Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Artiste on February 03, 2012, 08:46:44 PM
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February 11, 2012, President Ted Wilson will be speaking in Puerto Rico, broadcast on 3ABN and 3ABN Latino.
From 3ABN's website, along with a front page photo of Elder Wilson preaching:
“Danny Shelton and I share the belief that Elder Ted Wilson was chosen by God to lead our church at this critical time in the history of our world,” says 3ABN president, Jim Gilley. “Our entire network is committed to supporting him as he leads God’s remnant people, especially in revival and reformation.”
We are happy that Danny Shelton and Jim Gilley endorse President Ted Wilson so enthusiastically...
Are the sentiments mutual?
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I think we should conclude from Jim Gilley's remarks that 3ABN has decidedly committed itself to revival and reformation, which of course includes abandoning deception, coverup of pedophilia, kickback schemes, private inurement, and abuse of power, as well as full restitution wherever possible.
Feel free to call 3ABN and confirm that Jim Gilley's announcement means exactly that.
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How will 3ABN's use of donors' money to fight present and future lawsuits related to pedophilia coverup relate to their promotion of revival and reformation?
Or do they have some other means of financing lawsuit defense?
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How will 3ABN's use of donors' money to fight present and future lawsuits related to pedophilia coverup relate to their promotion of revival and reformation?
Or do they have some other means of financing lawsuit defense?
Really?!? "present and future lawsuits"? There is only Alex's lawsuit. Despite all the Pickle/Joy/Linda fervor there are no others and it's been years now... And do you expect a self supporting ministry to get money to defend themselves from anyone but donors? Where else would they get money from? Who do you and all your money hungry cohorts expect them to get money from, if not from the donors?
I don't expect an answer here as the most I have ever seen from you in reply is a pathetic and plaintive plea to Pickle or Joy asking "Is this true?", but I have to ask this anyway.
When Alex loses his lawsuit - and he will- (ASK ME WHY) what will 3ABN supporters and the Adventist world in general think of you and your fellow false accusers of the brethren? Have you ever set aside your one-sided, bias, partiality and judgmental-ism and really considered that? or how your mission may be perceived by others? IMO, you need to...
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And do you expect a self supporting ministry to get money to defend themselves from anyone but donors? Where else would they get money from?
I expect 3ABN to get money from Danny's making restitution for all the siphoning of funds he did over the years.
When Alex loses his lawsuit - and he will- (ASK ME WHY) what will 3ABN supporters and the Adventist world in general think of you and your fellow false accusers of the brethren?
Which accusation did you think was false? Please be specific.
As far as Alex's allegations against Tommy go, do not that Tommy pled guilty to those in July 2010. As a minister of the gospel he knows he must always and only tell the truth, and thus when he tried to convince the judge that he was remorseful for molesting Alex, we should be able to conclude that he wasn't trying to deceive the judge.
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Really?!? "present and future lawsuits"? There is only Alex's lawsuit. Despite all the Pickle/Joy/Linda fervor there are no others and it's been years now... And do you expect a self supporting ministry to get money to defend themselves from anyone but donors? Where else would they get money from? Who do you and all your money hungry cohorts expect them to get money from, if not from the donors?
Nosir, aren't Bob and Gailon stil filing motions, etc that require the services of an attorney for 3ABN? There maybe no new lawsuits, but I believe that is some residual filings from the old ones to keep the attorneys somewhat busy.
About using donor money. From his own pocket/salary/income if it for things like his divorce. His midlife crisis, his dime. However, for suits such as Alex's, it will have to come from donors was that is where 3ABN gets their funds. Also for Bob and Gailon's action because it was maintained that their sites, etc. were damaging to 3ABN. I can also see the frustration as it was Danny who brought his brother on to be an employee at 3ABN and it was Danny messy the divorce that caused all the trouble to begin with, but that's business............ So basically, as far as I am concerned, Nosir, it's a split decision......Agree to a point.
I don't expect an answer here as the most I have ever seen from you in reply is a pathetic and plaintive plea to Pickle or Joy asking "Is this true?", but I have to ask this anyway.
When Alex loses his lawsuit - and he will- (ASK ME WHY) what will 3ABN supporters and the Adventist world in general think of you and your fellow false accusers of the brethren? Have you ever set aside your one-sided, bias, partiality and judgmental-ism and really considered that? or how your mission may be perceived by others? IMO, you need to...
Nosir, I am having a bit of trouble with this one. This is not the first, but second time TS has plead guilty. Now you all wanted to say it was because of his health, etc. before, but pleading guilty is pleading guilty. You don't do so unless you are guilty, especially twice.
Gregory, Snoopy, somebody more knowledgeable than I, please tell me if this guilty plea in the criminal case will make the civil case a slam dunk.........I can even see if it makes TS' portion a slam dunk and not 3ABN's...I am curious about that, though.
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PrincisDi asked:
Gregory, Snoopy, somebody more knowledgeable than I, please tell me if this guilty plea in the criminal case will make the civil case a slam dunk.........I can even see if it makes TS' portion a slam dunk and not 3ABN's...I am curious about that, though.
In my answer, I am not differing between AW and DT. This might be a factor, but I am not considering it.
I do not know if the Alford Plea that TS made is admissable in the civil action that is being taken.
Here is where I think it maybe of interest: In virginia, an Alford Plea is a statement by both the defenant who pleads the Alford Plea and the judge who accepts it that the evidence againsst the defendant is probably enough to convict if it went to trial. To me, that sounds like enough evidence to result in a civil verdict, which it less than the evidence required for a criminal conviction. If that evidence exists, as both TS and the judge seems to say it exists, then that evidence is available for a civil trial. So, from that perspective, the Alford Plea sugggests to me that the likelylhood of a civil juddgement against TS &/or 3-ABN is increased. However, it could be that the judgement would only be against TS and not 3-ABN. I am not certain that such is likely, but, it could be.
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Nosir, aren't Bob and Gailon stil filing motions, etc that require the services of an attorney for 3ABN? There maybe no new lawsuits, but I believe that is some residual filings from the old ones to keep the attorneys somewhat busy.
Di, Bob and Gailon are no longer filing motions in their case as the Supreme Court denied their request to hear it. There is no where else to go. That lawsuit is over.
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Ok so after reading up on the Alford Plea, this is also what I was thinking, because judge and defendant by accepting this plea admit to there being enough evidence to convice in a trail. Also, that information would be available to the civil court.
Here is where I think it maybe of interest: In virginia, an Alford Plea is a statement by both the defenant who pleads the Alford Plea and the judge who accepts it that the evidence againsst the defendant is probably enough to convict if it went to trial. To me, that sounds like enough evidence to result in a civil verdict, which it less than the evidence required for a criminal conviction. If that evidence exists, as both TS and the judge seems to say it exists, then that evidence is available for a civil trial. So, from that perspective, the Alford Plea sugggests to me that the likelylhood of a civil juddgement against TS &/or 3-ABN is increased. However, it could be that the judgement would only be against TS and not 3-ABN. I am not certain that such is likely, but, it could be.
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Thanks Snoopy. i don't check here that often so I missed that.
Di, Bob and Gailon are no longer filing motions in their case as the Supreme Court denied their request to hear it. There is no where else to go. That lawsuit is over.
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From his own pocket/salary/income if it for things like his divorce. His midlife crisis, his dime.
Di, how do we know that? How do we know that Danny didn't have 3ABN foot the bill for his divorce?
Remember how the agreement with 3ABN muzzled Linda from being able to say anything negative about Danny? And that before Linda could defend herself at her own church trial, she would have had to return the payments she got from 3ABN? That clearly was a divorce benefit for Danny that was paid for by 3ABN.
And don't forget how apparently Danny sued us as an individual and let 3ABN pay all the bills. In reality, Danny should have paid half the cost of suing us, which in 2007 and 2008 alone would have been well over $600,000 dollars as his share of the costs. (If his paying a third of the costs rather than a half would have been more fair, then his portion would have still been over $400,000.)
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I'm not saying that is how it happened, but as it should go. Because he kind of "filtered"it through the board, he conceivably may have had the ministry foot the bill, I don't put it past him.
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I browsed that Anchors of Truth show a few weeks ago and that Jim Gilley compared Danny to HMS Richards and George Vandeman. I was offended and changed the channel.
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If something goes bad, do we have to deny that it was once good?
Even a rotten apple was probably once an apple that was tasty and good to eat.
I would say that whatever good could once be attributed to Danny Shelton would also be attributed to Linda Shelton.
HMS Richards amd George VAndeman were both unique in that they had a media vision that no one else in Adventism was either able or willing to put into place. And they both succeeded.
3-ABN was birthed and came into being due to the combined efforts of both Danny and Linda to establish it. No one else in Adventism had both the vision and abilitiy to put it into place. One does not have to believe every story that is told about its founding to believe that God was with 3-ABN in the days of its birth and in later stages of its growth.
The history of the SDA Church (and Christianity) tells us that when institutions blessed by God "depart from the faith (so to speak)" God intervenes (remember Battle Creek) to either change their direction or to replace them. In either case, God is in charge and the will of God ultimately comes to pass.
I happen to believe that Hope TV came into being at a time of God's chosing and currently operates under the blessing of God. In saying this, am I saying that God is no longer involved with 3-ABN? No I am not. As to the qustion of God's ongoing involvement with 3-ABN; With the passage of time, we will know the answer to that question.
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Don't know if I can get this thought out all right or not but on a much bigger scale of History and some what similar--did not God create everything perfect and beautiful and amazing. Well, Satan came along and corrupted all in animal, agriculture and human and said in Lev.-- it was confusion!....The corruption was so bad that God had enough and then the flood.
Seems in a small scale the pattern is on going. 3abn a good thing but in Satan's realm he definitely would not let 3abn go for sure and therefore I do believe the corruption is true within. and as far as Hope channel goes I do admit some is very good but displays a lot against Aventistism that public should not think all is ok just watching and observing worldly actions that Adventist don't stand for.-- cant tell the difference in secular especially when the camera men make a habit of focusing on different details for observance. lol sometimes I think they do it purposely. But I was so disappointed that I no longer watch Hope.
If some of the best evangelist feel they can reach the world on these channels I do not think they are corrupt but use the lines that are most available, so hopefully something good will come out of "money scoundrels". God still uses this "world" even though it is now corrupt. That is about my only reasoning with the whole thing and try to have comfort in some things. But I also do not like the Churches stance on this either. So looks like we are in this till the end. But yes time will tell when God has had enough.
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Gregory... A man who dumps his wife for a younger woman is not a Godly man. A man who knowingly attempted to shield a child molestor and who did not inform the proper authorities when it was made known to him that it had allegedly occurred at the workplace that he oversaw is a person of low character. In this case, a criminal. Regardless of any accomplishments.
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We just came back from a meeting in our new music hall. It is a part of a public campaign focusing on the Bible beginning with a 6-day creation. The campaign is sponsored by the Trans European Division of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and the main speaker is Elder Janos Kovacs-Biro who now holds the same position in TED as formerly held by Mark Finley.
Today I heard one of the best sermons on living prayer that I have ever heard. There will be no meetings on Sunday, but the meetings continue Monday with an interesting surprise. Before Elder Kovacs speaks there will be a lecture by Mrs. Gudrun Ebba Olafsdottir, who has publicly accused her own father, a bishop in the Lutheran Church, of indecency and sexually molesting her since she was a young child. She revealed this before he died, as three women accused him of indecent sexual behavior when they came to him for counseling. She has gained many supporters, but also many enemies. Even her own brother, who is a Lutheran parson, has appeared on TV stating that his sister was misled into giving false information about what happened, but Gudrun remains firm in her statements. Today she is a frequent speaker and supporter of victims of pedophiles.
It takes courage of Seventh-day Adventist Church leaders to invite this "controversial" Lutheran woman to speak at a public campaign. By doing this they support her claims and let it be known to the public that the Church in this part of the World will not hide nor support pedophiles.
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I would say that whatever good could once be attributed to Danny Shelton...
HMS Richards and George VAndeman were both unique in that they had a media vision that no one else in Adventism was either able or willing to put into place.
3-ABN was birthed and came into being due to the combined efforts of both Danny and Linda to establish it. No one else in Adventism had both the vision and ability to put it into place.
One does not have to believe every story that is told about its founding to believe that God was with 3-ABN in the days of its birth and in later stages of its growth.
Gregory, I am shocked that you also would compare Danny Shelton favorably with such stalwarts of the Seventh-day Adventist Church as HMS Richards and George Vandeman.
If you actually believe what you are quoted as saying above, I invite you to read again "The Televangelist".
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Very few people are 100% evil.
I only know of one who was 100% good.
John Harvey Kellogg had a vision for and established a great institution. When it lost its way and no longer served the purpose that God intended for it to serve, God intervened and brought it to an end.
I think that 3-ABN was established in the beginning by a man and wife (Danny & Linda) who had a vision that no one else in the Adventist Chruch had at that time. I am willing to say that God led in the development of 3-ABN. I am confident that if 3-ABN departs from what God has planned for it that God is capable of accomplishing His will for it.
Yes, I can compare Danny with HMS Richards and George Vandeman as to the vision that they had for a totally new ministry that no one else had.
However, I do not compare Danny to them as to his personal lilfe and I do not compare him to them as to his personal power to proclaim the Word of God. But, no one can be everything, forever. Saul began his Kingship, blessed by God. He ended it in rebellion against God. Danny began 3-ABN with a vision of ministry. It remains to be seen how his life will end. God is evidently not through with either Danny or 3-ABN. However, if and when God is through with either, or both, God will bring it about. Of that, I am confident.
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Gregory, you want to appear like the guy who isn't judging? That's fine with us. But had it been your son or daughter that got molested, you wouldn't be typing what you type.
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If it were my son or daughter who was molested:
1) I would want justice to be served in the manner prescribed by U.S. law.
2) Upon conviction, I would want an appropriate penalty which would likely mean prison.
3) I would want society to have a greater awareness of situations that place children at risk and with that awareness to better protect them from those who would abuse.
4) I would want better healing for those abused than what society often has to offer them.
5) I would recognize that the abuser might have done wonderful things at an earlier time. Such recognition is actually a protection for children. It is an acknowledgement that even those who once did wonderful things can go bad and that wonderful things in the past does not mean that children do not have to be protected from such people and that warning signs must not be ignored even if from "wonderful" people.
In my thinking, a major problem with this issue is that warning signs are often ignored when they come from upright citizens who are pillars of society. The thinking often is: "Oh, he would never do such. You are mistaken or you lie."
Just some, not all, of my thoughts in response to you.
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O.K., come February 24, according to what peopole say, we will all know how justice has been served in the case of TS. The judge will decide on a level of punishment for him. I do not expect it to be a slap on the wrist. But, in any case, we will soon know.
Now, my question: What next? What will follow after it is all over with TS? Will it all end at this point in time for you who are reading this? Is there something positive that can come from this?
Yes, if one can focus on making society a better place where children are less at risk. Now that you know, now that you have experienced, you can work within society and your local church, whatever it might be, to make children safer.
You can let your anger, justified though it may be, destroy you, or you can focus it in a manner to contribute to the welfare to society. That is the choice of everyone reading these threads.
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I appreciate your comments, Gregory. Another example from the Bible of one who did good and then turned evil is Balaam. He was a prophet of God before he tried to curse Israel and then proposed the plan that separated them from God's protection. I have no problem with the idea that at one point DS was following God. However it appears to me that like King Saul he let pride pull him away from God.
As for your comments on what you would do if your child was molested I can speak from personal experience. I testified against the perp and helped put him in prison for 48 years. I wish he would repent and give his life to God although I doubt that he will.
. . . You can let your anger, justified though it may be, destroy you, or you can focus it in a manner to contribute to the welfare to society. That is the choice of everyone reading these threads.
A word of warning to those who will not forgive; read The Lord's Prayer, especially the part about forgiving those who have sinned against you. In that prayer you request God to forgive you the SAME WAY you forgive others. In other words if you won't forgive, then God won't forgive you and that is a horrible thought.
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. . . Before Elder Kovacs speaks there will be a lecture by Mrs. Gudrun Ebba Olafsdottir, who has publicly accused her own father, a bishop in the Lutheran Church, of indecency and sexually molesting her since she was a young child. She revealed this before he died, as three women accused him of indecent sexual behavior when they came to him for counseling. She has gained many supporters, but also many enemies. Even her own brother, who is a Lutheran parson, has appeared on TV stating that his sister was misled into giving false information about what happened, but Gudrun remains firm in her statements. Today she is a frequent speaker and supporter of victims of pedophiles.
It takes courage of Seventh-day Adventist Church leaders to invite this "controversial" Lutheran woman to speak at a public campaign. By doing this they support her claims and let it be known to the public that the Church in this part of the World will not hide nor support pedophiles.
I have read her book and seen her on TV. Gudrun gave her father the opportunity to confess before he died, but he refused, hiding himself behind his denials, like most pedophiles do. What else could he do with so many people believing he was innocent?
Where does forgiveness apply in a case like this?
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A man who knows that children were molested, yet makes efforts to hide it and to shield the perpetrator from the authorities deserves prison time. It's not a matter of forgiveness, it's a matter of right and wrong.
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Forgiveness does not have to mean release from consequences.
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Forgiveness doesn't mean a release from consequences. As I said I helped put the perp in prison where he belongs and where he still is. Forgiving someone does not imply that what they did was OK. You simply choose to let God have the rage, pain, etc. You also choose to leave that person in God's hands. You even follow Christ's example and instruction and pray for the salvation of the one who wronged you. No, it isn't easy. In fact you have to beg God to give that kind of forgiveness to you since it is not found in us sinful human beings.
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One of the worst things that one can say to a victim of abuse is: Forgive and forget.
In time, forgiveness comes. That can be part of the healing process and the road to recovery.
Youngwarrior, you have said much that is of value. Thank you for your comments.
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Forgiveness
The Lord's Prayer says,"Forgive us our sins, just as we also have forgiven those who sin against us." We are taught that we are to ask God to forgive us in the same manner as we are to forgive our debtors. We children were taught that forgiveness was what really matter, and when I was small I forgave my dad everything - even though he never asked to be forgiven. . .
My deepest longing was that my father [the bishop] would admit what he had done to me and ask my forgiveness. . . Many told that daddy would certainly regret what he had done to me. After all he loved me and would, in the final end, ask me to forgive him. . .
I kept praying fervently and sincerely for dad. Then a sincere friend told me that if I believed in a good Lord, I did not have to pray for my father, I should just let him go. This was a great relief for me.
In the New Testaments Jesus tells his disciples; “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea." . . .
Some things are of such dimensions that only God has the power to forgive.