Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: childoftheking on May 09, 2011, 05:13:16 AM
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http://www.bnd.com/2011/05/08/1700722/money-talks-defendants-walk-ethics.html
http://www.bnd.com/2011/05/09/1701524/close-out-special-funds.html
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Is there any way to find out if Danny or Tommy paid off any one?
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Well, since one of the counties was Franklin County the reporter who did the investigation might be able to tell you if anything was documented. However though these cases were documented, deals are made "under the table" so to speak. Did you read the comments that were made about the article?
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No, I didn't read the comments, but I just went back to do that.
Which comments did you think were of special interest?
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Most seemed to know even before the investigation and there was not a lot of outrage.
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The situation with the five counties in Illinois and the payments is not a good one as reported, BUT...
It is quite a stretch to start surmising and suggesting that this has anything to do with the Sheltons or anyone at 3ABN.
Come on people! (Robert Pickle!) I shouldn't have to come and point out the obvious.
The people this article discusses are "defendants" (meaning they have been officially charged with a crime) "Defendants" who "have paid thousands of dollars into "anti-crime" funds that benefit or are controlled by local prosecutors in return for probation or dismissal of charges."
No matter how many times you have all accused others of crimes etc, and would like to see them as defendants, and/or made to publicly repent -- the fact remains that neither Danny nor Tommy have ever been charged with any crimes in Illinois.
You people need to get a life, or find a new hobby. This is pathetic.
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And which personality behind the "Nosir Myzing" screen name is the above, I wonder.
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The situation with the five counties in Illinois and the payments is not a good one as reported, BUT...
It is quite a stretch to start surmising and suggesting that this has anything to do with the Sheltons or anyone at 3ABN.
Some of Tommy's victims have felt that Danny had something to do with getting Tommy off the hook in the past so he didn't get charged with child molestation. Now it is a fact that Danny has tried to get Tommy off the hook on a number of occasions, and has even resorted to breaking the 10 Commandments to do so. Whether he paid off any one or not on those occasions I do not know.
But regarding 3ABN's property tax case, how many donations and payments did 3ABN make during the course of that case? I think the official record shows that they did make some donations and payments. If it was just out of the goodness of their hearts, then I think we should be able to show over the course of their history before and after that time period that they made other large donations of their assets and/or income to governmental entities in the southern Illinois area.
If we cannot find record of similar large donations of assets and money to governmental entities before and after the property tax case, then, especially in light of this "Does Money Talk" story, I see no problem asking for clarification as to why the donations in question were made.
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P.S. The article does deal with payments after charges were made. If payments are made before charges are made, there is less likely to be as good a paper trail for a newspaper to build a story upon.
The question is appropriate: Just how far are officials willing to go to get money?
A story in the news was about a no-nonsense judge out east who sentenced first-time and minor juvenile offenders harshly. One young man had been arrested at his parent's suggestion to wake him up to how he should stay away from the wrong crowd. After being dealt with harshly by the judge, he lost his scholarship, spiraled down, and committed suicide.
Later it came out that the judge was getting payments from the private juvenile detention facility for every kid he sent there. He's not a judge no more, and as he was leaving the courthouse as the one being judged, the mother of the boy accosted him, yelling, "Remember me?" "I hope you rot in hell."
The newscaster asked her if she could ever forgive the judge. She said, "No." It was sad seeing a mother so distraught over her shattered dreams.
How prevalent is this kind of thing?
I was in a community meeting before a sex offender (child molester) was to be released into the community. We were told the percentage of such crimes actually get reported. At some point we were told what percentage of ex-cons were repeat offenders, which sounded hopeful ... except that if you put the two percentages together, the actual number of repeat offenders must be much higher!
So similarly, how prevalent if this kind of thing? It depends on the percentage of guilty officials that actually get caught.
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Robert doesn't deal with reality. He does not have fact one to attempt to prove that DS has broken the 10 commandments to get TS off the hook as he claims. In fact, that claim of Pickles is false witness and itself violates the 10 commandments... The article referred to here has nothing to do with and never even suggests that payments were made before charges were made. Pickle brings that up as his black tar brush has to make everything implicate or vilificate 3ABN. That is sick, people. The article and situation doesn't mention or include 3ABN, and nothing exists to include them but fevered imaginations. Step back and disassociate yourselves from this kind of thing! Pickle, himself, has questions needing answers. Start asking them!
How about dealing with current issues and facts instead of continuing to make accusations and insinuations without merit or facts to back them? This is VERY old and stale, Robert.
Such as why have you not posted about or announced the fact that you and Joy lost your appeal? Why haven't you revealed that the Appeal court Judges concluded that there was no abuse of discretion in the district court's rulings, and affirmed the district court.? Why have you not addressed the fact that after carefully reviewing both parties submissions and the record that they concluded that your allegations of judicial bias are without merit, and denied all your motions which were pending?
Such as why are you still soliciting funds for your defense when you haven't been a defendant for over 2 years?
Such as where is your accountability about the funds you have solicited? You and Joy claimed an accountability would be made. You personally claimed any excess funds would go to a ministry. Which ministry? Yours? Where was this all filed and reported and why would you reportedly condone a large contribution filtered through a Union Conference ministry so that a donor could remain anonymous and get a untitled and illegal tax write off? Yes, we have known for quite some time about this as it was apparently common knowledge at the time, and since then, insiders (yours), have admitted and testified about that as it bothered them. ( It is always good to see active consciences at work)
Inquiring minds want to know... and those entitled to demand answers, will...
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Sir Myzing,
1) According to Walt Thompson, Danny Shelton led him to believe that the allegations in Glenn Dryden's 2003 letter were 30 years old, and brought about by Dryden's jealousy, when in fact the allegations were as recent as when Tommy left Virginia a few years before that, and the allegations began in Illinois long before Dryden ever moved to Illinois.
Does that not sound like Danny Shelton violated the 10 Commandments?
2) The appeal process is not over.
3) The First Circuit's order was based on Loc. R. 27(c), which allows for the type of order handed down when no substantial question is presented. Now think about that: Whether or not a Rule 41(a)(2) dismissal without prejudice can be granted in order to evade discovery, and in order to protect the plaintiffs rather than the defendants, for which there is no legal authority, that is not a substantial question?
4) Even on our most recent legal papers, we still identify ourselves as defendants, as we are supposed to do.
5) Our legal expenses have not ended.
6) Any donor who wishes to inquire as to our use of funds may do so. But you come across as though you are simply out to smear us.
7) "Reportedly condone." And you call yourself "Nosir Myzing"? Scripture is very clear that we are to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and tribute unto whom tribute is due. And that's what we must go by.
8) It is transparently evident that you wish to distract from my questions regarding donations to governmental entities during 3ABN's property tax case. Why is that?
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Robert doesn't deal with reality. He does not have fact one to attempt to prove that DS has broken the 10 commandments to get TS off the hook as he claims. In fact, that claim of Pickles is false witness and itself violates the 10 commandments... The article referred to here has nothing to do with and never even suggests that payments were made before charges were made. Pickle brings that up as his black tar brush has to make everything implicate or vilificate 3ABN. That is sick, people. The article and situation doesn't mention or include 3ABN, and nothing exists to include them but fevered imaginations. Step back and disassociate yourselves from this kind of thing! Pickle, himself, has questions needing answers. Start asking them!
How about dealing with current issues and facts instead of continuing to make accusations and insinuations without merit or facts to back them? This is VERY old and stale, Robert.
Such as why have you not posted about or announced the fact that you and Joy lost your appeal? Why haven't you revealed that the Appeal court Judges concluded that there was no abuse of discretion in the district court's rulings, and affirmed the district court.? Why have you not addressed the fact that after carefully reviewing both parties submissions and the record that they concluded that your allegations of judicial bias are without merit, and denied all your motions which were pending?
Such as why are you still soliciting funds for your defense when you haven't been a defendant for over 2 years?
Such as where is your accountability about the funds you have solicited? You and Joy claimed an accountability would be made. You personally claimed any excess funds would go to a ministry. Which ministry? Yours? Where was this all filed and reported and why would you reportedly condone a large contribution filtered through a Union Conference ministry so that a donor could remain anonymous and get a untitled and illegal tax write off? Yes, we have known for quite some time about this as it was apparently common knowledge at the time, and since then, insiders (yours), have admitted and testified about that as it bothered them. ( It is always good to see active consciences at work)
Inquiring minds want to know... and those entitled to demand answers, will...
OK - I give. What exactly is a "Union Conference ministry"? I might have thought of 3ABN as a "Union Conference ministry", but depending on which court they are in front of, they claim to be non-denominational. Or, are you suggesting that a Union office of the denomination was involved in something illegal? I'm confused.
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Robert doesn't deal with reality. He does not have fact one to attempt to prove that DS has broken the 10 commandments to get TS off the hook as he claims. In fact, that claim of Pickles is false witness and itself violates the 10 commandments... The article referred to here has nothing to do with and never even suggests that payments were made before charges were made. Pickle brings that up as his black tar brush has to make everything implicate or vilificate 3ABN. That is sick, people. The article and situation doesn't mention or include 3ABN, and nothing exists to include them but fevered imaginations. Step back and disassociate yourselves from this kind of thing! Pickle, himself, has questions needing answers. Start asking them!
How about dealing with current issues and facts instead of continuing to make accusations and insinuations without merit or facts to back them? This is VERY old and stale, Robert.
Such as why have you not posted about or announced the fact that you and Joy lost your appeal? Why haven't you revealed that the Appeal court Judges concluded that there was no abuse of discretion in the district court's rulings, and affirmed the district court.? Why have you not addressed the fact that after carefully reviewing both parties submissions and the record that they concluded that your allegations of judicial bias are without merit, and denied all your motions which were pending?
Such as why are you still soliciting funds for your defense when you haven't been a defendant for over 2 years?
Such as where is your accountability about the funds you have solicited? You and Joy claimed an accountability would be made. You personally claimed any excess funds would go to a ministry. Which ministry? Yours? Where was this all filed and reported and why would you reportedly condone a large contribution filtered through a Union Conference ministry so that a donor could remain anonymous and get a untitled and illegal tax write off? Yes, we have known for quite some time about this as it was apparently common knowledge at the time, and since then, insiders (yours), have admitted and testified about that as it bothered them. ( It is always good to see active consciences at work)
Inquiring minds want to know... and those entitled to demand answers, will...
Why don't you get your head out of the sand. The fact of the matter is 3ABN dismissed their lawsuit. Why? Because they had no case. Now feed your line elsewhere. How about at the site that allows grotesque porno to be published?
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Robert doesn't deal with reality. He does not have fact one to attempt to prove that DS has broken the 10 commandments to get TS off the hook as he claims. In fact, that claim of Pickles is false witness and itself violates the 10 commandments... The article referred to here has nothing to do with and never even suggests that payments were made before charges were made. Pickle brings that up as his black tar brush has to make everything implicate or vilificate 3ABN. That is sick, people. The article and situation doesn't mention or include 3ABN, and nothing exists to include them but fevered imaginations. Step back and disassociate yourselves from this kind of thing! Pickle, himself, has questions needing answers. Start asking them!
How about dealing with current issues and facts instead of continuing to make accusations and insinuations without merit or facts to back them? This is VERY old and stale, Robert.
Such as why have you not posted about or announced the fact that you and Joy lost your appeal? Why haven't you revealed that the Appeal court Judges concluded that there was no abuse of discretion in the district court's rulings, and affirmed the district court.? Why have you not addressed the fact that after carefully reviewing both parties submissions and the record that they concluded that your allegations of judicial bias are without merit, and denied all your motions which were pending?
Such as why are you still soliciting funds for your defense when you haven't been a defendant for over 2 years?
Such as where is your accountability about the funds you have solicited? You and Joy claimed an accountability would be made. You personally claimed any excess funds would go to a ministry. Which ministry? Yours? Where was this all filed and reported and why would you reportedly condone a large contribution filtered through a Union Conference ministry so that a donor could remain anonymous and get a untitled and illegal tax write off? Yes, we have known for quite some time about this as it was apparently common knowledge at the time, and since then, insiders (yours), have admitted and testified about that as it bothered them. ( It is always good to see active consciences at work)
Inquiring minds want to know... and those entitled to demand answers, will...
Why don't you get your head out of the sand. The fact of the matter is 3ABN dismissed their lawsuit. Why? Because they had no case. Now feed your line elsewhere. How about at the site that allows grotesque porno to be published?
I would also conclude that 3ABN, will not win the lawsuit coming their way in the coming days. I could also guarantee that The Plaintiffs in this case won't dismiss it either. Is the defendants...Danny Shelton and 3ABN ready for this? I doubt it. Let the war begin...
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Such as where is your accountability about the funds you have solicited? You and Joy claimed an accountability would be made. You personally claimed any excess funds would go to a ministry. Which ministry? Yours? Where was this all filed and reported and why would you reportedly condone a large contribution filtered through a Union Conference ministry so that a donor could remain anonymous and get a untitled and illegal tax write off? Yes, we have known for quite some time about this as it was apparently common knowledge at the time, and since then, insiders (yours), have admitted and testified about that as it bothered them. ( It is always good to see active consciences at work)
Inquiring minds want to know... and those entitled to demand answers, will...
OK - I give. What exactly is a "Union Conference ministry"? I might have thought of 3ABN as a "Union Conference ministry", but depending on which court they are in front of, they claim to be non-denominational. Or, are you suggesting that a Union office of the denomination was involved in something illegal? I'm confused.
My apologies if that sounds confusing. I orginally included the name of the conference to identify the location but then decided to edit and remove tt. I simply mean a ministry within one of the Seventh-day Adventist conferences.
To further explain, I did not mention whether the individual donor does or does not work for that conference, or in a union office. It is not my intention to ID the individual or ministry here, as Pickle and Joy know who it is, and the name and location of the ministry.
Insiders have stated this individual who gave the money to Pickle and Joy did not want their name involved and wanted to claim the amount donated. So they sent the money to a ministry instead and that ministry gave them a reciept which could be used as a deduction. Then the ministry sent the donation to Pickle and Joy.
With your background, training and experience you are far more qualified then I to speak about the ethics and legality of that deal and how state attorney generals or the IRS might view that.
My only question about this was to Pickle and Joy who accepted the money.
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Such as where is your accountability about the funds you have solicited? You and Joy claimed an accountability would be made. You personally claimed any excess funds would go to a ministry. Which ministry? Yours? Where was this all filed and reported and why would you reportedly condone a large contribution filtered through a Union Conference ministry so that a donor could remain anonymous and get a untitled and illegal tax write off? Yes, we have known for quite some time about this as it was apparently common knowledge at the time, and since then, insiders (yours), have admitted and testified about that as it bothered them. ( It is always good to see active consciences at work)
Inquiring minds want to know... and those entitled to demand answers, will...
OK - I give. What exactly is a "Union Conference ministry"? I might have thought of 3ABN as a "Union Conference ministry", but depending on which court they are in front of, they claim to be non-denominational. Or, are you suggesting that a Union office of the denomination was involved in something illegal? I'm confused.
My apologies if that sounds confusing. I orginally included the name of the conference to identify the location but then decided to edit and remove tt. I simply mean a ministry within one of the Seventh-day Adventist conferences.
To further explain, I did not mention whether the individual donor does or does not work for that conference, or in a union office. It is not my intention to ID the individual or ministry here, as Pickle and Joy know who it is, and the name and location of the ministry.
Insiders have stated this individual who gave the money to Pickle and Joy did not want their name involved and wanted to claim the amount donated. So they sent the money to a ministry instead and that ministry gave them a reciept which could be used as a deduction. Then the ministry sent the donation to Pickle and Joy.
With your background, training and experience you are far more qualified then I to speak about the ethics and legality of that deal and how state attorney generals or the IRS might view that.
My only question about this was to Pickle and Joy who accepted the money.
Actually, I was recruited to assist that same ministry...by that same "insider". But after my experience at 3ABN, I opted out. However, I know exactly what you are referring to. So if you aren't out to smear both the ministry and the "insider", you might want to re-evaluate anything further you have to say on it publically.
P.S. But thanks for your post, as you have just substantiated the role that "insider" once played!!
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re
>>>Union Conference ministry
3ABN is not a Union Conference ministry, it is not a Seventh-day Adventist Ministry, it is not connected with the Adventist Church in any way.
It is an organization that is sponsored in the most part, by people who are adventists or lean that way.
It is not accountable to any conference, union, division or the GC.
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Sir Myzing,
I know nothing about the identity of any such donor, and have never accepted any legitimate or illegitimate donation from any non-profit organization that I can think of since this saga began.
So while you picked a name that condemns evil surmising, you in fact repeatedly surmise evil, even when there is no basis to do so.
If the IRS has any questions, they are certainly free to contact me and inquire.
But deal with the topic you yourself zeroed in on: Did 3ABN give donations to governmental entities during their property tax case, and did they give similar donations before and after that tax case which would show that the donations during the tax case were not unusual?
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am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, I believe that in the USA you can gift someone up to $11,000 per year without any tax involvement or reporting of income at all.
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It is something like that, Stan. You are correct.
What Sir Myzing was suggesting was that someone got an illegal tax deduction by contributing money through a non-profit. That would be a different thing than a simple gift.
It's just more of the same: Smear tactics to distract.
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Thanks Bob
Am I understanding this right, that this saga is over?
Any new ministry plans for the future?
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No, unfortunately, the saga is not over. The appeal process is not over.
As it is now, though I think we still occupy the high ground, we could still be harassed for quite some time to come. I have had no sure indication from 3ABN or Danny Shelton or their unscrupulous counselor that they will not continue to use the legal system to harass us.
But that doesn't mean I'm sitting around waiting until it's over before pursuing plans for ministry.
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and for a fact Stan ole boy, I have found that some of the most evil intelligence to continually harass somebody out of what they have in fact or property comes from the best of the high up by no doubt positions that they have by being so clever.
I know exactly those kind of people in SDA that we had to swallow because of our faith and paid with blood, sweat and life. But as the years rolled by, we watched how they were visited sooner or later with catastrophe. The Lord finally visits you.
You can fight this how ever long to cover, protect or whatever but you can't take away what is obvious to see. and it is truly the biggest mess of so called Adventists that I could imajine especially in our case too. But we live with the wheat and the tares and someday justice will be served. Maybe sooner then you think.
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Stan,
Is 3ABN listed anywhere in your Conference Directory?
It is listed in our Conference Directory.
re
>>>Union Conference ministry
3ABN is not a Union Conference ministry, it is not a Seventh-day Adventist Ministry, it is not connected with the Adventist Church in any way.
It is an organization that is sponsored in the most part, by people who are adventists or lean that way.
It is not accountable to any conference, union, division or the GC.
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The question as to where 3ABN is listed in Conference Directories is important. Some Conferences have listed 3ABN in their "Miscellaneous Organizations" section. This sections has listings for denominational organizations, such as Adventist Media Center, Andrews University and Adventist Information Minstry and others. However, it typically includes organizations such as: Eden Valley Institute, Lincoln SDA Credit Union and Filoha Meadows as well as others.
So, a listing in a Conference Directory has some significance. But, that should not be over valued and does not give credence to the idea that an organization is denominational. It may not be. It may be independent.
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Yes we do have 3ABN listed, others like Amazing Discoveries will not be.
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Yes we do have 3ABN listed, others like Amazing Discoveries will not be.
Why?
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It is totally the call of the Conference. There is no over-riding authority to tell a Conference what/how to list in their Directory.
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In the Maritime Conference Directory, they are listed under Adventist Organizations & Supportive Ministries.
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In the Maritime Conference Directory, they are listed under Adventist Organizations & Supportive Ministries.
All ASI members are supposed to be supportive ministries.
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A few years ago some church leadership said it wasn't a supportive ministry, then they seemed to go back on that.
It was very confusing.
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Again, there is no over all authority that tells a local Conference what to call a "supportive ministry."
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and....that is probably why a lot of wasted money and tithe missing too. But there is eventually "higher authority" to answer to. It really does take "planned detailed perception of angles" with great cleverness. It is the asset of great lawyers.
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Did you really think this would be the end? Did you notice the same judge that denied the judicial misconduct complaint then found herself on the Appellate panel? Oh, and did you notice she is the Chief Judge for the 1st Circuit?
Si Mizer...let you little mind grasp that and consider the options still available!!!
Ain't over til it's over!!!
But, since we are back to exchange, how do you explain the very pathetic way your fathers book launch was NOT handled well by 3ABN...after after all that cover-up support all those years...pretty disappointing, isn't it???
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Robert doesn't deal with reality. He does not have fact one to attempt to prove that DS has broken the 10 commandments to get TS off the hook as he claims. In fact, that claim of Pickles is false witness and itself violates the 10 commandments... The article referred to here has nothing to do with and never even suggests that payments were made before charges were made. Pickle brings that up as his black tar brush has to make everything implicate or vilificate 3ABN. That is sick, people. The article and situation doesn't mention or include 3ABN, and nothing exists to include them but fevered imaginations. Step back and disassociate yourselves from this kind of thing! Pickle, himself, has questions needing answers. Start asking them!
How about dealing with current issues and facts instead of continuing to make accusations and insinuations without merit or facts to back them? This is VERY old and stale, Robert.
Such as why have you not posted about or announced the fact that you and Joy lost your appeal? Why haven't you revealed that the Appeal court Judges concluded that there was no abuse of discretion in the district court's rulings, and affirmed the district court.? Why have you not addressed the fact that after carefully reviewing both parties submissions and the record that they concluded that your allegations of judicial bias are without merit, and denied all your motions which were pending?
Such as why are you still soliciting funds for your defense when you haven't been a defendant for over 2 years?
Such as where is your accountability about the funds you have solicited? You and Joy claimed an accountability would be made. You personally claimed any excess funds would go to a ministry. Which ministry? Yours? Where was this all filed and reported and why would you reportedly condone a large contribution filtered through a Union Conference ministry so that a donor could remain anonymous and get a untitled and illegal tax write off? Yes, we have known for quite some time about this as it was apparently common knowledge at the time, and since then, insiders (yours), have admitted and testified about that as it bothered them. ( It is always good to see active consciences at work)
Inquiring minds want to know... and those entitled to demand answers, will...