Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Bob Pickle on December 26, 2008, 06:44:07 AM
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Lot of interesting stuff in it. For one thing, legal fees for the year were $1,100,545. That's significantly higher than the reported figure for 2006 of $152,654.
The highest paid vendor was the law firm of Siegel Brill, receiving $631,330. Third highest was Fierst, Pucci, and Kane at $121,069. Seven of the eleven attorneys that have come after Gailon and myself come from those two firms.
Fifth highest vendor was Davis Wright Tremaine of Seattle at $68,127. Would that have anything to do with the trust services problems in Washington?
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I maybe wouldn't have started this thread except for this: Jim Gilley signed his name as president and CEO on page 9, right under where it says, "Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have examined this return, including accompanying schedules and statements, and to the best of my knowledge and belief, it is true, correct, and complete."
The instructions for Part V-A state: "List each person who was a current officer, director, trustee, or key employee (defined below) of the organization or disregarded entity described in Regulations sections 301.7701-1 through 301.7701-3 at any time during the year even if they did not receive any compensation from the organization."
Under Part V 3ABN says to look at Statement 9. Turn to Statement 9 and Danny Shelton, not Jim Gilley, is listed as president! Jim Gilley isn't even listed as a director. Neither is Max Trevino, Garwin McNeilus, or Larry Romrell.
Anyone know what is going on? How could Jim Gilley sign the form as president when the form itself says that he isn't president, and that he isn't even a director? Or, how could they have gotten the list of board members wrong when the form wasn't signed until more than a year after Gilley came on board?
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Line 75a says that there are 13 voting officers and directors. Yet statement 9 only lists 12 officers and directors. I don't believe that Larry Ewing, who is listed, was a voting officer, so that would mean that either two names are missing from the list in statement 9, or line 75a should really say 15 or so.
12 - Ewing = 11.
11 + Romrell + Gilley + Garwin + Trevino = 15.
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It takes a long time to catch up?
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Do mistakes like these give you confidence that the organization is being managed in an efficient, competent manner? Or, what sort of explanation can be made for such errors? Why would they make such glaring mistakes?
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It takes a long time to catch up?
That can't be it, Johann. Linda was given the boot in May 2004 thanks to the bald faced lies of Brenda Walsh and Danny Shelton, and perhaps even John Lomacang since he claimed to have seen hundreds of hours of non-existent phone card phone records. The 2004 Form 990 does not list Linda as a current officer or director.
Also, allegedly through document fraud, Danny Shelton forced Nick Miller to resign in 2005. The 2005 Form 990 does not list Nick Miller as a director that year.
I just checked the 2004 and 2005 Form 990 instructions, and it looks like both Linda and Nick should have been reported as directors since they were such "at any time during the year."
And Danny and his cronies, including his brother Ronnie Shelton, want to claim that the IRS didn't find one single discrepancy? What a lie!
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Now here's a question I think every donor to 3ABN should demand an answer to: Did 3ABN pay Danny's personal, private legal expenses in this lawsuit?
If so, how come his compensation is listed as only $78,404?
Perhaps if Danny had to pay his own way, he'd have to go pro se like us. Wouldn't that be interesting? What sort of legal briefs would Danny write?
Now this isn't legal advice, since I'm not a licensed attorney, but I would strongly recommend that Danny not get ticked off at the judge and call him a chocolate covered pile of ____ like he called Dr. Abrahamsen. From a pastoral perspective, it just probably wouldn't sit too well, especially if he's trying to convince the judge that he's the Lord's anointed like Moses and John the Baptist, and that no man on earth can correct him.
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How do donors to 3ABN feel about 3ABN paying so much money to lawyers in order to cover up child molestation allegations and private inurement? Siegel Brill and Fierst Pucci got over three-quarters of a million dollars.
How many evangelistic meetings could have been held with that kind of money?
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They can throw away more than $750,000 at two law firms in order to crush Joy and Pickle, but can't bring themselves to reimburse the ones they've persecuted for the travel expense of a $6 shower bought at a truck stop.
For $750,000 you can buy 125,000 people a shower at that truck stop.
Sounds like a good ADRA commercial, doesn't it?
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And why are these little gems not posted yet for the world to see? After all, 990's are public information, or are you saving Dann Lee Shelton the trauma of the truth?
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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http://www.dwt.com/offloc/seattle.htm
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Under Part V 3ABN says to look at Statement 9. Turn to Statement 9 and Danny Shelton, not Jim Gilley, is not listed as president! Jim Gilley isn't even listed as a director. Neither is Max Trevino, Garwin McNeilus, or Larry Romrell.
Anyone know what is going on? How could Jim Gilley sign the form as president when the form itself says that he isn't president, and that he isn't even a director? Or, how could they have gotten the list of board members wrong when the form wasn't signed until more than a year after Gilley came on board?
I believe the above part that I have bolded is an accidental double negative thus stating the opposite of what you mean. Please correct me if I am wrong.
RBF
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Under Part V 3ABN says to look at Statement 9. Turn to Statement 9 and Danny Shelton, not Jim Gilley, is not listed as president! Jim Gilley isn't even listed as a director. Neither is Max Trevino, Garwin McNeilus, or Larry Romrell.
Anyone know what is going on? How could Jim Gilley sign the form as president when the form itself says that he isn't president, and that he isn't even a director? Or, how could they have gotten the list of board members wrong when the form wasn't signed until more than a year after Gilley came on board?
I believe the above part that I have bolded is an accidental double negative thus stating the opposite of what you mean. Please correct me if I am wrong.
RBF
Good that you help us keep awake. Welcome on AT, RBF
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I believe the above part that I have bolded is an accidental double negative thus stating the opposite of what you mean. Please correct me if I am wrong.
RBF
Thank you for your correction.
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They can throw away more than $750,000 at two law firms in order to crush Joy and Pickle, but can't bring themselves to reimburse the ones they've persecuted for the travel expense of a $6 shower bought at a truck stop.
For $750,000 you can buy 125,000 people a shower at that truck stop.
Sounds like a good ADRA commercial, doesn't it?
Another good question would be: What in the world are they trying to hide that they would be willing to spend three quarters of a million dollars and use numerous attorneys just to try to shut TWO people up?
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I see that Elder Gilley signed and dated it 11/11/08, only four days before the last extension expired. I'd love to know all the issues and discussion that went into the final product!
Oh for that annual report. That will answer a lot more questions.
Do mistakes like these give you confidence that the organization is being managed in an efficient, competent manner? Or, what sort of explanation can be made for such errors? Why would they make such glaring mistakes?
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I think my new friends at the AG's office will be interested in that.
I maybe wouldn't have started this thread except for this: Jim Gilley signed his name as president and CEO on page 9, right under where it says, "Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have examined this return, including accompanying schedules and statements, and to the best of my knowledge and belief, it is true, correct, and complete."
The instructions for Part V-A state: "List each person who was a current officer, director, trustee, or key employee (defined below) of the organization or disregarded entity described in Regulations sections 301.7701-1 through 301.7701-3 at any time during the year even if they did not receive any compensation from the organization."
Under Part V 3ABN says to look at Statement 9. Turn to Statement 9 and Danny Shelton, not Jim Gilley, is listed as president! Jim Gilley isn't even listed as a director. Neither is Max Trevino, Garwin McNeilus, or Larry Romrell.
Anyone know what is going on? How could Jim Gilley sign the form as president when the form itself says that he isn't president, and that he isn't even a director? Or, how could they have gotten the list of board members wrong when the form wasn't signed until more than a year after Gilley came on board?
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I haven't had a chance to look at the whole filing in detail, but here are a few noteworthy items that caught my eye so far:
1. 2007 revenue was down $1.5M from 2006.
2. In 2007, expenses exceeded revenue by $2.1M. Remember - over $1M of that is legal fees.
3. It appears that campmeeting expenses have been reclassified, as the "Camp Meeting" line item reflects a zero balance while a new expense line item called "Conferences, conventions and meetings" shows $17K. Interesting to note that in 2006 over $37K was reported for camp meeting expenses, so if my reclassification assumption is correct, the cost of campmeeting dropped over 50% year-to-year.
4. Their donations to other organizations dropped from $228K in 2006 to $125K in 2007.
5. $74K was spent on "Miscellaneous" and another $23K on "Special Projects" in the management and general expense category...things that make an auditor want a LOT more info...
These are just some quick observations from the P&L. I haven't had a chance to look at the balance sheet yet.
The file is too big to post here. If anyone wants a copy I'll be happy to send it to you.
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Did the $6 shower include soap, shampoo and towel, or just the facility and the water?
They can throw away more than $750,000 at two law firms in order to crush Joy and Pickle, but can't bring themselves to reimburse the ones they've persecuted for the travel expense of a $6 shower bought at a truck stop.
For $750,000 you can buy 125,000 people a shower at that truck stop.
Sounds like a good ADRA commercial, doesn't it?
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Go figure! :oops: Talk about conflict of interest!
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Could that be that none of these people are any longer at 3ABN. Maybe they jumped ship? I saw Jim Gilley on several Christmas programs, but other than that I don't see him anymore! CA Murray is taking the lead. That might be a good move!
I, for one, cannot see Max Trevino just sitting idle and doing nothing! He is an accountant for goodness sake!
Regardless, they are clearly lying about something! I would be pleased to find that they all have jumped ship! If they have, I just gained a growing respect for them!
I maybe wouldn't have started this thread except for this: Jim Gilley signed his name as president and CEO on page 9, right under where it says, "Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have examined this return, including accompanying schedules and statements, and to the best of my knowledge and belief, it is true, correct, and complete."
The instructions for Part V-A state: "List each person who was a current officer, director, trustee, or key employee (defined below) of the organization or disregarded entity described in Regulations sections 301.7701-1 through 301.7701-3 at any time during the year even if they did not receive any compensation from the organization."
Under Part V 3ABN says to look at Statement 9. Turn to Statement 9 and Danny Shelton, not Jim Gilley, is listed as president! Jim Gilley isn't even listed as a director. Neither is Max Trevino, Garwin McNeilus, or Larry Romrell.
Anyone know what is going on? How could Jim Gilley sign the form as president when the form itself says that he isn't president, and that he isn't even a director? Or, how could they have gotten the list of board members wrong when the form wasn't signed until more than a year after Gilley came on board?
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Did the $6 shower include soap, shampoo and towel, or just the facility and the water?
Just the facility, water, and a towel.
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Could that be that none of these people are any longer at 3ABN. Maybe they jumped ship?
The instructions clearly say that if someone has been an officer or director at any time during the year, they have to be reported.
That means that 3ABN filed incorrect answers to that question on returns for at least 2004, 2005, and 2007.
Or have a missed something?
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Here's the main part of the 2007 Form 990.
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And here's the rest of the 2007 Form 990.
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Who prepared this form for the IRS? I am fairly sure Jim Gilley didn't! The fellow that keeps the records is Brian Hamilton. ( Page 7; Part IV; #91 a) Anybody know him?
Page 4, Part IV Balance Sheet Liabilities #64 b) MORTAGES and other notes payable; Balance @ the beginning of the year was $ 440.000. The end of year balance was $ 30,000. Something like $ 410,000 got paid. When did Danny start building his new house? Maybe the $30,000 is Danny's part? Beats me.
I was disappointed to see that only $ 51,139 was used for accounting services. (Page 2; Part II; # 31) They really should have paid more! Guess only high falutin lawyers are good at stealing funds from clients! We accountants are so underpaid! I made a lot more than that!
These lawyers really did not help Danny and 3ABN at all. Do you think the dismissal had anything to do with the high legal fees seen in one lump sum?
I am still trying to figure out how Jim could sign the form as President when he is not even listed as an employee, director or even a board member, much less President! However, the form says Danny is president. Snoopy, please tell the AG ASAP!
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If you recall, we had good intelligence in May that there was a blow-up regrading the governance of 3ABN. Although we did not report it at the time, we were told by some sources that several directors had resigned when the governance did not go the way they seemed to believe it should go. We did not pursue the details at the time as we were quite busy with the spring offensive by 3ABN and the various reports regarding the true status of the IRS Investigation.
In fact, church sources seem to have been quite concerned regarding the governance issue and it seems to be the one issue that remains an open issue with the General Conference entities.
Therefore, this should not be a surprise to those close to the investigative process of the past three years. Now to unravel the truth and the implications and get the information to the stockholders in the pews!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Jim Gilley no longer appears in the credit roll before 3ABN Today.
If he and Trevino are really gone, I am going to rejoice! The last I heard about him was that he had a triple bypass heart surgery. Knowledge about the facts at 3ABN stressed him I am sure! I have worried about him since I read that post!
Max Trevino is a reputable leader! He was the Union Treasurer when I first met him years ago. He is exceptionally knowledgeable in non-profit accounting. He does what is right! I was wondering why he would accept such a position, and thought he may have accepted it in the first place because of Jim Gilley.
I wonder what they did to get Gilley to sign that 990! Maybe it was done this way to keep the blame from pointing to Danny? If that is the case, that pony won't ride!
But, most of all, I will rejoice if Garwin McNeilus left of his free will! However, could he have been fired? We know that Fjarli had the stroke, so is he out of the picture also, or is he listed there because he is no longer able to cause problems! Why is the IL Conference President still there?
It looks like Walt and a few others are going to follow Danny right over the cliff!
Gailon, did this all happen when everyone at 3ABN got to listen to the Brenda Walsh telephone conversation? I am lost right now in my time line with the exact date of the phone call. I got my copy after the fact. That phone call should have hit the board right in the face! Especially when Bob got the Airline information to prove Brenda was a huge liar!
Give us an update on what you find out!
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My information at the time indicated that the Board took up the issue of Governance at 3ABN and it is the point that we were told that Danny clung to power by a single vote. Given the history of politics in Illinois, it does not surprise me that Danny lee Shelton would would be brazen enough to cling to power despite being caught with his hands in the proverbial till.
However, there were also reports on governance and the proposals relating to the governance issue that were reported to the board. Whether the reported resignations came following the faailure to remove Danny Lee Shelton or simply over the question of the future governance of 3ABN is not clear...YET!!! But then, we did not pursue it at the time. We will have to revisit this and other issues as we prepare to report events in the future.
I can tell you that the Governance issue is the one issue that remains the single biggest issue with the SDA Denominational leadership...the fact that they have a miscreant able to raid the stockholders in the pews at will and pretend to be above the law does not seem to bother the brotherhood of denominational leadership, strangely enough!!!
It will take time to dig and come up with the answers to all the questions thus derived, or perhaps we could trust SAM to give us their version...take that, reverse it and you will have something close to the truth.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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The only "miscreant" liar here is you Gailon. When will you learn you have some very poor sources? Your information is always predictably incorrect. There are just too many puzzle pieces that you don't have. Those pieces make all the difference in the whole picture. Why don't you have them? Because you have no first hand knowledge of anything. You depend on moles, ex wives, and deadbeat dads for your information. Everytime you have spread your tired rumors about what goes on in boardmeetings, your scenerios are always laughable. You truly do not have a clue. I loved this where you said "WE WERE TOLD" Danny clung to power by one vote etc etc. To begin with the only person that could tell you what took place in a board meeting are the board members. As I know they do not talk to you, information coming from anyone else is nothing but heresay and gossip. There was nothing of that nature even put on the table, much less a vote taken. You really are being duped by your moles and as many times as your info has been wrong, you still are not getting it. Either that or you are just so desperate to spread evil you just repeat the lies anyway. Let me give you some facts...something foreign to you I realize..
1. Jim Gilley is still very much the president of 3abn and no intention of going anywhere. He has had some major heart problems and surgeries. Problems that followed a long history of heart disease. He has not recovered as quickly as he hoped and has had to let some of the program responsiblities go to others.
2. Max Trevino still sits on the board and is satisfied with the finances and the procedures at 3abn.
3. Larry Romrell still sits on the board and is satisfied with the finances and the procedures at 3abn.
4. Garwin M. has been immobilized with knee replacement surgery but keeps in close contact by phone.
Many plans coming together and good financial news was shared at the annual 3ABN "Day of Prayer". New viewers and supporters are picked up daily due to dish network and several other outlets. The sonshine kids channel is being launched with all kinds of accolades before it even gets started. Huge response to the Shelton and Gilley Holiday specials with requests for more "family" programs.
You claim the conference is "has concerns" over the 3abn governance. Really? Is that why Mark Finley wanted 3abn to tape and air his last set of meetings? Is that why 3abn just recently taped and aired the GYC (youth conference) in California? Is that why there are conference officials on air at 3abn all the time?
Don't delude yourself Gailon. The only thing conference officials are against is you. THey have heard of your methods, tactics, name calling, and evil surmisings and are aware of Satan's words that spew out of your mouth. They know that you delight in trying to find scandel and dirt on different ministries. They also know you are not a reporter or a financial counselor, but just an unhappy, dissatisfied person who tries to make himself look better by gossiping about others. If you keep people's attention on others, maybe they won't look so closely at you. You have proven to everyone that your need to be "somebody" overpowers any moral and ethical behaviour by a proffessed christian. All one has to do is read your own words to see the evil motives and the hatred that lives within your soul. This is why you have lost so many of your own supporters. You are down to a pitiful handful with hearts just as evil as yours.
Face it Gailon your little "claim to fame" is over. You took a good run at it, I'll give you that, but eventually, false information and lies catch up to you. Everyone sees that events you have predicted or were going to "make" happen, never came to fruition. All of your blow and go about the IRS came to nothing. All of your gossip about "board blowups" were shown to be false by the continuation of these people to hold their board seats. Your gossip over the GC being concerned with this or that is proven a lie everytime they are on the air and everytime 3abn travels to tape their events. See Gailon, normal thinking people realize that you have nothing but what other people have told you. You have no personal experience with anything that happens at 3abn. You have no personal experience with any of the leadership there. You have no personal experience with the finances there. You have no personal experience with day to day operations. You have no personal experience with the well known, highly skilled and spiritual people that make up the board. You are privy to nothing. You have to go on what other's tell you. Other's that have their own evil motives and agenda's and are willing to lie, or twist and manipulate the truth. No matter where you go including the GC offices, gossip abounds. The moles at 3abn or T'vill that feed your information are no more privy to anything firsthand than you are but are listening to "office gossip" and then telling it to you as fact. That's why you are always wrong. Anyone that knows Derrell M. will tell you that he can't tell the truth if his life depended on it yet, in court docs, Pickle lists him as one of your "main sources" for information. Again, laughable or maybe pathetic depending on how you look at it.
You claim to know more than me or anyone else. I have been personally involved for many years with 3abn. Again, you have no personal experience but know more than anyone because of your credible sources like Derrell. Fran makes all her defamatory statements while stating that she has never been to 3abn and doesn't personally know anyone there. The whole thing has been and is ludicrous and people have come to realize this.
My advice is to just bow out gracefully instead of digging yourself deeper and deeper by spouting even more untrue and faulty information. People can clearly see that what is happening at 3abn is opposite of what you are saying.
Good Day
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Sam,
Are you calling Jim Gilley a liar? Jim signed the 990, and the 990 lists Danny in the attachment, not Jim, as president.
According to the attachment, Jim, Garwin, Larry Romrell, and Max Trevino were never at any time in 2007 board members of 3ABN.
Thus, we have on the authority of Jim Gilley himself, signed under penalty of perjury, that none of these folks were board members in 2007.
So why are you setting yourself up as knowing more than Jim Gilley?
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Is that why Mark Finley wanted 3abn to tape and air his last set of meetings? Is that why 3abn just recently taped and aired the GYC (youth conference) in California?
Your gossip over the GC being concerned with this or that is proven a lie everytime they are on the air and everytime 3abn travels to tape their events.
All the new digital technology, and 3ABN is still using tape?
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Sam - I am one of the "pitiful handful" with, as you judge me, an "evil" heart. My question to you is why should I believe anything you say? Just because you say so? Not good enough. I am sure you have been asked many times for proof of what you say and I don't remember any given. Are you saying that you were at the board meeting where "nothing of that nature" was put on the table much less a vote taken? That would make you a board member as you stated that the only ones who would know what happened in the board meeting were the board members that were there. If you are not a board member then it would seem that you are gossiping and passing on hearsay. So, which board member are you? :scratch:
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Sam - I am one of the "pitiful handful" with, as you judge me, an "evil" heart. My question to you is why should I believe anything you say? Just because you say so? Not good enough. I am sure you have been asked many times for proof of what you say and I don't remember any given. Are you saying that you were at the board meeting where "nothing of that nature" was put on the table much less a vote taken? That would make you a board member as you stated that the only ones who would know what happened in the board meeting were the board members that were there. If you are not a board member then it would seem that you are gossiping and passing on hearsay. So, which board member are you? :scratch:
A very good question, but will it ever be answered?
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Sam - I am one of the "pitiful handful" with, as you judge me, an "evil" heart. My question to you is why should I believe anything you say? Just because you say so? Not good enough. I am sure you have been asked many times for proof of what you say and I don't remember any given. Are you saying that you were at the board meeting where "nothing of that nature" was put on the table much less a vote taken? That would make you a board member as you stated that the only ones who would know what happened in the board meeting were the board members that were there. If you are not a board member then it would seem that you are gossiping and passing on hearsay. So, which board member are you? :scratch:
A very good question, but will it ever be answered?
Probably not. And of course sam has just become a punching bag by posting here as am I. But I have a question; if Sam is not deemed credible although claiming to be a witness (albeit an anonymous one) and in the know, as at 3abn, and obviously being privy to things outsiders don't know. Then, how is it that so many other anonymous sources who don't prove what they say either, and don't provide facts or evidence which can be verified while accusing 3abn and those at 3abn, ARE deemed credible here, and everything that they say swallowed hook, line and sinker???
If righteous principles and judgment is to be employed shouldn't the same standards be used for all?
My thoughts about why they aren't: one-sidedness, double standards, hypocrisy, bias, unrighteous judgment, being pharaseeical, making and loving lies, titilation by sensational gossip, eagerness to find fault with others, misjudging without all the facts and not wanting to investigate both sides, and jst downright wanting to to believe evil of others.
As far as good questions and not answering goes.. there are many you have not answered, either by offering excuses or outright ignoring them, every time you post claims and accusations.
So, I can see why anyone you disagree with who does that same thing would be a major issue and a problem to you...
In the meantime I will keep inviting you to discuss things everytime you pop in on ******* to post your own stuff without proof, while asking for that, but am coming to the conclusion that you never will.
EDITED to remove misleading link.
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Nice try with the link, Ian. Not enough readers at your site so you have to resort to misleading tactics? I pity you.
Oh, excuse me. Not enough readers at STEFFAN's site?? I suppose that was his clever attempt at re-directing AdventTalk readers?? I pity him too.
Probably not. And of course sam has just become a punching bag by posting here as am I. But I have a question; if Sam is not deemed credible although claiming to be a witness (albeit an anonymous one) and in the know, as at 3abn, and obviously being privy to things outsiders don't know. Then, how is it that so many other anonymous sources who don't prove what they say either, and don't provide facts or evidence which can be verified while accusing 3abn and those at 3abn, ARE deemed credible here, and everything that they say swallowed hook, line and sinker???
If righteous principles and judgment is to be employed shouldn't the same standards be used for all?
My thoughts about why they aren't: one-sidedness, double standards, hypocrisy, bias, unrighteous judgment, being pharaseeical, making and loving lies, titilation by sensational gossip, eagerness to find fault with others, misjudging without all the facts and not wanting to investigate both sides, and jst downright wanting to to believe evil of others.
As far as good questions and not answering goes.. there are many you have not answered, either by offering excuses or outright ignoring them, every time you post claims and accusations.
So, I can see why anyone you disagree with who does that same thing would be a major issue and a problem to you...
In the meantime I will keep inviting you to discuss things everytime you pop in on ******* to post your own stuff without proof, while asking for that, but am coming to the conclusion that you never will.
EDITED to remove misleading link.
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Nice try with the link, Ian. Not enough readers at your site so you have to resort to misleading tactics? I pity you.
Oh, excuse me. Not enough readers at STEFFAN's site?? I suppose that was his clever attempt at re-directing AdventTalk readers?? I pity him too.
EDITED to remove misleading link. -- [AND also edited to remove any mention of any discussion there, and the very name of the forum, right?]
:ROFL:
But sadly your reaction is so very predictable, Snoopy...
God forbid that Johann should answer questions in response to what he himself brought up and insinuated elsewhere???
Afraid of opposition or competition? Dedicated to censorship?
You don't have to answer those things, the readers and lurkers are certainly capable of, and can certainly decide that for themselves.
"Freedom of speech"-- what a concept, and what a nice banner you sport about that here...
laters Lynette...
edited to add red font clarificatin to be precise.
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Yes, Cindy. The readers can and will decide things for themselves. What we don't need here is you and your little friends playing games and trying to trick people into reading your smut site.
Laters, Mrs. Ford.
:ROFL:
But sadly your reaction is so very predictable, Snoopy...
God forbid that Johann should answer questions in response to what he himself brought up and insinuated elsewhere???
Afraid of opposition or competition? Dedicated to censorship?
You don't have to answer those things, the readers and lurkers are certainly capable of, and can certainly decide that for themselves.
"Freedom of speech"-- what a concept, and what a nice banner you sport about that here...
laters Lynette...
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Ian
I used to try that garbage on my mother and my children used to try it on me. "Brother did the same thing and he didn't get in trouble." We were not talking about other posters. I asked Sam a very specific question as she/he was indicating that she/he had first hand information on that board meeting and stated that only board members would know what really went on. Therefore she is either passing on gossip or is a board member. If she/he wants to be seen as "in the know" a simple answer would go a long ways. She/He can say, tell the ocean dries up, that she/he is in the know but anyone could do the same.
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What tricky deceptive little buggers you are Steffan and Ian. Its sad that you have to practice decption to get visitors and it reflects what they find there. Its not smart or clever, just deceptive. :-[
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Ian
I used to try that garbage on my mother and my children used to try it on me. "Brother did the same thing and he didn't get in trouble." We were not talking about other posters. I asked Sam a very specific question as she/he was indicating that she/he had first hand information on that board meeting and stated that only board members would know what really went on. Therefore she is either passing on gossip or is a board member. If she/he wants to be seen as "in the know" a simple answer would go a long ways. She/He can say, tell the ocean dries up, that she/he is in the know but anyone could do the same.
GRAT, :purr:
I believe you misunderstood me. I understood and can actually agree with your point and your questions to Sam. :dogwag:
You should do that, but you should not leave the other undone. What I didn't and don't agree with is the one-sidedness and why you aren't all equally diligent about questioning others, or get so upset when others do, because as you say "anyone can do the same" and they in fact have done so and continue to do so.
Gailon and Pickle have based their whole case on anonymous sources and on people claiming to be "in the know" and you and many others here accept and believe it all without the questions. The whole "Televangelist" and even the "unauthorized history, written by Sister all the same, with anonymous posters and sockpuppets all jumping up and claiming to be "in the know" and saying "yep that's true". Whole threads here and elsewhere written by anonymous people caiming to be "in the know" and accusing or insinuating- all without any proof whatsoever. CRYSTAL's thread for example. :oops:
Have you ever once questioned any of them as you rightfully did Sam?
Why not, GRAT? :rabbit:
That said- about the board meeting...
I wasn't there, I don't know what did or did not happen, but this I do know. The burden of proof lies on the one asserting a claim, in this instance that would be Gailon Joy and his "anonymouse source" not on the one denying it, in this instance- anonymous Sam.
Something, I did learn as a child-- positives can be proved, but negatives are a different story.
I just wish people would think here. :puppykisses:
I probably shouldn't be here or post more here, as it just seems to antagonize and bring out the accuser in members here, :hamster: so am going back to the forum labeled "smut" and "*******" because it's real name is forbidden, and banned here. :ROFL:
Have a good day, GRAT. :wave:
...ian
edited to add the word "on" for clarification purposes...
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Gailon and Pickle have based their whole case on anonymous sources and people claiming to be "in the know" and you and many others here accept and believe it all without the questions.
Huh? How can you say a thing like this when you've known otherwise for more than two years now?
Since when are Danny, Walt, Lomacang, Mollie, Shelley Quinn, Mike Riva, Gerald Duffy, and IRS Form 990's simply anonymous sources and people claiming to be in the know?
And how can you characterize named alleged victims of sexual assault and child molestation in that manner?
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Sam ... That would make you a board member as you stated that the only ones who would know what happened in the board meeting were the board members that were there. .... So, which board member are you?
I thought the court case forbid the plaintiffs and defendants from direct contact with each other. If SAM is a board member and he/she is writing directly to Bob Pickle here on this forum, wouldn't that violate the law?
SDAminister
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Gailon and Pickle have based their whole case on anonymous sources and people claiming to be "in the know" and you and many others here accept and believe it all without the questions. The whole "Televangelist" and even the "unauthorized history, written by Sister all the same, with anonymous posters and sockpuppets all jumping up and claiming to be "in the know" and saying "yep that's true". Whole threads here and elsewhere written by anonymous people caiming to be "in the know" and accusing or insinuating- all without any proof whatsoever. CRYSTAL's thread for example.
Ian,
Have you heard of William Franklin Graham Jr., known also as Billy Graham, the evangelist? He began his ministry around 1950, and he is still an evangelist today, 60 years after he began to hold his first evangelistic meeting. Billy Graham has been a man of integrity. People have tried many times to find something hidden in his closet, but they have never been able to smudge, tarnish him, damage his reputation, or take his good name away. He is a man known for his good name and his integrity.
Besides his human defects and shortcomings, Billy Graham has been an example for all the evangelists of the modern times. He has been living a Christian life. I have never heard of rumors about him and his actions that have negatively affected his ministry. He has never been accused of improper conduct with women, improper financial management of his ministry, improper treatment of the people who worked for him, and improper treatment of his family. He can hold his head high because he has lived a Christian life without reproach.
The same thing cannot be said about Danny Shelton. For more than a decade have been rumors of misconduct on his part. Previous employees of 3ABN have complained about his abusive behavior and about the fact that all those who disagreed with him got fired. There are many witnesses who can testify to it. He has been accused of improper conduct with women, improper financial management of his ministry, improper treatment of the people who worked for him, and improper treatment of his family. He cannot hold his head high because he has never lived a Christian life without reproach. He is smudged and tarnished, his reputation is damaged, and his name is infamous.
Danny Shelton has done more damage than good to 3ABN. By Biblical standards he is a fool, that is, he lacks the Divine wisdom that would guide his conduct and work. There is no doubt that he is a coarse man, of low intelligence and vulgar vocabulary. If I remember correctly, one of his favorite words in his messages to Linda was “poop.” Now, is this the language of a Christian or of a “prophet”? I have STUDIED him for a while, and I am not deceived. Danny is a whitewashed wall, a pretender, an impostor. Had he not been a fool, he would have recognized that his reputation had been damaged beyond repair, and his name had become infamous. He would have gone quietly and silently away, living to other people the administration of 3ABN.
His lawsuit against Bob and Gailon is evidence, for the wise, that there is truth to Bob and Gailon’s accusations, and to all the rumors that have been floating around Danny Shelton for all these years. Why would a man hire THIRTEEN lawyers and spend MORE THAN A MILLION DOLLARS from the 3ABN money against two insignificant individuals, in order to try to repair what can never be repaired, a damaged reputation, and a tarnished name? Only a FOOL would do that, and that is what Danny Shelton is, a coarse, vulgar fool with an infamous name. He has become a very dangerous liability to 3ABN, and the fools in the 3ABN administration should get rid of him as soon as possible.
Eduard
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Danny Shelton...... has become a very dangerous liability to 3ABN, and the fools in the 3ABN administration should get rid of him as soon as possible.
Eduard
They could even get rid of themselves in the process. But I don't think that will happen. For in fact, they are mostly all fawning sycophants of the "anointed one".
I guess Isaiah had it right:
His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. Isaiah 56:10
SDAminister
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my oopsie..
please remove.
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Ian - Crystal has never stated anything as fact that I can remember. She asked questions. Some things I choose to ignore as there is enough that is documented to convince me.
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I received two complete copies of the 3ABN 2007 Annual Report. If anyone needs it, please PM me. Fran - you're a given!!
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Thank you Snoopy!
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I still haven't had a chance to review the 2007 Annual Report in detail, but I did notice one interesting thing. Remember the $1.1M in legal fees from the IRS Form 990?? In the Annual Report they are referred to as "Professional Fees"!! Now, why the change? Are they trying to hide the fact that they spent over $1M of donor funds "defending the truth"? Why try to camouflage that? Why not just call it what it is?