Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Ozzie on May 08, 2008, 08:14:15 PM
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Shouldn't Bluehost be given some type of legal warning for having so quickly and easily responded to the subpeona without even questioning its validity?
Personally, I would have favored crucifying them, but that would have been bad legal strategy. You want to claw back the information and make it of noen affect and therefore the target needs to be the perpatrator and have Blue Host an ally.
Since Linda Shelton has been served by 3ABN, it now seems clear they are unlikely to pursue their effort to serve the subpoena on Black SDA for yet a third time. They will now simply try to get the information from the party they were really after, Linda Shelton.
Best of luck, 3ABN!!! You have opened pandora's box now!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
I seem to remember a song with a title something along the lines of "When will they ever learn"? :scratch:
I can't believe what 'slow learners' these people are. ???
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Edited only to rename this newly split topic.
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As I do not have any reason to doubt what Bob Pickle said, I am not going to be the one to spend any money on this, therefore, until somebody secures the transcript and shares it with us here, I consider this matter closed.
It would seem that Grandma Nettie's friend was prescient as Linda Sue Shelton has been served.
Hm-m-m-m!!! How could that be Grandma? Have connections do you?
Linda Sue Shelton will now be hiring a second attorney to preserve her interests and to stake her claims against the 3ABN Board members that have haunted her needlessly for nearly four years.
They have opened pandora's box...when will they ever learn!!!!
It is time for Linda Sue Shelton to BITE BACK!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Yes, I am told that someone called and asked if she was home to take delivery of a package. When she asked who it was from, the delivery guy SAID he had no idea!!! Imagine that, a delivery guy that could not tell you where the package came from??? Homeland Security would have freaked about that!!!
And when he arrived he had a lovely little surprise: A notice to appear and a subpoena duces teacum. If you have written to Linda, Danny wants to know!!! And he wants to read the little
jewels.
Since Linda had already been warned by Grandma Nettie's friend that she will be a party to the lawsuite, this will open pandora's box. Linda Sue Shelton will need to hire yet another lawyer, but she will finally get her due process and will be able, finally, to demand to see all that illusive evidence 3ABN have claimed to have had for so long.
This is just the beginning of a new ERA and a whole lot more action. Get's interesting from here!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Has Linda had any invites lately to sing anywhere?
Linda has had invites to sing and they will increase with time.
In fact, 3ABN has served her and "Invited her to SING" but not the gospels tunes she is so well known for. At least they are hoping she will sing...but much to their chagrin she does not have much to sing about!!! At least nothing they really want to hear. What is the statement that Marine Colonel is so well known for: "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!".
I would guess it will be something along those lines.
Linda is now forced to hire yet another lawyer and to defend herself. The Good News is this time there will be due process!!! She will finally get her day in court!!! She will finally get to see the illusory evidence, if it exists.
Let's see, what does Linda have for potential torts? Well, let's start with defamation, slander, malicious interference with a contractural relationship, stalking, conspiracy...hm-m-m-m-m...any other ideas?
Why don't we have Grandma Nettie ask her friend if she could add to this...or does she have a conflict? Really could use some help here???
If Linda is wise, she will make Danny Loyalist and 3ABN Chairman Dr. Walter Thompson, Suite-happy politico Garwin McNeilus and Danny supporter and funder Merlin Fjarli rue the day they picked up the phone to call the Walla Walla four!!!
And how about the day four years ago when they bounced her out behind her back??? I wish nightmares on them all. They deserve a very bad dream, or two or three, etc!!!.
Stay tuned as it gets interesting from here!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
Praise God. About time that Linda had a fair go in all this disgusting saga. Praying for her. :praying:
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Well, well, well. Fancy them even inviting Linda to bring along her letters. Didn't they realise just what that would do? Well, Linda will finally get her day in Court, and then we'll see the others squirm. :oops:
This is the best news I've heard in ages. Looking forward to updates from our Reporter here.
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Why in the world do they want to read Danny Shelton calling Dr. Arild Abrahamsen in those letters a pile of ****?? ??
That's could be enough to burst anyone's bubble who thinks he's the Lord's anointed.
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Why in the world do they want to read Danny Shelton calling Dr. Arild Abrahamsen in those letters a pile of ****?? ??
That's could be enough to burst anyone's bubble who thinks he's the Lord's anointed.
Rather amazing isn't it, that they'd want the world to see that?
Maybe, the delusional 'Lord's anointed', might 'fess up before that all happens, to save face? Do you think that is likely Bob or Gailon?
I know it would be out of character for Moses/anointed/Danny/whoever, but it might be the thing to turn on a light globe in his head and help him understand what reality is.
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If you have written to Linda, Danny wants to know!!! And he wants to read the little
jewels.
I rather suspect that there's be a wee bit of disappointment on the Danny front. :oops: After all, he's looking for proof that Linda is behind all the internet postings!! :ROFL:
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Linda Shelton has now been served?
For what purpose has Linda Shelton been served?
What do they hope to accomplish?
It will be interesting to see what develops as a result of this.
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I have merged posts about this from three other topics into this one, therefore, let us try and keep this all in this one topic.
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Linda Shelton has now been served?
For what purpose has Linda Shelton been served?
What do they hope to accomplish?
It will be interesting to see what develops as a result of this.
Frankly I have expected she would be for quite some time. It's my thought anyone who has read the complaint served on Mr Pickle and Mr Joy in the lawsuit should have expected it... If any somehow missed her name being included in that then they should go back and read it again.
If any have somehow missed how many times her name has come up in these forum discussions then they must be blind...
If Mr Joy is accurately portraying what the subpoena is all about than it seems the lawyers want to ask her questions and get information from her related to the lawsuit.
This is something both sides in the case will be doing and is not unusual, underhanded, mean or a witch hunt etc
I think it would be a good thing if, as in many things here, people could avoid speculating or surmising and making mountains out of moleholes, and (or) making threats and issuing dire warnings when not much beyond that is known here.
It will no doubt be revealed in time as more facts are made known and the case progresses.
Make sense?
And yes I agree, it is interesting.
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Why in the world do they want to read Danny Shelton calling Dr. Arild Abrahamsen in those letters a pile of ****?? ??
That's could be enough to burst anyone's bubble who thinks he's the Lord's anointed.
It's my prayer we all answer the Lord's calling and are anointed, for God's people are all equally important and needed to help finish the work... HIS work.
FYI for any who might think Mr Pickle is indicating Danny Shelton was swearing in his private letters to Linda Shelton. and is editing that out to avoid offending anyone:
That isn't the case. Mr Pickle is apparently offended by the word "poop"... Then again he also seemed to be offended by the biblical word "dung" in those private letters which he and Joy, and all the mirror save3abn sites published...
In my mind that is all petty bovine excretia...
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Ian, you have to note, though, that I think 3ABN's attorneys are in possession of an email from Linda from more than two years ago in which she says that she can't break her silence since that would violate her gag order contract. Why then would they think she was posting anywhere and everywhere? Are they grasping at straws?
Besides, any violations of her contract, I think, would have to be prior to January 1, 2007, since there are no stated penalties in the contract for violations after that date.
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Ian, you have to note, though, that I think 3ABN's attorneys are in possession of an email from Linda from more than two years ago in which she says that she can't break her silence since that would violate her gag order contract. Why then would they think she was posting anywhere and everywhere? Are they grasping at straws?
Besides, any violations of her contract, I think, would have to be prior to January 1, 2007, since there are no stated penalties in the contract for violations after that date.
Folks,
I don't have to note anything.
Frankly I have no idea what Mr Pickle is talking about, where he got this, why he thinks any of this relevant, or what his point is...
I do know the so called gag order expired b4 the lawsuit was filed...as should anyone who read what was in reality a standard separation agreement.
It is also my personal opinion that anyone who thinks that what Linda Shelton has to say about this lawsuit, or that questions ro her, and information from her are not relevant, is either willfully blind or ignorant.
Truth is truth, let's not avoid that, or pretend we shouldn't as Christians "prove all things and hold fast that which is good"
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If you have no idea what I am talking about, why are you commenting?
The suit claims that Linda gave us all this negative info, and I think there is evidence that they want to construe that to be a violation of her separation agreement. Yet the other side has an email from her to someone else in which she said she couldn't do that.
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Praise God!
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As I merged more posts into this topic from another topic, Fran's post may seem out of place, therefore, Fran can expand on what she posted here, if she so chooses.
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I have the notion that Linda is of great courage. The outlook for her looks good. Seems like the Lord is opening up for her a much greater help in this situation than she had ever hoped for. The Lord is good. When you know you are being falsely accused of evil the Lord will give strength, wisdom, and hope. We cling to His promises that we are not to worry when they make false accusations against us.
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Why in the world do they want to read Danny Shelton calling Dr. Arild Abrahamsen in those letters a pile of ****?? ??
That's could be enough to burst anyone's bubble who thinks he's the Lord's anointed.
Rather amazing isn't it, that they'd want the world to see that?
Maybe, the delusional 'Lord's anointed', might 'fess up before that all happens, to save face? Do you think that is likely Bob or Gailon?
I know it would be out of character for Moses/anointed/Danny/whoever, but it might be the thing to turn on a light globe in his head and help him understand what reality is.
This is not a reasonable expectation. The history just does not support such hypothesis. Sorry.
Regretfully Yours,
Gailon Arthur joy
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Frankly I have expected she would be for quite some time. It's my thought anyone who has read the complaint served on Mr Pickle and Mr Joy in the lawsuit should have expected it... If any somehow missed her name being included in that then they should go back and read it again.
If any have somehow missed how many times her name has come up in these forum discussions then they must be blind...
If Mr Joy is accurately portraying what the subpoena is all about than it seems the lawyers want to ask her questions and get information from her related to the lawsuit.
This is something both sides in the case will be doing and is not unusual, underhanded, mean or a witch hunt etc
I think it would be a good thing if, as in many things here, people could avoid speculating or surmising and making mountains out of moleholes, and (or) making threats and issuing dire warnings when not much beyond that is known here.
It will no doubt be revealed in time as more facts are made known and the case progresses.
Make sense?
And yes I agree, it is interesting.
Are you telling me you do not have a copy of the Service of Process documents? Ian, you are so falling behind...must be your Ohio friend is away or I am certain we would have complete documents to post and some legal analysis to twist.
I have also been waiting for you to responde to the potential cross-claims as a result of board member actions. Let me re-state my initial thoughts on this:
Let's see, what does Linda have for potential torts? Well, let's start with defamation, slander, malicious interference with a contractural relationship, stalking, conspiracy...hm-m-m-m-m...any other ideas?
Really could use some help here???
Are you assuming these are threats or dire predictions? Get real, there would be no reason to inquisition Linda if they were not conducting a witch-hunt. Any thoughts or analysis?
Gailon Arthur Joy
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I was praising God because Linda has now been given the opportunity to speak freely for herself. My post was moved and was placed totally out of context. I had replied to a statement Gailon made.
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Frankly I have expected she would be for quite some time. It's my thought anyone who has read the complaint served on Mr Pickle and Mr Joy in the lawsuit should have expected it... If any somehow missed her name being included in that then they should go back and read it again.
If any have somehow missed how many times her name has come up in these forum discussions then they must be blind...
If Mr Joy is accurately portraying what the subpoena is all about than it seems the lawyers want to ask her questions and get information from her related to the lawsuit.
This is something both sides in the case will be doing and is not unusual, underhanded, mean or a witch hunt etc
I think it would be a good thing if, as in many things here, people could avoid speculating or surmising and making mountains out of moleholes, and (or) making threats and issuing dire warnings when not much beyond that is known here.
It will no doubt be revealed in time as more facts are made known and the case progresses.
Make sense?
And yes I agree, it is interesting.
Are you telling me you do not have a copy of the Service of Process documents? Ian, you are so falling behind...must be your Ohio friend is away or I am certain we would have complete documents to post and some legal analysis to twist.
I really detest insinuations and stabs in the dark, and phishing expeditions.
Based on what I know, it looks to me like GAJ is just making false assumptions and jumping to false conclusions and making unsupported statements .. I have many friends, none tell me what to think or post...
To clarify, there is nothing on PACER regarding this, which is where I usually get info. or I would have quoted it already...
I have also been waiting for you to responde to the potential cross-claims as a result of board member actions. Let me re-state my initial thoughts on this:
Let's see, what does Linda have for potential torts? Well, let's start with defamation, slander, malicious interference with a contractural relationship, stalking, conspiracy...hm-m-m-m-m...any other ideas?
Really could use some help here???
Are you assuming these are threats or dire predictions? Get real, there would be no reason to inquisition Linda if they were not conducting a witch-hunt. Any thoughts or analysis?
Gailon Arthur Joy
See above.
I would hope that whatever Linda Shelton says, does, or decides is her decision and that Gailon Joy is speaking out of turn..
And that all on both sides of these issues pray and surrender self, and put the Lord and his will and ways first, and act in love and wisdom, and in an informed manner. (His)
For without him we are all losers, and it will be very difficult to resolve all this.
That's all I have to say in this regard..
I wish all a Happy and Blessed Sabbath... :)
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And that all on both sides of these issues pray and surrender self, and put the Lord and his will and ways first, and act in love and wisdom, and in an informed manner. (His)
For without him we are all losers, and it will be very difficult to resolve all this.
Wise words. If this is done, 3ABN and Danny Shelton will start issuing apologies and stop suing and intimidating people over their honest concerns.
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And that all on both sides of these issues pray and surrender self, and put the Lord and his will and ways first, and act in love and wisdom, and in an informed manner. (His)
For without him we are all losers, and it will be very difficult to resolve all this.
Wise words. If this is done, 3ABN and Danny Shelton will start issuing apologies and stop suing and intimidating people over their honest concerns.
But... please don't hold you breath Bob, for him to do it. It's a nice thought, but as Gailon pointed out somewhere, most unlikely to happen.
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"I really detest insinuations and stabs in the dark, and phishing expeditions.
Based on what I know, it looks to me like GAJ is just making false assumptions and jumping to false conclusions and making unsupported statements .. I have many friends, none tell me what to think or post...
To clarify, there is nothing on PACER regarding this, which is where I usually get info. or I would have quoted it already..." IAN
Ms Ian, you have been quite well informed on the Family Court Case as well. Did you find that on PACER as well? And where did the analysis come from?
You and I both know Illinois Family Court cases are not on Pacer or online. So, how would you like to be a bit more forthcoming and tell us your source there? Or do you have to call a friend to decide what to post as an answer to this rather problematic question?
Gailon Arthur Joy
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"I would hope that whatever Linda Shelton says, does, or decides is her decision and that Gailon Joy is speaking out of turn..
And that all on both sides of these issues pray and surrender self, and put the Lord and his will and ways first, and act in love and wisdom, and in an informed manner. (His)..." IAN
And just how is that analysis out of turn...never thought of the implications of the foolishness of the fearsome three on the 3ABN Board? Believe me, right lawyer, big bucks. It is such outrageous and egregiously malicious activity, and without provocation, that it may even qualify for punitive damages. Just ask you friend in Ohio. Wonder if the rest of the board repudiates this activity, or will they all hang together, circle the wagons and make it a corporate liability? Any Insight IAN?
By the way, I find it interesting you have chosen to invoke prayer and surrender now that there is clear outrageous, malicious and obnoxious behaviour by 3ABN Directors. Where was this invocation
for the past twelve months?
For the record, we wish that prayer and surrender had been the course 3ABN had taken a year ago.
But it was not!!! Now they REAP THE WHIRLWIND!!!
Remember, Ian, Love is a balance of mercy and justice. 3ABN and Danny Lee Shelton have shown no mercy and now they reap the justice. It has been four years incoming but the Lord's justice is sure!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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First of all Gailon, my comment about PACER was in reference to the lawsuit and your Bankruptcy case etc.. I have said and posted very little about the divorce, and most of what I have said about it has come right from these forums and your own website. And you really shouldn't speak for me, for the divorce case IS online, and I have quoted from it on the rare occasions it was referred to and even given the links to that in the past. -- Any can get the records thru the clerk.
Second I have been praying for all involved in this for over that year that you refer to... and in my opinion it is precisely because of the spirit that you and your comrade Mr Pickle display that this lawsuit is necessary and this couldn't be resolved long since. Always seeing what others need to do and accusing, and making demands and dictating conditions, and never apparently examining yourselves or even seeing the need. I find that very sad and extremely arrogant.
As far as I am concerned 3ABN, altho not perfect has always tried to do all in a prayerful and christian manner, but it takes 2 sides to do that, and you are all demands and accusations and can't be reasoned with.
That along with the way you continually keep adding things and coming up with the same wrong answers is why I have no intention in getting into anymore tit for tats with you, or continually have to reply in a personally defensive manner due to the confrontational and accusatory nature and spirit of your words posts and writings. That is far from the "come let us reason together" attitude that I am acquainted with from my Lord and brethren.
Ian
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Second I have been praying for all involved in this for over that year that you refer to... and in my opinion it is precisely because of the spirit that you and your comrade Mr Pickle display that this lawsuit is necessary and this couldn't be resolved long since. Always seeing what others need to do and accusing, and making demands and dictating conditions, and never apparently examining yourselves or even seeing the need. I find that very sad and extremely arrogant.
When the average person compares what Danny et. al. has said and done with what we have said, they will find much less fault with us than with his side. He covered up child molestation allegations. We did not. He divorced his wife without biblical grounds. We did not. He bought a house from 3ABN for $6,139 and sold it for $135,000 one week later. We did not. We wanted ASI to look into all the various issues. He did not.
Remember when Lee on BlackSDA on Jan. 3, 2007, tried to argue that Tommy Shelton was in the clear because 6 of the 7 boys weren't minors, and the one minor may have been consenting? Besides getting the number of minors wrong, she refused to back down from that statement, and she is supposed to be a conservative.
What sort of spirit would a conservative have to have in order to excuse pedophilia on the grounds that the minor may have been consenting? And then refuse to back down?
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Remember when Lee on BlackSDA on Jan. 3, 2007, tried to argue that Tommy Shelton was in the clear because 6 of the 7 boys weren't minors, and the one minor may have been consenting? Besides getting the number of minors wrong, she refused to back down from that statement, and she is supposed to be a conservative.
What sort of spirit would a conservative have to have in order to excuse pedophilia on the grounds that the minor may have been consenting? And then refuse to back down?
Bob, I have not found that a person's position on the conservative<----->liberal continuum has much to do with their understanding of the issues involved in peophilia. I grew up in conservatism and there was molestation and cover-ups that I could name. I have "liberal" friends who are much more aware and educated than the people I grew up with. And some that are not. In fact, some of the most dogmatic conservatives I have known have been found later to have been covering up immorality in their own life, pretending to be totally pure and virtually sinless, while hidden abuse was going on.
More likely, people who downplay abuse are being affected by the standards they grew up with. If someone had abuse in their family and surroundings as they were growing up, they believe it is "normal" and not that big a deal. Or if they were abused, they tend to downplay it's affects on others because they don't want to admit that it affected them, unless they have become educated since they became adults. And certainly if they have abused others in any way, they will downplay and tapdance, because to call it what it is, they would have to face the fact that they themselves are abusers, and they are not usually willing to do that.
scratsmom :hamster:
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Edited to separate original post from quoted post/s.
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Well, I find this whole thing totally disgusting.
I grew up around people eating pork, I ate pork, but that doesn't mean I downplay the evil results and potentially eternal consequences of disobeying God's commands in the Bible by eating pork.
I also grew up around people who kept Sunday and went to confession and thought that the priest could turn the bread into Jesus, and I kept Sunday and went to confession and probably thought the same. But that doesn't mean that I excuse or palliate such gross departures from Scripture.
People who teach that obedience is required and that perfection of character is possible and who prize theological and lifestyle correctness, and yet who can't stand up against such a gross, despicable evil, I wouldn't know how to claim them as conservatives. Sounds like rank hypocrisy to me.
So, scratsmom, you think one of the three possibilities you mentioned is the problem behind the silence or the excuses or the justifications?
Lee, are you around? What do you think of scratsmom's comments? Do they apply to you in any way?
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I doubt if it is a conservative or liberal problem. Both will cover their own immoral acts in this and speak out against.
Liberal's have their own reasons for turning a blind eye to somethinglike this and it usually goes along the lines of......
Well you know all have sinned,if you haven't cast the first stone
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Bob, I have not found that a person's position on the conservative<----->liberal continuum has much to do with their understanding of the issues involved in peophilia. I grew up in conservatism and there was molestation and cover-ups that I could name. I have "liberal" friends who are much more aware and educated than the people I grew up with. And some that are not. In fact, some of the most dogmatic conservatives I have known have been found later to have been covering up immorality in their own life, pretending to be totally pure and virtually sinless, while hidden abuse was going on.
It would be well for all to wrap their brains around your statements, scratsmom. Beautifully put, IMO!
Far too often we look at the facade a person presents and make the judgement that it represents the heart and mind of that person. This is the inherent problem with labels or classifications such as "Conservative" or "Liberal". It is also the way of thinking that is foundational to providing victims to those who abuse their positions of trust, such as a pastor. Too many assume that conservative equals pure and safe.
More likely, people who downplay abuse are being affected by the standards they grew up with. If someone had abuse in their family and surroundings as they were growing up, they believe it is "normal" and not that big a deal. Or if they were abused, they tend to downplay it's affects on others because they don't want to admit that it affected them, unless they have become educated since they became adults. And certainly if they have abused others in any way, they will downplay and tapdance, because to call it what it is, they would have to face the fact that they themselves are abusers, and they are not usually willing to do that.
scratsmom :hamster:
Sadly, you are right on point here. Abusive family systems become a generational family tradition.
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Well, I find this whole thing totally disgusting.
I grew up around people eating pork, I ate pork, but that doesn't mean I downplay the evil results and potentially eternal consequences of disobeying God's commands in the Bible by eating pork.
I also grew up around people who kept Sunday and went to confession and thought that the priest could turn the bread into Jesus, and I kept Sunday and went to confession and probably thought the same. But that doesn't mean that I excuse or palliate such gross departures from Scripture.
People who teach that obedience is required and that perfection of character is possible and who prize theological and lifestyle correctness, and yet who can't stand up against such a gross, despicable evil, I wouldn't know how to claim them as conservatives. Sounds like rank hypocrisy to me.
So, scratsmom, you think one of the three possibilities you mentioned is the problem behind the silence or the excuses or the justifications?
Lee, are you around? What do you think of scratsmom's comments? Do they apply to you in any way?
Bob, did you intentionally compare eating pork or worshipping on Sunday to sexual abuse of any kind?
I understand that sin is sin and any sin separates the sinner from God, but to even compare these two personal choice issues to the devastatingly damaging effects of sexual abuse on the abused as well as the abuser is completely abhorant.
I think the basic problem here is that you are not differentiating between an individual's world view when it comes to religion or politics and abberant behavior caused by a disconnect in proper reasoning.
IMO, it is faulty reasoning to have the expectation that a conservative will refrain from such disgusting behavior. Do you expect that a liberal would be more likely to behave in this awful manner? That is the implication in the way you present this. Again, that would be faulty reasoning. As scratsmom said, this is not a conservative or liberal issue.
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As far as I am concerned 3ABN, altho not perfect has always tried to do all in a prayerful and christian manner
Wow! A most amazing statement! :o
Your "prayerful and Christian" clearly looks different than what most of would see as "prayerful and Christian." :dunno:
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As far as I am concerned 3ABN, altho not perfect has always tried to do all in a prayerful and christian manner
Wow! A most amazing statement! :o
Your "prayerful and Christian" clearly looks different than what most of would see as "prayerful and Christian." :dunno:
Inga,
You put it well. I had started a reply post attempting to state the obvious as well, but decided to dump it.
Thanks for saying it for me, and my guess for many others as well. Seems odd we would even have to say it at all as it's fairly clear to the thinking person what's christian and not. Remember, this nice "christian" behavior started and was put out there for all to see 4 years ago. Just think what was going on before that that the whole world did not see and is now learning. Amazing is right.
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Amazing ain't the wrong term.
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Well, I find this whole thing totally disgusting.
I grew up around people eating pork, I ate pork, but that doesn't mean I downplay the evil results and potentially eternal consequences of disobeying God's commands in the Bible by eating pork.
I also grew up around people who kept Sunday and went to confession and thought that the priest could turn the bread into Jesus, and I kept Sunday and went to confession and probably thought the same. But that doesn't mean that I excuse or palliate such gross departures from Scripture.
People who teach that obedience is required and that perfection of character is possible and who prize theological and lifestyle correctness, and yet who can't stand up against such a gross, despicable evil, I wouldn't know how to claim them as conservatives. Sounds like rank hypocrisy to me.
So, scratsmom, you think one of the three possibilities you mentioned is the problem behind the silence or the excuses or the justifications?
Lee, are you around? What do you think of scratsmom's comments? Do they apply to you in any way?
I don't know any of the parties involved, but in my experience with victims and their families, when someone says "Get over it" or "It wasn't that big a deal" or "You could've stopped it if you had wanted to" or "He didn't mean anything by it" or "You are making mountains out of molehills", they are either honestly ignorant of the effects of abuse on the victim because they have not done any research or had any personal experience with it, or they have downplayed the "gross, despicable evil-ness" of abuse because of the reasons I previously stated. OR, they honestly don't believe it happened--that the victim is lying. I think a lot of TS supporters don't believe it happened. Some seem to believe that maybe he crossed lines but these weren't "kids" so it is not the same thing as abuse. (if they would educate themselves, they would learn differently)
And again, I haven't found any correlation between the conservative scale and response to abuse. Most conservatives I know would rather hush abuse up and make it go away than deal with it, actually. Wouldn't want to make our church or school or institution look bad before the world and all that. And the ones I grew up around didn't believe in going to counselors so "just pray about it" was the advice of the day. I can give you a lot of stories showing how well that worked...
So though I agree with you that abuse is despicable and that all Christians should stand up in defense of the exploited, I don't assume that all who are support D and T are hypocrites. Some are deceived. Some are wearing blinders. But yes, those in leadership that you are dealing with personally may be trying to save their reputation or position at any cost, and if so, those I have no problem seeing as hypocrites.
Scratsmom :hamster:
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Scratsmom;
I hear your experience speaking. Thank you for your words. May every victim of abuse hear your words. It must be heard!
Fran :TY: :amen:
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Bob, did you intentionally compare eating pork or worshipping on Sunday to sexual abuse of any kind?
It was the best illustration I could think of to show the fallacy in thinking that because I grew up with certain things or did certain things, I can think those things aren't so bad.
Do you expect that a liberal would be more likely to behave in this awful manner?
No, but Adventists who get labeled conservative are supposed to have high standards, and the Adventists who are mixed up in this mess on the 3ABN side are supposed to have high standards. Lee is one of those, and she is not alone.
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In my opinion the New Testament tends to show the eating of foods, and other things like that to to be unimportant as compared to how one treats others.
Well, I find this whole thing totally disgusting.
I grew up around people eating pork, I ate pork, but that doesn't mean I downplay the evil results and potentially eternal consequences of disobeying God's commands in the Bible by eating pork.
I also grew up around people who kept Sunday and went to confession and thought that the priest could turn the bread into Jesus, and I kept Sunday and went to confession and probably thought the same. But that doesn't mean that I excuse or palliate such gross departures from Scripture.
People who teach that obedience is required and that perfection of character is possible and who prize theological and lifestyle correctness, and yet who can't stand up against such a gross, despicable evil, I wouldn't know how to claim them as conservatives. Sounds like rank hypocrisy to me.
So, scratsmom, you think one of the three possibilities you mentioned is the problem behind the silence or the excuses or the justifications?
Lee, are you around? What do you think of scratsmom's comments? Do they apply to you in any way?
Bob, did you intentionally compare eating pork or worshipping on Sunday to sexual abuse of any kind?
I understand that sin is sin and any sin separates the sinner from God, but to even compare these two personal choice issues to the devastatingly damaging effects of sexual abuse on the abused as well as the abuser is completely abhorant.
I think the basic problem here is that you are not differentiating between an individual's world view when it comes to religion or politics and abberant behavior caused by a disconnect in proper reasoning.
IMO, it is faulty reasoning to have the expectation that a conservative will refrain from such disgusting behavior. Do you expect that a liberal would be more likely to behave in this awful manner? That is the implication in the way you present this. Again, that would be faulty reasoning. As scratsmom said, this is not a conservative or liberal issue.
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Well, that's interesting. And how exactly should one treat others?
In my opinion the New Testament tends to show the eating of foods, and other things like that to to be unimportant as compared to how one treats others.
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31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Matthew chapter 25
Well, that's interesting. And how exactly should one treat others?
In my opinion the New Testament tends to show the eating of foods, and other things like that to to be unimportant as compared to how one treats others.
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Well, you can quote all the Bible texts you want. But isn't the bottom line that we should treat each other with respect?
Matthew chapter 25
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Well, you can quote all the Bible texts you want. But isn't the bottom line that we should treat each other with respect?
Matthew chapter 25
That is my understanding Snoopy.
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In my opinion the New Testament tends to show the eating of foods, and other things like that to to be unimportant as compared to how one treats others.
I agree, Habanero. Mark 12:30, 31, NIV:
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' 31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
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The Pharisees strained their water for gnats but were eating camels. Such Pharisees are still around, it appears.
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The Pharisees strained their water for gnats but were eating camels. Such Pharisees are still around, it appears.
I agree, Bob...
It would be interesting to hear your perspective of who you think the Pharisees are in this present scenerio. I have an inkling that it may differ from my own.
Who were the Pharisees of old?
I remember the story of the supposed paragons of virtue... those who rigidly interpreted the law, who felt it permissable to set up a woman with one of their own so she would get caught in fornication, and then drag her into the temple courtyard to try to trap Jesus. How many accusers were left after He began writing in the sand?
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Folks who claim to be conservative or correct in their theology or lifestyle, but who excuse or justify the behavior of the Sheltons, that sounds Pharisaical to me.
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In my opinion the New Testament tends to show the eating of foods, and other things like that to to be unimportant as compared to how one treats others.
I agree, Habanero. Mark 12:30, 31, NIV:
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' 31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
I agree also! but really, what professed Christian would disagree? (even apart from SDAs) who would as a christian really deny this, or disagree?
I myself can't think of even one...
The truth is in how love is defined and demonstrated by God and in how we ourselves define that, and understand and follow and emulate that, or don't-- according to prayer, studying, knowledge and convictions, and our relationship with him.
Isn't this so?
These things either prove our faith and knowledge of God, or our lack of that?
Right?
We are known by our fruits-- to Him and to each other....
and we can recognize each other by our obedience, or recognize that others are not yet our brethren, or are refusing right now for whatever reason, or don't understand, or even never will agree or do so, by these same standards and principles??
But regardless of why, we are ALL known by our fruits (actions and words) It doesn'treally matter why, for our Creator has made all known, He leaves none in ignorance and gives all a choice. So, when it comes down to the end. There are only two groups.... Ane each have made a choice...
But how and by who?
I myself think that confusion and deception about all of this seems to rule in this world and especially in our church...as we want to define love according to our experiences, and our feelings and thoughts and self justifications, or accordig to the rationalizations and reasonings, and wisdom of this fallen world. The enemy leads and whispers all of this to us, he doesn't care which ditch we fall in or which error or sin we embrace, he only seeks to destroy God via his professed followers. So we see what looks good and makes sense and justifies our reasoning, rather than the Lords will, ways, and character, and that is the way of this fallen world but that will never triumph.... Why? That is never the definition of truth.
The Lord alone IS. Jesus Christ alone is the way, the truth and the light.
We either achknoldge, accept and reflect that same light or we represent, and reflect lies.
For He alone is the definition of truth... Only God ~IS~ love.
So really what is the true definition of love? And what does the bible, God's inspired word to us, reveal and say about how to tell if we know if we truly love God or others, or to test ourselves, or how to examine ourselves, and which way to walk in faith and in love?
That seems to me to be VERY important.
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Folks who claim to be conservative or correct in their theology or lifestyle, but who excuse or justify the behavior of the Sheltons, that sounds Pharisaical to me.
IOW: Bob Pickle means and is saying that so called "conservatives" who are correct in their theology, but disagree with his accusations, opinions and judgments of the Sheltons or who question, or think that these things he accuses the Sheltons of lack proof, are pharisees???
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ADMIN HAT ON
IAN, I THINK YOU ARE PUSHING IT WHEN YOU BEGIN SPEAKING FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
ADMIN HAT OFF
IOW: Bob means that those who disagree with his accusations, opinions and judgments , are pharisees?
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ADMIN HAT ON
IAN, I THINK YOU ARE PUSHING IT WHEN YOU BEGIN SPEAKING FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
ADMIN HAT OFF
IOW: Bob means that those who disagree with his accusations, opinions and judgments , are pharisees?
Really? I do not believe I violated one forum rule.
I was asking a question, and was speaking for myself to other people, and not for other people...
I understand you disagree, but it seems to me by donning your "admin Hat" here, that you are pushing your personal point of view and bias and limitting free discussion and points of view in this forum.
Are you acting like you are enforcing a forum rule just because you don't agree with what I said, Snoopy?
But- do what you feel you must and let your "consensus of staff" decide what is happening here for themselves, and announce it.
If I'm banned, so be it, but let all the readers and members see and decide for themselves why that is so.. and how this forum works.
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IOW: Bob Pickle means and is saying that so called "conservatives" who are correct in their theology, but disagree with his accusations, opinions and judgments of the Sheltons and who question, or think that these things he accuses the Sheltons of lack proof, are pharisees???
No. I think I was plain enough. Those conservatives who prize correct theology and lifestyle habits, and yet who think that questioning Danny's fibbing under oath, or his covering up of the child molestation allegations against Tommy, are fighting against the Holy Spirit, I would say that they have been affected by Phariseeism.
If you want to see someone put it in those terms, suggesting that I am fighting against the Holy Spirit, go to http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=99247#Post99247 (http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=99247#Post99247).
And I am a conservative who prizes correct theology and lifestyle habits, who loves evangelism, and who has advertised 3ABN on billboards!
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IOW: Bob Pickle means and is saying that so called "conservatives" who are correct in their theology, but disagree with his accusations, opinions and judgments of the Sheltons and who question, or think that these things he accuses the Sheltons of lack proof, are pharisees???
No. I think I was plain enough. Those conservatives who prize correct theology and lifestyle habits, and yet who think that questioning Danny's fibbing under oath, or his covering up of the child molestation allegations against Tommy, are fighting against the Holy Spirit, I would say that they have been affected by Phariseeism.
If you want to see someone put it in those terms, suggesting that I am fighting against the Holy Spirit, go to http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=99247#Post99247 (http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=99247#Post99247).
And I am a conservative who prizes correct theology and lifestyle habits, who loves evangelism, and who has advertised 3ABN on billboards!
Dear Readers,
I am not impressed by Mr Pickle's personal accolades anymore than I am of any others.... and I hope you are not either.
All should realize a Minister standing up to preach on humbleness who states "I am so humble", and gives himself as an example of such, has proved he is not by his own words... That same principle holds true here.
I will be more impressed IF Mr Pickle can prove the allegations of child molestation against Tommy Shelton are true and that Danny Shelton, and 3ABN willfully, and in full knowledge of such, covered those allegations, and the evidence and proof of child molestation up, and endangered children as he has repetatively claimed.
His condemnations of others in this regard, mean nothing if he cannot do so...
And until such is done, it is my opinion ALL should reserve judgment.
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Yes, REALLY. And, no, my personal opinions and views and bias do not rule this forum. I gave you my personal opinion as the 3ABN subforum moderator because I was asked to be here to moderate. In case you missed it, this forum is for RESPECTFULLY discussing issues, and I didn't feel you were being respectful. If you don't like it, then I guess you'll have to take it up with Daryl as it is his forum, and if he doesn't like my moderator opinions then he can discuss it with me.
It was my personal opinion that when you begin a statement with "Bob means that..." then you are trying to impose your words into his mouth. That's all. Take it for what it is worth.
And, let's go over this one more time. When you hit the "Report to Moderator" button, a complaint is filed and is then discussed amongst all the moderators to determine its resolution. In this case, I was simply letting you know, from a moderator perspective, that I don't think you were being respectful.
Really? because I was asking a question, and was speaking for myself, not other people.
DO YOUR PERSONAL OPINIONS AND VIEWS AND BIAS RULE THIS FORUM?
It seems you are pushing your personal point of view and bias and limitting free discussion and points of view by donning a administrators hat and acting like you are enforcing a forum rule, Snoopy
Do what you feel you must and let your "consensus of staff" decide what is happening here for themselves, and announce it.
If I'm banned, so be it, but let all the readers and members see and decide for themselves why that is so.. and how this forum works.
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Yes, REALLY. And, no, my personal opinions and views and bias do not rule this forum. I gave you my personal opinion as the 3ABN subforum moderator because I was asked to be here to moderate. In case you missed it, this forum is for RESPECTFULLY discussing issues, and I didn't feel you were being respectful. If you don't like it, then I guess you'll have to take it up with Daryl as it is his forum, and if he doesn't like my moderator opinions then he can discuss it with me.
It was my personal opinion that when you begin a statement with "Bob means that..." then you are trying to impose your words into his mouth. That's all. Take it for what it is worth.
And, let's go over this one more time. When you hit the "Report to Moderator" button, a complaint is filed and is then discussed amongst all the moderators to determine its resolution. In this case, I was simply letting you know, from a moderator perspective, that I don't think you were being respectful.
Maybe I just have a different perspective...
It kinda looks like your are replying to me filing a complaint. To clarify, I didn't file a complaint/report, and don't really see the need to.
In addition I am of the opinion that moderators should enforce the forum rules impartially and without bias, irregardless of their personal opinion or views or agreement or disagreement with the views posted, as the rules have to do with behaviors and not with the personal opinions or views of others, but maybe you view it differently?
Clarifying this would probably help other posters and readers as well as me. :)
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All should realize a Minister standing up to preach on humbleness who states "I am so humble", and gives himself as an example of such, has proved he is not by his own words... That same principle holds true here.
So if you state that you prize love, you have proven that you don't by so stating? No, the same principle does not hold here because your analogy makes no sense.
I will be more impressed IF Mr Pickle can prove the allegations of child molestation against Tommy Shelton are true ...
And why should I have to prove that the allegations are true in order to prove that there are allegations? That makes no sense either.
... and that Danny Shelton, and 3ABN willfully, and in full knowledge of such, covered those allegations, and the evidence and proof of child molestation up, and endangered children as he has repetatively claimed.
I have already demonstrated that Danny Shelton knew about the allegations and that he did cover up those allegations, have I not?
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All should realize a Minister standing up to preach on humbleness who states "I am so humble", and gives himself as an example of such, has proved he is not by his own words... That same principle holds true here.
So if you state that you prize love, you have proven that you don't by so stating? No, the same principle does not hold here because your analogy makes no sense.
"and why should I have to prove that the allegations are true in order to prove that there are allegations? That makes no sense either.
I have already demonstrated that .... knew about the allegations and that he did cover up those allegations, have I not?"
Hmmm...
does this make sense?
Pickle is ALSO accused in a court of law of defamation of character, and certainly knows about it, but is pretending he's not guilty..
Pickle is therefore guilty of false witness and character assasination, and needs to repent, and all should keep talking about himand putting him down and digging up all the dirt they can find on him and all associated with him.
until he repents, and does what we demand of him???
Will Pickle, or any of you ever get the point?
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Ian,
If you have a problem with enforcement of the forum rules, why not handle it according to forum guidelines rather than making generalizations and nasty comments?
I have already explained to you why I said what I said, yet you continue to force the issue.
I am not sure how much more clear I can make myself. And, other readers don't appear to be having trouble understanding. From the tone of your recent posts, I sense you are getting quite frustrated. Perhaps you might consider taking a time out...??
Snoopy
Maybe I just have a different perspective...
It kinda looks like your are replying to me filing a complaint. To clarify, I didn't file a complaint/report, and don't really see the need to.
In addition I am of the opinion that moderators should enforce the forum rules impartially and without bias, irregardless of their personal opinion or views or agreement or disagreement with the views posted, as the rules have to do with behaviors and not with the personal opinions or views of others, but maybe you view it differently?
Clarifying this would probably help other posters and readers as well as me. :)
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Snoopy,
I have zero, nada, zilch, zip issues with the forum rules, and haven't ever brought that up. The truth is you had an issue, and disagreement with me due to my post to Bob, and chose to make that issue known as an administrator, (while not citing any violation of rules) rather than as a individual poster.
I'm sorry, but due to that I have to submit that the problem may be yours rather than mine.
You IMHO need to think.
Ian,
If you have a problem with enforcement of the forum rules, why not handle it according to forum guidelines rather than making generalizations and nasty comments?
I have already explained to you why I said what I said, yet you continue to force the issue.
I am not sure how much more clear I can make myself. And, other readers don't appear to be having trouble understanding. From the tone of your recent posts, I sense you are getting quite frustrated. Perhaps you might consider taking a time out...??
Snoopy
Maybe I just have a different perspective...
It kinda looks like your are replying to me filing a complaint. To clarify, I didn't file a complaint/report, and don't really see the need to.
In addition I am of the opinion that moderators should enforce the forum rules impartially and without bias, irregardless of their personal opinion or views or agreement or disagreement with the views posted, as the rules have to do with behaviors and not with the personal opinions or views of others, but maybe you view it differently?
Clarifying this would probably help other posters and readers as well as me. :)
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And you need a time out. If you need a specific rule saying that posters need to respect each other, then I think YOU are the one who needs to think.
I am closing this thread for the time being.
Snoopy,
I have zero, nada, zilch, zip issues with the forum rules, and haven't ever brought that up. The truth is you had an issue, and disagreement with me due to my post to Bob, and chose to make that issue known as an administrator, (while not citing any violation of rules) rather than as a individual poster.
I'm sorry, but due to that I have to submit that the problem may be yours rather than mine.
You IMHO need to think.
Ian,
If you have a problem with enforcement of the forum rules, why not handle it according to forum guidelines rather than making generalizations and nasty comments?
I have already explained to you why I said what I said, yet you continue to force the issue.
I am not sure how much more clear I can make myself. And, other readers don't appear to be having trouble understanding. From the tone of your recent posts, I sense you are getting quite frustrated. Perhaps you might consider taking a time out...??
Snoopy
Maybe I just have a different perspective...
It kinda looks like your are replying to me filing a complaint. To clarify, I didn't file a complaint/report, and don't really see the need to.
In addition I am of the opinion that moderators should enforce the forum rules impartially and without bias, irregardless of their personal opinion or views or agreement or disagreement with the views posted, as the rules have to do with behaviors and not with the personal opinions or views of others, but maybe you view it differently?
Clarifying this would probably help other posters and readers as well as me. :)
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Re-opening thread.
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All should realize a Minister standing up to preach on humbleness who states "I am so humble", and gives himself as an example of such, has proved he is not by his own words... That same principle holds true here.
So if you state that you prize love, you have proven that you don't by so stating? No, the same principle does not hold here because your analogy makes no sense.
"and why should I have to prove that the allegations are true in order to prove that there are allegations? That makes no sense either.
I have already demonstrated that .... knew about the allegations and that he did cover up those allegations, have I not?"
Hmmm...
does this make sense?
Pickle is ALSO accused in a court of law of defamation of character, and certainly knows about it, but is pretending he's not guilty..[b]Pickle is therefore guilty of false witness and character assasination, and needs to repent, and all should keep talking about himand putting him down and digging up all the dirt they can find on him and all associated with him.
until he repents, and does what we demand of him???[/b]Will Pickle, or any of you ever get the point?
Ian, when will YOU ever get it, that although Bob has been accused of defamation, he HAS NOT BEEN FOUND GUILTY of such. The evidence does NOT stack up as you are accusing him.
As for your criticism/accusations against the moderaters I find that sickening. This is one Forum, where I have found sincerity, honesty and integrity on the part of all the Moderaters. Maybe, you'd like to have a look from another side or go away and rethink your attitude?
Will you ever get that point?
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Ditto!
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"I will be more impressed IF Mr Pickle can prove the allegations of child molestation against Tommy Shelton are true and that Danny Shelton, and 3ABN willfully, and in full knowledge of such, covered those allegations, and the evidence and proof of child molestation up, and endangered children as he has repetatively claimed.
His condemnations of others in this regard, mean nothing if he cannot do so..." IAN
Dear Ms Ian,
I believe Mr Pickle has already done that on Save-3ABN.info. But, I will once again offer you that if
you would like a re-iteration of the evidence here on Adventist Talk, I shall be happy to accomodate you. I must remind you that sometimes, you get what you ask for...
The evidence is clearly overwhelming and in many cases far more convincing then what has been used to convict wayward priests.
So, while we are on the subject, can you explain why the references to the Tommy Shelton allegations and listing Tommy as a plaintiff got vetoed and references removed from this lawsuite?
Let me know if you want a torrent of statements and evidence here to bury your ignoring the truth regarding Tommy Ray Shelton once and for all.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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I sure can't speak for Ian, but I know I'd be interested in the statements and evidence you have collected!
Let me know if you want a torrent of statements and evidence here to bury your ignoring the truth regarding Tommy Ray Shelton once and for all.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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I sure can't speak for Ian, but I know I'd be interested in the statements and evidence you have collected!
Let me know if you want a torrent of statements and evidence here to bury your ignoring the truth regarding Tommy Ray Shelton once and for all.
Gailon Arthur Joy
I believe that is called "calling your hand", right Habenero?
Gailon Arthur Joy
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I am not impressed by Mr Pickle's personal accolades anymore than I am of any others.... and I hope you are not either.
Ian, you seem to be reading something that's not there and missing what is being said.I will be more impressed IF Mr Pickle can prove the allegations of child molestation against Tommy Shelton are true and that Danny Shelton, and 3ABN willfully, and in full knowledge of such, covered those allegations, and the evidence and proof of child molestation up, and endangered children as he has repetatively claimed.
Even though this has been explained to you in this thread, you still don't "get it." :scratch:
One more time (read this slowly, then read it again):
Bob has to prove nothing except that Dan covered up allegations of molestation by Tommy.
That there are allegations is proven. That Danny covered them up is also evident.
These are facts!
The allegations are so serious that -- even an administrator in a worldly endeavor -- is obligated to do his utmost to check out the allegations and to ensure that the person against whom the allegations are made does not regularly come in contact with minors in his employment.
I don't know what the law is in Illinois, but in many places it's a crime to knowingly withhold information regarding such allegations. In some places an employer who allows an employee to be in contact with minors when there are such allegations pending is also culpable.
Christians should be more principled in such matters than those who make no profession of Christianity. Instead, Dan Shelton has actively covered up the allegations and could thus be considered an accessory to any molestations that occurred after his first knowledge of such allegations that he suppressed.
Please note that this is my personal opinion, based on general knowledge. I am not a lawyer. If you need legal advice, please consult a lawyer.
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Isn't J. Gilley supposed to be in charge?
If so, I am extremely dissapointed in this move to pursue Linda and
keep this going. Seems to me that Gilley kept mentioning about
moving forward and the future... yadda yadda yadda.
This gives me much reason to question Gilley's motives and his
ability to tell the truth.
I for one will not contribute on CENT to 3abn and encourage all
I know to do the same.
Shame on you!
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All should realize a Minister standing up to preach on humbleness who states "I am so humble", and gives himself as an example of such, has proved he is not by his own words... That same principle holds true here.
So if you state that you prize love, you have proven that you don't by so stating? No, the same principle does not hold here because your analogy makes no sense.
"and why should I have to prove that the allegations are true in order to prove that there are allegations? That makes no sense either.
I have already demonstrated that .... knew about the allegations and that he did cover up those allegations, have I not?"
Hmmm...
does this make sense?
Pickle is ALSO accused in a court of law of defamation of character, and certainly knows about it, but is pretending he's not guilty..[b]Pickle is therefore guilty of false witness and character assasination, and needs to repent, and all should keep talking about himand putting him down and digging up all the dirt they can find on him and all associated with him.
until he repents, and does what we demand of him???[/b]Will Pickle, or any of you ever get the point?
Ian, when will YOU ever get it, that although Bob has been accused of defamation, he HAS NOT BEEN FOUND GUILTY of such. The evidence does NOT stack up as you are accusing him.
As for your criticism/accusations against the moderaters I find that sickening. This is one Forum, where I have found sincerity, honesty and integrity on the part of all the Moderaters. Maybe, you'd like to have a look from another side or go away and rethink your attitude?
Will you ever get that point?
I too will have to ditto this.
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I was thinking the same thing, imagrandpa. Apparently the new administration is just more of the old. It is very disappointing, in my opinion, as I had high hopes there would be change.
Isn't J. Gilley supposed to be in charge?
If so, I am extremely dissapointed in this move to pursue Linda and
keep this going. Seems to me that Gilley kept mentioning about
moving forward and the future... yadda yadda yadda.
This gives me much reason to question Gilley's motives and his
ability to tell the truth.
I for one will not contribute on CENT to 3abn and encourage all
I know to do the same.
Shame on you!
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Isn't J. Gilley supposed to be in charge?
If so, I am extremely dissapointed in this move to pursue Linda and
keep this going. Seems to me that Gilley kept mentioning about
moving forward and the future... yadda yadda yadda.
This gives me much reason to question Gilley's motives and his
ability to tell the truth.
I for one will not contribute on CENT to 3abn and encourage all
I know to do the same.
Shame on you!
I checked yesterday, and Danny Shelton is still scheduled to participate in this year's 10 Commandment weekend, even though he's been caught telling falsehoods under oath and admitted divorcing Linda without knowing whether she had committed fornication.
Tammy Chance is also listed as participating, even with the allegations that she had an incestuous affair with a cousin.
My big question is if Danny and Tammy can still participate, why can't Linda? Why the difference in how allegations of commandment breaking are handled? And why is this difference still going on under the new administration?
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Isn't J. Gilley supposed to be in charge?
If so, I am extremely dissapointed in this move to pursue Linda and
keep this going. Seems to me that Gilley kept mentioning about
moving forward and the future... yadda yadda yadda.
This gives me much reason to question Gilley's motives and his
ability to tell the truth.
I for one will not contribute on CENT to 3abn and encourage all
I know to do the same.
Shame on you!
I checked yesterday, and Danny Shelton is still scheduled to participate in this year's 10 Commandment weekend, even though he's been caught telling falsehoods under oath and admitted divorcing Linda without knowing whether she had committed fornication.
Tammy Chance is also listed as participating, even with the allegations that she had an incestuous affair with a cousin.
My big question is if Danny and Tammy can still participate, why can't Linda? Why the difference in how allegations of commandment breaking are handled? And why is this difference still going on under the new administration?
A bigger question might be, their "sins" can be proven, what Linda has been accused of can not, and yet they go on and she does not.
I believe the Lord saw this coming, and got Linda out of there. Naturally, she will be the "reason" for all that's happened to 3abn, as the attention always has to be off the people causing the problems, and on a scapegoat.
It still goes on because when in Rome....
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Pickle is ALSO accused in a court of law of defamation of character, and certainly knows about it, but is pretending he's not guilty..[b]Pickle is therefore guilty of false witness and character assasination, and needs to repent, and all should keep talking about himand putting him down and digging up all the dirt they can find on him and all associated with him.
until he repents, and does what we demand of him???[/b]Will Pickle, or any of you ever get the point?
[/quote]
Ian, when will YOU ever get it, that although Bob has been accused of defamation, he HAS NOT BEEN FOUND GUILTY of such. The evidence does NOT stack up as you are accusing him.
As for your criticism/accusations against the moderaters I find that sickening. This is one Forum, where I have found sincerity, honesty and integrity on the part of all the Moderaters. Maybe, you'd like to have a look from another side or go away and rethink your attitude?
Will you ever get that point?
[/quote]
If you can, just turn your statement around. Danny/3abn has been accused. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN FOUND GUILTY! I believe God would expect you to have the same standards for all here. Not double standards.
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You know, Ian, Snoopy was correct in calling you re putting words in Bob's mouth ...er ... keyboard.
It may be that the tendency to put words in someone else's mouth should be moderated more consistently, but that doesn't mean there was no cause for Snoopy's warning.
I rather suspect that most folks here would agree with my assessment ... In some fora arguing with a moderator, as you have, is cause for banning. You might want to think about it ...
Snoopy,
I have zero, nada, zilch, zip issues with the forum rules, and haven't ever brought that up. The truth is you had an issue, and disagreement with me due to my post to Bob, and chose to make that issue known as an administrator, (while not citing any violation of rules) rather than as a individual poster.
I'm sorry, but due to that I have to submit that the problem may be yours rather than mine.
You IMHO need to think.
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If you can, just turn your statement around. Danny/3abn has been accused. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN FOUND GUILTY! I believe God would expect you to have the same standards for all here. Not double standards.
There is no double standard in this instance. I have said there were allegations, and that Danny Shelton covered up those allegations. That much is for certain.
The allegations do not have to be proven in order for them to exist and to be covered up.
Ian tried to make that logic be the same as my being guilty simply because I am accused. There really is no comparison.
Tommy has been accused, and Danny covered up those allegations. Pure and simple.
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Isn't J. Gilley supposed to be in charge?
If so, I am extremely dissapointed in this move to pursue Linda and
keep this going. Seems to me that Gilley kept mentioning about
moving forward and the future... yadda yadda yadda.
This gives me much reason to question Gilley's motives and his
ability to tell the truth.
I for one will not contribute on CENT to 3abn and encourage all
I know to do the same.
Shame on you!
I checked yesterday, and Danny Shelton is still scheduled to participate in this year's 10 Commandment weekend, even though he's been caught telling falsehoods under oath and admitted divorcing Linda without knowing whether she had committed fornication.
Tammy Chance is also listed as participating, even with the allegations that she had an incestuous affair with a cousin.
My big question is if Danny and Tammy can still participate, why can't Linda? Why the difference in how allegations of commandment breaking are handled? And why is this difference still going on under the new administration?
Have spent time reading stuff at bsda and at your website Mr. Pickle. and for you to make this claim is rather laughable. I would like you to show us all in your very first response to this post and not playing ring around the rosy for five or six before you do, where Danny says this. Not your interpretation of his emails or letters or comments on TV. What do you have where Danny says exactly what you are accusing him of. Where does he say something like, "I divorced Linda even though I have no proof that she gave me Biblical grounds." Something you can post exactly as it exists without your messing with it. After reading a lot of stuff at bsda and your website it seems obvious to anyone that you kind of like not giving people the whole thing and then telling them what everything means. That kind of reminds me of a big fish legend. Everyone has seen it, almost caught it, but they have nothign to support their claims and they expect you to take their word for it. So, I challenge you to produce something that you haven't messed with that says what you claim above and I mean the stuff that is bold above.
Who is Tammy Chance and what does she have to do with anything she isn't suing you or that Mr. Joy seems like a lot of blah blah, "I don't like the fact that no one will let me in the SDA good boys club, that's ASI, and I am going to get back at people for it". If she isn't suing her seems like you should leave her alone.
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Oh yea Mr. Pickle there are a couple of times people have suggested that there might be a personal tie between you and all of this obssession with Tommy Shelton and you haven't answered. It might be of benefit to people if you come clean on that and indiciate if you have a personal experience that might make you harp on that one issue more than all the others.
If you can, just turn your statement around. Danny/3abn has been accused. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN FOUND GUILTY! I believe God would expect you to have the same standards for all here. Not double standards.
There is no double standard in this instance. I have said there were allegations, and that Danny Shelton covered up those allegations. That much is for certain.
The allegations do not have to be proven in order for them to exist and to be covered up.
Ian tried to make that logic be the same as my being guilty simply because I am accused. There really is no comparison.
Tommy has been accused, and Danny covered up those allegations. Pure and simple.
-
Oh yea Mr. Pickle there are a couple of times people have suggested that there might be a personal tie between you and all of this obssession with Tommy Shelton and you haven't answered. It might be of benefit to people if you come clean on that and indicate if you have a personal experience that might make you harp on that one issue more than all the others.
Bob Pickle can speak for himself as to personal experience,but I find this completely insulting to any of us that have an interest in preventing abuse and preventing the coverup of complaints. There are those that have suffered abuse, particularily as children, that become actively involved in working towards prevention and support for others. There are others that have the ability to care and not want abuse for others,PERIOD. No hidden agenda, no secrets to hide, just enough compassion and conscience to do what they can.
When our situation blew up in our face, it was not child abuse. I soon came in contact with those that had been horribly abused as very young children and as vulnerable young adults. I have been active and interested since.
Would I remain quiet if I had good cause to believe there had been abuse?? NOT ON YOUR LIFE
Would I remain quiet if I knew allegations were being ignored and covered up. NOT IN THIS LIFETIME.
And no, Mr. Ficticous AnyMan, I was not abused as a child, nor at any time in my life in this way. It has been circulated that is so,but blatanly false and done with the thought in mind to hopefully diminish anything those like myself say. Quite Frankly, I believe that is what you hope to accommplish.
Back to the issue, were there allegations, did TS write this so called confession and repentence, when did DS know and exactly what steps did he take upon learning of this?
You do not have to be abused to want abuse and the cover-up of allegations to stop
-
Isn't J. Gilley supposed to be in charge?
If so, I am extremely dissapointed in this move to pursue Linda and
keep this going. Seems to me that Gilley kept mentioning about
moving forward and the future... yadda yadda yadda.
This gives me much reason to question Gilley's motives and his
ability to tell the truth.
I for one will not contribute on CENT to 3abn and encourage all
I know to do the same.
Shame on you!
I checked yesterday, and Danny Shelton is still scheduled to participate in this year's 10 Commandment weekend, even though he's been caught telling falsehoods under oath and admitted divorcing Linda without knowing whether she had committed fornication.
Tammy Chance is also listed as participating, even with the allegations that she had an incestuous affair with a cousin.
My big question is if Danny and Tammy can still participate, why can't Linda? Why the difference in how allegations of commandment breaking are handled? And why is this difference still going on under the new administration?
Have spent time reading stuff at bsda and at your website Mr. Pickle. and for you to make this claim is rather laughable. I would like you to show us all in your very first response to this post and not playing ring around the rosy for five or six before you do, where Danny says this. Not your interpretation of his emails or letters or comments on TV. What do you have where Danny says exactly what you are accusing him of. Where does he say something like, "I divorced Linda even though I have no proof that she gave me Biblical grounds." Something you can post exactly as it exists without your messing with it. After reading a lot of stuff at bsda and your website it seems obvious to anyone that you kind of like not giving people the whole thing and then telling them what everything means. That kind of reminds me of a big fish legend. Everyone has seen it, almost caught it, but they have nothign to support their claims and they expect you to take their word for it. So, I challenge you to produce something that you haven't messed with that says what you claim above and I mean the stuff that is bold above.
Who is Tammy Chance and what does she have to do with anything she isn't suing you or that Mr. Joy seems like a lot of blah blah, "I don't like the fact that no one will let me in the SDA good boys club, that's ASI, and I am going to get back at people for it". If she isn't suing her seems like you should leave her alone.
Anyman, when you show us where Linda says she committed spiritual adultery, (without a lot of "messing with it" to make it look that way), you can then make this demand. Until then, your indignation has a very hollow ring to it.
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I would like you to show us all in your very first response to this post and not playing ring around the rosy for five or six before you do, where Danny says this.
I already showed that, and gave the quote perhaps six times in a row, putting the word "if" in bold and a larger font.
Who is Tammy Chance ...
Tammy is Danny's sister. Thus out of the family of 5 siblings, there are serious allegations of immorality against at least three.
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Oh yea Mr. Pickle there are a couple of times people have suggested that there might be a personal tie between you and all of this obssession with Tommy Shelton and you haven't answered. It might be of benefit to people if you come clean on that and indiciate if you have a personal experience that might make you harp on that one issue more than all the others.
So do you have personal ties that would drive you to attack those concerned about allegations of vile sin and perversity? What personal experiences have you had that would lead you to do such?
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Anyman, here it is:
1. You have stated repeatedly that Danny ADMITTED having no biblical grounds for divorce. I have found that to be totally false.
I will do one more.
How have you found that to be totally false? Are you suggesting that that email was forged, and that Danny never wrote it? Or are you suggesting that Danny lied? On what basis do you make such a statement?
To Linda Danny wrote almost a month after the divorce, on July 17, 2004: (http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-demise-of-marriage-no-proof.htm)
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
Danny has a number of times given evidence that he is a liar, but on this one I choose to believe Danny: He didn't know almost a month after his divorce whether Linda had committed fornication with the doctor. That's what he said, plain and simple.
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Oh yea Mr. Pickle there are a couple of times people have suggested that there might be a personal tie between you and all of this obssession with Tommy Shelton and you haven't answered. It might be of benefit to people if you come clean on that and indiciate if you have a personal experience that might make you harp on that one issue more than all the others.
So do you have personal ties that would drive you to attack those concerned about allegations of vile sin and perversity? What personal experiences have you had that would lead you to do such?
Why would it matter except in the hands of those that blame the victim?
This is one of the most frequent forms of attack to silence either a victim or someone they hope is hiding a secret/
Pretty telling to me
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I am not sure what you are suggesting here, but if you are suggesting that Bob might have been abused as a child, and that would explain his "obsession" with the topic, I am amazed. Actually, I shouldn't be. If that is what you meant, it just proves that the TS and DS supporters, on the whole, seem to have a blind spot on this topic that is consistent with a lack of education about abuse, and very possibly an environment where abuse has been so common that they literally can't understand what the big deal is.
"Come clean"?? COME CLEAN? I don't know Bob, but even if he was abused as a child, and wanted to discuss it, it would not be called coming clean. That is what someone does who has done something wrong and has hidden it. Again, a seeming invalidation of victimization and a tinge of superiority towards them and their concerns and opinions. I guess if standing up against abuse is "harping", we could start a harp orchestra here...I'm in.
scratsmom :hamster:
Oh yea Mr. Pickle there are a couple of times people have suggested that there might be a personal tie between you and all of this obssession with Tommy Shelton and you haven't answered. It might be of benefit to people if you come clean on that and indiciate if you have a personal experience that might make you harp on that one issue more than all the others.
If you can, just turn your statement around. Danny/3abn has been accused. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN FOUND GUILTY! I believe God would expect you to have the same standards for all here. Not double standards.
There is no double standard in this instance. I have said there were allegations, and that Danny Shelton covered up those allegations. That much is for certain.
The allegations do not have to be proven in order for them to exist and to be covered up.
Ian tried to make that logic be the same as my being guilty simply because I am accused. There really is no comparison.
Tommy has been accused, and Danny covered up those allegations. Pure and simple.
-
Like I said, avoid the ring around the rosy approach. That is not a response show us the original email, the way the courts will require you to present it. Where is the context because it isn't in your response. This seems to be your chosen approach, mislead the readers by not providing them with what they need to make intelligent decisions. But maybe you don't want people making intelligent decisions as it is easier to pull the wool over their eyes if they just accept what you say as being thr truth.
So can you produce the email in it's original format where Danny says to Linda, to you to anyone that he intenttionally and maliciously divorced Linda without any certaintly that she had been unfaithful? Can you do that? Right now it doesn't seem as if you can. It seems as if you can only show people a few words that no one knows if they are presented honestly. Makes you look rather weak.
Anyman, here it is:
1. You have stated repeatedly that Danny ADMITTED having no biblical grounds for divorce. I have found that to be totally false.
I will do one more.
How have you found that to be totally false? Are you suggesting that that email was forged, and that Danny never wrote it? Or are you suggesting that Danny lied? On what basis do you make such a statement?
To Linda Danny wrote almost a month after the divorce, on July 17, 2004: (http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-demise-of-marriage-no-proof.htm)
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him.
Danny has a number of times given evidence that he is a liar, but on this one I choose to believe Danny: He didn't know almost a month after his divorce whether Linda had committed fornication with the doctor. That's what he said, plain and simple.
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If you take a look at the bold stuff below. Didn't say you were, didn't insinuate that you were and I am looking at what I wrote and didn't say Mr. Pickle was either. I just mentioned that it was brought up and he hasn't made a comment on it. Is he avoiding it? Is he afraid to respond?
Oh yea Mr. Pickle there are a couple of times people have suggested that there might be a personal tie between you and all of this obssession with Tommy Shelton and you haven't answered. It might be of benefit to people if you come clean on that and indicate if you have a personal experience that might make you harp on that one issue more than all the others.
Bob Pickle can speak for himself as to personal experience,but I find this completely insulting to any of us that have an interest in preventing abuse and preventing the coverup of complaints. There are those that have suffered abuse, particularily as children, that become actively involved in working towards prevention and support for others. There are others that have the ability to care and not want abuse for others,PERIOD. No hidden agenda, no secrets to hide, just enough compassion and conscience to do what they can.
When our situation blew up in our face, it was not child abuse. I soon came in contact with those that had been horribly abused as very young children and as vulnerable young adults. I have been active and interested since.
Would I remain quiet if I had good cause to believe there had been abuse?? NOT ON YOUR LIFE
Would I remain quiet if I knew allegations were being ignored and covered up. NOT IN THIS LIFETIME.
And no, Mr. Ficticous AnyMan, I was not abused as a child, nor at any time in my life in this way. It has been circulated that is so,but blatanly false and done with the thought in mind to hopefully diminish anything those like myself say. Quite Frankly, I believe that is what you hope to accommplish.
Back to the issue, were there allegations, did TS write this so called confession and repentence, when did DS know and exactly what steps did he take upon learning of this?
You do not have to be abused to want abuse and the cover-up of allegations to stop
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No that is what someone who has been a partner in a public attack on people and insititutions does so that they're motives and intentions give people a frame of reference so that they appear to be above board and hones and, what is it Gailon always says- oh yea transparent. I didn't pass judgment, didn't say he should feel guilty or responsible. It seems as if you don't have any interest in your side of things being responsible or upfront. Have you asked Mr. Pickle or Mr. Joy to provide a full accounting of their spending the money that has been sent to them. Have you asked them to show receipts and explain how the money has been used? Nothing gives you pause about that? There isn't any reason to think that it might be used for things other than the so called inevstigation?
I am not sure what you are suggesting here, but if you are suggesting that Bob might have been abused as a child, and that would explain his "obsession" with the topic, I am amazed. Actually, I shouldn't be. If that is what you meant, it just proves that the TS and DS supporters, on the whole, seem to have a blind spot on this topic that is consistent with a lack of education about abuse, and very possibly an environment where abuse has been so common that they literally can't understand what the big deal is.
"Come clean"?? COME CLEAN? I don't know Bob, but even if he was abused as a child, and wanted to discuss it, it would not be called coming clean. That is what someone does who has done something wrong and has hidden it. Again, a seeming invalidation of victimization and a tinge of superiority towards them and their concerns and opinions. I guess if standing up against abuse is "harping", we could start a harp orchestra here...I'm in.
scratsmom :hamster:
Oh yea Mr. Pickle there are a couple of times people have suggested that there might be a personal tie between you and all of this obssession with Tommy Shelton and you haven't answered. It might be of benefit to people if you come clean on that and indiciate if you have a personal experience that might make you harp on that one issue more than all the others.
If you can, just turn your statement around. Danny/3abn has been accused. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN FOUND GUILTY! I believe God would expect you to have the same standards for all here. Not double standards.
There is no double standard in this instance. I have said there were allegations, and that Danny Shelton covered up those allegations. That much is for certain.
The allegations do not have to be proven in order for them to exist and to be covered up.
Ian tried to make that logic be the same as my being guilty simply because I am accused. There really is no comparison.
Tommy has been accused, and Danny covered up those allegations. Pure and simple.
-
If you can, just turn your statement around. Danny/3abn has been accused. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN FOUND GUILTY! I believe God would expect you to have the same standards for all here. Not double standards.
No, SAM, Danny and 3ABN first accused Linda Sue Shelton, banished her, then continued to slander and defame her, Danny divorced her and remarried a new young Filly. Did so without a biblical basis and then wrote Ten Commandments Twice Removed, emphasis on the Fourth, and threw out the seventh.
That, SAM, my man, is what really happened. And when someone showed up and dared to challenge the annointed, he pulled the biggest boo, boo of his career...took it from a quiet forum with ASI and made it a public matter before a US District Court...although they did try to Sequester the file...can't show anybody the evidence...which reminds me...they still have not produced, SAM...Think they have something big to hide!!! I think most of the evidence was imagination run wild, don't you?
But then, this is not so new...remember Mrs Germaine??? Yup, she had the courage to face the annointed and was quickly sent away...and how many others like her over the years. Problem is
they can't fire us so they tried sueing. What a disaster, what a PR bomb.
And now serving Linda...don't they know when to quit??? Don't they ever learn???
Gailon Arthur Joy
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ADMIN HAT ON
Anyman...have you not seen earlier incidents where private names not previously identified are not fair game? If you, Ian and others insist on this train of posting, maybe we need to go back and reinstate ALL the private names that were edited out earlier. This is the only warning I plan to issue.
ADMIN HAT OFF
How about this miss *****, how about if you show me where I said this, made the insinutation. or even hinted at this. Where did I diminish a "victims" point of view. It is easy for you to hide behind the veil of sanctimonious piety because who is going to speak out against a victim of a crime, no one with even a speck of sympathy. I didn't say a word about the victims you did. Go ahead if your a victim speak out and file a case. But if your just out to attack without any real form of evidence than don't lecture me.
Oh yea Mr. Pickle there are a couple of times people have suggested that there might be a personal tie between you and all of this obssession with Tommy Shelton and you haven't answered. It might be of benefit to people if you come clean on that and indiciate if you have a personal experience that might make you harp on that one issue more than all the others.
So do you have personal ties that would drive you to attack those concerned about allegations of vile sin and perversity? What personal experiences have you had that would lead you to do such?
Why would it matter except in the hands of those that blame the victim?
This is one of the most frequent forms of attack to silence either a victim or someone they hope is hiding a secret/
Pretty telling to me
Edited by Snoopy to remove private names.
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No you are w-r-o-n-g Danny and 3ABN begged and pleaded with Linda to give up her wrong direction and she said no. She decided to pursue her own course of action and she reaped as you liked to put it the whirldwind. I am going to have to get a copy of that book if it really wipes out the 7th commandment, imagine that. Does it really Mr. Joy, is it missing from the book all together? How pompus "That, SAM, my man, is what really happened." Where you there? Did you hear that? Did you see that? or did one of your unamed sources tell you or did they tell someone who told someone who passed it along to someone who wrote you an email?
After reading over at bsda and on that site that you an Mr; Pickle run it would look to any rational, conservative minded individual that y'all made it public. No one was talking about it until you stampeded onto the scene thumping your chest and banging the war drum.
Sounds like all you got are a handful of disgruntled people with questionable connections who figured you would make enough noise for them that they wouldn't have to be responsible for their words. I noticed you didn't talk over at bsda but sent people to talk for you. So how come you are talking here?
If you can, just turn your statement around. Danny/3abn has been accused. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN FOUND GUILTY! I believe God would expect you to have the same standards for all here. Not double standards.
No, SAM, Danny and 3ABN first accused Linda Sue Shelton, banished her, then continued to slander and defame her, Danny divorced her and remarried a new young Filly. Did so without a biblical basis and then wrote Ten Commandments Twice Removed, emphasis on the Fourth, and threw out the seventh.
That, SAM, my man, is what really happened. And when someone showed up and dared to challenge the annointed, he pulled the biggest boo, boo of his career...took it from a quiet forum with ASI and made it a public matter before a US District Court...although they did try to Sequester the file...can't show anybody the evidence...which reminds me...they still have not produced, SAM...Think they have something big to hide!!! I think most of the evidence was imagination run wild, don't you?
But then, this is not so new...remember Mrs Germaine??? Yup, she had the courage to face the annointed and was quickly sent away...and how many others like her over the years. Problem is
they can't fire us so they tried sueing. What a disaster, what a PR bomb.
And now serving Linda...don't they know when to quit??? Don't they ever learn???
Gailon Arthur Joy
-
Now this is just ridiculous. nuff said. You seem to not be able to understand the path of this "discussion" here. Mr. Pickle and that Mr. Joy have spent a lot of time saying people said stuff when they clearly didn't. They have taken time to only feed you what they wanted you to read so they would look right - if you haven't taken the time I suggest you go over to that bsda site. It really opened my eyes this weekend to what these two are up to. Don't let them fool you and mislead you as it would be sad if your personal salvation ended up in their hands.
Anyman, when you show us where Linda says she committed spiritual adultery, (without a lot of "messing with it" to make it look that way), you can then make this demand. Until then, your indignation has a very hollow ring to it.
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Response number 1, no you didn't
response numer 2, weak, if it were it a duck it wouldn't quack, lay an egg, or paddle the pond. Seems like your picking on people who aren't even a part of your whole debacle.
I would like you to show us all in your very first response to this post and not playing ring around the rosy for five or six before you do, where Danny says this.
I already showed that, and gave the quote perhaps six times in a row, putting the word "if" in bold and a larger font.
Who is Tammy Chance ...
Tammy is Danny's sister. Thus out of the family of 5 siblings, there are serious allegations of immorality against at least three.
-
I Have spent time reading stuff at bsda and at your website Mr. Pickle. and for you to make this claim is rather laughable. I would like you to show us all in your very first response to this post and not playing ring around the rosy for five or six before you do, where Danny says this. Not your interpretation of his emails or letters or comments on TV. What do you have where Danny says exactly what you are accusing him of. Where does he say something like, "I divorced Linda even though I have no proof that she gave me Biblical grounds." Something you can post exactly as it exists without your messing with it. After reading a lot of stuff at bsda and your website it seems obvious to anyone that you kind of like not giving people the whole thing and then telling them what everything means. That kind of reminds me of a big fish legend. Everyone has seen it, almost caught it, but they have nothign to support their claims and they expect you to take their word for it. So, I challenge you to produce something that you haven't messed with that says what you claim above and I mean the stuff that is bold above.
Who is Tammy Chance and what does she have to do with anything she isn't suing you or that Mr. Joy seems like a lot of blah blah, "I don't like the fact that no one will let me in the SDA good boys club, that's ASI, and I am going to get back at people for it". If she isn't suing her seems like you should leave her alone.
You want to know what is laughable ANYMAN? It is laughable that your Dannyites (I had used 3ABNite but did not want to defame them by association) nearly four years ago accused Linda Sue Shelton, and four years later still haven't produced document one. We have produced documents, e-mails, copies of your website, and lots of other evidence that clearly must lead one and all to reasonably question whether there was a basis for a divorce based upon Biblical Standards. And this defamation from the man that is the "Face of Adventism", the author of "Ten Commandments Twice Removed" and threw out the Seventh, remarried without foundation for a divorce, and four years later and a year into a Federal Lawsuite has still not produced "THE ILLUSIVE EVIDENCE".
Now we have a decision from an Illinois Circuit Court and The Illinois Appeals Court affirming that 3ABN is a Shelton Business. Need the evidence, ANYMAN, or did you already get that from Dad?
Now, for the BIG QUESTION, when are they going to FINALLY produce the evidence that demonstrates the first real hard evidence that Danny or the Board had the right to avoid due process and through this woman into the streets? And when are they going to split the estate and pay her what she is entitled to?
We have clearly put together a convincing arguement or 3ABN would most surely not have been
foolish enough to file suite and claim we had severely impeded their income unless they really felt
they had such a claim, or would they??? Are they really that PR challenged to file suite when
the evidence did not come together? Yes, me thinks so!!!
You have historically been very good at raising every alternative issue you could create or stir up to avoid the inevitable...THE TRUTH...but it is the light at the end of the tunnel...the train headed right at you...scary isn't it?
So, ANYMAN, we have asked before and we will continue to ask...SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE!!! or take the drubbing you deserve!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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It is pretty obvious that they didn't owe you anything. Try taking your belcose chest thumping testosorone laden talk up to Congress and see who shows you anything. They will look at you and wonder who this NOMAN is. You didn't take the time to find out anything before you started attacking. I read somewhere over there or maybe it was in an email from the site you and Mr. Pickle put together where it was explained to you that the reason you didn't get a National Inquirer telling of the story is that it wouldn't have been good for Linda. But your going to start bellyaching about something that was said on tv and you won't even be able to give us transcript or any such thing. You will probably tell us to go look somewhere or listen to something but it won't be the actual thing.
Here is what is really laughable, rolling on the floor laughable, "copies of your website" who in the world are you talking to cause it sure aint me. Maybe you need to talk a long walk and clear your head and come back and talk to me and not who ever you were when you wrote this. You sure like to toss around accusation and try and make it look like you know what your talking about. Oh yea I get it you think I am Greg Thompson caus of the dad reference. You really need to try and get yourself booked on Jay Leno as a comedien. cept your not really funny - your just mean and unhappy.
I Have spent time reading stuff at bsda and at your website Mr. Pickle. and for you to make this claim is rather laughable. I would like you to show us all in your very first response to this post and not playing ring around the rosy for five or six before you do, where Danny says this. Not your interpretation of his emails or letters or comments on TV. What do you have where Danny says exactly what you are accusing him of. Where does he say something like, "I divorced Linda even though I have no proof that she gave me Biblical grounds." Something you can post exactly as it exists without your messing with it. After reading a lot of stuff at bsda and your website it seems obvious to anyone that you kind of like not giving people the whole thing and then telling them what everything means. That kind of reminds me of a big fish legend. Everyone has seen it, almost caught it, but they have nothign to support their claims and they expect you to take their word for it. So, I challenge you to produce something that you haven't messed with that says what you claim above and I mean the stuff that is bold above.
Who is Tammy Chance and what does she have to do with anything she isn't suing you or that Mr. Joy seems like a lot of blah blah, "I don't like the fact that no one will let me in the SDA good boys club, that's ASI, and I am going to get back at people for it". If she isn't suing her seems like you should leave her alone.
You want to know what is laughable ANYMAN? It is laughable that your Dannyites (I had used 3ABNite but did not want to defame them by association) nearly four years ago accused Linda Sue Shelton, and four years later still haven't produced document one. We have produced documents, e-mails, copies of your website, and lots of other evidence that clearly must lead one and all to reasonably question whether there was a basis for a divorce based upon Biblical Standards. And this defamation from the man that is the "Face of Adventism", the author of "Ten Commandments Twice Removed" and threw out the Seventh, remarried without foundation for a divorce, and four years later and a year into a Federal Lawsuite has still not produced "THE ILLUSIVE EVIDENCE".
Now we have a decision from an Illinois Circuit Court and The Illinois Appeals Court affirming that 3ABN is a Shelton Business. Need the evidence, ANYMAN, or did you already get that from Dad?
Now, for the BIG QUESTION, when are they going to FINALLY produce the evidence that demonstrates the first real hard evidence that Danny or the Board had the right to avoid due process and through this woman into the streets? And when are they going to split the estate and pay her what she is entitled to?
We have clearly put together a convincing arguement or 3ABN would most surely not have been
foolish enough to file suite and claim we had severely impeded their income unless they really felt
they had such a claim, or would they??? Are they really that PR challenged to file suite when
the evidence did not come together? Yes, me thinks so!!!
You have historically been very good at raising every alternative issue you could create or stir up to avoid the inevitable...THE TRUTH...but it is the light at the end of the tunnel...the train headed right at you...scary isn't it?
So, ANYMAN, we have asked before and we will continue to ask...SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE!!! or take the drubbing you deserve!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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No that is what someone who has been a partner in a public attack on people and insititutions does so that they're motives and intentions give people a frame of reference so that they appear to be above board and hones and, what is it Gailon always says- oh yea transparent. I didn't pass judgment, didn't say he should feel guilty or responsible. It seems as if you don't have any interest in your side of things being responsible or upfront. Have you asked Mr. Pickle or Mr. Joy to provide a full accounting of their spending the money that has been sent to them. Have you asked them to show receipts and explain how the money has been used? Nothing gives you pause about that? There isn't any reason to think that it might be used for things other than the so called inevstigation?
Now, here is the challenge of a lifetime...we will ask GC Auditing services to audit our books if you will get the 3ABN to allow GC Auditing to audit the books at 3ABN... HOW IS THAT FOR THE OPPORTUNITY OF A LIFETIME. Should be fairly easy for you to arrange, right, ANYMAN???
One thing is for sure, anyone who reads the testimony of the 3ABN auditors in the Tax Exemption case will most assuredly believe we need a MUCH MORE THOROUGH AUDIT of 3ABN!!!
In the interim, anyone who made a contribution may look at any books they may wish to and determine how contributions have been made and whether they have been spent appropriately. I can assure you we have not even taken in enough money to begin to compare with the 3ABN / Shelton book deals or the cash advances taken or the use of the credit card or the E-bay issues.
GAilon Arthur Joy
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How about this miss *****,
Seems you have me at a disadvantage. Our paths must have crossed before that you know my last name. That would also lead me to believe you know I have not been "miss" for some years now. No matter, it has never been a secret. As your user name suggests you could be any man. But there is one man that when he became a little agitated with me or wished to correct me on some issue, would refer to me in his e-mails as miss ***** in a somewhat patronizing tone.
how about if you show me where I said this, made the insinutation. or even hinted at this.
With the following statement......
Oh yea Mr. Pickle there are a couple of times people have suggested that there might be a personal tie between you and all of this obssession with Tommy Shelton and you haven't answered. It might be of benefit to people if you come clean on that and indiciate if you have a personal experience that might make you harp on that one issue more than all the others
Where did I diminish a "victims" point of view.
There are a couple of key phrases that are usually used by those that take your position. What you said is one, another usually goes something like, He/she is hurt and angry and......
No one, including Bob Pickle needs to have personal ties or a secret that need to come clean with to have the common sense,and concern over these issues. Some just plain feel it is wrong and very damaging to cover-up allegations of wrong doing, especially this type that causes so much harm
It is easy for you to hide behind the veil of sanctimonious piety because who is going to speak out against a victim of a crime, no one with even a speck of sympathy.
I am not hiding behind anything, not even a ficticious name. If I strongly accuse or defend someone,I do it without hiding. As for who would speak out against a victim of a crime?? You certainly must mean this as a joke. I have lost count.
Must be many, many SDA's that lack even a speck of sympathy.
I didn't say a word about the victims you did. Go ahead if your a victim speak out and file a case. But if your just out to attack without any real form of evidence than don't lecture me.
No, in very carefully phrased inuendo your were implying that Bob Pickle had more than a concerned bystander interest "in this issue". I think most here understood exactly what you were implying.
I do not need your permission or suggestions as to when I may speak out or what actions to take. As you already know by posting my last name, which is alright,a case was filed by a member of our family. Facing the same objections you are raising,refusuals to investigate allegations, ignoring them, and then claiming "Oh My, we just didn't know". You also know we won against all odds. We fought long and hard and most of it was against the mentality you exhibit.
I did not attack. You may think an objection to a opinion you hold is an attack. There are some that when their opinion is not taken as gospel do feel like they have been attacked
I guess I would still like an answer to this question that resulted from this statement of yours.....
Oh yea Mr. Pickle there are a couple of times people have suggested that there might be a personal tie between you and all of this obssession with Tommy Shelton and you haven't answered. It might be of benefit to people if you come clean on that and indiciate if you have a personal experience that might make you harp on that one issue more than all the others.
Why would it matter except in the hands of those that blame the victim?
Anyone that is going to step out publically in strong defense of someone and does it under the protection of a ficticious name has little credibility as far as I am concerned. So I guess I am not real impressed or concerned over your advice or demand that I not lecture you.
If there is a problem I am quite sure I will hear from the moderators or Daryl
Edited by Snoopy to remove private names. Bonnie, see my PM.
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No you are w-r-o-n-g Danny and 3ABN begged and pleaded with Linda to give up her wrong direction and she said no. She decided to pursue her own course of action and she reaped as you liked to put it the whirldwind. I am going to have to get a copy of that book if it really wipes out the 7th commandment, imagine that. Does it really Mr. Joy, is it missing from the book all together? How pompus "That, SAM, my man, is what really happened." Where you there? Did you hear that? Did you see that? or did one of your unamed sources tell you or did they tell someone who told someone who passed it along to someone who wrote you an email?
After reading over at bsda and on that site that you an Mr; Pickle run it would look to any rational, conservative minded individual that y'all made it public. No one was talking about it until you stampeded onto the scene thumping your chest and banging the war drum.
Sounds like all you got are a handful of disgruntled people with questionable connections who figured you would make enough noise for them that they wouldn't have to be responsible for their words. I noticed you didn't talk over at bsda but sent people to talk for you. So how come you are talking here?
If you can, just turn your statement around. Danny/3abn has been accused. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN FOUND GUILTY! I believe God would expect you to have the same standards for all here. Not double standards.
No, SAM, Danny and 3ABN first accused Linda Sue Shelton, banished her, then continued to slander and defame her, Danny divorced her and remarried a new young Filly. Did so without a biblical basis and then wrote Ten Commandments Twice Removed, emphasis on the Fourth, and threw out the seventh.
That, SAM, my man, is what really happened. And when someone showed up and dared to challenge the annointed, he pulled the biggest boo, boo of his career...took it from a quiet forum with ASI and made it a public matter before a US District Court...although they did try to Sequester the file...can't show anybody the evidence...which reminds me...they still have not produced, SAM...Think they have something big to hide!!! I think most of the evidence was imagination run wild, don't you?
But then, this is not so new...remember Mrs Germaine??? Yup, she had the courage to face the annointed and was quickly sent away...and how many others like her over the years. Problem is
they can't fire us so they tried sueing. What a disaster, what a PR bomb.
And now serving Linda...don't they know when to quit??? Don't they ever learn???
Gailon Arthur Joy
And, ANYMAN, I will stand by my sources and they will be raedy to testify in a US District Court. But. let me ask the same of you:
Where you there? Did you hear that? Did you see that? or did one of your unamed sources tell you or did they tell someone who told someone who passed it along to someone who wrote you an email?
At least I have the evidence and have been willing to produce it...and just where is 3ABN's evidence after four years???Better be good or you and your disgruntled Officers and Directors are in for one very big surprise!!!
Let's see, what is their combined net worth? I am sure a jury would make any award based on that and the value of the corporation based on a claim for punitive damages. YUP, PUNITIVES, for malicious and calculated effort to malign, defaame and slander a woman they have yet to produce the proof for.
You see, ANYMAN, there is a big difference between reporting information that has come from disgruntled employees and former employees and having DIGRUNTLED OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS
just go behind ones back and slander and malign someone, particularly if she is innocent.
You history, by the way, is not supported by the written record. What the written record shows is that Mr Miller in concert with DR WALTER THOMPSON (I'm pretty sure you know him) made arbitrary, capricious ultimatums that required an answer withing 24 hours. When Linda Sue Shelton requested additonal time to confer with her attorney who was in trial at the time, WELL GUESS WHAT, they terminated her without the authority of the Board. Then denied her access to the board.
Now, ANYMAN, would you be a bit disgruntled if this happened to you? Hum-m-m. you say it has, huh?
And then, if those who defended her honor were caste out as well, what would you expect? BUT, THEY WERE NEVER DISGRUNTLED ENOUGH TO USE A US DISTRICT COURT TO MAKE THEIR CLAIMS.
On the other hand, the officers and directors get caught after three years of silence AND THEY ARE DISGRUNTLED ENOUGH TO USE A US DISTRICT COURT. Then, you know what happens: What goes around comes around, or as Danny so frequently quotes, he that pushes a rock up-hill must be careful that it does not roll back upon him.
So, ANYMAN, wanna splain me who was the more DISGRUNTLED?
In the meantime, get the history right, as I know you have a much better handle on the facts than you pretend.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Now this is just ridiculous. nuff said. You seem to not be able to understand the path of this "discussion" here. Mr. Pickle and that Mr. Joy have spent a lot of time saying people said stuff when they clearly didn't. They have taken time to only feed you what they wanted you to read so they would look right - if you haven't taken the time I suggest you go over to that bsda site. It really opened my eyes this weekend to what these two are up to. Don't let them fool you and mislead you as it would be sad if your personal salvation ended up in their hands.
Anyman, when you show us where Linda says she committed spiritual adultery, (without a lot of "messing with it" to make it look that way), you can then make this demand. Until then, your indignation has a very hollow ring to it.
Playing ignorant again? Just woke up THIS WEEK-END??? Are you a disgruntled Officer or Director or is it the real history that is bowling you over?
Wake up and smell the roses...it is another great spring day...unless you are an officer or director of 3ABN, in which case it is just another day in paradise, until you read the latest communiques from Joy and Pickle, then you have to roll out the dart board, you know, the one right next to Bin Laden with THEIR effigies...then you have to throw a lot of darts and maybe even the paper-weight in frustration as you are handed another day of history in 3ABN vs Joy!!!
Boy, don't you just wish you had never filed that lawsuite???...they are hot on the trail of getting all that evidence and it means having to find yet another reason to stall!!! And those lawyers', they just insist on getting paid for their flights to New England and where-ever to try and keep the evidence under lock and key...why, because it tells the truth...LINDA WAS INNOCENT and now SHE is their biggest nightmare!!!
Need some Valium??? There is a good shrink in Carbondale. God can't do much for you until you confess and repent...so, maybe you could try the Witch of Endor!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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It is pretty obvious that they didn't owe you anything. Try taking your belcose chest thumping testosorone laden talk up to Congress and see who shows you anything. They will look at you and wonder who this NOMAN is. You didn't take the time to find out anything before you started attacking. I read somewhere over there or maybe it was in an email from the site you and Mr. Pickle put together where it was explained to you that the reason you didn't get a National Inquirer telling of the story is that it wouldn't have been good for Linda. But your going to start bellyaching about something that was said on tv and you won't even be able to give us transcript or any such thing. You will probably tell us to go look somewhere or listen to something but it won't be the actual thing.
Here is what is really laughable, rolling on the floor laughable, "copies of your website" who in the world are you talking to cause it sure aint me. Maybe you need to talk a long walk and clear your head and come back and talk to me and not who ever you were when you wrote this. You sure like to toss around accusation and try and make it look like you know what your talking about. Oh yea I get it you think I am Greg Thompson caus of the dad reference. You really need to try and get yourself booked on Jay Leno as a comedien. cept your not really funny - your just mean and unhappy.
Well, there we are again...historically challenged...don't you recall we spent a couple of months communicating with Danny and Walt and then ASI agreed to hold an ecclesiatical hearing?
Well, believe it or not, we spent quite a bit of time preparing for that hearing before 3ABN put the knife to the process. So, we actually investigated quite a bit and had several hundred documents for presentation to that tribunal as well as a few dozen witnesses, which is why we insisted we needed at least four days of presentation time.
Are you really that deficiaent or are you deliberately forgetting the real history here? Could it be that you have not read all the evidence? Could it be that you are complicit?
Unfortunately, ANYMAN, we were quite well prepared and even more so now. JUST WAITING FOR ALL THAT EVIDENCE THAT IS SUPPOSE TO EXONERATE DANNY AND CRUCIFY LINDA!!! A year later and they still have not produced it...in a Federal lawsuite, none-the-less. More motions to compell, I guess, and maybe this time we request a subpoena to go to the premises and collect docs, assuming there are any. But, we can certainly have fun in the financial department, with all those disgruntled employees that have their wages frozen while officers live well in Southern Illinois.
Gailon Arthur joy
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Edited to separate new post from quoted post.
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ADMIN HAT ON
Ozzie, you're right - I don't like you doing that!! Remember the discussion on respecting each other?
ADMIN HAT OFF
Oh yea Mr. Pickle there are a couple of times people have suggested that there might be a personal tie between you and all of this obssession with Tommy Shelton and you haven't answered. It might be of benefit to people if you come clean on that and indiciate if you have a personal experience that might make you harp on that one issue more than all the others.
Anyman, I'd call you a filthy grub, only that the Moderaters here might not like me doing that.
As I continually 'harp' on the same issues, what do you make of that? Perhaps insinuate that a male member of my family had something personal that was an obsession or personal tie between TS and themselves?
As you are insinuating some filthy behaviour here anyman, I suggest that you think very clearly about what you are suggesting and come clean on your motive for your insinuations.
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ADMIN HAT ON
Please refrain from objectionable language, and remember that AT's intent is for respectful discussion.
ADMIN HAT OFF
Now this is just ridiculous. nuff said. You seem to not be able to understand the path of this "discussion" here. Mr. Pickle and that Mr. Joy have spent a lot of time saying people said stuff when they clearly didn't. They have taken time to only feed you what they wanted you to read so they would look right - if you haven't taken the time I suggest you go over to that bsda site. It really opened my eyes this weekend to what these two are up to. Don't let them fool you and mislead you as it would be sad if your personal salvation ended up in their hands.
anyman, nothing ridiculous about what Bob and Gailon are doing. They don't 'feed' any one anything. It's all there in tidy documentation, but then, anyman/sam/dan... you sound so much like one who has a personal stake in this. In fact you sound like either Tommy or Dan themselves, or at the very least, one of their henchmen. What's their price, can you tell us?
Edited by Snoopy to remove objectionable content
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No you are w-r-o-n-g Danny and 3ABN begged and pleaded with Linda to give up her wrong direction and she said no. She decided to pursue her own course of action and she reaped as you liked to put it the whirldwind.
You speak as a serious 'insider' anyman. How could you know this to be the case, unless you were there ad heard Danny and 3abn pleading?
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ADMIN HAT ON
Ozzie, you're right - I don't like you doing that!! Remember the discussion on respecting each other?
ADMIN HAT OFF
Oh yea Mr. Pickle there are a couple of times people have suggested that there might be a personal tie between you and all of this obssession with Tommy Shelton and you haven't answered. It might be of benefit to people if you come clean on that and indiciate if you have a personal experience that might make you harp on that one issue more than all the others.
Anyman, I'd call you a filthy grub, only that the Moderaters here might not like me doing that.
As I continually 'harp' on the same issues, what do you make of that? Perhaps insinuate that a male member of my family had something personal that was an obsession or personal tie between TS and themselves?
As you are insinuating some filthy behaviour here anyman, I suggest that you think very clearly about what you are suggesting and come clean on your motive for your insinuations.
My apologies Snoopy. When I see insinuations like that, I just see RED.
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Tammy is Danny's sister. Thus out of the family of 5 siblings, there are serious allegations of immorality against at least three.
Shame on you Bob Pickle. Anyone can make allegations, and spread rumors to others. I've heard several about you but that doesn't make them true. As anyman pointed out ,what is your motivation for making allegations against people that have nothing to do with you and your cause? The obvious answer seems to be that you have such a bitter hatred toward Danny and 3abn that you will try and crucify anyone that has any connection with them. If you ever had half a chance of being believed and having credibility to those in the Adventist churches, you are blowing it all when you make accusations towards those that have nothing to do with your "so called" cause. The only thing it proves about you is a petty, mean spirited soul who doesn't care who he hurts as long as it can make Danny/3abn look bad. But that brings up another point. If every allegation you make is true, do you know if repentance has been made, forgiveness given, wrongs made right as they possibly can be? If you don't have the answer to these questions you have no business repeating anything about anybody in the first place. Ever read "he who is without sin cast the first stone?" Or how about "all have sinned and come short?" Everyone has made mistakes. Everyone has sinned, including you. Would you like those who know about some of your sins to make them public? Better yet how would you like to be publicaly accused for sins you didn't commit?
Yes, I already know what you will reply that Danny was president of a ministry blah blah and a public figure and if any of your allegations were found true, they should be made public and on and on...
First let me say, you have made yourself a somewhat public figure. So, should 3abn start calling people in your past, churches you have been a member of, people you have had trouble with so they can start digging up your dirt and then, make it public? After all you put yourself in this position.
Then, if that wouldn't be bad enough maybe they should start looking at your siblings, parents, aunts, uncles, cousins and see what they can come up with? According to your ethics, doesn't matter if what they hear is true or not, as long as someone heard that it was so. Again, according to your methods, it is ok to spread it and make it as public as possible.
Now let's ask ourselves ,if rumors 3abn heard about you, turned out to be true, should you be held responsible for any shortcomings of your family members or friends? That is where you are putting Danny. Anyone that you make allegations towards, in your mind, leads back to Danny. Somehow he is responsible for the actions of others. If they did wrong, must be his/3abn's fault. Or, if they actually didn't do wrong, but you heard they did, then that becomes more ammo against Danny/3abn.
Bob I have had the opportunity to talk to many that hold important leadership positions. Conference workers, ministers, evangelists and it seems that everyone but you can see that you have stepped way beyond the bounds of what you say your original mission was. You have obviously defamed, slandered and caused pain to innocent people that have done nothing to you. Most in leadership positions that I have talked to don't want to read anything that you have written but if they have, they see exactly how flawed your logic is, and how your thoughts are on evil continually. As in...who can I stab today to make Danny/3abn look bad?
Those that don't hate you, feel sorry for you. They worry for your soul because of the hatred and mean spirit that you operate with. Bob, for your own sake, take off the blinders, see what you are doing to others.
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Gailon, do you think that holds true about 3ABN - that anyone who made a contribution may look at the books? I think I might like to do that.
In the interim, anyone who made a contribution may look at any books they may wish to and determine how contributions have been made and whether they have been spent appropriately. I can assure you we have not even taken in enough money to begin to compare with the 3ABN / Shelton book deals or the cash advances taken or the use of the credit card or the E-bay issues.
GAilon Arthur Joy
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Edited by Snoopy to remove private names. Bonnie, see my PM.
Thanks for doing that. Name is no secret but that post was personal, not by someone that does not know me
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Today, as I read the current posts, I became a little sick. I knew the mud would get stronger. Those standing for Danny will do their best to discredit each and every person on the list of individuals from Bluehost
I expect to be called all sorts on names and they will do all they can to erode any credibility I may have had. It will not be hard for them to find things to say about me. See how easy it has been for other to destroy Bob and Gailon’s credibility.
I firmly believe Bob and Gailon have done a wonderful job of discovery and reporting their findings. I find everything credible. I believe the emails from Danny and Linda. Danny is not stupid. He knew what he was saying and upon reading each one, I found that Danny is a person that is worthy of our love through Jesus Christ. In cases like this, each of us needs to keep in mind that Jesus died for Danny’s sins! If he were the only one saved, it would be through Danny accepting forgiveness and turning from those sins. The same would be for me and my sins.
Adventist Programming through 3ABN is still being used to save souls for Christ. When this began, I would post pointing out where and how errors were made, and Danny/3ABN would make corrective changes. I truly felt they were turning around. Later I learned that not all evil was changed, and that even today there are changes that need to be made, but much has changes since Jim Gilley arrived on the scene. I firmly believe from the 990’s and Audit reports reflect that certain changes have NOT taken place. I pray for each item.
We must also remember it is NOT 3ABN that saves! Jesus Saves! The Holy Spirit works with each and every one of us in the manor that is necessary for each of us as individuals.
I made the quoted post below, over on MSDAOL. Maybe it should be here too. I believe there are some deep rooted strings to things that may have happened when they were children.
We do not understand why some cannot see the problems. But others see it, but are active in covering up any evil actions because they have many dollars invested previously in 3ABN. They believe in the mission of 3ABN. (So do I, by the way) Therefore, they are doing everything in their power to shut every one's mouths about the evil that has been happening for years.
Then there are other defenders and many may fall into the categories in my post from MSDAOL. It may help me and others to see what it is that may have happened and the paths through life that each one has chosen.
Jesus asks us, and has taught us, to love the sinners, but hate the sin. I am so sorry the courts were the route chosen by some.
What a person learns as a child will have a bearing on their beliefs as adults. Children, who are raised among all the evil sexual things some here detest, can't help but to see it with different eyes.
Many believe these acts take place in every person’s life. It is like, "So what, get over it already!.
Each child from this evil sexual background will have choices to make as to the life path they will take. There are several directions for them to pursue in their adult life.
Some will continue to pursue the same evil lifestyle they lived as a child. They will pursue it with a great passion; while others will hate where they have been and do their best to see that children are made as safe as possible. Yet, not just children, but adults must be safe as well. (Please help by Donating to Polly's Place)
Then there are those that get stuck in the middle. They learn knowledge of truth and realize what went on was evil. They speak and believe what is right, but there is this strong rope that pulls with a super human strength that is evil and hard to explain. The connections to the past are woven into their character. They have not turned the rope over to Christ to be able to let it go. They find themselves falling back into the same evil of their childhood after they become adults. When they were children they were highly desired. In adult life they are drawn to children the same way they ancestors were. They live on vicious cycles.
Then it is found that there are so many with this background problem, that when it is brought to public about one of them, they will defend the others by minimizing their evil actions.
I believe that may be a possibility with some that are die hard defenders of the wrong sexual activities of others.
The problem should be a major concern of every Church in the world! Educate, Educate, Educate! Stop covering those practicing and hiding this evil sin.
I am from one of those groups of children. I have chosen to break the chain cycle! I pray that more will look to the Lord for courage to call sin by its rightful name.
We must remember to love the sinner and hate the sin. It is possible! I know it is possible from personal experience.
Please, come, Lord Jesus!
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So can you produce the email in it's original format where Danny says to Linda, to you to anyone that he intenttionally and maliciously divorced Linda without any certaintly that she had been unfaithful? Can you do that? Right now it doesn't seem as if you can. It seems as if you can only show people a few words that no one knows if they are presented honestly. Makes you look rather weak.
Did you click on the link and read the huge number of "few words" that are in that email? Here's the link again:
To Linda Danny wrote almost a month after the divorce, on July 17, 2004: (http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-demise-of-marriage-no-proof.htm)
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No, SAM, Danny and 3ABN first accused Linda Sue Shelton, banished her, then continued to slander and defame her, Danny divorced her and remarried a new young Filly.
Maybe Sam and Anyman would like you to prove that Danny really did divorce Linda and that he really did get remarried.
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No one was talking about it until you stampeded onto the scene thumping your chest and banging the war drum.
Which allegation was no one talking about until we made it public?
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Response number 1, no you didn't
Yes I did.
response numer 2, weak, if it were it a duck it wouldn't quack, lay an egg, or paddle the pond. Seems like your picking on people who aren't even a part of your whole debacle.
Sure, she's involved. Danny dumped Linda because she talked on the phone too much to Arild Abrahamsen, and yet didn't fire Melody for having an unwed pregnancy, Tommy for alleged pedophilia, and Tammy for an alleged incestuous affair. The huge disparity between how Danny dealt with Linda vs. how he dealt with melody, Tommy, and Tammy suggests that if Linda really had been guilty of fornication, Danny would not have fired her. Perhaps she even would have gotten a promotion.
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Shame on you Bob Pickle. Anyone can make allegations, and spread rumors to others. I've heard several about you but that doesn't make them true. As anyman pointed out ,what is your motivation for making allegations against people that have nothing to do with you and your cause?
I didn't make the allegations. If you have a problem with them, talk to those that made them.
The obvious answer seems to be that you have such a bitter hatred toward Danny and 3abn that you will try and crucify anyone that has any connection with them.
Not at all. Long ago someone compared 3ABN to Peyton Place. With these kind of allegations spanning 20+ years, sounds like a fitting comparison.
God's remnant church doesn't need rampant, flagrant, undisciplined immorality connected to a supporting ministry.
If you ever had half a chance of being believed and having credibility to those in the Adventist churches, you are blowing it all when you make accusations towards those that have nothing to do with your "so called" cause.
The way Danny dealt with Tammy Chance's alleged incestuous affair is relevant to the question of his competence and moral qualifications of running such an important ministry as 3ABN.
If every allegation you make is true, do you know if repentance has been made, forgiveness given, wrongs made right as they possibly can be?
That's an excellent question. If the allegation is true, has Tammy repented? Excellent question.
Still, if Linda could get dumped for talking too long on the telephone, if we apply the same standard to Tammy, Tammy would never have been able to come close to being on the air again at 3ABN, even if she had repented. So my gut feeling is that we may have another example of Danny's lack of concern regarding vile sin in the camp.
If you don't have the answer to these questions you have no business repeating anything about anybody in the first place. Ever read "he who is without sin cast the first stone?"
If you are insinuating that I led Tammy Chance into sin and am thus disqualified from casting the first stone, that suggestion is preposterous.
So, should 3abn start calling people in your past, churches you have been a member of, people you have had trouble with so they can start digging up your dirt and then, make it public?
Interesting you should ask. Ronnie Shelton asked that too. Are you Ronnie? If so, that might explain why you are getting bent out of shape.
Now let's ask ourselves ,if rumors 3abn heard about you, turned out to be true, should you be held responsible for any shortcomings of your family members or friends? That is where you are putting Danny.
My family members don't run a huge supporting ministry. None of them have been accused of incestuous affairs, pedophilia, or divorcing their spouse for talking too long on the telephone. None of them have been accused of retaliatory firings of whistle blowers, tax fraud, private inurement, vindictive, frivolous lawsuits, and the like.
Anyone that you make allegations towards, in your mind, leads back to Danny. Somehow he is responsible for the actions of others.
No, he is responsible for his own actions of not investigating and dealing with serious allegations of immorality and the like.
Most in leadership positions that I have talked to don't want to read anything that you have written but if they have, they see exactly how flawed your logic is, and how your thoughts are on evil continually.
I don't believe you, unless you have confined your discussions to church leaders who are as liberal as Pastor Ronnie Shelton or his wife Teresa may be when it comes to appropriately dealing with those who have a "sexual orientation" of homosexuality or pedophilia.
Those that don't hate you, feel sorry for you. They worry for your soul because of the hatred and mean spirit that you operate with. Bob, for your own sake, take off the blinders, see what you are doing to others.
No hatred here. Just concern. And concern about your soul, Sam. True, Bible-believing, Bible-following Adventists don't get all bent out of shape and attack someone who is concerned about pedophilia and incest like you have. Come back to the narrow way, Sam, the narrow way of those who believe that all the Ten Commandments should be kept and upheld.
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Response number 1, no you didn't
Yes I did.
response numer 2, weak, if it were it a duck it wouldn't quack, lay an egg, or paddle the pond. Seems like your picking on people who aren't even a part of your whole debacle.
Sure, she's involved. Danny dumped Linda because she talked on the phone too much to Arild Abrahamsen, and yet didn't fire Melody for having an unwed pregnancy, Tommy for alleged pedophilia, and Tammy for an alleged incestuous affair. The huge disparity between how Danny dealt with Linda vs. how he dealt with melody, Tommy, and Tammy suggests that if Linda really had been guilty of fornication, Danny would not have fired her. Perhaps she even would have gotten a promotion.
BINGO! :rabbit:
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Gailon, do you think that holds true about 3ABN - that anyone who made a contribution may look at the books? I think I might like to do that.
In the interim, anyone who made a contribution may look at any books they may wish to and determine how contributions have been made and whether they have been spent appropriately. I can assure you we have not even taken in enough money to begin to compare with the 3ABN / Shelton book deals or the cash advances taken or the use of the credit card or the E-bay issues.
GAilon Arthur Joy
No, they do not actually subscribe to being "open and transparent" as their immutable chairman has claimed...after all, where is all that evidence they had against Linda. They have a vital interest in self preservation to roll out the evidence and fire back and they just don't have it in them. Of course, they claim a sanctimoniuos attitude, but then file suite to prevent the investigation from continuing and the disclosure from seeing the light of day.
The reality is now clear...like theior statements, their evidence is "factually challenged" and best described as another Danny Dream!!!
The same thing goes for the books...they claim their attorneys gave a clean bill of health and their auditors did the same. But, they have not discovered to us or to the courts any "clean bill of health" and refuse to discover the auditors records. One must assume these are deficient as well given the recent complaint to the board by a former financial staffer and a seperate complaint to the Illinois Attorney General.
But, I would encourage you to ask and then report back with your findings.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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It sounds to me like Mr. Anyman has a bone to pick with Linda Shelton... :dunno:
No you are w-r-o-n-g Danny and 3ABN begged and pleaded with Linda to give up her wrong direction and she said no. She decided to pursue her own course of action and she reaped as you liked to put it the whirldwind. I am going to have to get a copy of that book if it really wipes out the 7th commandment, imagine that. Does it really Mr. Joy, is it missing from the book all together? How pompus "That, SAM, my man, is what really happened." Where you there? Did you hear that? Did you see that? or did one of your unamed sources tell you or did they tell someone who told someone who passed it along to someone who wrote you an email?
After reading over at bsda and on that site that you an Mr; Pickle run it would look to any rational, conservative minded individual that y'all made it public. No one was talking about it until you stampeded onto the scene thumping your chest and banging the war drum.
Sounds like all you got are a handful of disgruntled people with questionable connections who figured you would make enough noise for them that they wouldn't have to be responsible for their words. I noticed you didn't talk over at bsda but sent people to talk for you. So how come you are talking here?
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I don't believe you, unless you have confined your discussions to church leaders who are as liberal as Pastor Ronnie Shelton or his wife Teresa may be when it comes to appropriately dealing with those who have a "sexual orientation" of homosexuality or pedophilia.
I would like to know if Ronnie or Teresa were referring to Tommy's orientation toward men or toward children when those comments were made on BlackSDA. Do you know, Sam or anyman?
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It sounds to me like Mr. Anyman has a bone to pick with Linda Shelton... :dunno:
That's right you don't know. you weren't privy to all the communications and meetings with Linda. You weren't in the 3abn board meetings, you weren't in on the Church discipline meetings... They handled their business, and frankly it really isn't anyone elses business.
And respectfully snoopy, I have to disagree with you, it doesn't sound like Linda is the focus of Mr anyman's wrath to me. Pickle, Joy and Co. brought her up... It sounds to me like Mr. anyman is "replying" and disagreeing with and has a bone to pick with what is being falsely reported here by others (Pickle, Joy and Co.) who also weren't there and also don't know...
No you are w-r-o-n-g Danny and 3ABN begged and pleaded with Linda to give up her wrong direction and she said no. She decided to pursue her own course of action and she reaped as you liked to put it the whirldwind. I am going to have to get a copy of that book if it really wipes out the 7th commandment, imagine that. Does it really Mr. Joy, is it missing from the book all together? How pompus "That, SAM, my man, is what really happened." Where you there? Did you hear that? Did you see that? or did one of your unamed sources tell you or did they tell someone who told someone who passed it along to someone who wrote you an email?
After reading over at bsda and on that site that you an Mr; Pickle run it would look to any rational, conservative minded individual that y'all made it public. No one was talking about it until you stampeded onto the scene thumping your chest and banging the war drum.
Sounds like all you got are a handful of disgruntled people with questionable connections who figured you would make enough noise for them that they wouldn't have to be responsible for their words. I noticed you didn't talk over at bsda but sent people to talk for you. So how come you are talking here?
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Gailon, do you think that holds true about 3ABN - that anyone who made a contribution may look at the books? I think I might like to do that.
In the interim, anyone who made a contribution may look at any books they may wish to and determine how contributions have been made and whether they have been spent appropriately. I can assure you we have not even taken in enough money to begin to compare with the 3ABN / Shelton book deals or the cash advances taken or the use of the credit card or the E-bay issues.
GAilon Arthur Joy
No, they do not actually subscribe to being "open and transparent" as their immutable chairman has claimed...after all, where is all that evidence they had against Linda. They have a vital interest in self preservation to roll out the evidence and fire back and they just don't have it in them. Of course, they claim a sanctimoniuos attitude, but then file suite to prevent the investigation from continuing and the disclosure from seeing the light of day.
The reality is now clear...like theior statements, their evidence is "factually challenged" and best described as another Danny Dream!!!
The same thing goes for the books...they claim their attorneys gave a clean bill of health and their auditors did the same. But, they have not discovered to us or to the courts any "clean bill of health" and refuse to discover the auditors records. One must assume these are deficient as well given the recent complaint to the board by a former financial staffer and a seperate complaint to the Illinois Attorney General.
But, I would encourage you to ask and then report back with your findings.
Gailon Arthur Joy
I would also encourage you to check with other independant ministries and ask them if you can see their books and also report their answers back here...
Mr Joy, who as we know has a proven, not 'alleged" history of financial impropriaties (embezzlement) has so far refused to open his books up too...
I would encourage you to ask him why he doesn't lead by example and be "open and transparent" with his donors, (re Pickle- Joy defense fund) and do so.
For it appears from PACER documents, that after already being found in contempt once, he again disobeyed a court order and was less than forthcoming and prevented the 2004examination the court ordered from proceeding...
5. Furthermore, pursuant to an Order of the Court entered on March 3, 2008,
3ABN issued a Subpoena to the Debtor regarding the production of documents
and to conduct a Rule 2004 Examination. That Examination was scheduled for April 15, 2008. Notwithstanding that the Subpoena requested that documents were to be produced several days earlier, the Debtor did not produce any documents until he arrived for the April 15th Examination. Furthermore, 3ABN states that the documents the Debtor did produce were minimal and not responsive to the scope of the request. Accordingly, as 3ABN did not have any substantive documents to review, the Examination did not go forward.
3ABN is exploring its options with respect to its perception regarding the
Debtor's lack of cooperation, and the rescheduling of the Rule 2004
Examination....
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Shame on you Bob Pickle. Anyone can make allegations, and spread rumors to others. I've heard several about you but that doesn't make them true. As anyman pointed out ,what is your motivation for making allegations against people that have nothing to do with you and your cause?
I didn't make the allegations. If you have a problem with them, talk to those that made them.
:huh:
How would we do so, as Mr Pickle just keeps repeating malicious slander and dirt which he hears from others, and doesn't ever tell us who "them" is???
For example no one but Mr Pickle has posted any allegations about Tammy Chance and he has done so repeatedly...and that is what he was being found in fault for here. I also say "For shame"
Yet he claims he didn't make the allegations...
If he is talebearing, and repeating gossip and lies... and publishing and announcing them to all, then HE IS MAKING THE ALLEGATIONS. Don't be confused folks. He himself is responsible and accountable in the eyes of God
and no amount of squirming nor games with words is going to change that.
And those who back him and defend him are all equally accountable. This isn't funny, it is not kind and it is not love.
Look at what he said here:
"The way Danny dealt with Tammy Chance's alleged incestuous affair is relevant to the question of his competence and moral qualifications of running such an important ministry as 3ABN."
He is finnding fault with DS here for how he dealt with something which he claims is "alleged" and offers no proof that it ever came up with DS, or was dealt with, or even occured, much less, that it was dealt with the wrong way.
Folks, this is absolutely absurd! these accusations and condemnations of Danny Shelton have gone way beyond what is considered sane or rational.
Now Danny's sister like so many others such as his daughter, has been added to the list of those Pickle acts toward while thinking he is doing God service.
And I do not say that lightly.
character assassination is equal to murder in my book.
Whatever the deal with Melody's baby, She has hurt nor caused no harm to any, esp Mr Pickle, and I do NOT think she needs to be crucified nor sacrificed because of it. It is public knowledge she was rebaptised along with her husband at that time. The bottom line here is does the blood of Christ cover any sin she may or may not have committed?
because if it does, no one would dare accuse her with her past, or any other after that in regards to how they dealt with that, except the accuser of the brethren.
And people if the blood of Christ is lacking here and does not cover Melody's past, or that of any other who has repented and given themselves to the Lord, then we are all in serious trouble!
Folks, the end does not justify the means, and what is being said and done here is wrong, just as so much before this has been.
Who will Pickle assassinate and attack next?
It never seems to end with him...
Nor does your tolerance and condoning by turning your eyes away or by your silence, or lack of action, and even unbelievably some's verbal/written defense of such.
for shame on you all.
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For example no one but Mr Pickle has posted any allegations about Tammy Chance and he has done so repeatedly...and that is what he was being found in fault for here.
Not so. I am not the only one who has posted such, nor was I the first.
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For it appears from PACER documents, that after already being found in contempt once, he again disobeyed a court order and was less than forthcoming and prevented the 2004examination the court ordered from proceeding...
So are statements by 3ABN attorneys credible? Can you prove that they are?
Is this case the adversarial proceeding or the ch. 7 bankruptcy?
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For example no one but Mr Pickle has posted any allegations about Tammy Chance and he has done so repeatedly...and that is what he was being found in fault for here.
Not so. I am not the only one who has posted such, nor was I the first.
A number of people who know the Shelton family, or are related to them, know about Tammy's relationship with her cousin and that it resulted in the birth of their child. They also know that Tommy molested a member of his own family in addition to other boys and young men. Linda's daughter has also stated that Danny acted inappropriately toward her. Kenny had an affair during his marriage, divorced his wife and married his much younger lover. Melody had a number of affairs during her first marriage. It appears that there is a problem with sexual boundaries for Danny, his siblings, continuing on to the next generation.
Ian, too many people know too many facts. It is too late to try to do damage control about all the improprieties that have taken place with Danny and his extended family through denying the truth now. Once a fact is known by more than one individual it is no longer a secret. Danny is only deluding himself if he thinks otherwise. Labeling those individuals that become whistle blowers as only disgruntled ex-employees, mentally ill, or liars is no longer working. The deceptive web of lies that has existed in the management level of 3ABN is slowly unraveling and is being documented for all to see. Wake up and smell the aroma, it is not the scent of roses, but the stench of unrepentant sin that is filling the nostrils.
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For example no one but Mr Pickle has posted any allegations about Tammy Chance and he has done so repeatedly...and that is what he was being found in fault for here.
Not so. I am not the only one who has posted such, nor was I the first.
Folks, this is a a childish argument.
If any but Mr Pickle has brought this up here or brought it before him here as he is claiming, then let him provide the link and prove it.
And let him address the actual point for once repeating and bringing up dirt on people which you have no proof of is talebearing (gossip or slander) and is sin! and claiming you aren't the one making any allegations when doing such is less than honest, and being loving.
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For example no one but Mr Pickle has posted any allegations about Tammy Chance and he has done so repeatedly...and that is what he was being found in fault for here.
Not so. I am not the only one who has posted such, nor was I the first.
A number of people who know the Shelton family, or are related to them, know about Tammy's relationship with her cousin and that it resulted in the birth of their child. They also know that Tommy molested a member of his own family in addition to other boys and young men. Linda's daughter has also stated that Danny acted inappropriately toward her. Kenny had an affair during his marriage, divorced his wife and married his much younger lover. Melody had a number of affairs during her first marriage. It appears that there is a problem with sexual boundaries for Danny, his siblings, continuing on to the next generation.
Ian, too many people know too many facts. It is too late to try to do damage control about all the improprieties that have taken place with Danny and his extended family through denying the truth now. Once a fact is known by more than one individual it is no longer a secret. Danny is only deluding himself if he thinks otherwise. Labeling those individuals that become whistle blowers as only disgruntled ex-employees, mentally ill, or liars is no longer working. The deceptive web of lies that has existed in the management level of 3ABN is slowly unraveling and is being documented for all to see. Wake up and smell the aroma, it is not the scent of roses, but the stench of unrepentant sin that is filling the nostrils.
Sister,
Again, there you go with the anonymous people who know and or say things!
People can and do say anything in this world and lots of it is hateful! Hatemongers do not by a majority vote determine what is facts.
You are nothing, if not consistant in your continued attacks of the Shelton family,and particularly Danny.
That axe you keep grinding is obvious to those who really know who you are and the truth about you and how short your actual time at 3abn actually was.
Like Bob, you simply repeat what others say and put all in the worst light and claim you do it out of love and concern. But all you are doing is talebearing also. When you call things facts, you may have a little group fooled, but sister, I ain't one of them.
It's sin, and you are going to have to answer for that.
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Folks, this is a a childish argument.
If any but Mr Pickle has brought this up here or brought it before him here as he is claiming, then let him provide the link and prove it.
And let him address the actual point for once repeating and bringing up dirt on people which you have no proof of is talebearing (gossip or slander) and is sin! and claiming you aren't the one making any allegations when doing such is less than honest, and being loving.
If only you Danny clones would simply shut up and surrender, this whole tragic saga could be discussed a lot more discretely and embarrass far fewer people.
As a case in point, since you insist on knowing where it was discussed and what was said, (http://cafesda.blogspot.com/2006/08/atoday-on-latest-3abn-news_21.html?showComment=1186156260000#c2692323874694464647) here it is:
will-brie said...
3 ABN has had questionable issues since the very begining. I know I was there when it first started. I saw plenty, and I heard plenty concerning Tommy, and many other family members. One thing that has never been discussed, but a lot of people that work there knew about is the adulterous affair Dannys sister had while she was married with her married cousin. That was two or three years before 3ABN. Then almost as soon as 3ABN was up and running she had another affair with another married man while they both worked at 3ABN. They would meet at her best friends house, motels, and back seats of cars. When she was confronted by the wife of the man it was`nt long until the wife received a letter revoking her membership from the SDA church. Shortly after that the man became very ill (he suffered from chrons disease and stress can make chrons much worse) He had surgery and was lucky to be alive. After a long recovery he called Danny to let him know he was ready to return to 3ABN. Danny told him he thought he quit and no longer had a job. Danny knew better. He should have been fired, but his sister should have been fired to. She was`nt. Shes still there doing probably what she does best. Is there any wonder with people like the Sheltons running 3ABN it is crumbling. Danny and his family seems to forget that GOD sees ALL, and knows ALL.
8:51 AM
truth4ever said...
will- brie`s comments were true except for one thing. Dannys sisters 2nd child was a result of the affair with her cousin which all the Sheltons were aware of. They always protect there own no mater what there sins are. Please help save 3ABN by ridding it of these people who think there above GODS commandments!
12:27 PM
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Folks, this is a a childish argument.
If any but Mr Pickle has brought this up here or brought it before him here as he is claiming, then let him provide the link and prove it.
And let him address the actual point for once repeating and bringing up dirt on people which you have no proof of is talebearing (gossip or slander) and is sin! and claiming you aren't the one making any allegations when doing such is less than honest, and being loving.
If only you Danny clones would simply shut up and surrender, this whole tragic saga could be discussed a lot more discretely and embarrass far fewer people.
As a case in point, since you insist on knowing where it was discussed and what was said, (http://cafesda.blogspot.com/2006/08/atoday-on-latest-3abn-news_21.html?showComment=1186156260000#c2692323874694464647) here it is:
will-brie said...
3 ABN has had questionable issues since the very begining. I know I was there when it first started. I saw plenty, and I heard plenty concerning Tommy, and many other family members. One thing that has never been discussed, but a lot of people that work there knew about is the adulterous affair Dannys sister had while she was married with her married cousin. That was two or three years before 3ABN. Then almost as soon as 3ABN was up and running she had another affair with another married man while they both worked at 3ABN. They would meet at her best friends house, motels, and back seats of cars. When she was confronted by the wife of the man it was`nt long until the wife received a letter revoking her membership from the SDA church. Shortly after that the man became very ill (he suffered from chrons disease and stress can make chrons much worse) He had surgery and was lucky to be alive. After a long recovery he called Danny to let him know he was ready to return to 3ABN. Danny told him he thought he quit and no longer had a job. Danny knew better. He should have been fired, but his sister should have been fired to. She was`nt. Shes still there doing probably what she does best. Is there any wonder with people like the Sheltons running 3ABN it is crumbling. Danny and his family seems to forget that GOD sees ALL, and knows ALL.
8:51 AM
truth4ever said...
will- brie`s comments were true except for one thing. Dannys sisters 2nd child was a result of the affair with her cousin which all the Sheltons were aware of. They always protect there own no mater what there sins are. Please help save 3ABN by ridding it of these people who think there above GODS commandments!
12:27 PM
Bob knows that's not from here! No one brought it up here but him, repeatedly. Edited by Moderator for inapropriate comments. He is the one who brought up the allegations here.
AND? Is this his source?!? Give me a break! Edited by Moderator for inappropriate commnts.
People wake up! and stop drinking the koolaid! It's poison!
I would not be surprised at all to find it's sister and one of the other critics here in another forum under other ids, considering it sounds to me like just what sister just posted here...
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Now Ian, see if you can get a sworn statement from Danny that he never heard of these allegations before. Not that that would mean much, since he has already told falsehoods in sworn statements.
But it would still mean something. If Danny could but state that he never heard of these allegations and that is why he never fired Tammy over the many years over these allegations, then it might not look as strange when compared to how he got Linda fired in just months for talking too long on the telephone to a doctor who lived thousands of miles away.
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Bob knows that's not from here!
So? I never said it was.
AND? Is this his source?!?
No. It is not my source.
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For it appears from PACER documents, that after already being found in contempt once, he again disobeyed a court order and was less than forthcoming and prevented the 2004examination the court ordered from proceeding...
So are statements by 3ABN attorneys credible? Can you prove that they are?
Is this case the adversarial proceeding or the ch. 7 bankruptcy?
Hint: :hamster:
Go here for answer please:
http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php?topic=184.msg4778#msg4778
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Pickle said:
If only you Danny clones would simply shut up and surrender, this whole tragic saga could be discussed a lot more discretely and embarrass far fewer people.
As if we're bringing it up or the reason that he is...? "the devil made me do it?
That don't wash. I am only replying to his talebearing.
And btw, I am not a Danny clone and don't appreciate being called that or told to shut up and surrender... nor would anyone else I am sure...
Bob knows that's not from here!
So? I never said it was.
But he does know that is what I was talking about and what the subject was...
I said:"If any but Mr Pickle has brought this up here or brought it before him here as he is claiming, then let him provide the link and prove it."
AND? Is this his source?!?
No. It is not my source.
Really?
Then kindly pm me your source's contact information so I may investigate and question this for myself.
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Reporters don't do that to their sources.
Call up Tammy yourself, or her husband, or Tommy, or Ronnie, or Kennie, or Emma Lou, or Teresa, or Carol, and ask away.
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Well thank you for the respect Ian - I really appreciate it!! And I respectfully disagree with you on a couple of things!!
First, 3ABN's business IS anyone else's business if the "anyone else" is a donor!!
And second, I really do feel like anyman has a personal bone to pick with Linda...can't quite put my finger on it but it is definitely personal. You can certainly disagree with me - but that is my opinion!!
That's right you don't know. you weren't privy to all the communications and meetings with Linda. You weren't in the 3abn board meetings, you weren't in on the Church discipline meetings... They handled their business, and frankly it really isn't anyone elses business.
And respectfully snoopy, I have to disagree with you, it doesn't sound like Linda is the focus of Mr anyman's wrath to me. Pickle, Joy and Co. brought her up... It sounds to me like Mr. anyman is "replying" and disagreeing with and has a bone to pick with what is being falsely reported here by others (Pickle, Joy and Co.) who also weren't there and also don't know...
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Aaww, Ian - thanks so much for the encouragement...
However, it is not other independent ministries I have an interest in or a concern with. And as for the transparency of the Pickle-Joy defense fund, how would you know about that? Have you contributed? If not, I guess it makes that none of YOUR business!!
I would also encourage you to check with other independant ministries and ask them if you can see their books and also report their answers back here...
Mr Joy, who as we know has a proven, not 'alleged" history of financial impropriaties (embezzlement) has so far refused to open his books up too...
I would encourage you to ask him why he doesn't lead by example and be "open and transparent" with his donors, (re Pickle- Joy defense fund) and do so.
For it appears from PACER documents, that after already being found in contempt once, he again disobeyed a court order and was less than forthcoming and prevented the 2004examination the court ordered from proceeding...
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Welll, there you go... Just get rebaptized and all is well. Did it ever dawn on you that Melody's actions might have caused serious harm and pain to others besides Mr. Pickle??
Whatever the deal with Melody's baby, She has hurt nor caused no harm to any, esp Mr Pickle, and I do NOT think she needs to be crucified nor sacrificed because of it. It is public knowledge she was rebaptised along with her husband at that time. The bottom line here is does the blood of Christ cover any sin she may or may not have committed?
because if it does, no one would dare accuse her with her past, or any other after that in regards to how they dealt with that, except the accuser of the brethren.
And people if the blood of Christ is lacking here and does not cover Melody's past, or that of any other who has repented and given themselves to the Lord, then we are all in serious trouble!
Folks, the end does not justify the means, and what is being said and done here is wrong, just as so much before this has been.
Who will Pickle assassinate and attack next?
It never seems to end with him...
Nor does your tolerance and condoning by turning your eyes away or by your silence, or lack of action, and even unbelievably some's verbal/written defense of such.
for shame on you all.
-
If only you Danny clones would simply shut up and surrender, this whole tragic saga could be discussed a lot more discretely and embarrass far fewer people.
As a case in point, since you insist on knowing where it was discussed and what was said, (http://cafesda.blogspot.com/2006/08/atoday-on-latest-3abn-news_21.html?showComment=1186156260000#c2692323874694464647) here it is:
And there it is . . . wonder how often Christ said that? It look like that someone who >claims< to be doing the work of the Lord wouldn't display such an unchristian attitude. It looks like that you are essentially admitting that you don't operate with Christian standards when you say that if other people will stop disagreeing with you and showing people how you are wrong then you will stop attackign people. You know essentially admiting that the only reason you start attacking people is because you don't like it when someone proves you wrong.
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Folks, this is a a childish argument.
If any but Mr Pickle has brought this up here or brought it before him here as he is claiming, then let him provide the link and prove it.
And let him address the actual point for once repeating and bringing up dirt on people which you have no proof of is talebearing (gossip or slander) and is sin! and claiming you aren't the one making any allegations when doing such is less than honest, and being loving.
If only you Danny clones would simply shut up and surrender, this whole tragic saga could be discussed a lot more discretely and embarrass far fewer people.
As a case in point, since you insist on knowing where it was discussed and what was said, (http://cafesda.blogspot.com/2006/08/atoday-on-latest-3abn-news_21.html?showComment=1186156260000#c2692323874694464647) here it is:
will-brie said...
3 ABN has had questionable issues since the very beginning. I know I was there when it first started. I saw plenty, and I heard plenty concerning Tommy, and many other family members. One thing that has never been discussed, but a lot of people that work there knew about is the adulterous affair Danny's sister had while she was married with her married cousin. That was two or three years before 3ABN. Then almost as soon as 3ABN was up and running she had another affair with another married man while they both worked at 3ABN. They would meet at her best friends house, motels, and back seats of cars. When she was confronted by the wife of the man it was`nt long until the wife received a letter revoking her membership from the SDA church. Shortly after that the man became very ill (he suffered from chrons disease and stress can make chrons much worse) He had surgery and was lucky to be alive. After a long recovery he called Danny to let him know he was ready to return to 3ABN. Danny told him he thought he quit and no longer had a job. Danny knew better. He should have been fired, but his sister should have been fired to. She was`nt. Shes still there doing probably what she does best. Is there any wonder with people like the Sheltons running 3ABN it is crumbling. Danny and his family seems to forget that GOD sees ALL, and knows ALL.
8:51 AM
truth4ever said...
will- brie`s comments were true except for one thing. Dannys sisters 2nd child was a result of the affair with her cousin which all the Sheltons were aware of. They always protect there own no mater what there sins are. Please help save 3ABN by ridding it of these people who think there above GODS commandments!
12:27 PM
Bob knows that's not from here! No one brought it up here but him, repeatedly. He is the talebearer and slanderer and gossip. He is the one who brought up the allegations here.
AND? Is this his source?!? Give me a break! This is just Gossip slander and talebearing also!
People wake up! and stop drinking the koolaid! It's poison!
I would not be surprised at all to find it's sister and one of the other critics here in another forum under other ids, considering it sounds to me like just what sister just posted here...
Ms. Ian,
Unlike you, I do not keep changing my identity. I only post as "Sister" and the only websites concerned with 3ABN that I am a member of and post at are BSDA and AdventTalk.
You talk as if you think you know who I am. I have been extremely careful in not sharing my identity and covering my tracks. The only indication of my identity would have come from information illegally obtained from BlueHost. Which in turn would have to have been illegally given to Danny Shelton and friends by their attorney, from where it was finally passed on down to your level. The only identifying information would have been my IP address, upon which assumptions have been made as to my identity. So the logical conclusion is that you are receiving illegally information originating from Danny Shelton or a source close to him. What does that say about you? It would make you just another dummy sitting on Danny Shelton lap. Your lips move, but the life force behind the scenes controlling the stage act is Danny and friends.
Ms. Ian, you don't know me, you don't know when or how long I was at 3ABN and you do not know what I saw, heard or anything else. You speak as if you have authority concerning what has, is and will happen with Danny and 3ABN. You were never there, all you know is what has been hand fed to you.
One big difference between your and my situation: I actually do know who you are, where you live and a number of the "identities" that you post as on so many different Adventist websites. I also am aware of the inconsistencies in what you have claimed to know over the time you posted under various identities on BSDA. I am sure others have come to the same conclusion I have reached. You are a pawn used by Danny Shelton to dissimulate false information. I believe the popular term is "Danny clone".
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I wonder if there are any legal ramifications for those who are reckless with private information that was obtained illegally?
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In my opinion only, I would think that there would be legal ramifications, however, that is only my opinion as a lay person and not as a lawyer of any sort.
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That was my thinking, too. But I am not a lawyer, either, and am not attempting to offer legal advice to anyone!!
I think I will alert our friends at Public Citizens about the recent events here - as they ARE attorneys!!
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because if it does, no one would dare accuse her with her past, or any other after that in regards to how they dealt with that, except the accuser of the brethren.
So are you saying that Danny, Walt, Tommy, Ronnie, Garwin, Mollie, Hal, John Lomacang, AppleTree, Ian, Shelley Quinn, and Merlin are not going to accuse Linda Shelton ever again?
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That was my thinking, too. But I am not a lawyer, either, and am not attempting to offer legal advice to anyone!!
I think I will alert our friends at Public Citizens about the recent events here - as they ARE attorneys!!
Do you need Ian's address?
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It looks like that you are essentially admitting that you don't operate with Christian standards when you say that if other people will stop disagreeing with you and showing people how you are wrong then you will stop attackign people.
That's not what I said, and you know it.
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ADMIN HAT ON
I TRUST that you are NOT trying to put words in MY mouth now, Ian. You really don't want to go there!!
ADMIN HAT OFF
As for people calling you - are you listed in the phone book?
That was my thinking, too. But I am not a lawyer, either, and am not attempting to offer legal advice to anyone!!
I think I will alert our friends at Public Citizens about the recent events here - as they ARE attorneys!!
For what? but while you are talking to them, Snoopy, don't forget to tell them what Bob's doing here, and how you think that's just fine...
Bob Pickle asked:
Do you need Ian's address?
Now he's just blatently unscrupulous.
As if he hasn't been doing this by stealth and behind the scenes all along, and I didn't know it... how else did Johann and so many other's already call me???
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Sister,
You couldn't be more wrong. Neither danny nor any one close to him gave me your name or address...
I've done nothing illegal or immoral, nor did I gain your identitiy or address by devious or dishonest means, you just aren't as smart as you think you are. Give some people enough rope and they hang themselves..., but what I know, or don't know is the least of your worries...
Because according to Bob he didn't start all this.. and guess who he's filing motions and affidavits about , and guess who's posts and stories he just submitted in court as attachments to prove that?
You really outa see what he just posted on PACER...
I wonder who you'll blame?
Ian
I would not be surprised at all to find it's sister and one of the other critics here in another forum under other ids, considering it sounds to me like just what sister just posted here...
Ms. Ian,
Unlike you, I do not keep changing my identity. I only post as "Sister" and the only websites concerned with 3ABN that I am a member of and post at are BSDA and AdventTalk.
You talk as if you think you know who I am. I have been extremely careful in not sharing my identity and covering my tracks. The only indication of my identity would have come from information illegally obtained from BlueHost. Which in turn would have to have been illegally given to Danny Shelton and friends by their attorney, from where it was finally passed on down to your level. The only identifying information would have been my IP address, upon which assumptions have been made as to my identity. So the logical conclusion is that you are receiving illegally information originating from Danny Shelton or a source close to him. What does that say about you? It would make you just another dummy sitting on Danny Shelton lap. Your lips move, but the life force behind the scenes controlling the stage act is Danny and friends.
Ms. Ian, you don't know me, you don't know when or how long I was at 3ABN and you do not know what I saw, heard or anything else. You speak as if you have authority concerning what has, is and will happen with Danny and 3ABN. You were never there, all you know is what has been hand fed to you.
One big difference between your and my situation: I actually do know who you are, where you live and a number of the "identities" that you post as on so many different Adventist websites. I also am aware of the inconsistencies in what you have claimed to know over the time you posted under various identities on BSDA. I am sure others have come to the same conclusion I have reached. You are a pawn used by Danny Shelton to dissimulate false information. I believe the popular term is "Danny clone".
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Because according to Bob he didn't start all this.. and guess who he's filing motions and affidavits about , and guess who's posts and stories he just submitted in court as attachments to prove that?
You really outa see what he just posted on PACER...
So, you going to post the docs here for all to see? Or do you only post stuff that helps the other side?
How did you know I filed docs today? Do you get email alerts?
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Now he's just blatently unscrupulous.
How was that unscrupulous? If they want to serve you something they'll need your address. Should I instead wait till Public Citizen subpoenas it out of me?
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Now he's just blatently unscrupulous.
How was that unscrupulous? If they want to serve you something they'll need your address. Should I instead wait till Public Citizen subpoenas it out of me?
If you people are falling for this, it's sad.
Whatever would Public citizen want to subpoena me for, and what do I have to do with any subpoenas to bluehost etc ??
This gets more and more absurd!
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Naw, not absurd at all. But if you don't get it, you'll just have to wait and see.
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Yes, please, if you have it. You can send it to me in a PM.
That was my thinking, too. But I am not a lawyer, either, and am not attempting to offer legal advice to anyone!!
I think I will alert our friends at Public Citizens about the recent events here - as they ARE attorneys!!
Do you need Ian's address?
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Why don't you post the PACER document for us, Ian? I have really come to appreciate that service you so readily provide...
Sister,
You couldn't be more wrong. Neither danny nor any one close to him gave me your name or address...
I've done nothing illegal or immoral, nor did I gain your identitiy or address by devious or dishonest means, you just aren't as smart as you think you are. Give some people enough rope and they hang themselves..., but what I know, or don't know is the least of your worries...
Because according to Bob he didn't start all this.. and guess who he's filing motions and affidavits about , and guess who's posts and stories he just submitted in court as attachments to prove that?
You really outa see what he just posted on PACER...
I wonder who you'll blame?
Ian
I would not be surprised at all to find it's sister and one of the other critics here in another forum under other ids, considering it sounds to me like just what sister just posted here...
Ms. Ian,
Unlike you, I do not keep changing my identity. I only post as "Sister" and the only websites concerned with 3ABN that I am a member of and post at are BSDA and AdventTalk.
You talk as if you think you know who I am. I have been extremely careful in not sharing my identity and covering my tracks. The only indication of my identity would have come from information illegally obtained from BlueHost. Which in turn would have to have been illegally given to Danny Shelton and friends by their attorney, from where it was finally passed on down to your level. The only identifying information would have been my IP address, upon which assumptions have been made as to my identity. So the logical conclusion is that you are receiving illegally information originating from Danny Shelton or a source close to him. What does that say about you? It would make you just another dummy sitting on Danny Shelton lap. Your lips move, but the life force behind the scenes controlling the stage act is Danny and friends.
Ms. Ian, you don't know me, you don't know when or how long I was at 3ABN and you do not know what I saw, heard or anything else. You speak as if you have authority concerning what has, is and will happen with Danny and 3ABN. You were never there, all you know is what has been hand fed to you.
One big difference between your and my situation: I actually do know who you are, where you live and a number of the "identities" that you post as on so many different Adventist websites. I also am aware of the inconsistencies in what you have claimed to know over the time you posted under various identities on BSDA. I am sure others have come to the same conclusion I have reached. You are a pawn used by Danny Shelton to dissimulate false information. I believe the popular term is "Danny clone".
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Boy - one might almost think Ian has an "in" with the 3ABN attorneys...or at least their clients...
So, you going to post the docs here for all to see? Or do you only post stuff that helps the other side?
How did you know I filed docs today? Do you get email alerts?
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But will they represent her if she needs it at some point?
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Why don't you post the PACER document for us, Ian? I have really come to appreciate that service you so readily provide...
Sorry, something must be wrong on the forum? the files are huge, and way too large to post here???... even my swiss miss picture which is much smaller, wouldn't upload as it was too large...
How's this, for an excerpt?
Case 4:07-cv-40098-FDS Document 62 Filed by Bob Pickle 05/15/2008
Acknowledgment by the Plaintiffs of the Multiplicity of Allegations Against Them
Plaintiff Shelton has been the subject of numerous and varied allegations of malfeasance and misconduct, as well as negative internet commentary, long before either Defendant became involved in mid-August 2006. These allegations include wrongful termination, sexual assault, the ignoring or cover up of child molestation allegations, unbiblical divorce, deceit, private inurement, and conflict of interest.
The Plaintiffs through the affidavits of Mollie Steenson and Larry Ewing in the instant case, both dated May 9, 2007, and filed on May 24, 2007, as part of Document #10 of the instant case, assert that negative internet commentary about the Plaintiffs erupted in June or July 2006. See Affidavit of Mollie Steenson at ¶ 4, Affidavit of Larry Ewing at ¶ 3. From April 16 to about
July 2, 2006, an individual using the alias of “Sister” published a series of posts in threads entitled “An Unauthorized History of 3ABN.” See Affidavit of Robert Pickle (hereafter “Pickle Aff.”), Exhibits A–J. This same individual began publishing in these threads Jorgen VanBraun’s 2005 essay, “The Televangelist,” along with her own commentary in May 2006. See Pickle Aff.,
2Ex. E at posts #96, #130, Ex. F at posts #1, #18, #25, #132, Ex. G at post #35, Ex. H at post #1, Ex. K. Some of the more pointed allegations were made by Sister and other individuals in a thread entitled “Who Is It?” in August 2006. See Pickle Aff., Ex. L. These posts and publications put the spotlight on a wide range of allegations against the Plaintiffs....it was the allegations of these and other posts that damaged their reputations and caused a decline in donations.
Sister,
You couldn't be more wrong. Neither danny nor any one close to him gave me your name or address...
I've done nothing illegal or immoral, nor did I gain your identitiy or address by devious or dishonest means, you just aren't as smart as you think you are. Give some people enough rope and they hang themselves..., but what I know, or don't know is the least of your worries...
Because according to Bob he didn't start all this.. and guess who he's filing motions and affidavits about , and guess who's posts and stories he just submitted in court as attachments to prove that?
You really outa see what he just posted on PACER...
I wonder who you'll blame?
Ian
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Naw, the memorandum and affidavit aren't too huge at all. It's the exhibits that are large.
But your quote is correct that the Plaintiffs assert that it was the posts of sister and others that damaged them in 2006. I can't make it out any other way. Gailon and I weren't involved when they said that everything erupted on the internet.
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OK - now I'm really confused. I have seen you post substantially larger PACER documents than just this tiny excerpt you've shared, Ian. Could it be that you have just chosen a tiny paragraph to post in an effort to deceive??
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Naw - I really don't think there is anything wrong with the forum...
Sorry, something must be wrong on the forum? the files are huge, and way too large to post here???... even my swiss miss picture which is much smaller, wouldn't upload as it was too large...
How's this, for an excerpt?
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So, you going to post the docs here for all to see? Or do you only post stuff that helps the other side?
How did you know I filed docs today? Do you get email alerts?
Boy - one might almost think Ian has an "in" with the 3ABN attorneys...or at least their clients...
Or one might *very reasonably* presume, that I simply login on PACER to check things out, and get the facts rather than the spin?
You could do it too Snoopy, but then people could surmise about whether you have an in with 3abn or the attorneys, or insinuate such to others, and threaten you with subpoenas and legal problems which isn't a whole lot of fun... :sad:
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Naw - I really don't think there is anything wrong with the forum...
I'm being serious Snoopy. The text editor doesn't seem to be working for me either, and I can't even click on and insert bold text or a smiley etc..
Why don't you try and see if you can?
Sorry, something must be wrong on the forum? the files are huge, and way too large to post here???... even my swiss miss picture which is much smaller, wouldn't upload as it was too large...
How's this, for an excerpt?
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Naw - thanks, though. I don't see why I should pay for the docs when I know you will bring them here for me!!
By the way, I've already been threatened with a subpoena, in case you hadn't heard. But I have actually been directed to COMPETENT legal counsel!!
Or one might *very reasonably* presume, that I simply login on PACER to check things out, and get the facts rather than the spin?
You could do it too Snoopy, but then people could surmise about whether you have an in with 3abn or the attorneys, or insinuate such to others, and threaten you with subpoenas and legal problems which isn't a whole lot of fun... :sad:
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:oops:
Seems to be working just fine here!!
Naw - I really don't think there is anything wrong with the forum...
I'm being serious Snoopy. The text editor doesn't seem to be working for me either, and I can't even click on and insert bold text or a smiley etc..
Why don't you try and see if you can?
Sorry, something must be wrong on the forum? the files are huge, and way too large to post here???... even my swiss miss picture which is much smaller, wouldn't upload as it was too large...
How's this, for an excerpt?
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Naw, the memorandum and affidavit aren't too huge at all. It's the exhibits that are large.
But your quote is correct that the Plaintiffs assert that it was the posts of sister and others that damaged them in 2006. I can't make it out any other way. Gailon and I weren't involved when they said that everything erupted on the internet.
Bob is putting those words in the Plaintiffs mouths. They did not say or claim the above. He wrote it and that is his assertion. He has tried to make her a part of the lawsuit, and is blaming her.
But I guess that's up to her to deal with, and get upset about or not, not me.
My text editor still isn't working, so, later..
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Ian - are you OK? You just posted an excerpt from the lawsuit saying exactly what Bob just wrote!!! I posted YOUR excerpt again below and bolded it just in case it wasn't clear!!!
Naw, the memorandum and affidavit aren't too huge at all. It's the exhibits that are large.
But your quote is correct that the Plaintiffs assert that it was the posts of sister and others that damaged them in 2006. I can't make it out any other way. Gailon and I weren't involved when they said that everything erupted on the internet.
Bob is putting those words in the Plaintiffs mouths. They did not say or claim the above. He wrote it and that is his assertion. He has tried to make her a part of the lawsuit, and is blaming her.
But I guess that's up to her to deal with, and get upset about or not, not me.
My text editor still isn't working, so, later..
Case 4:07-cv-40098-FDS Document 62 Filed by Bob Pickle 05/15/2008
Acknowledgment by the Plaintiffs of the Multiplicity of Allegations Against Them
Plaintiff Shelton has been the subject of numerous and varied allegations of malfeasance and misconduct, as well as negative internet commentary, long before either Defendant became involved in mid-August 2006. These allegations include wrongful termination, sexual assault, the ignoring or cover up of child molestation allegations, unbiblical divorce, deceit, private inurement, and conflict of interest.
The Plaintiffs through the affidavits of Mollie Steenson and Larry Ewing in the instant case, both dated May 9, 2007, and filed on May 24, 2007, as part of Document #10 of the instant case, assert that negative internet commentary about the Plaintiffs erupted in June or July 2006. See Affidavit of Mollie Steenson at ¶ 4, Affidavit of Larry Ewing at ¶ 3. From April 16 to about
July 2, 2006, an individual using the alias of “Sister” published a series of posts in threads entitled “An Unauthorized History of 3ABN.” See Affidavit of Robert Pickle (hereafter “Pickle Aff.”), Exhibits A–J. This same individual began publishing in these threads Jorgen VanBraun’s 2005 essay, “The Televangelist,” along with her own commentary in May 2006. See Pickle Aff.,
2Ex. E at posts #96, #130, Ex. F at posts #1, #18, #25, #132, Ex. G at post #35, Ex. H at post #1, Ex. K. Some of the more pointed allegations were made by Sister and other individuals in a thread entitled “Who Is It?” in August 2006. See Pickle Aff., Ex. L. These posts and publications put the spotlight on a wide range of allegations against the Plaintiffs....it was the allegations of these and other posts that damaged their reputations and caused a decline in donations.
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Ian,
I read your post again, and I think I see what you are trying to say. But the excerpt by itself is a bit confusing. Is your editor working again so you can post the entire document?
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Acknowledgment by the Plaintiffs of the Multiplicity of Allegations Against Them
Plaintiff Shelton has been the subject of numerous and varied allegations of malfeasance and misconduct, as well as negative Internet commentary, long before either Defendant became involved in mid-August 2006. These allegations include wrongful termination, sexual assault, the ignoring or cover up of child molestation allegations, unbiblical divorce, deceit, private inurement, and conflict of interest.
The Plaintiffs through the affidavits of Mollie Steenson and Larry Ewing in the instant case, both dated May 9, 2007, and filed on May 24, 2007, as part of Document #10 of the instant case, assert that negative Internet commentary about the Plaintiffs erupted in June or July 2006. See Affidavit of Mollie Steenson at ¶ 4, Affidavit of Larry Ewing at ¶ 3. From April 16 to about
July 2, 2006, an individual using the alias of “Sister” published a series of posts in threads entitled “An Unauthorized History of 3ABN.” See Affidavit of Robert Pickle (hereafter “Pickle Aff.”), Exhibits A–J. This same individual began publishing in these threads Jorgen VanBraun’s 2005 essay, “The Televangelist,” along with her own commentary in May 2006. See Pickle Aff.,
2Ex. E at posts #96, #130, Ex. F at posts #1, #18, #25, #132, Ex. G at post #35, Ex. H at post #1, Ex. K. Some of the more pointed allegations were made by Sister and other individuals in a thread entitled “Who Is It?” in August 2006. See Pickle Aff., Ex. L. These posts and publications put the spotlight on a wide range of allegations against the Plaintiffs....it was the allegations of these and other posts that damaged their reputations and caused a decline in donations.
This point has me totally amazed! It is common knowledge that the events about 3ABN were being discussed way back in 2004! This was years before Bob and Gailon came on to the scene! The How can 3ABN/Danny believe they can convince a judge of these blatant lies against Bob and Gailon? It is beyond my thinking! There are so many documented items out there to prove that Gailon and Bob were not involved in any way!
Allegations against Tommy were known way before 2004! I learned about it so long ago that I can't remember how far back that was! It really upset me at the time. Later he was on 3ABN every day. I really felt that the problem was taken care of and Tommy was living a new life in Christ, but I knew he did not follow Bible Truths as his parents did. That worried me. All of the information was being gathered from far and wide. Bob and Gailon began to compile all the stories. Then they reported. However, they are not the ones that started the allegations! Those allegations are around because there are first hand witnesses! The gathered information was not created by Bob or Gailon! Sexual acts usually involve 2 people. If it is illegal sex, there are 2 witnesses. There are a lot of allegations have been made involving Tommy Shelton. You could probably dismiss this if there was only 1 witness that was a past partner with Tommy.
However, this case is a lot of partners with one Tommy Shelton. They all have the same complaint. That, in itself, tends to suggest validity of those allegations. All Bob and Gailon did was report what was. Freedom of press.
I also knew about Danny, Kenneth, Tammy, and Melody having affairs outside of marriage. It appears that allegations have been gathered and where there were 2 or more witnesses of the same allegation, it was reported. Freedom of the press.
The financial difficulties were apparent to employees of 3ABN, and others, not of 3ABN. The information has been gathered and reported on.
IAN:
I am astounded with your attitude toward Bob and Gailon. There are times we do not see ourselves as others see us. This is the case with everyone, because we all have differing backgrounds. When we communicate through written words, it is difficult for us to read that persons character, attitude, or background. Therefore, we form opinions of attitudes that we perceive or believe. You have hurt your image/character and lowered yourself to, "So what!"
God made you the special person that you are. Yet, sometimes you devalue your worth. This bothers me because I know that God does not make junk. Then we get to motive. The things you list as motive are not the 100% truth. You have an agenda just as I do! My agenda involves saving 3ABN. I want to be a solution for the things that need to change. I love 3ABN. I hate the sins within 3ABN. I believe God wants 3ABN to continue, but I also believe God is bringing about changes that have to be made. The choices will be hard.
When I can not figure out what is the truth, I type up a page with a statement with 2 columns. One column for numbered information FOR the statement, and one column for numbered information AGAINST the statement. This puts everything about that subject in one place. I continue to make lists of all the documented allegations for and against each allegation or statement.
I do this is making any type of decision. It is my IF strategy. If I do this; this will happen; below the action I put 2 columns for the good and the bad results. If, is really a cost/benefit analysis. I use it for much more than accounting.
I feel if you did this, you could see with a wider vision instead of the very narrow vision that you have shown lately. I hope you will consider it. Your research skills are very much intact.
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Or one might *very reasonably* presume, that I simply login on PACER to check things out, and get the facts rather than the spin?
Are you saying that that is how you found out about the latest filing, that you logged in and didn't know about it until then?
If so, how often do you log in and look? Does it cost you a lot?
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Bob is putting those words in the Plaintiffs mouths.
I don't think so.
He has tried to make her a part of the lawsuit, and is blaming her.
Not at all.
Larry Ewing and Mollie Steenson stated under oath that negative stuff erupted on the internet around June or July 2006. Gailon and I didn't get involved until mid-August 2006. So what negative stuff are they talking about that they say caused their donations to decline?
Sister doesn't have to be part of the lawsuit. But the posts that were made around the time in question are relevant to the case, including posts by her.
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Ian,
It is so good to see you back. You sure liven up the show.
You remember when you accused me of appearing at the 2004 Examination by Parties that have already surrendered their prepetition claim (remember the stipulation?) and giving away all that information...you know, the very stuff you are now saying I did not produce?
Keep in mind that 3ABN does not have standing but we opted not contest that at the time so they could plainly see we had not hidden a thing...after all, this an asset hunt, not discovery, and here is the rule for your edification:
Rule 2004. Examination
(a) Examination on motion.
On motion of any party in interest, the court may order the examination of any entity.
(b) Scope of examination.
The examination of an entity under this rule or of the debtor under § 343 of the Code may relate only to the acts, conduct, or property or to the liabilities and financial condition of the debtor, or to any matter which may affect the administration of the debtor's estate, or to the debtor's right to a discharge. In a family farmer's debt adjustment case under chapter 12, an individual's debt adjustment case under chapter 13, or a reorganization case under chapter 11 of the Code, other than for the reorganization of a railroad, the examination may also relate to the operation of any business and the desirability of its continuance, the source of any money or property acquired or to be acquired by the debtor for purposes of consummating a plan and the consideration given or offered therefor, and any other matter relevant to the case or to the formulation of a plan.
Well, my lovely lady, I warned you at the time I was more than happy to share my response I gave to them with all of you "just to be open and transparent":
Non-parties request for 2004 Examination
Petitioners Responses to 3ABN Exhibit A:
1.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. However, to the best recollection of the Petitioner, he has no such documents.
2.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. However, to the best recollection of the Petitioner, he has no such documents.
3.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Petitioner has no such documents except the personal joint checking account of the petitioner held jointly with the petitioners wife. Petitioner has no paper work or electronic data from the joint account pre-petition.
4.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. However, petitioner was a independent contractor to New England Merchants, Corp until it’s demise in 2007. Petitioner does not recall being a licensee, officer, director, nor does the petitioner recall having a known beneficial or equity ownership.
5.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. However, petitioner has provided his copy of tax documents for 2005 and 2006 to Counsel and to the Trustee and apparently did not retain a copy. The only documents still in the petitioners possession are copied hereto.
6.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Petitioner has attached copies of 1099’s and a copy of office expense account of the petitioner from January 1, 2005 to the present that are available to the petitioner.
7.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Objection, Petitioners spouse is not a petitioner and the request clearly exceeds the Scope of Examination under FRBP Rule 2004 (b). To the degree it is relevant the spouse suffered a major coronary insult in May 2005 and has not been employed in 2006 or 2007. .
8.See answer to 5 and 6.
9.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Objection- attorney client privilege – atty work product and clearly exceeds the Scope of Examination under FRBP Rule 2004 (b).
10.See production under 6 above. Petitioner was a signatory to a joint account only and has no pre-petition account information or document to the best of his recollection.
11.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Objection, overly broad, but Petitioner will provide all documents relevant to the date of the petition to the recollection of the petitioner. No other documents are known to exist.
12.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Objection, overly broad. Petitioner does not recall any document meeting the non-parties request.
13.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Objection, calls for speculation. Petitioner has no recollection of any information relating to the transfer of domain names, other than the Plaintiffs’ clear instructions that the petitioner did not wish to incur any liability for the renewal of the domain name nor for the ongoing expenses of the save3ABN.com hosting and webmaster costs of operation.
So, As can be seen we produced all that we had to produce!!! And we sat for two hours while they fumed and fussed and discovered I had no hidden assets, including a ledger of accounts back to 2004. ANd after all that time, the fools never asked a single question...not even my name and address for the record. So, now it is time to eject them so we can close and dismiss the BK and get back to a fight worth fighting.
In essence, Ms Ian, you can take it to the bank that you clearly cannot trust the statements of Counsel that has been sued by this Party. The most recent statement was their failure to produce document by May 4 as promised in writing. Thus th3e reason for the motions to compel. And it will not be the last time, either!!!
By the way, any word on the board meeting the past two days? Why don't you inquire and bring us up to date so I don't have to.
Still great to see you back...you provide such an excellent platform to discredit the loyal opposition.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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So Gailon, what ended up happening with the sale of www.save3abn.com to 3ABN? Did they end up paying $5K for an asset that wasn't really up for sale?
Ian,
It is so good to see you back. You sure liven up the show.
You remember when you accused me of appearing at the 2004 Examination by Parties that have already surrendered their prepetition claim (remember the stipulation?) and giving away all that information...you know, the very stuff you are now saying I did not produce?
Keep in mind that 3ABN does not have standing but we opted not contest that at the time so they could plainly see we had not hidden a thing...after all, this an asset hunt, not discovery, and here is the rule for your edification:
Rule 2004. Examination
(a) Examination on motion.
On motion of any party in interest, the court may order the examination of any entity.
(b) Scope of examination.
The examination of an entity under this rule or of the debtor under § 343 of the Code may relate only to the acts, conduct, or property or to the liabilities and financial condition of the debtor, or to any matter which may affect the administration of the debtor's estate, or to the debtor's right to a discharge. In a family farmer's debt adjustment case under chapter 12, an individual's debt adjustment case under chapter 13, or a reorganization case under chapter 11 of the Code, other than for the reorganization of a railroad, the examination may also relate to the operation of any business and the desirability of its continuance, the source of any money or property acquired or to be acquired by the debtor for purposes of consummating a plan and the consideration given or offered therefor, and any other matter relevant to the case or to the formulation of a plan.
Well, my lovely lady, I warned you at the time I was more than happy to share my response I gave to them with all of you "just to be open and transparent":
Non-parties request for 2004 Examination
Petitioners Responses to 3ABN Exhibit A:
1.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. However, to the best recollection of the Petitioner, he has no such documents.
2.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. However, to the best recollection of the Petitioner, he has no such documents.
3.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Petitioner has no such documents except the personal joint checking account of the petitioner held jointly with the petitioners wife. Petitioner has no paper work or electronic data from the joint account pre-petition.
4.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. However, petitioner was a independent contractor to New England Merchants, Corp until it’s demise in 2007. Petitioner does not recall being a licensee, officer, director, nor does the petitioner recall having a known beneficial or equity ownership.
5.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. However, petitioner has provided his copy of tax documents for 2005 and 2006 to Counsel and to the Trustee and apparently did not retain a copy. The only documents still in the petitioners possession are copied hereto.
6.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Petitioner has attached copies of 1099’s and a copy of office expense account of the petitioner from January 1, 2005 to the present that are available to the petitioner.
7.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Objection, Petitioners spouse is not a petitioner and the request clearly exceeds the Scope of Examination under FRBP Rule 2004 (b). To the degree it is relevant the spouse suffered a major coronary insult in May 2005 and has not been employed in 2006 or 2007. .
8.See answer to 5 and 6.
9.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Objection- attorney client privilege – atty work product and clearly exceeds the Scope of Examination under FRBP Rule 2004 (b).
10.See production under 6 above. Petitioner was a signatory to a joint account only and has no pre-petition account information or document to the best of his recollection.
11.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Objection, overly broad, but Petitioner will provide all documents relevant to the date of the petition to the recollection of the petitioner. No other documents are known to exist.
12.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Objection, overly broad. Petitioner does not recall any document meeting the non-parties request.
13.Objection, Petitioner reserves the right to challenge whether the Examiner is a party in interest pursuant to Rule 2004. Objection, calls for speculation. Petitioner has no recollection of any information relating to the transfer of domain names, other than the Plaintiffs’ clear instructions that the petitioner did not wish to incur any liability for the renewal of the domain name nor for the ongoing expenses of the save3ABN.com hosting and webmaster costs of operation.
So, As can be seen we produced all that we had to produce!!! And we sat for two hours while they fumed and fussed and discovered I had no hidden assets, including a ledger of accounts back to 2004. ANd after all that time, the fools never asked a single question...not even my name and address for the record. So, now it is time to eject them so we can close and dismiss the BK and get back to a fight worth fighting.
In essence, Ms Ian, you can take it to the bank that you clearly cannot trust the statements of Counsel that has been sued by this Party. The most recent statement was their failure to produce document by May 4 as promised in writing. Thus th3e reason for the motions to compel. And it will not be the last time, either!!!
By the way, any word on the board meeting the past two days? Why don't you inquire and bring us up to date so I don't have to.
Still great to see you back...you provide such an excellent platform to discredit the loyal opposition.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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YUP, they really did and now have to divy it out to all those blood sucking lawyers...nothing for creditors. Ain't that a surpise?
Gailon Arthur Joy
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YUP, they really did and now have to divy it out to all those blood sucking lawyers...nothing for creditors. Ain't that a surpise?
Gailon Arthur Joy
:ROFL: :thumbsup: :puppykisses:
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Is it just me or has it gotten really quiet since this exchange of posts??
Well, thanks to Ian's "excerpt" I just finished reading the "Who is it?" thread at BSDA - one I had never seen before. That was worse than a soap opera. Sounds to me like 3ABN needs to hire its own marraige and family therapist. Sick.
Yes, please, if you have it. You can send it to me in a PM.
That was my thinking, too. But I am not a lawyer, either, and am not attempting to offer legal advice to anyone!!
I think I will alert our friends at Public Citizens about the recent events here - as they ARE attorneys!!
Do you need Ian's address?
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Thank you!! I sent it on to my attorney.
Yes, please, if you have it. You can send it to me in a PM.
That was my thinking, too. But I am not a lawyer, either, and am not attempting to offer legal advice to anyone!!
I think I will alert our friends at Public Citizens about the recent events here - as they ARE attorneys!!
Do you need Ian's address?
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Is it just me or has it gotten really quiet since this exchange of posts??
I thought it must just be me, but no... I see others have drawn the same conclusion also.
That was my thinking, too. But I am not a lawyer, either, and am not attempting to offer legal advice to anyone!!
I think I will alert our friends at Public Citizens about the recent events here - as they ARE attorneys!!
They may well be interested.
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Is it just me or has it gotten really quiet since this exchange of posts??
Well, thanks to Ian's "excerpt" I just finished reading the "Who is it?" thread at BSDA - one I had never seen before. That was worse than a soap opera. Sounds to me like 3ABN needs to hire its own marraige and family therapist. Sick.
Personally, some of it came across as being too graphic to me. But I found it interesting that that very thread was what got Gailon involved. Tommy's church in Virgina, their contact info was listed in that thread, and that led to the discovery of the 2003 Dryden letter which led to Gailon getting involved.
Can you see why Jerrie Hayes would want all this stuff declared to be irrelevant to the case?
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I agree, Bob. There was an awful lot of graphic detail - makes my heart ache for those who were hurt by all the infidelities.
Sure can see why they wouldn't want that info brought out in court. It's just plain ugly.
Personally, some of it came across as being too graphic to me. But I found it interesting that that very thread was what got Gailon involved. Tommy's church in Virgina, their contact info was listed in that thread, and that led to the discovery of the 2003 Dryden letter which led to Gailon getting involved.
Can you see why Jerrie Hayes would want all this stuff declared to be irrelevant to the case?
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Do you need Ian's address?
Careful Friends. You know how 'touchy' Ian is about people knowing who she is, where she lives etc, coz of all those phone calls and visits to her family. She might be upset about letters too, you know! Don't want to upset the apple cart, you know. :oops:
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Is it just me or has it gotten really quiet since this exchange of posts??
Well, thanks to Ian's "excerpt" I just finished reading the "Who is it?" thread at BSDA - one I had never seen before. That was worse than a soap opera. Sounds to me like 3ABN needs to hire its own marraige and family therapist. Sick.
:ROFL: Seems like Ian has gone into hiding since Gailon posted the information. No doubt Ms Ian is off trying to scratch up a nasty answer, but digging for truth takes quite a bit of doing. She misses that and only finds the garbage.
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Is it just me or has it gotten really quiet since this exchange of posts??
Well, thanks to Ian's "excerpt" I just finished reading the "Who is it?" thread at BSDA - one I had never seen before. That was worse than a soap opera. Sounds to me like 3ABN needs to hire its own marraige and family therapist. Sick.
Funny that people are thinking I ran away or got quiet because of GJ's post when I said my text editor wasn't working and said later to ya all before then...
Interesting thing about that trashy thread that made you sick. It was closed on BSDA. Why?
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=10304&view=findpost&p=147527
okay, I have been following this thread, wondering where it would lead, what info would come forth, etc... and I am really not feeling it at the moment.... as I stated earlier having the issues you struggle with or the mistakes you have made exposed in public would not be something you looked forward to..... this thread is closed as it does not deal with the issues between danny and linda or danny's running of 3abn.....
Quite a contrast between what is considered relevant and allowed here. Here any names the accusers of 3abn throw out seem to be fair game for trashing and insults and vile gossip. No one's off limits. If it's a family member of anyone working , or associated with 3abn, that has nothing to do with the issuest? all the better. Dig up every single lie and peice of dirt and history you can find and condemn vilify them all, guilt by association and smear tactics, no proof required. The multitude just opens their mouths and damns them all. And it's all good. Just reporting the facts , right?
I'll tell you what it really is, it is a downright shame and sin.
No golden rule, no compassion, and no respect for the privacy of these people who are not public figures.
The public has the right to know all this? For what purpose? except to trash, and hurt people and families related to any at 3abn.
The end justifies the means -- to save 3abn?
Is this how Christ went about saving the lost? No. Who would have wanted to be saved or listen to him had he done such?
What Christian in their right mind would buy this, as love and caring and concern?
None that I know.
Yes, please, if you have it. You can send it to me in a PM.
That was my thinking, too. But I am not a lawyer, either, and am not attempting to offer legal advice to anyone!!
I think I will alert our friends at Public Citizens about the recent events here - as they ARE attorneys!!
Do you need Ian's address?
[/quote]
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Might I respectfully point out, Ian, that I had never even SEEN that thread until you posted your "excerpt" here at AT that made reference to it. Thus, the Sheltons have YOU to thank for bringing it to our attention!!!
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Might I respectfully point out, Ian, that I had never even SEEN that thread until you posted your "excerpt" here at AT that made reference to it. Thus, the Sheltons have YOU to thank for bringing it to our attention!!!
And are you going to pretend you didn't see all the trash Pickle and Sister were posting yesterday, or that it's any different?
If this forum didn't allow it and condone it, it wouldn't still be here, right?
Honestly If I owned this forum I wouldn't want to be liable for all this or have people thinking this is what I defined as Christian discussion among true believers, but I guess the owner and moderators here disagree, and that rightfully is your choice and right.
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If anybody can show that what is being posted isn't being respectfully posted to the satisfaction of the Admin Team here, then action will be taken accordingly.
If anybody can also show that what is being posted isn't being factually posted to the satisfaction of the Admin Team here, then action will be taken accordingly on that as well.
In other words, if you report a post, be specific in the reason given for reporting that post.
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Yes, please, if you have it. You can send it to me in a PM.
Hey Snoopy,
I'd rather deal with public citizen and your attorney straight out and upfront.
In light of all the posts and threats here, I don't choose to wait and see what interest Public citizen has in me, or what I could possibly have done to violate anyones rights here, as Pickle said. They don't need to subpoena me, as is being claimed here that they will.
I'm planning on writing to them myself, and including all the posts here, related to all this and the pms about how my privacy and that of others has been violated rather than vice versa. As Ozzie said I'm a bit touchy when it comes to my family and my rights and don't appreciate threats on the phone or otherwise, and in answer to your earlier question, NO my number and address are not publicly listed...
So if you pm me your attorney address and phone number, I'll just go ahead and forward all that I am going to send to Public citizen to him or her, and that might make it easier for all concerned. Ok?
Thanks,
Ian
That was my thinking, too. But I am not a lawyer, either, and am not attempting to offer legal advice to anyone!!
I think I will alert our friends at Public Citizens about the recent events here - as they ARE attorneys!!
Do you need Ian's address?
[/quote]
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No one's off limits. If it's a family member of anyone working , or associated with 3abn, that has nothing to do with the issuest?
I believe I already pointed out that how Danny has handled other allegations of immorality is a definite issue.
The end justifies the means -- to save 3abn?
Remember, Danny has dared us to prove in court that he has committed improprieties while running 3ABN. And allowing his sister to continue to work for 3ABN after she was accused of having an incestuous affair, while Linda later was dumped for talking too long on the telephone, that sounds like a possible impropriety to me.
If he didn't want us to defend ourselves, he shouldn't have sued us.
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So if you pm me your attorney address and phone number, I'll just go ahead and forward all that I am going to send to Public citizen to him or her, and that might make it easier for all concerned. Ok?
Since I am pro se, will you do the same for me? I can PM you to tell you what I'm looking for.
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Naw. I think I'll just wait to see what happens. Perhaps you should have thought of the consequences before you and your buddies tried to out other people who didn't want to be identified.
Yes, please, if you have it. You can send it to me in a PM.
Hey Snoopy,
I'd rather deal with public citizen and your attorney straight out and upfront.
In light of all the posts and threats here, I don't choose to wait and see what interest Public citizen has in me, or what I could possibly have done to violate anyones rights here, as Pickle said. They don't need to subpoena me, as is being claimed here that they will.
I'm planning on writing to them myself, and including all the posts here, related to all this and the pms about how my privacy and that of others has been violated rather than vice versa. As Ozzie said I'm a bit touchy when it comes to my family and my rights and don't appreciate threats on the phone or otherwise, and in answer to your earlier question, NO my number and address are not publicly listed...
So if you pm me your attorney address and phone number, I'll just go ahead and forward all that I am going to send to Public citizen to him or her, and that might make it easier for all concerned. Ok?
Thanks,
Ian
That was my thinking, too. But I am not a lawyer, either, and am not attempting to offer legal advice to anyone!!
I think I will alert our friends at Public Citizens about the recent events here - as they ARE attorneys!!
Do you need Ian's address?
[/quote]
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No one's off limits. If it's a family member of anyone working , or associated with 3abn, that has nothing to do with the issuest?
I believe I already pointed out that how Danny has handled other allegations of immorality is a definite issue.
The end justifies the means -- to save 3abn?
Remember, Danny has dared us to prove in court that he has committed improprieties while running 3ABN. And allowing his sister to continue to work for 3ABN after she was accused of having an incestuous affair, while Linda later was dumped for talking too long on the telephone, that sounds like a possible impropriety to me.
If he didn't want us to defend ourselves, he shouldn't have sued us.
Yes, according to Pickle it's Danny's fault. 3ABN filed a pre-emptive lawsuit, and and then Pickle and Joy got to work digging up the dirt to justify that.
This also sounds like Bob's defense strategy to me:
when you are being sued for defamation of character the best way to defend yourself is to defame and publish even more unproven allegations and hearsay, and gossip and surmisings, and keep dragging in and attacking even more and more people and just completely immerse yourself in the sewage. :hamster:
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Naw. I think I'll just wait to see what happens. Perhaps you should have thought of the consequences before you and your buddies tried to out other people who didn't want to be identified.
Excuse me? I suggest in the future you don't try to intimidate or threaten me with your lawyer and subpoenas etc , for it only makes you appear very silly when you can't back it up.
There are no consequences. I certainly did not try to out anyone, except in your mind. There are ways I could publish an entire list of your friends identities which have nothing to do with posting on this forum, if I wanted to do that.. I don't.
The truth is you removed names due to paranoia which were actually made in reference to Bob's claim that FHB was a public persona due to involving himself in these 3abn discussions, all I did was ask by the same token are these people public figures also? Why? as a graphic illustration of how the golden rule should apply and how the same rules should apply equally to all.
I did not attach those names to any poster or member here, or even indicate that they were. It was you who told all that when you freaked out and removed them, and then threatened me with being banned.
But at the same time you justified my names and FHB's names being bandied about and published to all... and even private info being posted here, and look at how many other names are being thrown around by Bob, are you concerned about any of those people? apparently not!
And you not only allowed Bob to hand out my name address and phone number to others, which is not public, without a word of warning or reproach,but you yourself asked him to send it to you. You act like it's my fault he has given my private number to others and I was threatened, and come on here suggesting people just looked it up... You knew better because I pmd Daryl and as you said you know all about my reports.
You may have lots of education but you show very little signs of wisdom..
I was asked to start a forum elsewhere just last night, specifically due to your moderating here, it is starting to sound like a very good idea...
Ian
Yes, please, if you have it. You can send it to me in a PM.
Hey Snoopy,
I'd rather deal with public citizen and your attorney straight out and upfront.
In light of all the posts and threats here, I don't choose to wait and see what interest Public citizen has in me, or what I could possibly have done to violate anyones rights here, as Pickle said. They don't need to subpoena me, as is being claimed here that they will.
I'm planning on writing to them myself, and including all the posts here, related to all this and the pms about how my privacy and that of others has been violated rather than vice versa. As Ozzie said I'm a bit touchy when it comes to my family and my rights and don't appreciate threats on the phone or otherwise, and in answer to your earlier question, NO my number and address are not publicly listed...
So if you pm me your attorney address and phone number, I'll just go ahead and forward all that I am going to send to Public citizen to him or her, and that might make it easier for all concerned. Ok?
Thanks,
Ian
That was my thinking, too. But I am not a lawyer, either, and am not attempting to offer legal advice to anyone!!
I think I will alert our friends at Public Citizens about the recent events here - as they ARE attorneys!!
Do you need Ian's address?
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WOW! You sound upset. I am starting to think you don't like me. :'(
I'm just curious, Ian...how would you know anything about my level of education??
And BTW...when can we watch for your new forum??
Snoopy
Excuse me? I suggest in the future you don't try to intimidate or threaten me with your lawyer and subpoenas etc , for it only makes you appear very silly when you can't back it up.
There are no consequences. I certainly did not try to out anyone, except in your mind. There are ways I could publish an entire list of your friends identities which have nothing to do with posting on this forum, if I wanted to do that.. I don't.
The truth is you removed names due to paranoia which were actually made in reference to Bob's claim that FHB was a public persona due to involving himself in these 3abn discussions, all I did was ask by the same token are these people public figures also? Why? as a graphic illustration of how the golden rule should apply and how the same rules should apply equally to all.
I did not attach those names to any poster or member here, or even indicate that they were. It was you who told all that when you freaked out and removed them, and then threatened me with being banned.
But at the same time you justified my names and FHB's names being bandied about and published to all... and even private info being posted here, and look at how many other names are being thrown around by Bob, are you concerned about any of those people? apparently not!
And you not only allowed Bob to hand out my name address and phone number to others, which is not public, without a word of warning or reproach,but you yourself asked him to send it to you. You act like it's my fault he has given my private number to others and I was threatened, and come on here suggesting people just looked it up... You knew better because I pmd Daryl and as you said you know all about my reports.
You may have lots of education but you show very little signs of wisdom..
I was asked to start a forum elsewhere just last night, specifically due to your moderating here, it is starting to sound like a very good idea...
Ian
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And you not only allowed Bob to hand out my name address and phone number to others, which is not public, ....
Hate to tell you this, but it is public.
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This also sounds like Bob's defense strategy to me:
Got another defense strategy you'd recommend? I thought that proving that the lawsuit was baseless would work pretty good, but you may think you have a better plan.
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ADMIN HAT ON!
This sparring back and forth is not condusive to good and respectful communication, therefore, please cease and desist.
ADMIN HAT OFF!
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Something alike was discussed on the Yahoo! Answers last week, i can share a link if you want some
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Something alike was discussed on the Yahoo! Answers last week, i can share a link if you want some
Sure, go ahead and share it.
And you not only allowed Bob to hand out my name address and phone number to others, which is not public, ....
Hate to tell you this, but it is public.
I forgot totally about this old interchange, which shows that Cindy was informed over two years ago that her address and phone number were public, which goes along with the recent exchange about her address and phone number being listed, not unlisted.