Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Bob Pickle on July 26, 2010, 05:49:47 AM
-
I thought I'd start a special thread where Danny Shelton and other Sheltons (and 3ABN employees) can come and express support for Tommy's victims.
One complaint that victims of abuse from Catholic priests have had is that many bishops have not shown enough support, that they've instead tried to cover it all up.
Long ago Danny allegedly started 3ABN in order to spread the 3 angels' messages, and to counteract the counterfeit. Therefore, given what he has professed over the years, it would be expected that Danny would be at the forefront of any opportunity to demonstrate the stark contrast between himself and a Roman Catholic bishop.
Thus, one would expect that it would not take Danny too long to come to this thread and express his support for Tommy's victims, and his sorrow that they were victimized by Tommy.
So post away, Danny.
-
Pickle, give up the arrogance, and repent. The current case against T.S. has nothing to do with 3abn. You know they haven't been posting up till now, and I am positive they won't start now at your bidding, and they certainly won't do so just to stroke your ego and bow to you. They are running a ministry and have their marching orders, so that's their focus. What is yours, and what's it all about?
I thought I'd start a special thread where Danny Shelton and other Sheltons (and 3ABN employees) can come and express support for Tommy's victims.
One complaint that victims of abuse from Catholic priests have had is that many bishops have not shown enough support, that they've instead tried to cover it all up.
Long ago Danny allegedly started 3ABN in order to spread the 3 angels' messages, and to counteract the counterfeit. Therefore, given what he has professed over the years, it would be expected that Danny would be at the forefront of any opportunity to demonstrate the stark contrast between himself and a Roman Catholic bishop.
Thus, one would expect that it would not take Danny too long to come to this thread and express his support for Tommy's victims, and his sorrow that they were victimized by Tommy.
So post away, Danny.
-
The current case against T.S. has nothing to do with 3abn.
False. The current case against pedophile Tommy Shelton involves a victim's accusations which Glenn Dryden announced toward the end of 2006. I published that announcement, and Danny Shelton threatened to sue. When Danny did sue, 3ABN joined Danny as a co-plaintiff.
You know they haven't been posting up till now ....
The evidence is that Sheltons and/or 3ABN employees have posted prior to now.
They are running a ministry and have their marching orders, so that's their focus.
Their alleged marching orders are "mending broken people." If that slogan is not a sham, then they will come here and post in support of the victims of Tommy Shelton.
-
Williams,
what are you trying to do on here, the other thread and now!!!??? Your tactics are butter up, back off and then punch. This is disgusting all the while using your Jesus talk. You don't fool me one bit because if you were serious to Alex your lingo would be a whole lot different and so would your character.
-
The current case against T.S. has nothing to do with 3abn.
False. The current case against pedophile Tommy Shelton involves a victim's accusations which Glenn Dryden announced toward the end of 2006. I published that announcement, and Danny Shelton threatened to sue. When Danny did sue, 3ABN joined Danny as a co-plaintiff.
Stop lying. Glenn Dryden wrote 3abn in 2003, and they replied to him then. The recordings you keep citing from Danny are from 2003. You butted in started dialoging with Dryden and tried to be all big and bad and raise a ruckus against 3abn and DS in late 2006 in response to the Linda stuff on the internet. NOTHING about the current case
was known or publicized.. The News papers plainly say 2 alleged victims came forward in 2008, and the lawsuit against you was already dismissed by then. You even tried to file the recent case in court as evidence, and were denied..
You have called and interviewed anyone and everyone trying to find something or anything against Tommy which you could lay at DS or 3abn's feet, due to his employment there, and have nothing. You don't have one single allegation, not one single claim that 3abn caused or condoned or contributed to any molestation or any abuse by Tommy due to neglect or not acting as they should as you keep claiming. You in fact have zero victims or alleged victims, zero allegations which you can tie to 3abn and use against them.
EVEN IF 100% of your allegations were true (IF!!!!) then they all occurred within the Church of God while TS was a Pastor there. Not just in one Church of God, but in two different ones, and yet you have NEVER called them to account, NEVER accused nor condemned them, NEVER harassed them, NEVER said they were liable, NEVER said even one word against them.
All you care about is condemning 3ABN and DS even though no child molestation or rape happened in relation to their employment of T.S. There are zero allegations of child molestation under their watch, no complaints. There is not one alleged child molestation victim within the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. Not one single child or parent who claims their child was sexually molested by Tommy Shelton on any SDA grounds or properties or due to his employment at 3ABN, or even during his employment, not one single claim, statement or report that they covered up for TS, and endangered or caused their child to be sexually molested. NOT A ONE.
You have searched high and low.We all know that Bob, so does 3ABN (those you contact keep saying you contacted them and have questioned them) but you have found nothing for 15 years, and nothing even before that in relation to 3abn or the Adventist Church! Nothing, Nada, Zip, Zilch.
JUST STOP.
You are a pathetic little accuser with no ground to stand on, and your agenda is clear.
You know they haven't been posting up till now ....
The evidence is that Sheltons and/or 3ABN employees have posted prior to now.
liar.. liar...
They are running a ministry and have their marching orders, so that's their focus.
Their alleged marching orders are "mending broken people." If that slogan is not a sham, then they will come here and post in support of the victims of Tommy Shelton.
Despite your disagreement, condemnations and ultimatems they have a goal, they have a focus and they have a slogan apart from you. You avoided and deleted my question:
They are running a ministry and have their marching orders, so that's their focus. What is yours, and what's it all about?
-
You are incorrect. There are allegations of TS committing sexual acts against young males on 3ABN grounds.
-
Stop lying.
I'm not lying.
You butted in started dialoging with Dryden and tried to be all big and bad and raise a ruckus against 3abn and DS in late 2006 in response to the Linda stuff on the internet.
Correction: I suggested to a friend that he contact the Church of God in Virginia in August 2006 due to Tommy stuff on the internet, not Linda stuff.
NOTHING about the current case was known or publicized. The News papers plainly say 2 alleged victims came forward in 2008, and the lawsuit against you was already dismissed by then.
Correction: Dryden made his announcement on December 3, 2006. See http://www.save-3abn.com/tommy-shelton-new-12-2006-va-allegations.htm (http://www.save-3abn.com/tommy-shelton-new-12-2006-va-allegations.htm) where Dryden says:
Three instances of misconduct on the part of Tommy Shelton while he served as pastor at the Community Church of God, Dunn Loring, Virginia, have been reported to me in the brief time I have served as pastor of this congregation.
The most egregious of these instances involved a male who was a minor at the time.
The one who was a minor went to the authorities. The case against us was dismissed on October 30, 2008. What evidence do you have that both Alex and the fellow Dryden referred to went to the authorities after October 30?
You even tried to file the recent case in court as evidence, and were denied.
False again. We were denied the opportunity to add two exhibits after the briefing schedule was over. We were never denied the right to file those exhibits as evidence at all.
You have called and interviewed anyone and everyone trying to find something or anything against Tommy which you could lay at DS or 3abn's feet, due to his employment there, and have nothing.
Not so. I have Walt Thompson on record as saying that he never contacted any of Tommy's alleged victims when invited to do so. That is misconduct and irresponsibility on the part of Walt Thompson as 3ABN Board chairman, in my opinion.
Additionally, Danny used company time and a company phone to leave veiled threats on Dryden's answering machine in 2003.
You don't have one single allegation, not one single claim that 3abn caused or condoned or contributed to any molestation or any abuse by Tommy due to neglect or not acting as they should as you keep claiming. You in fact have zero victims or alleged victims, zero allegations which you can tie to 3abn and use against them.
Please do not twist the issues into straw men of your own choosing.
Some of Tommy's alleged molestation or misconduct took place on Danny's or 3ABN's premises, according to the victims themselves.
Danny and 3ABN sued me in retaliation for my blowing the whistle on Danny's cover up of Tommy's pedophilia.
Walt never did what needed to be done to shield 3ABN and the Illinois Conference from liability.
That's the main points I have raised, and from what I can tell, it's the truth, whether you like it or not.
EVEN IF 100% of your allegations were true (IF!!!!) then they all occurred within the Church of God while TS was a Pastor there. Not just in one Church of God, but in two different ones, and yet you have NEVER called them to account, NEVER accused nor condemned them, NEVER harassed them, NEVER said they were liable, NEVER said even one word against them.
First of all, Danny's house and 3ABN's campus and the motel in Ohio are not within a Church of God, so you are incorrect.
Second, I have yet to see where the Church of God threatened anyone or lied to cover it all up or sued me for blowing the whistle.
Third, my concern was the negative impact Danny Shelton's perversity might have on the reputation and finances of my church. I am not a member of the Church of God.
All you care about is condemning 3ABN and DS even though no child molestation or rape happened in relation to their employment of T.S.
And how would you know? Danny and 3ABN knowingly hired a sexual predator to replace Linda, the alleged adulteress. What do sexual predators do? They prey.
How would you know whether or not Tommy continued to prey on children and young men after returning to 3ABN? Did he deny it and you've decided to believe him? On what basis?
But you forget that around 1991 Tommy did go after one of his own relatives while, I believe, both he and that relative were employed by 3ABN.
But regardless of whether any additional victims have surfaced, a supporting ministry must never knowingly hire a sexual predator, give him access to children, fail to tell the principal of the nearby church school, and fail to tell the church pastor.
You know they haven't been posting up till now ....
The evidence is that Sheltons and/or 3ABN employees have posted prior to now.
liar.. liar...
It isn't a lie. I can prove that Ronnie Shelton or his wife has posted.
They are running a ministry and have their marching orders, so that's their focus.
Their alleged marching orders are "mending broken people." If that slogan is not a sham, then they will come here and post in support of the victims of Tommy Shelton.
Despite your disagreement, condemnations and ultimatems they have a goal, they have a focus and they have a slogan apart from you. You avoided and deleted my question:
You ignored my point. Acknowledge that if their slogan is not a sham, then they will come here and post in support of the victims of Tommy Shelton. It's all about mending broken people.
But it is amazing that if you try to encourage people who have been broken by a Shelton, Shelton's cronies will do their best to break you.
-
False. The current case against pedophile Tommy Shelton involves a victim's accusations which Glenn Dryden announced toward the end of 2006. I published that announcement, and Danny Shelton threatened to sue. When Danny did sue, 3ABN joined Danny as a co-plaintiff.
So help me understand what you are talking about, Bob. ARe you saying that the information you posted regarding those victims was part of the law suit?
Pat, I have to agree with Bob.....to a point......the fact that TS was allowed to work at 3ABN, with children, is inexcusable. Even though there were no charges made by no law enforcement authorities, the family, at least DS knew better, and should not have taken upon himself to make the decision to exposed those children WITHOUT the knowledge of their parents. That was wrong. Now beyond that, I can't go as far as Bob, well at least he answers my question. For now it seems to be more to add to the stack os "evidence"(and in some cases that is a very loose term), against DS.
That being said,....Come on now Bob!!! This is really ridiculous. I have got to go with Pat about the entire premise of this thread. You know they are nto going to post here if they are real busy proclaiming TS innocence even after he admits his guilt.
Sombody has to decide to take th high road here people!!!
You know they haven't been posting up till now ....
The evidence is that Sheltons and/or 3ABN employees have posted prior to now.
They are running a ministry and have their marching orders, so that's their focus.
Their alleged marching orders are "mending broken people." If that slogan is not a sham, then they will come here and post in support of the victims of Tommy Shelton.
-
So help me understand what you are talking about, Bob. ARe you saying that the information you posted regarding those victims was part of the law suit?
You have Alex and another guy who were molested by Tommy in Virginia. I'm saying that Danny Shelton retaliated against me for blowing the whistle on Tommy molesting the other guy, and that that retaliation included the lawsuit.
In May 2007 Mollie Steenson and Larry Ewing filed affidavits in which they discussed a decline in donations in 2006 that was supposed to have something to do with the lawsuit. There was particularly a decline, it was claimed, in December 2006. Save3ABN.com wasn't started until 2007. If anything, our reporting on the Tommy scandal at the end of 2006 is what caused the decline in donations, if there really was a decline, and if we caused that decline.
That being said,....Come on now Bob!!! This is really ridiculous. I have got to go with Pat about the entire premise of this thread. You know they are nto going to post here if they are real busy proclaiming TS innocence even after he admits his guilt.
Sombody has to decide to take th high road here people!!!
It is always possible that a Shelton, like the prodigal son, might come to his or her senses and take the high road and publicly express their support of Tommy's victims and their sorrow for the pain Tommy caused. I am not going to assume that they will all harden their hearts and be lost. Wherever possible we must think the best.
I started this thread to give Danny et. al. an opportunity to do the right thing, which is all the more important given the ugly and uncalled for attacks that have been made here against admitted pedophile Tommy Shelton's victims. It's an excellent opportunity for Danny to do damage control by taking a stand against the abuse that has been showered down upon Tommy's victims.
But given the fact that there is some evidence that Danny has recently sought to retaliate against the victims, it would seem like a miracle if he did come here.
But certainly Jim Gilley can come here and post his support. Why not? He told me himself that he would deal with future problems. And the public smears the Danny clones have made against Tommy victims falls into the category of a future problem, future to when Jim came on board.
-
Bob you are attempting to do work that does not belong to you. Conviction and repentence are the work of the Holy Spirit. Let God work with every one else on their issues, and yours. Let this go. From someone who has no dog in this fight an dlike veryone here, the arrogance and sif righteousness is not lost on quite a few of us.
-
When it comes to pastors molesting kids, everyone has a dog in the fight, including you. When it come to showing support for those victims and protecting them from further victimization by people like PW and Sam who have savagely attacked Tommy's victims, everyone has a dog in the fight including you. The dog we all have in this fight has nothing to do with Christianity, it has everything to do with common human decency.
Bob you are attempting to do work that does not belong to you. Conviction and repentence are the work of the Holy Spirit. Let God work with every one else on their issues, and yours. Let this go. From someone who has no dog in this fight an dlike veryone here, the arrogance and sif righteousness is not lost on quite a few of us.
-
Di
Stop and think a moment please, Conviction and repentance can only be done when there is conscience so the Holy Spirit can do the work that something has been done wrong here. The proof there is no conscience is that the claim of innocence is proclaimed by the sympathizers of evil deeds denied or rejected facts, now how can your scenario work??? Have you even or ever read what SP says about straddling the fence side of things. No Di, those are minds of no return and then what is left is the side of good and evil. What will you do or react when you have to make choice of one or the other and soon then you think that time comes. This limbo stuff just don't get it and neither will it enter heaven straddling fence. Who is able to stand when even the church can't. An individual that can discern good from evil. Without that discernment there is no chance. One good reason you come up with your theories is because you really have not been able to spend the time understanding where all the posters are coming from and mostly believing in your reasoning or justification of the ones that do the Jesus talk and that is where you lean to. Believe me they are just using it. It is a hoax and do what ever it takes. Even if Alex was not a victim or if you believed what all they are saying, then what will you think with the rest of the victims? I believe they are trying to get any off word they can to use against him just in case it really does end up a trial...of some kind. It's just their play in their gaming. They just don't get it. The deed has transpired, an admissions has been done and yet they are still yakking their same junk...but they are looking for an off word. The best thing that Alex can do is not answer them one word. and then they can use nothing.
changed a j to y
-
I am not saying that you cannot determine good from evil. I am saying that it is not Bob's place to start a thread to call anyone to redemption or repentence. This apparently is not going to happen, as they are maintaining TS innocence. They are not going to apologize or show support to the victims as long as they maintain there are no victims. They still are talking about Duane being a consenting adult. We have at least5 threads telling them how wrong they are, while they still maintain that innocence. It is wrong there are no if, and or buts about it. That is also why the supporters are sticking to their guns on this. They even know the acts TS committed are atrocioius. So much so, they live in denial of him committing such acts. So what is the point of providing a place for them to do something they ahve no intention of doing, but to make one more dig into DS.
Reaching the conscience, and encouarging repentance is the work of the Holy Spirit, mainly because only God knows the mind/motives. We can't reach them becasue we can only judge their actions, not their hearts. "Man looks on the outward appearance,but the Lord looks on the heart". I know that you all don't want to hear this, but TS did not becomeas abuser all by himself, because he is some kind of sick monster. Odds are that he himself was also molested as a child, a victim himself. Hurting people, hurt others. The abused can often abuse others, if they don't get the help they need.
Thank you George.
-
When it comes to pastors molesting kids, everyone has a dog in the fight, including you. When it come to showing support for those victims and protecting them from further victimization by people like PW and Sam who have savagely attacked Tommy's victims, everyone has a dog in the fight including you. The dog we all have in this fight has nothing to do with Christianity, it has everything to do with common human decency.
Bob you are attempting to do work that does not belong to you. Conviction and repentence are the work of the Holy Spirit. Let God work with every one else on their issues, and yours. Let this go. From someone who has no dog in this fight an dlike veryone here, the arrogance and sif righteousness is not lost on quite a few of us.
:goodpost:
I agree with George that we all have a dog in this fight. Then there are some who feel it their responsibility to shoot at our dogs. Why?
-
I am not saying that you cannot determine good from evil. I am saying that it is not Bob's place to start a thread to call anyone to redemption or repentence. This apparently is not going to happen, as they are maintaining TS innocence. They are not going to apologize or show support to the victims as long as they maintain there are no victims. They still are talking about Duane being a consenting adult. We have at least5 threads telling them how wrong they are, while they still maintain that innocence. It is wrong there are no if, and or buts about it. That is also why the supporters are sticking to their guns on this. They even know the acts TS committed are atrocioius. So much so, they live in denial of him committing such acts. So what is the point of providing a place for them to do something they ahve no intention of doing, but to make one more dig into DS.
Reaching the conscience, and encouarging repentance is the work of the Holy Spirit, mainly because only God knows the mind/motives. We can't reach them becasue we can only judge their actions, not their hearts. "Man looks on the outward appearance,but the Lord looks on the heart". I know that you all don't want to hear this, but TS did not becomeas abuser all by himself, because he is some kind of sick monster. Odds are that he himself was also molested as a child, a victim himself. Hurting people, hurt others. The abused can often abuse others, if they don't get the help they need.
Thank you George.
Here's the thing, Di. This may sound cold, but I really DON'T CARE if Tommy was abused a a child. I was abused as a young adult, Alex was abused as a child as was the other victim in VA. We're not going around abusing others. Prior abuse is no excuse, it's a cop out used by people who care about no one but themselves.
-
I am not saying that you cannot determine good from evil. I am saying that it is not Bob's place to start a thread to call anyone to redemption or repentence. This apparently is not going to happen, as they are maintaining TS innocence. They are not going to apologize or show support to the victims as long as they maintain there are no victims. They still are talking about Duane being a consenting adult. We have at least5 threads telling them how wrong they are, while they still maintain that innocence. It is wrong there are no if, and or buts about it. That is also why the supporters are sticking to their guns on this. They even know the acts TS committed are atrocioius. So much so, they live in denial of him committing such acts. So what is the point of providing a place for them to do something they ahve no intention of doing, but to make one more dig into DS.
Reaching the conscience, and encouarging repentance is the work of the Holy Spirit, mainly because only God knows the mind/motives. We can't reach them becasue we can only judge their actions, not their hearts. "Man looks on the outward appearance,but the Lord looks on the heart". I know that you all don't want to hear this, but TS did not becomeas abuser all by himself, because he is some kind of sick monster. Odds are that he himself was also molested as a child, a victim himself. Hurting people, hurt others. The abused can often abuse others, if they don't get the help they need.
Thank you George.
Here's the thing, Di. This may sound cold, but I really DON'T CARE if Tommy was abused a a child. I was abused as a young adult, Alex was abused as a child as was the other victim in VA. We're not going around abusing others. Prior abuse is no excuse, it's a cop out used by people who care about no one but themselves.
:goodpost:
-
You are incorrect. There are allegations of TS committing sexual acts against young males on 3ABN grounds.
Duane I remember that you claimed you met TS on the 3abn grounds, but I am speaking about child molestation allegations here.You don't like having it pointed out that you were 19, and not a child, and drove yourself to meet him, yet you always come interjecting yourself into discussions about child molestation, causing confusion and that is what makes that necessary.
-
You are incorrect. There are allegations of TS committing sexual acts against young males on 3ABN grounds.
Duane I remember that you claimed you met TS on the 3abn grounds, but I am speaking about child molestation allegations here.You don't like having it pointed out that you were 19, and not a child, and drove yourself to meet him, yet you always come interjecting yourself into discussions about child molestation, causing confusion and that is what makes that necessary.
I'm not talking about myself, you meddling busybody.
And for the record, it was ME who first stated I was 19 and drove myself to meet him, so your attack on me is irrelevant. It looks to me like it's YOU who keeps interjecting themselves into discussions. I'm not going anywhere, so you may as well get used to that.
-
False. The current case against pedophile Tommy Shelton involves a victim's accusations which Glenn Dryden announced toward the end of 2006. I published that announcement, and Danny Shelton threatened to sue. When Danny did sue, 3ABN joined Danny as a co-plaintiff.
So help me understand what you are talking about, Bob. ARe you saying that the information you posted regarding those victims was part of the law suit?
He claims it is, but the truth is no, it wasn't and isn't part of the lawsuit.
Pat, I have to agree with Bob.....to a point......the fact that TS was allowed to work at 3ABN, with children, is inexcusable. Even though there were no charges made by no law enforcement authorities, the family, at least DS knew better, and should not have taken upon himself to make the decision to exposed those children WITHOUT the knowledge of their parents.
princessdi, I understand what you are saying, but the Truth is TS did not work with children, he did not work with young underage boys. He was working in the tape archives at 3abn when Pastor Glenn Dryden sent his letter to 3abn in 2003. Dryden was under the impression that 3abn had hired TS to minister to others, but they had not. He never had a job like that at 3abn. As you said, at that time there were no charges, no reports filed, nothing, but that doesn't mean they were stupid, or that TS was. He had a shadow hanging over his head.To be above reproach and avoid the appearance of evil, and provide no opportunity for anything untoward, or blame, he was never given never worked with children, or was in any way alone with them. The only time he was around children was when he played the piano on the set of kids time, but that was always with all of the set and crew and parents present. He was always in plain sight of all. He played , then he left.
Bob keeps acting like he should have been treated as a registered sex offender, but he wasn't a registered sex offender. There were in fact no reports or complaints filed against him, but that doesn't mean precautions weren't taken.
My point here in speaking here, is that Bob wants to use all the allegations against Tommy and hold DS and 3ABN accountable. He wants to blame them. But if anyone is to blame corporately, or if anyone can be sued here, it would need to be the Church of God where the alleged incidents took place. That is where Tommy was Pastor, and that is where he was the Principal of the school.
Unfortunately whenever one of us in attempting to defend 3abn, points any of this out or tries to make it known, we get whacked over the head with the "You're defending a child molestor" club, or have the "you're victimizing the victims" whip is cracked across our back. It gets old.
My point is the current case, in addition to all of the other allegations against Tommy Shelton have nothing to do with 3ABN. They weren't even part of the lawsuit although Bob has tried very hard to make it part of the lawsuit with his convoluted arguments, and attempted filings. All anyone has to do is read the complaint 3abn filed against Pickle and Joy to see that.
I hope this explanation helps some. :)
edit- quote box
-
princessdi, I understand what you are saying, but the Truth is TS did not work with children, he did not work with young underage boys. He was working in the tape archives at 3abn when Pastor Glenn Dryden sent his letter to 3abn in 2003. Dryden was under the impression that 3abn had hired TS to minister to others, but they had not. He never had a job like that at 3abn. As you said, at that time there were no charges, no reports filed, nothing, but that doesn't mean they were stupid, or that TS was. He had a shadow hanging over his head.To be above reproach and avoid the appearance of evil, and provide no opportunity for anything untoward, or blame, he was never given never worked with children, or was in any way alone with them. The only time he was around children was when he played the piano on the set of kids time, but that was always with all of the set and crew and parents present. He was always in plain sight of all. He played , then he left.
The ONLY way you can know that is if you were personally there for EVERY taping of Kids Time. Were you?
-
princessdi, I understand what you are saying, but the Truth is TS did not work with children, he did not work with young underage boys. He was working in the tape archives at 3abn when Pastor Glenn Dryden sent his letter to 3abn in 2003. Dryden was under the impression that 3abn had hired TS to minister to others, but they had not. He never had a job like that at 3abn. As you said, at that time there were no charges, no reports filed, nothing, but that doesn't mean they were stupid, or that TS was. He had a shadow hanging over his head.To be above reproach and avoid the appearance of evil, and provide no opportunity for anything untoward, or blame, he was never given never worked with children, or was in any way alone with them. The only time he was around children was when he played the piano on the set of kids time, but that was always with all of the set and crew and parents present. He was always in plain sight of all. He played , then he left.
The ONLY way you can know that is if you were personally there for EVERY taping of Kids Time. Were you?
There is no need for hostilty. No, I was not there every time, but others were, and can testify about that if it is ever needed.
-
False. The current case against pedophile Tommy Shelton involves a victim's accusations which Glenn Dryden announced toward the end of 2006. I published that announcement, and Danny Shelton threatened to sue. When Danny did sue, 3ABN joined Danny as a co-plaintiff.
So help me understand what you are talking about, Bob. ARe you saying that the information you posted regarding those victims was part of the law suit?
He claims it is, but the truth is no, it wasn't and isn't part of the lawsuit.
Pat, I have to agree with Bob.....to a point......the fact that TS was allowed to work at 3ABN, with children, is inexcusable. Even though there were no charges made by no law enforcement authorities, the family, at least DS knew better, and should not have taken upon himself to make the decision to exposed those children WITHOUT the knowledge of their parents.
princessdi, I understand what you are saying, but the Truth is TS did not work with children, he did not work with young underage boys. He was working in the tape archives at 3abn when Pastor Glenn Dryden sent his letter to 3abn in 2003. Dryden was under the impression that 3abn had hired TS to minister to others, but they had not. He never had a job like that at 3abn. As you said, at that time there were no charges, no reports filed, nothing, but that doesn't mean they were stupid, or that TS was. He had a shadow hanging over his head.To be above reproach and avoid the appearance of evil, and provide no opportunity for anything untoward, or blame, he was never given never worked with children, or was in any way alone with them. The only time he was around children was when he played the piano on the set of kids time, but that was always with all of the set and crew and parents present. He was always in plain sight of all. He played , then he left.
Bob keeps acting like he should have been treated as a registered sex offender, but he wasn't a registered sex offender. There were in fact no reports or complaints filed against him, but that doesn't mean precautions weren't taken.
My point here in speaking here, is that Bob wants to use all the allegations against Tommy and hold DS and 3ABN accountable. He wants to blame them. But if anyone is to blame corporately, or if anyone can be sued here, it would need to be the Church of God where the alleged incidents took place. That is where Tommy was Pastor, and that is where he was the Principal of the school.
Unfortunately whenever one of us in attempting to defend 3abn, points any of this out or tries to make it known, we get whacked over the head with the "You're defending a child molestor" club, or have the "you're victimizing the victims" whip is cracked across our back. It gets old.
My point is the current case, in addition to all of the other allegations against Tommy Shelton have nothing to do with 3ABN. They weren't even part of the lawsuit although Bob has tried very hard to make it part of the lawsuit with his convoluted arguments, and attempted filings. All anyone has to do is read the complaint 3abn filed against Pickle and Joy to see that.
I hope this explanation helps some. :)
edit- quote box
This is somewhere where I believe we do agree. The church should be held accountable for allowing this. I find it hard to believe that the church of God in VA, was not aware of allegations against Tommy. If they indeed did, they need to be held accountable.
-
princessdi, I understand what you are saying, but the Truth is TS did not work with children, he did not work with young underage boys. He was working in the tape archives at 3abn when Pastor Glenn Dryden sent his letter to 3abn in 2003. Dryden was under the impression that 3abn had hired TS to minister to others, but they had not. He never had a job like that at 3abn. As you said, at that time there were no charges, no reports filed, nothing, but that doesn't mean they were stupid, or that TS was. He had a shadow hanging over his head.To be above reproach and avoid the appearance of evil, and provide no opportunity for anything untoward, or blame, he was never given never worked with children, or was in any way alone with them. The only time he was around children was when he played the piano on the set of kids time, but that was always with all of the set and crew and parents present. He was always in plain sight of all. He played , then he left.
The ONLY way you can know that is if you were personally there for EVERY taping of Kids Time. Were you?
There is no need for hostilty. No, I was not there every time, but others were, and can testify about that if it is ever needed.
You must be closer then a bed bug. What makes you believe that a pedophile does anything around visibility of others, they wait until in the dark closet and nothing seen. You been in the closet to Know he sits in there doing nothing???
-
I am not saying that you cannot determine good from evil. I am saying that it is not Bob's place to start a thread to call anyone to redemption or repentence.
I did not start this thread for that purpose.
However, it is our responsibility to call people to redemption and repentance. That's what evangelism is all about. And 3ABN should not stop doing so.
-
He claims it is, but the truth is no, it wasn't and isn't part of the lawsuit.
Simpson claimed it was too. Duffy's cease and desist letter only referenced Tommy-related topics.
Explain what Mollie's and Ewing's affidavits mean if they aren't referring to our releases on Tommy.
As you said, at that time there were no charges, no reports filed, nothing, but that doesn't mean they were stupid, or that TS was. He had a shadow hanging over his head.To be above reproach and avoid the appearance of evil, and provide no opportunity for anything untoward, or blame, he was never given never worked with children, or was in any way alone with them.
Why weren't Pastor Lomacang and Principal O'Brien told that there was a pedophile, a sexual predator on campus?
My point is the current case, in addition to all of the other allegations against Tommy Shelton have nothing to do with 3ABN. They weren't even part of the lawsuit although Bob has tried very hard to make it part of the lawsuit with his convoluted arguments, and attempted filings. All anyone has to do is read the complaint 3abn filed against Pickle and Joy to see that.
Don't ignore my point. Address it. What did Mollie and Ewing's affidavits mean? Were we sued over a decline in donations in 2006 or not? If we were sued for a decline in donations in 2006, what caused that decline?
But there are other ways that Tommy is involved in the lawsuit. Go to http://www.save-3abn.com/3abn-and-danny-v-joy-and-pickle-complaint.htm (http://www.save-3abn.com/3abn-and-danny-v-joy-and-pickle-complaint.htm):
¶ 46 The check(s) that were sent to Tommy could have had something to do with buying the silence of victim(s).
¶ 48(a) Why else would a pedophile replace an alleged adulteress?
¶ 48(c) The hiring of Tommy, and Walt's failure to properly investigate the allegations, fall under here.
¶ 48(d) & ¶ 50(b) ASI was supposed to investigate the Tommy allegations, but Danny and 3ABn refused to allow that.
¶ 50 The replacing of Linda with a known pedophile shows that Danny did not divorce Linda over adultery.
¶¶ 46, 48, 50: The paragraphs all use the word inter alia which means that there are other allegations in the lawsuit in these categories that are not listed in the complaint. And Tommy fits.
-
princessdi, I understand what you are saying, but the Truth is TS did not work with children, he did not work with young underage boys. He was working in the tape archives at 3abn when Pastor Glenn Dryden sent his letter to 3abn in 2003. Dryden was under the impression that 3abn had hired TS to minister to others, but they had not. He never had a job like that at 3abn. As you said, at that time there were no charges, no reports filed, nothing, but that doesn't mean they were stupid, or that TS was. He had a shadow hanging over his head.To be above reproach and avoid the appearance of evil, and provide no opportunity for anything untoward, or blame, he was never given never worked with children, or was in any way alone with them. The only time he was around children was when he played the piano on the set of kids time, but that was always with all of the set and crew and parents present. He was always in plain sight of all. He played , then he left.
The ONLY way you can know that is if you were personally there for EVERY taping of Kids Time. Were you?
There is no need for hostilty. No, I was not there every time, but others were, and can testify about that if it is ever needed.
I'm not "being hostile", I'm asking a question. So, since you weren't there every time, you DON'T know if he was ever along with children, do you? You're depending on hearsay. I thought your bunch hated hearsay.
-
princessdi, I understand what you are saying, but the Truth is TS did not work with children, he did not work with young underage boys. He was working in the tape archives at 3abn when Pastor Glenn Dryden sent his letter to 3abn in 2003. Dryden was under the impression that 3abn had hired TS to minister to others, but they had not. He never had a job like that at 3abn. As you said, at that time there were no charges, no reports filed, nothing, but that doesn't mean they were stupid, or that TS was. He had a shadow hanging over his head.To be above reproach and avoid the appearance of evil, and provide no opportunity for anything untoward, or blame, he was never given never worked with children, or was in any way alone with them. The only time he was around children was when he played the piano on the set of kids time, but that was always with all of the set and crew and parents present. He was always in plain sight of all. He played , then he left.
The ONLY way you can know that is if you were personally there for EVERY taping of Kids Time. Were you?
There is no need for hostilty. No, I was not there every time, but others were, and can testify about that if it is ever needed.
I'm not "being hostile",
I was referring to your constant name calling, such as "coward" "meddling busybody" and your posts consisting of one line insults, etc. It's not necessary in my view, and it sounds hostile to me. It's also reminiscent of a pesky fly who just keeps circling and landing.
I'm asking a question. So, since you weren't there every time, you DON'T know if he was ever along with children, do you? You're depending on hearsay. I thought your bunch hated hearsay.
Duane you have intelligence so I am sure you understand that the 3abn production crew and Kid's time Staff who were always present when Tommy came to play the piano, and then left, are what is called first person witnesses.
My testimony here is hearsay as you are getting it secondhand. My testimony would not be allowed in court. Their testimony is not hearsay and would be allowed in court if needed, and that is what I said.
-
My point is the current case, in addition to all of the other allegations against Tommy Shelton have nothing to do with 3ABN. They weren't even part of the lawsuit although Bob has tried very hard to make it part of the lawsuit with his convoluted arguments, and attempted filings. All anyone has to do is read the complaint 3abn filed against Pickle and Joy to see that.
Don't ignore my point. Address it. What did Mollie and Ewing's affidavits mean? Were we sued over a decline in donations in 2006 or not? If we were sued for a decline in donations in 2006, what caused that decline?
Bossy bossy.. Their affidavits mean what they say. The don't mention TS or your allegations against him.. It's you who keeps trying to make the affidavits about that.
But there are other ways that Tommy is involved in the lawsuit. Go to http://www.save-3abn.com/3abn-and-danny-v-joy-and-pickle-complaint.htm (http://www.save-3abn.com/3abn-and-danny-v-joy-and-pickle-complaint.htm):
¶ 46 The check(s) that were sent to Tommy could have had something to do with buying the silence of victim(s).
¶ 48(a) Why else would a pedophile replace an alleged adulteress?
¶ 48(c) The hiring of Tommy, and Walt's failure to properly investigate the allegations, fall under here.
¶ 48(d) & ¶ 50(b) ASI was supposed to investigate the Tommy allegations, but Danny and 3ABn refused to allow that.
¶ 50 The replacing of Linda with a known pedophile shows that Danny did not divorce Linda over adultery.
Pickle you are quoting yourself here. Just because you said this doesn't mean the lawsuit was about this. This is just what I was explaining:
My point is the current case, in addition to all of the other allegations against Tommy Shelton have nothing to do with 3ABN. They weren't even part of the lawsuit although Bob has tried very hard to make it part of the lawsuit with his convoluted arguments, and attempted filings. All anyone has to do is read the complaint 3abn filed against Pickle and Joy to see that
So here is the actual complaint 3ABN filed against you and Joy. Here is what you were replying to above. Intelligent folks can see it doesn't mention TS or any allegations against TS as the lawsuit wasn't about that.
Defendants' Untrue Statements
46.
Gailon Joy and Robert Pickle have published numerous untrue statements that 3ABN and its President Danny Shelton have committed financial improprieties with donated ministry funds. Among those untrue statements made by Joy and Pickle are, inter alia, that:
a.
For the last several years, the international television ministry known as Three Angels' Broadcasting Network (3ABN) has found itself beset by a growing number of moral, ethical, and financial allegations. Despite the serious nature of these allegations, repeated calls for investigation, reform, and accountability have gone unheeded by its officers and directors.
b.
Danny Shelton purchased a 3-year-old van using 3ABN funds, then sold the van to a member of his family for just $10.00.
c.
Danny Shelton purchased new furniture with 3ABN funds, put the new furniture in his residence, and put the old furniture from his residence on the 3ABN television set.
d.
Danny Shelton used 3ABN funds to purchase used furniture from his sister, Tammy Chance, at nearly new prices (enabling Ms. Chance to buy brand new furniture for her home), for use in a 3ABN guest house, but, instead of putting the used furniture in the 3ABN guest house, Mr. Shelton gave the furniture to yet another family member and used 3ABN funds to purchase brand new furniture for the guest house.
e.
The 3ABN Board of Directors has failed in its responsibility to oversee and manage 3ABN's financial assets.
[page 13]
f.
Danny Shelton laundered money through 3ABN donations to Cherie Peters, in order to make payments that had been expressly prohibited by the 3ABN Board of directors.
g.
3ABN Board members have personally enriched themselves as officers and directors of 3ABN in violation of the Internal Revenue Code.
h.
Danny Shelton wrongfully withheld book royalties from 3ABN and refused to disclose those royalties in proceedings before a court of law related to the distribution of marital assets.
i.
Danny Shelton has directed 3ABN Chief Financial Officer Larry Ewing to not answer questions concerning Danny Shelton's personal finances, expenses, bonuses or book royalties in a Family Court proceeding, which was initiated by Linda Shelton regarding division of marital assets and that Mr. Ewing has complied and refused to answer questions posed to him by the Court.
j.
Danny Shelton has used the 3ABN corporate plane for personal uses.
k.
Danny Shelton spent $600,000 of 3ABN funds for radio station WDQN without Board approval and paid in excess of its fair market value, which was only $250,000.
47.
Each and every one of the statements set forth above is false and Defendants published them with malice, either knowing them to be false or with wanton and reckless disregard for the truth or falsity of the statements.
48.
Gailon Joy and Robert Pickle have published numerous untrue statements that 3ABN and its President Danny Shelton have committed administrative and operational improprieties at 3ABN and that the organization is not properly or competently managed by its
[page 14]
managers, officers, and directors. Among those untrue statements made by Defendants are, inter alia, that:
a.
3ABN engages in nepotism in the hiring and firing of staff.
b.
3ABN violated the Federal Equal Opportunity Act by taking adverse employment actions against two whistle-blower employees of 3ABN's Trust Services division.
c.
The 3ABN Board of Directors has failed in its responsibility to oversee the governance and administration of the organization.
d.
Danny Shelton and 3ABN would not permit an ecumenical Seventh-Day Adventist-related, fact-finding tribunal proposed and directed by Adventist-laymen's Services and Industries ("ASI") to investigate all allegations related to the ministry and confined the tribunal to only those allegations involving Linda Shelton's removal and the Shelton's' divorce.
49.
Each and every one of the statements set forth above is false and Defendants published them with malice, either knowing them to be false or with wanton and reckless disregard for the truth or falsity of the statements.
50.
Gailon Joy and Robert Pickle have made numerous published untrue statements that 3ABN and its President Danny Shelton acted without grounds in removing Linda Shelton from the 3ABN Board of Directors, that Danny Shelton had no grounds for divorcing Linda Shelton, that 3ABN and Danny Shelton conspired to hide evidence and information concerning the removal and divorce, and that 3ABN and Danny Shelton have lied and made otherwise purposeful misstatements concerning the Shelton's' divorce and Danny Shelton's remarriage. Among those untrue statements made by Defendants are, inter alia, that:
[page 15]
a.
Danny Shelton and ASI conspired to exclude Gailon Joy from participating in a fact-finding tribunal regarding Linda Shelton's divorce and removal from 3ABN.
b.
Danny Shelton and ASI conspired to prevent various allegations and issues from being included in the fact-finding tribunal.
c.
It was Danny Shelton that participated in an extra-marital affair by becoming "involved" in "after hours activities" with 3ABN employee Brenda Walsh.
d.
During his marriage to Linda Shelton, Danny Shelton had several inappropriate extra-marital relationships, of which 3ABN staff and board members were aware.
e.
Danny Shelton was preparing to divorce Linda Shelton beginning in 2003.
f.
Danny Shelton conducted an inappropriate relationship with from August 2004 until they were married in 2006, and 3ABN's officers and directors were aware of the relationship.
g.
Danny Shelton lied by claiming to have joint title with Linda Shelton to a Toyota Sequoia automobile.
h.
The 3ABN board of directors had no authority to authorize Danny Shelton's adulterous marriage or to allow his continued employment by and direction of 3ABN.
i.
Danny Shelton perjured himself through the course of court proceedings relating to his divorce from Linda Shelton.
51.
Each and every one of the statements set forth above is false and Defendants published them with malice, either knowing them to be false or with wanton and reckless disregard for the truth or falsity of the statements.
-
My point is the current case, in addition to all of the other allegations against Tommy Shelton have nothing to do with 3ABN. They weren't even part of the lawsuit although Bob has tried very hard to make it part of the lawsuit with his convoluted arguments, and attempted filings. All anyone has to do is read the complaint 3abn filed against Pickle and Joy to see that.
Don't ignore my point. Address it. What did Mollie and Ewing's affidavits mean? Were we sued over a decline in donations in 2006 or not? If we were sued for a decline in donations in 2006, what caused that decline?
Bossy bossy.. Their affidavits mean what they say. The don't mention TS or your allegations against him.. It's you who keeps trying to make the affidavits about that.
You're still ignoring the point. Address it: If we were sued for a decline in donations in 2006, what caused that decline?
As far as your copy and paste of part of the complaint goes, you've proved my point:
1. The paragraphs I cited use the term inter alia just like I said they do.
2. Sending $10,000 love gifts to Tommy Shelton was a financial impropriety, covered under ¶ 46.
3. Danny hired known pedophile and sexual predator Tommy Shelton because of nepotism, which topic is addressed in ¶ 48(a).
4. The 3ABN Board failed to oversee 3ABN's governance and administration when it allowed Danny to hire a known pedophile, when Walt failed to properly investigate the allegations, and when the board authorized a frivolous and malicious suit against us, which Danny was using to retaliate against us for blowing the whistle, all falling under ¶ 48(c).
5. The Tommy allegations were one of the issues that GC employees believed ASI was going to investigate, and which I personally corresponded with Harold Lance and Danny about. Danny, 3ABN, and Harold Lance refused to allow those allegations to be investigated, a fact referred to under ¶ 48(d) & ¶ 50(b).
6. ¶ 50 refers to why Danny divorced Linda. Did he have biblical grounds? Hal Steenson proved he did by saying that Danny divorced Linda. But that doesn't cut it, since Danny replaced Linda with a known pedophile and sexual predator. Therefore, the mere fact that Danny knows what biblical grounds for divorce are, and that he divorced Linda, is insufficient to prove that he divorced her for that reason.
I suppose you prefer to call Attorney Gregory Simpson a liar when he said that our reports of Danny's cover up of the Tommy allegations is part of what framed the original basis for the lawsuit against us.
-
But there are other ways that Tommy is involved in the lawsuit. Go to http://www.save-3abn.com/3abn-and-danny-v-joy-and-pickle-complaint.htm (http://www.save-3abn.com/3abn-and-danny-v-joy-and-pickle-complaint.htm):
¶ 46 The check(s) that were sent to Tommy could have had something to do with buying the silence of victim(s).
¶ 48(a) Why else would a pedophile replace an alleged adulteress?
¶ 48(c) The hiring of Tommy, and Walt's failure to properly investigate the allegations, fall under here.
¶ 48(d) & ¶ 50(b) ASI was supposed to investigate the Tommy allegations, but Danny and 3ABn refused to allow that.
¶ 50 The replacing of Linda with a known pedophile shows that Danny did not divorce Linda over adultery.
¶¶ 46, 48, 50: The paragraphs all use the word inter alia which means that there are other allegations in the lawsuit in these categories that are not listed in the complaint. And Tommy fits.
O for pete's sake Robert Pickle. I just looked at your link, and it has nothing to do with what you just posted above. In fact, what looks to be answers to the complaint filed by 3ABN against you and Joy as you just wrote them with your could be's and maybe's , were not ever even given in your reply to the complaint. (Your answers to the numbered items you are referencing as filed by you and Joy are below.) The Johnny come lately arguments you just made are deceptive in my view, and only good for one thing. (flush..)
Defendants’ Untrue Statements
Gailon Joy and Robert Pickle have published numerous untrue statements
that 3ABN and its President Danny Shelton have committed financial improprieties with
donated ministry funds. Among those untrue statements made by Joy and Pickle are,
inter alia, that:
Answer of Defendants to 46: Plaintiffs are left to their proof that the statements published are untrue, that the defendants knew them to be untrue. The defendants assert that they properly researched each such statement now challenged and that the factually challenged statements, or unresponsive statements of the plaintiffs constitute an absolute defense in fact against the presumption of wanton and reckless disregard of the truth or falsity of the claims. Therefore denied.
a. For the last several years, the international television ministry
known as Three Angels’ Broadcasting Network (3ABN) has found itself beset by a
growing number of moral, ethical, and financial allegations. Despite the serious nature of
these allegations, repeated calls for investigation, reform, and accountability have gone
unheeded by its officers and directors.
Answer of Defendants to 46a:Admitted that the ministry is best by allegations. Plaintiff is
left to their proof that any allegation has been properly acted upon by its officers or board
of directors. Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a restatement of a protected
source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the allegations or have been
factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without sufficient evidence upon which to
state a fact based response and request the right to supplement their response upon
completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
b. Danny Shelton purchased a 3-year-old van using 3ABN funds,
then sold the van to a member of his family for just $10.00.
Answer of Defendants to 46b: Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the 26
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
c. Danny Shelton purchased new furniture with 3ABN funds, put the
new furniture in his residence, and put the old furniture from his residence on the 3ABN
television set.
Answer of Defendants to 46c: Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
d. Danny Shelton used 3ABN funds to purchase used furniture from
his sister, Tammy Chance, at nearly new prices (enabling Ms. Chance to buy brand new
furniture for her home), for use in a 3ABN guest house, but, instead of putting the used
furniture in the 3ABN guest house, Mr. Shelton gave the furniture to yet another family
member and used 3ABN funds to purchase brand new furniture for the guest house.
Answer of d Defendants to 46d: Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
e. The 3ABN Board of Directors has failed in its responsibility to oversee and manage 3ABN’s financial assets.
Answer of Defendants to 46e: Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
f. Danny Shelton laundered money through 3ABN donations to
Cherie Peters, in order to make payments that had been expressly prohibited by the
3ABN Board of directors.
Answer of Defendants to 46f: Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
g. 3ABN Board members have personally enriched themselves as
officers and directors of 3ABN in violation of the Internal Revenue Code.
Answer of Defendants to 46g: Defendants do not recall an allegation that Board
Members, other than the President, Danny Lee Shelton, have enriched themselves. If it
did then it would be that Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
h. Danny Shelton wrongfully withheld book royalties from 3ABN
and refused to disclose those royalties in proceedings before a court of law related to the
distribution of marital assets.
Answer of Defendants to 46h: Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
Answer of Defendant Pickle to 46h: Defendant Pickle is unaware of any books that
3ABN has written. Therefore denied.
i. Danny Shelton has directed 3ABN Chief Financial Officer Larry Ewing to not answer questions concerning Danny Shelton’s personal finances, expenses, bonuses or book royalties in a Family Court proceeding, which was initiated by Linda Shelton regarding division of marital assets and that Mr. Ewing has complied and refused to answer questions posed to him by the Court.
Answer of Defendants to 46i:Defendants do not recall an allegation that Mr Ewing was
posed questions by a court. Otherwise, Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
j. Danny Shelton has used the 3ABN corporate plane for personal
uses.
Answer of Defendants to 46j: Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
k. Danny Shelton spent $600,000 of 3ABN funds for radio station WDQN without Board approval and paid in excess of its fair market value, which was only $250,000.
Answer of Defendants to 46k: Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
47. Each and every one of the statements set forth above is false and Defendants published them with malice, either knowing them to be false or with wanton
and reckless disregard for the truth or falsity of the statements.
Answer of Defendants to 47: Plaintiffs are left to their proof that the statements published are untrue, that the defendants knew them to be untrue. Therefore the defendants assert that that the factually challenged statements, or unresponsive statements of the plaintiffs. constitute an absolute defense in fact against the presumption of wanton and reckless disregard of the truth or falsity of the claims. Therefore denied.
48. Gailon Joy and Robert Pickle have published numerous untrue statements
that 3ABN and its President Danny Shelton have committed administrative and
operational improprieties at 3ABN and that the organization is not properly or
competently managed by its managers, officers, and directors. Among those untrue
statements made by Defendants are, inter alia, that:
Answer of Defendants to 48: Plaintiffs are left to their proof that the statements published are untrue, that the defendants knew them to be untrue. Therefore the defendants assert that that the factually challenged statements, or unresponsive statements of the plaintiffs. constitute an absolute defense in fact against the presumption of wanton and reckless disregard of the truth or falsity of the claims. Therefore denied.
a. 3ABN engages in nepotism in the hiring and firing of staff.
Answer of Defendants to 48a: If the allegation has been made, Defendants are publishing
an allegation that is a restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been
unresponsive to the allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants
are without sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the
right to supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
b. 3ABN violated the Federal Equal Opportunity Act by taking
adverse employment actions against two whistle-blower employees of 3ABN’s Trust
Services division.
Answer of Defendants to 48b: Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
c. The 3ABN Board of Directors has failed in its responsibility to
oversee the governance and administration of the organization.
Answer of Defendants to 48c: If the allegation has been made, Defendants are publishing
an allegation that is a restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been
unresponsive to the allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants
are without sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the
right to supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
d. Danny Shelton and 3ABN would not permit an ecumenical
Seventh-Day Adventist-related, fact-finding tribunal proposed and directed by Adventistlaymen’s Services and Industries (“ASI”) to investigate all allegations related to the ministry and confined the tribunal to only those allegations involving Linda Shelton’s
removal and the Shelton’s’ divorce.
Answer of Defendants to 48d: Defendants note that the terms "ecumenical" and
"Seventh-day Adventism" are mutually inconsistent, the first not being a part of the tenets of the second, therefore any allegation contained in the statement is denied. However, if such an allegation was actually made, Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
48. Each and every one of the statements set forth above is false and Defendants published them with malice, either knowing them to be false or with wanton
and reckless disregard for the truth or falsity of the statements.
Answer of Defendants to 49: Plaintiffs are left to their proof that the allegations are false,
that the defendants knew they were false and therefore represent wanton and disregard
for the truth or falsity. Therefore, denied by the defendants.
49. Gailon Joy and Robert Pickle have made numerous published untrue
statements that 3ABN and its President Danny Shelton acted without grounds in
removing Linda Shelton from the 3ABN Board of Directors, that Danny Shelton had no
grounds for divorcing Linda Shelton, that 3ABN and Danny Shelton conspired to hide
evidence and information concerning the removal and divorce, and that 3ABN and
Danny Shelton have lied and made otherwise purposeful misstatements concerning the
Shelton’s’ divorce and Danny Shelton’s remarriage. Among those untrue statements
made by Defendants are, inter alia, that:
Answer of Defendants to 49: Plaintiffs are left to their proof that the statements published are untrue, that the defendants knew them to be untrue. Therefore the defendants assert that that the factually challenged statements, or unresponsive statements of the plaintiffs. constitute an absolute defense in fact against the presumption of wanton and reckless disregard of the truth or falsity of the claims. Therefore denied..
a. Danny Shelton and ASI conspired to exclude Gailon Joy from participating in a
fact-finding tribunal regarding Linda Shelton’s divorce and removal from 3ABN.
Answer of Defendants to 49a: Admitted inasmuch as Defendants are publishing an
allegation that is a restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been
unresponsive to the allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants
are without sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the
right to supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
b. Danny Shelton and ASI conspired to prevent various allegations and issues from
being included in the fact-finding tribunal.
Answer of Defendants to 49b: Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
c. It was Danny Shelton that participated in an extra-marital affair by becoming
“involved” in “after hours activities” with 3ABN employee Brenda Walsh.
Answer of Defendants to 49c: Defendants do not recall such a specific allegation but
inasmuch as it is believed to be inferred, Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
d. During his marriage to Linda Shelton, Danny Shelton had several inappropriate
extra-marital relationships, of which 3ABN staff and board members were aware.
Answer of Defendants to 49d: Defendants do not recall alleging several extra-marital
relationships, and in particular not in any publication such as alleged by Plaintiffs, but
inasmuch as plaintiffs believe it is inferred, Defendants are publishing an allegation that
is a restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
a. Danny Shelton was preparing to divorce Linda Shelton beginning
in 2003.
Answer of Defendants to 49e: Defendants do believe that upon a preponderance of the
evidence that was available to the defendants, it be may be inferred, therefore,
Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a restatement of a protected source or
sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the allegations or have been factually
challenged. Therefore, defendants are without sufficient evidence upon which to state a
fact based response and request the right to supplement their response upon completion
of discovery. Therefore denied.
f. Danny Shelton conducted an inappropriate relationship with from
August 2004 until they were married in 2006, and 3ABN’s officers and directors were
aware of the relationship.
Answer of Defendants to 49f: Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
g. Danny Shelton lied by claiming to have joint title with Linda
Shelton to a Toyota Sequoia automobile.
Answer of Defendants to 49g: Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
h.The 3ABN board of directors had no authority to authorize Danny Shelton’s adulterous
marriage or to allow his continued employment by and direction of 3ABN.
Answer of Defendants to 49h: The defendants alleged conclusion relates to ecclesiastical
authority and ecclesiastical foundation. However, Defendants are publishing an allegation
that is a restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
i.Danny Shelton perjured himself through the course of court proceedings relating to his
divorce from Linda Shelton.
Answer of Defendants to 49i:Defendants do not recall such an allegation, but inasmuch
as the plaintiffs feel it is inferred, Defendants are publishing an allegation that is a
restatement of a protected source or sources. Plaintiffs have been unresponsive to the
allegations or have been factually challenged. Therefore, defendants are without
sufficient evidence upon which to state a fact based response and request the right to
supplement their response upon completion of discovery. Therefore denied.
50. Each and every one of the statements set forth above is false and
Defendants published them with malice, either knowing them to be false or with wanton
and reckless disregard for the truth or falsity of the statements.
Answer of Defendants to 50: Plaintiffs are left to their proof that the statements published are untrue, that the defendants knew them to be untrue. Therefore the defendants assert that that the factually challenged statements, or unresponsive statements of the plaintiffs constitute an absolute defense in fact against the presumption of wanton and reckless disregard of the truth or falsity of the claims. Therefore denied.
-
Pat,
It would be much better if you would simply address the points I have made rather than ignore them. When a valid point is made, acknowledge it. Otherwise you simply look like a paid spin doctor.
So let's take them one point at a time: Why else would Danny hire someone he knew to be a sexual predator and a pedophile if it weren't for nepotism? This falls under ¶ 48(a).
Answer that one and then we'll go on.
-
Pat,
It would be much better if you would simply address the points I have made rather than ignore them. When a valid point is made, acknowledge it.
When you do, I will.
laters...
-
Pat,
It would be much better if you would simply address the points I have made rather than ignore them. When a valid point is made, acknowledge it.
When you do, I will.
I did make a valid point. Why would Danny hire his brother, a known sexual predator and pedophile, and then replace Linda with him, if it wasn't for nepotism?
-
Pat,
It would be much better if you would simply address the points I have made rather than ignore them. When a valid point is made, acknowledge it.
When you do, I will.
I did make a valid point. Why would Danny hire his brother, a known sexual predator and pedophile, and then replace Linda with him, if it wasn't for nepotism?
No, Bob. Those are called accusations. That question is like me asking: "Have you stopped abusing and browbeating your wife yet? And why would you do that if you weren't such a control freak, Bob?" If I asked you that, you wouldn't say; "Oh that's a valid point, Pat". You'd demand a retraction, an apology, or both.
edit -grammar
-
Pat,
It would be much better if you would simply address the points I have made rather than ignore them. When a valid point is made, acknowledge it.
When you do, I will.
I did make a valid point. Why would Danny hire his brother, a known sexual predator and pedophile, and then replace Linda with him, if it wasn't for nepotism?
No, Bob. Those are called accusations. That question is like me asking: "Have you stopped abusing and browbeating your wife yet? And why would you do that if you weren't such a control freak, Bob?" If I asked you that, you wouldn't say; "Oh that's a valid point, Pat". You'd demand a retraction, an apology, or both.
edit -grammar
Then let's take it real slow.
1. Did Danny or 3ABN hire Tommy around 2001?
2. Did Danny know that Tommy was a sexual predator and a pedophile?
3. Did Tommy replace Linda as far as some functions go?
4. Is Tommy Danny's brother?
5. Is nepotism the preferential hiring of family members?
Which question do you believe is problematic? Certainly, not 1, 3, 4, and 5? So is the only one in dispute 2?
Narrow the problem down, and then let's discuss the detail you believe to be problematic.
-
Did Tommy have the formal education or the experience that would qualify him to head the production department at 3ABN? If the answer is no, and it is no, then what possible reason was there for hiring him other than nepotism?
-
Tommy testified before judge Bellows at the last hearing that he only had a High School Education. He then stated to the judge that he had took a few "Bible courses."
-
Tommy testified before judge Bellows at the last hearing that he only had a High School Education. He then stated to the judge that he had took a few "Bible courses."
So, Tommy did not have the educational or moral qualifications to be a pastor. Ronnie Shelton, who also does not have the educational requirements to be a minister is serving as an SDA pastor. Why?
-
Tommy testified before judge Bellows at the last hearing that he only had a High School Education. He then stated to the judge that he had took a few "Bible courses."
So, Tommy did not have the educational or moral qualifications to be a pastor. Ronnie Shelton, who also does not have the educational requirements to be a minister is serving as an SDA pastor. Why?
I have often wondered that myself. I do believe that churches need to start doing background checks before they hire people like this to be their pastor. This pastoral sex abuse, is becoming to common that it is sick.
-
Tommy testified before judge Bellows at the last hearing that he only had a High School Education. He then stated to the judge that he had took a few "Bible courses."
So, Tommy did not have the educational or moral qualifications to be a pastor. Ronnie Shelton, who also does not have the educational requirements to be a minister is serving as an SDA pastor. Why?
Ronnie is no longer serving as an Adventist pastor.
-
Another thing that really gripes me, is how on earth can someone with a H.S. education start the Ezra Christian School, and run it?
I have my own reasons for why he pushed for that school to be founded to begin with, but I'll remain quiet. I think it now is obvious....... :o
Can someone answer this question though, was there acts committed in the Ezra Church of God?
I know that both victims in Virginia have testified that they was molested in the church, as well as other places.
-
At one time, the Church of God(at least Dunn Loring's Group) did not require formal Bible or College Education. I was considering becoming a preacher. as I thought that God had called me to preach. The Church of God allows women pastors. Their requirements were that you were known to be a born again Christian, a long history of faith in God and be recommended by 2 or 3 people in the Church and community that were land owners. It was pretty much up to the church and pastor whether or not to ordain the person.
-
Another thing that really gripes me, is how on earth can someone with a H.S. education start the Ezra Christian School, and run it?
I have my own reasons for why he pushed for that school to be founded to begin with, but I'll remain quiet. I think it now is obvious....... :o
Can someone answer this question though, was there acts committed in the Ezra Church of God?
I know that both victims in Virginia have testified that they was molested in the church, as well as other places.
A college education is totally unnecessary to run a school. And yes, there were MANY acts committed inside the Ezra Church of God.
-
Another thing that really gripes me, is how on earth can someone with a H.S. education start the Ezra Christian School, and run it?
I have my own reasons for why he pushed for that school to be founded to begin with, but I'll remain quiet. I think it now is obvious....... :o
Can someone answer this question though, was there acts committed in the Ezra Church of God?
I know that both victims in Virginia have testified that they was molested in the church, as well as other places.
premeditation, premeditation, premeditation ...
-
Another thing that really gripes me, is how on earth can someone with a H.S. education start the Ezra Christian School, and run it?
I have my own reasons for why he pushed for that school to be founded to begin with, but I'll remain quiet. I think it now is obvious....... :o
Can someone answer this question though, was there acts committed in the Ezra Church of God?
I know that both victims in Virginia have testified that they was molested in the church, as well as other places.
A college education is totally unnecessary to run a school. And yes, there were MANY acts committed inside the Ezra Church of God.
Sorry, Duane, but I think we disagree on this. I believe someone should have a higher education than that they are teaching.
-
Sorry, Duane, but I think we disagree on this. I believe someone should have a higher education than that they are teaching.
In public school, run by people with college degrees, my achievement test scores were falling. I started attending Ezra Christian School, run by people with high school diplomas, and my test scores were off the chart when I graduated. The numbers speak for themselves.
-
Sorry, Duane, but I think we disagree on this. I believe someone should have a higher education than that they are teaching.
In public school, run by people with college degrees, my achievement test scores were falling. I started attending Ezra Christian School, run by people with high school diplomas, and my test scores were off the chart when I graduated. The numbers speak for themselves.
Well, I'm glad that it worked for you, I really am. However, from what I have been told the school wasn't the best ran when Alex went there. That is why he went to public school.
-
Duane, would you be so kind to answer a question for me, or anyone who knows?
Does the Ezra Christian School, require background checks before someone is employed?
Also, I would be interested in knowing if the Ezra Christian school has taken any safety measure to try to prevent actions as those committed by Tommy from happening again.
That goes for the two churches as well. You would think after something like this they have enacted something.
If not, that is sad.
-
Duane, would you be so kind to answer a question for me, or anyone who knows?
Does the Ezra Christian School, require background checks before someone is employed?
Also, I would be interested in knowing if the Ezra Christian school has taken any safety measure to try to prevent actions as those committed by Tommy from happening again.
That goes for the two churches as well. You would think after something like this they have enacted something.
If not, that is sad.
I honestly don't know. I haven't attended church there in several years.
I do agree with you that all churches should require background checks for anyone, paid or volunteer, who will be working with children in any capacity. It's sad that it has become necessary, but such are the times we live in.
-
Sorry, Duane, but I think we disagree on this. I believe someone should have a higher education than that they are teaching.
In public school, run by people with college degrees, my achievement test scores were falling. I started attending Ezra Christian School, run by people with high school diplomas, and my test scores were off the chart when I graduated. The numbers speak for themselves.
Well, I'm glad that it worked for you, I really am. However, from what I have been told the school wasn't the best ran when Alex went there. That is why he went to public school.
There were definitely problems in the past at Ezra; however, they were mostly managerial problems and had nothing to do with the curriculum or quality of education.
-
Thanks, Duane.
I will end this dialogue by saying this:
As an outsider who does not have first hand knowledge on anything. Except what I have been told. I would be appauled if in fact neither churches have enacted some sort of safety measure.
I also would be curious to know if the Three Angels Broadcasting Network has any of their own as well. My understanding is that they haven't in the past.
Things like this happen due to putting trust behind an individual as is evident in this situation. In the world we live in today, trust is not enough. This situation proves that 100%. Agree or disagree that is fact.
I believe it would be worth investigating if any of these organizations have taken any steps to prevent future occurences. That goes for both of the churches, as well as 3ABN.
-
Thanks, Duane.
I will end this dialogue by saying this:
As an outsider who does not have first hand knowledge on anything. Except what I have been told. I would be appauled if in fact neither churches have enacted some sort of safety measure.
I also would be curious to know if the Three Angels Broadcasting Network has any of their own as well. My understanding is that they haven't in the past.
Things like this happen due to putting trust behind an individual as is evident in this situation. In the world we live in today, trust is not enough. This situation proves that 100%. Agree or disagree that is fact.
I believe it would be worth investigating if any of these organizations have taken any steps to prevent future occurences. That goes for both of the churches, as well as 3ABN.
I totally agree. As I said, it's a shame that it's even necessary, but we simply can't afford to NOT do background checks anymore.
I do know that Ezra school has increased safety measures as far as being able to enter the building, but I also would be interested to know if they are doing background checks. I may do a little snooping.
-
In the case of Tommy Shelton and 3ABN, the person who hired him knew his problem. When Tommy worked with the children on Kid's Time, Danny knew the potential harm that could occur to one or more of the children. He did not inform the parents, he allowed his brother to be in a position where he could become a predator. Why?
-
In the case of Tommy Shelton and 3ABN, the person who hired him knew his problem. When Tommy worked with the children on Kid's Time, Danny knew the potential harm that could occur to one or more of the children. He did not inform the parents, he allowed his brother to be in a position where he could become a predator. Why?
Good Question. Danny knew exactly what his brother was capable of. He didn't care. Nothing will convince me otherwise. Danny gave Tommy easy access to children, whether or not Tommy did anything or not, who knows.
In reply to Pat Williams responce earlier to a similar question he stated, "there have been no complaints filed at 3ABN." Maybe so, but who says there won't be later down the road? I have a hard time believing they watched him like a hawk as Pat claims.
It is my understanding that the church in VA, (who knew and admit that) about the allegations also did things to watch him. We seen how well that worked out.
Who knows....If Tommy does end up going to trial, and is convicted his brother belongs in the pen with him.
As is pointed out many times here their theme is "Mending broken people." However, they put children in a position where they could have very easily been broken by one man. That theme is a sham, plain and simple!! It is sad that so many people are so blind to realize what is actually going on over there in Thompsonville. Lies and deception.
Matthew 24:
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man DECEIVE you.
5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall DECEIVE many.
11. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall DECEIVE many.
24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall DECEIVE the very elect.
Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches DECEIVE the hearts of the simple.
1 Corinthians 15:33
Be not DECEIVED: evil communications corrupt good manners.
2 Timothy 3:13
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, DECEIVING, and being deceived.
-
The argument about no complaints or convictions demonstrates the greatest amount of incapacity to comprehend reality we experience in these discussions. . .
-
Let me add to this that just yesterday I was talking to a 25 year old mother on the phone - and I got her permission to tell her story.
She remembers vividly her 5th birthday. Her mother was taking care of a handicapped young man at his place and he and his friend wanted to be in on the birthday celebration. While her mother went shopping the little girl stayed with the young men. A security guard happened to come by and he reported to the police. Because the 5 year old girl refused to tell the police what had happened the case was dropped. Neither would she tell anyone else at that time.
Weeks later the 5 year old girl was riding in a car with her grandparents. She was playing with her doll on the back seat, talking to the doll as if the men where doing to the doll what they had done to her. Her grandmother gently joined her game and that got the girl to tell everything - only to the doll.
That was the only time she was willing to say what happened.
Now she has a 4 year old daughter herself whom she wants to protect. She does have a vivid memory of how these young men used baby oil on herself . . . and she is launching a campaign against ignorant people who exhibit their stupidity with claims that nobody was apprehended. She is writing a master piece.
-
In reply to Pat Williams responce earlier to a similar question he stated, "there have been no complaints filed at 3ABN." Maybe so, but who says there won't be later down the road?
On the other hand, what encouragement has 3ABN given to folks to file such complaints with 3ABN?
The 2003 letter Dryden sent Walt earned Dryden a nasty, reprehensible letter from Attorney Mike Riva, threatening to sue him. Gailon and I contacted 3ABN Board members about our concerns, and we got sued. Ervin Thomsen, Kathy Bottomley, and Trenton and Oriana Frost filed complaints with 3ABN about Leonard Westphal and got fired for their trouble after Mollie Steenson's sham investigation. I've heard that others have been treated the same way.
So why would anyone file a complaint with 3ABN?
To be fair to Pat, I think that in this thread he didn't say "at 3ABN."
-
The argument about no complaints or convictions demonstrates the greatest amount of incapacity to comprehend reality we experience in these discussions. . .
Incapacity.....I would be surprised if DS had any college or advanced education. It appears in his course of speaking he doesn't. I believe if your teaching, preaching, a higher education is a must. Maybe one can be good at reading, math, and spelling and teach it but the people skills is what comes into play and very important that college can swift out the unstable. My daughter had to write a whole paper on all different situations of how problems would be handled and it was page after page of all different scenarios before she got her point 4 graduation certificate for teaching. Other situations like this is where things can happen when unstable people just think what they can do and think they are called of God and think they know it all --to deliever their uneducated want ta bes self made positons and then use there most inner desires of overbearing, overpowering, with their lack of knowledge that they don't even comprehend that when they take on those position. Then when there are higher level of educated people that they are preaching or teaching to it is quite boring or noticeable or even embarrassing for them from the audience. But whats is so obvious is that they don't even comprehend that. That is what started and turned me off on DS. His manner of speaking and acting. He could not even remember that the ole stories was ooooooooold.
Yes, and that is another great problem is the comprehension of some posters to put facts together and acknowledge what is happening for real. Even sometimes I have to go back and reread word for word in right context. But to the protectors of this maze it goes right over their head. One can only blieve there minds are sealed with the same evil or their "gliched"...unstable and lack of college education and self made want a bes.
-
The argument about no complaints or convictions demonstrates the greatest amount of incapacity to comprehend reality we experience in these discussions. . .
Incapacity.....I would be surprised if DS had any college or advanced education. It appears in his course of speaking he doesn't. I believe if your teaching, preaching, a higher education is a must. Maybe one can be good at reading, math, and spelling and teach it but the people skills is what comes into play and very important that college can swift out the unstable.
Hmmm...that's twice now I've been told I should not be a minister.
-
Hmmm...that's twice now I've been told I should not be a minister.
For what it's worth, Duane... If God calls you He doesn't ask to see your credentials. You can simply remind any SDA who feels differently that one of the founders of their org, Ellen Gould White, didn't even graduate from elementary school.
-
You are correct, Grandma Nettie. However, it's not just an SDA problem. I hear it from everywhere. Funny thing is, people NEVER use Scripture when they say you MUST have a degree before you preach or teach. To be honest, I find it highly offensive.
-
Duane, if God has given you the gift of preaching, then you PREACH! No amount of school can make you a good minister or preacher. the Holy Spirit does that. Keep Preachin till the Lord calls you HOME!
-
In the case of Tommy Shelton and 3ABN, the person who hired him knew his problem. When Tommy worked with the children on Kid's Time, Danny knew the potential harm that could occur to one or more of the children. He did not inform the parents, he allowed his brother to be in a position where he could become a predator. Why?
Warning. You are in no position to speak for Danny Shelton and claim to know what he knew, or didn't know, or what he did or didn't do.
letter from Tommy Shelton: (dated Feb 2007)
Secondly, he states that he is doing what he can to protect young people. What young people?
I have worked for the last 6 years [at 3ABN] in an environment where there are NO young people.
(I understand that your pastor has mentioned the 3ABN Kids Time program - that these children could possibly be in danger. Kids Time hasn’t even been taped in two years, - It’s all reruns - and when it was being taped, it was in a studio two miles from were I worked and when I did go over to accompany a guest, it was in a studio filled with parents and camera people for an hour or so two or three times per season).
-
Pat, your reply to Sister is a bit evasive. Did Danny Shelton know that Tommy was a sexual predator and/or pedophile or not?
Why did Danny or Tommy or Walt not tell Principal O'Brien and Pastor Lomacang that there was a sexual predator and pedophile near the church school and conference academy satellite campus? Wasn't that wrong on their part?
You cite Tommy's open letter, which was apparently intended to motivate the Dunn Loring church to muzzle Glenn Dryden. Can Tommy's word in that letter be trusted?
-
Danny knew about Tommy. All the family knew about Tommy. How do I know? I heard it from a Shelton...
-
Timing? Lots of spinning possible when taken out of chronology.
In the case of Tommy Shelton and 3ABN, the person who hired him knew his problem. When Tommy worked with the children on Kid's Time, Danny knew the potential harm that could occur to one or more of the children. He did not inform the parents, he allowed his brother to be in a position where he could become a predator. Why?
Warning. You are in no position to speak for Danny Shelton and claim to know what he knew, or didn't know, or what he did or didn't do.
letter from Tommy Shelton: (dated Feb 2007)
Secondly, he states that he is doing what he can to protect young people. What young people?
I have worked for the last 6 years [at 3ABN] in an environment where there are NO young people.
(I understand that your pastor has mentioned the 3ABN Kids Time program - that these children could possibly be in danger. Kids Time hasn’t even been taped in two years, - It’s all reruns - and when it was being taped, it was in a studio two miles from were I worked and when I did go over to accompany a guest, it was in a studio filled with parents and camera people for an hour or so two or three times per season).
-
Danny knew about Tommy. All the family knew about Tommy. How do I know? I heard it from a Shelton...
I was told about Tommy when I was at 3ABN in 2006. I remember an employee telling me that Tommy lived in Kentucky because he wasn't allowed to live in Illinois due to pedophilia issues. I guess if the employees knew, Danny knew...
-
Danny knew about Tommy. All the family knew about Tommy. How do I know? I heard it from a Shelton...
Somebody might claim that Danny did not know that anybody else knew.
I was told about Tommy when I was at 3ABN in 2006. I remember an employee telling me that Tommy lived in Kentucky because he wasn't allowed to live in Illinois due to pedophilia issues. I guess if the employees knew, Danny knew...
-
In other words, Danny Shelton knew that Tommy Shelton was a pedophile in 2006, or before, but thought that no one else knew?
In that case he might have thought that he could keep it a secret.
-
In the case of Tommy Shelton and 3ABN, the person who hired him knew his problem. When Tommy worked with the children on Kid's Time, Danny knew the potential harm that could occur to one or more of the children. He did not inform the parents, he allowed his brother to be in a position where he could become a predator. Why?
Warning. You are in no position to speak for Danny Shelton and claim to know what he knew, or didn't know, or what he did or didn't do.
letter from Tommy Shelton: (dated Feb 2007)
Secondly, he states that he is doing what he can to protect young people. What young people?
I have worked for the last 6 years [at 3ABN] in an environment where there are NO young people.
(I understand that your pastor has mentioned the 3ABN Kids Time program - that these children could possibly be in danger. Kids Time hasn’t even been taped in two years, - It’s all reruns - and when it was being taped, it was in a studio two miles from were I worked and when I did go over to accompany a guest, it was in a studio filled with parents and camera people for an hour or so two or three times per season).
Pat, Pat, Pat,
You are not going to tell me that Danny didn't know. That is hogwash.
-
The argument about no complaints or convictions demonstrates the greatest amount of incapacity to comprehend reality we experience in these discussions. . .
Incapacity.....I would be surprised if DS had any college or advanced education. It appears in his course of speaking he doesn't. I believe if your teaching, preaching, a higher education is a must. Maybe one can be good at reading, math, and spelling and teach it but the people skills is what comes into play and very important that college can swift out the unstable.
Hmmm...that's twice now I've been told I should not be a minister.
Whooopps, Was not referring to anyone special or you Duane, but in general I believe this is how it should work. Especially in these days when people hit you at every angle one must be educated before hand not to get your self into situations. My daughter tells me of unbeliveable stuff that she has to take care of not only with students but the parents, She is quite smarter then I could be as her handling of matters I could not think of. The school (public) uses her a lot to deal with situations. I might add that when she attended the University that her private studies were her books she included to education was EGW. She wrote alot on making that her way to be and she is an outstanding teacher. I find that one of the greatest satisfactons in life Duane is to be a people observer and have a talent that knows how to help someone in the right way and help them in what ever is possible to do. It's like the work of an ant.... ;) I think you have had now experience to do much for many.
-
Well I'm certainly glad I have your approval.
-
Well I'm certainly glad I have your approval.
:amen:
-
Common sense and trust in the Divnine is worth more than a College degree.
Well I'm certainly glad I have your approval.
:amen:
-
I am not SDA, I am Southern baptist. In the Southern baptist association I belong too, they do not require you to have an education. However, some churches may require it, but the association does not.
:ROFL: :ROFL: edited- to change searches to churches. Lol.
-
That is why I said, that you might not wasnt to hear it. If proper help and healing is applied then the abused, do not abuse others. However, that seems to be a big "IF", because of the element of shame, etc. It is not an excuse, because bad bahavior should never be tolerated, no matter the circumstnace. It can, however, explain the why.
No Duane you don't sound cold,, because he is old and more than grown, it was TS and his family's responsibility to get him the help he needed when they first discover there was a problem. instead of the whole lot of them going into deep denial The "why" definitely does NOT have anything to do with any disciplinary action TS needs to recieved because of his offenses. He needs to pay the full consequences for his behavior.
Here's the thing, Di. This may sound cold, but I really DON'T CARE if Tommy was abused a a child. I was abused as a young adult, Alex was abused as a child as was the other victim in VA. We're not going around abusing others. Prior abuse is no excuse, it's a cop out used by people who care about no one but themselves.
[/quote]
-
That is why I said, that you might not wasnt to hear it. If proper help and healing is applied then the abused, do not abuse others. However, that seems to be a big "IF", because of the element of shame, etc. It is not an excuse, because bad bahavior should never be tolerated, no matter the circumstnace. It can, however, explain the why.
No Duane you don't sound cold,, because he is old and more than grown, it was TS and his family's responsibility to get him the help he needed when they first discover there was a problem. instead of the whole lot of them going into deep denial The "why" definitely does NOT have anything to do with any disciplinary action TS needs to recieved because of his offenses. He needs to pay the full consequences for his behavior.
Here's the thing, Di. This may sound cold, but I really DON'T CARE if Tommy was abused a a child. I was abused as a young adult, Alex was abused as a child as was the other victim in VA. We're not going around abusing others. Prior abuse is no excuse, it's a cop out used by people who care about no one but themselves.
[/quote]
Is there actually any proof that TS was even abused, and if so was it sexually?
-
Sorry, Duane, but I think we disagree on this. I believe someone should have a higher education than that they are teaching.
In public school, run by people with college degrees, my achievement test scores were falling. I started attending Ezra Christian School, run by people with high school diplomas, and my test scores were off the chart when I graduated. The numbers speak for themselves.
Well, I'm glad that it worked for you, I really am. However, from what I have been told the school wasn't the best ran when Alex went there. That is why he went to public school.
Could that be because Glen Dryden ran the school at that time and kicked Alex out?
-
Sorry, Duane, but I think we disagree on this. I believe someone should have a higher education than that they are teaching.
In public school, run by people with college degrees, my achievement test scores were falling. I started attending Ezra Christian School, run by people with high school diplomas, and my test scores were off the chart when I graduated. The numbers speak for themselves.
Well, I'm glad that it worked for you, I really am. However, from what I have been told the school wasn't the best ran when Alex went there. That is why he went to public school.
Could that be because Glen Dryden ran the school at that time and kicked Alex out?
I'm sorry, but.. ROFL
-
In the case of Tommy Shelton and 3ABN, the person who hired him knew his problem. When Tommy worked with the children on Kid's Time, Danny knew the potential harm that could occur to one or more of the children. He did not inform the parents, he allowed his brother to be in a position where he could become a predator. Why?
Warning. You are in no position to speak for Danny Shelton and claim to know what he knew, or didn't know, or what he did or didn't do.
letter from Tommy Shelton: (dated Feb 2007)
Secondly, he states that he is doing what he can to protect young people. What young people?
I have worked for the last 6 years [at 3ABN] in an environment where there are NO young people.
(I understand that your pastor has mentioned the 3ABN Kids Time program - that these children could possibly be in danger. Kids Time hasn’t even been taped in two years, - It’s all reruns - and when it was being taped, it was in a studio two miles from were I worked and when I did go over to accompany a guest, it was in a studio filled with parents and camera people for an hour or so two or three times per season).
Pat, Pat, Pat,
You are not going to tell me that Danny didn't know. That is hogwash.
Adam,
I take it you know Danny Shelton personally? No you don't so how can you talk as if you have an intelligent opinion on the matter when you no nothing about 3abn, Danny or anything else. You show your ignorance when you say Tommy had easy access to children at 3abn. That says a lot. Anyone, and I mean anyone that has ever been to a kids time production would laugh you out of town. There is a control room full of people who see everything through the camera's eyes. There is a crew out on the set. There are parents everywhere..on the set and off. The kids that are off the set are with their parents until their turn comes to be on the set. The kids that are on the set are being taped on television. The Mitcheff sisters are there doing the programs. There are so many people you can't turn around. Tommy's involvment was for the Mitcheffs to call him and ask him to come on the set and play a song for a kid to sing. Get it? Come on the set, where the kid, the crew, the Mitcheffs and the Control room are all watching, sit down at the piano, play the song, the floor director says Cut, and Tommy leaves. Had any of you ever been there you might, might, have an opinion but since you haven't been there you have no credibility in your opinions that are based on nothing.
-
Danny knew about Tommy. All the family knew about Tommy. How do I know? I heard it from a Shelton...
Sister, it is well past the time for your slander, defamation and lies comes to an end. Yes we all know you "heard it from a Shelton" which we know is Linda. On the slim chance that it wasn't Linda, there are literally hundreds of Shelton first cousins, 2nd cousins, 3rd cousins who may or may not have the name Shelton and because of jealousy or some other motive may actually tell you something that isn't true! Can you believe it? There are people that actually lie about such things. You should know you are an expert.
*********************************************
*********************************************
*********************************************
RED HAT ON
This poster was banned for one week due to gross violation of Forum Rules.
RED HAT OFF
-
How sad. Rolling on the floor laughing out loud over a child who was messed up by being molested by a pastor/in-law getting kicked out of school. Would you be rolling on the floor laughing out loud over that if he hadn't filed charges? If Tommy hadn't pled guilty to molesting him? Again, the consistent pattern of laughing at, making fun of, attacking, trying to tear down, and otherwise destroy victims of child molestation who say something.
Sorry, Duane, but I think we disagree on this. I believe someone should have a higher education than that they are teaching.
In public school, run by people with college degrees, my achievement test scores were falling. I started attending Ezra Christian School, run by people with high school diplomas, and my test scores were off the chart when I graduated. The numbers speak for themselves.
Well, I'm glad that it worked for you, I really am. However, from what I have been told the school wasn't the best ran when Alex went there. That is why he went to public school.
Could that be because Glen Dryden ran the school at that time and kicked Alex out?
I'm sorry, but.. ROFL
-
Alex, I hope you know that for most normal humans, a child's pain is not high entertainment and cause to roll on the floor laughing. Even in ancient Rome where the deaths of thousands were entertainment, they did not sink so low as to be entertained by watching kids get hurt. There are a few messed up individuals out there who will laugh at, and enjoy your pain, and who will continue trying to extend and enhance it, but they are not society at large, they are a strange and marginal exception.
-
Sam,
I know you are angry, but now you are becoming as vindictive as you claim Sister has been. Is this now a game of getting even?
-
Well I'm certainly glad I have your approval.
Well, Duane it does take tremendous study to make sure what you preach is truly correct or the part of false prophets come into play, so that is very serious business to take on "clergy". I do know some of the best preachers have been excepted into SDA also without the college credentials. But those boys have put their life into study first and the congregation put them in because of their diligence in divine understanding starting to teach in SS. I learned much more from these persons. There style comes from inspiration. In fact as some of our colleges are starting to act with the "Creation" theory it just might be better if a true blue preach. Oh, and not sure how you meant that Duane "my approval" lol..... mine does not make a hill of beans....although I am sick of canning beans and finally having a rain break and maybe the beans will not come back this year. lol canned about 250 myself and haven't used last years yet. But I'm ready for the Economy outcome. lol lol fed and canned some for the neighbors too. even though I'm older they are in chairs with oxygen and can't work. Guess that is the consequences of smoking and drinking most of their lives. They now are changing, watching us, and want to be around us. One of them don't eat pork anymore. It's been fun and different even though I miss my farm. So your young and have a future to choose yet and hope the best for you what ever it is.
-
Sorry, Duane, but I think we disagree on this. I believe someone should have a higher education than that they are teaching.
In public school, run by people with college degrees, my achievement test scores were falling. I started attending Ezra Christian School, run by people with high school diplomas, and my test scores were off the chart when I graduated. The numbers speak for themselves.
Well, I'm glad that it worked for you, I really am. However, from what I have been told the school wasn't the best ran when Alex went there. That is why he went to public school.
Could that be because Glen Dryden ran the school at that time and kicked Alex out?
You liar. He did not and I'm sure he will confirm that is not true. Glenn Dryden did not kick me out as you claim. So move on you low life coward. My parents pulled me out and home-schooled me then I attended the Public school WHICH WAS MY CHOICE. If you truely knew me as well as you spew lies out you would know that. You really need to learn to keep your mouth shut about things which you have no clue.
Why don't someone contact Glenn Dryden and ask him if what Sam says is true? Trust me you will not get the same story you just got from Sam.
Sam- Keep your lies and slander up....please....
-
Danny knew about Tommy. All the family knew about Tommy. How do I know? I heard it from a Shelton...
Sister, it is well past the time for your slander, defamation and lies comes to an end. Yes we all know you "heard it from a Shelton" which we know is Linda. On the slim chance that it wasn't Linda, there are literally hundreds of Shelton first cousins, 2nd cousins, 3rd cousins who may or may not have the name Shelton and because of jealousy or some other motive may actually tell you something that isn't true! Can you believe it? There are people that actually lie about such things. You should know you are an expert.
*******************************************
*******************************************
*******************************************
Sam if anyone is a slanderer and liar it is you. You went to far slandering and lying on my mother. Keep it up your just adding fuel to the fire. Watch and see....
-
From where I am sitting, your melodrama and over reaction and false judgment is what is sad, but hardly unusual...
How sad. Rolling on the floor laughing out loud over a child who was messed up by being molested by a pastor/in-law getting kicked out of school. Would you be rolling on the floor laughing out loud over that if he hadn't filed charges? If Tommy hadn't pled guilty to molesting him? Again, the consistent pattern of laughing at, making fun of, attacking, trying to tear down, and otherwise destroy victims of child molestation who say something.
Sorry, Duane, but I think we disagree on this. I believe someone should have a higher education than that they are teaching.
In public school, run by people with college degrees, my achievement test scores were falling. I started attending Ezra Christian School, run by people with high school diplomas, and my test scores were off the chart when I graduated. The numbers speak for themselves.
Well, I'm glad that it worked for you, I really am. However, from what I have been told the school wasn't the best ran when Alex went there. That is why he went to public school.
Could that be because Glen Dryden ran the school at that time and kicked Alex out?
I'm sorry, but.. ROFL
-
Sam-- I will no longer even treat you as a human or show you any thought at all. Until you are man enough to stop hiding like a coward. If you have enough gull to come on here and post your attacks (lies) you should be man enough to reveal yourself. Until then in my eyes you are nothing but subhuman garbage.
Hopefully the garbage truck rolls in soon because your stench is getting old.
-
Danny knew about Tommy. All the family knew about Tommy. How do I know? I heard it from a Shelton...
Sister, it is well past the time for your slander, defamation and lies comes to an end. Yes we all know you "heard it from a Shelton" which we know is Linda. On the slim chance that it wasn't Linda, there are literally hundreds of Shelton first cousins, 2nd cousins, 3rd cousins who may or may not have the name Shelton and because of jealousy or some other motive may actually tell you something that isn't true! Can you believe it? There are people that actually lie about such things. You should know you are an expert.
*****************************************
*****************************************
*****************************************
I have spent some hours on and with people who live on the street where the Shelton kids grew up in West Frankfurt. It is amazing what you can find out in a few hours in certain localities. I discovered quite a bit there which did not come from Linda. You have a certain way of blaming which might blow straight in your face again. Linda is not the only person who has known a certain Mr. Danny Shelton.
-
Sam,
You should save yourself some shame as I am very sure educated people in all countries are very aware that 3abn has had obscene damages done to and by theirselves. Otherwise there would be no saga, no documents, no divorce, no adultery, no remarriage and divorce again, no DNA testing or reason for it and no moleststation of TS or TS on 3abn. and now that concocted letter from TS. What a bunch of stuff. and he had followers that read this stuff - no wonder a problem here. They believed this stuff. After all if they would have shun all appearances of evil nothing could have been said, viewed told or seen. But too many :horse: ate too much feed and there it was all showing on the ground. :hot: and the :rabbit: s hopping down all different trails with the :beagle: hounds running in hot pursuit :hot: over the "misuse of women, victims and funds". No Christian wanted to destroy 3abn as their honest wishes was for it to go to all the world. But :rabbit: jumped into the wrong bunny nest. and the rest is history....as the bed bugs run for covers.
This post is just as looney as Your post is.
-
And as usual, your heart for victims and those who have had to endure a lot is a sad under reaction to what normal people have, and in your words "hardly unusual..." What's worse, the perpetual attacks on the victims of a pastor who has admitted to victimizing the very people you consistently attack for reacting to what he did to them are the reflection of something most normal people find very disturbing... but again, hardly unusual.
From where I am sitting, your melodrama and over reaction and false judgment is what is sad, but hardly unusual...
-
And btw, Pat, I have been quite amused at the new names you and Nosirmyzing chose. Thats ok, I'm sure that the eagles will soar and spot the critters that have tried to use what will worry and cause ulcers or try to make their prey rethink their resolve. Thats what the eagles do. They spot and catch. So we can all sit back and watch as they do their thing with the critters who try to intimidate with the things that are close to the prey. I am sometimes reminded of Stockholm as people are driven toward the end light. Of course in the light Stockholm is harder to achieve than it is in confines.
-
In the case of Tommy Shelton and 3ABN, the person who hired him knew his problem. When Tommy worked with the children on Kid's Time, Danny knew the potential harm that could occur to one or more of the children. He did not inform the parents, he allowed his brother to be in a position where he could become a predator. Why?
Warning. You are in no position to speak for Danny Shelton and claim to know what he knew, or didn't know, or what he did or didn't do.
letter from Tommy Shelton: (dated Feb 2007)
Secondly, he states that he is doing what he can to protect young people. What young people?
I have worked for the last 6 years [at 3ABN] in an environment where there are NO young people.
(I understand that your pastor has mentioned the 3ABN Kids Time program - that these children could possibly be in danger. Kids Time hasn’t even been taped in two years, - It’s all reruns - and when it was being taped, it was in a studio two miles from were I worked and when I did go over to accompany a guest, it was in a studio filled with parents and camera people for an hour or so two or three times per season).
Pat, Pat, Pat,
You are not going to tell me that Danny didn't know. That is hogwash.
Adam,
I take it you know Danny Shelton personally? No you don't so how can you talk as if you have an intelligent opinion on the matter when you no nothing about 3abn, Danny or anything else. You show your ignorance when you say Tommy had easy access to children at 3abn. That says a lot. Anyone, and I mean anyone that has ever been to a kids time production would laugh you out of town. There is a control room full of people who see everything through the camera's eyes. There is a crew out on the set. There are parents everywhere..on the set and off. The kids that are off the set are with their parents until their turn comes to be on the set. The kids that are on the set are being taped on television. The Mitcheff sisters are there doing the programs. There are so many people you can't turn around. Tommy's involvment was for the Mitcheffs to call him and ask him to come on the set and play a song for a kid to sing. Get it? Come on the set, where the kid, the crew, the Mitcheffs and the Control room are all watching, sit down at the piano, play the song, the floor director says Cut, and Tommy leaves. Had any of you ever been there you might, might, have an opinion but since you haven't been there you have no credibility in your opinions that are based on nothing.
And I should believe anything you say, why? You're a proven liar. You have some NERVE coming on here calling anyone else a liar, Sam! There is no other words to describe you except a cowardly full of crap, snake. Until you learn the difference between a lie and actuality, Just shut up.
-
Let Sam, Pat, and the others keep it up. In the end, the eagles will roar and then the dining begins.
Danny knew about Tommy. All the family knew about Tommy. How do I know? I heard it from a Shelton...
Sister, it is well past the time for your slander, defamation and lies comes to an end. Yes we all know you "heard it from a Shelton" which we know is Linda. On the slim chance that it wasn't Linda, there are literally hundreds of Shelton first cousins, 2nd cousins, 3rd cousins who may or may not have the name Shelton and because of jealousy or some other motive may actually tell you something that isn't true! Can you believe it? There are people that actually lie about such things. You should know you are an expert.
*******************************************
*******************************************
*******************************************
Sam if anyone is a slanderer and liar it is you. You went to far slandering and lying on my mother. Keep it up your just adding fuel to the fire. Watch and see....
-
And btw, Pat, I have been quite amused at the new names you and Nosirmyzing chose. Thats ok, I'm sure that the eagles will soar and spot the critters that have tried to use what will worry and cause ulcers or try to make their prey rethink their resolve. Thats what the eagles do. They spot and catch. So we can all sit back and watch as they do their thing with the critters who try to intimidate with the things that are close to the prey. I am sometimes reminded of Stockholm as people are driven toward the end light. Of course in the light Stockholm is harder to achieve than it is in confines.
I'm not sure I would use the term amused but I find it interesting that they chose names that are unisex and common.
-
Again, Adam, let not your heart be troubled. This is a simple cult specimen exhibiting the behaviours it has been cultured for. As a creature of a cult variety it is simply doing what comes natural to it. Its environment and input have molded this odd creature you see and its weird outbursts are only the common thing where it comes from. What you see is a good example of what some strange little cults produce. If, some day, you decide to do a documentary on the strange and weird, you will have lots of material just from that one little specimen.
And I should believe anything you say, why? You're a proven liar. You have some NERVE coming on here calling anyone else a liar, Sam! There is no other words to describe you except a cowardly full of crap, snake. Until you learn the difference between a lie and actuality, Just shut up.
Changed formatting only
-
Your right, George. He's still a coward.
Sam- You better hope I NEVER meet you in person, because I would have a hard time not knocking you on your tail. :o
-
No proof whatsoever, just a suspicion on my part, because of the way things generally happen in these abuse cases, both sexual and physical.
I am going to apologize for any misunderstanding my comment may have caused, before even reading subsequent posts........... :dunno:
-
3D or as you go by now "Pat Williams" I see you are back on the forums again. From what I can see you had your last post as 3D on July 13 then you were back on again under your new name around July 19. I am just curious where you were during those 6 days? My curiosity is peaked because it is during some of that time frame that TS was in the hospital. Also, what is up with the name change. I am inclined to presume that that is not your real name either.
I guess "Pat" the reason I am being so presumptuous is because you were calling Alex Walker out by name accusing others of being him when you yourself are not willing to use your own name. It does make others wonder as to your true identity.
I also noticed that Sam didn't post from July 13 to 20 and then on the July 21 started posting again.
Is it just me or do others find this interesting. I wonder if these two posters are immediate family members of TS. It would sure make a lot of sense if that were the case. ???????????????????????? The mystery continues...................
-
waitingforjustice,
that is really good observance but also their details on here are intimate too many times for your guess to be not correct.
-
3D or as you go by now "Pat Williams" I see you are back on the forums again. From what I can see you had your last post as 3D on July 13 then you were back on again under your new name around July 19. I am just curious where you were during those 6 days? My curiosity is peaked because it is during some of that time frame that TS was in the hospital. Also, what is up with the name change. I am inclined to presume that that is not your real name either.
I guess "Pat" the reason I am being so presumptuous is because you were calling Alex Walker out by name accusing others of being him when you yourself are not willing to use your own name. It does make others wonder as to your true identity.
I also noticed that Sam didn't post from July 13 to 20 and then on the July 21 started posting again.
Is it just me or do others find this interesting. I wonder if these two posters are immediate family members of TS. It would sure make a lot of sense if that were the case. ???????????????????????? The mystery continues...................
Interesting observation!
-
waitingforjustice, that is really good observance but also their details on here are intimate too many times for your guess to be not correct.
Yes, wondering. . .
-
Just another incident of "foot in mouth disease" on my part. I would also like to apologize for stating that Duane said that he was abused by TS when he was a minor. I have come to the knowledge that is part of my statements were not true.
Having said that, I stick by the rest of my statements that even though the actual sexual abuse was committed once Duace was the "age of consent"(this is also a joke to me because unless we are talking about the age of 21, I know of no parent who would feel better about something like this happening to their child...because they were 18. BTJM), the emotional and mental abuse started long before then.
Once again, sorry for mistakenly misrepresenting the truth, and any confusion that misstatements created.
No proof whatsoever, just a suspicion on my part, because of the way things generally happen in these abuse cases, both sexual and physical.
I am going to apologize for any misunderstanding my comment may have caused, before even reading subsequent posts........... :dunno:
-
Fact of the matter is Duane was not the only one who was abused by this animal. (Yes, Lilly I call em' like I see em') There was another boy who was overage who was also abused by Tommy.
Anyone who don't think that abuse can happen whether your the age of consent or not really needs help! What is even more sick and disgusting is you defend this man when he has abused YOUNG BOYS! Young boys who don't even know what sex is. May God forgive you before it's everlasting to late!
Hell is real people. You are condoning acts that the Bible speaks against, sexual immorality. 1 Thessalonians 4. It also clearly states that God is the avenger!
-
It is not at all unusual for adults to be led into thing that they would normally never consider when the leader is charismatic and convincing. In Jonestown, Guiana almost 1,000 people drank cianide. Parents held their kids down so that they could be given lethal injections. Before that incident, men subjected themselves to the sexual depravities Jim Jones required of them, and wanted to die rather than live with what they felt forced to do. Men gave up their wives and daughters to him. Parents gave up their children to Jones for punishment and torture... these were all normal people who fell under the spell of a leader and their thoughts and actions were led by him into very abnormal areas. He is a drastic example, but this is something that happens every day to thousands of adults around the world.
-
There ya go!!!! I am not sure why they don't get this about leaders who abuse their positions of authority. It doens't even have to get to the jones/koresh state either. There is a whole lot of abuse long before you get to that point.
It is not at all unusual for adults to be led into thing that they would normally never consider when the leader is charismatic and convincing. In Jonestown, Guiana almost 1,000 people drank cianide. Parents held their kids down so that they could be given lethal injections. Before that incident, men subjected themselves to the sexual depravities Jim Jones required of them, and wanted to die rather than live with what they felt forced to do. Men gave up their wives and daughters to him. Parents gave up their children to Jones for punishment and torture... these were all normal people who fell under the spell of a leader and their thoughts and actions were led by him into very abnormal areas. He is a drastic example, but this is something that happens every day to thousands of adults around the world.
-
What they fail to realize is that even if what they say about me or anyone else was true, Tommy still committed the abuse. I do notice they've pretty much stopped proclaiming him innocent. Where's Junebug these days? Miss I know "for a fact" Tommy will be found innocent. She still hasn't retracted that statement.
-
What they fail to realize is that even if what they say about me or anyone else was true, Tommy still committed the abuse. I do notice they've pretty much stopped proclaiming him innocent. Where's Junebug these days? Miss I know "for a fact" Tommy will be found innocent. She still hasn't retracted that statement.
Lol! She changed her name too, Duane. :ROFL: :ROFL: It's no longer "Junebug". She is now known as "Mary Sue Smith." :ROFL:
-
Another genetic name. The thing is, I know who she is, and het name isn't Mary. Hey Alex, got a cousin named Mary Smith?
-
Where did all the Danny clones go? Did they get the info they wanted to get and thus have no reason to post again?
I'd like to point out that the purpose of this thread was to give members of the Shelton family, including Tommy, an opportunity to post their support for Tommy's victims. That seemed appropriate given the intense efforts being made by folks like 3ABN_Defender (who was actually undermining 3ABN) aka Pat Williams aka ??? to attack Tommy's victims.
How come we are on page 8 and apparently not one Shelton has posted their support? What's wrong?
Jim Gilley, Mollie Steenson, Brenda Walsh, John Lomacang, C.A. Murray, and others are free to take up the slack and post their support of Tommy's victims, if not one Shelton is willing to do so.
-
Whenever there are longstanding addictions including sexual addictions there are usually enablers - family, friends or supporters who for one reason or another protect the addict from the consequences of his/her own actions. It can be very difficult for these people to see their actions in protecting the addict as anything other than kind.
In fact, these people are part of the problem. It can be difficult for them to see victims of the addict as victims, rather their sympathy is with the addict who sees himself/herself as a victim. They are not helping the victims of the addict by their actions and they are definitely not helping the addict.
-
Oh my!. ITA Adam. I also realize the need for accuracy and total truth in each situation. Those who wish to find fault tend to focus on those details that maybe less truth, even though they don't change the big picture. That is why I totally understood why I needed to apologize and correct my statements.
TS is still an abuser of young boys and young men, of which he has plead guilty. He was in a position of authority which he abused and used to satisfy his own sick purposes.
Fact of the matter is Duane was not the only one who was abused by this animal. (Yes, Lilly I call em' like I see em') There was another boy who was overage who was also abused by Tommy.
Anyone who don't think that abuse can happen whether your the age of consent or not really needs help! What is even more sick and disgusting is you defend this man when he has abused YOUNG BOYS! Young boys who don't even know what sex is. May God forgive you before it's everlasting to late!
Hell is real people. You are condoning acts that the Bible speaks against, sexual immorality. 1 Thessalonians 4. It also clearly states that God is the avenger!
-
Just one month left before Tommy's sentencing. And yet even though more than a month has gone by since Tommy pled guilty, not one Shelton has stopped by this thread to express their support.
Where's Danny at a time like this? How about Ronnie? Kenny? Tammy? Trent? Brad? How come the stark silence?
Come! Do what you can to mend broken people! Express your support for the victims of Tommy Shelton!
-
Another genetic name. The thing is, I know who she is, and het name isn't Mary. Hey Alex, got a cousin named Mary Smith?
OOps. Just noticed my typo. Genetic should actually be generic. lol
-
Just one month left before Tommy's sentencing. And yet even though more than a month has gone by since Tommy pled guilty, not one Shelton has stopped by this thread to express their support.
Where's Danny at a time like this? How about Ronnie? Kenny? Tammy? Trent? Brad? How come the stark silence?
Come! Do what you can to mend broken people! Express your support for the victims of Tommy Shelton!
They can't Bob cause they are part of it... Only if they never knew it could they do it!!
-
Just one month left before Tommy's sentencing. And yet even though more than a month has gone by since Tommy pled guilty, not one Shelton has stopped by this thread to express their support.
Where's Danny at a time like this? How about Ronnie? Kenny? Tammy? Trent? Brad? How come the stark silence?
Come! Do what you can to mend broken people! Express your support for the victims of Tommy Shelton!
They can't Bob cause they are part of it... Only if they never knew it could they do it!!
Excellent point
-
.......And Bob...you knew when you started this thread that none would show up on this thread. You can't force them. This thing is between them and God, if and when they get that striaght then the proper apologies will happen for the victims......and you will have to be ready for those apologies to take place in the proper forum, and not on the world wide web.
Just one month left before Tommy's sentencing. And yet even though more than a month has gone by since Tommy pled guilty, not one Shelton has stopped by this thread to express their support.
Where's Danny at a time like this? How about Ronnie? Kenny? Tammy? Trent? Brad? How come the stark silence?
Come! Do what you can to mend broken people! Express your support for the victims of Tommy Shelton!
-
.......And Bob...you knew when you started this thread that none would show up on this thread.
No, I did not. Call me naive if you want.
You can't force them.
True.
This thing is between them and God, if and when they get that striaght then the proper apologies will happen for the victims......
Correct.
and you will have to be ready for those apologies to take place in the proper forum, and not on the world wide web.
In such a public matter, public support is more than fitting, and the internet is as good a place as any for public support.
But there are certainly other ways. For those who like to compare Danny to David, David wrote his public apology into the national hymnal. If Danny were to emulate David's response, he could think of producing a special CD containing a song of apology ... with all proceeds from the sale of it going to a victims' fund, not his pocket.
I would be happy to promote the sale of such a CD.
-
Apology from Danny Shelton? Have you people lost your minds? Danny will never believe that he has done anything wrong and neither will Tommy. He lives on a different plane than any of us. He is not bound by any law or any doctrine. The only rule he abides by is what pays and promotes him.
-
Why do you believe that God has only so many ways He resolves an issue? That is not even biblical. We have 66 books where it shows God dealing with people(individuals or a group) on a case by case basis. He definitely is not obligated to allow anyone to see the repentance and/or restoration of any one of His children. Especially to satisfy those who are only interested in seeing them destroyed by their sins, and not the least bit interested in their restoration as a brother or sister in Christ. He didn't(doesn't) do you like that, right? How many of your sins, forgiveness, and restoration from that sin has He kept quiet?......rhetorical question only.
David's sins were made public because David himself brought them to light by turning them into Psalms(songs). David was not obligated to do so, neither is Danny. We see the blessings that have come from David's Testimonies. That might not be the path God wants for Danny. God did not, in more modoren slang, bust David out. We know about them now, because somebody wrote about them...sometimes later...but those Psalms were written as David "went through".
In such a public matter, public support is more than fitting, and the internet is as good a place as any for public support.
But there are certainly other ways. For those who like to compare Danny to David, David wrote his public apology into the national hymnal. If Danny were to emulate David's response, he could think of producing a special CD containing a song of apology ... with all proceeds from the sale of it going to a victims' fund, not his pocket.
I would be happy to promote the sale of such a CD.
-
Di, according to the Bible, confession is an absolute requirement for forgiveness of sin. And sins of a public character should be publicly confessed:
True confession is always of a specific character, and acknowledges particular sins. They may be of such a nature as to be brought before God only; they may be wrongs that should be confessed to individuals who have suffered injury through them; or they may be of a public character, and should then be as publicly confessed. But all confession should be definite and to the point, acknowledging the very sins of which you are guilty. (SC 38)
David's sins were made public because David himself brought them to light by turning them into Psalms(songs).
Not true. Before Nathan ever went to David, we are told that David's sin became known:
For the sake of Israel also there was a necessity for God to interpose. As time passed on, David's sin toward Bathsheba became known, and suspicion was excited that he had planned the death of Uriah. The Lord was dishonored. He had favored and exalted David, and David's sin misrepresented the character of God and cast reproach upon His name. It tended to lower the standard of godliness in Israel, to lessen in many minds the abhorrence of sin; while those who did not love and fear God were by it emboldened in transgression. (PP 720)
Similarly, God has been dishonored and His character misrepresented, the standard of godliness in Adventism lowered, and the abhorrence of sin lessened in many minds. Those who do not love and fear God have been emboldened in molesting children, divorcing without biblical grounds, committing incest, receiving kickbacks, and using donations to personally profit.
Now if Danny as horsethief claims will never apologize, if he is unwilling to commit his repentance and apology to music like David did, then may no one ever again dare compare Danny Shelton to King David, since the two have very little in common.
-
It is quite interesting that most of our media these days are carrying stories connected with a similar tale within the Lutheran Church. Seems like new happenings occur with every newscast. There are both differences and similarities to what AT has been dealing with. In our country the Evangelical Lutheran Church is the official state religion although there is religious freedom for any other religion.
Because the Lutheran Church has not been completely open and revealed everything about sexual mistakes of pastors and officials, members of our government are talking about leaving the Church.
A former Bishop of the Lutheran Church died a couple of years ago. More and more is now being revealed about his life and conduct. Seems like he was running a cult within his church where many people adored and followed him in everything. Seems like he was a super salesman who could convince the majority of people that he was completely innocent of any accusation against him.
About 1996 women came forward accusing him of sexual misconduct towards them when they had come to him as their pastor for counseling. Just last night we saw a rerun of TV interviews with him from 1996 where he denied any such charges as a falsehood. One of his argument was that when he heard those accusations he had checked his official diary and the name of one particular female accuser was not even listed there. It sounded as if he would have made a list of all of his sins, and since those sins were not listed he was innocent. The strange thing about it is that at that time members of his "cult" accepted his explanation as the plain truth.
There seems to be many similarities in how he was treated by his adherents to the wording and arguments we have read here on AT by Danny and Tommy Shelton's defenders.
About a week ago a daughter of the former bishop appeared before a meeting of pastors and leaders in the Lutheran Church, and since then a report of her statements have reached the media. She made it plain that her own father had molested her sexually, his own daughter, since she was a little girl. It appears like she did this to support the women who had, at first, notified other church officials in vain.
Today my sister-in-law told me that she knows the widow of the condemned bishop because she is a neighbor to her sister-in-law. She tells me that both this woman and her daughters are exceptionally loving persons and devoted Christians.
There is an uprising in the Lutheran Church these days. People are demanding greater openness and public confessions. One Lutheran parson declared recently that he believed confessions to a pastor should be confidential and that the pastor should not reveal molestation of children to the police. The media reveal that he had a meeting with the present Bishop today, and that the Bishop convinced him that he was mistaken, so in the evening news this pastor declared that he understands he has to follow the laws of his country.
In these discussions Lutheran church leaders have also declared that the standards of a Christian Church stands far above the laws of the land, which means that even if the Supreme Court clears a clergyman as innocent he still has to stand before the Throne of God and that the Church must judge a pastor according to a higher moral code than the demands of the civil laws of the land.
It there anything we can learn from these present tumults within the Lutheran Church of Iceland?
-
I find it offensive that there is a comparison of the Biblical David to Danny Shelton. I don't hold Danny beyond redemption, but he has shown no remorse for his actions. David was terribly remorseful for his sins surrounding Bathsheba. Danny thinks he was acting in accordance to scripture by living in sin.
-
God is dishonored each time anyone of us sins. That is not exclusive to those who make the 6 o'clock news. There is someone who witnesses most of our sins, for which we are not being a positive or even decent witness for Him.
You keep coming back to that one incident, but that is not the only time David was wrong, and sinned. We know that from the Psalms themselves. But what you say is true. I am sure that sin was defintiely public, as it in volved taking the man's wife and getting her pregnant, i am sure somebody noticed her at the palace. We can add to that David's propensity for collecting wicves and concubines(sp). So it was the very nature of the sin itself that was public.
Now this still does not mean that Danny's repentance has to be public. The Bible also says to "confess your sins to God and your faults to one another". The other problem with this is that the only "sin" or isntance of "sins" for Danny was that entire dumping his wife for a younger woman, mid-life crisis, losing his mind type thing.....I believe he does owe an apology to Linda, Brandy, the 3ABN board, GC, the 3ABN supporters for not living up to the ministry he was preaching. However, all else he has been accused of was brought to the "light" and there is some argument was to whether a whole lot of it is true. Those "faults" were not public until some decided that since he tossed Linda, every breath he breathes must be iniquity. If he truly misappropriated, laundered and out right stole funds, then he does owe an apology to his supporters and should pay the legal ramifications.
That being said, the thing you keep asking for is that you, personally get to witness "Danny get his", and that is not your place. You have no right, and it is not a wise thing to ask. This is not something you should be harboring in your heart.
Bob, you did know they weren't going to come to this thread and express support for the vicitms while they maintain that there are no victims, and proclaim innocence that even TS does not. Those who come here to claim Ts is innocent get that from somehwere. Some of them still don't know him personally, or at least didnt' during the time of his offenses, but they make the claim with too much authority for it to simple be their own personal opinion.
Di, according to the Bible, confession is an absolute requirement for forgiveness of sin. And sins of a public character should be publicly confessed:
True confession is always of a specific character, and acknowledges particular sins. They may be of such a nature as to be brought before God only; they may be wrongs that should be confessed to individuals who have suffered injury through them; or they may be of a public character, and should then be as publicly confessed. But all confession should be definite and to the point, acknowledging the very sins of which you are guilty. (SC 38)
Not true. Before Nathan ever went to David, we are told that David's sin became known:
For the sake of Israel also there was a necessity for God to interpose. As time passed on, David's sin toward Bathsheba became known, and suspicion was excited that he had planned the death of Uriah. The Lord was dishonored. He had favored and exalted David, and David's sin misrepresented the character of God and cast reproach upon His name. It tended to lower the standard of godliness in Israel, to lessen in many minds the abhorrence of sin; while those who did not love and fear God were by it emboldened in transgression. (PP 720)
Similarly, God has been dishonored and His character misrepresented, the standard of godliness in Adventism lowered, and the abhorrence of sin lessened in many minds. Those who do not love and fear God have been emboldened in molesting children, divorcing without biblical grounds, committing incest, receiving kickbacks, and using donations to personally profit.
Now if Danny as horsethief claims will never apologize, if he is unwilling to commit his repentance and apology to music like David did, then may no one ever again dare compare Danny Shelton to King David, since the two have very little in common.
-
Yes he was very remorseful....once he was caught..............Danny hasn't wrote any Psalms we don't knwo that he is remorseful or not...whether he has confessed or not. You can't assume because you have seen or heard it, it hasn't been done.
I find it offensive that there is a comparison of the Biblical David to Danny Shelton. I don't hold Danny beyond redemption, but he has shown no remorse for his actions. David was terribly remorseful for his sins surrounding Bathsheba. Danny thinks he was acting in accordance to scripture by living in sin.
-
I find it offensive that there is a comparison of the Biblical David to Danny Shelton.
So do I.
Yes he was very remorseful....once he was caught..............Danny hasn't wrote any Psalms we don't knwo that he is remorseful or not...whether he has confessed or not. You can't assume because you have seen or heard it, it hasn't been done.
I can personally tell you that Danny has never confessed to me the wrong he has personally done to me, as Scripture requires. I have received not one hint of an apology.
-
However, all else he has been accused of was brought to the "light" and there is some argument was to whether a whole lot of it is true.
Please be specific as to what there is question about.
Bob, you did know they weren't going to come to this thread and express support for the vicitms while they maintain that there are no victims, and proclaim innocence that even TS does not.
No, I did not know.
-
We can kick around our notions about repentance and true repentance. But it's pointless to ponder Danny Shelton ever seeking it. He is the leader of a cult where his followers have shown absolute submission and servitude to him. Historically, a cult leader never admits guilt or wrongdoing. When met with opposition of any sort, they work tirelessly to counter that opposition. They live in a state of constant fear that their opposition is gaining on them and getting stronger. They lash out easily at the people around them and never miss the opportunity to degrade and personally attack the people who will not agree with them. Yet they never miss the opportunity at self promotion and enlarging themselves in any way, especially with influential people.
-
King David was a man of fairness and swift justice. I am absolutely 100 percent certain that if there were child rapists among his kingdom, then he would have swiftly had them executed and he would have made a public example of it as well.
-
True, horsethief. And they often try to associate themselves with people of influence and power to prove their credibility, but the influence and social standing of those who support a cult leader is not a measure of that leader's moral rectitude. Jim Jones counted as his friends and supporters, the president of the United States, the governor of California, the mayor of San Francisco, and a great variety of legislators and business people. The followers of the Baghwan Shree Rahjneesh were largely highly educated and very wealthy people.
The continued adherence of fanatical followers is just par for that course. To this day there are followers of David Koresh who believe in his inevitable return. Jones' people followed him to the grave. The followers of the Baghwan gave him everything they owned and watched him enjoy a fleet of jets, expensive cars, and much more, while they lived in tiny rooms in prefab units. Why do people do that? It utterly defies all logic and reason, but in this current situation we have been afforded a unique opportunity to study and observe these cultists as we interact with them. Perhaps we can emerge from this situation enlightened in our understanding of how their minds work by taking this opportunity to study and observe them.
-
Murcielago: You ask "Why do people do that?" One reason might be that some people find it easy to adhere themselves to a leader or a movement who makes their decisions for them and makes provision for them because to do that for themselves is just too complicating.
Then there are the opportunists who attach themself to this this leader or movement for the sake of self promotion. The leader(s) like these types as long as they don't threaten to destabilize the hierarchy. They can point to them as one of their success examples.
SDA people can easily and deceptively fall into these cults. Many SDA folk believe that the writings of Ellen White are equal to the Bible. They conveniently ignore her statements to the contrary and her challenges to her readers to contrast and compare and decide for themselves. The people who don't want to think for themselves are the one's who usually fall into these cult movements. They like the comfort in believing that the thinking and pondering has already been done for them.
-
I agree and what I see is some people from the instant they are born are trained to be dependant by the characters of non Christian parents. Most are selfish, domineering, and arrogant with abusive and wrong application of punishment because children that get in the way of the parents time and social lives and mis applied training or no training. A child raised to this most prevalent and common sins of non christian parents make now grown dependant people look to complete guidance from elsewhere to survive. They look to other people, books of learning where non christian professors take again the same pattern (where their own common sense is not available). They have been stripped of their own identity, their own Independence of well being and satisfactions. They have had to comply to someone else always from the time they have been born instead of a parent only showing loving compassion and interest in the child's accomplishments and training them to create, accomplish, and be in dependant on God only for their answers. If a child is not trained to be in dependant they will always under any circumstances whether they know religion or not be dependant on someone else. They will always look for guidance that fits their upbringing and therefore how do you change it?? Only God knows and will contend with it. But that is the pattern I see. whether right or wrong remains. An independant person will seek their own truth for their own knowlege. In order to do that their mind is always open to factual facts and in no way be led and having discernment of right things. I suspect that discernment is the biggest and most important thing we can have to be saved in God's kingdom and without it "No Hope". Discernment is led by the Holy Spirit if you let it. Looking to people does not give it. This is the only way the Holy Spirit can work with a independent person and not a dependant person that can only follow human characters that use their evil self importance of "control" to others. They scoop up these dependants for their selfish egos of overpowering others that give them back the praise they think they are so worthy of by all means they can and "money" is their biggest come on. What a trait to follow after the Devil.
-
As much as we would like to, Horsethief, we lack the knowledge and especially the authority to make this determination. I know it is very difficult with all the outward appearance making a convincing argument, but we just can't make the determination, it is not our place. Oh I believe Danny is guilty of much also, but I just can't condemn him, especially when God has not. I am just as frustrated when I see those supporters defending the actions of TS, and DS to help cover up those deplorable actions, but I have to stop and think about what god has saved me from, what He still puts with from me, and I can only pattern my response after God's.
I agreee with David being a man of fairness and swift justice........he definteiy showed that when Nathan approached him with his own situation......he wanted to punish the master who took the servant's only sheep........but he neglected to see himself in this picture until pointed out to him.
PLEASE don't get me wrong...David is one of my favorites Bible characters. We only like him so much becuase we know.......the rest of the story....even the end of it. However, when we read these things about about and what he did, imagine being the people of that time. Not only the situation with Bathsheba, but the fact that even though a great warrior king, he was just inept as a father to those many, many, many children.......you think people didn't see that? One of his sons raping his own sister, defiling her for marriage the rest of the her life. He never could handle Absalom
who eventually sent him running......not all of those mighty foes around him....but his own son............Now imagine not knowing the end of that story, being there when everyone found out that Bathsheba was pregnant, that David was a wimp and did not defend his own daughter.
Imagine it....David's many offenses and after each one a new song begging for God's forgiveness to learn at church........LOL!!! I can see some folk refusing to sing. Something like folks who get rebaptized...several times...........LOL!!!
We can kick around our notions about repentance and true repentance. But it's pointless to ponder Danny Shelton ever seeking it. He is the leader of a cult where his followers have shown absolute submission and servitude to him. Historically, a cult leader never admits guilt or wrongdoing. When met with opposition of any sort, they work tirelessly to counter that opposition. They live in a state of constant fear that their opposition is gaining on them and getting stronger. They lash out easily at the people around them and never miss the opportunity to degrade and personally attack the people who will not agree with them. Yet they never miss the opportunity at self promotion and enlarging themselves in any way, especially with influential people.
-
Princess Di... All those words yet you really aren't saying much...
-
Now this still does not mean that Danny's repentance has to be public. The Bible also says to "confess your sins to God and your faults to one another". The other problem with this is that the only "sin" or isntance of "sins" for Danny was that entire dumping his wife for a younger woman, mid-life crisis, losing his mind type thing.....I believe he does owe an apology to Linda, Brandy, the 3ABN board, GC, the 3ABN supporters for not living up to the ministry he was preaching. However, all else he has been accused of was brought to the "light" and there is some argument was to whether a whole lot of it is true. Those "faults" were not public until some decided that since he tossed Linda, every breath he breathes must be iniquity. If he truly misappropriated, laundered and out right stole funds, then he does owe an apology to his supporters and should pay the legal ramifications.
princessdi,
I have mentioned this before, but I must not have made my point. I do not believe that Danny Shelton has ever been accused of money laundering. If you do not know what the term means, I suggest you stop using it.
-
Now this still does not mean that Danny's repentance has to be public. The Bible also says to "confess your sins to God and your faults to one another". The other problem with this is that the only "sin" or isntance of "sins" for Danny was that entire dumping his wife for a younger woman, mid-life crisis, losing his mind type thing.....I believe he does owe an apology to Linda, Brandy, the 3ABN board, GC, the 3ABN supporters for not living up to the ministry he was preaching. However, all else he has been accused of was brought to the "light" and there is some argument was to whether a whole lot of it is true. Those "faults" were not public until some decided that since he tossed Linda, every breath he breathes must be iniquity. If he truly misappropriated, laundered and out right stole funds, then he does owe an apology to his supporters and should pay the legal ramifications.
princessdi,
I have mentioned this before, but I must not have made my point. I do not believe that Danny Shelton has ever been accused of money laundering. If you do not know what the term means, I suggest you stop using it.
Danny is guilty of much much more. He got his money from somewhere, to pay for all of his horses and hair pieces, and fancy suits, and cars. Danny the defenders "annointed one" may very well be "annointed", but not by GOD!
Danny it IS NOT to late to repent, and turn from your evil ways. 3ABN's reputation may soon come to and end, and the doors may soon be closing, for your cover-up of your older brother's sin, but you heart still can turn back to God, that door is still open!
-
Danny must be lonely these days... No pretty 2nd cousin to take to ball games. No hot little stepdaughter to give backrubs to. No young trophy wife to ride beside him in his sportscar... Poor guy!
-
Now this still does not mean that Danny's repentance has to be public. The Bible also says to "confess your sins to God and your faults to one another". The other problem with this is that the only "sin" or isntance of "sins" for Danny was that entire dumping his wife for a younger woman, mid-life crisis, losing his mind type thing.....I believe he does owe an apology to Linda, Brandy, the 3ABN board, GC, the 3ABN supporters for not living up to the ministry he was preaching. However, all else he has been accused of was brought to the "light" and there is some argument was to whether a whole lot of it is true. Those "faults" were not public until some decided that since he tossed Linda, every breath he breathes must be iniquity. If he truly misappropriated, laundered and out right stole funds, then he does owe an apology to his supporters and should pay the legal ramifications.
princessdi,
I have mentioned this before, but I must not have made my point. I do not believe that Danny Shelton has ever been accused of money laundering. If you do not know what the term means, I suggest you stop using it.
Danny is guilty of much much more. He got his money from somewhere, to pay for all of his horses and hair pieces, and fancy suits, and cars. Danny the defenders "annointed one" may very well be "annointed", but not by GOD!
Danny it IS NOT to late to repent, and turn from your evil ways. 3ABN's reputation may soon come to and end, and the doors may soon be closing, for your cover-up of your older brother's sin, but you heart still can turn back to God, that door is still open!
That may very well be, Adam. But as of right now I have not EVER heard any allegations of money laundering against Danny or 3ABN, and as part of admin here, I cannot stand by in good conscience and allow that accusation to come from this forum simply because people don't know the meaning of the terms they are slinging around.
-
Let's take a look at "money laundering" for a moment. From the lawsuit filed by Attorney John Pucci on behalf of Danny Shelton:
f. Danny Shelton laundered money through 3ABN donations to Cherie Peters, in order to make payments that had been expressly prohibited by the 3ABN Board of directors.
Anywhere know where Pucci got a basis for claiming that we said this? I found this at BlackSDA.com (http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12344&view=findpost&p=174130), from a post by Gregory Matthews purportedly written by Gailon:
Did you get your hands on any proof regarding 3ABN's payments to Cherie Peters for Brandi's income?
Thus Pucci gives the impression that "laundered" can mean the concealment of the source of money when payments are prohibited by the board. I do not know if that is an appropriate use of the term or not.
However, note this from WikiPedia:
In US law, money laundering is the practice of engaging in financial transactions to conceal the identity, source, or destination of illegally gained money. In UK law the common law definition is wider: "taking any action with property of any form which is either wholly or in part the proceeds of a crime that will disguise the fact that that property is the proceeds of a crime or obscure the beneficial ownership of said property."
In the past, the term money laundering was applied only to financial transactions related to organized crime. Today its definition is often expanded by government and international regulators such as the US Office of the Comptroller of the Currency to mean any financial transaction which generates an asset or a value as the result of an illegal act, which may involve actions such as tax evasion or false accounting.
I believe I can prove in a court of law that Danny Shelton engaged in "money laundering" as defined by the above definition. In fact, I think I already did so.
Snoopy, does your definition differ from WikiPedia's? How do you feel the definition does or does not apply?
-
You mean you aren't comprehending what I AM saying? Read slowly.....I can't help you afer that.
Ok, ok, that's not nice.....Here ya go Horsethief, just for you......My point is that both men have some grievous sins, but while still alive not beyond the salvation of God. We know what happened to David, we don't know what twill happen with Danny.....no omore than we know the determination of our own salvation. Therefore, we(all of us here) should not rush to judgement about the eternal life(or lack thereof) of DS as long as he lives. God never gives up on us, "While there is life, there is hope."
Princess Di... All those words yet you really aren't saying much...
-
Ooops! sorry Snoopy! My bad! Again!! Ok so I mean to imply however anyone wants to see it.. My undetanding of "money laundering" comes from my understanding of the crime underworld. They take money from illegal businesses and filter them through the legal/legitimate businesses. i kinda think I heard something like that with DS, but I can't make sure. You know kind of moving the money around to hide its orgins. I will from here on in refrain from using the term.
Also, I totally understand, Snoopy, your making the statement as Admin here. No offense taken at all.
princessdi,
I have mentioned this before, but I must not have made my point. I do not believe that Danny Shelton has ever been accused of money laundering. If you do not know what the term means, I suggest you stop using it.
-
I find it offensive that there is a comparison of the Biblical David to Danny Shelton. I don't hold Danny beyond redemption, but he has shown no remorse for his actions. David was terribly remorseful for his sins surrounding Bathsheba. Danny thinks he was acting in accordance to scripture by living in sin.
I'll quote myself for the sake of understanding.
-
Good point, horsethief.
-
You mean you aren't comprehending what I AM saying? Read slowly.....I can't help you afer that.
Ok, ok, that's not nice.....Here ya go Horsethief, just for you......My point is that both men have some grievous sins, but while still alive not beyond the salvation of God. We know what happened to David, we don't know what twill happen with Danny.....no omore than we know the determination of our own salvation. Therefore, we(all of us here) should not rush to judgement about the eternal life(or lack thereof) of DS as long as he lives. God never gives up on us, "While there is life, there is hope."
Princess Di... All those words yet you really aren't saying much...
Princess, please stop, please. If I hear one more time Danny likened to David I will vomit. Does he have you soooo brainwashed that you cannot find anyone else to liken him to. The man was not king of Israel or anything of the sort. The man started a counterfeit television station to counterfeit the counterfeit. Then the man got high on his horse because of the minions that started praising him and thought he was much more than he was. The man got jealous of his wife and kicked her out for a younger woman. Then he convinced them that think he is like David to believe that he should not be alone because God would not want it thus. So he realizing he really was David reincarnated married a stripper and someone that had been married twice before because she was better than his former wife who he replaced with a pedophile. Of course we all know that God winks at all of this and blesses him anyway because you and others have said he is like David.
-
Thanks Christian...
-
Uuuh, Christian, I am not the one. I already told you all before, please do not push me to the point where I really don't care about being banned from this site. I am not responsible for you digestive system, or lack thereof. So, if you feel the need to toss your cookies, by all mean, do so. If you have a problem "all have sinned and come short" or God contending with one of His chidlren instead of giving up on him..........then tell it to God, not me. Remember Christ died for us ALL "while we were yet in our sins" God, can still bless "His" ministry. Just because Danny went left doesn't cause God to change His plans to reach His children. Danny's sins are not strongeer than the Will of God. The created can never be stronger that the Creator. He can deal with Danny mess and still bless 3ABN, they can be mutually exclusive in the eyes of God.
You new comers need to read a bit more. I am not a Danny fan. Never heard him speak neither sing, and ain't tryin' to! He is about as racist as they come. I was among the few who said that Danny had a "chick on the side" when he ousted and cheated Linda for no good reason. "Spiritual adultery, indeed!" LOL!! Still laugh when I hear that one. I believe that he has done about 85% of what he is being accused of. I believe that I have personally banned or suspended him on several occasions from BSDA, and taken on his supporters many more times. They don't like me at all at the 3ABN compound. Danny is not my friend, and goes both directions.
That being said, I still don't have the authority to condemn him to hell, and make him personified sin. He is still just like the rest of us, like David, a sinner for which Christ died.
I am sorry you all are so upset and missed the point of my comments. Try prayerfully considering them again.
But I am curious, Christian, this is the first time I heard someone call 3ABN a counterfeit ministry. Most believe it to be legitimate, and they are trying to toss Danny out in order to "restore" it to what God orignal meant for it to be. Tell me more about this "counterfeit" theought process.
Princess, please stop, please. If I hear one more time Danny likened to David I will vomit. Does he have you soooo brainwashed that you cannot find anyone else to liken him to. The man was not king of Israel or anything of the sort. The man started a counterfeit television station to counterfeit the counterfeit. Then the man got high on his horse because of the minions that started praising him and thought he was much more than he was. The man got jealous of his wife and kicked her out for a younger woman. Then he convinced them that think he is like David to believe that he should not be alone because God would not want it thus. So he realizing he really was David reincarnated married a stripper and someone that had been married twice before because she was better than his former wife who he replaced with a pedophile. Of course we all know that God winks at all of this and blesses him anyway because you and others have said he is like David.
-
Christian, I can vouch for Princessdi, not that anyone needs to do so. She speaks for herself very well. She and the whole admin staff at Blacksda were, I felt, very fair and welcoming to all participants. I believe it would have been a good place for a meeting of the minds and a reconcilliation of the brethren if this had ever been at all possible. If all had come to the discussion without already having made up their minds (and/or having their own agenda) the facts could have brought all to agreement and brought reform and repentance where needed. Perhaps it was the hope of the admins that this harmony would eventually happen and maybe this was the aim in allowing everything to be so thoroughly discussed. If it could have happened anywhere it would have happened there.
Princessdi is one who speaks her mind and has been quite open about her opinions. She has always made it clear that she never has been a 3ABN sympathizer. She is really a very no nonsense kind of person.
-
Uuuh, Christian, I am not the one. I already told you all before, please do not push me to the point where I really don't care about being banned from this site. I am not responsible for you digestive system, or lack thereof. So, if you feel the need to toss your cookies, by all mean, do so. If you have a problem "all have sinned and come short" or God contending with one of His chidlren instead of giving up on him..........then tell it to God, not me. Remember Christ died for us ALL "while we were yet in our sins" God, can still bless "His" ministry. Just because Danny went left doesn't cause God to change His plans to reach His children. Danny's sins are not strongeer than the Will of God. The created can never be stronger that the Creator. He can deal with Danny mess and still bless 3ABN, they can be mutually exclusive in the eyes of God.
You new comers need to read a bit more. I am not a Danny fan. Never heard him speak neither sing, and ain't tryin' to! He is about as racist as they come. I was among the few who said that Danny had a "chick on the side" when he ousted and cheated Linda for no good reason. "Spiritual adultery, indeed!" LOL!! Still laugh when I hear that one. I believe that he has done about 85% of what he is being accused of. I believe that I have personally banned or suspended him on several occasions from BSDA, and taken on his supporters many more times. They don't like me at all at the 3ABN compound. Danny is not my friend, and goes both directions.
That being said, I still don't have the authority to condemn him to hell, and make him personified sin. He is still just like the rest of us, like David, a sinner for which Christ died.
I am sorry you all are so upset and missed the point of my comments. Try prayerfully considering them again.
But I am curious, Christian, this is the first time I heard someone call 3ABN a counterfeit ministry. Most believe it to be legitimate, and they are trying to toss Danny out in order to "restore" it to what God orignal meant for it to be. Tell me more about this "counterfeit" theought process.
Princess, please stop, please. If I hear one more time Danny likened to David I will vomit. Does he have you soooo brainwashed that you cannot find anyone else to liken him to. The man was not king of Israel or anything of the sort. The man started a counterfeit television station to counterfeit the counterfeit. Then the man got high on his horse because of the minions that started praising him and thought he was much more than he was. The man got jealous of his wife and kicked her out for a younger woman. Then he convinced them that think he is like David to believe that he should not be alone because God would not want it thus. So he realizing he really was David reincarnated married a stripper and someone that had been married twice before because she was better than his former wife who he replaced with a pedophile. Of course we all know that God winks at all of this and blesses him anyway because you and others have said he is like David.
I apologize, sorry, I should not have come off so strong. It just that the things that are happening and have happened at 3ABN and 3ABN's importance has been, in my opinion, really over exaggerated. They are a TV ministry and nothing more, they have spread the gospel in what I believe as having a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof. They have been the great debaters and the undefeated Champions of logic but have long since lost the power that is a necessity of changed lives. We see good programing and bible based logic as the key and the avenue for salvation when it only condemns individuals to a life of misery and shame. No amount of knowledge will allow you to perform the works of God it takes the Holy Spirit. I do believe that Linda was starting to touch on what was needed and for that reason she was attacked and removed by Satan. That is why I call 3Abn the counterfeit trying to correct the counterfeit. THREE ABN AND OTHERS ARE CONDEMING PEOPLE TO LIVES OF MISERY AND FAILURE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT ALLOWED THE HOLY SPIRIT TO CHANGE LIVES. WHAT DOES A REASIONING KNOWLEDGE OF THE SABBATH DO FOR SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER TO KEEP IT? And why teach someone about the sabbath when they will simply break one of the other commandments and be guilty of all? ***There ministry can only be successful when they realize the dream of mending broken people*** Danny and others Diabolical television ministry cloaked in a robe of deceit and sexual abuse and pedophilia lack the Holy Spirit. There ministry can never be successful as long as sin is tolerated and past sins swept under the rug are left unrepentant of. Sweet music and cleaver TV programing and all will not substitute for the Holy Spirits work. The real workers of God will be like John the Baptist they will call sin by its rightful name SIN and will prepare the way of the Lord by really mending broken people.
-
No need to apologize Christian. You were right the first time.
-
No need to apologize Christian. You were right the first time.
Why so hostile? Di is not and has never been a Danny defender. She's always been behind the victims.
-
Very good post, Christian. You make some excellent points.
-
Not a problem, Christian! I totally understand your perspective now, and you are right!!! Their "Mending Broken People" is a joke in the light of what they did to Linda. Also, because that healing needs to start at home, or at least the process of healing. Then they could probably be some really truly powerful witness for God. I believe that God is till blessing through 3ABN, but imagine how much more power that ministry would be with all of the testimonies of what they themselves have overcome in Jesus Matchless Name!
And I like you, Christian!!!! You are very right, they very much so have only a form of godliness, and really not interested in the power thereof.
@ Horsethief, chill out! We agree on much more than you are willing to see. Give me another chance......... ;D
I apologize, sorry, I should not have come off so strong. It just that the things that are happening and have happened at 3ABN and 3ABN's importance has been, in my opinion, really over exaggerated. They are a TV ministry and nothing more, they have spread the gospel in what I believe as having a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof. They have been the great debaters and the undefeated Champions of logic but have long since lost the power that is a necessity of changed lives. We see good programing and bible based logic as the key and the avenue for salvation when it only condemns individuals to a life of misery and shame. No amount of knowledge will allow you to perform the works of God it takes the Holy Spirit. I do believe that Linda was starting to touch on what was needed and for that reason she was attacked and removed by Satan. That is why I call 3Abn the counterfeit trying to correct the counterfeit. THREE ABN AND OTHERS ARE CONDEMING PEOPLE TO LIVES OF MISERY AND FAILURE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT ALLOWED THE HOLY SPIRIT TO CHANGE LIVES. WHAT DOES A REASIONING KNOWLEDGE OF THE SABBATH DO FOR SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER TO KEEP IT? And why teach someone about the sabbath when they will simply break one of the other commandments and be guilty of all? ***There ministry can only be successful when they realize the dream of mending broken people*** Danny and others Diabolical television ministry cloaked in a robe of deceit and sexual abuse and pedophilia lack the Holy Spirit. There ministry can never be successful as long as sin is tolerated and past sins swept under the rug are left unrepentant of. Sweet music and cleaver TV programing and all will not substitute for the Holy Spirits work. The real workers of God will be like John the Baptist they will call sin by its rightful name SIN and will prepare the way of the Lord by really mending broken people.
-
Thank you for this COTK!! Whew!! I talk waaaay to much!!! LOL!!
Christian, I can vouch for Princessdi, not that anyone needs to do so. She speaks for herself very well. She and the whole admin staff at Blacksda were, I felt, very fair and welcoming to all participants. I believe it would have been a good place for a meeting of the minds and a reconcilliation of the brethren if this had ever been at all possible. If all had come to the discussion without already having made up their minds (and/or having their own agenda) the facts could have brought all to agreement and brought reform and repentance where needed. Perhaps it was the hope of the admins that this harmony would eventually happen and maybe this was the aim in allowing everything to be so thoroughly discussed. If it could have happened anywhere it would have happened there.
Princessdi is one who speaks her mind and has been quite open about her opinions. She has always made it clear that she never has been a 3ABN sympathizer. She is really a very no nonsense kind of person.
-
Ooops! sorry Snoopy! My bad! Again!! Ok so I mean to imply however anyone wants to see it.. My undetanding of "money laundering" comes from my understanding of the crime underworld. They take money from illegal businesses and filter them through the legal/legitimate businesses. i kinda think I heard something like that with DS, but I can't make sure. You know kind of moving the money around to hide its orgins. I will from here on in refrain from using the term.
Also, I totally understand, Snoopy, your making the statement as Admin here. No offense taken at all.
princessdi,
I have mentioned this before, but I must not have made my point. I do not believe that Danny Shelton has ever been accused of money laundering. If you do not know what the term means, I suggest you stop using it.
Wise women; both of you. :pals:
-
Hi, Chrissie!
-
Hi, Chrissie!
Hi Artiste
Good to see you Folk are all hanging in there. :rabbit: :puppykisses: :purr: