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[Bob Pickle]

It gives the appearance of you having an axe to grind or a personal vendetta rather than a legitimate legal case.

On the other hand, Danny Shelton filed the lawsuit against us to try to force us to shut up. Should the lawsuit succeed in that regard?

After our Saviours arrest, how did he answer his accusers?

WillowRun,
Don't you have anything better to do than to hassle Bob about his own beliefs and actions? Who gave you the right to get mixed up in this whole affair? Why did you come on this forum anyway?

SDAminister

I'd like to hear her thoughts.

[Fran]

                                       
                                       
Transfers are/were:                  Restricted Donations (Bibles)                     
                                       
2007        $897,032   transfers only                $1,607,913   *                  
2006        $200,331   tithe and transfers            $258,665   *                  
2005        $192,623   tithe and transfers                           
2004          $15,677   tithe and transfers                              
2003          $27,596   tithe and transfers                              
2002            $5,500   tithe only                              
                                       
                 Sales       Printing Costs      Difference      Royalties      % of Sales      % of Sales-Costs   
                                       
2007      $2,288,506      $1,084,570      $1,203,936      $202,917      8.9%   **     16.9%   **
2006      $4,316,011      $1,680,814      $2,635,197      $508,767    11.8%            19.3%   
2005      $1,228,662        $445,558         $783,104      $116,556      9.5%            14.9%   
2004      $2,009,825        $592,153       $1,417,672       $26,178      1.3%            1.8%   
2003        $888,844         $262,297         $626,547       $16,226      1.8%            2.6%   
2002        $743,348         $216,148         $527,200       $12,438      1.7%            2.4%   
2001        $570,894                                 
2000        $721,476                                 
                                       
Please realize I am calculating Sales and only the cost of printing.  This is not the amount of income they made on those sales.   
                                    
To be accurate, you must remember the overhead/fixed costs of entity. (Building, Salaries, utilities…)                                       
                                       
* The transfers could have to do with Bibles purchased and shipped.  I am not sure yet until talking with Remnant this week.
                                       
The Bibles were not printed, but purchased and shipped from donations.  This "Transfer" could be for those purchases since they would not be included in cost of goods sold.
                                       
I can only list 2006 & 2007 because those donations were not split/separated until 2006 on Form 990.                                       
                                       
**  Bob calculated differently at http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-remnant-hides-royalties.htm.  I did not take out shipping because I am not sure what part was for Bibles.

                                       
The other reason I did not include shipping was because, if I remember correctly, the churches ordering the TCTR books, paid the postage for the shipments.
                              
It is clear to me that in 2004 began the publishing of Danny Shelton and Shelley Quinn's book.  I believe there is an original book and a condensed book.  It is clearly apparent royalties were not paid in 2004!   Why?   

                                    
Dare we wonder why!  IMO Danny did not want it included in his divorce settlement.   

                                                
It is also clear to me that somebody bought books in 2007.  Did 3ABN use restricted donations to purchase books to be given away and handled the purchase out side of Cost of Goods sold?

                                       
I have to give Remnant credit for returning a tithe on the 501 (c) 3.  3ABN does not tithe except to themselves.                                       

[WillowRun]

WillowRun,

Don't you have anything better to do than to hassle Bob about his own beliefs and actions? Who gave you the right to get mixed up in this whole affair? Why did you come on this forum anyway?

SDAminister

SDAminister....who gave you the right to take that "tone" with me?  It is neither pastor-like nor Christ like...

I am here because I am Seventh Day Adventist. I came to the church after watching George Vandemann in the 1980's.   I've known about the rottenness of a certain TV ministry since the early 1990's.  I care about this denomination and don't want to see the entire church painted with the same brush because a handful of badly managed ministries.  I believe we have positive things to promote and I would like to see more of that  at AdventTalk. We shouldn't let one rogue ministry be an obstacle  when there are so many alternatives available--HOPE TV, LLBN, SafeTV.  I love HOPE and SAFE TV.  I was there at the beginning of SAFE TV back in the early 90's.  I would like to view LLBN but their servers are always busy.  If their server load is an indication, LLBN must offer great programming as well.

For those who wonder...I took a hiatus from the SDA faith because of one self righteous controlling jerk of a pastor.  "Because I said so"  has never been an acceptable answer for me.  I believe you should always question authority...

[WillowRun]

WillowRun,

Don't you have anything better to do than to hassle Bob about his own beliefs and actions? Who gave you the right to get mixed up in this whole affair? Why did you come on this forum anyway?

SDAminister

I'd like to hear her thoughts.

Bob...I don't have my wording right...but I've not forgotten you.

[Fran]

WillowRun;

Is that a promise or a threat?   

[WillowRun]

WillowRun;

Is that a promise or a threat?   

No threat!    I just like to think carefully about what I am going to say...Drove myself nuts when I was in college.

[Fran]

Well, with that I can relate! Same here!

[Bob Pickle]

SDAminister....who gave you the right to take that "tone" with me?  It is neither pastor-like nor Christ like...

I am here because I am Seventh Day Adventist. I came to the church after watching George Vandemann in the 1980's.   I've known about the rottenness of a certain TV ministry since the early 1990's.  I care about this denomination and don't want to see the entire church painted with the same brush because a handful of badly managed ministries.  I believe we have positive things to promote and I would like to see more of that  at AdventTalk. We shouldn't let one rogue ministry be an obstacle  when there are so many alternatives available--HOPE TV, LLBN, SafeTV.  I love HOPE and SAFE TV.  I was there at the beginning of SAFE TV back in the early 90's.  I would like to view LLBN but their servers are always busy.  If their server load is an indication, LLBN must offer great programming as well.

For those who wonder...I took a hiatus from the SDA faith because of one self righteous controlling jerk of a pastor.  "Because I said so"  has never been an acceptable answer for me.  I believe you should always question authority...

Welcome back! 

[SDAminister]

WillowRun,

Don't you have anything better to do than to hassle Bob about his own beliefs and actions? Who gave you the right to get mixed up in this whole affair? Why did you come on this forum anyway?

SDAminister

SDAminister....who gave you the right to take that "tone" with me?  It is neither pastor-like nor Christ like...

Ha! You caught me! You're right. It isn't Christ like. So, why did I speak to you that way?

You aren't the first person to ask Bob why he doesn't follow Christ's example and be quiet while other make accusations about him. Such folk are many. But what I find interesting is that when I make an accusation against them, they don't follow their own preaching but get huffy and begin to defend themselves.

I intentionally spoke to you in an inflammatory manner to see how you'd respond.

I'm not going to judge whether what you said was right or wrong. I would just note that you did attempt to defend yourself.......

SDAminister

[WillowRun]

I intentionally spoke to you in an inflammatory manner to see how you'd respond.

I'm not going to judge whether what you said was right or wrong. I would just note that you did attempt to defend yourself.......

SDAminister

......speaking very softly....Congratulations SDA Minister......you've earned a spot on my grits list. 

I do not support the behavior of the Danny Clones.  I am firmly on Linda's side in this issue.  I've not noticed you making much in the way of statements. 

I question.....always.  Always. 

[SDAminister]

I intentionally spoke to you in an inflammatory manner to see how you'd respond.

I'm not going to judge whether what you said was right or wrong. I would just note that you did attempt to defend yourself.......

SDAminister

......speaking very softly....Congratulations SDA Minister......you've earned a spot on my grits list. 

I do not support the behavior of the Danny Clones.  I am firmly on Linda's side in this issue.  I've not noticed you making much in the way of statements. 

I question.....always.  Always. 

I like grits! Pat of butter, a little season salt. Mmmmmm. I think we're cut from the same bolt.

[sonshineonme]

...and butting in here, I dig this kind of healthy, in-love, CHRISTIAN exchange, as that is just how I see it. I appreciate all of you more than you know. 

I intentionally spoke to you in an inflammatory manner to see how you'd respond.

I'm not going to judge whether what you said was right or wrong. I would just note that you did attempt to defend yourself.......

SDAminister

......speaking very softly....Congratulations SDA Minister......you've earned a spot on my grits list. 

I do not support the behavior of the Danny Clones.  I am firmly on Linda's side in this issue.  I've not noticed you making much in the way of statements. 

I question.....always.  Always. 

I like grits! Pat of butter, a little season salt. Mmmmmm. I think we're cut from the same bolt.

[Bob Pickle]

Under note 14 on p. 11 it says that they bought $8,031.11 of books authored by a member of management. That's down from the nearly $3 million bought in 2006, and lower than any number since at least 2001.

Yet cost of goods given away is still reported on p. 13 as being more than $1 million.

Since Remnant reported royalty payments of I think around $200,000 on their 2007 Form 990, how can it be that 3ABN only bought $8,031.11 of books written by Danny?

Any ideas?

I've been going through court documents, and I think it can be proven that 3ABN purchased way more than $8,031.11 worth of Danny's books. Want to see how?

[Bob Pickle]

$3,750 -- 3ABN's August 21, 2007, purchase order to Remnant for 15,000 of Does God Love Sinners Forever?

$3,750 -- 3ABN's August 28, 2007, purchase order to Remnant for 15,000 of Can We Eat Anything?

Just those two purchases added together nearly make up the total reported purchases of Danny's books. And those purchase orders didn't include anything for shipping.

There is more:

$44,928 + $1,200 shipping -- 3ABN's March 6, 2007, purchase order to Remnant for 70,200 copies of Ten Commandments Twice Removed

$79,488 + $1,200 shipping -- 3ABN's March 29, 2007, purchase order to Remnant for 124,200 copies of Ten Commandments Twice Removed

$76,032 + $1,200 shipping -- 3ABN's April 5, 2007, purchase order to Remnant for 118,800 copies of Ten Commandments Twice Removed

$71,424 + $1,200 shipping -- 3ABN's April 18, 2007, purchase order to Remnant for 111,600 copies of Ten Commandments Twice Removed

Still doesn't look like enough sales to account for all of the estimated 2007 royalty payments from Remnant to Danny, but it looks more realistic than it did before.

[Fran]

Bob,

You left out the PO numbers!