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[Jise]

I skimmed an article over at the Adventist Today about the problem of Progessive Adventists and it was quite horrid.

The problem with many Conservative Adventists - is that they are quite dishonest and are agents of moral compromise.

What is astounding is that many of these people would attempt to conflate their support of political American conservatism to biblical christianity - and have basically lied about the fact that political American conservatism has been defined in the last 40 years with the defection of southern confederate segregationists.  Given this history - it is astounding that Conservative Adventists are so insistent on defining godliness and ungodliness in political terms of progressivism and conservatism.  Many Adventist Conservatives - some of whom are adulterers are so dishonest - that they'd have you believe that progressives are simply progressive because they are ungodly - many conservative adventists are too dishonest to admit that a wing of the political progressives exists for the purpose of being oppositional to the southern confederate segregationists and their interests.  This is why Adventist Conservatives are quite dishonest in their attempts to sully discourse on christianity and godliness with the worldly  American political terminology .

Many Adventist Conservatives would have you believe that it is Godly - to have perverted Courts and Perverted Justice - even though the bible Counsels otherwise. Or to have an all conservative court wherein you really have no judges chosen from all tribes.

Conservatism has very little to do with biblical principals and following the 10 commandments - in fact - it is filled with moral compromise.  What is astounding is how the Adventist Church is consumed with attempting to convince the populace that this moral compromise is Godliness.

Some strains of Conservatism stands for the rape of women of particular ethnic groups as happened in in the 17 to 20th Centuries - and with deification of those who engaged in these ungodly acts.

Some Conservatism thus supports Sexual promiscuity, fornication, and impurity.

Some Conservatism also stands for double standards in the workplace, and for support for poor performers of particular races not being held accountable for their poor performance, but being given superior career opportunities to persons from certain historical as well as racial backgrounds within this country of the USA.

Some Conservative Adventists have peddled the lie that to be for enforcement of civil rights laws for racial minorities means that one is unbiblical and ungodly.

As we've all seen quite lately - just because one calls one's self conservative, does not mean that one is beyond promiscuity, adultery, etc., etc.

Because of the moral compromise of the conservative movement in the Adventist Church - this Church attracts many "conservative" people without a vision - people who follow others and who are not visionaries - persons who have very little experience with building much of anything - whether its a country, or a company, etc.  Instead- persons who follow -and are followers and are used to being led are attracted to the adventist Church - What the Adventist Church has - in large quantities are persons calling themselves "conservative" who are essentially "panderers" - persons who "pander" to base sentiment in order to curry favor.  A true anti-colonialist would not support the paradigm of pandering and being a follower of the most basest passions and beliefs - rather than being a visionary.

I personally would not have a problem with a conservative if the reason why they were conservative was solely due to issues such as abortion or due to the belief in their right to hold certain other social views that are defined in the bible - many progressives share these views. But where many Conservative Adventists are dishonest in attempting to conflate godliness with their political conservatism - is that they are dishonest about the fact that their conservativism is never just about abortion or certain social issues - but necessarily is about moral compromise and a support for confederate segregationists and their ideas of moral compromise.  Their conservatism is a support for promiscuity, exploitation of women, employment discrimination against certain persons with a certain historical experience of disadvantage in the USA.

This is what Adventist Conservatives are not honest about.  It's particularly dishonest for an Adventist Conservative to insinuate that to be godly that one must equate the ideas of southern confederate segregationists with Godliness.

Interesting enough some Adventist Conservatives who love to condescend down to others don't want to admit that segregation within the SDA Church had the same origins as segregation in the larger society and that this impulse still exists within the SDA Church - nor do some conservatives want to admit that what passes for "integrated" SDA Churches - are not really necessarily integrated churches in some instances, but instead persons joining what is essentially a Church is a segregationist Church as is reflected in the style of worship, leadership, etc.

Interesting enough that you never hear those adventist conservatives who talk down to racial minorities here in the US cajoling them to join essentially majority churches - you never hear these same people cajoling other ethnic groups to join churches of other ethnic groups.  It's just that "Black Conferences" are a problem - but Churches that are even named for other ethnic groups are not given the same treatment or portrayed as a problem - which shows the intellectual dishonesty of these so-called Adventist Conservatives.

If the "Black Conference" is a problem, why is not the same argument used for Adventist Churches that are devoted to other groups? This is an example of what is another problem with the Adventist Church -this paradigm of presenting a particular ethnic group as a "problem" .

I particular think there is value in having ethnic churches and note that some Adventist Churches are explicitly named for such - but find it interesting how these churches are never portrayed in a negative fashion as trying to perpetuate "racism" and agree that they should not be - but I do interrogate the double standard.

There are many intelligent people who view the Adventist Church as being comprised of some of the most foolish and ridiculous persons who are simply unable to explain their double standards, and contradicitions, their dogmatism, and fixation with tribalism.

[Jise]

May I add - I generally think that Ronald Reagan was a political leader - a conservative - who perpetuated moral compromise. Interestingly enough, many conservative adventist christians probably supported him even though he seemed to dabble in astrology and not go to church that much. But one of the things I liked about Ronald Reagon as well as Chris Christie - is that they are very dogmatic and they seem to take no prisoners.  I actually think that Chris Christie to be quite funny and quite a character- - but I'm glad that he did not run because I don't think many of his positions are tenable .  What I admire about Reagon is that even if I did not agree with his positions - and I don't - he fired those air traffic controllers.  But this same type of dogmatism in religion - especially if one is wrong - is not appealing - the substance of the dogmatism is not appealing in politics even if the means by which the substance is delivered can be and is appealing.

[Murcielago]

I find this interesting. One finds that there is biblical mandate set for racial denigration and slavery. Also, it is very true that religious conservatism has been closely tied to politics for as long as they both have existed. Egypt, Greece, Rome, Japan, China, Byzantium, the Holy Roman Empire, Switzerland, France, Germany, Austria, England, Holland, Spain, Portugal, Aztecs, Olmecs, Mixtecs, Maya... and so forth. The Dark Ages were brought on by religious/political conservatives and the Rennaisance was birthed by humanist free-thinkers who equally despised the dogmatism of the Church, Calvin, Knox, Savonarolla, and any other religious/political despot.

[Jise]

Yet the Bible points out to the fact that Miriam was given some disease because of her racism and the bible also condemns perverted justice - unjust courts - as well as so-called justice that favors or purports to favor the so-called "poor".  The bible does counsel against mixing with certain nations for which their way of lives involves debauchery and other ungodliness - yet this is the only sort of diversity that the Adventist Church seems to embrace - the Adventist Church calls for a blind adherance to conserservative apostasy and also seeks to accentuate those aspects of nations in the world including to some extent the US - that are cursed because of their ungodliness as described in Deuteronomy.  The Adventist Church wants to hold up as examples the ethos of the nation that is indebted to the world bank and is ravaged by health epidemics that largely spring from a lifestyle of unbiblical ungodliness and promiscuity.