Advent Talk
SDA Media & News => SDA News Clips => Topic started by: Gailon Arthur Joy on February 10, 2008, 04:25:22 PM
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Worcester Telegram & Gazette broke the following story as a front-page headline on Sabbath, February 9, 2008:
Saturday, February 9, 2008
Five name college in sex abuse suit
Renowned ex-choral director at AU is accused
By Karen Nugent TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
LANCASTER— A lawsuit has been filed in Worcester Superior Court against Atlantic Union College and its well-known former choral director and music professor, Francisco de Araujo, for allegedly sexually abusing four students and a consultant in 2005 and 2006.
The complaint, filed Jan. 30 by Boston lawyer Nance Lyons, also alleges that college officials not only ignored the men’s accusations but had them expelled and spread rumors and slander that made it difficult for them to get jobs.
The complaint also alleges that college employees and contractors who complained about the sexual abuse on behalf of the students were fired and that college officials were well aware of Mr. Araujo’s alleged previous history of predatory sexual behavior with students.
“Doe” is used for the last name for the five plaintiffs in the lawsuit, Ms. Lyons said yesterday.
Besides Mr. Araujo, who retired last summer, and the college, the complaint names former college president George P. Babcock and Donald G. King, president of the Lancaster-based Atlantic Union Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, which oversees the Adventist college. Mr. King is chairman of the college’s board of trustees.
The complaint requests a jury trial for several counts against Mr. Araujo of sexual assault and battery, outrage, negligent infliction of emotional distress, negligence, violation of civil rights, invasion of privacy and false imprisonment.
Phone messages left at Mr. Araujo’s home Thursday night and yesterday were not returned.
In a prepared statement Thursday, college President Norman L. Wendth said lawyers for the college are working on responses to the complaint.
He warned against speculation, and requested sensitivity for “the hurts received, and respect for the reputations of everyone involved.”
Mr. Wendth also encouraged students and staff to come forward with information about misconduct.
“Not for just these charges, but by anyone, at any time — please share that information with someone on campus you can trust, so that we can discuss and resolve these concerns. Christians are supposed to be committed to both justice and forgiveness, and we need to remember that,” he said in a letter to AUC faculty and staff.
Mr. Babcock, who retired in May 2007, faces several counts of interference with contract and advantageous relationships, and libel and slander. He, Mr. King and the college also face one count of negligent hiring, retention and supervision.
The complaint says college officials were first told of the alleged abuse in September 2006 by a choir member and fundraising consultant who in the lawsuit is called Julio Doe, now living in Boston.
“Mr. Babcock undertook a sham investigation that was not in accordance with college procedures,” Ms. Lyons said in the 32-page complaint.
Reached at his home in Tennessee yesterday, Mr. Babcock said it would be inappropriate for him to comment beyond the statement by the college.
According to the complaint, Mr. Araujo, who was hired by AUC in 1999 and is a college alumnus, in April 2006 approached Julio Doe, who was living on campus, and pressed Julio’s body against his. In July 2006, Mr. Araujo came into Julio Doe’s room and began to touch him inappropriately, the complaint states.
Julio Doe’s contract with AUC was terminated by Mr. Babcock around September 2006, after he reported Mr. Araujo’s behavior with him and four students.
The lawsuit says Douglas Doe, a foreign student from the Dominican Republic now living in Leominster, was invited to live with Mr. Araujo in 2005, after Mr. Araujo got a scholarship for him to attend AUC. While living with Mr. Araujo, the complaint says, Douglas Doe was sexually abused.
The complaint says Douglas Doe did not report the alleged sexual misconduct because he feared losing his scholarship, which was later cut.
Jonathan Doe, an AUC student from Leominster who auditioned for the college choir, said that after the audition, Mr. Araujo hugged him and rubbed him while telling him how proud he was of him. The complaint says that while similar incidents occurred while Jonathan Doe was a student, he did not report the alleged abuse because he feared repercussions.
A piano student of Mr. Araujo who took lessons at the Thayer Conservatory on the college campus is called Octavio Doe in the complaint.
In 2005, after a Christmas concert, Mr. Araujo allegedly hugged Octavio Doe and touched him inappropriately, the complaint states.
Octavio Doe allegedly told Julio Doe about Mr. Araujo’s advances around October 2006, and Julio Doe reported it to Mr. Babcock and Mr. King, the complaint states.
The complaint says Mr. Araujo recruited Marcos Doe, who is from Mexico, with a promise of a full scholarship, housing and spending money, and said he would get the college to create a special class in music conducting just for him.
When Marcos Doe arrived at AUC, he discovered there was no place for him to live, and he was forced to sleep in a truck for three months. Mr. Araujo allegedly tried to abuse him, but when Marcos Doe refused his advances, his scholarship was suddenly denied and he subsequently lost his visa and had to leave the college and return to Mexico.
Ms. Lyons said yesterday the students were not willing participants in Mr. Araujo’s sexual actions, and resisted him.
“What strikes me in these cases of religious institutions is the absolute, incredible disregard for these kinds of allegations on the part of a professor versus the student,” she said.
Before he came to AUC, Mr. Araujo was the music director for more than 25 years at the Takoma Park, Md., Seventh-day Adventist Church.
During his church tenure, Mr. Araujo led choral ensembles all over the world.
In 1975, in Poland, he was invited to give a state performance for visiting U.S. President Gerald R. Ford. In 1979, he was a guest of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat, and in 1981, he presented the Jerusalem Passion Play and Nativity Play in Bethlehem. In 1994, with Israeli Occupation Forces surrounding the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, Mr. Araujo led a performance of Handel’s “Messiah” that was videotaped and marketed as a peace effort among Christians, Jews and Muslims in the Middle East.
At AUC, Mr. Araujo, called “maestro” at the college — and “Papa” by his students, according to a 2006 interview with him — created three choral groups, one of which, Pro Arts International, has performed at Carnegie Hall in New York City.
Ms. Lyons said the lawsuit seeks money for emotional and psychological conditions resulting from the alleged abuse, financial losses for medical care and loss of earning capacity, and loss of enjoyment of life.
The complaint alleges that Mr. Babcock engaged in libel and slander by accusing Julio Doe of being untrustworthy and inadequate in his fundraising abilities. It says he has lost contracts because of the alleged slander.
The complaint states Mr. Babcock wrote a negative letter about Julio Doe to the owner of Golden Cross, a large medical insurance company in South America where Julio Doe sought employment.
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Worcester Telegram & Gazette broke the following story as a front-page headline on Sabbath, February 9, 2008:
Saturday, February 9, 2008
Five name college in sex abuse suit
Renowned ex-choral director at AU is accused
By Karen Nugent TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
LANCASTER— A lawsuit has been filed in Worcester Superior Court against Atlantic Union College and its well-known former choral director and music professor, Francisco de Araujo, for allegedly sexually abusing four students and a consultant in 2005 and 2006.
The complaint, filed Jan. 30 by Boston lawyer Nance Lyons, also alleges that college officials not only ignored the men’s accusations but had them expelled and spread rumors and slander that made it difficult for them to get jobs.
The complaint also alleges that college employees and contractors who complained about the sexual abuse on behalf of the students were fired and that college officials were well aware of Mr. Araujo’s alleged previous history of predatory sexual behavior with students.
“Doe” is used for the last name for the five plaintiffs in the lawsuit, Ms. Lyons said yesterday.
Besides Mr. Araujo, who retired last summer, and the college, the complaint names former college president George P. Babcock and Donald G. King, president of the Lancaster-based Atlantic Union Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, which oversees the Adventist college. Mr. King is chairman of the college’s board of trustees.
The complaint requests a jury trial for several counts against Mr. Araujo of sexual assault and battery, outrage, negligent infliction of emotional distress, negligence, violation of civil rights, invasion of privacy and false imprisonment.
Phone messages left at Mr. Araujo’s home Thursday night and yesterday were not returned.
In a prepared statement Thursday, college President Norman L. Wendth said lawyers for the college are working on responses to the complaint.
He warned against speculation, and requested sensitivity for “the hurts received, and respect for the reputations of everyone involved.”
Mr. Wendth also encouraged students and staff to come forward with information about misconduct.
“Not for just these charges, but by anyone, at any time — please share that information with someone on campus you can trust, so that we can discuss and resolve these concerns. Christians are supposed to be committed to both justice and forgiveness, and we need to remember that,” he said in a letter to AUC faculty and staff.
Mr. Babcock, who retired in May 2007, faces several counts of interference with contract and advantageous relationships, and libel and slander. He, Mr. King and the college also face one count of negligent hiring, retention and supervision.
The complaint says college officials were first told of the alleged abuse in September 2006 by a choir member and fundraising consultant who in the lawsuit is called Julio Doe, now living in Boston.
“Mr. Babcock undertook a sham investigation that was not in accordance with college procedures,” Ms. Lyons said in the 32-page complaint.
Reached at his home in Tennessee yesterday, Mr. Babcock said it would be inappropriate for him to comment beyond the statement by the college.
According to the complaint, Mr. Araujo, who was hired by AUC in 1999 and is a college alumnus, in April 2006 approached Julio Doe, who was living on campus, and pressed Julio’s body against his. In July 2006, Mr. Araujo came into Julio Doe’s room and began to touch him inappropriately, the complaint states.
Julio Doe’s contract with AUC was terminated by Mr. Babcock around September 2006, after he reported Mr. Araujo’s behavior with him and four students.
The lawsuit says Douglas Doe, a foreign student from the Dominican Republic now living in Leominster, was invited to live with Mr. Araujo in 2005, after Mr. Araujo got a scholarship for him to attend AUC. While living with Mr. Araujo, the complaint says, Douglas Doe was sexually abused.
The complaint says Douglas Doe did not report the alleged sexual misconduct because he feared losing his scholarship, which was later cut.
Jonathan Doe, an AUC student from Leominster who auditioned for the college choir, said that after the audition, Mr. Araujo hugged him and rubbed him while telling him how proud he was of him. The complaint says that while similar incidents occurred while Jonathan Doe was a student, he did not report the alleged abuse because he feared repercussions.
A piano student of Mr. Araujo who took lessons at the Thayer Conservatory on the college campus is called Octavio Doe in the complaint.
In 2005, after a Christmas concert, Mr. Araujo allegedly hugged Octavio Doe and touched him inappropriately, the complaint states.
Octavio Doe allegedly told Julio Doe about Mr. Araujo’s advances around October 2006, and Julio Doe reported it to Mr. Babcock and Mr. King, the complaint states.
The complaint says Mr. Araujo recruited Marcos Doe, who is from Mexico, with a promise of a full scholarship, housing and spending money, and said he would get the college to create a special class in music conducting just for him.
When Marcos Doe arrived at AUC, he discovered there was no place for him to live, and he was forced to sleep in a truck for three months. Mr. Araujo allegedly tried to abuse him, but when Marcos Doe refused his advances, his scholarship was suddenly denied and he subsequently lost his visa and had to leave the college and return to Mexico.
Ms. Lyons said yesterday the students were not willing participants in Mr. Araujo’s sexual actions, and resisted him.
“What strikes me in these cases of religious institutions is the absolute, incredible disregard for these kinds of allegations on the part of a professor versus the student,” she said.
Before he came to AUC, Mr. Araujo was the music director for more than 25 years at the Takoma Park, Md., Seventh-day Adventist Church.
During his church tenure, Mr. Araujo led choral ensembles all over the world.
In 1975, in Poland, he was invited to give a state performance for visiting U.S. President Gerald R. Ford. In 1979, he was a guest of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat, and in 1981, he presented the Jerusalem Passion Play and Nativity Play in Bethlehem. In 1994, with Israeli Occupation Forces surrounding the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, Mr. Araujo led a performance of Handel’s “Messiah” that was videotaped and marketed as a peace effort among Christians, Jews and Muslims in the Middle East.
At AUC, Mr. Araujo, called “maestro” at the college — and “Papa” by his students, according to a 2006 interview with him — created three choral groups, one of which, Pro Arts International, has performed at Carnegie Hall in New York City.
Ms. Lyons said the lawsuit seeks money for emotional and psychological conditions resulting from the alleged abuse, financial losses for medical care and loss of earning capacity, and loss of enjoyment of life.
The complaint alleges that Mr. Babcock engaged in libel and slander by accusing Julio Doe of being untrustworthy and inadequate in his fundraising abilities. It says he has lost contracts because of the alleged slander.
The complaint states Mr. Babcock wrote a negative letter about Julio Doe to the owner of Golden Cross, a large medical insurance company in South America where Julio Doe sought employment.
Horrendous as these claims are, one would doubt that these were the ONLY people who have been abused by Araujo. Hopefully, now this has come to light, other victims will come forward also.
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If the information in this article is reliably correct, this is a sad testimony to the blindness of the leadership at AUC and ultimately also in our church.
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If the information in this article is reliably correct, this is a sad testimony to the blindness of the leadership at AUC and ultimately also in our church.
Daryl,
The problem is not blindness,nor is it a "mistake". Most members that sit in the pew don't realize this is the way many victims are deliberately treated. :'(
Most cases like this,only the names and location need be changed and the story is the same, chapter and verse.
The victims will be the ones that are to forgive and forget. The fact that they are now taking legal action will be proof to many that they have not.
The leadership of this denomination simply cannot get it thru their heads or don't care enough to listen and help the victims. If they were to do so, most lawsuits would never be filed. Once they are filed then the focus usually shifts from the act of the guilty or accused to the legal actions of the victims. EW and all scripture is brought out to hammer them in how wrong they are
Bonnie
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Seems like I first saw Mr. Araujo direct a choir from Japan about 40 or 50 years ago. I think he was teaching at our college in Japan at that time. Must admit I never cared much for his physical acrobatics while directing, but that could have impressed others. He got the choirs he directed to sing fairly well.
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Will this sad story cause church/conference leaders to think any more seriously about the problems of 3ABN?
Or do they just hope that statutes of limitations are past or that no one will come forward?
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Will this sad story cause church/conference leaders to think any more seriously about the problems of 3ABN?
Or do they just hope that statutes of limitations are past or that no one will come forward?
As this is not an isolated incidence, especially in the past decade, why would this be the one to cause leaders to re-evaluate and do things differently?
More and more are coming forward, realizing they were not the only one abused by their abuser. In the past connection to other victims was difficult. With the flood of information on the internet more and more will come forward. When will they listen?? I suspect not till the big one it's. The one with the ability to bankrupt a conference, school, church.
There has been some progress, but it seems the steps taken are only those they are forced to take.
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Will this sad story cause church/conference leaders to think any more seriously about the problems of 3ABN?
Or do they just hope that statutes of limitations are past or that no one will come forward?
Unfortunately, this appears to be nearer the truth. I become increasingly frustrated as I learn of 'cover-ups' and people hoping and 'emotionally blackmailing' ("Don't destroy your family/church. You'll be to blame if this gets out") victims, to preserve their own so-called good names. What will it take to make our leaders take notice to the full extent that should be mandatory reporting?
Seems that if 3abn can get away with it, other churches and departments can hope they'll get away with it too.
Just my $0.02 worth.
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Ozzie, that's one reason we're trying to prevent 3ABN from "getting away from it".
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Ozzie, that's one reason we're trying to prevent 3ABN from "getting away from it".
This seems a little backwards. Why choose 3ABN as the catalyst for prevention of a problem that has gone on for decades?
Had these type of issues been dealt with as they should have been and with the knowledge so many times of acts of abuse prior to it coming out publically, maybe 3 ABN would not have gotten so far with the alleged abuses.
I have asked before and never received an answer. Had this been any other than 3ABN,an independent ministry, would there have been such a pursuit to get at the answers?
Had this been a high profile conference president or higher would the same determination be shown?
While I believe LS deserves support and many issues need to be explained concerning suspected illegal activities within 3ABN, what makes the harm done to LS and others of any more importance to someone less known?
Once again one of our institutions are dealing with sexual abuse allegations. Hardly the first and hardly the last. Seems to have been known prior to LS difficulties and the allegations against DS. Where was the outcry? How many now will come to the defense of abuse victims at the hands of our leaders and educators?
Regardless of whether or not this has been proven yet, most know that these things happen quite routinely.
Has there ever been an outcry from those sitting in the pews that this will stop?? Has there been any demand from the membership to take such an active part in stopping this as has been with 3ABN??
It will be quite surprising if the victims do not find themselves the receipient of the anger instead of the institution and those involved in any cover up and the party accused himself. The victims usually are the ones to feel the backlash, the shunning, the further shredding of what is left of their lives. If they had only remained quiet and followed the admonition to forgive, the denomination would not have to deal with such an unpleasent business.
How many heavily involved with bringing to light actions of 3ABN and DS and what is seen as abuse of LS, will be as actively involved in demanding from Atlantic Union and all our institutions the same. Bringing to light and demanding change. Demanding an accounting and aid and help for the victims?
The suit will probably go forward and blurbs will hit the media attention for a bit, then settlement, a denial that settlement means anything, and in a very short time forgotton.
I seriously doubt the outcome of 3ABN, whatever it is, will have any impact on the unknown member that is abused, on the ones that are involved in covering it up.
Not enough demand or interest in an accounting. Most seem to think it could not happen to one of theirs and is not a big reason for concern.
Where is the outcry from all parents that have young people on the campus??
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Ozzie, that's one reason we're trying to prevent 3ABN from "getting away from it".
Has there ever been an outcry from those sitting in the pews that this will stop?? Has there been any demand from the membership to take such an active part in stopping this as has been with 3ABN??
It will be quite surprising if the victims do not find themselves the recipient of the anger instead of the institution and those involved in any cover up and the party accused himself. The victims usually are the ones to feel the backlash, the shunning, the further shredding of what is left of their lives. If they had only remained quiet and followed the admonition to forgive, the denomination would not have to deal with such an unpleasent business.
How many heavily involved with bringing to light actions of 3ABN and DS and what is seen as abuse of LS, will be as actively involved in demanding from Atlantic Union and all our institutions the same. Bringing to light and demanding change. Demanding an accounting and aid and help for the victims?
The suit will probably go forward and blurbs will hit the media attention for a bit, then settlement, a denial that settlement means anything, and in a very short time forgotton.
I seriously doubt the outcome of 3ABN, whatever it is, will have any impact on the unknown member that is abused, on the ones that are involved in covering it up.
Not enough demand or interest in an accounting. Most seem to think it could not happen to one of theirs and is not a big reason for concern.
Where is the outcry from all parents that have young people on the campus??
Bonnie, this is so true. I feel at times like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall, when I hear a Pastor deny that it could be happening in his congregation and says "You can't legislate against something that goes on behind closed doors". DENIAL seems to be where many church leaders and members 'are at' still.
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Bonnie, this is so true. I feel at times like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall, when I hear a Pastor deny that it could be happening in his congregation and says "You can't legislate against something that goes on behind closed doors". DENIAL seems to be where many church leaders and members 'are at' still.
Denial is one thing. No one wants to believe a trusted pastor/leader/family member could be guilty of such an act. Many will continue to deny against overwhelming proof.
I know it angers some people when I say this and often gets the charge of bitterness leveled against me, but I believe that very denial by the members is what the leadership counts on. They count on the members doing much of the dirty work of anger direction,shunning and charges of bitterness and unforgivness to subdue many that would come forward. It can be quite effective as they well know
They are not in denial. They know and have known for years. Whether it is from personal experience or from getting to know and dealing with so many that have gone the same route our family did. The story is almost always the same.
Prior knowledge and complaints have simply been moved to new location. Not addressing the issues, not offering help to those badly damaged,just cover-up and the ultimate lie when it finally can't be covered up any longer.
"WE DIDN"T KNOW" When followed by a lawsuit that settles out of court the lie continues, "Then it is "this is not an admission of guilt but allows us to move on".
During the last year of our litigation a legal seminar of some type was held in Florida. All those SDA's involved in the legal profession were present. As was a family member of ours. Our situation was brought up and concern was expressed over what it may mean. One well known legal representative of the GC responded to a question by this family member. Being told the Odenthal case was no longer of grave concern as it appeared it was going to be settled out of court. Strange that our family did not know that and had not discussed settlement, that came some time later.
A caring compassionate denomination still put our family thru many hours of rigorous depositions knowing they were willing to settle. A gift we will long remember
Of concern to the denomination was a case in California and what it could mean financially. How odd in a group of SDA's and those suppossedly concerned for the salvation of others, the major angst was not over how to stop this. It was who was going to do the most damage.This is where the concern lies. Who has the ability to inflict the most damage to the denomination, not how do we prevent the damage in the first place and when it does occur,how best can we help.
Whether ours or a situation involving other victims,it is almost universal to find not suspicion but proof that it has been known and noted for years . Ours was a thirty year history, that we have documented. This isn't denial. Others of varying time frames are common. Documented complaints and allegations. Can be several against same party,details never varying and yet they keep moving them onto other unsuspecting members. Sometimes moving them up the ladder instead of out. Not denial, but a complete and deliberate disregard for the safety of the vulnerable people the predator grooms and abuses.
While denial may be true for some members, it is not denial by those that could put a stop to this when they first become aware. I have another name for it, but again, that makes people angry in my direction instead of directing the anger where it belongs
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Ozzie, that's one reason we're trying to prevent 3ABN from "getting away from it".
I seriously doubt the outcome of 3ABN, whatever it is, will have any impact on the unknown member that is abused, on the ones that are involved in covering it up.
Not enough demand or interest in an accounting. Most seem to think it could not happen to one of theirs and is not a big reason for concern.
Where is the outcry from all parents that have young people on the campus??
And why don't we agree right here and right now to be the sounding board for any complainant that wishes to come forward and complain...each case requires appropriate investigation and appropriate ecclesiastical process, but must never be allowed to go unanswered.
I can attest to the fact that we have repeatedly referred victims who came to Save3ABN.com with complaints to persons that could be helpful and or to encourage them to publish their special stories for all to read and understand and build sensitivity to the issue within the church. In fact a small book is pending publication as a result of this effort.
I challenge you to develop an effort to coordinate the production of a book or other document regarding the Odenthall Case. Frankly, I only recently became aware of it
and something of this magnitude rarely gets as far as it did without a much wider circulation.
We have repeatedly found that the Golden Rule applies: Institutions adhere to the principal
that he who has the Gold Rules; and the victims silence is golden for the perpetrator. If victims would aggressively pursue their claims, the perpetrator must give up the gold!!! Odenthall got some Gold, but my guess is that it would have been a lot faster and most likely a lot more if it had the momentum of public disclosure.
If we adhered to the Matthew 18 Principals, and their was no reformation in part one and two,
part three should have been an open and transparent process of full disclosure, due process
and appropriate discipline.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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1.And why don't we agree right here and right now to be the sounding board for any complainant that wishes to come forward and complain...each case requires appropriate investigation and appropriate ecclesiastical process, but must never be allowed to go unanswered.
Been there, done that. For five years. The org.SNT was frequently harrassed and the time constarints for me got to be something I could no longer handle efficiently alone.
2.I can attest to the fact that we have repeatedly referred victims who came to Save3ABN.com with complaints to persons that could be helpful and or to encourage them to publish their special stories for all to read and understand and build sensitivity to the issue within the church. In fact a small book is pending publication as a result of this effort.
That is something that does need to be done. Many need at least a bit of direction as they feel they are the only ones often times.
I will be looking forward to the book
3.I challenge you to develop an effort to coordinate the production of a book or other document regarding the Odenthall Case. Frankly, I only recently became aware of it
and something of this magnitude rarely gets as far as it did without a much wider circulation.
Well, my gut reaction is to say the SDA denomination has taken enough from our family,without walking in front of that particular truck again.
If there were something I could do I would give what help I could. Without those taking an active interest as is being done with 3ABN,not going to happen. And I do not think the one member,the members family count enough to have that kind of support.
The events that took place should have created a wave of anger and a demand for change in MN, starting at the conference office. Not because it was my family, but because it could have been theirs. Because the lack of leadership and the complete lack of caring for the members of the MN congregations was obvious.
Instead, that is not where the anger was directed.They are not the ones that fought this for almost 6 years alone. Not only the legal battle,but those sitting in the pews as well. We did not even have to deal with he said/she said. It could not be denied, yet the responsibility somehow became ours, primarily my sons.
4.We have repeatedly found that the Golden Rule applies: Institutions adhere to the principal
that he who has the Gold Rules; and the victims silence is golden for the perpetrator. If victims would aggressively pursue their claims, the perpetrator must give up the gold!!! Odenthall got some Gold, but my guess is that it would have been a lot faster and most likely a lot more if it had the momentum of public disclosure.
There was as much public disclousure as we personally could do. The media,talk radio,tv news, did pick up on it on it's own. However that did not dent the reaction of the membership, made little difference to the denomination.
As much as possible was disclosed on any forum where SDA's congregate, there was anger, but not towards what had happened,it was because I made it public.
I am not minimizing what you are dealing with in your current lawsuit,but many are so beat down that a lawsuit is more than they can cope with. Ours was aggressive and took everything this family had to give for six years. I am not sure how much more I feel I want to give them.
5.If we adhered to the Matthew 18 Principals, and their was no reformation in part one and two,
part three should have been an open and transparent process of full disclosure, due process
and appropriate discipline.
The part that is adhered to is "Forgive and forget" The victim forgets they were victimized and the denomination will forgive them for being careless enough to become a victim.
Turn the other cheek", "Be willing to be defrauded"
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What kind of a denomination do we belong to? I am not questioning SDA doctrine, but an organization.
One where aggressive lawsuits are recommended and I agree is needed to get their attention and make any kind of change. Lawsuits only teach them they may suffer consequences for not doing the right thing.
It doesn't change the heart.
I don't care that this is something that plagues all denominations, we claim to be different. Nor do the typical pat answers of it is an evil world cut it.
Secular businesses live in the same evil world and they seem to see the importance of stopping abusive behavior. We hide behind the seperation of church and state, condemn those that would dare bring dishonor on the church by speaking out.
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Bonnie, I cannot begin to imagine what your family had to go through!
I applaud you and your family for having the determination not to let things rest without exposing the perpretators.
There are other areas in which our church is often less kind/just than the world --"not rehiring" employees, for instance. In my own conference I know of former Adventist teachers who built a distinguished career after not being "rehired" in an Adventist institution. In my own case, I discovered the reason the conference education secretary asked impossible things of me (hired 3 weeks before the beginning of the school year) was that the job had already been promised to someone else (related to conference staff) for the following year. So he had to find reasons not to "rehire" me. The chairman of the school board apologized to me later, after the results of the provincial government examinations for Grade 12 came out. (I had been painted as an incompetent teacher, but the exam results were significantly higher than they had been for years previously. I admit that felt good.)
In my situation, I saw the problem that others had seen. Accusations/evaluations are made, and a committee decides *without* being open with the employee or even interviewing the employee. It's so easy to abuse such a closed system. By contrast, in "the world," it is actually illegal to fire someone without demonstrating good cause. I saw that our whole Adventist proceduraly system of hiring and firing needed reformation (I knew of other incidents), but I also saw that I wasn't spiritually strong enough to survive being part of such a campaign.
I pray that the Lord will give you peace regarding this matter, even while you continue to remain sensitive to the needs of others. That is only possible by the power of the Holy Spirit, I'm sure.
Those in administrative positions who follow the Pharasaical course of making things "look good" will eventually reap the rewards of their actions. When it comes down to it, it is a lack of faith that God will look after the consequences if they do the right thing. While it may look different on the surface, it is not qualitatively different from the morality of the thief or embezzler. God sees past the suits and ties into the hearts of church officials in high places. Unless they repent, they will some day hear those awful words, "I know you not."
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What kind of a denomination do we belong to? I am not questioning SDA doctrine, but an organization.
One where aggressive lawsuits are recommended and I agree is needed to get their attention and make any kind of change. Lawsuits only teach them they may suffer consequences for not doing the right thing.
It doesn't change the heart.
I don't care that this is something that plagues all denominations, we claim to be different. Nor do the typical pat answers of it is an evil world cut it.
Secular businesses live in the same evil world and they seem to see the importance of stopping abusive behavior. We hide behind the seperation of church and state, condemn those that would dare bring dishonor on the church by speaking out.
I have to agree with Bonnie here. I was also with her in SNT for some considerable time, but hitting one's head up against a brick wall and seeing family and other victims crumble around us, is very draining and soul-destroying. I admire Bonnie that she and her family have been able to 'hang in there'. Believe me, the tactics that are used to destroy those who stand for truth, are legion, but seem to follow a pattern. Even one's home is not safe from intrusion, in one way or another.
It's all about sweeping it under the carpet; don't let the church get a bad name; too bad about the victim (they should forgive and forget, as if one could forget those terrible abuses), blame the victim (they MUST have encouraged the perpetrater etc - ABSOLUTE GARBAGE).
There will be a day of reckoning in the judgement day, but how many people will there be whose lives on this earth have been ruined, because of those in positions of power, denying the victims any rights? I'd better stop right there, or there will be a long essay following.
Sit with a victim and listen to them. REALLY LISTEN. I don't know how many of these dear people can get up and face each day. It's no wonder many of them try to blot it all out with drug and alcohol and then further, have the 'labelling' of righteous (sic) Christian people, to deal with. If anyone thinks they know what all this must be like, just talk to and listen to victims who are trying to deal with life, after being treated as liars, promiscuous and trouble makers, by those in authority. :'(
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Unfortunately I am well acquainted with a case where victims of sexual abuse could not find any help within the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Years too late they found some help through a parson of another denomination. We must not continue sweeping such crimes under the rug as if it does not matter.
What did our Saviour and His Word say about such conditions in the last days?
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Unfortunately I am well acquainted with a case where victims of sexual abuse could not find any help within the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Years too late they found some help through a parson of another denomination. We must not continue sweeping such crimes under the rug as if it does not matter.
What did our Saviour and His Word say about such conditions in the last days?
I appreciate what you have all said. I know Ozzie knows exactly what I am talking about. Most hear but do not listen.
I have read here where it seems that there are those trying to change things at 3ABN by new people. 3ABN is 3ABN and will remain so as long as there is not full recognition and responsibility taken by all involved or they are removed. This is exactly what happens in cases abuse that is allowed/ignored and covered. Move the guilty, fire the one accused when there is no choice and claim a change has been made. The only change has been a face.
I am sure this is far from easy for Mr. joy and Bob Pickle and they have those that wish they would just go away, but at least there is some support and desire to get at the truth and stop the abuses.
I don't think this would be happening if this were not an independent ministry. If this were dealing with the administration of a conference or higher that behaved in this manner, I doubt seriously if there would be the support there is.
I am glad there is, I am glad there is support for LS,however how many would support a victim not well known Just Jane Doe sitting in the back pew that had been abused in this manner or worse, the way some victims are. Physical,up close and personal abuse. The pastor's wife in our situation ended up in a woman's shelter with her child.
Until that happens and I doubt it will, stories like Atlantic union will continue. Cause commotion for a while and then poof, everyone forgets ,best to move on anyway.
As for turning to another denomination for help, we have been there as well. The Luthren church stepped in and helped my grnadchildren when ours refused.
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Bonnie, I cannot begin to imagine what your family had to go through!
I applaud you and your family for having the determination not to let things rest without exposing the perpretators.
There are other areas in which our church is often less kind/just than the world --"not rehiring" employees, for instance. In my own conference I know of former Adventist teachers who built a distinguished career after not being "rehired" in an Adventist institution. In my own case, I discovered the reason the conference education secretary asked impossible things of me (hired 3 weeks before the beginning of the school year) was that the job had already been promised to someone else (related to conference staff) for the following year. So he had to find reasons not to "rehire" me. The chairman of the school board apologized to me later, after the results of the provincial government examinations for Grade 12 came out. (I had been painted as an incompetent teacher, but the exam results were significantly higher than they had been for years previously. I admit that felt good.)
In my situation, I saw the problem that others had seen. Accusations/evaluations are made, and a committee decides *without* being open with the employee or even interviewing the employee. It's so easy to abuse such a closed system. By contrast, in "the world," it is actually illegal to fire someone without demonstrating good cause. I saw that our whole Adventist proceduraly system of hiring and firing needed reformation (I knew of other incidents), but I also saw that I wasn't spiritually strong enough to survive being part of such a campaign.
I pray that the Lord will give you peace regarding this matter, even while you continue to remain sensitive to the needs of others. That is only possible by the power of the Holy Spirit, I'm sure.
Those in administrative positions who follow the Pharasaical course of making things "look good" will eventually reap the rewards of their actions. When it comes down to it, it is a lack of faith that God will look after the consequences if they do the right thing. While it may look different on the surface, it is not qualitatively different from the morality of the thief or embezzler. God sees past the suits and ties into the hearts of church officials in high places. Unless they repent, they will some day hear those awful words, "I know you not."
Your story is all part of the whole problem of abuse.Goes right to the administration of our denomination. Once it is tolerated and accepted,it isn't one form of abuse. Abuse of power is just that. And it is tolerated from the top down
If the administration did not practise abusive forms of power, and did not tolerate it well, sometimes encouraging, the employees that did so would not last long, no matter what form the abuse took
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Your story is all part of the whole problem of abuse.Goes right to the administration of our denomination. Once it is tolerated and accepted,it isn't one form of abuse. Abuse of power is just that. And it is tolerated from the top down
If the administration did not practise abusive forms of power, and did not tolerate it well, sometimes encouraging, the employees that did so would not last long, no matter what form the abuse took
Unfortunately, I do not see the Admin of our denomination at the top echelons, changing in my lifetime. However, I am aware of cases in Australia, where those cases were handled with care for the victim, with the appropriate legal intervention and anything else that was needed or should have been attended to, was put in place. I recognise that these occasions were the exception to the rule, but I guess that CHANGE has to start somewhere. There were leaders with integrity who were prepared to act, as soon as they were aware of it, and I can only thank God for that.
However, I have spoken with victims and their families elsewhere and it's been more of the same ole same thing. Sweep it under the carpet, blame the victim and intimidate them in order to protect 'the good name of the Church'. No wonder there are so many missing members over the years. While they were shamed into submission, escape out the back door was the only option available to them.
I understand what you're saying Bonnie about whether this was a case other than with 3abn, would people be taking up the cause? Maybe, (hopefully), this particular case may create awareness within our Church, so that people are not led so blindly up the garden path, and people may question behaviours and leaders as they've never done so before. Education and exposure is a good way to start, to let Adventist see that they (and others), cannot have abuse covered up. Maybe, people will start looking for accountability from the top down, and might not be so ready to keep the lid on abuse (or am I being overly optimistic today?). Let us continue to support and encourage Gailon and Bob, as they open more of the Pandora's box day after day.
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I hope the situtation with 3 ABN has that effect. I am glad there are those that could call a spade a spade and take action. I think LS does deserve support. I know a little about what Bob Pickle and Mr. Joy have/are facing. I am not making slight of that. More than anything I wish I had the funds to make a significent contribution.
I just wish this was a action that could take over the mentality of the pew sitters for awhile in general.
Maybe we just haven't heard, but where are the alumni and parents of the current students of Atlantic Union. If I were a parent my tution would be withdrawn until some explainations were forthcoming, not years down the road when they finally decide to settle..As alumni all funds would be cut off till I received the same information.
Parents and alumni have the ability to rattle this cage pretty effectively and I doubt it will happen. A few words of disbelief and then "Let christ Handle It When He Comes" is likely what you will hear.
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When my wife came back home this morning she felt quite uneasy. In a parking lot she had come rather close to a parked jeep. An unseen bar or something? She tried to find the owner of the jeep, so she jotted down the license number. Back home she called the registry and the name and address was provided.
- Shall we try to find the phone number? I suggested.
- No, I want to go there. I want to see that person face to face.
It turned out to be a smiling, beautiful young lady.
- Let's take a look, she suggested. And then she said she had driven into a signpost recently, which meant that section had to be replaced, and she was sure that little scratch would be taken care of at the same time.
Ida stopped by a daughter on her way home. When the son-in-law saw the minor damage to our car, he promised to take care of that. And we know he is able to do just that.
When we have done something there is but one way of handling it, and that starts with facing it. Yes, the damage will be covered up on the cars, but how?
Other issues have to be met face on too. Trying to cover them up by blaming others is not the solution. And then covering up all the blunders made in previous cover-ups just make it worse. This is how Danny Shelton is attempting to get away, and this does not work among Christian people in the long run.
Gailon Arthur was a staunch supporter of 3ABN and Danny Shelton until he discovered this cover-up. I think he tried to reason, he tried to get the matters settled and reaching a solution. Then Bob came to his aid with his thorough research.
I cannot say if I would have done all the things they have done exactly the same way they have done it, but at least they have demonstrated their willingness to help uncover things that need to be cleansed in the Church before Jesus returns. Jesus is looking for purity among His people, and filth needs to be eradicated and covered up by His blood. This what the whole thing is about.
If Danny Shelton and his cronies had handled this issue in a Christian way right from the beginning, the thing had been dealt with face to face with no cover-ups. And during these four years there have been one cover-up after another. I see the last and the worst is this attempt to squash the truth by spending millions of dollars on a court case. So many guilty people have escaped "punishment" for their deeds by hiring the most efficient lawyers, so why not Danny Shelton?
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If Danny had handled this situation with Linda in a Christian way, (even if Linda were guilty as charged, and I certainly do not believe she was guilty at all), he would have put his arms around her and forgiven her and protected her from any and all publicity! No one would have known and the marriage could be intact today, with Linda still doing the work she loved at 3ABN. But, in my opinion, Danny Shelton had another agenda already in place and Linda just wasn't part of his plan ~ and the rest is history. I don't listen to 3ABN any more as I realize it is not about "mending broken people" as they proclaim.
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If Danny had handled this situation with Linda in a Christian way, (even if Linda were guilty as charged, and I certainly do not believe she was guilty at all), he would have put his arms around her and forgiven her and protected her from any and all publicity! No one would have known and the marriage could be intact today, with Linda still doing the work she loved at 3ABN. But, in my opinion, Danny Shelton had another agenda already in place and Linda just wasn't part of his plan ~ and the rest is history. I don't listen to 3ABN any more as I realize it is not about "mending broken people" as they proclaim.
Thank you, Jodi. Right at the beginning I wrote to Danny and suggested he do what you say here, and I made the same suggestion to Walt. From their reaction it seemed like they did not care for my suggestion.
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:caution: This topic is not particularly about Danny, Linda, and 3ABN, therefore, let us try and not go too far in that direction in this topic.
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I wonder when we will hear more about that court case?
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I hope the situtation with 3 ABN has that effect. I am glad there are those that could call a spade a spade and take action. I think LS does deserve support. I know a little about what Bob Pickle and Mr. Joy have/are facing. I am not making slight of that. More than anything I wish I had the funds to make a significant contribution.
Likewise Bonnie, I understand only too well how families can be bankrupted physically, financially, emotionally and even in regard to family relationships, when one chooses to go with their conscience, rather than bow to pressure from those who have the money and the power.
I would dearly love to financially support Mr Joy and Mr Pickle, but my husband and I have already paid a price that has left us to reply on a very small Government pension in our retirement. Not the way one expects their working life to end, but would I do the same again, given the same set of circumstances? Yes. Indeed I would. One still has to live with their conscience and do what they believe to be right.
I would appeal to people to support Gailon and Bob all hey can. Surely, if there are bank rolls out there to support DS and 3abn, there must also be people who can support Joy and Pickle.
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Entrenched institutionalists tend to work hard at crucifying the messengers, rather than looking at the message and determining if there is any real truth to the issue. This is excatly what we have dealt with at 3ABN and within the denomination. It is a common issue and is why so many cases end up in the realm of juris prudence rather than conciliation. And even why so many resort to public disclosure...there is simply no real forum within the denomination to facilitate conciliation.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Entrenched institutionalists tend to work hard at crucifying the messengers, rather than looking at the message and determining if there is any real truth to the issue. This is excatly what we have dealt with at 3ABN and within the denomination. It is a common issue and is why so many cases end up in the realm of juris prudence rather than conciliation. And even why so many resort to public disclosure...there is simply no real forum within the denomination to facilitate conciliation.
Gailon Arthur Joy
Some years ago they started used confrontation where victims and and the offender had to meet. A service station burglar was forced to meet the young girl he demanded the money from at gunpoint. It was quite a revelation to him to discover what that girl had to suffer. He was under the impression he was only confiscating some funds from the wealthy insurance company and nobody would get hurt.
Could it be a similar principle where some conciliator helps the parties understand what really was at stake. How much Linda had to suffer because her husband wanted a younger model? Or perhaps also where Danny gets to "demonstrate" to what degree his ego was hurting?
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Likewise Bonnie, I understand only too well how families can be bankrupted physically, financially, emotionally and even in regard to family relationships, when one chooses to go with their conscience, rather than bow to pressure from those who have the money and the power.
I would dearly love to financially support Mr Joy and Mr Pickle, but my husband and I have already paid a price that has left us to reply on a very small Government pension in our retirement. Not the way one expects their working life to end, but would I do the same again, given the same set of circumstances? Yes. Indeed I would. One still has to live with their conscience and do what they believe to be right.
I would appeal to people to support Gailon and Bob all hey can. Surely, if there are bank rolls out there to support DS and 3abn, there must also be people who can support Joy and Pickle.
Ozzie, I can certainly understand your situation, because we are in a similar one. However, it also occurred to me that most of us would not miss $5.00 - $25.00 a month, even though we are on a limited budget. The few dollars from many add up. That's how 3ABN takes in millions. There's not nearly as many who know of the need for money by two men who have put their possessions and families on the line for the sake of justice as there are 3ABN contributors. Maybe we can spread the word?
I'm thinking that if I were in their place, I would appreciate the small contributions as well as the larger ones. Thus, following the Golden Rule, I will be adding some money to the fund at www.pickle-publishing.com/defensefund.htm
(I'm going to ask Bob to put in a PayPal link as well, because that is better for some who'd prefer not to use a credit card. Furthermore, PayPal allows setting up monthly contributions for a stated period of time.)
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What kind of a denomination do we belong to? I am not questioning SDA doctrine, but an organization.
.......
I don't care that this is something that plagues all denominations, we claim to be different.
Hmmmmm, Right on Bonnie! I was onced married to the daughter of a conference president. Little did I know that she'd been suduced at the age of 15 by a "Ordained minister," a member of the Faith For Today Quartet, and then had a 7 year affair with that "minister." I was off fighting some Vietnamize who wished to kill me.....and I'd always loved that girl from the age of 16! So we got married ..........when she was through with me......of course she got a divorce which her father (the Conference President) got approved irrespective of what was morally right. Then she married another PK, (who happened to be a convicted felon of gang rape)
Now she's on her 3rd husband and is the "Dean" of students at an independent right wing EGW inspired school in British Columbia. Sorry.....but "what kind of denomination do we belong to.......but an organization" I had to leave that "organization" so that I could maintain some coherence of a relationship with Jesus Christ!
FWIW, when I went to Atlantic Union College.....the secretary for the "Dean of Students," you know the gal who typed the letters of censure to students......was having an affair with the chairman of the Business Department....who later on became the Treasure of the Canadian Union! Her husband, the assistant manager of the ABC in South Lancaster, was quite hacked off about that! :dunno:
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Hmmmmm, Right on Bonnie! I was onced married to the daughter of a conference president. Little did I know that she'd been suduced at the age of 15 by a "Ordained minister," a member of the Faith For Today Quartet, and then had a 7 year affair with that "minister." I was off fighting some Vietnamize who wished to kill me.....and I'd always loved that girl from the age of 16! So we got married ..........when she was through with me......of course she got a divorce which her father (the Conference President) got approved irrespective of what was morally right. Then she married another PK, (who happened to be a convicted felon of gang rape)
Now she's on her 3rd husband and is the "Dean" of students at an independent right wing EGW inspired school in British Columbia. Sorry.....but "what kind of denomination do we belong to.......but an organization" I had to leave that "organization" so that I could maintain some coherence of a relationship with Jesus Christ!
FWIW, when I went to Atlantic Union College.....the secretary for the "Dean of Students," you know the gal who typed the letters of censure to students......was having an affair with the chairman of the Business Department....who later on became the Treasure of the Canadian Union! Her husband, the assistant manager of the ABC in South Lancaster, was quite hacked off about that! :dunno:
You sound like a very bitter person J R Layman. Sometimes, one needs to 'let go' of issues and get on with life. You cannot judge an entire organisation by several people's misdemeanours. There are good people as well as those who are otherwise, both in the church and out of it.
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Bitterness results from the failure of the Church to query, investigate and discipline open and notorious sins in the church. It is a blashemy before the Lord.
Each of these issues is an open sin with many victims. Many are bitter and discouraged and have turned away from the Faith. While administrators move on and become stories in someone's tell-all books, but still get their pensions!!!
In my opinion, there needs to be a whole lot more websites. Of course these would not be neccasary if their was a confession of sin and the asking of foregivness that restored the Faith of the embittered.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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You sound like a very bitter person J R Layman. Sometimes, one needs to 'let go' of issues and get on with life. You cannot judge an entire organisation by several people's misdemeanours. There are good people as well as those who are otherwise, both in the church and out of it.
These kinds of statements is exactly what causes what you label bitterness.
Misdemeanours are one thing. That is when someone is rude, says something you don't like,etc. A misdemeanour is not what you call it when your whole life is destroyed by those in positions of power and then it is laid at your feet to try to reconstruct your life and "get over it like a common cold". While trying to rebuild your life,you watch as it continues to happen. Getting over it as described by most SDA's is forgetting what it did to a marriage, innocent children, extended family. Forgetting that as you try to rebuild, many are still active in tearing down.The many in the office/pew overshadow those few good people in the organization. The few good people are not enough to take the reigns and say NO MORE. Your sin of not getting over it is deemed far worse than the ones that go on and on, letting it happen over and over,while someone says there are good people so ignore the rest.
J.R can speak for himself,but for most it is not bitterness or anger against the actual guilty party,it is against those that would continue to allow this to keep going. A abuser can only continue to abuse with the permission and aid of those able to stop this conduct and refuse to do so.
This is not the common cold, get plenty of fluid and in 5-7 days you are all better.
In many of us it even produces the desire to make those in the pew aware and try to enlist their help, maybe even protecting their own families. Generally they are not interested. What does interest them is to keep using that badly used and abused word forgivness. They have spoken biblically, they are sure, and that should be the end of a uncomfortable story and facts they do not care to deal with.
I, so far have not been able to find any backlash,action,demands by parents of this college. If my son or daughter were enrolled here, I would be wanting answers. Nor would a dime of tution money be forthcoming till I had some. If I were a doner alumni,I would stop all donations till I had some response.
I would want to know what safeguards, I would want to know if there were prior complaints against this man ignored, if so, I would want an immediate answer as to why. Why would I as a parent want to pay for the "privilege" of having my child molested.
Have you ever played pick-up sticks. This is what this whole mess within our denomination plays. If they pull the wrong stick, the whole mess comes rolling out. It is easy to focus on the one guilty party, but does anyone really believe that those that gave the one guilty a pass for so many years did so only with one? When caught, they may finally remove the one stick, but you can be sure they keep mighty quiet about all the other sticks allowed in the pile. And are mighty careful not to disturb the wrong stick
They instead turn it on a victim.if you play nice and forget what we have done and continue to do, we will forgive you for being silly enough to be a victim. This gets picked up by those sitting in the pew. Any desire to effect change, to prevent the next victim, to make the pew sitters aware is seen as bitterness. More accurately,it is complete frustration and disbelief that the denomination you love is as callous as it is.
"Let's move on with spreading the gospel". We won't miss or care about those that fall by the wayside. After all, if they would get it together, they wouldn't fall. There are plenty more to be saved
For many, those that abuse and those that allow "spreading of the gospel" has a whole different meaning about what is being spread.
Collectively, with just the few active forums alone, there are enough to be heard and listened to. Debates abound on all other issues, I have seen on a couple of forums where the pros-and cons- of wearing jewerly can go fo over 60 pages.
I have watched the number of posts on the forums concerning what takes place in our schools and churches. Hardly a bleep by comparison.
While watching the damage done to my grandchildren, it would have been such a relief to worry about the wearing of a ring
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All those that "hold the coat" of those that abuse, should be the first to loose their position and preferably their pension. You can bet on it that they don't turn a blind eye and many times help cover for just one.
It is the whole issue they care little about. As for me, knowing the ones that turned a blind eye for thirty years,have nothing to say to me. No matter how biblical, how spiritual they sound, I believe nothing that comes out of their mouth. A person cannot be corrupt in one area and incorruptible in all other area's.
Forgivness then becomes a abusive tool. One that preached long enough at a victim and nothing else does more damage than the original abuse
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All those that "hold the coat" of those that abuse, should be the first to loose their position and preferably their pension. You can bet on it that they don't turn a blind eye and many times help cover for just one.
It is the whole issue they care little about. As for me, knowing the ones that turned a blind eye for thirty years,have nothing to say to me. No matter how biblical, how spiritual they sound, I believe nothing that comes out of their mouth. A person cannot be corrupt in one area and incorruptible in all other area's.
Agreed Bonnie. Once a person is caught out in any situation, those who are affected are not going to believe a word of what is said thereafter. If there is a pattern of 'turning a blind eye' to any problem within the church, those responsible need to be removed, and yes. I agree that their pensions should go also.
Forgivness then becomes a abusive tool. One that preached long enough at a victim and nothing else does more damage than the original abuse
Indeed, 'forgiveness' is preached at the expense of rectifying the problem and ensuring that safeguards are put in place, so that the same cannot happen again. Too often, people are told to forgive and forget, while perpetraters go on as before. It is this attitude that started the groundswell against 3abn.
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You sound like a very bitter person J R Layman. Sometimes, one needs to 'let go' of issues and get on with life. You cannot judge an entire organisation by several people's misdemeanours. There are good people as well as those who are otherwise, both in the church and out of it.
These kinds of statements is exactly what causes what you label bitterness.
Misdemeanours are one thing. That is when someone is rude, says something you don't like,etc. A misdemeanour is not what you call it when your whole life is destroyed by those in positions of power and then it is laid at your feet to try to reconstruct your life and "get over it like a common cold". While trying to rebuild your life,you watch as it continues to happen. Getting over it as described by most SDA's is forgetting what it did to a marriage, innocent children, extended family. Forgetting that as you try to rebuild, many are still active in tearing down.The many in the office/pew overshadow those few good people in the organization. The few good people are not enough to take the reigns and say NO MORE. Your sin of not getting over it is deemed far worse than the ones that go on and on, letting it happen over and over,while someone says there are good people so ignore the rest.
Bonnie, my response was not just to what was written here in this last post. I acknowledge the truth of everything you have written here, and how people can be affected by a corrupt system that destroys their lives.
However, my comments also referred to very untrue allegations that J R Layman laid against me previously. Those remarks have now been removed from this Board, but it does make me more cautious of J R Laymen, because of his unfounded allegations against me personally.
People can be so overcome with bitterness, that they do not recognise 'truth' when they see it, or they tar everyone with the same brush. There is a need to be able to stand back and not accuse everyone, because one has been hurt by a multiplicity of people or systems. Not everyone is a rotten apple.
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My biggest objection is using words like "misdemeanor" to describe evil, immoral acts that tear families apart.
This is exactly how events like this are viewed.
Only when the day comes it is seen as the evil it is,will any progress be made. While I believe we have many good pastors, I do not believe that applies to those in leadership. Those that could actually bring an end to much of this. Statistically I do not know what the numbers are for pastors/teachers etc that abuse are. Probably relatively small. The ones that hold the power are the ones that need to be called to account,along with the guilty and much larger in number.
If the majority in leadership positions took a stand, the few by comparison that do this could not be free to operate this way. Why don't they? They are the ones that need to be stopped and it starts at the highest level. So far they are pretty untouchable, acting for all the world like a few soothing words and the dismissal of one is the answer.
For every one that is dismissed, how many are passed over to the next conference or have it covered up. The attitude of it being only a misdemeanor is alive and well
Just our case alone involved five conferences and scores of individuals that knew the capabilities of this man.It began with a memo from his first pastoral job. A memo was sent out to his peers in the conference. Cautioning them to guard their families. To bad the same concern was not shown for all those including my family. And yes, we have the notarized statement to that effect.
This is not denial, it is evil. This is not about not knowing what to do, it is about not caring enough to do anything.
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My biggest objection is using words like "misdemeanor" to describe evil, immoral acts that tear families apart.
This is exactly how events like this are viewed.
Only when the day comes it is seen as the evil it is,will any progress be made. While I believe we have many good pastors, I do not believe that applies to those in leadership. Those that could actually bring an end to much of this. Statistically I do not know what the numbers are for pastors/teachers etc that abuse are. Probably relatively small. The ones that hold the power are the ones that need to be called to account,along with the guilty and much larger in number.
If the majority in leadership positions took a stand, the few by comparison that do this could not be free to operate this way. Why don't they? They are the ones that need to be stopped and it starts at the highest level. So far they are pretty untouchable, acting for all the world like a few soothing words and the dismissal of one is the answer.
For every one that is dismissed, how many are passed over to the next conference or have it covered up. The attitude of it being only a misdemeanor is alive and well
Just our case alone involved five conferences and scores of individuals that knew the capabilities of this man.It began with a memo from his first pastoral job. A memo was sent out to his peers in the conference. Cautioning them to guard their families. To bad the same concern was not shown for all those including my family. And yes, we have the notarized statement to that effect.
This is not denial, it is evil. This is not about not knowing what to do, it is about not caring enough to do anything.
:praying: Amen.
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[quote chrissie]
You sound like a very bitter person J R Layman. Sometimes, one needs to 'let go' of issues and get on with life. You cannot judge an entire organisation by several people's misdemeanours. There are good people as well as those who are otherwise, both in the church and out of it.
I am not "bitter," (and I'd PREFER that you cease from "LABELING" me, as I believe that is AGAINST the Rules here!) I'm a realist, "Chrissie." But if an "Organization" is rift with sin, poor leadership, nepotism, financial mismanagement, (the issue of 3ABN is a perfect example) ....etc....it should be acknowledged! Hey, I enjoyed my 3 years at AUC :) Lets see, had a very hot motorcycle (my brother demanded I give it to him, when I told him that I was flying over 7 bridge road in Lancaster at 117 mph :-[), a low slung Italian convertible sports car (my now dear wife, got that totaled in Houston, when an illigal immagrant ran into her), a fast water ski boat (sold that to my buddy in another conferance, where he was Youth Director, for his summer camp), ...lived near Boston, met a great girl at AUC (my best friend ever) Although I was very busy…taking a full load, whilst a Staff Sergeant at nearby Ft. Devens in the U.S. Army (which fortunately I was working nights in the ER…so I could do that) ....I'm simply recognizing what went on there. Let's see, besides the Chair of the Bus. Department (who ended up as the Canadian Union Treasure!) and his "affair" with the secretary to the Dean of Students. The members of the "Art Department" were trading around wife’s and husbands! One of the "Professors" in the Religion Department was known to be a homosexual....another "professor" in the Religion Department....got rid of his wife a few years later for a younger woman!
FWIW...the WORST "sermon" I ever listened to.....was when the then pastor of the college church extolling the virtues of building a new church, and the financial sacrifice to do so. NOT ONCE during the WHOLE WORSHIP was the name of God/Christ/Jesus mentioned...even in the "prayers!" I think it was then at that "service" that I first started questioning my relationship with the Adventist church. (of course that “pastor” went on to become the President of the SNEC of SDA)......The divorce from another Conference President's daughter didn't make me "bitter," (OK her stealing my kids from me, and keeping them from me sorta did!). But I can still recall sitting up in the balcony of Macklin Auditorium at AUC.....attending "church" and not getting an ounce of spiritual blessing (when at that point in my life, I very much needed spiritual support!) .......now THAT did get me thinking of why I was WASTING my time attending an Adventist Church! So now I'm just an "Adventist"....simply not an official "Seventh-day Adventist."
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So now I'm just an "Adventist"....simply not an official "Seventh-day Adventist."
Well, JR, I'm glad you're still an "Adventist." :)
Sometimes it's necessary to stand at a little distance to get a better perspective.
I believe the gospel net (including the Adventist brand) draws in all kinds of fish -- good one, middling ones, bad ones and rotten ones. You seem to have been pretty much buried in a pile of rotten fish. :-[
At that point it's necessary to decide what the gospel is and what the rotten fish are. ;)
FWIW, I believe there is no clearer expression of the Good News than that contained in Adventist doctrines. I've even known a few Adventists who demonstrate this truth in their lives. I'm sorry you haven't. Maybe you can be one who demonstrates what it means to be a genuine Adventist Christian to those who come in contact with you? (After all, if we're all looking for the demonstration in someone else, who's there left to demonstrate? ;) )
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Now you know why the AUReporter was born!!! Not appreciated by the denominational leadership, but born and read, nonetheless, much to their chagrin!!! \
Unfortunately, we are only slightly better off in the Atlantic Union than the period that JRLaymen was here, but, the bleed is halted and we work toward reformation every day. One step at a time.
You, JR Laymen, have accurately portrayed the mess in what Mainers came to call "the Unholy City" of Lancaster, Mass. Just too many humans and not enough Christians. Too many closed sessions and too few open and transparent discussion of the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The truth, properly disclosed pursuant to Matthew 18, should be cathartic and refomatatory, not to mention conciliatory.
Gailon Arthur Joy
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Well I just hope that Norman can clean up the mess at AUC (Haitians having a riot against Bermudians...and having to call in 6 local police departments!) ....I knew him slightly as a kid....when we lived in NYC. He was a nice guy, very cerebral , even back then in the 60's. Jack Menges (also from NYC) ...the "Dean of Students" isn't a guy to mess with......(somehow I'm somewhat related to him by marriage...haven't figured out how). But he also has an extremely tough path to follow...to be "politically correct" and still be able to demonstrate some sort of discipline over that rowdy bunch of students! FWIW....AUC keeps calling and sending appeals to both my wife and I for Alumni donations......Sorry.....we'll skip!
The question remains....Will AUC represent "African Union College" or will it represent "Atlantic Union College?" Of all 22 graduates of Pinetree Academy several years ago, in Freeport, Maine.....21 went to Southern University or other colleges, and only ONE went to AUC according to a friend of mine, up in Freeport.
I noted that a picture of a recent graduating class of AUC, simply had NO White Anglo-Saxon American Males.......not to say I'm a bigot (I am) ...but when my nephew went there....he lasted about 4 days, before he decided on going to AU.
When I went to AUC in the late 70’s one of my buddies (who happened to be black) and I decided we’d have a ”White Christian Union” like the “Black Christian Union” at AUC… We mentioned it to Dr. Carolyn (forget her last name) of the English Dept (usually the most :LIBERAL on any campus)…..She got really PO’d at us. ROFL
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There is no question that Racism and Apartheid, going both ways, is alive and well in the Atlantic Union. It is a real spit in the face to Christianity, the Millerites and to the ideals of the Seventh-day Adventist founders to have this undercurrent of ongoing divisiveness so persistent within our denominational institutions. And right here, in the cradle of Seventh-day Adventism.
It is a major reason that AUC continues to struggle for survival and why it is likely that AUC and the Atlantic Union Conference will no longer exist in the years ahead. A sad tribute to the likes of Haskell, Prescott and so many others were such a great group of pioneers of the Faith of Jesus.
There are many who work diligently to see the fulfillment of the Counsels' famous "the work will return to the East with power" statement, including Mark and Tiny Finley. They have had great success re-igniting lay activities in Northern New England and Share Him is working hard to get things going in Southern New England, but it is at best a spark of what will be when the "Lord manifests His Power within the church".
But, rest assured, that day is coming!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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I remember well, Ernestine Tenny when she was in the 9 or 10 grade at White Memorial School in Portland Maine, in 1960, I was in the 5th grade. Even then, she was the most kind and considerate "Christian" anyone would ever wish to meet. Glad to hear that Mark and her are doing something in the NNEC!
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Mark was my inspiration as a teenager. First got to meet him at a Youth Rally in NNEC and he had just returned from Brazil where he had served as AUC's first ever Student Missionary for a summer. Everyone was thrilled to support the AUC Student Missionary program and he was a terrific representative as he presented his one hour slide show.
After meeting him personally after the show, I clearly wanted to walk in that man's footsteps and opted to pay the price for a private parochial school education. That meant I had to work as my parents were not practicing Seventh-day Adventists and I treasured every moment of the experience. PVA had just opened and was expensive but offered a work study program and a "Lawroweld" campus out in the Hills of New Braintree.
As a senior we had the opportunity to work with Mark again, this time as the conference evangelist for SNEC. He put on a very early version of the "Share Him" program and the students did many of the presentations. We also did much of the weekend door-knocking and visitation and used the old slide projector bible study programs.
During my college years I did the Campus Crusade for Christ program and had the great opportunity of trying to keep up with Elder Ron Halvorsen in New York City. That man was the most Christ Centered and motivated evangelist I have ever met. You could not keep step with his daily pace!!! The church got a real bargain with this man...he worked from sun-up til well after sun-down evey day. Many times he would be doing two evangelistic campaigns daily. I will never forget him standing on a park bench in Battery Park preaching the gospel from his old worn leather bound Bible right there in the Park as a crowd gathered while we passed out literature inviting people to a pending effort in lower Manhattan. This was in the Vietnam protest era and the mounties showed up, but when we told them who he was, they just nodded and moved on.
Later, I was to find out that Mark Finley was well known for doing as many as three evangelistic presentations daily and still doing the visitation and prayer warrior programs.
These are two men that will die with their boots on and a Bible in the hand, preaching the Gospel in the tradition of Joseph Bates, Stephen Haskell and so many other pioneers with roots and ethics born in the Atlantic Union. Finley and Halvorsen are both AUC Grads. That generation will be sorely missed and I fear that I do not see replacements coming quickly onto the scene. Guess that means we will have to pick up the slack, God Willing!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Later, I was to find out that Mark Finley was well known for doing as many as three evangelistic presentations daily and still doing the visitation and prayer warrior programs.
These are two men that will die with their boots on and a Bible in the hand, preaching the Gospel in the tradition of Joseph Bates, Stephen Haskell and so many other pioneers with roots and ethics born in the Atlantic Union. Finley and Halvorsen are both AUC Grads. That generation will be sorely missed and I fear that I do not see replacements coming quickly onto the scene. Guess that means we will have to pick up the slack, God Willing!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
Thanks, Gailon, for rounding out the picture and telling the other side of the story from that which J.R. Layman told.
It looks to me as though the Atlantic Union has produced somd of the very worst and the very best in Adventism.
And the devil is working hard to ensure that no more of "the best" will come out of AUC. But then, God is stronger! :thumbsup:
Thanks also for sharing how the "AU Reporter" was born. :thumbsup: (Thanks, J.R. for getting this conversation going beyond current charges.)
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Gailon...
Re:"Lawroweld" campus out in the Hills of New Braintree"
Ouch...I was spoiled by going to SLA, in South Lancaster on the campus of AUC, the previous year that PVA was opened. Sorry....but PVA being out in the country, on that windswept hill......(No Rowell’s grocery store right off campus for munchies!) I lasted about 2 or 3 weeks at PVA and said to myself, "upchuck this!" PVA was a prison as compared to SLA in South Lancaster...... I didn't even call home, simply told the dean I was leaving......so he at least gave me a ride to the Bus Station in Worcester......I would have simply stuck my thumb out...to get off that forlorn windswept hill in New Braintree! Greater New York Academy in NYC was an interesting experience for that year.
I'd get to the corner for a bus ride to the Hempstead Long Island RR station at about 6:30.......Had my breakfast at the Breakstone Coffee shop in Woodside.....(cup of coffee and a buttered kieser roll) and got to school at GNYA about 8:30. After school, I'd take the subway to Times Square....walk over to the Adventist "Times Square Center" on 46th St. 3 blocks off of Broadway (NOT to be confused with the "New York Center" on 47th st. [half a block off Broadway] which was a Seventh Day Adventist Church....and Evangelism Center) which was the center for the Jewish work in NYC....under the direction of Dr. Jay Hoffman......where I had a job printing...... had to take a subway S. to Penn. Station and then get the LIRR to Hempstead to get home about 10:00 PM!
OTOH....my now 21 y/o daughter says she wants to get her Ph.D. in NYC ......I've told her, NO WAY are we going to support you getting your graduate education in NYC.....!!!! Been there, done that....but no way am I going to let my kid live in NYC for 3 years! I told her to move to Seattle!
Frankly, I thought it was quite apt, that the Massachusetts State Police bought Pioneer Valley Academy for their Police Academy! Even though my former lawyer (an SDA) in S. Lancaster absconded with the funds that the SNEC thought they got, from the sale of PVA (at least he was convicted and got some jail time!). ….