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This statement is true and I know of specific examples of conservatives being guilty of this in the SDA Church

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Total Members Voted: 2

[Murcielago]

It is widely thought that Ted Wilson was put in office largely by constituency from South and Central America, Africa and Southern/Southeast Asia. It is also widely thought that his verbal stance on driving the church in a more conservative direction could be a bow to those constituents.

[princessdi]

This makes sense to me Murcielago, as these regions are pretty conservative.  However, as jise was stating in the beginning, this would make it mostlya political appointment, more than a spiritual one.  Not What we are supposed to be about, but nothing new.  GC basically did the samething at the 2005 Session when they we placated th fractions questioning GC representation in the area of minorities and women.  They naominated a AFrican American woman(please forgive me I have forgotten her name......It always reminds of me Rosa Park, but I know that it not it.....LOL!!!), in good corporate style, killing two birds with one stone.  now, i just looked at the leadership Pic on the site and there is a pretty good Representation as far a African Americans are concerned, but I do kind of notice the absence of anyone of Asian decent.........but progress is progress.  I just believe if we call ourselves a "world" church then our leadership ought to represent that claim.

My problem with all this is that God called us to be the head not the tail.  We needed to lead out in all
things, including racial equality.  In that area and of gender equality, we fall way behind what we arrogantly call "the world".

[mrst53]

Princess di,
 I don't want to offend you, but sometimes in trying to please everyone and being a "world church" doesn't that sometimes put pressure on people just to fill the spots and not necessarily find the most spirit filled person for the job? I am not a SDA member, but reading these posts, it sounds like they haven't been choosing the most "Chistian-like" people for the jobs. How long do the search for these people? Do people volunteer for these jobs? How exactly are they chosen?

I agree with you about Martin Luther King. I believe the man truly believed in what he was doing for the black people. How he treated he wife,was wrong, tho, but that was between him and her. I don't know if, had he lived he would have become like some of the other leaders or not. I hope not.

I am not sure whether it is conservatives, progressives or liberals who keep poor people poor.  I grew up poor. I am 57 years old. When I was a kid, my Mom made less than $3000 a year and $7000 was considered poverty level in VA. I don't know who was in the White House. I lived in houses that probably should have been condemned. I lived in one, that was a converted barn. It had so many roaches( and we were clean) that the exterminator said, we could burn it down, the roaches would leave while house was burning and then come back after the fire We paid $50.. a month to live in this place- but that was what we could afford- my dad was a drunk and we lived on what my Mom could make. I lived like this for 18 years--- so therefore, I lived thru several presidents, Democrats and Republicans- We stayed poor thru all of them- never got any richer, never got on any programs, never got any free food, food stamps, free medical care, NOTHING. Who kept us like this? I don't know. Liberals, Conservatives, Progressives?

I couldn't tell you, I just know we were poor.

[Murcielago]

Yes, MrsT, the labels are a matter of giving a person a sense of belonging and superiority. As a liberal, one feels superior to conservatives because "they have more compassion and view people in a more global manner." As a conservative, one feels superior to liberals because "they are more responsible and patriotic." People are by nature clannish, and tend to get their sense of security by tying their identity to a group. In the world of Liberal vs Conservative, there is no moral superiority on either side.

[princessdi]

No offense taken Mrst.  I am definitely not talking about any Affirmitive Action type of solution.  There are qualified minorities within our ranks.  There is a whopper of a story about why they didn't amke Dr. Calvin Rock(African American) GC President when he was most qualified at the time.  It actually took blacks picketing the 1958(?) GC Session in San Francisco for them to even consider hiring anyone black....an then they hired one.....E. E. Cleveland by the time the 60's rolled around.  had nothing for him to do, had secretaries to threated to quit than work under a black man, etc.  Here locally, there was only on black person working at the conference office and she was cleaning the building...........

More recently, 15 years ago they start the Net series in Satellite envangelism.  Problem one, very few minorities had satellite dishes, and on the right day you heard those in charge actually admitting that series was targeted toward {probably] upperclass whites, as their numbers were declining within the membership.  The presenters were whilte for many years.  Problem two, African America churches tend to be located in the "hood".  The members may move out and commute in for church, but they rarely leave the community, even if they rebuild.  Not a good place, or evangelism strategy for reaching poor minorities, disadvantaged blacks, who basically blame a good portio of their misfortune on the "white man".  Be it true or not, it is reality, there are trust issues there. We were "encouraged" to participate in this evangelistic effort, because there would be no evangelism monies sent for any other efforts, along with the requriement that the church had to purchase a then $5,000 satellite equipment.  Some of the the churches could not afford that.

Also after some years with only white pastors doing the seminiar, they asked Walter Pearson.  A good portion of white churches simp0ly refused to carry the New series that year.  I believe Doug Bachelor or Shawn Boonstra  had something shortly there after in which they did pariicipate.  We definitely stillhave our racial issues within the church, which is sad.

Wow, mrst, my upbringing was entirely different, but I know of people(some family), even in Calfiornia, who lived as you did.  they struggled, and you are right, it didn't matter who was in office.  i thinkit really doesn't make a difference.  As we see recently the republicans just flat out siad that if President Obama said the sky was blue, they wee going to maintain it was green, just because..............well, we haven't gotten a good reason yet.  Then when the president compromised with the Republicans ont he tax bill, the democrats,, for all their compasssion, were willing to allow milssions of jobless Americans lose the only source of income in Unemployment benefits because...............haven't gotten a good answer on that one yet either......sigh.  They ALL get into office and lose focus, and stasart putting priority on party politics, instead of what is right for the people they are suppoed to represent.  All are just filthy with special interest.

[christian]

Let me first start by saying that the man reported to be Martin Luther King Jr. being taped by Hoover is not even confirmed to be Martin Luther King Jr. Secondly, we are talking like we know he did it when in fact the man is dead and cannot speak to the validity of the tape recordings. BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO LEND CREEDENCE TO THINGS NOT PROVEN TRUE (CAPS MEANT FOR EMPHASIS ONLY).

What we can talk to with a certainty is to the great divide in the Adventist Church when it comes to color. And in a denomination that is predominately people of color we have yet to have a Black, Asian or Hispanic President. Not that it really matters to me personally but for those who see the church and its leaders as their rulers it bears weight. And a great deal of the reason for the continued prejudices that exist in the church is a continued lack of where the focus should be and a lack (I believe) of the Holy Spirit. Truly we see ourselves as the bearers of the truth and the people that hold the keys to the kingdom when in fact it is Jesus that holds the keys to the kingdom. I realize if I was naked or homeless or in need that by in large I could not go to the Church for help. Most of the people would label me as lazy or deserving of my condition as a reason to turn and walk away. There would be members who would drive by me in their cars, Lexis, Chrysler 300, Harley motorcycles etc... and I would  be left to struggle; and if I did get money I must pay my tithe or be confined to the gates of hell.

Princess di,
 I don't want to offend you, but sometimes in trying to please everyone and being a "world church" doesn't that sometimes put pressure on people just to fill the spots and not necessarily find the most spirit filled person for the job? I am not a SDA member, but reading these posts, it sounds like they haven't been choosing the most "Chistian-like" people for the jobs. How long do the search for these people? Do people volunteer for these jobs? How exactly are they chosen?

I agree with you about Martin Luther King. I believe the man truly believed in what he was doing for the black people. How he treated he wife,was wrong, tho, but that was between him and her. I don't know if, had he lived he would have become like some of the other leaders or not. I hope not.

I am not sure whether it is conservatives, progressives or liberals who keep poor people poor.  I grew up poor. I am 57 years old. When I was a kid, my Mom made less than $3000 a year and $7000 was considered poverty level in VA. I don't know who was in the White House. I lived in houses that probably should have been condemned. I lived in one, that was a converted barn. It had so many roaches( and we were clean) that the exterminator said, we could burn it down, the roaches would leave while house was burning and then come back after the fire We paid $50.. a month to live in this place- but that was what we could afford- my dad was a drunk and we lived on what my Mom could make. I lived like this for 18 years--- so therefore, I lived thru several presidents, Democrats and Republicans- We stayed poor thru all of them- never got any richer, never got on any programs, never got any free food, food stamps, free medical care, NOTHING. Who kept us like this? I don't know. Liberals, Conservatives, Progressives?

I couldn't tell you, I just know we were poor.

[Jise]

Quite busy today - but just wanted to add one comment.  In my opinion, Ted Wilson - the new GC President and other conservatives like him seem to from their actions applaud sociopathic behavior within the Church that by definition is amoral, immoral - and this is applauded and accepted without conscience.  It appears that the test for conservatism is whether or not one supports particular racial injustices or gender injustices rather than whether or not one adheres to the biblical code. In fact violation of the biblical code is accepted and mere form is trumpeted over actual following biblical codes.  It appears that if one believes in racial stereotypes or supports racial and gender injustices, this is tolerated by the Church hiearchy even if one is laizze faire with biblical standards.  "Liberals" who are not laizze faire with biblical standards are still unjustly stereotyped as such in my opinion by GC "leaders" such as Ted Wilson.

[princessdi]

Let me first start by saying that the man reported to be Martin Luther King Jr. being taped by Hoover is not even confirmed to be Martin Luther King Jr. Secondly, we are talking like we know he did it when in fact the man is dead and cannot speak to the validity of the tape recordings. BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO LEND CREEDENCE TO THINGS NOT PROVEN TRUE (CAPS MEANT FOR EMPHASIS ONLY).

You know I haven't even made up my mind about this really.  As I said, it came out and disappeared just a quickly.  if he did, it was between He and Coreta, and I didn't see her pakcing up to leave.  She like, I love it!.

What we can talk to with a certainty is to the great divide in the Adventist Church when it comes to color. And in a denomination that is predominately people of color we have yet to have a Black, Asian or Hispanic President. Not that it really matters to me personally but for those who see the church and its leaders as their rulers it bears weight. And a great deal of the reason for the continued prejudices that exist in the church is a continued lack of where the focus should be and a lack (I believe) of the Holy Spirit. Truly we see ourselves as the bearers of the truth and the people that hold the keys to the kingdom when in fact it is Jesus that holds the keys to the kingdom. I realize if I was naked or homeless or in need that by in large I could not go to the Church for help. Most of the people would label me as lazy or deserving of my condition as a reason to turn and walk away. There would be members who would drive by me in their cars, Lexis, Chrysler 300, Harley motorcycles etc... and I would  be left to struggle; and if I did get money I must pay my tithe or be confined to the gates of hell.

Now see, Christian, I wasn't going to go ALL the way there!  LOL! I figured I had said enough for the moment.  LOL!!  But you are absolutely right!


Edited formatting

[mrst53]

Guys,
There is not just racial prejudice in your church, I think it's probably in all churches. I have attended Baptist, Methodist, Episcopal,Catholic, Church of God, Church of Christ, you name it.. the only 3 churches that I have found that seem to have broken the racial barriers are the Catholic and the Mormon and the Jehovah Witnesses. The last 2, worry me. there are a few blacks in white Baptist churches and white Methodists, but for the most part, they are all white.  And when I have visited black Baptist churches, there are no whites, Why? When I have visited black Methodist churches, there are no whites, why?
princess di, are there whites in your church?
When I visited in black churches I was made to feel welcome, but as the only white person, I felt like a fish out of water, but I guess I could have gotten used to it, my son didn't want to. I loved the music and I could get used to the preaching. Every preacher is different. I liked the idea that women were deacons.  I grew up with blacks as my best friends because of the places I lived, they were the only ones who wanted to be my friends.I just don't understand why we don't worship together. Maybe it takes "forced" worship, like it took "forced schooling before we will worship together.
I know we worship differently. I like a church where I can shout "Amen,Praise the Lord" and raise my hands in praise. My mother on the other hand, is a very calm, quiet person. Finding a church to please both of us has been very difficult. I am not a "holy roller", but I don't mind a church that gets excited about our Lord and what He can do. God made our world  and we should praise our God, that has this kind of power.
  I am a conservative, but I am NOT a racist. I think there should be programs to help those that REALLY need it. I don't think that our Congress should continue to get raises when there are people standing in line for food and not knowing where their next meal is coming from. There are programs that should be installed, but wasted should be cut, too.

[tinka]

Mrst,
Religion in true version is a belief of deep love for our creator that does not require emotional outburst or actions but steady day after day. To discipline ourselves in meekness with calm steady devotion is one thing and uncontrolled emotions of every thing thinkable of religion is another for public view. "Emotion" is never religion that goes and comes in a moment and gone the next.

Mostly the reason for this is because if their "worship" in this style is most sincere raising the hands, etc. there will be some within the church that are not and totally unstable for religious timing in their own lives and cause them or set them off into "rolling" dancing, jibbering and whatever floats their boat for emotion ride including what a personal person told me sets them into a sexual high. In which my mouth gasped at that statement.

Go to church to worship in thankfulness, and humbleness that brings the joy into heart and soul as if you come into the presence of God. Angels cloak their face and hush or sing. and the other is to learn of Him. and yes, we are to keep our children and teach them respect from babes. All week they can play, run,work, hunt & trap, school, cut up and do all at anytime and believe me they did but my six knew what time it was on Sabbath worship and one blink of an eye from me or dad during the time of worship was all it took. It is reverance for God at His time -not ours. Just my way of understanding it and thoughts.

Your mother may have also thought this.

[christian]

I was in no way trying to say that prejudice only exist in the Adventist Church, I understand it is a systemic problem that faces all churches and America at large. But I was trying to contrast the Christian talk with the Christian walk. The model given of the true Christian church, in the bible, is different than the one that exist in the form of Adventism today. The proclivity of the whites towards blacks and visa versa exist as a remnants from slavery, even though it appears to be edentulous it is not. Instead the two sides justify there positions based on pass wrongs some even going as far to say the bible justifies their actions. But the reality is painfully evident, there is a lack of love for their brother because of the color or lack thereof in there skin.

We live in a mad mad world that is sometimes so crazy even the ones trying to maintain some sanity, if there is  any such thing, have to wonder. Why when the there is enough food to feed the entire world is anyone going hungry, much less 2/3 of the world, to bed. 

Guys,
There is not just racial prejudice in your church, I think it's probably in all churches. I have attended Baptist, Methodist, Episcopal,Catholic, Church of God, Church of Christ, you name it.. the only 3 churches that I have found that seem to have broken the racial barriers are the Catholic and the Mormon and the Jehovah Witnesses. The last 2, worry me. there are a few blacks in white Baptist churches and white Methodists, but for the most part, they are all white.  And when I have visited black Baptist churches, there are no whites, Why? When I have visited black Methodist churches, there are no whites, why?
princess di, are there whites in your church?
When I visited in black churches I was made to feel welcome, but as the only white person, I felt like a fish out of water, but I guess I could have gotten used to it, my son didn't want to. I loved the music and I could get used to the preaching. Every preacher is different. I liked the idea that women were deacons.  I grew up with blacks as my best friends because of the places I lived, they were the only ones who wanted to be my friends.I just don't understand why we don't worship together. Maybe it takes "forced" worship, like it took "forced schooling before we will worship together.
I know we worship differently. I like a church where I can shout "Amen,Praise the Lord" and raise my hands in praise. My mother on the other hand, is a very calm, quiet person. Finding a church to please both of us has been very difficult. I am not a "holy roller", but I don't mind a church that gets excited about our Lord and what He can do. God made our world  and we should praise our God, that has this kind of power.
  I am a conservative, but I am NOT a racist. I think there should be programs to help those that REALLY need it. I don't think that our Congress should continue to get raises when there are people standing in line for food and not knowing where their next meal is coming from. There are programs that should be installed, but wasted should be cut, too.

[Johann]

I was in no way trying to say that prejudice only exist in the Adventist Church, I understand it is a systemic problem that faces all churches and America at large. But I was trying to contrast the Christian talk with the Christian walk. The model given of the true Christian church, in the bible, is different than the one that exist in the form of Adventism today. The proclivity of the whites towards blacks and visa versa exist as a remnants from slavery, even though it appears to be edentulous it is not. Instead the two sides justify there positions based on pass wrongs some even going as far to say the bible justifies their actions. But the reality is painfully evident, there is a lack of love for their brother because of the color or lack thereof in there skin.

We live in a mad mad world that is sometimes so crazy even the ones trying to maintain some sanity, if there is  any such thing, have to wonder. Why when the there is enough food to feed the entire world is anyone going hungry, much less 2/3 of the world, to bed. 

Guys,
There is not just racial prejudice in your church, I think it's probably in all churches. I have attended Baptist, Methodist, Episcopal,Catholic, Church of God, Church of Christ, you name it.. the only 3 churches that I have found that seem to have broken the racial barriers are the Catholic and the Mormon and the Jehovah Witnesses. The last 2, worry me. there are a few blacks in white Baptist churches and white Methodists, but for the most part, they are all white.  And when I have visited black Baptist churches, there are no whites, Why? When I have visited black Methodist churches, there are no whites, why?
princess di, are there whites in your church?
When I visited in black churches I was made to feel welcome, but as the only white person, I felt like a fish out of water, but I guess I could have gotten used to it, my son didn't want to. I loved the music and I could get used to the preaching. Every preacher is different. I liked the idea that women were deacons.  I grew up with blacks as my best friends because of the places I lived, they were the only ones who wanted to be my friends.I just don't understand why we don't worship together. Maybe it takes "forced" worship, like it took "forced schooling before we will worship together.
I know we worship differently. I like a church where I can shout "Amen,Praise the Lord" and raise my hands in praise. My mother on the other hand, is a very calm, quiet person. Finding a church to please both of us has been very difficult. I am not a "holy roller", but I don't mind a church that gets excited about our Lord and what He can do. God made our world  and we should praise our God, that has this kind of power.
  I am a conservative, but I am NOT a racist. I think there should be programs to help those that REALLY need it. I don't think that our Congress should continue to get raises when there are people standing in line for food and not knowing where their next meal is coming from. There are programs that should be installed, but wasted should be cut, too.

We do live in a sinful world where evil attacks us from all sides.

[princessdi]

This is an excellent question!  We used to have quite an international congregation, including whites.  They felt very welcome, but things just happened, they moved on usually away too far to attend our church. But they actually came because they felt comfortable.  In fact, when some conference officials come to speak at our their wives are usually very moved by our service(which are not typical SDA, by a long shot and we don't hide it), and actually say they wish they could come there more often.

We don't have a problem with it at all.  Now, there are somewhat "mixed" churches in our area, with whites, blacks, Asians, Hispanics, you name it. However, there are also, white churches in this area who don't welcome blacks at all. my Mom and Pop had a very interesting experience at one when wewere staying at out timeshare one time.

Guys,
princess di, are there whites in your church?

[christian]

There will be many a suppose Christian lost because of the Sabbath. The Sabbath seems to give rise to a lot of people who are mean and evil, BUT THEY KEEP THE SABBATH. They find safety in the fact that they attend church on Sabbath but the weightier portions of the law, meekness, kindness, gentleness and down outright love they are barren as the desert is of water. They are receiving the mark of the beast and are identified by the saying of those with the mark in there hand. They go to church on the sabbath and work, work at being evil, work at being holy, work at drumming up the Holy Spirit, and work at being saved. They never really die to self because they keep the sabbath and when wrongs are pointed out in their character they cannot except it because,they keep the sabbath. That is why the church remains in the dire condition it is in because of the sabbath.How can you tell someone they are lost when they think they are saved because they keep the sabbath. Obviously, being prejudice, unloving, gossipers, and just down right mean and hateful take a back seat to sabbath keeping.

Mrst,
Religion in true version is a belief of deep love for our creator that does not require emotional outburst or actions but steady day after day. To discipline ourselves in meekness with calm steady devotion is one thing and uncontrolled emotions of every thing thinkable of religion is another for public view. "Emotion" is never religion that goes and comes in a moment and gone the next.

Mostly the reason for this is because if their "worship" in this style is most sincere raising the hands, etc. there will be some within the church that are not and totally unstable for religious timing in their own lives and cause them or set them off into "rolling" dancing, jibbering and whatever floats their boat for emotion ride including what a personal person told me sets them into a sexual high. In which my mouth gasped at that statement.

Go to church to worship in thankfulness, and humbleness that brings the joy into heart and soul as if you come into the presence of God. Angels cloak their face and hush or sing. and the other is to learn of Him. and yes, we are to keep our children and teach them respect from babes. All week they can play, run,work, hunt & trap, school, cut up and do all at anytime and believe me they did but my six knew what time it was on Sabbath worship and one blink of an eye from me or dad during the time of worship was all it took. It is reverance for God at His time -not ours. Just my way of understanding it and thoughts.

Your mother may have also thought this.

[tinka]

Racism is only in the mind of a beholder that can't begin to know the heart of non racist because of their own self feeling of less equality taught by history and not the word of God. Therefore they look for every aspect to prove it using past history, where they will never rise above it unless they themselves will put past, importance of color, and all facts of history of man's sins behind them. One thing that can explain this evil as an example is the act of Crucifixion against Jesus. I sure do give thanks that he is not a racist against us. There never was a slave white or black in all eras of time that was worse then this as many whites were burned at the stake. Until all differences in color are made void there will be those that cannot come under the banner of Christ because they recall, recall recall and put their skin color to the task. It is of no importance!!!

Racism in ones own heart does bring on other self hidden agenda's of sin.  Such as over acting of equality instead of all in unity. Bible verses do not give differences for different cultures. Just the fact of using a different way of English speaking that all were trained the same since 1st grade. Difference in dress, Difference in walk, Difference in worship & music, flamboyant to show better equality. A non racist is easier detected by their non attention taking gimmicks which causes a meek christian to shy away as the overbearing sins take advance. Unity in their actions and a true Christian is in unity with the will that God presents and not a difference in culture. For some reason flamboyancy and meekness just don't match anymore then rings and things with bells and bows match the calm, meekness, and refined respect that is observed in differences of worship of unity defined. We are Americans --not African Americans --not Italion Americans--not German Americans. Who cares what and how we got here.  We were given this great Nation to be Americans in Unity we were given the Bible to be in unity and some just do not get it. History is past and we were given opportunity to be in Unity!! Yes the devil took it for a turn or two but some men fought it and won it for the opportunity of all.  Racism??? Only in the mind of a racist behind in all else that matters doing their own agendas. That is --what is not going through the gates. God made man in all color and left me without any but pale white. So what am I to do or believe about it when I very much love color(laugh) "Nothing"!!! or should I color my hair (white too) and give my face some big makup?? with some bells and bows to match?? Of course it might be a waste of money to do this. So the inner things are all acountable too in vanity--arent they??