Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Fran on July 18, 2009, 04:26:08 PM
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This week on 3ABN Today, Shelly Quinn announced their plans for their 25th anniversary celebration.
They are planning programming that will be called Pillars. They will start with William Miller as the beginning of Seventh-day Adventists. They plan to visit the Pillars of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Then Shelly said that 3ABN would be included in the Pillars of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
3ABN is non-denominational. How can they be a Pillar of the Seventh-day Adventist Church?
To me this is their plan to make 3ABN the biggest Pillar in the church! Yet, they are not even Seventh-day Adventist. How deceitful can they be? The Seventh-day Adventist church needs to counteract the counterfeit of 3ABN! They aren't even a part of the Seventh-day Adventist church!
I am disgusted!
Divorce, adultery, fornication, lying, cheating, thievery are the pillars of 3ABN! I hear there is yet another marriage split at the top pillar of 3ABN that will of course be hidden and lied about! Will it be explained away as continuing education? I wonder how much money coming in from the elderly widows will be used to cover this one up! Maybe Brenda can spread the lies again. She has such good experience in this area!
They are about as far from a Pillar of the Seventh-day Adventist church as the seat of the Antichrist. In my opinion, the could well be the Antichrist because they clam to be what they are not! They preach it, but are far from living it. They refuse to cut the cancer out of their midst. They have made an ICON of this cancer! Wrong,Wrong, Wrong!
They just keep sweeping the sins of this cancer under the carpet and lie to cover up this evil person's sins! They are basing their whole existence on this evil, cancerous person! Isn't that called idolatry?
NO, THEY ARE NOT A PILLAR OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH, AND NEVER WILL BE AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUE TO HIDE AND COVER THE CANCEROUS BEAST!
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A lot of SDA know this is going on and the top is not making any waves about it.
It appears the wheat and tares are separating as well and the same as the whole nation. The followers and Idolizers put advanced corruption to give power to the beast as a nation advances to destruction and the church (as we know it, the same)
The evil is advancing and we are romancing.
The wheat are the church separated. God knows who they are. The organization appears to be in the money pit too as the tares take their shares.
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Maybe "Samson" will show up and take down a couple of "pillars".
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Is it possible that the same person who claims to have built the 3abn temple it is the one who has taken it down? Just so the pillars of the church don't come down with it because everything has insidiously become so entangled especially in Illinois.
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No institution can be a pillar of a True Church. The pillar is Jesus Christ and His teachings which bring us to Him.
It is my feeling that calling a man or an institution a pillar of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is contrary to the teachings of Scripture and should not be advocated by a media supporting the doctrines of the Church. This could be as great a great danger as teaching evolution.
Jeremiah 17:5
Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
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OH!!!!Yes......AMEN and Amen...I could not agree with you more Johann....Christ has been left out as the Pillar of the church.....and it is so sad.......Thank you so much for that post..............
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I see you are all still running down rabbit trails. How sad that as per usual it all started with a misrepresentation of what was really said, and that not one of you attempted to verify the accuracy of what was said before setting off pell mell down your judgmental path jumping on all who are not you on the way...
People life is just too short to spend so much time doing this...
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What was said?
I see you are all still running down rabbit trails. How sad that as per usual it all started with a misrepresentation of what was really said, and that not one of you attempted to verify the accuracy of what was said before setting off pell mell down your judgmental path jumping on all who are not you on the way...
People life is just too short to spend so much time doing this...
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I see you are all still running down rabbit trails. How sad that as per usual it all started with a misrepresentation of what was really said, and that not one of you attempted to verify the accuracy of what was said before setting off pell mell down your judgmental path jumping on all who are not you on the way...
People life is just too short to spend so much time doing this...
Hmmm, might be because the :rabbit: is eating all the carrots!! and the :beagle: are a coming in the rabbit trails made by the :rabbit:
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Why can't you tell us what was said. I know what I heard!
I see you are all still running down rabbit trails. How sad that as per usual it all started with a misrepresentation of what was really said, and that not one of you attempted to verify the accuracy of what was said before setting off pell mell down your judgmental path jumping on all who are not you on the way...
People life is just too short to spend so much time doing this...
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A suggestion for a book title: Secrets on a Rabbit Trail
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John 3:20,21
I have never in my life seen such intense attempts to conceal and hide what has happened.
I am not saying that John 3:20, 21 is deinitely why there are attempts at concealment. I just cannot for the life of me come up with any other reason why they are not open about everything. Why try for protective orders and make attemts to have almost everything considered cofidential or secret. Why withhold evidence that clearly should vindicate them? And this seems to have been the pattern in every case in the past including the Illinois tax case.
Edited to explain my concerns.
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All's quiet on the eastern front. Has been for 4 days now, going on 5.
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Is this the calm before the storm?
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Is this the calm before the storm?
Either that or 'the others' have decided there is no point arguing here, at least at this time.
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I have been noticing some big changes going on.
Maranatha is moving, ARISE is moving, Amazing Facts is now a Corporation. Then there is one more ministry I can't think of right now. I do believe I see everyone gathering around Doug Bachelor and Wiemar.
I am hearing about a nursing school. The college, Nursing school, evangelistic training, ...
The conglomerate is lined up and moving together. Is ASI moving?
Then yesterday I got to watch Doug Bachelor sit in a group with Jim Gilley, Danny Shelton, and one other person.
My question: Is Danny going to be in this conglomerate?
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Now that would be disastrous and totally blind of truth. I will be watching also. 3abn came on hope channel with ASI yesterday. I am concerned also about this. Mark Finley as vice president of ASI ?? or am I mistaken? How far are they going to go with this. If they all go along with DS, I am out of this circus and money pit. I hope this is not the case. What is wrong with all this??? For sure Jesus is coming soon when His church suffers this blow.
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Believe me 3abn and the rest are just the tip of the iceberg. I keep trying to tell people that the corruption is not only in 3abn camp but also in the rest of the lot. I can remember years ago attending a constituancy meeting and this doctor came up front and confronted the then outgoing president of the conference and told him he needed to stop trying to control the members and that he knew what he was doing and that he was out of line. I did not understand what the later part of his statement meant until years later when the truth came out about the nature of the man. Adventist by in large are a sad lot, they have been told that salvation only comes through the church instead of the truth that salvation only comes through Jesus Christ. The reason that many in the pew will not stand up to them is two fold. First, they see their own sins and because of that they become afraid that their dirt will come out in the long run. Secondly they believe the lie that they must stay on the ship and pay tithe or they are lost. They equate themselves and the seventhday adventist church as being the ship thus no matter how evil they become no one can say anything because the church is the apple of Gods eye the object in which his love is directed. But the true ship is Jesus and he is the captain and can put anyone on ship or off ship as He sees fit. Have you ever wondered where the miracles of healing were? Why does the church lack power, real power? Because they practice a form of godliness and deny the power thereof. Men often try to take the place of God by bestowing on themselves the perogatives that only belong to God. And the poor pew siter has such a lack of trust in God he leaves the church to unconverted men and women with hardly a whimper because he is afraid and does not trust in God.
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I have been noticing some big changes going on.
Maranatha is moving, ARISE is moving, Amazing Facts is now a Corporation. Then there is one more ministry I can't think of right now. I do believe I see everyone gathering around Doug Bachelor and Wiemar.
I am hearing about a nursing school. The college, Nursing school, evangelistic training, ...
The conglomerate is lined up and moving together. Is ASI moving?
Then yesterday I got to watch Doug Bachelor sit in a group with Jim Gilley, Danny Shelton, and one other person.
My question: Is Danny going to be in this conglomerate?
Television is thought of as a powerful tool. Those who control a TV outlet think they have unlimited power - and many, perhaps too many - agree with them.
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The church has become, at this time in history and so close to the Lords coming, so unrecognizable.......I really think that it is time to really examine WHAT CONSTITUTES A CHURCH????? then is becomes very clear................The church is not a building, a conference, a pastor, an organization.......and that is what it has become...............I love MY Historic believing, following the truth, church...and that certainly sets me apart from most people I know....I have family who think I ill be lost because I do not belong to a corporation owned church.........but you know....God's people are a PECULIAR PEOPLE....so I feel like I am part of God's peculiar family.......no wonder there will be such a small hand full in the end.................
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I have been noticing some big changes going on.
Maranatha is moving, ARISE is moving, Amazing Facts is now a Corporation. Then there is one more ministry I can't think of right now. I do believe I see everyone gathering around Doug Bachelor and Wiemar.
I am hearing about a nursing school. The college, Nursing school, evangelistic training, ...
The conglomerate is lined up and moving together. Is ASI moving?
Then yesterday I got to watch Doug Bachelor sit in a group with Jim Gilley, Danny Shelton, and one other person.
My question: Is Danny going to be in this conglomerate?
Television is thought of as a powerful tool. Those who control a TV outlet think they have unlimited power - and many, perhaps too many - agree with them.
I do not see you mentioning your Hope channel , owned and controlled by your hierarchy being mentioned here. Aren't all of those programs on the Hope channel?
The SDA organization is known for lawsuits and exerting control. A cultic tactic as you "SDAs" are so fond of pointing out to Catholics. The latest lawsuit being against a small Jewish group who have "adventist" in their name although nothing else in common except the jewish Sabbath, not even the pronunciation of the word Adventist or the meaning of it.
I seem to remember forum discussions about your Adventist organization trying to establish control over 3ABN's content, and broadcasts some years back. 3ABN remained independent as I recall although their programming is obviously supportive of your church traditions and older doctrines. More so I have observed than the official Hope channel who is progressing in the right direction. It is fairly obvious from that, that 3ABN does not tell your hierarchy what they can teach or broadcast.
If you all don't like 3ABN then just change the channel there are more important things to worry about in my opinion.
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Well, I agree with all both said. The only thing that Adventist have over then others is the true DOCTRINE. Now what they do with that is another ball game. Some take it beyond recognition and into fanaticism. Some become very liberal until you see no resemblance left. It is not hard to stay in the road if you are truly looking to do His will and be reasonable in all things as we are instructed.
The problem is taking our additional counsel of SOP in just some paragraphs and some sentences litterally and then revise the meaning for all time. an Example. One sentence says "you should not eat another egg" but if you read the whole chapter it states a letter to an obese family. Then in other places she states that an egg is essential to fight some deceases especially in children." Then it states we should not make ourselves weak until the demand states it. But man has taken the position now to "encourage the demand" instead of waiting on the Lord . We have even treated our cats and dogs on the farm with eggs." IF people do not read the whole book and just spots, they need to stay out of them as then they conclude their own opinion.
Not only have I found great termoil in following this saga and more as you state, we personally have felt great sting from the association of these same kind of people. No one has tried to help, no one wanted to come to forefront to stop the great injustice the people within the church has done to us personally and to family members. and yet we still attend only because WE BELIEVE TRUTH. It is so bad that I become sick at the moment of seeing certain faces. Not that I hate them or have revenge but what we went through is not forgotten as a lesson. It was destruction of our lives of hard work for the benefit of others.
But anyways. So the saga goes on and on and the hard working, honest people still give for the benefit of the "Extravaganza and lifestyle" of others claiming it is their own money and most of it does not reach the intentions of the pews.
It is amazing when EW even wrote about the very rejection of our last counsel. But then again less and less appreciate the last message before the coming. This basically is how I know the condition of the organized church just before and the timing appears right. It is the people only that is now God's church. Knowing all this, I no longer take pride in the appearance of the church trying to please the people, in music, preforming, dress and copying the world with their endeavors. So altimately we just try to keep on the road and realize we are not out of the sight of angels and God in our appearance and actions. Guess we should not be alarmed though as we were told it was going to go this way so here we are.
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Rex,
As I was posting your post came in and all I can say is whatever you think it may behove you to make sure you also are on the side of TRUTH OF DOCTRINE. There will be no excuse for not knowing it. We cannot be judged by monkey see and monkey do and make it to the gates but by our individual "will "of what is truth and how we stood up with it. And beyond all doubt it is not with the majority.....
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The latest lawsuit being against a small Jewish group who have "adventist" in their name although nothing else in common except the jewish Sabbath, not even the pronunciation of the word Adventist or the meaning of it.
Do you have a link?
I seem to remember forum discussions about your Adventist organization trying to establish control over 3ABN's content, and broadcasts some years back.
I've heard this said, but I don't know of any proof for it. Do you know of any? If it's based on what Danny et. al. has said, I can't consider that proof.
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http://www.atoday.com/content/jewish-group-sued-gc-over-adventist-name
http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-T/3ABN-take.pdf
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The first example of the GC trying to "take control" of 3ABN is said to be Folkenberg in 1992 trying to get Al McClure to be a 3ABN Board member.
Is the date of 1992 just a coincidence? Or does it suggest concern by the GC after Derrell and Melody Mundall told then IL Conf. president about various irregularities and improprieties, including about Tommy Shelton's problems?
Do you know of anything out there that would firmly demonstrate that there was an attempted takeover? Just asking that an NAD official be put on the board doesn't seem to cut it. And besides, 3ABN eventually did put Ralph Thompson on, but 3ABN hasn't claimed that it's been taken over by the denomination.
So is the attempted takeover story really accurate? And if it is, was there a valid reason for wanting to put 3ABN under some sort of oversight, such as financial and moral improprieties on the part of the Shelton gang?
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The first example of the GC trying to "take control" of 3ABN is said to be Folkenberg in 1992 trying to get Al McClure to be a 3ABN Board member.
Is the date of 1992 just a coincidence? Or does it suggest concern by the GC after Derrell and Melody Mundall told then IL Conf. president about various irregularities and improprieties, including about Tommy Shelton's problems?
Do you know of anything out there that would firmly demonstrate that there was an attempted takeover? Just asking that an NAD official be put on the board doesn't seem to cut it. And besides, 3ABN eventually did put Ralph Thompson on, but 3ABN hasn't claimed that it's been taken over by the denomination.
So is the attempted takeover story really accurate? And if it is, was there a valid reason for wanting to put 3ABN under some sort of oversight, such as financial and moral improprieties on the part of the Shelton gang?
I heard Danny Shelton talk about the attempted takeover on several occasions.
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Tinka, you are soooooo correct we should not be surprised at the condition of the church because we have the SOP and the bible telling us that it would be this way. Its just the human part of us, me, still finds it hard to believe. We recently had a picnic at our church to include the community and there was sooooo much meat there. The funny thing is that they said they were preparing it as to not offend the taste buds of the guest from the community, but the only people devouring the meat were Adventist (us). Then as I was walking pass the pastor called me to ask if I had tasted the ribs and how good they were. I understand that (we) each have individual temptations and things we have to overcome but do we have to blatantly disreguard SOP ???
What I am trying to express is that 3abn probably feels as worthy as any other to be the pillar of the Adventist Church. Since it is evident that by in large (though not all) do far worse than they and are excepted.
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Christian,
If you read far enough it also states that people who are followers can only go as far as their leader, talking of the preachers. So therefore they should know that they will be accountable to leading the people in the ways of the world. I learned very young to be your own individual self and not follow but let God lead your thinking and still we make mistakes by emotional situations. The times I am angry over all this is my thinking! Guess I still need the Lord to help me. It is a shame and that is why you have the protection of 3abn by the "money pit". This life has been sad because my thoughts were always of Jesus and what he taught. and yet we left the creeps that hide under the SDA cloak creep in and take what was given to us in the first place and using our trust in the SDA name sort of thing. It has been a test for sure. and why did we expect the individuals from the church to come to our aid when we gave aid I'll never know. Even now there is enough Intelligence in the SDA church that still could have helped us in the fraud situation that finalized the ending of taking all we owned by political agendas. We approached several and still no Samaritan for us that would even think of suggestion for help.
There was a SDA attorney that is now in California that only sent us to a worldly one and he took our money and it happened to be one for the opposite side. (laugh). What help! We even asked one great man of whom we all know of if he would have any suggestions on who we might contact for some advise but only got back an answer that we were possibly asking him and he could not help and. that was not so . We thought he just might know of someone who we could get advise or help from. Now we find he is a millionaire. (Laugh) with our assets,so were we at one time)
Eating pork would be like eating snake meat to me as I never have eaten it but to people that are trying to get away from eating it.......how much of an idiot preacher do these people put up with. I know the feeling of despair to watch the people follow off into the abyss setting in the pews listening to sermons to tickle their ears. Now I see Hope Channel following suit for outside people. Not setting example for what we long ago believed but now for the New age agenda and to please the world.
My struggle is to know all injustice done to people and feel their pain. I get angry. I want to fight back for the benefit of what is right but in my older age now, I see finality coming and still want people to turn around as My imagination of horror to the loss of eternity is very overwhelming at the discovery of tooo late to see. I am constantly worried over my own salvation and imperfections as the more I see Jesus the more sin I think I have. Sometimes you feel rejection at the trials. Sorta somewhat I suppose like Jesus felt at the feeling of separation of the Father at the Crucifixion. Our Savior endured the ultimate. But we are human and when it hurts love that was a gift of your life an total suffering it seems overwhelming. Could this be a reason why some people reject "Love" ?? Just a thought!
And for added thought, someone just sent me this article and hope i am not doing wrong by showing this but here it is just to let people see how really close things are. I remember reading a book called "Sunlight" and now this looks like reality happening.
August 10, 2009
Dear Friend of Liberty,
Unbelievably, Congress and the Obama administration are currently trying to resurrect the failed REAL ID Act, more accurately named “Dangerous ID.”
Dangerous ID, which passed in 2005, establishes a de facto National Identification System, and opens the doors for Federal biometric tracking of every American citizen.
Fortunately, no state currently complies with the burdensome mandates of the 2005 bill, and twenty-three have passed legislation refusing compliance.
So what does the Obama Administration want to do?
You guessed it: “Fix it,” and ram it down states’ throats.
Well, I say “Repeal it.” What do you say?
You see, as Obama Administration Surveillance Czar Janet Napolitano pushes for a revamp of the system to get the invasive federal program up and running, there has never been a better time to for us to push back, and fight for an outright repeal of the original legislation.
And although Dangerous ID is a clear attempt to establish a National ID System, the reality might be much worse -- an INTERNATIONAL Identification System. That’s why it is so critical we get that law off the books.
You see, Dangerous ID actually requires that driver’s license photographs meet United Nation’s biometric format standards. At this level of sophistication, government software can analyze facial characteristics and generate a unique identification number.
Think about that for a moment -- your identity will be reduced to a single number in an international database that can be tracked globally by one-world government surveillance cameras and facial recognition software.
Last month, Senator Daniel Akaka introduced The PASS ID Act to tweak the 2005 Dangerous ID legislation and ram this program into action over state opposition.
Supporters claim this REAL ID Redux bill softens requirements on states, supposedly making the breach of federalism a little more palatable. But it is merely a transparent attempt to get the Dangerous ID system implemented in any form, only to be augmented later to meet government’s needs.
In fact, there is evidence that this reincarnated Dangerous ID bill could wind up being worse than the original.
Chief among the bill’s supporters is Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano, who stands to wield expansive and virtually unchecked power to set standards.
Under Dangerous ID, Napolitano can unilaterally expand required information on driver's licenses, potentially to include biometric information such as retinal scans, fingerprints, DNA information, and even Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) radio tracking technology.
If international databases, RFID and biometric identification cards, and constant government surveillance are as alarming to you as they are to me, I hope you’ll click here to sign Campaign for Liberty’s petition to stop REAL ID Redux and repeal Dangerous ID.
This is an important battle, and one we CAN win.
Just look at all the success stories in states that opted out of the Dangerous ID system. In many cases, local C4L groups were instrumental in passing that legislation.
If REAL ID Redux passes, the new federal “concessions” may sucker many states into compliance.
That’s why it is so important that we defeat this reincarnation of Dangerous ID at the federal level, and take advantage of this national conversation to repeal the original bill.
So please, click here to sign the petition urging your Senators and Representative to stop this so-called “PASS ID” and finally repeal the original Dangerous ID legislation.
And please, make a generous contribution to help Campaign for Liberty spread the word about this important fight.
In Liberty,
John F. Tate
President
P.S. REAL ID (a.k.a. “Dangerous ID”) is back on the move with a revamped version called PASS ID.
To stop this move toward a National and International database and biometric ID Card, click here to sign the petition urging Congress to stop REAL ID Redux and finally repeal Dangerous ID.
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The first example of the GC trying to "take control" of 3ABN is said to be Folkenberg in 1992 trying to get Al McClure to be a 3ABN Board member.
Is the date of 1992 just a coincidence? Or does it suggest concern by the GC after Derrell and Melody Mundall told then IL Conf. president about various irregularities and improprieties, including about Tommy Shelton's problems?
Do you know of anything out there that would firmly demonstrate that there was an attempted takeover? Just asking that an NAD official be put on the board doesn't seem to cut it. And besides, 3ABN eventually did put Ralph Thompson on, but 3ABN hasn't claimed that it's been taken over by the denomination.
So is the attempted takeover story really accurate? And if it is, was there a valid reason for wanting to put 3ABN under some sort of oversight, such as financial and moral improprieties on the part of the Shelton gang?
I heard Danny Shelton talk about the attempted takeover on several occasions.
No doubt. You may not talk to them, but I heard it from several others that they had originally heard about it from Danny Shelton's ex-wife, Linda, and ex-son in law, Darrall Mundall, as well as several others also. It was documented on more than a few Adventist forums as well as in Adventist media when it was all going on. From this I gather that despite the question posed to me, and the surmising, it seems to be a well established and uncontroversial fact that the Adventist hierarchy tried to take control of 3ABN's programming and content as that kind of thing is what they are known for.
pax
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Rex,
As I was posting your post came in and all I can say is whatever you think it may behove you to make sure you also are on the side of TRUTH OF DOCTRINE. There will be no excuse for not knowing it. We cannot be judged by monkey see and monkey do and make it to the gates but by our individual "will "of what is truth and how we stood up with it. And beyond all doubt it is not with the majority.....
I don't believe that we have met before, or that I asked you to preach at or attempt to proselytize me. You don't know enough about me to warn, scold, or judge me, true?
pax
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http://www.atoday.com/content/jewish-group-sued-gc-over-adventist-name
http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-T/3ABN-take.pdf
Thank you for posting both these links. All should find it more credible when reading it from both the Adventist left and the Adventist right rather than the one-sided or biased reporting which commonly prevails in Adventist dialogs.
pax
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The first example of the GC trying to "take control" of 3ABN is said to be Folkenberg in 1992 trying to get Al McClure to be a 3ABN Board member.
Is the date of 1992 just a coincidence? Or does it suggest concern by the GC after Derrell and Melody Mundall told then IL Conf. president about various irregularities and improprieties, including about Tommy Shelton's problems?
Do you know of anything out there that would firmly demonstrate that there was an attempted takeover? Just asking that an NAD official be put on the board doesn't seem to cut it. And besides, 3ABN eventually did put Ralph Thompson on, but 3ABN hasn't claimed that it's been taken over by the denomination.
So is the attempted takeover story really accurate? And if it is, was there a valid reason for wanting to put 3ABN under some sort of oversight, such as financial and moral improprieties on the part of the Shelton gang?
I heard Danny Shelton talk about the attempted takeover on several occasions.
No doubt. You may not talk to them, but I heard it from several others that they had originally heard about it from Danny Shelton's ex-wife, Linda, and ex-son in law, Darrall Mundall, as well as several others also. It was documented on more than a few Adventist forums as well as in Adventist media when it was all going on. From this I gather that despite the question posed to me, and the surmising, it seems to be a well established and uncontroversial fact that the Adventist hierarchy tried to take control of 3ABN's programming and content as that kind of thing is what they are known for.
I still think we need something more solid than undocumented assertions. If there was an attempted takeover, then someone ought to be able to document it. Simply wanting to put the NAD president on the 3ABN Board doesn't cut it.
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The first example of the GC trying to "take control" of 3ABN is said to be Folkenberg in 1992 trying to get Al McClure to be a 3ABN Board member.
Is the date of 1992 just a coincidence? Or does it suggest concern by the GC after Derrell and Melody Mundall told then IL Conf. president about various irregularities and improprieties, including about Tommy Shelton's problems?
Do you know of anything out there that would firmly demonstrate that there was an attempted takeover? Just asking that an NAD official be put on the board doesn't seem to cut it. And besides, 3ABN eventually did put Ralph Thompson on, but 3ABN hasn't claimed that it's been taken over by the denomination.
So is the attempted takeover story really accurate? And if it is, was there a valid reason for wanting to put 3ABN under some sort of oversight, such as financial and moral improprieties on the part of the Shelton gang?
I heard Danny Shelton talk about the attempted takeover on several occasions.
No doubt. You may not talk to them, but I heard it from several others that they had originally heard about it from Danny Shelton's ex-wife, Linda, and ex-son in law, Darrall Mundall, as well as several others also. It was documented on more than a few Adventist forums as well as in Adventist media when it was all going on. From this I gather that despite the question posed to me, and the surmising, it seems to be a well established and uncontroversial fact that the Adventist hierarchy tried to take control of 3ABN's programming and content as that kind of thing is what they are known for.
I still think we need something more solid than undocumented assertions. If there was an attempted takeover, then someone ought to be able to document it. Simply wanting to put the NAD president on the 3ABN Board doesn't cut it.
Excuse me for saying so, but you appear to either be in denial, or to be remarkably ignorant and uninformed for an Adventist Apologist.
I don't have time to go look up all the discussion and documents from 12 years ago, nor any interest in rehashing it all, but here is a quick history and review of the pertinent documentation from one of your traditionalists:
http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-T/3ABN-take.pdf
pax
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I've found in the past that sometimes the most widely held understandings are wrong. For example, contrary to what most have believed, there is no evidence that William Miller accepted the date of October 22, 1844, and the Adventist pioneers did not universally believe that the atonement commenced upon Christ's ascension.
And thus my question as to evidence that there really was an attempted takeover, and that this isn't mere spin concocted by Danny Shelton.
The link you gave says that in 1992, Folkenberg wanted the NAD president to be on the 3ABN Board. That in and of itself isn't an attempted takeover. Given the allegations against Danny and Tommy raised in 1991, Folkenberg's request sounds totally reasonable.
But the link you gave doesn't contain the actual documents we need to read. Where are the proposed agreements of 1997? Once we read them, we can then see what was so sinister about them, if there was anything sinister.
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fact that the Adventist hierarchy tried to take control and content as that kind of thing is what they are known for.
pax
Now that is what happened exactly to us in a different situation and different setting. It is too bad though that maybe we could have given the benefit of doubt that reason could have been what they knew or saw that was not so kosher, but the hierarchy in our situation did just what you implied. No one can ever dispute actual documents but the lies they told to get away with what they done to answer to questions was unbelievable. Some paid dearly in the end. Yes they did quite a lot of injustice under the name of SDA but they were devils and still smirk around like they did nothing wrong. at least a couple that still try to present themselves as SDA's.
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Then yesterday I got to watch Doug Bachelor sit in a group with Jim Gilley, Danny Shelton, and one other person.
My question: Is Danny going to be in this conglomerate?
. A cultic tactic as you "SDAs" are so fond of pointing out to Catholics. The latest lawsuit being against a small Jewish group who have "adventist" in their name although nothing else in common except the jewish Sabbath, not even the pronunciation of the word Adventist or the meaning of it.
Rex, You really got mouthie calling us cultic tactics against 'catholics. and by rights the little group has no business with our "keepsake" name or what ever you think. Did you not come across like this or am I misunderstanding your take downs. I bear also many disappointments of SDA 's but we are not a cult or against catholics as people just their doctrines....... that is what we were first talking about... I thought, I am proud that we do have true Doctrine even when all do not practice it and will stand up for that no matter what the people do. That is what I was referring to by all means and make no bones about it.
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We should also remember the story about how Will Kellogg, founder of Kellogg's, was chatting with his brother, John Harvey Kellogg, and John Harvey went to rambling. Will felt that John Harvey was losing it, and he contacted A. G. Daniells and offered to pay the expenses of every Adventist who wanted to come to the next Battle Creek Sanitarium constituency meeting.
Why did Will make that offer? To facilitate some sort of mean, nasty, hostile takeover? No. He was trying to save the San.
It almost worked, but John Harvey went to court and ended up retaining control.
John Harvey didn't want preachers who ate meat to be controlling the sanitarium. But what happened it the end? Because of the San's debts and the depression, John Harvey lost control anyway, to those not of our faith, and the San started serving meat.
So maybe things would have turned out better if he had allowed the constituency to have their way at that constituency meeting. Maybe if he had followed the Spirit of Prophecy counsel and not gone into debt like he did. Maybe ....
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I don't mean to appear off topic but I think that what I am about to say holds relevance to the topic. In order to understand how 3abn is still operating we must understand the institution that it proports to be a part of. From our hospitals to our institutions of higher learning we have trampled upon our doctrinal beliefs. Again, 3ABN is no worse than them and in fact in many areas are a better representation of the church than the fore mentioned. We, being the Seventhday Adventist Church, doesn't believe in the SOP or most of our doctrines with the exception of the tithe issue, on that one we agree, you cant go to heaven without paying tithe. And just think for a minute, we trademarked our name and then took our brethren to court to sue and perhaps even imprison them for the "unauthorized usage of the church name."
Honestly, we are attacking Danny and 3Abn for their sins, when right before our eyes the institution in which we find ourselves a part of is just, if not more guilty. I understand that we have to start somewhere and I am by no means trying to protect 3ABN but the Adventist church no longer holds to it own beliefs even though they are part of the pillars of our church. Our pastor preach a sermon and then prayed that we would all learn the "holy dance" :dunno: And if our church were just an isolated example I could understand that but it is indicative of all the churches in the area, this is not an isolated incidence. I understand that two wrongs don't make a right but neither does correcting one wrong and leaving the other wrong make it right. As long as we are playing the hypocrite game we will have multiple people that see not real need to change their sinful ways.
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Some of these stories below and links to other stories seem so convincing.
When I started working for 3ABN Danny Shelton's stories of how 3ABN had been treated by Church leaders seemed quite convincing. Later, when I was negotiating with leaders of the Church to get their acceptance of 3ABN in their territories, their personal experiences of how dictatorial they had been treated by Danny Shelton sounded even more convincing.
Sreonger evidence than what Rex or Christian have presented is needed for a resolution. But really, I believe only the Power of the Holy Spirit can resolve these conflicts. The Holy Spirit will never find entrance without confessions.
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I have been noticing some big changes going on.
Maranatha is moving, ARISE is moving, Amazing Facts is now a Corporation. Then there is one more ministry I can't think of right now. I do believe I see everyone gathering around Doug Bachelor and Wiemar.
I am hearing about a nursing school. The college, Nursing school, evangelistic training, ...
The conglomerate is lined up and moving together. Is ASI moving?
Then yesterday I got to watch Doug Bachelor sit in a group with Jim Gilley, Danny Shelton, and one other person.
My question: Is Danny going to be in this conglomerate?
Rex;
I actually believe there is a new network on the horizon. I don't believe it will be 3ABN or Hope!
I do not see you mentioning your Hope channel , owned and controlled by your hierarchy being mentioned here. Aren't all of those programs on the Hope channel?
The SDA organization is known for lawsuits and exerting control. A cultic tactic as you "SDA's" are so fond of pointing out to Catholics. The latest lawsuit being against a small Jewish group who have "Adventist" in their name although nothing else in common except the Jewish Sabbath, not even the pronunciation of the word Adventist or the meaning of it.
I seem to remember forum discussions about your Adventist organization trying to establish control over 3ABN's content, and broadcasts some years back. 3ABN remained independent as I recall although their programming is obviously supportive of your church traditions and older doctrines. More so I have observed than the official Hope channel who is progressing in the right direction. It is fairly obvious from that, that 3ABN does not tell your hierarchy what they can teach or broadcast.
If you all don't like 3ABN then just change the channel there are more important things to worry about in my opinion.
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Sometimes, I think what we need to be discussing is why our church has changed so drastically from what it was intended to be in the beginning. I find it hard to be upset with 3ABN when I realize that they are not the real problem. Now my statement was in no way, shape or form intended to chastise those who want to see justice, I realize some have a personal interest in this situation, (child molestation etc...) But for the sincere Adventist that has no vested interest in 3ABN we need to take on the entire organization. Because our health institutions are far more guilty of perverting the message than 3ABN. Many of our churches are the vehicle used to kill many a Christians hope for salvation and our pastors are robbing the members. I remember one particular pastor pushing vitamins and getting rich off the member and all I could do was laugh as he road in his Hummer.
I have heard a number of pastor preach that though the church is defective they should shut up and give their tithe cause the ship full of sin defective as it might be is going through and if you get off the ship you are lost. I have tried to find the scripture that supports that but cannot locate it. The bible says the truth shall set you free and again "I am the way the truth and the light" so where has this diabolical theology come from? Certainly it did not come from Ellen White because she states we will have (each person) to stand alone and give a reason for the hope we have inside us. The pastors have become the seventhday Adventist God and the members are afraid to stand on the word of God.
I remember the interview that was given one of the followers of David Koresh. And in that interview she stated that she wished she had died in the fire with him. I applaud those that want a reckoning for the sin in 3ABNs camp but don't forget your responsibility to your local church, which may be more corrupt than 3abn, just without the money
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(laugh) your right there!! This is why mostly I am against just lay people getting the pulpit spot on a dime. They do not have the experience or training that the schooling gives in education to deal with the public. I have seen though just a few that the people themselves put into the spot because their agenda was nothing but truth and hard worked for the right motives and extremely intelligent on the use of the Bible. The pureness you can detect and the majority of people wanted and pushed them in. But most are like you say. Their agenda is leadership first. Also some choose because they do not like physical labor or just can't make it in work or organization. A true Bible worker is great in both work and organization as they have the ability for all to fit into place. They have been blessed to be that kind of person and they have sense to discern other people and their problems and then react in right manner.
The pyramid games and jobs seem to attract a lot of Adventist. I wonder why? Don't they know that the right way is not ...one man works and the top reaps. I have always been disgusted with this. The little guy does all the foot work (gas, fuel) and feeds the top guy. The top guy does all the convincing of lies to sell the maybe good,but too high priced product for common use and get many little guys to get the product out at his expense. This forces the Brawn to go against their work for a penny and get a penny way of life. What a racket to poor people that have to try anything to gain a buck they think. It is called mind over brawn and most see nothing wrong with this either. The mind is calculating how to take from the brawn instead of how to give. Same pattern with some of the pulpit spots. and that is in all religions and not just Adventists. That's how they can buy hummers!!! or get into :rabbit: trails and feed :horse: s and extravaganza living that have nothing to do with the ministry. But their lifestyle is first priority, in material things, sex, and ego. and their followers have the same character or the light would click on or their eyes would tell them the truth.
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I can imagine if I was a conference worker I would be laughing right now at the individuals who are so upset with 3ABN and Danny. Obviously it is not in the realm of Danny's power to stay in power without the Adventist Church approval. With the copy right law in effect they could easily fight him and separate themselves from him but they have chose not to do that. It reminds me of the United States attacking Iraq because it could when China is as guilty as them of human rights violations and the like. Thus, the Adventist is left with the same dilemma, that being if they attack the real source of Danny's problem they will be considered lost and so they assail 3ABN because they can and still be assured of a place in the church and heaven. I could run down a list of church pastors who are guilty of adultery, divorce and remarriage and perversion of the Gospel and Gossiping and stealing money from the members and on and on. Yet these individuals are still left unassailed to minister to church members and receive the tithe of the Lord. If I can see all that is going on, then I have to assume that the church sees also and approves. Am I correct or do I see a number of Adventist pastors making their way to 3ABN and these be some of the renown pastors in our denomination. How can the church say anything about Danny and 3ABN when they are as guilty as he. And how can we fight 3ABN without also fighting the church who upholds him?
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Well, Christian,
It seems with the Organized church in this state is why I mentioned that it appears "It's almost over". The brightest lights flickering almost out as they preach a good sermon but do not analyze the facts of events. It is ignored and gather if they just keep going nothing will be held accountable as the ship goes down. If I would have seen also a separation or stand up just a little against this just maybe it would have given a glimmer of hope to the rescue yet giving a secure feeling as we Adventist held in the past but this tragic episode is "rolling" to devour and Satan knew what to do. I cannot imagine at this point to be in any of the leadership shoes.
I remember one time long ago, two couples intermingled right in the church. Everyone said nothing but sort of took sides with one another to find what reasoning everything was justified. I will never forget it has a minister of that time stopped before sermon and he directly said, you, you, you and you remove yourselves from this congregation for------- and all sympathizers can follow. It was hacked by the Sword of the Lord immediately and out the door they went. It was a whirlwind that finally relieved the atmosphere and they never more were to return. They were never repentant or feel they were in the wrong and carried on but two died almost immediately. It was just horrifying that a pastor could do such a thing they claimed. It was Blessed! So the same it is here on a bigger scale (the scenario that is) but where is the Sword? The Lord will test many by Ones evil manifestations and ability to use their horrid talent to manipulate on this big of a scale ! I think most can agree that it's almost over unless the "awakening".
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I am almost afraid to try to bring new people into the church. I see people coming into the church, being baptized and then getting discouraged and dropping out. It is almost like they are vaccinated agianst the gospel by their time of coming into the church, being excited and then losing heart and leaving. I don't think it is so much seed falling on bad ground as much as it is some so called "christians" or even ministers living immoral and/or greedy lives and being shameless about it.
There are those who don't want to believe that workers are merely moved rather than disciplined but I had it from a minister's second wife that if he had been willing to move, he could continue in the ministry - in Illlinois. He didn't have biblical grounds for divorce. Illinois isn't any different than other states in this respect. It isn't a new development . Has been going on at least since the 1950s.
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What is so disturbing and infuriating about 3abn has been the fact that they reported themselves to be a tool for God with the motto "mending broken people." But anyone that has not been so brainwashed can understand that the way they treated Linda was ridiculous; I perfectly understand the anger that is directed against 3abn. However, as long as our church as a whole continues in the direction that it is going we will continue to see this type of situation continued on and on. What we have is a denomination that has the truth but is unable to perform it because of lack of power and direction. They take any miracle manufactured or true and label that as Gods approval of the church. But for the most part (I believe) God does not work miracles much more in the church because of our continued disbelief in our own doctrines. The most grievous sin of the church (I believe) is its desire to be excepted. The church has become self sustaining, meaning they have forgotten the goal is the preparation for the Lords return. Remember what the Jews said "it is better that one man should perish" than that they should lose there place. Here is the HOPE, Jesus is not dead and he will run the money exchangers out of the church. Unfortunately in the mean time let the buying and selling continue.---There is really no victory possible in the 3ABN saga because the fight is not being taken to those who are truly responsible (us) the church at large.
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Yes, your right and that is what I saw Gailon and Bob and a few others doing. At least trying to bring the corruption to the attention of the people.
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How can the church say anything about Danny and 3ABN when they are as guilty as he.
I do not believe I have ever heard of any situation as bizarre as that of Danny Shelton.
Sure, there are problems. Such isn't new. The church of the apostles had Ananias and Sapphira committing fraud, Peter stopping eating with the Gentiles, Diotrephes improperly disfellowshiping people, etc.
But name an Adventist church leader or pastor who gave a globally televised tribute to a pedophile right after new allegations were made public, and who on global TV trashed a young woman who claimed she was sexually assaulted by him.
Make a list of all the allegations, and then see if you can find any situation within the church that comes even close.
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You, are so right I don't think anyone has been done wrong to that magnitude, partially because no one else has the means. But that doesn't lessen the fact that many of the things done, while on a lesser scale still have happen in the church at large. Plus you would have to say that the church was implicit in what was done also. Again, unless the church stands behind Danny he doesn't get away with what has been done. But the church has practiced suing their brethren so how can they fault Danny. I can tell you that there are churches that have pedophiles and practicing homosexuals and the like serving in positions of authority. Now to the stage that one is allowed to serve to is dependent on the modems used, television etc... However that does not make the church any less guilty of the crimes committed in the name of God. Again, the church must be held responsible because they have in their power the ability to change the situation. But for the far less crime (in their site) of placing a billboard and offending another denomination they will subject their own to imprisonment. Moreover there crime is greater than Danny's in that they denied the Spirit of Prophecy before the entire world or at least in Florida. And they have trademarked the name Seventhday Adventist as to imprison you in the future in the name of God.
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But the church has practiced suing their brethren so how can they fault Danny.
Just wondering about the word "brethern"used by a couple of posters. Maybe I am wrong but isn't this a case where other denomenation wants to use our "Adventist" name?
I just thought the word "brethern" meant to be "equally yoked". I never really thought as other denomenations as "brethern". I consider unequally yoked as "neighbor". So just in terms of understanding. It would be ok to charge interest to "neighbor" but not to "brethern". Right??
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I can tell you that there are churches that have pedophiles and practicing homosexuals and the like serving in positions of authority.
One of the things I hope Adventists get away from doing is lumping everybody into categories of sin. For instance, "pedophiles and practicing homosexuals and the like."
I think if I listed "crooks and Jews" as examples of people who are not born-again Christians, I would be linking the two in a way that doesn't help the Jewish community very much.
Secondly, gays prefer the term "gay" to "homosexual," the same way African-Americans prefer Black to Negro.
Humorously, there's a web site maintained by a fundamentalist religious group that refuses to use the term "gay." Every time they print a news story that has the word gay in it, their employees are ordered to change the word gay to homosexual. Tyson Gay smashed the American record in the 100 meters by six hundredths of a second. On the fundamentalist web site it is Tyson Homosexual who did it. :oops:
If any of you are planning any ministry outreach to the gay community you might find this information helpful. Best of luck to you all.
The Little Grasshopper
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I can tell you that there are churches that have pedophiles and practicing homosexuals and the like serving in positions of authority.
One of the things I hope Adventists get away from doing is lumping everybody into categories of sin. For instance, "pedophiles and practicing homosexuals and the like."
I think if I listed "crooks and Jews" as examples of people who are not born-again Christians, I would be linking the two in a way that doesn't help the Jewish community very much.
Secondly, gays prefer the term "gay" to "homosexual," the same way African-Americans prefer Black to Negro.
Humorously, there's a web site maintained by a fundamentalist religious group that refuses to use the term "gay." Every time they print a news story that has the word gay in it, their employees are ordered to change the word gay to homosexual. Tyson Gay smashed the American record in the 100 meters by six hundredths of a second. On the fundamentalist web site it is Tyson Homosexual who did it. :oops:
If any of you are planning any ministry outreach to the gay community you might find this information helpful. Best of luck to you all.
The Little Grasshopper
I can see where many would not want to be branded as anything. However, there are those individuals with traits that harm others. They should be branded
According to the facts put forth, we could just say:
Danny Shelton, the pedophile
Danny Shelton, the thief
Danny Shelton, the adulterer
Danny Shelton, the liar
Danny Shelton, the blackmailer
Danny Shelton, the non-denominational christian
Danny Shelton, the one that feels the 10 commandments were not for him
Danny Shelton, the commandment breaker
Danny Shelton, the commandment breaker
Danny Shelton, the breaking of people
Danny Shelton, the man to fear
Danny Shelton, the womanizer ...
I could go on forever.
I believe Danny should be required to wear a shirt, with all of the characteristics set forth in documented facts, so the world will be warned, don't you think. That is my opinion.
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Hmmmm, I don't know about that Bob. There are some really bizarre things happening within local yokels. It's just that DS is the "large scale king".
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Again, the church must be held responsible because they have in their power the ability to change the situation.
In the case of Danny Shelton, the church as a whole does not have the ability to change the situation, since there is no direct control of 3ABN by the church.
However, John Lomacang could bring the issue of the necessity of discipling Danny Shelton before the Thompsonville church. Some of the members there may be afraid of losing their jobs, but John and those members do have a moral obligation to cleanse the camp of the vile sin that Danny Shelton refuses to let go of.
But for the far less crime (in their site) of placing a billboard and offending another denomination they will subject their own to imprisonment.
I don't recall anyone being imprisoned for placing a billboard.
Moreover there crime is greater than Danny's in that they denied the Spirit of Prophecy before the entire world or at least in Florida.
How was that done? How did the "church" do that?
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Without, giving away where I live, the church wrote a paper in response to allegations that they were bashing the Catholic church, (and they copied a section of the great controversy), by saying "we no longer hold to those principles." In the Florida interview the pastor, Cox stated when reference was given to Ellen G. White saying we would have to flee the cities "that would be an extreme view". On the Oreilly factor when interviewing an Adventist from Florida, the church in written form denied the writing of the great controversy dealing with the roll of the Catholic Church. One would have to be completely blind and unlearned to not be able to recognize that the church is running away from the writings of Ellen G. White.
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I read that Brandy Shelton filed for divorce from Danny around August 5. Any truth to this?
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Haven't seen the filing yet, but it is not a surprise. She did leave him.
Wonder what her settlement will be.
My guess is that this one will be a BIG one! I am guessing it will be much more than Linda got for 19 years.
I wonder what the grounds are going to be?
I wonder if he has already chosen Brandy's replacement?
Only time will tell if the divorce was biblical!
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One can't help but wonder if he commited spiritual adultery and drove her away...
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I don't look for Brandy to gain that much money from the pews awarded by the court for settlement as she was not married long enough to DS. Of course, unless the possibility of child support comes into view. She knew that Danny was married in the 17 years of chasing him, He claims?????? Think the donors will still help him out??? or is the money pit getting too tight and the shopping days are over. Did they give Linda anything or she was forced for shillings under complete duress. Time is the factor for all truth to be brought into circle. In DS old age of experience he should have observed this pattern. But guess he was too busy in cover ups. That does take full time attention I guess.
And as far as John 'cain. He did not stand up the first time for right so why would he now? His credibility is gone too. Like the pattern goes, many can be tested by just "one".
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With apologies to Stephen Sondheim and Judy Collins
Send in the Clones
Isn't it rich?
Are we a pair?
Me here at last on the ground,
you in mid-air.
Where are the clones?
Isn't it bliss?
Don't you approve?
One who keeps tearing around,
one who can't move.
Where are the clones?
There ought to be clones.
Just when I'd stopped
opening doors,
finally knowing
the one that I wanted was yours,
Making my entrance again,
with my usual flair,
Sure of my lines,
no one is there.
Don't you love farce?
My fault, I fear.
I thought that you'd want what I want -
sorry, my dear.
But where are the clones?
Send in the clones.
Don't bother, they're here.
Isn't it rich?
Isn't it queer?
Losing my timing this late
in my career.
But where are the clones?
There ought to be clones.
Well, maybe next year...
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:ROFL: :thumbsup: Was wondering the same thing. Mighty quiet.
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And to go along with this little ditty wasn't it on August 5 2006 that Danny was supposed to have made the remark to pastor Kevin Paulson about Brandy chasing him? And now it is being reported that Brandy filed for divorce on August 5 2009. Ironic isn't it.
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Very well siad, Johann. I believe it is the language which is offense. Surely there are people and institutions who are key in making Adventism what it is today, both good and bad. God uses people to further his message, we can't deny that. Some, EGW, to a greater degree than others, but all are part of "The Body", right?
No institution can be a pillar of a True Church. The pillar is Jesus Christ and His teachings which bring us to Him.
It is my feeling that calling a man or an institution a pillar of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is contrary to the teachings of Scripture and should not be advocated by a media supporting the doctrines of the Church. This could be as great a great danger as teaching evolution.
Jeremiah 17:5
Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
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"Satan is the accuser of the brethern". To paint all the good that 3ABN has done with a broad brush of rehashed gossip because of what mere mortal men MAY or MAY NOT have done wrong or failed to do right is to be a spawn of the devil according to the scriptures. As has been said many times by others on this forum, some of you folks need to re-examine your life and your priorities. Shall you push the gossip or the gospel? When Jesus appears someday, will He commend you for keeping the gossip alive and going?? Or would He rather find you doing something to help hasten His return, to be "found in the line of duty" as EGW so aptly put it? Come on folks, time for some of you to get a life- a life in Jesus! Or to put it another way- there is LIFE beyond gossip mongering! Come and experience it!!
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You mean overlook the hash and keep paying the cash to :rabbit: ????? All in the name of Justification for sin????
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dburt,
I hear Danny has been doing some begathons lately. If he would repay to 3ABN the money he siphoned off via kickbacks, royalties, real estate transactions, and payment for his personal, private legal expenses, he wouldn't have to beg as much for more money. 3ABN would be better off, and the gospel could go forth in greater power.
Also, remember that Achan hindered God's blessing so that the children of Israel lost the battle at Ai. Achan and Danny Shelton do have some things in common, so the same hinderance of God's blessing would be expected. That is not good.
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Today I watched a Sunday church service. I saw a beggar so so good, I was almost fooled and thought maybe I send this ugly man some money! Danny needs lessons on begging. The subject was God can't give to you unless you plant seed to the ministry! If you need so much money, give that amount as a donation and God will provide what you need plus more! You can not out give God he said! He start at $1,000 donations and in 15 minutes he was asking for multiple $1,000,000 donations!
Then he started his bragging about his personal giving and getting. He had some kind of a relationship with a Bishop. He asked the Bishop, previously, if he had ever received $ !,000,000 at one time. The Bishop told him no, never. He said he prayed and asked God to provide the Bishop this amount of money, and 2-3 months later the Bishop received a $ 1,000,000.00 check from one of the Cowboy Football players!
Then he said to take hold of your wallet. Man, he had me listening to every word. He was ugly and fat, but he had that I don't have a degree crap and pulled everyone right in! I was a witness to hundreds of people with checkbooks and credit cards ready for the challenge!
Since the world knows about Danny, why does the board not remove him? The upcoming homecoming special preacher is going to be Robert Folkenberg! Everyone else is part of the 3ABN and includes Danny and the rest of the Sheltons. I guess we need to have review starting the beginning of this mess.
I want to add that I have NOT received the required response from the IRS as yet.