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[Bob Pickle]

Johann,

What about the rest of 1 Jn. 3 were they unwilling to consider?

1 John 5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

One thing that struck me at some point was that it was incorrect to read this verse, claim we can know that we have eternal life, and then go off to read other verses in other Bible books, without seeing what John actually wrote in 1 Jn. that tells us how we can know. Throughout the book he keeps telling us in different ways how we can know that we do have eternal life, and how we can know that we don't have eternal life.

[Johann]

Johann,

What about the rest of 1 Jn. 3 were they unwilling to consider?

1 John 5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

One thing that struck me at some point was that it was incorrect to read this verse, claim we can know that we have eternal life, and then go off to read other verses in other Bible books, without seeing what John actually wrote in 1 Jn. that tells us how we can know. Throughout the book he keeps telling us in different ways how we can know that we do have eternal life, and how we can know that we don't have eternal life.

Then they should have had you there to guide them, Bob.

[christian]

So I don't think there was the hiatus you suggest between CUC and Hartland.

The battle is not with Hartland or our Firm Foundation the battle is with the bible. The Bible says if you break one commandment you are guilty of all, so how can you keep the Sabbath without keeping the rest of the commandments? Or what good does it do to try and keep the Sabbath if you cannot keep it?

Quite true, Christian. But these were the ones who were attacking us in our churches. They were told to stay active in their local churches, so when they had their private meetings they were on Sabbath afternoons and evenings so that their people would attend the local Sabbath School and church service in the morning.

Participating in the Sabbath School discussion, there were times when it seemed like the only portion of the Bible which really meant something to them was 1 John 3:4. They would not even consider the rest of that chapter written by the Apostle John.

Such one-sided Bible reading does not lead to a reformation nor a greater spiritual life in the church, and that could be one reason why these Independent Ministries were not acknowledged by the General Conference as supporting the Church.

I can not speak to the tactics used by those independent ministries but I can speak to the stance of the church at large. The church recognizes the colleges and institutions that are mired in the world and in their philosophy's. The true spreading of the gospel will cause dissension and strife.  The church did not recognize Jesus either so that by itself does not diminish the truthfulness of the messenger. Unfortunately for to long the church as a corporate structure has not done what it is suppose to do, becoming a self sustaining entity. Many of the ministers are professional people who are not able to discern spiritual things and because of that money and position are their main goals. Many are concerned more with the reputation and financial success of the corporation instead of working to put themselves out of business. Most pastors or payed workers have more of a loyalty to the church than a loyalty to God. The primary purpose of the church is to prepare the worker for heaven not for earthly gain.

[Artiste]

Johann,

What about the rest of 1 Jn. 3 were they unwilling to consider?

1 John 5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

One thing that struck me at some point was that it was incorrect to read this verse, claim we can know that we have eternal life, and then go off to read other verses in other Bible books, without seeing what John actually wrote in 1 Jn. that tells us how we can know. Throughout the book he keeps telling us in different ways how we can know that we do have eternal life, and how we can know that we don't have eternal life.

Then they should have had you there to guide them, Bob.

I would say that that's sarcasm, Johann.

[Johann]

Johann,

What about the rest of 1 Jn. 3 were they unwilling to consider?

1 John 5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

One thing that struck me at some point was that it was incorrect to read this verse, claim we can know that we have eternal life, and then go off to read other verses in other Bible books, without seeing what John actually wrote in 1 Jn. that tells us how we can know. Throughout the book he keeps telling us in different ways how we can know that we do have eternal life, and how we can know that we don't have eternal life.

Then they should have had you there to guide them, Bob.

I would say that that's sarcasm, Johann.

I can see your point, Artiste. If you consider Bob a charlatan it could be sarcasm. But I considered Bob to be honest in this case, and that is why I responded the way I did, because he was saying what I would have said. I was consenting to him, not objecting. If he had maintained those points at that time, he would have been a great help to me.