Advent Talk
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: todd_vetter33 on November 27, 2009, 11:29:48 AM
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"And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, we will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach." Isaiah 4:1.
Seven represents: Complete, All, finished, totality; complete cycle event aka creation, 7 last plagues, 7 years of good harvest, 7 years of famine
7 churches of Revelation called out for their flaws!
Woman represents: Church
“Shall take hold of one man”; represents how all churches in the end time will claim to follow Christ.
“We will eat our own bread”; (They reject the true Bread of life-Jesus and His teachings, see John 6:51, and prefer rather to "eat" their own false doctrines and traditions see Isaiah 8:20) This can apply to the 4 bible gospels if they are not every word that proceeded from the mouth of God!
'and wear our own apparel' (they also reject the pure, white robe of Christ's righteousness and prefer their own system of works and self-righteousness.
'only let us be called by Thy name' (they desperately, despite their rebellion against God’s Laws, want to be recognized as part of Christ's church, why?)
'to take away our reproach'.
Reproach:an expression of rebuke or disapproval a cause or occasion of blame, discredit, or disgrace
The reason I ask is due to the presentation of information shared at this link which appears to reveal the mystery of Babylon. All the pages leading up to page 37 apprear to be objective truth based on the presentation of information. They appear to validate the testimony presented on page 37 and if that testimony is true, then the entire world is of the spirit of anti-christ because they are missing the baptism of the spirit (Christ) within them.
Will you help me tear this study apart to see if any lie or half truth is presented since Half truths are Satan's deception if the holy spirit inspires truth from God.
here is the link to the study.
http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf
I look forward to your help with this matter
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Something new that I just discovered; this is awesome!
http://www.bombaxo.com/didascalia.html
on the tenth of the moon, on the second day of the week, (p. 92) the priests and elders of the people assembled and came to the court of Caiaphas the high priest; and they took counsel to apprehend Jesus and put him to death: but they feared, saying: Not in the festival, lest the people make a tumult [Mt 26.3-5]; for all men were hanging upon Him [Lk 19.48], and they held him for a prophet [Mt 21.46] on account of His miracles of healing which He did among them. But Jesus was that day in the house of Simon the leper [Mt 26.6], and we together with Him, and He related to us that which was about to happen to Him. But Judas went out privily from us, thinking that he would evade our Lord, and went to the house of Caiaphas where the chief priests and elders were assembled, and said to them: What will ye give me, and I will betray Him to you when I have found an occasion? But they appointed [[188]] and gave him thirty pieces of silver [Mt 26.15]. And he said to them: 'Make ready young men armed, because of His disciples, that if He go forth by night to a desert place I may come and lead you.' And they made ready the young men and prepared to seize Him. And Judas was watching, when he might find him an occasion to betray him
If Christ died on a Friday, It would have been the second day of the week for the tenth of the moon or Ten Nissan. See page 9 of the time for example. What is clear by this testimony is that it is placing the anointing in Bethany on the Evening of the tenth day of the first month since it's in reference to the upcoming Passover/crucifixion. For the possibility of a Friday crucifixion this would have been a Sunday Night (Gregorian time). This in turn according to the book of John would have placed the triumphal entry on a Monday if it happened the day after the anointing in Bethany. The Third century Christians had a great deal of confusion based on the written testimonies that existed in their time. This tells us that the 4 bible gospels we have today are not what was available to them in their day.
All through the Didascalia Apostolorum the Bishop appears to be quoting from Matt, Mark, Luke and John yet he had this perception of understanding which is not consistent with the traditional perceptions shared by much of Christianity today.
If Christ died on a Wednesday (see page 12 of time line) what we have is a piece of historical testimonial evidence illustrating that the anointing in Bethany occurred on the Evening of the tenth day. If Christ was crucified in 30 AD, this would have been the Evening of the Sabbath just as the Gospel of the twelve presents which gives credibility that the Gospel of the twelve predates the Didascalia Apostolorum which is said to have been written in the second to Third century. The Exodus 12 prophecy is able to then illustrate that this Bishop who wrote Didascalia Apostolorum was not baring true witness regarding the events when he claimed it was the Second day of the week. Exodus 12 prophecy and the historical evidence of it’s fulfillment also highlights that the Gospel of John is not baring true witness by claiming the anointing in Bethany occurred 6 days before the Passover. It exposes that Matthew and Mark are also not baring true witness by illustrating that the anointing in Bethany occurred two days before the Passover.
Gospel of the twelve however goes on to say that the triumphal entry occurred on the First day of the week and later in testimony added in a day transition in the middle of the Cleansing of the temple testimony or the Gospel of Twelve would have portrayed Jesus Crucifixion on a Thursday.
This time line illustrates very clearly how to use OT Prophecy as a light to the confusion of Christian written recorded history.
Very Respectfully,
God Bless
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Somebody is lying somewhere.
God is in control of what is truth and He surely would not let His truly dedicated people believe a lie that would go uncovered to the end of time by the Devil.
Take a chance on that belief if you wish-- but not me! The Bible is His Word and not Man"s!! God is responsible for His own Truth to man. The devil only comes up these side slots off the track. If man fails then it would be God's fault for not getting the truth across would'nt you say??? Now the Devil has a chance to enter back in on this theory.
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Regarding what is God's word per the new covenant.
Without the spirit of God re-united to the soul that is trapped in the temporary tabernacle (flesh), there is only existence and regeneration of the soul trapped in sin and darkness. There is no rest for the wicked, but the Righteous enter into rest.
I know I was born dead for the dead know nothing and what infant when born according to the flesh knows anything? It’s said that even Jesus, who was born according to the flesh, grew in the spirit as we all must. Any infant born according to the flesh suffers through the ignorance of sin and the experience of our existence. Sin is defiance or ignorance of the wisdom of God. Adam and Eve though made pure in the beginning, were in a state of ignorance hence their desire to give into sin by seeking an unknown promised wisdom by the serpent and master of the half truth lie.
We can exist an entire life time in the flesh and never truly live. This has been the case for man having a soul, without the spirit of God, throughout the ages. Having the soul re-united to the spirit of God is the only way to enter the kingdom of heaven (born again). Until then we simply exist and stumble through history and sin which over time bares witness to the darkness we are in without the wisdom and Law of God written on our hearts.
The day of Pentecost is the anniversary of the day Israel received the Law of God from the mouth of God (hence we can only live by every word that proceeded from the mouth of God). Pentecost is also the day the First fruits of Jesus received the spirit of God (Law written on the heart in spirit), It was at that moment they were children of God just as Jesus was a child begotten of the heavenly parent after his baptism of water (repentance) and spirit, making him a faithful witness and first born from the dead Rev 1:5. Jesus said that when we die we will be like the angels in heaven, We know John the Revelator was an angel, for when he bowed to the Angel while in vision, the angel warned against this by saying they were brothers and that he should worship God (The Heavenly Parent). The John of Revelation had not yet reached physical death, yet had already died to self and was born again in new life through Christ (The anointing of Spirit).
Because the flesh is simply a vessel that carries the soul, it's for this reason that God was quick to kill the flesh in the OT. It's the soul that God is interested in bringing out of the darkness of sin. It is stated that God knew us before we were born. This strongly implies a pre-existence of the soul before our existence in our current temporary tabernacle (flesh).
We see an example of this in the bible where John the Baptist did not know he was the return of Elijah even though he was a prophet who received the Word of the Lord in the manner of the old Covenant (external voice of truth from heaven (The Word)); yet Jesus who received the New covenant internally (word of God written on the heart), implied John the Baptist was the return of Elijah after the transfiguration on the mount. Much of the concept of the regeneration for the soul was left out of the 4 bible gospels, but is still preserved in the gospel of 12 which clearly pre-dates the 4 bible gospels we have today based on the discoveries revealed by the shared study. I recommend reading this for greater understanding. We have to remember that Jesus did nothing of himself unless it was given to him from His parent who is our parent regarding the spirit of God internal and Eternal (New Covenant)
This process is the only way for all souls that have ever existed to be judged equally and have the opportunity to be born again as Jesus stated, No one enters heaven unless they are born again. We know John the Baptist was beheaded prior to Pentecost when the first fruits (144,000) were born again and entered into the kingdom to be angels (messengers of God) speaking the good news of the Gospel (anointing of spirit/resurrection of the sons and daughters of Man) that they received. It's for this reason that they too like Jesus could heal with a word and since they were of the truth, could hear God's voice. With out the regeneration of the soul, the soul of John the Baptist who was the return of Elijah would never see the kingdom of heaven.
John the Baptist who was the return of the soul that was also in Elijah, would have either been re-generated to a new tabernacle of flesh to later in history experience the born again process, or was one of many who came back from the grave on the day of Jesus physical resurrection to meet with the apostles during the feast of weeks in Galilee in preparation for the day of Pentecost. John the Baptist having a pure body through repentance and able to communicate with God the parent before meeting Jesus prior to his baptism of water and spirit, would have likely been brought back from the dead at the physical resurrection since his temple (body) was a pure temple through the doctrine of Repentance that both He and Jesus taught by direction of the heavenly parent. Only Jesus the first born from the dead was at the time of Pentecost, able to baptize with the Fire (Spirit of God).
We know that that the Apostles after their Baptism of Spirit were also able to baptize with the Holy Spirit if the bible in its current state is telling the truth of the matter. Jesus did state that we would do all that He did and more. If this is so, then they too were of the Way, the Truth and the Life in every way that Jesus was. Born dead according to the Flesh in sin, then made alive through repentance by the wisdom of the Law and keeping that which is good. This allowed them to be re-connected with the spirit of God (spiritual re-birth).
It's not until Acts 11 that we see the Pagans (Hellenists) of Antioch who first called themselves Christians due to separating doctrinally from The Way, the Truth, and The life begin calling themselves Christians. A Prophet from Jerusalem (Agabus) who was part of the The Way Jesus started, went to meet the Christians of Antioch and upon meeting them, he prophesied a famine through out all the world. Could he have been talking about a spiritual Famine (men lacking the spirit of God) even though they (the Christians) recorded that it was in reference to a physical famine? The Christian who wanted to spread a Gospel they could not fully comprehend and not led by the spirit, would be the many Anti-Christ deceivers talked about by the apostle John. We have their written recordings in our bible today since the apostles would have taught what God was giving them in their ear to speak. They could hear God's voice and were living examples of the Way, Truth, and Life. (A living gospel of truth vs. the written half truths we received on paper which clearly suffered corruption by the speculations of our Christian forefathers at the pen of gentile scribes).
We are spiritual descendants of the Christians who separated from the Way, Truth, and Life. We are only of The Way as the apostles were, if we are born again.
This is the love of God, To learn how to love God by walking in His WAY, Truth (with out Error) and Life (Free from Sin), before physical death of the flesh so that our flesh and soul unified to the spirit of God, A purified temple by repentance and spirit, can enter into rest for the resurrection on the last day.
The sacrifice of Christ is to be our sacrifice in every way, He resisted sin through repentance and so should we just as the Apostles who followed His example. It's for this reason that the animal sacrifices could be abolished. We must die to self to save a brother.
Until the born again process occurs for me, this is merely a speculation built on the fragments of recorded history that have defined my perceptions to this understanding.
Very respectfully,
God Bless
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Somebody is lying somewhere.
God is in control of what is truth and He surely would not let His truly dedicated people believe a lie that would go uncovered to the end of time by the Devil.
Take a chance on that belief if you wish-- but not me! The Bible is His Word and not Man"s!! God is responsible for His own Truth to man. The devil only comes up these side slots off the track. If man fails then it would be God's fault for not getting the truth across would'nt you say??? Now the Devil has a chance to enter back in on this theory.
If a lie can be found in the study, Please illustrate this with greater Historical evidence of Prophecy fulfillment so that truth can be established. Based on this study being shared, it could be said that Calling the bible God's word is a speculation of Man that causes man to make a book their God instead of seeking the voice of truth that those of the truth should receive as all the prophets of old who received the truth from God. Jesus did say those of the truth would hear His voice, not read the written recordings of the men who did. The men who relied on the written recordings were the men reading about the rightous men of the past before them who were of the truth and could hear God's voice. Are we today any different than them? Are Christians telling a lie when they make a living word (voice of truth from heaven) a book?
We can see by the example of written historical recordings that Samuel who became a prophet studied the written recordings and worked in the temple for Eli, For several years this happend and yet it goes on to say that he did not yet know the word of the Lord. It was not until the Word of the Lord Spoke to him that he knew the Word of the Lord. Do we know the word of the lord because we carry a bible that changes with every new version even when the bible says the Word of the Lord does not change and is Solid?
How can we take the gospel to the world with a word (the Bible) that changes with every new version and is not solid?
To say the bible is the word of God makes God look like a llar and gives men who were not raised in this tradition of belief a reason to think your insane and cannot see truth from error. I only say this from experience from the Ex-athiest perspective due to the many denominations that build on the same book yet present different fables regarding the plan of salvation and cannot make a solid case for God due to lacking the promises Jesus made regarding the men who would be a part of his Church. Jesus performed many miracles and said that his true followers would be able to do all that he did and more. Do you know of any Christian with this ability who calls the bible God's word?
I don't say this to be rude, but apeal to common sense based on the facts that the evidence that Christian history presents. I do thank you for your response.
Very repectfully
God Bless
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Because the flesh is simply a vessel that carries the soul, it's for this reason that God was quick to kill the flesh in the OT. It's the soul that God is interested in bringing out of the darkness of sin. It is stated that God knew us before we were born. This strongly implies a pre-existence of the soul before our existence in our current temporary tabernacle (flesh).
Whoa, where are you coming from? The Bible does not imply that we had a soul before we were born. We do have to be awake and watch out for wolves in lambs clothing.
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Todd
This process is the only way for all souls that have ever existed to be judged equally and have the opportunity to be born again as Jesus stated, No one enters heaven unless they are born again. We know John the Baptist was beheaded prior to Pentecost when the first fruits (144,000) were born again and entered into the kingdom to be angels (messengers of God) speaking the good news of the Gospel (anointing of spirit/resurrection of the sons and daughters of Man) that they received. It's for this reason that they too like Jesus could heal with a word and since they were of the truth, could hear God's voice. With out the regeneration of the soul, the soul of John the Baptist who was the return of Elijah would never see the kingdom of heaven.
I have spot read several places to read one mans opinions and thoughts as he wrote. It is evident that most I read does not come to circle with rest of Bibical references. The above is one place in particular. I was also reading about the widow rules. and yet can go into Proverbs and show discrepancies.
Lets just look at some common sense on the above quote.
The (144,000) issue this person presents is not a theory that can come circle with other references.
One must find a place for scripture where there is special Resurrection for those who followed the lamb and all their works as messengers do follow them. They will be in a "living state" at the (coming). So that would fit in. This theory you present cannot conclude this as the 144,000 are now angels!!
First of all John was in vision of (future) for his presentation and not for the past presentation. The (144,000) was addressed to present future messengers in latter day time not past or Bibical time for truth to come to remembrance or finalized in knowing exact truth. As all in the History to come as you state was almost atheist in not knowing truth anymore. John did not know future names of tribes in what part of new modern day countries that they would be scattered. So John wrote it simple and called it the 12 tribes so all would be included for modern day. IF you look at scripture it was "sealed" or promised at that time by God to John for future latter day events that would be brought to completion for the truth of "message" to God's latterday. "second fruits". Look at the scripture in REV 14. It says "were sealed" that is past tense (planned for future but sealed for a way of salvation in latter day made in John's day). Also at that time when messengers were to start their work was a time in sequence of prophecy when the 4 winds were held before God destroyed the earth at the last coming. There was still a message to be given. It was the 3rd Angels message for finality.!! Nowhere in your texts is this addressed, so therefore when all is not accounted for in circle can you believe this theory. All is complete in a "golden thread" throughout and of course no man is capable of doing this except but by the HOLY SPIRIT and HIS use of man or "messengers". Yes, his messengers are in His knowledge and His Care and who "were appointed". Blessed are those that their works do follow them. (as they are laid to rest) now but will be raised in special Resurrection.
The firstfruits yes are in heaven, but they were human before they went and are human now. Angels are Angels. I do not believe that God is going to make us into something we are not other then perfection at His coming of which he already created in us. God gave man the duty or because of the "Love of God" to present it or preach to all Nations. Angels have their jobs to do but not this one....... They sound the trumpets! and other jobs.
Man can find any answer he connects to suit his own gratification and justifications. Man can find the most complicated intriguing issues that the Devil can instigate into the most complicated confusion to wrack ones mind into doubt. This is doubt of Holy Scripture.
In some places in this study I cannot determine if this is Mormon (because of the soul application) or Catholic! But it is evident that it is not of Holy Spirit. IF you have complete believe in this or venture into this ask yourself if all scripture is opened to your heart in a "golden unbroken" Thread. You will come across with an enlightening of words without being able to describe from knowing truth. One can also study into oblivion with no road back as the mind was open to looking for one way to find doubt. I can state that if you are looking for it ..doubt you will find . It is the greatest reward for the devil as he is the best spinner of all truth. Did you not recognize it?????? I know that God will not let us all down that are meek, humble and take his word in "Simplicity". Of course I have not read all your study or literature, but what I have was mind boggling to know which way to go if I was a widow.... with all that I would not know what I should do but sit and count over and over some beads for my own salvation. I am dense from there on out on if this is for real? It seems like self inflictions. I do believe though that woman should not be the preachers but some can be teachers unless direct calling. Woman have more then enough to do for God's work as to get behind the pulpit. as some men just are not cut out to do woman's work. I wish priorities could get straight. Then again as I read your study it is also a no no for woman to be behind the pulpit. What Happened??? in this presented religion!!
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Todd,
One thing is very true that you state. Different versions of Bibles do misinform truth. Most do not detect and more light does not open for them. Another trick of the devil using man's interpretations. Our own denomination does it and I do not like it and consider that is all the further some of our Evangelist can go. Even though EGW did some study of that she does also warn of it. But who now a days take that warning?? In doing so one descreption is keeping the Trinity in darkness and the separate works of the Godhead in applications that open up great truths to know our Father even better.
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Because the flesh is simply a vessel that carries the soul, it's for this reason that God was quick to kill the flesh in the OT. It's the soul that God is interested in bringing out of the darkness of sin. It is stated that God knew us before we were born. This strongly implies a pre-existence of the soul before our existence in our current temporary tabernacle (flesh).
Whoa, where are you coming from? The Bible does not imply that we had a soul before we were born. We do have to be awake and watch out for wolves in lambs clothing.
Well put, Christine.
Todd, if this belief - that man is essentially a spirit with a soul that exists/ed before and after his life in the flesh - forms an essential part of your beliefs, I predict you will not find many on this board in sympathy with those beliefs.
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In fact that seems to be the belief of the Mormon about the soul. I had a Mormon explain to me that exact theory and that we were now living our 2nd chance of trial in the flesh. Now Todd, think about this. Only God and for short term the devil prevails with some power that is allowed till his end of days--can only have the ability to be visible or invisible. We all are not incarnate as this theory would have to imply nor do we have that power. That phrase simply means we would be created as he visioned us. If I was to create something I surely would have given it a thought how it would be. I do that with designing or making clothes, or simply creating something new in recipe.
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Agreed, Tinka. As I understand the Mormon beliefs,they say that each of us has an eternal
spirit that needs to live for a time in the flesh. One Mormon once told me that still born babies
represent those who only need to acquire a body, but do not have to prove themselves living in the flesh on
earth. I also remember hearing from the same person that when 'quickening' occurs - when the mother first
feels the baby move - is when the spirit enters the baby's body.
(That is as I remember it, I heard that many years ago and I have not researched the matter.)
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That basically is what they proclaim and it is so far fetched from most portestants in fact so obsurb that I feel that is why Romney could not make it. The people looking at all his money and prestige could not venture into that. If he can't understand Bible better then that how could he run a country. If you want to watch intertainment the BYU is the place to watch on tv. They do not have anything but prestige in all things and flaunt it. As you noticed during the elections. Yep there good but good for what?? That also is why I watch intensly at how our programming is going. and while on the subject I do want to mention one thing that was on Hope channel.
I again thought I would turn the tv on while sewing. Right at that moment a 93 year old couple named Ray and Oneida came on the reunion program. They were going to sing and play piano. Never heard of them. My attention was taken and laid my sewing down...because all inspiration broke loose to tears again of happiness and joy that they sang there melody of Jesus and the Golden Bells. It was quite unbelievable. Never, Never on the Gaither hour would you have this most sincere and blessed thing happen before your eyes. Then as I could not stop my bursting heart and tears I continued to watch. It seemed at this particular programming a complete quiteness, refined, immaculate flow of Holy Spirit. All charasmatic movement was quited except for two people. John Loma and the red haired woman they showed. All the rest were dressed so modestly appealing and finally inspiration was evident. Even the music was toned into melody with no show of performing. There was just serene feeling all in unity. Finally I was so given a blessing and was so thankful as I got that old time feeling. It was not lost and I think that most on their felt it too. Mr. and Mrs. (Turner, I think that was the name) is something that no one else has and what an inspiration the Lord gave us all to watch them. They should be on National tv as they top any inspiration. Nothing has ever been that I enjoyed more then those two. I am anxious to see them again.
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Please expand upon this statement, Tinka. I am not sure what you mean oor on who's interpretation we can depend. When it all comes down to it, isn't that all we have......man's interpretation? i would think that we would have to test/determine that the man(or woman) was indeed lead by the Holy Spirit before accepting their "interpretation". However, I might be mistaken. So please clarify. thanks!
Todd,
One thing is very true that you state. Different versions of Bibles do misinform truth. Most do not detect and more light does not open for them. Another trick of the devil using man's interpretations. Our own denomination does it and I do not like it and consider that is all the further some of our Evangelist can go. Even though EGW did some study of that she does also warn of it. But who now a days take that warning?? In doing so one descreption is keeping the Trinity in darkness and the separate works of the Godhead in applications that open up great truths to know our Father even better.
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Princess,
The old standard King James version is about the best standard to go by. all these later day translations and New versions do not hold correct meaning in many places. When just a lay person reads through one and then the others, you can pick up confusion almost immediately. But that is if you are really familiar with the King James old version. EGW did read other version and came upon the same thing in discrepancies. I would have to go into EGW Library on my computer in her writings if you have not read that yet. Of course some of the translations really are far out to appease lower English slangs and ways of lower speech. I perfer the old English to bring up my speech as it is simple an beautiful and easy to follow references, but I also have the Greek and Hebrew versions as I relate it to the SDA commentary's. Too me the new age versions are so bad that when people read out loud from them you can tell the opinion's of man interpetation is now no longer inspired.
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Tinka, those were some of the very arguments used by the church for centuries to keep the Bible only in Latin. They did not want it to be put into the languages of the common people, and when it was, they said it was inaccurate. When it was finally accepted by the church, there remained (and still remain) hold-outs who vehemently held that nothing but the Latin vulgate as translated in the earliest days of Christianity could be trusted as the true word of God.
Latin is now a dead language, and so is 16th century king's English.
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Jesus spoke to the lower classes of uneducated people in their own vernacular and colloquialisms. He brought his teachings down to their level.
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Amen! As I remember Jesus was asked why He spoke to the people in stories/parables/common terms. Isn't He supposed to be our example? Not to mention that the KJV has issues all it's own, beginning with not being the first translation for either OT or NT.............and that in many places accuracy was sacrificed for more poetic speech.........and then there is the Clear Word.............sigh......
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I added much to this discovery. I tried to post this in it's own thread but it was locked. So here it is with further information for you to test it for truth. I recomend referencing the time line at the end of this for visual reference. This evidence will shake the foundation of the Christian world if they belive the bible is the word of God. If Prophecy is the word of God, We need to have it, hear it and speak it.
Link Ref for Bishop testimony from Prior to 3rd and 4th Century councils.
http://www.bombaxo.com/didascalia.html
"on the tenth of the moon, on the second day of the week, (p. 92) the priests and elders of the people assembled and came to the court of Caiaphas the high priest; and they took counsel to apprehend Jesus and put him to death: but they feared, saying: Not in the festival, lest the people make a tumult [Mt 26.3-5]; for all men were hanging upon Him [Lk 19.48], and they held him for a prophet [Mt 21.46] on account of His miracles of healing which He did among them. But Jesus was that day in the house of Simon the leper [Mt 26.6], and we together with Him, and He related to us that which was about to happen to Him. But Judas went out privily from us, thinking that he would evade our Lord, and went to the house of Caiaphas where the chief priests and elders were assembled, and said to them: What will ye give me, and I will betray Him to you when I have found an occasion? But they appointed [[188]] and gave him thirty pieces of silver [Mt 26.15]. And he said to them: 'Make ready young men armed, because of His disciples, that if He go forth by night to a desert place I may come and lead you.' And they made ready the young men and prepared to seize Him. And Judas was watching, when he might find him an occasion to betray him."
If Christ died on a Friday in the Year of His Crucifixion, The testimony as illustrated above regarding the anointing in Bethany would have taken place on the second day of the week for the tenth of the moon or Ten Nissan. See page 9 of the time line that is link referenced at the end of this examination for example. What is clear by this testimony is that it is placing the anointing in Bethany on the Evening of the tenth day of the first month since it's in reference to the upcoming Passover/crucifixion. For the possibility of a Friday crucifixion this would have been a Sunday Night (Gregorian time). This in turn according to the book of John would have placed the triumphal entry on a Monday if it happened the day after the anointing in Bethany. This illustrates that the Palm Sunday tradition had not yet been established by the 3rd century councils that defined the tenet view. The Third century Christians had a great deal of confusion based on the written testimonies that existed in their time.
All through the Didascalia Apostolorum the Bishop appears to be quoting from Matt, Mark, Luke and John yet he had this perception of understanding which is very different and not consistent with the traditional perceptions shared by much of Christianity today who build their understanding on what should be the same gospels if they never changed by the hand of scribes during the first three centuries where no solid accountability can be given or verified.
If Christ died on a Wednesday in 30 AD, (see page 12 of time line) what we have is a piece of historical testimonial evidence corroborating that the anointing in Bethany occurred on the evening of the tenth day of the first month, (Ten Nissan). If Christ was crucified in 30 AD, the anointing in Bethany would have been the Evening of the Sabbath just as the Gospel of the twelve presents which gives credibility that the Gospel of the twelve predates the Didascalia Apostolorum which is said to have been written in the second to Third century prior to the 3rd and 4th century councils. The four day prophecy of Exodus 12 is able to then illustrate that this Bishop who wrote Didascalia Apostolorum was not baring solid true witness regarding the illustrated events when he claimed it was the Second day of the week. Exodus 12 prophecy and the historical evidence of its fulfillment also highlights that the Gospel of John is not baring true witness by claiming the anointing in Bethany occurred 6 days before the Passover. It exposes that Matthew and Mark are also not baring true witness by illustrating that the anointing in Bethany occurred two days before the Passover.
The Gospel of the twelve, though placing the anointing in Bethany with the correct perception of time for when the event occurred (Evening of the Sabbath) appears to skip the day time period for the event that would have occurred on the Sabbath day following the anointing in Bethany by stating that the triumphal entry occurred on the First day of the week. Later in the Gospel of twelve’s testimony of events that followed up to the Crucifixion, someone from our Christian past added in a day transition in the middle of the Cleansing of the Temple testimony, otherwise the Gospel of Twelve would have portrayed Jesus Crucifixion on a Thursday.
What I find most interesting is that the bishop appears to be using the book of Matthew as it appeared in His day (specifically chapter 26 as it appears in our day) to explain his perception of understanding. The oldest know copies of the canonized gospels can only be allegedly dateable to the 3rd to 4th century. Chapter 26 of Matthew as it appears to us today begins with a time marker by stating it was Two days before the Passover, (12 Nissan) then illustrates the same events that the bishop was trying to portray occurring two days earlier than the gospels of Matt and Mark currently portray. If the Gospel of Matthew and Mark which state a uniform perception of time for these events were never changed or altered by Scribes in the third or fourth century, this Bishop, whose testimony is said to predate the oldest preserved Christian gospel texts would not be presenting this perception of understanding which goes very contrary to the perception of time presented by our bibles gospels today regarding the anointing in Bethany event. This is clear evidence that the bible gospels we have today are not what were available to the Third century Christian prior to the 3rd and 4th century councils.
One thing that is very clear is that this man is a man of intelligence and reason who was familiar with the Jewish concept of time regarding an evening and morning making a day. It’s very clear that he inherited written lies which caused him to build an understanding on lies. We today are an end result of this which gives us evidence of this below Jeremiah prophecy in fulfillment since many make the bible the Word of God instead of the voice of truth that those of the truth should hear as was spoken by Jesus to Pilate.
Jeremiah 16: 19-20
19 O LORD, my strength and my fortress, My refuge in the day of affliction, The Gentiles shall come to You From the ends of the earth and say, “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, Worthlessness and unprofitable things.” 20 Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?
The time line at the below link illustrates very clearly how to use OT Prophecy as a light to the confusion of Christian written recorded history. See pages 9 and 12 in comparison to the Bishops testimony. The mystery of Babylon is soon to be solved when the born again process (the true gospel of the Christ) begins being taken to the world in truth through the Spirit that gives life, not the letter which kills. 2 Corinthians 3:4-6
It can be seen by the words of a wise man why many Christian denominations exist that do not agree with one another regarding doctrine and bible interpretation.
Proverbs 6:19
A false witnesses who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren.
dis•cord: (d s kôrd ) n.. 1. a. Lack of agreement among persons, groups, or things. b. Tension or strife resulting from a lack of agreement; dissension.
For unity in Christ and solid truth, one must speak the truth about God, from God, if they are to bare good fruit and deliver souls.
Proverbs 14:25
A true witness delivers souls, But a deceitful witness speaks lies.
Lies can keep us in darkness even if we do not perceive them to be lies. There is a sin offering in the Law of Moses for the person who discovers he has sinned in ignorance which tells us sin in ignorance will still result in death. The only way to bare true witness of God is to be led by the spirit of God. These are the Sons and Daughters of God. Romans 8:14
http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf
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The history of the Bible, and its evolution, is fascinating. Countless thousands of deaths have been effected in the argument over versions, translations, and books. In fact, Emperor Constantine grew so sick of the fighting and killing between Christians in this matter that he convened the Council of Nicea and ordered the Bishops to remain in conclave until they arrived at mutual agreement on the whole matter, and that is how the compilation called The Holy Bible, as we know it, was invented. The Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek versions of the books were translated into Latin, and for over 1,000 years that version was followed and vehemently protected, until some crazy rebels decided to create versions in the vernacular of the common people of the day. The beauty and poetry of the Latin was lost, and most scholars of the day felt that the Bible had been demeaned. 400 years later, the Protestant revolution continues, the Bible is translated into current vernacular, and the people who would have been the loudest voices in trying to stop the King James version from publication in the common language of that day, are the loudest in trying to stop the continued translation of Scripture into the language of the common people of today.
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It was around the time that the bible was solidified in pen and ink that the Christians and people of Europe slipped into the darkest hours of mankind. Didn't the holy spirit bring the wisdom and truth of God? Why then is the Christian world divided and in the darkness of denominational confusion when built on the bible? Is the bible the solid Rock Christ promised us when he said to build on the solid Rock? Or do men make the bible God?
Just a thought to ponder.
Very respectfully
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Interesting points Todd, but history shows us times of division are often times of enlightenment. It is when everyone marches to the same beat that humanity falls into its darkest times. Diversity of thought keeps the wheels of progress turning, and prevents clean flowing streams from becoming stagnant theological swamps.
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Todd,
Will make this simple, either you are not Adventist and pushing the tricks of the Catholic church on this forum or just plain of the devil. This will only rock the ignorant that have not stablized in the truth. We were warned that many will be lost as they buy into these sort of deceivements.
Do you think God would play this trick on His followers?? No way bub! Your headed down wrong paths. This is just signs of the acutal visions that were shown portraying. and to tell you the truth this is not the only tricks. The catholics have their imaginary cloth that covered Jesus's face too. Lets see should one believe that too??? all their sacred idols are truth too??? Justification of all that I am sure you can pick up and read somewhere. God is my God and His word is not changeable! So you want to convince it is changeable? God left us with the prince of this world with no way of knowing truth? Get behind and go confuse the Catholics. That just might bring them to light when they finally realize they have been barnsided. Your doubt again will find you still in doubt with shifting sand under your feet.
IF your Adventist you better read about this very thing going on. In fact most Adventist are only that because of 7th day truth and venture in to nothing else to become or wonder about anytng more then that. If you cannot believe in latter day messenger or (His prophets) how in the world can you believe and do the will of Jesus and His testamonies. The devil believes in all this too. In fact the more liberal a person seems or comes across in self opinions comes from lack of reading true doctrine. They are too busy giving justifications.
and George....I am speaking of new translations that are twisting and leaving out truth that is quite different then the King James (if that is all we have left to go by)!!!! all in the name of suiting this latter day people with slang. It is a disgrace to hear the Bible in slang. I understand fully what happened in early times and how all was preserved but this is a bunch of justification for junk. I am pretty upset that is is going on here and no one speaking up to this. This is from one extreme to another. I have a book of all the changes made in all versions. so when you can't except that ----one can go by what fancys their own self. King James is the best to not get confused like what is going on here right now.
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The same was said of Tindale, Luther, and the many others who took the traditionally accepted version that had to be interpreted for the people by theologians, and put it in the modern "slang." As they said back then, "original meaning is lost," "the beauty and poetry is lost," "meaning is changed..." From the Aramaic and Greek, there is much that is lost in the KJV. From the Hebrew, the KJV translation is very different. There is much that cannot be properly translated into English and keep everything that was put into the original. Also, much of what was written related to cultural issues and colloquialisms whose meaning were lost within mere generations of their origin. The validity and accuracy of any version of the Bible, in any language, is subjective in the context of the quarrel over versions. There is not any absolute proof shown to fully establish any version of the Bible as having true, original meaning as per accurate linguistic, cultural, and colloquial translation, as much of that was lost long before the translators came along.
That having been said, the KJV is your preference because that is what you fancy for yourself, just as others fancy various other versions. It is a matter of what one chooses to have faith in, when in cases like this there is no definitive proof to fall back on.
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Well now, Man's diversion of interpretation for translations superseeds the Inspiration, Power, Wisdom and the true Holy Word of God bestowed upon the human race?? Well ..I'll be...... So what is your religion if not sure "anything goes" where ever it flows?? A true liberal you claim and I believe it. Bet you agree on global warming too. See if you can find it in the Greek or Hewbrew. It should be there someplace.
I am disgusted with this baloney. People coming on here to change now the day of crucifixion, sabbath and a bunch of malarkey and try to speak with refined justification of words. Do you know what Holy means. It means perfection in God's sight. Not a bunch of men claiming "false" not sure, not orginal, never will know what is truth because of early mens interpetations. This is just a bunch of :rabbit: hopping down the trail..
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I don't know about the crucifixion day thing. As to global warming, the only thing constant about earth's climate is change, but I am not sure what that has to do with the King James Bible except that the northern hemisphere was experiencing a mini ice age at the time. Come to think of it, you are right! In both the Greek and Hebrew, global warming is assured where the Bible tells us that everything will be burned up and nothing will be left.
That aside, I am glad that there were those liberals like Jesus, Tindale, King James, and so forth who thought that the God's Word should be given in the common language of the common, modern people.
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So I am, George. I dont't believe I could imagine having to sit in services and have the Bible "explained" because I could not read it for myself.........
Oh yes, and more to the point of the OT. Yes, ALL churches are flawed, as God allowed flawed man to establish them. NOTHING man does or attmepts is perfect. We are being perfected/sanctified daily, but we are far from perfect.
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Good play on words, so what did you think God thought we all needed EGW for? Oh yes, not everyone believes a latter day message that "might have been given"?? Of course you all could have done the job yourselves. It has always been beyond doubt on who the justifiers are especially on here with DS the biggest of all. This really is no place for people to be to understand truth and indure the spin on the words to place this kind of doubt of the Holy Bible. Spin is what you get when you parley with the Devils helpers and from what I see they are gathering here.Evidently you did not read all the Todd business. I did and why such garbage and for what reason other then an old bitty letting down thunder for it. (Laugh) guess no one else will stand up to it as probably most all believers are not on here..anymore.
It sort of was a sarcastic remark about the global waring as You are a typical justifyer on why truth is not there. So we are all on separate individual theories of our own liking "How great thou art". Your words conclude much that you do not realize. It does not help to play them easy and refined or (cultured)??. It's all there for character and your colors are not blended.
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Tinka, this is a forum where polite debate is encouraged. You need to tone down and control the anger. Discussion and debate can be held in a civil manner without getting ugly. If you can't say it in a civil manner then don't say it at all.
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Post removed. Inappropriate content.
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Attacking a moderator warning will not be tolerated under any circumstances. You will show respect for the others on this forum, or you will not be here. Time out.