Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Fran on January 24, 2008, 06:27:56 PM
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So they are saying on TV. He is going to do his own crusade. Nice way to get him out oh the country. Traveling the world sounds like a good spiritual life away from 3ABN.
New free offer. Danny Shelton's book, After the Storm. Still listening.
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Is this that ShareHim stuff?
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Yes, it is the ShareHim program. We heard about it at church last Sabbath (yes, I decided that I needed to go to church!). I think it sounds like a great idea.
However, I was hoping to hear about today's board meeting but they are still talking ShareHim and it doesn't sound like there will be time for other topics. They are taking questions. I wanted to call in and ask some pointed ones, but figured I would just be ignored.
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The cool thing about ShareHim is that anybody can do it if they run through the notes a few times. We did it at our church awhile back, though, and I would say the presentations are inappropriate for the NAD.
Not surprised that they're avoiding discussion of the board meeting if there were decisions Danny didn't like.
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Did you notice the emphasis of the "partnership" between Share Him, Amazing Facts, 3ABN and Quiet Hour?
The concept of Transcending the General Conference and creating a world ministry platform is still alive and well. I am sure that ASI and the ASI Mission Board, Inc
are silent partners, but heavilly involved in putting humpty dumpty back together again.
The partnership is still heavilly reliant upon the participation of 3ABN so you can bet they will redouble efforts to clean up the IRS issues and keep this thing going.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Soul, in our church a ShareHim campaign with two lay members presenting the lectures brought more results than a $30,000 Amazing Facts campaign. Can't necessarily blame Amazing Facts; it all depends on the preparation the locals do. When the preparation is in place, I figure the ShareHim presentations work as well as anything. You can edit individual presentations to match your personality/congregation/society, whatever...
Now, in response to Gailon:
Did you notice the emphasis of the "partnership" between Share Him, Amazing Facts, 3ABN and Quiet Hour?
The concept of Transcending the General Conference and creating a world ministry platform is still alive and well. I am sure that ASI and the ASI Mission Board, Inc are silent partners, but heavilly involved in putting humpty dumpty back together again.
Ouch! Shades of Battle Creek Sanitarium!! (Oh where oh where are those BSDA smilies?!)
A "world ministry platform transcending the General Conference" in this case would mean that a power-brokering group of influential and wealthy Adventists would control the "ministry" of the world-wide church of Seventh-day Adventists.
Does that make you shudder as it does me?
I imagine the idea makes the enemy jump up and down with glee. That way he needs to influence only a very few individuals to have a world-wide effect! That's the whole problem with personality-focused ministries. (Remember that "many a bright star will go out in utter darkness.")
It looks like there's much more to the problem than Danny's moral failings. Apparently that's just the tip of the iceberg.
While satellite broadcasts are useful, I'm certain that this proxy method of evengelism is not the way the work is going to be finished. Ellen White's vision of individuals "hurrying from house to house" represents personal work done by individuals. It corresponds with the statement that "when the character of Christ is fully reflected in His people, then He will come to claim his own." (approximate quotation from somewhere in Christ's Object Lessons)
Since we're planning a church plant, we've been researching how to approach "postmoderns." They are not impressed by arguments, much less by proof texts. They are won by personal relationships. And the bottom line is that the sharing of personal Christianity -- a Christianity that has transformed my life still works! After all, it is Christ's method.
A Canadian, Marshall McLuhan (sp?) years ago pronounced a thesis that has become famous: The medium is the message. I don't believe he was a Christian, but that statement is very true for Christianity. (I wonder about those thousands "won" by evangelists who are not converted themselves, remembering that Satan is also eager to bring members into the church. Otoh, I realize that the Holy Spirit speaks directly to hearts in spite of the messenger.)
And I still think that 3ABN giving itself out to be the venue of proclaiming the Three Angels' messages borders on blasphemy. (I'm not saying they always do that, but Danny has made such statements in the past.
The partnership is still heavilly reliant upon the participation of 3ABN so you can bet they will redouble efforts to clean up the IRS issues and keep this thing going.
<sigh> What is clearly needed now is a demonstration that the Lord doesn't need 3ABN or any other big-name organization to finish His work. Too many people are depending on big-name, money-hungry ministries to do the work for them. If all of us would take the subject of our Sabbath School lessons this quarter personally, there would be a hundred conversions next year, where now there is only one. And that would be a whole lot more than all the prominent ministries combined.
God is still on His throne. He can channel more power through one truly converted soul than through 10 jaded televangelists. (Not meaning to put down all our evangelists; just making a statement for contrast.)
P.S. Please don't read this as totally putting down the media ministries. They have their place. But they do not take the place of personal relationships.
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Inga:
Your perception and analysis continues to amaze me. And yes it does cause me to shudder...so much so I consider the 2010 GC session pivotal and less than 2.5 years away. Yet plenty of time to open the eyes of many.
At the last GC Session, there were reports of coup d'etat that took many good men out of their position that were able to limit the influence and control of a handful of power hungry power brokers. The new men owed their jobs to the power brokers and the power brokers celegrated their victory. We reap the whirlwind in so many ways.
I simply know that we need another spiritual President of the Pierson caliber rather than a political animal of the Wilson caliber. The mess at Harris Pine, Davenport, AHS and 3ABN flourished and went unchallenged under Wilson, but then so did so many issues.
We must prepare for the final conflict and we need a spiritual leader to do that.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Inga,
I resonated with your post on so many levels it's difficult to narrow it down.
Soul, in our church a ShareHim campaign with two lay members presenting the lectures brought more results than a $30,000 Amazing Facts campaign. Can't necessarily blame Amazing Facts; it all depends on the preparation the locals do. When the preparation is in place, I figure the ShareHim presentations work as well as anything. You can edit individual presentations to match your personality/congregation/society, whatever...
Yup. But I bet that every person who joined had a personal relationship with a church member.
Editing saved our presentations, honestly. Thank heavens we had that option.
Now, in response to Gailon:
Did you notice the emphasis of the "partnership" between Share Him, Amazing Facts, 3ABN and Quiet Hour?
The concept of Transcending the General Conference and creating a world ministry platform is still alive and well. I am sure that ASI and the ASI Mission Board, Inc are silent partners, but heavilly involved in putting humpty dumpty back together again.
Ouch! Shades of Battle Creek Sanitarium!! (Oh where oh where are those BSDA smilies?!)
A "world ministry platform transcending the General Conference" in this case would mean that a power-brokering group of influential and wealthy Adventists would control the "ministry" of the world-wide church of Seventh-day Adventists.
Does that make you shudder as it does me?
Yes it does. I used to despise the organization until I considered the alternatives. We have a dearth of leadership at high levels in our denomination, but I prefer them a thousand times over to a few power-brokers.
While satellite broadcasts are useful, I'm certain that this proxy method of evengelism is not the way the work is going to be finished. Ellen White's vision of individuals "hurrying from house to house" represents personal work done by individuals. It corresponds with the statement that "when the character of Christ is fully reflected in His people, then He will come to claim his own." (approximate quotation from somewhere in Christ's Object Lessons)
Since we're planning a church plant, we've been researching how to approach "postmoderns." They are not impressed by arguments, much less by proof texts. They are won by personal relationships. And the bottom line is that the sharing of personal Christianity -- a Christianity that has transformed my life still works! After all, it is Christ's method.
There's a line in MH 143 about how Christ mingled with people, ministered to their needs, and won their confidence before bidding them to follow. Not only is our world (the West) postmodern, it's post-Christian ... IOW it's much harder to win their confidence than ever before, because we Christians (even Adventists) have proclaimed Truth (facts) without mingling, ministering, and winning confidence ... and so hurt a lot of people in the past.
A Canadian, Marshall McLuhan (sp?) years ago pronounced a thesis that has become famous: The medium is the message. I don't believe he was a Christian, but that statement is very true for Christianity. (I wonder about those thousands "won" by evangelists who are not converted themselves, remembering that Satan is also eager to bring members into the church. Otoh, I realize that the Holy Spirit speaks directly to hearts in spite of the messenger.)
According to Wikipedia, McLuhan was an adult convert to Catholicism. One of the people he influenced, journalist Malcolm Muggeridge ("Never forget that only a dead fish swims with the stream"), said that televangelism was like a pianist playing in a brothel, trying to work a few bars of "Abide With Me" in here and there for the edification of everyone there. Since "the medium is the message," nothing on television becomes more beautiful, mysterious, or complicated.
I think they were both right.
That said, the Holy Spirit is enough of an opportunist that He uses televangelism, despite its medium.
And I still think that 3ABN giving itself out to be the venue of proclaiming the Three Angels' messages borders on blasphemy. (I'm not saying they always do that, but Danny has made such statements in the past.
The partnership is still heavilly reliant upon the participation of 3ABN so you can bet they will redouble efforts to clean up the IRS issues and keep this thing going.
<sigh> What is clearly needed now is a demonstration that the Lord doesn't need 3ABN or any other big-name organization to finish His work. Too many people are depending on big-name, money-hungry ministries to do the work for them. If all of us would take the subject of our Sabbath School lessons this quarter personally, there would be a hundred conversions next year, where now there is only one. And that would be a whole lot more than all the prominent ministries combined.
God is still on His throne. He can channel more power through one truly converted soul than through 10 jaded televangelists. (Not meaning to put down all our evangelists; just making a statement for contrast.)
P.S. Please don't read this as totally putting down the media ministries. They have their place. But they do not take the place of personal relationships.
A good one to read on this is Venden's Why Didn't They Tell Me? I don't always agree with everything he writes, but he makes a good point that evangelism is God's work before it's our work. We get to help.
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So they are saying on TV. He is going to do his own crusade. Nice way to get him out oh the country. Traveling the world sounds like a good spiritual life away from 3ABN.
New free offer. Danny Shelton's book, After the Storm. Still listening.
How is it that Danny Shelton can be an evangelist in Folkenburg's program with all the unresolved allegations against him?
(I do remember a program several months ago where Danny agreed to do this with Brandy.)
Why are they promoting a book written by him?
It appears to me like a politically correct way to involve him in some way and give him credit for his book while probably working behind the scenes to sideline him...
An effective tactic when used in the secular world...
Adventist world missions are not the secular world, though! Danny Shelton should not be out doing missionary projects!
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How is it that Danny Shelton can be an evangelist in Folkenburg's program with all the unresolved allegations against him?
Which Folkenberg are you referring to, the father or son? They both work for/at ShareHim. If you are referring to the father well, he himself has a plethora of unsolved issues around him. In most people's opinion that I have spoken with, he should have not only lost his position as GC president, he should have been defrocked as well.
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Yes, I am aware that they are both working with the program..
I believe that it was the senior Folkenburg that I saw discussing the program with Danny Shelton, although they were both there, I think.
And yes, I remember hearing about all the problems with him.
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New free offer. Danny Shelton's book, After the Storm. Still listening.
Why are they promoting a book written by him?
It appears to me like a politically correct way to involve him in some way and give him credit for his book while probably working behind the scenes to sideline him...
An effective tactic when used in the secular world...
Adventist world missions are not the secular world, though! Danny Shelton should not be out doing missionary projects!
They have to shrink the inventories somehow...further, many will give a gift even for the free offer. But Shelly was pushing AntiChrist Agenda for a suggested donation of $7.50.
I am told they have a ton of inventory and I am sure they are working at turning it into cash.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Which Folkenberg are you referring to, the father or son? They both work for/at ShareHim. If you are referring to the father well, he himself has a plethora of unsolved issues around him. In most people's opinion that I have spoken with, he should have not only lost his position as GC president, he should have been defrocked as well.
After reviewing the evidence that was sent my way, including a report that the executive committee had access to, he is lucky to get a chance to resign, should have lost his credentials and his local church should have held a hearing to determine if he should have been disciplined and membership revoked.
I trust you know, however, that many, including ASI Mission Board, Inc Pres Harold Lance,
believe that the church dealt with Folkenburg way too harshly. And this the very close associate of Garwin McNeilus. Clearly not all on the same page.
It is clear this Share Him project is designed to rewite history and give Folkenburg an opportunity to rebuild his legacy, but again without full disclosure, apology or reformation
that should have so important for this very public event.
And how many times has this happened with crisis after crisis over the last half century?
We are about to get some idea with a book being published shortly that covers the history
from Harris Pine to the New England Sanitarium and Hospital debacle. Way over-due in my
view!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Edit done to get the intended quote to show up as a quote. - Daryl Fawcett, Administrator. :)
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Sounds like a very interesting book!
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After reviewing the evidence that was sent my way, including a report that the executive committee had access to, he is lucky to get a chance to resign, should have lost his credentials and his local church should have held a hearing to determine if he should have been disciplined and membership revoked.
I trust you know, however, that many, including ASI Mission Board, Inc Pres Harold Lance,
believe that the church dealt with Folkenburg way too harshly. And this the very close associate of Garwin McNeilus. Clearly not all on the same page.
It is clear this Share Him project is designed to rewite history and give Folkenburg an opportunity to rebuild his legacy, but again without full disclosure, apology or reformation that should have so important for this very public event.
Gailon Arthur Joy
How long can this corruption go on for? Rewriting history seems to be the aim of too many of our 'higher-ups', along with people too afraid to speak out, for fear of losing their jobs, family etc. Surely, Jesus must come soon. All the rewritten history in the world, will be of no effect then.
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Did you notice the emphasis of the "partnership" between Share Him, Amazing Facts, 3ABN and Quiet Hour?
The concept of Transcending the General Conference and creating a world ministry platform is still alive and well. I am sure that ASI and the ASI Mission Board, Inc
are silent partners, but heavilly involved in putting humpty dumpty back together again.
The partnership is still heavilly reliant upon the participation of 3ABN so you can bet they will redouble efforts to clean up the IRS issues and keep this thing going.
Gailon Arthur Joy
I was unable to see this broadcast, but the concept of of the above associated entities has been suggested in the past, as I remember, but I didn't particularly notice the addition of ShareHim and Quiet Hour.
Did the broadcast use the term "partnership" to include all four?
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Did you notice the emphasis of the "partnership" between Share Him, Amazing Facts, 3ABN and Quiet Hour?
Did the broadcast use the term "partnership" to include all four?
Yes.
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When Mark Finlay was moved from California to headquarters at Silver Spring I was told that GC had to get Mark to counteract the Folkenberg influence and domination in the evangelism area. This would also prevent Folkenberg from regaining his former control over GC. But this could be just an opinion.
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When Mark Finlay was moved from California to headquarters at Silver Spring I was told that GC had to get Mark to counteract the Folkenberg influence and domination in the evangelism area. This would also prevent Folkenberg from regaining his former control over GC. But this could be just an opinion.
It seems that graft and corruption knows no bounds. It was Folkenberg on behalf of the GC, who signed the MOI or whatever it was, with Danny about 1997 wasn't it?
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It seems that graft and corruption knows no bounds. It was Folkenberg on behalf of the GC, who signed the MOI or whatever it was, with Danny about 1997 wasn't it?
I heard Danny refer to this on a number of occasions. He would then speak of Folkenberg as an enemy who wanted to take over 3ABN. This Danny prevented, and finally got an agreement which he, Danny, agreed to. It seems like Danny and Folkenberg later became friends.
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It seems that graft and corruption knows no bounds. It was Folkenberg on behalf of the GC, who signed the MOU or whatever it was, with Danny about 1997 wasn't it?
I heard Danny refer to this on a number of occasions. He would then speak of Folkenberg as an enemy who wanted to take over 3ABN. This Danny prevented, and finally got an agreement which he, Danny, agreed to. It seems like Danny and Folkenberg later became friends.
'United we stand. Divided we fall' mentality?
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It seems that graft and corruption knows no bounds. It was Folkenberg on behalf of the GC, who signed the MOU or whatever it was, with Danny about 1997 wasn't it?
I heard Danny refer to this on a number of occasions. He would then speak of Folkenberg as an enemy who wanted to take over 3ABN. This Danny prevented, and finally got an agreement which he, Danny, agreed to. It seems like Danny and Folkenberg later became friends.
'United we stand. Divided we fall' mentality?
Back in 2003 I had a session with Folkenberg while we had breakfast together where I was offering him cooperation with 3ABN. Perhaps I did my job too well at that time?