have stated such so clearly in court.
http://www.save-3abn.com/3abn-and-danny-v-joy-and-pickle-complaint.htm (http://www.save-3abn.com/3abn-and-danny-v-joy-and-pickle-complaint.htm)
-
I wonder how Seventh-day Adventist would stack up if they fit the shoes of those on this list of Republican leaders ... Oops, aren't many SDA's voting for Republicans because they are supposed to be representing the Christians?
The list is several pages long. It is interesting to say the least. "And the beat goes on!"
http://www.republicanoffenders.com/Pedophiles.html
-
Pretty sick.
The danger of mixing politics and religion is that politicians become religious simply to win votes and support. GC warns about that when it discusses the effect of certain colonial religious laws. Those laws and the resulting leavening of the churches when the worldly started professing religion in order to be qualified to run for office were a major factor in bringing about the situation where William Miller's message was needed to bring about revival and reformation.
-
I wonder how Seventh-day Adventist would stack up if they fit the shoes of those on this list of Republican leaders ... Oops, aren't many SDA's voting for Republicans because they are supposed to be representing the Christians?
The list is several pages long. It is interesting to say the least. "And the beat goes on!"
http://www.republicanoffenders.com/Pedophiles.html
I seriously doubt the relationship of SDA leaders to 3ABN is because of the list posted here detailing the offenses of republican politicians.
I am a republican by party and not because they represent christians. Being a republican and finding agreement with their political leanings does not create pedophiles, make one more prone to become one,nor condone or accept that behavior in any way. Anymore than the process of becoming a catholic priest creates a pedophile. They are that prior to a decision on a religious or political affiliation.
You can't stop a pedophile from voting republican/democrat or joining the party,anymore than you can make one by the party they join.
Does a pedophile represent the SDA denomination because we have them join and obtain membership in the SDA church?
Have you checked out or looked up the democratic record of deviant sexual behaviour? Barney Frank,leading democrat, is an excellant example of deviant. Number one deviant was our former commander in chief,democratic president Bill Clinton.
The SDA denomination refuses to act or become more forceful in the ongoing alleged scandel of 3ABN for reasons other than worldly political affiliation.
If political leanings were a factor,more SDA's than ever are either involved/affliated/or support democratic political leanings .
-
Bonnie;
I did not post that link to say that Republicans are all BAD! It is just the link I went to from a link of a link. I firmly believe that every political group has their share of deviants among their leaders.
This was NOT a political post at all. The point of it being a Republican list was not my point at all. It just caused me to wonder if the church has the same kind of list. I am sure the Catholics do. I am sure the Democrats could produce an impressive list also.
My point was that there is evidence that there are MANY pedophiles out there. It would stand to reason that our church is no different. There are just no published lists out there that are public to every reader. Maybe their needs to be one.
My point is that this deviant behaviour has become common place. My point was that we are nearing the events that Lot experienced. He offered his own daughters to the men, but no they would not settle for that!
It angers me that 3ABN has acted as if it was just a "sexual preference" and not something evil. Have we come to the place where no one cares? That was my point.
I am sorry the list said Republican. I am also registered Republican that votes my choice, be that Republican, Democrat, or Independent. I do not join in political discussions, but this list angered me in that pedophilia has become everyday news. It angers me that no one has a list of all the victims to show how many lives were destroyed by the "preferences" of these molester.
Where is justice for them?
-
Fran,
I apologize. I did take your post the wrong way. I have read enough in past years that you have posted, I should have known better.
As to your question, there is no justice for a victim. No justice, no help, with the exception of those like Mabel Dunbar. But as I said in Abuse in the Adventist Church topic, after the rush to aid the guilty, hopefully Mabel Dunbar can reach the victim before he/she bleeds to death.
It does not matter what type of abuse, the guilty has many rushing to his side to make sure he is not feeling to much guilt, make sure he knows that the interest is in his emotional/physical/spiritual well being first and foremost.
We certainly do have "our" pedophiles". We know they are there,but if we don't rush to forgive them and feel all is well, we need to do one of two things. Say, "we do not care" which sounds pretty callous and unchristian, say we care and back it up. That takes a lot of dedication and hard work.
Far easier to offer forgivness we have no right to offer on behalf of a victim
Forgiving someone that has harmed another is a total slap in the face to any victim. I cannot forgive someone that has harmed you and what a insult.
Pedophilia,sexual immorality, sexual abuse of a vulnerable person of any age is evil, Calling it by it's right name crowds the comfort zone of many. IMO, many do so because if they can appear so forgiving/loving/righteous over something this evil, God will surey wink at their own "little" sins.
How many times I have had repeated to me that if I don't forgive this type of sin, God cannot forgive me mine.
They twist the meaning of forgivness and lay the twisted version of responsibility back on the victim, all the while feeling very righteous.
Looking at the evidence of the lives destroyed only confirms for the forgivness crowd, they were right. If the victim forgave, there would not be any lives destroyed.
Righteous and correct articles have been written as proof that, "Yup, we know we have a problem, we know how damaging,we know how evil. Then the work is done. They have taken that first important first step, what else do we want from them? Nothing different than an alcoholic acknowledging he has a drinking problem as he continues to drink. It has to go beyond that with dedicated committment. Sorry, it isn't there.
We can't have such a thing as a list of known pedophiles in the church. That is not christian. We must forgive them according to the dictates of those writing the rules.
As for the feeling it is just a sexual preference, I am convinced the majority don't see it as anything worse.
You have been around the forums a long time as I have, I am sure you have read the remarks.
One I remember well in response to the article written by James Cress on this type of abuse. Had I possessed any common sense, I would have understood way back then how this is viewed.
The remark was in response to a pastor being removed, no second chance. The statement or question was asked, What if a pastor bought gas on sabbath, isn't that a sin to? Doesn't God view all sin the same.
IMO What a evil thing to do to a victim. I am not talking about the abuser, but the person asking the question. Reducing the horrific acts of sexual abuse to "the sin of buying gas on sabbath".
Only when we as members react on the scale that has taken place with the demand for accountibility in org that represent our denomination, will any victim have a slim chance at any justice.
That will not happen. The problem has been solved and as soon as we can get that across to the victims and make them understand their responsibility,all will be well it is same song, same dance.
After all the Lord will come soon, let him take care of it
-
Let Him take care of it? Mighty scary if you ask me.
He said it is better that we have a millstone hung around our neck and be cast into the depth of the sea than hurt one of God's children. better? Better than what? Better than the wrath of the Lamb on that day.
It's an odd picture, an angry Lamb. Desire of Ages has a section that explains it well.
Divine love has been stirred to its unfathomable depths for the sake of men, and angels marvel to behold in the recipients of so great love a mere surface gratitude. Angels marvel at man's shallow appreciation of the love of God. Heaven stands indignant at the neglect shown to the souls of men. Would we know how Christ regards it? How would a father and mother feel, did they know that their child, lost in the cold and the snow, had been passed by, and left to perish, by those who might have saved it? Would they not be terribly grieved, wildly indignant? Would they not denounce those murderers with wrath hot as their tears, intense as their love? The sufferings of every man are the sufferings of God's child, and those who reach out no helping hand to their perishing fellow beings provoke His righteous anger. This is the wrath of the Lamb. (DA 825)
But recall the lesson behind having to wash every time you touched something unclean in the OT sacrificial system: contact with sin defiles. We are all in danger of becoming desensitized to sin, especially if we watch the garbage that comes on TV. We can get to the point where it doesn't seem so bad anymore, and God doesn't want that to happen to us.
-
It isn't that we are going to get to the point of being desensitized, we are they. I am not so sure it can all be blamed on tv.
This began long before there was the type of garbage on TV. Our denomination as well as others did not suddenly wake up desensitized.
We do not have a very good history of putting a stop to abusive practices. Whether it be financial, criminal, sexual or other abuses.
The history was not caused by TV. Now it ceratinly adds, but it did not create
More times than I can count I have been told to leave it to Christ. He will take care of all when he comes and m,ake all things right
-
It isn't that we are going to get to the point of being desensitized, we are they. I am not so sure it can all be blamed on tv.
This began long before there was the type of garbage on TV. Our denomination as well as others did not suddenly wake up desensitized.
We do not have a very good history of putting a stop to abusive practices. Whether it be financial, criminal, sexual or other abuses.
The history was not caused by TV. Now it ceratinly adds, but it did not create
More times than I can count I have been told to leave it to Christ. He will take care of all when he comes and m,ake all things right
And meanwhile... evil continues unabated and we're supposed to sit back, cool our heels and do nothing? :scratch: I don't think so, but there are many who cry me down, when I say otherwise. I guess I'd better get off my soap box? :dunno:
-
Yup. It has recently been strongly implied that I am not a loyal SDA and that I lack the bible knowledge of one that strongly disagrees.
If being a loyal SDA requires mindless,cultic loyalty in the face of things that are so drastically wrong, I consider it a compliment that is is obvious I am not one
-
If being a loyal SDA requires mindless,cultic loyalty in the face of things that are so drastically wrong, I consider it a compliment that is is obvious I am not one
Good for you bonnie! If that is what it means then I don't want to be one either.
-
Yup. It has recently been strongly implied that I am not a loyal SDA and that I lack the bible knowledge of one that strongly disagrees.
If being a loyal SDA requires mindless,cultic loyalty in the face of things that are so drastically wrong, I consider it a compliment that is is obvious I am not one
Bonnie, I typed a reply to you, 'going off' about the fact that I've been voted our of Church Board and then membership, because I would not 'cover' abuse and my post all disappeared into cyber space. :scratch: I think I told you about 'whistleblowing' in a particular health system about the abuse that was occurring there.
I can be called a disloyal SDA/employee or whatever, whatever is chosen, but I KNOW what I must do in those circumstances, and it's not keep my mouth shut and pretend abuse does not exist; whether that be in the church or in government departments.
Sorry, I couldn't type it again again, as I have a 'broken wing' - the one I use most, and the pain is telling me to go and rest it again. Maybe, it's meant to get me off my 'soap box' for awhile! :cat:
-
If being a loyal SDA requires mindless,cultic loyalty in the face of things that are so drastically wrong, I consider it a compliment that is is obvious I am not one
Being a loyal SDA means standing for the right though the heavens fall.
"When the religion of Christ is most held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few--this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason" (LDE 180).
You'd think Ellen White had to be a prophet to hit it right on like that.
-
Being a loyal SDA means standing for the right though the heavens fall.
"When the religion of Christ is most held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few--this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason" (LDE 180).
You'd think Ellen White had to be a prophet to hit it right on like that.
It doesn't matter what the abuse is,those that condone by selected "sound bites" of scripture, by silence,by abusive actions themselves are the very ones that fear three little words. PREVENTION,EDUCATION,SUPPORT. Those three words spell power in the hands of any victim and expousure for those that can least deal with it.
Given the right tools has the same effect a unarmed burgler would feel suddenly faced with a angry homeowner with a big gun squarely in his face. Those that opposse Prevention,Education,Support are scared .
Scared of expousure. The only recourse is to opposse that which would empower those that work towards education and the prevention of further abuses.
To add a bit of scriptual support for their stand of non-action,blocking action, or accusations towards those that do want to see this type of action in place,they hammer with little sound bites that make them look so righteous in the eyes of others.
"Accuser of the brethren" is always a good one to back up their apathy towards abuse and wrong doing.
"Let he who is witout sin cast the first stone" is great for silencing anyone and protects their secret little ones God will surely wink at
"Writing the sin quietly in the sand" is a favorite
"If you can do it better,go for it" is another
The list is quite long, has been very effective till now. Oops, now comes the internet and victims and those wishing to protect victims are no longer isolated. The SDA world is more and more connected. This one knows that one and that one knows another and piece by piece that which they have tried so hard to hide starts to unravel.
Expousure in one area may just bring expousure in area's they can least stand the light. Can't take that chance so resistance becomes more intense . Their often repeated statement of "truth can stand investigation" suddenly may come and bite them in the backside. Their promoted self image can disintergrate right before their eyes.
No wonder the panic,scrambling to prevent Prevention,Education and Support. One never knows where arming others with those tools will lead. It may very well come right to their back door.
Maybe I lack the superior biblical knowledge of those that opposse this and maybe my membership as a mindless,non-thinking,cultic SDA is in question, but I hope I never become "christian" enough or SDA enough, that I become a member of this club
=====
Edited to correct quoting problem only. - Daryl :)
-
This is what Counsel tells us and i cannot put it any better:
"Choose poverty, reproach, separation from friends, or any suffering rather than to defile the soul with sin. Death before dishonor or the transgression of God's law should be the motto of every Christian. As a people professing to be reformers, treasuring the most solemn, purifying truths of God's word, we must elevate the standard far higher than it is at the present time. Sin and sinners in the church must be promptly dealt with, that others may not be contaminated. Truth and purity require that we make more thorough work to cleanse the camp from Achans. Let those in responsible positions not suffer sin in a brother. Show him that he must either put away his sins or be separated from the church. {5T 147.1}
When the individual members of the church shall act as true followers of the meek and lowly Saviour, there will be less covering up and excusing of sin. All will strive to act as if in God's presence. They will realize that His all-seeing eye is ever upon them and that the most secret thought is known to Him. The character, the motives, the desires and purposes, are as clear as the light of the sun to the eye of the Omnipotent. But few bear this in mind. The larger class by far do not realize what a fearful account must be rendered at the bar of God by all the transgressors of His law. {5T 147.2}
Can you who have professed to receive such great light be content with a low level? Oh, how earnestly and constantly should we seek for the divine presence and a realization of the solemn truths that the end of all things is at hand and that the Judge of all the earth stands at the door! How can you disregard His just and holy requirements? How can you transgress in the very face of Jehovah? How can you cherish unholy thoughts and base passions in full view of the pure angels and of the Redeemer, who gave Himself for you that He
148
might redeem you from all iniquity and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works? As you contemplate the matter in the light which shines from the cross of Christ, will not sin appear too mean, too perilous, to be indulged when standing upon the very borders of the eternal world? {5T 147.3}
I speak to our people. If you draw close to Jesus and seek to adorn your profession by a well-ordered life and godly conversation, your feet will be kept from straying into forbidden paths. If you will only watch, continually watch unto prayer, if you will do everything as if you were in the immediate presence of God, you will be saved from yielding to temptation, and may hope to be kept pure, spotless, and undefiled till the last. If you hold the beginning of your confidence firm unto the end, your ways will be established in God; and what grace has begun, glory will crown in the kingdom of our God. The fruits of the Spirit are "love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." If Christ be within us, we shall crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts.
-
{5T 148.1}
-
Here is another more pointed message that may have relevance here:
"Stand on the side of righteousness in all your transactions; then you will not appear to disadvantage before God or man. Do not enter into any dishonest practises. Those who take up the preparation and sale of health foods for personal profit are taking a liberty to which they have no right. Thus great confusion is brought into the work. Some manufacture foods professing to be health foods which contain ingredients which health reform condemns. Then again, the foods are often of such an inferior quality that much harm is done to the cause by their sale, those who buy them supposing that all health foods are similar. {KC 137.2}
No one has any right to take advantage of the business arrangements that have been made in regard to health foods. Those who handle these foods should first come to an understanding with Dr. Kellogg or others who are working in harmony with him, and learn the best methods of handling the health foods. He who enters selfishly into this work, at the same time giving his customers the impression that the profits on the goods he sells are used for personal interest, is under the displeasure of God. By and by their business will fail, and they will get things into such a tangle that their brethren will have to buy them out to save disgrace being brought on the cause. {KC 137.3}
The Lord is greatly displeased when His service is dishonored by the selfishness of those engaged in it. He wills that every part of His work shall be in harmony with every other part, joint connecting with joint. {KC 137.4}
The Lord wants His people to stand far above selfish interests. He wants them to conquer the temptations they meet. He calls for the communion of saints. He desires His workers to stand under His supervision. He will plane and polish the material for His temple, preparing each piece to fit closely to the other, so that the building will be perfect and complete, wanting nothing. "{KC 137.5}
-
It is frustrating when purportedly Seventh-day Adventist congregations or their "pastors" opt out of any appearance by Linda Sue Shelton. Does being neutral mean that 3ABN or James Gilley gets in anywhere, but Linda, the victim, is excluded? Sounds like serious discrepancy that must be corrected.
Gailon Arthur Joy
-
It is frustrating when purportedly Seventh-day Adventist congregations or their "pastors" opt out of any appearance by Linda Sue Shelton. Does being neutral mean that 3ABN or James Gilley gets in anywhere, but Linda, the victim, is excluded? Sounds like serious discrepancy that must be corrected.
Gailon Arthur Joy
That doesn't sound neutral at all to me!
Are there any know cases recently where Linda Shelton has been excluded?
-
It is frustrating when purportedly Seventh-day Adventist congregations or their "pastors" opt out of any appearance by Linda Sue Shelton. Does being neutral mean that 3ABN or James Gilley gets in anywhere, but Linda, the victim, is excluded? Sounds like serious discrepancy that must be corrected.
Gailon Arthur Joy
That is not 'neutral' in my book Gailon. Is this currently happening? If so, where? ???
I feel quite nauseated at times when I hear people speaking of DS and 3abn like that is the ticket to heaven. How can people be so blind? Then again, it's quite true to say that there are none so blind, as those who do not want to see.
-
It is frustrating when purportedly Seventh-day Adventist congregations or their "pastors" opt out of any appearance by Linda Sue Shelton. Does being neutral mean that 3ABN or James Gilley gets in anywhere, but Linda, the victim, is excluded? Sounds like serious discrepancy that must be corrected.
Gailon Arthur Joy
That is not 'neutral' in my book Gailon. Is this currently happening? If so, where? ???
I feel quite nauseated at times when I hear people speaking of DS and 3abn like that is the ticket to heaven. How can people be so blind? Then again, it's quite true to say that there are none so blind, as those who do not want to see.
And would you like to count the number? I have a file that is filling fast as we investigate and track the source of the objections.
Gailon Arthur Joy
-
It is frustrating when purportedly Seventh-day Adventist congregations or their "pastors" opt out of any appearance by Linda Sue Shelton. Does being neutral mean that 3ABN or James Gilley gets in anywhere, but Linda, the victim, is excluded? Sounds like serious discrepancy that must be corrected.
Gailon Arthur Joy
That is not 'neutral' in my book Gailon. Is this currently happening? If so, where? ???
I feel quite nauseated at times when I hear people speaking of DS and 3abn like that is the ticket to heaven. How can people be so blind? Then again, it's quite true to say that there are none so blind, as those who do not want to see.
And would you like to count the number? I have a file that is filling fast as we investigate and track the source of the objections.
Gailon Arthur Joy
It's hard to believe that this is happening four years after Linda left 3ABN.
What are they so concerned about?
-
It's hard to believe that this is happening four years after Linda left 3ABN.
What are they so concerned about?
I don't find it hard to believe at all. It seems like the same things are going on that happened when I worked there, only worse and more numerous.
-
"What are they concerned about?" Artiste
THE TRUTH!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
-
It is frustrating when purportedly Seventh-day Adventist congregations or their "pastors" opt out of any appearance by Linda Sue Shelton. Does being neutral mean that 3ABN or James Gilley gets in anywhere, but Linda, the victim, is excluded? Sounds like serious discrepancy that must be corrected.
Gailon Arthur Joy
That is not 'neutral' in my book Gailon. Is this currently happening? If so, where? ???
I feel quite nauseated at times when I hear people speaking of DS and 3abn like that is the ticket to heaven. How can people be so blind? Then again, it's quite true to say that there are none so blind, as those who do not want to see.
And would you like to count the number? I have a file that is filling fast as we investigate and track the source of the objections.
Gailon Arthur Joy
WOW!
Do we have a 'smilie' to depict that expression?
-
All of this is enough to make one very sad or even cry. There are so many that know nothing about our loving Lord, and so much time and money has to be spent to to repair wrongful damage to many people. No matter what a person felt about Linda's TV image, no one should be put through what she has gone through. How the church workers can aid those trying to destroy her and her witness is almost unthinkable; how can lives controlled by love do such actions without any factual information???? It seems to me that self-sacrificing love is the only motive for those who are yielded to Jesus.
-
All of this is enough to make one very sad or even cry. There are so many that know nothing about our loving Lord, and so much time and money has to be spent to to repair wrongful damage to many people. No matter what a person felt about Linda's TV image, no one should be put through what she has gone through. How the church workers can aid those trying to destroy her and her witness is almost unthinkable; how can lives controlled by love do such actions without any factual information???? It seems to me that self-sacrificing love is the only motive for those who are yielded to Jesus.
One wonders how they sleep well at night. One cannot help but wonder also, just what lengths people will go to, to protect themselves during the 'time of trouble', if they are prepared to sacrifice people and reputations at this time of so-called peace.
-
Witch doctors issue unbelievable sleeping medications these days.
-
While looking to see if there is anything new over at http://www.save-3abn.com I came across the following relative to this topic:
http://www.save-3abn.com/3abn-board-walt-thompson-non-denominational-not-affiliated.htm
-
What is the Seventh-day Church's relationship to 3ABN?
Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church both see and accept 3ABN as a supporting ministry of the church?
My question is, in spite of the new leadership, the old leadership is still appearing on the program much to the dismay of those who thought that 3ABN was returning to honesty and open communication with their listeners. Thus, one SDA observer of all that has happened to 3ABN, and who is quite capable of donating generously to any SDA Organization who they think worthy, has asked me to find out if Danny Shelton is still being supported in anyway or being paid a salary from donations being given by donaters to 3ABN. I hope that someone can help him with this. Any one knows? Money will not be donated by earnest SDA if they do not know how much of this is being paid or given in other ways to Danny Shelton and the Shelton Family.
-
Hi Lorraine! Welcome to AdventTalk!!
While I cannot answer your questions specifically, have you or your friend had a chance to review the property tax case along with its appeals? The case has been heard at least three times now, with each court finding that 3ABN has NOT been able to prove they are not operating with "a view to profit" (I know that was a double negative!!) I think one even went so far as to say that Danny Shelton had no credibility with them. And, are you aware of the IRS criminal investigation into the situation? I have made the personal decision NOT to donate anything to 3ABN until these issues are resolved. There are two other wonderful SDA television stations out there - Hope and LLBN - as well as many other great ministries to donate to!! But that's just my opinion. I don't want to get sued!!
Snoopy
What is the Seventh-day Church's relationship to 3ABN?
Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church both see and accept 3ABN as a supporting ministry of the church?
My question is, in spite of the new leadership, the old leadership is still appearing on the program much to the dismay of those who thought that 3ABN was returning to honesty and open communication with their listeners. Thus, one SDA observer of all that has happened to 3ABN, and who is quite capable of donating generously to any SDA Organization who they think worthy, has asked me to find out if Danny Shelton is still being supported in anyway or being paid a salary from donations being given by donaters to 3ABN. I hope that someone can help him with this. Any one knows? Money will not be donated by earnest SDA if they do not know how much of this is being paid or given in other ways to Danny Shelton and the Shelton Family.
-
Thus, one SDA observer of all that has happened to 3ABN, and who is quite capable of donating generously to any SDA Organization who they think worthy, has asked me to find out if Danny Shelton is still being supported in anyway or being paid a salary from donations being given by donaters to 3ABN. I hope that someone can help him with this. Any one knows? Money will not be donated by earnest SDA if they do not know how much of this is being paid or given in other ways to Danny Shelton and the Shelton Family.
The official word from 3ABN has been that Danny is a consultant, and I am fairly certain that means he is still on the payroll.
More than that, 3ABN gave Danny around 40 acres of land last fall, we were told by sources loyal to him. However, when the deed was finally recorded at the courthouse, only in his name, which raises yet more questions since he is supposed to be a married man, the 48 acres were, according to the paperwork, bought by Danny for $2000 an acre.
Someone who knows real estate down there told me they thought that land should be worth $5000 an acre. I'm not a real estate expert so I can't say.
One other thing your friend ought to consider is what use they would want their donation to 3ABN to go for.
- 3ABN has hired lawyers to write nasty letters to non-Adventists in order to silence their concerns about child molestation.
- 3ABN has hired lawyers to sue public school districts and the IL Dept. of Rev.
- 3ABN has hired lawyers to sue two Adventists because they spoke up about their concerns about what is going on.
- 3ABN has presumably hired lawyers to fight the race/sex discrimination/retaliation complaint filed against them in California and with the EEOC.
- 3ABN has presumably hired lawyers to fight the IRS criminal investigation.
Do folks want their donations going to pay lawyers? What guarantee is there that that won't happen?
Better yet, does anyone know how the annual legal expenses right now compare to the annual jet expenses?
-
And don't forget, 3ABN has hired lawyers to try to track down and intimidate individuals just for having an opinion and stating it on a public forum!!
-
Thanks, Gailon, for those wonderful SOP quotes. Have you seen this one??
There are many in the church who at heart belong to the world, but God calls upon those who claim to believe the advanced truth, to rise above the present attitude of the popular churches of today. Where is the self-denial, where is the cross-bearing that Christ has said should characterize His followers? The reason we have had so little influence upon unbelieving relatives and associates is that we have manifested little decided difference in our practices from those of the world. Parents need to awake, and purify their souls by practicing the truth in their home life. When we reach the standard that the Lord would have us reach, worldlings will regard Seventh-day Adventists as odd, singular, strait-laced extremists. "We are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men." {FE 289.1}
It seems to me that not only worldlings but SDA church members will be regarding all who follow Jesus closely as "odd, singular, strait-laced extremists." I've become an outcast since protesting leavening used in the bread on the Communion Table; plus refusing a church elders' immoral advances. Ozzie, I understand just how it feels... but I won't keep my mouth shut either! Since when do our feelings have anything to do with how we stand for Truth??
I pray every day to become even more of an "odd, singular, strait-laced extremist"; and filled with the love of Jesus.
------------------------------
I remember a posting on BSDA when someone expressed sorrow and grief about the actions that had been so far revealed...
and someone else stated that "we haven't even seen the tip of the iceberg yet!!"
Each time something else comes out into the light, I keep wondering how deep this cesspool really is.
-
What is the Seventh-day Church's relationship to 3ABN?
Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church both see and accept 3ABN as a supporting ministry of the church?
My question is, in spite of the new leadership, the old leadership is still appearing on the program much to the dismay of those who thought that 3ABN was returning to honesty and open communication with their listeners. Thus, one SDA observer of all that has happened to 3ABN, and who is quite capable of donating generously to any SDA Organization who they think worthy, has asked me to find out if Danny Shelton is still being supported in anyway or being paid a salary from donations being given by donaters to 3ABN. I hope that someone can help him with this. Any one knows? Money will not be donated by earnest SDA if they do not know how much of this is being paid or given in other ways to Danny Shelton and the Shelton Family.
The only thing that seems to have changed is the designation from President to Consultant. He is said to still be still paid and seems to manage much of the dya to day operations with Mollie Steenson when he is not working on the new house and farm facility.
Of particular concern is: what is the plan for corporate progression in the event Elder James Gilley leaves for any reason?
Some believe that there is growing resistance to the Gilley Presidency by old leadership. It will take time to build enough new people that have loyalty to other than DLS and Mollie.
Gailon Arthur Joy
-
And don't forget, 3ABN has hired lawyers to try to track down and intimidate individuals just for having an opinion and stating it on a public forum!!
And what a proud moment...those people have taken a stand and have intimidated right back. Keep up the intimidatingly great work!!! In fact, while they are running, chase them down...make certain they understand they will be met on every level to defend and offend when appropriate.
Gailon Arthur Joy
-
Thanks, Gailon, for those wonderful SOP quotes. Have you seen this one??
There are many in the church who at heart belong to the world, but God calls upon those who claim to believe the advanced truth, to rise above the present attitude of the popular churches of today. Where is the self-denial, where is the cross-bearing that Christ has said should characterize His followers? The reason we have had so little influence upon unbelieving relatives and associates is that we have manifested little decided difference in our practices from those of the world. Parents need to awake, and purify their souls by practicing the truth in their home life. When we reach the standard that the Lord would have us reach, worldlings will regard Seventh-day Adventists as odd, singular, strait-laced extremists. "We are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men." {FE 289.1}
It seems to me that not only worldlings but SDA church members will be regarding all who follow Jesus closely as "odd, singular, strait-laced extremists." I've become an outcast since protesting leavening used in the bread on the Communion Table; plus refusing a church elders' immoral advances. Ozzie, I understand just how it feels... but I won't keep my mouth shut either! Since when do our feelings have anything to do with how we stand for Truth??
I pray every day to become even more of an "odd, singular, strait-laced extremist"; and filled with the love of Jesus.
------------------------------
I remember a posting on BSDA when someone expressed sorrow and grief about the actions that had been so far revealed...
and someone else stated that "we haven't even seen the tip of the iceberg yet!!"
Each time something else comes out into the light, I keep wondering how deep this cesspool really is.
That is a great quote.
As to the depth of the cesspool, we unfortunately live in it, wallow against it every day and they simply emulated it!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
-
It seems to me that not only worldlings but SDA church members will be regarding all who follow Jesus closely as "odd, singular, strait-laced extremists." I've become an outcast since protesting leavening used in the bread on the Communion Table; plus refusing a church elders' immoral advances. Ozzie, I understand just how it feels... but I won't keep my mouth shut either! Since when do our feelings have anything to do with how we stand for Truth??
I pray every day to become even more of an "odd, singular, strait-laced extremist"; and filled with the love of Jesus.
------------------------------
I remember a posting on BSDA when someone expressed sorrow and grief about the actions that had been so far revealed...
and someone else stated that "we haven't even seen the tip of the iceberg yet!!"
Each time something else comes out into the light, I keep wondering how deep this cesspool really is.
Roxe, I can't remember who it was that said that "life wasn't meant to be easy", but it's certainly true when one stands for truth. It can be VERY LONELY too. Often, we feel that our only friend is Jesus, as other people tell us that were "stupid to get involved", "Leave it for the authorities to work on" (and they don't want to see it, let alone deal with the problem), "If that were true, 'something' would have been done about it before now" and so on.
There is usually quite a price tag that accompanies standing for truth, but our reward is not in this world. I long to be with Jesus and see and end to all this evil; both within and without the church. And Roxe, don't keep your mouth shut either. Stand up and be counted. God bless. :praying:
-
Here, Here!!! Second the motion!!!
GAJ
-
Roxe, I can't remember who it was that said that "life wasn't meant to be easy", but it's certainly true when one stands for truth. It can be VERY LONELY too. Often, we feel that our only friend is Jesus, as other people tell us that were "stupid to get involved", "Leave it for the authorities to work on" (and they don't want to see it, let alone deal with the problem), "If that were true, 'something' would have been done about it before now" and so on.
There is usually quite a price tag that accompanies standing for truth, but our reward is not in this world. I long to be with Jesus and see and end to all this evil; both within and without the church. And Roxe, don't keep your mouth shut either. Stand up and be counted. God bless. :praying:
Thanks, Ozzie and Gailon, for the encouraging words! I kept being told "God understands!" when informing of God's truth in regards to their actions. I very politely said: "Tell Achan that! Tell Uzzah that! God is more strict than we tend to think."
:TY: too for your prayers. You're in mine!
-
Thanks, Ozzie and Gailon, for the encouraging words! I kept being told "God understands!" when informing of God's truth in regards to their actions. I very politely said: "Tell Achan that! Tell Uzzah that! God is more strict than we tend to think."
:TY: too for your prayers. You're in mine!
:praying: :amen: