Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Adam on November 20, 2010, 08:20:52 PM
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I received word that SNAP (The survivors Network of those abused by priest) will be at the Community Church of God tomorrow.... where Tommy formally pastored... passing out material to encourage other's to come forward. I have been told, but not sure, that some of the members asked them to leave previously. The director has said she is going to be there anyway because others need to come forward.
Let's pray that if there are other victims that they do come forward. I can tell you this organization (Snap) has been of great strength and courage to my dear friend Alex during this time.
Let's also pray that the church allows them to reach out to other's who may be hurting.
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Any update on this?
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I found this online...
SNAP Press Release
http://www.snapnetwork.org/snap_press_releases/2010_press_releases/112110_victims_and_supporters_to_leaflet_outside_fairfax_church.htm (http://www.snapnetwork.org/snap_press_releases/2010_press_releases/112110_victims_and_supporters_to_leaflet_outside_fairfax_church.htm)
Victims and supporters to leaflet outside Fairfax church
They seek others hurt by child molesting former pastor
Former pastor just pled guilty to sexually abusing two boys
Groups urge anyone who “saw, suspected or suffered” crimes to get help
They beg parents to ask loved ones “Did this cleric (or others) ever hurt you?”
WHAT: As parishioners leave Sunday service, clergy sex abuse victims and supporters will hand out fliers about a former pastor who recently pleaded guilty to “taking indecent liberties with two minors.” The leaflets will urge:
- churchgoers to talk to their children about the cleric and sexual abuse,
- current pastor to use church bulletins and other means to prod victims to come forward &
- anyone who saw, suspected or suffered his misdeeds to come forward and get help.
WHEN: Sunday, November 21 at 11:45 a. m.
WHERE: Outside Community Church of God, 2500 Gallows Road, Dunn Loring, Virginia
WHO: Three-four individuals who belong to a support group called SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAPnetwork.org) and/or a Catholic lay reform group called VOTF (Voice of the Faithful)
WHY: In March, Tommy R Shelton Jr was charged with two counts of aggravated sexual battery, two counts of taking indecent liberties with a minor and two counts of sodomy.
From 1995-2000, Shelton was a pastor at Community Church of God in Dunn Loring, Virginia.
Shelton pled guilty in July to two counts of taking indecent liberties with a child under his supervision as part of a plea deal. This past Monday a Fairfax County Circuit Court judge rejected the plea deal.
According to the November 15th, Washington Post, Judge Bellows said "there's no expression of remorse. This submission doesn't even acknowledge that he committed the offense... I've got a plea to two very serious charges, that involves no jail time. And on top of it, I've got a defendant that's expressing no remorse, and I've got victims that are willing to participate in the litigation. I'm trying to understand why I would accept this agreement."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/15/AR2010111506949.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/15/AR2010111506949.html)
The case is scheduled to go to the Grand Jury on December 21.
SNAP believes there may be other victims of Shelton here in Virginia as well as in Illinois that haven’t come forward yet.
Shelton previously worked at Ezra Community of God Church in West Frankfort in southern Illinois.
The victims are being represented by Attorney Michael Reck, 714-742-6593, MReck@manlytstewart.com
CONTACT: Becky Ianni 703-801-6044, SNAPVirginia@cox.net,
David Clohessy 314-566-9790 SNAPclohessy@aol.com,
Barbara Blaine 312-399-4747, SNAPblaine@gmail.com
Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests
www.snapnetwork.org
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Quite honestly, I'd never give that organization a second look. They appear to be just a bunch of media hounds.
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Well, Well, Pastor Dryden does read over here!!!! I was told that Pastor Dryden called the director of SNAP at 7:15 am to try to discourage her from coming today.
Pastor- If you can read this-why can't you answer my questions?????
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Quite honestly, I'd never give that organization a second look. They appear to be just a bunch of media hounds.
Will you please share why you came to this conclusion? Thanks
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Well, Well, Pastor Dryden does read over here!!!! I was told that Pastor Dryden called the director of SNAP at 7:15 am to try to discourage her from coming today.
Pastor- If you can read this-why can't you answer my questions?????
Did you hear if the SNAP folks went to the church or if they were persuaded not to?
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There were 5 (I believe) people from SNAP who peacefully handed out literature to the congregants of the Church at Dunn Loring as they exited the morning service.
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That is correct. They showed up anyway. My understanding is that most was very accepted. They did have problems with a couple, who claim Tommy's innocent.
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There were 5 (I believe) people from SNAP who peacefully handed out literature to the congregants of the Church at Dunn Loring as they exited the morning service.
You sound like a member of the church.....by any chance can you get Pastor Glenn Dryden to answer my questions?
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I do know Pastor Dryden and I am certain that he is capable of deciding for himself whether or not to answer your questions (I assume you mean those posed in another thread). The level of animosity I see directed towards him causes me to suspect that no answer he could possibly give would ever satisfy his vilifiers. But I could certainly be mistaken.
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Welcome, vestedinterest! I appreciate your perspective!
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I do know Pastor Dryden and I am certain that he is capable of deciding for himself whether or not to answer your questions (I assume you mean those posed in another thread). The level of animosity I see directed towards him causes me to suspect that no answer he could possibly give would ever satisfy his vilifiers. But I could certainly be mistaken.
Excuse me? Animosity?
You are telling me that people should not need to know why on earth his signature appeared on Tommy's renewal license far after Dryden was "bringing Tommy down".
I'm sorry but Animoisity is allowing a pervert to continue to harm children. When Dryden signed his signature on there he was giving Tommy a free pass to hurt more.
Does Dryden sincerely care more about his "fame and prestige" than to refuse to sign?
You may call it whatever you wish, but I call it two-faced.
Dryden is not by any means innocent when he signed his signaure as late as 2001.
Animosity is a good term, The victims should have alot of it towards someone who claimed to be on their side, then when an investigation discovers he was in the mix!!!
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Also you use the term "vilifier" which means- "To make vicious and defamatory statements about."
Please use another term. These are not vicious defamatory statments...
These are fact. Does Glenn Dryden deny his signatures appearing on Tommy's 2001 ordination certificate?
If he does I can prove him to be a liar.
That is not a "vicious defamatory statment" it is fact.
So, I kindly ask you to rephrase that or appologize. Your choice.
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Welcome, vestedinterest.
Adam, is there any answer that Brother Dryden might give that would satisfy you?
There are posts around here that come across as if there is a bit of dislike for him. That is unfortunate, in my opinion.
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I do not know Glenn Dryden to like or dislike him, Bob.
Out of all folks, I would think you would be for this line of questioning.
All Dryden has to do is be honest. Why on earth did he sign Tommy's re-newal license. WHY? That's all I want to know.
Why did he sign them far after he was trying to "bring Tommy down."
I believe these are fair questions. I am sure the answers will be found if Dryden is demanded to go to court. Maybe even be named in a suit? Who knows.
It appears that he is taking the "cowards" way out, just as he did when the reporter knocked on his door.
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Maybe Vestedinterest is Glenn Dryden, or his wife Judy?
Sure does use alot of "fancy" language like Glenn Dryden.
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Can we get off this rabbit trail? :rabbit:
I agree Bro. Dryden needs to show where his loyalty lies. I further agree that he has questions he needs to answer. However, publically criticizing him in open forum is not the way to go.
I have known Bro. Dryden since I was in second or third grade. He and I have had our share of issues in the past. However, openly criticizing him in public is not healthy for anyone involved.
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Welcome, vestedinterest.
Adam, is there any answer that Brother Dryden might give that would satisfy you?
There are posts around here that come across as if there is a bit of dislike for him. That is unfortunate, in my opinion.
Well Bob, all I can say is that you obviously have never had occasion to disagree with Glenn Dryden. He becomes very hard to get along with if you challenge him on anything.
Have you had to sit under his pastorate and watch him run off youth after youth, most of which you yourself worked very hard to keep on church to begin with? Have you ever had him pass around a letter behind your back to the parents of the youth, one that was designed to damage your credibility? Have you ever heard him tell the congregation, from the pulpit, that you needed to allow God to move in your life, then deny he ever said it when he found out you heard it? Have you ever had him go to three families of youth in your church and tell them you were removed from the bus ministry for doing "inappropriate things with children", then lie to you about it and go threaten those three families into silence when you confront him?
Nah, didn't think so.
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Quite honestly, I'd never give that organization a second look. They appear to be just a bunch of media hounds.
Will you please share why you came to this conclusion? Thanks
Certainly. It was the self serving press release they sent out. You don't help victims by making a big production of how "concerned and caring" you are. I'd almost be willing to bet that their literature is laced with pro-counselor propaganda.
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Maybe Vestedinterest is Glenn Dryden, or his wife Judy?
Sure does use alot of "fancy" language like Glenn Dryden.
Adam, I am flattered that you find words like "animosity" and "vilifiers" to be fancy! I can assure you, however, that I am not fancy at all, just a regular homespun person with a decent command of the language!
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Didn't deny being Dryden, either. Not that he hasn't denied things in the past that he has done.
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Welcome, vestedinterest.
Adam, is there any answer that Brother Dryden might give that would satisfy you?
There are posts around here that come across as if there is a bit of dislike for him. That is unfortunate, in my opinion.
Well Bob, all I can say is that you obviously have never had occasion to disagree with Glenn Dryden. He becomes very hard to get along with if you challenge him on anything.
Have you had to sit under his pastorate and watch him run off youth after youth, most of which you yourself worked very hard to keep on church to begin with? Have you ever had him pass around a letter behind your back to the parents of the youth, one that was designed to damage your credibility? Have you ever heard him tell the congregation, from the pulpit, that you needed to allow God to move in your life, then deny he ever said it when he found out you heard it? Have you ever had him go to three families of youth in your church and tell them you were removed from the bus ministry for doing "inappropriate things with children", then lie to you about it and go threaten those three families into silence when you confront him?
Nah, didn't think so.
Dear Duane,
It is hard to imagine what you have been through in this long painful saga, but your posts ring with pain, bitterness, and anger. There is probably not an outcome that would suit you, because nothing can fix or undo what has been done. Nonetheless, your unrelenting vendetta against Pastor Dryden undermines your cause. At times it sounds like you want Tommy Shelton to be held accountable, yet somehow you throw Glenn Dryden into the mix as someone who has harmed you, perhaps more than Tommy.(Personally, I have known Glenn Dryden since 1991, and we have had many disagreements/differences of opinion and I have NEVER seen him behave in any way other than one that reflected the character of a Godly man) Now you are criticizing SNAP because they use publicity as a way to try to reach silent victims of abuse. I don't know you, but based on your posts, it would seem that you are full of hatred. Is there anything someone could do for you that might ease your pain? I mean that sincerely - no one deserves to live under such oppression.
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Yes. Meddlers like you could stop your accusations against me and mind your own business.
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And by the way, Dryden threw himself into the mix when he stucl his nose into something that was none of his business. I've waited for years for an apology, and received none. Now he gets to reap the rewards of his nosiness.
I can honestly say, even after what Tommy did to me, an entire week with him would be far more tolerable than 5 minutes with Glenn Dryden.
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And by the way, Dryden threw himself into the mix when he stucl his nose into something that was none of his business. I've waited for years for an apology, and received none. Now he gets to reap the rewards of his nosiness.
I can honestly say, even after what Tommy did to me, an entire week with him would be far more tolerable than 5 minutes with Glenn Dryden.
I find that interesting. Very. But I have no ax to grind with you, and have made no accusations. I don't consider myself a meddler because, well, friend I do have a VESTED INTEREST. But I wish you peace.
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Just get your facts straight before you jump me about exposing a fake.
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Just get your facts straight before you jump me about exposing a fake.
Case in point: I definitely have not "jumped" you! My facts are in good order, and come from multiple sources, but I am not expounding on anything whatsoever. I merely said I had NOT had the kind of experiences with Pastor Dryden that you cite, that I am sorry for your pain, and that your vitriolic posts undermine your cause. I have nothing but love and compassion for you, Duane, whether you want it or not.
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Yeah, right.
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One thing we need to think about from time to time is what will we do if those who have done us wrong repent and end up in heaven. Will we still want to go? How will Stephen relate to Saul of Tarsus, who was to blame for Stephen's death, and Stephen knew it?
I guess the greatest example of that kind of thing is Christ Himself. I drove the nails into His hands, as it were. How could He ever stand to be around me throughout eternity?
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I googled SNAP and am impressed with their work.
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So did I, and as I suspected all they're trying to do is drum up business for counselors. Just another dime-a-dozen bunch who consider abuse victims too stupid to deal with things on our own.
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So did I, and as I suspected all they're trying to do is drum up business for counselors. Just another dime-a-dozen bunch who consider abuse victims too stupid to deal with things on our own.
Sounds like you're not a big fan of counseling.... I know when I have a headache I take an aspirin and am glad for the relief, and if someone says,"You're weak (or stupid) because you need an aspirin to get rid of your headache" I would likely reply, "yep, gonna do it every time I hurt". It's okay to get some help working through something so life-altering as (pastoral) abuse.. If you haven't sought help so far, would you at least consider it?
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You don't understand English very well, do you? I said mind your own business. I have God, and He's all I need. I don't need to pay some egghead with no life experience who is simply too lazy to work for a living.
Enough already. Drop it.
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Shhhh. You're not in charge of me! I say things because I want to, not because I "don't understand English very well" LOL
But if you are happy being unhappy, go for it. God IS all you need, but gotta wonder if you're making use of all the resources HE has placed at your disposal. Our mark of identity is supposed to be LOVE (John 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.) How's that workin' for ya?
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So did I, and as I suspected all they're trying to do is drum up business for counselors. Just another dime-a-dozen bunch who consider abuse victims too stupid to deal with things on our own.
...I have God, and He's all I need. I don't need to pay some egghead with no life experience who is simply too lazy to work for a living.
I respectfully disagree with your total disregard for counseling. I do agree that counsel from the Lord is the way to go and trumps all other counsel. However, seeking counsel from wise Christian people around us is Biblical, as long as that counsel is weighed in light of God's Word.
Without counsel, plans go awry, But in the multitude of counselors they are established. (Proverbs 15:22 NKJV)
Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed. (Proverbs 15:22 NIV)
Listen to counsel and receive instruction, That you may be wise in your latter days. There are many plans in a man’s heart, Nevertheless the LORD’s counsel—that will stand. (Proverbs 19:20-21 NKJV)
Listen to advice and accept discipline, and at the end you will be counted among the wise. Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the LORD’s purpose that prevails. (Proverbs 19:20-21 NIV)
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, But he who heeds counsel is wise. (Proverbs 12:15 NKJV)
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Can we get off this rabbit trail? :rabbit:
I agree Bro. Dryden needs to show where his loyalty lies. I further agree that he has questions he needs to answer. However, publically criticizing him in open forum is not the way to go.
I have known Bro. Dryden since I was in second or third grade. He and I have had our share of issues in the past. However, openly criticizing him in public is not healthy for anyone involved.
:dogwag:
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SNAP is primarily made up of people with life experience in the matter they are addressing. It is nice that they have stepped out to help others who have been in similar circumstances. These are people of action, and actions speak louder than words.
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Yes, the people who stopped by the Church in Dunn Loring introduced themselves as abuse survivors, and I was impressed with their demeanor.
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I wasn't going to tell this story, but "VestedInterest" has encouraged me to do so.
Glenn Dryden was my principal at Ezra for several years. There was one incident that he did that was far from "Godly".
I was accused of an act by Pastor Dryden one evening. He accused me of it and even suspended me from school. Even far after other people had told him I was innocent of this that he accused me of.
Duane's mother at that time was my teacher. I remember her telling me "Alex, I don't know why he won't listen." She appologized to me for the way he was acting.
There are other incidents that I could explain, but will not. That involved disagreements with his wife.
I can say this- Dryden's wife has appologized to me in person, but I have never received any kind of apology from him.
"Vested Interest" you have no right to attack Duane. He is one of few people that I would trust with anything. Before you spout off protecting Dryden... please get your facts straight.
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Welcome, vestedinterest.
Adam, is there any answer that Brother Dryden might give that would satisfy you?
There are posts around here that come across as if there is a bit of dislike for him. That is unfortunate, in my opinion.
Well Bob, all I can say is that you obviously have never had occasion to disagree with Glenn Dryden. He becomes very hard to get along with if you challenge him on anything.
Have you had to sit under his pastorate and watch him run off youth after youth, most of which you yourself worked very hard to keep on church to begin with? Have you ever had him pass around a letter behind your back to the parents of the youth, one that was designed to damage your credibility? Have you ever heard him tell the congregation, from the pulpit, that you needed to allow God to move in your life, then deny he ever said it when he found out you heard it? Have you ever had him go to three families of youth in your church and tell them you were removed from the bus ministry for doing "inappropriate things with children", then lie to you about it and go threaten those three families into silence when you confront him?
Nah, didn't think so.
Dear Duane,
It is hard to imagine what you have been through in this long painful saga, but your posts ring with pain, bitterness, and anger. There is probably not an outcome that would suit you, because nothing can fix or undo what has been done. Nonetheless, your unrelenting vendetta against Pastor Dryden undermines your cause. At times it sounds like you want Tommy Shelton to be held accountable, yet somehow you throw Glenn Dryden into the mix as someone who has harmed you, perhaps more than Tommy.(Personally, I have known Glenn Dryden since 1991, and we have had many disagreements/differences of opinion and I have NEVER seen him behave in any way other than one that reflected the character of a Godly man) Now you are criticizing SNAP because they use publicity as a way to try to reach silent victims of abuse. I don't know you, but based on your posts, it would seem that you are full of hatred. Is there anything someone could do for you that might ease your pain? I mean that sincerely - no one deserves to live under such oppression.
Again, "Vested Interest" get your facts straight! I will admit after I found out that Dryden's singnature appeared on Tommy's renewal license that it made me question him. I believe that he does need to answer some questions. I am dumbfounded as it seems you believe that it was ok.
Also it is certainly Duane's right to demand questions too. Who are you to downgrade? Are you going to say that "I am full of hatred?" You need to look up the deffinition of "hatred". I'm done here.
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If anyone can show me Scripture where God gives us the ok to go to the world for answers to out problems, please post it. Until then, I believe I'll keep speaking out against Satan's tool of secular counseling.
And vestedinterest, I told you I have God, but yoi obviously believe that sometimes God needs help. That renders your advice totally useless.
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VestedInterest, be sure to tell Glenn Dryden that he is just as guilty as Tommy. By signing his signature to Tommy's renewal slip he allowed himself to be no better.
And Bob Pickle:
I see you ingored a line of questions that was posed to you. Why?
Hopefully Glenn Dryden is faced with legal problems in this mess- that way the truth can be known, as it seems he's to "coward" to face them now.
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Let's try this again.
Pastor Dryden:
1. Why in 2001 did your signature appear on a renewal license for Tommy R. Shelton?
2. Is it true that you was the secretary of the Ministerial council beginning in the mid to late 80's and you was responsible for making sure that renewal licenses was issued? And that you had given Tommy Shelton his even up to 2001 when he send them back to the council?
3. If it was your job to issue them, how could you in good conscience sign your name allowing him a "free ticket" to continue pastoring and hurting children?
4. Why didn't you resign your position?
It is unimaginable that you would sign your signature giving him the authority to continue to pastor even far after you was trying to "bring him down."
One must wonder was your motive truly doing what was right or was it a personal issue?
These are questions that need to be answered
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You know I have to admit, that if I were these guys I would want an answer from Pastor Dryden also. He does seem to be speaking with a forked tongued, so to speak.
Guys, is there any way you can contat him directly to pose these questions? I also agree with the premise that he might be apprehensive about answering these questions after being "busted out" on the world wide web. Just trying to find the best way to get these answers for you all. I know it is extremely important to you.
About the anger....yeah guys, you are pretty angry. However, at this point you are entitled to that anger. Healing is aprocess, and that process includes anger. I can even see at this point where you might have gone through the anger process, and now with TS on arrested and going to trial, that anger process might be revisited. Things change from day to day, and there is not guarantee that this thing will be resolved to your complete satisfaction or any portion thereof. The trick is, not to stay there in your anger.
Duane, there are christian counselors who are very good in this area. I know a few, but of course they are all on the "left coast" as they say. No need to go to the "world" or someone who doesn't understand about the healing power of God. I can understand your apprehension in going to someone who doesn't understand your faith in God.
Someone mentioned the Oprah show. They had a man who had counseled about 1,000. men who had been abused. I am not sure of his religious atanding, but I know that Tyler Perry defintiely attributes his healing to his faith in God. There maybe christian based resources to be found on Oprah's site.
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I am NOT going to a counselor. That would be like slapping God in the face. I'm perfectly capable of making my own decisions. Not another word on the subject.
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I am NOT going to a counselor. That would be like slapping God in the face. I'm perfectly capable of making my own decisions. Not another word on the subject.
:goodpost:
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Kinda like going to a pastor for spiritual help.
I am NOT going to a counselor. That would be like slapping God in the face. I'm perfectly capable of making my own decisions. Not another word on the subject.
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Actually.no, its not the same at all.
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How would it be different? A counselor is either an educated or self-proclaimed expert on emotional matters, and a pastor is either an educated or self-proclaimed expert on spiritual matters. They both presume to guide a person in decisions for their lives, in their respective areas. People entrust themselves to both, yet both are just people. I see no difference.
Actually.no, its not the same at all.
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How would it be different? A counselor is either an educated or self-proclaimed expert on emotional matters, and a pastor is either an educated or self-proclaimed expert on spiritual matters. They both presume to guide a person in decisions for their lives, in their respective areas. People entrust themselves to both, yet both are just people. I see no difference.
Actually.no, its not the same at all.
ROFL!!!! Educated? Pleasssssssssseeeeeeeee. How can you be an "expert" on something you have never experienced?
That is the same as a pastor saying he's an expert on "marriage counceling" when he's never been married!
The same is true of these "self proclaimed experts" on sex abuse. Until you have walked in a victims shoes, I'm sorry, but you're no expert.
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To a great extent, I agree with you, Adam. Both pastors and counselors deal with clientelle in matters on which they have no personal experience. But there are areas of a subject on which a person is generally considered an expert even when they haven't had personal experience. Most Cardiologists, for example, haven't had heart conditions; most historians never experienced the period of time they specialize in; and no pastor alive today ever experienced the Bible, or any part of it, in its own context. No, many counselors were never sexually abused, but many were. Indeed, many of them have gone into that field because of the abuse they suffered, and as a means of helping other people who have suffered as they did. Painting all of them with the same broad brush as inexperienced frauds is much the same as saying that all pastors are sexual perverts based on the fact that many of them are. SNAP is staffed primarily by people who have suffered sexual abuse at the hands of clergy. They are people with personal experience.
(And yes, I have had a few sad laughs at the expense of unmarried pastors engaging in marriage counseling. Lol.)
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That having been said, the only counselor I have ever been to was deplorable. He is a pastor who also holds some form of certification as a counselor. On the other hand, I heard a pastor, who also has a degree in counseling, make the statement that "it's better to be single than to wish you were." A very wise word of counsel for sure! Lol.
Ummmm, and many of the OB/Gyns I know, being men, have never had the experience of pregnancy. (Lol... I had to throw that in there. [Ducking and running for cover!!!])
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LOL...
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It is extremely arrogant and conceited of someone to call themselves a sexual abuse counselor if they haven't experienced it. A person CANNOT be "trained" for that.
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One thing we need to think about from time to time is what will we do if those who have done us wrong repent and end up in heaven. Will we still want to go? How will Stephen relate to Saul of Tarsus, who was to blame for Stephen's death, and Stephen knew it?
I guess the greatest example of that kind of thing is Christ Himself. I drove the nails into His hands, as it were. How could He ever stand to be around me throughout eternity?
BOB!!! Seriously, stop!
I know where your going with this....
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So.... VestedInterest... get's quiet when they have been outed, eh?
Yep, I knew it was Glenn Dryden.
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Veritas vos liberabit, my friend!
One thing we need to think about from time to time is what will we do if those who have done us wrong repent and end up in heaven. Will we still want to go? How will Stephen relate to Saul of Tarsus, who was to blame for Stephen's death, and Stephen knew it?
I guess the greatest example of that kind of thing is Christ Himself. I drove the nails into His hands, as it were. How could He ever stand to be around me throughout eternity?
BOB!!! Seriously, stop!
I know where your going with this....
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So.... VestedInterest... get's quiet when they have been outed, eh?
Yep, I knew it was Glenn Dryden.
ROFL you are killin' me, Adam! I'm a girl, for one thing! Second thing, I was in a meeting at work all day, but it is so nice to be missed! And just out of curiosity, Adam, I admittedly don't have a dog in this fight, but there is definitely fallout all the way to VA as we well know... how about you? You sound like you have an axe to grind... care to share?
Meanwhile - hey, Thanksgiving, right? Am thankful for the gift of free speech! xoxo
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It appears that multiple users are using the name "vestedInterest".
If you take a close look at the writing styles from each post, you will notice that they are different each time.
I still contend that Pastor Dryden is one of them.
And if not....why can't you get Pastor Dryden to answer my questions?
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Princessdi, my dear friend.
Why would anyone take Glenn Dryden's word as credible? The whole time that he was acting that he was on the side of the "victims" he was enpowering tommy to continue pastoring.
I'm going to share this story with permission of course.
I was told that at the hearing that Tommy plead guilty - He (Glenn) sent a member of his board there. His name is Keith Jacobs. Keith Jacobs came up to the two victims shook their hand and told them, "I am here to support you all." --- Now listen to this!!! Immediately after he said that- he went over and hugged Tommy- and sat by Tommy the entire wait for the hearing to start. Immediately after the hearing was over guess who was hugging and next to Tommy again???? Yours Truely Keith Jacobs.
Can you imagine how that made the two victims feel? Here is a guy that claims to be on their side. Possibly says two words to them, then is over kissing Tommy's back end.
Make sense? Of course it don't. This is the type of pople that are attending that church. Hyppocrits!!!! And their pastor is the biggest one!
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Meanwhile - hey, Thanksgiving, right? Am thankful for the gift of free speech! xoxo
"Give me Liberty, or give me Death!" is a famous quotation attributed to Patrick Henry from a speech he made to the Virginia Convention. It was given on March 23, 1775, at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia, and is credited with having swung the balance in convincing the Virginia House of Burgesses to pass a resolution delivering the Virginia troops to the Revolutionary War. Among the delegates to the convention were future US Presidents Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. Reportedly, those in attendance, upon hearing the speech, shouted, "give me liberty or give me death!" - Wikipedia
"God Bless America" is an American patriotic song written by Irving Berlin in 1918 and revised by him in 1938, as sung by Kate Smith (becoming her signature song).
"God Bless America" takes the form of a prayer (intro lyrics "as we raise our voices, in a solemn prayer") for God's blessing and peace for the nation ("...stand beside her and guide her through the night...").
What makes America such a great nation?
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One more question for Pastor Dryden. Are you going to sue me? Please do.
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Why are you, Adam and Duane, assuming that all counselors have not "walked in your shoes"? I completely understand your point. I tell people all the time I take no advice about being single from someone who has been married for any decent amount of time. So I know what you mean. However, in this case, it can be very well that the counselor has been abused. A little realized fact is that many counselors/psychologist/pyschariatist are led to that profession from "working through their own stuff".
I have to disagree with you, Duane, it is not like slapping God in the face. He places "help" for us here on earth all the time. it is the reason why the Bible puts so much emphasis on encouraging, upholding each other, bearing one another's burdens, and fellowship, while it also says that we have encourage ourselves. There is a time and season fro everything. Somethings we work out with God and God alone, others times He sends one of His children who are trained, educated, spiritually gifted and/or a personal testimony to help us. It seems to me that it is actually you who is dictating to God in which way you will accept His help, limiting His ability to actually help you when He actually has limitless resources.
Now, I understand that you are happy just where you are, but just some thoughts for you to ponder. Hopefully this will be my last word on this matter as I am not trying to coerce you into going to see a counselor.
ROFL!!!! Educated? Pleasssssssssseeeeeeeee. How can you be an "expert" on something you have never experienced?
That is the same as a pastor saying he's an expert on "marriage counceling" when he's never been married!
The same is true of these "self proclaimed experts" on sex abuse. Until you have walked in a victims shoes, I'm sorry, but you're no expert.
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Veritas vos liberabit, my friend!
Veritas vos liberabit (Latin) is a variant of Veritas liberabit vos (the truth shall set you free), verse 8:32 of the Gospel of John.
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Di...
Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.
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LOL!!! You don't need to run for cover, Murcielago. That should be a point well taken!
I have to agree that the term and training for (counselors) has become...shall we say..interesting in the past 20 years or so. I have seen(not for personal issues, Thanks God!) some folks who say they have certification in counselling, and it was nothing nice.
That having been said, the only counselor I have ever been to was deplorable. He is a pastor who also holds some form of certification as a counselor. On the other hand, I heard a pastor, who also has a degree in counseling, make the statement that "it's better to be single than to wish you were." A very wise word of counsel for sure! Lol.
Ummmm, and many of the OB/Gyns I know, being men, have never had the experience of pregnancy. (Lol... I had to throw that in there. [Ducking and running for cover!!!])
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Expand your horizons, Adam. Not most, just the ones you were unfortunate enough to run into. I know what you mean. The first psychiatrist who ran into the women whose story is well known as "Three Faces of Eve' only exploited her, did not help, and in fact created several more personalities from the exploitation. Not that there aren't frauds out there, but there are some good people, also(Iknow a few of them). That is why I directed you to Oprah's site. They have resources, and people who are checked out with experience in this matter. I forgot to mention that I alsot hought that they said that there were some website where you can just talk with other surviving victims.
Di...
Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.
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Di...
Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.
We all have different experiences - and in the United States of America - thank God - we have the liberty to tell others what we have experienced. However, the American law of Liberty forbids me to force my opinion of my encounters upon the conscience of another person. This is based on the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Di...
Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.
We all have different experiences - and in the United States of America - thank God - we have the liberty to tell others what we have experienced. However, the American law of Liberty forbids me to force my opinion of my encounters upon the conscience of another person. This is based on the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Johann my dear friend:
I agree with your statement. However, I am at lost at what the last part is meaning. Is it fair to say that my discouragement of these "low lifes" is the same as others encouragment to visit them?
Thanks.
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No Adam. Put bluntly, but lovingly, is that you call counselors/psschiatrist/psychologist "low-lifes" when you have only had experience with a few in comparison to the thousands, maybe millions that are out there.
As an alternative, you can, say "the counselors I have tried have all been frauds, so I am reluctant to try again.
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Di...
Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.
We all have different experiences - and in the United States of America - thank God - we have the liberty to tell others what we have experienced. However, the American law of Liberty forbids me to force my opinion of my encounters upon the conscience of another person. This is based on the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Johann my dear friend:
I agree with your statement. However, I am at lost at what the last part is meaning. Is it fair to say that my discouragement of these "low lifes" is the same as others encouragment to visit them?
Thanks.
On my first visit to New York City I got cheated by a merchant who sold me a shirt (the year was 1952). Does that mean I can force you to believe that all traders in New York are evil?
I have a friend who can't stand McDonald's. Does that mean I either have to oppose him or agree with him in order to remain his friend?
I also have a very good friend who believes firmly in infant baptism. Should I ask the police to remove him from my vicinity unless he changes his conviction?
And then there are good friends I have who were sexually molested by a member of the family and they received a great spiritual blessing by talking to a counsellor. That counsellor was also a Lutheran pastor. Should I now, years later, ask them to remove any help they received at that time because they should never have talked to any counsellor - or that they should have gone to a pastor of their own church? (I am not revealing a secret because the story has been published - told by one of the victims.)
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One thing we need to think about from time to time is what will we do if those who have done us wrong repent and end up in heaven. Will we still want to go? How will Stephen relate to Saul of Tarsus, who was to blame for Stephen's death, and Stephen knew it?
I guess the greatest example of that kind of thing is Christ Himself. I drove the nails into His hands, as it were. How could He ever stand to be around me throughout eternity?
BOB!!! Seriously, stop!
I know where your going with this....
It's the truth. And I had to deal with something akin to this when I was in high school.
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Di...
Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.
We all have different experiences - and in the United States of America - thank God - we have the liberty to tell others what we have experienced. However, the American law of Liberty forbids me to force my opinion of my encounters upon the conscience of another person. This is based on the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Johann my dear friend:
I agree with your statement. However, I am at lost at what the last part is meaning. Is it fair to say that my discouragement of these "low lifes" is the same as others encouragment to visit them?
Thanks.
On my first visit to New York City I got cheated by a merchant who sold me a shirt (the year was 1952). Does that mean I can force you to believe that all traders in New York are evil?
I have a friend who can't stand McDonald's. Does that mean I either have to oppose him or agree with him in order to remain his friend?
I also have a very good friend who believes firmly in infant baptism. Should I ask the police to remove him from my vicinity unless he changes his conviction?
And then there are good friends I have who were sexually molested by a member of the family and they received a great spiritual blessing by talking to a counsellor. That counsellor was also a Lutheran pastor. Should I now, years later, ask them to remove any help they received at that time because they should never have talked to any counsellor - or that they should have gone to a pastor of their own church? (I am not revealing a secret because the story has been published - told by one of the victims.)
Johann my dear friend:
You failed to answer my question.
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Di...
Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.
We all have different experiences - and in the United States of America - thank God - we have the liberty to tell others what we have experienced. However, the American law of Liberty forbids me to force my opinion of my encounters upon the conscience of another person. This is based on the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Johann my dear friend:
I agree with your statement. However, I am at lost at what the last part is meaning. Is it fair to say that my discouragement of these "low lifes" is the same as others encouragment to visit them?
Thanks.
On my first visit to New York City I got cheated by a merchant who sold me a shirt (the year was 1952). Does that mean I can force you to believe that all traders in New York are evil?
I have a friend who can't stand McDonald's. Does that mean I either have to oppose him or agree with him in order to remain his friend?
I also have a very good friend who believes firmly in infant baptism. Should I ask the police to remove him from my vicinity unless he changes his conviction?
And then there are good friends I have who were sexually molested by a member of the family and they received a great spiritual blessing by talking to a counsellor. That counsellor was also a Lutheran pastor. Should I now, years later, ask them to remove any help they received at that time because they should never have talked to any counsellor - or that they should have gone to a pastor of their own church? (I am not revealing a secret because the story has been published - told by one of the victims.)
Johann my dear friend:
You failed to answer my question.
Perables to help you see the larger picture. . . Shall I give you a few more, my friend?
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Adam, I glad to hear you call me friend, as I have no issue with you, and i think youa re a pretty decent guy.
Yeah I know what you mean. Iknow of a story, that I can't tell because I don'tave permission, that is even wilder that this one. Sad, isn't it? I am not sure why these people don't see that they continue to victimized these young men when they do stuff like that!
Princessdi, my dear friend.
Why would anyone take Glenn Dryden's word as credible? The whole time that he was acting that he was on the side of the "victims" he was enpowering tommy to continue pastoring.
I'm going to share this story with permission of course.
I was told that at the hearing that Tommy plead guilty - He (Glenn) sent a member of his board there. His name is Keith Jacobs. Keith Jacobs came up to the two victims shook their hand and told them, "I am here to support you all." --- Now listen to this!!! Immediately after he said that- he went over and hugged Tommy- and sat by Tommy the entire wait for the hearing to start. Immediately after the hearing was over guess who was hugging and next to Tommy again???? Yours Truely Keith Jacobs.
Can you imagine how that made the two victims feel? Here is a guy that claims to be on their side. Possibly says two words to them, then is over kissing Tommy's back end.
Make sense? Of course it don't. This is the type of pople that are attending that church. Hyppocrits!!!! And their pastor is the biggest one!
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Di...
Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.
We all have different experiences - and in the United States of America - thank God - we have the liberty to tell others what we have experienced. However, the American law of Liberty forbids me to force my opinion of my encounters upon the conscience of another person. This is based on the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Johann my dear friend:
I agree with your statement. However, I am at lost at what the last part is meaning. Is it fair to say that my discouragement of these "low lifes" is the same as others encouragment to visit them?
Thanks.
On my first visit to New York City I got cheated by a merchant who sold me a shirt (the year was 1952). Does that mean I can force you to believe that all traders in New York are evil?
I have a friend who can't stand McDonald's. Does that mean I either have to oppose him or agree with him in order to remain his friend?
I also have a very good friend who believes firmly in infant baptism. Should I ask the police to remove him from my vicinity unless he changes his conviction?
And then there are good friends I have who were sexually molested by a member of the family and they received a great spiritual blessing by talking to a counsellor. That counsellor was also a Lutheran pastor. Should I now, years later, ask them to remove any help they received at that time because they should never have talked to any counsellor - or that they should have gone to a pastor of their own church? (I am not revealing a secret because the story has been published - told by one of the victims.)
Johann my dear friend:
You failed to answer my question.
Perables to help you see the larger picture. . . Shall I give you a few more, my friend?
Johann: I want it to be known that I have tremendous respect for you. You have given your life to the service of God. You are truly an example of a life that God can use if we will only allow him to.
I understand what you mean completely. My point lies here. I am not a pastor nor am I a counselor. However, I am very familiar with the way's these "self proclaimed experts" work. As I have not had good experiences with them.
Having said that....I am glad that they have been of use to some, folks. I just have an issue with people cramming down people's throats that they should see these menaces.
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Adam, I glad to hear you call me friend, as I have no issue with you, and i think youa re a pretty decent guy.
Yeah I know what you mean. Iknow of a story, that I can't tell because I don'tave permission, that is even wilder that this one. Sad, isn't it? I am not sure why these people don't see that they continue to victimized these young men when they do stuff like that!
Princessdi, my dear friend.
Why would anyone take Glenn Dryden's word as credible? The whole time that he was acting that he was on the side of the "victims" he was enpowering tommy to continue pastoring.
I'm going to share this story with permission of course.
I was told that at the hearing that Tommy plead guilty - He (Glenn) sent a member of his board there. His name is Keith Jacobs. Keith Jacobs came up to the two victims shook their hand and told them, "I am here to support you all." --- Now listen to this!!! Immediately after he said that- he went over and hugged Tommy- and sat by Tommy the entire wait for the hearing to start. Immediately after the hearing was over guess who was hugging and next to Tommy again???? Yours Truely Keith Jacobs.
Can you imagine how that made the two victims feel? Here is a guy that claims to be on their side. Possibly says two words to them, then is over kissing Tommy's back end.
Make sense? Of course it don't. This is the type of pople that are attending that church. Hyppocrits!!!! And their pastor is the biggest one!
Likewise, Di! Your input is always appreicated. It is sickning to learn that people you believe you can "trust" are actually in the mix. I have spoken to both victims and I assure you..they are at total loss why a "man of God" would act as though he was on their side...to learn that he was empowering their abuser.
I am also at loss, and I will not mention names...why some on here who have been faithful to the cause of letting the public know about "hiding things" are now standing with Glenn Dryden.
How can you not be furious at the fact that dammaging information about the same man who has been on Tommy's trail for so long was actually "enabling him"?
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Why are you, Adam and Duane, assuming that all counselors have not "walked in your shoes"? I completely understand your point. I tell people all the time I take no advice about being single from someone who has been married for any decent amount of time. So I know what you mean. However, in this case, it can be very well that the counselor has been abused. A little realized fact is that many counselors/psychologist/pyschariatist are led to that profession from "working through their own stuff".
I have to disagree with you, Duane, it is not like slapping God in the face. He places "help" for us here on earth all the time. it is the reason why the Bible puts so much emphasis on encouraging, upholding each other, bearing one another's burdens, and fellowship, while it also says that we have encourage ourselves. There is a time and season fro everything. Somethings we work out with God and God alone, others times He sends one of His children who are trained, educated, spiritually gifted and/or a personal testimony to help us. It seems to me that it is actually you who is dictating to God in which way you will accept His help, limiting His ability to actually help you when He actually has limitless resources.
Now, I understand that you are happy just where you are, but just some thoughts for you to ponder. Hopefully this will be my last word on this matter as I am not trying to coerce you into going to see a counselor.
ROFL!!!! Educated? Pleasssssssssseeeeeeeee. How can you be an "expert" on something you have never experienced?
That is the same as a pastor saying he's an expert on "marriage counceling" when he's never been married!
The same is true of these "self proclaimed experts" on sex abuse. Until you have walked in a victims shoes, I'm sorry, but you're no expert.
I see. Since I am limiting God, then its best that I'm not even here. I bid you all Godspeed.
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I am glad you said something Duane. I am pulling out of here too. Especially considering the support for Glenn Dryden. I am encouraging Adam to do the same.
May God Bless you all.
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Re: counselors: The psychology course I took as a freshman in college made me suspicious of modern psychology. But Freud's nonsense and perverse mind does not negate the truth of Pr. 11:14.
I am also at loss, and I will not mention names...why some on here who have been faithful to the cause of letting the public know about "hiding things" are now standing with Glenn Dryden.
How can you not be furious at the fact that dammaging information about the same man who has been on Tommy's trail for so long was actually "enabling him"?
There are questions that it will be helpful if he would answer. However, one question has perhaps already been answered.
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One more question for Pastor Dryden. Are you going to sue me? Please do.
Why would Pastor Dryden sue you, Adam? ( I guess I am asking rhetorically, since I read later that you have "pulled out").
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One more question for Pastor Dryden. Are you going to sue me? Please do.
Why would Pastor Dryden sue you, Adam? ( I guess I am asking rhetorically, since I read later that you have "pulled out").
Exactly- why would you sue me Glenn? Let's think about that for a minute.
First, would it be smart on your part?
Nahhhhhhhh, I don't think so. Why? Because then you would be exposed.
So of course you wouldn't sue me.
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Having said that... I am going to take the advice of my dear friend and join him and Duane. I am going to have to refrain from posting here. However, if I feel that things need to be explained or questions asked...I will be back.
It's been fun.....
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So...you are going to refrain from posting here until you are back?
Having said that... I am going to take the advice of my dear friend and join him and Duane. I am going to have to refrain from posting here. However, if I feel that things need to be explained or questions asked...I will be back.
It's been fun.....
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So...you are going to refrain from posting here until you are back?
Having said that... I am going to take the advice of my dear friend and join him and Duane. I am going to have to refrain from posting here. However, if I feel that things need to be explained or questions asked...I will be back.
It's been fun.....
Snoopy my dear Snoopy,
What exactly does that mean?
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So...you are going to refrain from posting here until you are back?
Having said that... I am going to take the advice of my dear friend and join him and Duane. I am going to have to refrain from posting here. However, if I feel that things need to be explained or questions asked...I will be back.
It's been fun.....
Snoopy my dear Snoopy,
What exactly does that mean?
You tell me, my dear Adam. I am just trying to clarify what you said.
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ADMIN HAT ON
Please note that it is not necessary for members to announce their comings and goings from this forum. If you are angry about something, we are truly sorry and would be happy to take it up with you PRIVATELY. But please do remember that this is a public forum, discussing public issues, and welcoming public opinion. Just because someone posts their opinion here that might differ from yours does not make this a bad forum.
ADMIN HAT OFF
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Counselors:
Some counselors help some people, some do not. One must always chose wisely and well and that is not always easy.
I can understand those who chose not to go to a counselor.
I can understand those who chose to go to a counselor.
Eash person is responsible for the choices that they make in regard to their lives and how and from whom they seek help.
Let us all respect those choices that one makes and not criticize those who make choices different from what we might make for ourselves.
NOTE: In the above, one could replace teh work "counselors" with the word "clergy" and my statemets would be true.
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Gregory, you are right, the decision to seek counseling is a personal one. I liken it to childbirth - you can decline the epidural and go au natural, or you can take the epidural and sidestep the pain. Neither way is right/wrong.... in the realm of counseling, I was more or less discouraged by my church family from seeking help, and I toughed it out for a long time, til I was practically catatonic with a dash of suicidal. Starting the "therapy" process was tough (but I did choose Christian counselors) , but along the way I was able to see what I WAS responsible for, and what I WASN't responsible for; that if my parents failed me when I was young, it might influence me as an adult, but ultimately I still could make choices.... and with God's help I could get out of the pit of despair, and start inching my way forward. What a blessed relief it was for me! That is the only reason I encourage others on that path... but for those who feel it would be offensive to God, they should refrain. No epidural in that case.
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ADMIN HAT ON
Please note that it is not necessary for members to announce their comings and goings from this forum. If you are angry about something, we are truly sorry and would be happy to take it up with you PRIVATELY. But please do remember that this is a public forum, discussing public issues, and welcoming public opinion. Just because someone posts their opinion here that might differ from yours does not make this a bad forum.
ADMIN HAT OFF
I was going to respond to this, but I will send you my concerns privately.
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My concerns have been sent to Johann. I have graciously asked him to pass them on. Thanks.
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Thank you Alex.
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Well, for one, I am sorry to see you guys go. I would like to say that I am sorry if it was in anyway something that I said.
You have my continued prayers for your healing, and most importantly God's love, peace and joy in your lives.
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I totally understand the distrust of counselors as some clergy act as counselors and counselors form similar relationships with their counselees as clergy do with their congregants. Some counselors abuse their positions as some clergy abuse their positions. Marriage counselors have sometimes been known to seduce wives of couples they were "working with". Psychiatrists have occasionally been known to seduce patients etc. Once one's trust has been betrayed by an authority figure it feels too unsafe to ever allow oneself to become that vulnerable and trusting ever again.
And I hate to see anyone leave too.
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Kinda like going to a pastor for spiritual help.
I am NOT going to a counselor. That would be like slapping God in the face. I'm perfectly capable of making my own decisions. Not another word on the subject.
:goodpost:
Good point, Murcielago. And as far as I know, counselors have educational and licensing requirements.
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Sometimes the kitchen gets hot and there are those who have to cut and run. As my grandma would say if the kitchen is to hot, well just leave. Sometimes the strength of ones convictions are tested in public forums and because they are so absurd the responses to them send people scurrying back into the place from which they came. All I can say is Gods speed and it is those who are left in the forum who will be the Judge of those who have left, as to the validity of their opinions. We who are left have a responsibility to continue the fight for sound thinking and the cut and runners, well, they are just that "cut and runners". Silence for me is all the proof I need that my reasoning has won out over others. There is a sweet victory in watching sound arguments win out over insanity and illogical thinking, so I simply say God's speed cut your loses and good night.
Well, for one, I am sorry to see you guys go. I would like to say that I am sorry if it was in anyway something that I said.
You have my continued prayers for your healing, and most importantly God's love, peace and joy in your lives.
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Sometimes there is more than one valid opinion and we must agree to disagree. When someone else tells us what we must do, we certainly have a right to disagree and say "that isn't going to work for me." No one should be able to make us do something that we feel is wrong. I don't feel that anyone won this argument in fact we all lost some valuable input if some of our members felt uncomfortable continuing to post their opinions.
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I admit that I am new to the AT culture, and certainly there are regional differences as well; My only interest in any 3ABN posting are those relating to the current legal situation in VA for Tommy Shelton.
That being said, it would be presumptuous for me to have much of an opinion, but it seemed to me, in the preceding exchanges there has been a lot of insult-hurling, speculation, and accusation. The tone has been sarcastic, and in some circumstances quite rude, and I suppose that is one of the results of the internet's anonymity.
COTK, you are right, no one "won" anything. With regard to making someone do something they think is wrong, I didn't see much of that, only some comments to Duane about the possible benefits of counseling, to which he responded in a less-than-courteous way. I have been told on several occasions to "get the facts right" yet when I looked at my own posts I felt like I was only ever putting forth my opinion. I feel like that is mostly what I have seen from everyone, but the methods of communication range from genteel to surly, and everything in between. (And I have even been criticized for talking "fancy"!)
Clearly. emotions run high as these folks are pressed to bring into their thinking details from long ago, hurtful things, memories of deception, manipulation, being fooled, being ashamed, and so on. Because there is no clear path for retribution, it just sits there, and each person affected has to move around it in their own way..some by burying it, some by dumping a little shovelful of it onto everyone they meet, some by dis-assembling it so that it has no power, some by crawling into it and living the rest of their days covered with it, some by covering it with a fancy tablecloth and pretending there is nothing out of the ordinary. And none of us can say which way is right. One who has lost a limb has to figure out how to go through life forever crippled, and the fact that they can get from here-to-there at all is worthy of much applause and fanfare.
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Welcome vestedinterest! It's nice to have another Virginian on the site :purr:
Those that are hurting on this site have been hurting for a very long time and each time this legal situation is postponed it just makes matters worse. Each month we expect a final ending to this and a punishment for Tommy for what he has done and each month it's the same thing... another continuance. Now the plea deal has been withdrawn and he goes to trial. This just adds salt to the wound.
Since you said that you know Pastor Dryden, I assume you are a member of Dunn Loring church. How long have you been a member? I grew up in that Church from the time I was 12 till I was 19. Are you still attending?
I joined here when Tommy was arrested and have made some very good friends and very good prayer partners. We also have agreed to disagree.
I will tell you all that I was like Duane for years. I fought going to counselors. I could trust God for my physical healing, but for some reason I could NOT trust him for my mental/emotional healing- but I refused to go to a counselor- because I believed it was MY FAULT
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CON'T- FOR NOT TRUSTING God enough and not having enough faith. So I kept praying and I kept getting worse and worse. Finally my doctor made my appointment and had my husband bring me in. Well...that was a laugh :ROFL: I got this YOUNG army Doc and when I started talking about not being able to trust God- that totally blew him away.... Needless to say- counseling stopped.... then they set me up with an :ROFL: Now with the situation at home, I am back in counseling again. I don't know if this counselor is a Christian or not, but she doesn't freak out, when I talk about God and my faith. She doesn't tell me what to do, she listens mainly.. That's what I need, plus she tells me that I'm ok and I'm not going crazy :ROFL:
sorry this is so long- but sometimes therapy can help and sometimes it takes a long time to find a good therapist. We still haven't talked about my abuse- maybe I will, maybe I won't- I don't know- we'll see.
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You ladies have brought up some good points. And we aren't talking about simply months of delay. This saga has been going on nearly 30 years, or if Walt Thompson's figures are right, 34 years now.
One fellow told me that not a day goes by that he doesn't think about taking care of it himself.
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If I were Tommy, I would be afraid to leave my home and if I did, I would always be looking over my shoulder. I am sure some of those he has abused hate him so much, that they want to kill him. If they don't have God in their lives, they just might. If not they, themselves, then maybe their loved ones. If someone had abused my son, especially a pastor or teacher, I would have felt like killing them. And I know without God, I would I would have carried it out.
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Perhaps he would be somewhat safer in prison. Of course it would depend on the conditions in the prison. I have heard that some of them can be quite nice. Not like the ordinary run of the mill prisons.
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"There is a distance, a veil between us."
- Erich Maria Remarque, All Quiet On The Western Front, Ch. 7
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It was about time someone said something!
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LOL you're both funny.... not much point in pokin' the bear, though... I am sure everyone has plenty on their minds, and will be happy to see the situation resolved. In Dunn loring it has dragged on for a couple of years - imagine how long it has dragged on for the victims....
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That is like the case of the man who recently went to the rtirement home for Jesuit Priests and beat his abuser to a pulp. The man had to be hospitalized. I believe that article was referenced here. The family had gotten a settlement from teh RCC long ago, but it was jsut not enough according to this young man, who is now using the media attention on the case to make the point about those abusers who basicallyface no consequences, like this one who was nicely retired still on the RCC's dime.
I am with you Mrst.........I am sure there are a few copy cats about. Especially, with the anger and raw emotionsl expressed here. I am aware of three(3) of victims that post(or posted) here, no telling what is going on in the tortured minds of those yet to heard from.
Also, to my knowledge pedophiles(and rapists) are not "welcomed" by the general population is prisons.
If I were Tommy, I would be afraid to leave my home and if I did, I would always be looking over my shoulder. I am sure some of those he has abused hate him so much, that they want to kill him. If they don't have God in their lives, they just might. If not they, themselves, then maybe their loved ones. If someone had abused my son, especially a pastor or teacher, I would have felt like killing them. And I know without God, I would I would have carried it out.
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The more victims from DL that come forward, the better chance that Tommy will go to jail and stay there. Or at least he will make a plea deal and still go to jail. No one wants this to go to trial. No one wants the victims to have to go thru the trial.So a plea deal is the best way to go.
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I am with you Mrst.........I am sure there are a few copy cats about. Especially, with the anger and raw emotionsl expressed here. I am aware of three(3) of victims that post(or posted) here, no telling what is going on in the tortured minds of those yet to heard from.
Three? I must have missed something. Who was the third?
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In the victim's minds it will be about whether they feel enough was done to bring closure and whether justice was done. If not it is possible that a known or heretofore unknown victim may be like the man who went to the retirement home and beat the priest. Money had been awarded in that case I believe but he did not feel that enough had been done. Specifically what the victims and the judge may be looking for is true remorse by the perp and admission that his actions were wrong.
No need to poke the bear. The bear just doesn't seem to be getting it.
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This particular bear has a very tough skin and very blind eyes
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Ooops! Sorry meant two. Was distracted with work while typing. LOL!! Sorry folks! My bad!
Three? I must have missed something. Who was the third?
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I am with you Mrst.........I am sure there are a few copy cats about. Especially, with the anger and raw emotionsl expressed here. I am aware of three(3) of victims that post(or posted) here, no telling what is going on in the tortured minds of those yet to heard from.
Three? I must have missed something. Who was the third?
Ooops! Sorry meant two. Was distracted with work while typing. LOL!! Sorry folks! My bad!
Speaking of three victims (not related to princessdi's post above), I just read the following posted by Pickle at http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13795&view=findpost&p=199683 (http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13795&view=findpost&p=199683):
"... I just heard that the number of underage victims from Virginia has gone from 1 to 3, and I've finally gotten a name of one of those and have some correspondence from him. ..."
Pickle, I have only read about two underage victims in VA at this site and the newspaper articles. Is there another underage victim that has not come forward to the police? Is what you heard back in June 2007 true? Thanks for any information.
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Pickle, I have only read about two underage victims in VA at this site and the newspaper articles. Is there another underage victim that has not come forward to the police? Is what you heard back in June 2007 true? Thanks for any information.
A June 2007 new one was Alex. I don't off the top of my head remember details about a third, but I recall being told something at some point about another one.
Sorry I'm not more help.
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Pickle, I have only read about two underage victims in VA at this site and the newspaper articles. Is there another underage victim that has not come forward to the police? Is what you heard back in June 2007 true? Thanks for any information.
A June 2007 new one was Alex. I don't off the top of my head remember details about a third, but I recall being told something at some point about another one.
Sorry I'm not more help.
Do you remember who told you that the number of underage victims from Virginia increased from 1 to 3? If so, will you please follow up with them to find out if there really are three VA victims?
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Pickle, I have only read about two underage victims in VA at this site and the newspaper articles. Is there another underage victim that has not come forward to the police? Is what you heard back in June 2007 true? Thanks for any information.
A June 2007 new one was Alex. I don't off the top of my head remember details about a third, but I recall being told something at some point about another one.
Sorry I'm not more help.
Do you remember who told you that the number of underage victims from Virginia increased from 1 to 3? If so, will you please follow up with them to find out if there really are three VA victims?
I can verify that there are three.
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Alex, will the 3rd victim ever consider, coming forward, if it would help convict Tommy? I understand if he/she won't.
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Pickle, I have only read about two underage victims in VA at this site and the newspaper articles. Is there another underage victim that has not come forward to the police? Is what you heard back in June 2007 true? Thanks for any information.
A June 2007 new one was Alex. I don't off the top of my head remember details about a third, but I recall being told something at some point about another one.
Sorry I'm not more help.
Do you remember who told you that the number of underage victims from Virginia increased from 1 to 3? If so, will you please follow up with them to find out if there really are three VA victims?
I can verify that there are three.
Thanks Alex. I am sorry to hear this. I was hoping to find out that what Pickle heard in 2007 was not true.
Pickle, are you able to find out if the third person you heard about in 2007 is the same as the third that Alex is confirming. Could there be a fourth VA underage victim?
VestedInterest, before now, were you and others at the Dunn Loring church aware of this?
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....ok, so I did make a mistake, but I wsn't wrong........there are three? How sad! I just keep thinking of those Oprah episodes with all those men, all of those damaged lives............and there are so many more. I pray for these men, even though I don't know any of them.
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Just wondering -
I can only speak for myself - I did not know of a 3rd underage victim, but thought there was a report of an "adult" who wished to remain anonymous.
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I am going to respond to truths snide remark about me published over at the site of sinful destruction.
First "Truth" I don't care what you think, ok? So get over yourself.
Second, don't take my word for it...call the Fairfax county Police Department and ask for the Detective who was over the case. She will inform you that another one besides us two did contact her.
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Alex, will the 3rd victim ever consider, coming forward, if it would help convict Tommy? I understand if he/she won't.
My understanding is that the victim has talked to authorities.
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Just wondering -
I can only speak for myself - I did not know of a 3rd underage victim, but thought there was a report of an "adult" who wished to remain anonymous.
Vested Interest,
In reading at blacksda, at the start of the VA allegations there were three people; one minor and two adults.
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11633&st=45 (http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11633&st=45)
12/3/2006
Three instances of misconduct on the part of Tommy Shelton while he served as pastor at the Community Church of God, Dunn Loring, Virginia, have been reported to me in the brief time I have served as pastor of this congregation.
The most egregious of these instances involved a male who was a minor at the time.
Further down the page at the link above, the following is stated:
12/3/2006
It was not until after Tommy Shelton left the pastorate here at the Community Church of God, Dunn Loring, Virginia, in 2000, that while vacationing my wife and I were spending some time with a former "confidant" of Tommy's in the congregation in Virginia and this individual informed us of misconduct on Tommy's part while serving at the Community Church of God. This alleged misconduct was believable but unsubstantiated and is unrelated to the three instances which have been brought to my attention in the past year.
So, as of December 2006 there were a total of four allegations of misconduct, including one by a minor. Then adding in the two additional allegations by minors that Pickle heard about in June 2007, there have been allegations by six people of misconduct. Of course this is in addition to all of the allegations in IL. The more that I read, the worse it gets. Much prayer is needed.
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I'm sorry, JustWondering, that I don't remember the details from back then. I think Dryden told me at some point that there was another possible victim over there, but it's been too long since I was told by whomever, and I don't recall ever having an actual name.
However, Dryden and I did talk about the time that Alex came forward, so he very well could be who told me. But whoever told me did not give me any names.
By the way, in looking over my notes, I did run across a name of a boy I was told that Tommy allegedly made an advance toward maybe 10 years before Brad Dunning. If that actually occurred, it might explain why Danny told Walt in 2003, according to Walt, that the allegations were 27 or 30 years old.
Who knows how many there are.
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So, as of December 2006 there were a total of four allegations of misconduct, including one by a minor. Then adding in the two additional allegations by minors that Pickle heard about in June 2007, there have been allegations by six people of misconduct. Of course this is in addition to all of the allegations in IL. The more that I read, the worse it gets. Much prayer is needed.
As of December 2006, Dryden's 2003 letter referenced 6 boys, and the new victims in VA made the total 7 minors and 2 adults. We also had allegations involving Tommy's adopted son being victimized, and an advance toward an adult Shelton family member around 1991. That would then make 8 minors and 4 adults.
Then around Jan. 1, 2007, Duane Clem came forward. Then Mom in Pain #1's son. That's 9 minors and 4 adults. Then Alex around June 2007, making 10 minors and 4 adults.
And of course someone else's list may be longer or shorter, and my list may become longer if I remember more names.
Oh, the one I mentioned before Brad Dunning. That would then make it 11 minors and 4 adults, assuming the boy was a minor at the time.
One name I was told about as a possibility, I gave the guy a call and he freaked out. I doubt he would have done that if nothing had happened.
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I must take a moment and respond to "Nikolas" who made a direct attack at the other site.
First: Nikolas I am confident that I will win at trial as is the other victim.
Second: you mention a possible law suit against me if there isn't a "guilty" verdict. All I have to say is your threat and "Court Information" as you like to call it does not scare me. If I and/or the other victim does not get a guilty verdict we will be ready to fight with all our available means at any attempts to collect court cost.
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I must take a moment and respond to "Nikolas" who made a direct attack at the other site.
First: Nikolas I am confident that I will win at trial as is the other victim.
Second: you mention a possible law suit against me if there isn't a "guilty" verdict. All I have to say is your threat and "Court Information" as you like to call it does not scare me. If I and/or the other victim does not get a guilty verdict we will be ready to fight with all our available means at any attempts to collect court cost.
If anyone was wondering what post I was referring too it's this one:
Court Information
by Nikolas » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:57 pm UTC
1. Fact: Tommy Shelton rejected another plea deal from his attorney.
2. Fact: Tommy Shelton has chosen to go to Court.
3. Fact: When what Alex has told in Court is proven to be lies, Tommy will have no choice but to sue for his court expenses.
4. Fact: There has been some talk that Tommy Shelton's attorney advised him to sue.
This came from friends.
I am not at all worried to have to testify at the trial. I look forward to it! As I told one certain news reporter when he asked me about the judge accepting the deal. I said I was "fine" with it. That still remains my feelings today.
As I stated I am not at all intimidated by this it is a tactic to intimidate the victims to back down. Like a friend of mine use to say... If you feel froggy jump. If Tommy's attorney's have advised him to sue either myself or the other victim if tommy get's a "not guilty" good for them. As I further stated we will meet that challenge when or IF it comes.
I will end with this quote:
"Wars are not won by evacuations."
~ Winston Churchill
Edited to Add more Thought.
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I can not help myself, I just have to reply to that post:
Yes, I have stated that if TS goes to trial, it will not be a slam-dunk. TS might be found guilty and he might be found not guilty.
So, if he is found not guilty, can he sue those who have accused him? Yes, one can file a suit for just about any reason at all. However, the mere filing of a lawsuit does not mean that it will ever go to trial and to judgement. [NOTE: One of the first motions in a trial is often to dismiss the lawsuit. Sometimes the litigation is dismissed without going to trail.] If it goes to trial, it does not mean that a favorable verdict will be obtained.
In my opinion: If TS is found Not Guilty, he will have almost zero chance of collecting anything from those who have accused him on the basis of anything which involves that trial--the charges and/or sworn testimony are included in my statement. 1) The thought that a jury would award TS damages against the plaintifs reveals, in my mind a fundamental misunderstanding of what juries are likely to do in such cases. 2) The plaintifs are represented by competent council. Those attornies would not allow anything to happen. connected to the trail, that would make their clients subject to such damages.
Is there any way that TS might collect damages from someone? Yes, I think that there is a way. Perhaps TS could collect from someone on the basis of posts made in this forum!
However, there are two issues associated with that: 1) As I read TS, I do not beleive that he would want to be involved in such litigation. 2) TS could only collect if the person had the means to pay the judgement.
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I can not help myself, I just have to reply to that post:
Yes, I have stated that if TS goes to trial, it will not be a slam-dunk. TS might be found guilty and he might be found not guilty.
So, if he is found not guilty, can he sue those who have accused him? Yes, one can file a suit for just about any reason at all. However, the mere filing of a lawsuit does not mean that it will ever go to trial and to judgement. [NOTE: One of the first motions in a trial is often to dismiss the lawsuit. Sometimes the litigation is dismissed without going to trail.] If it goes to trial, it does not mean that a favorable verdict will be obtained.
In my opinion: If TS is found Not Guilty, he will have almost zero chance of collecting anything from those who have accused him on the basis of anything which involves that trial--the charges and/or sworn testimony are included in my statement. 1) The thought that a jury would award TS damages against the plaintifs reveals, in my mind a fundamental misunderstanding of what juries are likely to do in such cases. 2) The plaintifs are represented by competent council. Those attornies would not allow anything to happen. connected to the trail, that would make their clients subject to such damages.
Is there any way that TS might collect damages from someone? Yes, I think that there is a way. Perhaps TS could collect from someone on the basis of posts made in this forum!
However, there are two issues associated with that: 1) As I read TS, I do not beleive that he would want to be involved in such litigation. 2) TS could only collect if the person had the means to pay the judgement.
Thank you Gregory. I have sent that post to my attorney's and I can say this without breaking attorney/client privilege. We are not worried!
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Alex:
You should not be worried about any litigation against you, as I understand the way the courts work in the U.S.
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I must take a moment and respond to "Nikolas" who made a direct attack at the other site.
First: Nikolas I am confident that I will win at trial as is the other victim.
Second: you mention a possible law suit against me if there isn't a "guilty" verdict. All I have to say is your threat and "Court Information" as you like to call it does not scare me. If I and/or the other victim does not get a guilty verdict we will be ready to fight with all our available means at any attempts to collect court cost.
If anyone was wondering what post I was referring too it's this one:
Court Information
by Nikolas » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:57 pm UTC
1. Fact: Tommy Shelton rejected another plea deal from his attorney.
2. Fact: Tommy Shelton has chosen to go to Court.
3. Fact: When what Alex has told in Court is proven to be lies, Tommy will have no choice but to sue for his court expenses.
4. Fact: There has been some talk that Tommy Shelton's attorney advised him to sue.
This came from friends.
I am not at all worried to have to testify at the trial. I look forward to it! As I told one certain news reporter when he asked me about the judge accepting the deal. I said I was "fine" with it. That still remains my feelings today.
As I stated I am not at all intimidated by this it is a tactic to intimidate the victims to back down. Like a friend of mine use to say... If you feel froggy jump. If Tommy's attorney's have advised him to sue either myself or the other victim if tommy get's a "not guilty" good for them. As I further stated we will meet that challenge when or IF it comes.
I will end with this quote: "Wars are not won by evacuations." ~ Winston Churchill
Edited to Add more Thought.
Alex, Hang in there! Their only defense is to try to intimidate the victims. That is all they have to work with. They will do whatever they can do in an attempt to keep TS from going to prison. If TS had been remorseful the judge may have accepted the plea deal and he would have avoided prison. The more they fight the worse it may end up being for TS and he may end up with a longer prison sentence. The more they fight, the more God will bring into the light.
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I am not at all worried to have to testify at the trial. I look forward to it! As I told one certain news reporter when he asked me about the judge accepting the deal. I said I was "fine" with it. That still remains my feelings today.
As I stated I am not at all intimidated by this it is a tactic to intimidate the victims to back down. Like a friend of mine use to say... If you feel froggy jump. If Tommy's attorney's have advised him to sue either myself or the other victim if tommy get's a "not guilty" good for them. As I further stated we will meet that challenge when or IF it comes.
I will end with this quote:
"Wars are not won by evacuations."
~ Winston Churchill
:TY: :dogwag:
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Again: I'm posting to respond to someones obvious misinformation; Pat Williams.
First Pat states this:
"Alex maintains it doesn't bother him that he has to go to court now, but I tend to disbelieve him."
---Pat, I don't care what you believe or don't believe. I mean what I said. It does not at all bother me to go to court. I'm glad you people think so, but you're in for a suprise!
Second it states this: -note I say "it" because they talk trash, but don't identify themselves.
---He makes references to the evidence that the prosecutor may or may not have. The prosecutor along with my attorney's believe there is enough evidence in both trials to get a conviction. You further talk about the prosecution having no witnesses...are you sure about that? :)
Third it talks about inconsistent statements made by both victims:
---I will not respond to that, but am not worried that they will have an effect.
Fourth it states this:
"Tommy, may I remind all, has lost his home, his retirement and much more in all of this."
---In this he is talking about a possible law suit against Tommy's accusers. Let me remind you all he's fabricating the truth. Especially on the home being sold. My sources tell me that Tommy was planning on selling his home far before his arrest. So to say that any victim is the cause of this is a complete lie. Also, I have been told by my people that Tommy had enough money to buy a home in Mississippi. I can assure you he has not lost that home. I also get sick of seeing that he has lost all of his money. That is not an excuse. Tommy could have asked to have been represented by a Public defender free of charge. This is another attempt at sympathy.
Fifth it talks about perjury; another scare tactic that they are now tossing out. They noticed that being threatened with a possible law suit didn't bother me so they are going to use this. Let me assure them: I’M NOT WORRIED!!!!
Lastly, it states this:
"I'm sure some will freak out, like Alex already did, saying I am trying to intimidate him. That's OK, I'm not. I am just saying one should consider all. The courts will decide fairly, God willing.”
--- LOL! I did not freak out. Yes I'm going to say you're trying to intimidate me because that is exactly what it is. You are correct the courts will decide not you Pat Williams.
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I wasn't going to respond again to Pat Williams, but I must.
First Pat says this:
"Alex has just replied to my last post above over on Pickle's forum. Most of it imo is not worth replying to or repeating here. I would like to respond to two things however as I don't want to give the impression I have some inside scoop, or inside source feeding me information as the yokels over there are fond of claiming. I was merely commenting based on the information which has been made publicly available."
---Pat the reason you say "most of it is not worth repeating here" is because you know it's truth. Just as I pointed out the lies addressed by you to the fact that Tommy has lost everything because of his accusers. You know it's truth and you didn't deny it in your second smut post.
Second:
"It really makes no difference to me, but for what it's worth, my opinion is based on your own previous decision to accept the plea bargain with significantly reduced charges with only probation and no prison or jail time, after being told the risks of going to trial. It was also based on your own words about never pressing charges, and the testimony of your own family:"
CanI say liar..liar? Obviously it makes alot of difference to you or you would shut up. I don't care, Pat. These things do not bother me and I am not afraid to testify! Leave it alone. You can post whatever your smut heart desires but it don't bother me! End of story.
Third:
"I believe that it was also posted that a family member of yours said that you told them after Tommy's arrest that you were going to try and get out of the case as you didn't want to be involved... "
Again I say liar, liar. I am so sick of this lie I could puke. Let me clear this up:
I NEVER said I was hiring attorney's to not be involved. I do recall having a conversation about wanting them because at that time I was getting hounded by the media. I also wanted to make sure my name was not being released. That is what I said.
Lastly:
"I feel no need to argue with you about it. I merely posted my own opinion based on the prosecutor's own words on two different occasions in court to the Judge. Witnesses for you were never mentioned. She said, and I quote: "There were no corroborating witnesses." and "she said she did not want to submit her two victims, each almost 30 years old, to potentially grueling trials with the possibility of acquittals."
I refuse to argue as well....I can just say you're in for a suprise. I do know that there is a key witness. A person that one of the Shelton's confided in.
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Again: I'm posting to respond to someones obvious misinformation; Pat Williams....
As Alex said before:
"If anyone was wondering what post I was referring too it's this one:
Re: Court Information Post by Pat Williams » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:18 am UTC
1. Fact: Tommy Shelton rejected another plea deal from his attorney.
2. Fact: Tommy Shelton has chosen to go to Court.
3. Fact: When what Alex has told in Court is proven to be lies, Tommy will have no choice but to sue for his court expenses.
4. Fact: There has been some talk that Tommy Shelton's attorney advised him to sue.
This came from friends.
Well, we already knew Tommy has always maintained that these two were lying and he was innocent, despite him accepting that plea bargain. So I am very pleased to read Tommy's going to fight them in court now. We certainly have had enough praying for God to bring His will about and that truth and justice will prevail. I will continue to pray that His will be done, and that He preserve Tommy's health and speak to the hearts of all involved. God knows all, and what's best and will answer accordingly.
I read this. Then I read some of the reaction on Pickle's forum. It seems to me some they are so busy reacting they haven't stopped to think. Alex maintains it doesn't bother him that he has to go to court now, but I tend to disbelieve him. The case is weak. For one he has a family according to the court document who it seems will testify that there was no opportunity, and that he lies. Second, he has no witnesses while Tommy does. Third, his testimony keeps changing so it isn't credible , and that's all the evidence there is according to the prosecutor.
Another of the things which has changed about his testimony which I noticed, but which wasn't brought up in the court document was the difference in age from his initial police report. News Release: 08/080/2600/BW/(3) from the Fairfax County Police Department (http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/news-releases/2010/031810sexasltvic.htm):
"In November of 2008, a 22-year-old man contacted police to report that he had been molested by Shelton when he was 8 to 9 years old."
Of course Pickle got a statement from him way before this and always maintained he was 8 years old also, so I don't know how that could be a mistake. But strangely when Alex testified in court the story is he was 11 years old. That appears to be a big difference to me, and I have seen no explanation for it.
Of course Pickle had a statement from Dennis Turley also which was also different then his police statements, and court reports of oral sex. In Dennis' first statement which was either taken by Pickle, or given to Pickle by Glenn Dryden, Dennis says that Tommy only "tempted[sic] to kiss him and preform oral sex on him" etc.. Yet his later statement says it was more than attempts it actually occurred several times. I do remember though that at the first hearing before the grand Jury the Prosecutor had to reduce the charges as Dennis' subsequent testimony didn't support them.
So the original 5 counts are back against Tommy and it appears she will have to reduce them again....
This should be interesting as it progresses.
Another thing I want to comment about here are Gregory Matthew's posts on adventtalk. He posted:
"Alex: You should not be worried about any litigation against you, as I understand the way the courts work in the U.S."
This after he gave an explanation in an earlier post in reply to Alex's, claiming:
I can not help myself, I just have to reply to that post:
Yes, I have stated that if TS goes to trial, it will not be a slam-dunk. TS might be found guilty and he might be found not guilty.
So, if he is found not guilty, can he sue those who have accused him? Yes, one can file a suit for just about any reason at all. However, the mere filing of a lawsuit does not mean that it will ever go to trial and to judgement. [NOTE: One of the first motions in a trial is often to dismiss the lawsuit. Sometimes the litigation is dismissed without going to trail.] If it goes to trial, it does not mean that a favorable verdict will be obtained.
In my opinion: If TS is found Not Guilty, he will have almost zero chance of collecting anything from those who have accused him on the basis of anything which involves that trial--the charges and/or sworn testimony are included in my statement. 1) The thought that a jury would award TS damages against the plaintifs reveals, in my mind a fundamental misunderstanding of what juries are likely to do in such cases. 2) The plaintifs are represented by competent council. Those attornies would not allow anything to happen. connected to the trail, that would make their clients subject to such damages.
Is there any way that TS might collect damages from someone? Yes, I think that there is a way. Perhaps TS could collect from someone on the basis of posts made in this forum!
However, there are two issues associated with that: 1) As I read TS, I do not beleive that he would want to be involved in such litigation. 2) TS could only collect if the person had the means to pay the judgement.
I do not believe Gregory Matthews knows Tommy Shelton, although I may be mistaken, but the point here is that Gregory Matthews appears to be speaking from a bias, and according to his view that Alex and Dennis are telling the truth and that Tommy is guilty. Although he claims he may or he may not be found guilty , and he may, or he may not be found innocent by a court of law........... Thus GM's opinion and reassuring to Alex is one sided. He fails to take into account what Alex was replying to which was Nikolas' post above:
" When what Alex has told in Court is proven to be lies, Tommy will have no choice but to sue for his court expenses." "...Tommy Shelton's attorney advised him to sue"
Tommy, may I remind all, has lost his home, his retirement and much more in all of this.
Courts and Juries do not look kindly on perjury, nor does the police. If Alex (or Dennis) is indeed proven to be lying in court, he is gonna be in big trouble, and if GM was really trying to impartially comment, and explain things, he should have at least pointed that out to him imo.
This is also from the Fairfax County Police Department In Virginia:
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police...
Be advised that it is a crime to make a false police report. Anyone found to have submitted a false police report will be prosecuted under the authority of Virginia State Code, Section 18.2-461, which shall be punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor. Maximum possible penalty is one year in jail and/or $2,500 fine.
I'm sure some will freak out, like Alex already did, saying I am trying to intimidate him. That's ok, I'm not. I am just saying one should consider all. The courts will decide fairly, God willing.
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I wasn't going to respond again to Pat Williams, but I must.
and as Alex said before:If anyone was wondering what post I was referring too it's this one:
Re: Alex Walker... Post by Pat Williams » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:1
Alex has just replied to my last post above over on Pickle's forum. Most of it imo is not worth replying to or repeating here. I would like to respond to two things however as I don't want to give the impression I have some inside scoop, or inside source feeding me information as the yokels over there are fond of claiming. I was merely commenting based on the information which has been made publicly available.
1.
First Pat states this:
"Alex maintains it doesn't bother him that he has to go to court now, but I tend to disbelieve him."
---Pat, I don't care what you believe or don't believe. I mean what I said. It does not at all bother me to go to court. I'm glad you people think so, but you're in for a suprise!
It really makes no difference to me, but for what it's worth, my opinion is based on your own previous decision to accept the plea bargain with significantly reduced charges with only probation and no prison or jail time, after being told the risks of going to trial. It was also based on your own words about never pressing charges, and the testimony of your own family:
From the facebook conversation posted on Pickle's forum:
Alex Larry Walker April 9 at 11:31pm wrote :
As far as me talking to Bob Pickle, yes, I have talked to Bob. However, not
to the extent that people think I have.
As far as the trial, I do not know much. I have not been communicated
with since the arrest. Let me say this, and it is nothing different then what
I told Brad, so I think I can say it.
I did call the detective from fair fax county two years ago. I never pressed
formal charges; actually I never pressed them at all. I had no idea that
Tommy was going to be arrested until after it happened.
I want to make that point crystal clear. That I did communicate with the
police detective, but never met her, nor did I write or file any charges or
statements to her, but the phone conversations.
I have hired attorneys, who are looking into the case, but this has been
since the charges were brought. Honestly, I was advised that it was in my
best interest to get legal counsel so that is what I did. To be honest with
you, how I learned of Tommy’s arrest was a news reporter who called me.
Like I said, I never pressed formal charges.
Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said she had discussed the proposal with the two victims, and the risks of going to trial, and they had accepted it. She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about events up to 15 years ago...
Source: Washington Post By Tom Jackman | July 19, 2010; 12:13 PM ET
From the court document posted in this thread:
Mr. Walker’s own family does not find his story credible. For example, Bradley and Valerie Walker, Mr. Walker’s brother and sister-in-law, both attest that Mr. Walker was never left in the care of Mr. Shelton, and hence would never have had occasion to be alone with him on a bike path. (Bradley and Valerie Walker e-mail dated October 19, 2010.)
Deon and Geneva Walker, Mr. Walker’s parents, also state that Mr. Shelton never cared for Mr. Walker during his childhood. (Deon and Geneva Walker e-mail dated October 18, 2010). Mr. Walker’s parents also point out that while he asks this Court to impose a “heavy” sentence in his Victim Impact Statement, the truth of the matter is that Mr. Walker hopes this Court will “accept the plea bargain and no harm would come to Tommy.” (Id.) His mother explains these inconsistencies by Mr. Walker’s propensity to “hurt others to gain from their misfortune.” (Id.)
I believe that it was also posted that a family member of yours said that you told them after Tommy's arrest that you were going to try and get out of the case as you didn't want to be involved...
2.
Second it states this: -note I say "it" because they talk trash, but don't identify themselves. ---He makes references to the evidence that the prosecutor may or may not have. The prosecutor along with my attorney's believe there is enough evidence in both trials to get a conviction. You further talk about the prosecution having no witnesses...are you sure about that? :)
I feel no need to argue with you about it. I merely posted my own opinion based on the prosecutor's own words on two different occasions in court to the Judge. Witnesses for you were never mentioned. She said, and I quote: "There were no corroborating witnesses." and "she said she did not want to submit her two victims, each almost 30 years old, to potentially grueling trials with the possibility of acquittals."
Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said she had discussed the proposal with the two victims, and the risks of going to trial, and they had accepted it. She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about events up to 15 years ago, that Shelton had not spoken to police and had no prior criminal record.
Source: Washington Post By Tom Jackman | July 19, 2010; 12:13 PM ET
Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Katherine E. Stott said she did not want to submit her two victims, each almost 30 years old, to potentially grueling trials with the possibility of acquittals.
Listing the factors that led her to agree to the deal, Stott said: The events occurred separately, so the cases would be tried separately. There were no corroborating witnesses or forensic evidence. There was no confession; Shelton's plea could not be used against him. The victims made inconsistent statements. Shelton would have witnesses testify positively about him. The events happened about 15 years ago. Juries want forensic evidence, and they don't want any doubt before convicting a pastor of a sex offense.
source: By Tom Jackman ,Washington Post Staff Writer, Tuesday, November 16, 2010
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Cindy wrote this over at her site:
"But, I think, if I remember correctly, the problem with Alex and Pickle claiming he was 8 yrs old, and was molested 15 yrs ago, is that he wasn't a foster kid of the Walkers yet, or adopted, so there was no way he could ever even have been in Virginia, or been anywhere around Tommy in Virginia. He couldn't even have been with his adopted brother and sister-in-law there as he hadn't even met them yet... Can any one confirm or deny this?"
WOW CINDY!!! Where are you getting your information!!!!! All I can say is WOW! Yes you are wrong! I was taken in when I was 8 months old. That is alot longer than 15 years ago.
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I spoke to the prosecutor Kathy Stott yesterday about this perjury claim that the other side is now throwing out. Her responce: She laughed. She said that there is no way that the other victim or I would be charged with perjury if Tommy is found innocent.
She stated: "One judge already found probable cause to move forward and another judge rejected the plea deal because he believed the victims. She said that there is zero chance of a perjury charge of either victim if Tommy is found innocent. They are in dream land."
She also said that this is a clear tactic of intimidation and even possibly witness intimidation. Now that I'm sure she would be more than happy to charge someone with.
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Alex, I would advise against allowing them to bait you into discussion of matters related to any case currently active or pending in the legal system.
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Re: Tommy... Postby Pat Williams » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:38 pm UTC
It appears my earlier post were copied over onto Pickle's forum and Alex posted the following there:
Alex L. Walker
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Posts: 125
Re: SNAP to appear at the Community Church of God in Dunnloring, Va. tomorrow.
« Reply #138 on: Today at 07:31:08 AM »
I spoke to the prosecutor Kathy Stott yesterday about this perjury claim that the other side is now throwing out. Her responce: She laughed. She said that there is no way that the other victim or I would be charged with perjury if Tommy is found innocent.
She stated: "One judge already found probable cause to move forward and another judge rejected the plea deal because he believed the victims. She said that there is zero chance of a perjury charge of either victim if Tommy is found innocent. They are in dream land."
She also said that this is a clear tactic of intimidation and even possibly witness intimidation. Now that I'm sure she would be more than happy to charge someone with.
Two more things.
1.
I am quite sure that a "not guilty" or "innocent" judgment for Tommy by itself would not result in a perjury charge for either Alex,or Dennis, so of course I would never say something so silly.
What I said, in reply to another member here [not Alex] who posted the following:
" When what Alex has told in Court is proven to be lies, Tommy will have no choice but to sue for his court expenses." "...Tommy Shelton's attorney advised him to sue"
Was this:
"Courts and Juries do not look kindly on perjury, nor does the police. If Alex (or Dennis) is indeed proven to be lying in court, he is gonna be in big trouble"
Notice the "if" which I bold texted in my earlier post and the "proven to be lying" part?
Perjury involves lying.
If Alex is not lying, and it cannot be proven he lied, either to the police or in court, then he has nothing to worry about.
If, on the otherhand, it can be proven, then he may have multiple counts to face. IF...
I am sure that many remember the high profile sexual assault case in 1997 when just days before the Dallas Cowboys were set to play the Carolina Panthers in a playoff game, this Dallas women falsely accused Michael Irvin and Erik Williams of raping her in William's home. It turned out, no assault had occured and that there was no opportunity as the woman was never even at his home on the date in question. She ended up recanting her story, was charged, and took a plea bargain for perjury requiring 90 days in jail and a fine.
2.
I already posted that "I'm sure some will freak out, like Alex already did, saying I am trying to intimidate him. That's ok, I'm not. I am just saying one should consider all. The courts will decide fairly, God willing."
and of course Alex did claim that: "Yes I'm going to say you're trying to intimidate me because that is exactly what it is."
And as I said, that's ok, I'm not, but he can say whatever he thinks, even if wrong.
BUT NOW HE TOOK IT ONE STEP FURTHER AND POSTED:
"She [the Prosecutor/Commonwealth Atty K. Stott] also said that this ["Courts and Juries do not look kindly on perjury, nor does the police. If Alex (or Dennis) is indeed proven to be lying in court, he is gonna be in big trouble"] is a clear tactic of intimidation and even possibly witness intimidation. Now that I'm sure she would be more than happy to charge someone with."
Alex may be ignorant of the law, but I am quite sure she is not, nor am I. He's lying, and that should be readily apparent to anyone looking up the legal definitions.
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Pat apparently has some server issue preventing posting here, and Cindy is banned permanently, so:
Re: Tommy...
Postby Cynthia » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:14 pm UTC
Well Alex claims he became a member of the Walkers household at 8 mos old, so if that is true, and I don't know for sure whether it is or not, I was mistaken.
I would still like to hear an explanation of the 3 year time difference, but so far he's ignoring that question, and neither he or Pickle have offered any explanation of why they both claimed before 2008, that he was molested 15 years ago at age 8, and now the claim is he was molested at age 11, in 1998. It looks like we will have to wait for further court testimony and hearings for an answer.
~ Cindy
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Response to Nosir Myzing:
1) Bias: Yes, I probably do have a bias which foir me is a tendency to believe those who claim sexual misconduct on the part of another. By the way, psychological studies give credence to my bias. IOW they show that such accusations are not typically falsle.
2) As to most of my other comments, they stem not from bias but from a perception of the statute and the way that the courts and legal system in the U.S. works and that perception is based more upon knowledge and experience rather than bias. Certainly I could be wrong in my perceptions. I sometims am wrong.
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Again Alex. Its probably not a good idea to let Nosir Myzing, Pat, Cindy or anyone else bait you into any further discussion of ongoing and pending legal matters.
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Again Alex. Its probably not a good idea to let Nosir Myzing, Pat, Cindy or anyone else bait you into any further discussion of ongoing and pending legal matters.
You are correct. It is pointless trying to explain anything to *********.
Edited to remove inappropriate content.
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The primary reason any of them would have for communicating with you is to bait you into making statements that they will twist into attempts to hurt you. You need to assume that they are here specifically to hurt you, and that any communication they have with you has only one purpose behind it, and that is to destroy you.
Again Alex. Its probably not a good idea to let Nosir Myzing, Pat, Cindy or anyone else bait you into any further discussion of ongoing and pending legal matters.
You are correct. It is pointless trying to explain anything to *********.
Edited to remove inappropriate content from quoted post.
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The primary reason any of them would have for communicating with you is to bait you into making statements that they will twist into attempts to hurt you. You need to assume that they are here specifically to hurt you, and that any communication they have with you has only one purpose behind it, and that is to destroy you.
Again Alex. Its probably not a good idea to let Nosir Myzing, Pat, Cindy or anyone else bait you into any further discussion of ongoing and pending legal matters.
:goodpost:
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A common strategy of abusers: Deny the abuse, then Attack the victim for attempting to make them accountable for their offense, thereby Reversing Victim and Offender.
Nosir Myzing - Clever screen name. If things in Virginia go to trial you'll most likely need a new one -- sufficient evidence will be presented by the prosecution team.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad delivered a nationally televised address railing against Israel and the West.
Speaking before a crowd of supporters at Tehran University, he questioned whether the Holocaust was a "real event" and called it a pretext for the creation of Israel. He said the Jewish state was founded on "a lie and a mythical claim."
Ahmadinejad called the Holocaust a "big deception" and claimed Israel uses it to sway international support. Outside the university, while the speech blared on loudspeakers, opposition protesters shouted "liar, liar!"
Nosir Myzing, if you listen carefully you can hear, "liar, liar!" And you know and I know you're that your tactics on this site are to intimidate.
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:goodpost:
Welcome, DARVO! Excellent post. Clever user name.
http://dynamic.uoregon.edu/~jjf/defineDARVO.html (http://dynamic.uoregon.edu/~jjf/defineDARVO.html)
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A common strategy of abusers: Deny the abuse, then Attack the victim for attempting to make them accountable for their offense, thereby Reversing Victim and Offender.
Nosir Myzing - Clever screen name. If things in Virginia go to trial you'll most likely need a new one -- sufficient evidence will be presented by the prosecution team.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad delivered a nationally televised address railing against Israel and the West.
Speaking before a crowd of supporters at Tehran University, he questioned whether the Holocaust was a "real event" and called it a pretext for the creation of Israel. He said the Jewish state was founded on "a lie and a mythical claim."
Ahmadinejad called the Holocaust a "big deception" and claimed Israel uses it to sway international support. Outside the university, while the speech blared on loudspeakers, opposition protesters shouted "liar, liar!"
Nosir Myzing, if you listen carefully you can hear, "liar, liar!" And you know and I know you're that your tactics on this site are to intimidate.
:TY: :TY: Someone with some common sense! Excellent post!
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I am doing this against my best judgment and the judgment of other’s but just a few things need to be cleared up on this.
Nikolas- who IMO, should be sued posted the following:
October 19, 2010
Honorable Judge **********,
We are Bradley and Valerie Walker, the brother and sister-in-law of Alex Larry Walker.
We would like to inform you of the false accusations that Alex has made toward Tommy Shelton.
Alex stated, “Pastor Shelton ingrained himself into my family and my personal life for years.”
Tommy has never been apart of the Walker family, as far as spending time with my parents or my younger siblings as Alex is suggesting. I, (Bradley) married into the Shelton family, and I have spent a lot of time with Tommy and his family through the years. Tommy has never been a part of Alex’s personal life at any time.
Alex also stated, “(Tommy) assisted my teenage employment at Three Angels Broadcasting Network where the abuse continued.”
Tommy did not have anything to do with Alex’s employment at Three Angels Broadcasting Network, Tommy was not working in the production department at this time. I am the one that requested for Alex to work with me in the music video department for Linda Shelton, Linda approved him to work on her crew but Alex was to remain with me due to the fact that he was a teenager working part time. I will testify to the fact that Alex was never alone and he was in my care at all times while working at Three Angels.
Alex stated, “When my brother and sister-in-law entrusted me to his care while they were attending meetings to adopt a child of their own, the defendant would pretend to take me for a bicycle ride in the woods near the church where he would force me off the trail and molest me.”
I, (Valerie Walker) will testify to the fact that I have never asked my dad (Tommy) to take care of Alex nor have I ever left Alex alone with my dad. When Alex came to Virginia to stay with us for several weeks, I would ask my mom if she would watch Alex from time to time, never my dad.
I, (Bradley Walker) will also testify to the fact that I have never asked Tommy to take care of Alex nor have I ever left Alex alone with Tommy at anytime.
Alex stated, “When I contacted the Fairfax county police and reported what had occurred to me, I had not yet been able to talk of this with anyone.”
In my one conversation I, (Bradley) had with Alex, he told me that he did not contact the Fairfax county police it was done without his permission and he was going to sue the detective that contacted him, because he did not want to be involved. I, (Valerie) can testify that I heard this conversation also.
My, (Bradley) family is very large and we all are use to hearing the biggest and inflated stories that originated from Alex, anything from baseball size brain tumors (He had last year) to saying our father died because he (Alex) didn’t want to loose his job. Alex has always embellished the truth or lied to get any attention he can.
Our hope is that you will consider the fact that Alex has gained the attention he desires and we trust that you will be just in your consideration.
Thank you,
Bradley & Valerie Walker
I am going to point out some mistakes in this letter even if it is in fact my brother or sister in law who wrote it.
First:
“Tommy did not have anything to do with Alex’s employment at Three Angels Broadcasting Network, Tommy was not working in the production department at this time. I am the one that requested for Alex to work with me in the music video department for Linda Shelton, Linda approved him to work on her crew but Alex was to remain with me due to the fact that he was a teenager working part time. I will testify to the fact that Alex was never alone and he was in my care at all times while working at Three Angels.”
I am not responding to this part. As I cannot, but I can say this is not true.
Second:
“Alex stated, “When my brother and sister-in-law entrusted me to his care while they were attending meetings to adopt a child of their own, the defendant would pretend to take me for a bicycle ride in the woods near the church where he would force me off the trail and molest me.”
I, (Valerie Walker) will testify to the fact that I have never asked my dad (Tommy) to take care of Alex nor have I ever left Alex alone with my dad. When Alex came to Virginia to stay with us for several weeks, I would ask my mom if she would watch Alex from time to time, never my dad.
I, (Bradley Walker) will also testify to the fact that I have never asked Tommy to take care of Alex nor have I ever left Alex alone with Tommy at anytime.
Alex stated, “When I contacted the Fairfax county police and reported what had occurred to me, I had not yet been able to talk of this with anyone.”
----In this part of the letter they make it clear that I was indeed left alone with Carol and Tommy Shelton. Does anyone see a denial in that? EVEN if they did ask Carol how can they be sure that Tommy did not have access to me.
Third:
“In my one conversation I, (Bradley) had with Alex, he told me that he did not contact the Fairfax county police it was done without his permission and he was going to sue the detective that contacted him, because he did not want to be involved. I, (Valerie) can testify that I heard this conversation also.”
---Has my brother, Brad Walker, forgotten the rest of this conversation? A conversation that was documented and will be used at trial? The conversation where he said “I feel responsible for what happened to you, because mom and dad left you in my care?” Also, the part where He kept saying how “horrible” he felt? When he also stated, “I have never, nor would I ever leave my young son alone with Tommy?”
Lastly:
“My, (Bradley) family is very large and we all are use to hearing the biggest and inflated stories that originated from Alex, anything from baseball size brain tumors (He had last year) to saying our father died because he (Alex) didn’t want to loose his job. Alex has always embellished the truth or lied to get any attention he can.”
I will not discuss this at all, but will state this…..This will be proven in court. I will not respond to it until then. I will state I have no issues allowing ANYONE to evaluate my medical history.
IMO, if this is the case that the defence is going to use. I indeed look forward to going to court even more now. I find it funny that the other side is raging how weak the prosecution is. How is this not weak?
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Re: Tommy...
Postby Nikolas » Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:23 am UTC
Alex Walkers mom and dad have just made a video where they say he has a huge problem with lying and will do anything for attention. They believe they will not see him in Heaven if he doesn't stop lying about this Tommy thing. Alex better not lie and say they didn't make it or they might be forced to show some of it.
Alex has stated many times that his parents are behind him and his mother wouldn't testify against him, yet this letter from his parents was addressed to the Judge. This is irrefutable proof of how he lies.
October 18, 2010
Honorable Judge **********,
We are Deon & Geneva Walker the parents of Alex L. Walker.
We would like to inform you of the false statements in Alex’s letter that he has presented to you….
Alex stated that when he was a child, Tommy Shelton would care for him,
“Pastor Shelton ingrained himself into my family and my personal life for years.”
We can testify to the fact that Tommy was never apart of Alex’s personal life, nor did he ever care for him while he was a child or during his school years. Tommy was not residing in the same state, Tommy lived in Virginia from 1995 to 2000 then he moved to Kentucky where he lived until June 2010.
Alex also stated, “My parents had me see a psychologist. I have treated with him for several years and have been prescribed numerous medications.”
We can testify to the fact that Alex was diagnosed with ADD with hyperactivity at the age of three years and ten months with levels of psychosocial stress due to early history of neglect. He was prescribed Ritalin at the age of four and was recommended to become involved with a psychiatric facility for his upcoming management. We’ve always had problems with Alex’s outbursts and behavioral problems as his doctors even noted that his persistent, angry, defiant moods would exhaust the whole family. Since Alex was placed in our home until he became a teenager, his attitude and embellishments has always preceded his reputation. This is one of the reasons Alex went to visit for five weeks with our son and daughter-in-law, Bradley and Valerie Walker in Virginia when he was eleven years old.
Alex also stated, “I was not able to focus in school there was constant turmoil at home because I did not know how to handle this hate I had for the defendant.”
We can testify to the fact that Alex had problems from preschool through high school; he was defiant and disrespectful to authority, lying often to gain attention.
Alex statement, “Tommy Shelton should be punished for what he did. In my eyes, there is no sentence heavy enough to give back what he has taken from me. I ask the court to do whatever it can to punish Tommy and to protect others from what was forced upon me.”
Today, Alex called and shared with me that he would be coming to Virginia this weekend to the trial but he hoped you, “The Judge” would accept the plea bargain and no harm would come to Tommy.
Alex’s Statement, “Because of what the defendant did to me I also came to resent my own dad. I am not sure why, but I have sometimes wondered if it was because my dad is also a pastor. I am glad to say that after several years, we have begun to rekindle our relationship.”
I being the Father to Alex, can say, “I have tried to maintain my relationship with Alex as I have with my other sons. The problems Alex has in his life have nothing to do with Tommy. Alex has always blamed others for his problems, and I feel his need for attention and the people he now communicates with has convinced him he can gain millions from civil suits and false claims to insurance companies. I pray that my son would only tell you the truth the whole truth and nothing else.”
And I being the Mother of Alex can state that I can see large inconsistencies with his stories of Tommy. Alex was never alone nor had the opportunity to be alone nor even around Tommy and his family while he was growing up (with the exceptions of the five weeks in Virginia while he was in the care of Bradley and Valerie). Its hard to say this about my son, but from my experience with him, you have not heard the truth. I have seen Alex in the past hurt others to gain from their misfortune and I feel Alex is deceiving you and this court.
It is our prayer that God will give you guidance in your decision and wisdom in all you do.
Sincerely,
Deon & Geneva Walker
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I have taken the advice of a good friend and have removed my reply. I will just add that I now know who "Nikolas" is and will be revealing THEIR identity shortly. After I speak to a few close friends. :)
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"Nikolas" Sorry I have to giggle since I now know who this is:
Alex Walkers mom and dad have just made a video where they say he has a huge problem with lying and will do anything for attention. They believe they will not see him in Heaven if he doesn't stop lying about this Tommy thing. Alex better not lie and say they didn't make it or they might be forced to show some of it.
It is true that there was a video made. I know who made it and the people associated with it. I will be realeasing their identities soon.
BY ALL MEANS SHOW IT!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SHOW IT!
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Alex, as the hounds of hell bay, pay them no attention. Chin held high, just walk the path and realize that they only become meaningful as you acknowledge them. Please reconsider any further response to them. By responding, you are playing right into what they intend for you.
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In the late seventies, as people began defecting from Jim Jones and his group, parents tried to get their children out of Jonestown, but Jones used the testimony of family and even showed proof that these parents had ceded custody of those children to him. Many of those children were given fatal injections or drank the Kool Aid laced with cianide on the day when over 900 people died at the orders of Jones.
Later, husbands gave their wives, and parents offered up their children to David Koresh for sexual pleasure and then death... There is nothing new under the sun.
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In the late seventies, as people began defecting from Jim Jones and his group, parents tried to get their children out of Jonestown, but Jones used the testimony of family and even showed proof that these parents had ceded custody of those children to him. Many of those children were given fatal injections or drank the Kool Aid laced with cianide on the day when over 900 people died at the orders of Jones.
Later, husbands gave their wives, and parents offered up their children to David Koresh for sexual pleasure and then death... There is nothing new under the sun.
Thank you, Murcielago. I believe this is the case now, however, a little different.
I remember that when Tommy was first arrested my mother clearly stated that she was not going to be involved in this case. She assured me that she would be best fit to stay out. If you recall it was stated on this forum that she had been subpoenaed when it was first scheduled for trial. Why? Why did she say she would not involve herself in this, yet she has?
The answer is simple. She has been threatened. Not a threat of danger or intimidation, but a threat nonetheless. Sources and a couple of my own family members have given me the reason of her change of heart. Everyone of the persons I have spoken to have confirmed the same story. They tell me that Brad and Valerie has made comments about leaving. Possibly moving to Mississippi close to Tommy and Carol and Valeries sister, Geri Lynn. They have further stated to me that if she did not help, she was afraid that they would move.
Is this possibly a Shelton tactic to use emotions to get what they want? Why all of the sudden did my mother have a change of heart from the time I told her about the occurrences 2 years ago? Why did she encourage me not to talk to the authorities because she didn't want family turmoil?
Why has my mother made open statements to people that she believes that Tommy is capable of this and that she fears the well-being of her grandson? A grandson that both her and the Shelton's share? It makes you wonder what kind of attempts or discussions are occurring.
After a few phone calls late this evening I was able to find out who "Nikolas" was and was also able to figure out who was involved in this taping that "Nikolas" speaks about. Their identities are known and they can't hide.
Some will probably accuse me of attacking my family that is not the case. However, they seem relentless in their attacks on me. I believe that my mother has not been totally honest. I fear that she has been trapped into a corner with no site of return. Why do I say this? She has assured me on many occasions that she does not speak to anyone. That has proven to be false. She further assured me that she would not be involved that too, has proven to be false. She has also made statements about Tommy that she believes he's capable of such crimes. (I can prove she said these before anyone questions or calls me a liar.) She now is standing in defense of him.
One may ask is the crime committed against your son worth standing in defense of a molestor? I believe she has decided that she has no choice, afraid that she may lose her son Brad if he moves. One may also ask, is it worth the family turmoil? Again I believe she has answered that too. It appears that she wants complete alienation of myself towards the family, maybe not, but that's what is going to have to occur. I am thankful that there are still family and friends who are on my side and who are encouraging me to move ahead.
Again, I state to "Nikolas" post your video. What do I have to hide? Absolutely nothing, so post it. Again, this not an attack on my family, but sometimes you have to stand firm and you have to follow your heart. I have given my whole being to God and as my mother once stated "If God be for me who can be against me?"
I bid you all peace and happiness.
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Getting amazingly hot as the verdict is approaching. Is it surprising the methods used remind me so much of Danny Shelton's statements several years back? Goes in the family?
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AT Community: Remove Alex Walker from this horrific situation and you still have a man that has spent 30 years abusing. Society doesn't need Alex to put an end to the opportunities of more abuse. If his family stays on course to annihilate his character and deem him not credible, do they think that it will lift/change/redeem the character of Tommy Shelton?
(Two letters written to the Judge in an attempt to sway his decision....really?")
So, remove Alex Walker and take serious note to the fact that there are other victims. One that will make his way back up to Northern Virginia on December 21st -- to one more time stand before strangers and relive his nightmare.
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AT Community: Remove Alex Walker from this horrific situation and you still have a man that has spent 30 years abusing. Society doesn't need Alex to put an end to the opportunities of more abuse. If his family stays on course to annihilate his character and deem him not credible, do they think that it will lift/change/redeem the character of Tommy Shelton?
(Two letters written to the Judge in an attempt to sway his decision....really?")
So, remove Alex Walker and take serious note to the fact that there are other victims. One that will make his way back up to Northern Virginia on December 21st -- to one more time stand before strangers and relive his nightmare.
Wonder how that will help the judge evaluate the letters he has received about Alex?
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AT Community: Remove Alex Walker from this horrific situation and you still have a man that has spent 30 years abusing. Society doesn't need Alex to put an end to the opportunities of more abuse. If his family stays on course to annihilate his character and deem him not credible, do they think that it will lift/change/redeem the character of Tommy Shelton?
(Two letters written to the Judge in an attempt to sway his decision....really?")
So, remove Alex Walker and take serious note to the fact that there are other victims. One that will make his way back up to Northern Virginia on December 21st -- to one more time stand before strangers and relive his nightmare.
Wonder how that will help the judge evaluate the letters he has received about Alex?
Johann my good friend:
These letters was submitted to the judge at the plea hearing. The judge in fact did read them and still rejected the deal. It is apparent that these letters had no effect on his decision. The judge didn't buy them and neither should anyone else.
I just want it clear that these are the letters that was submitted at the plea deal. And even the judge said this wasn't good enough to discredit me.
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About the comment from Valerie Walker that she never asked her dad. She knew that her mother was a facilitator of this behavior. She should have left him when Valerie was having profanity written on her car by people. She was called horrible names on behalf of her dad and her mother stayed with the man even though several young men had made accusations. If it had been just one maybe I could understand but several you know there has to be something happening that should not be.
Everyone will be shut up when this goes to trial. I am sure there is sufficient evidence to convict TS, as he should be convicted for the harm for life he has caused to all the young men he has abused.
Brad, Valerie and Carol, SHAME ON YOU FOR TAKING TS SIDE WHEN YOU WOULDN'T EVEN LEAVE YOUR OWN GRANDSON AND SON ALONE WITH HIM. Especially since he is reaching the age that TS likes. All three of you should be ashamed of yourselves. You also will be judged according to your involvement in letting this man continue to abuse children. God forbid that he abuses Your son or Your grandson. Because if he abused his own son whom he adopted he will also abuse your son whom you have adopted. I would think you would want to protect him at any cost. At any cost I mean you should have no problem with TS being convicted. I would rather my SON be SAFE then to have him deal with a lifetime of torture because a man he trusted molested or raped him. PROTECT THE CHILD GOD HAS INTRUSTED YOU WITH AND NOT THE NARCISSISTIC PEDOPHILE. And for you Naysayers who are going to leave nasty comments BLAH BLAH BLAH. I COULD CARE LESS WHAT YOUR OPINION IS. YOU TOO WILL BE JUDGED BY GOD BECAUSE OF YOUR SUPPORT FOR THIS NARCISSISTIC PEDOPHILE. AND YES I USED THAT WORD AGAIN NARCISSISTIC. I THINK IT DESCRIBES ts perfectly
The narcissist is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy (perfectionist) , power (we all know the fury that you got when you disagreed with him he wanted preeminence) , prestige ("prestige" comes from the Latin præstigum, meaning a delusion or a trick. I would say being a pastor while you abused kids you caused many people to hold you in high esteem so in a since you did trick and decieve people)and vanity (ask him to go with out his hair, LOL not happening).
So let me explain this is terms that is very easy to understand, one we would tell our child, TS is a bad man a very bad man.
So to those who defend TS again to me your opinion in null and void. When you speak all I hear is just like the teacher on Charlie Brown. Waw Waw waw waw wawhaa.
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About the comment from Valerie Walker that she never asked her dad. She knew that her mother was a facilitator of this behavior. She should have left him when Valerie was having profanity written on her car by people. She was called horrible names on behalf of her dad and her mother stayed with the man even though several young men had made accusations. If it had been just one maybe I could understand but several you know there has to be something happening that should not be.
Everyone will be shut up when this goes to trial. I am sure there is sufficient evidence to convict TS, as he should be convicted for the harm for life he has caused to all the young men he has abused.
Brad, Valerie and Carol, SHAME ON YOU FOR TAKING TS SIDE WHEN YOU WOULDN'T EVEN LEAVE YOUR OWN GRANDSON AND SON ALONE WITH HIM. Especially since he is reaching the age that TS likes. All three of you should be ashamed of yourselves. You also will be judged according to your involvement in letting this man continue to abuse children. God forbid that he abuses Your son or Your grandson. Because if he abused his own son whom he adopted he will also abuse your son whom you have adopted. I would think you would want to protect him at any cost. At any cost I mean you should have no problem with TS being convicted. I would rather my SON be SAFE then to have him deal with a lifetime of torture because a man he trusted molested or raped him. PROTECT THE CHILD GOD HAS INTRUSTED YOU WITH AND NOT THE NARCISSISTIC PEDOPHILE. And for you Naysayers who are going to leave nasty comments BLAH BLAH BLAH. I COULD CARE LESS WHAT YOUR OPINION IS. YOU TOO WILL BE JUDGED BY GOD BECAUSE OF YOUR SUPPORT FOR THIS NARCISSISTIC PEDOPHILE. AND YES I USED THAT WORD AGAIN NARCISSISTIC. I THINK IT DESCRIBES ts perfectly
The narcissist is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy (perfectionist) , power (we all know the fury that you got when you disagreed with him he wanted preeminence) , prestige ("prestige" comes from the Latin præstigum, meaning a delusion or a trick. I would say being a pastor while you abused kids you caused many people to hold you in high esteem so in a since you did trick and decieve people)and vanity (ask him to go with out his hair, LOL not happening).
So let me explain this is terms that is very easy to understand, one we would tell our child, TS is a bad man a very bad man.
So to those who defend TS again to me your opinion in null and void. When you speak all I hear is just like the teacher on Charlie Brown. Waw Waw waw waw wawhaa.
:goodpost: :TY: Excellent post!
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Johan:
The judge is required to consider only what is admitted in open court and subject rebuttal.
This is what that all means from a practical standpoint: The person(s) who wrote the the letters will have to testify on the stand, under oath. Their testimony will be subject to cross-examination. They will only be allowed to testify in accord with what the judge allows them to testify about.
No one will be required to place them on the stand.
Portions of their testimony, if they do testify, may be stricken from the record.
Without their personal testimony, it is highly unlikely that their views on the issues will ever be considered by the court.
Personally, if I were the attorney defending TS, I would not want to place them on the stand, especially after they wrote the letter and it became public. They said some things that are not helpful to TS.
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Johan:
The judge is required to consider only what is admitted in open court and subject rebuttal.
This is what that all means from a practical standpoint: The person(s) who wrote the the letters will have to testify on the stand, under oath. Their testimony will be subject to cross-examination. They will only be allowed to testify in accord with what the judge allows them to testify about.[/color]
Gregory, that is my understanding as well. I have very limited experience with the court system, but I once attended a trial in a neighboring county, and the judge began by saying he had received a couple of letters, that it was highly inappropriate, and that he did not and could not read them. He seemed incensed that someone would try to predispose his opinion prior to trial. Right or wrong, our system is set up so that a person's guilt must be proven within the confines of the courtroom, using a very precise protocol. [This is why, by the same token, the fact that Mr. Shelton pled guilty, which means to most of us, "ahh, he concedes that he's guilty, and he cannot undo that" is a non-issue since the plea was rejected and he now goes to trial. It's as though Part I never happened, in the eyes of the court. Clearly this has its pros and cons, depending on whose ox is being gored.]
sorry I cannot figure out the quote thing.
I hope the "quote thing" is right now! Edited by Johann.
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"Give me Liberty, or give me Death!" is a famous quotation attributed to Patrick Henry from a speech he made to the Virginia Convention. It was given on March 23, 1775, at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia, and is credited with having swung the balance in convincing the Virginia House of Burgesses to pass a resolution delivering the Virginia troops to the Revolutionary War. Among the delegates to the convention were future US Presidents Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. Reportedly, those in attendance, upon hearing the speech, shouted, "give me liberty or give me death!" - Wikipedia
"God Bless America" is an American patriotic song written by Irving Berlin in 1918 and revised by him in 1938, as sung by Kate Smith (becoming her signature song).
"God Bless America" takes the form of a prayer (intro lyrics "as we raise our voices, in a solemn prayer") for God's blessing and peace for the nation ("...stand beside her and guide her through the night...").
What makes America such a great nation?
PAST TENSE PLEASE!!!
America is now bankrupt in every sense of the word, as in financially, morally and empirically.
We have a 14.3 TRILLION dollar deficit...the Federal Reserve Board has just revealed that they have committed upwards of another 9.3 TRILLION to preventing a massive recession from becoming the worst depression in history, including the acquisition of over a TRILLION of those US Treasuries to support the continued deficit spending. And then there is the Maiden Lane Trusts for alt A and subrime loans all collateralized with loans attached to a collapsed real property market that nationally has now depreciated more than in the great depression. The treasury claims we have earned over 35 Billion on the TARP Bailout, but the banks still must deliver hundreds of billions to the Federal Reserve window because there is virtually no other secondary market willing to buy american mortgage certificates (taking dollars from one pocket and putting it in the other and then call it economic growth). I could go on and on with one disclosure after another that would scare the living daylights out of you. We are literally held together with wishfull thinking and a world that does not dare call in our debt lest the entire world economy collapse. A modern version of Mutually Assured Destruction!!!
Morally, we no longer choose to hold anyone accountable for this banking mess because we would have to prosecute most of Wall Street and as much as 20% of the rest of America that variously took advantage of mega banking with no Glass Steigal Restraints (abandoned by the Clinton Adminstration) and a mortgage banking industry in cahoots with realtors to buy and sell houses at any price to any fool willing to buy and presumably pay, without regard to the ability of any consumer to pay and virtually no accountability for their actions. And worse, no thought of the consequences and the whirlwind it would reap.
We have abrogated our God and the Judeo Christian principles in the name of unfettered immigration and politically correct integration of every possible religion and heresy one could think of, including devil worship.
We have abrogated our constitution and abandoned "one republic for which we stand" in exchange for no republic at all. We do this under the premise that a "democracy" is our real governance and with it comes the anarchy of which we were warned.
Simply put, GOD CANNOT BLESS AMERICA, as if he did He would have to apologize to Sodom and Gommorah!!!
Let me be clear...GOD CANNOT BLESS AMERICA as it would be a heresy!!!
I await the FALSE revival and reformation as it is inevitable, and will be the foundation for the true revival and reformation
and the Load cry to follow. Then on to a Theocracy!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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A SPECIAL MESSAGE TO NOSIR MYZING and CINDY to pass along from Gailon Arthur Joy, AUREPORTER:
A criminal trial has a very high standard regarding the Rules of Evidence and what would be allowed as testimony. The only statements allowed will be personal knowledge. The only documents allowed will be those properly introduced, including any medical or therapy records, by either the creator or the appropriate keeper of the records, and must be properly vetted. The jury must find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
A civil trial, however, does not require the same standard. It must be by a preponderance of the evidence. The preponderence of the evidence weighs very heavily against Tommy and Brad Walker. I will point out that the preponderence of the evidence will show that Brad Walker, the philanderer, and the intervenor regarding Tommy's decadent pedophilia, must tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth regarding his knowledge of Tommy's victims, including Tommy's own son. Yes, I DARE bring up the subject of Tommy's own son in Virginia and Brad's actual knowledge and role therein. "And where art thou accusers?"...I AM HERE. Ready, willing and ABLE!!!
I will make the very public statement that I view Brad Walker as as an extortionist, a liar, yet another hypocrit and most likely guilty of witness tampering, interference in an ongoing criminal investigation and worthy of jail time to consider his
vicious effort to aid, abet and support a well-known pedophile that has now publicly acknowleged his guilt, a document likely allowable in a civivl trial. Brad has proven to be a snake in the grass and should reap all the rewards that such a vicious hypocrit should reap. He has repaid his ill founded loyalty to Danny Lee Shelton all too well and all too viciously to be left without penalty. He is nothing but a hireling of little moral value, as has his chosen leader, Danny Lee Shelton, and the rest of the rabble that has participated in this unlawful interference in a criminal investigation and prosecution. May the rule of law fall in full force upon them!!!
It is noteworthy that Duffy's first demand letter was with regard to the allegations against Tommy Lee Shelton. Unfortunately, 3ABN and DLS elected to avoid a trial based on Tommy, which I STILL WELCOME!!!
I will very willingly accept service, answer and prosecute a civil action regarding the Tommy Lee Shelton cover-up, but, expect a very vigorous counterclaim out of the gate...there will no exit be allowed with a motion to dismiss by the plaintiff's until the case is resolved by a jury of our peers. And you can bet again, that I will not opt for a motion to dismiss in contravention to the litigation gamebook.
And no, I would not create a SAVE-TOMMY-SHELTON.com, but rather a CONDEMN-TOMMY-SHELTON.com.
BRAD, Tommy, DLS...MAKE MY DAY!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Though I am surprised at the stand Brad Walker is taking re: his brother's allegations, I would be hard pressed to call him a "philanderer" - that seems to teeter on the brink of character assassination. He may be a lot of things, but I would question that particular pejorative. JMHO, of course.
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Though I am surprised at the stand Brad Walker is taking re: his brother's allegations, I would be hard pressed to call him a "philanderer" - that seems to teeter on the brink of character assassination. He may be a lot of things, but I would question that particular pejorative. JMHO, of course.
My brother Brad Walker is indeed a "philanderer". The other side can say what they want, but he has problems with "women". Ask Tammy Larson.
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Though I am surprised at the stand Brad Walker is taking re: his brother's allegations, I would be hard pressed to call him a "philanderer" - that seems to teeter on the brink of character assassination. He may be a lot of things, but I would question that particular pejorative. JMHO, of course.
If that is your HONEST opinion, be sure to pass the challenge along...I anxiously await service of process for a "defamation" claim...just remember, if it is true...it cannot defame. So let this serve as the test!!!
Oh, and what about the Tommy's son issue? Did you shrink from this issue? And why? Be sure to ask Brad about his role and be sure to ask why he would turn on his own family to save his own job with Danny Lee Shelton...just how low can a man go before he has reached a level of NO RETURN. I say Brad has gone there!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Dear Mr. Joy,
In response to your post addressing VestedInterest: her opinion of Brad Walker being anything but faithful to his wife is one that's shared by me. During their years at the DLCCoG his behavior never once (that I'm aware of) pointed toward infidelity.
I too am surprised at his reactions. His letter written to the Judge is laced with deception. Left out would be his knowledge of what is truthful and presenting it in writing to the Judge in order to equip him to make a truely sound and fair judgement. (I beleive the word Wisdom was used.)
Taking the liberty of speaking on behalf of Vested -- shrinking, no. Not the case. You're a reporter....dig deeper.
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EXCUSE ME PEOPLE! Where have you been????
After returning from Virginia to Illinois, my brother, Brad did have an affair with my sister in law with a camera operator at 3ABN.
That explains why Brad and Val, felt it necessary to obtain marriage counseling. It is NO secret that he has issues with "women".
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Though I am surprised at the stand Brad Walker is taking re: his brother's allegations, I would be hard pressed to call him a "philanderer" - that seems to teeter on the brink of character assassination. He may be a lot of things, but I would question that particular pejorative. JMHO, of course.
If that is your HONEST opinion, be sure to pass the challenge along...I anxiously await service of process for a "defamation" claim...just remember, if it is true...it cannot defame. So let this serve as the test!!!
Oh, and what about the Tommy's son issue? Did you shrink from this issue? And why? Be sure to ask Brad about his role and be sure to ask why he would turn on his own family to save his own job with Danny Lee Shelton...just how low can a man go before he has reached a level of NO RETURN. I say Brad has gone there!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
I was only commenting on your use of the word "philanderer" since my acquaintance with Brad was limited to his time in VA during which I saw no indication of anything untoward. I was not addressing the issue of Rick Shelton at all, but I am familiar with it. I have every reason to believe TS is guilty, and that there are members of his family who have been complicit. I, too am looking for justice to be done. But at the end of the day I don't want to be guilty of an un-Christlike demeanor because of my interest in such an emotionally charged case. I know you don't either. Just trying to encourage a little Ephesians 4:15 speaking the truth in love... we all need to be reminded.
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Alex --- not saying that adultery hasn't been committed. Just that it wasn't evident in Virginia. Brad's behaviour did nothing to stir up my suspicions. That's all. There is no benefit in trying to make more of it. Ease up.
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Dear Mr. Joy,
In response to your post addressing VestedInterest: her opinion of Brad Walker being anything but faithful to his wife is one that's shared by me. During their years at the DLCCoG his behavior never once (that I'm aware of) pointed toward infidelity.
I too am surprised at his reactions. His letter written to the Judge is laced with deception. Left out would be his knowledge of what is truthful and presenting it in writing to the Judge in order to equip him to make a truely sound and fair judgement. (I beleive the word Wisdom was used.)
Taking the liberty of speaking on behalf of Vested -- shrinking, no. Not the case. You're a reporter....dig deeper.
Thank-you for your response.
I have never spoken with Alex regarding Brad and Val Walker. My information came from that "sieve" called the 3ABN campus. While their various threats have limited the willingness of some witnesses to communicate with this reporter, it is a revolving door and for the most part, like most institutions, an information sieve.
We have always only reported stories where we had at least two witnesses confirm the story.
As to his years at Dun Loring, most of our information relating to the various victims at Dun Loring came from that institutional "sieve" and some from confirmed various officers and directors, until the insurer stepped in to quell the
flow of information and until the church ordered a close to the flow of information. While I understand the insurance
counsels position relating to these claims, we know that many in influence knew or should have known what happened and did fail to report it. Some are even court officers and still held their silence. In my book, I am surprised the institution is not to be held liable for the actions, official and unofficial, commission and ommission. Of course, the final chapter is not yet written.
For the record, my notes indicate more than three victims, including some who yet struggle with an alternative lifestyle unacceptable to even the Dun Loring congregation.
However, having spoken at length with your Pastor, I must say that I clearly understand his dilemma and the conflicts raised and dealt with over the years. I also understand how Tommy was able to "ease" his way into the role of Pastor those many years ago. I do find Dwayne and Alex's extreme dislike for the pastor a bit mis-placed compared to the issues with Tommy Ray Shelton, but I leave that to their relationship with their God and His church families.
I believe I have made it quite clear my views of Brad and I do so without remorse or reconsideration. These loathesome creatures deserve the trap that is most certainly set for them as they prepare to testify in the Commonwealth vs Tommy Ray Shelton and may the Lord have mercy on them and their co-conspirators. Not that they deserve one once of mercy, and I pray they will get what they deserve. It is not severe enough!!! Water boarding at Guantanamo is the least of what they deserve!!!
With any good case management, Brad, Val and the parents will have to deliver up the real "pied piper" to save themselves from a court system that will find the truth...and to think they used the resources of 3ABN to carry out their devious plans. Just how blind do they think we are? Some conspirators just can't help themselves and will stoop to new lows every day to save even the likes of Tommy Ray Shelton from the justice he so clearly deserves. And just how many at 3ABN are implicated?
I, for one, would love to have at such a cross examination of their testimony, particularly of a broken grandmother confessing that she had been told if she did not do this insidious tape she would "never see the grandchildren again" and then realizing that her testimony just might result in Brad not seeing them for awhile, unless he turns on the real "pied piper" of the racketeering, influence peddling and corrupt organization known as 3ABN. Just how many 3ABN employees are involved in this conspiracy to subvert justice? And what was promised in exchange for their participation? And who is the Pied Piper?
Yes, Danny Lee Shelton is even at the center of this incredible subversion of truth...the one committed to breaking mended fences!!! The anointed of the Lord is at the epicenter of this process to save his miscreant brother in crime.
And did the president, (yes, we are talking about James Gilley) know about the subversion being prepared for a court system that constitutes a fraud upon the court? Was Simpson part of this process while pretending to mediate a deal to get the victims paid? All questions that will have far reaching consequences to the coming defense!!!
What a story we will have when this is all revealed!!!
Believe me, we are on it!!! You are free to republish this with impunity as counterstrike is not far away!!! We will continue to report the facts as they unfold.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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vestedinterest, please tell Anne Webb hello for me.
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Second:
“Alex stated, “When my brother and sister-in-law entrusted me to his care while they were attending meetings to adopt a child of their own, the defendant would pretend to take me for a bicycle ride in the woods near the church where he would force me off the trail and molest me.”
I, (Valerie Walker) will testify to the fact that I have never asked my dad (Tommy) to take care of Alex nor have I ever left Alex alone with my dad. When Alex came to Virginia to stay with us for several weeks, I would ask my mom if she would watch Alex from time to time, never my dad.
I, (Bradley Walker) will also testify to the fact that I have never asked Tommy to take care of Alex nor have I ever left Alex alone with Tommy at anytime.
Alex stated, “When I contacted the Fairfax county police and reported what had occurred to me, I had not yet been able to talk of this with anyone.”
----In this part of the letter they make it clear that I was indeed left alone with Carol and Tommy Shelton. Does anyone see a denial in that? EVEN if they did ask Carol how can they be sure that Tommy did not have access to me.
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Tommy, Carol, Brad and Valerie all live in the same house, which was the church parsonage? A sexual predator would easily gain access to a child in this situation. You do not have to leave a child with someone for them to have a chance to end up together. Why do they think they are so sure that they never left Alex alone with Tommy? Is this something they knew they should not do? They must have known that Tommy had a problem back then and should not be alone with children.
In looking at the map at the following link:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Dunn+Loring,+VA&sll=38.878205,-77.221527&sspn=0.143792,0.225563&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Dunn+Loring,+Fairfax,+Virginia&ll=38.889596,-77.226564&spn=0.002246,0.005558&t=h&z=18 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Dunn+Loring,+VA&sll=38.878205,-77.221527&sspn=0.143792,0.225563&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Dunn+Loring,+Fairfax,+Virginia&ll=38.889596,-77.226564&spn=0.002246,0.005558&t=h&z=18)
There is a house, church building and building behind the church. It would be impossible to say that a child predator, which had access to everywhere, could not be alone with a child on this property. The fact that a park is directly adjacent to the church property would make it even easier. It is scary to think of how many kids would have been in that park from 1995 to 2000.
The prosecutor would have a great time cross examining Brad and Valerie:
Q. Were you aware of any problems Tommy had about being around young boys?
A. No
Q. Then why are you so sure you never left Alex with him?
A. uhhh... We kept track of Alex's every move and uhhh...
Q. Tommy was a family member living in the same house with you, what would be wrong with Tommy being with Alex?
A. Oh, there would not be a problem with Alex being alone with Tommy. We just, uhhh, uhh...
What do others think about this?
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I believe it would be impossible to categorically rule out Alex's ever being alone with Tommy during time spent in VA. It would not be unreasonable to think the Walkers would have agreed to Tommy and Alex taking a bike ride while Brad and Valerie were otherwise occupied.
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I believe it would be impossible to categorically rule out Alex's ever being alone with Tommy during time spent in VA. It would not be unreasonable to think the Walkers would have agreed to Tommy and Alex taking a bike ride while Brad and Valerie were otherwise occupied.
Vestedinterest,
Can you please confirm whether they all lived in the same house?
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Though I am surprised at the stand Brad Walker is taking re: his brother's allegations, I would be hard pressed to call him a "philanderer" - that seems to teeter on the brink of character assassination. He may be a lot of things, but I would question that particular pejorative. JMHO, of course.
If that is your HONEST opinion, be sure to pass the challenge along...I anxiously await service of process for a "defamation" claim...just remember, if it is true...it cannot defame. So let this serve as the test!!!
Oh, and what about the Tommy's son issue? Did you shrink from this issue? And why? Be sure to ask Brad about his role and be sure to ask why he would turn on his own family to save his own job with Danny Lee Shelton...just how low can a man go before he has reached a level of NO RETURN. I say Brad has gone there!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
I was only commenting on your use of the word "philanderer" since my acquaintance with Brad was limited to his time in VA during which I saw no indication of anything untoward. I was not addressing the issue of Rick Shelton at all, but I am familiar with it. I have every reason to believe TS is guilty, and that there are members of his family who have been complicit. I, too am looking for justice to be done. But at the end of the day I don't want to be guilty of an un-Christlike demeanor because of my interest in such an emotionally charged case. I know you don't either. Just trying to encourage a little Ephesians 4:15 speaking the truth in love... we all need to be reminded.
How is it that you and others know about an issue with Rick Shelton, Tommy's son? Has Tommy admitted that there was or is an issue? Or has Rick shared this?
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I believe it would be impossible to categorically rule out Alex's ever being alone with Tommy during time spent in VA. It would not be unreasonable to think the Walkers would have agreed to Tommy and Alex taking a bike ride while Brad and Valerie were otherwise occupied.
Vestedinterest,
Can you please confirm whether they all lived in the same house?
I'm not sure if a confirmation from me is good enough, but yes they did. Brad and Valerie remodled the downstairs into a home in the basement. Tommy and Carol lived upstairs.
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Second:
“Alex stated, “When my brother and sister-in-law entrusted me to his care while they were attending meetings to adopt a child of their own, the defendant would pretend to take me for a bicycle ride in the woods near the church where he would force me off the trail and molest me.”
I, (Valerie Walker) will testify to the fact that I have never asked my dad (Tommy) to take care of Alex nor have I ever left Alex alone with my dad. When Alex came to Virginia to stay with us for several weeks, I would ask my mom if she would watch Alex from time to time, never my dad.
I, (Bradley Walker) will also testify to the fact that I have never asked Tommy to take care of Alex nor have I ever left Alex alone with Tommy at anytime.
Alex stated, “When I contacted the Fairfax county police and reported what had occurred to me, I had not yet been able to talk of this with anyone.”
----In this part of the letter they make it clear that I was indeed left alone with Carol and Tommy Shelton. Does anyone see a denial in that? EVEN if they did ask Carol how can they be sure that Tommy did not have access to me.
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Tommy, Carol, Brad and Valerie all live in the same house, which was the church parsonage? A sexual predator would easily gain access to a child in this situation. You do not have to leave a child with someone for them to have a chance to end up together. Why do they think they are so sure that they never left Alex alone with Tommy? Is this something they knew they should not do? They must have known that Tommy had a problem back then and should not be alone with children.
In looking at the map at the following link:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Dunn+Loring,+VA&sll=38.878205,-77.221527&sspn=0.143792,0.225563&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Dunn+Loring,+Fairfax,+Virginia&ll=38.889596,-77.226564&spn=0.002246,0.005558&t=h&z=18 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Dunn+Loring,+VA&sll=38.878205,-77.221527&sspn=0.143792,0.225563&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Dunn+Loring,+Fairfax,+Virginia&ll=38.889596,-77.226564&spn=0.002246,0.005558&t=h&z=18)
There is a house, church building and building behind the church. It would be impossible to say that a child predator, which had access to everywhere, could not be alone with a child on this property. The fact that a park is directly adjacent to the church property would make it even easier. It is scary to think of how many kids would have been in that park from 1995 to 2000.
The prosecutor would have a great time cross examining Brad and Valerie:
Q. Were you aware of any problems Tommy had about being around young boys?
A. No
Q. Then why are you so sure you never left Alex with him?
A. uhhh... We kept track of Alex's every move and uhhh...
Q. Tommy was a family member living in the same house with you, what would be wrong with Tommy being with Alex?
A. Oh, there would not be a problem with Alex being alone with Tommy. We just, uhhh, uhh...
What do others think about this?
I will make a quick comment on this. I will not state anything that has to do with the case, but will say this. I tend to lean with Gregory, there is alot of information in those letters that will harm Tommy.
After reading them I am now more Ready to testify than ever. I believe that the prosecution can tear those letters apart along with the people who wrote them.
Also, both of my parents was asked if they believed Tommy was a sexual predator. They both said yes. The prosecution is going to have a field day with that.
Lastly: If you notice both letter's point out, especially the one written by my parents that say Tommy had access to me for five weeks. Brad and Val say that they didn't leave me alone with Tommy, but Carol. Do you believe any jury is going to buy that? Especially after it's proven that Carol knew about Tommy and she allowed his actions? I think not.
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Just Wondering: As Alex states, it is one house, with an apartment downstairs where Brad and Valerie lived.
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Though I am surprised at the stand Brad Walker is taking re: his brother's allegations, I would be hard pressed to call him a "philanderer" - that seems to teeter on the brink of character assassination. He may be a lot of things, but I would question that particular pejorative. JMHO, of course.
If that is your HONEST opinion, be sure to pass the challenge along...I anxiously await service of process for a "defamation" claim...just remember, if it is true...it cannot defame. So let this serve as the test!!!
Oh, and what about the Tommy's son issue? Did you shrink from this issue? And why? Be sure to ask Brad about his role and be sure to ask why he would turn on his own family to save his own job with Danny Lee Shelton...just how low can a man go before he has reached a level of NO RETURN. I say Brad has gone there!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
I was only commenting on your use of the word "philanderer" since my acquaintance with Brad was limited to his time in VA during which I saw no indication of anything untoward. I was not addressing the issue of Rick Shelton at all, but I am familiar with it. I have every reason to believe TS is guilty, and that there are members of his family who have been complicit. I, too am looking for justice to be done. But at the end of the day I don't want to be guilty of an un-Christlike demeanor because of my interest in such an emotionally charged case. I know you don't either. Just trying to encourage a little Ephesians 4:15 speaking the truth in love... we all need to be reminded.
How is it that you and others know about an issue with Rick Shelton, Tommy's son? Has Tommy admitted that there was or is an issue? Or has Rick shared this?
Tommy shared this incident with my husband.
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WOW! And that's putting it mildly.
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I believe it would be impossible to categorically rule out Alex's ever being alone with Tommy during time spent in VA. It would not be unreasonable to think the Walkers would have agreed to Tommy and Alex taking a bike ride while Brad and Valerie were otherwise occupied.
Vestedinterest,
Can you please confirm whether they all lived in the same house?
I'm not sure if a confirmation from me is good enough, but yes they did. Brad and Valerie remodled the downstairs into a home in the basement. Tommy and Carol lived upstairs.
A confirmation from you, Alex, is good enough for me.
Just Wondering: As Alex states, it is one house, with an apartment downstairs where Brad and Valerie lived.
And they thought Judge Bellows would believe that it was impossible for TS to have access to Alex? How naive! It sounds like Judge Bellows is a wise man and understands the ways of a typical sexual predator. I am sure he is aware that a predator's family often does everything possible to protect the predator.
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"Nikolas" :ROFL: Where is the video you threatened to show? Let's see it. Talk is cheap. Please post it so all may be able to view and judge it's contents for themselves.
Or, are "You" just another one of those people who "talk" and don't "show".
I know who you are "Nikolas". As well as the steps that you and your cronies used to make this video. I know exactly who was present at that video, and I know it's contents. You believed that it would be left "unknown". I do have people who clue me in on things. ;)
While I could "out" you right now, I won't. However, you have been "outed" to the proper people. I will let them decide what action to take.
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Thank you, VI!!!
I was only commenting on your use of the word "philanderer" since my acquaintance with Brad was limited to his time in VA during which I saw no indication of anything untoward. I was not addressing the issue of Rick Shelton at all, but I am familiar with it. I have every reason to believe TS is guilty, and that there are members of his family who have been complicit. I, too am looking for justice to be done. But at the end of the day I don't want to be guilty of an un-Christlike demeanor because of my interest in such an emotionally charged case. I know you don't either. Just trying to encourage a little Ephesians 4:15 speaking the truth in love... we all need to be reminded.
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I was only commenting on your use of the word "philanderer" since my acquaintance with Brad was limited to his time in VA during which I saw no indication of anything untoward. I was not addressing the issue of Rick Shelton at all, but I am familiar with it. I have every reason to believe TS is guilty, and that there are members of his family who have been complicit. I, too am looking for justice to be done. But at the end of the day I don't want to be guilty of an un-Christlike demeanor because of my interest in such an emotionally charged case. I know you don't either. Just trying to encourage a little Ephesians 4:15 speaking the truth in love... we all need to be reminded.
How is it that you and others know about an issue with Rick Shelton, Tommy's son? Has Tommy admitted that there was or is an issue? Or has Rick shared this?
Tommy shared this incident with my husband.
Wow, VI, that is very disturbing information. TS actually shared this with someone? Unbelievable! Of course he probably also said that doing this is typical for a father/son relationship. (Sick!)
The longer this goes on the worse it looks for TS. If I was TS or his attorney, I would be begging for a plea deal with only 3-4 years of prison time. Otherwise he is going to end up getting the maximum sentence, which I understand to be seven years. It sounds like there is at least one more minor in VA, so this could end up being even longer than seven years.
Let's pray that more and more will come into the light.
"For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known. Therefore whatever you have spoken in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have spoken in the ear in inner rooms will be proclaimed on the housetops.
And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!" (Luke 12:2-5 NKJV)
The Message paraphrase states this passage in an interesting way:
"You can't keep your true self hidden forever; before long you'll be exposed. You can't hide behind a religious mask forever; sooner or later the mask will slip and your true face will be known. You can't whisper one thing in private and preach the opposite in public; the day's coming when those whispers will be repeated all over town.
I'm speaking to you as dear friends. Don't be bluffed into silence or insincerity by the threats of religious bullies. True, they can kill you, but then what can they do? There's nothing they can do to your soul, your core being. Save your fear for God, who holds your entire life—body and soul—in his hands."
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I believe it would be impossible to categorically rule out Alex's ever being alone with Tommy during time spent in VA. It would not be unreasonable to think the Walkers would have agreed to Tommy and Alex taking a bike ride while Brad and Valerie were otherwise occupied.
Vestedinterest,
Can you please confirm whether they all lived in the same house?
Yes, all four of them and Rick all lived in the same house...and if Brad Val and carol had to do an intervention for Rick, what would leave them to conclude that Alex would not need similar support?
And yes, the state has the "rehad" institutional records that followed that little :intervention. So, who would you guess may be facing a perjury and witness tampering charge???
Now, let's see, Brad and Valerie have Alex's mom come to 3ABN to be taped and there is Danny Lee Shelton, two camera staff and we have an "all in the family" recording with Brad's threat hanging over grandma's head that she will never see her grandchildren again. And this after she has already given the prosecutor a statement??? My, oh My!!! What a breaking story!!! Does mom become an "adversarial witness"? Does she reveal all??? And what is the story she will tell?
And guess what...did you wonder why they are going back to the Grand Jury on December 21? DId you ever think it is all about adding ADDITIONAL CHARGES??? And the very following day a pre-trial conference with the Chief Judge for the circuit!!! I can't wait to write that follow-up release!!! No plea options and a great trial!!!
Wonder why 3ABN is begging for another $5 Million...thinks it is for the Gospel message??? Guess again...can you imagine the cost of a defense fund when you take on Manly and the Chicago 3? Simpson is planning on early retirement after this one!!! Maybe they ought to hire BOB...but I hear he is a bit tied up right now...then again, well, I'll let your imagination run wild!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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I believe it would be impossible to categorically rule out Alex's ever being alone with Tommy during time spent in VA. It would not be unreasonable to think the Walkers would have agreed to Tommy and Alex taking a bike ride while Brad and Valerie were otherwise occupied.
Indicating more than is seen on the surface?
Vestedinterest,
Can you please confirm whether they all lived in the same house?
Yes, all four of them and Rick all lived in the same house...and if Brad Val and carol had to do an intervention for Rick, what would leave them to conclude that Alex would not need similar support?
And yes, the state has the "rehad" institutional records that followed that little :intervention. So, who would you guess may be facing a perjury and witness tampering charge???
Now, let's see, Brad and Valerie have Alex's mom come to 3ABN to be taped and there is Danny Lee Shelton, two camera staff and we have an "all in the family" recording with Brad's threat hanging over grandma's head that she will never see her grandchildren again. And this after she has already given the prosecutor a statement??? My, oh My!!! What a breaking story!!! Does mom become an "adversarial witness"? Does she reveal all??? And what is the story she will tell?
And guess what...did you wonder why they are going back to the Grand Jury on December 21? DId you ever think it is all about adding ADDITIONAL CHARGES??? And the very following day a pre-trial conference with the Chief Judge for the circuit!!! I can't wait to write that follow-up release!!! No plea options and a great trial!!!
Wonder why 3ABN is begging for another $5 Million...thinks it is for the Gospel message??? Guess again...can you imagine the cost of a defense fund when you take on Manly and the Chicago 3? Simpson is planning on early retirement after this one!!! Maybe they ought to hire BOB...but I hear he is a bit tied up right now...then again, well, I'll let your imagination run wild!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Tommy shared this incident with my husband.
Is there a reason to believe that Tommy had the same reason for telling him that as when he plead guilty recently? Just wondering.
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No.
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How is it that you and others know about an issue with Rick Shelton, Tommy's son? Has Tommy admitted that there was or is an issue? Or has Rick shared this?
Carol has told people too, from what I understand.
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And they thought Judge Bellows would believe that it was impossible for TS to have access to Alex? How naive! It sounds like Judge Bellows is a wise man and understands the ways of a typical sexual predator. I am sure he is aware that a predator's family often does everything possible to protect the predator.
Do you think Danny Shelton is going to call up Judge Bellows and threaten to sue him for defamation? Danny does go such lengths to protect the predator.
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"Nickolas" :ROFL: Sorry, but that still gives me a chuckle. Posted this:
1. FACT: Alex Walker's parents did not make a video at 3ABN.
2. FACT: Brad Walker never made a threat to his mother."
"Nickolas" You know as well as I do the people that was involved in that video. I'm not sure where it was taped, but I know: 1. Who was present at the taping. 2. Who was behind the tactic.
Second, Brad did in fact make a threat against my mother. My mother told me herself along with a few others that Brad had threatened to move to Mississippi. It's awful strange she was going to stay out of the case then she some how is involved.
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Alex,
I just have to tell you that I am truly sorry that you have had to experience this - all of it and all of the ugly details. And my heart goes out to your parents who are also experiencing so much pain over this. I will never be able to understand the mindset of an adult (and I use that term loosely here) who will use children to influence the actions of of other adults.
Just continue to stand tall and take one day at a time according to His will. I have a great deal of respect for the courage you continue to show.
Snoopy
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Thank you, Snoopy. I appreciate your kind words. They mean a lot to me.
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Proverbs 18:17
17 In a lawsuit the first to speak seems right,
until someone comes forward and cross-examines.
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Proverbs 18:17
17 In a lawsuit the first to speak seems right,
until someone comes forward and cross-examines.
Hey, Johann,
Remember the tape recorded messages Danny Shelton claimed he had...and when he needed to produce them...well you can guess that they did not exist anymore!!! Particularly when he realized they were done as a violation of law and said virtually nothing of serious interest...remember the transcript that turned out Danny had done his own "transcript"??? He claimed others ahd heard the tape, but no such thing happened...just the Danny transcript...which also disappeared!!!
And how about that high cost watch he couldn't document?
We could go on and on!!! And now we have Nikolas...must be worried about "witness tanpering" wouldn't you bet??? Hey,
Nik, a little un-nerved?...Mississippi is still a possibility, but you may be safer in Brazil...no extradition!!! Venezuela is also looking for people with your qualifications!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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See now that is what I am talking about. Danny claimed to have all these tapes, recorded phone conversations, etc., but they never seemed to materialize. All they have now is somebody talking about he saw themholing hands......seven years later............First question....where have you been all this time? Isn't this the type of evidence Danny would have needed.....back then?
Hey, Johann,
Remember the tape recorded messages Danny Shelton claimed he had...and when he needed to produce them...well you can guess that they did not exist anymore!!! Particularly when he realized they were done as a violation of law and said virtually nothing of serious interest...remember the transcript that turned out Danny had done his own "transcript"??? He claimed others ahd heard the tape, but no such thing happened...just the Danny transcript...which also disappeared!!!
And how about that high cost watch he couldn't document?
We could go on and on!!! And now we have Nikolas...must be worried about "witness tanpering" wouldn't you bet??? Hey,
Nik, a little un-nerved?...Mississippi is still a possibility, but you may be safer in Brazil...no extradition!!! Venezuela is also looking for people with your qualifications!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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* * *
And now we have Nikolas...must be worried about "witness tanpering" wouldn't you bet??? Hey,
Nik, a little un-nerved?...Mississippi is still a possibility, but you may be safer in Brazil...no extradition!!! Venezuela is also looking for people with your qualifications!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Some people seem to recognize the vocabulary and dialect of Mr. Danny Shelton in the phraseology of Nik. Quite similar!
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See now that is what I am talking about. Danny claimed to have all these tapes, recorded phone conversations, etc., but they never seemed to materialize. All they have now is somebody talking about he saw themholing hands......seven years later............First question....where have you been all this time? Isn't this the type of evidence Danny would have needed.....back then?
Hey, Johann,
Remember the tape recorded messages Danny Shelton claimed he had...and when he needed to produce them...well you can guess that they did not exist anymore!!! Particularly when he realized they were done as a violation of law and said virtually nothing of serious interest...remember the transcript that turned out Danny had done his own "transcript"??? He claimed others ahd heard the tape, but no such thing happened...just the Danny transcript...which also disappeared!!!
And how about that high cost watch he couldn't document?
We could go on and on!!! And now we have Nikolas...must be worried about "witness tanpering" wouldn't you bet??? Hey,
Nik, a little un-nerved?...Mississippi is still a possibility, but you may be safer in Brazil...no extradition!!! Venezuela is also looking for people with your qualifications!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
In fact we followed all the allegations, including the "hand holding allegation" and like everything else it proved to be a hoax. In fact, the claim was made that a private detective purportedly observed this ---but did not get it documented---
can you imagine a private detective following a target and not taking still or video pictures while the target and her purported beau were walking outside "holding hands"? Such gross incompetence would not be tolerated and in fact no report was ever proffered from ANY detective agency to support these or any other allegations.
Like most of Danny Lee Shelton's commentary, allegations and "proof", it did not pass the most rudimentary test...and once again I ask: How do you know Danny Lee Shelton is lieing? He opens his mouth and speaks!!!
And how do we know that Tommy Ray Shelton is a pedophile? He has admitted it and we have statements regarding 20 plus victims from Southern Illinois to Virginia
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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See now, Johann, that might explain quite a bit.....
Some people seem to recognize the vocabulary and dialect of Mr. Danny Shelton in the phraseology of Nik. Quite similar!
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Just amazing! If you look at the information that the other side is giving out. WHO in their right mind would want people to see the weak case of the Defense? Are these letters to scare and intimidate? Absolutely.
Danny how much you paying your cronies to terrorize the families of victims? It boils down to this: You don't like the fact that two young adults are BRINGING YOU DOWN! You have fancied yourself for years with women, inplants, nice cars, horses, and stolen the money off poor grandma.
Now you have two young men who are giving you a whipping you will NEVER be able to survive. You career, prestige, money and fame, is going bye bye.
You can try everything you want to stop the inevitable. Fact is IT'S TO LATE...YOU'VE BEEN CAUGHT, and THE GIG IS OVER! Been a long time coming but YOU are HISTORY. Hasta Luego Danny!
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About the comment from Valerie Walker that she never asked her dad. She knew that her mother was a facilitator of this behavior. She should have left him when Valerie was having profanity written on her car by people. She was called horrible names on behalf of her dad and her mother stayed with the man even though several young men had made accusations. If it had been just one maybe I could understand but several you know there has to be something happening that should not be.
Everyone will be shut up when this goes to trial. I am sure there is sufficient evidence to convict TS, as he should be convicted for the harm for life he has caused to all the young men he has abused.
Brad, Valerie and Carol, SHAME ON YOU FOR TAKING TS SIDE WHEN YOU WOULDN'T EVEN LEAVE YOUR OWN GRANDSON AND SON ALONE WITH HIM. Especially since he is reaching the age that TS likes. All three of you should be ashamed of yourselves. You also will be judged according to your involvement in letting this man continue to abuse children. God forbid that he abuses Your son or Your grandson. Because if he abused his own son whom he adopted he will also abuse your son whom you have adopted. I would think you would want to protect him at any cost. At any cost I mean you should have no problem with TS being convicted. I would rather my SON be SAFE then to have him deal with a lifetime of torture because a man he trusted molested or raped him. PROTECT THE CHILD GOD HAS INTRUSTED YOU WITH AND NOT THE NARCISSISTIC PEDOPHILE. And for you Naysayers who are going to leave nasty comments BLAH BLAH BLAH. I COULD CARE LESS WHAT YOUR OPINION IS. YOU TOO WILL BE JUDGED BY GOD BECAUSE OF YOUR SUPPORT FOR THIS NARCISSISTIC PEDOPHILE. AND YES I USED THAT WORD AGAIN NARCISSISTIC. I THINK IT DESCRIBES ts perfectly
The narcissist is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy (perfectionist) , power (we all know the fury that you got when you disagreed with him he wanted preeminence) , prestige ("prestige" comes from the Latin præstigum, meaning a delusion or a trick. I would say being a pastor while you abused kids you caused many people to hold you in high esteem so in a since you did trick and decieve people)and vanity (ask him to go with out his hair, LOL not happening).
So let me explain this is terms that is very easy to understand, one we would tell our child, TS is a bad man a very bad man.
So to those who defend TS again to me your opinion in null and void. When you speak all I hear is just like the teacher on Charlie Brown. Waw Waw waw waw wawhaa.
I had to respond to this. I did not see it until just now. This person knows exactly what they are talking about. By the way I loved the Charlie Brown reference.