Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Bob Pickle on August 27, 2008, 08:45:41 PM
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Since I can't communicate directly with Danny Shelton thanks to a complaint by Jerrie Hayes on December 14, 2007, I can't ask him some questions I find intriguing. Otherwise I would love to ask him some questions over on ClubAdventist.
On August 5, 2006, Pastor Kevin Paulson said that Danny Shelton told him that Brandy had been chasing him for 17 years.
On February 8, 2005, Danny wrote Linda (http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-demise-of-marriage-pile-of-what-07.htm) and told her, "May says you are telling her things about me and Brandy. First of all you don't know, anything about what me and Brandy are or are not doing. And secondly, if I wanted to have a girlfriend now whether it would be a Brandy or a Jane Doe, it would be none of your business as you have now refused for over a year to let this Norwegian man go. ... Anyway, we've been. divorced for nearly eight months and we all know that I have biblical grounds. If I want to date someone else I am free to do it."
However, Danny wrote Linda on November 21, 2005, and said, "One other thing. I do not have a girlfriend. I am free as bird in the wild. I have friends but I am not having a romantic relationship with any woman at this time. Maybe in the future the Lord will send someone who will love me."
Linda responded on November 22, 2005, "ha ha ha, hee hee hee, ho ho ho."
Danny quickly replied, "Linda Sue, Thank you!!!!! It's been a long time since you have made me scream laughing! Only you could have come up with that! Again I state that presently I am not in any kind of a boyfriend, girlfriend relationship with any woman. Can you say the same? I am scott free and enjoying it!"
Danny married Brandy on March 8, 2006.
One question I would want to ask Danny is how long he would recommend that couples court before they get married. Three and a half months seems a bit short, though I've heard of shorter.
Another possible question might whether Danny still stands by his statement of November 21 and 22, 2005, that he and Brandy were "not in any kind of a boyfriend, girlfriend relationship" as of that date. Was he in reality breaking the ninth commandment in making that statement, or was that the absolute truth?
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Bob, I hear tell that Danny and Brandy were at Subway arms around each other, while at the same time he was asking Linda to come home!
Linda was divorced in June and Brandy moves to IL in July! Go figure.
Do I personally believe Danny knew Brandy before the divorce. Yes, I do. Just my opinion based on a late June divorce and Brandy showing up at her mother's insistence in July. Danny will help her start her life again. He sure did that didn't he?
I have questions I would like answered also, but he would not answer and Stan would not let me ask any questions. He has made his opinion of me quite clear and public. So, I won't even try, but I would like to ask some eBay questions for sure.
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Fran, I would not get too concerned about Stan's Opinion of you. For the record, my opinion of Stan Jensen is not repeatable in a public forum. But, he knows very well how I feel about him. Spelled it out in pretty plain ENGLISH!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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I like Stan. :pals: He just puts himself into jams. I don't think he tries to do it. It doesn't bother me how he feels about me. I really thought of him as a friends for a quite a while. 3ABN caused us to change sides of the fence. I can't blame him for doing what he had to do to CYA stuff. He is not a rich man and can not afford to be sued. I understand that, but I am just stupid enough not to care about being sued.
People say the Lord takes care of babies and fools. I shore ain't no baby! Now "Babe: might be another matter! :ROFL: :dunno: My nick name used to be "Franny Babe!". Honest to God!
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I still count Stan as a friend, and was invited to ask questions at CA for Danny's interview. But someone else is going to have to ask the questions.
I'll have to wait until the deposition, and the trial, to ask some of mine.
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Fran - just a little clarification. Was Brandy in IL before she moved there with kids in tow or did DS ask Linda to come home after the divorce?
I have never bought the story of her showing up looking for a job. What mother with an ounce of sense would drag her kids that distance in a car to a place where she knew no one without some kind of assurance of help. Much more to that story!
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Fran - just a little clarification. Was Brandy in IL before she moved there with kids in tow or did DS ask Linda to come home after the divorce?
I have never bought the story of her showing up looking for a job. What mother with an ounce of sense would drag her kids that distance in a car to a place where she knew no one without some kind of assurance of help. Much more to that story!
Maybe we should leave that story to Linda's Attorney to sort out. I do not feel that the Brandy story is one for the forums as the evidence is still "inconclusive". There are timelines and allegations all over the boards but nothing has yet been substantiated, therefore, Brandy comments are simply rumor and innuendo without
solid basis, at this point. All we can verify at this time is she used a pick and shovel, she struck gold, knew how to polish it to a fine sheen and now has the dubious distinction that goes with it.
Now the Brenda question is wide open and she has made it thus by building, one strand at a time, a web from which she cannot extract herself. Her statements regarding Linda are infamous and full of documentable errors best descibed as bold faced fabrications (dare I say lies?). She knows very well what she has done and she must face the facts and fess up!!! Or she can get into the frey and we put her story to the public grindstone of discovery.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Danny Shelton accused his wife of committing adultery.
Then later he tried to lead people to think that he had never done such a thing.
I would ask him if he could explain the discrepancy.
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Danny Shelton accused his wife of committing adultery.
Then later he tried to lead people to think that he had never done such a thing.
I would ask him if he could explain the discrepancy.
What we are finding is that Danny Lee Shelton cannot explain anything, including where all the evidence is. I love the latest story on the phone call recording: yes, he has a recording; yes, Linda is talking with the doctor about secret rondezvous; No, you cannot have a copy because only Danny can interpret what is "really" being said; And why would you need it anyway? His board believes him and the General Conference believes him, so why would you not simply believe him??? Why, Danny Lee Shelton? Because YOU cannot be trusted and you are almost always factually challenged!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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The questions: How are you paying for the attorneys in your different cases? Have you obtained a loan from anybody including an attorney to pay for attorney fees? Are there any contingency agreements for payment of attorney fees? Are any funds you obtained from 3ABN donors past or present been used for your purposes of litigation? How much have you spent on attorney's fees to date on your lawsuits? :wave: :help: :wave: :help:
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The questions: How are you paying for the attorneys in your different cases? Have you obtained a loan from anybody including an attorney to pay for attorney fees? Are there any contingency agreements for payment of attorney fees? Are any funds you obtained from 3ABN donors past or present been used for your purposes of litigation? How much have you spent on attorney's fees to date on your lawsuits? :wave: :help: :wave: :help:
There is a defense fund. Mr. Pickle is the Chancellor of the Exchequer and would have numbers on income and expenses. I am not aware that I have spent any sums from the defense fund. I am aware that we have paid subpoena fees and filing fees as well as payment for document copies in some instances.
My Costs have been time and travel, phone expense and other various typical business expenses such as postage,
various online research tools, etc.
I have been pro se from the beginning of the case. Therefore, I have no attorney expenses. Mr Pickle opted for pro se status about three months in.
There are no loans that I am aware of.
You would have to PM Mr Pickle for specifics on the Defense Fund.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Sorry Gailon,
I should have been more clear. ;D:wave: I meant for those questions to be addressed to DS. ;D :wave: ;D
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Gailon, it appears to me that Wendell was listing questions he would like to ask Danny Shelton on CA about who is funding their attorney fees in the law suit. Of course, I could be mistaken. It was nice to see an overview of what you have put towards the endeavor, though.
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Danny Shelton accused his wife of committing adultery.
Then later he tried to lead people to think that he had never done such a thing.
I would ask him if he could explain the discrepancy.
What we are finding is that Danny Lee Shelton cannot explain anything, including where all the evidence is. I love the latest story on the phone call recording: yes, he has a recording; yes, Linda is talking with the doctor about secret rondezvous; No, you cannot have a copy because only Danny can interpret what is "really" being said; And why would you need it anyway? His board believes him and the General Conference believes him, so why would you not simply believe him??? Why, Danny Lee Shelton? Because YOU cannot be trusted and you are almost always factually challenged!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
Since you have never talked with Danny you wouldn't have a clue as to what he thinks, feels, knows or has. Once again your "sources" always fall slightly short of the truth. I have never heard Danny or anyone close to him that knows the situation say only he can interpret. In fact, the board, the pastor, and several that counseled with Linda heard and saw the evidence and came to their own conclusion. Guess what it was????
As far as your legal expenses, filing fees, phone, whatever....How are you paying for those when you said you only had 2.00 in your bankruptcy filings. We know you haven't had a real job in sometime so who is financially supporting you through this? Afterall a guy has to eat, pay utilties, buy gas etc etc. I can think of only 3 options.
1. Your wife is working and supporting you
2. An outsider is supporting you
3. You are on welfare
You insist on openess and transparency and you want to know every nickel that DS has so let's take a look at your finances...shall we?
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Thats right Gailon, if your wife is supporting you then she should be able to demand to see your finances. If an oustsider is supporting you then that outsider should be able to know how you are spending the money they are giving you. If donors are supporting you then you should be answerable to them. If you are using a 501-c3 to get monies out of a bunch of donors and Sam represents a segment of them who want to know if you have abused that 501-c3 for the purpose of enriching yourself at the expense of donors who are mostly on fixed or low incomes, then I demand that you answer to Sam and provide him/her with the accounting that he/she requires.
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In fact, the board, the pastor, and several that counseled with Linda heard and saw the evidence and came to their own conclusion. Guess what it was????
Probably not.
John Lomacang said he had personally seen phone card phone records totaling hundreds of hours of calls between the USA and Norway, yet failed to produce as promised. 3ABN and Danny have failed to produce those records in this lawsuit. AT&T claimed that they don't give out such records. Lomacang and Mollie Steenson refused to answer the simple question of whether the hundreds of hours was actual time spent on the phone or billed units.
At this point I would say the evidence points to this bit of "evidence" never existing.
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Thats right Gailon, if your wife is supporting you then she should be able to demand to see your finances. If an oustsider is supporting you then that outsider should be able to know how you are spending the money they are giving you. If donors are supporting you then you should be answerable to them. If you are using a 501-c3 to get monies out of a bunch of donors and Sam represents a segment of them who want to know if you have abused that 501-c3 for the purpose of enriching yourself at the expense of donors who are mostly on fixed or low incomes, then I demand that you answer to Sam and provide him/her with the accounting that he/she requires.
So why don't you and Sam go donate to the fund and see for yourselves if your donation is tax deductible?
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Thats right Gailon, if your wife is supporting you then she should be able to demand to see your finances. If an oustsider is supporting you then that outsider should be able to know how you are spending the money they are giving you. If donors are supporting you then you should be answerable to them. If you are using a 501-c3 to get monies out of a bunch of donors and Sam represents a segment of them who want to know if you have abused that 501-c3 for the purpose of enriching yourself at the expense of donors who are mostly on fixed or low incomes, then I demand that you answer to Sam and provide him/her with the accounting that he/she requires.
So why don't you and Sam go donate to the fund and see for yourselves if your donation is tax deductible?
Lol! I know that it isnt, but, bless his heart, perhaps Sam would like to donate and find out.
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Prayer of the Day
Dearest Lord, teach me
to be generous...
:oops:
I received this today from a ministry!
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Prayer of the Day
Dearest Lord, teach me
to be generous...
:oops:
I received this today from a ministry!
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: HOWLING!!!!!!
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Sam ought to try donating. He/She would get a really nice personal thank you from Bob telling how the donations are used. :puppykisses:
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Questions I would ask:
How can someone making $60.000 a year was able to save close to $200,000 in a secret checking account?
What did you do with all those coins hid in your office safe?
If the IL Court has ruled that 3ABN, at the time of the divorce, was a tightly held family for-profit business, wouldn't that mean that Linda gets 1/2 of the value of 3ABN at the time of the divorce?
Linda was there from inception to the divorce, 20 years, why would she not be able to benefit 1/2 of ALL the assets? What 3ABN is today is irrelevant since at that time things were different, right?
Why would Danny hide the $300,000 he had in another secret account from Linda?
How many secret offshore accounts do you have?
What is her share of all the "missing" eBay sales from 1998-2002? Since the court has ruled, wouldn't she get 1/2 of those proceeds too, since 3ABN never saw the proceeds?
How do you feel the average Seventh-day Adventist will react when they find that the money they donated went to another religion that Tommy was associated with?
Where did Tommy get his income to support his family when he was without employment? Did he receive welfare from the eBay sales?
Will Tammy take the fall for getting the money for some of 3ABN sales listed on her site where she received the money for those sales?
Danny, why would Brenda Walsh lie like she did?
It is clear the story morphed from best friends to harlot in 4 years. Remember that she, in March of 2004, came up with Spiritual Adultery, but changed her story when she was possessed by the devil and all her clothes were thrown down! Then she repented for her lying. She asked Linda, Danny and others for forgiveness for her lying way back then. Danny was supposed to have cast out her Satanic possession, but it seems to have remained, since she now says Linda committed Adultery! She says Linda is a money hungry gold digger and wanted the doctors money!
Why has she not married the doctor if she wanted his money? Why does she need an income?
I posted most of these on 3ABNTalk. I posted several posts! They all disappeared. So did Princess Di's posts. And to think, they talk about AdventTalk being bad.
I also believe Linda should receive damages for every engagement she could have done except for the damage that Danny and 3ABN interfered with by defamation of Linda's character! Linda can not support herself because of all that Danny and 3ABN have done to her!
3ABNTalk said some really bad things and I posted in Linda's behalf. Poof! The post is gone. I posted to support Gailon and Bob. Poof! The posts are gone. I guess my opinions are not allowed over there. They never even notified me they deleted the post or why! Where is freedom of speech over there.
They have a thread space for copies of posts on other forums that mention 3ABN. Maybe through this post I will gain space on 3ABNTalK ? ? ?
Well here it is, I said Danny and 3ABN all in this one post!
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Questions I would ask:
How can someone making $60.000 a year was able to save close to $200,000 in a secret checking account?
What did you do with all those coins hid in your office safe?
Surely we jest?
Why would Danny hide the $300,000 he had in another secret account from Linda?
How many secret offshore accounts do you have?
If this is secret how is it we know
CPAATTY
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Questions I would ask:
How can someone making $60.000 a year was able to save close to $200,000 in a secret checking account?
What did you do with all those coins hid in your office safe?
Surely we jest?
Why would Danny hide the $300,000 he had in another secret account from Linda?
How many secret offshore accounts do you have?
If this is secret how is it we know
CPAATTY
"Loose lips sink ships." God has told us that what we do in secret will become known.
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Believe? Gurl, now, I thought Brandy showed up a little later than that, but you know I don't keep up that well. However, for her to show up not in non Adventist.......yet(right?), too soon after the departure of Danny's wife, noy in Chicago, but Hicktown, IL, 3ABN compound, wihtout pot nor window, kids in tow, jes' cuz, jes ain't wekin' for me.
Plus, did he not admit to knowing Brandy for many years?
Bob, I hear tell that Danny and Brandy were at Subway arms around each other, while at the same time he was asking Linda to come home!
Linda was divorced in June and Brandy moves to IL in July! Go figure.
Do I personally believe Danny knew Brandy before the divorce. Yes, I do. Just my opinion based on a late June divorce and Brandy showing up at her mother's insistence in July. Danny will help her start her life again. He sure did that didn't he?
I have questions I would like answered also, but he would not answer and Stan would not let me ask any questions. He has made his opinion of me quite clear and public. So, I won't even try, but I would like to ask some eBay questions for sure.
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Plus, did he not admit to knowing Brandy for many years?
Pastor Kevin Paulson told me immediately after it happened, on August 5, 2006, in Grapevine, TX, at Sabbath lunch at ASI, that Brandy had been chasing him for 17 years, and he finally gave in.
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Plus, did he not admit to knowing Brandy for many years?
Pastor Kevin Paulson told me immediately after it happened, on August 5, 2006, in Grapevine, TX, at Sabbath lunch at ASI, that Brandy had been chasing him for 17 years, and he finally gave in.
Did Pastor Paulson say this rather tongue in cheek? At that time wouldn't Brandy have been in her early teens......seems a tinge unusual for a girl that age to
'set her cap' at someone so much older.
I am not doubting the words were said, I am just wondering if they meant Brandy had been actively pursuing such a goal for 17 years.
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Plus, did he not admit to knowing Brandy for many years?
Pastor Kevin Paulson told me immediately after it happened, on August 5, 2006, in Grapevine, TX, at Sabbath lunch at ASI, that Brandy had been chasing him for 17 years, and he finally gave in.
Did Pastor Paulson say this rather tongue in cheek? At that time wouldn't Brandy have been in her early teens......seems a tinge unusual for a girl that age to
'set her cap' at someone so much older.
I am not doubting the words were said, I am just wondering if they meant Brandy had been actively pursuing such a goal for 17 years.
It wasn't Pastor Paulson that said it. It was Danny who said it to Pastor Paulson, and then pastor Paulson came over to me and in a bit of shock told me what Danny had told him.
Mind you, August 5, 2006, was not a full month after Linda's daughter had issued her signed statement alleging that Danny Shelton had sexually assaulted her by touching her in inappropriate ways and then claiming, "I thought you were your mom."
If Danny was joking instead of lying when he said that Brandy had chased him for 17 years, then he shouldn't think Linda's planting a pregnancy test for him to find was such a stupid joke.
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Danny Shelton accused his wife of committing adultery.
Then later he tried to lead people to think that he had never done such a thing.
I would ask him if he could explain the discrepancy.
What we are finding is that Danny Lee Shelton cannot explain anything, including where all the evidence is. I love the latest story on the phone call recording: yes, he has a recording; yes, Linda is talking with the doctor about secret rondezvous; No, you cannot have a copy because only Danny can interpret what is "really" being said; And why would you need it anyway? His board believes him and the General Conference believes him, so why would you not simply believe him??? Why, Danny Lee Shelton? Because YOU cannot be trusted and you are almost always factually challenged!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
Since you have never talked with Danny you wouldn't have a clue as to what he thinks, feels, knows or has. Once again your "sources" always fall slightly short of the truth. I have never heard Danny or anyone close to him that knows the situation say only he can interpret. In fact, the board, the pastor, and several that counseled with Linda heard and saw the evidence and came to their own conclusion. Guess what it was????
As far as your legal expenses, filing fees, phone, whatever....How are you paying for those when you said you only had 2.00 in your bankruptcy filings. We know you haven't had a real job in sometime so who is financially supporting you through this? Afterall a guy has to eat, pay utilties, buy gas etc etc. I can think of only 3 options.
1. Your wife is working and supporting you
2. An outsider is supporting you
3. You are on welfare
You insist on openess and transparency and you want to know every nickel that DS has so let's take a look at your finances...shall we?
SAM,
Again, you demonstrate delusional mis-statements!!! And how would you know if I have talked with Danny or how many e-mails he has responded to.
Danny probably forgets that he visited AUC and stayed at the Inn and we hosted he and his wife and a handful of others. He even ate breakfast with us!!!
And if you would like copies of all the DLS e-mail communications we have accumulated, come on by sometime and bring your suitcase as you will be a few days catching up on the reading!!!
Sam, I understand it really hurts to loose, but get use to it!!! You have lost!!! Find a new messiah and do a thorough background before you cling and defend. Will do wonders for your self respect as the juggernaut of litigation grinds 3ABN and DLS into the dust best represented as the "chaffe" and should be disposed of the
same way!!! Let the wind carry them away, as it should and most certainly will!!!
Avoid being part of the "chaffe" Sam and watch for your own soul. Do not tie it to the fortunes of 3ABN unless we were to see a sudden reformation.
Pardon the quote but just can't help myself "...a pig with lipstick is still a pig...".
Gailon Arthur Joy
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Hmm, thought I would interject here as I see it. (Rumor Mill) Just a lay person with much experience after raising large family, and business. Adventist all my life and plus 4 generations behind me of which means nothing. Read all the books of EGW to decide for what reason Adventists still cannot be in unity on several doctrines. The only 3 things I found after years of Sabbath school and church is that most Adventists have been lax in reading straight through every single last sentence of every single book the last message that was given by the Holy Spirit. I' ve done it, outlined it for my own purpose and that is because I asked God that if I did this He would not let me believe a lie and Told Him he promised me the truth. I have been greatly appreciative for my experience in that. No. 2 is IF they have not done that they use their own opinions and follow after somebody else and take quotes for their own benefit. Same as what is done in the Bible. No 3 Is that true people that talk the talk will walk the walk. And the fruits of this will not produce RUMOR.
Now what I consider Rumor is what the Bible says about shunning all appearances of evil. Now what was that stated for? Was it stated that your brethren should not have cause to wonder about the filtration of their sacred trust, worship, and peace?
Now for both sides of the Rumor, one for truth and one false. It is a fact one side claiming false and the other side sees the appearances. Then you state that you cannot always believe what you see. I believe some you can and some you can't. But it is for sure that whether there has been adultery to be proved, tax evasion, molesting, hidden evil agenda that most can detect, discern, and feel cheated used and abused.
There is one thing you can do if you cannot believe any of this went on and you are on the protecting side. Stand back, open your eyes, forget your pocketbooks, turn the light on, and ask your self in wonder where and how did all of this extravaganza life style of DS come from and the fact of a quickie protrays the possibilities of all the above. (Cause and Affect Theory) Just that alone should let the true walkers of this last church try to protect the church. That is how I felt when I read the letter of DB of amazing facts (I really love him) that described everything being exonerated from the IRS. Believe me I know for a fact on how courts and gov. work along with the corruptions as you all may now see. EGW states that in the end almost no stability will be seen anywhere. No truth, No justice, No peace. But the truth to such appearances are there for the seeing of the results being the fruit of the matter. No way out of it. Nothing can be hid.The church pew has paid the bill!!! I supported them too. Gailon was simply showing the figures to the talkers and walkers that were being deceived from their honest gifts to the Lord and His purposes. Then there is the Adventists that do not care either. When I saw and heard the Extravaganza's I wanted to turn the light off and never see that evil again. With these appearances I believe it happened. Or there would be peace, unity and ready for what is to come.
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Might ask if he has ever videotaped some high school baseball games and put them up for satellite viewing?
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Might ask if he has ever videotaped some high school baseball games and put them up for satellite viewing?
This questions brings to mind many more questions.
If this is true, did Danny use 3ABN equipment and workers?
If so, he should have receipts showing where he rented the equipment; paid for the air time; and paid the workers out of his own pocket, right?
If not, he should be able to explain just exactly how this spread the gospel to the world, right?
If it was donors funds that were used for this event, did the donors agree that this was an activity they would approve of?
If this was done, was this done to Glorify God or to glorify Danny?
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Or one might ask if some girls high school basketball games were recorded and then uplinked to a satellite on 3ABN's dime?
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Or one might ask if some girls high school basketball games were recorded and then uplinked to a satellite on 3ABN's dime?
Are you serious? First of all, why would Danny have 3ABN doing anything with girl's high school basketball games? According to the ASI/OCI types that Danny promotes around the world constantly, and they follow the teaching of EGW, as 3ABN claims to, in abhoring all forms of competetive sports. That is as per EGW.
That aside, was there a reason why the high school girl's basketball games were recorded by 3ABN? Why did Danny want to do that? Also, what was the deal with the baseball games that 3ABN recorded and aired that you mentioned? Why would he do that? I thought he was busy doing the Lord's work and spreading the 3 angel's messages and other such things? Why was he involving 3ABN in high school girl's sports? Why?
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Ok, I give up - WHY?
Or one might ask if some girls high school basketball games were recorded and then uplinked to a satellite on 3ABN's dime?
Are you serious? First of all, why would Danny have 3ABN doing anything with girl's high school basketball games? According to the ASI/OCI types that Danny promotes around the world constantly, and they follow the teaching of EGW, as 3ABN claims to, in abhoring all forms of competetive sports. That is as per EGW.
That aside, was there a reason why the high school girl's basketball games were recorded by 3ABN? Why did Danny want to do that? Also, what was the deal with the baseball games that 3ABN recorded and aired that you mentioned? Why would he do that? I thought he was busy doing the Lord's work and spreading the 3 angel's messages and other such things? Why was he involving 3ABN in high school girl's sports? Why?
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In the midwest, high school sports in those small towns are popular events. 3ABN's Director, for some reason, insisted that these games be recorded and uplinked. His daughter wasn't playing in those games. I wonder if the staff involved wondered why they had to do this?
I wonder if the Director thought he was doing someone a favor?
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What's this all about?
I don't remember seeing anything like this on 3ABN. ???
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In the midwest, high school sports in those small towns are popular events. 3ABN's Director, for some reason, insisted that these games be recorded and uplinked. His daughter wasn't playing in those games. I wonder if the staff involved wondered why they had to do this?
I wonder if the Director thought he was doing someone a favor?
CRYSTAL, you don't know the reason 3abn's Director insisted that these games be recorded and uplinked? Can you ask him? What is this 3abn Director's name? I would be happy to attempt contact with him to try to get to the bottom of this apparent mystery.
When did this take place?
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No need grandma. Some know exactly what Crystal is talking about. It's not a mystery.
CRYSTAL, you don't know the reason 3abn's Director insisted that these games be recorded and uplinked? Can you ask him? What is this 3abn Director's name? I would be happy to attempt contact with him to try to get to the bottom of this apparent mystery.
When did this take place?
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:dunno:
still a mystery to me. I would like to know also.
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OK. Have at it, grandma.
In the meantime, guide, check your PM.
:dunno:
still a mystery to me. I would like to know also.
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No need grandma. Some know exactly what Crystal is talking about. It's not a mystery.
That's correct.
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No need grandma. Some know exactly what Crystal is talking about. It's not a mystery.
That's correct.
Duane, some may know exactly what Crystal is talking about. Apparently, from the replies and queries of others, it is still a mystery to Guide4Him, Daryl, sonshineonme and Habanero.
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I do not know either, and neither do I know if it is only curiosity that drives some to want to know? Do I have the right to know that?
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I do not know either, and neither do I know if it is only curiosity that drives some to want to know? Do I have the right to know that?
Interesting point, Johann and worth consideration and discussion, IMO. Where do we draw the line on what is appropriate to want to know and what is better left between the person and God.
Why do some bring up questions that raise the curiosity in others. Do they really want to know? Do they have the right to ask?
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I do not know either, and neither do I know if it is only curiosity that drives some to want to know? Do I have the right to know that?
It would only be curiosity that would drive the media as well. Yet, most here seem in favor of that.
This was simply another stab at implying improper use of 3ABN assests . If it did happen, was improper why hint and drop partial statements.
Usually when things are left to speculation, the speculation is worse than the actual story
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oh so now you know what motivated CRYSTAL to post what she did? Have you crawled into her brain? huge lol! I don't think so!!
could it be that CRYSTAL was trying to make a very specific point to a very specific person about a very specific situation you obviously know nothing about?
naw - that couldn't be
I do not know either, and neither do I know if it is only curiosity that drives some to want to know? Do I have the right to know that?
It would only be curiosity that would drive the media as well. Yet, most here seem in favor of that.
This was simply another stab at implying improper use of 3ABN assests . If it did happen, was improper why hint and drop partial statements.
Usually when things are left to speculation, the speculation is worse than the actual story
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oh so now you know what motivated CRYSTAL to post what she did? Have you crawled into her brain? huge lol! I don't think so!!
could it be that CRYSTAL was trying to make a very specific point to a very specific person about a very specific situation you obviously know nothing about?
naw - that couldn't be
Quite frankly I don't think you are thinking at all with this post. What I do see is dropping barely disguised statements aiming at someone specific and it doing what it was intended,response and curiosity
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oh so now you know what motivated CRYSTAL to post what she did? Have you crawled into her brain? huge lol! I don't think so!!
could it be that CRYSTAL was trying to make a very specific point to a very specific person about a very specific situation you obviously know nothing about?
naw - that couldn't be
Quite frankly I don't think you are thinking at all with this post. What I do see is dropping barely disguised statements aiming at someone specific and it doing what it was intended,response and curiosity
I agree with you, Bonnie. If there is no further clarification forthcoming, from all indications to this point the questions posed have raised speculation and inferred guilt, apparently what was intended.
Could it be that the poster who has criticized your thoughts is skillfully and subtly revealing that said poster DOES know what motivated CRYSTAL to post what she did and HAS crawled into her brain?
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oh so now you know what motivated CRYSTAL to post what she did? Have you crawled into her brain? huge lol! I don't think so!!
could it be that CRYSTAL was trying to make a very specific point to a very specific person about a very specific situation you obviously know nothing about?
naw - that couldn't be
Quite frankly I don't think you are thinking at all with this post. What I do see is dropping barely disguised statements aiming at someone specific and it doing what it was intended,response and curiosity
Bonnie, isn't it amazing how this group has nothing better to do than to speculate about something so trivial? And, as you pointed out, trying to give the undercurrent that something was somehow wrong. Ridiculous.
Don't remember the exact details but years back I think the girls softball team had their state play offs, or world series, or something like that, held in West Frankfort. Yes in a small town that was a huge deal. They say teams came from all over the US. Anyway, one of the businessmen on the board feels that organizations such as three angels should be involved in the community. He offered to pay (his business has designated money just for this type of thing) to air these playoffs for the community. It gave 3abn & the church a lot of good PR.
Sorry nothing sinister or underhanded going on.
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Bonnie, isn't it amazing how this group has nothing better to do than to speculate about something so trivial? And, as you pointed out, trying to give the undercurrent that something was somehow wrong. Ridiculous.
Don't remember the exact details but years back I think the girls softball team had their state play offs, or world series, or something like that, held in West Frankfort. Yes in a small town that was a huge deal. They say teams came from all over the US. Anyway, one of the businessmen on the board feels that organizations such as three angels should be involved in the community. He offered to pay (his business has designated money just for this type of thing) to air these playoffs for the community. It gave 3abn & the church a lot of good PR.
Sorry nothing sinister or underhanded going on.
If it is something that others should be concerned about, why not out with it. It must be about time for another sabbath breaker to be ferreted out
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Bonnie, isn't it amazing how this group has nothing better to do than to speculate about something so trivial? And, as you pointed out, trying to give the undercurrent that something was somehow wrong. Ridiculous.
Don't remember the exact details but years back I think the girls softball team had their state play offs, or world series, or something like that, held in West Frankfort. Yes in a small town that was a huge deal. They say teams came from all over the US. Anyway, one of the businessmen on the board feels that organizations such as three angels should be involved in the community. He offered to pay (his business has designated money just for this type of thing) to air these playoffs for the community. It gave 3abn & the church a lot of good PR.
Sorry nothing sinister or underhanded going on.
If it is something that others should be concerned about, why not out with it. It must be about time for another sabbath breaker to be ferreted out
I remember discussion about this incident on BSDA, before the birth of Adventtalk. If this is the same instance that CRYSTAL was referring to, it has been discussed by many from all sides.
You can find further information on this subject by clicking on thislink to my post on BSDA in "Larry Romrell:Adventist Connecitons?" thread during discussion about donation to local sports program (http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=15002&view=findpost&p=212862). As you will find, I was replying to a post by Snoopy that linked to an Atoday article.
EGW did make statements against some sports, so there is probably a quote that could be invoked to put another 3abn board member through a similar wringer as has been done with Pastor Phipps and Mr. McKee. Perhaps that was where CRYSTAL was headed. Or maybe it was just prepping the crowd for SDAminister to take his next round of shots.
In light of this, I guess what I would ask Danny Shelton would be "Did the community appreciate the donation to the sports program?".
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Bonnie, isn't it amazing how this group has nothing better to do than to speculate about something so trivial? And, as you pointed out, trying to give the undercurrent that something was somehow wrong. Ridiculous.
Almost as ridiuculous as some of the things you have posted about me. BTW, I notice you still haven't reponded to my post. Not surprising, really. A lot of people cower and hide when confronted with their own wrongdoing.
Don't remember the exact details but years back I think the girls softball team had their state play offs, or world series, or something like that, held in West Frankfort. Yes in a small town that was a huge deal. They say teams came from all over the US. Anyway, one of the businessmen on the board feels that organizations such as three angels should be involved in the community. He offered to pay (his business has designated money just for this type of thing) to air these playoffs for the community. It gave 3abn & the church a lot of good PR.
All this "I think, I've heard, I'm told" nonsense from your crowd is wearing thin. You know exactly what happened.
Sam, you don't air something "for the community" by uplinking to satellite. Your argument is absurd.
Ask around Thompsonville and West Frankfort and see how much "good PR" 3ABN has in the area. I dare you.
Sorry nothing sinister or underhanded going on.
That remans to be seen. The very fact that you are on here defending it raises my suspicions.
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Almost as ridiuculous as some of the things you have posted about me. BTW, I notice you still haven't reponded to my post. Not surprising, really. A lot of people cower and hide when confronted with their own wrongdoing.
Is this what Bob could be doing instead of answering
All this "I think, I've heard, I'm told" nonsense from your crowd is wearing thin. You know exactly what happened.
Isn't this exactly what Bob has done concerning his "confidential' statement involving Jim Gilley? Someone told him ,the someone cannot be named as it is confidential.
. That remans to be seen. The very fact that you are on here defending it raises my suspicions.
Is it correct that with suspicions now raised you did not have a firm reason to believe this was true before?
[/quote]
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In recording and airing these high school girls sports games on satellite, maybe the Director thought that by providing exposure of someone's athleticism, that would entitle him to some reward.
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In recording and airing these high school girls sports games on satellite, maybe the Director thought that by providing exposure of someone's athleticism, that would entitle him to some reward.
Why the maybes. What is the motivation for speculating?
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In recording and airing these high school girls sports games on satellite, maybe the Director thought that by providing exposure of someone's athleticism, that would entitle him to some reward.
So now you are taking the story up a notch by inferring that there was a specific athlete that the Director had designs on. Yet, you have not given any basic facts to those here who don't know the situation.
Without supporting facts, your motivation still appears to be attempting to create provocative speculation about the Director's actions, and now even the motivation behind them. Yesterday, a poster said the following to Bonnie:
"oh so now you know what motivated CRYSTAL to post what she did? Have you crawled into her brain? huge lol! I don't think so!!"
With a few changes, that statement better applies to your posts, IMO:
"oh so now you know what motivated the Director to do what he did? Have you crawled into his brain? huge lol! I don't think so!!"
Are you going to continue to titillate the audience with inferences or do you have something real to report?
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Almost as ridiuculous as some of the things you have posted about me. BTW, I notice you still haven't reponded to my post. Not surprising, really. A lot of people cower and hide when confronted with their own wrongdoing.
Is this what Bob could be doing instead of answering
You'll have to ask Bob. He doesn't clear his posts through me.
All this "I think, I've heard, I'm told" nonsense from your crowd is wearing thin. You know exactly what happened.
Isn't this exactly what Bob has done concerning his "confidential' statement involving Jim Gilley? Someone told him ,the someone cannot be named as it is confidential.
No. What I'm talking about is people saying "I've been told" or "from what I understand" when you know full well they have the details. Very tiresome.
. That remans to be seen. The very fact that you are on here defending it raises my suspicions.
Is it correct that with suspicions now raised you did not have a firm reason to believe this was true before?
No. I always wondered about it, but it's even more suspect now with all that has come to light.
[/quote]
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Some persons have proclivities. It could be one thing, it could be many things. It may be many things leading to one thing, or one thing leading to many things.
Do we ever know for sure?
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Some proclivities are healthy pursuits. They can lead into character-building career paths. Such as athletics.
Other proclivities can be destructive. These are often stealthily masked by the undertaker as good intentions or favors.
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Might ask him if he went to some St. Louis Cardinal games in the late 1990's with a relative?
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What a perfect word choice.
Are you going to continue to titillate the audience with inferences or do you have something real to report?
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Might ask him if he went to some St. Louis Cardinal games in the late 1990's with a relative?
And what would be the answer to this clearly leading and decisively interesting question?
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Might ask why he stopped recording and uplinking those high school girls games after 1998?
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Might ask why he stopped recording and uplinking those high school girls games after 1998?
Those ARE interesting questions, aren't they, Crystal? ;)
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Obviously the audience is bursting with curiousity - given the number of replies and attempts to clarify.
Crystal, if you have facts that should be known by others - why not just tell the appropriate persons?
These posts just seem to be trying to stir up curiosity - you are talking 10 years ago. I am sure there are people on this board who know the events to which
you are referring - for the rest of us, obviously people have more important things on their minds.
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Some people have memories that can stretch back several years.
If we treat our family, relatives, friends, even strangers well, then we can expect to be treated well.
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Some people have memories that can stretch back several years.
If we treat our family, relatives, friends, even strangers well, then we can expect to be treated well.
Interesting, Crystal.
Do you have more information for us?
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If Crystal were really Crystal, then Crystal would have enough information having sufficient value that the National Enquirer would pay handsomely for the story and we could all read the details with dates, times and places on the newstands.
The best part is the grand finale with the car on the front lawn!!!
Crystal, do you need a contact person at the National Enquirer? I'm just not sure this is the correct forum for a tell-all with Grandma Nettie and Bonnie, the ever present watchful eyes, amongst other tender eyes, waiting with baited breathe.
Besides, the litigation resulting would have to come right back to Massachussets US District Court, Central Division, per order of the court, and we need a couple more weeks to get our motions in and heard. Could you at least wait a month or two before satisfying the curiosity of these "dis-interested" Adventist Media watchers? Or perhaps you could post it over on BSDA where they "REALLY" don't care!!! And don't forget the 3ABNTALK option!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Gailon, I'm glad you brought up the other forums because I have a question. Didn't Danny and 3ABN sue you and Bob for trademark infringement regarding your use of "3ABN" in www.save3ABN.com? By the same argument, wouldn't Danny and 3ABN take issue with any site that use "3ABN" in their name?
If Crystal were really Crystal, then Crystal would have enough information having sufficient value that the National Enquirer would pay handsomely for the story and we could all read the details with dates, times and places on the newstands.
The best part is the grand finale with the car on the front lawn!!!
Crystal, do you need a contact person at the National Enquirer? I'm just not sure this is the correct forum for a tell-all with Grandma Nettie and Bonnie, the ever present watchful eyes, amongst other tender eyes, waiting with baited breathe.
Besides, the litigation resulting would have to come right back to Massachussets US District Court, Central Division, per order of the court, and we need a couple more weeks to get our motions in and heard. Could you at least wait a month or two before satisfying the curiosity of these "dis-interested" Adventist Media watchers? Or perhaps you could post it over on BSDA where they "REALLY" don't care!!! And don't forget the 3ABNTALK option!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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You are presuming there was any validity to their malicious claim...it had no foundation at bar, given the current caselaw and so their "trademark infringement" claim was yet another fictional allegation. Proof prima Facie was the fact that they never filed a motion for temporary injunction, obviously expected right out of the gate, but which never came. Of course they knew we were prepared for that one and never launched their sure to fail effort!!!
For us, the claim gave us assured Federal Jurisdiction, closing the door to a rule 81 conversion to a State law claim in Illinois. Eventually, it would have suffered severe fatality upon a dispositive motion strategically made.
Therefore, 3ABNTalk is not known to be a commercial enterprise and shows all the characteristics of the 3ABN Founder pefectly and so suits me to have it exist, and since it does not violate any REAL TRADEMARK statute, let it be...besides loads of good information surfaces there, not the least of which is proof of conspiracy and seriously vicious defamation worthy of Danny Lee Shelton / 3ABN supporters. They continue to serve a very valuable role as propagators of the DLS business interests in 3ABn and we trust they keep up the fine job!!!
Besides, where would Bonnie have to go to vent her venom if they did not exist?
Personally, I feel there is way too much speech suppression at Adventtalk and while administrative moderators find some of the banter "troubling", I find it informative and opportunistic.
It is clear their needs to be another news reporting sight that states the findings and the history and perhaps allows blog responses for the victims to vent their venom to the news stories, as I am sure there will be vigorous disagreement with at least some of the content.
I do find their curiosity regarding Adventtalk and other sights and forums profound!!! They are so use to working with and supporting liars, they have little choice but to assume that Adventtalk does the same!!!
One must wonder the reason for thier profound curiosity...it is clear they believe I am behind them all and I leave them to their fatal conclusions as I do not know, and do not want to know, the facts!!!
I was surprised to find that Daryl resigned!!! And only found that out from reading 3ABNTalk. (I assume by deduction that it is correct, right?) What a good source of information!!! Too bad it was not all the truth!!!
As far as I am concerned, the more the merrier!!! And the more "infringing" the happier I am!!!
I would like to "infringe" on Brenda Walsh and suppose I shall have to soon enough!!! Think they will do us a big favor and open a BrendaWalshTalk.com sight?
Maybe Crystal and Brenda could share and compare notes!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
Gailon, I'm glad you brought up the other forums because I have a question. Didn't Danny and 3ABN sue you and Bob for trademark infringement regarding your use of "3ABN" in www.save3ABN.com? By the same argument, wouldn't Danny and 3ABN take issue with any site that use "3ABN" in their name?
If Crystal were really Crystal, then Crystal would have enough information having sufficient value that the National Enquirer would pay handsomely for the story and we could all read the details with dates, times and places on the newstands.
The best part is the grand finale with the car on the front lawn!!!
Crystal, do you need a contact person at the National Enquirer? I'm just not sure this is the correct forum for a tell-all with Grandma Nettie and Bonnie, the ever present watchful eyes, amongst other tender eyes, waiting with baited breathe.
Besides, the litigation resulting would have to come right back to Massachussets US District Court, Central Division, per order of the court, and we need a couple more weeks to get our motions in and heard. Could you at least wait a month or two before satisfying the curiosity of these "dis-interested" Adventist Media watchers? Or perhaps you could post it over on BSDA where they "REALLY" don't care!!! And don't forget the 3ABNTALK option!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Gailon,
I might not agree with you in everything you say, but I think the above post is excellent. We do need much openness, and my own preference would also be not to ban anyone who feels she/he has anything important to say. I think we have been way too careful. There are always some who have a lot of bothersome venom they need to release. I much rather just ignore what they say than to ban them. On the other hand I find the hatred expressed against you just hilarious. Advent Talk is an excellent vehicle for such entertainment as it also reveals how much influence the work you have done is having.
I find it interesting how even Danny Shelton is roasting me on 3ABNTALK. He reveals himself there as he is also exposed on
www.tobeone.blog.com
As I have stated so many times in the past, Danny Shelton is Danny Shelton's worst enemy, even though he blames others for his own woes.
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Gailon,
You didn't know I resigned?
Gone to research my PMs regarding that.
Better still, unless my announcement was removed, which I will check to see if it is still here, I clearly announced my resignation here at Advent Talk.
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I would like to "infringe" on Brenda Walsh and suppose I shall have to soon enough!!! Think they will do us a big favor and open a BrendaWalshTalk.com sight?
:ROFL:
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Someone might ask former 3ABN employees if they knew why girls high school sports were being recorded?
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Someone might ask former 3ABN employees if they knew why girls high school sports were being recorded?
Wish I could shed some light, but it was after my time.
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And why was it only the girls sports? Why not the boys sports? Why did it not continue?
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Does "doing the Lord's work" mean that someone spends a lot of time trying to treat and impress a much younger female, even if they are a 2nd cousin?
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Does "doing the Lord's work" mean that someone spends a lot of time trying to treat and impress a much younger female, even if they are a 2nd cousin?
Obviously not.
When she graduated, did he buy her a car? Just curious. If so, what kind of car was it?
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Does "doing the Lord's work" mean that someone spends a lot of time trying to treat and impress a much younger female, even if they are a 2nd cousin?
Crystal, since we were called liars in Federal Court for allegedly suggesting that Danny Shelton had had inappropriate relationships, do you know how we can contact the lady you are alluding to in order to get her side of the story?
(I said "allegedly" because I am unaware of where I had made such an allegation.)
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I would like that information also. So would the Adventist community.
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I would also be very interested in this piece of factual information. :wave:
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It seems to me that we should have names named or the topic on the basketball game should drop.
:purr:
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Danny had an affair with a second cousin during her senior year of high school. He bought her a car. Some people might consider it hush money. Since CRYSTAL was the one who started this topic, let her be the one to supply further information.
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Whoa! We need some more facts before we should consider whether DS had that affair. What high school?
What are the exact dates? How old was the girl? Did anybody see them together? What kind of car and were was it bought? Did DS's family and friends see anything inappropriate? What is the girl's name? Did the girl tell any of her friends?
The reasons for more facts is beware of a trap of someone feeding you false information and because if the accusation can be proved then the resignation of DS from 3ABN can be called for by many people and not just Bob or Gailon. The accusation if not true is defamatory against DS. Slow treading is required here. It is probably a good idea to prove the accusation from at least two sources with one being the girl herself. Written and audio statements should be obtained because this is most likely the strongest evidence, if proved true, for Bob's and Gailon's case up to this point.
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Wendall, as far as falling into a trap due to being fed false information, I was under the impression that this incident was generally know within the Shelton family, and perhaps even by some of their associates...
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Gailon,
You didn't know I resigned?
Gone to research my PMs regarding that.
Better still, unless my announcement was removed, which I will check to see if it is still here, I clearly announced my resignation here at Advent Talk.
I did not know you had resigned, and did not get that pm. Regardless, I wish you the very best and will look forward to your continued participation in a less "stressful" roll.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Someone should ask Danny if he's ever attempted to quiet someone by purchasing them a car?
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Gailon,
Based on what you posted here, you don't even know a pinch of the story surrounding my resignation.
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Gailon,
Based on what you posted here, you don't even know a pinch of the story surrounding my resignation.
Dear Darryl: When I got home from a ten-day hospital stay I was shocked to see your resignation! :o What was that 'pinch' that happened causing this terrible conclusion? And, Yes, Thank You, for staying on with us in your new position as 'one of us' posters. :pals:
GrammieT :dogwag:
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It's good to feel loved here by some of you members. :)
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GrammieT,
Ten-days in the hospital?? Bless your heart! I trust things are OK. I'll say some prayers for you!
Snoopy
Gailon,
Based on what you posted here, you don't even know a pinch of the story surrounding my resignation.
Dear Darryl: When I got home from a ten-day hospital stay I was shocked to see your resignation! :o What was that 'pinch' that happened causing this terrible conclusion? And, Yes, Thank You, for staying on with us in your new position as 'one of us' posters. :pals:
GrammieT :dogwag:
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GrammieT,
Ten-days in the hospital?? Bless your heart! I trust things are OK. I'll say some prayers for you!
Snoopy
Gailon,
Based on what you posted here, you don't even know a pinch of the story surrounding my resignation.
Dear Darryl: When I got home from a ten-day hospital stay I was shocked to see your resignation! :o What was that 'pinch' that happened causing this terrible conclusion? And, Yes, Thank You, for staying on with us in your new position as 'one of us' posters. :pals:
GrammieT :dogwag:
Dear Snoopy:
:TY: God is GOOD! :thumbsup: He is helping me deal with the symptoms of a long time of fighting with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia (11 years now). Five years ago I picked up a triple bacterial lung disease which was treated a little less aggressively than it could have been and it became a monster :hamster: which Satan has used to discourage me big-time :hot:. BUT NO MORE! :rabbit: :caution: :thumbsup: Praise the Lord, He has healed me and complete healing will be manifested in His time and then my joy will be FULL!! :amen: :amen: :amen:
GrammieT :dogwag:
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I pray God will continue to give you the strength to do His will and to enjoy your loved ones, Grammie T.
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I pray God will continue to give you the strength to do His will and to enjoy your loved ones, Grammie T.
:TY: Emma: My family is such a blessing to me! My kids are very helpful in bringing me the things I need from the store and sometimes that means that my little ones get to stay with me for a short while too. What fun we will have when I am again able to take care of them instead of them having to go to daycare. Everyday is better than the day before. :purr:
God is Love!
GrammieT :dogwag:
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Gailon,
Based on what you posted here, you don't even know a pinch of the story surrounding my resignation.
I must confess to be so involved with the ebb and flow of litigation and struggling with the economic mess that I stupidly opted to address, I have not really followed the story. I know there were issues brewing from the PM's that I did receive but suspect that was the proverbial "tip of the iceburg".
Therefore, I must confess to general and specific ignorance!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Has anyone at 3ABN got the ***** to speak up to DS and tell him he's a fraud? It's so easy for the rest of us to see it... How many more people going to be used by him?
Edited to remove offensive language.
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Has anyone at 3ABN got the ***** to speak up to DS and tell him he's a fraud? It's so easy for the rest of us to see it... How many more people going to be used by him?
About 100,000!!! Not bad, huh? 5000 on a regular basis and the rest from time to time. Which portion would you like to enlighten? We could split it up and start working on it tomorrow...or better yet, write a history and do a book tour!!! Have to dodge a few tomatoes, but it would be worth it!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
Edited to removed offensive language from quoted post.
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Has anyone at 3ABN got the ***** to speak up to DS and tell him he's a fraud? It's so easy for the rest of us to see it... How many more people going to be used by him?
Dear Crystal:
There is a perfectly good word to use in your question (i.e. 'courage' rather than *****) that would convey your meaning without being so crass! Please use a better word choice next time, okay? It is the use of words and phrases like this that bring on a 'flaming' atmosphere that is not needed nor wanted on AdventTalk, IMHO! :hamster:
GrammieT :dogwag:
Edited to remove offensive language from quoted post.
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I agree with GrammieT that a better word choice was in order.
"The disciples of Jesus were noted for the purity of their language, and in order fully to deceive his questioners, and justify his assumed character, Peter now denied his Master with cursing and swearing" (DA 712).
We should be noted for the purity of our language too.
But my comments are certainly not meant to discourage Crystal from continuing to ask probing questions. The more the merrier, I would think.
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I agree with GrammieT that a better word choice was in order.
"The disciples of Jesus were noted for the purity of their language, and in order fully to deceive his questioners, and justify his assumed character, Peter now denied his Master with cursing and swearing" (DA 712).
We should be noted for the purity of our language too.
But my comments are certainly not meant to discourage Crystal from continuing to ask probing questions. The more the merrier, I would think.
:TY: Bob: I agree wholeheartedly! Keep up your probing commentary CRYSTAL. :thumbsup:
GrammieT :dogwag:
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Danny's proclivities toward younger females is shown in his quick divorce and remarriage to someone much younger. Does this guy think that "doing the Lord's work" makes him entitled to exempt himself from Christian principles? Does anyone within 3ABN dare speak up about this?
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I heard that around a year ago someone looked out the window, saw them riding in a sports car, and said, "There goes Jim and Tammy (sp?)," and got raked over the coals for it. No idea who.
If we spoke up and got sued, what would happen to an insider who spoke up?
"Once to every man and nation, comes the moment to decide."
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We all know of SDA pastors that have lost their credentials for having affairs. They should'nt continue in the ministry if they're doing that. Danny is no pastor, but what exempts him?
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Not being under the employment of the is what exempts him.
I can say this with great confidence, as a union president told me to my face that he would have been "fired" as stated by him.
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These 3ABN people must be living in a dictatorship.
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Not being under the employment of the is what exempts him.
I know of perhaps three heads of supporting ministries who ended up elsewhere. So his not being employed by a conference doesn't really exempt him.
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It is nice to feel supported isn't it??
It's good to feel loved here by some of you members. :)
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Boy, you aren't kidding! The first time I walked in to the office holding a cup of coffee there were gasps and white faces!
These 3ABN people must be living in a dictatorship.
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The news media, lots of people and various politicians are upset that executives from the "big three" auto makers flew to Washington, DC in private jets to beg for money. For a number of years that was how the 3ABN execs arrived at almost every rally to beg for money. That is still the way that most major televangelists travel around on their money begging trips. Nothing new.
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But most of these 3ABN employees have probably at one time or another been employed by the SDA church. They know what ethical standards the church upholds. So how are all these blind or conveniently naive to what DS does? No female seems off-limits to him. Not even high school girls, cousins, etc...
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Some may not know. Some may not want to know. Some may have their own ethical challenges.
Who knows?
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ADMIN HAT ON
Post edited to remove inappropriate content. Sam, you need to watch yourself.
ADMIN HAT OFF
Some may not know. Some may not want to know. Some may have their own ethical challenges.
Who knows?
Speaking of ethical challenges...is it true that your *********************?
In how many conferences have you applied for a pastor position? How many times have you been turned down?
How many times have you applied to ASI and turned down?
Also, does Joy attend church?
Thanks in advance for your short concise answers.
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Speaking of ethical challenges...is it true that you had an affair sammy? Thanks in advance for your short, concise answer!
Some may not know. Some may not want to know. Some may have their own ethical challenges.
Who knows?
Speaking of ethical challenges...is it true that your *************************?
In how many conferences have you applied for a pastor position? How many times have you been turned down?
How many times have you applied to ASI and turned down?
Also, does Joy attend church?
Thanks in advance for your short concise answers.
Edited to remove inappropriate content in quoted post.
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Speaking of ethical challenges...is it true that your ***************************?
In how many conferences have you applied for a pastor position? How many times have you been turned down?
How many times have you applied to ASI and turned down?
Also, does Joy attend church?
Thanks in advance for your short concise answers.
I don't believe you're in any position to be asking questions.
Edited to remove inappropriate content in quoted post.
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Sam, If you already know the answers than just report those as factually true. In otherwords you must have had a good faith belief in knowing the answers before you asked them. I am sure you just didn't make them up! First of all the questions and insinuating answers are meant to discredit certain people. I am not sure that it is relevant to discredit those people here. The questions are to be for DS.
Food for thought. The reason a person doesn't get a particular job is the employer may not be hiring and has not hired for a while. Does that mean the person applying for a job is somehow unqualified? Maybe that same person could move to another part of the country and be given a job carte blanche but because he is a great father doesn't want to disrupt his kids school arrangement. If you do not have the facts surrounding an issue you can come to a ridiculous conclusion. Investigate! ;D
Also, it seems as if certain people here know your history.
Asking questions and getting true answers from certain 3ABN people could really help solve this matter.
For example DS did you have an affair with a high school girl in the recent past?
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Yes, it is nice to feel supported, however, it definitely isn't nice to feel unsupported. :wave:
It is nice to feel supported isn't it??
It's good to feel loved here by some of you members. :)
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Oh boy - don't I know how that feels!! :wave:
Yes, it is nice to feel supported, however, it definitely isn't nice to feel unsupported. :wave:
It is nice to feel supported isn't it??
It's good to feel loved here by some of you members. :)
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Sam, how many times have you or your spouse applied for a job and been turned down? Is it possible that either of you will be looking for a job soon?
As for your ASI question, that sounds like a problem with ASI not Bob Pickle! Personally, what little I know about ASI is too much. I am NOT impressed at this point!!
And how would Bob Pickle know if Gailon Joy attends church? Who cares if he does or doesn't? Do you attend church Sam?
ADMIN HAT ON
Post edited to remove inappropriate content. Sam, you need to watch yourself.
ADMIN HAT OFF
Some may not know. Some may not want to know. Some may have their own ethical challenges.
Who knows?
Speaking of ethical challenges...is it true that your *********************?
In how many conferences have you applied for a pastor position? How many times have you been turned down?
How many times have you applied to ASI and turned down?
Also, does Joy attend church?
Thanks in advance for your short concise answers.
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The people who had Jesus crucified were not turned down for pastoral positions, they were members of the Sanhedrin, who were the GC of that time, or the Pharisees, the ASI of their day. They ALL attended church every Sabbath.
Jesus never had a job working for the church, he was never a member of the Pharisees/ASI, and his view of the Sabbath and church was absolutely radical and abhorrent to all of the good church goers of his day.
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I guess that all depends on what type of support a person is looking for. :wave:
Oh boy - don't I know how that feels!! :wave:
Yes, it is nice to feel supported, however, it definitely isn't nice to feel unsupported. :wave:
It is nice to feel supported isn't it??
It's good to feel loved here by some of you members. :)
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A good question might be, was your wife aware of the inordinate amount of time that was spent focusing on high school girls sports and a particular interest in one of the athletes? Was your wife aware that 3ABN employees were being utilized for this purpose?
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Has any 3ABN employee asked DS why he took such a strong interest in the activities of a female high school student? Why he often treated her to dinner and took her to sporting events, without anyone else being there, not even his wife? Why he insisted on being alone with her?
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CRYSTAL,
Are these facts or rumours that you are posting about here?
In other words, can they be verfied by eye-witnesses?
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And the answer is? I tend to think the answer is no based upon the lack of factual evidence presented to support the accusations. ;D :hamster:
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A good question might be, was your wife aware of the inordinate amount of time that was spent focusing on high school girls sports and a particular interest in one of the athletes? Was your wife aware that 3ABN employees were being utilized for this purpose?
Maybe you should email and ask Linda Shelton directly for the answers since the interview with Danny Shelton on CA has already been completed.
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Somehow I don't think that Crystal is the one actually looking for the answers... :dunno:
A good question might be, was your wife aware of the inordinate amount of time that was spent focusing on high school girls sports and a particular interest in one of the athletes? Was your wife aware that 3ABN employees were being utilized for this purpose?
Maybe you should email and ask Linda Shelton directly for the answers since the interview with Danny Shelton on CA has already been completed.
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DS do you consider yourself the sole owner of 3ABN?
If you were forced to resign for any reasons would you claim any financial interest in 3ABN for yourself, family, or others?
Does Walt Thompson act independently when preforming board duties or is he told what to do by others?
Has Walt ever disagreed with you over any issue that would be considered to be more than just trivial?
Are you going to be willing to be deposed by Bob and Gailon?
Do you think you will have to take the fifth amendment in a deposition with Bob and Gailon?
Do you consider yourself a good Seventh-Day Adventist Christian example?
How are the board members at 3ABN selected? Are they selected because they donated funds or assets or have a high net worth?
How does the board actually vote on an issue-for example to dismiss a current board member? Have the same methods been in effect since the inception of 3ABN to present?
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Why don't you contact Danny and see if he will answer your questions?
It would be interesting to see if his manner of answering honest questions has improved over the last four years.
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Boy, you aren't kidding! The first time I walked in to the office holding a cup of coffee there were gasps and white faces!
That reminds me of something. We had a meeting in the production department one day. Danny was lecturing us on what kinds of food to bring and not bring for lunch. He said it was not only an SDA issue, but he was concerned for our health as well. He told of all the evils of sodas, white bread, meat, etc.
You should have seen the look on his face when I said, "Don't Little Debbie cakes have a lot of white sugar in them?" ::)
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Doesn't the greater good the money from Little Debbies does over ride the white sugar and fat health problem? Doesn't the greater good the SDA programs aired on 3ABN and the converts made over ride any possible damage the double standards manifested by the organization might do to any individual? Since they are connected in some way with the SDA church, maybe I will not die of a heart attack if I live on a steady diet of only Little Debbies. Since 3ABN is making converts, maybe I should overlook any harm it might be doing to any individual. Wasn't that the argument about crucifying Jesus, the good of the nation or the individual?
If the argument about unclean meats not being sanctified by praying over them is valid, doesn't that principle appy here? Is something good just because it is SDA? Are we as vulnerable to groupthink as any other group? I'm not saying don't eat junk food at all. I'm saying how something is perceived doesn't alter what it really is.
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:ROFL: You are SUCH a troublemaker!! :ROFL:
Boy, you aren't kidding! The first time I walked in to the office holding a cup of coffee there were gasps and white faces!
That reminds me of something. We had a meeting in the production department one day. Danny was lecturing us on what kinds of food to bring and not bring for lunch. He said it was not only an SDA issue, but he was concerned for our health as well. He told of all the evils of sodas, white bread, meat, etc.
You should have seen the look on his face when I said, "Don't Little Debbie cakes have a lot of white sugar in them?" ::)
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Okay Snoopy this is right to the point. Can you agree to become a Illinois paparazzi with a microphone so some of us can get are questions answered and as a sidebar maybe see actions that are not appropriate for a leader of a independant minisrty to be involved with. ;D How else can I get access to have my questions answered? I would be willing to drive you from place to place-sorry no private airplane travel-so you could practice your new found talent of being a paparazzi and a investigative reporter. With a few donations their might be available snacks of your choice while you are conducting your job. Just think you might be able to write a book of your own with your experiences or become a speaker on the lecture circuit. :usa:
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That depends completely on the selection of snacks...and beverages...need beverages... :dogwag:
Okay Snoopy this is right to the point. Can you agree to become a Illinois paparazzi with a microphone so some of us can get are questions answered and as a sidebar maybe see actions that are not appropriate for a leader of a independant minisrty to be involved with. ;D How else can I get access to have my questions answered? I would be willing to drive you from place to place-sorry no private airplane travel-so you could practice your new found talent of being a paparazzi and a investigative reporter. With a few donations their might be available snacks of your choice while you are conducting your job. Just think you might be able to write a book of your own with your experiences or become a speaker on the lecture circuit. :usa:
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That depends completely on the selection of snacks...and beverages...need beverages... :dogwag:
I'll kick in on the beverages. What do you need? ;D
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Hey, very cool!! I'll give that some thought! Hey - why don't you just come with us, Duane? Wendall - do you have a limo?
Also, definitely need Little Debbies...
That depends completely on the selection of snacks...and beverages...need beverages... :dogwag:
I'll kick in on the beverages. What do you need? ;D
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That reminds me of something. We had a meeting in the production department one day. Danny was lecturing us on what kinds of food to bring and not bring for lunch. He said it was not only an SDA issue, but he was concerned for our health as well. He told of all the evils of sodas, white bread, meat, etc.
You should have seen the look on his face when I said, "Don't Little Debbie cakes have a lot of white sugar in them?" ::)
[/quote]
You know...the SDA diet plan always brings out the rebel in me.... ;D I just loves a Dr. Pepper from Sonic Drive In with lots of of yummy crushed sonic ice... :rabbit:
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You might ask if he's ever had a car appear on his lawn, unexpectedly?
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You might ask him if he is looking for donors to pay for personal appearance? . . .. It seems like his last one cost $25.000 - more that quite a few dresses and shoes. Appearance means a lot on International TV, so this might be quite essential. . .
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You might ask if he is looking for donors in general! I have yet to receive that 2007 Form 990! And I see that there is still no information on the Illinois Attorney General Charitable Database for 3ABN. That says that Illinois does not yet consider them to be in compliance with state regulations.
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You might ask what REALLY happened with Jim and Ann Greer.
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You might ask if he's ever had designs on a young Brazilian girl?
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The definition you have for designs could be construed by some including myself as potentially as intentionally or negligently misleading. What is your definition for designs as stated in your post? ;D An extremely important qualification for your credibility is do you have personal knowledge of your accusations? :usa: :help: :wave: :TY: :praying: :D :puppykisses: :canada: :rabbit: :dunno: :cool: :) :thumbsup: :cat: :purr: :dogwag:
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You might ask him if he is looking for donors to pay for personal appearance? . . .. It seems like his last one cost $25.000 - more that quite a few dresses and shoes. Appearance means a lot on International TV, so this might be quite essential. . .
So, how much can a couple of jackets and a few turtlenecks cost? :huh:
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Isn't it a shame that no medical insurance pays for hair transplantation?
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I wonder if the donors paid for the hair?
Isn't it a shame that no medical insurance pays for hair transplantation?
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Some would like to know more details... But those aren't important. Certain observers of these posts know exactly what is being referred to.
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Some would like to know more details... But those aren't important. Certain observers of these posts know exactly what is being referred to.
I dare say most can figure out what is being referred to. All of the insinuations, implications, and such contained within all the questions here are far from subtle..
What is lacking once again is any evidence or proof. I hope most know that also, even if "some" don't ever seem to require that before believing evil of another, and "some' others don't ever seem to provide that...
I am sure one of those "some"bodies will be along to evade that point or change the subject or focus at any time now..
..ian
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Given the fact that so many allegations have so much evidence in their support, Danny should simply answer the questions.
If Danny would publicly denounce Christians as enemies of the gospel simply because they were concerned about the IRS criminal investigation, if Danny would publicly trash his own ex-step-daughter's confidential statements alleging that he had sexually assaulted her, if Danny would do a public tribute to an alleged pedophile less than one month after new allegations had arisen, if Danny would threaten a non-Adventist pastor with a lawsuit because of those new allegations, certainly the alleged incidents that Crystal is referring to here may very well have happened. And Danny knows that thinking they might have is certainly reasonable.
Thus, Danny should simply answer the questions in an honest and forthright manner. And if he still can't do that after this many years, he should resign and leave 3ABN.
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Crystal,
If the things you are saying about Danny and his girl friends are true then why have they not been revealed in full and why have they been alluded to at this point in time? There is no reason not to reveal the facts if they are TRUE. DS is being accused of alot of things and it becomes easy to accuse him of things here on the forum because for the most part there is no accountability. Revealing any part of the allegations at this point in time, there can be a piling on DS mentality occurring, make them highly suspect for truth because they become more believable WITHOUT the facts. The more girls you mention the more suspect your allegations become without the FACTS. Now if you had revealed them say 6-8 years ago assuming that is when the alleged incidents occurred then they could become more believable. If what you are saying is true than you are a star witness at trial if you have the facts which includes personal knowledge. No facts=no witness=no credibility. :wave: :usa:
I will be counting the number of girls and the more that you mention the less the probability that the actions occurred WITHOUT PRODUCING THE FACTS. There are two in number as of this date. :wave: :dogwag:
Just put youself in DS's position. If somebody is going to accuse you of having an affair an never produce the facts then you cannot really defend yourself properly because there is just an accusation. Then to defend yourself you might have to sue for defamation and invasion of privacy. :usa: ;D
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Yeah Crystal, Gurl you got something to say spit it right out there. None of this beating about the bush. I say what I want to say all the time. LOL!!!
A good question might be, was your wife aware of the inordinate amount of time that was spent focusing on high school girls sports and a particular interest in one of the athletes? Was your wife aware that 3ABN employees were being utilized for this purpose?
Has any 3ABN employee asked DS why he took such a strong interest in the activities of a female high school student? Why he often treated her to dinner and took her to sporting events, without anyone else being there, not even his wife? Why he insisted on being alone with her?
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Now if you had revealed them say 6-8 years ago assuming that is when the alleged incidents occurred then they could become more believable.
I know for a fact that these allegations are not new. I can't say they are true, but I know I heard of them awhile back.
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I heard of them awhile back, too.
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The 'guest' observers on here know who they are and they know exactly what is being referred to. Advent talk isn't a court room where people are under oath, so I don't need to name any names or provide any juicy details. All that needs to be known is that the co-founder of 3ABN has a problem in his attraction for very young females. His defenders know this too. They just hope it goes away because they know that it could bring him down, permanently. They also know that if they confront him on it, he will fire them...
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How young does he seem to like them? Are there two little girls that are in danger?
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The 'guest' observers on here know who they are and they know exactly what is being referred to. Advent talk isn't a court room where people are under oath, so I don't need to name any names or provide any juicy details. All that needs to be known is that the co-founder of 3ABN has a problem in his attraction for very young females. His defenders know this too. They just hope it goes away because they know that it could bring him down, permanently. They also know that if they confront him on it, he will fire them...
So would any of these ladies be willing to affirm these allegations?
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So you actually wrote this to get the attention of "guest observer", not even members? Girl, see I thought you really knew something. You just talkin'. Next!
The 'guest' observers on here know who they are and they know exactly what is being referred to. Advent talk isn't a court room where people are under oath, so I don't need to name any names or provide any juicy details. All that needs to be known is that the co-founder of 3ABN has a problem in his attraction for very young females. His defenders know this too. They just hope it goes away because they know that it could bring him down, permanently. They also know that if they confront him on it, he will fire them...
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Ain't you talking too, girl? Let's be thankful for the gift of tongues, especially when we use it for edification.
So you actually wrote this to get the attention of "guest observer", not even members? Girl, see I thought you really knew something. You just talkin'. Next!
The 'guest' observers on here know who they are and they know exactly what is being referred to. Advent talk isn't a court room where people are under oath, so I don't need to name any names or provide any juicy details. All that needs to be known is that the co-founder of 3ABN has a problem in his attraction for very young females. His defenders know this too. They just hope it goes away because they know that it could bring him down, permanently. They also know that if they confront him on it, he will fire them...
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If the argument about unclean meats not being sanctified by praying over them is valid, doesn't that principle appy here? Is something good just because it is SDA? Are we as vulnerable to groupthink as any other group? I'm not saying don't eat junk food at all. I'm saying how something is perceived doesn't alter what it really is.
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If the argument about unclean meats not being sanctified by praying over them is valid, doesn't that principle appy here? Is something good just because it is SDA? Are we as vulnerable to groupthink as any other group? I'm not saying don't eat junk food at all. I'm saying how something is perceived doesn't alter what it really is.
Childoftheking
Not quite understanding. I don't think praying over unsantified unclean meat will help anything concerning good health or be blessed especially if knowing it is unclean. I must say the most difficulty I have with health message is going beyond into insepid recipes. I have a lot of difficulty going against what EGW states about deciding our own time when we think we MUST go vegan. She states that the time will become demanded and why make ourselves weak before that time. Now, I have watched what happens when churches start to demand vegan. I have seen what it has done to individuals. The fanatisim has done more harm then good. I could write on and on of the distruction I have seen what young mothers have done to their children, people have done to their selves, what it has done to a church with visitors, down to sign putting on all pot lucks, in fact a book would be more like it. It is not only premature action but very insepid.
The time will come when we may have to discard some of the articles of diet we now use, such as milk and cream and eggs; but my message is that you must not bring yourself to a time of trouble beforehand, and thus afflict yourself with death. Wait till the Lord prepares the way before you. {CD 206.1}
The reforms that are strained to the highest tension might accommodate a certain class, who can obtain all they need to take the place of the things discarded; but this class forms a very small minority of the people to whom these tests seem unnecessary. There are those who try to abstain from what is declared to be harmful. They fail to supply the system with proper nourishment, and as a consequence become weak and unable to work. Thus health reform is brought to disrepute. The work we have tried to build up solidly is confused with strange things that God has not required. The energies of the church are crippled. {CD 206.2}
But God will interfere to prevent the results of these too-strenuous ideas. The gospel is to harmonize the sinful race. It is to bring the rich and the poor together at the feet of Jesus. . . . {CD 206.3}
But I wish to say that when the time comes that it is no longer safe to use milk, cream, butter, and eggs, God will reveal this. No extremes in health reform are to be advocated. The question of using milk and butter and eggs will work out its own problem. At present we have no burden on this line. Let your moderation be known unto all men. {CD 206.4}
Letter 37, 1904
325. Last night I was in my sleep talking with Doctor -----. I said to him: You must still exercise care in regard to extremes in diet. You must not go to extremes either in your own case or in regard to the food provided
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for the helpers and the patients at the sanitarium. The patients pay a good price for their board, and they should have liberal fare. Some may come to the sanitarium in a condition demanding stern denial of appetite and the simplest fare, but as their health improves, they should be liberally supplied with nourishing food.
[SANITARIUMS TO AVOID EXTREMES IN DIET.--427, 428, 429] {CD 206.5}
The Food Should be Made Appetizing
(1867) 2T 538
326. Health reformers, above all others, should be careful to shun extremes. The body must have sufficient nourishment. We cannot subsist upon air merely; neither can we retain health unless we have nourishing food. Food should be prepared in good order, so that it is palatable. {CD 207.1}
(1909) 9T 161-163
327. A diet lacking in the proper elements of nutrition, brings reproach upon the cause of health reform. We are mortal, and must supply ourselves with food that will give proper nourishment to the body. {CD 207.2}
Some of our people, while conscientiously abstaining from eating improper foods, neglect to supply themselves with the elements necessary for the sustenance of the body. Those who take an extreme view of health reform are in danger of preparing tasteless dishes, making them so insipid that they are not satisfying. Food should be prepared in such a way that it will be appetizing as well as nourishing. It should not be robbed of that which the system needs. I use some salt, and always have, because salt, instead of being deleterious, is actually essential for the blood. Vegetables should be made palatable with a little milk or cream, or something equivalent. {CD 207.3}
While warnings have been given regarding the dangers of disease through butter, and the evil of the free use of eggs by small children, yet we should not consider it a violation of principle to use eggs from hens that are well cared for and suitably fed. Eggs contain properties that are remedial agencies in counteracting certain poisons. {CD 207.4}
Some, in abstaining from milk, eggs, and butter, have failed to supply the system with proper nourishment, and as
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a consequence, have become weak and unable to work. Thus health reform is brought into disrepute. The work that we have tried to build up solidly is confused with strange things that God has not required, and the energies of the church are crippled. But God will interfere to prevent the results of these too strenuous ideas. The gospel is to harmonize the sinful race. It is to bring rich and poor together at the feet of Jesus. {CD 207.5}
The time will come when we may have to discard some of the articles of diet we now use, such as milk and cream and eggs; but it is not necessary to bring upon ourselves perplexity by premature and extreme restrictions. Wait until the circumstances demand it, and the Lord prepares the way for it. {CD 208.1}
(We try to say that now it is worse and demand the time ourselves. But we must be reasonable in all things. I have seen where damage and death from this is worse.) EGW continues
Those who would be successful in proclaiming the principles of health reform must make the word of God their guide and counselor. Only as the teachers of health reform principles do this, can they stand on vantage ground. Let us never bear a testimony against health reform by failing to use wholesome, palatable food in place of the harmful articles of diet that we have discarded. Do not in any way encourage an appetite for stimulants. Eat only plain, simple, wholesome food, and thank God constantly for the principles of health reform. In all things be true and upright, and you will gain precious victories. {CD 208.2}
Harmful Influence of Extremists
(1870) 2T 374, 375
328. And while we would caution you not to overeat, even of the best quality of food, we would also caution those that are extremists not to raise a false standard, and then endeavor to bring everybody to it. {CD 208.3}
Also.. Childoftheking, Been working hard on website. I think now you can get in but still a ways to go to finish. Not everything in place yet. We also will not be putting on there about SDA affiliation yet! But traces of it will soon appear in beginning. That is being worked on this week.
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So when might circumstances demand it?
Around 1989 or so I think I read about salmonella being in uncracked chicken eggs. Some were speculating that it was because of the feed, and others didn't think so.
It was about that time that I read in the paper about a new chicken processing plant. Feathers, beaks, and feet would go to another plant to be cooked down into chicken feed.
I think it was in 1993 that I ran across the mad cow crisis in Britain. Our media was totally silent about it, even though it was an international thing by that time. Russia had even initially refused to accept British beef as part of a food aid package, but still our media said nothing.
Eventually they identified the practice of feeding cows to cows as causing that problem.
Chicken aren't buzzards and cows aren't hogs. God didn't make them to eat that way. Human greed led to these blatant violations of the Creator's designs, and the results as far as cows go are history.
Given everything, I don't see how the circumstances aren't now, unless one either can't possibly replace animal products with other things or can secure animal products from sources that are prion and cancer free and are raised in ways that are in harmony with the Creator's designs.
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So when might circumstances demand it?
Around 1989 or so I think I read about salmonella being in uncracked chicken eggs. Some were speculating that it was because of the feed, and others didn't think so.
It was about that time that I read in the paper about a new chicken processing plant. Feathers, beaks, and feet would go to another plant to be cooked down into chicken feed.
I think it was in 1993 that I ran across the mad cow crisis in Britain. Our media was totally silent about it, even though it was an international thing by that time. Russia had even initially refused to accept British beef as part of a food aid package, but still our media said nothing.
Eventually they identified the practice of feeding cows to cows as causing that problem.
Chicken aren't buzzards and cows aren't hogs. God didn't make them to eat that way. Human greed led to these blatant violations of the Creator's designs, and the results as far as cows go are history.
Given everything, I don't see how the circumstances aren't now, unless one either can't possibly replace animal products with other things or can secure animal products from sources that are prion and cancer free and are raised in ways that are in harmony with the Creator's designs.
I think what is appropriate in one part of the world - or even a particular country - might not be appropriate in others. It is easy for those of us who live where there is choice and we have the finances to make the best choices. EGW indicates that replacement foods should be readily available before urging change. (Obviously I am not suggesting eating unclean foods and I am vegetarian though not vegan).
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And that is why I wrote the last paragraph the way I did.
One thing Ellen White definitely advocated is that substitutes be within the reach of the poor. That's one reason why my wife wrote a cookbook in which every ingredient is available at the local grocery store. If one doesn't have to buy specialty ingredients from specialty stores, it's more within the reach of the poor.
Obviously, the average poor in America aren't poor when compared to the poor of some other countries, and so one would need to consider what is available to the poor on a country by country basis.
But then again, the poor of many countries can't afford the rich, highly refined diet of the more affluent countries, and they have less of the resulting negative health consequences that a unrefined, vegetarian diet in America will help prevent.
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Sorry Johann, osmething told me to elaborate on that a little more. She is just talking to hear herself talk, or in this case read her own words. IWO, she has no actual information, solid information, nothing significant to add to the evidence.
Ain't you talking too, girl? Let's be thankful for the gift of tongues, especially when we use it for edification.
So you actually wrote this to get the attention of "guest observer", not even members? Girl, see I thought you really knew something. You just talkin'. Next!
The 'guest' observers on here know who they are and they know exactly what is being referred to. Advent talk isn't a court room where people are under oath, so I don't need to name any names or provide any juicy details. All that needs to be known is that the co-founder of 3ABN has a problem in his attraction for very young females. His defenders know this too. They just hope it goes away because they know that it could bring him down, permanently. They also know that if they confront him on it, he will fire them...
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So when might circumstances demand it?
Hi Bob, I have tried very hard to be reasonable in decisions for my self.
Back in EGW day it was very dangerous also I read for the milk, chickens, butter and eggs. If you read, disease was bad then and she insisted that all milk be boiled and etc for everthing else had to be watched. But even then. It is also diseased now along with generic putrid soy products. Nothing is the same and only worse.
But what I have discovered we must do as she says and pick only the best farm or organic food in clean animals or vegetables that we can away from all the pesticides and what ever else is no good.
I read and read until blue in the face about considering what is the right time and all I could do was evaluate what happens when we too early decide and much damage from too much protein in the diet or go all vegan. Years ago Loma Linda did some studies on sending the soy milk to the poor countries. IN fact one was Haiti. It showed the poor babies in the orphanages, in cribs. toddlers, and very young age developing into being able to reproduce in less then teens. Children were losing their identities. IF you go to the fairs you will also see it in animals in livestock. Some having both of everything. I know personally of children with no growth, black spots on their brains and no growth in others. Seizures, from no fats, or sugar. brain damage from mothers on vegan diets. Absolutely for sure. my own daughter tried this trick and it took tremendous tremedous research from one of the best 10 doctors in the world on minerals and enzymes He also worked with MS. Our family suffered until we got educated on how this all works. We did not rest until we found away. I called this Dr. and told him what we expected and read cause after cause why seizures. 12 Dr's said there was no answer to our situation but medication. This Dr. said not many would go to this Length and be open minded enough to discover or believe what we suspected. HE also told us we were exactly right and he would guide us from there on in what we did. We brought it back to normal after 20 seizures an hr from birth. It took about 4 months of 24 hour care against the local Dr's wished of what we were doing to counter act this. It worked but we were under surveillance from Dr. the whole time as we were told we would have nothing but a vegetable. So he let us do it in reversable from the vegan diet that caused it while pregnant. The Dr. found it before the birth with blood test. And it happened. WE prayed much. The Dr. could not believe the reverse or "miracle"he called it. I might add that a friend of our daughter, in fact a dentist did the same, the girls were the same age. but they would not go the route we took and at now 25 they have a beautiful beautiful almost vegetable in a wheel chair. She has the most beautiful hair that they keep perfect with ribbons and trinkets. Our granddaughter had more seizures per hour. They are amazed at the granddaughters vibrant 2 time mother of very healthy children and never a seizure after we got them stopped from how we delved into our situation. We were never one minute without that child in one of our arms with oxygen worrying if that was the last breath. You can imagine how we felt when at 3 month, her eyes came into focus from the back of her head and a little smile came at the corners of her most fragile mouth. Everyday we noticed a little better but it was an education hour by hour. So I am very well aware of diet. I have made it also a special part of my life to fix the most simplest foods the best I know how. We also have been vegetarian for many years. But have damaged my self by not being able to keep any calcium or potassium. After 3 Dr's. told me I must (Just like EGW) have a little poultry and fish. I was not able to make good diet for my self because of not liking the protein. I had been taking pills and decided just to eat a little fish instead. But somehow it all does not go well in my belief and upset. But I definitely also of which I did not know until I read that EGW also was allergic to beans. It did though take her 40 years to get off pork or when she really found more on the health message. I absolutely can not eat them except for young green beans.
I just do not like issue with so much about the food in churches especially when visitors come in. I guess I thought mostly we were to help people get off the unclean foods and then I am really keen on that. I try very hard to show people that they can cook from scratch and get foods to taste almost or like the real McCoy and then they do not think so badly if very tasty similitude's foods. Coming from a big family, I have had to find a way. I am just not sure with all diseases that are here and everywhere that it is so good to give up eggs (if they are good). Of course we heal the dogs and cats with the eggs too when they get sick. Oh well, this is just my glitch and I fully realize that we are not going to miss heaven on the food of clean meats if we eat them, we just will not be transformed at the coming if we are still eating meat. I want so much to do that if I am still here when that time comes. I just want to see it all but then again don't know if I could stand the tempest of such a large family to worry about. Don't mean to get anything going. But I have tried to understand that Let God do the demand time and not me to get anyone else confussed. Especially new converts. It is true we must prepare for the time that God will provide our food. Just don't make our selves weak unnecessarily before so we can with stand the tempest.
But as far as timing is concerned. I think it will be demanded when we cannot buy or sell. When certain foods are taken clear off the shelf. When there is no more transportation everyone starving, no gardens or no where to get food. Then the Christians as I read will be provided for. Some how we are to stay as healthy as we can or the best we can rationalize. Maybe I am wrong in all this but I have saw first hand many, many, many situations that are disgusting, and some even death has occurred. Unbelievable but true. I could name them but not on here. I see people that are not too well educated trying to follow the flock and do not even know how to do it and they are grey, shaking, and sallow looking and weak and sick. But on the other hand the people that have diet education, and able to have all good places to obtain and afford I would say do quite well. It is the poor that cannot and I do not see any favors in Adventist stores for the poor in pricing. Therefore I have learned from my mother and years of experience on how to put the natural food together. In fact I am working on a hot dog Right now ...that is edible.(smile) Good day Bob and thanks much for your reply and hope I have not offended anyone. I'm just an ol fuddy duddy about good food. It better taste good, smell good and look good or I am not eating it. (laugh) :hot: I really do believe what you are saying but not all can comply easy.
Oh and I was in south America where they cook the heads, eyes and feet, cones, I took a little walk to look at the town when time to eat supper. I was astonished when I returned about 11:00 at night ....and they waited for us. I was put in a very hard place..what do you think happened??? (laugh) laugh) We were with a very high political family in fact (president of Columbia years ago) (our oldest grandson is His descendant) and I will leave it there!!!!
OOpps forgot to spellcheck. My mind is starting to type in Phonics what I learned in 1st grade. (Oh no! smile)
When Health Reform Becomes Health Deform
Letter 37, 1901
324. I have something to say in reference to extreme views of health reform. Health reform becomes health deform, a health destroyer, when it is carried to extremes. You will not be successful in sanitariums, where the sick
203
are treated, if you prescribe for the patients the same diet you have prescribed for yourself and your wife. I assure you that your ideas in regard to diet for the sick are not advisable. The change is too great. While I would discard flesh meat as injurious, something less objectionable may be used, and this is found in eggs. Do not remove milk from the table or forbid its being used in the cooking of food. The milk used should be procured from healthy cows, and should be sterilized. {CD 202.4}
Around 1989 or so I think I read about salmonella being in uncracked chicken eggs. Some were speculating that it was because of the feed, and others didn't think so.
It was about that time that I read in the paper about a new chicken processing plant. Feathers, beaks, and feet would go to another plant to be cooked down into chicken feed.
I think it was in 1993 that I ran across the mad cow crisis in Britain. Our media was totally silent about it, even though it was an international thing by that time. Russia had even initially refused to accept British beef as part of a food aid package, but still our media said nothing.
Eventually they identified the practice of feeding cows to cows as causing that problem.
Chicken aren't buzzards and cows aren't hogs. God didn't make them to eat that way. Human greed led to these blatant violations of the Creator's designs, and the results as far as cows go are history.
Given everything, I don't see how the circumstances aren't now, unless one either can't possibly replace animal products with other things or can secure animal products from sources that are prion and cancer free and are raised in ways that are in harmony with the Creator's designs.
Edited format only by Johann
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It is interesting that she foretold of a time when it would be unsafe to possess flocks and herds.
Today if your herds have prions and those prions get in the soil, how do you eradicate the prions out of your barnyard? Autoclaving doesn't work. It's a serious problem.
What she foretold appears to be unrelated to laws that forbid buying and selling.
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In its great crisis Iceland seemed to get an advantage by great steams of herring around the coast. Boats were catching huge loads of herring until it was discovered that a great percentage of the herring were diseased and could not be used for human consumption. Experts state it will take several years until herring can be used again for human consumption. What is happening to the ocean?
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It is interesting that she foretold of a time when it would be unsafe to possess flocks and herds.
Today if your herds have prions and those prions get in the soil, how do you eradicate the prions out of your barnyard? Autoclaving doesn't work. It's a serious problem.
What she foretold appears to be unrelated to laws that forbid buying and selling.
Yes you are right and before that time of definite forbidding of buying and selling I sort of felt that because of economy so bad that right now it is getting pretty hard to buy what is needed. I was more thinking of economy so bad or depression or recession or what ever happens that is so bad that I think people will be too poor or hungry before the degree. Sorry for giving wrong impression. I think already parts of the world are at that point. I think it will happen even more here soon.
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It is interesting that she foretold of a time when it would be unsafe to possess flocks and herds.
I would say that it would be a demanding time with no more herds! no more flocks.
Today if your herds have prions and those prions get in the soil, how do you eradicate the prions out of your barnyard? Autoclaving doesn't work. It's a serious problem.
What she foretold appears to be unrelated to laws that forbid buying and selling.
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If an SDA pastor was treating a 17 year-old girl to dinner alone, taking her to sporting events alone and having her baseball and basketball games recorded, then this would raise eyebrows in any church community. People would be suspicious of such behavior. They would demand to know what the purpose was in doing this...
So shouldn't a self-proclaimed evangelist and southern gospel singer also be questioned and held accountable for this same kind of behavior? Especially since he's claimed his wife was unfaithful to him?
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Absolutely.
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Crystal;
I am concerned; very concerned about this happening. I have heard the story several times before. The story has been told to others, by others, before; some at 3ABN knew also; others knew he was using 3ABN equipment to tape the games; others knew it was put on satellite; others knew he bought her a car. No one cared. No one called him on it.
It was common knowledge that Danny used the jet to attend sports games out of the state and probably in the state. No one cared/cares. Did Danny's church know?
We have all heard all the stories! 3ABN has heard all the stories. Yet, they continue to allow Danny to reign supreme at 3ABN! It seems the last days are already here and the Lord has only a few true followers that will do what is right in God's eyes, no matter what the consequences. There are none of these followers at 3ABN. In fact, I have come to the conclusion that God doesn't live there anymore. I believe He has moved to another place where His name can be lifted high.
I believe those that are using 3ABN are beginning to feeling the effects of their decisions to continue to associate with 3ABN, not caring that Danny Shelton is not of God. I have always loved Amazing Facts and Maranatha. However, I have lost all respect for Amazing Facts, Maranatha, ASI & others. They all know, but are over looking his horrendous activities to use 3ABN for their own edification and gratification! It is disgusting beyond measure.
Yes, Crystal, I fear evil abounds because of the way Danny has conducted his life. This person is not the 1st to come along that can tell a similar story. In fact I get an upset stomach when I see Brenda Walsh. She and Danny are a disgrace to the Name of Jesus Christ! How can they dare put the two of them up on the pedestal as the leaders of children? May God tear them out of 3ABN with a mighty hand. If He is not able to root the evil out, I pray that 3ABN will disappear! That is harsh from me because I have been an avid viewer of those that are holding the banner of Christ high. However, I am changing my opinions very fast.
The BOD still condone actions and keep Danny in his position. Therefore, I believe they are no longer of God, period!
ASI continues to glorify Danny and his evil even though he refuses to have the GC audit his books! Danny does not come close to living up to their requirements. In support of the evil Danny, they have withheld funds from other ministries because of Danny! This is a sin! They are not of God. There are those that share Board positions on ASI and 3ABN. They are not following the clear word of God. I cannot support them since they are promoting evil. They can no longer be of God!.
Maranatha Shares Board members of ASI and 3ABN Therefore, all three of those organizations are in bed together! Each bear the responsibility of Danny continuing as the leader of 3ABN! They each are contributing to evil by choice. They still supports Danny, or they would go to Hope TV! As long as these choices continue, the more I am convinced that 3ABN needs to be destroyed so God can cleanse the camp once and for all. Danny must be set free so he can continue his life filled with evil without being a Seventh-day Adventist representative.
That is so harsh, but it is how I am beginning to feel. I am not alone either. I just spoke with a friend. Women's ministry leaders are hearing Brenda Walsh's telephone conversation. They are not going to invite them to women's ministries any more. This is in another state and I believe it will be the same in Texas as more members hear that telephone conversation.
Bob and Gailon are our only earthly hope of something being done! Please pray their appeal is won! They have been faithful in many things. They are not perfect, but have really been used. God has led all of the witnesses to come to them with evidence. God can intervene. Then again he may allow them to just rot away.
No money of mine will go to these three ministries including Amazing Facts!
If an SDA pastor was treating a 17 year-old girl to dinner alone, taking her to sporting events alone and having her baseball and basketball games recorded, then this would raise eyebrows in any church community. People would be suspicious of such behavior. They would demand to know what the purpose was in doing this...
So shouldn't a self-proclaimed evangelist and southern gospel singer also be questioned and held accountable for this same kind of behavior? Especially since he's claimed his wife was unfaithful to him?
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Well, that is quite an indictment, Fran!
I have to agree with you, though.
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Questions for Danny:
1. Did you think you got away with all those coins?
2. How about answering the questions about the 17 year old you courted and bought a car for and flew her to games, dined her and, made her a TV Basketball star?
3. What else did you two do? Should Linda finally know?
4. Did you destroy all of the eBay sales evidence from the sales from nan_don, (Nan Don, Haiti)? I see you are headed that way to take care of business. Should I tell the IRS? Oops, done already.
5. Isn't it a good thing that eBay is a real business and keeps their records?
6. What about all those sales that were sold by Trent and Bob after nan_Don? eBay has those records, Do you think the IRS will be upset that you destroyed records?
7. Did you finally give Linda 1/2 of your hidden $170,000 checking account?
8. Did you have to pay a fine for hiding it in your settlement case?
9. Do you think that the Lewis ministry has a record of your cash donation of $20,000? They should have a $20,000 cash deposit AND a cash receipt showing you donated $20,000 cash, Right?
10. Can you keep ahead of the IRS at all the other evidence they have that I have not revealed publicly?
11. Do you find all of this embarrassing in any way?
12. How can you put Brenda Walsh in charge of our children? First Tommy and now Brenda. When will it stop.
13. Have you heard a copy of her telephone conversation? Interesting, huh?
14. What about Linda's daughters allegations?
15. How are you going to answer all the questions surrounding your character? God removed his chosen when they departed from God and went their own ways. How will you answer?
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I will answer question number two with some questions and some statements. The story is a fable and a unsubstantiated rumour at this point in time. If not true it is defamation per se. That is an actionable lawsuit. It becomes interesting about a situation when more facts become known. If you are seen with a underage member of the opposite sex having dinner can you jump to the conclusion that the relationship is inappropriate especially if the member is your relative? How many uncles or aunts or family members have bought a car for a less advantaged family member? Now you say DS bought a car for someone-1. Does that mean that he bought and PAID for the car? 2. Did DS buy the car on a loan type basis with the 17 year old or with the understanding the car was to be used for a short time until graduation and then the car would be returned to him? 3.Did the 17 year old enter into a contract as a minor by buying the car from DS that was by law void and when she became of age she was required by law to affirm her contract or lose the car? 4. Did she affirm the contract with DS as a cosigner and fail to make the payments requiring her to return the car to the cosigner? 5. Did she get into any car accidents requiring the cosigner to take the car away from her? Was she under DS's insurance and DS was going to be cancelled unless the car was immediately returned to him? I could continue with questions but does how you answer to any of the above question change your view on the relationship? :wave: ;D
It is certainly wrong for DS to use the plane and airwaves for sports events. Again without a person having personal knowledge of an event it can be considered hearsay. I for one do not want to be condemned and be found guilty by pubic opinion for a rumour. Okay, someone told you about the events which were told by him or her from another person who heard that from another person and so on... Because someone sees something they can jump to the conclusion of what they think they perceive and condemn the accused and publish their opinion for the world to potentially see or they just hear it from someone else resulting in lowering that person's reputation in the community=Libel.
That is tough and well unfair even if the accused is a public figure as DS. It could be analyzed as piling on-jumping on somebody unfairly when they are down. Get the facts first then proceed. ;D
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Maranatha Shares Board members of ASI and 3ABN Therefore, all three of those organizations are in bed together! Each bear the responsibility of Danny continuing as the leader of 3ABN! They each are contributing to evil by choice. They still supports Danny, or they would go to Hope TV! As long as these choices continue, the more I am convinced that 3ABN needs to be destroyed so God can cleanse the camp once and for all. Danny must be set free so he can continue his life filled with evil without being a Seventh-day Adventist representative.
Fran,
I also am so disappointed in the same trend that I have watched for some time now. Not only all that you see on TV they produce but also in the churches becoming so ...___I want to use a word but thought all would know what I mean. I know one preacher that we would not enter the doors where he is at. Their communion is now pass up front for your wafer and no more foot washing. I feel the whole conference is corrupt. We are here, we are at the time of disclosure that EGW talks about. The church as we know it is about to fall as some still fight for truth. But the church of truth is still going to be triumphant. It is more disappointing to know that if none of this was true the fact remains that with the human eye you can see the extravaganza of the money. How can one not see it. Does not DB see it. Boy am I disappointed. I have realized for a long time that the pew money is not used in the right sequence of proportions as instructed by counsel. We have supported all of the above but now looking for a better way. How do most of the other evangelists stand on this. I know that will be hard to say. But it is best said, I guess. We were in horror at the onset of business we entered in years ago as we discovered this very thing of corruption where we were at ...but too late, too late. I am ready for Jesus to come for my self but my heart is so weak because of the rest. Not that I even know if I will make it but I just can hardly stand to see this evil that has taken from the pure in heart.
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I will answer question number two with some questions and some statements. The story is a fable and a unsubstantiated rumour at this point in time. If not true it is defamation per se. That is an actionable lawsuit. It becomes interesting about a situation when more facts become known. If you are seen with a underage member of the opposite sex having dinner can you jump to the conclusion that the relationship is inappropriate especially if the member is your relative? How many uncles or aunts or family members have bought a car for a less advantaged family member? Now you say DS bought a car for someone-1. Does that mean that he bought and PAID for the car? 2. Did DS buy the car on a loan type basis with the 17 year old or with the understanding the car was to be used for a short time until graduation and then the car would be returned to him? 3.Did the 17 year old enter into a contract as a minor by buying the car from DS that was by law void and when she became of age she was required by law to affirm her contract or lose the car? 4. Did she affirm the contract with DS as a cosigner and fail to make the payments requiring her to return the car to the cosigner? 5. Did she get into any car accidents requiring the cosigner to take the car away from her? Was she under DS's insurance and DS was going to be cancelled unless the car was immediately returned to him? I could continue with questions but does how you answer to any of the above question change your view on the relationship? :wave: ;D
It is certainly wrong for DS to use the plane and airwaves for sports events. Again without a person having personal knowledge of an event it can be considered hearsay. I for one do not want to be condemned and be found guilty by pubic opinion for a rumour. Okay, someone told you about the events which were told by him or her from another person who heard that from another person and so on... Because someone sees something they can jump to the conclusion of what they think they perceive and condemn the accused and publish their opinion for the world to potentially see or they just hear it from someone else resulting in lowering that person's reputation in the community=Libel.
That is tough and well unfair even if the accused is a public figure as DS. It could be analyzed as piling on-jumping on somebody unfairly when they are down. Get the facts first then proceed. ;D
You've raised some good points. However, if Danny only bought a car for one underage female relative, and if that relative wasn't even a first cousin, it does raise questions that Danny should answer. Especially since Tommy is alleged to have also given a car to one of his interests.
Regarding the plane, someone could grab the flight logs for 3ABN's planes and compare them with sporting events, and see if there are any matches. Anyone can get the flight logs.
One of the things we asked for documents about pertained to the allegation that some worker got rental benefits in exchange for unusual favors. Again, rather than cough up documents on October 27, Shelton and 3ABN moved to dismiss the lawsuit on October 23. They thus missed a golden opportunity to put these ugly allegations to rest once and for all. One could therefore assume that these allegations may have been true.
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I guess in some respects I am abit naive but....my granddaughter watches Kids Time every Sabbath morning....I have always had a dislike for Brenda Walsh for many reasons....But Fran,,,I am just wondering about the telephone conversation you referred to in your post....Is this something derogatory..?? I'm really not watching 3abn anymore ...since Linda is no longer a part of the program.....I just can't watch it.......but I don't know if I want to continue to let my granddaughter watch Brenda Walsh.......and her program.......I was just curious......
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You've raised some good points. However, if Danny only bought a car for one underage female relative, and if that relative wasn't even a first cousin, it does raise questions that Danny should answer. Especially since Tommy is alleged to have also given a car to one of his interests.
...a car which, by the way, was demanded to be returned the instant said interest came forward with allegations against Tommy.
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I guess in some respects I am abit naive but....my granddaughter watches Kids Time every Sabbath morning....I have always had a dislike for Brenda Walsh for many reasons....But Fran,,,I am just wondering about the telephone conversation you referred to in your post....Is this something derogatory..?? I'm really not watching 3abn anymore ...since Linda is no longer a part of the program.....I just can't watch it.......but I don't know if I want to continue to let my granddaughter watch Brenda Walsh.......and her program.......I was just curious......
Brenda has accused Linda of multiple affairs, of being afraid she was pregnant, of apparently getting an abortion, and of rendezvousing with Arild Abrahamsen at his condo in Florida.
So when faced with such accusations we have to consider whether Brenda is being truthful in what she says. Some of this is hard to nail down and some of it isn't, so we have to look at the easier stuff.
Brenda stated that Linda got the tickets to Florida over her objections. The truth of the matter is that Brenda arranged for the tickets, and 3ABN paid for them. Now since Brenda was the one that actually reserved the tickets, how can she have any credibility when she says that Linda is the one who got the tickets over her objections?
There is more, but I'll stop there for now.
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I do have a number of observations regarding Brenda in Norway that I have never mentioned before - observations which far from support several of the statements she has made.
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Wendall;
I only asked questions.
Are contracts with minors valid?
All that is needed is an answer. In my opinion, silence in this matter could be taken to mean there is something to hide.
To clear this up, all that needs to be done is for Danny to explain the situation, and produce some paperwork. Maybe he can even get one of his BOD to confirm that. They could confirm that Danny is telling the truth, right? Walt is good at this type of confirmation, but that could really back fire and cause some to believe it is a cover up like so many of his confirmations made in the past, right?
Just some of my thoughts and opinions.
I will answer question number two with some questions and some statements. The story is a fable and a unsubstantiated rumour at this point in time. If not true it is defamation per se. That is an actionable lawsuit. It becomes interesting about a situation when more facts become known. If you are seen with a underage member of the opposite sex having dinner can you jump to the conclusion that the relationship is inappropriate especially if the member is your relative? How many uncles or aunts or family members have bought a car for a less advantaged family member? Now you say DS bought a car for someone-1. Does that mean that he bought and PAID for the car? 2. Did DS buy the car on a loan type basis with the 17 year old or with the understanding the car was to be used for a short time until graduation and then the car would be returned to him? 3.Did the 17 year old enter into a contract as a minor by buying the car from DS that was by law void and when she became of age she was required by law to affirm her contract or lose the car? 4. Did she affirm the contract with DS as a cosigner and fail to make the payments requiring her to return the car to the cosigner? 5. Did she get into any car accidents requiring the cosigner to take the car away from her? Was she under DS's insurance and DS was going to be cancelled unless the car was immediately returned to him? I could continue with questions but does how you answer to any of the above question change your view on the relationship? :wave: ;D
It is certainly wrong for DS to use the plane and airwaves for sports events. Again without a person having personal knowledge of an event it can be considered hearsay. I for one do not want to be condemned and be found guilty by pubic opinion for a rumour. Okay, someone told you about the events which were told by him or her from another person who heard that from another person and so on... Because someone sees something they can jump to the conclusion of what they think they perceive and condemn the accused and publish their opinion for the world to potentially see or they just hear it from someone else resulting in lowering that person's reputation in the community=Libel.
That is tough and well unfair even if the accused is a public figure as DS. It could be analyzed as piling on-jumping on somebody unfairly when they are down. Get the facts first then proceed. ;D
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Thank you Bob and Johann...for the replies....I just didn't know that much about Brenda's involvement in this mess..only that she was supposed to have been Linda's best friend.....I am so dishearted that more and more people at 3abn appear to have there hand in this mess somewhere.....No..I will not be able to look at Brenda Walsh the same again....and she is suppose to be heading up the new channel for children soon...............I don't think so.....THANKS again Bob and Johann for answering my post......Have a Happy Sabbath everyone and may it be a blessed Sabbath for all.....I know it will be for me. I do so look forward to the Sabbath hours....................God Bless
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Crystal;
I am concerned; very concerned about this happening. I have heard the story several times before. The story has been told to others, by others, before; some at 3ABN knew also; others knew he was using 3ABN equipment to tape the games; others knew it was put on satellite; others knew he bought her a car. No one cared. No one called him on it.
It was common knowledge that Danny used the jet to attend sports games out of the state and probably in the state. No one cared/cares. Did Danny's church know?
We have all heard all the stories! 3ABN has heard all the stories. Yet, they continue to allow Danny to reign supreme at 3ABN! It seems the last days are already here and the Lord has only a few true followers that will do what is right in God's eyes, no matter what the consequences. There are none of these followers at 3ABN. In fact, I have come to the conclusion that God doesn't live there anymore. I believe He has moved to another place where His name can be lifted high.
I believe those that are using 3ABN are beginning to feeling the effects of their decisions to continue to associate with 3ABN, not caring that Danny Shelton is not of God. I have always loved Amazing Facts and Maranatha. However, I have lost all respect for Amazing Facts, Maranatha, ASI & others. They all know, but are over looking his horrendous activities to use 3ABN for their own edification and gratification! It is disgusting beyond measure.
Yes, Crystal, I fear evil abounds because of the way Danny has conducted his life. This person is not the 1st to come along that can tell a similar story. In fact I get an upset stomach when I see Brenda Walsh. She and Danny are a disgrace to the Name of Jesus Christ! How can they dare put the two of them up on the pedestal as the leaders of children? May God tear them out of 3ABN with a mighty hand. If He is not able to root the evil out, I pray that 3ABN will disappear! That is harsh from me because I have been an avid viewer of those that are holding the banner of Christ high. However, I am changing my opinions very fast.
The BOD still condone actions and keep Danny in his position. Therefore, I believe they are no longer of God, period!
ASI continues to glorify Danny and his evil even though he refuses to have the GC audit his books! Danny does not come close to living up to their requirements. In support of the evil Danny, they have withheld funds from other ministries because of Danny! This is a sin! They are not of God. There are those that share Board positions on ASI and 3ABN. They are not following the clear word of God. I cannot support them since they are promoting evil. They can no longer be of God!.
Maranatha Shares Board members of ASI and 3ABN Therefore, all three of those organizations are in bed together! Each bear the responsibility of Danny continuing as the leader of 3ABN! They each are contributing to evil by choice. They still supports Danny, or they would go to Hope TV! As long as these choices continue, the more I am convinced that 3ABN needs to be destroyed so God can cleanse the camp once and for all. Danny must be set free so he can continue his life filled with evil without being a Seventh-day Adventist representative.
That is so harsh, but it is how I am beginning to feel. I am not alone either. I just spoke with a friend. Women's ministry leaders are hearing Brenda Walsh's telephone conversation. They are not going to invite them to women's ministries any more. This is in another state and I believe it will be the same in Texas as more members hear that telephone conversation.
Bob and Gailon are our only earthly hope of something being done! Please pray their appeal is won! They have been faithful in many things. They are not perfect, but have really been used. God has led all of the witnesses to come to them with evidence. God can intervene. Then again he may allow them to just rot away.
No money of mine will go to these three ministries including Amazing Facts!
If an SDA pastor was treating a 17 year-old girl to dinner alone, taking her to sporting events alone and having her baseball and basketball games recorded, then this would raise eyebrows in any church community. People would be suspicious of such behavior. They would demand to know what the purpose was in doing this...
So shouldn't a self-proclaimed evangelist and southern gospel singer also be questioned and held accountable for this same kind of behavior? Especially since he's claimed his wife was unfaithful to him?
Shame shame Fran..repeating stories that you can't prove since they never happened. Same old stories...same old pattern.
1. Danny never stole any coins so no one can have any info to the contrary. If so, prove it Fran. I for one won't be holding my breath.
2. Danny never courted a 17 year old cousin. That is a lie and everyone is aware of it. Secondly, she was already a local basketball star when the Shelton family actually got to know her. To be even more specific it was her Junior year and she was on the same team Alyssa was. (hence, how they met her) Until then the Shelton's had heard of her but never spent anytime with her.
3.Your timeline is all screwed up as usual Fran. Since 3ABN never even had a plane during that time (approx 1995) How could Danny be flying her around to games? This is just another lie that you Fran have bought into or MADE UP.
4. As the girl was raised in a "other side of the tracks" environment and had everything going against her, the Shelton's were kind enough to cosign a loan for a used car in an effort to give her a little bit of a chance. Eventually she stopped making payments and the car was repossessed (Mr. Joy should be sympathetic with that one). Linda was totally aware of the cosign decision. After all, the girl was Allyssa's friend.
5. Also 3ABN equipment was never used to tape the National softball tournament. Another production team from out of state did the production. None of the money came from any 3ABN donors. There was a donation to the city by the Mckees to make this possible. Once again another lie.
6. Also there was never any 170,000 hidden account hidden from Linda!. If you or anyone can prove that one I will give you Fran, $1,000.00!
7. Danny was not fined by the court for hiding info. So far only Linda has been sanctioned by the court for being misleading. She had to pay several thousand dollars of Danny's attorneys fees. A well deserved sanction as far as I'm concerned.
The other questions are also misleading and ridiculous so I'll move to the last one and save everyone's time.
Danny doesn't have to answer all the questions concerning his character that are thrown at him by this sorry little group. In fact he is in good company as God has the same problem with Satan attacking His character! According to Mrs. White Satan's last greatest attack against God is against his character. Eternity will tell the truth about God and it will also tell the truth about me and YOU! And no (before you get your childish rantings going, I am not comparing Danny to God) After all it isn't just Danny. All of Gods remnant are or will be tried in the fire...it has already been foretold.
Look at the fruits of 3ABN then compare to the fruits of your AT group! How many people do you think you have been led to Jesus by joining Satan's plan of being the accuser of the brethren? Thousands are coming to the knowledge of Christ and the great truths which this church teaches through the ministry of 3ABN through it's speakers and it's board and administration team. I realize not many of your little group are even SDA or if you are it appears that you either do not acknowledge our prophet or do not recognize the SDA church as the remnant church because of some ax you have to grind.
Words mean nothing. It's the actions that count. Only what's done for Christ will last. Your focus of trying to expose other peoples alleged sins by the gossip that you have been privy to will never pass heavens approval.
Danny was told 41/2 years ago that God would get rid of him and that be was going to die in less than a year because of Linda's dismissal. I believe that he has found that by standing up for truth and doing what God would have him do that he has been most blessed during the last 4 1/2 years! I believe he counts it a joy to be getting the Jesus treatment from those who are an enemy of the gospel.
Give it up already. It's over. If you Fran want to be here, at AT, and up to your neck spreading lies when Jesus comes...I guess that is up to you. I do know that isn't what Jesus wants for you. Or Pickle or Joy. They can carry on this ridiculous campaign until our Lord and Saviour comes but the only results that may come from it, is their own lost souls. That goes for you too Snoopy. You can all cry martyr until the end but God knows the heart. He knows your motives. He knows the lies that you have spread. He sees the eagerness and delight you feel with every lie you repeat. He knows every premeditated acted that you have performed to try and bring the 3abn ministry down. Trust me, trust His word....You will answer , in the heavenly courts for every false allegation that you have made public.
Oh well...history here tells me these words will go completely unheeded and you will continue your evil escapades. But, at least I have done my duty to try and help you see the light by telling you the truth.
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4. As the girl was raised in a "other side of the tracks" environment and had everything going against her, the Shelton's were kind enough to cosign a loan for a used car in an effort to give her a little bit of a chance. Eventually she stopped making payments and the car was repossessed (Mr. Joy should be sympathetic with that one). Linda was totally aware of the cosign decision. After all, the girl was Allyssa's friend.
You state as a fact that the car was repossessed. That means that the Sheltons also refused to make the payments on the car, which is a violation of the loan contract if they cosigned. Are you saying Danny doesn't always pay his bills?
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What Sam writes here seems quite convincing to some - on the surface. On the other hand it could also be a prime example of how some experts manipulate the truth to make a shady reproduction appear as a replica of what happened. I have a good reason to conclude that some of the statements below are based on wishful thinking rather than statements of what really happened. Do you think that presents a better picture of the god you serve? You will have to give me better proofs before I can accept all of it as true statements. For the time being I request some time before I present some valid questions.
Shame shame Fran..repeating stories that you can't prove since they never happened. Same old stories...same old pattern.
1. Danny never stole any coins so no one can have any info to the contrary. If so, prove it Fran. I for one won't be holding my breath.
2. Danny never courted a 17 year old cousin. That is a lie and everyone is aware of it. Secondly, she was already a local basketball star when the Shelton family actually got to know her. To be even more specific it was her Junior year and she was on the same team Alyssa was. (hence, how they met her) Until then the Shelton's had heard of her but never spent anytime with her.
3.Your timeline is all screwed up as usual Fran. Since 3ABN never even had a plane during that time (approx 1995) How could Danny be flying her around to games? This is just another lie that you Fran have bought into or MADE UP.
4. As the girl was raised in a "other side of the tracks" environment and had everything going against her, the Shelton's were kind enough to cosign a loan for a used car in an effort to give her a little bit of a chance. Eventually she stopped making payments and the car was repossessed (Mr. Joy should be sympathetic with that one). Linda was totally aware of the cosign decision. After all, the girl was Allyssa's friend.
5. Also 3ABN equipment was never used to tape the National softball tournament. Another production team from out of state did the production. None of the money came from any 3ABN donors. There was a donation to the city by the Mckees to make this possible. Once again another lie.
6. Also there was never any 170,000 hidden account hidden from Linda!. If you or anyone can prove that one I will give you Fran, $1,000.00!
7. Danny was not fined by the court for hiding info. So far only Linda has been sanctioned by the court for being misleading. She had to pay several thousand dollars of Danny's attorneys fees. A well deserved sanction as far as I'm concerned.
The other questions are also misleading and ridiculous so I'll move to the last one and save everyone's time.
Danny doesn't have to answer all the questions concerning his character that are thrown at him by this sorry little group. In fact he is in good company as God has the same problem with Satan attacking His character! According to Mrs. White Satan's last greatest attack against God is against his character. Eternity will tell the truth about God and it will also tell the truth about me and YOU! And no (before you get your childish rantings going, I am not comparing Danny to God) After all it isn't just Danny. All of Gods remnant are or will be tried in the fire...it has already been foretold.
Look at the fruits of 3ABN then compare to the fruits of your AT group! How many people do you think you have been led to Jesus by joining Satan's plan of being the accuser of the brethren? Thousands are coming to the knowledge of Christ and the great truths which this church teaches through the ministry of 3ABN through it's speakers and it's board and administration team. I realize not many of your little group are even SDA or if you are it appears that you either do not acknowledge our prophet or do not recognize the SDA church as the remnant church because of some ax you have to grind.
Words mean nothing. It's the actions that count. Only what's done for Christ will last. Your focus of trying to expose other peoples alleged sins by the gossip that you have been privy to will never pass heavens approval.
Danny was told 41/2 years ago that God would get rid of him and that be was going to die in less than a year because of Linda's dismissal. I believe that he has found that by standing up for truth and doing what God would have him do that he has been most blessed during the last 4 1/2 years! I believe he counts it a joy to be getting the Jesus treatment from those who are an enemy of the gospel.
Give it up already. It's over. If you Fran want to be here, at AT, and up to your neck spreading lies when Jesus comes...I guess that is up to you. I do know that isn't what Jesus wants for you. Or Pickle or Joy. They can carry on this ridiculous campaign until our Lord and Saviour comes but the only results that may come from it, is their own lost souls. That goes for you too Snoopy. You can all cry martyr until the end but God knows the heart. He knows your motives. He knows the lies that you have spread. He sees the eagerness and delight you feel with every lie you repeat. He knows every premeditated acted that you have performed to try and bring the 3abn ministry down. Trust me, trust His word....You will answer , in the heavenly courts for every false allegation that you have made public.
Oh well...history here tells me these words will go completely unheeded and you will continue your evil escapades. But, at least I have done my duty to try and help you see the light by telling you the truth.
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7. . . So far only Linda has been sanctioned by the court for being misleading. She had to pay several thousand dollars of Danny's attorneys fees. A well deserved sanction as far as I'm concerned.
1. To start out with, Sam, let's know in which way Linda was being misleading?
2. Tell us something about the circumstances that we may believe you are telling us the truth.
3. Has Linda actually paid a sanction? What is the amount?
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Look at the fruits of 3ABN then compare to the fruits of your AT group!
Good point. Jesus warned us about false Christs and false prophets arising in the last days. He told us that we would know them by their fruits. Thus, Danny must be a false prophet or false Christ.
So we look at the fruit. Danny covered up the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton, and then threatened people with lawsuits if they didn't shut up. I wouldn't know how much more demonic one's actions could be than that.
Danny got 3ABN to buy $3 million worth of the TCTR books, allegedly borrowing trust funds to do that, and then pocketed between $400,000 and $500,000 of that money. And while he was doing that, he failed to report any of that income on his July 2006 financial affidavit. His attorneys seem to have called that perjury.
Danny orchestrated a damage control broadcast on August 10, 2006, on 3ABN in which Alyssa Moore was called a liar by insinuation, when she alleged that Danny had sexually assaulted her. Another broadcast on Dec. 31, 2006, the only one ever registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, and fraudulently so, paid tribute to alleged pedophile Tommy Shelton, attributing his high blood pressure to a ferry ... or was that a fairy?
On another broadcast on Sept. 6, 2007, Danny declared all Christians to be enemies of the gospel who dared say that there was an IRS investigation going on.
Danny divorced Linda knowing that he didn't have biblical grounds to do so. In late 2005 he denied that he was romantically involved with any woman, that he had a girlfriend, and then married Brandy just months later.
Danny continues to try to hide the truth of his assets and income by protective orders in Illinois.
Danny has employed lawyers who lie, and paid them with donations to 3ABN. And that includes even for his own private legal expenses, based on the statement of none other than Walt Thompson.
And one last one: At the GC Session in 2005, Danny told Mable Dunbar that her ministry would suffer if she supported Linda. next thing Mable knew she wasn't getting funding anymore from ASI, and Samantha Nelson unethically removed her from the board of The Hope of Survivors. I am unaware that Samantha has ever apologized for her unethical removal of Mable Dunbar from that board.
Sam, do you know of anything above that isn't absolutely, 100% true?
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Crystal;
I am concerned; very concerned about this happening. I have heard the story several times before. The story has been told to others, by others, before; some at 3ABN knew also; others knew he was using 3ABN equipment to tape the games; others knew it was put on satellite; others knew he bought her a car. No one cared. No one called him on it.
It was common knowledge that Danny used the jet to attend sports games out of the state and probably in the state. No one cared/cares. Did Danny's church know?
We have all heard all the stories! 3ABN has heard all the stories. Yet, they continue to allow Danny to reign supreme at 3ABN! It seems the last days are already here and the Lord has only a few true followers that will do what is right in God's eyes, no matter what the consequences. There are none of these followers at 3ABN. In fact, I have come to the conclusion that God doesn't live there anymore. I believe He has moved to another place where His name can be lifted high.
I believe those that are using 3ABN are beginning to feeling the effects of their decisions to continue to associate with 3ABN, not caring that Danny Shelton is not of God. I have always loved Amazing Facts and Maranatha. However, I have lost all respect for Amazing Facts, Maranatha, ASI & others. They all know, but are over looking his horrendous activities to use 3ABN for their own edification and gratification! It is disgusting beyond measure.
Yes, Crystal, I fear evil abounds because of the way Danny has conducted his life. This person is not the 1st to come along that can tell a similar story. In fact I get an upset stomach when I see Brenda Walsh. She and Danny are a disgrace to the Name of Jesus Christ! How can they dare put the two of them up on the pedestal as the leaders of children? May God tear them out of 3ABN with a mighty hand. If He is not able to root the evil out, I pray that 3ABN will disappear! That is harsh from me because I have been an avid viewer of those that are holding the banner of Christ high. However, I am changing my opinions very fast.
The BOD still condone actions and keep Danny in his position. Therefore, I believe they are no longer of God, period!
ASI continues to glorify Danny and his evil even though he refuses to have the GC audit his books! Danny does not come close to living up to their requirements. In support of the evil Danny, they have withheld funds from other ministries because of Danny! This is a sin! They are not of God. There are those that share Board positions on ASI and 3ABN. They are not following the clear word of God. I cannot support them since they are promoting evil. They can no longer be of God!.
Maranatha Shares Board members of ASI and 3ABN Therefore, all three of those organizations are in bed together! Each bear the responsibility of Danny continuing as the leader of 3ABN! They each are contributing to evil by choice. They still supports Danny, or they would go to Hope TV! As long as these choices continue, the more I am convinced that 3ABN needs to be destroyed so God can cleanse the camp once and for all. Danny must be set free so he can continue his life filled with evil without being a Seventh-day Adventist representative.
That is so harsh, but it is how I am beginning to feel. I am not alone either. I just spoke with a friend. Women's ministry leaders are hearing Brenda Walsh's telephone conversation. They are not going to invite them to women's ministries any more. This is in another state and I believe it will be the same in Texas as more members hear that telephone conversation.
Bob and Gailon are our only earthly hope of something being done! Please pray their appeal is won! They have been faithful in many things. They are not perfect, but have really been used. God has led all of the witnesses to come to them with evidence. God can intervene. Then again he may allow them to just rot away.
No money of mine will go to these three ministries including Amazing Facts!
If an SDA pastor was treating a 17 year-old girl to dinner alone, taking her to sporting events alone and having her baseball and basketball games recorded, then this would raise eyebrows in any church community. People would be suspicious of such behavior. They would demand to know what the purpose was in doing this...
So shouldn't a self-proclaimed evangelist and southern gospel singer also be questioned and held accountable for this same kind of behavior? Especially since he's claimed his wife was unfaithful to him?
Shame shame Fran..repeating stories that you can't prove since they never happened. Same old stories...same old pattern.
What authority are you to state 100 per cent nothing happened?
1. Danny never stole any coins so no one can have any info to the contrary. If so, prove it Fran. I for one won't be holding my breath.
What does one have to prove when there is a hiding place?
2. Danny never courted a 17 year old cousin. That is a lie and everyone is aware of it. Secondly, she was already a local basketball star when the Shelton family actually got to know her. To be even more specific it was her Junior year and she was on the same team Alyssa was. (hence, how they met her) Until then the Shelton's had heard of her but never spent anytime with her.
Isn't that special to have so much money to do something special?
3.Your timeline is all screwed up as usual Fran. Since 3ABN never even had a plane during that time (approx 1995) How could Danny be flying her around to games? This is just another lie that you Fran have bought into or MADE UP.
What is he doing with a jet anyway? Pew money? Ego? Extravaganza?
4. As the girl was raised in a "other side of the tracks" environment and had everything going against her, the Shelton's were kind enough to cosign a loan for a used car in an effort to give her a little bit of a chance. Eventually she stopped making payments and the car was repossessed (Mr. Joy should be sympathetic with that one). Linda was totally aware of the cosign decision. After all, the girl was Allyssa's friend.
Who are you to decide what "side of the tracks" these days a person is from? Cosigning for a car is a little more then giving a "little chance" expecially when you get the money from the "pews". What did Allyssa get? a car too? Right now your failing in points from a person that knows nothing other then seeing documents and extravaganza You see we supported this in the past!
5. Also 3ABN equipment was never used to tape the National softball tournament. Another production team from out of state did the production. None of the money came from any 3ABN donors. There was a donation to the city by the Mckees to make this possible. Once again another lie.
Lets see, I wonder who your are? You must be very close working there.
6. Also there was never any 170,000 hidden account hidden from Linda!. If you or anyone can prove that one I will give you Fran, $1,000.00!
I see you are a betting Christian?????
7. Danny was not fined by the court for hiding info. So far only Linda has been sanctioned by the court for being misleading. She had to pay several thousand dollars of Danny's attorneys fees. A well deserved sanction as far as I'm concerned.
I also see your are a revengeful person expecially with the fee's coming from the pews. Has it really occurred to you how all this horrific situation could have all transpired without the use of "big money"
The other questions are also misleading and ridiculous so I'll move to the last one and save everyone's time.
Seems you really know how to waste time especially when the evidence of extravaganza are in plain sight!!
Danny doesn't have to answer all the questions concerning his character that are thrown at him by this sorry little group.
Believe me, he doesn't have to. HE has not shunned the appearance of evil.
In fact he is in good company (of sympathyzers) as God has the same problem with Satan attacking His character! (Hmmm, Danny is not God)According to Mrs. White Satan's last greatest attack against God is against his character. (DS sure has a ways to go yet to unspend the money) Eternity will tell the truth about God (that is true)and it will also tell the truth about me and YOU! ( thatis ever the truth) And no (before you get your childish rantings going, I am not comparing Danny to God) After all it isn't just Danny. All of Gods remnant are or will be tried in the fire...it has already been foretold.
Now that really is the truth, it is just that we all will not have to itemize the great wealth and what we did with it!!! and how we got it. What a trial?? Who could stand that and how can it be repayed. OH, I know, Steal the car, ask forgiveness, and then keep the car! How brilliant to use God's promises against God HImself!!Wheeeew
Look at the fruits of 3ABN (I definitely am and see nothing but corruption and sympathizers) then compare to the fruits of your AT group! (I see standing up for the pew money and the corruption of its use) How many people do you think you have been led to Jesus by joining Satan's plan of being the accuser of the brethren? (How many people has the Shelton family taken down is better thought of) Thousands are coming to the knowledge of Christ and the great truths which this church teaches through the ministry of 3ABN through it's speakers and it's board and administration team. (And then the truth of corruptions is found out and if you heard --it would have been better if they never heard the truth. Get it???) I realize not many of your little group are even SDA or if you are it appears that you either do not acknowledge our prophet or do not recognize the SDA church as the remnant church because of some ax you have to grind.
Have you heard? It will be the little groups that enter the gates. The ones that fought for right principle, and honesty. Not the thousands of misled!!
(Right on as Actions are the facts that cannot be denied) Only what's done for Christ will last. ( Hmmm, are you saying works?? will count?) By the way, you don't come from out of Luthern, or Chatholic would you? Your focus of trying to expose other peoples alleged sins [(facts)that you have been privy (seems you are the judge and closest to all)to will never pass heavens approval. (again what is your authority)?
Danny was told 41/2 years ago that God would get rid of him and that be was going to die in less than a year because of Linda's dismissal. (Now is this serious, or is it from the same person the DS was supposed to write his last day warning e-mail? How confusing) I believe that he has found that by standing up for truth and doing what God would have him do that he has been most blessed during the last 4 1/2 years! (Wonder which God he has that provided just wonderful use of honest "pew" millions?) I believe he counts it a joy to be getting the Jesus treatment from those who are an enemy of the gospel. Believe me his joy of holding the goods will not last! I am doubting your mission of exoneration of extraganza.
Give it up already. It's over. (It is not over until evil is) If you Fran want to be here, at AT, and up to your neck spreading lies when Jesus comes...I guess that is up to you. Just think of the possibility that the Spirit may have already passed by DS still holding the money bag clutched in his hand. I do know that isn't what Jesus wants for you. Or Pickle or Joy. (Hmm, the authority of judgement speaks again) They can carry on this ridiculous campaign until our Lord and Saviour comes but the only results that may come from it, (their sins will find them out) is their own lost souls. (that is when their eyes will be opened) That goes for you too Snoopy. (Yes Boss) You can all cry martyr until the end but God knows the heart. He knows your motives. He knows the lies that you have spread. He sees the eagerness and delight you feel with every lie you repeat. He knows every premeditated acted that you have performed to try and bring the 3abn ministry down. Trust me, trust His word....You will answer , in the heavenly courts for every false allegation that you have made public. (You speak with authority of the 100 percent facts. Hmm, wonder who your are)??
Oh well...history here tells me (that you are not a good student of history)these (unguided) words will go completely unheeded (of course) and you will continue your evil escapades.(Talk about escapades to the tune of millions is quite unmatachable) But, at least I have done my duty to try and help you see the light by telling you the truth. (Prove it by documents! facts and actions!)
All red quotes are not done by poster Sam but answered thoughts by Tinka for this challange of the evil of taking "pew" money for extravaganza life style. As Sam's posting has been put on by public viewing although Sam was not addressing me, I could not help answer this crying foul. By the way, how does he part his hair now? You seem to be that close and "Heaven Forbid"
:horse: Giddy up go, feed the horses. (Just a sigment to show anger with this whole mess!) Ill gain of money under the guise of "Good caused all this" IF evil was not present, none of this would have happened. The documents show DS not LS.....Take of your blinders and try again on the other "side of the tracks" since you are the "authority" of it!!
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Danny orchestrated a damage control broadcast on August 10, 2006, on 3ABN in which Alyssa Moore was called a liar by insinuation, when she alleged that Danny had sexually assaulted her. Another broadcast on Dec. 31, 2006, the only one ever registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, and fraudulently so, paid tribute to alleged pedophile Tommy Shelton, attributing his high blood pressure to a ferry ... or was that a fairy?
Someone wrote me and wondered why I said, "or was that a fairy?"
On that broadcast, Tommy was said to be retiring 3 months early because of high blood pressure due to stress. That stress was attributed to four sources: tremendous schedule, weekend traveling, long commuting, and a ferry/fairy. Danny explained that the ferry was a boat, and Tommy said, "It it wasn't for the ferry I could cope."
Thus, the ferry caused his blood pressure to rise more than anything, if Tommy wasn't lying.
That broadcast came just weeks after new allegations of Tommy going after men and boys were made public in Virginia. The same week the allegations were made public, Danny and Tommy reportedly became ill and could not appear at a rally in Florida.
Duane Clem told me that the ferry ride from IL to KY there at Marion, KY is the most relaxing part of the entire commute. Not everyone may agree, but that was his opinion.
Put it all together, and it sounds like when Danny and Tommy said ferry, they meant fairy. Sort of like on August 10, 2006, when Shelley sounded like she was talking about Danny, Linda, and Alyssa, and ended up talking about John the Baptist, Herodias, and Salome. And when Danny trashed the idea on September 6, 2007, of the IRS investigation him, and before and after that was talking about going overseas.
Was Linda ever accused of sending secret messages to Dr. Abrahamsen? If so, there is the possibility that Danny and company do that kind of think.
I read once about some program, maybe it was Daniel Boone. The plot was really a protest against the Vietnam War. So weaving messages into programming is not new.
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If an SDA pastor had an affidavit filed against them accusing them of inappropriately touching an underage female, or any female for that matter, then that pastor would be placed on leave until the situation could be investigated and the charges could be either affirmed or refuted properly.
So why does this person who claims to be an evangelist and a southern gospel singer get hands-off treatment? Especially when he had his own wife (at the time) sacked for allegations that she committed adultery. Allegations that have been clearly refuted.
True, he is not a church employee. But many of the individuals employed at 3ABN have been or are employees of the SDA church and they know what procedures take place when such incidents or accusations have happened before...
Are the employees at 3ABN in denial of such incidents?
Or are they afraid that if they speak up, they will also become targets of someone's thirst for revenge?
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If an SDA pastor had an affidavit filed against them accusing them of inappropriately touching an underage female, or any female for that matter, then that pastor would be placed on leave until the situation could be investigated and the charges could be either affirmed or refuted properly.
So why does this person who claims to be an evangelist and a southern gospel singer get hands-off treatment? Especially when he had his own wife (at the time) sacked for allegations that she committed adultery. Allegations that have been clearly refuted.
True, he is not a church employee. But many of the individuals employed at 3ABN have been or are employees of the SDA church and they know what procedures take place when such incidents or accusations have happened before...
Are the employees at 3ABN in denial of such incidents?
Or are they afraid that if they speak up, they will also become targets of someone's thirst for revenge?
My mother use to warn me that "revenge is mine, sayeth the Lord"...unless I get to you first!!!
Believe me, she spoke softly and carried a BIG STICK!!! And she OFTEN got there first!!! I intend to do the same thing!!!
Is my disdain for this pathetic hypocrisy that obvious? I am always befuddled by the blind eye of Dr Walter Thompson, until I received a background today purportedly regarding his questionable stand on abortions as a surgeon. I must wonder if it would really be possible for a Seventh-day Adventist surgeon to take such a firm and purportedly principled, best defined as DOGMATIC stand, on Dan Matthews management of Faith for Today (Yes he was a director there at one point) and his purportedly callous regard for the principle of Right To Life.
Maybe it would explain why he was so quick to defend to the death the clear "mistakes" made by Danny Lee Shelton, even to the risk and expense of the ministry. Truly befuddling, isn't it?
Cover them up so there will be no, or low, consequences!!! And all "in the precious name of Jesus"? I am pretty sure I saw His footsteps walking the other direction!!!
But then, money is no object when it comes to circling the wagons for the annointed miscreants at 3ABN...was fetal tissue "no object" as well? Just expendable to make way for the un-encumbered life of a young mother? Or is it possible it was fortelling his willingness to simply cover-up the sin and play wilful agent to avoid the young woman's consequences?
I am absolutely befuddled!!! Can it be possible we are simply throwing mud at a pig? Anyone have some lipstick? Someone should have given it a bath and then dressed that thing up!!!
YUP, disdain is the very best term to describe what I think of Danny Lee Shelton, Dr Walter Thompson and anyone else complicit in the cover-up!!! And then there is the very special Brenda Walsh, the most insidious and venomous of them all...what best describes her characteristics: Black Widow or Recluse spider? No amount of mud, lipstip or silicon will make that character shine!!! She simply should be banned...from Women's ministry. She is an excellent example of what women require shelter from!!!
But the bright note was that battery of lawyers they hired. They turned out to be a lot of fun!!! Somewhat civil, very predictable and reasonably good fabricators. Why they could rewrite the entire history of the Human Race and turn us all into saints...Gee, I hope they don't plan on going away anytime soon. We are not yet finished with the "expose the pig" game, with or without lipstick!!! Only God knows just how good they were at blocking discovery at every chance...and when the wall collapsed...well, shall we say they simply ran away like the wimps we expected from the get-go. They simply did not have what it took for a long protracted punic war!!! Particularly one that found the golden trail to the door of the annointed one!!! After all, wasn't that the objective??? Keep them away from the Gold trail and not let the world know just what a pick-pocket Danny lee Shelton really was!!! And were we guaranteed to win at trial!!! Bad for those trial statistics, you know, particulary had they lost to "pro se" defendants!!! Now would you want that on your resume'? Not only was their appeal record a bit wanton, but they were stuck with a "civil liability"!!!
Hey, Bob, what judge was it that saw through them like the glass wall they were? He summed it up just beautifully, much to their chagrin, and they dismissed the very next day!!!
Hey, Goliath, I just picked up a few more stones...wanna play???
Disdainfully Yours,
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Hey, Bob, what judge was it that saw through them like the glass wall they were? He summed it up just beautifully, much to their chagrin, and they dismissed the very next day!!!
The Honorable Magistrate Judge Philip Frazier.
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If an SDA pastor had an affidavit filed against them accusing them of inappropriately touching an underage female, or any female for that matter, then that pastor would be placed on leave until the situation could be investigated and the charges could be either affirmed or refuted properly.
So why does this person who claims to be an evangelist and a southern gospel singer get hands-off treatment?
Because no affidavits have ever been filed against him and there are no complaints which have been made to 3abn, or the police, or his church from any so called victim. If there were, you would all have posted them long since, right? The truth is so easy to prove with facts and evidence, isn't it? Liars always have a disadvantage in that area.
..and btw one of the 10 commandments says "thou shalt not bear false witness."
..ian
Edited to remove inappropriate content.
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Cindy, did you just lie? "no complaints which have been made to 3abn"?
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"No affidavit"? Cindy, it's going to be helpful if you did some research...
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Cindy, did you just lie? "no complaints which have been made to 3abn"?
Instant replay:
"no complaints which have been made to 3abn, or the police, or his church from any so called victim" ( the context being sexual abuse or molestation)
Are you saying there are Bob? Then put your money where your mouth is for once and answer the question in an honest forthright manner, and prove it!
We'll be waiting..
laters
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"No affidavit"? Cindy, it's going to be helpful if you did some research...
Yes Crystal, no affidavits that I am aware of filed against Danny Shelton by any alleged victims. So, at the risk of sounding sarcastic let me remind you that it is impossible to prove a negative, and the burden of proof is on the one making the claims, and accusations.
That would be you sweetie, NOT me. :wave:
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Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?
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ADMIN HAT ON
Ian, you need to watch yourself. I don't have time to follow you around and edit all of your inappropriate posts!!
ADMIN HAT OFF
Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?
No, nor have I forgotten that they weren't made to the police, his church or 3abn, and that when the chairman of the 3abn board wanted to talk to her about it, so they could investigate it they were prevented from doing so, as you were all against that plan, Your modus operandi being go tell it to others and cause them to believe evil with you, rather than taking it to those who can actually do something about it..
Edited to remove inappropriate content
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Cindy, did you just lie? "no complaints which have been made to 3abn"?
Instant replay:
"no complaints which have been made to 3abn, or the police, or his church from any so called victim" ( the context being sexual abuse or molestation)
Are you saying there are Bob? Then put your money where your mouth is for once and answer the question in an honest forthright manner, and prove it!
We'll be waiting..
laters
Aah! I see I misread your post!
But perhaps your post is in essence saying, "There were no complaints filed by Richard Nixon with Santa Claus." You have unrealistically narrowed down the question.
I personally spoke with Elder Denslow about Danny Shelton's global trashing of Alyssa on August 10, 2006. I complained. So you can't say no one complained over the issue.
And Elder Denslow was already familiar with Alyssa's statement before I spoke with him.
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No, nor have I forgotten that they weren't made to the police, his church or 3abn, and that when the chairman of the 3abn board wanted to talk to her about it, so they could investigate it they were prevented from doing so, as you were all against that plan, Your modus operandi being go tell it to others and cause them to believe evil with you, rather than taking it to those who can actually do something about it..
And why would you be surprised that she wouldn't want to talk with the unethical, dishonest Walt Thompson? A man who claims he did an adequate investigation into the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton, and yet never spoke with a single alleged victim or their family members, even when invited to do so?
He can prove that he has turned over a new leaf and is now interested in doing thorough, honest investigations by calling up Duane and Roger Clem, and Brad Dunning, and talking to them. If he needs a number, he can call me.
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It is obvious that you are not a prime witness, or you would not have made this statement, Ian.
It so happened that a prominent leader in the General Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist Church phoned me on behalf of the Chairman of the Board of 3ABN, stating that the accusation of Linda's daughter was very serious if it was true. He presented to me the suggestion of 3ABN to question the girl to find out if her allegations really happened the way she had presented it in her written report.
We discussed it back and forth. It appeared to me that the way the girl was supposed to be questioned would not assure her neutrality. We came to the conclusion that since the girl had signed her written statement before a notary public, and that she had mailed it to a Conference President, no other discussion should be necessary. I was told her statement was sent on to the President of the Illinois Conference. What else happened, I do not know. Neither do I know that anyone one else was asked about questioning Linda's daughter, nor do I know that anyone asked her about it.
A counselor told me it would have been a cruel method of treating the girl if she had to go through the questioning as 3ABN suggested. Is this what you wanted?
Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?
No, nor have I forgotten that they weren't made to the police, his church or 3abn, and that when the chairman of the 3abn board wanted to talk to her about it, so they could investigate it they were prevented from doing so, as you were all against that plan, Your modus operandi being go tell it to others and cause them to believe evil with you, rather than taking it to those who can actually do something about it..
Edited to remove inappropriate content from quoted post.
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Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?
To aid in the precision of this discussion I am posting the American Heritage Dictionary definitions for the following:
affidavit
NOUN:
A written declaration made under oath before a notary public or other authorized officer.
allegation
NOUN:
Something alleged; an assertion: allegations of disloyalty.
The act of alleging.
A statement asserting something without proof: The newspaper's charges of official wrongdoing were mere allegations.
Law An assertion made by a party that must be proved or supported with evidence.
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Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?
To aid in the precision of this discussion I am posting the American Heritage Dictionary definitions for the following:
affidavit
NOUN:
A written declaration made under oath before a notary public or other authorized officer.
allegation
NOUN:
Something alleged; an assertion: allegations of disloyalty.
The act of alleging.
A statement asserting something without proof: The newspaper's charges of official wrongdoing were mere allegations.
Law An assertion made by a party that must be proved or supported with evidence.
Thank you, Grandma Nettie! That makes the statement by Linda's daughter an affidavit, and it should not have been necessary to question it any further.
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Hey, Bob, what judge was it that saw through them like the glass wall they were? He summed it up just beautifully, much to their chagrin, and they dismissed the very next day!!!
The Honorable Magistrate Judge Philip Frazier.
And I don't know how much money you guys, Mr. Joy and Mr. Pickle -- my goodness, you know, somebody is helping you out with this financially because, you know, this is, I mean this is like David and Goliath only David doesn't even have a rock for his sling in terms of fighting this thing out.
You know, I kind of think Three Angels probably should have thought this through a little bit. My guess is that Three Angels probably thought that these guys had probably backed down pretty quick when this defamation lawsuit was filed. And that I understand that organizations like Three Angels operate a lot of their fiscal viability -- not physical, Jane. It's fiscal, F-I-S-C-A-L -- depends upon regular contributions from people who are frequent listeners and watchers, and these kinds of little nasty bits such as of the revelation involving Mr. Shelton's brother tend to or any impropriety on behalf of Mr. Shelton himself would probably tend to erode some of those. And so a nice public way of refuting those statements is by filing a defamation action, and, you know, saying it ain't so, Joe.
But the problem is, is now Three Angels has opened up a very large can of worms here. And it's a very large can of worms. And there are a lot of different ways that financial impropriety could be disguised by clever bookkeeping. There are a lot of -- I'm not saying that that's happened here. Don't anybody get all flustered. I'm just saying that, you know, at this stage of the proceedings, we have to presume that anything is possible. Anything is provable. And there are a number of other transactions, changes in accounting methods, any number of these that might be relevant to prove that on a particular day that something happened.
THE COURT: Let me ask you a question here. Would it be relevant or at least interesting to you if you were on the other side of this case, Mr. Simpson, if it turns out that the documents that the accountant has are different from the documents that actually exist or maintained by Three Angels Broadcasting, that perhaps if Three Angels Broadcasting was selective about the documents they turn over to their accountants?
MR. SIMPSON: If it related -- well, how is that -- I would certainly want the information for the reasons that you said. I'd be hoping that there was some discrepancies, in particular, that I didn't know about. I would like to find some more ammunition to justify the wholesale assault on 3ABN that we've seen. That would make it -- it doesn't make it relevant to the issues of -- that the defamatory statements that they have made, they have something in mind. They had some information about certain transactions, and he's told you about some of them. And they're entitled to discovery on those issues, but they're not entitled to get every scrap of paper to see if there's something else they are looking for.
THE COURT: Mr. Shelton, though -- here's the problem. Mr. Shelton is not some disgruntled clerk who is stealing out of the small, you know, cubby that may be relegated to a particular file clerk or something. You know, Mr. Shelton has access to the whole piggy bank. And I'm not saying, obviously, that he is or was doing anything, but what I'm saying is that if a person who has access to everything were to be using it for private gain, then it is not unreasonable to believe that perhaps other instances might exist where the corporate entity was used improperly for private gain, and that would tend to, even if it had nothing to do.
Let's just say for argument sake that further investigation into this were to disclose that on a different date in a different year that Mr. Shelton stole a hundred thousand dollars from Three Angels Broadcasting using a completely different means than -- that would be relevant to the defamation action now, wouldn't it?
MR. SIMPSON: Let me say first there's been no allegation that anything --
THE COURT: No. No. No. No. You don't need to go into. We don't need a spin on this. I'm just saying and I would have no idea. Hopefully, it doesn't exist, but if it did, wouldn't that be some relevant information to put out in front of a fact finder at a trial?
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Because no affidavits have ever been filed against him and there are no complaints which have been made to 3abn, or the police, or his church from any so called victim. If there were, you would all have posted them long since, right? The truth is so easy to prove with facts and evidence, isn't it? Liars always have a disadvantage in that area.
..and btw one of the 10 commandments says "thou shalt not bear false witness."
..ian
An affidavit was sworn out and sent to the church from a victim.
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Because no affidavits have ever been filed against him and there are no complaints which have been made to 3abn, or the police, or his church from any so called victim. If there were, you would all have posted them long since, right? The truth is so easy to prove with facts and evidence, isn't it? Liars always have a disadvantage in that area.
..and btw one of the 10 commandments says "thou shalt not bear false witness."
..ian
An affidavit was sworn out and sent to the church from a victim.
So who is telling the truth?
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Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?
To aid in the precision of this discussion I am posting the American Heritage Dictionary definitions for the following:
affidavit
NOUN:
A written declaration made under oath before a notary public or other authorized officer.
allegation
NOUN:
Something alleged; an assertion: allegations of disloyalty.
The act of alleging.
A statement asserting something without proof: The newspaper's charges of official wrongdoing were mere allegations.
Law An assertion made by a party that must be proved or supported with evidence.
Thank you, Grandma Nettie! That makes the statement by Linda's daughter an affidavit, and it should not have been necessary to question it any further.
In fact, we produced a Notarized version...didn't they share that with you, Ian??? And why not???
Did I not mention the signed seven page "statement" by Melody Shelton in 2001? Why don't you call her and ask her what was in the statement? I have two people that saw that statement and can assist her memory if need be. I know of at least three others who also saw it and they did take action. Just ask Danny...yes he faced a firestorm from his own board and sacrificed a brother instead...don't you just love that Shelton family??? Any victim in a storm!!!
Ian, your problem is that you could walk right into a room with the annointed one caught red-handed and YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SEEN A THING!!!
It is a state of self induced blindness that has no cure and be aware it can lead to a permanent callousness that could benumb the normal conscience into an irreversable
coldness that would lead to the unpardonable sin. Are there others in your camp sim-
ilarly situated??? I fear there is indication there is...for the blind are known to lead the
blind.
By the way, Grandma, good to hear from your precise self!!! Always so helpful!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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It is obvious that you are not a prime witness, or you would not have made this statement, Ian.
It so happened that a prominent leader in the General Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist Church phoned me on behalf of the Chairman of the Board of 3ABN, stating that the accusation of Linda's daughter was very serious if it was true. He presented to me the suggestion of 3ABN to question the girl to find out if her allegations really happened the way she had presented it in her written report.
We discussed it back and forth. It appeared to me that the way the girl was supposed to be questioned would not assure her neutrality. We came to the conclusion that since the girl had signed her written statement before a notary public, and that she had mailed it to a Conference President, no other discussion should be necessary. I was told her statement was sent on to the President of the Illinois Conference. What else happened, I do not know. Neither do I know that anyone one else was asked about questioning Linda's daughter, nor do I know that anyone asked her about it.
A counselor told me it would have been a cruel method of treating the girl if she had to go through the questioning as 3ABN suggested. Is this what you wanted?
Well unfortunately Johann, alleged victims do need to be questioned in order to get anything accomplished or resolved, that is simply the way the system works... There were, and remain, too many unanswered questions.
Affidavits do need to be filed and taken under oath with the police or an authorized party, and that is not the end of a case.
( If a notarized statement is all it took, then a notarized statement from a liscensed PI about Linda and her Dr friend would resolve all for you, right?)
Reports/complaints do need to be made whether it be to the police, an employer or the individual's church, so that the allegations can be looked into, all parties questioned etc, and that does need to be done by the alleged victim unless they are a minor, which she was not.
That is if the idea is to seek justice and resolve all.
As I said, none of that was done, instead a statement was sent out to those who could do nothing, and it was publicized expressly in contradiction to her alleged wishes as she is alleged to have said she did not want to pursue it and did not want it made public. Or at least Linda said that for her... Many think Linda wrote that statement herself btw, and it seems she has told quite a few Barbara Kerr was behind it, but since it has not been properly reported those questions, along wih others will remain unanswered
BUT in direct contradiction to her "reported" wish to keep it private and not pursue it (other than to mail it out to all kinds of unrelated parties, and uninvolved conference officials) you and WB, etc then brought it up time and again on the internet and made her fodder for the masses.
Instead of letting her talk to the 3abn board who could do something, you decided that would hurt her, and it would be better to let the world talk about her....
and what has that accomplished for her? How has that helped her? How have you put her and her well being first by doing that, or helped her?
On the other hand you have a bunch of people believing evil of DS, and yet since none of you have ever followed the proper channels to report it so that the truth can be established, there is no justice, just ugly allegations to spew and gossip about and pretend you all want to see taken care of, while actually preventing that from happening
So,I guess you have accomplished your goal, and it's alright to disregard her wishes and throw her under the bus..
So, you have reason to be proud of, and continue your work, right?
I feel bad for her and DS both, this will stay with both for a very long time...
That's all I have to say in answer to your question Johann.
..ian
Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?
No, nor have I forgotten that they weren't made to the police, his church or 3abn, and that when the chairman of the 3abn board wanted to talk to her about it, so they could investigate it they were prevented from doing so, as you were all against that plan, Your modus operandi being go tell it to others and cause them to believe evil with you, rather than taking it to those who can actually do something about it..
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Well unfortunately Johann, alleged victims do need to be questioned in order to get anything accomplished or resolved, that is simply the way the system works... There were, and remain, too many unanswered questions.
Well unfortunately Ian, alleged victims (i.e. the Plaintiffs in this case--Danny and his Board) do need to be questioned in order to get anything accomplished or resolved, that is simply the way the system works... There were, and remain, too many unanswered questions.
Affidavits do need to be filed and taken under oath with the police or an authorized party, and that is not the end of a case.
So, shall we start with sworn statements in an open deposition by Danny, John Lomacang, Walt Thompson, Dwight Hall and Mollie Steenson?
( If a notarized statement is all it took, then a notarized statement from a liscensed PI about Linda and her Dr friend would resolve all for you, right?)
Ian, if a notarized statement is all it took, then a notarized statement from a licensed PI from Danny and his Board would resolve all for you, right?
Reports/complaints do need to be made whether it be to the police, an employer or the individual's church, so that the allegations can be looked into, all parties questioned etc, and that does need to be done by the alleged victim unless they are a minor, which she was not.
It's amazing how much we think alike, Ian! Reports/complaints do need to be made whether it be to the police, an employer or the individual's church, so that the allegations can be looked into, all parties questioned etc, and that does need to be done by the alleged victim in this case (Danny/3ABN) unless they are minors, which they are not.
Instead of letting her talk to the 3abn board who could do something, you decided that would hurt her, and it would be better to let the world talk about her....
Yep. Instead of letting Bob and Gailon talk to the 3ABN board, they decided that would hurt them, and it would be better to just sue them in court, hoping they would run away and hide.
and what has that accomplished for her? How has that helped her? How have you put her and her well being first by doing that, or helped her?
and what has that accomplished for them? How has that helped 3ABN? How have they put God's work first by doing that, or helped Him?
On the other hand you have a bunch of people believing evil of DS, and yet since none of you have ever followed the proper channels to report it so that the truth can be established, there is no justice, just ugly allegations to spew and gossip about and pretend you all want to see taken care of, while actually prevent truth fro being known
It's amazing how much we think alike. On the other hand you have a bunch of people believing evil of Bob and Gailon, and yet since none of you have ever followed the proper channels to report it so that the truth can be established, there is no justice, just ugly allegations to spew and gossip about and pretend you all want to see taken care of, while actually prevent truth from being known.
So, you have reason to be proud of, and continue your work, right?
So Ian, you have reason to be ashamed of, and to end your charade, right?
I feel bad for her and DS both, this will stay with both for a very long time...
But I feel worse for Bob and Gailon both, this will stay with them even longer...
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Hey, Bob, what judge was it that saw through them like the glass wall they were? He summed it up just beautifully, much to their chagrin, and they dismissed the very next day!!!
The Honorable Magistrate Judge Philip Frazier.
And I don't know how much money you guys, Mr. Joy and Mr. Pickle -- my goodness, you know, somebody is helping you out with this financially because, you know, this is, I mean this is like David and Goliath only David doesn't even have a rock for his sling in terms of fighting this thing out.
You know, I kind of think Three Angels probably should have thought this through a little bit. My guess is that Three Angels probably thought that these guys had probably backed down pretty quick when this defamation lawsuit was filed. And that I understand that organizations like Three Angels operate a lot of their fiscal viability -- not physical, Jane. It's fiscal, F-I-S-C-A-L -- depends upon regular contributions from people who are frequent listeners and watchers, and these kinds of little nasty bits such as of the revelation involving Mr. Shelton's brother tend to or any impropriety on behalf of Mr. Shelton himself would probably tend to erode some of those. And so a nice public way of refuting those statements is by filing a defamation action, and, you know, saying it ain't so, Joe.
But the problem is, is now Three Angels has opened up a very large can of worms here. And it's a very large can of worms. And there are a lot of different ways that financial impropriety could be disguised by clever bookkeeping. There are a lot of -- I'm not saying that that's happened here. Don't anybody get all flustered. I'm just saying that, you know, at this stage of the proceedings, we have to presume that anything is possible. Anything is provable. And there are a number of other transactions, changes in accounting methods, any number of these that might be relevant to prove that on a particular day that something happened.
THE COURT: Let me ask you a question here. Would it be relevant or at least interesting to you if you were on the other side of this case, Mr. Simpson, if it turns out that the documents that the accountant has are different from the documents that actually exist or maintained by Three Angels Broadcasting, that perhaps if Three Angels Broadcasting was selective about the documents they turn over to their accountants?
MR. SIMPSON: If it related -- well, how is that -- I would certainly want the information for the reasons that you said. I'd be hoping that there was some discrepancies, in particular, that I didn't know about. I would like to find some more ammunition to justify the wholesale assault on 3ABN that we've seen. That would make it -- it doesn't make it relevant to the issues of -- that the defamatory statements that they have made, they have something in mind. They had some information about certain transactions, and he's told you about some of them. And they're entitled to discovery on those issues, but they're not entitled to get every scrap of paper to see if there's something else they are looking for.
THE COURT: Mr. Shelton, though -- here's the problem. Mr. Shelton is not some disgruntled clerk who is stealing out of the small, you know, cubby that may be relegated to a particular file clerk or something. You know, Mr. Shelton has access to the whole piggy bank. And I'm not saying, obviously, that he is or was doing anything, but what I'm saying is that if a person who has access to everything were to be using it for private gain, then it is not unreasonable to believe that perhaps other instances might exist where the corporate entity was used improperly for private gain, and that would tend to, even if it had nothing to do.
Let's just say for argument sake that further investigation into this were to disclose that on a different date in a different year that Mr. Shelton stole a hundred thousand dollars from Three Angels Broadcasting using a completely different means than -- that would be relevant to the defamation action now, wouldn't it?
MR. SIMPSON: Let me say first there's been no allegation that anything --
THE COURT: No. No. No. No. You don't need to go into. We don't need a spin on this. I'm just saying and I would have no idea. Hopefully, it doesn't exist, but if it did, wouldn't that be some relevant information to put out in front of a fact finder at a trial?
Cherry picking again.. to present a warped view.
Additional edit by Snoopy to remove reference to link
(edited to remove link)
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Any SDA pastor would be placed on an administrative leave if charges of inappropriate touching of an underage female were brought up, especially if there was an affidavit to back up those charges. Then the charges would be investigated and either affirmed or refuted. Usually an independent 3rd party would investigate.
Linda Shelton had charges of adultery brought against her and she was fired from 3ABN.
The charges brought against her have been clearly refuted. She has been exonerated of these allegations.
So why isn't Danny Shelton placed on leave and investigated?
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Cherry picking again.. to present a warped view.
And what was taken out of context? Specifically, what was not accurate in what I quoted?
Edited to remove inappropriate reference in quoted post.
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Any SDA pastor would be placed on an administrative leave if charges of inappropriate touching of an underage female were brought up, especially if there was an affidavit to back up those charges. Then the charges would be investigated and either affirmed or refuted. Usually an independent 3rd party would investigate.
Linda Shelton had charges of adultery brought against her and she was fired from 3ABN.
The charges brought against her have been clearly refuted. She has been exonerated of these allegations.
So why isn't Danny Shelton placed on leave and investigated?
You are correct. Something is wrong. Linda gets the boot, but Danny, Tommy, and Melody don't over similar or worse allegations. It doesn't make any sense.
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Cherry picking again.. to present a warped view.
(edited to remove link)
« Last Edit: Today at 09:01:49 AM by sonshineonme »
??? :scratch:
Advent Talk > Issues & Concerns Category > 3ABN (Moderators: Chrissie, Artiste, Snoopy, Emma) > Questions I wish I could ask Danny Shelton on CA
Edited to remove inappropriate reference in quoted post.
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It is obvious that you are not a prime witness, or you would not have made this statement, Ian.
It so happened that a prominent leader in the General Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist Church phoned me on behalf of the Chairman of the Board of 3ABN, stating that the accusation of Linda's daughter was very serious if it was true. He presented to me the suggestion of 3ABN to question the girl to find out if her allegations really happened the way she had presented it in her written report.
We discussed it back and forth. It appeared to me that the way the girl was supposed to be questioned would not assure her neutrality. We came to the conclusion that since the girl had signed her written statement before a notary public, and that she had mailed it to a Conference President, no other discussion should be necessary. I was told her statement was sent on to the President of the Illinois Conference. What else happened, I do not know. Neither do I know that anyone one else was asked about questioning Linda's daughter, nor do I know that anyone asked her about it.
A counselor told me it would have been a cruel method of treating the girl if she had to go through the questioning as 3ABN suggested. Is this what you wanted?
Well unfortunately Johann, alleged victims do need to be questioned in order to get anything accomplished or resolved, that is simply the way the system works... There were, and remain, too many unanswered questions.
Affidavits do need to be filed and taken under oath with the police or an authorized party, and that is not the end of a case.
( If a notarized statement is all it took, then a notarized statement from a liscensed PI about Linda and her Dr friend would resolve all for you, right?)
Reports/complaints do need to be made whether it be to the police, an employer or the individual's church, so that the allegations can be looked into, all parties questioned etc, and that does need to be done by the alleged victim unless they are a minor, which she was not.
That is if the idea is to seek justice and resolve all.
As I said, none of that was done, instead a statement was sent out to those who could do nothing, and it was publicized expressly in contradiction to her alleged wishes as she is alleged to have said she did not want to pursue it and did not want it made public. Or at least Linda said that for her... Many think Linda wrote that statement herself btw, and it seems she has told quite a few Barbara Kerr was behind it, but since it has not been properly reported those questions, along wih others will remain unanswered
BUT in direct contradiction to her "reported" wish to keep it private and not pursue it (other than to mail it out to all kinds of unrelated parties, and uninvolved conference officials) you and WB, etc then brought it up time and again on the internet and made her fodder for the masses.
Instead of letting her talk to the 3abn board who could do something, you decided that would hurt her, and it would be better to let the world talk about her....
and what has that accomplished for her? How has that helped her? How have you put her and her well being first by doing that, or helped her?
On the other hand you have a bunch of people believing evil of DS, and yet since none of you have ever followed the proper channels to report it so that the truth can be established, there is no justice, just ugly allegations to spew and gossip about and pretend you all want to see taken care of, while actually preventing that from happening
So,I guess you have accomplished your goal, and it's alright to disregard her wishes and throw her under the bus..
So, you have reason to be proud of, and continue your work, right?
I feel bad for her and DS both, this will stay with both for a very long time...
That's all I have to say in answer to your question Johann.
..ian
Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?
No, nor have I forgotten that they weren't made to the police, his church or 3abn, and that when the chairman of the 3abn board wanted to talk to her about it, so they could investigate it they were prevented from doing so, as you were all against that plan, Your modus operandi being go tell it to others and cause them to believe evil with you, rather than taking it to those who can actually do something about it..
Ian, are you trying to force some rules invented by a SDA cult on the SDA church? If those rules you list here are in force, why were they not applied to Linda? Here it was Danny Shelton who made the accusations. Why was he not questioned the way 3ABN wanted Linda's daughter to be questioned? Why invent rules that only favor one party?
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Ian, are you trying to force some rules invented by a SDA cult on the SDA church? If those rules you list here are in force, why were they not applied to Linda? Here it was Danny Shelton who made the accusations. Why was he not questioned the way 3ABN wanted Linda's daughter to be questioned? Why invent rules that only favor one party?
They were applied.
Who are you trying to fool with this junk?
Play your games and plant your labels without me, Johann.
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Ian, are you trying to force some rules invented by a SDA cult on the SDA church? If those rules you list here are in force, why were they not applied to Linda? Here it was Danny Shelton who made the accusations. Why was he not questioned the way 3ABN wanted Linda's daughter to be questioned? Why invent rules that only favor one party?
They were applied.
Who are you trying to fool with this junk?
Play your games and plant your labels without me, Johann.
You use very "kind" words for the opinion of others!
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Johann and I think SDAminister, you've brought up an excellent point.
Elder Denslow did tell me that Alyssa was invited to talk with them, but I've never heard yet anyone say that Roger Clem, Brad Dunning, Duane Clem, Glenn Dryden, or any of the others were invited to talk with them.
And they certainly refused to talk to us. When I called Walt in February or so in 2007, he told me that we were going about this the wrong way. We should have talked to them. Okay, can we? No, it's too late.
When I told Gailon what he had said, Gailon said something like it has always been too late. And of course that is true. As a board they've never wanted to talk to us and hear our concerns. Cover up is fine, but actually dealing with issues, no that is unacceptable.
It's a disgrace.
I wonder what Danny thinks about the governor of IL. Should he step down or not? Caught red-handed. Now if Danny is consistent, he might advise the governor to sue Lisa Madigan and the U.S. attorney and the newspaper for defamation and intentional interference with prospective economic business advantage.
Can you imagine how much money the governor is going to lose if they don't allow him to sell that senate seat? He's not even devouring widows' houses to do it, to my knowledge.
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I asked Larry Ewing several times to be allowed to meet with the Board of Directors to share some of my concerns with them. I thought they would be happy for some free consulting. When I first sent my resume to Larry Ewing offering to volunteer, he commented that 3ABN had never had anyone in their organization with the accounting experience and credentials I had. However, I was never allowed access to the Board.
Johann and I think SDAminister, you've brought up an excellent point.
Elder Denslow did tell me that Alyssa was invited to talk with them, but I've never heard yet anyone say that Roger Clem, Brad Dunning, Duane Clem, Glenn Dryden, or any of the others were invited to talk with them.
And they certainly refused to talk to us. When I called Walt in February or so in 2007, he told me that we were going about this the wrong way. We should have talked to them. Okay, can we? No, it's too late.
When I told Gailon what he had said, Gailon said something like it has always been too late. And of course that is true. As a board they've never wanted to talk to us and hear our concerns. Cover up is fine, but actually dealing with issues, no that is unacceptable.
It's a disgrace.
I wonder what Danny thinks about the governor of IL. Should he step down or not? Caught red-handed. Now if Danny is consistent, he might advise the governor to sue Lisa Madigan and the U.S. attorney and the newspaper for defamation and intentional interference with prospective economic business advantage.
Can you imagine how much money the governor is going to lose if they don't allow him to sell that senate seat? He's not even devouring widows' houses to do it, to my knowledge.
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I guess donors should beware of an organization that doesn't want help bringing its accounting practices into line with GAAP.
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Exactly!
I guess donors should beware of an organization that doesn't want help bringing its accounting practices into line with GAAP.
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Elder Denslow did tell me that Alyssa was invited to talk with them, but I've never heard yet anyone say that Roger Clem, Brad Dunning, Duane Clem, Glenn Dryden, or any of the others were invited to talk with them.
Nope. Not only Walt Thompson, but NO ONE from 3ABN has ever contacted me to get my side of the story. The only contact with me ever attempted was two calls from a member of the Shelton family when it became apparent I was going to go public. I didn't answer either call.
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An affidavit has been filed with a notary public accusing the president of 3ABN of unwanted, inappropriate touching of a minor female. Why doesn't the Board of Directors at 3ABN take action on these accusations to find out if they are truthful by summoning an independent 3rd party to investigate the alleged incident? A statute of limitations has certainly not expired.
The Board of Directors appears to be satisfied with just letting the accused in this case dismiss himself by declaring his accuser of being a liar.
Is anyone, including the BOD, being coerced in this situation?
Are there other accusers?
Are there other females who have experienced a similar situation with this person?
Are 3ABN employees instructed not to mention these events?
Are there any former 3ABN employees who could shed some light about such events?
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Nope. Not only Walt Thompson, but NO ONE from 3ABN has ever contacted me to get my side of the story. The only contact with me ever attempted was two calls from a member of the Shelton family when it became apparent I was going to go public. I didn't answer either call.
But Duane, how can people contact you when you won't answer the phone? and how can this be? No one from 3abn contacted you? But you emaile Tommy Shelton yourself, didn't you? and he contacted you back, and again apologized and explained why you two couldn't be alone together anymore, and offered to help you in any way other than that, along with his wife and you wrote him back and said there was nothing to apologize for, and he had never hurt you and saying you didn't need help nor counseling, as he had needed and undergone, right?
So, with the letters you wrote how is it possible they could they not already have your side of the story?
???
I don't get it.
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I don't get it.
Cindy, I don't believe you. I think you just lied.
You have claimed to be conservative, and you don't get why 3ABN should contact a man whom Tommy allegedly spoke and did unspeakable things to?
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An affidavit has been filed with a notary public accusing the president of 3ABN of unwanted, inappropriate touching of a minor female.
I believe the notarized statement in question was not about someone who was a minor at the time.
That fact doesn't excuse Danny of anything.
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I don't get it.
Cindy, I don't believe you. I think you just lied.
You have claimed to be conservative, and you don't get why 3ABN shouldn't contact a man whom Tommy allegedly spoke and did unspeakable things to?
Oh give me a break, Bob.
Duane has written out his statement, he has written letters to Tommy about all this already, and he won't even talk to anybody there, How many times was he asked to on BSDA by appletree and myself and others, I even invited him to a meal at the 3abn campmeeting, and he refuses, and as he just posted he won't even answer the phone when called.
And "unspeakable"? puleez
You speak of the allegations against TS and every other sexual thing you can find or dream up about anyone and everyone related to or at 3abn, over and over and over... to the extent that some now believe you may have some hangups and are obsessed...
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An affidavit has been filed with a notary public accusing the president of 3ABN of unwanted, inappropriate touching of a minor female.
I believe the notarized statement in question was not about someone who was a minor at the time.
That fact doesn't excuse Danny of anything.
Nor does it make him guilty. Thanks for the clarification tho, it was indeed a statement but was not from a minor, nor was it "filed". It is my understanding that after it was mailed out to a bunch of unrelated and uninvolved individuals, Linda Shelton said that she didn't want to pursue anything and did not want anything made public.
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But Duane, how can people contact you when you won't answer the phone? and how can this be? No one from 3abn contacted you? But you emaile Tommy Shelton yourself, didn't you? and he contacted you back, and again apologized and explained why you two couldn't be alone together anymore, and offered to help you in any way other than that, along with his wife and you wrote him back and said there was nothing to apologize for, and he had never hurt you and saying you didn't need help nor counseling, as he had needed and undergone, right?
So, with the letters you wrote how is it possible they could they not already have your side of the story?
???
I don't get it.
You are SO predictable. I PURPOSELY made sure I said I didn't answer the phone because I knew you would respond this way.
I said a member of the Shelton family tried to contact me, NOT someone from 3ABN. Carol, Tommy's wife, left a voicemail on my cell phone the morning before I released my statement asking me to give her a call. She tried to call me again that evening but didn't leave a message. I didn't return the calls because I knew she was just going to try to lay a huge guilt trip on me. She did the exact same thing to my brother. Once my statement was released she never tried to call again.
I say again, NO ONE from 3ABN has contacted me or attempted to contact me to get my side of the story. Walt Thompson can say all he wants that he thinks it would have been inappropriate, but the real reason is that he is just another one of Danny's dime-a-dozen yes people. Either that, or maybe he just isn't man enough.
As far as the emails between Tommy and I, I no longer have a copy of what I sent. I have told you that before. I probably did say the things Tommy has told you I said. You have said before you are a victim of abuse, correct? If so, you should know what it's like to be in denial. That's where I still was when I wrote those emails. It has taken a long time to admit to myself that my pastor, the man whose preaching and teaching I sat under for basically my whole life, the man I TRUSTED, took advantage of me the the way he did.
3ABN doesn't have my side of the story because they have never contacted me, bottom line. The letters you are talking about were between Tommy and myself. They were not to 3ABN. If you say it's OK for Tommy to use those in his defense, I have NUMEROUS hand written and signed letters from Tommy from throughout the years that will CLEARLY show his manipulative demeanor. Some of these were written before I was 18. Are you sure you want to go there?
I eagerly await your response.
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But Duane, how can people contact you when you won't answer the phone? and how can this be? No one from 3abn contacted you? But you emaile Tommy Shelton yourself, didn't you? and he contacted you back, and again apologized and explained why you two couldn't be alone together anymore, and offered to help you in any way other than that, along with his wife and you wrote him back and said there was nothing to apologize for, and he had never hurt you and saying you didn't need help nor counseling, as he had needed and undergone, right?
So, with the letters you wrote how is it possible they could they not already have your side of the story?
???
I don't get it.
You are SO predictable. I PURPOSELY made sure I said I didn't answer the phone because I knew you would respond this way.
I said a member of the Shelton family tried to contact me, NOT someone from 3ABN. Carol, Tommy's wife, left a voicemail on my cell phone the morning before I released my statement asking me to give her a call. She tried to call me again that evening but didn't leave a message. I didn't return the calls because I knew she was just going to try to lay a huge guilt trip on me. She did the exact same thing to my brother. Once my statement was released she never tried to call again.
I say again, NO ONE from 3ABN has contacted me or attempted to contact me to get my side of the story. Walt Thompson can say all he wants that he thinks it would have been inappropriate, but the real reason is that he is just another one of Danny's dime-a-dozen yes people. Either that, or maybe he just isn't man enough.
As far as the emails between Tommy and I, I no longer have a copy of what I sent. I have told you that before. I probably did say the things Tommy has told you I said. You have said before you are a victim of abuse, correct? If so, you should know what it's like to be in denial. That's where I still was when I wrote those emails. It has taken a long time to admit to myself that my pastor, the man whose preaching and teaching I sat under for basically my whole life, the man I TRUSTED, took advantage of me the the way he did.
3ABN doesn't have my side of the story because they have never contacted me, bottom line. The letters you are talking about were between Tommy and myself. They were not to 3ABN. If you say it's OK for Tommy to use those in his defense, I have NUMEROUS hand written and signed letters from Tommy from throughout the years that will CLEARLY show his manipulative demeanor. Some of these were written before I was 18. Are you sure you want to go there?
I eagerly await your response.
Duane,
" You purposely didn't answer the phone because you knew I would respond this way"? I am sorry, I have a little problem accepting that one, but moving on..
I guess you no longer believe appletree was from 3abn and speaking from that perspective so that doesn't count either.. regardless, you and I both know I have been asking you for the longest time to go talk to Danny, to go talk to 3abn. It's nice how you saved all Tommy's letters but not your own, so please take them with you when you go. This all certainly need to be discussed and resolved between you and Tommy and those at 3abn, instead of rehashed and fought over on the internet by those who can not resolve anything.
Let me know how it all works out please.
With blessing and prayers,
..ian
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Dude, I guess you no longer believe appletree was from 3abn and speaking from that perspective so that doesn't count either.. but regardless, you and I both know I have been asking you for the longest time to go talk to Danny, to go talk to 3abn. It's nice how you saved all Tommy's letters but not your own, so please take them with you when you go. This all certainly need to be discussed and resolved instead of rehashed and fought over on the internet by those who can not resolve anything.
Let me know how it all works out please.
blessings,
..ian
Then why do you keep sticking your nose in it? If you don't want my answers, don't ask me questions.
BTW, didn't you say you were leaving......again?
P.S. Just noticed your edit. You TOTALLY misquoted me. Reread please.
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Then why do you keep sticking your nose in it? If you don't want my answers, don't ask me questions.
BTW, didn't you say you were leaving......again?
P.S. Just noticed your edit. You TOTALLY misquoted me. Reread please.
I'm sorry about my edit, I didn't realize you were already replying, I thought it might be offensive to you to have me call you Dude, even though I didn't mean it that way, and that I should be clearer about what I was trying to say.
And now that I looked at what you were actually saying, I see that you purposely posted that to get a response from me? So I misunderstood.
Which brings me to why I keep "sticking my nose in it." -- I was replying to your post, and I did want your answers, and I also want this resolved.
I still hope and pray you go attempt to talk with those who can help.
Now I am leaving again, but am sure I will be back sooner or later...
..ian
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I'm sorry about my edit, I didn't realize you were already replying, I thought it might be offensive to you to have me call you Dude, even though I didn't mean it that way, and that I should be clearer about what I was trying to say.
And now that I looked at what you were actually saying, I see that you purposely posted that to get a response from me? So I misunderstood.
Regardless I still hope and pray you go attempt to talk with those who can help.
..ian
But, Cindy, here's what you don't understand. Danny doesn't WANT to help. All he wants is for this to go away. The same goes for Tommy. I have known the Sheltons for years. This is how they operate.
If I thought for one minute that there was a chance this could be resolved, I'd be willing to go talk to them. The way it is now, however, I would be walking into a mine field. I'm NOT putting myself in that position. I'm not the one who created this mess in the first place. It's not my place to initiate contact.
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It is my understanding that after it was mailed out to a bunch of unrelated and uninvolved individuals, Linda Shelton said that she didn't want to pursue anything and did not want anything made public.
It would be interesting to find out how you have spun your way to those understandings. Or is it someone else who is doing the spinning for you? Someone who doesn't mind some false statements made to cover up his evil actions? Do you think Linda would agree to what you are saying about her? Unless you can document what you have said your words are a blatant spin to give a false impression.
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It is my understanding that after it was mailed out to a bunch of unrelated and uninvolved individuals, Linda Shelton said that she didn't want to pursue anything and did not want anything made public.
It would be interesting to find out how you have spun your way to those understandings. Or is it someone else who is doing the spinning for you? Someone who doesn't mind some false statements made to cover up his evil actions? Do you think Linda would agree to what you are saying about her? Unless you can document what you have said your words are a blatant spin to give a false impression.
This is the topic "questions I would ask....", well, maybe Ian asked him (or "them"), or maybe someone else asked and told Ian what happened, so now Ian knows just what happened. What you don't see Ian is that you are being used as a tool, and you are just bright enough to think you are too smart to be used. I think you are being used, and it shows by the things you say and the way you continue to spin and support something that just isn't so, just not the way you wish it was. In my opinion, you are being manipulated. When you can go so far as to think YOU know what and how things happened with Tommy Shelton and all those boys/men, or with Alyssa and her sworn statement, honestly you have no right to say anything about these things and others, these things you have no clue to know about. You only cause more pain by your constant denial of what others who were there say. Is that what you are really out to do?
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It would sure be nice, Ian, if you were as interested in resolving the garbage and untruths you allow at you own site as you seem to be about Duane's situation... :dunno:
Then why do you keep sticking your nose in it? If you don't want my answers, don't ask me questions.
BTW, didn't you say you were leaving......again?
P.S. Just noticed your edit. You TOTALLY misquoted me. Reread please.
I'm sorry about my edit, I didn't realize you were already replying, I thought it might be offensive to you to have me call you Dude, even though I didn't mean it that way, and that I should be clearer about what I was trying to say.
And now that I looked at what you were actually saying, I see that you purposely posted that to get a response from me? So I misunderstood.
Which brings me to why I keep "sticking my nose in it." -- I was replying to your post, and I did want your answers, and I also want this resolved.
I still hope and pray you go attempt to talk with those who can help.
Now I am leaving again, but am sure I will be back sooner or later...
..ian
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It is my understanding that after it was mailed out to a bunch of unrelated and uninvolved individuals, Linda Shelton said that she didn't want to pursue anything and did not want anything made public.
It would be interesting to find out how you have spun your way to those understandings. Or is it someone else who is doing the spinning for you? Someone who doesn't mind some false statements made to cover up his evil actions? Do you think Linda would agree to what you are saying about her? Unless you can document what you have said your words are a blatant spin to give a false impression.
Just so the facts are clear, this is an answer from Linda Shelton to an email I sent to her to advise her that her daughter's letter had been posted again. It is only the beginning of her email to me because she specified that that balance was private to me:
----- Original Message -----
From: linda@lindashelton.org
To: ***Me***
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:08 AM
Subject: RE: AM's Letter
Hi *******,
Thanks for writing. Johann called me earlier and told me Alyssa's letter has been revived. Her letter was NEVER intended for public viewing. She wrote it for the purpose of church authorities getting this message only.
Back on July 5, 2007, as I drove her around sight seeing, Linda Shelton offered to answer any questions I might have. We discussed many things over those hours, including the posting of her daughter's letter. She confirmed that her daughter was furious that it had been made public and also that her daughter has no plans to pursue charges against Danny or use her experience in any way. This part of the discussion was not among the things that she stated were confidential. Her feelings about who posted the letter and why it was posted, as well as just how she felt about the person who posted it, were among the things that she asked me not to share with others.
With Linda's daughter's letter being exploited, yet again, I shared with Ian what Linda had openly shared with me. She did not get this particular information from "Someone who doesn't mind some false statements made to cover up his evil actions?". I provided it during an off-forum discussion about how this type of exploitation re-abuses alleged victims.
Those who continue to bring up Linda's daughter's letter to support their case against Danny Shelton are not respecting the wishes of this young woman. They are potetially causing her further stress and pain for their own purposes and should be ashamed of using such tactics. If they are truly concerned for her welfare, they will take their concerns to her privately.
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I'm sorry about my edit, I didn't realize you were already replying, I thought it might be offensive to you to have me call you Dude, even though I didn't mean it that way, and that I should be clearer about what I was trying to say.
And now that I looked at what you were actually saying, I see that you purposely posted that to get a response from me? So I misunderstood.
Regardless I still hope and pray you go attempt to talk with those who can help.
..ian
But, Cindy, here's what you don't understand. Danny doesn't WANT to help. All he wants is for this to go away. The same goes for Tommy. I have known the Sheltons for years. This is how they operate.
If I thought for one minute that there was a chance this could be resolved, I'd be willing to go talk to them. The way it is now, however, I would be walking into a mine field. I'm NOT putting myself in that position. I'm not the one who created this mess in the first place. It's not my place to initiate contact.
Duane,
I have to admit that I was dismayed to see my friend Ian taking you to task this morning as was done quite a few times by several members over on BSDA. As a victim of abuse myself, I have also experienced those who attempt to put the blame, even if just partially, on the abused.
I was so relieved to see your following response to Ian:
You have said before you are a victim of abuse, correct? If so, you should know what it's like to be in denial. That's where I still was when I wrote those emails. It has taken a long time to admit to myself that my pastor, the man whose preaching and teaching I sat under for basically my whole life, the man I TRUSTED, took advantage of me the the way he did.
When the evidence and the current understandings of the system of abuse strongly support that you were a victim of pastoral abuse, I would hope that members will cease personal attacts on you and focus on those things which are not clearly factual instead.
Now, I will go back to simply reading again.
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I'll bet Linda wouldn't offer to answer any questions you might have now, Jeanette!! I am quite certain Linda is among the group of folks who have learned not to trust you with information they want to keep private!!
Back on July 5, 2007, as I drove her around sight seeing, Linda Shelton offered to answer any questions I might have. We discussed many things over those hours, including the posting of her daughter's letter. She confirmed that her daughter was furious that it had been made public and also that her daughter has no plans to pursue charges against Danny or use her experience in any way. This part of the discussion was not among the things that she stated were confidential. Her feelings about who posted the letter and why it was posted, as well as just how she felt about the person who posted it, were among the things that she asked me not to share with others.
With Linda's daughter's letter being exploited, yet again, I shared with Ian what Linda had openly shared with me. She did not get this particular information from "Someone who doesn't mind some false statements made to cover up his evil actions?". I provided it during an off-forum discussion about how this type of exploitation re-abuses alleged victims.
Those who continue to bring up Linda's daughter's letter to support their case against Danny Shelton are not respecting the wishes of this young woman. They are potetially causing her further stress and pain for their own purposes and should be ashamed of using such tactics. If they are truly concerned for her welfare, they will take their concerns to her privately.
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Just so it is abundantly clear to all, the information I shared from Linda Shelton was NOT specified as private or confidential. There were things discussed in both our face-to-face conversation and the email that WERE specified as private and/or confidential, which I why I didn't post them here.
It is up to each individual to determine who to believe about anything. Some choose to believe facts/truth, others choose to believe lies for whatever reason. Some even attempt to shift the focus from facts to an attack on the messenger.
While I don't enjoy having my character impuned or being charged with things I am not guilty of, it is more important for me to follow principle and defend the facts as I know them. That is the only reason I even posted here today... to attempt to defend Alyssa against further exploitation, according to her wishes, and to stand up for Duane.
It is my understanding that after it was mailed out to a bunch of unrelated and uninvolved individuals, Linda Shelton said that she didn't want to pursue anything and did not want anything made public.
It would be interesting to find out how you have spun your way to those understandings. Or is it someone else who is doing the spinning for you? Someone who doesn't mind some false statements made to cover up his evil actions? Do you think Linda would agree to what you are saying about her? Unless you can document what you have said your words are a blatant spin to give a false impression.
Just so the facts are clear, this is an answer from Linda Shelton to an email I sent to her to advise her that her daughter's letter had been posted again. It is only the beginning of her email to me because she specified that that balance was private to me:
----- Original Message -----
From: linda@lindashelton.org
To: ***Me***
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:08 AM
Subject: RE: AM's Letter
Hi *******,
Thanks for writing. Johann called me earlier and told me Alyssa's letter has been revived. Her letter was NEVER intended for public viewing. She wrote it for the purpose of church authorities getting this message only.
Back on July 5, 2007, as I drove her around sight seeing, Linda Shelton offered to answer any questions I might have. We discussed many things over those hours, including the posting of her daughter's letter. She confirmed that her daughter was furious that it had been made public and also that her daughter has no plans to pursue charges against Danny or use her experience in any way. This part of the discussion was not among the things that she stated were confidential. Her feelings about who posted the letter and why it was posted, as well as just how she felt about the person who posted it, were among the things that she asked me not to share with others.
With Linda's daughter's letter being exploited, yet again, I shared with Ian what Linda had openly shared with me. She did not get this particular information from "Someone who doesn't mind some false statements made to cover up his evil actions?". I provided it during an off-forum discussion about how this type of exploitation re-abuses alleged victims.
Those who continue to bring up Linda's daughter's letter to support their case against Danny Shelton are not respecting the wishes of this young woman. They are potetially causing her further stress and pain for their own purposes and should be ashamed of using such tactics. If they are truly concerned for her welfare, they will take their concerns to her privately.
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Doesn't change my opinion at all. But since Ian refuses to say what BSDA chats of mine she has seen, maybe you could shed some light on that yet unanswered question, Jeanette...or maybe you could ask Cindi...
And by the way, since you are so busy defending people... Why haven't you spoken up against the blatant untruths Ian allows to be posted on her site? Untruths that YOU KNOW are blatant lies, because I CONFIDED IN YOU!! I think you're a bit selective in who you choose to defend. But I guess when one is so firmly perched atop a fence trying to play both sides they can't be expected to catch everything...
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GrandmaNettie,
I appreciate your kind words of support. I mean that sincerely. Thank you.
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Doesn't change my opinion at all. But since Ian refuses to say what BSDA chats of mine she has seen, maybe you could shed some light on that yet unanswered question, Jeanette...or maybe you could ask Cindi...
And by the way, since you are so busy defending people... Why haven't you spoken up against the blatant untruths Ian allows to be posted on her site? Untruths that YOU KNOW are blatant lies, because I CONFIDED IN YOU!! I think you're a bit selective in who you choose to defend. But I guess when one is so firmly perched atop a fence trying to play both sides they can't be expected to catch everything...
I have no clue what BSDA chats Ian was referring to. I only know that she was telling the truth that I didn't provide her with any. It may even be a question of semantics, for that matter. I can only speak for myself regarding the subject. I will state once more for the record that I have not betrayed your confidences.
Whle I don't know what untruths you are referring to on 3abntalk. I do know that at least one member there has come to erroneous conclusions when reading your court record they posted there. I think letting the court record speak for itself is the best defense. When I read that particular member's conlusions I was rather embarassed for the member. I doubt that many who use common sense can reach the same conclusions that the one member reached by reading the two pages of your court record as posted.
There are many untruths being posted on this site that I have not spoken up against. People will believe what they choose to believe. There is little I can do to alter that.
You are correct. I am a bit selective about who I choose to defend. I defended Alyssa because she does not have a voice here and I happen to know her wishes. I defended Duane because I understand the system he is emerging from and want to encourage him in his resolve. I don't speak out much any more because my perspective is an irritation here, so I prefer to stay mostly mute. There is no fence under my bum. I have always been open about having friends on both sides of the controversy. There are very few people involved in this that I don't value, respect and consider friends.
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Hhmm. And I believe there is recent, documented proof otherwise. Sorry Jeanette - I don't believe you. Have you jumped on your good friend Ian to set the record straight? You and Cindi are simply behind-the-scenes manipulators. I pity you.
Doesn't change my opinion at all. But since Ian refuses to say what BSDA chats of mine she has seen, maybe you could shed some light on that yet unanswered question, Jeanette...or maybe you could ask Cindi...
And by the way, since you are so busy defending people... Why haven't you spoken up against the blatant untruths Ian allows to be posted on her site? Untruths that YOU KNOW are blatant lies, because I CONFIDED IN YOU!! I think you're a bit selective in who you choose to defend. But I guess when one is so firmly perched atop a fence trying to play both sides they can't be expected to catch everything...
I have no clue what BSDA chats Ian was referring to. I only know that she was telling the truth that I didn't provide her with any. It may even be a question of semantics, for that matter. I can only speak for myself regarding the subject. I will state once more for the record that I have not betrayed your confidences.
Whle I don't know what untruths you are referring to on 3abntalk. I do know that at least one member there has come to erroneous conclusions when reading your court record they posted there. I think letting the court record speak for itself is the best defense. When I read that particular member's conlusions I was rather embarassed for the member. I doubt that many who use common sense can reach the same conclusions that the one member reached by reading the two pages of your court record as posted.
There are many untruths being posted on this site that I have not spoken up against. People will believe what they choose to believe. There is little I can do to alter that.
You are correct. I am a bit selective about who I choose to defend. I defended Alyssa because she does not have a voice here and I happen to know her wishes. I defended Duane because I understand the system he is emerging from and want to encourage him in his resolve. I don't speak out much any more because my perspective is an irritation here, so I prefer to stay mostly mute. There is no fence under my bum. I have always been open about having friends on both sides of the controversy. There are very few people involved in this that I don't value, respect and consider friends.
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I'm not the one who created this mess in the first place. It's not my place to initiate contact.
Exactly. Your having to contact them would kind of be like Simpson asking us to write up a settlement proposal. They started it, so they should do that first.
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GrandmaNettie,
I appreciate your kind words of support. I mean that sincerely. Thank you.
You're sincerely welcome, Duane.
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It is my understanding that after it was mailed out to a bunch of unrelated and uninvolved individuals, Linda Shelton said that she didn't want to pursue anything and did not want anything made public.
It would be interesting to find out how you have spun your way to those understandings. Or is it someone else who is doing the spinning for you? Someone who doesn't mind some false statements made to cover up his evil actions? Do you think Linda would agree to what you are saying about her? Unless you can document what you have said your words are a blatant spin to give a false impression.
Just so the facts are clear, this is an answer from Linda Shelton to an email I sent to her to advise her that her daughter's letter had been posted again. It is only the beginning of her email to me because she specified that that balance was private to me:
I'm not sure that what you posted makes what Ian posted accurate.
It was mailed out to unrelated and uninvolved individuals with Alyssa's permission in the summer of 2006. I do not recall any statement by Linda after and because of that that would matcvh what Ian said.
Those who continue to bring up Linda's daughter's letter to support their case against Danny Shelton are not respecting the wishes of this young woman. They are potetially causing her further stress and pain for their own purposes and should be ashamed of using such tactics. If they are truly concerned for her welfare, they will take their concerns to her privately.
The situation is a bit different now, since the whole thing is a matter of court record.
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Please post what you consider "recent documented proof" and allow the readers to determine if it is valid and if it applies rather than simply alleging it exists.
Hhmm. And I believe there is recent, documented proof otherwise. Sorry Jeanette - I don't believe you. Have you jumped on your good friend Ian to set the record straight? You and Cindi are simply behind-the-scenes manipulators. I pity you.
Doesn't change my opinion at all. But since Ian refuses to say what BSDA chats of mine she has seen, maybe you could shed some light on that yet unanswered question, Jeanette...or maybe you could ask Cindi...
And by the way, since you are so busy defending people... Why haven't you spoken up against the blatant untruths Ian allows to be posted on her site? Untruths that YOU KNOW are blatant lies, because I CONFIDED IN YOU!! I think you're a bit selective in who you choose to defend. But I guess when one is so firmly perched atop a fence trying to play both sides they can't be expected to catch everything...
I have no clue what BSDA chats Ian was referring to. I only know that she was telling the truth that I didn't provide her with any. It may even be a question of semantics, for that matter. I can only speak for myself regarding the subject. I will state once more for the record that I have not betrayed your confidences.
Whle I don't know what untruths you are referring to on 3abntalk. I do know that at least one member there has come to erroneous conclusions when reading your court record they posted there. I think letting the court record speak for itself is the best defense. When I read that particular member's conlusions I was rather embarassed for the member. I doubt that many who use common sense can reach the same conclusions that the one member reached by reading the two pages of your court record as posted.
There are many untruths being posted on this site that I have not spoken up against. People will believe what they choose to believe. There is little I can do to alter that.
You are correct. I am a bit selective about who I choose to defend. I defended Alyssa because she does not have a voice here and I happen to know her wishes. I defended Duane because I understand the system he is emerging from and want to encourage him in his resolve. I don't speak out much any more because my perspective is an irritation here, so I prefer to stay mostly mute. There is no fence under my bum. I have always been open about having friends on both sides of the controversy. There are very few people involved in this that I don't value, respect and consider friends.
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It is my understanding that after it was mailed out to a bunch of unrelated and uninvolved individuals, Linda Shelton said that she didn't want to pursue anything and did not want anything made public.
It would be interesting to find out how you have spun your way to those understandings. Or is it someone else who is doing the spinning for you? Someone who doesn't mind some false statements made to cover up his evil actions? Do you think Linda would agree to what you are saying about her? Unless you can document what you have said your words are a blatant spin to give a false impression.
Just so the facts are clear, this is an answer from Linda Shelton to an email I sent to her to advise her that her daughter's letter had been posted again. It is only the beginning of her email to me because she specified that that balance was private to me:
I'm not sure that what you posted makes what Ian posted accurate.
It was mailed out to unrelated and uninvolved individuals with Alyssa's permission in the summer of 2006. I do not recall any statement by Linda after and because of that that would matcvh what Ian said.
Those who continue to bring up Linda's daughter's letter to support their case against Danny Shelton are not respecting the wishes of this young woman. They are potetially causing her further stress and pain for their own purposes and should be ashamed of using such tactics. If they are truly concerned for her welfare, they will take their concerns to her privately.
The situation is a bit different now, since the whole thing is a matter of court record.
I highlighted the words in Ian's post that I was comparing to Linda Shelton's email to me but forgot to mention that I was bolding them for that purpose. I didn't bold the first part because that is not what Linda Shelton said. It was, instead, Ian's interpretation or opinion of who the letter was mailed out to.
Unless Alyssa has given her approval for her letter and her allegations to be discussed publically, the situation is NOT any different now simply because you have chosen to make the whole thing a matter of court record. That doesn't change how the discussion affects Alyssa. If she has not changed her mind about having her letter and her allegations publically discussed, she is being exploited and re-abused so that you can further your own case against 3abn and Danny Shelton.
Has she specifically given her approval or are you proceeding with this against her specific wishes? Those who feel they have been victimized should have the right to choose whether or not they are cast into the public eye. Look at the date of the email to me from Linda Shelton. Less than a year has elapsed since Linda reaffirmed Alyssa's position:
----- Original Message -----
From: linda@lindashelton.org
To: ***Me***
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:08 AM
Subject: RE: AM's Letter
Hi *******,
Thanks for writing. Johann called me earlier and told me Alyssa's letter has been revived. Her letter was NEVER intended for public viewing. She wrote it for the purpose of church authorities getting this message only.
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Naw - thanks anyway. It is a private communication. But you didn't answer my question. If you are as "in search of the truth" as you claim to be, have you confronted your "good friend Ian" about the lies?
Please post what you consider "recent documented proof" and allow the readers to determine if it is valid and if it applies rather than simply alleging it exists.
Hhmm. And I believe there is recent, documented proof otherwise. Sorry Jeanette - I don't believe you. Have you jumped on your good friend Ian to set the record straight? You and Cindi are simply behind-the-scenes manipulators. I pity you.
Doesn't change my opinion at all. But since Ian refuses to say what BSDA chats of mine she has seen, maybe you could shed some light on that yet unanswered question, Jeanette...or maybe you could ask Cindi...
And by the way, since you are so busy defending people... Why haven't you spoken up against the blatant untruths Ian allows to be posted on her site? Untruths that YOU KNOW are blatant lies, because I CONFIDED IN YOU!! I think you're a bit selective in who you choose to defend. But I guess when one is so firmly perched atop a fence trying to play both sides they can't be expected to catch everything...
I have no clue what BSDA chats Ian was referring to. I only know that she was telling the truth that I didn't provide her with any. It may even be a question of semantics, for that matter. I can only speak for myself regarding the subject. I will state once more for the record that I have not betrayed your confidences.
Whle I don't know what untruths you are referring to on 3abntalk. I do know that at least one member there has come to erroneous conclusions when reading your court record they posted there. I think letting the court record speak for itself is the best defense. When I read that particular member's conlusions I was rather embarassed for the member. I doubt that many who use common sense can reach the same conclusions that the one member reached by reading the two pages of your court record as posted.
There are many untruths being posted on this site that I have not spoken up against. People will believe what they choose to believe. There is little I can do to alter that.
You are correct. I am a bit selective about who I choose to defend. I defended Alyssa because she does not have a voice here and I happen to know her wishes. I defended Duane because I understand the system he is emerging from and want to encourage him in his resolve. I don't speak out much any more because my perspective is an irritation here, so I prefer to stay mostly mute. There is no fence under my bum. I have always been open about having friends on both sides of the controversy. There are very few people involved in this that I don't value, respect and consider friends.
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Because no affidavits have ever been filed against him and there are no complaints which have been made to 3abn, or the police, or his church from any so called victim. If there were, you would all have posted them long since, right? The truth is so easy to prove with facts and evidence, isn't it? Liars always have a disadvantage in that area.
..and btw one of the 10 commandments says "thou shalt not bear false witness."
..ian
The statement above is the first falsehood we are dealing with here. Ian even quotes from the commandment as if that gives her license to tell a lie, - apparently because she feels the facts are confidential and/or because she with the aid of another "friend" twists how Linda has expressed herself about how she does not want her daughter exploited.
I can state this much that it was a "friend" who broke our confidence and "leaked" Linda's daughter's statement to people who were not supposed to receive it. This leakage caused an open discussion of her statement, which should not have taken place - and this is what Linda has in mind.
Fact is that Alyssa has never withdrawn her statement. She wrote it herself, and the intention was that is should go to leaders in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. She expected those leaders to investigate. . . and not treat Alyssa as a criminal because she revealed her step-father's abuse.
When I was asked to get Alyssa to submit to the "trial", I was also told that 3ABN had no intention of changing any of the evil things they had done to Linda, even though Church leaders had tried to get them to renew their former "investigations". My understanding was that they only wanted to get some people who had the skills to brand Alyssa as a liar to clear Danny's name.
Linda's concern was that Alyssa would not be exploited, humiliated, and destroyed any further than all what that cruel experience had done to her. I have told Linda what you have said about her here, and she feels you are twisting her words to mean something she did not intend - and therefore breaking the commandment you quoted.
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One might wonder about the credibility of your statement when you post publically that there is recent documented proof against me while you knew full well you were not going to share it because it was private.
I don't pull punches with any of my friends. I confront what I see as lies and expect the same from them.
Naw - thanks anyway. It is a private communication. But you didn't answer my question. If you are as "in search of the truth" as you claim to be, have you confronted your "good friend Ian" about the lies?
Please post what you consider "recent documented proof" and allow the readers to determine if it is valid and if it applies rather than simply alleging it exists.
Hhmm. And I believe there is recent, documented proof otherwise. Sorry Jeanette - I don't believe you. Have you jumped on your good friend Ian to set the record straight? You and Cindi are simply behind-the-scenes manipulators. I pity you.
Doesn't change my opinion at all. But since Ian refuses to say what BSDA chats of mine she has seen, maybe you could shed some light on that yet unanswered question, Jeanette...or maybe you could ask Cindi...
And by the way, since you are so busy defending people... Why haven't you spoken up against the blatant untruths Ian allows to be posted on her site? Untruths that YOU KNOW are blatant lies, because I CONFIDED IN YOU!! I think you're a bit selective in who you choose to defend. But I guess when one is so firmly perched atop a fence trying to play both sides they can't be expected to catch everything...
I have no clue what BSDA chats Ian was referring to. I only know that she was telling the truth that I didn't provide her with any. It may even be a question of semantics, for that matter. I can only speak for myself regarding the subject. I will state once more for the record that I have not betrayed your confidences.
Whle I don't know what untruths you are referring to on 3abntalk. I do know that at least one member there has come to erroneous conclusions when reading your court record they posted there. I think letting the court record speak for itself is the best defense. When I read that particular member's conlusions I was rather embarassed for the member. I doubt that many who use common sense can reach the same conclusions that the one member reached by reading the two pages of your court record as posted.
There are many untruths being posted on this site that I have not spoken up against. People will believe what they choose to believe. There is little I can do to alter that.
You are correct. I am a bit selective about who I choose to defend. I defended Alyssa because she does not have a voice here and I happen to know her wishes. I defended Duane because I understand the system he is emerging from and want to encourage him in his resolve. I don't speak out much any more because my perspective is an irritation here, so I prefer to stay mostly mute. There is no fence under my bum. I have always been open about having friends on both sides of the controversy. There are very few people involved in this that I don't value, respect and consider friends.
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One might? I said there was recent, documented proof that something you said was not entirely true. I never said I was going to share it publically, unlike you and Cindi!! Maybe I should refresh your memory with a thread you managed to get removed recently.
And you still haven't answered my question. If you don't "pull punches" and you "confront...lies", have you discussed the untruths posted at Ian's site with her? What was her response? Does she care?
One might wonder about the credibility of your statement when you post publically that there is recent documented proof against me while you knew full well you were not going to share it because it was private.
I don't pull punches with any of my friends. I confront what I see as lies and expect the same from them.
Naw - thanks anyway. It is a private communication. But you didn't answer my question. If you are as "in search of the truth" as you claim to be, have you confronted your "good friend Ian" about the lies?
Please post what you consider "recent documented proof" and allow the readers to determine if it is valid and if it applies rather than simply alleging it exists.
Hhmm. And I believe there is recent, documented proof otherwise. Sorry Jeanette - I don't believe you. Have you jumped on your good friend Ian to set the record straight? You and Cindi are simply behind-the-scenes manipulators. I pity you.
Doesn't change my opinion at all. But since Ian refuses to say what BSDA chats of mine she has seen, maybe you could shed some light on that yet unanswered question, Jeanette...or maybe you could ask Cindi...
And by the way, since you are so busy defending people... Why haven't you spoken up against the blatant untruths Ian allows to be posted on her site? Untruths that YOU KNOW are blatant lies, because I CONFIDED IN YOU!! I think you're a bit selective in who you choose to defend. But I guess when one is so firmly perched atop a fence trying to play both sides they can't be expected to catch everything...
I have no clue what BSDA chats Ian was referring to. I only know that she was telling the truth that I didn't provide her with any. It may even be a question of semantics, for that matter. I can only speak for myself regarding the subject. I will state once more for the record that I have not betrayed your confidences.
Whle I don't know what untruths you are referring to on 3abntalk. I do know that at least one member there has come to erroneous conclusions when reading your court record they posted there. I think letting the court record speak for itself is the best defense. When I read that particular member's conlusions I was rather embarassed for the member. I doubt that many who use common sense can reach the same conclusions that the one member reached by reading the two pages of your court record as posted.
There are many untruths being posted on this site that I have not spoken up against. People will believe what they choose to believe. There is little I can do to alter that.
You are correct. I am a bit selective about who I choose to defend. I defended Alyssa because she does not have a voice here and I happen to know her wishes. I defended Duane because I understand the system he is emerging from and want to encourage him in his resolve. I don't speak out much any more because my perspective is an irritation here, so I prefer to stay mostly mute. There is no fence under my bum. I have always been open about having friends on both sides of the controversy. There are very few people involved in this that I don't value, respect and consider friends.
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And now I see that one of your little friends has taken to attacking Duane at Ian's site. Are you going to rush over there to rebut that Jeanette??
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Specify the "lies" you are referring to and I will be glad to tell you whether or not I have confronted them. If you are referring to the post where the member drew inaccurate conclusions from the court records in your case, I said the records best spoke for themselves. How many really think "Bond" amount refers to the fine you were charged? Those from here who are registered members on 3abntalk could certainly set the record straight there and here as well. I have chosen not to post often here and I only read occasionally over there.
As all of us know, forum discussions are generally comprised of the POVs and opinions of the various members. Those opinions and perspectives, are not always accurate and not always truthful. It is up to each individual member to determine what they choose to believe.
You and others have formed a negative opinion about me, even though I believe it is factually challenged one. Your perception is your reality. Nothing I can say or do will alter your opinion.
One might? I said there was recent, documented proof that something you said was not entirely true. I never said I was going to share it publically, unlike you and Cindi!! Maybe I should refresh your memory with a thread you managed to get removed recently.
And you still haven't answered my question. If you don't "pull punches" and you "confront...lies", have you discussed the untruths posted at Ian's site with her? What was her response? Does she care?
One might wonder about the credibility of your statement when you post publically that there is recent documented proof against me while you knew full well you were not going to share it because it was private.
I don't pull punches with any of my friends. I confront what I see as lies and expect the same from them.
Naw - thanks anyway. It is a private communication. But you didn't answer my question. If you are as "in search of the truth" as you claim to be, have you confronted your "good friend Ian" about the lies?
Please post what you consider "recent documented proof" and allow the readers to determine if it is valid and if it applies rather than simply alleging it exists.
Hhmm. And I believe there is recent, documented proof otherwise. Sorry Jeanette - I don't believe you. Have you jumped on your good friend Ian to set the record straight? You and Cindi are simply behind-the-scenes manipulators. I pity you.
Doesn't change my opinion at all. But since Ian refuses to say what BSDA chats of mine she has seen, maybe you could shed some light on that yet unanswered question, Jeanette...or maybe you could ask Cindi...
And by the way, since you are so busy defending people... Why haven't you spoken up against the blatant untruths Ian allows to be posted on her site? Untruths that YOU KNOW are blatant lies, because I CONFIDED IN YOU!! I think you're a bit selective in who you choose to defend. But I guess when one is so firmly perched atop a fence trying to play both sides they can't be expected to catch everything...
I have no clue what BSDA chats Ian was referring to. I only know that she was telling the truth that I didn't provide her with any. It may even be a question of semantics, for that matter. I can only speak for myself regarding the subject. I will state once more for the record that I have not betrayed your confidences.
Whle I don't know what untruths you are referring to on 3abntalk. I do know that at least one member there has come to erroneous conclusions when reading your court record they posted there. I think letting the court record speak for itself is the best defense. When I read that particular member's conlusions I was rather embarassed for the member. I doubt that many who use common sense can reach the same conclusions that the one member reached by reading the two pages of your court record as posted.
There are many untruths being posted on this site that I have not spoken up against. People will believe what they choose to believe. There is little I can do to alter that.
You are correct. I am a bit selective about who I choose to defend. I defended Alyssa because she does not have a voice here and I happen to know her wishes. I defended Duane because I understand the system he is emerging from and want to encourage him in his resolve. I don't speak out much any more because my perspective is an irritation here, so I prefer to stay mostly mute. There is no fence under my bum. I have always been open about having friends on both sides of the controversy. There are very few people involved in this that I don't value, respect and consider friends.
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And now I see that one of your little friends has taken to attacking Duane at Ian's site. Are you going to rush over there to rebut that Jeanette??
I have posted my clear support of Duane here. I trust he will consider that enough.
I don't rush over here and rebut every attack that members here launch against others, my "little friends" included.
I have refrained from discussion with you because it is pointless. I will return to refraining from discussion with you for the same reason.
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GREAT!! I am all for that!!
I have refrained from discussion with you because it is pointless. I will return to refraining from discussion with you for the same reason.
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I have to admit that I was dismayed to see my friend Ian taking you to task this morning as was done quite a few times by several members over on BSDA. As a victim of abuse myself, I have also experienced those who attempt to put the blame, even if just partially, on the abused.
I am so glad you see it this way. Then you at least understand how Linda and her daughter feel about 3ABN's attempts to put the blame on the abused.
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Play your games and plant your labels without me, Johann.
I really feel sorry for you, Ian. I understand so well why you do not want to replace any of those cards you are using in your games. Don't you fear the use other cards may force you to be more truthful? But why not try?
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Specify the "lies" you are referring to and I will be glad to tell you whether or not I have confronted them. If you are referring to the post where the member drew inaccurate conclusions from the court records in your case, I said the records best spoke for themselves. How many really think "Bond" amount refers to the fine you were charged? Those from here who are registered members on 3abntalk could certainly set the record straight there and here as well. I have chosen not to post often here and I only read occasionally over there.
=========
Not that it will matter to most here, but for those who are interested the posts referred to were edited by the poster as soon as they realized their mistake...
Nor was I referring to Linda's letter to G'ma Nettie. She is not and never has been a source of information for me.
Nor was I attacking Duane, nor is there a thread attacking him on 3abntalk.
Nor is the 3abntalk forum "my forum"
Nor for about the umpteenth dozen time, did I ever get any private chats with snoopy from anyone. "chat" was apparently a bad choice of words. I was referring to her talking to others in public discussion.
anyway, sorry for the interuption, you can all carry on with your schoolyard antics now...
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Has she specifically given her approval or are you proceeding with this against her specific wishes?
I have made it abundantly clear multiple times that I think it is highly unethical for anyone to demand that I not do this or that in defending myself in this lawsuit. I have specifically told you that you have no business dictating such things to me.
Sometimes people who try to prevent evidence from being presented in court or witnesses from testifying in court get in trouble for obstruction of justice.
The lawsuit claimed that we lied when we allegedly said that Danny had inappropriate relationships with other women. Alyssa's letter is relevant to that claim, and it is now a part of court record. It is now part of the public record.
There are a lot of things that I wish were not a part of the public record, but Danny chose this route rather than do the right thing.
Once things are a part of the public record, I don't know on what basis a private citizen like yourself can forbid discussion of that record.
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Nor is the 3abntalk forum "my forum"
Whose forum is it?
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Not that it will matter to most here, but for those who are interested the posts referred to were edited by the poster as soon as they realized their mistake...
WRONG!! YOU edited Steffan's post on December 10!! Why are you so challenged with the truth, Ian?? CAN you tell the truth??
Last edited by admin on Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:19 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: documentary proof
Nor was I referring to Linda's letter to G'ma Nettie. She is not and never has been a source of information for me.
Nor was I attacking Duane, nor is there a thread attacking him on 3abntalk.
Ah, but there WAS a thread!! And nobody said YOU were attacking him, Ian. It was your loose-lipped buddy steffan who you might want to put a muzzle on for legal purposes... It was very wise of you to delete that thead!!
Nor is the 3abntalk forum "my forum"
Then whose is it Ian? Maybe a subpoena would help clear things up...
Nor for about the umpteenth dozen time, did I ever get any private chats with snoopy from anyone. "chat" was apparently a bad choice of words. I was referring to her talking to others in public discussion.
Don't hurt yourself with all that backpedaling...
anyway, sorry for the interuption, you can all carry on with your schoolyard antics now...
And are you back in your own sandbox now?? It looks to me like you need to make a few more edits...
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"Stagger, stagger left, stagger right, roll, roll..."
"Could that be their leether?"
Nor is the 3abntalk forum "my forum"
Whose forum is it?
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Not that it will matter to most here, but for those who are interested the posts referred to were edited by the poster as soon as they realized their mistake...
WRONG!! YOU edited Steffan's post on December 10!! Why are you so challenged with the truth, Ian?? CAN you tell the truth??
Last edited by admin on Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:19 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: documentary proof
We don't use that big red font, and please calm down. Steffan is "admin", Snoopy. If I edit a post it says "Synthian"
Nor was I referring to Linda's letter to G'ma Nettie. She is not and never has been a source of information for me.
Nor was I attacking Duane, nor is there a thread attacking him on 3abntalk.
Ah, but there WAS a thread!! And nobody said YOU were attacking him, Ian. It was your loose-lipped buddy steffan who you might want to put a muzzle on for legal purposes... It was very wise of you to delete that thead!!
Your insults and threats aren't really necessary, but thank you, and yes although not perfect we do try to be accountable in how we moderate and post.
Nor is the 3abntalk forum "my forum"
Then whose is it Ian? Maybe a subpoena would help clear things up...
As I said, the threats aren't necessary. It isn't a secret who owns the forum, and if you had been reading there you'd already know who it is..
Nor for about the umpteenth dozen time, did I ever get any private chats with snoopy from anyone. "chat" was apparently a bad choice of words. I was referring to her talking to others in public discussion.
Don't hurt yourself with all that backpedaling...
anyway, sorry for the interuption, you can all carry on with your schoolyard antics now...
And are you back in your own sandbox now?? It looks to me like you need to make a few more edits...
going back..
..ian
"You can only be young once. But you can always be immature."
-- Dave Barry
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Then why isn't steffan listed as "admin", Ian?? You and Greg are listed, but not steffan. And I am quite calm, although very amused at your lies!!
And as for being accountable??!! :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: I'm thinkin you need to try a LOT harder...!! Maybe you need some help with that??
Not that it will matter to most here, but for those who are interested the posts referred to were edited by the poster as soon as they realized their mistake...
WRONG!! YOU edited Steffan's post on December 10!! Why are you so challenged with the truth, Ian?? CAN you tell the truth??
Last edited by admin on Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:19 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: documentary proof
We don't use that big red font, and please calm down. Steffan is "admin", Snoopy. If I edit a post it says "Synthian"
Nor was I referring to Linda's letter to G'ma Nettie. She is not and never has been a source of information for me.
Nor was I attacking Duane, nor is there a thread attacking him on 3abntalk.
Ah, but there WAS a thread!! And nobody said YOU were attacking him, Ian. It was your loose-lipped buddy steffan who you might want to put a muzzle on for legal purposes... It was very wise of you to delete that thead!!
Your insults and threats aren't really necessary, but thank you, and yes although not perfect we do try to be accountable in how we moderate and post.
Nor is the 3abntalk forum "my forum"
Then whose is it Ian? Maybe a subpoena would help clear things up...
As I said, the threats aren't necessary. It isn't a secret who owns the forum, and if you had been reading there you'd already know who it is..
Nor for about the umpteenth dozen time, did I ever get any private chats with snoopy from anyone. "chat" was apparently a bad choice of words. I was referring to her talking to others in public discussion.
Don't hurt yourself with all that backpedaling...
anyway, sorry for the interuption, you can all carry on with your schoolyard antics now...
And are you back in your own sandbox now?? It looks to me like you need to make a few more edits...
going back..
..ian
"You can only be young once. But you can always be immature."
-- Dave Barry
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"Stagger, stagger left, stagger right, roll, roll..."
"Could that be their leether?"
Nor is the 3abntalk forum "my forum"
Whose forum is it?
LOL!! Haby you always have a perfect way to say things.
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We don't use that big red font, and please calm down. Steffan is "admin", Snoopy. If I edit a post it says "Synthian"
Your insults and threats aren't really necessary, but thank you, and yes although not perfect we do try to be accountable in how we moderate and post.
Ian,
Honestly, you people are DISGUSTING! You claim that you “try to be accountable in how [you] moderate and post.” Well, then, why did this low life, Steffan, take my posts from Advent Talk and other forums, pick what was convenient to him, twist the rest, and then insult me “in absentia”? You make such a big deal of your “Christian behavior” as opposed to those, that is, us, who behave in a rude and unchristian manner. Is this your example of “Christian behavior”?
Eduard
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We don't use that big red font, and please calm down. Steffan is "admin", Snoopy. If I edit a post it says "Synthian"
Your insults and threats aren't really necessary, but thank you, and yes although not perfect we do try to be accountable in how we moderate and post.
Ian,
Honestly, you people are DISGUSTING! You claim that you “try to be accountable in how [you] moderate and post.” Well, then, why did this low life, Steffan, take my posts from Advent Talk and other forums, pick what was convenient to him, twist the rest, and then insult me “in absentia”? You make such a big deal of your “Christian behavior” as opposed to those, that is, us, who behave in a rude and unchristian manner. Is this your example of “Christian behavior”?
Eduard
Edward, "3ABNTalk Christian behavior" could form an oxymoron. For Grandma who likes to consult the dictionary:
An oxymoron (plural oxymorons or, more rarely, oxymora) is a figure of speech that combines two normally contradictory terms. Oxymoron is a loanword from Greek oxy ("sharp" or "pointed") and moros ("dull"). Thus the word oxymoron is itself an oxymoron.
Oxymorons are a proper subset of the expressions called contradictions in terms. What distinguishes oxymorons from other paradoxes and contradictions is that they are used intentionally, for rhetorical effect, and the contradiction is only apparent, as the combination of terms provides a novel expression of some concept, such as "cruel to be kind" or "team of mavericks".
The most common form of oxymoron involves an adjective-noun combination. For example, the following line from Tennyson's Idylls of the King contains two oxymorons:
"And faith unfaithful kept him falsely true"
Oxymorons can also be wooden irons in that they are in violation of the Principle of contradiction which asserts that nothing can be thought if it contains contradictory characteristics, predicates, attributes, or qualities.
I think most of us who have read 3ABNTalk can agree that "Christian behavior" is not an apt discription for what occurs on that forum.
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Has Gerald Duffy sent 3ABNtalk a cease and desist letter, threatening a lawsuit if they didn't turn over the domain name posthaste? A letter that says at the top, "This letter is protected by common law copyright"?
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I wish all you guys could stop playing games and being so disrespectful to each other on here.
This is another reason why I vacated the administration of Advent Talk.
I find this so disgusting.
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Now, I am purely asking this as a rhetorical question, and to express some confusion.
I did notice even at BSDA that both "sides" had absolutely no problem asking and expecting answers to questions then themselves would not answer.
That said......Bob, who owns Adventtalk?
Nor is the 3abntalk forum "my forum"
Whose forum is it?
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I think the owner wants it kept a secret for now.
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Exactly Bob! So why are you asking who owns 3ABNTalk? Don't ask questions you are not willing to answer yourself........they have the same right of annonymity as the owner of Adventtalk. This is the type of common respect that has been missing through this entire sad saga.
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Ian said that steffan is the administrator.
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Exactly Bob! So why are you asking who owns 3ABNTalk? Don't ask questions you are not willing to answer yourself........they have the same right of annonymity as the owner of Adventtalk. This is the type of common respect that has been missing through this entire sad saga.
In this particular case, it hasn't been a secret who owned it, and it was even made a matter of court record.
I would say that people are free to ask whatever questions they want to, with the understanding that they might not get answered.
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I was the owner/administrator of Advent Talk, but not completely in control of it, which is really the main reason why I let it all go to the next person, who is really in the same boat that I was.
After saying this, however, that even though I know who is in control and who is listed as the new owner/administrator, I will presently respect confidentiality and say nothing further.
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Ok...y'all killin' me here'......
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Should someone call 911?
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Should we return to the subject?
As we are approaching Christmas we are reminded of how Joseph "treated" Mary when it appeared like she had committed adultery. Back in 2004 I appealed to Danny to show the same spirit towards Linda as Joseph did towards Mary.
Now that Christmas comes again within a few days, I'd like to ask him if he would not consider at least treating Linda with kindness and stop trying to prevent her when she is asked to do something for the Lord?
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Hush Bob!! LOL!!
Should someone call 911?
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You can ask, Johann, but I believe it is a futile attempt. Especially, in the light in that camp not even acknowledging that they are engaged in such activity. As long as they continue to lie and those who comply with their "wishes" continue to lie, you will get nowhere.
In this instance, we really do have to remember that God is in control, and when we treat each other in this manner we rarely think about the fact that we are mistreating another Child of God, and He really doesn't look favorable on those who do such things. He says, "Vengance is mine'. Linda is His child......He will handle it.
Should we return to the subject?
As we are approaching Christmas we are reminded of how Joseph "treated" Mary when it appeared like she had committed adultery. Back in 2004 I appealed to Danny to show the same spirit towards Linda as Joseph did towards Mary.
Now that Christmas comes again within a few days, I'd like to ask him if he would not consider at least treating Linda with kindness and stop trying to prevent her when she is asked to do something for the Lord?
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You are a very wise princess! :thumbsup:
You can ask, Johann, but I believe it is a futile attempt. Especially, in the light in that camp not even acknowledging that they are engaged in such activity. As long as they continue to lie and those who comply with their "wishes" continue to lie, you will get nowhere.
In this instance, we really do have to remember that God is in control, and when we treat each other in this manner we rarely think about the fact that we are mistreating another Child of God, and He really doesn't look favorable on those who do such things. He says, "Vengance is mine'. Linda is His child......He will handle it.
Should we return to the subject?
As we are approaching Christmas we are reminded of how Joseph "treated" Mary when it appeared like she had committed adultery. Back in 2004 I appealed to Danny to show the same spirit towards Linda as Joseph did towards Mary.
Now that Christmas comes again within a few days, I'd like to ask him if he would not consider at least treating Linda with kindness and stop trying to prevent her when she is asked to do something for the Lord?
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Affidavits do need to be filed and taken under oath with the police or an authorized party, and that is not the end of a case.
( If a notarized statement is all it took, then a notarized statement from a liscensed PI about Linda and her Dr friend would resolve all for you, right?)
..ian
My dearest IAN,
you have hit upon something that I find most endearing and quite exciting...I should be most happy to read an "affidavit" from a licensed PI. Do you suppose you could arrange such a document so we could see what that "licensed" PI would have to say?
I am sure there are many that would drool buckets to get such a statement and test it's contents against the statements of the factually challenged Danny Lee Shelton. And don't forget to throw in those "pictures" to go with the affidavit, after all, a PI without his camera is nothing but an idiot...wouldn't you agree???
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Question for Danny: Did you have a sexual relationship with a 2nd cousin who was still in high school while you were married to Linda & while you were president of 3ABN?
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Now, that is a question I would like to know the answer to! When the answer comes out, I hope Sam will be reading.
If Sam is Samantha Nelson, she will understand how easy it is for a person standing in a position of a Church leader to deceive young girls. She has experience in this area. She should visit with this 2nd cousin and hear her story. Maybe then she will listen.
She has only heard one side of the story; Danny's. Samantha, in your ministry, you must be able to recognize truth and lies. Because of your stand on this subject about Danny and 3ABN, I can not recommend your ministry at all.
Could it be that you have yet again been deceived by a Church leader? Are you are still vulnerable to the same thing you fell for previously? Until you recognize there are three stories to the truth, you can not make a decision as to what really happened until you know all three! You and your husband should pray for more discernment. Too many people know about this story that Crystal is asking about!
Have you heard Brenda Walsh's telephone conversation? I am sure Danny has a copy. Ask him to listen to it. Have you heard all of her stories? Have you watched her grow her story from a lie in the 1st place, to the biggest whopper I have ever heard! I believe she also was deceived by her Church leader! However, she knew better. She knew it was wrong, but did not run! There was an escape, but she chose to lie and get her own network for children no less!
Did you do that? Did you take your sin and decide to make a ministry about it? Are you experiencing personal gain from your sin and the pastors sin? Could your intentions be good, but you have handicapped yourself by working for a ministry that is plagued by the very same problems! Could it be you were persuaded to drop Mable Dunbar and let Danny stack your board with spies to make sure you do as he desires you to do? Mable Dunbar is educated and has much experience with abuse and the abused! Yet, you dumped her for others less adept to dealing with abuse and the abused! I believe that was your greatest error. You have been manipulated all over again!
Surely you will figure it out sooner than later, or your ministry will not succeed! Stop capitalizing on your sin and the sins of others!
Sam, ask Brenda if she has ever had sex, oh, excuse me, or oral sex with Danny. Could it be you are working and connected with a ministry that is worse than the first bad sexual relationship you fell for in the first place? By the way, I do not blame the pastor that had sex with you with all the blame. God never gives us temptations without providing a way out. You agreed to the sex. As harsh as it sounds, it is true. You did not run! You walked straight into it! God always leaves an escape!
This 2nd cousin was duped also! Danny was the Church leader! She was flattered by his attentions and promises. She walked straight into his deceitful web. Yet, she was provided a way of escape, but walked straight into that temptation. You know what it is like, right! Could it be that Danny never figured these people would tell, because they end up telling on themselves? You had courage to tell! Now others are beginning to see the necessity to reveal these things also! If they do not, these sins will continue!
When adultery happens, there are two or more people involved. All are responsible for their decisions! However, the church leader is more at fault because of their full knowledge of what they are doing! I just can't believe you have walked straight into the same situation again. Isn't this sort of like you working for the pastor that you fell for the first time? Think about it!
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:goodpost:
Fran, I couldn't agree more. According to a write-up by someone named "K Shaw", Sammy blames her entire affair on the pastor and accepts little personal responsibility for what happened. Why does that argument work for her and not for alleged victims of TS?
http://bishop-accountability.org/abuse2005archives/009198.html
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I read that before. She was at fault also! It is just hard to admit! The Church leader is an authoritative position and God will require much from them for grooming then consuming their prey! However, we have to be vigilant and not get our heads turned by flattery!
IMO, Danny "grooms" his prey too! He gives to get! It is apparent that is true! Crystal is telling us about a 2nd cousin that got flattered! Her games were videoed and put on Satellite! He took her to games alone. He took her out to eat! Then she got a car! Did she loose it because she finally said no? Maybe it was because she became of age and was no longer needed for his childish fantasies? Crystal will have to tell us. I can tell she is gaining strength more each day to do what has to be done to stop this from continuing year after year!
Did Danny groom Brenda? Was there an agreement, you do this for me and I will do this for you!
I would like to ask Danny if oral sex is sex.
I would like to ask if Danny had sex with Brandy before his divorce from Linda.
I would like to ask if Danny had sex with Brandy before they married and after he was divorced.
In the Seventh-day Adventist church, when this sin happens they just usually move the pastor and give him a new playground! Be it children, men or women that the pastor desires! And the beat goes on!
One thing I want to make clear! This 2nd cousin was under 18! I cannot assess as much guilt on her as I would Danny that is for sure! Children are taught to obey their elders and teachers and pastors. A child will do anything to protect their mothers too! We cannot assess guilt to them as we would adults like Samantha!
I will take a step further, Tommy Shelton has had allegations made against him from males under that age of 18! I believe I can see from his own letters and emails that he is a homosexual man and an alleged, alleged, alleged, alleged,alleged, alleged, alleged (X 23)... pedophile.
His own wife enabled him in his sin even to sacrificing her own son to his selfish desires! She will share in the blame for this! She did not hold him accountable! Neither does Danny! He will be responsible for that too!
And, we can see that Samantha has not acknowledge her part in her sin. She was an adult passed the age of consent! She just screwed up like so many of us! Samantha, once you can acknowledge your part in the sin the sooner you can minister properly and understand others who fall/fell for the same thing. Until then you are still vulnerable to fall again!
Samantha, I believe it is imperative that you hear the 2nd cousins story and see it it is true! If it is true, should Danny Shelton be a church leader on national TV around all the children there with Brenda? Wouldn't that make Danny a pedophile also? I believe it does. Do you consider this a danger to the children at 3ABN, but even more so for his and Brandy's child?
Another thing interesting that I am seeing today. Almost 100% of the kids are girls Oops, there is a great, great male pianist! Maybe he was thrown in for Tommy. Tommy loves those that are music minded like him! Is that mean? Yes, it is, but it is time for someone to get disgusted besides me, Bob, Gailon, Snoopy, Artiste, Johann, Emma and many others.
Maybe you could talk to His grown daughter and ask her about her sleeping with Danny even after he married Linda? She was well under age! Maybe you can share with us your findings? Think about it!
And then lastly, should Brenda be allowed to be with our children? I don't think so
She was on TV today. She looks anorexic and her makeup is done like Tammy Faye!
Danny can't loose this fight! He supports his whole family. The credits just rolled. There were a fistful of Shelton's, Firestone, Mundall's, and Chances!
Danny is a proud grandfather for sure! I am too! 3ABN is supporting them all. His whole family would go broke should he loose this battle!
This one surprised me! The credits for Kid's Time rolled and low and behold, Danny Produced it and right there with equal billing with Brenda Walsh was Melody Firestone! My chin dropped, but she needs money to raise all those kids of hers and his and his. If I had a TV show, my kids and grand kids would be on it for sure! If my daughter needed a job, I would give her one because it would be my business!
3ABN is not Danny Shelton's! It is a 501 (c) 3! It is not a personal business! Oops! However, there is a problem. The state of IL says it is not a 501 (c) 3, but a personal family business! In my opinion, I believe that their status as a 501 (c) 3 will be removed! As it should be. He and his family have been reaping all of the financial rewards. I also believe he should be stripped of all rights to write trust funds, along with the ability allowing them to receive financial donations and give tax deductible receipts!
If people want to donate and not receive a tax deductible receipts, more power to them. They should also be stripped of the right to use the name Seventh-day Adventist on the air. The GC should ask all Independent ministries to no longer use 3ABN as an avenue to spread evil! This has continued long enough! There is enough published evidence to see what is truth.
For those that choose to not believe, I agree to disagree with your opinion. I expect you agree to disagree with me and mine also. Each one must take it upon themselves to search to show themselves approved. In the beginning, I felt I could be wrong. But so much kept coming up that I had to admit to myself that 3ABN is corrupt as well as Danny Shelton and his family!
Edited to remove inappropriate content.
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I think most who read your post would agree, that you have a very sick and demented mind. What you have said about the shelton children and grandchildren is inexcusable. Think about what you have done ****** in the sickening accusation that you are making. You couldn't be anymore wrong, but, not the point. We are used to that. The point is whether you would be wrong or right, what have you done ****** by spreading such horrible gossip on the internet? ****** . No matter what you think someone did or didn't do you have no right to bring innocent children into the limelight just to satisfy your sick obsession with this whole topic.
Suffer the little children to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of heaven.
EDITED to remove inappropriate content.
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I think you for one need to watch the Shelton Holiday special tomorrow at 3pm central time and see if you come away still believing in what you are doing here. Look at the faces of each one of the children and the love that is shown one to another and ask yourself how you could say such terrible things.
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That alone would be the most devastating thing of the whole facts if you woke up to these facts and acknowledged you were in the horror of being in that situation. How can anyone survive from this? I imagine a sick feeling for the rest of your life but how thankful she must be that God took her out and exposed this horror. So what is up with the rest of cronies that are already in the grave if you know the word there?? The only way out of ___ is to wash clean and not cover these horrific scenes. IF they don't, intodays laws they are held as ac complists. So how does God look at this? The same too or as the Sympathizers.
Well, it just came to me how they do it! They use God's promises against God as he promises to forgive all sins. They just don't understand that they use "presumption". and their sins are intentional to their inside beastly acts destroying weaker lives as they devour. am I upset and I hope this Sam and anyone that speaks against those trying to get this stopped can ____ before they make anymore utterance on here.
Also clear off the subject trying to calm down and thought I would interject something here about previous post somewhere addressed to you since maybe you might see the question above.
On "Essai" reference I might add for anyones interest that in Lev. in those days they seemed to have similar chronics and it was given to the people then, with all the molds, within their living, that there was something that they were told to do to counteract or get rid of and that was the use of Hyssop.I had been looking into that when I discovered it is now on market in todays terms. It is only gotten in the Mediterranean and it grows straight out of the rock just like in Biblical reference. Read the book they have on it and the research states that when used it kills affected cells quickly. The name that is used to day is Oil of Oregano. It is Hyssop. It is not the cooking kind. It comes in oil to put under tongue if you can stand it or capsules. The body becomes fungus infested, from medicines, antibiotics and etc. clear to the brain into alz. and from the habits and foods we sometimes eat. I usually do not get into too much of this but common sense just got my interest when I knew the Lev. laws of health. I believe that and it made me take a look at this. They seem to have the strongest kind at a place called Country Corners phone 419 529 5505. The other is advertised as the most famous on TV a while back. The book that goes with it shows research. The other things that relates to my interest is that EGW states that in healthy blood, disease is hard to stay. And then I remember she stated that blood, bone, and flesh is always possible to heal under the right circumstances. These are just some thoughts for anyone to think and comment if they like. I like to hear and keep open mind to connections that come from Biblical view in Lev.
EDITED to remove inappropriate content.
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This whole sordid affair is one soap opera I can't make myself not go back to and see what is happening, but please leave the children and their names out of it. They are the innocent ones. I am just glad that we aren't the judge and jury that counts in the end. I can't support 3ABN anymore. I am glad that we have the HOPE and LLBN channels to give us a change when I can't stand watching the hypocrisy on 3ABN. God has used 3ABN to bring many to Christ, but maybe its usefulness is finished and there are other means God will use to finish His work.
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Go back and re-read what I said! It was NOT DUROGATORY against any child! It is common knowledge that Melody married Derrell Mundall twice! Even the kids know that is true.
The Linda I was speaking about was the Linda on Tiny Tots! This Linda is Brenda Walsh and Cinda's sister. Not Linda Sue Shelton.
I did not fault Danny for having his family on TV! I even stated that if I owned a TV Network, I would have as much of my family on as I wanted on the air!. I said Danny enjoyed his grandchildren the same as I do! I said nothing bad about the children! You have falsely accused me of what I did not say! I only made true statements about the programs! I believe Melody and Derrell have beautiful children! The program makes great home movies!
I did ask a lot of questions. That is not accusing anyone of anything! I guess you missed my main comments. I see you have already been duped and have fallen for the same garbage as before! Yes, you need discernment quick. Just remember, you only heard one side of the story! Be fair and open your mind to more sides of the story!
Please tell me what I said that was so horrible against the children (as in minors)! I thought I made it clear that I fear for minors around the elder Shelton's, and with good reason! That is not speaking ill of the children! Never!
I do not believe I need to sit to watch and hear from that family! There are too many facts out there to know that the Shelton family is a dangerous family! I do not intend to watch Tommy Shelton around his family because I know what his own family means to Tommy! Who knows they may try to adopt another little boy for Tommy! Danny married to already born females! Were there any 2nd cousins on the show? You need to do a genealogy of the Shelton family. It could get confusing when the Family Tree program pops up and says that this is not a proper relationship! In fact, the program doesn't allow some relationships to be entered!
I will pass on watching that program. It would be hypocrisy! Program or no program, I am of the same opinion! I will go back to what you call my sick obsession, and you go on back to your sick obsession with another supposed church leader that dupes his prey! Will you be his next prey? You could also use some reading lessons.
Posted on: Yesterday at 10:31:21 PMPosted by: Sam
...The point is whether you would be wrong or right, what have you done to this innocent child by spreading such horrible gossip on the Internet? ...
Please tell me what I said bad about this innocent child? I think he is really cute! You are horrible for saying such a thing! I did not say anything against him at all! I need an apology!
I think you for one need to watch the Shelton Holiday special tomorrow at 3pm central time and see if you come away still believing in what you are doing here. Look at the faces of each one of the children and the love that is shown one to another and ask yourself how you could say such terrible things.
EDITED to remove inappropriate content.
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Posted by Fran yesterday ... The credits just rolled. There were a fistful of Shelton's, Firestone, Mundall's, and Chances!
Danny is a proud grandfather for sure! I am too! 3ABN is supporting them all. His whole family would go broke should he loose this battle!
This one surprised me! The credits for Kid's Time rolled and low and behold, Danny Produced it and right there with equal billing with Brenda Walsh was Melody Firestone! My chin dropped, but she needs money to raise all those kids of hers and his and his. If I had a TV show, my kids and grand kids would be on it for sure! If my daughter needed a job, I would give her one because it would be my business!...
This is what I wrote while watching the Tiny Tots program yesterday! I said nothing bad about any child! The child was on the program! I did not tell anything the world was not watching on TV! I have children that have been married more than once! What is that against a child? It is a fact that children of two parents are 1/2 of each parent! That is a fact! It is Danny that refuses to give Derrell credit that these children are his too! In fact he has introduced them on TV as Firestone's! They have zero Firestone blood in them! Danny is the one to hurt Derrell by his actions.
Now to get the bare facts. Danny was born a Shelton, but he is only1/2 Goldie and 1/2 Shelton even though he bears that name! Melody was born. She was 1/2 Danny's and 1/2 Kay's. That makes her only 1/2 of a Shelton (some would say 1/4). Melody and Derrell had children. They are only 1/2 Shelton and 1/2 Mundall. (Some would say 1/8) I keep praying for the line to become so diluted that the stigma will leave them as they get to adulthood!
This whole sordid affair is one soap opera I can't make myself not go back to and see what is happening, but please leave the children and their names out of it. They are the innocent ones. I am just glad that we aren't the judge and jury that counts in the end. I can't support 3ABN anymore. I am glad that we have the HOPE and LLBN channels to give us a change when I can't stand watching the hypocrisy on 3ABN. God has used 3ABN to bring many to Christ, but maybe its usefulness is finished and there are other means God will use to finish His work.
EDITED to remove inappropriate content from quoted post.
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Nevertheless, it is ultimately damaging the kids to speak of them in the context of this mess. There is no room for them to be discussed anywhere in the vicinity of the discussions that take place here. Manure rubs off very easy.
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I agree, Habanero, whatever the issues at 3ABN the children are innocent bystanders and should be allowed to grow up in peace.
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ADMIN HAT ON
Several of the recent posts in this thread have been edited to remove specific references to innocent children who are caught in the middle of this mess by no fault of their own. I don't believe the comments were made with the intent to harm. Lets just try to agree that the precious kids are off limits. Thanks!
ADMIN HAT OFF
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Thank you for the edit Snoopy.
Emma, you are right, in one way. I went to edit my post, but couldn't so I posted what I was talking about. Then I read Habanero's earlier post and apologized to him in a PM.
However, I have one thing to say! We are here talking about horrid things that have happened to - "CHILDREN" - involved with 3 Shelton adults! Children are the ones in danger from sexually perverted adults! Children are involved in these allegations! Do we just close our eyes so it will go away? All is better if we just look the other way! Folks, that is not going to happen! It may stop for a while, but hold on to your hat, if they do not allow Christ to change every evil characteristic, the events will occur again and again!
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Fran, I think we all want to avoid comments that could damage specific children.
That is a different matter to discussing behaviour of certain adults which could cause harm to any children.
I recognise that you were not trying to hurt any of those mentioned.
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In this member's opinion, when a member makes posts involving children and tarnishing their reputations with uninfomed, accusatory comments, then that calls for revoking a membership.
More information could be forthcoming if this could be accomplished...
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Crystal, you are bringing up things that already have been dealt with.
We agreed the children should not be named, and their names were removed. I do not think the poster made any comments accusing any children of inappropriate behaviour.
What you choose to do, do - if you do not want to make any further information available unless certain conditions are met, that is up to you.
Personally I am not very impressed at the threat of blackmail in any form. Maybe that is just me.
(And please be aware that I have absolutely no axe to grind in the whole 3ABN saga. I have no first hand knowledge and I am certainly not sitting here
with my tongue hanging out for more salacious tidbits.)
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Ok, I know I am late, but I was reading, posts here at AT, as I do from time to time.........Ian, how do you know all this stuff.......if you are not WT, TS, or anybody else directly involved in this? Let me add that I know you aren't any of those people., and I am not challenging your facts Just asking how do you know, mostly out of curiosity?
Nope. Not only Walt Thompson, but NO ONE from 3ABN has ever contacted me to get my side of the story. The only contact with me ever attempted was two calls from a member of the Shelton family when it became apparent I was going to go public. I didn't answer either call.
But Duane, how can people contact you when you won't answer the phone? and how can this be? No one from 3abn contacted you? But you emaile Tommy Shelton yourself, didn't you? and he contacted you back, and again apologized and explained why you two couldn't be alone together anymore, and offered to help you in any way other than that, along with his wife and you wrote him back and said there was nothing to apologize for, and he had never hurt you and saying you didn't need help nor counseling, as he had needed and undergone, right?
So, with the letters you wrote how is it possible they could they not already have your side of the story?
???
I don't get it.
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It's interesting, and kind of disgusting how these young women in their 20's & 30's get matched up and married to these old men in their late fifties & sixties... I mean, are they just desperate & needful of funds? What young lady would want an old man with hair implants, dyed hair & scalp, loose & wrinkly skin and old, well... goes without saying. ? What do these old guys want to do? Evangelize them?
Abraham did that & we're still paying the price.
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It's going on three years since a physician went public with his determination that Danny is a psychopath. And that was more than two years after Danny admitted that the physician had determined that.
So why not?
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...and who is the physician who thinks this?
Arild - Linda's boyfriend.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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I believe he has real live credentials. What do you have?
...and who is the physician who thinks this?
Arild - Linda's boyfriend.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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Junebug,
This type of a post from you is a disappointment to me, as I thought you were better than that.
...and who is the physician who thinks this?
Arild - Linda's boyfriend.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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I think she is the opposition junebug. There are several here. Have to watch the names really close or they will fool you by doing this too!
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Ask Danny if he remembers a young Brazilian girl named 'Betsy'?
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Yes, Danny's been asked to get a paternity test.
What I wonder is if he has ever been asked to have a psychological evaluation done. Too many have felt he is a psychopath. It would clear the air a bit it he had a proper evaluation done and made a full disclosure of the procedure of the evaluation and its results.
Even better, it would be wise of him to ensure that the evaluator was not biased toward him in any way.
Do you have any idea how unprofessional this makes you sound? No competent evaluator would agree to do an examination in this situation.
Bob, Bob.....I know it's hard to get your story straight coming from Linda and Daryl but let's try shall we?
1. Danny was not ask to take a paternity test. Danny volunteered to do so after someone (who has been speaking closely with Linda) made an unfounded accusation. The whole accusation was so ridiculous that DS was thrilled to suggest DNA testing as this is one of the more simple things that he can prove quick and fast. He and the "accuser" have agreed to certain stipulations that will be enforced. The accuser is supposedly making the arrangements for testing and should this person back out of the agreement, I will be happy to share their identity and the proof that it was Danny's suggestion...not anyone else's.
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Thanks for the clarification, Sam, though it doesn't seem to make much difference.
Plus, if the source of your info is Danny, remember, Danny is the one who said that he could prove that Linda's Toyota Sequoia is titled in his name too, when the title as faxed from the lending bank never had Danny's name on it. And rather than explain the discrepancy when I asked him about it, or rather than apologizing for getting it wrong, Danny did the unspeakable, suing me for raising the question.
Yes, Danny had the nerve of putting that issue into the lawsuit after refusing to explain the matter. The gall! At his age you would think he would be more mature than that.
Now you mention stipulations. What stipulations? Is Danny still playing his little games?
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Thanks for the clarification, Sam, though it doesn't seem to make much difference.
Plus, if the source of your info is Danny, remember, Danny is the one who said that he could prove that Linda's Toyota Sequoia is titled in his name too, when the title as faxed from the lending bank never had Danny's name on it. And rather than explain the discrepancy when I asked him about it, or rather than apologizing for getting it wrong, Danny did the unspeakable, suing me for raising the question.
Yes, Danny had the nerve of putting that issue into the lawsuit after refusing to explain the matter. The gall! At his age you would think he would be more mature than that.
Now you mention stipulations. What stipulations? Is Danny still playing his little games?
Oh Bob...it makes a difference or you wouldn't have phrased it the way you did. Remember Bob if your info came from Linda or Daryl M. they have "mislead" you (and that's putting it kindly) on many other issues. Obviously they mislead you on this one since you stated "Danny was asked to take a DNA test". That was wrong. Did they tell it to you like that or was that your own twist on words?
Danny sued you for a raising a question? Hilarious Bob. Your twists quit being twists long ago and are blatant lies.
Twisting/lying again Bob on your last question? I said that Danny agreed to meet the accuser's stipulations. Somehow you tried to turn that around that Danny was making the stipulations. So funny it's sad. Not working Bob.
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Ask Danny if he remembers a young Brazilian girl named 'Betsy'?
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Sam,
He and the "accuser" have agreed to certain stipulations that will be enforced.
Now you say,
Twisting/lying again Bob on your last question? I said that Danny agreed to meet the accuser's stipulations. Somehow you tried to turn that around that Danny was making the stipulations. So funny it's sad. Not working Bob.
Anyone who can read can plainly see that you never said the accuser was the one who made the stipulations.
Danny sued you for a raising a question? Hilarious Bob.
You've got one sick sense of humor, then. There is nothing funny about Danny suing me over the question of his name being on the title of Linda's Toyota Sequoia when Danny refused to answer my questions about that. It's horrendously sad and sick of Danny to do that. Not funny in the least.
You may want to twist what I just wrote, but the facts are the facts. I raised the question and Danny sued me over it without bothering to make any attempt at an explanation for the discrepancy.
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Robert,
Statutorily, I am wondering if you can show the reading public when a manuscript, or even the concept of one, becomes a book, thereby becoming an element to be included in a divorce settlement? Can you provide any enacted law, or even case law, supporting your position? My guess is, "No," but maybe you can find something to manipulate to your position. I will await proper citation so that your support can effectively be analyzed - or do you dare an honest analysis of your position? I don't want your commentary, as it won't be worth the cyber paper it would appear on, all that is necessary are the citations you might use to support your position. I am guessing you can't provide anything and that instead you will turn this around and demand I answer a question - modus operandi . . . your position is flimsy at best and no existent at worst. Don't waste your time asking a question - instead, but some time and effort into manning up and answering one for a change.
You love to couch your accusations as questions, but case law in Mass. would sink your ship when you rose before the judge or jury and claimed, "I only asked a question." . . . hope you can bail the boat faster than the legal precedence flooding in.
- anyman
Sam,
He and the "accuser" have agreed to certain stipulations that will be enforced.
Now you say,
Twisting/lying again Bob on your last question? I said that Danny agreed to meet the accuser's stipulations. Somehow you tried to turn that around that Danny was making the stipulations. So funny it's sad. Not working Bob.
Anyone who can read can plainly see that you never said the accuser was the one who made the stipulations.
Danny sued you for a raising a question? Hilarious Bob.
You've got one sick sense of humor, then. There is nothing funny about Danny suing me over the question of his name being on the title of Linda's Toyota Sequoia when Danny refused to answer my questions about that. It's horrendously sad and sick of Danny to do that. Not funny in the least.
You may want to twist what I just wrote, but the facts are the facts. I raised the question and Danny sued me over it without bothering to make any attempt at an explanation for the discrepancy.
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anyman,
See what you can find, and report back. But probably it would be better to put it on the other thread which is on that topic.
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Par for the course . . . you have nothing, so you play verbal games. You lose. No, I don't win, as I wasn't trying to . . . but you lose. Nothing to support your point, hiding behind the apron strings of those few who will come to your aide and attempt to hide this exchange . . . but you, Robert, are a naked emperor . . .
We all will await your report . . . we will give you time, you don't have to answer immediately, do your research . . . we will wait to see if you have anything, anything at all, that substantiates your position.
In the mean time, your wife and daughter should be your focus.
- anyman
anyman,
See what you can find, and report back. But probably it would be better to put it on the other thread which is on that topic.
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Don't be lazy. See what you can come up with.
If you don't even try, it suggests that you already know the answer, and don't want to say.
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Hey, anyman, take a look at http://www.state.il.us/court/opinions/AppellateCourt/2003/5thDistrict/April/Wp/5010869.doc (http://www.state.il.us/court/opinions/AppellateCourt/2003/5thDistrict/April/Wp/5010869.doc).
Justice Hopkins wrote, "Future income is a marital asset where the income derives from efforts or products produced during the marriage."
That's kind of interesting, wouldn't you say?
But really, consider the fact that that 3ABN World issue went missing. If Danny didn't think Antichrist Agenda was marital property, the issue wouldn't be missing, would it be?
Remember, our sources said that Danny wanted Dwight to help him hide his royalties from Linda. No need to do that if Danny didn't think that the book was part hers.
I wonder if Riva told Danny the book was part hers.
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Your games indict you.
You assume the "try" has not already taken place leading to the questions - this is your Achilles heel.
You indict yourself . . . sad situation.
- anyman
Don't be lazy. See what you can come up with.
If you don't even try, it suggests that you already know the answer, and don't want to say.
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SAM,
You sure you want to say it's the "ACCUSERS" "STIPULATIONS"???
Thanks for the clarification, Sam, though it doesn't seem to make much difference.
Plus, if the source of your info is Danny, remember, Danny is the one who said that he could prove that Linda's Toyota Sequoia is titled in his name too, when the title as faxed from the lending bank never had Danny's name on it. And rather than explain the discrepancy when I asked him about it, or rather than apologizing for getting it wrong, Danny did the unspeakable, suing me for raising the question.
Yes, Danny had the nerve of putting that issue into the lawsuit after refusing to explain the matter. The gall! At his age you would think he would be more mature than that.
Now you mention stipulations. What stipulations? Is Danny still playing his little games?
Oh Bob...it makes a difference or you wouldn't have phrased it the way you did. Remember Bob if your info came from Linda or Daryl M. they have "mislead" you (and that's putting it kindly) on many other issues. Obviously they mislead you on this one since you stated "Danny was asked to take a DNA test". That was wrong. Did they tell it to you like that or was that your own twist on words?
Danny sued you for a raising a question? Hilarious Bob. Your twists quit being twists long ago and are blatant lies.
Twisting/lying again Bob on your last question? I said that Danny agreed to meet the accuser's stipulations. Somehow you tried to turn that around that Danny was making the stipulations. So funny it's sad. Not working Bob.
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Robert, you can't possibly want to use this as a citation for your position! Did you read any further than the line you quoted? Let me help:
Growing Crops
Alisha argues that the trial court erred in failing to award to either party 1,175 acres of the 2001 growing crops. Alisha calculates the crops at a net value, after expenses, of $124,394.23, and Alisha requests this court to award her half of that value. We decline to do so.
Future income is a marital asset where the income derives from efforts or products produced during the marriage. In re Marriage of Heinze, 257 Ill. App. 3d 782, 785 (1994). Crops grown even on nonmarital property can be considered in determining marital income and marital property. In re Marriage of Mohr, 260 Ill. App. 3d 98, 103 (1994). Farm income derives from the sale of crops, and the labor may precede the income by many months. In re Marriage of Mohr, 260 Ill. App. 3d at 104. In farming, the income-the yield and the price-is uncertain and beyond control. In re Marriage of Mohr, 260 Ill. App. 3d at 104.
The future income from the growing crops derived from Matthew's efforts during the marriage is marital property. In its judgment, the trial court did not allocate the future income of the growing crops. However, the trial court allocated the considerable farming debt to Matthew, including the debt incurred to produce the crops, and Matthew will incur the debt to harvest the crops.
The value of the growing crops is speculative, as is the farming business. Alisha values the crops at $124,394.23 and argues that awarding the entire future income from the growing crops to Matthew results in a greatly disproportionate award. However, Alisha's purported value ignores the previous year's crop income of $13,122 and is therefore untenable. Further, even if Alisha's purported value was accepted and added entirely to Matthew's distribution award in the judgment, Matthew's net income after distribution remains in the negative while Alisha's remains in the positive. After Matthew is awarded the entirety of the 2001 growing crop, the distribution remains equitable in nature and in just proportions. See 750 ILCS 5/503(d) (West 2000). Pursuant to our powers under Supreme Court Rule 366(a) (155 Ill. 2d R. 366(a)), we modify the trial court's order and award the future income from the 2001 growing crops to Matthew. See In re Marriage of Smith, 122 Ill. App. 3d 213, 217 (1984) (farm debts and assets should remain in one person).
Emphasis added.
Throughout the entire decision Alisha's claims are ruled against. Here are some of the courts comments in regards to her arguments:
- "The trial court denied Alisha's motion, . . ."
- "During the hearing, the trial court rejected as unconvincing Alisha's evidence concerning the equipment and values listed on the financial statements"
- "The court held that the 120 billable hours of Alisha's counsel was unreasonable given the nature of the proceedings and the situation of the parties, and it denied Alisha's request for attorney's fees."
- "Alisha argues that the trial court abused its discretion because its division of marital assets was unjust . . . We disagree."
- A trial court's distribution of marital assets should not be reveresed absent an abuse of the trial court's discretion . . . In re: Marriage of Schmidt, 242 Ill. App. 3d at 966."
- "Just proportions does not mean equal amounts, and the trial court is not obligated to make specific findings as the reasons for its award. In re: Marriage of Schmidt 242 Ill. App. 3d at 966."
- "Even if we were to accept Alisha's asserted personal debts of $18,600, $3,600 of which Alisha claimed as the use of her father's truck, the trial court did not abuse its discretion in distributing the marital property, and Alisha's arguments are unavailing. The trial court's award was in "just proportions." See 750 ILCS 5/503(d) (West 2000)."
- Alisha asserts that the trial court abused its discretion in awarding child support because it failed to account for Matthew's parent's assistance, Matthew's standard of living, and Matthew's earning potential. We disagree."
Shall we continue? The appeals court affirmed the lower courts decision with modification - that modification being the issue of Alisha's arguments in regards to pre-marital assets, as emphasized above. So, the modification of the case went against the appellant (Alisha) and she was in a worse position than when she appealed. This was an appellate decision which means it was heard by a three judge panel and they all concurred on the decision - no dissent!
So isolating the quote out of context, Robert, only serves to prove the claims against you - that your use of information is disingenuous, dishonest, and misleading.
It's probably a good thing you are not Linda's attorney, pro se other other wise, as this case would be a death kneel against your case. Using this case to establish grounds that Linda has no claim to the book would be a far better application of this opinion.
Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the book in question was written before the divorce was final - here is where you aren't even skating on ice and why you won't cite any statutory law to support the claim that Linda "gets some" because there is none. Linda is not entitled to the profits from any manuscript in existence - on paper or in Danny's head - before the divorce. The book was published post divorce, check out the word "published" and see how that works for you. Do your homework.
- anyman
Hey, anyman, take a look at http://www.state.il.us/court/opinions/AppellateCourt/2003/5thDistrict/April/Wp/5010869.doc (http://www.state.il.us/court/opinions/AppellateCourt/2003/5thDistrict/April/Wp/5010869.doc).
Justice Hopkins wrote, "Future income is a marital asset where the income derives from efforts or products produced during the marriage."
That's kind of interesting, wouldn't you say?
But really, consider the fact that that 3ABN World issue went missing. If Danny didn't think Antichrist Agenda was marital property, the issue wouldn't be missing, would it be?
Remember, our sources said that Danny wanted Dwight to help him hide his royalties from Linda. No need to do that if Danny didn't think that the book was part hers.
I wonder if Riva told Danny the book was part hers.
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anyman,
Maybe you should try law school.
None of your comments address what I quoted. Let's try again:
"Future income is a marital asset where the income derives from efforts or products produced during the marriage."
http://www.state.il.us/court/opinions/AppellateCourt/2003/5thDistrict/April/Wp/5010869.doc (http://www.state.il.us/court/opinions/AppellateCourt/2003/5thDistrict/April/Wp/5010869.doc)
Now are you saying that the judge got it wrong, and that future income isn't a marital asset where the income derives from efforts or products produced during the marriage? And if that is what you are saying, can you back up your position with statutes or case law?
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Definition:
moot: Of no practical importance; irrelevant
Your quote = out of context (at the least, lacking context)
The context of the case (which after all is the reason for citing case law) - against the idea that you are attempting to ascribe to your cherry-picked quote (which comes from In re: Marriage of Heinze, 257 Ill. App. 3d 781, 785 (1994)). In the legal venue you can not do as you have done without recriminations from the court - no judge would take you seriously.
Therefore, your argument, this discussion, has been rendered moot. Move on.
Here, I'll indulge you . . . the judge(s) got it right, "[w]e modify the trial court's order and award the future income from the 2001 growing crops to Matthew." Therefore they decided exactly the opposite of what you intimate they would in the issue over the book in question. You would lose.
- anyman
anyman,
Maybe you should try law school.
None of your comments address what I quoted. Let's try again:
"Future income is a marital asset where the income derives from efforts or products produced during the marriage."
http://www.state.il.us/court/opinions/AppellateCourt/2003/5thDistrict/April/Wp/5010869.doc (http://www.state.il.us/court/opinions/AppellateCourt/2003/5thDistrict/April/Wp/5010869.doc)
Now are you saying that the judge got it wrong, and that future income isn't a marital asset where the income derives from efforts or products produced during the marriage? And if that is what you are saying, can you back up your position with statutes or case law?
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anyman, you're not making a bit of sense. Why is that? Are you intentionally trying to distract and deceive, or do you really believe what you are saying?
You quoted the following: "In its judgment, the trial court did not allocate the future income of the growing crops."
You also quoted the following: "However, the trial court allocated the considerable farming debt to Matthew, including the debt incurred to produce the crops, and Matthew will incur the debt to harvest the crops."
How then did the court's decision conflict with the earlier statement? "Future income is a marital asset where the income derives from efforts or products produced during the marriage."
Or are you suggesting that the future income from the growing crops was a non-marital asset, and the court modified the judgment in order to allocate a non-marital asset to Matthew?
Please explain your earlier statement: "So, the modification of the case went against the appellant (Alisha) and she was in a worse position than when she appealed." How exactly was she worse off? Was the future income under her control before her appeal, but wasn't after her appeal?
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It appears as if the problem is, you do not want to accept the ramifications of the courts opinion as written, and instead you choose to misuse it in a manner that suits your needs. You can not do that, well you can, but you will lose every time. For the record, I quoted the entire section from the court’s opinion that addressed the 2001 crop issue – I edited out nothing, leaving it in context.
Let me break this down to a bulleted lists for you, the court cites case law that relates to the issue by citing:
In re Marriage of Heinze, 257 Ill. App. 3d 782, 785 (1994)
Future income is a marital asset where the income derives from efforts or products produced during the marriage.
In re Marriage of Mohr, 260 Ill. App. 3d 98, 103 (1994)
- Crops grown even on nonmarital property can be considered in determining marital income and marital property.
- Farm income derives from the sale of crops, and the labor may precede the income by many months.
- In farming, the income-the yield and the price-is uncertain and beyond control.
Remember this is the appellate court and they are reviewing the decision of the trial court based on claims from Alisha that the lower court erred in some of its decisions. One of those claims is that the court erred in its decisions about the, as yet realized income from the 2001 crops. We also know from the opinion that the appeals court is of the opinion that Alisha over valued the crop and held no interest in it.
You ask, “How then did the court's decision conflict with the earlier statement? ‘Future income is a marital asset where the income derives from efforts or products produced during the marriage.’”
I did not say there was a conflict. Have you read In re Marriage of Heinze, 257 Ill. App. 3d 782, 785 (1994)? In this case the issue were the royalties from four books written by the wife during the marriage. The books had been written, published, and sales begun (meaning royalties were gained) during the marriage and thus future royalties were easily established. You have no proof that the book you hold in question was anything more than an idea during the marriage. Even the document mentioning it merely states there will be a book in the future dealing with the Sabbath and it will be written by Danny and Shelly. For all intents and purposes the book could merely have been a comment at that time, with not one word put to page. In Heinze, the books were written, contracts signed, and books on the shelf. The cases cited in Heinze have similar fact scenarios to Heinze, and are not similar to the Shelton situation.
In the Heinze decision, the court cites Yannas v. Frondistou-Yannas, 395 Mass. 704, 481 N.E.2d 1153, 1160. The courts opinion reads in relevant part:
In Yannas v. Frondistou-Yannas (1985), 395 Mass. 704, 481 N.E.2d 1153, 1160,
the court found that the trial court was warranted in failing to place a value on the
husband's patents on artificial skin designed for the treatment of severe burn
victims. The Yannas court determined that the trial court could have properly
concluded that the value of the future income from this source was too speculative
to consider. Yannas, 395 Mass. 704, 481 N.E.2d at 1160.
Here, we conclude that, unlike the situation in Yannas, the trial court erred when it concluded that the petitioner's future book royalties were too speculative and unproven so that valuation was impossible. In the instant case, the petitioner received substantial book royalties during the marriage from 1984 up to the time of trial. As a result of the income received during the marriage, we do not believe the prospect of future book royalties is either unproven or speculative. Accordingly, we conclude that the future book royalties should have been classified as marital property and allocated between the parties.
The Yannas case has relevance to In re: Marriage of Bowlby and the Shelton’s case. The price of the crops was a speculative element, and therefore the trial court did not consider it in the marital settlement. The appellate court essentially affirmed this thinking, in Bowlby, then went a step further arguing that because Matthew was given all the debt incurred in the raising and harvesting of the crop, he should reasonably receive the income generated by that crop. The court then modified the trial courts decision and gave Matthew the income from the crop. An interesting side note: In this case, Bowlby, there is an ex-wife who, by the courts admission, was left in a financially positive reality by the marital settlement, while the husband was left with a negative one. Yet, she appealed the court’s decision, demanding more.
The Heinze court in its opinion cited Dunn v. Dunn, (Utah Ct. App. 1990), 802 P.2d 1314, 1319, as it discussed the future book royalties in question. In Dunn it was stated that future royalties, from the invention and manufacture of a surgical instrument during the marriage, was indeed marital property. In both Dunn and Heinze what is being dealt with is a known quantity. In the case of Heinze, there were already contracts regulating the four books – before – the disillusionment of the marriage. The Heinze court goes back to Dunn as it discusses the allocation of future royalties:
“In making this allocation, we find the case of Dunn v. Dunn instructive. The court in Dunn noted that the husband spent time traveling to demonstrate the surgical instrument he invented. The court held that his wife was entitled to one-half of the royalties received from the invention, less an appropriate deduction for the time her husband spent generating the royalty income. Dunn, 802 P.2d at 1319.
We also note that section 503 of the Act (Ill. Rev. Stat. 1991, ch. 40, par. 503) does not require an equal distribution of marital property. ( In re Marriage of Aschwanden (1980), 82 Ill. 2d 31, 37, 411 N.E.2d 238, 241, 44 Ill. Dec. 269.) Rather, this section provides that marital property should be divided in "just proportions." Aschwanden, 82 Ill. 2d at 37, 411 N.E.2d at 241.
(B)ased upon the reasoning in Dunn, we find that the petitioner's efforts entitle her to a larger share of the royalties.
We note the respondent conceded in his reply brief that the petitioner's efforts could be considered by this court in dividing the book royalties. Respondent suggested a 60% to 40% division of the royalties. We find the respondent's proposed division would not give the petitioner an adequate share of the royalties based upon her time-consuming and continuing efforts to promote sales of the four books. We conclude that a 75% to 25% division is not a great departure from the division proposed by the respondent and would be more appropriate based upon the unusual facts of this case.
[A]ccordingly, we conclude that it would be inequitable to require the petitioner to bear these tax consequences without imposing an offset upon the respondent's award of 25% of the book royalties. Consequently, the computation of the respondent's 25% of the book royalties shall be made in the following manner: (1) the petitioner shall compute the amount of each royalty payment from Lingui which is attributable to sales of the four books written during the marriage (gross royalties); (2) the petitioner shall determine her liability for federal and state income taxes on the gross royalties based upon her applicable tax bracket; (3) the petitioner's income tax liability shall then be deducted from the gross royalties, thereby creating an amount which we will refer to as the net royalties; and (4) the petitioner shall pay the respondent 25% of the net royalties from the four books.
The above is mentioned to provide definitive context that what is being discussed by the court is product that was created while the marriage existed. Additionally, the royalties or profits from that product were already coming in before the dissolution of the marriage. The fact scenario is nothing like Bowlby or the Shelton proceedings.
The fact that the Bowlby court cited the line from Heinze does not establish law that says, “In all cases anything created during a marriage that leads to financial gain is marital property.” A nascent idea does not constitute marital property. Nor does, the Bowlby decision, indicate that all financial gain resulting after the dissolution of the marriage, but arising from product created during the marriage, is viable consideration as marital property.
Since you have no proof of the books date of creation you must be relying on the idea that it is the mere thought or mention of a book that brings it into existence. Your ill conceived logic appears to suggest that any thought, idea, or inspiration, a spouse has while married becomes marital property. If one were to apply this idea further, they might have a strong argument that Linda had no interest of any kind in 3ABN since the dream, idea, or thought, existed in Danny’s mind prior to their marriage (A Channel of Blessing by Bob Ellis, pg 24, in talking about the inspiration for 3ABN, “His first thought the night before (at 3:00 AM, actually) had been to telephone his best friend and soon to be wife, his beloved Linda.”). However, this theory could never survive a day in court. You have no proof the book existed as anything more than a mere mention in the September 2004 issue of 3ABN World. Because of this, any future royalties would reasonably be considered speculative, as there wasn’t even a guarantee the book would be written. Your speculation that the mention, in September of 2004, of a future book then logically assumes its existence prior to June 25 of the same year is inane.
You have taken a quote you like, one which on its face may appear to serve your purpose, and attempted to shove this square peg into a legal round hole. The courts citation of the comment in Heinze is used to establish some legal history or precedence, but the court then indicates, it does not apply in this situation and provides its rationale for making that decision. You have completely ignored the facts and misappropriated the courts use of the quote. In analyzing Heinze it becomes even more obvious that what the law has addressed is the creation of product during a marriage and the on-going royalties or financial gain from that product of the marriage relationship. Even if you had some legal ground to stand on, it is evident that the Dunn case would significantly reduce any financial gain that Linda might realize – remembering that it is unlikely she has any standing to make a claim.
Back to the Bowlby decision, it appears you missed the following commentary:
- “Alisha argues that the trial court abused its discretion because its division of marital assets was unjust . . . We disagree.”
- “A trial court's distribution of marital assets should not be reversed absent an abuse of the trial court's discretion . . . In re: Marriage of Schmidt, 242 Ill. App. 3d at 966."
- "Just proportions does not mean equal amounts, and the trial court is not obligated to make specific findings as the reasons for its award. In re: Marriage of Schmidt, 242 Ill. App. 3d at 966."
- "Even if we were to accept Alisha's asserted personal debts . . . the trial court did not abuse its discretion in distributing the marital property, and Alisha's arguments are unavailing. The trial court's award was in "just proportions." See 750 ILCS 5/503(d) (West 2000)."
- “The value of the growing crops is speculative, . . .”
- “After Matthew is awarded the entirety of the 2001 growing crop, the distribution remains equitable in nature and in just proportions.”
The thinking evident here, in the courts own words, establishes the rationale whereby it shows how the comment you have cherry-picked from the Heinze case, does not apply. The application of this thinking to the Shelton case would likely result in a decision that, since the work did not exist in any form, other than thought, speculation, or conversation prior to the dissolution of the Shelton’s marriage it is not marital property. Because it is not marital property, Linda Shelton has no claim to royalties on the book in question. Even if the book was outlined on paper prior to the marriage, all value would be speculative and therefore not to be considered in the settlement of marital property.
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Wow! You sure know how to muddle up things with a mass of words, don't you?
What is glaringly absent from what you wrote is any definite statement as to when Antichrist Agenda was written. And that confirms Danny's game plan of trying to hide all that, which is also confirmed by the fact that that issue of 3ABN World went missing.
Danny had already written the manuscript before Shelley Quinn laid eyes on it and then rewrote it. If you don't know that, then you ought to read the book, for she makes that pretty plain.
Danny gave her the manuscript when she visited 3ABN. So when did she visit? Before or after the divorce? She was on the set when Danny "explained" everything around June 17, 2004. Was that the visit? Or was it an earlier one?
It really is inconceivable that Danny started writing the manuscript on June 26, 2004, and then after writing it all out, Shelley came to visit yet again, and then she rewrote the first chapter, and then Danny liked it, and then Danny told her to rewrite the whole thing, all before the end of July or August.
And what you write about future royalties being speculative is nonsense, since a bit of the future is already past. Remember? Danny made an estimated $749,000 to $809,000 in kickbacks and/or royalties between 2005 and 2007.
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Might ask Danny if he's ever used a screwdriver to forcefully open a young woman's bedroom door at night?
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Danny knows all about that...
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Crystal, Gurl you are worrying my nerves all those inuendos. I just say what has to be said. If you got something to say, Gurl say it. Iffn' you don't, let it go! Ya' killin' me here! Jes' say it!
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I just keep coming back to this question. How many just plain people do you know, let alone someone who heads a Christian (?) ministry, who have been questioned, linked or accused of the things that Danny Sheldon has been? I used to live in a small town in Northern CA and we had a "soap opera" happening in the church between two couples. Ended up with one member in jail for trying to have murder committed. I went to visit him in jail and remember thinking - " I don't know people like this." I wanted to throw up. It was so totally opposite of anything I had ever experienced. In the 40 years before and the almost 20 after, I have never run into anything even close to it until I started reading about 3ABN. Just find it amazing. If only one or two of the alledged accusations are true it is enough to make a person sick to the stomach. I did try to question 3ABN by email and got a nasty little email back from Walt clocked in "In the precious name of Jesus". Again, how many people like this do you know. Maybe it is something in the water in IL.
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You are right, GRAT, it is just plain weird.
If you or anyone else cares to forward Walt's emails, while this saga is ongoing I am keeping a collection.
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You have it already.
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I had a letter from Walt Thompson when I ask about Linda and how I felt it was so unfair to her to remove everything about her from 3ABN. I was so disgusted with it that I deleted it. Sorry. I would have liked to have added to the collection.
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You have it already.
My apologies for not keeping it all straight. It's a chore!
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Sorry that may have sounded a little short. I didn't mean for it to sound that way. Don't expect you to remember it all. I'm impressed with what you can remember and keep straight. Keep on keeping on! :thumbsup:
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Any SDA pastor or church employee would be placed on administrative leave if a young adult woman would have filed an affidavit alleging unwanted sexual advances. An investigation would then take place, by a disinterested third party.
Administrators and board members at 3ABN are familiar with how any ministerial organization would handle such accusations.
No actions were taken by 3ABN's board of directors when the president of 3ABN had such an affidavit made against him.
This clearly appears to be a coverup and an abuse of power.
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Any SDA pastor or church employee would be placed on administrative leave if a young adult woman would have filed an affidavit alleging unwanted sexual advances. An investigation would then take place, by a disinterested third party.
Administrators and board members at 3ABN are familiar with how any ministerial organization would handle such accusations.
No actions were taken by 3ABN's board of directors when the president of 3ABN had such an affidavit made against him.
This clearly appears to be a coverup and an abuse of power.
Those are the things which occur or could have occurred when someone proceeds with a complaint against another.
But an affidavit by itself does not prove guilt or innocence...
And how would you have justified putting anyone on a administrative leave of absence pending an investigation, when you weren't able to proceed with an investigation, and were actually prevented from doing so by the alleged victim, Crystal?
IOW How do you conduct an investigation when the affidavit writer and those behind her writing it were only willing to mail it to those who could do nothing about it, and then complain and gripe and accuse because nothing was done? How would you proceed when they were not willing to file a police report or cooperate with an investigation or even talk to anyone on the 3abn board about it, or proceed in any kind of way beyond the mass mailings to those who were uninvolved? (those who also couldn't have done anything without the alleged victim's cooperation -- even if they did have the authority to proceed with an investigation and did have a say so about what to do the parties involved?)
How do you justify taking action against anyone without an investigation of the circumstances, or being allowed to question both the accuser and the accused unless you are an Inquisitor or a live in a communist or fascist state, Crystal?
I say anyone, because what we are talking about here is not just DS, these principles apply to anyone, including YOU. Should you be put on leave of absence pending an investigation when there is no way for that investigation to happen? Should you be fired even tho you claim to be innocent just because someone writes a affidavit against you, and then won't talk about it, or cooperate with a investigation and you never get the chance to face your accuser? Should you be considered guilty without proof or do you want to be considered innocent until proven guilty?
There is no need to answer this. I am sure that all here know in their hearts, even if they will never admit it, that they would not want that for themselves, or their loved ones, even those who wish that upon DS, or another.
If you want to ask Danny Shelton something "CRYSTAL", THEN GO DO SO, PLEASE.
If you have something to report to the Police, "CRYSTAL",THEN GO DO SO, PLEASE.
If you have something to bring to the 3abn board's attention or Danny's church, or the board member's churches, then take it there, tell it to them, let them handle their members, and if they don't? then complain to their conference, and BE SPECIFIC, and let them handle their members, and their member churches . That's the way it works. If they do nothing? then maybe you have a reason to be publicly saying something, but you still need to be specific.
All your posts are is ugly innuendo and a smear campaign and fodder for the masses who love to believe evil of another. Those who eat this kinda gossip and rumor up like it's an essential part of their daily diet.
Others here may think your post content is all fine and dandy and that the end justifies the means but I disagree.
This is not the right way to do things, and what you are doing here is not even remotely christian to me.
~ Cindy
P.S. I know who the real Crystal is and you and I both know you are not her.
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:ROFL:
...pot...kettle...black...
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Get your head out of the sand, Cindy.
Alyssa had good reason for not wanting to meet with the board. Remember how Glenn Dryden was treated, how Mike Riva stooped so low as to send him that threatening letter? Remember Walt Thompson's claimed investigation where he never even bothered to contact the alleged victims or their families?
Danny and Walt are all about cover up, not about handling matters in a professional, reputable way.
I think 3ABN donors have a right to know whether donor funds paid Mike Riva to write that despicable, reprehensible letter he sent to Dryden. Did Mike Riva sell his soul to 3ABN to write that letter, or to Danny Shelton? Who paid the bill, in other words?
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Ted Kennedy used power and prestige to thwart off any investigation into his drunk driving that murdered a young woman at Chappaquiddick.
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Get your head out of the sand, Cindy.
Alyssa had good reason for not wanting to meet with the board. Remember how Glenn Dryden was treated, how Mike Riva stooped so low as to send him that threatening letter? Remember Walt Thompson's claimed investigation where he never even bothered to contact the alleged victims or their families?
Danny and Walt are all about cover up, not about handling matters in a professional, reputable way.
And the entire policeforce , the various DAs, or their various Churches, and the entire 3abn board, etc were also all about cover up, and none ( not a one?)had or have a conscience, or sense of ethics or morality? Danny and Walt have such power and could have ignored them, or covered all that up whether in regards to Tommy or Alyssa or anyone else? puleeese...
I think 3ABN donors have a right to know whether donor funds paid Mike Riva to write that despicable, reprehensible letter he sent to Dryden. Did Mike Riva sell his soul to 3ABN to write that letter, or to Danny Shelton? Who paid the bill, in other words?
Always fixating on Tommy and your sexual allegations against him and attempting to change other topics to that.. Always muddying the waters, and condemning someone whether realated to the issue or not, instead of dealing with issues one at a time...
And you wonder why nothing is resolved, and you were sued???
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I believe my answer to you was appropriate.
And 3ABN's donors do have a right to know whether their donations paid Mike Riva to write that despicable, reprehensible letter he sent to Dryden.
And Mike Riva is not unrelated to this whole controversy. Remember? Riva not only sent that reprehensible, despicable letter to Dryden, he also put his signature on the Sept. 25 and Oct. 2, 1998 deeds whereby Danny made nearly $129,000 in 1 week. And then Riva had the nerve and gall to argue in the property tax case that there was no evidence of private inurement.
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I believe 1998 was cited, but the other side came back with 1995. I would like to hear if it was 1998. I believe I got it in "What I would like to ask Danny Shelton".
Yeah, it said this was when the uplink games stopped. To me, the uplinks stopped because she graduated and was no longer paying or they broke up. I guess the beginning of the event was prior to 1998. Don't know when it stopped.
Quote from: CRYSTAL on November 07, 2008, 10:58:08 PM
Might ask why he stopped recording and uplinking those high school girls games after 1998?
An out of state company hired by a sponsor recorded the games Fran, NOT 3abn. 3abn just provided the uplink so it could be broadcast to the states the other teams came from.
The reason it was a big deal is because the Girl's softball team went to Nationals that year and Nationals took place in Illinois near 3abn. That's a big deal for any hometown or team, but especially so in that rural area...
They stopped recording, and discontinued the uplink in 1998 because Nationals were over.
In addition to Danny's cousin, Alyssa also played on that team, and the daughter of another 3abn employee. Her Father was the coach. I forgot his name now.
I am surprised that Darrell Mundall, or another who lived there hasn't spoke up and clarified this before now as Crystal doesn't appear to have the story straight. Oh wait.. Sam did explain all this but y'all just ignored that and kept running with the sordid false version....
It is my understanding that the sign with the sponsor's name ( not DS, or 3abn) might still be at the ball field.
Maybe Duane or someone else has seen it or knows??
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It is my understanding that the sign with the sponsor's name ( not DS, or 3abn) might still be at the ball field.
Maybe Duane or someone else has seen it or knows??
Danny's name IS on the sign.
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Thanks, Duane. And that just illustrates that the "facts" Cindy cites about Danny or his cousin or anything else are no more reliable than those Walt Thompson cites, the man who reports what he believes he was told.
So Cindy, who or what is the source of your information regarding the car loan and all? Those details you cited were concrete. Why not get a copy of the loan and its payment history and post it?
And why not post the picture you say that you have?
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It is my understanding that the sign with the sponsor's name ( not DS, or 3abn) might still be at the ball field.
Maybe Duane or someone else has seen it or knows??
Danny's name IS on the sign.
Yes it is Duane, BUT, that is obviously a different sign.
This whole discussion has been about recording the girl's softball games,(the Nationals) and who paid for that, and why, NOT about who donated money to build a facility.... Those are two different things.
Thank you anyway.
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Thanks, Duane. And that just illustrates that the "facts" Cindy cites about Danny or his cousin or anything else are no more reliable than those Walt Thompson cites, the man who reports what he believes he was told.
Wrong, You must think people are stupid, Bob. Donating money to build a facility is a whole different ball game... Most I hope can understand that.
So Cindy, who or what is the source of your information regarding the car loan and all? Those details you cited were concrete. Why not get a copy of the loan and its payment history and post it?
I don't have a copy, nor do I feel the need to attempt to get one, Bob. As you stated the details I cited are concrete. Anyone else who cares to verify that for themselves has only to talk to those who were there and involved and even witnesses...
And why not post the picture you say that you have?
I didn't say I had a picture of the sign with the donor/sponsors name, I am not even sure if it is still there, that is what I was asking about and for...
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(And contrary to what she claimed here in her posts, there were witnesses to that. I even have a picture of it..) Quote from Ian.
No you didn't say you had a picture of the sign did you Ian and I am pretty sure you knew what was being asked.
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It is my understanding that the sign with the sponsor's name ( not DS, or 3abn) might still be at the ball field.
Maybe Duane or someone else has seen it or knows??
Danny's name IS on the sign.
Yes it is Duane, BUT, that is obviously a different sign.
This whole discussion has been about recording the girl's softball games,(the Nationals) and who paid for that, and why, NOT about who donated money to build a facility.... Those are two different things.
Thank you anyway.
LOL. I should have known. Why did I even try?
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Well, ya all sympathizers. If all these are made up lies about DS...how pray tell does Danny S. live in the extravaganza lifestyle that you or no one can hide now or before. Even if he wrote his own books he must have still used the pew money to get it out. There is no way out of his misuse of pew funds no matter what you say or do. What would he be doing giving pew money to town ball facilities. Yes I do know how. He claims all pew money is his for all his talent shows....Maybe DS has physico problems and won't pay as much as the ones protecting his kingdom. I should not even post on here as this is not my custom to do this sort of thing. It is a waste of time to argue with individuals with devilish intent to protect evil handling of innocent people giving to the Lord. The divorce, and early happenings drove me to this site to understand where mother's and our support was going.
Causing, appalling disgust, deceivement, arrogant, sex, and evil that shows in the documents on display. It is almost like DS compares himself to Daniel. His big mistake will just go away and he will be the apple of the Eye. Well it could....but he will pay! Sympathizers ....It is like telling me that Obama is now the answer hope and future to the world from corruption of both parties. Your circles will come back to you on all issues. Blind in one thing and the same in the other. Danny Shelton is guilty of misuse of funds big time. Go feed the :horse: I know how much that costs!!
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Thanks, Duane. And that just illustrates that the "facts" Cindy cites about Danny or his cousin or anything else are no more reliable than those Walt Thompson cites, the man who reports what he believes he was told.
Wrong, You must think people are stupid, Bob. Donating money to build a facility is a whole different ball game... Most I hope can understand that.
But where did you get the idea that there was more than one sign? You referred to a sign, and if there has only been one sign, and Duane posted a picture of that sign, my statement is valid. Your contention that there must be another sign would be a glaring inaccuracy.
So Cindy, who or what is the source of your information regarding the car loan and all? Those details you cited were concrete. Why not get a copy of the loan and its payment history and post it?
I don't have a copy, nor do I feel the need to attempt to get one, Bob. As you stated the details I cited are concrete. Anyone else who cares to verify that for themselves has only to talk to those who were there and involved and even witnesses...
1. You failed to state the source of your information.
2. In this case we have something that can be easily documented to be true or false, and yet you suggest that people can instead rely on he said/she said. Why?
And why not post the picture you say that you have?
I didn't say I had a picture of the sign with the donor/sponsors name, I am not even sure if it is still there, that is what I was asking about and for...
You said you had a picture from ASI. Why not post it? Or rather, why did you ignore my question?
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Sorry, I meant to spell David instead of Daniel in my last post and I am not seeing modify for correction.
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Now you are just laughable Bob. "It is the truth that you heard that"? Why are you repeating heresay Bob?
Crystal asked a question, and I answered it to the best of my ability.
Do you not believe in EG's writings on gossip? Do you not believe what the bible says about the same? In the last 2 years, if I had a nickel for everytime you have said "I heard", I could retire Bob.
Did you just grossly exaggerate, or can you prove your statement?
You couldn't get a conference job before all this....
Would not your statement above qualify as gossip that can easily be disproven as a mean-spirited lie? Did you verify what you said above?
now you that have exposed such a character of deceit, lies and ....
Be specific.
Because you are willing to do or say anything to make Danny and 3abn look bad.
Why not separate the two. Unless 3ABN is a Shelton family business.
Unfortunately, 3ABN's willingness to keep Danny onboard demonstrates beyond a reasonable doubt that it cares little about righteousness, ethics, primitive godliness, or conservative Adventist principles.
Again, if Linda told you anything different than that, go to the "source".
Can't, and if you don't know that, you shouldn't be ranting like you are.
Since December 14, 2007, I have been forbidden to talk to Danny Shelton, and so I haven't.
But regardless, Danny isn't a reputable source, and everyone should know that by now. Anyone who would:
- Threaten a non-Adventist pastor in order to silence his concerns about child molestation,
- Lie about child molestation allegations,
- Knowingly put an alleged pedophile with children,
- Divorce his wife for non-biblical reasons while trying to make everyone think she was an adulteress,
- Cover up the fact that he funneled hundreds of thousands of dollars from 3ABN through Remnant into his own pockets,
- Fail to disclose all his income and assets in court documents,
- Hire worldly attorneys to harass his brethren,
- Refuse to resign from a supporting ministry even after getting caught,
can't be trusted. And everyone knows that.
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(And contrary to what she claimed here in her posts, there were witnesses to that. I even have a picture of it..) Quote from Ian.
No you didn't say you had a picture of the sign did you Ian and I am pretty sure you knew what was being asked.
It is always so nice to hear from you GRAT, as you don't post often, so what is it about this that caused you to attempt to chastise me, or if not that, whatever it is you are trying to do here?
And are you saying you want me to post the picture here on this forum, as Bob does? If so, why?
I ask because I am weighing the merits of doing so, and whether I should. Your answers would be helpful.
..ian
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Well, ya all sympathizers. If all these are made up lies about DS...how pray tell does Danny S. live in the extravaganza lifestyle that you or no one can hide now or before. Even if he wrote his own books he must have still used the pew money to get it out. There is no way out of his misuse of pew funds no matter what you say or do. What would he be doing giving pew money to town ball facilities. Yes I do know how. He claims all pew money is his for all his talent shows....Maybe DS has physico problems and won't pay as much as the ones protecting his kingdom. I should not even post on here as this is not my custom to do this sort of thing. It is a waste of time to argue with individuals with devilish intent to protect evil handling of innocent people giving to the Lord. The divorce, and early happenings drove me to this site to understand where mother's and our support was going.
Causing, appalling disgust, deceivement, arrogant, sex, and evil that shows in the documents on display. It is almost like DS compares himself to David. His big mistake will just go away and he will be the apple of the Eye. Well it could....but he will pay! Sympathizers ....It is like telling me that Obama is now the answer hope and future to the world from corruption of both parties. Your circles will come back to you on all issues. Blind in one thing and the same in the other. Danny Shelton is guilty of misuse of funds big time. Go feed the :horse: I know how much that costs!!
Sorry if this post doubled up as I could not find to correct a mistake. I meant to spell David above instead of accidently saying Daniel.
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I felt like you were trying to be obtuse and make it sound like you didn't know what picture was being talked about. Like you wanted us to think you were referring to a picture of the sign not the ASI picture. I don't have any reason to wish to see the ASI picture as I probably wouldn't know who else was in the picture.
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I felt like you were trying to be obtuse and make it sound like you didn't know what picture was being talked about. Like you wanted us to think you were referring to a picture of the sign not the ASI picture. I don't have any reason to wish to see the ASI picture as I probably wouldn't know who else was in the picture.
Hmmm.. ok thanks.
Well 2 different pictures were being discussed the one taken of Danny Shelton and Sister's husband at the ASI convention discussing her posts, and the one of the sign at the softball field. Maybe that is why it was confusing to you, as well as to myself.
laters..
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Right on Tinka!
You are so right! Praise God you can see right through those who are trying to cover a multitude of sins!
Bob,
Ignore those comments from the factually challenged. You are by far the professional one! Your facts are there for all to read. They are not of the Lord for sure! I know you have to post to let people know the truth. I am sorry you have to repeat, repeat & repeat to those with blinders one.
Their facts all come from Danny, the factually challenged counterfeit! They give no proof. They give nothing to even lend to the words they are saying!
Danny is really charismatic. He could sell and Eskimo an air conditioner when the weather is 150 degrees below zero! I will never subject my brain to him. I see what he has done to others. God bids up to treat our bodies with wholesome things. That leaves Danny out in the cold for sure!
Does any one know if the paternity test has been made by now?
I appreciate you and Gailon for your hard work and your full disclosure of the truth.
Bring on the jury! Non-Adventists will see right through him! The judges sure can see through them! I am still smiling at the way the judge responded in the document I read last month! The judge knows!
I have been reading the documents on your new website. I started with the 1st document filed to open the lawsuit. I read every accusation they made against both you and Gailon. There was one that I know for a fact you guys never made! However, every accusation has been proved through your research.
Your documents are very revealing. All you cited above, plus much more is right on!
God be with you as you are at war with the real counterfeit!
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Ian,
I would like to see the photo from ASI. It could be the first in your submitting anything of value.
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Bring on the jury! Non-Adventists will see right through him! The judges sure can see through them! I am still smiling at the way the judge responded in the document I read last month! The judge knows!
It was funny, some of the things he said. For those who want to read them, see http://www.3abnvjoy.com/ilsd-08mc00016/ilsd-08mc00016-doc-29.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/ilsd-08mc00016/ilsd-08mc00016-doc-29.pdf).
Litigation 101.
Or, (1) ways Danny might hide money which means we have to conduct more discovery, (2) how to use a lawsuit to say it ain't so, Joe, and (3) how to open a very large can of worms.
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Ian,
I would like to see the photo from ASI. It could be the first in your submitting anything of value.
Wow Fran--how could you possibly know Ian's posts are of no value if you don't read them? :oops: I mean, you did say you don't read them.
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Bring on the jury! Non-Adventists will see right through him! The judges sure can see through them! I am still smiling at the way the judge responded in the document I read last month! The judge knows!
It was funny, some of the things he said. For those who want to read them, see http://www.3abnvjoy.com/ilsd-08mc00016/ilsd-08mc00016-doc-29.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/ilsd-08mc00016/ilsd-08mc00016-doc-29.pdf).
Litigation 101.
Or, (1) ways Danny might hide money which means we have to conduct more discovery, (2) how to use a lawsuit to say it ain't so, Joe, and (3) how to open a very large can of worms.
You thought the Judge was funny? I did read what he said. The very end was the most interesting. For those who don't know, Mr. Simpson represents 3ABN. The Court is the Judge speaking.
MR. PICKLE: Your Honor, can I speak to the issue
of complete production?
THE COURT: No. No, we don't need to get there
right now. All we're dealing with here, because the
production issue is clearly not before me.
MR. PICKLE: Could I --
THE COURT: No. No. No. We're done here. I have
one of two options here. And I could either go ahead and
quash this subpoena and with the understanding that the
defendants could reserve the subpoena on Gray Hunter Stenn at
a later date when this scope of discovery has been narrowed
by Judge Hillman in Massachusetts. That would --
MR. PICKLE: Your Honor --
THE COURT: No. No. No. You have had your time
to talk. Now is mine.
MR. PICKLE: Okay.
THE COURT: I don't know what that would really
accomplish, so what I'm going to do is this: We're going to
do nothing on this. We're just going to leave this subpoena
open for right now. And I will direct that Gray Hunter Stenn
and Three Angels take every effort to preserve any documents
of any kind, documents or records of any kind, electronic or
otherwise, which might be produced under the subpoena. And
I'm going to then order right now that any further litigation
concerning the subpoena which has been issued to Gray Hunter
Stenn be transferred to the district of Massachusetts and
Judge Hillman because it is so closely and completely
intertwined with matters before him at this time. And I fear
that anything which might be done here might lead to
inconsistent rulings, and that will be that.
So the subpoena is open. Gray Hunter Stenn and
Three Angels are ordered to preserve any records of any kind,
electronic or otherwise, which might satisfy the subpoena.
The matter then will be transferred to Judge Hillman for any
further action. And waiting until the scope of discovery is
resolved is going to be a good way to do that.
And we have made a transcript of these proceedings.
Anybody who desires to have a transcript may contact Jane
McCorkle and arrange for the transcript. And that will be
that. Actually, you're going to have this electronically so
I guess Judge Hillman could pull this up if he wanted to if
somebody orders it. Right. And that will be that.
MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Judge Frazier.
THE COURT: All right. Thanks, everybody.
(End of hearing.)
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Thanks, Duane. And that just illustrates that the "facts" Cindy cites about Danny or his cousin or anything else are no more reliable than those Walt Thompson cites, the man who reports what he believes he was told.
Wrong, You must think people are stupid, Bob. Donating money to build a facility is a whole different ball game... Most I hope can understand that.
But where did you get the idea that there was more than one sign?
I got that idea as soon as the picture of another sign was posted, Bob.
I thought my post about that was quite clear. (http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php/topic,1067.msg18830.html#msg18830)
You referred to a sign, and if there has only been one sign, and Duane posted a picture of that sign, my statement is valid. Your contention that there must be another sign would be a glaring inaccuracy.
Ah.. the hypothetical "if"...
Still wrong. I would put it like this, Bob:
I referred to a specific sign, and there has obviously over time been more than one sign, as Duane just posted a picture of another sign, your statement is therefore invalid. Your contentions are full of glaring inaccuracies.
Moving on... and I do mean that. If you want to continue quibbling about this, and trying to justify what you wrote, do it alone.
So Cindy, who or what is the source of your information regarding the car loan and all? Those details you cited were concrete. Why not get a copy of the loan and its payment history and post it?
I don't have a copy, nor do I feel the need to attempt to get one, Bob. As you stated the details I cited are concrete. Anyone else who cares to verify that for themselves has only to talk to those who were there and involved and even witnesses...
1. You failed to state the source of your information.
That is a truly a hoot coming from you Bob... but if by that you mean I failed to name names? That is true. Far too many innocent people have already been publicly sacrificed to this Bonfire Of The Vanities, I don't intend to add to that.
2. In this case we have something that can be easily documented to be true or false, and yet you suggest that people can instead rely on he said/she said. Why?
More than a couple of things are worth noting here...
1. You already stated the details I cited were concrete...
2. The personal info on those loan papers are neither your's nor the public's business, and to post them would be a violation of privacy. So even if I had them, which I don't, I would NEVER post them or give them to you.
3. I didn't suggest that people can instead rely on he said/she said. YOU just suggested that for me. He said/ she said indicates opposing viewpoints or stories. That isn't the case here. Let me repeat myself: "Anyone else who cares to verify that for themselves has only to talk to those who were there and involved and even witnesses" they will all tell the same story.
If they don't know who those people are, then it is probably not their business.
4. You don't need the "payment history". You might try asking Linda, after all she knew all about the loan and the car etc.. and had no problem with it. Then.
You said you had a picture from ASI. Why not post it? Or rather, why did you ignore my question?
I didn't mean to ignore your question. But I have been debating with myself about the merits of posting it in contrast to Sister's posts just to prove she is deceptive, and whether I want to attempt to do that??
What's your opinion about that, Bob?
..ian
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Junebug!
Well, well,well! Those parts are not what was being discussed. I encourage everyone to read the whole thing!
Hey, Junebug, why is it being sent to Hillman? He refused to rule because it should be heard by Hillman. I agree.
Why did you not enter what ALL the judge said? He is on to what is going on. Anyone reading the document will see!
However, thank you for revealing your chopped up counterfeit view!
The judge knew what was happening and knew what he was going to do. Bob had no clue and wanted to make comments. However, when the judge saw what was in the wind he put a stop to the 3ABN group! Yes, it is a must read! Be sure to read it all, not just the counterfeits choice.
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FYI Ian, I was never confused about what picture was being talked about. And I don't know who sister is so how would I know who her husband is?
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The very end was the most interesting.
Note that the first one labeled "Pickle" is actually Gailon. There is a place earlier where "Simpson" is actually Gailon.
Note also that Simpson led the court to believe that the issue of scope and relevance was not yet decided by Hillman, when Simpson had told me that it was. And since Hillman had denied Simpson's request to limit the scope of discovery, I think Hillman had already decided it.
That is a problem with hiring worldly lawyers.
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But where did you get the idea that there was more than one sign?
I got that idea as soon as the picture of another sign was posted, Bob.
I thought my post about that was quite clear. (http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php/topic,1067.msg18830.html#msg18830)
You didn't answer my question. Where did you get the idea that there was another sign other than the one Duane posted? The only sign I ever recall hearing about is the one he posted. Where did you get the idea that there was a sign commemorating anything other than the building of the ball diamond or whatever it is?
2. In this case we have something that can be easily documented to be true or false, and yet you suggest that people can instead rely on he said/she said. Why?
More than a couple of things are worth noting here...
1. You already stated the details I cited were concrete...
What I meant by stating that is that you provided concrete details which could easily be proven true or false with documentation.
2. The personal info on those loan papers are neither your's nor the public's business, and to post them would be a violation of privacy. So even if I had them, which I don't, I would NEVER post them or give them to you.
Then don't bring it up. Entirely refrain from making easily documented assertions that you refuse to document.
You said you had a picture from ASI. Why not post it? Or rather, why did you ignore my question?
I didn't mean to ignore your question. But I have been debating with myself about the merits of posting it in contrast to Sister's posts just to prove she is deceptive, and whether I want to attempt to do that??
What's your opinion about that, Bob?
..ian
Like I said above, if one can prove an assertion, it should be done under at least some circumstances.
But suppose what you said about Sister were true, and I do not say that it is. What would that prove? Not much. It certainly wouldn't prove that Danny didn't threaten Glenn Dryden, or lie about the child molestation allegations against Tommy, etc.
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Folks... Cindy, or 'Ian' and the entire group of Danny defenders know that this paternity test is an explosive issue. That's why they do what they can to change the subject from that... So let's stick to it. Don't get distracted. Danny doesn't want this out in the open because he knows that the results of this could potentially destroy what's left of his credibility.
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Robert, your postings across the Internet always remind one of these individuals . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnunfciSr7k
They visually represent your standard operating procedure.
But where did you get the idea that there was more than one sign?
I got that idea as soon as the picture of another sign was posted, Bob.
I thought my post about that was quite clear. (http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php/topic,1067.msg18830.html#msg18830)
You didn't answer my question. Where did you get the idea that there was another sign other than the one Duane posted? The only sign I ever recall hearing about is the one he posted. Where did you get the idea that there was a sign commemorating anything other than the building of the ball diamond or whatever it is?
2. In this case we have something that can be easily documented to be true or false, and yet you suggest that people can instead rely on he said/she said. Why?
More than a couple of things are worth noting here...
1. You already stated the details I cited were concrete...
What I meant by stating that is that you provided concrete details which could easily be proven true or false with documentation.
2. The personal info on those loan papers are neither your's nor the public's business, and to post them would be a violation of privacy. So even if I had them, which I don't, I would NEVER post them or give them to you.
Then don't bring it up. Entirely refrain from making easily documented assertions that you refuse to document.
You said you had a picture from ASI. Why not post it? Or rather, why did you ignore my question?
I didn't mean to ignore your question. But I have been debating with myself about the merits of posting it in contrast to Sister's posts just to prove she is deceptive, and whether I want to attempt to do that??
What's your opinion about that, Bob?
..ian
Like I said above, if one can prove an assertion, it should be done under at least some circumstances.
But suppose what you said about Sister were true, and I do not say that it is. What would that prove? Not much. It certainly wouldn't prove that Danny didn't threaten Glenn Dryden, or lie about the child molestation allegations against Tommy, etc.
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2. The personal info on those loan papers are neither your's nor the public's business, and to post them would be a violation of privacy. So even if I had them, which I don't, I would NEVER post them or give them to you.
Then don't bring it up. Entirely refrain from making easily documented assertions that you refuse to document.
Bob,
Allow me to be perfectly clear.
I did not bring up the loan agreement or the payment history documents. I don't even consider them necessary. You brought them up, you wanted them posted and made public. Not me.
Is there something about respecting others and their right to privacy
that you just can't comprehend?
Here is what I brought up.
""Might want to ask" Sister (or if it's really your business and you want the real facts, ask the real cousin) how a car she claims was"bought" for the cousin had to be sold to pay off the loan when she and her mother couldn't make the payments, or how that qualifies as "hush money"
The girl herself could tell you that the car wasn't bought for her and that it had to be sold to pay off the loan.
See this is a real problem, and not just in this topic but in almost every one you bring up. An innocent is publicly sacrificed in your BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES. There are a bunch of you making accusations here about a innocent girl that you don't even know, gossiping about her, and tarnishing her reputation, a girl who you haven't even consulted about this or asked for her version of events.
You all think this is righteous? Well, not me. I call it hatred, Character assassination (murder) and lies, which is serving a whole other God than the one you are all claiming to work for in this "work" you have appointed yourselves.
It's disgusting and vile.
Good-bye, Bob.
Danny had an affair with a second cousin during her senior year of high school. He bought her a car. Some people might consider it hush money. Since CRYSTAL was the one who started this topic, let her be the one to supply further information.
I don't know how I missed this one..
Yeah right, Crystal supplies zero information or proof as anyone reading this thread can see for themselves. 100% of her posts so far are ugly unsupported insinuations and accusations not even backed up by anyone I've asked or heard from who were there at the time. Yet her thread and posts continue to be allowed here blackening not only DS's name but his young cousin's... And what has she done to deserve or justify all the public smearing and gossip about her on this forum?
Anyway..
"Might want to ask" Sister (or if it's really your business and you want the real facts, ask the real cousin) how a car she claims was"bought" for the cousin had to be sold to pay off the loan when she and her mother couldn't make the payments, or how that qualifies as "hush money".
Might also want to ask Sister to post some proof as it is Sister who is the one who boldly and bluntly has claimed there was an "affair", (again an accusation against the "young cousin".)
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Ian, in today's perverse society, accusations of sexual impropriety are usually quicker to gain traction than the more mundane financial accusations that Gailon and Robert have tossed around. Since the financial accusations have not been able to convince anyone to this point - even the IRS - the attackers of God must focus on accusations that are bound to get more people riled up. Robert has focused the majority of his efforts on the issues that revolve around Tommy Shelton and the, evidently manufactured, issues of sexual misconduct he has tried to pin on Danny Shelton.
His obsession with these two particular areas raises red flags in the minds of many, and well it should. More than once in recent months I have been asked why there is never any attack on the message spread to the world by 3ABN - and they answer their own rhetorical question by pointing to the truth of the message being beamed around the world from 3ABN. In the area churches around me, there have been a multitude of baptisms in the past year that are the result of souls either being pointed to 3ABN's broadcasts by a friend or "stumbling on to" the broadcasts as they flipped around the dial. The truth wins souls. How many souls do you think have come to the foot of the cross as a result of the work of Gailon, Robert, Lynette, Fran, Kris F., and others who have been on their band wagon? One would have to guess, none, since they keep peoples focus away from God, they keep others eyes on the earth and not on heaven. Isn't there much said in the Bible and Mrs. White's writings about those who know the truth, yet lead others astray and away from the saving grace of the cross?
anyman
2. The personal info on those loan papers are neither your's nor the public's business, and to post them would be a violation of privacy. So even if I had them, which I don't, I would NEVER post them or give them to you.
Then don't bring it up. Entirely refrain from making easily documented assertions that you refuse to document.
Bob,
Allow me to be perfectly clear.
I did not bring up the loan agreement or the payment history documents. I don't even consider them necessary. You brought them up, you wanted them posted and made public. Not me.
Is there something about respecting others and their right to privacy
that you just can't comprehend?
Here is what I brought up.
""Might want to ask" Sister (or if it's really your business and you want the real facts, ask the real cousin) how a car she claims was"bought" for the cousin had to be sold to pay off the loan when she and her mother couldn't make the payments, or how that qualifies as "hush money"
The girl herself could tell you that the car wasn't bought for her and that it had to be sold to pay off the loan.
See this is a real problem, and not just in this topic but in almost every one you bring up. An innocent is sacrificed to your BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES. There are a bunch of you making accusations here about a innocent girl that you don't even know, gossiping about her, and tarnishing her reputation, a girl who you haven't even consulted about this or asked for her version of events.
You all think this is righteous? Well, not me. I call it hatred, Character assassination (murder) and lies, which is serving a whole other God than the one you are all claiming to work for in this "work" you have appointed yourselves.
It's disgusting and vile.
Good-bye, Bob.
Danny had an affair with a second cousin during her senior year of high school. He bought her a car. Some people might consider it hush money. Since CRYSTAL was the one who started this topic, let her be the one to supply further information.
I don't know how I missed this one..
Yeah right, Crystal supplies zero information or proof as anyone reading this thread can see for themselves. 100% of her posts so far are ugly unsupported insinuations and accusations not even backed up by anyone I've asked or heard from who were there at the time. Yet her thread and posts continue to be allowed here blackening not only DS's name but his young cousin's... And what has she done to deserve or justify all the public smearing and gossip about her on this forum?
Anyway..
"Might want to ask" Sister (or if it's really your business and you want the real facts, ask the real cousin) how a car she claims was"bought" for the cousin had to be sold to pay off the loan when she and her mother couldn't make the payments, or how that qualifies as "hush money".
Might also want to ask Sister to post some proof as it is Sister who is the one who boldly and bluntly has claimed there was an "affair", (again an accusation against the "young cousin".)
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Anyman - 3ABN is not God. Danny Shelton is not God.
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2. The personal info on those loan papers are neither your's nor the public's business, and to post them would be a violation of privacy. So even if I had them, which I don't, I would NEVER post them or give them to you.
Then don't bring it up. Entirely refrain from making easily documented assertions that you refuse to document.
Bob,
Allow me to be perfectly clear.
I did not bring up the loan agreement or the payment history documents. I don't even consider them necessary. You brought them up, you wanted them posted and made public. Not me.
False. You brought them up, not me.
Here is what I brought up.
""Might want to ask" Sister (or if it's really your business and you want the real facts, ask the real cousin) how a car she claims was"bought" for the cousin had to be sold to pay off the loan when she and her mother couldn't make the payments, or how that qualifies as "hush money"
See? You brought up the alleged payment history for that car, and you used that alleged payment history to make Sister out to be a liar.
So here is your chance to prove your point. But instead of producing the documents to prove your point, you claim it to be a breach of privacy to do so. If you are unwilling to prove your point when it can be easily done, then DON't MAKE THE POINT.
The girl herself could tell you that the car wasn't bought for her and that it had to be sold to pay off the loan.
Super. I assume that based on your statement, you have talked with her? And thus you have her contact info? Please email or PM it to me, and I will be happy to contact her.
See this is a real problem, and not just in this topic but in almost every one you bring up. An innocent is publicly sacrificed in your BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES. There are a bunch of you making accusations here about a innocent girl that you don't even know, gossiping about her, and tarnishing her reputation, a girl who you haven't even consulted about this or asked for her version of events.
Danny Shelton is not an innocent girl. And if he victimized someone, that doesn't put that someone in a bad light, in my opinion.
-
More than once in recent months I have been asked why there is never any attack on the message spread to the world by 3ABN - and they answer their own rhetorical question by pointing to the truth of the message being beamed around the world from 3ABN.
3ABN's proclamation that Danny is the Lord's anointed, and that he cannot be corrected by any human being on earth, is rank heresy. Perhaps it might even be called blasphemy. It certainly isn't Seventh-day Adventism.
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Anyman - 3ABN is not God. Danny Shelton is not God.
I am going to make an assumption here, and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but my guess is your efforts in attacking a straw man are in regards to the words emphasized below:
Ian, in today's perverse society, accusations of sexual impropriety are usually quicker to gain traction than the more mundane financial accusations that Gailon and Robert have tossed around. Since the financial accusations have not been able to convince anyone to this point - even the IRS - the attackers of God must focus on accusations that are bound to get more people riled up. Robert has focused the majority of his efforts on the issues that revolve around Tommy Shelton and the, evidently manufactured, issues of sexual misconduct he has tried to pin on Danny Shelton.
Though it shouldn't be necessary, as there is not a person here in defense of 3ABN or Mr. Shelton who considers either one to be "God", I will explain the obvious. The phrase you are winnowing out of my entire comment is not a reference, either on its face or through insinuation, that I consider either one to be "God." I contend, and my many postings make it abundantly clear, that GAJ/RP, Inc. are attacking God's work, His message, and His people. My phrase is a generalized term, and yes the work that 3ABN and Danny Shelton have and are doing is the work of God. If you attack the church and its many supporting ministries you attack God (and yes, there is occasion when change needs to be made, but attacking the work as GAJ/RP, Inc. have, is not needed ever). If you attempt to replace the Word of God with your own demagoguery (ala GAJ/RP, Inc.) you are attacking God. If you attempt to set up your own judgments in the place of those of God (again, ala GAJ/RP, Inc.), you are attacking God.
So your straw man being dealt with, I stand by my earlier post, as well as this one.
anyman
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anyman, I respectfully request you to not blaspheme on this forum. Concern over child molestation, unbiblical divorce, private inurement, and lying is not attacking God's work or message or people.
In fact, to attack those who have such concerns is to attack God's work and message.
The first angel's message calls all to return to obedience and repentance to all of God's commandments, whether it be the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 8th, 9th, or 10th. But there are those whose hearts are in rebellion to that message, and who oppose those who uplift the law of God.
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Robert, you and your endless parade of straw men . . .
The phrase "Lord's anointed" or similar ones "anointed of the Lord" or "anointed by the Lord" do not convey the implicit idea that someone is some how being equated with God. That is a ridiculous argument.
The phrase "Lord's anointed" is defined as: "To choose by or as if by divine intervention." (FN1) The Bible is filled with this concept. The disciples were the Lord's anointed, as was David, Samuel, and Esther. God chose each of these individuals to do a very important part of His work here on earth.
Let's look at a few references:
Leviticus 6:22: And the priest of his sons that is anointed in his stead shall offer it: it is a statute for ever unto the LORD; it shall be wholly burnt.
1 Samuel 16:6: And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the LORD's anointed is before him. KJV
1 Samuel 24:6: And he said unto his men, The LORD forbid that I should do this thing unto my master, the LORD's anointed, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the anointed of the LORD.
2 Kings 9:6: And he arose, and went into the house; and he poured the oil on his head, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I have anointed thee king over the people of the LORD, even over Israel.
2 Chronicles 6:42: O LORD God, turn not away the face of thine anointed: remember the mercies of David thy servant.
Psalms 2:2: The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Isaiah 61:1: The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Luke 4:18: The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
That should be enough to put this absurd train of argument to rest. The phrase has been widely used through out recorded history and does not mean, when used, that someone is being equated to God. Was Danny anointed by God to establish and build a television network to spread the true message of the Lord? History evidences that as truth. The results of 3ABN's broadcasts evidences that as truth. God chose Danny to do this work, just as he chose my local Pastor to do his, just as He has done through out the ages when He has needed someone to complete His work on earth. By your logic, all those Biblical workers for God who referred to themselves or others as "anointed" are as guilty of blasphemy.
anyman
FN1: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Lord's+anointed
More than once in recent months I have been asked why there is never any attack on the message spread to the world by 3ABN - and they answer their own rhetorical question by pointing to the truth of the message being beamed around the world from 3ABN.
3ABN's proclamation that Danny is the Lord's anointed, and that he cannot be corrected by any human being on earth, is rank heresy. Perhaps it might even be called blasphemy. It certainly isn't Seventh-day Adventism.
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I respectfully request that you cease your blasphemy on this forum. Additionally, I request that you cease your demagoguery on this forum. The first angel makes that call to the true Commandments of God, the true lifestyle of God and not to the Church of Robert. You do not hold the papal scepter of truth for God's people. The process of conversion is an individual one that happens between each human and God. You do not hold the magic formula of judgment whereby you alone can determine the spiritual lives another. I know you think you do, but the truth is you do not. You need to stop judging others by your human interpretations and focus on what we all need to - a growing personal relationship with God that brings us to knees of humility and gratitude.
anyman
anyman, I respectfully request you to not blaspheme on this forum. Concern over child molestation, unbiblical divorce, private inurement, and lying is not attacking God's work or message or people.
In fact, to attack those who have such concerns is to attack God's work and message.
The first angel's message calls all to return to obedience and repentance to all of God's commandments, whether it be the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 8th, 9th, or 10th. But there are those whose hearts are in rebellion to that message, and who oppose those who uplift the law of God.
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Anyman - 3ABN is not God. Danny Shelton is not God.
I am going to make an assumption here, and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but my guess is your efforts in attacking a straw man are in regards to the words emphasized below:
Ian, in today's perverse society, accusations of sexual impropriety are usually quicker to gain traction than the more mundane financial accusations that Gailon and Robert have tossed around. Since the financial accusations have not been able to convince anyone to this point - even the IRS - the attackers of God must focus on accusations that are bound to get more people riled up. Robert has focused the majority of his efforts on the issues that revolve around Tommy Shelton and the, evidently manufactured, issues of sexual misconduct he has tried to pin on Danny Shelton.
Though it shouldn't be necessary, as there is not a person here in defense of 3ABN or Mr. Shelton who considers either one to be "God", I will explain the obvious. The phrase you are winnowing out of my entire comment is not a reference, either on its face or through insinuation, that I consider either one to be "God." I contend, and my many postings make it abundantly clear, that GAJ/RP, Inc. are attacking God's work, His message, and His people. My phrase is a generalized term, and yes the work that 3ABN and Danny Shelton have and are doing is the work of God. If you attack the church and its many supporting ministries you attack God (and yes, there is occasion when change needs to be made, but attacking the work as GAJ/RP, Inc. have, is not needed ever). If you attempt to replace the Word of God with your own demagoguery (ala GAJ/RP, Inc.) you are attacking God. If you attempt to set up your own judgments in the place of those of God (again, ala GAJ/RP, Inc.), you are attacking God.
So your straw man being dealt with, I stand by my earlier post, as well as this one.
anyman
Agreed. I don't know of any one who has defended either DS or 3abn here who view them as God either. That repetitive accusation is old and tired...
That being said. I still think it would best for us all to remember that we are very accountable for how we treat others and what we do unto others because God takes it all very personally, thus an attack on an individual may actually qualify as an attack of God.
Certainly the end never justifies the means, and I have seen that reasoning used here in these issues quite a bit... (such as in the latest post by Bob above where his need to accuse DS justifies his, Sister's and CRYSTAL's, and other's here abuse of DS's young cousin.)
..ian
"And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it TO ME..... Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it TO ME'"
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Robert, you and your endless parade of straw men . . .
Why did you ignore the valid point I made? In Seventh-day Adventism, we don't elevate any human being above all human correction, not even Danny Shelton. Such nonsense is rank heresy.
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I respectfully request that you cease your blasphemy on this forum. Additionally, I request that you cease your demagoguery on this forum.
Again, why did you ignore the valid point I made?
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That being said. I still think it would best for us all to remember that we are very accountable for how we treat others and what we do unto others because God takes it all very personally, thus an attack on an individual may actually qualify as an attack of God.
Well said. Thus, one day, if Danny and Riva and Duffy refuse to make things right, Jesus may tell them, "I was concerned about the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton, and you threatened me with lawsuits and the destruction of My reputation."
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Robert, you and your endless parade of straw men . . .
Why did you ignore the valid point I made? In Seventh-day Adventism, we don't elevate any human being above all human correction, not even Danny Shelton. Such nonsense is rank heresy.
Let’s use the words from your web site Robert. I am going to use two cherry-picked quotes that are found on save-3abn.com to deal with your second straw man.
"It's Wrong to Disagree with Danny"
"The Israelites had to acknowledge that God had chosen Moses to lead them. I want to stop and say that we may not always agree with who God chooses, but when God chooses someone, disagreeing with that one can brings on us adversity, discouragement, and the loss of our vision." (John Lomacang)
and
"God Warns, 'No Church Discipline, No Court Case, No Investigation Against Danny' "
"And then other thing, there's a promise that God has for us, and there's a warning that God has for others. He says, 'Touch not the Lord's anointed, and do my prophet no harm. Now when we look at the men in the Bible that were prophets, not a one of them were faultless, not a one of them without, were out mistakes and sin in their lives. But God says, 'When I anoint a man, when I anoint a woman, it's my job to straighten them out.' Anyone who takes that job is stepping on God's territory, and God will deal with those who try to usurp the thing that belongs only to Him." (John Lomacang)
(both quotes copied and pasted as they exist today, 03/09/2009 on save-3abn.com)
There is a tremendous difference between human correction and judgment. Correction is defined as “The act or process of correcting.” (FN1) and judgment as “1. The act or process of judging”(FN2) and judging as Bible To govern; rule.(FN3) Are we to believe, Robert, that you have set yourself up to govern the Seventh-day Adventist Church and its members? Has God provided you insight beyond all man that would qualify you to rule over the “appropriateness” of all Christians in the faith? Your claims would appear to evidence that you do entertain these ideas. You have evidence "judgment" in your actions, as opposed to "human correction." You have adjudged 3ABN of sins and crimes, adjudged Danny Shelton, members of 3ABN leadership, ministers associated with 3ABN, the church because it has not done what you think it should, all to be outside the Truth of God. Romans 14:13 KJV: "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." How many have stumbled as a result of your actions, Robert?
Even when the above quotes are taken in context, they do not evidence anyone at 3ABN claiming that Danny Shelton is above reproof. No man is. As any Christian must admit, all judgment is God’s. Man does not have the right to judge, as only God knows the heart. What did happen to those who chose to question God and his choice of Moses as the leader of His movement for that time? It would very difficult for you to defend against a claim that you, at best, tangentially followed the directions of God, through Matthew, when in Chapter 18 (FN4) he defined how those with God in their hearts approach a fellow believer they fear has fallen into sin. Never did God indicate that one brother should “go public” against another. One might note, too, that the verses do not apply to one “getting his own way” in the process of attempting to recover a soul for God. As evidenced in your litigation techniques, as well as your approach in the ASI hearings, much of this has been about, “getting your own way” and “having the last word.” Neither of those conditions of the heart is evidenced in Scripture as a way to make the faith and the faithful whole.
The second quote above makes clear that the work of God in the life of those He chooses is to help them, guide them, and reprove them. Far too often well meaning Christians do not trust God to do what He has said He would. They feel they must do the work of the Holy Spirit. They believe they must point out sin and wrong and “force” compliance of the faith on those who stray from the path. That is not the way God has ordained the work. The work of the Spirit is the work of conviction. That is not your work to do. You can not force the believers into the mold you ordain as most appropriate for the faithful – and this you have attempted time and again.
The first quote raises an interesting question. Is the place you find yourself, the result of your attacks on the work of God? You may not agree with God’s choice of Danny Shelton to raise up 3ABN and you may not agree with God’s choice of 3ABN to be instrumental in bringing the message to the dark corners of the world, but, because they were raised up by Him, the Bible indicates it is not your place to try and bring them down, it is not your work to bring revival, especially in the way you have attempted. Your focus in not on God’s hand in the happenings of 3ABN, it is on human controls. You desire to control 3ABN and use your attacks on the leaders of 3ABN to achieve your goal.
No one at 3ABN has ever stated, “Danny is above human correction.” It is evident that Danny does not believe this as he has counseled with many church leaders in regards to the GAJ/RP, Inc. accusations. We are not privy to these conversations, nor should you expect to be, Robert. You have adopted an “I need to know everything” attitude, and God does not support this. You can continue to make these straw man arguments – but they will blow away in the wind of reason as they can not stand honest evaluation.
Let God do His work, Christ do His, and the Holy Spirit do His. Yours is to lead others humbly to the foot of the cross and nothing more.
anyman
(FN1) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/correction
(FN2) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/judgment
(FN3) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/judging
(FN4) 15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. (KJV)
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Junebug!
Well, well,well! Those parts are not what was being discussed. I encourage everyone to read the whole thing!
Hey, Junebug, why is it being sent to Hillman? He refused to rule because it should be heard by Hillman. I agree.
Why did you not enter what ALL the judge said? He is on to what is going on. Anyone reading the document will see!
However, thank you for revealing your chopped up counterfeit view!
The judge knew what was happening and knew what he was going to do. Bob had no clue and wanted to make comments. However, when the judge saw what was in the wind he put a stop to the 3ABN group! Yes, it is a must read! Be sure to read it all, not just the counterfeits choice.
Frannie, open your eyes. I wasn't trying to offer a "chopped up counterfeit view." Man, I just copied straight from the source. Anyone can see it is no counterfeit. If I was to copy the whole thing it would take up a huge amount of room and I'm quite sure AT wouldn't be too happy since the link was provided and ANYONE can go read it for themselves. So I only copied the last part.
My point was that Pickle thought it was "funny" and so I copied the part I thought was humerous. And no, court records ARE official court records and HAVE to be accurate. Don't try to tell me Pickle that this wasn't you saying these things with your name right there--I wasn't born yesterday.
Well, Frannie, I happen to agree with the Judge too. He should have referred it back to Judge Hillman because yes, as Attorney Simpson said, he was the one that knows what is going on. I have absolutely no problem with that. It was a wonderful victory for Attorney Simpson. Anyone with any sense of fairness can see this. Nice try though....
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I think it would be pretty easy with the right connections, places attended to get some ones DNA. They would have to stop eating,drinking, stop hygiene, wear gloves, let their fingernails grow or etc, etc. So with that in mind when you see paranoia of accidentally letting out your DNA---would'nt that be :ROFL: There is even a way simplier then the above mentioned!! It would be so easy. (to see who is lying of course and clear this up) After all, there was not a reason for anyone to come down on DS if all visions of evil were not in view. That is what is so amazing that the sympathizers cannot understand. There was no earthly reason for anyone to pick on poor DS if he did not do anything wrong!!!! They do it all the time to get the answers. I think I might even be able to connect you up with the DNA lab.
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Robert, you and your endless parade of straw men . . .
Why did you ignore the valid point I made? In Seventh-day Adventism, we don't elevate any human being above all human correction, not even Danny Shelton. Such nonsense is rank heresy.
Let’s use the words from your web site Robert. I am going to use two cherry-picked quotes that are found on save-3abn.com to deal with your second straw man.
Thank you for quoting where John Lomacang indicated that it was wrong to disagree with Danny, and that God alone can correct Danny.
But I do not appreciate your bearing false witness against me. I have not criticized the church, and I am not attacking the work of God.
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My point was that Pickle thought it was "funny" and so I copied the part I thought was humerous. And no, court records ARE official court records and HAVE to be accurate. Don't try to tell me Pickle that this wasn't you saying these things with your name right there--I wasn't born yesterday.
Be willfully ignorant if you want, Junebug, like Lee who said that maybe the minor was consenting, the Lee who professes to be a conservative Adventist.
I suppose, then that you maintain that Greg Simpson said the following, since the transcript says he did?
MR. SIMPSON: Yes, Your Honor, he is the face of Adventism of 3ABN.
THE COURT: The what?
MR. SIMPSON: He is considered to be the face of Adventism, Seventh-Day Adventism, on Three Angels Broadcasting Network. Three Angels Broadcasting Network is the conservative broadcaster of the unique message to the Seventh-Day Adventist Church, and he's been the founder. He is a constant programmer, interviewer, and has been the resident of 3ABN since its inception back in the 1980s.
THE COURT: So he probably is -- I know right where it is. I used to live in Marion, but --
MR. SIMPSON: They were such a big public figures they were concerned enough to move their divorce to Guam.
THE COURT: But it's going to make a difference, obviously, down the road if he is considered a public figure or not for defamation purposes.
MR. SIMPSON: I understand that.
(http://www.3abnvjoy.com/ilsd-08mc00016/ilsd-08mc00016-doc-29.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/ilsd-08mc00016/ilsd-08mc00016-doc-29.pdf))
So I even refer to a place where clearly the speaker was wrongly attributed, and you still maintain otherwise. Why, Junebug? Why are you that extremely biased?
Incidentally, if the court reporter thought the above speaker was Simpson when it was really Joy, then the speaker before "Simpson" which was labeled "Joy" must not be Joy. That speaker that spoke about the 1998 house deal and such was me.
So I got labeled Joy, and then Joy got labeled Simpson on pp. 13-15. That's why in a telephone hearing it is absolutely essential that you identify yourself before you speak.
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Second. Do you know who asked Ian to get involved in matters involving 3ABN and DS?
I am so sorry I missed this! My answer is no.
Can you tell me so I will positively know?
Would it change the facts that have been presented thus far?
Would it change the documented evidence of financial problems at 3ABN?
Would it change all of the facts presented in all of the court documents thus far in this trial of 3ABN & Danny Lee Shelton against Robert Pickle and Gailon Joy?
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Someone might ask Danny if he has a love child?
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Second. Do you know who asked Ian to get involved in matters involving 3ABN and DS?
I am so sorry I missed this! My answer is no.
Can you tell me so I will positively know?
I wouldn't have put it quite as quaddie did, but it's not a big mystery Fran. I am sure Bob will confirm this. He and I are really the only ones who can say this from a first person perspective.
Bob and I were acquainted and members of the same Yahoo group and often in agreement on various topics etc. This was all before he got involved in the 3abn discussions and his investigation. That of course is why he has always known me as "Cindy".
He was quoting and talking about what he was reading about 3abn in the group he and I were both on, and he and I got involved in discussions about the different issues and concerns, as that was the first time I had heard of this mess and I was appalled by it and how it had been handled. He thought my questions and such were good and suggested I could help.
Anyway to make a long story short he told me about Maritime and Blacksda and how to sign up, and I did and it was all good at first, he even defended me and my questions at first, but after various emails, pms and posts between he and I and between us and others, we soon after came to a parting of both ways and views... the rest is known history.
end of story. :)
..ian
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Ian,
I also thought the best of your intentions when you first appeared on BSDA. I wish it could have continued that way.
Johann
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Ian,
I also thought the best of your intentions when you first appeared on BSDA. I wish it could have continued that way.
Johann
Well Johann, my intentions have never changed. I always wanted to get to the bottom of everything, and help resolve things if I could. I still do. And I too wish things could have continued as they were. :)
I guess some pick a side and stick to it blindly loyal, but I can't, principles have to come before personality for me, but sometimes that can hurt. It can hurt a lot.
One day all of this will be gone, and passed away. No more tears, pain, sickness, sin or death.
That will be one glorious day.
Laters...
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Ian,
I also thought the best of your intentions when you first appeared on BSDA. I wish it could have continued that way.
Johann
Well Johann, my intentions have never changed. I always wanted to get to the bottom of everything, and help resolve things if I could. I still do. And I too wish things could have continued as they were. :)
I guess some pick a side and stick to it blindly loyal, but I can't, principles have to come before personality for me, but sometimes that can hurt. It can hurt a lot.
One day all of this will be gone, and passed away. No more tears, pain, sickness, sin or death.
That will be one glorious day.
Laters...
What has hurt me the deepest is how you seem to twist what I have said, then reworded according to your twisting, claiming that was what I was saying, and since your twist was not true you have claimed several times that what I was saying was not the truth.
It has really disturbed me dealing with that kind of a method, as if that was the way to discover the truth. I have been praying you'd see the light and change your methods to make it possible to deal with you. When you say "later" - does that contain a glimmer of hope?
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Ian,
I also thought the best of your intentions when you first appeared on BSDA. I wish it could have continued that way.
Johann
Well Johann, my intentions have never changed. I always wanted to get to the bottom of everything, and help resolve things if I could. I still do. And I too wish things could have continued as they were. :)
I guess some pick a side and stick to it blindly loyal, but I can't, principles have to come before personality for me, but sometimes that can hurt. It can hurt a lot.
One day all of this will be gone, and passed away. No more tears, pain, sickness, sin or death.
That will be one glorious day.
Laters...
What has hurt me the deepest is how you seem to twist what I have said, then reworded according to your twisting, claiming that was what I was saying, and since your twist was not true you have claimed several times that what I was saying was not the truth.
It has really disturbed me dealing with that kind of a method, as if that was the way to discover the truth. I have been praying you'd see the light and change your methods to make it possible to deal with you. When you say "later" - does that contain a glimmer of hope?
I never wanted to hurt you Johann, I still do not. And yes, for now there is hope and that remains, and I hope to keep that in my heart, and that you do also... (One of the lesser known and preached texts being Rom 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? ")
We are obviously going to see things differently and disagree Johann as we both have different opinions and views, but surely we can both agree it is better to deal with facts and documentation rather than feelings, memories, personal opinions, emotions, and accusations based on those things which we shouldn't trust? I hope so, for otherwise nothing can be resolved between us.
I would dearly love for us to stand together where it counts.
~ Cindy
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We are obviously going to see things differently and disagree Johann as we both have different opinions and views, but surely we can both agree it is better to deal with facts and documentation rather than feelings, memories, personal opinions, emotions, and accusations based on that?
He should not have to discount and ignore his own memories.
As far as facts and documentation go, what do you think of Brenda Walsh saying that Linda bought the tickets (for the alleged Florida trip) against Brenda's wishes, when Brenda herself reserved the tickets and 3ABN paid for them? And what do you think about Brenda saying that Linda's ticket was used when Delta Airlines says that it was never used?
And why would Brenda concoct such a wild-eyed tale? Why would she risk her reputation by lying like that?
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Emma, since we took this diversion, what is the likelihood that one can get DNA from 2000-year-old blood, given what you just described?
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We are obviously going to see things differently and disagree Johann as we both have different opinions and views, but surely we can both agree it is better to deal with facts and documentation rather than feelings, memories, personal opinions, emotions, and accusations based on that?
He should not have to discount and ignore his own memories.
This is so classic of you. However, rather than argue with you about what you believed Ian meant in her post, I want to remind you that memories are not facts. Even your own memories are nothing more than that. They are just MEMORIES. Memories are subject to so many things that our amazing minds are capable of. If you need a refresher I suggest you look at a segment from today on the Today Show.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/
If that link no longer works I suggest you google the name Ronald Cotton or the book Picking Cotton.
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We are obviously going to see things differently and disagree Johann as we both have different opinions and views, but surely we can both agree it is better to deal with facts and documentation rather than feelings, memories, personal opinions, emotions, and accusations based on that?
He should not have to discount and ignore his own memories.
This is so classic of you. However, rather than argue with you about what you believed Ian meant in her post, I want to remind you that memories are not facts. Even your own memories are nothing more than that. They are just MEMORIES. Memories are subject to so many things that our amazing minds are capable of. If you need a refresher I suggest you look at a segment from today on the Today Show.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/
If that link no longer works I suggest you google the name Ronald Cotton or the book Picking Cotton.
In court, testimony is all about memory.
If Danny, Walt, and Simpson thought they could just rely on testimony without documentation, then Johann should feel free to share his memories about what took place.
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In court, testimony is all about memory.
Really Robert?
How then would the testimony of say, a forensic accounting expert, be classified when they are being questioned about the legalities of financial transactions?
Would their testimony be memory based or fact based?
Would they testify by evidencing statutes, case law, persuasive authority, or accepted financial practices or would they rely on memories?
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In court, testimony is all about memory.
Really Robert?
How then would the testimony of say, a forensic accounting expert, be classified when they are being questioned about the legalities of financial transactions?
Would their testimony be memory based or fact based?
Would they testify by evidencing statutes, case law, persuasive authority, or accepted financial practices or would they rely on memories?
Fact witnesses are those who testify based on their memory regarding various facts.
Expert witnesses are those who take the facts and give opinions.
You are referring above to expert witnesses, not fact witnesses.
My apologies for not being more precise in that I was only speaking about fact witnesses when I said what I said.
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Emma, since we took this diversion, what is the likelihood that one can get DNA from 2000-year-old blood, given what you just described?
I have no first hand knowledge of this, logically it would depend on whether the blood has been exposed to extreme heat or something else that would denature it.
I do not deal with 2000 year old blood, I do have some dealings with much younger versions ;D
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Kind of like he was exonerated by ASI, the IRS, the EEOC, and the California Department of Fair Housing and Employment?
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In court, testimony is all about memory.
Really Robert?
How then would the testimony of say, a forensic accounting expert, be classified when they are being questioned about the legalities of financial transactions?
Would their testimony be memory based or fact based?
Would they testify by evidencing statutes, case law, persuasive authority, or accepted financial practices or would they rely on memories?
Fact witnesses are those who testify based on their memory regarding various facts.
Expert witnesses are those who take the facts and give opinions.
You are referring above to expert witnesses, not fact witnesses.
My apologies for not being more precise in that I was only speaking about fact witnesses when I said what I said.
Folks...
Will Bob call me a "fact witness" here?
I have witnessed Bob arguing about anything and everything and taking things to such ridiculous extremes that many times he doesn't even make sense, or he will be so intent on trying to be right about some tiny point that his arguments even contradict the major point he has earlier argued. That is based on my memories from years of reading his posts and his quibbling here and elsewhere.
Will he say that I "should not have to discount and ignore my own memories" as he did about Johann when Johann spoke of my posts?
Will he now reaffirm that "testimony is all about memories" as he was trying to further argue -- when it's my testimony based on my memories of his posts (the evidence)?
Doubtful. I am quite sure he will disagree with my testimony and has his own very different memories of all of this... ( I am also sure based on my memories of his reactions to opposing arguments in the past that rather than acknowledge this he will do 1 of 3 things. attempt to change the subject, find some other minor point to keep quibbling about here, or pretend this post doesn't exist)
The reality is that many times when relating events, witnesses may have different and conflicting memories from other witnesses about events which have occurred as each has a different point of view which is partial and subjective.
It is NOT all about memories.
... the truth is always determined by the facts and evidence whether in court or elsewhere.
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Facts documented and visualized is what is presented here. Call it quibbling, call it agitating, call it lies, call it forgiven sin, call it hidden sin to work its self out, you cannot change facts, truth, actions, and above all Crystal should not ride the middle under no conditions as she will be held accountable for accessory to the sin in the eyes of God. No way out as God keeps his eye on all situations and tests many people from one issue. Truth is the best policy to clear CORRUPTION. Knowing the corruption makes one guilty just the same as one doing it. So some on here need to come clean. Stand up, Post it and prove it beyond the documents and actions for the sake of your own selves. So far the oppositions have presented no documents unless I need to find the place as of yet where they are. I am nobody to answer to or to believe the opposition as they try without avail to convince against documents presented except it is the deceivement of the innocent that matters as a whole to me. It must concern Bob and Gailon also as they have taken the plight of the silent majority. Somebody had to. AND LOW AND BEHOLD SOMEONE WAS APPOINTED AS THEIR VERY OWN TALENT WAS MADE AVAILABLE. It is evident they are not of the followers sitting doing nothing but leaders to disarm the thieves. I have watched this talent from the inception of this whole saga of the courts as an unknown person to them. I was amazed as we have been previously in the courts for 15 years or more fighting for our lives against corruption. They fight for the right as we are very ac knowledgable of how corruption can be tangled and hid in the courts. A "wonderful" sum of money can do about anything and the pew money provides the on going saga unknowingly as the most are not on the posts as the Kingdom relies on. I would have been very elated if we could have found this talent for our case of horrific content. After all they are doing it in the best interest of all the opposition also YOU KNOW as the greater the sin, the hotter the fire :hot: Now is the time for all the victims to come clean instead of "QUIBBLING"
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Folks...
Will Bob call me a "fact witness" here?
I have witnessed Bob ....
Easy. "Ms. Conard, can you state a particular instance, including date and time, ...."
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No apologies necessary. Danny's recklessness and brash arrogance is offensive. That's what has caused the people he claims to represent to turn on him. How dare he use the SDA name to trick people into donating to his ministry when he skims from that to afford his lifestyle?
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Ha! Do you prefer "Mrs. Ford"? By the way, Cindy, do you have an attorney? Just curious...
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And is it really necessary to attempt to identify me with a last name here?
Ian, you are chiding Bob for doing what you have done.
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Ian - Married Men (or women) can have sexual partners while traveling the country very easily. They can easily do so even while at the General Conference Session.
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Ian - Married Men (or women) can have sexual partners while traveling the country very easily. They can easily do so even while at the General Conference Session.
I didn't know this bit of information. Are you speaking about SDA's? I don't know any that do such things. How come you know all about it?
Offensive statement removed.
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But what if they are consenting ....
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Of course, that doesn't make a bit of difference.
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Junebug - That was not very nice. In fact it was quite nasty. You don't know me or anything about me. How would you feel asking that if it were my husband that I was talking about? And if you think that stuff like that doesn't happen in the SDA church you have your head in the sand and that leaves you in a very precarious position.
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Junebug - That was not very nice. In fact it was quite nasty. You don't know me or anything about me. How would you feel asking that if it were my husband that I was talking about? And if you think that stuff like that doesn't happen in the SDA church you have your head in the sand and that leaves you in a very precarious position.
Please get off that high horse GRAT. And look at what you wrote again. I didn't know what you were trying to say either, and still don't. To me it was you who sounded not very nice, and kinda nasty, and your reply here sounds even more so...
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Please get off that high horse GRAT. And look at what you wrote again. I didn't know what you were trying to say either, and still don't. To me it was you who sounded not very nice, and kinda nasty, and your reply here sounds even more so...
If you think Junebug's comments were appropriate, which is what you have indicated, then Eduard asking if you did such things with Danny was fine too.
Grat's complaint was legitimate.
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If you think Junebug's comments were appropriate, which is what you have indicated, then Eduard asking if you did such things with Danny was fine too.
Grat's complaint was legitimate.
Typical.. and
how rude...
(imo)
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Part of the potential evidence is Danny's own statement that she had been chasing him for 17 years.
Cindy, was she married at the time the child was born?
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Part of the potential evidence is Danny's own statement that she had been chasing him for 17 years.
Cindy, was she married at the time the child was born?
Why don't you ask Brandy herself? or Danny Shelton?
I spoke with Mr. Paulson myself and he said it was possible he didn't hear DS correctly when he "thought" he said she had been chasing him for 17 years. He said it was noisy in the room. Obviously he didn't hear correctly and it is a shame he has even said anything when he doesn't even know for sure. This is how juicy gossip gets started and of course blown up way out of proportion.
To set the record straight: Danny DID NOT say Brandy had been chasing him for 17 years. Go to the source if you really desire to know the truth.
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Now Junebug, try to be more correct in your replies.
Danny's attorney got the judge to forbid me to talk to any director or employee of 3ABN. It's been that way since Dec. 14, 2007. Remember?
"I spoke with Mr. Paulson myself and he said" that he stands by his statement. I went straight to the source, or rather, the source went straight to me after Danny told him that.
Now you state emphatically that Danny did not tell Kevin that. How do you know? Are you taking the word of Danny Shelton for it, a proven liar? If so, why?
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Therefore, since you seem unable to quote where I said that it was potentially true, I have to conclude that I may not have said such a thing, and that perhaps I have been here wrongfully accused to the contrary.
It's possible that I said it somewhere, but I honestly can't find where on this forum I did.
Now if someone conclusively proves that I never said such a thing anywhere on this forum, my statement above does not automatically become a lie. I will not need to apologize to myself for saying that I possibly said it somewhere if it is later proven that I never did.
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Further, Greg, pick any aspect of the conservative message you wish, and see what I think of it. I'll defend 1844, the investigative judgment, our typical view of prophecy, righteousness by faith, and all the rest.
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Greg,
I suppose it is possible that I have been manipulated by Danny Shelton or Walt Thompson in an attempt by them to destroy 3ABN, but such a possibility seems absurd. But neither one has been putting money into my bank account.
What benefactors are you referring to?
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Again, it appears you are talking to me, but you keep addressing someone else.
How about you try something new? You might not like it and you may have some struggles making the necessary adjustment - but how about if you stick to the conversation. I stand by my postings and you have yet to address the questions or ideas presented there in. Instead you spin obtusely of in bizarre directions. It appears to indicate that you do not have any interest in dealing with the truth.
So, since you have admitted that Danny Shelton, nor Dr. Thompson have deposited funds into your account, might it appear to be "potentially true" that you in fact on the dole? The question is, whose bidding are you beholden to and what is their motivation? Might it appear that you have admitted, in your post, to be receiving payments from someone? Might that be in keeping with the information out there?
Greg,
I suppose it is possible that I have been manipulated by Danny Shelton or Walt Thompson in an attempt by them to destroy 3ABN, but such a possibility seems absurd. But neither one has been putting money into my bank account.
What benefactors are you referring to?
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No, I made no such admission. I am not on anyone's dole.
Now why not skip the innuendo and state what you are talking about. What information behind the veil are you referring to? The desperate speculations or rumors of a little fellow that divorced his wife without biblical grounds, while claiming she was an adulteress? That lied to cover up the child molestation allegations against his brother? That threatened a non-Adventist pastor if he didn't shut up about those allegations?
State your information and the factual basis for it.
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No, I made no such admission. I am not on anyone's dole.
Now why not skip the innuendo and state what you are talking about. What information behind the veil are you referring to? The desperate speculations or rumors of a little fellow that divorced his wife without biblical grounds, while claiming she was an adulteress? That lied to cover up the child molestation allegations against his brother? That threatened a non-Adventist pastor if he didn't shut up about those allegations?
State your information and the factual basis for it.
Does anyone other than me find the emphasized portion of this post rather, interesting? Just for clarification, the information, with strong basis in fact, does not come from Danny Shelton. As to your last demand, you are in no position to make such!
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And so, Greg, you have made it crystal clear yet again what the differences are between the two sides. We can document what we say, and do. You guys make assertions and expect everyone to believe your defamatory statements without your sharing one shred of evidence.
It's been this way over and over again. And people see through it.
"Linda committed adultery." Where's the evidence? "Just believe us."
"There's a tape." Where's the evidence? "Just believe us."
"There's hundreds of hours of phone card phone records." Where's the evidence? "Just believe us."
"Danny paid off Linda's car." Where's the evidence? "Just believe us."
"Danny paid off Alyssa's car." Where's the evidence? "Just believe us."
"Linda lives in a mansion with a huge pool." Where's the evidence? "Just believe us."
"Linda's car is titled in Danny's name too." Where's the evidence? "Just believe us."
"3ABN got reimbursed for the tickets to Florida." Where's the evidence? "Just believe us."
"Joy and Pickle are liars." Where's the evidence? "Just believe us."
"Pickle edits things to make them say what they don't say." Where's the evidence? "Just believe us."
"Danny didn't make a pile of royalties." Where's the evidence? "Just believe us."
"The allegations against Tommy are all 30 years old." Where's the evidence? "Just believe us."
"Someone is paying Joy and Pickle." Where's the evidence? "Just believe us."
"And if you don't believe us, then you are an enemy of the gospel, and out to destroy 3ABN."
What utter nonsense!
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Robert, if you want to make a point, make it . . . this is nonsense. Again, why don't you try and focus in on the discussion and add some weight to your point of view.
By the way, it would be plausibly true that you have posited accusation after accusation and expected the world to afford you a dispensation badge of infallibility.
You have made the point perfectly. "You [] make assertions and expect everyone to believe your defamatory statements without your sharing one shred of evidence." You claim evidence - but what you rarely have anything other than your interpretive analysis of the evidence. If you posited a theory that didn't rely on your interpretation of events, communications, etc. you might have a case. As long as you attempt to stand on your personal interpretation of these things your straw man will not hold you strong.
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Robert, if you want to make a point, make it . . .
You have made the point perfectly. "You [] make assertions and expect everyone to believe your defamatory statements without your sharing one shred of evidence." You claim evidence - but what you rarely have anything other than your interpretive analysis of the evidence.
Care to back up your statement with evidence, such as concrete examples where that has been done, and has been done in a majority of instances? Or do you wish to decline yet again to provide any evidence to support your assertions?
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No, I made no such admission. I am not on anyone's dole.
Now why not skip the innuendo and state what you are talking about. What information behind the veil are you referring to? The desperate speculations or rumors of a little fellow that divorced his wife without biblical grounds, while claiming she was an adulteress? That lied to cover up the child molestation allegations against his brother? That threatened a non-Adventist pastor if he didn't shut up about those allegations?
State your information and the factual basis for it.
Does anyone other than me find the emphasized portion of this post rather, interesting? Just for clarification, the information, with strong basis in fact, does not come from Danny Shelton. As to your last demand, you are in no position to make such!
ANYMAN,
You are in no position to open your mouth, but you do so with impunity and without regard to the truth. Fortunately, that infamous FIRST AMENDMENT grants you the same rights that it grants us...but then, perhaps we should file suit against you to shut you up???
While it would suite my fancy just fine, in weighing the options I believe you have nothing worthy to silence and therefore are a waste of time and energy.
However, it continues to be fun to spar with the illogical and mis-informed...get the point?
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUREPORTER
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SIX REASONS
Why a Divorce from Guam U.S.A. is Better.
1. VALIDITY AND RECOGNITION All U.S. courts and agencies, are required to accept a Guam divorce, as Guam is a U.S. jurisdiction. Guam's court decrees are entitled to "full faith and credit."
2. SPEED - A Guam divorce can be completed in about two weeks from the time you arrive in Guam. At that time you would receive the final divorce decree and be free to remarry.
3. SAFETY - Guam, while unknown to many people in the continental U.S., is truly an American vacation paradise. Guam citizens are U.S. citizens.
4. CORRUPTION FREE U.S. LEGAL SYSTEM AND U.S. TRAINED ATTORNEYS.
5. LANGUAGE An obvious advantage of the Guam divorce is that everything is in English. You will be fully able to understand all of the court documents you sign. There is no chance that something will be lost in the translation.
6. COST The total cost for the Guam divorce is $1200.00, which includes the filing fee, and a marital settlement agreement, custom drafted by a licensed U.S. Attorney, specializing in U.S. Divorce law.
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I see that Ian, Anyman and Co. have missed me during my absense from AT. I have been extremely busy in the real world and had little time for online amusements. I just finished catching up reading through this thread and see there is a claim of having a picture of Sister's husband speaking with Danny at the ASI Convention and Danny is talking about Sister's writings. Is it a talking picture? :dunno: Otherwide, how does a still picture prove that Danny was speaking with the individual pictured about Sister's writings and that he is Sister's husband? I would like to see this "proof" posted... or is it just another, "...believe me, I have PROOF!, but I am unwilling to post it...but I have my reasons..." :ROFL:
Greg and Cindi, we all know who you are, although I had forgotten how amusing your argumentation could become when viewed in conjunction with each other---factually challenged, but entertaining never the less. :wave:
Sam, this person you are speaking about, why not just say who it is? Perhaps she is the physician who treated Danny's mother before her death? You claim this person is not someone "in the know". What exactly do you understand "in the know" to mean? "In the know" of what information? Rather than actually answering questions, your "answers" only generate further questions:
- Where did you get your information on this topic?
- What makes you "in the know" on this particular topic?
- How do you know who Linda speaks with and what topics are discussed within her conversations?
- Are you a professional mind reader or the proud owner of a crystal ball which contains all truth and wisdom, how else could you know Pickle's source of information if he has not told you?
Ther are numerous other questions I could ask, but...well you all know where that usually takes us... :hamster:
Sister
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You might want to ask Danny if he ever had a vasectomy before proceeding further. :wave:
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I seem to remember that the fact that Danny had had a vasectomy was what inflamed the whole pregnancy test saga.
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That is correct.
Page 4 of http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-100-9.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-100-9.pdf) says that Brenda said it was done 7 years before. That statement was notarized in January 2007, and refers to a conversation that occurred in March 2006.
But page 4 of http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-100.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-100.pdf) transcribes Brenda as saying about a year ago that Danny told her in 2004 that he had had it done eight years before that.
So was it 2000 (2007 - 7), 1999 (2006 - 7), or 1996 (2004 - 8)?
In my revised requests to produce, which Danny was required to respond to by October 27, 2008, and to avoid which his lawyers filed the motion to dismiss, is the following:
Request No. 4: Sufficient documents proving or establishing the date that You
obtained a vasectomy.
Note: This request is relevant to the veracity of both you and Brenda Walsh, and to the
claims of Linda Shelton’s guilt raised by both you and Brenda Walsh.
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Due to the sensitive nature of the topic, the discussion on the "paternity test" has been moved to the semi-private area "3ABN Other." There will be no further discussion of that topic except on that thread. http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php/topic,1621.0.html (http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php/topic,1621.0.html)
George
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I wonder if Brandy's considered a divorce? She could get one done quickly and cheaply in Guam...
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Danny really needs to finish disclosing his income and assets that that his marital property can be divided up with Linda. It will soon be 5 years.
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I wonder if Brandy's considered a divorce? She could get one done quickly and cheaply in Guam...
Hmm, Why would she want a divorce if she went to all the deceit to get what she has.. Now maybe if he has to divide with Linda that might be a good reason. After all it was Linda that made 3abn watchable with inspiration.
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Well, if Danny continues denying responsibility for something that well could be his, then she's going to get cold feet real quickly.
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Deleted and moved.
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Deleted and moved
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Would be easy, in my opinion, to get cold feet living in a bubble like 3ABN. Those SDA hollers can really become peculiar places. In one situation someone even started pursuing his own cousin...
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Would be easy, in my opinion, to get cold feet living in a bubble like 3ABN. Those SDA hollers can really become peculiar places. In one situation someone even started pursuing his own cousin...
Ya think that is why you quit seeing so many yankees on there? Ya know, other talents! One fact is for sure that Linda and Danny were separate type "bubbles." or my word would be in "spheres" as was visible Linda was not of the Shelton sphere although amazingly brought out. Either way this was not compatable because of sin one way or the other... God knows. I know in reality that if only an inkling of all the horrific facts or complanints of, molestation, adultry, shunning of Linda's son way before the Brandy situation and what all went on in that family. I'd be out of that hollar flat on the run. Barefeet and all. I have only been able to see one mistake that Linda made. She should have left with her son. I would have. Teens see through many things. But I do commend her trying on all aspects and unseen reasons.
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LOL!!! SDA hollers! I love it! Never hear them called that before, definitely have an environment all their own, true enough!
Would be easy, in my opinion, to get cold feet living in a bubble like 3ABN. Those SDA hollers can really become peculiar places. In one situation someone even started pursuing his own cousin...
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LOL!!! SDA hollers! I love it! Never hear them called that before, definitely have an environment all their own, true enough!
No that is not "true enough," as you would like it to be. We are discussing a certain little holler that all SDA's are not in or at. It's kinda a place where ya fire your guns where the DS kept a runnin they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles ran through the bushes, where the rabbits would'nt go we fired again and they kept a runnin, and ran so fast that the hounds :beagle: couldn't catch them down to Florida and the Gulf of Mexico......(sorta holler).... :rabbit:
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Might ask Danny if he still takes spring breaks in Florida?
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Did Danny take spring breaks to Florida? If so, how did he get there?
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Well, he used to charter that jet. He could flit around anywhere with that. But after the donations weren't coming in so readily, no more jet. Brandy was down there before.
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Well, he used to charter that jet. He could flit around anywhere with that. But after the donations weren't coming in so readily, no more jet. Brandy was down there before.
Crystal
Guess this is not surmising when pew money comes into view again.
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Well, he used to charter that jet. He could flit around anywhere with that. But after the donations weren't coming in so readily, no more jet. Brandy was down there before.
The 3ABN jet flight records don't show a lot of trips to the Tampa area.
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I see that Ian, Anyman and Co. have missed me during my absense from AT. I have been extremely busy in the real world and had little time for online amusements. I just finished catching up reading through this thread and see there is a claim of having a picture of Sister's husband speaking with Danny at the ASI Convention and Danny is talking about Sister's writings. Is it a talking picture? :dunno: Otherwide, how does a still picture prove that Danny was speaking with the individual pictured about Sister's writings and that he is Sister's husband? I would like to see this "proof" posted... or is it just another, "...believe me, I have PROOF!, but I am unwilling to post it...but I have my reasons..." :ROFL:
Greg and Cindi, we all know who you are, although I had forgotten how amusing your argumentation could become when viewed in conjunction with each other---factually challenged, but entertaining never the less. :wave:
Sam, this person you are speaking about, why not just say who it is? Perhaps she is the physician who treated Danny's mother before her death? You claim this person is not someone "in the know". What exactly do you understand "in the know" to mean? "In the know" of what information? Rather than actually answering questions, your "answers" only generate further questions:
- Where did you get your information on this topic?
- What makes you "in the know" on this particular topic?
- How do you know who Linda speaks with and what topics are discussed within her conversations?
- Are you a professional mind reader or the proud owner of a crystal ball which contains all truth and wisdom, how else could you know Pickle's source of information if he has not told you?
Ther are numerous other questions I could ask, but...well you all know where that usually takes us... :hamster:
Sister
That's all very special as usual "Sister", but of course you have been trying to out people since BSDA days while insisting you were like a ghost flitting around and witnessing all (NOT) and reporting the facts (NOT) and claiming it was impossible for you to be identified, (NOT)and endlessly laughing about that. Nevertheless you have been, id'd "Swiss Kris" and we know who you are also... along with your husband "Brother" .. so who's laughing now? :D
Apart from that, I would love to comply with your request for pictures, sister, but I would like to quote the previous posts when I do so to keep all in context. Isn't that understandable? The problem is though that ever since I mentioned the picture I can't seem to find certain posts and threads on this forum... I know for a fact I read some of them one day and even discussed this with others, but the next day I couldn't seem to find them again...
Do you happen to know where they have been moved to, or have a link to any of your previous posts about the ASI convention or even the thread where you and anyman were posting about this previously?
Actually any member could help and be of assistance here , if they know where those posts are, or can locate them.
Thanks,
ian
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That's all very special as usual "Sister", but of course you have been trying to out people since BSDA days while insisting you were like a ghost flitting around and witnessing all (NOT) and reporting the facts (NOT) and claiming it was impossible for you to be identified, (NOT)and endlessly laughing about that. Nevertheless you have been, id'd "Swiss Kris" and we know who you are also... along with your husband "Brother" .. so who's laughing now? :D
Apart from that, I would love to comply with your request for pictures, sister, but I would like to quote the previous posts when I do so to keep all in context. Isn't that understandable? The problem is though that ever since I mentioned the picture I can't seem to find certain posts and threads on this forum... I know for a fact I read some of them one day and even discussed this with others, but the next day I couldn't seem to find them again...
Do you happen to know where they have been moved to, or have a link to any of your previous posts about the ASI convention or even the thread where you and anyman were posting about this previously?
Actually any member could help and be of assistance here , if they know where those posts are, or can locate them.
Thanks,
ian
Pretty proud of yourself, aren't you Cindy Conard Ford?? The more people you and your little friends can out, the better you all feel about yourselves, huh? Well, get your kicks now, cuz I think your day is coming - yours and Steffen's in particular. By the way, how is your attorney friend Cindy Randall? Any idea why she was recently held in contempt of court? Will she be the one to handle your legal issues?
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That's all very special as usual "Sister", but of course you have been trying to out people since BSDA days while insisting you were like a ghost flitting around and witnessing all (NOT) and reporting the facts (NOT) and claiming it was impossible for you to be identified, (NOT)and endlessly laughing about that. Nevertheless you have been, id'd "Swiss Kris" and we know who you are also... along with your husband "Brother" .. so who's laughing now? :D
Apart from that, I would love to comply with your request for pictures, sister, but I would like to quote the previous posts when I do so to keep all in context. Isn't that understandable? The problem is though that ever since I mentioned the picture I can't seem to find certain posts and threads on this forum... I know for a fact I read some of them one day and even discussed this with others, but the next day I couldn't seem to find them again...
Do you happen to know where they have been moved to, or have a link to any of your previous posts about the ASI convention or even the thread where you and anyman were posting about this previously?
Actually any member could help and be of assistance here , if they know where those posts are, or can locate them.
Thanks,
ian
Pretty proud of yourself, aren't you Cindy Conard Ford?? The more people you and your little friends can out, the better you all feel about yourselves, huh? Well, get your kicks now, cuz I think your day is coming - yours and Steffen's in particular. By the way, how is your attorney friend Cindy Randall? Any idea why she was recently held in contempt of court? Will she be the one to handle your legal issues?
Do you know how ridiculous and unchristian your threats and this kinda post looks to others Snoopy, especially as next to sister you are the queen of the "outers"?
But moving on..
does this mean you don't know where the posts and threads are? or cannot provide a link to them? Or can't explain in a satisfactory manner to inquiring minds why they would have been removed at this late date?
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Do you know how ridiculous and unchristian your threats and this kinda post looks to others Snoopy, especially as next to sister you are the queen of the "outers"?
You've done the same many times Ian.
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George, please explain just what you are saying. If Ian has made threats, where? If you are talking about Ian speaking out against outing and then doing so; being a hypocrite, where? Many times????? I don't recall ever seeing these things.
Do you know how ridiculous and unchristian your threats and this kinda post looks to others Snoopy, especially as next to sister you are the queen of the "outers"?
You've done the same many times Ian.
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Go look at Ian's site. If what Snoopy said qualifies as a threat and if the mention of people's names is an issue for Ian she has some introspection to do.
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"qualifies as a threat" ? It is a threat. Most, nearly always, see intimidation and fear tactics as threats. In my opinion mentioning people's names is not the issue. The issue seems to be when someone is a hypocrite about it. And, that is all I have to say about that.
Go look at Ian's site. If what Snoopy said qualifies as a threat and if the mention of people's names is an issue for Ian she has some introspection to do.
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"qualifies as a threat" ? It is a threat. Most, nearly always, see intimidation and fear tactics as threats. In my opinion mentioning people's names is not the issue. The issue seems to be when someone is a hypocrite about it. And, that is all I have to say about that.
Snoopy said "I think your day is coming" and if that is a threat Ian has done just as bad. Naming names in attempts to out or identify posters makes the mention of names an issue of hypocrasy when Ian has done that herself.
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Hear, Hear, George! Good point!
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Brandy... Have you considered that Danny Shelton is using you as a cover up?
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That's all very special as usual "Sister", but of course you have been trying to out people since BSDA days while insisting you were like a ghost flitting around and witnessing all (NOT) and reporting the facts (NOT) and claiming it was impossible for you to be identified, (NOT)and endlessly laughing about that. Nevertheless you have been, id'd "Swiss Kris" and we know who you are also... along with your husband "Brother" .. so who's laughing now? :D
Apart from that, I would love to comply with your request for pictures, sister, but I would like to quote the previous posts when I do so to keep all in context. Isn't that understandable? The problem is though that ever since I mentioned the picture I can't seem to find certain posts and threads on this forum... I know for a fact I read some of them one day and even discussed this with others, but the next day I couldn't seem to find them again...
Do you happen to know where they have been moved to, or have a link to any of your previous posts about the ASI convention or even the thread where you and anyman were posting about this previously?
Actually any member could help and be of assistance here , if they know where those posts are, or can locate them.
Thanks,
ian
Pretty proud of yourself, aren't you Cindy Conard Ford?? The more people you and your little friends can out, the better you all feel about yourselves, huh? Well, get your kicks now, cuz I think your day is coming - yours and Steffen's in particular. By the way, how is your attorney friend Cindy Randall? Any idea why she was recently held in contempt of court? Will she be the one to handle your legal issues?
Do you know how ridiculous and unchristian your threats and this kinda post looks to others Snoopy, especially as next to sister you are the queen of the "outers"?
But moving on..
does this mean you don't know where the posts and threads are? or cannot provide a link to them? Or can't explain in a satisfactory manner to inquiring minds why they would have been removed at this late date?
You mean like how 3ABN and Danny Shelton threatened Gailon and Bob with legal action for so long? Is THAT the type of threat you are talking about as being ridiculous and unchristian Cindy? Well, here's news for you in case you have been under a rock for a while. 3ABN claims to be a CHRISTIAN MINISTRY! I do not! As a matter of fact, I was trying to turn my Christian experience around by going to 3ABN in the first place and volunteering hundreds of hours of my professional time! I am firmly one of those who qualifies under 3ABN's new mantra - BREAKING MENDED PEOPLE! And I can tell you right now it will be a cold day in you know where before I EVER volunteer for a supposed "Christian ministry" ever again! So, that's what 3ABN has done for me!
Now, as to your perspective on my "threat". You and your little friends Steffan, Sammy and several others are guilty of defamation per se, and I have already consulted with an internet defamation attorney who looked at your smut site as well as several posts here at AdventTalk and he thinks I have a good case!! He's just waiting for me to sign his contract, and I am trying to decide whether its worth it to have to deal with you in litigation for a period of time. I try to ignore your posts, but when I do happen to see one it usually just pushes me closer to signing that contract. So, stew on that for a while! And don't worry about trying to go back and edit stuff out, as I have been printing out hard copies of your garbage for some time now.
And, you think I am "queen of the outers" next to sister?? :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: First and foremost, thank you for even thinking of me in the same sentence as sister. She is very high on my list of respected people, and I am looking so forward to meeting her some day. But, I'm thinking we might all need a little refresher on who exactly is "QUEEN OF THE OUTERS", so I'll just go and bump an old thread back to the surface for folks to review.
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Brandy... Have you considered that Danny Shelton is using you as a cover up?
Now, Crystal,
For us outside people that can only surmise some of these statements that know nothing of this inner "holler," are you now suggesting there could be "another, another woman" and he married Brandy to cover up?? Possibly in your post you suggest a layed back 2nd cousin..Layed back is my word to use. They would have to be layed back or nuts you know if that is for sure...The first Senario makes one surmise that Brandy just maybe covered up Danny "in the money pit". Ya know how it is when "people from the outside are looking in". Hmm, he could be cooked either way. OF course just going on your suggestions but again it seems you know the issues with authority of fact, If you got truth, pour it on. Sure wish the other man would step up to the plate. Wonder what is keeping him from doing so?? Especially since records show born out of wedlock. Is he deceived or stupid? Poor man! poor child, and poor future, the longer this goes on for those involved. It will get worse if not proven soon for the guilty. This all would have been nobodies business if the public money was not used. So here we are, some very angry at what has been done when innocent people sent their funds only to jolly with. You know cancer has to be cut out in order to survive. That is what you would be doing to present truth.
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Tinka... youre noy up to date on matters... Look at past posts...
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Re: Questions I wish I could ask Danny Shelton on CA
« Reply #444 on: March 18, 2009, 08:14:08 AM » Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would be easy, in my opinion, to get cold feet living in a bubble like 3ABN. Those SDA hollers can really become peculiar places. In one situation someone even started pursuing his own cousin...
Is this statement no longer up to date? So I only asked if this was another woman or don't tell me that would be the 2nd cousin. I only see what is posted and not in the circle and do not know the exact particulars like I realize other posters on here know much more detail on what woman is who. I just know who Brandy is by her picture and what was on the media, and documents. Just an outsider..Like I say I'm not in that holler.
And I do not believe you are sister as one of the posts claim !!! who ever that is... My thoughts are really who is in the holler of known facts....Didn't you realize that?? So if behind times, not up to date I only look at facts... So there is no one that determines what makes me lean one way or the other. I simply look at the posts and characters of those who are posting for truth. and the story seems to be unfolding. I am older, experienced, and read the best books ever written on character. And am sadly afraid that I do not live up to it either. Your last post clearly defines.....some reasoning for me and that is what matters..for me. It seems you have a task to do.
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Edited to remove offensive and inflammatory remarks. Ian, you best watch yourself. Why not keep your garbage spewing on your own garbage site??
BUT moving on, and to get back to my main question.
I am still wondering what happened to all Sister's posts about the ASI convention, and the entire thread with Sister's previous posts to Anyman about the other forum, ASI, her husband and the picture, and why they were moved or removed lately?
Is anyone here going to address this issue or answer the question?
That would be even more helpful in my opinion.
(the different size fonts are used for emphasis only)
That's all very special as usual "Sister", but of course you have been trying to out people since BSDA days while insisting you were like a ghost flitting around and witnessing all (NOT) and reporting the facts (NOT) and claiming it was impossible for you to be identified, (NOT)and endlessly laughing about that. Nevertheless you have been, id'd "Swiss Kris" and we know who you are also... along with your husband "Brother" .. so who's laughing now? :D
Apart from that, I would love to comply with your request for pictures, sister, but I would like to quote the previous posts when I do so to keep all in context. Isn't that understandable? The problem is though that ever since I mentioned the picture I can't seem to find certain posts and threads on this forum... I know for a fact I read some of them one day and even discussed this with others, but the next day I couldn't seem to find them again...
Do you happen to know where they have been moved to, or have a link to any of your previous posts about the ASI convention or even the thread where you and anyman were posting about this previously?
Actually any member could help and be of assistance here , if they know where those posts are, or can locate them.
Thanks,
ian
Pretty proud of yourself, aren't you Cindy Conard Ford?? The more people you and your little friends can out, the better you all feel about yourselves, huh? Well, get your kicks now, cuz I think your day is coming - yours and Steffen's in particular. By the way, how is your attorney friend Cindy Randall? Any idea why she was recently held in contempt of court? Will she be the one to handle your legal issues?
Do you know how ridiculous and unchristian your threats and this kinda post looks to others Snoopy, especially as next to sister you are the queen of the "outers"?
But moving on..
does this mean you don't know where the posts and threads are? or cannot provide a link to them? Or can't explain in a satisfactory manner to inquiring minds why they would have been removed at this late date?
You mean like how 3ABN and Danny Shelton threatened Gailon and Bob with legal action for so long? Is THAT the type of threat you are talking about as being ridiculous and unchristian Cindy? Well, here's news for you in case you have been under a rock for a while. 3ABN claims to be a CHRISTIAN MINISTRY! I do not! As a matter of fact, I was trying to turn my Christian experience around by going to 3ABN in the first place and volunteering hundreds of hours of my professional time! I am firmly one of those who qualifies under 3ABN's new mantra - BREAKING MENDED PEOPLE! And I can tell you right now it will be a cold day in you know where before I EVER volunteer for a supposed "Christian ministry" ever again! So, that's what 3ABN has done for me!
Now, as to your perspective on my "threat". You and your little friends Steffan, Sammy and several others are guilty of defamation per se, and I have already consulted with an internet defamation attorney who looked at your smut site as well as several posts here at AdventTalk and he thinks I have a good case!! He's just waiting for me to sign his contract, and I am trying to decide whether its worth it to have to deal with you in litigation for a period of time. I try to ignore your posts, but when I do happen to see one it usually just pushes me closer to signing that contract. So, stew on that for a while! And don't worry about trying to go back and edit stuff out, as I have been printing out hard copies of your garbage for some time now.
And, you think I am "queen of the outers" next to sister?? :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: First and foremost, thank you for even thinking of me in the same sentence as sister. She is very high on my list of respected people, and I am looking so forward to meeting her some day. But, I'm thinking we might all need a little refresher on who exactly is "QUEEN OF THE OUTERS", so I'll just go and bump an old thread back to the surface for folks to review.
edited to add bold text for empahasis
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Ian... Are you feelin' OK?
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Ian, why don't you just post on the "other" site, then we don't have to "listen" to your rantings. It really does get tiresome. :(
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Might ask Danny if he's gotten that test done yet?
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Wonder if Brandy's going to be able to handle that old guy and his prophetic claims much longer?
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Wonder if Brandy's going to be able to handle that old guy and his prophetic claims much longer?
Hmmm,
why would she want to get rid of money? presuming she knew all this when she started? That he was old of course.. Then again you never know until you bite the apple what lies underneath the surface that could be intolerable.
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How about because she knows that God doesn't honor marriages where a man dumps his wife and gets him a younger woman...
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How about because she knows that God doesn't honor marriages where a man dumps his wife and gets him a younger woman...
Hmm, guess she could repent, but she also knows she was the other woman; unless of course Danny would be telling the truth and just came on to a quickie relationship which I doubt.
Guide4Him, now really picked up on a real, reality clue. Surely DS would not slight one and make preference of the other stepdaughter, would he? But then was she the only one available at the time of introduction? That is how your sub conscience tells on ones self. Not that this is a true fact on this situation but 9-out of 10 this is why you listen and watch the words of people and discern (not judge) for your self truth and error. We are also counseled on patterns of people's character and how to DISCERN good from evil and IF we can not discern, we are lost as mostly we will be followers. It is amazing to watch the roads that many are on. It is easy for me to see as I started out with no sides to be on. Accusations, and more accusations with no proof shows in that person their own guilt. That is what was done to LS. IF the proof is not shown and kept back, wonder why?? Either there is guilt first syndrone or love and dismay is still in the air. or or or just plain too sick to know which side of the gates your on. It leans that way for me of which makes no difference to anyone else.
Just want the truth for the viewed , wasted, used, and thievery of funds from the innocent people that sacrificed as (DS) :rabbit: feeds the :horse: (sympathizers). This is just a little example on the inside of this particular "holler" of SDA's. Look what followers did to America!! I believe this time we slept in and it is too late for :usa:. Are we blessed or what from the last day messenger of events?? We are told and still run like mad dogs in a meat house. (laugh) might be exaggerating a little here) An innocent person would step aside, divulge in total cooperation and not to be a stumbling block for someone else even to settle issues right or wrong. But I am afraid that DS is not made from this kind of substance. Extravaganza! Extravaganza! and EGO! It all takes the "money pit" to feed the :horse:. Not sure we will find justice in this world anymore!! But payday is coming.
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Might ask Danny if he's gotten that test done yet?
What test? Is something wrong?
BC
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Might ask Danny if he's gotten that test done yet?
What test? Is something wrong?
BC
A paternity test for DS proving that Brandy's last child is not his! oh, yeah (smile)you must not have read months of posts. Maybe that is what is wrong with all 3abn. Some on here believe that and others do not. You will find all under the Paternity post
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AND Danny wants to have this done.. and when I posted that it was deleted within minutes, so how soon will I be banned for saying that? Itis 12:54 PST
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AND Danny wants to have this done.. and when I posted that it was deleted within minutes, so how soon will I be banned for saying that? Itis 12:54 PST
Stan, sometimes if we post in the wrong thread they move it. Click on you name and see if your message comes up elsewhere. I am still not familiar with all we are supposed to do in the rules. I keep trying too.
But don't you think that both fathers would be wise to get the test??
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Stan,
I do believe I read your post and it is I think on the Paternity Thread.
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IF it was moved, it was moved where I cannot view it. I have no problem with DS being asked, and he is willnig ot have the test done, but as far as the other, that should be up to the mother or the acclaimed father.
What if the child in question was/is watching this?
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IF it was moved, it was moved where I cannot view it. I have no problem with DS being asked, and he is willnig ot have the test done, but as far as the other, that should be up to the mother or the acclaimed father.
What if the child in question was/is watching this?
Stan, I merged your new thread into the existing thread entitled "Paternity Test". I am fairly certain you have been reading here for some time, but you must have missed the thread that talks about the existence of topics that we would like to keep restricted from the general public viewing, and how many posts a member needs to make to be able to view the semi-private threads at AT:
http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php/topic,660.0.html
If this in any way causes a problem for you please feel free to send me a PM.
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IF it was moved, it was moved where I cannot view it. I have no problem with DS being asked, and he is willnig ot have the test done, but as far as the other, that should be up to the mother or the acclaimed father.
What if the child in question was/is watching this?
IMO Questions from Crystal and from Tinka are allowed and answers get moved behind the wall Stan.
I am here to help you get there by logging enough posts.
Just answer my questions, and all will be fine.
1. How are you?
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IMO Questions from Crystal and from Tinka are allowed and answers get moved behind the wall Stan.
I am here to help you get there by logging enough posts.
Just answer my questions, and all will be fine.
1. How are you?
ADMIN HAT ON
Ian, you have violated Forum Rule #1. I am here to help you abide by the rules of this forum, so maybe you would like to take a couple of days to read back through them. In the meantime, why not take your "help" back to your own smut site - it certainly needs some... I'm quite certain Stan will be able to handle himself here without your help!!
ADMIN HAT OFF
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IF it was moved, it was moved where I cannot view it. I have no problem with DS being asked, and he is willnig ot have the test done, but as far as the other, that should be up to the mother or the acclaimed father.
What if the child in question was/is watching this?
IMO Questions from Crystal and from Tinka are allowed and answers get moved behind the wall Stan.
I am here to help you get there by logging enough posts.
Just answer my questions, and all will be fine.
1. How are you?
Ian, why don't you just do your standard copy and paste from here to your site and stan can see everything just fine, or is this not really about "getting stan behind the WALL"...He's a big boy, he knows how to do what he wants to just fine.
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IF it was moved, it was moved where I cannot view it. I have no problem with DS being asked, and he is willnig ot have the test done, but as far as the other, that should be up to the mother or the acclaimed father.
What if the child in question was/is watching this?
Well Stan,
As a mother of 6, grandmother of 14, and great grandmother of 4 an 8 year to 15 year old would be having a watchful eye on exactely what they were doing. We do have a responsibility to children but do not know your age to as the generations now that no longer fashions to busy ness but thrive to keep them intertained. (on their own) Hopefully her parents are smart enough not to bring on adult conversations of morbid info to an 8 year old. But then you do have parents trying to teach and rob their children of their youth by explaining adult birds and bees info and yes I am against that totally until each individual is ready. Just so you beat the info that is given by ill means from school and preditors. EGW said she never took her eyes off her children when others were around and they never ever spent the night unless she was in the room. That is the best we can do and that tells me the same ole problem was back then too.
Bill Gates only let his children have 1 hour per day for education or study only on computer... So far I cannot imagine letting an 8 year old on Advent talk. They would never be an SDA by the age of 10 (meaning reading this DS saga) In fact they might even be watching Star WARs or Trac what ever you call it. You got to admit Stan. IF evil was not there none of this would be. But it surfaced as all sin does. We cannot get around this. Proving is essential as eyes usually believe what they see.
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Might ask Danny if he's gotten that test done yet?
What test? Is something wrong?
BC
Cindy Conard Ford, you forgot to sign in under your other IP address when you posted this... Just so you know...
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The bulk of the discussion on this topic was moved to the more private area a couple of weeks back.
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EMMA - Thanks, am glad it was moved
SNOOPY - you are right I do come here, a few times a day I open up 72 sites at the same time in Safari, I do not always read everything on every site. I think firefox as the same option as well.
Am just not going to posts to make posts.. that would be weird...
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EMMA - Thanks, am glad it was moved
SNOOPY - you are right I do come here, a few times a day I open up 72 sites at the same time in Safari, I do not always read everything on every site. I think firefox as the same option as well.
Am just not going to posts to make posts.. that would be weird...
Glad to hear that, Stan. I thought you were above posting just to post... Welcome to AdventTalk, by the way. I am sure you will soon gain access to the semi-private threads.
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Might ask Danny if he thinks it's right for a man to divorce his wife without biblical grounds then marry a younger woman?
Might ask him if he sincerely believes that God honors and blesses that type of union?
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Might ask Danny if he thinks it's right for a man to divorce his wife without biblical grounds then marry a younger woman?
Might ask him if he sincerely believes that God honors and blesses that type of union?
Are you really sure DS would even know the difference (if asked) between right and wrong? If he knew wrong, none of this would have happened. He surmised, he was paranoid already, he accused, guilty of fraudlent use of funds, hiding funds, extravaganza, deceivement to workers, a father but not to Linda's child and I imagine you have a reason for his liking younger woman, as 2nd cousin is mentioned, not sure if I remember in posts if 2nd cousin spoke up as fact or not? so that remains unsure (IF you ask me that is also a pedophile, but your not asking me)and then I did look up other posts as you think that Brandy is just being used for him to be :rabbit: around.
I am wondering if someone on here can balance the scales in a different direction? So far I do not think that anyone can, other then what DS in his own fabrication of reasoning-that in sickness makes him justified. Only his views and persuasions set this mess on fire while others have natural instinct to put it out for 2 different reasons. Other then just talk can anyone produce a list of the misdeeds of LS? and I do not mean heresay. I am afraid it might be hopeless to ask DS anything. IF there are documents, why would they not be shown?????? or are we waiting for something "very special!!" dy-na-miteHmm, from what side??
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Does anyone know if anyone responded to my posts? I would really like to hear/read if ANYONE has been told by Danny that he would not co-operate. If the person who did whatever to have him agree to have it videoed in their presence cannot go there, lets chip together and fly him there.
Would like to see this brought to a rest, or exposed.
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Does anyone know if anyone responded to my posts? I would really like to hear/read if ANYONE has been told by Danny that he would not co-operate. If the person who did whatever to have him agree to have it videoed in their presence cannot go there, lets chip together and fly him there.
Would like to see this brought to a rest, or exposed.
Stan, when you go to post look at the top left in small letters, "Advent talk" click on that and go clear to the bottom of topics and you will see all that has been posted and I think yours might be in "Paternity" thread. Click on the topics and not the names because the names could be in any thread. It took me a while too because I never did this before and was really lost on how it all worked. Little by little it finally clicks. I have been watching your posts as I feel you want truth too. Hopefully.
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Hi Tinka
I think that will work after I get access to the private forum...
Thanks for your concern..
Stan
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Yes, Stan, it is there. Post a few more times and you will have access.
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Thanks... will have to think of something to say..
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Thanks... will have to think of something to say..
At sundry times I have intgerpreted CA as Dlub Adventist, California, and Canada. Does all of this apply to you? Seems like you have moved around?
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I have used that interchangeable at times. My screen name on some technical sites is StanCA
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Stan works in the BC Conference.
Stan takes any side just to antagonize and stir up the debate...
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Really??
And who hides behind the name Chrystal? Or is that your real name?
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Just one more post, Stan, and you're in, unless someone has changed it.
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Just one more? That's it?
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Have you checked to see if that is it, Stan ? :)
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Yes I can see that, thanks!! Just am having a time problem..
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Danny: Does 3ABN encourage men to leave their wives if they are not satisfied or not getting along with them? Does 3ABN encourage divorce for grounds that are not Biblical?
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I haven't visited AT for a long time, but Johann just told me that Stan was posting here. So I thought I'd take a look. And this is one post I absolutely have to respond to!
Stan works in the BC Conference.
Stan takes any side just to antagonize and stir up the debate...
Yes, Stan works in the BC Conference, so far, so good ..
But you really don't know Stan if you say that Stan does anything "just to antagonize"!
To me it looks more like Stan is loyal to his friends and prefers to think the best of them -- putting the best interpretation on any actions that could be interpreted one way or another. (It's probably something we should all practice.)
I believe Stan considers Dan Shelton a friend. He also said he liked Linda. There's just one little problem -- and that is if you choose to believe all that Dan said about Linda, it's not putting the best interpretation on her actions. So sometimes one has to make choices of whom to believe.
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There's just one little problem -- and that is if you choose to believe all that Dan said about Linda, it's not putting the best interpretation on her actions. So sometimes one has to make choices of whom to believe.
That is why you do not believe heresay ever. Just the facts proven beyond a shadow of doubt. The American way. The rest is just what ever you like to hear best....on what ever or where ever the green is growing or looking better. So far unless deceitful, Stan seems to be right up front. I am not reading any arrogance in his posting at all like some. In fact I sorta got a feeling of a peacemaker. Who knows maybe wrong again.......
Well, looks like I did not do it right again on the quote.
Edit note: I fixed it for you, tinka. You were close! Somehow you only had "[quo" at the beginning of the quote so the software didn't recognize it as a quote. Hope that helps... :wave:
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There's just one little problem -- and that is if you choose to believe all that Dan said about Linda, it's not putting the best interpretation on her actions. So sometimes one has to make choices of whom to believe.
That is why you do not believe heresay ever. Just the facts proven beyond a shadow of doubt. The American way.
That means, of course, that we don't believe any of the things the 3ABN board has implied about Linda nor the nasty things Dan has written about Linda (no hearsay, they're documented in emails) nor the nasty things others have written/implied about Linda here.
Suits me fine. :)
Of course, that also means that most posts on this board shouldn't be here. Only the factual evidence should remain, preferably without interpretive comment. You know, facts such as that Dan Shelton divorced his wife without biblical reason and took up with a younger model not so much later, boasting how much "prettier" she was than Linda. (documented) And that while he himself clearly and publicly did not live according to the Ten Commandments, he felt free to author a book on the subject and preach on the subject.
That reminds me a bit of a certain religious sect in Christ's day.
And all the while, Linda is still single... Makes one think. .. :dunno:
But there really is not a lot to discuss, is there?
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Inga,
So what do you see?? You see facts, as most people do not go around with blinders on to see that Extravaganza was obvious, and so is adultery! As everyone can see the results of total mess. Since when does not one sin spread its fingers into all situations and directions. Can anyone deny this has happened? This is not one of the accidental sins to be sort of hid. This all was intentional deliberate sin, weak, no discipline, false sermons and false yak on 3abn while all behind the scenes, they were just countin the money. This may be what you call surmising but the rash all came out for the visible disease to see. or has this just been a dream of a nightmare. Has anyone fooled theirselves this would always be hid and just keep shelveling the goods to the perp. I know that Washington felt they can get away too with most Ignorant people in America. Lets just see how ignorant most America really is. Maybe they will stand again as they discover they have been robbed too. Although EGW says just before the coming nothing will be stable. Could he by chance start with his own people????? I think so. :usa:
Thank you again Snoopy for fixing, I have to be more careful and see now how I make the mistake. Thanks
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There's just one little problem -- and that is if you choose to believe all that Dan said about Linda, it's not putting the best interpretation on her actions. So sometimes one has to make choices of whom to believe.
That is why you do not believe heresay ever. Just the facts proven beyond a shadow of doubt. The American way.
That means, of course, that we don't believe any of the things the 3ABN board has implied about Linda nor the nasty things Dan has written about Linda (no hearsay, they're documented in emails) nor the nasty things others have written/implied about Linda here.
Suits me fine. :)
Of course, that also means that most posts on this board shouldn't be here. Only the factual evidence should remain, preferably without interpretive comment. You know, facts such as that Dan Shelton divorced his wife without biblical reason and took up with a younger model not so much later, boasting how much "prettier" she was than Linda. (documented) And that while he himself clearly and publicly did not live according to the Ten Commandments, he felt free to author a book on the subject and preach on the subject.
That reminds me a bit of a certain religious sect in Christ's day.
And all the while, Linda is still single... Makes one think. .. :dunno:
But there really is not a lot to discuss, is there?
Inga, produce your documentation that "Dan Shelton divorced his wife without biblical reason" and your evidence that he "did not live according to the Ten commandments" ??? Of course you don't have any documentation. Then don't say it unless you have documentation to back it up.
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Based on what Danny and Walt have said, Danny didn't have biblical grounds to divorce Linda.
Of course, I would understand if you have trouble believing them.
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Personally, I don't pay too much attention to someone hiding behind a screen name demanding about "proof" and "documentation."
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Personally, I don't pay too much attention to someone hiding behind a screen name demanding about "proof" and "documentation."
Now isn't that a special thought!! Just go away "proof" so the money can keep a coming and the :horse: keeps a runnin!!!!
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THAT is a lie Pickle. Present your documentation--CLEAR documentation.
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THAT is a lie Pickle. Present your documentation--CLEAR documentation.
It should first be clear what you are talkiing about - or is that just sommething abstract?
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Based on what Danny and Walt have said, Danny didn't have biblical grounds to divorce Linda.
Of course, I would understand if you have trouble believing them.
It should be quite clear what I'm talking about Johann. Pickles last post: POST YOUR DOCUMENTATION for what you said. Danny has NOT said that and neither has Dr. Walt.
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Junebug, I already posted where Walt said that he had never had evidence whereby to accuse Linda of adultery. And others posted that before me.
Danny stated after the divorce that he was unsure whether Linda had committed adultery. Thus, he acknowledged that at the time of his divorce, he couldn't prove that she had. I posted that long ago.
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Based on what Danny and Walt have said, Danny didn't have biblical grounds to divorce Linda.
Of course, I would understand if you have trouble believing them.
It should be quite clear what I'm talking about Johann. Pickles last post: POST YOUR DOCUMENTATION for what you said. Danny has NOT said that and neither has Dr. Walt.
No, Junebug. It was NOT clear what you were talking about because you failed to use the quote feature to show what post you were responding to. Take a deep breath - settle down...
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Personally, I don't pay too much attention to someone hiding behind a screen name demanding about "proof" and "documentation."
Now isn't that a special thought!! Just go away "proof" so the money can keep a coming and the :horse: keeps a runnin!!!!
Bob and Gailon and all --already long time ago gave their proof in documents and e-mails. Where are the hidden ones is what I have been asking and talking about? or their proof they do not show? Again, I have not seen any posts itemizing accusations against Linda....Where is the proof for just one. All this talk and no one shows us outsiders any different.
Linda must be a jewel, because if it came to my children being on the outs with father or step father I would be like a wet hen and he and I would have parted. Believe me I would have had more in store that he would have ended up hairless from figuring out my next move on him. Sorry, guess I should not have talked so brave on here. but was being truthful of my disposition about children as none had a choice or asked to be brought into this world. The parents are the ones that form their pattern of just how they will survive this life. Lucky they had a good mother lilke I did.
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Biblical grounds or not, the known and undeniable fact is that Danny Shelton and Linda Shelton are divorced, Linda Shelton is not married again, whereas Danny Shelton is the one who got married again to a much younger person very soon after the divorce was finalized. Those are facts that do not require any documentation.
The "biblical grounds" of Linda Shelton having committed adultery against Danny Shelton is denied by Linda Shelton, therefore, this one doesn't come under the same level of a undeniable fact, as the divorce of Danny and Linda and the subsequent remarriage of Danny Shelton to a much younger person does, but Danny Shelton's quick and sudden remarriage right after the divorce being finalized does and has raised eyebrows in regards to the "biblical grounds" aspect of the divorce.
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Biblical grounds or not, the known and undeniable fact is that Danny Shelton and Linda Shelton are divorced, Linda Shelton is not married again, whereas Danny Shelton is the one who got married again to a much younger person very soon after the divorce was finalized. Those are facts that do not require any documentation.
The "biblical grounds" of Linda Shelton having committed adultery against Danny Shelton is denied by Linda Shelton, therefore, this one doesn't come under the same level of a undeniable fact, as the divorce of Danny and Linda and the subsequent remarriage of Danny Shelton to a much younger person does, but Danny Shelton's quick and sudden remarriage right after the divorce being finalized does and has raised eyebrows in regards to the "biblical grounds" aspect of the divorce.
Daryl,
Agreed. Danny and Linda both consented to a divorce for whatever reasons.... and one is remarried and one is not, for whatever reasons...
But ---
are you really honestly saying that a divorce in June of '04 and a remarriage in March of '06 causes you to raise your eyebrows, or indicates adultery to you --or that the difference in ages does so?
I hope not. I am not surprised that others here see nothing wrong with that kind of surmising, as they specialize in it, but surely you need something in addition to that?
Letters, phonecalls, meetings, travels, etc...
Have you even heard about any of that, or seen it documented?
NO... at least to the second.
Wake up plz.
..Ian
edited to correct dates among other things.
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I'm tired of the games here, and Crystal's and Tinka's continuing posts about this.
Does anybody know why Linda's friend, Dr Day has not yet scheduled or shown up to pay for and document Danny's tests despite promising to do so, and to record it all and then make it public? After even agreeing to pay him money if those tests are negative -- after reminding him they have a binding agreement?
I know that he is waiting, and that he has not backed out, as do all who are "in the know.."
So let's get real here.
Others are waiting also....
What's really happening?
..ian
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I'm tired of the games here, and Crystal's and Tinka's continuing posts about this.
Does anybody know why Linda's friend, Dr Day has not yet scheduled or shown up to pay for and document Danny's tests despite promising to do so, and to record it all and then make it public? After even agreeing to pay him money if those tests are negative -- after reminding him they have a binding agreement?
I know that he is waiting, and that he has not backed out, as do all who are "in the know.."
So let's get real here.
Others are waiting also....
What's really happening?
..ian
How can you not know what's really happening if you and others are "in the know"? Seems like if you were really "in the know" then you would know...?? So, if you really do not know, then I guess you are not really "in the know" after all.
I know someone who knows, and I am quite sure you know someone who knows, so maybe that's all who really need to know, after all...
Toodles...
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I'm tired of the games here, and Crystal's and Tinka's continuing posts about this.
Does anybody know why Linda's friend, Dr Day has not yet scheduled or shown up to pay for and document Danny's tests despite promising to do so, and to record it all and then make it public? After even agreeing to pay him money if those tests are negative -- after reminding him they have a binding agreement?
I know that he is waiting, and that he has not backed out, as do all who are "in the know.."
So let's get real here.
Others are waiting also....
What's really happening?
..ian
How can you not know what's really happening if you and others are "in the know"? Seems like if you were really "in the know" then you would know...?? So, if you really do not know, then I guess you are not really "in the know" after all.
I know someone who knows, and I am quite sure you know someone who knows, so maybe that's all who really need to know, after all...
Toodles...
I know what is happening. I am asking that others who do , speak up honestly and become accountable instead of allowing this to continue, Snoopy.
Your posts on this topic are not helpful or informative. They raise no valid or pertinent questions leading to the truth, nor provide any answers to those seeking that.
They are just more babble and confusion...
That of course is my personal opinion, others reading here are free to form their own...
peace..
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Letters, phonecalls, meetings, travels, etc...
Have you even heard about any of that, or seen it documented?
NO... at least to the second.
Wake up plz.
..Ian
edited to correct dates among other things.
We have heard and seen the rumors about Linda doing that and we have seen it said that the proof was there, but I have never seen any documentation or proof of it. Not one shred of documentation or proof. Does it exist? I'm starting to doubt it. Stating that there is proof can be a lie. Providing is another thing. Can any of you actually provide it, or will you just keep saying that it is there? To what I have seen, so far everything DS and 3abn have had against Linda is words and no more. Can you break that mold and actually give proof of it Ian?
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I'm tired of the games here, and Crystal's and Tinka's continuing posts about this.
Does anybody know why Linda's friend, Dr Day has not yet scheduled or shown up to pay for and document Danny's tests despite promising to do so, and to record it all and then make it public? After even agreeing to pay him money if those tests are negative -- after reminding him they have a binding agreement?
I know that he is waiting, and that he has not backed out, as do all who are "in the know.."
So let's get real here.
Others are waiting also....
What's really happening?
..ian
How can you not know what's really happening if you and others are "in the know"? Seems like if you were really "in the know" then you would know...?? So, if you really do not know, then I guess you are not really "in the know" after all.
I know someone who knows, and I am quite sure you know someone who knows, so maybe that's all who really need to know, after all...
Toodles...
I know what is happening. I am asking that others who do , speak up honestly and become accountable instead of allowing this to continue, Snoopy.
Your posts on this topic are not helpful or informative. They raise no valid or pertinent questions leading to the truth, nor provide any answers to those seeking that.
They are just more babble and confusion...
That of course is my personal opinion, others reading here are free to form their own...
peace..
You sound confused, Cindy. First you don't know what is happening...then you do know... Why not tell everyone what is happening, since you know...
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Ian, You keep demanding documentation, yet you don't provide any of your own to prove the allegations and rumors you spread about Linda. Can live up to your own demands?
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Letters, phonecalls, meetings, travels, etc...
Have you even heard about any of that, or seen it documented?
NO... at least to the second.
Wake up plz.
..Ian
edited to correct dates among other things.
We have heard and seen the rumors about Linda doing that and we have seen it said that the proof was there, but I have never seen any documentation or proof of it. Not one shred of documentation or proof. Does it exist? I'm starting to doubt it. Stating that there is proof can be a lie. Providing is another thing. Can any of you actually provide it, or will you just keep saying that it is there? To what I have seen, so far everything DS and 3abn have had against Linda is words and no more. Can you break that mold and actually give proof of it Ian?
George,
I agree proof is always needed.
You may not have noticed but this thread is not about Linda...
It's about Danny, and rumors about him...
Therefore the proof needs to be provided here against him.
I also believe no matter what one believes, two wrongs don't ever make a right, and I believe we all need to heed Jesus's warning.
"Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy."
I have the impression from your posts that you agree with those standards also...
..ian
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Letters, phonecalls, meetings, travels, etc...
Have you even heard about any of that, or seen it documented?
NO... at least to the second.
Wake up plz.
..Ian
edited to correct dates among other things.
We have heard and seen the rumors about Linda doing that and we have seen it said that the proof was there, but I have never seen any documentation or proof of it. Not one shred of documentation or proof. Does it exist? I'm starting to doubt it. Stating that there is proof can be a lie. Providing is another thing. Can any of you actually provide it, or will you just keep saying that it is there? To what I have seen, so far everything DS and 3abn have had against Linda is words and no more. Can you break that mold and actually give proof of it Ian?
George,
I agree proof is always needed.
You may not have noticed but this thread is not about Linda...
It's about Danny, and rumors about him...
Therefore the proof needs to be provided here against him.
I also believe no matter what one believes, two wrongs don't ever make a right, and I believe we all need to heed Jesus's warning.
"Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy."
I have the impression from your posts that you agree with those standards also...
..ian
Yes, I agree with those standards. Do you? I figured that you would try to avoid what I asked and you didn't disappoint. Can you, and will you provide the proofs that you demand of others in the accusations that you and your cohorts have made? I am beginning to doubt that you can. But, I could be wrong. I would be more than gratified to be proven wrong.
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You may not have noticed but this thread is not about Linda...
It's about Danny, and rumors about him...
Therefore the proof needs to be provided here against him.
Well that is oh so interesting. Why didn't the same standard apply to Linda? How two-faced!! Your statement can just as easily read this way:
"It's about Linda, and rumors about her...
Therefore the proof needs to be provided here against her."
Linda did not have a CHANCE against 3ABN's resources, and here you are defending poor little abused Danny... Hey! I have some oceanfront property for sale in Arizona - interested??
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Ian, You keep demanding documentation, yet you don't provide any of your own to prove the allegations and rumors you spread about Linda. Can live up to your own demands?
First let me say if YOU want to talk about Linda or YOU want to make her the issue then YOU probably need to make a new topic/thread in this forum to do so. :)
I honestly feel that much of this is not the public's business, but once it's brought up publicly it can and should be replied to publicly, if it is false or wrong, so that others aren't confused or decieved.
In that context, I am not aware that I have spread any rumors or accusations about Linda, nor even addressed anything regarding her which was not in a direct response to things about her which the accusers of 3abn had not posted or published first.
If I am wrong, I m sure you can provide some kind of documentation to support your claim. ( in another topic)
I would appreciate it.
..ian
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Letters, phonecalls, meetings, travels, etc...
Have you even heard about any of that, or seen it documented?
NO... at least to the second.
Wake up plz.
..Ian
edited to correct dates among other things.
We have heard and seen the rumors about Linda doing that and we have seen it said that the proof was there, but I have never seen any documentation or proof of it. Not one shred of documentation or proof. Does it exist? I'm starting to doubt it. Stating that there is proof can be a lie. Providing is another thing. Can any of you actually provide it, or will you just keep saying that it is there? To what I have seen, so far everything DS and 3abn have had against Linda is words and no more. Can you break that mold and actually give proof of it Ian?
George,
I agree proof is always needed.
You may not have noticed but this thread is not about Linda...
It's about Danny, and rumors about him...
Therefore the proof needs to be provided here against him.
I also believe no matter what one believes, two wrongs don't ever make a right, and I believe we all need to heed Jesus's warning.
"Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy."
I have the impression from your posts that you agree with those standards also...
..ian
Yes, I agree with those standards. Do you? I figured that you would try to avoid what I asked and you didn't disappoint. Can you, and will you provide the proofs that you demand of others in the accusations that you and your cohorts have made? I am beginning to doubt that you can. But, I could be wrong. I would be more than gratified to be proven wrong.
Again, this thread I am posting in is about Danny. You are all making the accusations.... It is not about Linda, nor am I, nor do I want to be, her accuser...
Don't come crying hypocrite here or making rules and standards here for me which you and others are not following here. And do not make accusations regarding other topics if you can't and won't back it up... (with documentation, quotes and links)
This again appears to me to be a waste of time, unless it helps readers recognize the junk going on here.
I'm sorry, but I think I am done here in this dialog, at least with you and Snoopy.
Anyone else who has ontopic and sincere questions I will do my best to address.
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Ian, You keep demanding documentation, yet you don't provide any of your own to prove the allegations and rumors you spread about Linda. Can live up to your own demands?
First let me say if YOU want to talk about Linda or YOU want to make her the issue then YOU probably need to make a new topic/thread in this forum to do so. :)
I honestly feel that much of this is not the public's business, but once it's brought up publicly it can and should be replied to publicly, if it is false or wrong, so that others aren't confused or decieved.
In that context, I am not aware that I have spread any rumors or accusations about Linda, nor even addressed anything regarding her which was not in a direct response to things about her which the accusers of 3abn posted or published first.
If I am wrong, I m sure you can provide some kind of documentation to support your claim. ( in another topic)
I would appreciate it.
..ian
OK Ian, you need to dial it back a couple of notches and lose the attitude. Might I remind you that George was simply responding to YOUR post where you were commenting on Danny's and Linda's divorce. It doesn't take rocket science to expect questions/comments about one's ex-spouse as relevant discussion...
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Letters, phonecalls, meetings, travels, etc...
Have you even heard about any of that, or seen it documented?
NO... at least to the second.
Wake up plz.
..Ian
edited to correct dates among other things.
We have heard and seen the rumors about Linda doing that and we have seen it said that the proof was there, but I have never seen any documentation or proof of it. Not one shred of documentation or proof. Does it exist? I'm starting to doubt it. Stating that there is proof can be a lie. Providing is another thing. Can any of you actually provide it, or will you just keep saying that it is there? To what I have seen, so far everything DS and 3abn have had against Linda is words and no more. Can you break that mold and actually give proof of it Ian?
George,
I agree proof is always needed.
You may not have noticed but this thread is not about Linda...
It's about Danny, and rumors about him...
Therefore the proof needs to be provided here against him.
I also believe no matter what one believes, two wrongs don't ever make a right, and I believe we all need to heed Jesus's warning.
"Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy."
I have the impression from your posts that you agree with those standards also...
..ian
Yes, I agree with those standards. Do you? I figured that you would try to avoid what I asked and you didn't disappoint. Can you, and will you provide the proofs that you demand of others in the accusations that you and your cohorts have made? I am beginning to doubt that you can. But, I could be wrong. I would be more than gratified to be proven wrong.
Again, this thread I am posting in is about Danny. You are all making the accusations.... It is not about Linda, nor am I, nor do I want to be, her accuser...
Don't come crying hypocrite here or making rules and standards here for me which you and others are not following here. And do not make accusations regarding other topics you can't and won't back up...
This again appears to me to be a waste of time, unless it helps readers recognize the junk going on here.
I'm sorry, but I think I am done here in this dialog.
I thought that you might be done here in this dialog as you are obviously unable to provide what you demand. You don't want me to "cry hypocrite" but I do, because it fits. Do not presume to throw rocks when you are living in a glass house. When you are able and willing to give what you demand of others, my accusations of hypocrisy against you will cease. Until then I stand firmly by them.
And Ian, it is funny that you of all people should presume to demand that anyone refrain from making accusations that they cannot back up. You are back-pedalling very quickly when documented proofs of Danny's verbal claims are demanded. Interesting.
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Despite what is perceived to be wrong with me, etc, and lest anyone become confused about who and what the topic has been...
I'm tired of the games here, and Crystal's and Tinka's continuing posts about this.
Does anybody know why Linda's friend, Dr Day has not yet scheduled or shown up to pay for and document Danny's tests despite promising to do so, and to record it all and then make it public? After even agreeing to pay him money if those tests are negative -- after reminding him they have a binding agreement?
I know that he is waiting, and that he has not backed out, as do all who are "in the know.."
So let's get real here.
Others are waiting also....
What's really happening?
..ian
good night all ...
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I thought you might run away and I was right. The demands I have made are obviously beyond what you can fulfill. That is sad and unfortunate. You will not be the one to decide the evolution of the topics on this site. That will be up to us, the administrators here. If you are unable to deal with the questions other than by trying to say that they are not on subject, that says an awful lot about the credibility of your statements and assertions. Your avoidance of my questions is very telling as to what the unspoken answers are, and I am sure that the readers are fully aware of that.
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Despite what is perceived to be wrong with me, etc, and lest anyone become confused about who and what the topic has been...
I'm tired of the games here, and Crystal's and Tinka's continuing posts about this.
Does anybody know why Linda's friend, Dr Day has not yet scheduled or shown up to pay for and document Danny's tests despite promising to do so, and to record it all and then make it public? After even agreeing to pay him money if those tests are negative -- after reminding him they have a binding agreement?
I know that he is waiting, and that he has not backed out, as do all who are "in the know.."
So let's get real here.
Others are waiting also....
What's really happening?
..ian
good night all ...
Btw, Ian, you may recall that I split that topic away and said that there would no more discussion of it except on the PRIVATE thread I assigned it to. You will confine your comments on that topic to its assigned thread or I will give you a VERY lengthy (if not permanent) vacation from AT. Furthermore, I WILL permanently ban any and all identities you attempt to use in your deceptive and lying efforts to circumvent such a ban, as you have already done. I, as an administrator here, will continue to try protecting small children from you and your attempts to make public the discussions of question of their parentage, Ian. Shame on you!
Capiche?
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Tinka responses in red as outsider's view of understanding of visable actions and presented documents.
whether anyone is sick and tired of beating off questions of facts is irrelevant
Biblical grounds or not, the known and undeniable fact is that Danny Shelton and Linda Shelton are divorced, Linda Shelton is not married again, whereas Danny Shelton is the one who got married again to a much younger person very soon after the divorce was finalized. Those are facts that do not require any documentation.
The "biblical grounds" of Linda Shelton having committed adultery against Danny Shelton is denied by Linda Shelton, therefore, this one doesn't come under the same level of a undeniable fact, as the divorce of Danny and Linda and the subsequent remarriage of Danny Shelton to a much younger person does, but Danny Shelton's quick and sudden remarriage right after the divorce being finalized does and has raised eyebrows in regards to the "biblical grounds" aspect of the divorce.
Daryl,
Agreed. Danny and Linda both consented to a divorce for whatever reasons.... and one is remarried and one is not, for whatever reasons... the word consented here is false. The understanding and facts to be used in right context is " under stress, duress, false accusations from paranoia provides beyond doubt a "forced consented" divorce! a seared mind will not weight the honest conditions here.
But ---
are you really honestly saying that a divorce in June of '04 and a remarriage in March of '06 causes you to raise your eyebrows, or indicates adultery to you --or that the difference in ages does so? You are indicating here that you are 100% sure that Danny was not :rabbit: in and out of the sack during those dates and now you have denied our "inspired counsel" EGW about age difference to the extreme and then of course the Word telling us to "shun the appearance of evil". But you are even denying the word "appearance". In our day and time we use the expression of "raised eyebrows" Where is your ability to "discern between good and evil. According to scripture that is the only way that we will be judged on how we used "Discernment". So far your batting "0"
I hope not. I am not surprised that others here see nothing wrong with that kind of surmising, as they specialize in it, but surely you need something in addition to that? The surmising by me and others are attempts of questions to open your mind to balanced actions caused by false accusations. The surmising is presented to sympathizers that are covering sin and facts.
Letters, phonecalls, meetings, travels, etc...
You convinced me that you have documentation that all Linda's e-mails have been cut out and not shown and DS just won't show it all
Have you even heard about any of that, or seen it documented?
Yes, In private e-mails.........Now show me!! Make my day. You have seen it, you have it according per say.
NO... at least to the second. Back up your details of e-mails
Wake up plz. So we all can be standing on the same shore. With love Tinka
..Ian
edited to correct dates among other things.
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I'm tired of the games here, and Crystal's and Tinka's continuing posts about this.
You are not tired of the Games with the condoning of "betting and gambling" of big money for proof of adultry. It was NOT the GAME when someone offered to get it done but the evil part came in with the doubling and betting of money to disprove.
Now I would understand in discerment that the Dr. might have second thoughts of being a part of Danny's betting game. It takes two to play with that sort of reply coming from DS
Does anybody know why Linda's friend, Dr Day has not yet scheduled or shown up to pay for and document Danny's tests despite promising to do so, and to record it all and then make it public? After even agreeing to pay him money if those tests are negative -- after reminding him they have a binding agreement? this Ian is your condoning part agreement or no agreement
I know that he is waiting, (for money to tell the truth?????) and that he has not backed out, (why should he??? if neg results) (if positive, $20,000 maybe all he will have left) smile as do all who are "in the know.." this is only excuses to delay the truth. What was the problem of just going to health department for starters. DS has big money to prove his own responsibilities of innocence and the appearances of evil for the DNA. You stated it, DS loves the game better.
So let's get real here.
You cannot change facts of reality so shall we all be followers of Pied Piper??
Others are waiting also.... for truth
What's really happening? The sifting time!
..ian
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But ---
are you really honestly saying that a divorce in June of '04 and a remarriage in March of '06 causes you to raise your eyebrows, or indicates adultery to you --or that the difference in ages does so?
It's not that simple.
First of all, Danny started rearranging his business affairs to exclude Linda by around April 2003. Why?
Second, Danny was involved with Brandy before his remarriage, though he denied it.
So we ought to nail down the earliest date Danny definitely had a girlfriend. The closer one gets to the divorce with that date, the more suspicious it becomes.
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I honestly feel that much of this is not the public's business, ....
If Danny told the truth, then Danny disagrees with you.
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Ian, You keep demanding documentation, yet you don't provide any of your own to prove the allegations and rumors you spread about Linda. Can live up to your own demands?
First let me say if YOU want to talk about Linda or YOU want to make her the issue then YOU probably need to make a new topic/thread in this forum to do so. :)
I honestly feel that much of this is not the public's business, but once it's brought up publicly it can and should be replied to publicly, if it is false or wrong, so that others aren't confused or decieved.
In that context, I am not aware that I have spread any rumors or accusations about Linda, nor even addressed anything regarding her which was not in a direct response to things about her which the accusers of 3abn had not posted or published first.
If I am wrong, I m sure you can provide some kind of documentation to support your claim. ( in another topic)
I would appreciate it.
..ian
ADMIN HAT ON
You know Cindy, one of your less intelligent moves was to come along after the fact and edit out an admin red hat warning! Your audacity is somewhwat amusing. As I said earlier, you can not and will not dictate the direction of a discussion on this forum!! This thread is about questions for Danny, and his divorce and ex-wife are entirely relevant. You will NOT throw the "off topic" card around just because you don't like someone's anwer to your demands. So, you say your done here?? Yes, you are! At least for a couple of days!! Capiche?? Toodles!!
ADMIN HAT OFF
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I'm tired of the games here, and Crystal's and Tinka's continuing posts about this.
Need to make my self more clear on what I meant on this (if positive, $20,000 maybe all he will have left) smile
$20,000 maybe all he has left to give to keep the bet!!
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The divorce in Guam was final in June, '04 but then Linda contested it in IL, correct? Could DS have remarried during that time or did he have to wait for an answer from the IL court. If he had to wait then is it possible that that is the reason for the time period between divorce and remarriage?
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Ian, You keep demanding documentation, yet you don't provide any of your own to prove the allegations and rumors you spread about Linda. Can live up to your own demands?
First let me say if YOU want to talk about Linda or YOU want to make her the issue then YOU probably need to make a new topic/thread in this forum to do so. :)
I honestly feel that much of this is not the public's business, but once it's brought up publicly it can and should be replied to publicly, if it is false or wrong, so that others aren't confused or decieved.
In that context, I am not aware that I have spread any rumors or accusations about Linda, nor even addressed anything regarding her which was not in a direct response to things about her which the accusers of 3abn had not posted or published first.
If I am wrong, I m sure you can provide some kind of documentation to support your claim. ( in another topic)
I would appreciate it.
..ian
ADMIN HAT ON
You know Cindy, one of your less intelligent moves was to come along after the fact and edit out an admin red hat warning! Your audacity is somewhwat amusing. As I said earlier, you can not and will not dictate the direction of a discussion on this forum!! This thread is about questions for Danny, and his divorce and ex-wife are entirely relevant. You will NOT throw the "off topic" card around just because you don't like someone's anwer to your demands. So, you say your done here?? Yes, you are! At least for a couple of days!! Capiche?? Toodles!!
ADMIN HAT OFF
Cindy,
I owe you an apology with regard to the alleged editing of my red hat warning last night. A bit of research shows that you and I were editing your post at the same time. However, I posted my edit only a minute or so ahead of you so when you posted your edit it overrode my edit which apparently you never saw.
Snoopy
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You know, Bob, I do agree with you that Danny was more than possibly in a relationship with Brandy before the end of his marriage, No proof, but things just don't look right, and I seldom make such statement and never worng when I do.
That being said, what good is it almost five years down the road? He is now married to Brandy, to divorce her would make the situation no better, just a bigger mess. So at this point, he did it, and seems to have gotten away with it, but we all know that Danny is answerable to God for his sins just like everyone else. It makes absolutely no sense to beat this dead horse nailing down all these timelines. Danny will never tell you if he and Brandy were having an affair. He has got his story and he is sticking to it, lie, though it may be. What can you do? GC is not going to do a thing about, as you already see. I was all for finding the truth about someone who is so often the face of adventism to many, but now it is just obsessive to still try worry about this. It's done, and we don't know that Danny and Brandy have not asked forgiveness(if nexcessary) and received that forgivess from God(at which time we know that He remembers them no more, casts them into the depths of the sea, as far as the east is from the west, etc.), None of us need to go scuba diving to dig them up. Let it go!
But ---
are you really honestly saying that a divorce in June of '04 and a remarriage in March of '06 causes you to raise your eyebrows, or indicates adultery to you --or that the difference in ages does so?
It's not that simple.
First of all, Danny started rearranging his business affairs to exclude Linda by around April 2003. Why?
Second, Danny was involved with Brandy before his remarriage, though he denied it.
So we ought to nail down the earliest date Danny definitely had a girlfriend. The closer one gets to the divorce with that date, the more suspicious it becomes.
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You know, Bob, I do agree with you that Danny was more than possibly in a relationship with Brandy before the end of his marriage, No proof, but things just don't look right, and I seldom make such statement and never worng when I do.
That being said, what good is it almost five years down the road? He is now married to Brandy, to divorce her would make the situation no better, just a bigger mess. So at this point, he did it, and seems to have gotten away with it, but we all know that Danny is answerable to God for his sins just like everyone else. It makes absolutely no sense to beat this dead horse nailing down all these timelines. Danny will never tell you if he and Brandy were having an affair. He has got his story and he is sticking to it, lie, though it may be. What can you do? GC is not going to do a thing about, as you already see. I was all for finding the truth about someone who is so often the face of adventism to many, but now it is just obsessive to still try worry about this. It's done, and we don't know that Danny and Brandy have not asked forgiveness(if nexcessary) and received that forgivess from God(at which time we know that He remembers them no more, casts them into the depths of the sea, as far as the east is from the west, etc.), None of us need to go scuba diving to dig them up. Let it go!
You know Dear Jesus, that you promised all sins to be forgiven if we repent and ask. You have promised us that. We can always rely on your promises. So someone needs to especially ask forgiveness for a situation that you know that one knowingly outright sinned. You see that someone had very little money to buy that really nice car that you know they wanted and needed. They know it was wrong but they as a thief does, went and stole the car. Now, they say they are really sorry that all went down. But you know Jesus they are enjoying, and comfortable sporting off that new car. So knowing that your forgiveness is in all sins, They shall keep the car. You are so good Jesus that you made a loop hole for them!! Aren't we humans so smart to use Gods promises against Him to get what we want??
I sure hope Bob does not let this go as this portrays the face of Adventism that is also stolen for a non denominational claimed-- plea to gain the pew money from the Remnant. On a much bigger scale maybe you ought to attend a tea party on the 15th of April and get to understand more about the agenda of thievery. :usa: unless Star Wars is on that day.
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The divorce in Guam was final in June, '04 but then Linda contested it in IL, correct? Could DS have remarried during that time or did he have to wait for an answer from the IL court. If he had to wait then is it possible that that is the reason for the time period between divorce and remarriage?
It does not appear anyone here is willing to answer you, so I will.
Yes, the divorce was final in June of 2004.
Yes, Linda Shelton filed to contest the Guam divorce she had consented to. She filed that case in February of 2005 in order to refile for a divorce from Danny Shelton in the Illinois court as part of her property case.
The Court ruled that she had no grounds to contest it and upheld the validity of the Guam divorce.
No, Danny Shelton did not have to wait for the ruling of the Illinois court. He could have legally remarried at anytime after the June 2004 divorce. Whether that would have been during the eight months before Linda Shelton attempted to contest the divorce, or at anytime after she tried to do so.
I hope this has been helpful.
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3abn defender,
Hmm,
Since when does courts always want to hear and rule on truth? Outside of mainland courts seems to run a little like the Natalie Holloway case. Escape to the best possible place for first preference was essential for DS. Why do you defend and cover what you do not know 100% sure facts of the proof of adultery on Linda's part?
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3abn defender,
Hmm,
Since when does courts always want to hear and rule on truth. Outside of mainland courts seems to run a little like the Natalie Holloway case. Escape to the best possible place for first preference was essential for DS. Why do you defend and cover what you do not know 100% sure facts?
To the contrary. I am speaking only of what I know to be 100% true and have personal knowledge of.
I understand that the truth is not always convenient to those who disagree with it.
You or anyone else may order records from the Franklin County courthouse and verify all that I have posted.
http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_information.jsp?court=IL028015J&ocl=IL028015J,2005D30,IL028015JL2005D30P1
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To the contrary. I am speaking only of what I know to be 100% true and have personal knowledge of.
I understand that the truth is not always convenient to those who disagree with it.
You or anyone else may order records from the Franklin County courthouse and verify all that I have posted.
http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_information.jsp?court=IL028015J&ocl=IL028015J,2005D30,IL028015JL2005D30P1
[/quote]
One discrepency I would have on this statement is that Danny waited because he was not sure how the court would rule after Linda contested. and before I go to this link to read or reread as not sure I have not already. I appreciate you putting something new up if I haven't. Will this link prove adultery? You see I can only determine discernment's with facts. Too bad that all do not feel the same as so far it is all hearsay unless proof is posted so all can come to same conclusion. DS had the first responsibility of showing proof since he was the first accuser. I am going to link
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3abn defender,
Yes, you spoke details of divorce 100%. My question is proof of adultery? Seems it will take some time to go through this link and subscribe to it. Is the adultery part proved in this link? just asking to save me a little time.
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You know, Bob, I do agree with you that Danny was more than possibly in a relationship with Brandy before the end of his marriage, No proof, but things just don't look right, and I seldom make such statement and never worng when I do.
That being said, what good is it almost five years down the road? He is now married to Brandy, to divorce her would make the situation no better, just a bigger mess. So at this point, he did it, and seems to have gotten away with it, but we all know that Danny is answerable to God for his sins just like everyone else. It makes absolutely no sense to beat this dead horse nailing down all these timelines. Danny will never tell you if he and Brandy were having an affair. He has got his story and he is sticking to it, lie, though it may be. What can you do? GC is not going to do a thing about, as you already see. I was all for finding the truth about someone who is so often the face of adventism to many, but now it is just obsessive to still try worry about this. It's done, and we don't know that Danny and Brandy have not asked forgiveness(if nexcessary) and received that forgivess from God(at which time we know that He remembers them no more, casts them into the depths of the sea, as far as the east is from the west, etc.), None of us need to go scuba diving to dig them up. Let it go!
First of all, Danny put the matter into the lawsuit, thus requesting me to investigate and question at least until the legal process is fully completed.
Second, if Danny had truly repented for what he has done, he would have either stepped down or brought Linda back. If he can still be there after everything, there is no basis for saying that Linda can't be there. And what organization would retain an individual after he did everything Danny has done?
Third, last I knew, Danny was still trying to hide his assets and income from Linda in her marital property case.
Fourth, to my knowledge, Danny is still appearing on my neighbors' TV's. If he is going to come into my community like that regardless of all that he has done, I have a right to speak up about my concerns.
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Third, last I knew, Danny was still trying to hide his assets and income from Linda in her marital property case.
The Franklin county court records only indicate sanctions issued against Linda Shelton on 04/11/07 isn't that correct?
If what you claim is the truth, and can be proven, then why haven't Linda's lawyers brought a motion for sanctions against Danny Shelton, and been granted that by the court?
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3abn defender,
Yes, you spoke details of divorce 100%. My question is proof of adultery? Seems it will take some time to go through this link and subscribe to it. Is the adultery part proved in this link? just asking to save me a little time.
There appears to be some mis-communication going on here.
I was not speaking in regards to the issue of adultery. That is an issue you have. I was merely answering GRAT's post. Look at that post and my answer to that post again.
But, to answer your question. No, those records to the property case will not prove that.
Q:My wife/husband has committed adultery. Isn't it to my advantage to file a divorce petition using grounds of adultery?
A:No. Illinois is a no fault state in the sense that adultery cannot be considered in the division of property or in awards of alimony (maintenance). The language of Illinois divorce law regarding property and maintenance states that the court shall determine the issues “without regard to marital misconduct.”
The issue of adultery is one between Linda, Danny, and God. It is the business of their Church also. It is not the business of the Illinois court.
The letters between Linda Shelton's Church and herself have been published however, and may be helpful to you.
http://references4links.blogspot.com/2007/05/letters-between-linda-shelton-and-her.html
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The letters between Linda Shelton's Church and herself have been published however, and may be helpful to you.
3ABN Defender,
Would you not agree that Danny brought disgrace upon 3ABN by forbidding Linda (unless she paid a whole bunch of money) to properly defend herself at that anticipated church business meeting? How dare he put 3ABN in a bad light like that!
Third, last I knew, Danny was still trying to hide his assets and income from Linda in her marital property case.
The Franklin county court records only indicate sanctions issued against Linda Shelton on 04/11/07 isn't that correct?
If what you claim is the truth, and can be proven, then why haven't Linda's lawyers brought a motion for sanctions against Danny Shelton, and been granted that by the court?
Ask them and see what they say. I don't have all the nitty gritty details.
Yet it is clear that Danny's July 2006 affidavit does not disclose the hundreds of thousands of dollars of royalties and/or kickbacks he received that year from Remnant and Pacific Press. Neither does it disclose his rights to Kay Kuzma's book, or his own pamphlets published by Pacific Press.
Last I knew, Danny was trying to impose a veil of secrecy over the marital property case so that no one would know how much money he funneled from 3ABN into his own pockets.
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http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-royalty-disclosures-financial-affidavit.htm (http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-royalty-disclosures-financial-affidavit.htm)
Take a look at how much Danny said he had in his bank accounts: $1,500 in one and $1,000 in another.
Do you have an explanation for that, 3ABN Defender? How could Danny have made hundreds of thousands of dollars in royalties and/or kickbacks in 2005 and 2006, and still only report under penalty of perjury two bank accounts with only $2,500 total in them?
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Don't mean to interfer with your conversation directed to Bob, But don't it take money to do all that? Seems all assets went into DS pocket with LS surviving.. it appears. Could be a lot of reasons I would imagine. Since when does the courts not lean to where the money is?? Believe me I know that for a fact. Ask Bob, he will tell you on my behalf. yes or no.
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.... A bit of research shows that you and I were editing your post at the same time. However, I posted my edit only a minute or so ahead of you so when you posted your edit it overrode my edit which apparently you never saw.
Snoopy
It's ok Snoopy. I am sorry for the confusion. I didn't know that could happen either. I might have thought the same thing as you did if our roles had been reversed when it happened.
Thank you for the explanation. :)
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There appears to be some mis-communication going on here.
3abn defender
Sorry, I looked back again and discovered you were sort of answering my question when you did not direct your to anyone.
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It recently came to my attention that Danny $helton has started providing a list of topics that are "off limits" for discussion to his interviewees, and that the off-limits list includes Bob Pickle and David Gates. I'd like to ask him why.
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It recently came to my attention that Danny $helton has started providing a list of topics that are "off limits" for discussion to his interviewees, and that the off-limits list includes Bob Pickle and David Gates. I'd like to ask him why.
what's he so afraid of? he sure has to control everything...people really should see that the mere fact he says he will do this or won't do that must mean he is avoiding something...sounds like he is just plain afraid of being cornered and exposed. anyone willing to be honest and upfront doesn't avoid questions when it come to telling the truth. almost sounds politcal to me... :scratch:
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It recently came to my attention that Danny $helton has started providing a list of topics that are "off limits" for discussion to his interviewees, and that the off-limits list includes Bob Pickle and David Gates. I'd like to ask him why.
David Gates? Why him?
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http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-royalty-disclosures-financial-affidavit.htm (http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-royalty-disclosures-financial-affidavit.htm)
Take a look at how much Danny said he had in his bank accounts: $1,500 in one and $1,000 in another.
Do you have an explanation for that, 3ABN Defender? How could Danny have made hundreds of thousands of dollars in royalties and/or kickbacks in 2005 and 2006, and still only report under penalty of perjury two bank accounts with only $2,500 total in them?
The explanation seems to be quite easy. If you feared yet of possible auditor, court, or had any thought of possible IRS still checking in, wouldn't you keep this as low as possible in your checking and saving. a lien or frozen could happen at any time....Everything must not be ok yet.
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It recently came to my attention that Danny $helton has started providing a list of topics that are "off limits" for discussion to his interviewees, and that the off-limits list includes Bob Pickle and David Gates. I'd like to ask him why.
Is this a recent action? When I interviewed him last he had no restrictions..
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Stan,
Perhaps you could confirm this with Danny Shelton?
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I see that Ian, Anyman and Co. have missed me during my absense from AT. I have been extremely busy in the real world and had little time for online amusements. I just finished catching up reading through this thread and see there is a claim of having a picture of Sister's husband speaking with Danny at the ASI Convention and Danny is talking about Sister's writings. Is it a talking picture? :dunno: Otherwide, how does a still picture prove that Danny was speaking with the individual pictured about Sister's writings and that he is Sister's husband? I would like to see this "proof" posted... or is it just another, "...believe me, I have PROOF!, but I am unwilling to post it...but I have my reasons..." :ROFL:
Greg and Cindi, we all know who you are, although I had forgotten how amusing your argumentation could become when viewed in conjunction with each other---factually challenged, but entertaining never the less. :wave:
Sam, this person you are speaking about, why not just say who it is? Perhaps she is the physician who treated Danny's mother before her death? You claim this person is not someone "in the know". What exactly do you understand "in the know" to mean? "In the know" of what information? Rather than actually answering questions, your "answers" only generate further questions:
- Where did you get your information on this topic?
- What makes you "in the know" on this particular topic?
- How do you know who Linda speaks with and what topics are discussed within her conversations?
- Are you a professional mind reader or the proud owner of a crystal ball which contains all truth and wisdom, how else could you know Pickle's source of information if he has not told you?
Ther are numerous other questions I could ask, but...well you all know where that usually takes us... :hamster:
Sister
Hey, Sister,
Good to see you well and back at the helm!!! I consider that a good sign that the convergence of time and opportunity are leaving the 3ABN Non-denominational cult ripe for yet another go at it!!! Here, here!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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It recently came to my attention that Danny $helton has started providing a list of topics that are "off limits" for discussion to his interviewees, and that the off-limits list includes Bob Pickle and David Gates. I'd like to ask him why.
I wonder if Danny is keeping tabs on David Gates now days?
I am hearing wondrous stories in Texas! Yeah in Texas, not South America! David Gates got 4 UHF channels down south. You can pick it up on channel 28 in Dallas! Since they started, 28 people walked into the SDA Church and they had decided to join the church on channel 28! There are miracles that brought this about! Real miracles!
David Gates had to come to the states to see about continuing to pay for the air time. They needed $65,000 but they did not have it.
The local pastor had a member in the hospital preparing for surgery. The pastor went to pray with her and took David Gates. While the pastor was with the wife, David Gates was talking to the husband. The husband asked why David Gates was there. He explained about the $65,000 to get these channels. By then all four were talking! The husband had just cashed in something or other and said he could give David Gates $60,000, but the wife said, "No you won't! Give him the whole thing, $80,000!
The channels have been received so well people have been approaching David Gates to give his channels. He is in New York, Florida and about 5 other states! Those first channels are no longer $65,000. They have been so well received, they pay only $10,000 a month now.
They are going HD.
I thought of all this today as I watched Jim Gilley give their beg-athon for a million dollars to go HD. I believe I am seeing the end of 3ABN and the coming up of David Gates! May God bless his ministry.
Dallas viewers have had 3ABN, but people walking in are watching channel 28!
Another miracle happened here in Texas during an evangelistic meeting.
All the pastors of all the area churches came together and were led by the Spirit that they needed prayer and fasting for 50 days prior to the meetings. Then these pastors went back to the churches and got commitments from the members within the area to pray and fast for those chosen 50 days!
There were many baptisms that went to those churches that were fasting and praying. The names were read and one member said, "I know him!" She made her way to see him. She went up to him and said, "I know you!" The fellow told her she must be mistaken! She told him, that she had been fasting and praying for him by name for over 2 months! Everyone there asked how she came to be praying for him.
She said when the pastor asked for everyone to fast and pray, she decided to randomly pick 15 names out of her phone book. Then she prayed for the meeting and for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, but in addition she prayed for 15 people by name! When all baptisms were in, 8 of those 15 were baptised!
This is for real! It is time for us to fast and pray that God will work at 3ABN. 3ABN's foundation is based on lies, deceit, private gain and adultery by Danny, not Linda. That is what I am going to start doing. It is time for full disclosure and exposure! Pray that David Gates Ministry and Hope TV will storm the US, and then the world.
Investigation should happen in all of the off shore offices of 3ABN. All Trust Funds should be subjected to a 100% audit to make sure dead people are not still receiving annuities. There are some that have Danny on the signature of the accounts. I understand there are some that put Danny in charge of their trusts. When a person dies, all that would have to be done is to keep the trust alive and keep sending monthly checks to an account that Danny is in charge of. I have no proof this is happening, but I believe it could possibly be happening, or was happening previously.
Today their Trust Fund person at 3ABN is a female. She played the piano for special music. She was very good. I didn't really like her technique, but she can tickle those keys. Her hand posture was very good too.
Yes, miracles are happening right before our eyes! It is coming to an end. Will I be alive to see Jesus come to take us home? I do hope so.