Advent Talk

Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Bob Pickle on August 02, 2009, 05:06:28 PM

Title: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Bob Pickle on August 02, 2009, 05:06:28 PM
I've been wondering how people can become so deceived as to blindly support corrupt religious leaders such as Danny Shelton.

Here is "Esther," a 25-year-old follower of Wayne Bent. http://www.religionnewsblog.com/23231/starving-for-wayne-bent (http://www.religionnewsblog.com/23231/starving-for-wayne-bent). After Wayne was convicted in December 2008, she stopped eating.

Another video of "Esther" is at http://beyond90seconds.com/2009/02/02/strong-city-posts-its-video-of-esther-interview-with-kob-tv/ (http://beyond90seconds.com/2009/02/02/strong-city-posts-its-video-of-esther-interview-with-kob-tv/).

So what was Wayne convicted of? National Geographic has their whole program on Wayne Bent at http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/videos/feeds/cv-seo/Full-Episodes/Inside/Inside-a-Cult-1.html (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/videos/feeds/cv-seo/Full-Episodes/Inside/Inside-a-Cult-1.html).

The original BBC movie of which the above is based upon is at http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6509120662881681478 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6509120662881681478).

It blows my mind that Wayne's son Jeff can so blindly follow Wayne, given the above footage. The human race must be a gullible lot.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Murcielago on August 02, 2009, 05:37:08 PM
Quote
The human race must be a gullible lot.
A sad amen to that.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Bob Pickle on August 03, 2009, 09:37:33 AM
The third video at http://beyond90seconds.com/2009/01/29/video-starving-womans-removal-from-cult-compound/ (http://beyond90seconds.com/2009/01/29/video-starving-womans-removal-from-cult-compound/) is where I think "Esther" tells the reporter she "lost all respect" for him.

Are there any parallels between the blind devotion some have given Danny Shelton and the blind devotion Jeff Bent, "Esther," and others have given Wayne Bent?
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: tinka on August 04, 2009, 05:55:56 AM
Bob,

Have been very busy in garden and thought I would get back to see what was happening.

I had no idea there was another SDA into this extreme fanaticism of having followers again.  All I can say is I am shocked again as "Waco" was bad enough. I watched the videos with great sickness of feeling for the followers and also mostly disgust to watch the ignorance of willingness to be brainwashed. When you have known truth, then walk away with eyes upon your own self and indulgences you will be led by Satan himself into the blindness of eternity, never to have the Holy Spirit to pass your way again. You will believe the lie and God will laugh at the Calamity that ones own selfishness possesses and refuses to relinquish.

We must all understand without doubt that people of ignorance and lacking education are sustained by ego and that does not mix with religion. They just cannot handle it. I have watched many of these people think they find a place of authority that appeals to them when they cannot and do not have the ability of common sense and all knowledge of understanding  Biblical Truth. This is why I do not like just lay people to enter leadership without complete education first before they dive into leadership or (pasturing.) THEY JUST CANNOT HANDLE IT and many are unstable and had unstable upbringing. Schools of education can syphon these individual out before degrees are given.  Yet churches think they must put all new members right to work and some think they can start preaching while the pews sit trying to understand how they got into the pulpit. We have counsel on this and now we see the affects of what can happen. Instead of Scripture they give opinions and stories is how you can tell.

This is really a scary situation for Adventist and they bring it on their selves by not following counsel. again I am just sick watching those videos.

Now, every evidence is there as I see it in wrong course taken by 3abn as they are seen with the Extravaganza and misconduct on a much wider scale of self indulgence and ego following the same pattern. And as I have discovered like in the videos IT SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE FOLLOWERS TO TURN AROUND AS THEY HAD THE LIGHT IN THE BEGINNING BUT FELL TO THEIR OWN CLOSED IGNORANT MINDS OF WHAT WAS PLAIN TO SEE!  at least to outsiders. They refuse to see or except fact, and will not reason together just what did happen. THEY JUST CAN'T DO IT. They feed on the money pit that has been provided by deceivement of innocent people that Satan Himself gloats over.  Its the same following, the same pattern and the same distruction of lives.

I guess in a sense it was good these patterns were shown and info given so that maybe some ignorant minds can connect the actual facts of wrong roads taken.

How unstable can one get when you leave truth to your own interpretations. This is what I call a mark placed upon the SDA religion by outsiders (National Geographic) when these things are allowed to happen and just anyone is allowed to enter into sacred place of the pulpit. I am for the credentials of work and education. and then watch for the first sign of fanaticism (watch eating habits is the easiest one to watch) and see if the people start to follow the preacher. Reasonable in all things is the answer.  When you see pale, emancipated, weak and shaky that is a clue. If they do get him out. (Laugh) conferences do not do their job as long as the money is flowing.

3abn has upset me tremendously to also help mark the SDA of trouble, extravaganza, and pattern of no return with no acknowledgement or capable knowing wrong doing. But I am only nothing but a dot at the end of all this but am glad to be free for the time being to express what is seen.

On the biggest scale ever of followers and the adornment of one man, Look what it did to America!!!!!! and all the people followed...except a few! a few that was watching for the truth of a man's character, lifestyle, and agenda by previous history.  You got it----- America    You just did not want to look at History or the facts!   Same with 3 abn    :usa:     :horse:      :horse:      :horse:     :horse:

Keep feeding them!!!
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Bob Pickle on August 04, 2009, 06:04:50 AM
Thank the Lord that Wayne Bent is not an Adventist. Notice his clear departures from Adventist beliefs, including the idea of the spirit of Michael coming into him, the 70 week prophecy, the literalness of the second coming, etc.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: tinka on August 04, 2009, 09:10:55 AM
I realize, but they made clear what Bent was out of and that is what hurts. And my issue is that these so called (guru s)?, getting old and my spelling wants to revert back to phonics.) do their own interpretation for their own lusts and desires and of course it must be the followers have the same desires.  OF course these are the reasons they break away in the first place. Their own agenda and junk.  Sickos that have let Satanic forces that trick them and feed them to think God is talking to them. Now that is what is called stuck to your self. The other misconception I discovered that they were trying to do  from video was "they were living perfect without sin on their own" (laugh) did they forget there is only ONE perfect! lying naked with the guru was real perfect uhh.  He is now where he belongs. where some others should be also.   That is what is seen in nakedness of the use of 3abn pew money. How, just how can they do it and live with it?  His own money uuhh, I believe I heard someone on this post say that. Holy money touched by dirty hands and dirty agenda. That is what you can see with the naked eye.

Then of course it is like those pulling their own chain, spending their (own?) donation money, and doing their own thing, money, sex, lies, propaganda and extravaganza spending all in the name of the same thing Bent does!!

I can just hear EGW if she was alive today. She already called a man nothing but a bent (crooked)stick. It made me laugh. Bent sure has the right name for his character. A Bent stick....that is what he is. And how important is a name??? I believe I would have changed mine.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: childoftheking on August 05, 2009, 05:00:29 AM
The difference between a Wayne Bent situation and the 3ABN one is that 3ABN is looked upon by so many more people both inside and outside of  the church as being of divine origin. It is or was considered by almost the whole church to have been inspired and started by God and to be directly blessed by many miracles that to say that all is not as it has been represented to be is almost deemed by them to be blasphemy . No. I will take that back, this is considered to be blasphemy. And to be questioning 3ABN or Danny is thought to be sinning against the Holy Spirit.

Cult leaders such as Bent and Koresh may have relatively small followings. 3ABN has had a huge following. It has had acceptance and support from some of the highest political and financial powers within the church and still continues to have the support of many.

The reason that Waco was so important was that It affected public opinion about Seventh-day Adventists. This bad PR was somewhat mitigated by the church distancing itself from Koresh though SDAs were not totally cleared from a connection with the cult in the minds of many. The church did not have the potential PR and legal liability there that it has at 3ABN either because there was not intermingling of an independent entity with the denomination.

We are told that Satan will appear as an angel of light and perform miracles. Some of the miracle stories at 3ABN may be true or some may be exaggerated. That is not the point. Are we told to judge whether an organization is led by God by the miracles it claims? I was a great supporter of 3ABN and wondered why they were so active in winning souls when the church seemed so inactive. I am not promoting inactivity. Many have been brought into the church through 3ABN. The harm that bad PR can do is in direct proportion to the good it has done and the acclaim and media promotion that it has had.

King David did many good things. God chose him. God did not excuse his sin. Were there other sinners in the camp of Israel? God sent Nathan to David not to them because he was the king and the king influenced the whole nation. God chose Saul. Saul sinned. God did not excuse his sin. Saul tried to defend himself but God called him to account. David repented. God forgave even though the some of the result of David’s sin remained. And because David repented some of the potential damage done by his sin may have been averted. We do not know what exactly would have happened had he not repented. We do not yet know what potential damage may happen to the reputation of the church, to the reputation of God Himself and to opinion of what He condones.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Fran on August 05, 2009, 03:18:22 PM
I agree wholeheartedly, childoftheking! 

I fear for what the Lord will do!  No matter what it is, there will be those who will not listen to the truth.  It will be a crushing blow to Seventh-day Adventists in general.

I saw Danny on an older 3ABN on the Road I think.  It was before Melody married Greg Firestone, because a Firestone requested for her to sing the song she sang.  It was a song she and her song writer & one time lover wrote together. 

Then I got what they were doing! They must have searched to find a program where Brandy was there!  Danny mentioned Brandy sitting in the back!

Could it be that they want us to believe all is well on the split home front?    They need to come clean.  Too many people know.  A moving van is hard to hide!  Too many people saw it.  I hear Florida is very nice at this time of the year.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Fran on August 05, 2009, 03:40:36 PM
Oh yes, I haven't seen Danny lately!  Anyone know why?
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Gailon Arthur Joy on August 05, 2009, 04:04:29 PM
Oh yes, I haven't seen Danny lately!  Anyone know why?

Announcement is pending...but it would be wise to let circumstances fully develop!!!

Let me simply say that someone may be facing a two front war!!! Or will it be three fronts??? Wonder who will pay the legal fees this time???

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Bob Pickle on August 07, 2009, 04:21:00 PM
Oh yes, I haven't seen Danny lately!  Anyone know why?

Danny was on the air last night, attacking La Sierra.

I have no problem with being upset about teaching evolution, but for Danny to be on the air griping about it doesn't make any sense. If he wasn't so vehemently opposed to basic Adventist standards, it would be a different matter.

That's my gripe. It appears to me that Danny has thrown basic Christian morality and standards and principles to the wind, and has adopted a Pharisaical counterfeit of the gospel. Until he returns to biblical Christianity and rejects the counterfeit, he really ought not to be criticizing others. And Jim Gilley shouldn't be allowing Danny to be on the air.

Perhaps what Danny is trying to do is distract everyone from asking, "Where's Brandy?" Perhaps he is looking for a hot button issue so people will still send him money so he can pay his lawyers.

Anyone have a count of how many lawyers Danny at. al. have used since 2002? They've had 9 in our lawsuit. I know of at least 2 or 3 in his case with Linda. Then there is the property tax case. There's been at least 4 in that one. But what the total is, I don't know.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Rex on August 11, 2009, 12:24:48 PM
The third video at http://beyond90seconds.com/2009/01/29/video-starving-womans-removal-from-cult-compound/ (http://beyond90seconds.com/2009/01/29/video-starving-womans-removal-from-cult-compound/) is where I think "Esther" tells the reporter she "lost all respect" for him.

Are there any parallels between the blind devotion some have given Danny Shelton and the blind devotion Jeff Bent, "Esther," and others have given Wayne Bent?

Danny Shelton and his religious programming teaches error. I also think it should be removed from the air, but, you can't be serious here?

ROFL!



Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Bob Pickle on August 11, 2009, 01:01:49 PM
Actually, I was serious.

In particular, I would think Walt Thompson's blind (or not so blind) allegiance to Danny Shelton is akin to Jeff Bent's blind (or not so blind) devotion to Wayne Bent.

Walt's devotion to Danny has baffled me since the beginning. He repeatedly denies the various allegations, including Danny's cover up of the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton, and that to me sounds like Jeff Bent.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: princessdi on August 18, 2009, 04:52:19 PM
Just Curious,  What are the Adventist standards to which Danny is so opposed?  He may have fallen off the wagon as far as marraige went, but I see 3ABN(what little of I have seen) to be pretty fundamental in their adherence to SDA doctrine.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: tinka on August 18, 2009, 05:44:01 PM
Hmmm, the rich man was good in all things too,....except for one!
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Bob Pickle on August 19, 2009, 06:06:00 AM
Just Curious,  What are the Adventist standards to which Danny is so opposed?  He may have fallen off the wagon as far as marraige went, but I see 3ABN(what little of I have seen) to be pretty fundamental in their adherence to SDA doctrine.

Danny is a liar. He could care less about morality. He looks for ways to use 3ABN funds to enrich himself, or pay for things he wants. He is a little bully who will not hesitate to threaten a non-Adventist pastor with a lawsuit, when that pastor is simply trying to protect children from being molested.

As far as doctrine goes, John Lomacang taught on August 10, 2006, that no human being on earth could correct Danny Shelton, or else they would get in trouble with God. That was rank heresy.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: tinka on August 19, 2009, 06:25:42 AM
Birds of a feather flock together..DS and John 'cain.
I' m glad someone can watch what is going on and keep their stomach in tact.
I could not stand to watch it but at least we know what is being said and know this must be truth of facts.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Emma on August 21, 2009, 08:25:17 PM
A bit off topic but I just read this on the 3ABN website in the section The History of 3ABN..

Quote

President Danny Shelton hosts its flagship program, "3ABN Today."


Is that still true, that Danny is president?  If not perhaps the site should be updated.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Rex on August 22, 2009, 09:16:05 AM
A bit off topic but I just read this on the 3ABN website in the section The History of 3ABN..

Quote

President Danny Shelton hosts its flagship program, "3ABN Today."


Is that still true, that Danny is president?  If not perhaps the site should be updated.

Needs to be updated is my guess.

A quick look at the site revealed a Jim Gilley is president and the bit below.

Quote
Employment Opportunities

Website Developer


   3ABN is seeking a full-time website developer...
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Snoopy on August 22, 2009, 11:09:01 PM

Hhmm - whatever happened to Steve Nelson anyway?  Did Sammy get him in trouble?
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: dburt on September 12, 2009, 05:27:12 PM
I gotta ask it one more time- Fran, Pickle, and the rest of you folks who spend your time rooting around in the garbage dump of old gossip going to get a life?? When are you going to re-direct your focus into something worthwhile instead of going over the old 3ABN stuff?? *********, do you not have anything better to do?? There is a world out there dying for lack of the good news of the Gospel, what are any of you doing to get the Good news out?? Instead you do all you can to get the Gossip news out. God did not call anyone to spread gossip an nauseum. He wants folks to do all they can to help hasten His return. Sorry, but what you do here is not doing that!! Here is a challenge- try and do something that will Hasten the Lord's return, not retard it! And Mr Pickle- me thinks thou dost protest too much about charismatic cult leaders. You yourself seem to have a bent in that direction. Wake up man, you are on dangerous ground and you think you are safe and secure. "...take heed lest you fall"!




Edited to remove slang reference to the name of God.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Bob Pickle on September 12, 2009, 07:49:49 PM
dburt,

The good news of the Gospel is that if we repent of our wickedness and seek to make restitution, we can be forgiven by God and saved at last.

Thus, Danny Shelton should repent of his many lies.

Danny Shelton should repent of his putting the Illinois Conference at risk, as well as 3ABN, by covering up the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton.

Danny Shelton should repent of using donor money for his own personal purposes, via book deals, real estate transactions, use of the 3ABN jet for personal purposes, and, apparently, 3ABN's payment of his personal legal expenses, and should seek to repay to 3ABN the money he got through these means.

Danny Shelton should repent of his knowingly divorcing his wife without having biblical grounds for doing so, erasing her from 3ABN, and falsely claiming that she was an adulteress. An apology is in order and would give evidence of his repentance.

Danny Shelton should repent of replacing Linda Shelton with Tommy Shelton, whom he knew was a pedophile.

Danny Shelton should repent of his rank hypocrisy of casting aside his lawfully wedded wife because she hid his gun, and kicking her out of 3ABN. I call it rank hypocrisy because it is in stark contrast to how he treated Tommy Shelton and Melody Shelton Mundall Firestone.

Danny Shelton is a little bully who needs to grow up and be a man and apologize for his corruption. He will find it to be very liberating when he does.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Snoopy on September 12, 2009, 08:46:47 PM
ADMIN HAT ON

dburt, how DARE you come in here and start blasting people who have an opinion and preaching about "hastening His return", yet in the same post you have the audacity to take His precious name in vain?  You need to watch your language here, and maybe check on that plank in your own eye...

ADMIN HAT OFF





I gotta ask it one more time- Fran, Pickle, and the rest of you folks who spend your time rooting around in the garbage dump of old gossip going to get a life?? When are you going to re-direct your focus into something worthwhile instead of going over the old 3ABN stuff?? *********, do you not have anything better to do?? There is a world out there dying for lack of the good news of the Gospel, what are any of you doing to get the Good news out?? Instead you do all you can to get the Gossip news out. God did not call anyone to spread gossip an nauseum. He wants folks to do all they can to help hasten His return. Sorry, but what you do here is not doing that!! Here is a challenge- try and do something that will Hasten the Lord's return, not retard it! And Mr Pickle- me thinks thou dost protest too much about charismatic cult leaders. You yourself seem to have a bent in that direction. Wake up man, you are on dangerous ground and you think you are safe and secure. "...take heed lest you fall"!




Edited to remove slang reference to the name of God.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: princessdi on September 22, 2009, 04:56:45 PM
You guys are so funny!  First of all, Bob, the Gospel, the Good News of Jesus Christ is not conditional.  The Gospel is Jesus born lived, died, and resurrected for our sins............while we were yet in our sins. 

Secondly, you can't tell Danny when to repent no more that anyone tells you when to repent.  God allows us all to come into the knowledge of a relationship with Him in HIS own time.  AND that is the first thing we must do is to "Sweep around our own front doors before trying to sweep around some else's"  There was an old song by that name. then wqe can be witnesses to others about what God has done for us...living witnesses....not living judges.  If you really want Danny to repent, then live the repentant life of one who has been redeemed before him. I am not sure, "how us the face of your minor step daughter so we can post it on the world wide web" among other things quite fit the bill of a good witness for God.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Bob Pickle on September 22, 2009, 06:15:02 PM
You guys are so funny!  First of all, Bob, the Gospel, the Good News of Jesus Christ is not conditional.

Scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy both teach that salvation is a free gift that is conditional upon my acceptance of it, as well as confession, repentance, and, where possible, restitution.

RH 04-24-88 even says that we are justified on condition of future obedience.

Secondly, you can't tell Danny when to repent no more that anyone tells you when to repent.

You are absolutely correct.

However, when a Danny clone tries to deflect legitimate concerns by appealing to the need to preach the gospel, regarding which 3ABN is supposed to be countering the counterfeit, I think it important to point out that the gospel requires Danny Shelton, as well as all of us, to repent if we are to be saved. This point, in my opinion, counters that diversion tactic.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: childoftheking on September 25, 2009, 07:50:54 AM
http://www.ministrywatch.com/pdf/PR_Copeland_041208.pdf
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Bob Pickle on September 25, 2009, 08:38:48 AM
http://www.ministrywatch.com/pdf/PR_Copeland_041208.pdf

Quite interesting, quite interesting. Let all take note.

Quote
MinistryWatch.com’s Rusty Leonard Responds To Copeland’s Request For An IRS Audit

Matthews, N.C.--On Saturday, April 12, Kenneth Copeland Ministries (KCM) issued a statement criticizing Sen. Charles Grassley’s investigation into the finances of six televangelists. Copeland said Grassley had no constitutional basis for many of the 42 requests he originally made last November.

Copeland’s statement also said he “would be willing to fully cooperate with the IRS to ensure that the requested information is provided in a timely and efficient manner.” However, Rusty Leonard, the founder and president of MinistryWatch.com, said the response from Copeland was “deceptive and misleading.”

According to Leonard, “Copeland is trying to create the impression that he is being cooperative, when in fact he failed to comply with 25 of the 42 requests for information from Sen. Grassley. Now, he wants the IRS to continue the investigation, but only because IRS investigations are confidential. Copeland doesn’t want the public or his donors to see what he’s been doing, and that’s alarming. It screams that he his hiding something from KCM donors and the public.”

Leonard said that Copeland was clever by asking for the IRS to intervene, because it is his best chance to hold Grassley and the media at bay. “For many years the IRS has been under-resourced when it comes to this kind of investigation,” Leonard said. “An IRS investigation could take years, will be completely out of the public eye, and may result in nothing more than fines for KCM. Copeland has made a business decision that it’s far better for him to deal with the IRS in secret than to face Sen. Grassley or ’60 Minutes’ in public. One can only wonder what he might be trying to hide from his donors.”

Copeland should “come clean,” Leonard said, and fully disclose all requested information to both Grassley, to the donors to KCM, and to the public. “The idea that Copeland is standing on some constitutional principle is simply a diversion,” Leonard said.

Leonard added: “Copeland’s complaint about Sen. Grassley’s right to ask for this information is nothing more than a sideshow. KCM donors themselves have every right to ask for this information and Copeland has a moral obligation, that overrides any constitutional issue, to provide it. Donors are fortunate that Grassley is using his position to act on their behalf. We would have no problem with Copeland not giving the information to Sen. Grassley as long as he made the information public. Hiding behind the veil of the IRS, however, is unacceptable.”

“Grassley is not the issue, it is the lack of accountability and transparency at KCM,” Leonard said.

For More Information: Warren Smith 704-661-9137

Thus, no one should be so gullible as to think that the IRS criminal investigation really exonerated Danny Shelton et. al. of everything, or that Ronnie Shelton was correct in saying that the IRS found not one single discrepancy or infraction.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: princessdi on September 30, 2009, 10:37:41 AM
Quote
Scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy both teach that salvation is a free gift that is conditional upon my acceptance of it, as well as confession, repentance, and, where possible, restitution.

RH 04-24-88 even says that we are justified on condition of future obedience.

Well, let's complete this thought.  It is conditional as it affects your life upon your acceptance.  If it is a free gift, then it is free.  It is there, you just have or have not accepted it.

I am not sure about the inptepretation from the RH reading.  It sounds a bit off in that it is not supported by the Gift of Jesus Sacrifice.  He saved us, died for us, while we were yet in our sins, not depending on future obedience. the ntire Plan of Salvation for was in the event man fell, not his future obedience, but his future disobedience.

Secondly, you can't tell Danny when to repent no more that anyone tells you when to repent.

Quote
You are absolutely correct.

However, when a Danny clone tries to deflect legitimate concerns by appealing to the need to preach the gospel, regarding which 3ABN is supposed to be countering the counterfeit, I think it important to point out that the gospel requires Danny Shelton, as well as all of us, to repent if we are to be saved. This point, in my opinion, counters that diversion tactic.

The problem is you believe that he has not repented, and you lack information or authority to make such a determination.  Nothing says you have to know at which point Danny repents to God, as he only has to repent to God alone.  You may never get that very public show of repentance you desire, as it is not owed.  It does not mean that repentance has not taken place.  God doesn't out your business ini the street like that.  You, we all, rest asured that your repentance is between you and God....so it Danny's.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Bob Pickle on September 30, 2009, 08:24:09 PM
Well, let's complete this thought.  It is conditional as it affects your life upon your acceptance.  If it is a free gift, then it is free.  It is there, you just have or have not accepted it.

I am not sure about the inptepretation from the RH reading.  It sounds a bit off in that it is not supported by the Gift of Jesus Sacrifice.  He saved us, died for us, while we were yet in our sins, not depending on future obedience. the ntire Plan of Salvation for was in the event man fell, not his future obedience, but his future disobedience.

The condition of future obedience is about the same as repentance. We are telling the Lord when we repent that we are planning not to do that again.

You can probably think of a lot of situations where a person or a human court would agree to pardon if the guilty showed remorse and intended not to repeat the offense.

Christ died regardless. But the ones He lets in the pearly gates are those who have allowed Him to change their hearts.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on October 01, 2009, 06:50:31 AM
And what is in our heart is what most often also comes out of our mouths, or what is posted in the various forums of cyberspace.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: childoftheking on October 01, 2009, 08:53:37 AM
Not always. Sometimes it is hidden behind closed doors. And you would never know by hearing a person speak.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: dburt on October 09, 2009, 07:14:37 PM
Snoppy- you and the rest of your ilk here make me physically sick! This site is nothing but a bunch of gossip mongering sickos. Go ahead, strike me off the forum. You folks need help, and you are so blind, naked, wretched and miserable you cannot see the danger you are in. Some of you folks need to get a real life in Christ! You are all doing the work of the great enemy, not the work of Christ! May God help your poor pathetic miserable little souls! Good bye to your ilk, and good riddance!!
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Bob Pickle on October 10, 2009, 06:10:22 AM
Snoppy- you and the rest of your ilk here make me physically sick! This site is nothing but a bunch of gossip mongering sickos. Go ahead, strike me off the forum. You folks need help, and you are so blind, naked, wretched and miserable you cannot see the danger you are in. Some of you folks need to get a real life in Christ! You are all doing the work of the great enemy, not the work of Christ! May God help your poor pathetic miserable little souls! Good bye to your ilk, and good riddance!!

dburt, I don't think Snoopy was the one who suggested that if the minors were consenting, somehow that might make a difference. Would you not agree that someone who feels that way might qualify as being Laodicean?
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on October 10, 2009, 02:09:28 PM
Why don't you inform them of this in the other site, which I now also sadly see and refer to as a smut site?

Snoppy- you and the rest of your ilk here make me physically sick! This site is nothing but a bunch of gossip mongering sickos. Go ahead, strike me off the forum. You folks need help, and you are so blind, naked, wretched and miserable you cannot see the danger you are in. Some of you folks need to get a real life in Christ! You are all doing the work of the great enemy, not the work of Christ! May God help your poor pathetic miserable little souls! Good bye to your ilk, and good riddance!!
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Snoopy on October 11, 2009, 05:22:55 PM
Huh?

I have no idea what you are talking about dburt.  However, one more post like this one and you will be taking a break!!  But I do hope you feel better soon.

Blessings,

Snoopy



Snoppy- you and the rest of your ilk here make me physically sick! This site is nothing but a bunch of gossip mongering sickos. Go ahead, strike me off the forum. You folks need help, and you are so blind, naked, wretched and miserable you cannot see the danger you are in. Some of you folks need to get a real life in Christ! You are all doing the work of the great enemy, not the work of Christ! May God help your poor pathetic miserable little souls! Good bye to your ilk, and good riddance!!
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: WillowRun on October 15, 2009, 07:20:48 PM
Delurking to send warm greetings and an article excoriating Mr. Copeland that was published in the Arkansas Democrat this past Monday....



Televangelist links wealth to strong faith
Tells of cookie from Jesus
By Frank Lockwood

Monday, October 12, 2009

LITTLE ROCK — The Bible is full of jawdropping dreams, visions and divine visitations, but none quite like this one, shared by televangelist Kenneth Copeland during a sermon at Little Rock’s Agape Church.

“The Lord woke me up in the middle of the night,” Copeland told worshippers on Sunday. “There stood Jesus with a huge tray and the tray was heaped with cookies, and he said, ‘Kenneth, have a cookie.’”

Grabbing for one of the bedtime snacks, Copeland says he replied: “I believe I will.”

If you have enough faith to move mountains, Copeland suggested, God can give you the desires of your heart: vigorous health, limitless wealth,unending happiness and eternal life - plus new airplanes and fresh-baked goods.

You believe. You receive.

“Have faith in God,” Copeland said over and over. “That’s God’s plan. Increase. Increase. Growth all the time. Better and better and better.”

As the national unemployment rate creeps toward double digits, Copeland argued that Christians should be exempt from economic downturns. “Big brother” Jesus “bore the curse of poverty” so that the rest of us wouldn’t have to scrape together nickels and dimes, Copeland argued. “We are family - joint heirs - with the wealthiest man that exists.”

Copeland, 72, who has his own airport, knows a thing or two about material abundance. The Fort Worth-areamultimillionaire flies around the world in a ministry-owned $20 million Cessna Citation X jet. He relaxes in an 18,000-square-foot lakeside parsonage. He drives luxury cars and owns a fleet of Harley-Davidson motorcycles.

His family has its own Texas-sized cattle ranch and his church has its own natural gas wells.

Many of Copeland’s followers are committed “tithers” - giving at least 10 percent of their earnings to religious organizations. Some give substantially more.

For his 70th birthday, Copeland and his wife, Gloria, reportedly received personal gifts totaling more than $2 million. (The ministry, while refusing to reveal the exact dollar total, says the gift was actually less than $2 million.)

Copeland, whose lavish spending is under investigation by the U.S. Senate Finance Committee, showedup roughly 15 minutes late for Agape Church’s morning worship service, entering just in time to pray for the sick and to recite the Agape Church donors’ creed.

The words, chanted in unison, echoed throughout the cavernous hall:

“The tithe guarantees financial favor.

“The tithe guarantees your covenant partnership with God.

“The tithe is proof of honor.

“The tithe is proof of obedience.

“The tithe silences the devourer in your life.

“The tithe guarantees consistent harvest on your seed.

“The tithe opens the windows of heaven ...”

Agape Church pastor Happy Caldwell urged everyone - including those facing poverty and hunger - to dig deep, promising God would supernaturally reward them.

During his sermon, Copeland mentioned the economy roughly 10 times, and said the federal government had triggered an “economic mess” by “departing from God.”

But Copeland said his ministry has escaped the ravages of recession. “Our income in the ministry has been going up,” he said.

The crowd peppered Copeland’s message with shouts of “Amen” and “Hallelujah.”

As Copeland wrapped up his sermon, he led worshippers in a chant: “I’m not cursed. I’m blessed. I’m not cursed. I’m blessed.”

Instead of an altar call, the service climaxed with a final financial solicitation - this one aimed at enriching the morning speaker.

The collection “plates” - plastic buckets adorned with the Agape Church logo - made an encore appearance.

“All the offerings,” Caldwell promised, “will go to Brother Copeland.”

Arkansas, Pages 7 on 10/12/2009

Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: tinka on October 16, 2009, 04:22:23 AM
I think his fire is going to be plenty hot. Did you look on Youtube to see someone wrote a song telling of the false profits. I was glad to see that non adventist yet were not on there.  Just click on search then"false profits" and then click on the Olson one.

Maybe it is not to this extent that SDA's observe but it exists in our denomination too. You can start with DS.

It shows how people do not take on their own beliefs with invested study their self. They are followers and not fact finders for truth. It is terrible news to think how many will be lost because they do no get it themselves. They followed the pied pipper like mice.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Little Grasshopper on October 16, 2009, 12:48:24 PM
Tinka, 

I'm not convinced these folks with the jet airplanes even believe in a Higher Power of any kind.  They may not believe there is any such fire as you suggest.  Their immortality comes from passing on the family name to their children and empire building.  That's why they literally worship their own family name to the exclusion of all others.

They may even have the family coat of arms on the wall. And if there is no coat of arms, they invent one.  I've seen that.  It becomes the "House of fill in the blank."

It's money, power, sex, fame, and immortality through procreation.

For these televangelists, God becomes just a tool to exploit people. Nothing more than that. One effective way televangelists take your money is to imply their connection to God is better than yours. After all, if they're getting the messages about plates of cookies, why aren't you? You give your money to them because they have a better "connection" to heaven than you do. I've seen a number of televangelist get the phone calls from Outer Space.  It pays well.  It pays very well, indeed.


Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: tinka on October 16, 2009, 01:35:34 PM
Grasshopper,
I never thought of it that way or to that extent. I believe your right! Now I understand just how they can do it and live with it. That is really good explanation how life lives beyond the corruption of no return.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: WillowRun on October 19, 2009, 04:31:02 PM
Delurking again Advent Talk friends....

 :rabbit:


Breaking News from ABC:

Benny Hinn: 'I Would Not Do This for Money'
Evangelical Leader Under Senate Investigation Sits With 'Nightline' for Rare Interview

REALLY????  Mr. Hinn needs to prove it.  Give up all his luxeries and the money....then I might....might believe him.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/benny-hinn-evangelical-leader-senate-investigation-speaks/story?id=8862027
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: childoftheking on October 20, 2009, 08:08:42 AM
Not for money? What about money and prestige (being treated as a god among men)?
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Murcielago on October 20, 2009, 03:57:06 PM
Lol! These guys claim to represent Jesus in their "ministry." Lets see...

A.  Hinn - a jet
     Jesus - sandals

B.  Hinn - a fleet of cars
     Jesus - a borrowed donkey (once)

C.  Hinn - multiple mansions
     Jesus - "nowhere to lay his head"

At what point did Jesus tell anyone to use him and his message as a tool for gaining wealth?

How about any of the televangelists or great leaders of "ministries?" The disparity I see between them and Jesus is vast.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: princessdi on October 21, 2009, 01:37:13 PM
They have been after Benny Hinn for years.  He seems to bounce back everytime.  In fact, he is not even phased most of the time.  People believe who and what they want to beleive.  Simple.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on October 21, 2009, 01:51:25 PM
Which also seems to be true in regards to DS.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: princessdi on October 22, 2009, 10:55:10 AM
This is true, Daryl. People will simply choose to believe who they want to.  I don't believe Danny lives nearly the plush life of Benny Hinn, but Benny is a more entertaining show.  LOL!!!
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Nosir Myzing on October 22, 2009, 02:51:46 PM
Lol! These guys claim to represent Jesus in their "ministry." Lets see...

A.  Hinn - a jet
     Jesus - sandals

B.  Hinn - a fleet of cars
     Jesus - a borrowed donkey (once)

C.  Hinn - multiple mansions
     Jesus - "nowhere to lay his head"

At what point did Jesus tell anyone to use him and his message as a tool for gaining wealth?

How about any of the televangelists or great leaders of "ministries?" The disparity I see between them and Jesus is vast.

Ok, I am far from a Binny Hinn fan, but let us try to be realistic. Money is not the root of all evil!  the love of money is, as in putting it before God or one another.

Nor are modern inventions and knowledge evil. Do you live without electricity and wear sandals and ride a donkey everywhere you go? Are you without a place to lay your head?:

If Jesus had been born and lived in the 21st century rather than the 1st, do you really think he would have refused to wear tennis shoes or loafers? Do you really think he would have chose to walk or ride a donkey, instead of taking a car, train, or plane? Are you really suggesting he would have refused to have his words and appearances broadcast, or refused to take advantage of the tools available to get the good news to those he loved?

Don't even make me laugh...

Next, it's true Jesus said he had no place to lay his head, (but do you? Do your brethren?) did Jesus tell his friends and followers - the ones he stayed with or otherwise- that they should give up their homes and have no place to lay their head, or did he stay with them in the ir homes?


--->This whole forum is about 3abn, so, according to you, who at 3abn has multiple mansions, and who there would refuse to host Jesus as a guest? Unless you can make a case, your pt is moot imo.

These discussions get more ridiculous to me as they go...

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MODERATOR HAT ON

Personal attacks and attempts to identify members not allowed on the forum.

MODERATOR HAT OFF


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Edited by Artiste to remove inappropriate content.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: princessdi on October 22, 2009, 03:52:34 PM
Now where did this come from?  

--->This whole forum is about 3abn, so, according to you, who at 3abn has multiple mansions, and who there would refuse to host Jesus as a guest? Unless you can make a case, your pt is moot imo.

These discussions get more ridiculous to me as they go...

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Edited by Artiste to remove inappropriate content.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: Bob Pickle on October 22, 2009, 08:18:52 PM
Di, perhaps Nosir Myzing could explain how he or she wasn't surmising in that post.
Title: Re: Charismatic Cult Leaders
Post by: princessdi on October 22, 2009, 10:14:44 PM
Ok?  They lost me on that one. for sure.....