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[GRAT]

The spinning wheel is sure busy spinning round!  (maybe I'm a new Christian who was surprised to find such - did you ever think of that anyman?  wish I was as holy as you.  by the way, I did not attack her/him just asked a question - what did those letters mean to her/him)

[Bob Pickle]

Really hope anyman encourages Petunia to not defend alleged pedophiles or the cover up of allegations of child molestation.

[Sam]

Why would any of you three want to even consider that it was what Petunia meant? I have never said that in my whole life and I have never heard a SDA Christian say it, so why would one think that is what Petunia meant by those initials in a SDA forum. It could just as easily have meant oh my goodness. That is exactly what I thought it meant. Others may have too if you hadn\'t assumed it meant something so horrible. Why always look for the worst?

Petunia - What does ***** stand for?  Is that a breaking of one of the 10 commandments?  (am I the only one that bothers or is it just not important how we use the name of God?)

No GRAT. You are not the only one who noticed it. I physically \'winced\' as I read that, as it sickens me when I hear/see people take the name of the Lord in vain.

If one so blatantly breaks that commandment, what\'s to stop them from breaking others just as blatantly?

Even if it meant "Oh my goodness", that is just veganized swearing. What is the goodness of a Christian? It is God... so, what is the difference? It is wise too think before using certain "expressions", especially in writing.

OOOOHHHHH BROTHER.....

Quote from sister on BSDA

"1. Danny Shelton is a liar.
2. Danny Shelton is a thief.
3. Danny Shelton molested Linda Shelton's daughter.
4. Danny Shelton is a serial adulterer.
5. Danny Shelton is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
6. Linda Shelton did not have an affair during her marriage with Danny Shelton.
7. Danny Shelton trumped up charges against Linda Shelton in order to remove her from the ministry and divorce her.
8. The reason Danny Shelton has never produced "the evidence" is because it does not exist.

And the list goes on and on and on..."
Sister

It would be wise not to use certain expressions in writing? 

Oh wait...I forgot.....you didn't write anything that God didn't tell you to write...........

=====

Edited quoted post.

[Petunia]

For some, OMG may represent "god", but not for me. There are many things that OMG might mean.  For me, OMG = Oh My Goodness, Oh My Gosh or Oh My Gnats.

Yes, the gnats are disgusting... far better to strain them so they don't get in way of the mouthfuls of camel you are swallowing.

Petunia - What does OMG stand for?  Is that a breaking of one of the 10 commandments?  (am I the only one that bothers or is it just not important how we use the name of God?)

No GRAT. You are not the only one who noticed it. I physically 'winced' as I read that, as it sickens me when I hear/see people take the name of the Lord in vain.

If one so blatantly breaks that commandment, what's to stop them from breaking others just as blatantly?

I agree, it sickens me also to hear members on a Christian forum take the Lord's name in vain. So much for the defenders of 3ABN...

=====

Note:  I am leaving this as is for now. - Daryl Fawcett, Administrator.

[Petunia]

3.   It has been stated before that you are or were at the time of these alleged allegations a pastor. Then as a pastor it was your responsibility to contact the appropriate legal persons over and rather than 3ABN, if you were really concerned about the alleged victims.

What is your basis for saying this? Walt and Danny had a responsibility to handle this appropriately in order to safeguard 3ABN and the Illinois Conference. They instead chose to cover up or not properly investigate the allegations.

What, in your opinion, would have been the appropriate way to handle these allegations in order to safeguard 3ABN and the Illinois Conference?


Bob Pickle said:

How would calling up the cops and telling them what Danny and Walt had failed to do help matters?

Child of God did NOT ask you why you didn't call the cops and tell them that Danny and Walt had failed to do to help matters.  Child of God asked why, if you were really concerned about the alleged victims, you didn't contact the appropriate legal persons.  What drives you to twist the words of others so?

By the way I agree with what Petunia said in post #225.

Bob Pickle said:

Then I suggest you spend some time seeking the Lord and asking Him if you are really seeing things clearly. Defending those who have refused to properly deal with child molestation allegations, defending those who hire attorneys to write nasty letters to those concerned about child molestation allegations, defending those who refuse to apologize for such reprehensible behavior, and using the username Child_of_God, that sounds a bit contradictory.

Properly dealing with abuse allegations of any kind is vital.  You are obviously convinced that your manner of handling them has been appropriate.  According to what your fellow investigator, Mr. Joy, recently posted, the alleged victims don't seem to want your help any more than the former employees of the Trust Services.  Why do you suppose that is?

Did you know that every one of us, whether a sinner or not, whether measuring up to your idea of religious dogma or not, is a Child of God?  Every one of us.  Even you.  I suggest you spend some time seeking the Lord and asking Him if you are really seeing things clearly.

Your username is quite appropriate.  Needing to twist even the most straight-forward statements has certainly gotten you into a pickle.

edited to repair missing html

[GRAT]

The smelly little skunk on Bambie was named Petunia.  So is your user name appropriate?  (I'm quite sick of the I'm so holy attitude of the DS defenders and then they have to give a nasty jab at whoever they don't agree with.)

[Habanero]

The smelly little skunk on Bambie was named Petunia.  So is your user name appropriate?  (I'm quite sick of the I'm so holy attitude of the DS defenders and then they have to give a nasty jab at whoever they don't agree with.)

Awww, come on GRAT, give Petunia a break. Everyone need something to hang their soul on. For some it might be Muhammed, for others it might be Buddha, EGW, Jesus, a televangelist, an author, a singer, a pastor... and when one's soul is riding on the veracity of any person that person must be flawless and perfect in every way. You should to let Petunia enjoy her sense of fulfillment through what she has to have.

[Petunia]

The smelly little skunk on Bambie was named Petunia.  So is your user name appropriate?  (I'm quite sick of the I'm so holy attitude of the DS defenders and then they have to give a nasty jab at whoever they don't agree with.)

1. I'm not a DS defender.  I don't personally know DS.  I actually began to think that DS might be guilty of the allegations, but then Mr. Joy and Mr. Pickle began behaving in a manner not consistant with their claims of righteouness.  Then I began to see numerous places where Mr. Pickle twisted and manipulated statements to make them say thngs they clearly did not say, so I lost confidence in his information.  The flawed logic he demonstrates makes it impossible to know what is fact and what is the world according to Bob Pickle.

2. Please show me where I posted anything approaching an "I'm so holy attitude". I can certainly show you how my "*****" comment got you and others to clutch your pearls and post your own "I'm so holy attitudes".  Interesting that Bob Pickle often posts in such a manner but you don't admonish him for it.

3. Nasty jabs? Scroll up a bit and read what Mr. Bob Pickle said to Child of God about her/his username.  Nasty jab, eh?

4. My username is my name....Petunia Rathbone.  Seems rather juvenile, like something elementary school bullies would do on the playground, to make fun of my name, but it is what you folks seem to do to those who have an opinion or thoughts that are not in line with your own.

=====

Inappropriate abbreviation removed from post. - Daryl Fawcett, Administrator.

[Child_of_God]

Snoopy said, I didn\'t even bother to try to read this, as it is very difficult to follow.  Please, people - learn how to use the quotes here on AdventTalk.  It really is not that hard!!!

Snoopy, I am sorry my post was difficult for you to follow. I have tried to use quote many times and each time I get a message that there is no body to my message. I then have to post in whatever way I can.

[Bob Pickle]

For some, OMG may represent "god", but not for me. There are many things that OMG might mean.  For me, OMG = Oh My Goodness, Oh My Gosh or Oh My Gnats.

We should avoid phrases that are substitutes for taking God's name in vain.

[Bob Pickle]

What, in your opinion, would have been the appropriate way to handle these allegations in order to safeguard 3ABN and the Illinois Conference?

At the very least, investigate them by talking with the alleged victims, their families, and the ordaining associations as invited to do.

Child of God did NOT ask you why you didn't call the cops and tell them that Danny and Walt had failed to do to help matters.  Child of God asked why, if you were really concerned about the alleged victims, you didn't contact the appropriate legal persons.  What drives you to twist the words of others so?

I didn't twist your words. I was making a valid point. The issue for the last year and a half has been how Danny and Walt handled the matter in 2003. You raised the question about reporting it to the authorities. Reporting only the child molestation allegations to the authorities does nothing to address the issue at hand.

Did you know that every one of us, whether a sinner or not, whether measuring up to your idea of religious dogma or not, is a Child of God?

I suggest you read 1 John.

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother" (1 Jn. 3:10).

To claim to be a child of God is a high profession. Never should the child of God defend the cover up of child molestation allegations, for that certainly isn't righteousness.

[Cindy]

Because that is what you choose to see and say?

No, because it's the truth.

Are you ready yet to return to the ranks of conservativism and take a stand for righteousness?

As you define it? ummmm....

NO

My beliefs and conviction are mine, my defense of "right-doing" and opposition to "wrong-doing" obviously differ from yours....
as I follow my own conscience and convictions, based on my own knowledge and conclusions.

A word of advice, Bob.

Get down off the judgment seat of Christ and just deal with the issues and subjects of debate here and leave the individuals to Jesus.

Are you ready to say that Walt should have spoken with the alleged victims and not just the alleged perpetrator and his brother?

I wonder what you would think if the police routinely spoke only with the alleged murderer, the alleged thief, the alleged rapist, and never the alleged victims, and took the alleged perpetrator's word for it that everything was fine.

So one sided and biased...

I wonder how you would feel if you were the accused and all just wanted to consider the words of your accusers and seek evidence to back that up without listening to you or any who might provide background, evidense to exonerate you, or add insight to all, which is the other extreme?

I hope there are people who will look at and consider all, for without that the truth will never be known.

That is a big loss.

moving on...

[Cindy]

I was making a valid point. The issue for the last year and a half has been how Danny and Walt handled the matter in 2003. You raised the question about reporting it to the authorities. Reporting only the child molestation allegations to the authorities does nothing to address the issue at hand.

Depends on what you think the main issue and focus should be...

1. Condemning DS and 3ABN, and getting others to join you.

or

2. protecting alleged victims, and possible others who might be endangered and seeking justice according to civil laws of land, whether it be for the accused or the accusers.

and...
 the laws of Minnesota require clergy whether ordained or not to report any such things to authorities, how in the world can you find fault with Dr Walt, or Danny Shelton, and how 3abn handled it, when you who claim to know and have so much more evidence have NEVER reported it and have done nothing to help alleged victims or the alleged perpetrator? When you have done nothing except gather evidence to find fault with just one employer (3abn) of a man who without due process you have already condemned and found guilty?

Physician heal thyself!

[Bob Pickle]

Again, Ian, I want to invite you to return to the ranks of conservatism, and cease defending those who cover up child molestation allegations, cease defending those who lack the Christian courtesy to contact alleged victims when invited to do so, cease defending those who hire attorneys to threaten those who are concerned about child molestation allegations, and cease defending those who refuse to apologize for such ungodliness.

The Lord is coming soon!

[anyman]

So then as the self-appointed guardian of "conservatism," Mr. Robert Pickle, you are then admitting that because you claimed to be a member of the clergy when you became aware of said accusations and never contacted the authorities when you became aware of said accusations that you failed in your legal duty as a said member of the clergy.

So then based on your own description of responsibility is it not incumbent on you to apologize to all of these so-called "victims" (and the only one that can reasonably be identified as such because of their own claims is Duane) that you have been in contact with. To date you have not reported anything to the appropriate authorities and you seem to be legal bound to do such. Is your inaction on their part not unchristian? Isn't it an indication of dereliction of duty as a self-proclaimed member of the clergy?

You are not the guardian of conservatism, you are not the arbiter of what qualifies as conservatism. Instead you have taken a Pharisaical approach of judgmentalism and a inventor of laws and requirements that "allow" someone to be worthy of your opinion of "conservatism."

As Petunia pointed out, you manipulate peoples words by suggesting meaning that is not there, by editing and rearranging, by out right misleading interpretation, by suggesting you know intent even without asking individuals for clarification . . . and then you present it as truth - this is an abomination your subtle mixing of truth and lie.

When I look at the totality of your efforts and those you have associated with I am reminded of the following Psalm, as it seems to accurately describe the lament of those you have attacked publicly and privately, David is the voice for all of those you have attempted to vilify and destroy in public and private:

Psalms 64

1 Hear me oh God as I voice my complaint; protect my life from the threat of the enemy.
2 Hide me from the conspiracy of the wicked, from the noisy crowd of evildoers.
3 They sharpen their tongues like swords and aim their words like deadly arrows.
4 They shoot from ambush at the innocent man; they shoot at him suddenly. without fear.
5 They encourage each other in evil plans, they talk about hiding their snares; they say, "who will see them?"
6 They plot injustice and say, "We have devised a perfect plan!" Surely the mind and heart of man are cunning.
7 But God will shoot them with arrows; suddenly they will be struck down.
8 He will turn their own tongues against them and bring them to ruin; all who see them will shake their heads in scorn.
9 All mankind will fear; they will proclaim the works of God and ponder what he has done.
10 Let the righteous rejoice in the Lord and take refuge in him; let all the upright in heart praise him!

Verse 10 defines what action has been seen by those you attack - they have put their faith in God, yes even in filing a suit against you. Your fruits are not the fruits of the brethren, the suit is not for personal gain by 3ABN or anyone on that side - but to silence the voice of evil attempting to destroy the work of God. In the filing do you find anywhere that they will demand you make up the difference in any lost donations - NO. In the filing to you find anywhere that they will seek to debilitate you or Mr. Gailon Arthur Joy in any way financial - NO! The suit is designed to end your evil attack on 3ABN and to allow for all the energies necessary to counter the lies to be redirected back to the work of God. As opposed to your compatriots claim that there would be wonderful financial results for your side when the case was done.

Those you have attacked have sought the Peace of the Lord and abide there knowing your lies and attacks will be exposed in God's time. To date we have the end of the IRS investigation and their admittance that 3ABN was not charged a penny (Fran, have you heard back from your inside contact at the IRS? You have been rather silent on your claim that you would find out what the "real" truth was). Should the case (aren't you there today?) proceed your remaining allegations will be exposed as just the weak worn tapestry produced by a loosely held together rumor mill.

To reiterate, have you not been in dereliction of your pastoral duty by not taking the accusations you heard to the proper authorities? Do you not owe any "victims" an apology for failing to do so?

Again, Ian, I want to invite you to return to the ranks of conservatism, and cease defending those who cover up child molestation allegations, cease defending those who lack the Christian courtesy to contact alleged victims when invited to do so, cease defending those who hire attorneys to threaten those who are concerned about child molestation allegations, and cease defending those who refuse to apologize for such ungodliness.

The Lord is coming soon!