Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Adam on June 06, 2011, 09:49:24 PM
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http://www.hermanlaw.com/
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http://www.hermanlaw.com/
impressive
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Adam, what exactly does this mean? The Dunn Loring Community Church of God has now been pulled into Alex's lawsuit? I have attended the church for many years and would appreciate more than a mere posting of a link to an attorney's website with a subject line reading, "Re: Meet Jeff Herman new counsel against 3ABN/Community Church of God."
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That is correct. The church will be involved as well. They knew about Tommy Shelton, yet still allowed him to pastor their church! Documentation will prove this.
I may also add unlike, John Manly, this firm believes there is indeed a case against the church, the leaders, and the parties associated with allowing Tommy to regain his license after they was suspended in 1985 by the Anderson Association.
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Jeff Herman is a nationally-recognized trial lawyer and advocate for survivors of rape, sexual abuse and sexual exploitation. He is a trailblazer in the representation of victims of sexual abuse, devoting 100% of his practice to the cause. Over his career he has represented hundreds of brave men, women and children. Over the past 2 decades, Jeff has has built a national practice and has become one of the nation's leading childhood sexual abuse attorneys and pioneers, a true champion of his clients' rights. Jeff is the founding and managing partner of Herman, Mermelstein & Horowitz, P.A., a law firm based in Miami, Florida, that represents clients nationwide.
For more than 25 years, Jeff has enjoyed a reputation for aggressive and tireless advocacy on behalf of his clients. He understands the unique issues involved in the representation of survivors of rape and sexual abuse. His clients come to him with different needs, which is why he is committed to helping them navigate the other issues that may arise for survivors, such as developing a support system of counselors and advocates, or participating in the criminal prosecution of the perpetrator. Jeff knows that healing from sexual abuse is a complex, multi-dimensional journey and that a civil lawsuit is only one part of that journey, albeit an important one. He believes that empowering abuse victims is the most important part of representing them. Victims of rape, sexual abuse, and sexual exploitation from all over the United States seek Jeff out to represent them in civil lawsuits.
In order to ensure the best possible outcome for his clients, Jeff is personally involved in each and every case that our firm handles. He manages each case from intake to final resolution. Jeff has personally represented:
hundreds of victims of clergy sexual abuse in the Roman Catholic Church, including the Archdiocese of New York, Archdiocese of Denver, Diocese of Orlando, Marianists Religious Order, and more than 100 cases against the Archdiocese of Miami
a young woman who alleges she was raped on board a cruise ship
men who allege they were sexually abused by their Scoutmaster in the Boy Scouts
men who allege they were sexually abused as members of the Columbian Squires, the official youth organization of the Knights of Columbus
a woman who alleges she was sexually assaulted during a CAT scan at a South Florida hospital
women who allege they were sexually assaulted during the course of a massage at a luxury spa resort
a high school student who alleges she was raped by her math teacher in Fort Lauderdale, Florida
children who allege they were sexually abused by their foster father
children who allege they were sexually abused by a rabbi at their yeshiva in New York
boys and girls who allege they were sexually abused by teachers in public and private schools
a mentally handicapped man who alleges he was raped by another resident at his group home
young girls who allege they were forced to perform sexual acts on the teenage son of their pre-kindergarten teacher at a Miami day care
men and women who allege they were sexually abused as children in overseas dormitories run by New Tribes Mission, a worldwide Christian missionary organization
a teenager who alleges he was sexually abused at Thompson Academy, a residential facility for juvenile offenders in Florida
preschoolers who allege they were sexually abused by a volunteer at their preschool
On the legal front, Jeff has been a pioneer in developing new legal strategies to avoid the statute of limitations defense in cases involving childhood sexual abuse by Roman Catholic clergy brought by adult survivors in several states, including Colorado and Florida.
Jeff knows that community advocacy is vital to the prevention of childhood sexual abuse. Jeff is honored to serve on the Board of Directors of KidSafe Foundation, a South Florida-based non-profit organization dedicated to preventing the sexual abuse of children through various educational programs. He has also appeared as a featured speaker at community programs involving sexual abuse.Given his knowledge and reputation in the legal community, Jeff has taught Continuing Legal Education classes for other attorneys on litigating sexual abuse cases and trial techniques. He has also trained law enforcement, victim-witness liaisons, and other attorneys in cooperation with the National Crime Victim Bar Association.
Over the course of his career, Jeff has appeared in national and international media hundreds of times. Jeff's work has been featured on CNN, Fox News, and in pages of the New York Times. In recent years, Jeff has been a regular guest on Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor to offer commentary and insight on various sexual abuse topics, including protecting children and healing from abuse.
Jeff is admitted to practice in Florida. He has been admitted pro hac vice in cases across the United States, including Colorado, Indiana, New York, Massachusetts, Tennessee, and Virginia.
Jeff is a native of Cleveland, Ohio. He attended Case Western Reserve University School of Law, earning his Juris Doctorate in 1985. During that time, he served as the Editor of the Journal of International Law and President of the International Law Society. He received a Bachelor of Science degree from the University of Arizona in 1982.
Publications:
"Protecting Our Children" [Link to PDF]
Slaughtered Souls (working title of manuscript to be published in 2012)
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What happened to Mitch?
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I suppose everything starts again from the beginning now with no consideration to negotiations with the former lawyers?
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I suppose everything starts again from the beginning now with no consideration to negotiations with the former lawyers?
I was referring to this thread, started by Adam on May 20:
http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php/topic,2134.0.html
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That is correct. The church will be involved as well. They knew about Tommy Shelton, yet still allowed him to pastor their church! Documentation will prove this.
I may also add unlike, John Manly, this firm believes there is indeed a case against the church, the leaders, and the parties associated with allowing Tommy to regain his license after they was suspended in 1985 by the Anderson Association.
Below are some questions that come to mind after reading Adam's post.
Adam, you said:"They knew about Tommy Shelton, yet still allowed him to pastor their church! Documentation will prove this."
What did the church know and how can this be proven? When you say the church, who at the church? Was the church or someone connected to the church only aware of allegations or did they know more and is this proveable? What did they know in or near 1985? Did they find out more after this and not take action?
Adam, you said: "...and the parties associated with allowing Tommy to regain his license after they was suspended in 1985 by the Anderson Association."
Did TS regain the same license that was suspended in 1985? Or did another organization issue him a new license? Did the regained or new license expire and if so, was it renewed? Who are "the parties associated with allowing Tommy to regain his license?" Does TS still have a license?
I remember some bits and pieces of the information that was posted earlier on other sites, but can't remember the exact details. Can someone post the files that were on the blacksda site or other sites that are no longer accessable? What other documentation is available elsewhere related to the VA church and TS?
There must have been statements by people for the letter from "GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE CHURCH OF GOD IN ILLINOIS," (posted on save-3abn.com) to be sent. If so, are these statements documented? According to that letter, there were four reasons they suspended TS's license.
"This action was taken for the following reasons:
1. Improper counseling procedures followed by you and admitted by you.
2. Numerous charges of misconduct reported to this committee.
3. We have been advised that an investigation is underway by the West Frankfort Illinois Police Department concerning criminal sexual abuse charges against you.
4. Controversy surrounding your ministry and personal lifestyle."
After this letter was sent, I believe TS continued to pastor the Ezra Church of God. What did those at the Ezra church know when they asked him to continue or come back as their pastor? What about the folks that approved this? Instead of starting to go after the last place he pastored (in VA), it makes sense to start with those who first allowed TS to continue being a pastor after the initial allegations. If the folks from the VA church knew of any allegations they would have most likely talked to the folks at the Ezra church who allowed him to continue being their pastor.
Looking back now it is easy to say that the General Assembly of the Church of God in IL made the right decision.
By the way, wouldn't it be best to wait until after the criminal trials before starting civil cases?
Thanks to anyone that is able to provide any answers or additional information.
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That is correct. The church will be involved as well. They knew about Tommy Shelton, yet still allowed him to pastor their church! Documentation will prove this.
I may also add unlike, John Manly, this firm believes there is indeed a case against the church, the leaders, and the parties associated with allowing Tommy to regain his license after they was suspended in 1985 by the Anderson Association.
Below are some questions that come to mind after reading Adam's post.
Adam, you said:"They knew about Tommy Shelton, yet still allowed him to pastor their church! Documentation will prove this."
What did the church know and how can this be proven? When you say the church, who at the church? Was the church or someone connected to the church only aware of allegations or did they know more and is this proveable? What did they know in or near 1985? Did they find out more after this and not take action?
The church new of Tommy's past before hiring him to take over Bro. and Sis. Woods position. This can be proven through countless board meeting minutes. Pastor Wood and Sister Wood are guilty parties. They knew about Tommy's past yet allowed him to pastor. They even assigned people to watch over Tommy and monitor him. Why take precautions such as these if they wasn't worried? Why would they ask Tommy to install a glass window in his office door?
Adam, you said: "...and the parties associated with allowing Tommy to regain his license after they was suspended in 1985 by the Anderson Association."
Did TS regain the same license that was suspended in 1985? Or did another organization issue him a new license? Did the regained or new license expire and if so, was it renewed? Who are "the parties associated with allowing Tommy to regain his license?" Does TS still have a license?
No, he did not. However, he did through another association based out of Dun Loring Va. that Pastor Woods was the president of. Who was the parties? Pastor Wood, Glenn Dryden, Arnold Edmondson, just to name a few. I believe Tommy sent his last license back to the counsel.
I remember some bits and pieces of the information that was posted earlier on other sites, but can't remember the exact details. Can someone post the files that were on the blacksda site or other sites that are no longer accessable? What other documentation is available elsewhere related to the VA church and TS?
There must have been statements by people for the letter from "GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE CHURCH OF GOD IN ILLINOIS," (posted on save-3abn.com) to be sent. If so, are these statements documented? According to that letter, there were four reasons they suspended TS's license.
"This action was taken for the following reasons:
1. Improper counseling procedures followed by you and admitted by you.
2. Numerous charges of misconduct reported to this committee.
3. We have been advised that an investigation is underway by the West Frankfort Illinois Police Department concerning criminal sexual abuse charges against you.
4. Controversy surrounding your ministry and personal lifestyle."
After this letter was sent, I believe TS continued to pastor the Ezra Church of God. What did those at the Ezra church know when they asked him to continue or come back as their pastor? What about the folks that approved this? Instead of starting to go after the last place he pastored (in VA), it makes sense to start with those who first allowed TS to continue being a pastor after the initial allegations. If the folks from the VA church knew of any allegations they would have most likely talked to the folks at the Ezra church who allowed him to continue being their pastor.
The fact is Alex and the other victims abuse did not happen at Ezra. It happened in Dun Loring. So, that church is responsible.
Looking back now it is easy to say that the General Assembly of the Church of God in IL made the right decision.
By the way, wouldn't it be best to wait until after the criminal trials before starting civil cases?
The fact is the church knew this was coming....One huge question is why didn't John Manly want to go after the church? The fact is there is a case against them, and will be perused.
Thanks to anyone that is able to provide any answers or additional information.
Edit- My responses are in the italic text
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What happened to Mitch?
Mitch was on the list of possible attorney's. As of today, Alex had not heard back from Mitch, had spoken with Jeff Herman and decided to go with him.
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I suppose the Church of God has an insurance that will take care of things for them?
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Why would you suppose that?
It is true that some insurance poloicies in the past covered such claims. Howeer, in the present, most insurance policies do not cuover such.
You are making an assumption as to what type of coverage that congregation would have thought they needed many years ago. Perhaps they only thought, at that time, that they only needed fire insurance?
You do not get insurance coverage unless you purchase it.
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I suppose the Church of God has an insurance that will take care of things for them?
Yes, they do.
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I suppose the Church of God has an insurance that will take care of things for them?
I am wondering how someone here might accurately speculate as to the type of insurance policy a Church of God in VA would have? [ But I suppose that is the beauty of speculation - one only has to say "IMHO" or "I suppose" and then not really have to back anything up!]
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I suppose the Church of God has an insurance that will take care of things for them?
I am wondering how someone here might accurately speculate as to the type of insurance policy a Church of God in VA would have? [ But I suppose that is the beauty of speculation - one only has to say "IMHO" or "I suppose" and then not really have to back anything up!]
Perhaps a 5 million dollar policy?
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... if you say so.... :dunno:
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... if you say so.... :dunno:
No, I'm not saying, I'm just asking. I do however find it interesting that people seem to have an issue with the church being brought to justice for their mistake. They are at FAULT!
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I don't know that anyone has expressed a "problem" with it, but it was perhaps somewhat unexpected to read your post here about a suit against 3ABN/Church of God. It is also hard to read the words "the church being brought to justice", but I know there are many different vantage points to view the same event or incident. There may be those at that church in VA who feel that they were victimized by Mr. Shelton's deception (rather than by actually being physically harmed themselves) and have been hurting and grieving and lifting up his victims before the Lord... there are no winners or victors in a situation like this. Everyone loses. :'(
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I don't know that anyone has expressed a "problem" with it, but it was perhaps somewhat unexpected to read your post here about a suit against 3ABN/Church of God. It is also hard to read the words "the church being brought to justice", but I know there are many different vantage points to view the same event or incident. There may be those at that church in VA who feel that they were victimized by Mr. Shelton's deception (rather than by actually being physically harmed themselves) and have been hurting and grieving and lifting up his victims before the Lord... there are no winners or victors in a situation like this. Everyone loses. :'(
My guess is that the majority of the church there were in the dark and thus victims of a sort.
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I don't know that anyone has expressed a "problem" with it, but it was perhaps somewhat unexpected to read your post here about a suit against 3ABN/Church of God. It is also hard to read the words "the church being brought to justice", but I know there are many different vantage points to view the same event or incident. There may be those at that church in VA who feel that they were victimized by Mr. Shelton's deception (rather than by actually being physically harmed themselves) and have been hurting and grieving and lifting up his victims before the Lord... there are no winners or victors in a situation like this. Everyone loses. :'(
My guess is that the majority of the church there were in the dark and thus victims of a sort.
Oh, please. You can't tell me that they were victims. :-/
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Dear Adam,
Can you please explain what you meant by your last post?
Thanks!
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Oh, please. You can't tell me that they were victims. :-/
Sure, they're victims of a sort, are they not? Those who were duped by Tommy Shelton?
Some have tried to assert that Duane Clem wasn't a victim because he was over 18 at the time, but I disagree.
I'm a victim of sorts, am I not? Look at all the grief Danny and Tommy have caused me.
But a victim of sorts is not the same as a victim of child molestation. And a victim of sorts is not the same as Moms in Pain #1 and #2.
There are degrees of victims.
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Guess we will have to disagree. Pastor Byron Jennings and Gail Woods failed to tell the church of the info they had, as did the church board who I am sure was aware of past misconduct? Even after the first round of allegations did the church not keep Tommy as Pastor? If so, sorry Bob, but victims they are not!
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The congregation in Dunn Loring did not know about the allegations til long after TS was gone. No, we were not all victims of child molestation, but we are heartbroken that some were. We were victims of deception... my only point with regard to my response to you, Adam, is that the congregation in Dunn Loring is neither the perpetrator nor the enemy.
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The congregation in Dunn Loring did not know about the allegations til long after TS was gone. No, we were not all victims of child molestation, but we are heartbroken that some were. We were victims of deception... my only point with regard to my response to you, Adam, is that the congregation in Dunn Loring is neither the perpetrator nor the enemy.
I agree to a point. However, some in the church did know. Including Pastor Jennings Wood!
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I agree to a point. However, some in the church did know. Including Pastor Jennings Wood!
Those who knew would be harder to call "duped" than those who knew nothing at all.
Let's try not to lump in the innocent with those we think are guilty. Some may have known, and some did not. Those who did not know should not be vilified. It's embarrassing enough as it is.
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Bob, Bob, yes it is embarrassing that church leadership allowed a pedophile to take their place in the pulpit and harm children I agree!
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Unfortunately, For some churches/entity, it makes no difference how many members knew when offenses occur. It is the fact that an agent working on behalf of the church/entity were negligent in due diligence and therefore allowed or created the conditions the offense(s) to occur.
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Yes, Princessdi, from a legal standpoint, that would be correct.
I guess my responses are based on how it feels to be a congregant in a church blown apart by something like this, and Adam's saying, "people seem to have an issue with the church being brought to justice for their mistake. They are at FAULT!" I guess as a corportate body, the church could be found at fault in some way - I am not sure what all the ramifications are- but I was thinking more of the people, of which I am one, and though I have many faults, I am perfectly sure this isn't one of them. But it's probably just a matter of semantics. "Who knew what, and when did they know it" is always a pretty basic part of determining culpability.
But in the end, I cannot help but think of the Prince at the finale of Romeo and Juliet, declaring in despair, "All are punished". I know I am.
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PrincessDi you are right. In the eyes of the law the whole church is guilty. Who will have to pay the consequences? The whole church. Why? Because they hired a pedophile to lead their congregation. Whether they knew or not makes no difference. The fact is boys was molested within their church and IN their church facility. Like my dad use to say...sometimes you have to pay for other peoples mistakes.
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However, I will say this, I do feel sorry for the people who was in the dark and mis-led by this hypocrite. The fact is the church will be required to pay out for hiring him and not having all the facts of his past when doing so! To be completely honest, had the church investigated him before allowing him to pastor- I would be more sympathetic towards the members. Seeing they did not- I am not!
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That is correct. The church will be involved as well. They knew about Tommy Shelton, yet still allowed him to pastor their church! Documentation will prove this.
I may also add unlike, John Manly, this firm believes there is indeed a case against the church, the leaders, and the parties associated with allowing Tommy to regain his license after they was suspended in 1985 by the Anderson Association.
Below are some questions that come to mind after reading Adam's post.
Adam, you said:"They knew about Tommy Shelton, yet still allowed him to pastor their church! Documentation will prove this."
What did the church know and how can this be proven? When you say the church, who at the church? Was the church or someone connected to the church only aware of allegations or did they know more and is this proveable? What did they know in or near 1985? Did they find out more after this and not take action?
The church new of Tommy's past before hiring him to take over Bro. and Sis. Woods position. This can be proven through countless board meeting minutes. Pastor Wood and Sister Wood are guilty parties. They knew about Tommy's past yet allowed him to pastor. They even assigned people to watch over Tommy and monitor him. Why take precautions such as these if they wasn't worried? Why would they ask Tommy to install a glass window in his office door?
When you say they new about his past, discussed it and assigned people to watch over him, I wonder what steps were taken to look into what they heard about his past? What about his past did they know? Did they only ask TS or those who would natually protect him or did they interview those who had accused him? Who was the pastor at the Ezra church at this time? Did they talk to the organization that took his license away to understand the reasons they took that action?
Adam, you said: "...and the parties associated with allowing Tommy to regain his license after they was suspended in 1985 by the Anderson Association."
Did TS regain the same license that was suspended in 1985? Or did another organization issue him a new license? Did the regained or new license expire and if so, was it renewed? Who are "the parties associated with allowing Tommy to regain his license?" Does TS still have a license?
No, he did not. However, he did through another association based out of Dun Loring Va. that Pastor Woods was the president of. Who was the parties? Pastor Wood, Glenn Dryden, Arnold Edmondson, just to name a few. I believe Tommy sent his last license back to the counsel.
I remember some bits and pieces of the information that was posted earlier on other sites, but can't remember the exact details. Can someone post the files that were on the blacksda site or other sites that are no longer accessable? What other documentation is available elsewhere related to the VA church and TS?
There must have been statements by people for the letter from "GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE CHURCH OF GOD IN ILLINOIS," (posted on save-3abn.com) to be sent. If so, are these statements documented? According to that letter, there were four reasons they suspended TS's license.
"This action was taken for the following reasons:
1. Improper counseling procedures followed by you and admitted by you.
2. Numerous charges of misconduct reported to this committee.
3. We have been advised that an investigation is underway by the West Frankfort Illinois Police Department concerning criminal sexual abuse charges against you.
4. Controversy surrounding your ministry and personal lifestyle."
After this letter was sent, I believe TS continued to pastor the Ezra Church of God. What did those at the Ezra church know when they asked him to continue or come back as their pastor? What about the folks that approved this? Instead of starting to go after the last place he pastored (in VA), it makes sense to start with those who first allowed TS to continue being a pastor after the initial allegations. If the folks from the VA church knew of any allegations they would have most likely talked to the folks at the Ezra church who allowed him to continue being their pastor.
The fact is Alex and the other victims abuse did not happen at Ezra. It happened in Dun Loring. So, that church is responsible.
That makes sense. What I said above was looking at it from a general perspective.
Looking back now it is easy to say that the General Assembly of the Church of God in IL made the right decision.
By the way, wouldn't it be best to wait until after the criminal trials before starting civil cases?
The fact is the church knew this was coming....One huge question is why didn't John Manly want to go after the church? The fact is there is a case against them, and will be perused.
Thanks to anyone that is able to provide any answers or additional information.
Edit- My responses are in the italic text
Please see my response above in bolded red.
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That is correct. The church will be involved as well. They knew about Tommy Shelton, yet still allowed him to pastor their church! Documentation will prove this.
I may also add unlike, John Manly, this firm believes there is indeed a case against the church, the leaders, and the parties associated with allowing Tommy to regain his license after they was suspended in 1985 by the Anderson Association.
Below are some questions that come to mind after reading Adam's post.
Adam, you said:"They knew about Tommy Shelton, yet still allowed him to pastor their church! Documentation will prove this."
What did the church know and how can this be proven? When you say the church, who at the church? Was the church or someone connected to the church only aware of allegations or did they know more and is this proveable? What did they know in or near 1985? Did they find out more after this and not take action?
The church new of Tommy's past before hiring him to take over Bro. and Sis. Woods position. This can be proven through countless board meeting minutes. Pastor Wood and Sister Wood are guilty parties. They knew about Tommy's past yet allowed him to pastor. They even assigned people to watch over Tommy and monitor him. Why take precautions such as these if they wasn't worried? Why would they ask Tommy to install a glass window in his office door?
When you say they new about his past, discussed it and assigned people to watch over him, I wonder what steps were taken to look into what they heard about his past? What about his past did they know? Did they only ask TS or those who would natually protect him or did they interview those who had accused him? Who was the pastor at the Ezra church at this time? Did they talk to the organization that took his license away to understand the reasons they took that action?
I am unsure. I believe that Arnold Edmondson or Glenn Dryden was the pastor at Ezra at this time. I am saying Byron and Gail Woods was keenly aware of the allegations of Tommy. Tommy even admits that in one of his open letters. Of course they didn't interview those who had accused him...they Took Tommy's word! So, I would assume that No they did not talk to the Anderson Association. They took Tommy's word and hired him! Look what happened now? You have at least two men who have been molested in that church, and God only knows how many more!
Adam, you said: "...and the parties associated with allowing Tommy to regain his license after they was suspended in 1985 by the Anderson Association."
Did TS regain the same license that was suspended in 1985? Or did another organization issue him a new license? Did the regained or new license expire and if so, was it renewed? Who are "the parties associated with allowing Tommy to regain his license?" Does TS still have a license?
No, he did not. However, he did through another association based out of Dun Loring Va. that Pastor Woods was the president of. Who was the parties? Pastor Wood, Glenn Dryden, Arnold Edmondson, just to name a few. I believe Tommy sent his last license back to the counsel.
I remember some bits and pieces of the information that was posted earlier on other sites, but can't remember the exact details. Can someone post the files that were on the blacksda site or other sites that are no longer accessable? What other documentation is available elsewhere related to the VA church and TS?
There must have been statements by people for the letter from "GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE CHURCH OF GOD IN ILLINOIS," (posted on save-3abn.com) to be sent. If so, are these statements documented? According to that letter, there were four reasons they suspended TS's license.
"This action was taken for the following reasons:
1. Improper counseling procedures followed by you and admitted by you.
2. Numerous charges of misconduct reported to this committee.
3. We have been advised that an investigation is underway by the West Frankfort Illinois Police Department concerning criminal sexual abuse charges against you.
4. Controversy surrounding your ministry and personal lifestyle."
After this letter was sent, I believe TS continued to pastor the Ezra Church of God. What did those at the Ezra church know when they asked him to continue or come back as their pastor? What about the folks that approved this? Instead of starting to go after the last place he pastored (in VA), it makes sense to start with those who first allowed TS to continue being a pastor after the initial allegations. If the folks from the VA church knew of any allegations they would have most likely talked to the folks at the Ezra church who allowed him to continue being their pastor.
The fact is Alex and the other victims abuse did not happen at Ezra. It happened in Dun Loring. So, that church is responsible.
That makes sense. What I said above was looking at it from a general perspective.
Looking back now it is easy to say that the General Assembly of the Church of God in IL made the right decision.
By the way, wouldn't it be best to wait until after the criminal trials before starting civil cases?
The fact is the church knew this was coming....One huge question is why didn't John Manly want to go after the church? The fact is there is a case against them, and will be perused.
Thanks to anyone that is able to provide any answers or additional information.
Edit- My responses are in the italic text
Please see my response above in bolded red.
My response is in Blue.
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I see that I have caused a FIRE-STORM with some of the church members who post over here! I will not apologize for relaying facts as I see them. K. Thanks. :)
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I see that I have caused a FIRE-STORM with some of the church members who post over here! I will not apologize for relaying facts as I see them. K. Thanks. :)
But you wouldn't want to upset potential witnesses to the point that they refuse to cooperate with the prosecution, would you?
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Now, Bob, again please!!!!!!!!! Ever heard of Hostile Witnesses?
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For the record, I am not a victim but a benefactor of one of the greatest challenges of my life...and it ain't over til it's over!!!
In the world of litigation you simply move from one phase to the next. We are about to enter the next. Just another challenge!!! And another opportunity...in fact, a real thrill!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Oh, please. You can't tell me that they were victims. :-/
Sure, they're victims of a sort, are they not? Those who were duped by Tommy Shelton?
Some have tried to assert that Duane Clem wasn't a victim because he was over 18 at the time, but I disagree.
I'm a victim of sorts, am I not? Look at all the grief Danny and Tommy have caused me.
But a victim of sorts is not the same as a victim of child molestation. And a victim of sorts is not the same as Moms in Pain #1 and #2.
There are degrees of victims.
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What happened to Mitch?
How about an admission from this quarter that this new firm makes even an Armenian shiver!!!
Decisiveness and direction can be so startlingly fresh!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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I see that I have caused a FIRE-STORM with some of the church members who post over here! I will not apologize for relaying facts as I see them. K. Thanks. :)
FIRESTORM! Wow! Do you mean in the sense of
1. A fire of great size and intensity that generates and is fed by strong inrushing winds from all sides
-or-
2. An intense or violent response
Either way, I'm not seeing it! However, comments often precipitate more comments, ergo a message board or forum.. voila!
Adam, no one expects you to apologize for anything. We are neither hurt nor inflamed nor especially agitated (nor do I know who posts here other than myself - it is simply not on the radar of the average church member in Dunn Loring) Generally I check my email, AT, and Facebook in one fell swoop, and then go live in the non-cyber world like everybody else!
I would suggest that we (Adam, Darvo, Just Wondering, Tinka, Pickle... whomever....) share in common one important thing - a confidence in the Father to work things out to His glory. I am counting on it.
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I would suggest that we (Adam, Darvo, Just Wondering, Tinka, Pickle... whomever....) share in common one important thing - a confidence in the Father to work things out to His glory. I am counting on it.
:TY:
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I see that I have caused a FIRE-STORM with some of the church members who post over here! I will not apologize for relaying facts as I see them. K. Thanks. :)
FIRESTORM! Wow! Do you mean in the sense of
1. A fire of great size and intensity that generates and is fed by strong inrushing winds from all sides
-or-
2. An intense or violent response
I meant both!
Either way, I'm not seeing it! However, comments often precipitate more comments, ergo a message board or forum.. voila!
Adam, no one expects you to apologize for anything. We are neither hurt nor inflamed nor especially agitated (nor do I know who posts here other than myself - it is simply not on the radar of the average church member in Dunn Loring) Generally I check my email, AT, and Facebook in one fell swoop, and then go live in the non-cyber world like everybody else!
I would suggest that we (Adam, Darvo, Just Wondering, Tinka, Pickle... whomever....) share in common one important thing - a confidence in the Father to work things out to His glory. I am counting on it.
I would agree with this.
The fact is this is all going to happen quicker than most realize. These attorney's that Alex has now means business. They are not messing around. Justice is finally in the works, and I pray no one tries to stand in the way. The church did wrong, and the best thing they could do is settle, don't get yourselves involved in nasty litigation. Do the right thing.
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Will Simpson meet his match or more?
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It is about time they target the right church!!! Tommy was NEVER an SDA, just a Shelton worthy of 3ABN support.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
I see that I have caused a FIRE-STORM with some of the church members who post over here! I will not apologize for relaying facts as I see them. K. Thanks. :)
FIRESTORM! Wow! Do you mean in the sense of
1. A fire of great size and intensity that generates and is fed by strong inrushing winds from all sides
-or-
2. An intense or violent response
I meant both!
Either way, I'm not seeing it! However, comments often precipitate more comments, ergo a message board or forum.. voila!
Adam, no one expects you to apologize for anything. We are neither hurt nor inflamed nor especially agitated (nor do I know who posts here other than myself - it is simply not on the radar of the average church member in Dunn Loring) Generally I check my email, AT, and Facebook in one fell swoop, and then go live in the non-cyber world like everybody else!
I would suggest that we (Adam, Darvo, Just Wondering, Tinka, Pickle... whomever....) share in common one important thing - a confidence in the Father to work things out to His glory. I am counting on it.
I would agree with this.
The fact is this is all going to happen quicker than most realize. These attorney's that Alex has now means business. They are not messing around. Justice is finally in the works, and I pray no one tries to stand in the way. The church did wrong, and the best thing they could do is settle, don't get yourselves involved in nasty litigation. Do the right thing.
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GAJ I assume you agree churches including the CCOG should accountable. I am clearly pleading with them to do the right thing. They can either settle or face nasty litigation and bad publicity!
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I am sure the church will not be represented by Greg. I am sure the CCOG will waste little time contacting their insurance company to settle this immediately!
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When will we hear more about Jeff Herman?
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When will we hear more about Jeff Herman?
I'm sure we will be hearing plenty more about Jeff Herman!
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The issue of accountability in litigation is always a challenge as you just do know how a jury will split the pie when there are multiple defendants. Contributory Negligence can also be a factor and limit or eliminate liability (accountability) for some parties.
The most important thing that must be accomplished in discovery and testimony is the finding of sufficient facts by the jury to bring a conclusion based upon the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the Truth, applied to the law.
Gailon Arthur joy
AUReporter a Tea Party Adventist
GAJ I assume you agree churches including the CCOG should accountable. I am clearly pleading with them to do the right thing. They can either settle or face nasty litigation and bad publicity!