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Author Topic: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg  (Read 19559 times)

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imagrandpa

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David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« on: January 31, 2008, 10:22:35 PM »

Excuse me for barging in, but in what way was Folkenberg
dealth with too harshly?

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Chrissie

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2008, 10:44:06 PM »

Excuse me for barging in, but in what way was Folkenberg
dealth with too harshly?

I don't believe he was.
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imagrandpa

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2008, 10:38:42 AM »

I think that probably David Dennis was treated too hashly.
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Artiste

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2008, 11:31:17 AM »

Who is David Dennis?
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Chrissie

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2008, 12:50:05 PM »

Who is David Dennis?

Who is David Dennis and what is his connection with Folkenberg/3abn?
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Artiste

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2008, 01:17:34 PM »

Did you notice the emphasis of the "partnership" between Share Him, Amazing Facts, 3ABN and Quiet Hour?

The concept of Transcending the General Conference and creating a world ministry platform is still alive and well. I am sure that ASI and the ASI Mission Board, Inc
are silent partners, but heavilly involved in putting humpty dumpty back together again.

The partnership is still heavilly reliant upon the participation of 3ABN so you can bet they will redouble efforts to clean up the IRS issues and keep this thing going.

Gailon Arthur Joy

Are the IRS issues a potentially serious problem still for 3ABN?
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Snoopy

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2008, 01:41:00 PM »

I guess maybe I have been under a rock for a while.  Could someone please tell me, respectfully of course, what the issue was with Elder Folkenberg and what he did that necessitated him being "dealt with"?  Is it somehow related to the issues we are seeing today with 3ABN?
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Artiste

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2008, 01:57:21 PM »

I am assuming that the dealing harshly part refers to when he was GC president and left under a cloud, which would be past history except that now he works with ShareHim, is seen frequently on 3ABN promoting his ministry of missions, and DS is suppoed to be doing a mission project for his ministry.

And Gailon mentioned 3ABN Live's promotion of the partnership of ShareHim, Amazing Facts, 3ABN, and Quiet Hour, giving his opinion that this was having the underlying support of ASI in the form of the ASI Mission Board.

He believes that ASI and these other entities would like to bypass the organized church, i.e. the General Conference, to form a world wide ministry platform.   
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Snoopy

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2008, 02:05:31 PM »

But what was the cloud he left under?  What did he do?  Or not do?
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Fran

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2008, 02:30:25 PM »

Somebody take this on.  How soon we all forget. 

Thanks for asking Snoopy.  I just don't have enough time for that one! 

It is hard sometimes to deal with those very large $ numbers and commas all in one sequence in a total column.

Does Davenport ring any bells?

He does not work with Share Him.  He is Share Him!  He was on 3ABN showing how he does it all from his house with massive storage on his computers.  A home business.


Artiste:  "He believes that ASI and these other entities would like to bypass the organized church, i.e. the General Conference, to form a world wide ministry platform."

Let me rephrase this.

Fran:  I believe that ASI and these other entities HAVE ALLREADY bypassed the organized church, i.e. the General Conference, to form a world wide ministry platform."
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Artiste

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2008, 02:51:36 PM »

Somebody take this on.  How soon we all forget. 

Thanks for asking Snoopy.  I just don't have enough time for that one! 

It is hard sometimes to deal with those very large $ numbers and commas all in one sequence in a total column.

Does Davenport ring any bells?

He does not work with Share Him.  He is Share Him!  He was on 3ABN showing how he does it all from his house with massive storage on his computers.  A home business.


Artiste:  "He believes that ASI and these other entities would like to bypass the organized church, i.e. the General Conference, to form a world wide ministry platform."

Let me rephrase this.

Fran:  I believe that ASI and these other entities HAVE ALLREADY bypassed the organized church, i.e. the General Conference, to form a world wide ministry platform."

So, again, do we need an ASI forum?

Snoopy, Elder Folkenberg resigned from his position of GC president in 1999 when it came to light that he and some associates were heavily involved in questionable financial misdealings with church money.

The reference to David Dennis in another thread is regarding the lawsuite he had against Folkenberg for being forced out of his position of auditor which he had for 18 years.  He withdrew it in 2001 for lack of funds...I really don't know very much about the whole thing.

That's all I knew about the Elder Folkenberg problem at the time since the whole thing was rather uninteresting to me--it was obvious the organized church had problems of various sorts.

Problems or not, I still don't think it is appropriate for ASI to want to control the church.
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Johann

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2008, 03:05:22 PM »

But what was the cloud he left under?  What did he do?  Or not do?

As I recall, it was discovered that Folkenberg, president of the GC, had some financial dealings with a Catholic businessman. Whatever happened, Folkenberg got in debt with this businessman, and then he worked out a deal with him to get out of debt. This deal meant that all GC (perhaps more SDA?) phone lines would run through the telephone company of this Catholic businessman. He would in return give SDA a good discount on phone calls - and write off Folkenberg's debt to him.

Since this seemed quite profitable to the SDA church, Folkenberg apparently signed this contract as he was certain the GC board would accept it - which they didn't. Too many board members voted against it and felt Folkenberg had not acted as an honest GC president. So he had to leave his job and Jan Paulsen was made the acting GC president.

I understand the Carolina Conference had mercy on Folkenberg and extended his ministerial license. Since then he has used his job there to promote his Global Evangelism project, using his previous good contacts to collect private funds for this project. So it may seem like Folkenberg is running an Independent Ministry using the local conference as an umbrella making it look like there is a connection to the official SDA Church.

To all appearances Folkenberg has used this platform together with his great ability of collecting funds from private businessmen to regain popularity and thereby power within the church.

As I stated in a previous post, it seemed like the present GC administration felt that he was regaining too much power for comfort. Some feared he was using this power to regain his control over the GC and possibly become president again.

In order to curb Folkenberg's growing power through his evangelism program the GC administration called Mark Finlay from California to be a new vice president for evangelism, so that he could divert the interest in evangelism away from Folkenberg.

Mark F was using 3ABN, and he once promised Danny Shelton he would be the main speaker at every 3ABN Camp Meeting. I think the last time he spoke at a 3ABN Camp Meeting was in 2004. This was when Linda was discarded, and it seems like Danny was certain Mark F would endorse his liquidation on his wife. On the contrary, I think Mark F. discovered that Linda was innocent of Danny's accusations. So, as far as I know, he has never since then been back as the main speaker at any 3ABN Camp Meeting.

About this time Mark F. becomes the chairman of the board of HOPE TV - the competitor of 3ABN, and the official Church TV channel. And MF has always been with the SDA Church.

While Folkenberg was GC president he was trying to get 3ABN under the wings of the Church, but did not succeed. After he was ousted as the GC president he suddenly becomes almost a bedfellow of Danny Shelton since both of them are running Independent Ministries, and both are, to possibly quite some extent, gaining their financial backing from the same source, which might be trying with financial means to create an alternative mission society, independent of the official Seventh-day Adventist Church, as has been indicated on this forum.

This is the general picture as I have observed it. There may be details I have seen in subdued or colored light, so I'd be grateful for any valuable corrections you may have access to.

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Artiste

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2008, 03:24:32 PM »

But what was the cloud he left under?  What did he do?  Or not do?

As I recall, it was discovered that Folkenberg, president of the GC, had some financial dealings with a Catholic businessman. Whatever happened, Folkenberg got in debt with this businessman, and then he worked out a deal with him to get out of debt. This deal meant that all GC (perhaps more SDA?) phone lines would run through the telephone company of this Catholic businessman. He would in return give SDA a good discount on phone calls - and write off Folkenberg's debt to him.

Since this seemed quite profitable to the SDA church, Folkenberg apparently signed this contract as he was certain the GC board would accept it - which they didn't. Too many board members voted against it and felt Folkenberg had not acted as an honest GC president. So he had to leave his job and Jan Paulsen was made the acting GC president.

I understand the Carolina Conference had mercy on Folkenberg and extended his ministerial license. Since then he has used his job there to promote his Global Evangelism project, using his previous good contacts to collect private funds for this project. So it may seem like Folkenberg is running an Independent Ministry using the local conference as an umbrella making it look like there is a connection to the official SDA Church.

To all appearances Folkenberg has used this platform together with his great ability of collecting funds from private businessmen to regain popularity and thereby power within the church.

As I stated in a previous post, it seemed like the present GC administration felt that he was regaining too much power for comfort. Some feared he was using this power to regain his control over the GC and possibly become president again.

In order to curb Folkenberg's growing power through his evangelism program the GC administration called Mark Finlay from California to be a new vice president for evangelism, so that he could divert the interest in evangelism away from Folkenberg.

Mark F was using 3ABN, and he once promised Danny Shelton he would be the main speaker at every 3ABN Camp Meeting. I think the last time he spoke at a 3ABN Camp Meeting was in 2004. This was when Linda was discarded, and it seems like Danny was certain Mark F would endorse his liquidation on his wife. On the contrary, I think Mark F. discovered that Linda was innocent of Danny's accusations. So, as far as I know, he has never since then been back as the main speaker at any 3ABN Camp Meeting.

About this time Mark F. becomes the chairman of the board of HOPE TV - the competitor of 3ABN, and the official Church TV channel. And MF has always been with the SDA Church.

While Folkenberg was GC president he was trying to get 3ABN under the wings of the Church, but did not succeed. After he was ousted as the GC president he suddenly becomes almost a bedfellow of Danny Shelton since both of them are running Independent Ministries, and both are, to possibly quite some extent, gaining their financial backing from the same source, which might be trying with financial means to create an alternative mission society, independent of the official Seventh-day Adventist Church, as has been indicated on this forum.

This is the general picture as I have observed it. There may be details I have seen in subdued or colored light, so I'd be grateful for any valuable corrections you may have access to.



Johann, thanks for explanations from someone who actually knows something about it!

And again the mention of an alternate mission entity, independent of the church.
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inga

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2008, 09:19:18 PM »

I guess maybe I have been under a rock for a while.  Could someone please tell me, respectfully of course, what the issue was with Elder Folkenberg and what he did that necessitated him being "dealt with"?  Is it somehow related to the issues we are seeing today with 3ABN?
[Edited and snipped content. Please refer to Johann's post above because he has actual information from Bob's time at the GC. Somehow I didn't see that before posting. I was not aware of the long-distance deal, only the kind of stuff that's documented in the AToday article. I know how things can be "spun," and I prefer to put the best, rather than the worst interpretation on the allegations.]

Johann's account rings true to the kind of thing I can imagine Bob Folkenberg doing, based upon my impression of him. [Edited: A question in connection with the allegations on AToday would be this: Does Bob Folkenberg lead a lavish lifestyle as the result of his "self-dealing." Or is it possible that he attempted to make money for the work of the church?]

Bob Folkenberg has an entrepreneurial bent. He's a go-getter. And he applies these qualities to the work of the church. When he was president of the Inter-American Division, that division started growing phenomenally, even though the word had been that it was a "difficult" place because of Roman Catholic control.

When Bob Folkenberg became GC president, he took that same spirit to that office. He broke new ground and accomplished more in his short stint than others did in a much longer stint. He's not a diplomat but will call things as he sees them. He will step on toes if those toes are in the way of what he sees needs to be done. He is no respecter of persons and will listen to a lay person as easily as to a division secretary if he sees that lay person as a thinking and committed individual.

Clearly Bob Folkenberg overstepped his authority in a deal that he thought would greatly profit the church as well as himself.

Because this resulted in a cloud hanging over his head, and he resigned, rather than having that cloud attached to the highest officer of the Adventist church.

I have met the man on several occasions and have observed him in action in various public presentations, including ShareHim training. He has a passion for evangelism, and he is a man of action. Such men tend to make enemies even when they don't do anything wrong. But such men often make more mistakes than their more careful (think "do-little") compatriots. They make more mistakes because they attempt more, and they get more done -- as Bob did during his short time in office.

I believe Bob Folkenberg to be an honest man, and what has bothered me is that the innuendos about him have left the impression that he was involved with shady dealings for his own benefit. [Edited: By what Johann shares, Bob's deal while in office was questionable at best. Does that mean that he is basically dishonest? Or is it a question of bad judgment and overstepping authority?]

I only know Bob Folkenberg from a few personal brushes with him, but I do know people who think highly of him. I don't know Gailon Joy at all, except from public postings about him and by him. But I sense that Gailon and Bob have a great deal in common in their personalities and characters.

I kind of stepped out on a limb with this post because I have not seen the evidence Gailon says he has seen. However, I am very much interested in his thoughts on the matter -- whether my interpretation of what happened is a possible one, rather than the more negative one that implies that Bob Folkenberg is a man not to be trusted. (I recall that some like to paint Gailon that way too, and I believe they are wrong as well.)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2008, 12:04:59 PM by inga »
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Johann

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Re: David Dennis and Robert Folkenberg
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2008, 09:47:37 PM »

I also met Bob Folkenberg on a few occasions with very positive impressions. I discovered personally that when he encountered a problem he dealt with it immediately, or had one of his wealthy friends take care of it. What I wrote above was based on information that was gained from headquarters at the time to explain why Bob Folkenberg had to to resign.
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