Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Bob Pickle on July 03, 2009, 02:31:43 PM
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Who is president of 3ABN? Anyone know? Can you prove it?
Why do I ask? I believe it was on September 6, 2007, that Danny Shelton et. al. announced on 3ABN that Jim Gilley was no president.
However, Larry Ewing on September 26, 2007, signed the annual report 3ABN must file with the state of Michigan, which then was received by Michigan on October 1, 2007. Page 2 of that form says that Danny Shelton is president. See the form at http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-127-44.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-127-44.pdf).
According to http://www.michigan.gov/dleg/0,1607,7-154-35299_35413-136482--,00.html (http://www.michigan.gov/dleg/0,1607,7-154-35299_35413-136482--,00.html), Larry was required to report who was president as of the due date of the report, which according to the report was October 1, 2007:
Q. If the corporation officers and/or directors change after I file my report, do I need to file another report for the same year?
A. Only one filing is required for each report year. The updated information would be provided on the next report owed by the corporation. The information on the report or statement (officers/directors, purposes, resident agent, registered office, etc.) should reflect information as of the due date of the report.
Larry Ewing moved on, and Brian Hamilton took his place. Brian filed the following form with the state of Florida on April 16, 2008: http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-127-45.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-127-45.pdf). He reported how he had replaced Larry Ewing as "T" for treasurer. He also reported Danny as "PD" for president/director.
I find it highly unlikely that Brian Hamilton, who had I believe been a treasurer for a conference, would have been so sloppy as to falsely state that Danny was president when Jim Gilley was. And not that Larry left and Brian came onboard long after Jim allegedly replaced Danny.
Thus, based on these official filings by 3ABN with two different states, Danny is still president, and Jim Gilley is not. Therefore, people who think that things have changed, that there is a new administration, have been suckered and deceived.
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But it isn't that simple to figure out what is really going on.
Brian Hamilton filed the above form on April 16, 2008. 15 days earlier Jim Gilley signed an ownership report filed with the FCC. See it at http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-185-6.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-185-6.pdf).
Jim certified that he was president, and listed Danny Shelton as vice-president.
I seem to recall that after we raised the question of why Danny was listed as vice-president, that Mollie Steenson was made VP.
At any rate, it is difficult to find out the truth of what is going on at 3ABN. Jim and Danny tell the public that Danny is no longer president, then Larry tells Michigan that Danny still is president, then Jim tells the FCC that Jim is president, then Brian tells Florida that Danny is president.
If they are going to be telling the public such drastically contradictory statements, I don't see how members of the public can trust them with their money.
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We raised questions about who was president in court filings last October, and in our appeal this spring. I truly would like to know what is going on. Anyone know?
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We can only go by what appears under their name on 3ABN.
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I believe we should rely on documentation to tell the truth. They lie right in front of God and to the viewers on the air. Jim Gilly calls Danny the founder and consultant. They lied about Linda, Johann, Brandy and many other things! Yet, I still see Danny on the TV! He is not gone by any means.
Here he is divorced again! He is still not gone!
What I see on 3ABN is not worth believing. However, for those just reading the screen believe Danny is gone. Yet he is not! Viewers have no clue. Jim would not lie according to many. Sorry about that folks!
I agree with Daryl, for those who just watch TV have to believe the lies that are on the big screen!
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Well, seeing as Danny is still co-founder, and the only co-founder left there at the moment(no telling what kind fo twist this mess might take), he can appear on his network anytime he gets ready. Why did any assume because Danny stepped down from president, and being visible each and everyday, that he would disappear?
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True that!
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wHO IS PRESIDENT OF 3abn? wHO IS CO-FOUNDER? iS dANNY DIVORCED AGAIN AND FROM WHOM?
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Lorraine,
While we have it from good sources that Danny and his third wife Brandy are separated, we don't know that they have divorced at this point in time. They were talking about splitting up by the fall of 2007.
Linda Shelton and Danny Shelton are supposed to be co-founders of 3ABN. Some believe Kenny Shelton should be listed as a co-founder.
Who is president? I'd still like to know that. The board minutes of the fall of 2007 would be helpful in that regard, but Simpson refused to give them to us.
We have some official documents saying that Jim Gilley is president, and other official documents saying that Danny is president.
It is also helpful to remember that there are a lot of 3ABN organizations. I would like to know who are the officers and directors of each and every one of those organizations.
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We can only go by what appears under their name on 3ABN.
Daryl,
What is on a screen on television, the lal la land of America, is not the "official" record...documents submitted to governmental enetities under penalty and pain of perjury should be the true and correct "official" documents, right? Or wrong? But, then, what is a little perjury at 3ABN??? After all, Danny repeats repeatedly that they are there to "counteract the counterfeit", which leads one to wonder just what is real and what is counterfeit??? Is there any real at all in the land of Televangelism???
Could IAN enlighten us, or further add to the dillusion?
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Who is president of 3ABN? Anyone know? Can you prove it?
Jim Gilley. Well all at 3abn, including their board, say and believe he is, and he has the President's office there,and if you need to talk to or have a meeting with the 3abn president you are directed to that office and your phone calls and emails are directed to and answered by him, as President. And Jim Gilley claims to be the president, and travels, does appearances and acts as the 3abn President, and their website says he is, and he appears on all their broadcasts in person and in the credits, or ministry publications as President. Can you prove he's not? Of course not... This is a joke, right?
Why do I ask? I believe it was on September 6, 2007, that Danny Shelton et. al. announced on 3ABN that Jim Gilley was no president.
You must mean that they announced that "Jim Gilley was *now* president." ?
However, Larry Ewing on September 26, 2007, signed the annual report 3ABN must file with the state of Michigan, which then was received by Michigan on October 1, 2007. Page 2 of that form says that Danny Shelton is president. See the form at http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-127-44.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-127-44.pdf).
Wow, was the form filed for the period that DS was still acting as 3abn President, or did the state of Michigan just not have their files updated? and does that change the info which was required to be filed or necessary, or are you just quibbling and getting out your microscope in order to try and find fault, and create a problem when there isn't one?
Looks like that to me... and sorry, but you and your arguments look funny to me also... ;)
snipped the rest...
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Wow, was the form filed for the period that DS was still acting as 3abn President, or did the state of Michigan just not have their files updated?
That form is supposed to be filed to inform Michigan when changes are made. If Jim Gilley really was president at that time, then Ewing should have filled out the form accordingly.
It's Ewing's problem, not the state of Michigan.
I see you made no comment as to Brian Hamilton reporting to the state of Florida 6 months later than Danny Shelton was still president.
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Wow, was the form filed for the period that DS was still acting as 3abn President, or did the state of Michigan just not have their files updated?
That form is supposed to be filed to inform Michigan when changes are made. If Jim Gilley really was president at that time, then Ewing should have filled out the form accordingly.
It's Ewing's problem, not the state of Michigan.
I see you made no comment as to Brian Hamilton reporting to the state of Florida 6 months later than Danny Shelton was still president.
You certainly major in minutia, Mr Pickle. This is all I have to say here as this whole topic is just plain ridiculous and petty, and a waste of time to me. Most normal people who have had any kind of dealings with financial filings and reports (such as Ewing - for one) know that annual filings are usually filed for the previous fiscal year. Fact: Danny Shelton was the acting President in 2006, and for most of 2007 as reported in 2007. You shouldn't have even expected to find Jim Gilley listed until the following year. Again, move on, and stop trying to make mountains out of molehills and create problems when there really aren't any.
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If you believe that reporting anything other than the current officers is legally permissible in both Florida and Michigan, then by all means quote the applicable form instructions or statutes. But I do recall the instructions for at least one of those forms stating otherwise.
The problem is that Danny is a liar, and pretty devious. Thus, when one runs across these discrepancies, it is fair to ask questions.
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So, to be clear, there should not be financial fillings and reports with Jim Gilley's name as president until they filed in 2009 for financial filings and reports in 2008.
That make perfect sense to me. I just have one question. What would happen for 2007 when they both served, would that just be noted when Pastor Gilley to over?
Having someone what of a finance background, this is just a question for information sake.
You certainly major in minutia, Mr Pickle. This is all I have to say here as this whole topic is just plain ridiculous and petty, and a waste of time to me. Most normal people who have had any kind of dealings with financial filings and reports (such as Ewing - for one) know that annual filings are usually filed for the previous fiscal year. Fact: Danny Shelton was the acting President in 2006, and for most of 2007 as reported in 2007. You shouldn't have even expected to find Jim Gilley listed until the following year. Again, move on, and stop trying to make mountains out of molehills and create problems when there really aren't any.
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So, to be clear, there should not be financial fillings and reports with Jim Gilley's name as president until they filed in 2009 for financial filings and reports in 2008.
I feel I need to say this here: Although I may not always agree with you, I certainly do appreciate and applaud your uncompromising way of addressing all and trying to get to the bottom of the issues and establish things here. Thank you. I know it doesn't always earn you the popularity vote., but I like that. (Actually, your post here is the only thing which made me change my mind about posting further here.) So, in reply and to be as clear here, and as honest as I can; I really don't personally know all the specifics regarding all the filings and due dates, Princessdi. I wish I could be more precise.
The truth is some may have been due in 2008, while others would have been due in 2009. 3ABN, has various licensing in different states, and even countries around the world in relation to their broadcasts and the years which each require reports for vary because their fiscal or annual/biannual report dates are each different. What I do know is that it is 3ABN's financial officers job to be apprised of and knowledgeable about all of that and that Ewing has the highest recommendations and track record and steller character references, and that even Gailon joy posted here to that effect when Ewing had to resign due to family issues unrelated to his job. Because of that and more, I believe he knew what he was doing and filing and why.
That make perfect sense to me. I just have one question. What would happen for 2007 when they both served, would that just be noted when Pastor Gilley to over?
Having someone what of a finance background, this is just a question for information sake.[/color]
Please bear with me here. Usually only one report can be filed a year. and Mr Pickle was correct when he quoted the state of Michigan requirements:
"Q. If the corporation officers and/or directors change after I file my report, do I need to file another report for the same year?
A. Only one filing is required for each report year. The updated information would be provided on the next report owed by the corporation. The information on the report or statement (officers/directors, purposes, resident agent, registered office, etc.) should reflect information as of the due date of the report."
The info did indeed need to reflect the current info as of the report. I believe and think it did. I believe the problem with Bob's understanding and POV is based on the fact that he misunderstood, and still does. Yes, 3abn announced on a September 6, 2007 broadcast that Jim Gilley had been asked to be the new President of 3abn and that he had accepted that request, and so according to the vote of the 3abn board he was the new 3abn President. What Pickle fails to understand is that Jim Gilley did not take over the next day. He fails to understand or consider that there was an interim period, and that during that period, [actually just 20 dys later] Larry Ewing filed his report on September 26, 2007. During that interim period Danny Shelton continued to both be and act as President, while Jim Gilley was trained in his new job and position..
This concept, and the way it worked, are really not so hard to understand if you think about and consider both the election and the inauguration of our own U.S. Presidents. Our new President is voted in and declared the new President after the Nov 4th elections, but he does not actually take office or begin to act as such until after his own training/the interim periods between Presidents is over. That occurs when things are actually handed over to him months later in January of the new year.
It is my belief this was the case with the 3abn presidents also, and the messages of the 3abn presidents in the 3abn publication "3abn world" reflects this changing of the guard. Danny Shelton continued to write them even after Jim Gilley was announced as the new President, and then Jim Gilley took over and has been doing so ever since. All of this, I can and do believe accounts for apparent discrepancy's in dates and reports of who the 3abn president is and was.
I hope and pray this all makes perfect sense also. ;)
In any case, Happy Sabbath, Princessdi.
3D
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You certainly major in minutia, Mr Pickle. This is all I have to say here as this whole topic is just plain ridiculous and petty, and a waste of time to me. Most normal people who have had any kind of dealings with financial filings and reports (such as Ewing - for one) know that annual filings are usually filed for the previous fiscal year. Fact: Danny Shelton was the acting President in 2006, and for most of 2007 as reported in 2007. You shouldn't have even expected to find Jim Gilley listed until the following year. Again, move on, and stop trying to make mountains out of molehills and create problems when there really aren't any.
It is eactly this kind of "minutia" that sends wall street magnates and fraudsters to jail based upon filings to the SEC and various federal agencies. Now explain to me how an officer that ended his role in August 2007 would be signing as an officer in 2008? And explain to me how Brian Hamilton would not know better? My curiosity is just killing the cat!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Danny led people to believe that Jim Gilley had taken over as president and CEO at the beginning of September 2007. Ewing's filing at the end of September said otherwise.
But Hamilton's filing in April 2008, in which Hamilton said he had taken over Ewing's position, still said Danny was president. But Gilley had allegedly been president much longer than Hamilton had been treasurer by that point in time.
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Danny led people to believe that Jim Gilley had taken over as president and CEO at the beginning of September 2007. Ewing's filing at the end of September said otherwise.
But Hamilton's filing in April 2008, in which Hamilton said he had taken over Ewing's position, still said Danny was president. But Gilley had allegedly been president much longer than Hamilton had been treasurer by that point in time.
Bob, It bears repeating, that the IRS investigated 3abn, and found nothing wrong, no errors or discepencies needing to be corrected and certainly no crimes or fraud as you 2 would have all believe.I don't think either you or Gailon want to understand. The explanation provided earlier to you:
You certainly major in minutia, Mr Pickle. This is all I have to say here as this whole topic is just plain ridiculous and petty, and a waste of time to me. Most normal people who have had any kind of dealings with financial filings and reports (such as Ewing - for one) know that annual filings are usually filed for the previous fiscal year. Fact: Danny Shelton was the acting President in 2006, and for most of 2007 as reported in 2007. You shouldn't have even expected to find Jim Gilley listed until the following year. Again, move on, and stop trying to make mountains out of molehills and create problems when there really aren't any."
does make perfect sense, and is demonstrated perfectly in these image clips from the 2007 form 990 filed by 3abn.
Note the dates being reported for:
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(I am sorry I had to post my reply in 2 parts due to file limits set by the forum)
Now please notice:
The above is the form filed for the year ending December 2007
Brian Hamilton is listed as the Financial officer.
Danny Shelton is listed as 3abn President.
But it is signed by the 3abn President, Jim Gilley.
And the date the form was filed and signed was November 2008.
And please note that is all perfectly correct and legal whether you choose to get it or not...
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Danny led people to believe that Jim Gilley had taken over as president and CEO at the beginning of September 2007. Ewing's filing at the end of September said otherwise.
But Hamilton's filing in April 2008, in which Hamilton said he had taken over Ewing's position, still said Danny was president. But Gilley had allegedly been president much longer than Hamilton had been treasurer by that point in time.
Bob, It bears repeating, that the IRS investigated 3abn, and found nothing wrong, no errors or discepencies needing to be corrected and certainly no crimes or fraud as you 2 would have all believe.
Cindy, it bears repeating that no one has produced a shred of evidence to that effect. Got any evdience? Then roll it out!
Besides, such is absolutely impossible. Danny's reporting horses as cash donations (probably inflated) in 2003 is more than simply a discrepancy.
does make perfect sense, and is demonstrated perfectly in these image clips from the 2007 form 990 filed by 3abn.
Note the dates being reported for:
And read the instructions for that form, Cindy. You'll find that Jim Gilley's name should have appeared on the list in the attachment if he had been a director or officer at any point in time in 2007. Gilley's name isn't even on the list. So according to the list, Gilley falsely signed the 990, falsely claiming to be the president and CEO of 3ABN. Or, according to his signature, when he signed it saying that to the best of his knowledge and belief everything was correct, why didn't he notice that his name wasn't in the list of officers and directors in the attachment, and that the form wasn't correct after all?
And you want us to believe that the IRS found no errors or discrepancies? Even folk who don't work for the IRS can find errors and discrepancies in 3ABN's filings.
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(I am sorry I had to post my reply in 2 parts due to file limits set by the forum)
Now please notice:
The above is the form filed for the year ending December 2007
Brian Hamilton is listed as the Financial officer.
No, the form lists Larry Ewing as Treasurer, not Brian Hamilton.
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(I am sorry I had to post my reply in 2 parts due to file limits set by the forum)
Now please notice:
The above is the form filed for the year ending December 2007
Brian Hamilton is listed as the Financial officer.
No, the form lists Larry Ewing as Treasurer, not Brian Hamilton.
Bob, Larry Ewing is listed as Treasurer in the same place Danny Shelton is listed as President.... Under the heading which says:
990 SUPPLIMENTAL INFORMATION
YEAR ENDING DECEMBER 31, 2007
STATEMENT 9 FORM 990 PART V-A
LIST OF OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, TRUSTEES, AND KEY EMPLOYEES
But above that on line 91A where the current info has to be supplied, just as a current officer, Jim Gilley signed it all, ... it says " The books are in the care of: Brian Hamilton Located at:" and then lists both 3abn's physical and mailing address.
As I said you quite obviously don't want to understand, and so be it, but I at least wanted to come back and point this out in case you confuse others with your arguments because you also quite obviously did not see, or did not want to see, this attachment which was in my post. So I am attaching it here again.
Now I am done here on this subject.
Merry Christmas to both you and your family, Bob.
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Thank you, 3D. There are things about both sides of this issues that make absolutely no sense to me., so I question it all, in order to get a better understanding of the entire picture.
Yes your answer makes perfect sense, and is as I thought. 3ABN need to record accuately who was president when the financial records were created for that particular year. Pastor Gilley had not yet taken the helm, so the financial records was created on Danny's watch, his name goes on the reports. Simple!
I feel I need to say this here: Although I may not always agree with you, I certainly do appreciate and applaud your uncompromising way of addressing all and trying to get to the bottom of the issues and establish things here. Thank you. I know it doesn't always earn you the popularity vote., but I like that. (Actually, your post here is the only thing which made me change my mind about posting further here.) So, in reply and to be as clear here, and as honest as I can; I really don't personally know all the specifics regarding all the filings and due dates, Princessdi. I wish I could be more precise.
The info did indeed need to reflect the current info as of the report. I believe and think it did. I believe the problem with Bob's understanding and POV is based on the fact that he misunderstood, and still does. Yes, 3abn announced on a September 6, 2007 broadcast that Jim Gilley had been asked to be the new President of 3abn and that he had accepted that request, and so according to the vote of the 3abn board he was the new 3abn President. What Pickle fails to understand is that Jim Gilley did not take over the next day. He fails to understand or consider that there was an interim period, and that during that period, [actually just 20 dys later] Larry Ewing filed his report on September 26, 2007. During that interim period Danny Shelton continued to both be and act as President, while Jim Gilley was trained in his new job and position..
This concept, and the way it worked, are really not so hard to understand if you think about and consider both the election and the inauguration of our own U.S. Presidents. Our new President is voted in and declared the new President after the Nov 4th elections, but he does not actually take office or begin to act as such until after his own training/the interim periods between Presidents is over. That occurs when things are actually handed over to him months later in January of the new year.
It is my belief this was the case with the 3abn presidents also, and the messages of the 3abn presidents in the 3abn publication "3abn world" reflects this changing of the guard. Danny Shelton continued to write them even after Jim Gilley was announced as the new President, and then Jim Gilley took over and has been doing so ever since. All of this, I can and do believe accounts for apparent discrepancy's in dates and reports of who the 3abn president is and was.
I hope and pray this all makes perfect sense also. ;)
In any case, Happy Sabbath, Princessdi.
3D
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Thank you, 3D. There are things about both sides of this issues that make absolutely no sense to me., so I question it all, in order to get a better understanding of the entire picture.
Yes your answer makes perfect sense, and is as I thought. 3ABN need to record accuately who was president when the financial records were created for that particular year. Pastor Gilley had not yet taken the helm, so the financial records was created on Danny's watch, his name goes on the reports. Simple!
Di,
When Brian Hamilton told the state of Florida in April 2008 that Danny was still president, Jim Gilley had already told the FCC that he was president, and that Danny was vice-president.
So Danny_Defender's explanation is inadequate.
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But why was he saying that? Was it in reference to financial records for 2007? Or when Danny was president? Or in response to something dealing with the then present day to day operations of 3ABN? That type of comment almost always has a context.
Di,
When Brian Hamilton told the state of Florida in April 2008 that Danny was still president, Jim Gilley had already told the FCC that he was president, and that Danny was vice-president.
So Danny_Defender's explanation is inadequate.
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Getting right to the point what was the intent to maybe give false information. Was it with the intent to misrepresent the actual state of affairs and cause a reliance by another party causing damamge or was it just a slight case of misinformation between staff ie. lack of communication with no criminal or tort intent. :dunno:
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But why was he saying that? Was it in reference to financial records for 2007? Or when Danny was president? Or in response to something dealing with the then present day to day operations of 3ABN? That type of comment almost always has a context.
On that form, Brian Hamilton reported that he had replaced Larry Ewing as treasurer. Ewing left long after Gilley arrived. Brian arrived long after Gilley arrived.
So your question as to whether it was in reference to 2007 financial records has to be "No," since Hamilton wasn't even there in 2007.