Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Artiste on June 24, 2011, 01:57:34 PM
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Princessdi has commented in a previous post:
The only thing their affiliation might promote at this point is a possible inclusion in a law suit.....deep pockets. Whatever perceived threat they see from progressives is no where near the danger they are in supporting an organization who is presently effectively supporting an accused pedophile to the point where they have now opened up themselves and the SDA church name they carry to a lawsuit.
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However, 3ABN continues to provide a media platform for Seventh-day Adventist church leaders.
This month the following can be viewed on 3ABN:
1) Dan Jackson, new president of the Seventh-day Adventist North American Division.
2) Jay Gallimore, president of the Michigan Conference.
3) Mark Finley, retired GC General Vice President and past speaker/director of It Is Written.
4) John Bradshaw, evangelist and new speaker/director of It Is Written.
5) Shawn Boonstra, former speaker/director of It Is Written.
6) Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine.
7) Ed Reid, Stewrdship Director of the Seventh-day Adventist North American Division.
8) Dwight Nelson, long term pastor of Pioneer Memorial church at Andrews University.
9) ASI
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Is it possible that the SDA church leadership really does want to overlook the problems at 3ABN that have been swept under the rug for so many years so they can preserve their TV appearances on an "international television network"?
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I'm not sure if it is considered a postmodern concept to accept whatever "seems to be working" rather than standing for adherence to concrete truth and an absolute set of standards i.e. the ten commandments but it seems to me that extreme pragmatism is the norm. Someone or many someones do not have the intestinal fortitude to chance "rocking the boat". Isn't the greatest need of the world men who will "stand for the right though the heavens fall" and who trust the consequences to God?
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I think you have to first look at the list of folks you gave above, and then ask which ones are appearing today on 3ABN, which ones are appearing in reruns of old programs, and which ones are appearing in programs taped elsewhere.
For example, Ed Reid is no longer NAD stewardship director, so if he is appearing on 3ABN in that capacity, it has to be a rerun.
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It's true that many of the programs were taped earlier or are reruns, but remember that "perception is reality".
To the more casual viewer, the perception is that there are a substantial number of church leaders appearing on 3ABN.
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Certain viewers of 3ABN have noticed that Danny Shelton has not been seen for quite a while. Wonder why?
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It's true that many of the programs were taped earlier or are reruns, but remember that "perception is reality".
To the more casual viewer, the perception is that there are a substantial number of church leaders appearing on 3ABN.
If a church leader refuses to appear on 3ABN, and all present "appearances" are reruns, it might not sink in to the average viewer what is really happening, but one can hardly fault the leader who refuses to appear.
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It's true that many of the programs were taped earlier or are reruns, but remember that "perception is reality".
To the more casual viewer, the perception is that there are a substantial number of church leaders appearing on 3ABN.
If a church leader refuses to appear on 3ABN, and all present "appearances" are reruns, it might not sink in to the average viewer what is really happening, but one can hardly fault the leader who refuses to appear.
I think the leader might very well be faulted for quietly not appearing but also not doing anything about the perception of the average viewer that 3ABN is accepted within the SDA church as its foremost evangelistic media outlet.
Do you think that Dan Jackson should have "refused to appear" a few weeks ago?
3ABN Today LIVE: Dan Jackson, North American Division President ... Thu, May 26, 8:00 p.m. CDT
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I think that despite the political precariousness of it all, something should have been said long ago.
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I wonder if the concern is not only the possible alienation of 3ABN viewers and supporters in the US. The work in Russia and such places as St Lucia where 3ABN has gained followers etc. must be a concern to church leaders. We do have a world wide church. Nevertheless God as called on Abraham to sacrifice Isaaac, sometimes you have to do the right thing even if it takes faith and looks like it may be counterproductive.
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The Seventh-day Adventist church does not need 3ABN. Hope or LLBN can either one serve Russia and any other area needed. LLBN is doing amazing things in other countries like China and the Middle East. That is where my financial support is going, although I never supported 3ABM. Just my opinion.
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The Seventh-day Adventist church does not need 3ABN. Hope or LLBN can either one serve Russia and any other area needed. LLBN is doing amazing things in other countries like China and the Middle East. That is where my financial support is going, although I never supported 3ABM. Just my opinion.
I agree.
It's disheartening to think about sincere viewers from other countries as well as the US who believe they are receiving a spiritual benefit from the 3ABN programming. 3ABN likes to publish letters from such, along with the information that they are sending a small pittance (which is all they can afford) to help support the station.
If it comes to their attention that the founder, and by extension the president, have been involved in a child molestation cover-up, what might that do to their Christian experience?
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Artiste, that is why a person, church or organization should never be at the center of anyone's Christianity.
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Well...maybe I agree with you.
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I doubt we would have the Hope Channel, etc if 3ABN did not do what they have done.
The church overall is stronger because of it.
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I doubt we would have the Hope Channel, etc if 3ABN did not do what they have done.
The church overall is stronger because of it.
That remains to be seen, Stan.
However, I don't believe this is true. It is more likely to to cause large damage to the church.
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Unfortuntately, the SDA church(as with most christian denoms, do not have a great track record in this area. Especially where sexual abuse and/or issues are involved. I believe at this point that GC is speaking out of both sides of their mouth. The president is this super conservative guy out to eradicate any signs of "emotional" praise and worship, and any other kind of sin in the world, but he won't step up in this situation. He is ineffective. I believe that they are also somewhat relying of the "independent ministry" aspect of this. however, the church does have a choice with whom they are associated. So now they can let Danny promote their super conservative propaganda, while he is on wife number.............and his brother is on trial and is being sued for allowing him to be at 3ABN knowing(I believe it) that he had issues and creating the environment where Alex, and who know who else was molested. byt on the back side they are worried about some jewelry, meat and demonstrative praise and worship.
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Unfortuntately, the SDA church(as with most christian denoms, do not have a great track record in this area. Especially where sexual abuse and/or issues are involved. I believe at this point that GC is speaking out of both sides of their mouth. The president is this super conservative guy out to eradicate any signs of "emotional" praise and worship, and any other kind of sin in the world, but he won't step up in this situation. He is ineffective. I believe that they are also somewhat relying of the "independent ministry" aspect of this. however, the church does have a choice with whom they are associated. So now they can let Danny promote their super conservative propaganda, while he is on wife number.............and his brother is on trial and is being sued for allowing him to be at 3ABN knowing(I believe it) that he had issues and creating the environment where Alex, and who know who else was molested. byt on the back side they are worried about some jewelry, meat and demonstrative praise and worship.
Right on, princessdi!
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Unfortuntately, the SDA church(as with most christian denoms, do not have a great track record in this area. Especially where sexual abuse and/or issues are involved. I believe at this point that GC is speaking out of both sides of their mouth. The president is this super conservative guy out to eradicate any signs of "emotional" praise and worship, and any other kind of sin in the world, but he won't step up in this situation. He is ineffective. I believe that they are also somewhat relying of the "independent ministry" aspect of this. however, the church does have a choice with whom they are associated. So now they can let Danny promote their super conservative propaganda, while he is on wife number.............and his brother is on trial and is being sued for allowing him to be at 3ABN knowing(I believe it) that he had issues and creating the environment where Alex, and who know who else was molested. byt on the back side they are worried about some jewelry, meat and demonstrative praise and worship.
So you call it"super conservative Propaganda" huh!! I don't go along with DS and his actions but...his programing in some aspects are keeping up with fundamental beliefs . Even tho he doesn't and in fact a great confusion for him. Now is your opinion that most agree with --facts or opinions.
Unclean meat will keep you out of heaven according to Isaiah 66.
Jewelry and all its vanity will also keep you out
clean meat can keep you out if your a complete "liberal" in fundamental beliefs and demonstrations
and "who is the demonstrative praise for" a show, people, or what??
God does not need "style" of demonstration when he knows the heart and we are refined into obedience and heartfelt repentance and sacred worship for the Lord alone. What really do you believe in? I know one thing is just a little dab will do some from the "old" wine press. I think ya all are from California....where they are all on a trip where the purple people eaters are on stage.
lol now that sounds pretty good about as good as the opinionated statements of what conservatives worry about. I worry about the purple people eaters that is taking down the fundamentals and given a sophisticated name of "progressiveness". It is plain ole blind leading the blind
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Stan- How on earth can you say the church is bennifitted by 3ABN when it's ran by Satan? And don't say it isn't. The founder and leader is the brother and former employer of a child molestor. Sorry, but knowingly keeping someone on your payroll who can't keep his sickess under control is NO benefit to the church. Unless you condone such actionsn So which is it Stan?
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I really can't see this causing much damage to the church. The church's association with 3abn dies not include management or decision making on the level of hiring and firing. They had nothing to do with Tommy's employment at 3abn. They may distance themselves through statements or more as this progresses, but they have true culpability.
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Stan said:
I doubt we would have the Hope Channel, etc if 3ABN did not do what they have done.
The church overall is stronger because of it.
Adam, I believe you misunderstood Stan. As I understand Stan, he was saying that the SDA Church is stronger because it has Hope Channel. I do not understand Stan to be saying the it is stronger because of 3ABN.
Stan also is saying that he does not think that the SDA Church would have Hope Channel today, as it exists, if it were not for 3-ABN. IOW, he is suggesting, as I understand him, to say that the SDA Chruch has decided to support Hope Channel to the extent that it is supporting Hope Channel due to the problems that surround 3-ABN. If I correctly understand Stan, I agree with that position.
I do not suggest that 3-ABN will go out of existance. I think that it will continue in some manner. But, I do believe that the present problems of 3-ABN have given birth to Hope Channel in it present form. I think that many who understand the organizational dynamics of the SDA Chruch, on it highest levels would agree with me.
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Stan said:
I doubt we would have the Hope Channel, etc if 3ABN did not do what they have done.
The church overall is stronger because of it.
Adam, I believe you misunderstood Stan. As I understand Stan, he was saying that the SDA Church is stronger because it has Hope Channel. I do not understand Stan to be saying the it is stronger because of 3ABN.
Stan also is saying that he does not think that the SDA Church would have Hope Channel today, as it exists, if it were not for 3-ABN. IOW, he is suggesting, as I understand him, to say that the SDA Chruch has decided to support Hope Channel to the extent that it is supporting Hope Channel due to the problems that surround 3-ABN. If I correctly understand Stan, I agree with that position.
I do not suggest that 3-ABN will go out of existance. I think that it will continue in some manner. But, I do believe that the present problems of 3-ABN have given birth to Hope Channel in it present form. I think that many who understand the organizational dynamics of the SDA Chruch, on it highest levels would agree with me.
Now if this is true, then the existence of Hope Channel is somewhat evidence that the church had concerns.
When did Folkenberg call for the church to have its own network? How soon after that call did things get going?
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Did Folkenberg call for the church to have its own network? (I'm asking because I don't know.)
If he did, was it after he tried to bring 3ABN into a closer relationship with the church, but that failed?
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Did Folkenberg call for the church to have its own network? (I'm asking because I don't know.)
If he did, was it after he tried to bring 3ABN into a closer relationship with the church, but that failed?
"History
"The Hope Channel was launched October 10, 2003 by Adventist Television Network (ATN)
Back in 2004/5 I received material from SDA leaders which seemed to confirm your statements.
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Did Folkenberg call for the church to have its own network? (I'm asking because I don't know.)
If he did, was it after he tried to bring 3ABN into a closer relationship with the church, but that failed?
I understand he made that appeal at an ASI convention. Gailon can probably tell us more.
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You know, tinka, I agree with you. These "dcotrines" are important to the teaching of the SDA church. However, on a scale when talking about the impact of a ministry meant to reach the world with God's message, I believe meat eating and jewelry low on the totem pole when your employees are running around molesting young men and ruining their lives.
the parts youare talking about are exactly what keeps the church overlooking the great damage being done undercover. We have administration at 3ABN that is perverted with multiple spouses, shady financial deals and business practices, and last but not least, at least one accused pedophile. Not that anyone would e perfect, but what is being done is constantly using them to constantly worry folks about the mote in their eye, and ignoring the log in 3ABN's eye. If you are going to give them that kind of credit, they you are validating GC's reasoning for keeping 3ABN around.
So you call it"super conservative Propaganda" huh!! I don't go along with DS and his actions but...his programing in some aspects are keeping up with fundamental beliefs . Even tho he doesn't and in fact a great confusion for him. Now is your opinion that most agree with --facts or opinions.
Unclean meat will keep you out of heaven according to Isaiah 66.
Jewelry and all its vanity will also keep you out
clean meat can keep you out if your a complete "liberal" in fundamental beliefs and demonstrations
and "who is the demonstrative praise for" a show, people, or what??
God does not need "style" of demonstration when he knows the heart and we are refined into obedience and heartfelt repentance and sacred worship for the Lord alone. What really do you believe in? I know one thing is just a little dab will do some from the "old" wine press. I think ya all are from California....where they are all on a trip where the purple people eaters are on stage.
lol now that sounds pretty good about as good as the opinionated statements of what conservatives worry about. I worry about the purple people eaters that is taking down the fundamentals and given a sophisticated name of "progressiveness". It is plain ole blind leading the blind
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You know, The way I see it is that the church did start the Hope Channel, but it ws kind of half-hearted attempt until 3ABN started having troubles. I think it was that way up until 3ABN showed interest in merging with AF and Doug Bachelor, because they then still had some hope in bringing 3ABN into something like AF. But with that proposed merge there, I don't know if 3ABN was kidding themselves, the church or both.
Adam, I believe you misunderstood Stan. As I understand Stan, he was saying that the SDA Church is stronger because it has Hope Channel. I do not understand Stan to be saying the it is stronger because of 3ABN.
Stan also is saying that he does not think that the SDA Church would have Hope Channel today, as it exists, if it were not for 3-ABN. IOW, he is suggesting, as I understand him, to say that the SDA Chruch has decided to support Hope Channel to the extent that it is supporting Hope Channel due to the problems that surround 3-ABN. If I correctly understand Stan, I agree with that position.
I do not suggest that 3-ABN will go out of existance. I think that it will continue in some manner. But, I do believe that the present problems of 3-ABN have given birth to Hope Channel in it present form. I think that many who understand the organizational dynamics of the SDA Chruch, on it highest levels would agree with me.
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I do not disagree with you. That iswhy I said ". . . as it exists. . ." in my statement.
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You know, tinka, I agree with you. These "dcotrines" are important to the teaching of the SDA church. However, on a scale when talking about the impact of a ministry meant to reach the world with God's message, I believe meat eating and jewelry low on the totem pole when your employees are running around molesting young men and ruining their lives.
the parts youare talking about are exactly what keeps the church overlooking the great damage being done undercover. We have administration at 3ABN that is perverted with multiple spouses, shady financial deals and business practices, and last but not least, at least one accused pedophile. Not that anyone would e perfect, but what is being done is constantly using them to constantly worry folks about the mote in their eye, and ignoring the log in 3ABN's eye. If you are going to give them that kind of credit, they you are validating GC's reasoning for keeping 3ABN around.
I'm not giving them any credit but they are smart enough to program out with the USE of some of our best evangelists to bring on their "hay money" knowing the exact fundamentals and living totally opposite of what they are broadcasting. That is why I posted the statement., DS know all the footholds for the conservative people that bring in the pew money but is entirely confused what to do the the message on his own behalf that he broadcasts. Maybe that is a little more clear. My mind always thinks way ahead as I type and know I do not make myself clear many times. But usually when I look and answer posts I got minutes but need to hurry. So much on my plate for some time. But, the surgery is just now giving me relief and it was a hard one to go through. I am starting to get my balance and focus a little better and sure happy about that cannot believe what I have been through for 2 years with this mal-practice and mistakes. I had so much pressure from all that they had to do exploritory all over the front of my face on both sides cutting clear above the cheek line to the front from back and took some cysts out in peices they said even my eye was starting to bulge out beyond the other and what a mess. but the results are now showing good. but for days been on vicoden and perkeset ?? So much pain thought my head must be in decay for the way it felt. Sure am glad its over and.
But yes, I am in agreement about the situation and anyway you look at it there is just too much corruption in too many directions from that group. I think that it was a start to do good but "greed" and all the rest just took over while the church did nothing and they could have but they are just as guilty yet the church of good wanted to get message out from the advent people but on the other hand it also makes money so what are they choosing here? and what is right? The only thing it shows me is "no unity" to rightful doing. but it is so big and so messy that It's hard to tell where to start. But for a fact I do see worse on "HOpe" channel but not saying all is bad but enough of enough from the progressives. Here I set with my plate full and still worrying about the church and if you might look at what I stated on the thread "What is the purpose of the church" it's simple bold and factual for whatever other reasons they want to post.
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I think we agree, Tinka. My main point, though, is there is a lesson here. I know I might get anargument here, but I am not looking for one. I want us all to think aobut the fact that 3ABN talks a good game(as far as traditional SDAism is concerned) they say all the right things, they even do them on the surface,no meat, no jewelry, etc. they have the outward appearance. However, the inside of that thing is as the cisterns Jesus talked about with the pharisees, pristine on the outside and filthy on the inside. Is this better, than Hope Channel who has too many folks who have a realtionship with God, but might not have that outward appearance? I have yet to hear anything about Hope Channel that even slightly compares to 3ABN who has the rhetoric and works down pat.
Tinka(and many others of you. Tinka is just the one bold and honest enough to share that), you are constantly distracted by the outward appearance. I believe the enemy steals many blessings, messages God has for you by encouraging you to go contrary to what God does, and judge the heart and not the outward appearance. i really truly pray that one day you are delivered from that. i hope one day you will realize that the fact that you can only hear God from specific people, looking a certain way, who believe certain things is not the failing of the messenger nor the Originator of the message. The messenger is being obedient and giving the message given. The Originator's message is always perfect.
If we choose to hear it, there is a HUGE message about judging and being rebelious enough to tell God how you will only hear Him in a certain way.
Ok, let the beating begin! LOL!!! But just at least promise you will think about it first........
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Actually Di, I just went back and read my post and low and behold I could not half understand it my self and just rattled, I think I will just wait a while to posting I must have been half asleep or ..medication is really hard on me.
But getting back to my point I was trying to get across is that DS is smart enough to use and program all the right stuff that conservative people want to see and hear like myself and therefore they keep sending him money thinking all is well but it is obvious of where it goes as it shows -but most do not follow or even know that most of the corruption is going on behind the scenes. Then the other point I was trying to make is that DS does the talk but not the walk. Cant believe how I posted, sorry.
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I agree with you, princessdi.
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Actually to you both that agree, I totally believe we are given a brain that discerns what we can see and hear to make decisions what forms the appearances of evil. And that is exactly what this Advent Talk is doing posting what people hear and see right?. Now my posts were looking at that documents and looking at the assets and "watching the :horse: eat all the hay. So therefore like the rest of you the "appearances" are not good. Now no one can judge the heart other then the fact Biblically it states their objects are where the heart is.
Now another fact of the matter is this. If one cannot discern what is wrong and what is right and act upon it I really do not have much hope for that person to enter the gates because they are mindless of what they are involved in and cannot make a choice by lack of discerment.
Judgement word is your opinion of my posts that makes you doing exactly what you are accusing me of. My thing is that I worry about every single soul that will be lost and the horror they will feel is so sad that one can hardly endure for human suffering. What I have been posting in silly references is that there are people out there that let sleeping dogs lay and could care less hiding behind not offending the devils work and change all that the Holy Spirit gave for a last message so that people would not be lost. So think what you like about me judging which I am not but I see great lack of discernment with in the church for the gain of money and lack of discipline in what is happening. So this affect will soon be made more and more public for what?? Of course -for the discernment to the public to react. (Shall the public not judge over this? Hmm fat chance its coming) God is the Judge of the heart and knows the beginning to the end of each and everyone and some we will be greatly surprised but I hope he sure helps those that do not use their ability for discernment and will only follow their own inclinations of others and of texts out of context. When you have discernment you will always get protestors....and you know what that word means (smile) Too bad that you must not have heard a lot of the sermons that are on music lately...It was a lot heavior then what I said. But you see it is a total matter of discernment to compare with Spirit of P. and then another to not and argue points against it from the lackness of ones own desires and likes.
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The church no longer needs 3ABN. 3ABN did not provide the crew for broadcasting the General Conference Session last summer although they had (to my knowledge) provided the crew for the previous five sessions.
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There is a simple answer to this less than complex question:
Absolutely NOT...NO!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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There is a simple answer to this less than complex question:
Absolutely NOT...NO!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Thank you.