Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Artiste on January 26, 2008, 05:59:56 PM
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The suggestion made in another thread on this forum that the association of 3ABN with Amazing Facts together with The Quiet Hour and ShareHim ministries could "transcend the General Conference" to create a world ministry platform was an interesting one.
It appears that Seventh-day Adventist church leadership could be bypassed for missions purposes by some independent ministries.
It was also suggested that ASI, as in the ASI Mission Board, would be heavily involved in the implementation.
SDA church leadership, i.e. the General Conference, has been faulted for its inability to deal with various issues including the 3ABN problem.
However, members of the Seventh-day Adventist church who take their church responsibilities seriously might not want to see the church organization itself bypassed by entities driven by some powerful individuals within ASI.
The value of 3ABN in this vision for ministry is obvious: televised media allows the other ministries to have a world-wide reach.
The question is--will improprieties and alleged abuses within the 3ABN organization be covered up and overlooked in order that the goals of the other organizations can be realized?
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Anyone have any idea how the officers and directors of ASI are elected? Anyone have a constitution and bylaws? Anyone ever seen a 990 for ASI?
Gailon Arthur Joy
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The officers are elected at the time of the general conventions, but I don't know which group is responsible for this.
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Do things concerning ASI deserve its own forum here at Advent Talk? Just wondering.
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Does anybody think that ASI should have its own section here?
Fran was mentioning something about that a few days ago.
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I still think it needs investigating! I believe the partnership has taken place already at 3ABN. IT has many ASI members on programming. I can't fault the message of all doing their part in evangelism..... However, I oppose the act of not caring what a person has done or what they are doing.
3ABN/Danny's dealings have been against the donors and SDA Church members. The financial appeals are for all these different ministries except the satellite that Fjarli has paid for for one year to reach India. Danny asked that donations be sent to 3ABN and they would forward it to the Division! My opinion is not to send 3ABN one red cent. Send it directly to the division thought the GC.
It is a proven fact that 3ABN was posting other ministries money to 3ABN Income! It has not been proven to me that there has been a change to date. Until I know for a fact that there are controls in place to make sure this never happens again, I will NEVER give one penny to 3ABN!
I must also see that the Trust Fund Problems are taken care of. I need this from an independent Auditing agency or government agency. New satellite or no; just because the Fjarli's gave their hard earned bucks over to Danny is their business. Maybe Fjarli is a slow learner.????
Has anyone noticed the change in music? Has anyone noticed the change in programming? Has anyone else noticed all the appeals for money to other ministries? All are ASI related. Wake up folks. ASI has taken over 3ABN while everyone was sleeping.
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I still think it needs investigating! I believe the partnership has taken place already at 3ABN. IT has many ASI members on programming. I can't fault the message of all doing their part in evangelism..... However, I oppose the act of not caring what a person has done or what they are doing.
3ABN/Danny's dealings have been against the donors and SDA Church members. The financial appeals are for all these different ministries except the satellite that Fjarli has paid for for one year to reach India. Danny asked that donations be sent to 3ABN and they would forward it to the Division! My opinion is not to send 3ABN one red cent. Send it directly to the division thought the GC.
It is a proven fact that 3ABN was posting other ministries money to 3ABN Income! It has not been proven to me that there has been a change to date. Until I know for a fact that there are controls in place to make sure this never happens again, I will NEVER give one penny to 3ABN!
I must also see that the Trust Fund Problems are taken care of. I need this from an independent Auditing agency or government agency. New satellite or no; just because the Fjarli's gave their hard earned bucks over to Danny is their business. Maybe Fjarli is a slow learner.????
Has anyone noticed the change in music? Has anyone noticed the change in programming? Has anyone else noticed all the appeals for money to other ministries? All are ASI related. Wake up folks. ASI has taken over 3ABN while everyone was sleeping.
What exactly are the changes in music, programming, and money appeals, Fran?
I don't get 3ABN anymore where I am so haven't watch programming for the last several months.
How are the changes ASI related?
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http://www.asiministries.org/article.php?id=5
ASI Missions is what I am speaking of. ASI is an organization affiliated with the General Conference. ASI Missions is a ministry that is not part of the General Conference. Members may join ASI Missions. Self Supporting ministries and Businesses that are active in Missions or outreach through their business can apply to be a member.
Notice the website doesn't say who is what or what is what.
I had to call then to figure it all out.
Programming has a large portion of ASI members (Businesses and Independent Ministries). Amazing Facts I consider to be a Quasi Conference/Independent Ministry. It is written is an Adventist Ministry. I still see Shawn Boonstra and Breath of Life. The Adventist Programming is fast fading. Interviews are of independent ministries or those that became Adventist by watching 3ABN. Almost all Ministries get to ask for money. That is strange for 3ABN. Before it all was for 3ABN and Independent Ministries that had programs to be run had to take the trailers off that asked for money. That was policy with Danny in charge.
However, Money was being solicited for an India orphanage that the Division takes care of. They asked people to send the money to 3ABN! Not me! I have no proof they send the accurate amount of money they receive to the other ministry or project.
My take on this after figuring a few things out. Maranatha builds churches and schools. They rake in donations that members would be giving to the Church missions and Church support. Once they build they go away and the Conference/Unions/Divisions then have to foot the operations bills.
They are building fast. They are evangelising fast. Maybe faster than the GC can afford to handle. That being the point, I believe their are some that feel they need to build and control the things they build because the Conference/Union/Division/GC is inept and not able to manage anything much less the churches.
I believe they would like to control the school system, the Medical Systems and any other thing the Church controls. These few feel they are the power brokers to get this done. That would put them in control of all of these facilities.... They are almost there.
I also see these ministries entering the local churches. Churches will begin Media Ministries. This is all good stuff. It is the control factor that has my spine standing on end and gives me goose bumps.-
ASI and ASI Missions, Inc need to be investigated IMO. I believe they have become an Empire while the church wasn't looking. If this happens, The will take over the church and these Power Mongrels could be in charge. I would like to see their 990's and Audit reports. How transparent are they?
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http://www.asiministries.org/article.php?id=5
ASI Missions is what I am speaking of. ASI is an organization affiliated with the General Conference. ASI Missions is a ministry that is not part of the General Conference. Members may join ASI Missions. Self Supporting ministries and Businesses that are active in Missions or outreach through their business can apply to be a member.
Notice the website doesn't say who is what or what is what.
I had to call then to figure it all out.
Programming has a large portion of ASI members (Businesses and Independent Ministries). Amazing Facts I consider to be a Quasi Conference/Independent Ministry. It is written is an Adventist Ministry. I still see Shawn Boonstra and Breath of Life. The Adventist Programming is fast fading. Interviews are of independent ministries or those that became Adventist by watching 3ABN. Almost all Ministries get to ask for money. That is strange for 3ABN. Before it all was for 3ABN and Independent Ministries that had programs to be run had to take the trailers off that asked for money. That was policy with Danny in charge.
However, Money was being solicited for an India orphanage that the Division takes care of. They asked people to send the money to 3ABN! Not me! I have no proof they send the accurate amount of money they receive to the other ministry or project.
My take on this after figuring a few things out. Maranatha builds churches and schools. They rake in donations that members would be giving to the Church missions and Church support. Once they build they go away and the Conference/Unions/Divisions then have to foot the operations bills.
They are building fast. They are evangelising fast. Maybe faster than the GC can afford to handle. That being the point, I believe their are some that feel they need to build and control the things they build because the Conference/Union/Division/GC is inept and not able to manage anything much less the churches.
I believe they would like to control the school system, the Medical Systems and any other thing the Church controls. These few feel they are the power brokers to get this done. That would put them in control of all of these facilities.... They are almost there.
I also see these ministries entering the local churches. Churches will begin Media Ministries. This is all good stuff. It is the control factor that has my spine standing on end and gives me goose bumps.-
ASI and ASI Missions, Inc need to be investigated IMO. I believe they have become an Empire while the church wasn't looking. If this happens, The will take over the church and these Power Mongrels could be in charge. I would like to see their 990's and Audit reports. How transparent are they?
It has been 15 plus years since I was a member of ASI and used to enjoy very much the annual meetings. I loved ASI! The emphasis on missions and their motto of "Sharing Christ in the Marketplace" was refreshingly real and down to earth compared to organized church programs which seemed dull and out of touch.
Even at that time there was a noticeable culture of feeling that ASI could do this job better than the organized church. The business owners who comprised the membership were confident and competent individuals. And with all the results staring you in the face at the meetings, it was plausible to believe that, and it felt exciting to be a part of it.
ASI has always had designated individuals as liasons between it and the organized church. I remember church officials used to enjoy attending the yearly meetings because they were held in fun vacation spots, perhaps more then than now. I remember Elder Folkenberg singing in a men's quartet there when he was GC president.
I became very sad to see the way the Linda Shelton issue was treated by Harold Lance, etc. when there was an attempt at using ASI for arbitration between Linda and 3ABN. (This whole process is related on Save-3ABN web site.)
Fran, I hope that ASI is not trying to take over everything Adventist in the world!
But I am still wondering if we need an ASI forum here at AdventTalk, as suggested by Daryl.
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From the reports I saw and ASI programs presented on 3ABN I was greatly impressed with the work of ASI. It seemed to be an organization of active lay-people fully supporting the SDA Church. I discovered that certain Independent Ministries also belonged to another organization - and right at the moment I can't think of the right initials of this group . . . will someone help me?
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From the reports I saw and ASI programs presented on 3ABN I was greatly impressed with the work of ASI. It seemed to be an organization of active lay-people fully supporting the SDA Church. I discovered that certain Independent Ministries also belonged to another organization - and right at the moment I can't think of the right initials of this group . . . will someone help me?
OCI, Outposts Centers International.
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From the reports I saw and ASI programs presented on 3ABN I was greatly impressed with the work of ASI. It seemed to be an organization of active lay-people fully supporting the SDA Church. I discovered that certain Independent Ministries also belonged to another organization - and right at the moment I can't think of the right initials of this group . . . will someone help me?
OCI, Outposts Centers International.
Exactly. I have met several people from that organisation.
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From the reports I saw and ASI programs presented on 3ABN I was greatly impressed with the work of ASI. It seemed to be an organization of active lay-people fully supporting the SDA Church. I discovered that certain Independent Ministries also belonged to another organization - and right at the moment I can't think of the right initials of this group . . . will someone help me?
OCI, Outposts Centers International.
Does that operate globally or just in the USA? Would any Australian Independent Ministires belong to this organisation?
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From the reports I saw and ASI programs presented on 3ABN I was greatly impressed with the work of ASI. It seemed to be an organization of active lay-people fully supporting the SDA Church. I discovered that certain Independent Ministries also belonged to another organization - and right at the moment I can't think of the right initials of this group . . . will someone help me?
OCI, Outposts Centers International.
Does that operate globally or just in the USA? Would any Australian Independent Ministires belong to this organisation?
I do not know of Australia, but I know of several Independent Ministries in Europe which belong to that organization through which they get financial help. I once heard one their leaders stating he got more help through OCI than ASI.
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From the reports I saw and ASI programs presented on 3ABN I was greatly impressed with the work of ASI. It seemed to be an organization of active lay-people fully supporting the SDA Church. I discovered that certain Independent Ministries also belonged to another organization - and right at the moment I can't think of the right initials of this group . . . will someone help me?
I had heard of OCI before but didn't realize that it was a similar organization to ASI.
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I've gotten the impression that OCI is what ASI originally was: an organization of self-supporting ministries.
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I've gotten the impression that OCI is what ASI originally was: an organization of self-supporting ministries.
Yes, that's what it sounds like.
It's true that ASI morphed from its original group of self-supporting ministries to its present form of essentially an Adventist businessmen's club--with charitable functions and purposes.
I think the concept is a good one, since Adventist business people banded together can do a lot of good for the church as well as enjoying each other's fellowship from time to time at the meetings.
Is it only the ASI Missions Board with its weathy and powerful backers that has run amok?
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From the reports I saw and ASI programs presented on 3ABN I was greatly impressed with the work of ASI. It seemed to be an organization of active lay-people fully supporting the SDA Church. I discovered that certain Independent Ministries also belonged to another organization - and right at the moment I can't think of the right initials of this group . . . will someone help me?
I had heard of OCI before but didn't realize that it was a similar organization to ASI.
OCI is a member of ASI and many of OCI members have received financial donations from ASI.
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I still think it needs investigating! I believe the partnership has taken place already at 3ABN. IT has many ASI members on programming. I can't fault the message of all doing their part in evangelism..... However, I oppose the act of not caring what a person has done or what they are doing.
3ABN/Danny's dealings have been against the donors and SDA Church members. The financial appeals are for all these different ministries except the satellite that Fjarli has paid for for one year to reach India. Danny asked that donations be sent to 3ABN and they would forward it to the Division! My opinion is not to send 3ABN one red cent. Send it directly to the division thought the GC.
It is a proven fact that 3ABN was posting other ministries money to 3ABN Income! It has not been proven to me that there has been a change to date. Until I know for a fact that there are controls in place to make sure this never happens again, I will NEVER give one penny to 3ABN!
I must also see that the Trust Fund Problems are taken care of. I need this from an independent Auditing agency or government agency. New satellite or no; just because the Fjarli's gave their hard earned bucks over to Danny is their business. Maybe Fjarli is a slow learner.????
Has anyone noticed the change in music? Has anyone noticed the change in programming? Has anyone else noticed all the appeals for money to other ministries? All are ASI related. Wake up folks. ASI has taken over 3ABN while everyone was sleeping.
An astute observation, as usual, Fran. Anyone know why the IRS Criminal Invesigation Unit was interested in the relationship between 3ABN and ASI, etc??? Is it possible someone is already investigating?
We have certainly learned from John Harvey Kellogg, Davenport, Harris Pine, New England Memorial and 3ABN that a lot of excellently conceived and well meaning entities can have
those who would utilize the facilities thay manage for their own purposes, regardless of the Counsels. We seem to have a propensity to repeat History within the church and we have
most certainly learned that money can corrupt, but power can corrupt absolutely!!!
Would it really surprise us to find that there are cross purposes between a "hijacked" ASI entity and God's annointed instrument for world evangelism?
Since Bob and I are a bit pre-occupied, any volunteers to investigate and report? Fran just may serve as honorary chairperson for such a team.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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we may need the help of some of the good researchers over at BSDA
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The more the merrier!!! Gailon arthur Joy
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From the reports I saw and ASI programs presented on 3ABN I was greatly impressed with the work of ASI. It seemed to be an organization of active lay-people fully supporting the SDA Church. I discovered that certain Independent Ministries also belonged to another organization - and right at the moment I can't think of the right initials of this group . . . will someone help me?
I had heard of OCI before but didn't realize that it was a similar organization to ASI.
OCI is a member of ASI and many of OCI members have received financial donations from ASI.
Thank you for that clarification Sister.
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I still think it needs investigating! I believe the partnership has taken place already at 3ABN. IT has many ASI members on programming. I can't fault the message of all doing their part in evangelism..... However, I oppose the act of not caring what a person has done or what they are doing.
3ABN/Danny's dealings have been against the donors and SDA Church members. The financial appeals are for all these different ministries except the satellite that Fjarli has paid for for one year to reach India. Danny asked that donations be sent to 3ABN and they would forward it to the Division! My opinion is not to send 3ABN one red cent. Send it directly to the division thought the GC.
It is a proven fact that 3ABN was posting other ministries money to 3ABN Income! It has not been proven to me that there has been a change to date. Until I know for a fact that there are controls in place to make sure this never happens again, I will NEVER give one penny to 3ABN!
I must also see that the Trust Fund Problems are taken care of. I need this from an independent Auditing agency or government agency. New satellite or no; just because the Fjarli's gave their hard earned bucks over to Danny is their business. Maybe Fjarli is a slow learner.????
Has anyone noticed the change in music? Has anyone noticed the change in programming? Has anyone else noticed all the appeals for money to other ministries? All are ASI related. Wake up folks. ASI has taken over 3ABN while everyone was sleeping.
An astute observation, as usual, Fran. Anyone know why the IRS Criminal Invesigation Unit was interested in the relationship between 3ABN and ASI, etc??? Is it possible someone is already investigating?
We have certainly learned from John Harvey Kellogg, Davenport, Harris Pine, New England Memorial and 3ABN that a lot of excellently conceived and well meaning entities can have
those who would utilize the facilities thay manage for their own purposes, regardless of the Counsels. We seem to have a propensity to repeat History within the church and we have
most certainly learned that money can corrupt, but power can corrupt absolutely!!!
Would it really surprise us to find that there are cross purposes between a "hijacked" ASI entity and God's annointed instrument for world evangelism?
Since Bob and I are a bit pre-occupied, any volunteers to investigate and report? Fran just may serve as honorary chairperson for such a team.
Gailon Arthur Joy
Is there some indication that the IRS is extending an investigation to ASI, or is that just a possibility?
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I've gotten the impression that OCI is what ASI originally was: an organization of self-supporting ministries.
Yes, that's what it sounds like.
It's true that ASI morphed from its original group of self-supporting ministries to its present form of essentially an Adventist businessmen's club--with charitable functions and purposes.
I think the concept is a good one, since Adventist business people banded together can do a lot of good for the church as well as enjoying each other's fellowship from time to time at the meetings.
Is it only the ASI Missions Board with its wealthy and powerful backers that has run amok?
Running amok. Mammon?