Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => Womens Ordination & Related Issues => Topic started by: Dedication on September 01, 2012, 08:57:29 PM
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Presented at the TED European Pastors Conference
Rogaska-Slatina, Slovenia, 25 August, 2012
By: Dr. Bertil Wiklander
The Trans-European Division is a division of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists. It means that T.E.D. follows General Conference policy, except in cases where we request and are given permission to apply a variance to the common world-church policy. The 11 unions within the T.E.D. are all members of the General Conference (and the T.E.D.) and in their constitutions and bylaws they state that their faith, church order, and working policies shall be in harmony with the GC/TED....
I accept women’s ordination as being biblical and appropriate. But I am also very concerned that we manage this important matter in harmony and cooperation with the world church. I know that the Lord will bless our joint efforts to explore his word and to share it with our brothers and sisters world-wide. And I think the best thing we can do is to pray for the Spirit of God to lead his church to understand this matter in harmony with his will. As keepers of the heritage of the Protestant reformation, let us see this matter from a spiritual perspective and ask God to lead us to an understanding of his truth. And let us do it in a spirit of respect for each other, knowing that we all seek the truth and that Christ has promised that the Holy Spirit will ‘guide us into all truth’.
Dr. Bertil Wiklander is president of the Trans-European Division of Seventh-day Adventists.
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Bertil Wiklander's father was also a pastor in Sweden. In his doctoral thesis Bertil demonstrated a thorough knowledge of the Book of Isaiah where he showed, as far as I remember, from the structure of the Hebrew language that the whole book was written by the same author, Isaiah himself, and it was not written by several authors, like some liberal theologians were claiming. So he is a thorough conservative Bible scholar, now a senior among Division Presidents.
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Bertil Wiklander's father was also a pastor in Sweden. In his doctoral thesis Bertil demonstrated a thorough knowledge of the Book of Isaiah where he showed, as far as I remember, from the structure of the Hebrew language that the whole book was written by the same author, Isaiah himself, and it was not written by several authors, like some liberal theologians were claiming. So he is a thorough conservative Bible scholar, now a senior among Division Presidents.
I received this note of approval by e-mail:
Bertil Wiklander
7:50 AM (32 minutes ago)
to me
Thank you, Johann. This is fine.
Warm greetings,
Bertil
Sent from my iPhone
Nice! :)
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Bertil Wiklander's father was also a pastor in Sweden. In his doctoral thesis Bertil demonstrated a thorough knowledge of the Book of Isaiah where he showed, as far as I remember, from the structure of the Hebrew language that the whole book was written by the same author, Isaiah himself, and it was not written by several authors, like some liberal theologians were claiming. So he is a thorough conservative Bible scholar, now a senior among Division Presidents.
What's unfortunate is that Bertil Wiklander, Ted Wison, Jan Paulsen and others received their highest theological training from the fallen churches of Babylon. Why they rejected Adventist education, we may never know. We may also never know how much of their own character and theology are not SDA, but Babylonian.
SDAminister
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Bertil Wiklander's father was also a pastor in Sweden. In his doctoral thesis Bertil demonstrated a thorough knowledge of the Book of Isaiah where he showed, as far as I remember, from the structure of the Hebrew language that the whole book was written by the same author, Isaiah himself, and it was not written by several authors, like some liberal theologians were claiming. So he is a thorough conservative Bible scholar, now a senior among Division Presidents.
What's unfortunate is that Bertil Wiklander, Ted Wison, Jan Paulsen and others received their highest theological training from the fallen churches of Babylon. Why they rejected Adventist education, we may never know. We may also never know how much of their own character and theology are not SDA, but Babylonian.
SDAminister
I didn't know that. Where did they get their degrees?
I haven't read it in a while, but I seem to recall Great Controversy mentioning that after recieving years of education in the mountains, the Waldenses would often send their kids to the Catholic universities for their higher education. In our case, the SDA church has a great educational system, but I suppose there may be some specialties we don't have.
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Bertil Wiklander's father was also a pastor in Sweden. In his doctoral thesis Bertil demonstrated a thorough knowledge of the Book of Isaiah where he showed, as far as I remember, from the structure of the Hebrew language that the whole book was written by the same author, Isaiah himself, and it was not written by several authors, like some liberal theologians were claiming. So he is a thorough conservative Bible scholar, now a senior among Division Presidents.
Let's assume what you state is correct. Do you believe that they were sent there to receive theological training?
What's unfortunate is that Bertil Wiklander, Ted Wison, Jan Paulsen and others received their highest theological training from the fallen churches of Babylon. Why they rejected Adventist education, we may never know. We may also never know how much of their own character and theology are not SDA, but Babylonian.
SDAminister
I didn't know that. Where did they get their degrees?
I haven't read it in a while, but I seem to recall Great Controversy mentioning that after recieving years of education in the mountains, the Waldenses would often send their kids to the Catholic universities for their higher education. In our case, the SDA church has a great educational system, but I suppose there may be some specialties we don't have.
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Bertil Wiklander's father was also a pastor in Sweden. In his doctoral thesis Bertil demonstrated a thorough knowledge of the Book of Isaiah where he showed, as far as I remember, from the structure of the Hebrew language that the whole book was written by the same author, Isaiah himself, and it was not written by several authors, like some liberal theologians were claiming. So he is a thorough conservative Bible scholar, now a senior among Division Presidents.
What's unfortunate is that Bertil Wiklander, Ted Wison, Jan Paulsen and others received their highest theological training from the fallen churches of Babylon. Why they rejected Adventist education, we may never know. We may also never know how much of their own character and theology are not SDA, but Babylonian.
SDAminister
In connection with these three individuals I am only able to tell you about the education of Jan Paulsen from personal observation. From many of his schoolmates I know that he attended the SDA secondary school Vejlefjord in Denmark. After that both us attended Emmanuel Missionary College, and from there both of us went to the Potomac Univesity in Washington DC, which later moved to Berrien Springs. There Jan Paulsen obtained the highest degree available anywhere at that time in Theology at a SDA institution.
Later both of us worked in Nigeria as Bible teachers, He at the SDA College of West Africa, while I was at the Ile-Ífe School of Nursing. After several years of Bible teaching Jan took his family with him to Southern Germany where he got his doctorate at the University of Thuebingen. As far as I recall there was no SDA university then which granted a doctorate in theology.
As far as I recall all of these three wrote a doctoral thesis defending some aspect of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, so you could say that they were conducting an evangelistic campaign within the world of education. If you were having an evangelistic campaign somewhere, would you make sure that only SDA would attend your meetings to prevent yourself from getting contaminated?
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Bertil Wiklander's father was also a pastor in Sweden. In his doctoral thesis Bertil demonstrated a thorough knowledge of the Book of Isaiah where he showed, as far as I remember, from the structure of the Hebrew language that the whole book was written by the same author, Isaiah himself, and it was not written by several authors, like some liberal theologians were claiming. So he is a thorough conservative Bible scholar, now a senior among Division Presidents.
What's unfortunate is that Bertil Wiklander, Ted Wison, Jan Paulsen and others received their highest theological training from the fallen churches of Babylon. Why they rejected Adventist education, we may never know. We may also never know how much of their own character and theology are not SDA, but Babylonian.
SDAminister
In connection with these three individuals I am only able to tell you about the education of Jan Paulsen from personal observation. From many of his schoolmates I know that he attended the SDA secondary school Vejlefjord in Denmark. After that both us attended Emmanuel Missionary College, and from there both of us went to the Potomac Univesity in Washington DC, which later moved to Berrien Springs. There Jan Paulsen obtained the highest degree available anywhere at that time in Theology at a SDA institution.
Later both of us worked in Nigeria as Bible teachers, He at the SDA College of West Africa, while I was at the Ile-Ífe School of Nursing. After several years of Bible teaching Jan took his family with him to Southern Germany where he got his doctorate at the University of Thuebingen. As far as I recall there was no SDA university then which granted a doctorate in theology.
As far as I recall all of these three wrote a doctoral thesis defending some aspect of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, so you could say that they were conducting an evangelistic campaign within the world of education. If you were having an evangelistic campaign somewhere, would you make sure that only SDA would attend your meetings to prevent yourself from getting contaminated?
I have yet to meet a single person who stated that the reason they studied theology from a Fallen-Churches-of-Babylon University was to evangelize them.
The only ones that say it are those, such as yourself, who engage in apologetics over it giving cover to a basic denial of Adventist education.
If a local SDA pastor or elder were to attend the pastoral training classes that the big Baptist church in town runs, they would be kicked out of the church. But if they pay $40K and get the same training at a place that has the word University in the name, then it's ok.
Ridiculous!
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I could add to this that I happen to know that in Sweden where Bertil Wiklander got is doctorate, most of the work is done by independent studies after which the professor gives you an oral exam. There is no formal class work involved. In between you attend seminars where doctoral students defend portions of the thesis they have written. At least this is how it has been done at the university of Lund. I also happen to know that Bible believing Christians from several other countries go to Sweden to get their doctorates there under favorable circumstances for those who do not want to be under undue pressure by the liberal theologians.
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SDA Minister, it looks like you meant to respond to my post but your response didn't go through. It just shows the quote part.
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Bertil Wiklander's father, Gösta Wiklander was not only a pastor in Sweden, he was also president in the Swedish Union (a combination of North and South Swedish SDA conferences)
Bertil Alfred - born in Göteborg in 1946. He is, since 1995, President of the Trans European
Division. He has a Doctor of Theology degree from the University of Uppsala, Sweden (1972).
But this doesn't tell us where he received his Batchor's and Master"s degree.
Our Universities did offer doctor degrees, so most went outside the SDA school system to get them.
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Bertil Wiklander's father, Gösta Wiklander was not only a pastor in Sweden, he was also president in the Swedish Union (a combination of North and South Swedish SDA conferences)
Bertil Alfred - born in Göteborg in 1946. He is, since 1995, President of the Trans European
Division. He has a Doctor of Theology degree from the University of Uppsala, Sweden (1972).
But this doesn't tell us where he received his Batchor's and Master"s degree.
Our Universities did offer doctor degrees, so most went outside the SDA school system to get them.
I think you meant to say: "Our Universities did not offer doctor degrees. . ." which is the reason our educators had to get their degrees elsewhere so that our schools could get the essential state license. M. L. Andreassen tells so humorously how he had to sneak away from the campus to get to the nearest university in between his teaching assignments at Union College. He indicates that Union College was on the verge of closing when he did this. Even old Emmanuel Missionary College had to have a certain percentage of their teachers with a doctoral degree in order to grant their own students a B. A. At that time there was only one SDA institute granting doctoral degrees, and that was Loma Linda - in medicine.
Men like Dr. E. R. Thiele and Dr. Siegfred Horn both got their doctoral degrees from non-SDA universities, and both of them made Adventism known throughout the word for their scholarship
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Men like Dr. E. R. Thiele and Dr. Siegfred Horn both got their doctoral degrees from non-SDA universities, and both of them made Adventism known throughout the word for their scholarship
I am corresponding with a gentleman now where I cite particularly Thiele.
However, it should be pointed out that while Ellen White did call for us to send particular students to other schools for evangelistic purposes, she did acknowledge the danger of doing so. Now I don't recall which of the above men was involved in the following story, but I believe one of them was: Some students in a class took exception to his maintaining that the earth's civilizations were older than 6000 years, and he at some point shut down the discussion. At a later class these students came in, marched to the front, and gave him their drop slips.
Whether it was Thiele or Horn, where did they ever get the idea that their own personal, private opinion should take precedence over inspiration, to the point that they felt they had license to teach their personal, private opinion as fact in an Adventist school, and disallow any challenge of that personal, private opinion? If the teacher who did this had never studied at a Babylonian school, would that incident have ever occurred? More importantly, why was this incident allowed to occur at an Adventist school?
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Bertil Wiklander's father, Gösta Wiklander was not only a pastor in Sweden, he was also president in the Swedish Union (a combination of North and South Swedish SDA conferences)
Bertil Alfred - born in Göteborg in 1946. He is, since 1995, President of the Trans European
Division. He has a Doctor of Theology degree from the University of Uppsala, Sweden (1972).
But this doesn't tell us where he received his Batchor's and Master"s degree.
Our Universities did offer doctor degrees, so most went outside the SDA school system to get them.
I think you meant to say: "Our Universities did not offer doctor degrees. . ."
You are correct --
Our Universities did NOT offer doctor degrees, so most went outside the SDA school system to get them.
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Thiele: He is best known for his book: THEYMYSTERIOUS NUMBRS OF THE HEBREW KINGS. That book set the standard for resolving the questions about the accuracy of the Bible in relation to the times when the kings of Judah and Isreal reigned. In summation, he convinced the academic world that the Bible was accurate in regard to its statements regarding the reigns of the Hebrew kings.
However, near the end of his life he went off into some issues and took some positions that greatly detracted from his previous works. In a sense, he demonstrated that with comming age one may lose some of their intellectual abilities.
Horn: He was an archaeologist. He steadfastly refused, both in his classroom and in private conversations to go outside of his field and to discuss issues raised by Genesis. He standard response was to tell people to ask such questions of people better able to expound upon them than he was able. I know. I was there.
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In the history of the SDA Church there are people who have made major contributions to the work of God on earth--far more than I will ever do. Yet, everyone of them has been human.
The human condition is that of contamination by sin. It is imperfection. It is a failure to have the total knowledge of what God wants for them. That is why the Holy Spirit spends the lifetime of each person teaching them. It is failure to live up to God's standard. It is a lack of belief. It is doubt of the power of God. It is contamination that is so deeply ingrained that it takes the power of God to remove and transform.
It appears to me that just about every time some one mentions a SDA (Dr. Running, Dr. Horn, Dr. Theile, etc) as haveing done something good for God and that SDA Church, that person becomes a target to attack. No one is perfect. It is likely that some of the attacks are valid. It may be said that they should be stripped of credentials, thrown out of the Chruch or some other punishment.
It appears to me that those making such attaacks are also imperfect. They also lack a fulloness of the knowledge of God. They also probably doubt and lack belief. I will suggest that I do not believe that the work of God is being done here by some of those who post here. In additon, as Snoopy once asked, who would want to spend eternity with a God that is as some present here. NOTE: Not an exact quote.
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Here is one comment on Thiele:
For centuries scholars have puzzled over the problem of Old Testament chronology. One of the most difficult issues has been the synchronization of the reign of the Hebrew kings. The biblical records provide much information about these kings and how they relate to each other. But when all the information is put together it seems contradictory, as early as the third century B.C. attempts were made to correct these seeming errors in the biblical text. Solutions to these difficulties appeard even more remote as scholarship succeeded in determining the exact dates of events in acient Babylon and Assyria, and these dates seemed to be in hopeless conflict with the Bible.
Dr. Edwin R. Thiele has addressed these issues and solved the problems related to the chronology of the Hebrew kings. By carefully studying the biblical data, he determined the dating methods of the early Hebrew scribes. By following the principles established by these scribes, Dr. Thiele has succeeded in producing a chronology that is consistent with the scriptural records and the records of other nations of the ancient world.
From its first publication this book has been recognized as a classic in the field of biblical studies. In this revised third edition Dr. Thiele reexamines the records in light of recent scholarship, explores more fully the Hebrew dual dating system, and offers a careful rebuttal to Shenkel's thesis that the Septuagint provides a more accurate chronology than the Masoretic Text does. This new material and the revised material from previous editions make this a book of great value to all students of the Bible.
NOTE: This book can be purchased today on Amazon and other places.
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Coments have been made in this forum to the effect that named people should have their credentials withdrawn, or they should be expelled from denominational membership, or some other such.
There is an orderly process that has been set up in the SDA Chruch to do such. Yes, as it has been said, the people in the seats are important. They should have a voice in denominational policy and practice. In fact, it is possible that they should have a larger voice. Regardless. there is a process that has been established. In that process, it is the local congregation that decides on membership. There are committees that decide on credentials. People who are accused should be given certain basic rights. They should not be conviced on hearsey evidence. The charges must be proven.
That is not being done by some who post here. The reality is that probably none of those who post here are in a position where they have been given the authority to make these decisions. THe process does not include comming to this public forum and making such statements. Yes, they may have a general right to freely expres their opinion. I do not deny that. But, in assumning the right to determine the conditions under which peole should have their credential taken from them and/or their church menbership, they have assumed a posiiton of authority that has not been given to them. They are not doing the work of God.
If they believe that God has called them to bring about the removal of credentials or membership, let them bring their charges before the people and/or committies that are properly able to make such decisions. It appears that they do not do so. If this is true, it looks to me like there is another agenda that is being followed, another purpose in their mind. Well, I cannot read minds. I can only say what it looks like to me.
Of course, there are sincere people here. People with whom I differ strongly may very well be sincere.
I wonder where this forum is going. Atriste and I differed. Where is she now? I have not recently read anything from her. Maybe she has been on vacation and will pop up tomorrow. A post has been made here that looks to me like a personal threat that if I do not fit the mold that the poster wanted, I will be banned. Based upon that post, I expected to be banned before now. Well, I haven't. So, I may have been wrong in my understanding of that post. In any case, what is wanted for this forum? Is this forum to be a place only those who agree on someones standard for belief are allowed here? I sense a lot of intoleration here. I guess those who own the forum can decide. That is their right.
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What issues did Theile later get into?
I have found his book very helpful. But it isn't infallible, his failure to note two invasions by Sennacherib being a case in point. But that doesn't detract from the extreme value of his work and his book.
Did Horn date post-Flood civilizations too early, such as before 2400 BC? If so, I don't think that telling students to go talk to someone else adequately addresses the problem. Claiming to not be qualified to discuss the chronology of Genesis is a poor excuse for giving bogus dates in a college classroom.
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It appears to me that just about every time some one mentions a SDA (Dr. Running, Dr. Horn, Dr. Theile, etc) as haveing done something good for God and that SDA Church, that person becomes a target to attack. No one is perfect.
True. And we should remember Ellen White's rebuke of the fellow who criticized the reformers in an article in one of our periodicals.
But undermining belief in the Bible and SoP in a college classroom goes directly contrary to the principles of Adventist Christian eduction, and it matters not what sort of accomplishments someone has if they are in fact doing that.
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Is this forum to be a place only those who agree on someones standard for belief are allowed here? I sense a lot of intoleration here.
Gregory, as you will recall, you out and out refused to make any effort to harmonize your publicly stated position with Acts 15 and 9T 260-261, and then stated that you would not allow someone else to frame the discussion. That certainly sounds intolerant to me.
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It is setting the boundaries as to how I will participate. Each person is entitled to set their boundaries and healthy people do.
Tolerance or intolerance is not involved.
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Here's a point to ponder...European Division affirms unity with the GC... NOW, don't we have to wonder if the NAD would or could do the same? And Why Has JACKSON NOT SPOKEN???
WHY have we not called an Emergency Meeting of the GC Executive Committee?
Simple answer, NO POILITICAL BACKBONE!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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It is setting the boundaries as to how I will participate. Each person is entitled to set their boundaries and healthy people do.
"Healthy people" who happen to be committed Seventh-day Adventists don't mind trying to explain how their position harmonizes with the Bible and SoP. They don't simply refuse to even address the matter.
Suppose a Protestant who claims to believe in sola scriptura states that Sunday is the Lord's day, and then is asked by a Seventh-day Adventist where in the Bible it says that, and how such a position can harmonize with Is. 58:13-14. Suppose then that that Protestant refuses to answer the question, and also states he refuses to allow someone else3 to "frame" the discussion. One could hardly call that person "healthy."
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Here's a point to ponder...European Division affirms unity with the GC... NOW, don't we have to wonder if the NAD would or could do the same? And Why Has JACKSON NOT SPOKEN???
WHY have we not called an Emergency Meeting of the GC Executive Committee?
Simple answer, NO POILITICAL BACKBONE!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
In light of all of this, all the Divisions should affirm unity with the GC. They are all in reality only divisions of the GC itself without any constituency of their own. The leadership of each division are elected into those positions at the GC Session itself.
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It is setting the boundaries as to how I will participate. Each person is entitled to set their boundaries and healthy people do.
"Healthy people" who happen to be committed Seventh-day Adventists don't mind trying to explain how their position harmonizes with the Bible and SoP. They don't simply refuse to even address the matter.
Suppose a Protestant who claims to believe in sola scriptura states that Sunday is the Lord's day, and then is asked by a Seventh-day Adventist where in the Bible it says that, and how such a position can harmonize with Is. 58:13-14. Suppose then that that Protestant refuses to answer the question, and also states he refuses to allow someone else3 to "frame" the discussion. One could hardly call that person "healthy."
I was not going to post here until next week, but it is impossible for me not to object to this post. Some of us had the privilege of reading textbooks for the ministry written by an author you may have heard of. Her name is Ellen G White. I feel the claim you make here is so much out of harmony with the principles we learned from her, that I have to object to your treating Gregory like that.
I will not be able to give you a short quotation to show you what is right or wrong here, except to tell you it is a principle based on a living relationship with Jesus Christ, which teaches you how to relate to people. Such a relationship has nothing to do with firing questions at people. If you would learn these principles - by reading all of the books Ellen White has written on gospel work and evangelism - you would know that asking this kind of question as you do here, you are not bringing that person into a relationship with Jesus Christ, you would be chasing them away from Christ.
I cannot teach you this in a discussion like this. This is an experience you have to gain through a living relationship with Christ - and by reading His prophets.
Gregory is right, and every soul winner must know that principle. Remember that when you meet your Catholic friend.
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Today our Conference President showed us pictures from this ministerial counsel from where this report came.
The Sabbath sermon was given by Pastor Whintley Phipps. Other speakers were Arthur Stele and Lowell Cooper, Vice Presidents of the GC, Mark Finley, and others.
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Today our Conference President showed us pictures from this ministerial counsel from where this report came.
The Sabbath sermon was given by Pastor Whintley Phipps. Other speakers were Arthur Stele and Lowell Cooper, Vice Presidents of the GC, Mark Finley, and others.
Nice to know, but what concrete aspect does it have to do with this thread?
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Today our Conference President showed us pictures from this ministerial counsel from where this report came.
The Sabbath sermon was given by Pastor Whintley Phipps. Other speakers were Arthur Stele and Lowell Cooper, Vice Presidents of the GC, Mark Finley, and others.
Nice to know, but what concrete aspect does it have to do with this thread?
Just to help give a total picture of this TEC conference with 1,200 pastors and spouses, where the president openly makes known his personal conviction that the ordination of women is fully in accord with the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy, but that he will wait for the GC to give its approval. It is also made clear that all of the union presidents within this division are in agreement that the ordination of women is in harmony with Scripture.
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Today our Conference President showed us pictures from this ministerial counsel from where this report came.
The Sabbath sermon was given by Pastor Whintley Phipps. Other speakers were Arthur Stele and Lowell Cooper, Vice Presidents of the GC, Mark Finley, and others.
Nice to know, but what concrete aspect does it have to do with this thread?
Just to help give a total picture of this TEC conference with 1,200 pastors and spouses, where the president openly makes known his personal conviction that the ordination of women is fully in accord with the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy, but that he will wait for the GC to give its approval. It is also made clear that all of the union presidents within this division are in agreement that the ordination of women is in harmony with Scripture.
How do you know that ALL the Union Presidents are in agreement that the ordination of women is in harmony with Scripture?
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Today our Conference President showed us pictures from this ministerial counsel from where this report came.
The Sabbath sermon was given by Pastor Whintley Phipps. Other speakers were Arthur Stele and Lowell Cooper, Vice Presidents of the GC, Mark Finley, and others.
Nice to know, but what concrete aspect does it have to do with this thread?
Just to help give a total picture of this TEC conference with 1,200 pastors and spouses, where the president openly makes known his personal conviction that the ordination of women is fully in accord with the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy, but that he will wait for the GC to give its approval. It is also made clear that all of the union presidents within this division are in agreement that the ordination of women is in harmony with Scripture.
How do you know that ALL the Union Presidents are in agreement that the ordination of women is in harmony with Scripture?
From the report of the president that has already been posted here. You will see that one union president was somewhat hesitant, and yet in agreement. . .
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Today our Conference President showed us pictures from this ministerial counsel from where this report came.
The Sabbath sermon was given by Pastor Whintley Phipps. Other speakers were Arthur Stele and Lowell Cooper, Vice Presidents of the GC, Mark Finley, and others.
Nice to know, but what concrete aspect does it have to do with this thread?
Just to help give a total picture of this TEC conference with 1,200 pastors and spouses, where the president openly makes known his personal conviction that the ordination of women is fully in accord with the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy, but that he will wait for the GC to give its approval. It is also made clear that all of the union presidents within this division are in agreement that the ordination of women is in harmony with Scripture.
How do you know that ALL the Union Presidents are in agreement that the ordination of women is in harmony with Scripture?
From the report of the president that has already been posted here. You will see that one union president was somewhat hesitant, and yet in agreement. . .
Are you referring to your very first post in the creation of this thread? If so, I can't find where that is stated there.
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It must be posted in another topic. But here it is in his report:
Of all the 11 unions today in the TED, only one union president stated that his union would not at present ordain women as pastors, even if it was permitted, but he had no objection to this being done in other unions.
http://www.ted-adventist.org/news/statement-on-womens-ordination-to-the-pastoral-ministry
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It must be posted in another topic. But here it is in his report:
Of all the 11 unions today in the TED, only one union president stated that his union would not at present ordain women as pastors, even if it was permitted, but he had no objection to this being done in other unions.
http://www.ted-adventist.org/news/statement-on-womens-ordination-to-the-pastoral-ministry
I don't see him saying that he is in agreement or that he thinks it is biblical. He just isn't objecting to it being done elsewhere.
But most importantly, the TED is on record that they will wait, and I think that is the only proper position to have at this time.
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Today's message from TED:
Trans-European Division
When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, 'I used everything you gave me'.
Erma Bombeck