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[ImaAnt]

There is some information on the web regarding Folkenberg for anyone who wants to read it.

One of the better published articles can be found at AToday.

http://www.atoday.com/magazine/2002/03/folkenberg-resigns

Another newspaper account is found at:

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/082298/fea_advent.shtml

Folkenberg's relationship to the Dennis case mentioned elsewhere is noted here:

http://www.advmca.org/case/dennis.htm

There is a brief mention of the resignation in the following Google Book excerpt at page 344.  I do not own the book so do not know if there is more discussion regarding Folkenberg and his nefarious activities while GC president.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZecGePod4fgC&pg=PA344&lpg=PA344&dq=robert+folkenberg+resigns&source=web&ots=3z5I3IMQNh&sig=JSPiCtVsZcAEedEIgqabStEZqW8#PPP1,M1

Inga and others.  My sources have told me stories of amazing self-dealing with only the tip of the iceberg ever being discussed publicly.  Johann, I assume you are referring to the MLM deal regarding MCI long distance plans?

[inga]

While Folkenberg was GC president he was trying to get 3ABN under the wings of the Church, but did not succeed. After he was ousted as the GC president he suddenly becomes almost a bedfellow of Danny Shelton since both of them are running Independent Ministries, and both are, to possibly quite some extent, gaining their financial backing from the same source ...

I had been wondering about the source of the funding for the ShareHim ministry. Anyone who signs up for doing evengelism through ShareHim.org gets a free CD with the sermons, PowerPoint files, etc. While this is not a huge expense, it does cost money, especially taking mail expenses into account. And Bob Folkenberg travels extensively in order to train participants, see how the foreign campaings are going, etc. I had my doubts that the Carolina Conference would underwrite it all.

On the other hand, the program seems to be run on the proverbial "shoe string." When my husband asked Bob for a presentation specifically tailored to the East Indian audience, Bob personally sent him a CD because it wasn't yet available publically. (He signed the form at the post office.) And his wife Anita is also involved, apparently doing the office work. There's no evidence of a paid "staff."

In thinking about the financing (jogged by the postings here), I recalled Bob talking about a certain manufacturer of garbage trucks and how God had blessed him and how he was underwriting so much evangelism around the world. (Bob's brother was at the same meeting, but I don't remember whether Garwin was too. It's been years ago -- possibly before he was even GC president.)

So it does seem likely that GM is funding the ShareHim program.

No question about it -- I believe the ShareHim evangelism is a good program. And from hearing Bob promote the ShareHim program, I did not hear a hint of rivalry with the GC or any hint that the church wasn't doing its job. All I got out of it was that God still works powerfully today through anyone that is willing to be used. (He tells amazing stories of the most unlikely "evangelists" being used by God.)

I would love to see the ShareHim program more closely connected with the GC. I wonder what is preventing that? Is it people already in elected offices who are afraid they will be overshadowed by Bob Folkenberg? Or are the principals in ShareHim not willing? (I would hope it is neither.)

We all need to trust God more and be more willing to be used by Him -- whether or not we make mistakes and whether or not we have made big mistakes in the past.

David sinned greatly, but his repentance was thorough, and I believe he was a man after God''s own heart when he repented. God can do more through men of action who are willing to risk much than through the careful, conservative ones who are unwilling to step out of their comfort zone.

[Johann]

As you state, ImaAnt, only the tip of the iceberg was discussed publicly. Various sources exposed different sides of what really happened. All agree that Bob Folkenberg was replaced by another president, and we know that he is elected to serve until 2010.

[Fran]

There is good news and bad news about the "New" 3ABN.

The good news is that Danny is on the big screen a lot less!

However, the awful news is that he is still there.

[imagrandpa]

The David Dennis story would probably merit a new thread.

In summary, he was an auditor at the GC.... the church's top auditor.
From what I have read (and now believe), he exposed many financial
misdealings that Folkenberg was involved in.  I would think it would be
the job of an auditor in his position to do these things.

Long and short of story ---  Folkenberg retailiated against him for
doing his job and cost the man his livelihood.

Dennis sued the church, I believe for slander or wrongful termination.
The church did NOT want the case to proceed to trial and as a result
spent many years of legal maneuvering to keep 12 jurors from hearing
the evidence and then rendering a judgment.

The church spent several millions of dollars of (tithe money) to keep
it out of the courts.

Bottom line... they wore Dennis down and he ran out of money.

I personally knew people that worked with David Dennis and they
all spoke very highly of him.

The problem in our church is that a man like Folkenberg has too much
power.  Will his influence and power (to give people jobs and take
them away), he can pretty much do what he wants. 

I do not remember all of the details of what the accusations were
against Folkengerg --- but it was NOT just a bunch of smoke
and mirrors..

The shame of it all is how David Dennis was treated and thrown
out like a dirty rag.   Although many people in the church knew
and were very aware of the facts.... there were just not enough
of them to make a differnce.  When the new president came in
after Folkenberg -- he said he would appoint a "blue ribbon
committee" to seek out the truth and right some wrongs. 

Well, as it usually happens in our church... it never happened.
He figured out that there wasn't enough people pushing for
this and he could just pretend the sordid event never happened.
Sortof like Gilley now proclaiming to want to look to the future
now and forget the past about what was done to Linda.

Our church is very competent when it comes to damamge
control and keeping things away from the members.  The
church has been moving in the wrong direction for a number
of years... and it makes me sad.  I did not join a cult 50
years ago... but this is exactly what it's characteristics are.

It's all about control, control, control.
It starts with the local church and moves right on up !

Remember when the pastor was simply an advisor to
"nominating committees"?   Not now... now they are
EXPECTED  to be the chairman - rather than an observor
or consultant.   This was done in 2000 and the ch.
manual was changed to facilitate this. 

I did not join a cult.

[Snoopy]

Wow imagrandpa - that is very interesting.  Thank you for your insightful post.  It sounds like you have some firsthand information regarding Elder Folkenberg and the GC Internal Audit Department.  I noticed you made reference to some things you have read.  I am curious - is it anything you could post here or provide a link to?  I would be very interested to see it.  It surely does sound like it might warrant its own thread.

Regarding Pastor Gilley, my heart really goes out to him.  I'd be willing to bet he was not given the entire picture of 3ABN's current situation when he was asked to take over as President.  I know it may sound like he wants to forget the past, but it is possible that is just how it appears to the viewing public while he is reeling from what has hit him since he arrived in T'ville.  I know I often have a tendency to make an opinion without having the entire story, so I am trying to reserve judgment in this area.  I think he deserves some more time, but maybe that's just me.

Snoopy

The David Dennis story would probably merit a new thread.

In summary, he was an auditor at the GC.... the church's top auditor.
From what I have read (and now believe), he exposed many financial
misdealings that Folkenberg was involved in.  I would think it would be
the job of an auditor in his position to do these things.

[Johann]

According to what Mr. Appletree has just posted on BSDA, Danny Shelton still seems to be in full control at 3ABN. And there seems no likelihood for any kind of compromise.

[Snoopy]

Poor Mr. Appletree.  He is so misled.  His mis-information is contrary to what I hear is going on in the 3ABN boardroom (wherever that might be) and is exactly what I was referring to with regard to giving Elder Gilley a chance.  What if it comes down to a war between Mr. Shelton and Elder Gilley?  We need to pray fervently for Elder Gilley and the wisdom he will need to see through the smoke and clean the house.  And let's not forget...it will be really difficult for Mr. Shelton to maintain control of 3ABN and battle the IRS at the same time.

Snoopy

[imagrandpa]

The David Dennis affair goes back beyond 3 years ago.
I will try and find some links if they are still alive and post them
here.

Let me be clear.  I have no desire to chop off Folkenberg's
legs right now.  It's just that I had had some hope that the
"brethren" would eventually do the right thing and clear a
good man's name.  All the man (David D) wanted was to be
able to tell his story to 12 honest men and women and then
let the church tell their side - and let them decide who was
right and wrong.

I believe strongly that Folkenberg with his connections and
power simply railroaded the man. 

Possibly get the people who run this board create a new thread
for this subject?   

As far as Gilley goes.... I will pray for him.  I doubt he was stupid
enough to not be pretty aware of what he was getting in to.
My sources (2 first hand) tell me that he was pretty much
"begged" to take the job.  I know Gilley, but only indirectly
and sure he probably knows me when he sees me.  I believe
he is the best man for the job (from what I know abt him). He
has charisma, ability to lead and primarily a proven ability to
raise money.... and this is on eof 3abn's primary problems.
Rather than judge the man, I prefer to see what he does and
how and if he will right some wrongs.   He says he simply wants
to look forward.... this is not a particularly good omen.

The path of least resistance is not always the best way to
go when trying to straighten out a mess. 

[imagrandpa]

]http://www.advmca.org/articles/Ex[url]change%20with%20GC.htm[/url]

Not sure if I have done this correctly or not, but the link to some
information re: the David Dennis affair is at the above link.

The site is :   Members For Church Accountability

The men who were associated with the site are desirious of
needed change in the organization, and governance of our
church.  They did not indulge in anything caustic or detrimental.
Not a forum.... but a good source of information.

I will try and find other areas for information.

One could just pick up the phone and call the GC.
Ask to talk to someone that knows about what
happened to David Dennis.

I once called and got hold of an atty. -- he was obviously
schooled on what to say and had the drill down pat.
I would like to know how much money the chuirch spent
on lawyers over 4 years to keep it out of court.  I had
heard it ran into the millions.  This was not denied by
the person I talked to. 

What happened back then was in my mind more serious
than the Danny/Linda events at 3abn -- This was my
Church !

There were also some articles published in -- I think -
Spectrum magazine.

[inga]

It seems to me that there are some very strong parallels between the Shelton scandal and the Dennis scandal.

In each case, a powerful person or group of persons mistreated one without the power. And in each case, an innocent person was apparently slandered and sacrificed "for the greater good" (in the view of those perpetrating the mistreatment).

I hate to think that Bob Folkenberg played the same part as Danny Shelton has been playing, but maybe he did, and I'm just as wrong in my impression of Bob Folkenberg as the defenders of Danny Shelton are today.

From what I have read, I believe David Dennis to be an honest man who was shamefully mistreated.

Is it not, in the end, a lack of faith that leads people in positions of power to use the ways of the devil to do the work of the Lord?

How the Lord must weep!

I suppose a more practical question for us is whether we -- that is you and I -- have enough faith to allow all our actions to be "as transparent as sunlight" and trust the consequences to God.

[Artiste]

It is my opinion that starting a thread or section on the David Dennis affair would not belong in the 3ABN forum here. 

There are probably various Seventh-day Adventist church problems or scandals out there that could be commented on or developed into discussion areas.

AdventTalk has sections for respectful discussion of theology, Sabbath School lesson study, etc.  I don't see a section for the purpose of bringing to the forefront problems and scandals of our church. 

Of course the Seventh-day Aventist church is not perfect, but I haven't seen any evidence that AdventTalk is a site that intends to highlight the imperfections of the church. 

[imagrandpa]

The David Dennis story would probably merit a new thread.

In summary, he was an auditor at the GC.... the church's top auditor.
From what I have read (and now believe), he exposed many financial
misdealings that Folkenberg was involved in.  I would think it would be
the job of an auditor in his position to do these things.

Long and short of story ---  Folkenberg retailiated against him for
doing his job and cost the man his livelihood.

Dennis sued the church, I believe for slander or wrongful termination.
The church did NOT want the case to proceed to trial and as a result
spent many years of legal maneuvering to keep 12 jurors from hearing
the evidence and then rendering a judgment.

The church spent several millions of dollars of (tithe money) to keep
it out of the courts.

Bottom line... they wore Dennis down and he ran out of money.

I personally knew people that worked with David Dennis and they
all spoke very highly of him.

The problem in our church is that a man like Folkenberg has too much
power.  Will his influence and power (to give people jobs and take
them away), he can pretty much do what he wants.

I do not remember all of the details of what the accusations were
against Folkengerg --- but it was NOT just a bunch of smoke
and mirrors..

The shame of it all is how David Dennis was treated and thrown
out like a dirty rag.   Although many people in the church knew
and were very aware of the facts.... there were just not enough
of them to make a differnce.  When the new president came in
after Folkenberg -- he said he would appoint a "blue ribbon
committee" to seek out the truth and right some wrongs.

Well, as it usually happens in our church... it never happened.
He figured out that there wasn't enough people pushing for
this and he could just pretend the sordid event never happened.
Sortof like Gilley now proclaiming to want to look to the future
now and forget the past about what was done to Linda.

Our church is very competent when it comes to damamge
control and keeping things away from the members.  The
church has been moving in the wrong direction for a number
of years... and it makes me sad.  I did not join a cult 50
years ago... but this is exactly what it's characteristics are.

It's all about control, control, control.
It starts with the local church and moves right on up !

Remember when the pastor was simply an advisor to
"nominating committees"?   Not now... now they are
EXPECTED  to be the chairman - rather than an observor
or consultant.   This was done in 2000 and the ch.
manual was changed to facilitate this.

I did not join a cult.

[Artiste]

Imagrandpa,

Why did you repeat the same lengthy post today, verbatum, as you posted yesterday?  The conclusion of which was "the church has been moving in the wrong direction for a number of years".

Isn't there a term for that?

It would seem to me to be some type of spam.

I understand you have a beef with the actions of the Seventh-day Adventist church...

[imagrandpa]

Sorry, no spam intended.
I just made a mistake.
javascript:void(0);
Smiley