Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => Womens Ordination & Related Issues => Topic started by: SDAminister on August 26, 2012, 04:12:55 PM
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Dear Leona,
In Western societies and in Seventh-day Adventism, we can no longer tolerate people who dream up doctrines without a plain thus saith the Lord. The beating of your drum is heard but we shall not follow its calling.
"Why not", you ask?
Here's why:
"Again and again did Wm. Miller [Like the reformers] urge that if his doctrine were false, he should be shown his error from the Scriptures. In an address to Christians of all denominations he wrote: “What have we believed that we have not been commanded to believe by the word of God, which you yourselves allow is the rule and the only rule of our faith and practice? What have we done that should call down such virulent denunciations against us from pulpit and press, and give you just cause to exclude us (Adventists) from your churches and fellowship?” “If we are wrong, pray show us wherein consists our wrong. Show us from the word of God that we are in error; we have had ridicule enough; that can never convince us that we are in the wrong; the word of God alone can change our views. Our conclusions have been formed deliberately and prayerfully, as we have seen the evidence in the Scriptures.” Spirit of Prophecy V4. p 217
And so, Ms Running, it appears you are on the wrong side of a SOP quote. Come on Leona, where is your Bible proof? It is hard for thee to kick at the pricks. And the largest prick, the Sword, i.e. the Word, is not easily defeated by your musings.
It's amazing how such an intelligent woman such as you would try and stoop to referring to diatribes such as The Welcome Table as a reference work in this discussion. How sad that such an eminent Biblical scholar (or, perhaps more accurately "Biblical Languages Scholar" ----- big difference!) such as you would fall for or even be a part of the higher-critical method of Biblical interpretation such as is seen in The Welcome Table. Again, I understand that you're not a Bible scholar, merely a teacher of ancient languages.
But be not amiss, we all know you come from the rabid feminist camp of way-out-there left-wing liberal Adventism. Thusly, we should expect nothing less than this kind of sad letter from you to your President.
"Through the years, Dr.Running has vocally and financially supported the idea of women
ministry. Her students have listened to her wax eloquent on the topic. She constantly seeks
to encourage women in their endeavors and to help men see the need for the participation
of women in church activities at all levels. Because of her reserved demeanor, several of
her former students remember their shock and glee when she came to class one day wearing a
T-shirt emblazoned with the words,“A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.”"
www.andrews.edu/sem/article.php?id=110
Tell me when to laugh Leona, because I think I missed the joke....
And like William Miller said, we're tired of your ridicule.
SDAminister
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Dr. Running was willing to put her name and reputation on the line in writting her open letter to President Wilson. You would have earned more respect if you had openly attached your name and reputation to your open letter. You see, there is a sense in which a letter is not an open one when the author fails to give his/her true name.
By the way, your comments about her academic background are incorrect. If you read and understood her signature block at the end of the letter, would have been informed that she has two (2) earned doctorates. The DHL is an earned doctorate. In general terms it has the same criteria as does a PhD.
It seems to me that accuracy is not high with you--E.G your comments about me and susentation.
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There is a school of thought that says that one is not a theologian unless one has a ThD. By that criteria,most of those academics who are held in high estem by conservative Adventists could not be called theologians.
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Dr. Running was willing to put her name and reputation on the line in writting her open letter to President Wilson. You would have earned more respect if you had openly attached your name and reputation to your open letter.
By the way, your comments about her academic background are incorrect. If you read and understood her signature block at the end of the letter, would have been informed that she has two (2) earned doctorates. The DHL is an earned doctorate. In general terms it has the same criteria as does a PhD.
It seems to me that accuracy is not high with you--E.G your comments about me and susentation.
Methinks Leona's reputation is taking the greater hit, not mine. I have none. I am nameless and faceless. My nom de plume is my license to freedom. The fact that you don't know who I am may infuriate you. Pen names are allowed in this forum and you cannot fault someone here for using one. If you don't like the rules of this forum, go elsewhere.
But I do not seek your respect. Again, I repeat Wm Miller, "Show us from the Word of God where we are wrong..." Until such time, your ridicule is thoughtlessly ignored.
Now, if I may drop some knowledge on you: I did not misstate Dr. Running's academic background. I stated it exactly as it is listed on the Andrews Univ./Seminary website. http://www.andrews.edu/sem/article.php?id=110&action=print
Regarding her DHL: Which institution granted it? What was her research in? How many years did it take to complete? Is her thesis on file somewhere?
Why does she list her DHL in her letter but not on her page at Andrews?
I may be wrong, but I've never, ever heard of a DHL being an earned degree. Prove me wrong.
SDAminister
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Gregory, was Leona's wearing a t-shirt that said “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle” meant to be a joke, or was she serious about that? SDAminister took it to mean that Leona is part of the "rabid feminist camp," and I confess, it came across to me the same way. Did she just mean it to be a joke, and not part of her personal philosophy?
It is a fact that God saw that man needed some help, and so He made the woman for the man. As one preacher said in a list he gave, men lose things and women find things. "Where are the keys, dear?" "On the end of your nose, dear." There's a lot of truth in that.
But I would think it a rather strange conclusion if the assistance God intended us to give each other was only one way, and that women don't need any help at all.
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I have no problem with pennames in this forum. It is your right. I understand. I have posted under pennames in forums. However when one claims to send an open letter, that is expected to have a true name. My focus was on the fact that you claim to send an open letter and are unwilling to let the world know who your are.
Continue to post here under a penname and I will never challenge you for your posting here.
As to the DHL: The answer to your questions is easily available on the Internet. I have a basic assumption that you are skilled enough to find the answer to your questions in less than 60 seconds. It is there. [O.K. a bit longera if you do not have broadband access to the Internet.]
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Bob, as to a t-shirt: I have no idea. I know nothing about it. She had a sense of humor. If I were to speculate, I would go in that direction. But, I am not going to speculate on an issue that I know nothing about. Speculation is often wrong and gets people in trouble.
I had a Hebrew class from her. We were aware in a very limited way about some of the struggles she had had at a time when she was not paid the sam as males. But, she never focused on that. She never in any class I attended went off on a feminist agenda. She was very kind to me.
I guess one could ask her. That is where questions of such should be directed--to the person directly involved.
Many years ago, I ran in a race where I was given a t-shirt that had the name and logo of a well known beer. Prior to the race, I had professionaly imprinted on the t-shirt, above the name and logo: "Real men don't drink." It turned some heads, yes I wore it during the race, but no one asked me what I intended.
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People can be so cruel.
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Gregory,
Funny story about the beer t-shirt. I'll have to remember that!
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I have no problem with pennames in this forum. It is your right. I understand. I have posted under pennames in forums. However when one claims to send an open letter, that is expected to have a true name. My focus was on the fact that you claim to send an open letter and are unwilling to let the world know who your are.
Continue to post here under a penname and I will never challenge you for your posting here.
As to the DHL: The answer to your questions is easily available on the Internet. I have a basic assumption that you are skilled enough to find the answer to your questions in less than 60 seconds. It is there. [O.K. a bit longera if you do not have broadband access to the Internet.]
I spent some time but could not find the info I asked you about sister Running's DHL degree. Would you please post the info since you are able to find it in less than a minute? Thanks.
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A D.H.L. is an honorary degree. It cannot be achieved by taking academic classes, instead it must be gained though significant contributions to society. It is granted when the recipient has contributed significantly to society or to his field.
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When chihuahuas nip at the heels of giants, it may make the chihuahuas feel big, but it neither makes the chihuahuas big, or the giants small.
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A D.H.L. is an honorary degree. It cannot be achieved by taking academic classes, instead it must be gained though significant contributions to society. It is granted when the recipient has contributed significantly to society or to his field.
100% false.
It is not an honary degree. It is an earned degree.
It is not obtained by making significant contributions to society or a fileld of study.
It is granted after extensive academic work and a thesis by an accredlited institution of higher learning that is approved to grant doctoral degrees.
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Gregory,
Did you receive permission from Adventist Forum (Spectrum Magazine) to republish here the entire article titled "Open Letter to Ted Wilson From Your Hebrew Teacher"?
SDAminister
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A D.H.L. is an honorary degree. It cannot be achieved by taking academic classes, instead it must be gained though significant contributions to society. It is granted when the recipient has contributed significantly to society or to his field.
100% false.
It is not an honary degree. It is an earned degree.
It is not obtained by making significant contributions to society or a fileld of study.
It is granted after extensive academic work and a thesis by an accredlited institution of higher learning that is approved to grant doctoral degrees.
Gregory,
It appears that you were very, very mistaken.
"Honorary Degrees Awarded
During Commencement services on Sunday, May 6, two individuals were honored with honorary doctorates: Leona Running and Ismael Castillo Osuna.
Leona Running, professor of Biblical languages, emeritus, received an honorary Doctor of Humane Letters for her commitment to the spiritual and educational development of her students, her outstanding global contributions to the Adventist Church and its message, and her groundbreaking influence on the involvement of women in academia and the ministry. ..."
http://www.andrews.edu/news/2012/05/graduation_2012.html
SDAminister
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The following is an abridged statment of the requirements to recieve a DHL degree. If you want to know know, you can find out more on the Internet. I have abridged it because I wanted to be brief. It should be noted that several schohols in the United States offer the DHL degree.
First-Year Review
The candidacy of each first-year DHL student will be reviewed after the first year. The student's department, in conjunction with the dean, will review the progress the student has made and assess the student's potential to complete the degree. If the department or the dean is not satisfied with the student's progress or potential, the student will be dropped from the DHL program but will be allowed to complete the first year of residence.
Hebrew
Prior to taking the Comprehensive Examination, doctoral students are required to pass a proficiency exam in reading Hebrew academic texts, for which HEB 5999: Reading Academic Texts provides the requisite skills.
Course Work
A minimum of 30 credits of graduate course work beyond the master's degree is required. Of these, 21 credits are to be in the field of specialization. A minimum of 18 credits must be taken at the New York campus. All courses must be approved by the adviser.
Consortium
All matriculated DHL students may take courses offered through the DHL consortium, including the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences at Columbia University, Fordham University, and Union Theological Seminary. Students must receive the advance approval of the adviser and register for those courses on their JTS registration cards. The host institution reserves the right to give its own students priority enrollment.
Comprehensive Examination
Most departments require a comprehensive examination in the field of specialization after completion of course work. The comprehensive examination will be graded on the following scale: pass with distinction, pass, or fail. A student who fails the examination may take it once more. A second failure automatically terminates the student's participation in the DHL program.
Dissertation
A candidate is required to write a dissertation in the field of specialization. This work must be a contribution to the field and may be a synthesis of extant scholarship on the topic. A written proposal for the dissertation must be submitted for approval to a faculty adviser. Both the proposal and the adviser's written approval must be submitted to The Graduate School for approval by the dean. The dissertation is then to be written under the supervision of the faculty adviser who approved it. Dissertations are to be written in English.
Please not the following:
1) It can take up to 10 years to complete the requirements for a DHL degree.
2) Pay attention to the schools that offer courses that may be used for the requirements--Fordham University, Columbia University, Union Theological Seminary, etc.
3) To obtain a DHL degree one must write a thesis.
Believe me, a DHL degree is a recognized academic degree.
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SDA Minister said:
Gregory,
It appears that you were very, very mistaken.
It appears that you are correct. I acknowledge that I was wrong and I have never claimed to be 100% correct. :) :)
Thank you (I mean it.) for providing the correction that I deserved.
I will leave my previous posst as it clearly points out that there is an academic DHL degree. That is what confused me. It appears that you knew more about her degree than did I.
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SDAminister said:
Gregory,
Did you receive permission from Adventist Forum (Spectrum Magazine) to republish here the entire article titled "Open Letter to Ted Wilson From Your Hebrew Teacher"?
The copyright on that letter is held by Dr. Running. The Association of Adventist Forums is not the owner of the copyright. It therefore, cannot give permission to republish. How do I know? I have written to them in the past for permission to republish. They explained to me what I have said above and that I needed to obtain permission from the author.
When Dr. Runnilng wrote her "open letter" she placed it in the public domain. It can be republished at will without obtaining permission.
If you really understand copyright law, you will know that there is a provision of the law that allows for repubolication of an entire work without permission. My republication of that letter was under the provisions of that part of the law.
How do I know. "Several years ago there was a person who published each week a piece entitled, "Jesus of the Week." I found him to be very offensive. About half of the time he would publish a work by a SDA author, often Maxwell. I believed him to violate copyright. I contacted the denominational holder of the copyrighted material. After review, it was explained to me that his material was published under the provisions of the law that allowed an entire work to be republished and therefore the denomination could do nothing about it.
What did I achieve? The paper that was publishing his material stopped publishing it.
NOTE: You can find "Jesus of the Week" material on the Internet. If you do, you will find it very offensive.
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Additional information for anyone interested:
The DHL degree that I referenced is a Doctor of Hebrew Letters and my abridged quotation came from the Jewish Theological Seminary of New York. The JTS is one of several schools that award the DHL degree.
Copyright law: In a prior life I was once in a posiiton where I was republishing copyrighted material. My job depended upon my compliance with the law. As I was educated on the provisions of the law, I became aware that there are a basketfull of exceptions and that U.S. copyright law was not fully in compliance with Internatioinal law. I actually was republishing under a provision of the law that gave me limited rights to republish without permission. However, I typically republished beyond those limited rights. So, as a courtesy and to publish outside of those rights, I obtained permission from the copyright holder inevery case. In some cases the copyright holder placed restrlictions on what I could co.
In that posiiton, I published a number of articles from SPECTRUM. In every case I obtained permission from the author and I complied with whatever restrictions were placed upon me. In some cases none. In one case, not involving SPECTRUM, the author required substantial rewriting of the article. I complied. As copyright holder, the author was in charge. In that case, in effect it becam a new, never published, article. :)
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SDAminister said:
Gregory,
Did you receive permission from Adventist Forum (Spectrum Magazine) to republish here the entire article titled "Open Letter to Ted Wilson From Your Hebrew Teacher"?
The copyright on that letter is held by Dr. Running. The Association of Adventist Forums is not the owner of the copyright. It therefore, cannot give permission to republish. How do I know? I have written to them in the past for permission to republish. They explained to me what I have said above and that I needed to obtain permission from the author.
When Dr. Runnilng wrote her "open letter" she placed it in the public domain. It can be republished at will without obtaining permission.
If you really understand copyright law, you will know that there is a provision of the law that allows for repubolication of an entire work without permission. My republication of that letter was under the provisions of that part of the law.
How do I know. "Several years ago there was a person who published each week a piece entitled, "Jesus of the Week." I found him to be very offensive. About half of the time he would publish a work by a SDA author, often Maxwell. I believed him to violate copyright. I contacted the denominational holder of the copyrighted material. After review, it was explained to me that his material was published under the provisions of the law that allowed an entire work to be republished and therefore the denomination could do nothing about it.
What did I achieve? The paper that was publishing his material stopped publishing it.
NOTE: You can find "Jesus of the Week" material on the Internet. If you do, you will find it very offensive.
Okay, thanks for the info on copyright law. I'm no expert on that. I know that certain things and parts can be republished such as for review and critique. But you did neither of these. You posted the entire letter/article without comment. So, I'm still not clear though has to how you could republish the entire article without approval from either AAF or Dr. Running.
The article as it sits on the Spectrum Website is emblazoned with a copyright symbol at the bottom.
Did Dr. Running personally release to you permission to reprint the entire article/letter?
You state that she placed it in the public domain. When and how did she do this? Merely writing "open letter" does not do this. I could write a 200 page letter, bind it in a book and call it "My Open Letter to the Queen of England". Does that mean there is no copyright on it? Of course not.
The intended audience may be the world, but the method that info gets to the world can be controlled.
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When chihuahuas nip at the heels of giants, it may make the chihuahuas feel big, but it neither makes the chihuahuas big, or the giants small.
"Responsibility is the price of greatness.” --Winston Churchill
Is it responsible for a scholarly woman in the position of role model to young women interested in theology to wear a t-shirt that says “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle”?
To me, that would be an influence in the regrettable direction of society that we find ourselves in today, in which men are put down and women make fun of them...i.e. see some current TV sitcoms.
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The disrespect hurtled at Dr. Running in this open letter is deserving of the same revulsion and outrage some of us have over the same disrespect shown Ted Wilson at the PUC session.
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The disrespect hurtled at Dr. Running in this open letter is deserving of the same revulsion and outrage some of us have over the same disrespect shown Ted Wilson at the PUC session.
Exactly.
In addition, the person who authored that so-called "open letter" did not have the courage to write undeer his name.
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I, too, am saddened by the disrespect given to Dr. Running. Not only because she is a very learned person, but because of her age. Since when do we disrespect the elderly? And she is not the only one disrespected, but many others who comment on this forum have been torn down and ridiculed by those who are supposed to be our Christian brethren. What spirit is guiding the words of those who are intent on making their view known by hurting others with their words. :( We all need to keep 1 Corinthians 13 in our minds before we write or speak. Let's all pray that we can do as Jesus would have done and not be found wanting when He comes again.
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Christined, it would be wonderful if being an elderly person conferred sainthood, or at least elevated christian character status on an individual.
Unfortunately, that is not the case.
Take Bernie Madoff, for instance. He was lauded as a businessman, stockbroker, investment adviser, and financier in the past before the real truth came out.
I'm sure you can think of many example where elderly people, even respected and educated ones, have proved to not command respect.
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I personally cannot respect a woman, elderly or not, in the position of role model to younger women who wears a t-shirt that says “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle”.
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Unfortunately, we sometimes tend to find excuses to disrespect those who we disagree with, excuses based on rumors, jokes, etc. I could easily do the same to Wilson. I have heard a few things. But that doesn't make it right, does it. All it would accomplish is to make me look the fool. Wilson, and most other top leaders and scholars of the SDA church over the past 50 years learned at her feet. She is recognized, even by those who disagree with her on this point, as one of the intellectual giants of Adventism. I embarrassed for those who are disrespecting and mocking her. It in no way reduces her, but it certainly reduces them.
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The disrespect hurtled at Dr. Running in this open letter is deserving of the same revulsion and outrage some of us have over the same disrespect shown Ted Wilson at the PUC session.
Exactly.
In addition, the person who authored that so-called "open letter" did not have the courage to write undeer his name.
Gregory, yesterday you said, " Continue to post here under a penname and I will never challenge you for your posting here."
Why do you continue to chide me about this?
The open letter was from SDAminister to Dr. Leona Running.
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I personally cannot respect a woman, elderly or not, in the position of role model to younger women who wears a t-shirt that says “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle”.
You have no idea what triggered that?
People do things for a joke.
Loena has been single most of her life having been widowed at an early age.
Maybe all those zealous match makers were putting presure on her to marry some one, but she chose her career.
Obviously she chose to "go it without a husband" or a man in her life.
Was she going against God's commands?
1 Cor. 7:34 The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please [her] husband.
7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
7:40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.
What ever the reason -- it's no excuse for "disrespect", for a woman who was every bit a great example of a Christian life.
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Gregory, yesterday you said, " Continue to post here under a penname and I will never challenge you for your posting here."
Why do you continue to chide me about this?
The open letter was from SDAminister to Dr. Leona Running.
So, did you send her a personal copy of your "open letter," that included your real name and address? If so, you gave her the opportunity to respond directly to you and rebut statements that you made.
If you did, you acted responsibility.
If you did not, I will suggest that your "open letter" was to the world at large and not to Dr. Running. In this case, Dr. Running would have no chance to respond to you and rebut what you stated. In fact, if you did not, it is likely that she will never know of what you said about her. An open letter to her, hardly if it is not likely that she will ever be able to respond.
Even in the seccular world at large it is thought that anyone who makes the comments that you made should be willing to take responsibility for such by being open about who they are.
In the Christian world it is expected that such statements should be made openly to that person involvled which includes an openness as to who you are. No, I do not challenge you Christianity. I am simply saying that I believe you have failed to live up that the standards.
My experience with abusive people is that they are often cowards who prey on people who either will not or can not stand up to them. They often hide their abuse behind false fronts that protect them from taking responsibility for their actions. I do not claim that you are abusive. You may be one of the kindest persons on Earth, as is Dr. Running. I simply do not know who and what you are. While in reality you may be kind and responsible, by making your comments, hiding behind a posting name that shields you from responsibility for your comments you are acting in an abusive manner toward an almost 96 year-old woman deserves better.
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Gregory, yesterday you said, " Continue to post here under a penname and I will never challenge you for your posting here."
Why do you continue to chide me about this?
The open letter was from SDAminister to Dr. Leona Running.
So, did you send her a personal copy of your "open letter," that included your real name and address? If so, you gave her the opportunity to respond directly to you and rebut statements that you made.
If you did, you acted responsibility.
If you did not, I will suggest that your "open letter" was to the world at large and not to Dr. Running. In this case, Dr. Running would have no chance to respond to you and rebut what you stated. In fact, if you did not, it is likely that she will never know of what you said about her. An open letter to her, hardly if it is not likely that she will ever be able to respond.
Did sister Running's letter have a return address or contact info so that brother Wilson could respond? And why is the letter undated? Did she write it 2 years ago? When? Did she write it at the moment of his election in Atlanta?
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I do not know what Dr. Running put on her letter when she personally sent a copy to President Wilson. In any case, she identified herself. As General Conference President, he clearly has the ability to determine her address and to respond to her.
With her identified by name I was quickly able to detemine her address.
I do not blame her ifshe deleted her address from the public posting of her letter.
Your letter was different. In your posted letter you did not identify yourself. If you sent a copy to President Wilson, without identfying who your were, it was probably quickly sent to the trash-bin. Denominational leaders do not place much stock in letters in which the author does not identify themselves.
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I have long since abandoned being a respecter of Doctorates or Corporate Positions. The Bible is very definitely a guidepost for eternal life and the opinions and studied thesis of human wisdom can be quite debilitating to christian development and the moral standards.
I look at Geithner of treasury with utmost disdain as he struggles with the mess he and the wall street crowd have created. I saw Paulson, a football hero just four years ahead of me turn into an incompetent bumbler as the waves of financial crisis washed over him and he had to turn to the Federal Treasury to cover the sins of his progeny and others on wall street gone awry in debt and mis-management. And Jamie Dimon struggle with a $5 Billion (yup, a B) loss from a hired gun in London that gambled with the banks money and ran up against former JPMorgan traders determined to punish Dimon and company.
Interestingly, most of the bankers that gave us this mess we live in were Harvard MBA's, some with more than one and many duel JD, MBA's.
I am no respecter of human intelligence and academic achievement and will stand with the eternal brilliance and simple intelligence of a Bible Scholar with no degree ANY DAY!!! An individual driven by his right of conscience and his connection with Heavenly Intelligence at one with the Holy Spirit.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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I do not know what Dr. Running put on her letter when she personally sent a copy to President Wilson. In any case, she identified herself. As General Conference President, he clearly has the ability to determine her address and to respond to her.
With her identified by name I was quickly able to detemine her address.
I do not blame her ifshe deleted her address from the public posting of her letter.
Your letter was different. In your posted letter you did not identify yourself. If you sent a copy to President Wilson, without identfying who your were, it was probably quickly sent to the trash-bin. Denominational leaders do not place much stock in letters in which the author does not identify themselves.
Your attempts to cover up being caught in a double-standard are amusing. Did you think to ask if I too withheld my address from the public posting of my letter?
And why no response from you as to why her letter was undated? Or was that redacted as well to keep the public from some secret?
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I am glad you are amused.
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I have long since abandoned being a respecter of Doctorates or Corporate Positions. The Bible is very definitely a guidepost for eternal life and the opinions and studied thesis of human wisdom can be quite debilitating to christian development and the moral standards.
I look at Geithner of treasury with utmost disdain as he struggles with the mess he and the wall street crowd have created. I saw Paulson, a football hero just four years ahead of me turn into an incompetent bumbler as the waves of financial crisis washed over him and he had to turn to the Federal Treasury to cover the sins of his progeny and others on wall street gone awry in debt and mis-management. And Jamie Dimon struggle with a $5 Billion (yup, a B) loss from a hired gun in London that gambled with the banks money and ran up against former JPMorgan traders determined to punish Dimon and company.
Interestingly, most of the bankers that gave us this mess we live in were Harvard MBA's, some with more than one and many duel JD, MBA's.
I am no respecter of human intelligence and academic achievement and will stand with the eternal brilliance and simple intelligence of a Bible Scholar with no degree ANY DAY!!! An individual driven by his right of conscience and his connection with Heavenly Intelligence at one with the Holy Spirit.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
We are on the same page there. Perhaps I could have been clearer and used the word 'respect' in the context of 'decorum' and 'common manners.' Incivility is shameful.
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I know exactly who you are. Does that infuriate you?? Would you have a little more respect if the people you were conversing with knew who you are??
Dr. Running was willing to put her name and reputation on the line in writting her open letter to President Wilson. You would have earned more respect if you had openly attached your name and reputation to your open letter.
By the way, your comments about her academic background are incorrect. If you read and understood her signature block at the end of the letter, would have been informed that she has two (2) earned doctorates. The DHL is an earned doctorate. In general terms it has the same criteria as does a PhD.
It seems to me that accuracy is not high with you--E.G your comments about me and susentation.
Methinks Leona's reputation is taking the greater hit, not mine. I have none. I am nameless and faceless. My nom de plume is my license to freedom. The fact that you don't know who I am may infuriate you. Pen names are allowed in this forum and you cannot fault someone here for using one. If you don't like the rules of this forum, go elsewhere.
But I do not seek your respect. Again, I repeat Wm Miller, "Show us from the Word of God where we are wrong..." Until such time, your ridicule is thoughtlessly ignored.
Now, if I may drop some knowledge on you: I did not misstate Dr. Running's academic background. I stated it exactly as it is listed on the Andrews Univ./Seminary website. http://www.andrews.edu/sem/article.php?id=110&action=print
Regarding her DHL: Which institution granted it? What was her research in? How many years did it take to complete? Is her thesis on file somewhere?
Why does she list her DHL in her letter but not on her page at Andrews?
I may be wrong, but I've never, ever heard of a DHL being an earned degree. Prove me wrong.
SDAminister
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Yes heartfan, I probably would in some cases. In other cases, no.
If I answer a fool according to his folly, am I wrong?
When Dr. Running equates racism with a doctrine of the church for 6000 years and nearly accuses her president of condoning racism, who is the one lacking respect? And so, we answer a fool according to their folly. That's what the Bible says to do.
But, outside of which tone I used, did you pretty much agree with the points made in the letter? Are you on board with me?
I know exactly who you are. Does that infuriate you?? Would you have a little more respect if the people you were conversing with knew who you are??
Dr. Running was willing to put her name and reputation on the line in writting her open letter to President Wilson. You would have earned more respect if you had openly attached your name and reputation to your open letter.
By the way, your comments about her academic background are incorrect. If you read and understood her signature block at the end of the letter, would have been informed that she has two (2) earned doctorates. The DHL is an earned doctorate. In general terms it has the same criteria as does a PhD.
It seems to me that accuracy is not high with you--E.G your comments about me and susentation.
Methinks Leona's reputation is taking the greater hit, not mine. I have none. I am nameless and faceless. My nom de plume is my license to freedom. The fact that you don't know who I am may infuriate you. Pen names are allowed in this forum and you cannot fault someone here for using one. If you don't like the rules of this forum, go elsewhere.
But I do not seek your respect. Again, I repeat Wm Miller, "Show us from the Word of God where we are wrong..." Until such time, your ridicule is thoughtlessly ignored.
Now, if I may drop some knowledge on you: I did not misstate Dr. Running's academic background. I stated it exactly as it is listed on the Andrews Univ./Seminary website. http://www.andrews.edu/sem/article.php?id=110&action=print
Regarding her DHL: Which institution granted it? What was her research in? How many years did it take to complete? Is her thesis on file somewhere?
Why does she list her DHL in her letter but not on her page at Andrews?
I may be wrong, but I've never, ever heard of a DHL being an earned degree. Prove me wrong.
SDAminister
-
NO I am not on board with you. I think the tone of your posts has been very offensive and I am surprised at you. You know better than that. I KNOW you were raised better.
Yes heartfan, I probably would in some cases. In other cases, no.
If I answer a fool according to his folly, am I wrong?
When Dr. Running equates racism with a doctrine of the church for 6000 years and nearly accuses her president of condoning racism, who is the one lacking respect? And so, we answer a fool according to their folly. That's what the Bible says to do.
But, outside of which tone I used, did you pretty much agree with the points made in the letter? Are you on board with me?
I know exactly who you are. Does that infuriate you?? Would you have a little more respect if the people you were conversing with knew who you are??
Dr. Running was willing to put her name and reputation on the line in writting her open letter to President Wilson. You would have earned more respect if you had openly attached your name and reputation to your open letter.
By the way, your comments about her academic background are incorrect. If you read and understood her signature block at the end of the letter, would have been informed that she has two (2) earned doctorates. The DHL is an earned doctorate. In general terms it has the same criteria as does a PhD.
It seems to me that accuracy is not high with you--E.G your comments about me and susentation.
Methinks Leona's reputation is taking the greater hit, not mine. I have none. I am nameless and faceless. My nom de plume is my license to freedom. The fact that you don't know who I am may infuriate you. Pen names are allowed in this forum and you cannot fault someone here for using one. If you don't like the rules of this forum, go elsewhere.
But I do not seek your respect. Again, I repeat Wm Miller, "Show us from the Word of God where we are wrong..." Until such time, your ridicule is thoughtlessly ignored.
Now, if I may drop some knowledge on you: I did not misstate Dr. Running's academic background. I stated it exactly as it is listed on the Andrews Univ./Seminary website. http://www.andrews.edu/sem/article.php?id=110&action=print
Regarding her DHL: Which institution granted it? What was her research in? How many years did it take to complete? Is her thesis on file somewhere?
Why does she list her DHL in her letter but not on her page at Andrews?
I may be wrong, but I've never, ever heard of a DHL being an earned degree. Prove me wrong.
SDAminister