Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Cindy on October 27, 2009, 12:27:25 PM
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Those were the rulings from the District Court in Massachusetts yesterday on all of Pickle and Joy's pending motions.
Full Pacer -Court Docket Text for document 193:
Judge F. Dennis Saylor, IV: ORDER entered
denying [169] Motion to Alter Judgment;
denying [169] Motion for Reconsideration;
denying [169] Motion to Amend;
denying [173] Motion for Leave to File;
denying [183] Motion for Sanctions.
Some select quotes from that order ( bold text, mine):
...Defendants make no argument, and present no evidence, that was not either raised previously or should have been raised previously. Defendants are not entitled to argue the same matter twice simply because they are unhappy with the result. Accordingly, the Court is not convinced that it should reconsider its previous decision, much less reverse it. The motion for reconsideration and to amend or alter the judgment (Docket #169) is therefore DENIED
1 Defendants also sought relief under Fed. R. Civ. P. 52(b), which is clearly inapplicable here.
The relevance of the documents is unclear, and plaintiffs have not demonstrated that the information is newly discovered and could not reasonably have been submitted with the original motion. Furthermore, to the extent that the materials are subject to the Confidentiality and Protective Order issued by Magistrate Judge Hillman in this matter on April 17, 2008, they should have been returned to plaintiffs some time ago. The motion for leave to file under seal (Docket #173) is therefore DENIED
The Court has carefully reviewed defendants’ submissions....all of the disputed assertions fall within the bounds of permissible zealous advocacy, and none are sufficiently problematic to warrant the imposition of sanctions. Defendants’ motion for sanctions (Docket #183) is therefore DENIED.
:dogwag:
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Ian,
Don't be so glued with this. Fact remains fact. This may have entered into man's unjust courts of dishonest judges that can be bought and sold or for what ever reason will side anything against the cause of correctness and aganinst the cause of good will. This has been the devils playground and folly with great glee. This is not the final step because facts now enter the Court of the most High and with the judge knowing all things. That is when I would be shaking in my shoes. That is for real and not these fiascos played out in corrupt courts of the devils playground. Have you not watched any news at all of correctness in courts? Me and my family will be prime examples of what courts can do when higher political want what you have and worked for all your life.
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...Defendants make no argument, and present no evidence, that was not either raised previously or should have been raised previously. Defendants are not entitled to argue the same matter twice simply because they are unhappy with the result. Accordingly, the Court is not convinced that it should reconsider its previous decision, much less reverse it. The motion for reconsideration and to amend or alter the judgment (Docket #169) is therefore DENIED
1 Defendants also sought relief under Fed. R. Civ. P. 52(b), which is clearly inapplicable here.
I had forgotten what the motions were even all about it had been so long. While reviewing the documents on the defenders forum I found the Judges rulings quite interesting (especially the first part which wasn't quoted.) in light of all that Pickle and Joy thought they had accomplished with their unproven claims ,accusations, and irrelevant data. Despite the denials of a small group here who prefer living in la la land, it has been increasingly obvious that they were clearly in over their heads without a leg to stand on. It also appears that their ignorance of what is fact and law is only exceed by their extreme arrogance so it doesn't appear likely the first will change.
Here are both documents quoted in full for those interested in reading all for themselves.
Document 169:
DEFENDANTS’ MOTIONS TO RECONSIDER AND MOTION TO AMEND FINDINGS
ORAL ARGUMENT REQUESTED
Pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 59(e), 60(b) for factors that cannot be considered under 59(e), and 52(b), Defendants move the Court to reconsider its denial of Defendants’ motion to impose costs (Doc. 130), move the Court to reconsider its denial of Defendants’ motion to file under seal (Doc. 153), and move the Court to amend the findings in its orders of April 13 and 15, 2009. Defendants’ motion to file under seal concerned documents relevant to the motion to impose costs, documents which indisputably demonstrate that Plaintiffs filed a frivolous suit, and vexatiously multiplied proceedings.
The Court in its order of April 13, 2009, made the clearly erroneous finding,
“There is nothing in the record to suggest that the plaintiffs filed this suit simply to harass, embarrass, or abuse the defendants or that they sought to increase their costs ....”
On April 15, 2009, Defendants inquired about the status of the motion to file under seal. Later that same day the motion was denied, stating, “The documents do not appear to be relevant,” which cannot possibly be true.
The only condition imposed upon Plaintiffs in their Rule 41(a)(2) dismissal may be unenforcible, and Defendants may therefore be left without any curative conditions to alleviate prejudice. The order of April 13 incorrectly suggests otherwise. Defendants also seek clarification of the findings regarding Defendants’ experts [**********; et al] and miscellaneous expenses.
Defendants, with their limited resources, will be unduly burdened by the incurring of duplicative expenses for discovery and obtaining favorable rulings.
Plaintiffs made material misrepresentations in obtaining their Rule 41(a)(2) dismissal and opposing the motions in question, and used the confidentiality order to hamper or prevent Defendants’ submission of relevant evidence of Plaintiffs’ culpability to the Court.
Plaintiffs have asserted that the dismissal order of November 3, 2008, was not a final order. Defendants disagree. But if Plaintiffs are correct, and only if Plaintiffs are correct, Defendants hereby incorporate the request for relief found in the conclusion of Defendants’ Brief of Defendants-Appellants. (Affidavit of Robert Pickle Ex. B at p. 68).
WHEREFORE, Defendants pray the Court to ALTER or AMEND the orders of April 13 and 15, 2009, in order to GRANT in whole or in part Defendants’ motion to impose costs, GRANT Defendants’ motion to file under seal, and AMEND the findings in question.
Dated: April 26, 2009
and
Respectfully submitted,
/s/ Gailon Arthur Joy, pro se
Gailon Arthur Joy, pro se
Sterling, MA 01564
Tel: (978) 333-6052
/s/ Robert Pickle, pro se
Robert Pickle, pro se
Halstad, MN 56548
Tel: (218) 456-2568
Fax: (206) 203-3751
Document 193
ORDER ON DEFENDANTS’ MOTION TO
RECONSIDER AND TO AMEND FINDINGS, MOTION FOR
LEAVE TO FILE UNDER SEAL, AND MOTION FOR SANCTIONS
SAYLOR, J.
On October 30, 2008, pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 41(a)(2), this Court granted plaintiffs’ motion to dismiss without prejudice on the condition that any renewed claims brought by plaintiffs shall be brought in this Court. On November 13, 2008, defendants, proceeding pro se, filed a motion for costs in connection with that dismissal.
On April 13, 2009, the Court issued an order denying defendants’ motion for costs. On April 15, 2009, the Court issued a further order denying defendants’ motion for leave to file certain documents under seal.
On April 27, 2009, defendants filed a Motion to Reconsider and to Amend Findings. That motion sought reconsideration of the Court’s Orders of April 13 and 15, 2009, and sought amendment or alteration of the judgment under Fed. R. Civ. P. 59(e) and relief from judgment under Fed. R. Civ. P.60(b).1 The same day, defendants filed a further Motion for Leave to File Under Seal seeking to seal certain documents filed in support of the Motion to Reconsider.
Plaintiffs opposed both motions in pleadings filed on May 11, 2009. Defendants then filed, on June 24, 2009, a Motion for Sanctions under Fed. R. Civ. P. 11(c)(2), and the Court’s inherent powers, alleging various misstatements in plaintiffs’ opposition filings.
For the reasons stated below, all three motions will be denied.
A. Motion for Reconsideration and to Amend or Alter the Judgment
A motion under rule 59(e) to alter or amend a judgment may not be used to relitigate matters already determined by the court. See In re Williams, 188 B.R. 721, 725 (D. R.I. 1995). Similarly, a motion to amend may not be used to raise arguments, or to present evidence, that could reasonably have been raised or presented before the entry of judgment. Williams v. Poulos, 11 F.3d 271, 289 (1st Cir. 1993); FDIC v. World Univ. Inc., 978 F.2d 10, 16 (1st Cir. 1992). The party seeking to amend a judgment must demonstrate a manifest error of law or present newly discovered evidence. FDIC v. World Univ. Inc., 978 F.2d at 16. Reconsideration of a previous order is an extraordinary remedy, to be used sparingly when necessary to achieve justice, and with due consideration for the interests of finality and conservation of judicial resources.
Defendants make no argument, and present no evidence, that was not either raised previously or should have been raised previously. Defendants are not entitled to argue the same matter twice simply because they are unhappy with the result. Accordingly, the Court is not convinced that it should reconsider its previous decision, much less reverse it. The motion for reconsideration and to amend or alter the judgment (Docket #169) is therefore DENIED.
1 Defendants also sought relief under Fed. R. Civ. P. 52(b), which is clearly inapplicable here.
B. Motion for Leave to File Under Seal
Defendants’ motion for leave to file under seal seeks an order permitting plaintiffs to file certain exhibits and a related affidavit under seal. The relevance of the documents is unclear, and plaintiffs have not demonstrated that the information is newly discovered and could not reasonably have been submitted with the original motion. Furthermore, to the extent that the materials are subject to the Confidentiality and Protective Order issued by Magistrate Judge Hillman in this matter on April 17, 2008, they should have been returned to plaintiffs some time ago. The motion for leave to file under seal (Docket #173) is therefore DENIED.
C. Motion for Sanctions
Defendants also seek sanctions against plaintiffs under Fed. R. Civ. P. 11 and pursuant to the Court’s inherent powers to redress litigation abuses. In substance, defendants contend that plaintiffs’ memoranda opposing the foregoing motions were “riddled with misstatements of fact that have no evidentiary support” and, in some instances, are “demonstrably intentional.” The Court has carefully reviewed defendants’ submissions. It appears to the Court that all of the disputed assertions fall within the bounds of permissible zealous advocacy, and none are sufficiently problematic to warrant the imposition of sanctions. Defendants’ motion for sanctions (Docket #183) is therefore DENIED.
So Ordered.
/s/ F. Dennis Saylor
F. Dennis Saylor IV
United States District Judge
Dated: October 26, 2009
edit to fix format.
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Furthermore, to the extent that the materials are subject to the Confidentiality and Protective Order issued by Magistrate Judge Hillman in this matter on April 17, 2008, they should have been returned to plaintiffs some time ago.
Okay, Ian and Who_Knows_What_Defender, can you please cite the language from the confidentiality order the order is referring to above, the language that requires parties to return anything?
Defendants make no argument, and present no evidence, that was not either raised previously or should have been raised previously.
Remember that part of our evidence was Danny and 3ABN's appellees' brief. Could you please explain how we could have presented that evidence earlier since it hadn't been written yet?
Another part of our evidence was certain 3ABN World issues that 3ABN refused to produce. Could you please explain how we could have presented that earlier since we never had them?
Now if your answers to the above 3 questions does not jive with the above language taken from the order, could you please explain why the order is worded that way?
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Furthermore, to the extent that the materials are subject to the Confidentiality and Protective Order issued by Magistrate Judge Hillman in this matter on April 17, 2008, they should have been returned to plaintiffs some time ago.
Okay, Ian and Who_Knows_What_Defender, can you please cite the language from the confidentiality order the order is referring to above, the language that requires parties to return anything?
Defendants make no argument, and present no evidence, that was not either raised previously or should have been raised previously.
Remember that part of our evidence was Danny and 3ABN's appellees' brief. Could you please explain how we could have presented that evidence earlier since it hadn't been written yet?
Another part of our evidence was certain 3ABN World issues that 3ABN refused to produce. Could you please explain how we could have presented that earlier since we never had them?
Now if your answers to the above 3 questions does not jive with the above language taken from the order, could you please explain why the order is worded that way?
Nobody owes you any kind of an explanation. The judge was clear and concise (you might learn something from that). The judge clearly understood your motions, clearly understood the law, and deftly and clearly applied it to the case (again, an opportunity for you to learn something). You can continue to play your games, continue to whine, continue to libel the judges and lawyers - but the courts have obviously grown weary of your shenanigans and have decided to hold you to the standard expected. The judge was clear -
No more trying to litigate the case with frivolous motions. No more whining about having to abide by the law and the rules of procedure. When the judge uses language such as, "Defendants make no argument, and present no evidence, that was not either raised previously or should have been raised previously." He has taken the time to consider your claims, consider the law, and render his judgment. Your disrespect and libelous claims about the judges/attorneys speaks to your lack of character. Then there is the footnote that clearly lets you know that you haven't even gotten the law right, "1 Defendants also sought relief under Fed. R. Civ. P. 52(b), which is clearly inapplicable here."
He goes on to point out your failure to effectively make a claim, "[ ] plaintiffs have not demonstrated that the information is newly discovered and could not reasonably have been submitted with the original motion." Your argument did not withstand judicial consideration. A man who has spent his life working with the law has determined that you swung and missed - lesson to be learned. Should people believe your belly-aching or a judge who knows the law? The reasonable individual will accept the judge's order as being a fair and just representation of the law.
The judge also sent you a clear message. You have claimed that he never read your filings previously, something you have NO (none, nada, nilch) evidence to support . . . and Judge Saylor says, "The Court has carefully reviewed defendants’ submissions." You need take note of this because it is clearly connected to your earlier libelous claims. He then goes on to educate you in the American process of jurisprudence - zealous advocacy. That is what this nations system is all about - advocacy. That is what attorneys, or pro-se defendants, do, they advocate, zealously. That doesn't mean it is illegal, doesn't mean it is lying, misrepresenting, misappropriating, or misleading. Attorney Simpson has lead a restrained approach to dealing with you and need be commended for his stellar, honest, and genuine work.
You have attempted to try your "case" in the courts and in the court of public opinion and you have lost on all fronts. 3ABN continues to be an instrument of God reaching the world. Weekly new converts are baptized across the world with words of gratitude on their lips for being introduced to the love of the Savior via 3ABN. It is safe to say that not a one has stood in the batisimal font and claimed that they were lead to the foot of the Savior's cross of by Robert Pickle or Gailon Joy. You will have to live with that the rest of your life, when called, and you ask, "When did I miss an opportunity to serve you Lord?" He will answer, "All the while you fought against Me. All the while you attacked My people. All the while you focused on your own fame and fortune at the expense of reaching the hurting souls."
anyman
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Anyman,
Your glee has nailed you. what era are you from anyway. You have the sound of living in many generations. This era is down to almost no stability in anything with the courts of corruption to use the system in any fiasco to down God's people. After all they are really siding to take God out of everything. And this is the side you claim for your self. The truth shall stand and let us watch what God does about it. Your glee will come to nought.
I watch the glee of people also that love the execution of ones fallen with lost souls. What lost souls will you be gleeful over when new members 3abn have scanned in and then because they found a message of truth finally realize the Baker and DS agendas and turn with disgust to loose their souls. Injustice surrounds this earth this day and time and you are a protector of it. eat on :horse:
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When the judge uses language such as, "Defendants make no argument, and present no evidence, that was not either raised previously or should have been raised previously." He has taken the time to consider your claims, consider the law, and render his judgment.
Anyman, how could we have presented evidence previously that we didn't have or that didn't yet exist?
Then there is the footnote that clearly lets you know that you haven't even gotten the law right, "1 Defendants also sought relief under Fed. R. Civ. P. 52(b), which is clearly inapplicable here."
And why didn't he give any reason as to why it was "clearly inapplicable"? Since the judge made two findings in his previous orders that were clearly erroneous, and since FRCP 52(b) concerns the correcting of such errors, in what way is 52(b) inapplicable?
He goes on to point out your failure to effectively make a claim, "[ ] plaintiffs have not demonstrated that the information is newly discovered and could not reasonably have been submitted with the original motion."
The printing invoices don't need to be newly discovered since they go to the question of the proper interpretation of newly discovered evidence, as we already pointed out. Plus, since we have to get leave of the court to file sealed material, and since the court refused to let us file under seal the Remnant documents, it is difficult to see how we could have "reasonably ... submitted" any of the material earlier.
Should people believe your belly-aching or a judge who knows the law?
Anyone can see that the confidentiality order does not require parties to return documents, and that you can't present evidence before it exists or when the other side withholds it from you.
You have claimed that he never read your filings previously, something you have NO (none, nada, nilch) evidence to support . . . and Judge Saylor says, "The Court has carefully reviewed defendants’ submissions."
Sure, he said he read that one. But the evidence indicates that he didn't read our opposition to the motion to dismiss before he dismissed the case.
That is what attorneys, or pro-se defendants, do, they advocate, zealously. That doesn't mean it is illegal, doesn't mean it is lying, misrepresenting, misappropriating, or misleading.
Are you therefore saying that the disputed statements are 100% correct?
3ABN continues to be an instrument of God reaching the world.
We aren't saved by works. Good works don't excuse Danny Shelton from covering up Tommy's child molestation, or engaging in private inurement, including receiving kickbacks, or divorcing Linda without biblical grounds, or filing a frivolous suit.
It is safe to say that not a one has stood in the batisimal font and claimed that they were lead to the foot of the Savior's cross of by Robert Pickle or Gailon Joy.
I would certainly hope not. The glory should go to God, not me. But I could introduce you to some folks who have stood in the baptistry because God used me, a fallible human being.
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With personnel email to Fran I sort of led in questions that I suspected the outcome might be just that way before Ian's great announcement. I know how the system works and for what reasons.
I am wondering Fran if you got my mail and vouch for what I am saying.
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3ABN Defender, you have no credibility. You lied about my brother and me. You were called on it and made no attempt to prove what you said. Why should anyone pay attention to you?
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Uh, Bob, it might be time for you all to give this one up. Why are you asking Ian and Duane to clarify the judges decision? He is quite clear, however, you should consult him on any questions you have regarding his judgement. Ian and Duane are only "quoting" the decision. it is not their place to explain the judges decision. I usually have to take it slow in reading legal documents, but this one was quite clear.
I believe Tinka is right, and the time for the earthly courts is over. At this point, we just to have faith that God knows best and it will al work out according to His will. Just remember, you still might not like His decision either...afterall... His is allowing this to unfold as it is, and so far, He seems to agree with the earthly judge........that is until we hear or see something else.
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Princessdi,
What Bob is doing is showing the inadequacies of how the judges can twist and use their ego authorities to lean how ever they want.
I do not blame him one bit. I have done the whole thing my self on all the injustice of our case on a huge web site for all to see what state, federal and huge national organization did. In fact many other people's cases are out there that have suffered fraudulent agendas lobbists of political offices. and you know what these big guys cannot do one thing about our web site as they take their blows inch by inch as the truth prevails. In fact it is quite funny to watch now our stat counter at the culprits frantically go from one link to the next and then their buddies pick up where we know they are at. Their own documents from day one with all their signitures and their fraudlent schemes are all out there for all to see. I left a place for the feedback and not one negitive thing has come because they are in a place of "can't do a thing about the truth". Now we will be working on the twisted Court of Appeals (opinion) sentence by corrupt sentence of lies and post that soon too. i keep right on it. This political "money pit government" is not for the people but who will get us into the one world order and in their stupid ignorant way think they will be the messiah of all things. Your Adventist you know what I am talking about and how this will end. DS is just a little scale of his management in money that I see no different. It's a good con game. One thing for sure Bob and Gailon are not in the shoes and side that DS is on.
First of all, I do not know Bob or Gailon but a very good suggestion of what was against them from the beginning is courts are not susceptable for very intelligent people that are not on the lawyers bar to out show the court and they look down on anyone going into the courts that can show you need not be an attorney to enter what every American has the right to do. or maybe they are attorneys, I do not know. Just try and enter their ground. I believe Bob and Gailon and knowing the courts with what all we have been through did an emaculate job. I wish they could have been on our side and our battle because my husband is another to stand in front of 12 senators at a time and speak with out notes until you could hear a pin drop.
It is not that these men lost because of their lack of knowhow, but again this is the time of the end where sin prevails. Some of us are going through it now. We can only fight until the end or God does the knock down. This sort of thing is never of God but he permits some of his best to be used to test others. Many have been tested by our situation. We have tried to stay strong knowing this could be a possibility that the Lord used us in this manner and also for ourselves to learn the devils folly.
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Interesting developments here.
What happens next, or, as princessdi has suggested, is that it?
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Uh, Bob, it might be time for you all to give this one up. Why are you asking Ian and Duane to clarify the judges decision? He is quite clear, however, you should consult him on any questions you have regarding his judgement. Ian and Duane are only "quoting" the decision. it is not their place to explain the judges decision. I usually have to take it slow in reading legal documents, but this one was quite clear.
I believe Tinka is right, and the time for the earthly courts is over. At this point, we just to have faith that God knows best and it will al work out according to His will. Just remember, you still might not like His decision either...afterall... His is allowing this to unfold as it is, and so far, He seems to agree with the earthly judge........that is until we hear or see something else.
Huh? I think you have me confused with someone else. ;)
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ex3abnemployee,
Since it might be public knowledge and I do not know if this might be right to ask but would you email me on your knowledge of who 3abn defender is? It seems you know. Thanks Duane.
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Interesting developments here.
What happens next, or, as princessdi has suggested, is that it?
No, that isn't it. But what happens next, well, you'll just have to wait and see.
It dawned on me yesterday another problem with being forced to return documents that the confidentiality order doesn't require me to return. At any point in time Danny can drag me back in to court and claim I'm in contempt for revealing something in those documents, and he could theoretically even show the court a document I never received, claiming I was revealing something I had received. I would then not be able to show the court what I had actually received, making it more difficult to prove Danny's claim false.
As far as I'm concerned, allowing for the possibility of that sort of situation is unacceptable.
The confidentiality order doesn't require parties to return any documents, and everyone either knows or should know that by now, especially since no one, not Simpson, not anyone, can quote where the confidentiality order does so require.
Now if Danny and his cronies want to act like men and Christians and negotiate some sort of fair way to resolve these concerns and others, I'm more than interested. But if not ...
Stay tuned!
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Sorry! did I? Oh my. My old brain.....forgive me please. Hehehe! That should have been 3ABN Defencder, I believe........
Uh, Bob, it might be time for you all to give this one up. Why are you asking Ian and Duane to clarify the judges decision? He is quite clear, however, you should consult him on any questions you have regarding his judgement. Ian and Duane are only "quoting" the decision. it is not their place to explain the judges decision. I usually have to take it slow in reading legal documents, but this one was quite clear.
I believe Tinka is right, and the time for the earthly courts is over. At this point, we just to have faith that God knows best and it will al work out according to His will. Just remember, you still might not like His decision either...afterall... His is allowing this to unfold as it is, and so far, He seems to agree with the earthly judge........that is until we hear or see something else.
Huh? I think you have me confused with someone else. ;)
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Sorry! did I? Oh my. My old brain.....forgive me please. Hehehe! That should have been 3ABN Defencder, I believe........
Uh, Bob, it might be time for you all to give this one up. Why are you asking Ian and Duane to clarify the judges decision? He is quite clear, however, you should consult him on any questions you have regarding his judgement. Ian and Duane are only "quoting" the decision. it is not their place to explain the judges decision. I usually have to take it slow in reading legal documents, but this one was quite clear.
I believe Tinka is right, and the time for the earthly courts is over. At this point, we just to have faith that God knows best and it will al work out according to His will. Just remember, you still might not like His decision either...afterall... His is allowing this to unfold as it is, and so far, He seems to agree with the earthly judge........that is until we hear or see something else.
Huh? I think you have me confused with someone else. ;)
LOL No problem, but I assure you I am NOT 3ABN Defender. :ROFL:
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And as well as I knew t hat, it never crossed my mind as I was typing.........just sad, isn't it?
LOL No problem, but I assure you I am NOT 3ABN Defender. :ROFL:
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Well, now Bob, I see now motivation for Danny to talk to you about anything, especially since he hasn't said anything to this point. Everyone knows you all still have the documents, and they don't seem to care. Especially with the jusge only saying that you should have returned them by now, without really ordering you to do so.
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Then Tinka, all the more reason the let it go. They have only one court system here in the US to which they can appeal, the same one that yielded this most complete denial.
Princessdi,
What Bob is doing is showing the inadequacies of how the judges can twist and use their ego authorities to lean how ever they want.
I do not blame him one bit. I have done the whole thing my self on all the injustice of our case on a huge web site for all to see what state, federal and huge national organization did. In fact many other people's cases are out there that have suffered fraudulent agendas lobbists of political offices. and you know what these big guys cannot do one thing about our web site as they take their blows inch by inch as the truth prevails. In fact it is quite funny to watch now our stat counter at the culprits frantically go from one link to the next and then their buddies pick up where we know they are at. Their own documents from day one with all their signitures and their fraudlent schemes are all out there for all to see. I left a place for the feedback and not one negitive thing has come because they are in a place of "can't do a thing about the truth". Now we will be working on the twisted Court of Appeals (opinion) sentence by corrupt sentence of lies and post that soon too. i keep right on it. This political "money pit government" is not for the people but who will get us into the one world order and in their stupid ignorant way think they will be the messiah of all things. Your Adventist you know what I am talking about and how this will end. DS is just a little scale of his management in money that I see no different. It's a good con game. One thing for sure Bob and Gailon are not in the shoes and side that DS is on.
First of all, I do not know Bob or Gailon but a very good suggestion of what was against them from the beginning is courts are not susceptable for very intelligent people that are not on the lawyers bar to out show the court and they look down on anyone going into the courts that can show you need not be an attorney to enter what every American has the right to do. or maybe they are attorneys, I do not know. Just try and enter their ground. I believe Bob and Gailon and knowing the courts with what all we have been through did an emaculate job. I wish they could have been on our side and our battle because my husband is another to stand in front of 12 senators at a time and speak with out notes until you could hear a pin drop.
It is not that these men lost because of their lack of knowhow, but again this is the time of the end where sin prevails. Some of us are going through it now. We can only fight until the end or God does the knock down. This sort of thing is never of God but he permits some of his best to be used to test others. Many have been tested by our situation. We have tried to stay strong knowing this could be a possibility that the Lord used us in this manner and also for ourselves to learn the devils folly.
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Furthermore, to the extent that the materials are subject to the Confidentiality and Protective Order issued by Magistrate Judge Hillman in this matter on April 17, 2008, they should have been returned to plaintiffs some time ago. The motion for leave to file under seal (Docket #173) is therefore DENIED
Only to the extent that the materials are subject to the Confidentiality and Protective Order (see the order.).
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Then Tinka, all the more reason the let it go. They have only one court system here in the US to which they can appeal, the same one that yielded this most complete denial.
Sorry for the confusion, Di. The above order was issued by the District Court, not the First Circuit Court of Appeals. We have not appealed the above order at this point.
Even if we had, and even if the above order was issued by the Court of Appeals, there are still possible ways to appeal it further, including to the U.S. Supreme Court.
A careful reader of our submissions would see that there are constitutional issues at stake in some of these decisions which the Supreme Court might find interesting.
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Bob, you can do anything you want, because you are right there are avenues left. The question is should you proceed. Just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should do it. Is this truly the way God is leading you, or are you attempting to lead Him becaue you are agnry and vengneful against Danny. Are you all going to finally give this situation over to the Only One Who truly has the Authority to judge Danny or continue under your own power relying on the judicial systems of man?
It is not about me and how "careful" I read, Bob. It is not that deep neither that difficult to understand, believe me. Is it about you all believing that you have some authoritiy to bring Danny to justice and/or repentance for his sins. That is what you all need to address within yourselves.
Sorry for the confusion, Di. The above order was issued by the District Court, not the First Circuit Court of Appeals. We have not appealed the above order at this point.
Even if we had, and even if the above order was issued by the Court of Appeals, there are still possible ways to appeal it further, including to the U.S. Supreme Court.
A careful reader of our submissions would see that there are constitutional issues at stake in some of these decisions which the Supreme Court might find interesting.
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PrincessDi ,
You might look at this way. If someone was thieving you wouldn't you want someone to have them stop.
You might even take it into your own hands to do something about it.
This is a little larger scale and somebody has to stop the thievery of pew money or the big con game they got going for the ignorant.
There are laws. I don't think you would set back with this solution if someone was taking right out of your hand and having one good time with your assets. I sure am glad we have some laws.
Now I have just enough of a little red neck Annie Oakley in me and their loaded hanging on the wall. Yes, I am an American that believes the rights of the constitution (laugh) to bear arms that is almost out the door. Not much protection left!! It is all because finally there is no concern for anyone but ourselves. Think about how they are gettting their money and what they done with it. That should tell you what is right. and with your own eye it shows how they spent it..
You know Di, that is what is happening to the church's also. No one thinks to stand up for what is right and they just go with what suits them now adays. Not much left there either. morals, believe in a little wine, jewelry, dancing and etc. EGW out the door and Whats cool for Sabbath. Now I watch the evolution theory getting tossed around. Should we not have any responsibility in nothing but somehow these forefathers and patriarchs sure had it going!
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Actually, I do believe just that, Tinka. I am not very popular often times at the board meetings because I do just that. However, once you have called sin by it's name and brought attention to it, there is where your responsibility stops. There is no use in seeking the resolution to a spiriutal problem in the "worldly"(for lack of a better word) courts? Most of what you all are accusing Danny of is immoral and unethical, but they are not going to prosecute,or put him in jail) him for it. The civil courts are not going to make him pay for it. The government agencies called into the fray, thus far, have come up with the same conclusion. They don't really see nothing there, but nothing worth any sanctions. Youhave heard this several times already. you admit that you dont' really believe they will "do the right thing" as you see it. Why continue going back to them?
There is s time and season for everything....time to let this one go.
PrincessDi ,
You might look at this way. If someone was thieving you wouldn't you want someone to have them stop.
You might even take it into your own hands to do something about it.
This is a little larger scale and somebody has to stop the thievery of pew money or the big con game they got going for the ignorant.
There are laws. I don't think you would set back with this solution if someone was taking right out of your hand and having one good time with your assets. I sure am glad we have some laws.
Now I have just enough of a little red neck Annie Oakley in me and their loaded hanging on the wall. Yes, I am an American that believes the rights of the constitution (laugh) to bear arms that is almost out the door. Not much protection left!! It is all because finally there is no concern for anyone but ourselves. Think about how they are gettting their money and what they done with it. That should tell you what is right. and with your own eye it shows how they spent it..
You know Di, that is what is happening to the church's also. No one thinks to stand up for what is right and they just go with what suits them now adays. Not much left there either. morals, believe in a little wine, jewelry, dancing and etc. EGW out the door and Whats cool for Sabbath. Now I watch the evolution theory getting tossed around. Should we not have any responsibility in nothing but somehow these forefathers and patriarchs sure had it going!
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In another thread I have pointed out what is happening in our local Lutheran Church where the pastor seems to be vindicated for accusations against immoral behavior, even by the state supreme court. But even if he is cleared by the secular courts the local church and the bishop will not re-instate him because of the testimony of two teenage girls.
Here we see that the vindication by a secular court does not count.
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I believe we are called to stand up and call sin by its right name and then take the consequences. The martyrs did it. The abolishionists did it. Jesus did it. All that is necessary for evil to win is for good men to do nothing. If we only speak when we know we will win, what are we to do when the Sunday law is in effect? Keep speaking or fold?
And are we have to pay our tithe and shut up - overlooking known sin and lawbreaking because the church leaders are afraid of the influence an organization has on the work in Russia or on many people in this county? So what if that organization or person gets away with it? May we not speak anyway? We are told that we as a people are to be called to account by heaven for what we allow to go on in our church and yet are we not to be allowed to speak out without fear of being sued? Are we to help cover it up so as not to embarrass anyone?
I can just imagine the number of lawsuits that would have been filed against Sister White for what she had said. I can imagine Jesus in a court of law. Oh, wait, I don't have to imagine. He was tried and he lost his case. Didn't prove he was wrong though.
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Bob, you can do anything you want, because you are right there are avenues left. The question is should you proceed. Just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should do it. Is this truly the way God is leading you, or are you attempting to lead Him becaue you are agnry and vengneful against Danny. Are you all going to finally give this situation over to the Only One Who truly has the Authority to judge Danny or continue under your own power relying on the judicial systems of man?
It is not about me and how "careful" I read, Bob. It is not that deep neither that difficult to understand, believe me. Is it about you all believing that you have some authoritiy to bring Danny to justice and/or repentance for his sins. That is what you all need to address within yourselves.
Laying all that aside, the litigation still doesn't end. That's not what all of this is about at the moment. It's about whether Danny should be allowed legally to sue me over the very same issues, whether I should be muzzled about the contents of documents that never should have been designated confidential, and Simpson's threat to drag me back into court after the case was already dismissed.
If they want to continue their harassment and threats, then they are the ones who don't want it to end.
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In another thread I have pointed out what is happening in our local Lutheran Church where the pastor seems to be vindicated for accusations against immoral behavior, even by the state supreme court. But even if he is cleared by the secular courts the local church and the bishop will not re-instate him because of the testimony of two teenage girls.
Here we see that the vindication by a secular court does not count.
Very good, Johann. That is also relevant to another situation which I happen to be very familiar with.
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...and he was threatening to drag you back into court because.........?
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The courts found that he did nothing illegal, that doesn't say he has done anything unethical or immoral. However, the situation is still different as the Lutheran Pastor ris an employee of the Lutheran church under their authority. Danny is head of his own indipendenet ministry which is SDA, not SDA, when convenient.........Yes, I completely understand that was done for legal standing, just still does not sit right for some reason, The US courts will continue to find Danny not guilty of anything illegal, the civil courts will rule that he has done nothing that requires financial sanctions. On the religious side, you cant' get GC to even reconsider using them, they have done a few small things, but not completely denounced or even taken any disciplinary action. You have listed over, an over again what he has done, a goodportion pretty well documented. God knew what Danny did and does, before he actually executes it.
What exactly do you all want to happen, besides the 3ABN board and GC raising up to oust Danny from his own ministry? ...been done before, but don't see it being done in this situation.
In another thread I have pointed out what is happening in our local Lutheran Church where the pastor seems to be vindicated for accusations against immoral behavior, even by the state supreme court. But even if he is cleared by the secular courts the local church and the bishop will not re-instate him because of the testimony of two teenage girls.
Here we see that the vindication by a secular court does not count.
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I would like to see him stopped from taking in any more money on the skirts of Adventist people with the claim of non denominational claims.
I continue to see large attorney bills, and many other extravaganza views that SDA people keep paying for. Most of all the reason is he is a thief and let this blow some minds but that is point blank when you get funds in the manner that he has gotten it. They were God's funds for God's purposes not for ego lifestyle. It is a facts that the courts don't care about religious things if the people are ignorant to keep feeding his agenda. He can be named with the rest of those tv clowns. I think it might not be long before you really see some stuff coming from that direction as he is now the untouchable.
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I personally would like the leaders of the church or those at 3ABN to break it gently to the people that there might just have been something wrong going on at 3ABN, tell people who are interested what the concerns were or are and show the documented proof (if any) by both defenders and investigators. Let them know we have genuine concern. No Favoritism just because 3ABN happens to be popular and privileged. Let them know what has been done to correct the problem areas and quit trying to cover it up. From the beginning people who had questions have been villified and insulted just for asking questions when we had no idea whether the answers were going to be favorable to them or not - not only that but they tried to intimidate people and then sued and/or threatened to sue some of us.
Enough of this "Danny had a dream stuff."
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...and he was threatening to drag you back into court because.........?
It's part of why we appealed. Read Simpson's letter at http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-152-8.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-152-8.pdf).
Simpson for the very first time, after the case was dismissed, tried to say that everything we got via subpoena was confidential, which would include stuff from Dunn Loring about Tommy. That's his #3 in his letter. But how could Simpson do that? Because Tommy's child molestation is a trade secret of 3ABN? But that's what it would have to be in order for Simpson to cal it confidential.
But waiting until after the case was dismissed was too long to wait. How could Simpson then declare everything we got from Kathy Bottomley to be confidential after the case was already dismissed?
And then Simpson said:
I want to impress upon both of you the importance of full compliance with the Confidentiality and Protective Order. If I become aware of any evidence that Confidential material has been retained by you or released to others by you, or if I become aware of internet postings that reflect or imply the contents of Confidential materials, my instructions are to immediately seek relief from the Court.
Simpson ought to know by now that threats won't get him anywhere. He ought to learn how to behave like a Christian gentleman if he is going to represent a supposed Christian ministry. And threatening me if I reveal what is in the documents I got from Dunn Loring is not behaving like a Christian gentleman. It is really despicable that Simpson would stoop so low as to try to cover up the child molestation allegations in this way.
Now note, Di, they want to muzzle me forever, without ever winning their case. Is that acceptable? Think of all the church administrators, pastors, elders, and such that could end up being muzzled, prevented from dealing with serious problems, simply because some bully out there pulls these type of legal shenanigans. It can't be tolerated.
I am a citizen of the United States of America, and as such I am entitled to constitutional and statutory rights. I don't intend to waive them. And if Danny Shelton doesn't like that, that's just tough.
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"We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat."
-- Queen Victoria
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Ok so, what do you do next? The court has ruled....now Like you say, you could take this all thew ay to the Supreme crout if you like, but for some reason, I am nost seeing them even giving hoot aboutTS less than stellar behavior while pastoring, or Danny's divorce from Linda, or even that he lied about him and Brandy. What do you take to a higher court that they will even consider? Do youe xpect them to stop Danny? remove him from 3ABN?
They can threated to haul you back into court because they dropped the suit, and I am reading right the judge acce;ted that...without prejudice which means they can file suit again..........if you don't leave him alone. In fact, thanks to you all, they could have picked up the old case until this judgement. They stopped the suit,,, as you have been almost begging them to do for years now( which was just confusing to me. You have threads about how wasteful and a sin it was for them to spend extravagant amounts of money to sue members of the Household of Faith, and when they dropped the suit, you all objected....go figure!).......and they expect for you to drop your talk......or slander as they see it. I don't believe they are being unreasonable here, Bob. You all have said some horrible things about each other, very unChrist-like, all the while claiming God is on your side. So if they stopped, what is unreasonable about expecting you to stop.
Anyway, these are just some questions and thoughts going through my head. mainly, what do you really expect the courts, or anyone, to do about Danny
It's part of why we appealed. Read Simpson's letter at http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-152-8.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-152-8.pdf).
Simpson for the very first time, after the case was dismissed, tried to say that everything we got via subpoena was confidential, which would include stuff from Dunn Loring about Tommy. That's his #3 in his letter. But how could Simpson do that? Because Tommy's child molestation is a trade secret of 3ABN? But that's what it would have to be in order for Simpson to cal it confidential.
But waiting until after the case was dismissed was too long to wait. How could Simpson then declare everything we got from Kathy Bottomley to be confidential after the case was already dismissed?
And then Simpson said:
I want to impress upon both of you the importance of full compliance with the Confidentiality and Protective Order. If I become aware of any evidence that Confidential material has been retained by you or released to others by you, or if I become aware of internet postings that reflect or imply the contents of Confidential materials, my instructions are to immediately seek relief from the Court.
Simpson ought to know by now that threats won't get him anywhere. He ought to learn how to behave like a Christian gentleman if he is going to represent a supposed Christian ministry. And threatening me if I reveal what is in the documents I got from Dunn Loring is not behaving like a Christian gentleman. It is really despicable that Simpson would stoop so low as to try to cover up the child molestation allegations in this way.
Now note, Di, they want to muzzle me forever, without ever winning their case. Is that acceptable? Think of all the church administrators, pastors, elders, and such that could end up being muzzled, prevented from dealing with serious problems, simply because some bully out there pulls these type of legal shenanigans. It can't be tolerated.
I am a citizen of the United States of America, and as such I am entitled to constitutional and statutory rights. I don't intend to waive them. And if Danny Shelton doesn't like that, that's just tough.
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Princessdi,
I know you are not addressing me but I don't think you understand all. also it is not just mere statements made on behalf of what DS has done.
Bob can show the corruption and actions of the courts and it takes a shear genious to catch them up. But they all protect each other and then that is what seems impossible to get through.
Sometimes Di the culprit with loose funds to play with can keep you in the system and keep you fighting. Hopefully it backfires soon on the liar and theif. The people of ignorance of the situation gives DS his play money to pass go and that way he can also keep feeding his :horse: s.
It is most cunning the acts that can be used in the system for evil. If DS's money was stopped so would the courts!!! and keep in mind that the men that stood up to wrong had nothing to gain in monetary funds. DS has everything to loose. even to LS.
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I heard through the grapevine that DL's biggest funds provider stopped providing those funds, which resulted in the dropping of this lawsuit?
The problem is that I can't remember where I heard this.
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I heard through the grapevine that DL's biggest funds provider stopped providing those funds, which resulted in the dropping of this lawsuit?
The problem is that I can't remember where I heard this.
It might be interesting to see if anyone can prove that you are wrong.
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I understand more than you know an then some, tinka. I have been following this for a while, at one point virtually refereeing the two sides, along with Calvin and Steve, on BSDA. It is a HUGE, HOT mess! But yet and still the courts have not found him quilty of any crminal offense, and apparently GC(the church) is not finding him guilty of any moral or spiritual offenses. Not that the church is right( just the moral issues are enough to at least censure the rank and file member), they just have done nothing about it. Why continue to appeal to either one?
Princessdi,
I know you are not addressing me but I don't think you understand all. also it is not just mere statements made on behalf of what DS has done.
Bob can show the corruption and actions of the courts and it takes a shear genious to catch them up. But they all protect each other and then that is what seems impossible to get through.
Sometimes Di the culprit with loose funds to play with can keep you in the system and keep you fighting. Hopefully it backfires soon on the liar and theif. The people of ignorance of the situation gives DS his play money to pass go and that way he can also keep feeding his :horse: s.
It is most cunning the acts that can be used in the system for evil. If DS's money was stopped so would the courts!!! and keep in mind that the men that stood up to wrong had nothing to gain in monetary funds. DS has everything to loose. even to LS.
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Di,
I should have made myself more clear. I am talking about the issues of the courts. I can imagine for sure that you know more then I do with a lot more detail as I ventured into the other post I think about 1 time and that was a lot to take on. That is where it was discussed about Melody, I mostly just stay on this one only.
The laxness on this by the church and leadership has really got me dumbfounded. I don't want to believe it but I know it is true. I just can't understand why this has been allowed. All I know is that it is true that the greatest lights will go out and whole conferences will go along with wrong actions as they give up inch by inch our beliefs. What can I say I feel I already am seeing this happen and even though I read and realize what is coming,,, Guess we must except it must be now.
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Ok so, what do you do next? The court has ruled....now Like you say, you could take this all thew ay to the Supreme crout if you like, but for some reason, I am nost seeing them even giving hoot aboutTS less than stellar behavior while pastoring, or Danny's divorce from Linda, or even that he lied about him and Brandy. What do you take to a higher court that they will even consider? Do youe xpect them to stop Danny? remove him from 3ABN?
They can threated to haul you back into court because they dropped the suit, and I am reading right the judge acce;ted that...without prejudice which means they can file suit again..........if you don't leave him alone. In fact, thanks to you all, they could have picked up the old case until this judgement. They stopped the suit,,, as you have been almost begging them to do for years now( which was just confusing to me. You have threads about how wasteful and a sin it was for them to spend extravagant amounts of money to sue members of the Household of Faith, and when they dropped the suit, you all objected....go figure!).......and they expect for you to drop your talk......or slander as they see it. I don't believe they are being unreasonable here, Bob. You all have said some horrible things about each other, very unChrist-like, all the while claiming God is on your side. So if they stopped, what is unreasonable about expecting you to stop.
Anyway, these are just some questions and thoughts going through my head. mainly, what do you really expect the courts, or anyone, to do about Danny
1. They can sue us again even if we never say another word. There's nothing to stop them presently.
2. The suit was dropped without asking us to never say another word.
3. They are trying to take away our discovery documents which cost us a lot of time and effort and money to get, even though the confidentiality order doesn't say we have to give them to them. Then if they sue us again, we would have to start from scratch fighting to get documents. They ought to let us keep the documents in peace, just like we have a legal right to do.
4. I think we should be free to talk about things as if it went to trial. If it went to trial, most or all evidence would become public record. And that's what I think it should be. I don't think we should be threatened for the rest of our lives over stuff that would have become public record.
5. They should have dropped the suit without playing all these stupid lawyer games. And they should have paid our expenses, since they are the ones who filed a frivolous suit.
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The laxness on this by the church and leadership has really got me dumbfounded.
There is the possibility that Church leaders were afraid that Danny Shelton would sue them if they did, and that it might cost the church an enormous sum of money in court expenses.
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Ok Bob, if they sropped the suit against the little guy they knew had nowhere near their resources, and you stopped running Danny in the ground and making him out as and anti-christ, there is no reason for them to sue you again.
Why would you keep thos documents? I believe that is why the judgement doesn't require or order that you give them back, just says you should have. Plus, whatever went on in the trial, so far you are losing the battles and the war, what difference does it make? Why would they pay your legal fees? You really want them to pay the legal fees on a suit that if you had your way would still be progressing in court. They would more than likely only be responsible for yourlegal fees if they loss. They didn't everyone pays their own legal fees.......and I thought most of the time you allwere representing yourselves?
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Well Di,
In just simple common ordinary sense, (and just surmizing again) if Bob gave all documents of proof back and then DS turned around and sued with his option to do for revenge how would Bob prove his side?? with no documents??
Bob is up against begged for pew money and corruption with courts seeking the same with a filled pocket sucker the same ....as long as the money keeps coming in the lawyers spin their spin. Now just who is the devil here? It should have taken the people within the church to take this on....people to stand up against this -where are they as most I think will take your view. But in the courts of corruption is hardly a chance is my view but Bob and Gailon's view is to stand up to corruption with the knowledge they have to fight the cancer within. Don't you think in the broad picture that someting like this is the destroyer of the church by using mostly what is right and the one thing that is wrong bring the church down. Will anyone else stand to this?
Johann, I guess I'm not able to figure out real quick on how the church was afraid that maybe DS could sue them. Those inner working and connections if DS claims non denominational. How is it that they cannot disconnect from him? Maybe the media and bad publicity of the church?
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Johann, I guess I'm not able to figure out real quick on how the church was afraid that maybe DS could sue them. Those inner working and connections if DS claims non denominational. How is it that they cannot disconnect from him? Maybe the media and bad publicity of the church?
Those things are difficult to find out - unfortunately.
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I heard through the grapevine that DL's biggest funds provider stopped providing those funds, which resulted in the dropping of this lawsuit?
The problem is that I can't remember where I heard this.
Since you "heard it through the grapevine" is there a possibility you shouldn't be repeating it? Your "grapevine" has proven not to be reliable time and again. If I had a dime for everytime one of you have said "I heard" I would be rich.
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The laxness on this by the church and leadership has really got me dumbfounded.
There is the possibility that Church leaders were afraid that Danny Shelton would sue them if they did, and that it might cost the church an enormous sum of money in court expenses.
Johann, try to stay with us in the real world here. You can watch 3abn anytime day or night and see conference people on the programs from the GC on down. I hardly think they work closely with 3abn because they are scared of a lawsuit. This weekend 3abn will be in Battle Creek with a combo 25th Anniversary special and a "Pillars of faith" project. The colleges and academies will be involved with the music, the meals and hosting the event. Congratulations have been received from Steven Bohr, Doug B, Kenneth C, David A and a host of others. Did it ever occur to anyone here that the reason this, and many other events, are supported by these ministers and the conference is because they are all privy to the facts in relation to 3abn? While those here, speculate, surmise, gossip and even lie when need be.
Give it up, it's over. Joy and Pickle have lost all credibility in the church (if they ever had any) and your smear forum is down to this same little handful with nothing to discuss but Bob's whining. Thank God, 3abn continues to grow and expand to reach the world with the love of Jesus Christ.
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Tell ya what Sam,
I will not be watching 3abn and their hussy looking women. and to tell you the truth the more I see of Hope channel the more Catholism I see. Why are they running Catholic programming? Footsteps of Paul for one. and family reunion I just call the Gaither copycat. In fact Gaither are more modestly dressed. Carry on with all your contempory charasmatic movement, apeasing the public and crowd. It will fall when the end comes. Oh yes, the SDA is a joiner with all religions, that is the new trend.
Thank you for opening my eyes for sure. I do not see much "Hope" in all this and you cannot take away the wrong that has been done. Lets just see what happens in future. I cannot stand to see anymore of their financail corruption or would i ever contribute to any of it again. You should know where the pew money went above all as you state all. Somewhere there are people that still believe and live humble in the word. With their way how can you teach new people God's way?? Well you don't have to answer, I already know. I am glad I studied it for my self and do not have to rely on Babylon Showcases.
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People love to be on tv don't they? Butter them up. Put their pictures and miracle stories in the magazines. Flatter them. Let them join the crowds. Make them feel good. Bet not one in hundred knows about anything but the party line (the accepted self propaganda) they are told.
And don't rain on their parade or they will sue you.
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Childoftheking,
Amen to that. These people have never givin it a thought to read all and see all and conduct their selves in the manner of truth. Jut gimme the money!
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Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black? :ROFL:
I heard through the grapevine that DL's biggest funds provider stopped providing those funds, which resulted in the dropping of this lawsuit?
The problem is that I can't remember where I heard this.
Since you "heard it through the grapevine" is there a possibility you shouldn't be repeating it? Your "grapevine" has proven not to be reliable time and again. If I had a dime for everytime one of you have said "I heard" I would be rich.
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How about returning the original docs and keeping copies. Now that's common sense. I read nowhere that they cannot have copies(Which you probably have already) just return the ones they have. Would that now make them in compliance with the rlaws of discovery when a lawsuit is dropped? Then there is always my suggestion from before...stop running Danny in the ground for the mote in his eye..........need I complete this thought out loud........hmmmmmm? Then they would definitely have nothing to drag into court again, right? You can keep your opinions of him, how he lives his life, his business practices, you just don't have to put massive amounts of energ, time, and funds into putting ALL of his business on the internet........24/7.........just a thought.
Well Di,
In just simple common ordinary sense, (and just surmizing again) if Bob gave all documents of proof back and then DS turned around and sued with his option to do for revenge how would Bob prove his side?? with no documents??
Bob is up against begged for pew money and corruption with courts seeking the same with a filled pocket sucker the same ....as long as the money keeps coming in the lawyers spin their spin. Now just who is the devil here? It should have taken the people within the church to take this on....people to stand up against this -where are they as most I think will take your view. But in the courts of corruption is hardly a chance is my view but Bob and Gailon's view is to stand up to corruption with the knowledge they have to fight the cancer within. Don't you think in the broad picture that someting like this is the destroyer of the church by using mostly what is right and the one thing that is wrong bring the church down. Will anyone else stand to this?
Johann, I guess I'm not able to figure out real quick on how the church was afraid that maybe DS could sue them. Those inner working and connections if DS claims non denominational. How is it that they cannot disconnect from him? Maybe the media and bad publicity of the church?
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TINKA!!! I am shocked!!! LOL!!!!! I just always thought they all could use a good haristylist, but they would never hire me! LOL!! BTW, Tinka, you were doing really well with giving up the haterade...get back on the wagon now.......
"We fall down but we get up, We fall down, but we get up. We fall down, but we get up. For a saint is just a sinner who fell down....but then got up!" Everybody sing it with me! Here's the song if don't know the words.........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ_44erSURw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ_44erSURw)
OR Would we rather envision this magnificent site? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OuuaLn__98 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OuuaLn__98)
Tinka, we are running Catholic programming for the same reason we are running Focus on the Family Programming......they bought the time slot(s). Don't get me wrong I love me some Adventures in Odyssey, however, the irony is not lost.
Tell ya what Sam,
I will not be watching 3abn and their hussy looking women. and to tell you the truth the more I see of Hope channel the more Catholism I see. Why are they running Catholic programming? Footsteps of Paul for one. and family reunion I just call the Gaither copycat. In fact Gaither are more modestly dressed. Carry on with all your contempory charasmatic movement, apeasing the public and crowd. It will fall when the end comes. Oh yes, the SDA is a joiner with all religions, that is the new trend.
Thank you for opening my eyes for sure. I do not see much "Hope" in all this and you cannot take away the wrong that has been done. Lets just see what happens in future. I cannot stand to see anymore of their financail corruption or would i ever contribute to any of it again. You should know where the pew money went above all as you state all. Somewhere there are people that still believe and live humble in the word. With their way how can you teach new people God's way?? Well you don't have to answer, I already know. I am glad I studied it for my self and do not have to rely on Babylon Showcases.
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Plus, whatever went on in the trial, so far you are losing the battles and the war, what difference does it make?
I don't think we are losing the battles and the war.
Why would they pay your legal fees?
The Bible requires restitution as a condition for forgiveness.
You really want them to pay the legal fees on a suit that if you had your way would still be progressing in court. They would more than likely only be responsible for yourlegal fees if they loss. They didn't everyone pays their own legal fees.......and I thought most of the time you allwere representing yourselves?
It is inappropriate to steal someone's time, and not offer to compensate them for that.
How about returning the original docs and keeping copies. Now that's common sense. I read nowhere that they cannot have copies(Which you probably have already) just return the ones they have.
They don't want me to keep copies of anything, or notes, or any docs that would include information from the "confidential" materials. And why is that? Because it is incriminating stuff. The lawyers are liable, and they know it. So they want to get the evidence away from us.
Then there is always my suggestion from before...stop running Danny in the ground for the mote in his eye..........need I complete this thought out loud........hmmmmmm? Then they would definitely have nothing to drag into court again, right?
The 1st Amendment guarantees our freedoms of speech, religion, and press. Under what circumstances is it permissible to waive those rights? Would you waive those rights if the little horn of Daniel 7 sued you for tying it to Dan. 7? Would you promise never again to identify it as the little horn in exchange for not being sued again?
I do not consider covering up child molestation allegations, engaging in private inurement, and falsely accusing your wife of adultery to be a mote.
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Princessdi,
So they sold time slots for the money for SDA programming. Well now, isn't that special. Guess it doesn't make a difference anymore since they follow the piper.
I'm not sure a hairstylist is all they need but I am sure you could have done a better job on them.
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[Why are they running Catholic programming? Footsteps of Paul for one. ]
Hi--I'm confused. I Googled "Footsteps of Paul" and "Tony Moore" and it says he was/is Evangelism Ministries Director of It is Written. Where does the Catholic part come in? (Granted, I rarely watch it, but I wasn't sure to what the reference was being made.)
Thanks!!
Blessings,
maggie c.
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What another cover up.
Sometimes I watch the Catholic channel for sacred music and the Footsteps of Paul and the narrator is Catholic. Then all of a sudden I saw it on Hope channel.
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Dear Friend:
This attack against Linda breaks my heart and the hearts of the many friends that she has here in M.... I did not even know that someone can cancel someone else’s confirmed ticket. Do they not have to prove who and why? Sometimes Satan manages to find a way for these things to happen. I have told you that I do not personally know Linda but so many of us still misses her ‘porch step’ worship with us every morning at 8:00AM here in M....
Personally we do not watch many things that originate at 3ABN. But some good minister’s tapes can still be found and we as a family do listen and watch some of these. Even more now I sicken at the sight of DS—Johann, can it be true that the Lord can use evil people and turn their efforts into something to His glory? I am not only dumbfounded but confused as to the usefulness of 3ABN at all. I am 81 years old and my husband who is 87 had a stroke this year and we are pretty much housebound. How can we accept or explain the things done so wrongly to Linda after all these years?
Linda needs friends and those who know what a wonderful person she is. How can this happen? Who can explain it all? Where do we go to find the reasoning? Is 3ABN useful to God or not?
I followed Her website until there was nothing new. Will she write on it anymore? I hope that her daughter had a wonderful wedding. Greetings to Linda from all her friends. If there is something new that would be useful for all of us to know, please keep us informed and give Linda the love of her many friends.
The one thing that we are all interested in is how is Linda’s son doing??? God Bless us All., XXX
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powerful
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On November 4, 2009,Tinka said:
Re: Denied, denied, denied, denied, & denied.
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2009, 05:40:08 PM » Quote
________________________________________
Tell ya what Sam,
I will not be watching 3abn and their hussy looking women. and to tell you the truth the more I see of Hope channel the more Catholism I see. Why are they running Catholic programming? Footsteps of Paul for one. and family reunion I just call the Gaither copycat. In fact Gaither are more modestly dressed. Carry on with all your contempory charasmatic movement, apeasing the public and crowd. It will fall when the end comes. Oh yes, the SDA is a joiner with all religions, that is the new trend.
The Program "In the Footsteps of Paul" is produced by Tony Moore, formerly the Evangelism Director of "It is Written."
It is recommended by:
Mark Finley who said: "This series presents the living Christ in a highly attractive, compelling way. I highly recommend it."
William H. Shea, who said: "I strongly recommend this series to anyone who wants to know more about the life and work of the Apostle Paul."
N.C. Wilson, who said: "This is a powerful 21st century approach to presenting the wonderful Advent message."
You will note that all of the above are conservative SDAs. I hardly think that any of them can be said to promote the Roman Catholic system of belief and practice. The background of this series is clearly Seventh-day Adventist, not Roman Catholic.
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So your stating that the Catholic programming is using SDA material on their programming? I haven't watched it for so long now that I don't remember the name of the man that presents it and I do not think his name is Tony. also I am not sure of anything anymore coming from our leadership that is right in the middle of the 3abn mess. Guess I could put the programming in search and try to run it down that way. But that is not the only programming that SDA's are using that are on both programmings. I just know it is being used on both SDA and Catholic. So why are they selling time slots to the Catholics like PrincessDi states?
I appreciate your comments if that is the truth and will now try to see where it orginates too.
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Tinka said:
I haven't watched it for so long now that I don't remember the name of the man that presents it and I do not think his name is Tony. also I am not sure of anything anymore coming from our leadership that is right in the middle of the 3abn mess.
The "In the Footsteps of Paul" series is a set of 20 programs each of which run from 28 minutes and 30 econds in length to 36 minutes and 45 seconds in length. It is accompanied by a set of 20 Bible study guides, which tie the video to the Biblical record. In the Lesson One, "Note From the Author," Tony Moore states: "This series is dedicated to two men who shaped and inspired my sense of exploration and learning. To Pastor O. J. Mills, for encouraging me to have a love for a deeper study of Scripture. And to Dr. William Shea for opening doors to the incredible world of the past and guiding me in my understanding of it." NOTE: The copyright date for this series is 2004.
I assume that you will recognize the two people listed above as conservative SDAs.
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At the time the above sereis was produced, Moore was planning the following series:
Amazing Discoveries in Bibical Archeology
In the Footsteps of Jesus
The World of the Patriarchs
The Amazing World of the Apocalypse
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FYI:
The series: "In the Footsteps of Jesus" is in the final stages of production. It will run 28 individual episodes, each of about 30 minutes in length. It has cost $420,000 to produce and is expected to be released before the end of December. In producing this series, Moore spent five (5) months living in the areas where Jesus served and filming the series.
The series, "In the Footsteps of Paul" has been well recieved and has been broadcast on a number of television stations and networks. It is available for sale in an evangelism kit which can be used by churches and homes in small group settings for $259.00. Those who wish to use it in evangelism may purchase the study guides seperately from the DVDs.
NOTE: I personally own the DVDs and a copy of the study guides (The Paul series.) due to the fact that a friend gave me a set as a gift.
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Thanks, Gregory! :TY: I came to the same conclusion by researching the program a little further.
Maggie
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What I could gather in first searching is that a man by the name of Ken Duncan put all the pictures together to be produced in a book and by others that put the scripture to it. I still cannot understand why I saw it all on Etwn way before I saw it on 3abn. Now is that narrator that tells the story Tony? Because when we watched it this man was supposidly Catholic. Is Tony just a director of someone else's work.
Also what I am sorta getting is that this was produced by Catholics in the beginning to portray the similarity of the "In the footsteps of Paul" bring out the similiarty of pope Paul and show to be God on earth. Of course this is a bunch of stuff I just ran across finding who was the orginator. Some how I just don't understand that maybe this is not the same one. If it is the same one I am talking about the narrator is seen throughout the program and talks throughout also.
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I think Tony Moore at one point was the pastor at the Norwalk Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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Tinka, there are a variety of programs on TV that deal with Paul. You may have seen another one. The Adventist "Walking in the Footsteps of Paul" is completely Adventist in all ways. In spite of the rumours, Hope Channel is Adventist.
There are wild-eyed exstremist elements on both sides. There are those who feel that everything SDA should be thrown out, and there are those who think that the church should never advance past the turn of the 20th century in matters of style, food, drink, science, etc.
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George,
No that is not me as I realize that advancing in future we have to enter with all reasonable visibility to situations that are not in the past. we have to use reason in all things but we cannot give up guidlines that were presented to justify our own liberal inclinations of our own will and wants.
We were warned of all this change but God's rules and Bible examples never do. I just do not think that Mrs. White would have ever expected it to last this long but she saw that the SDA's would go along with the "change" even to finally do away with the Sabbath.
Guess I am going to have to take the time and go back and see if EWTN still runs what we watched on "In the footsteps of Paul". My husband said what we watched is directly Catholic also. If I get the narrators name that should solve the mix up. But we thought it was interesting but their theme is presenting also pope paul in similarities. Yet we watched the same program on Hope and could not figure out what was happening until Di claimed they sold time slots.
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O.K. Now maybe we are getting some resolution.
This is Ken Duncan:
Ken Duncan is well known internationally as Australia’s premier panoramic landscape photographer. Ever the trend-setter and still the market leader, Ken is deeply committed to researching and developing the latest and best technology to display his award winning Panographs in homes and offices right around the world. With every new release of Limited Edition Prints he delights long-time collectors and new fans alike with his own inimitable style of landscape photography.
Ken Duncan is a very religious man who publishes his photojournalism in books. [NOTE: While he may do such in video, I am not awarae of it.] In March of 2009, his latest book IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF PAUL came off of the press. An earlier book, WHERE JESUS WALKED was published in 2006. He has published other photo journalism books with a clear religious theme.
The video series that I reference was published in 2004. It is clearly Seventh-day Adventist.
I do not know if Duncan is Roman Catholic. I do not know if HOPE TV ran some of Duncan's photos. If some would object to a SDA media organization purblishing photos taken by a Roman Catholic, so be it. Each of us is entitled to our opinion.
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This is the best that I have been able to discover in regard to Ken Duncan's religioius beliefs:
Ken Duncan is a Christian fundamentalist and a creationist.[8] Through his photography he sees himself as an interpreter of God's creation,[9] and the vision statement of his company is "To show the beauty of God's creation."
This does not sound like a Roman Catholic to me.
But, again, if one wants to reject his work on the basis that he may not be SDA, so be it. Each is entitled to their own opinoin.
For the purpose of this discussion, let is say that Duncan is a devout Roman Catholic. [NOTE: I do not know that he is such.] If so, it appears that he has as a major purpose in his life to preseent God as the creator of the Earth. It appears that he has been gifted in his ability to reach people with this message in a powerful mannaer. Under such circumstances, why should SDAs refuse to use his work that promotes a Biblical view of God as the Creator of the Earth? So, what if he does not understand the State of the Dead, the Sanctuary and the Sabbth? Can we not accept the idea that the Holy Spirit may be using him to promote a Biblical view of God as creator? Can we no leave the rest to the Lord to lead Duncan in his spiritual journey? Do we have to criticize a person who may (?) be Roman Catholic and has stepped beyond the boundaries of his faith to proclaim what he beleives to be the Biblical truth in regard to creation?
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Gregory,
Really, really appreciate your search on this and added info. This helps alot to see the background in all this. Was not sure what we were watching and for what cause. No my husband and I both thought the photo's and all was good until we read elsewhere it was promoting the Bibical Paul with pope paul. They were trying to draw lines of similiarities that in symbolism could now be the pope's footsteps following the same. Just a screwed up version of using it on Etwn maybe. But then must have saw some version on 3abn that looked like same.
I still can only just watch some of Hope like just the preaching parts and the ones I know. I do get upset with the liberal change in music and dress and sloppyness of now SDA's and their sagas. Why is it that I do not relate to this laxiness as being christian? I don't know but that part I cannot seem to shake away.
I always was taught to do your best and think and dress the best you can as we are always in the presence of the Lord (as Christians) If we have moments of laxiness do it in your own room not on National and International tv. One thing for sure is Hope channel permits it and SDA's produce it.
Thank you again Gregory,
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Tinka:
I appreciate your comments.
We are now moving into an area where I do not want to get into an extended discussion--I will leave this for others. So, this is probably the last post that I will make on this area. Let me ask a coouple of questions for you to consider:
1) To what extent to we as a church take people into our membership who are on a spiritual journey and have not yet reached perfection?
2) In the public proclaimation of our message, to what extent do we present our members as they actually are as opposed to presenting them in a manner that they are not?
3) When we get into the issue of dress and adornment, to what extent are our standards determined by the Bible and of world-wide application as opposed to what extent are they determined locally in connection with our culture?
Coments:
1) I have lived in foreign countries. The standards of the SDA chruch, in regard to dress and adornment, appear to me to differ from country and to have a cultural element.
2) EGW clearly wore more jewelry during her life-time than most people are aware of. In one of the best known photos of her she was actually wearing a piece of jewelry. However, in the standard printing of that photo, the jewelry has been air-brushed out so she appears not to be wearing what she was wearing. Woule EGW meet the standards to belong to your church today due to the jewelry that she wore?
Well, it is unlikely that I will further respond to this thread.
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Gregory,
Really, really appreciate your search on this and added info. This helps alot to see the background in all this. Was not sure what we were watching and for what cause. No my husband and I both thought the photo's and all was good until we read elsewhere it was promoting the Bibical Paul with pope paul. They were trying to draw lines of similiarities that in symbolism could now be the pope's footsteps following the same. Just a screwed up version of using it on Etwn maybe. But then must have saw some version on 3abn that looked like same.
This is the same kind of assuming and jumping to false conclusions and then announcing it as fact ( You originally wrote: "to tell you the truth the more I see of Hope channel the more Catholism I see. Why are they running Catholic programming? Footsteps of Paul for one." and going into endless discussions about it that is done way too often here in everything 3abn, when it is really not all that difficult to find out the truth before speaking and making false statements.
I did a search of EWTN programming and found out the following.
There was a tour of Greece, Syria, Malta etc by Pope John Paul II called " In the footsteps of St Paul" EWTN did coverage and specials on it... http://www.ewtn.com/footsteps/coverage.htm Since then one of the religious pilgrimage tours EWTN promotes and has had specials on is called "Footsteps of Apostle Paul" . You may book one here:http://www.danthetravelman.com/ewtn-travel/ewtn-pilgrimage-april-2010.html (check out the sidebar)
Mystery solved?
Have a good one...
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I don't think we are losing the battles and the war.
The Bible requires restitution as a condition for forgiveness.
It is inappropriate to steal someone's time, and not offer to compensate them for that.
Ok, So Bob, I am right. you want the civil courts to uphold your religious beliefs, they are not bound to those beliefs. Not that I disagree with you on the principle, but you seem to be appealing to the wrong entity for enforcement. Inth ecivil courts, most of the time, you lose, yu pay your own, if not those who prevailed. If it is dropped, each pays their own and move on.
They don't want me to keep copies of anything, or notes, or any docs that would include information from the "confidential" materials. And why is that? Because it is incriminating stuff. The lawyers are liable, and they know it. So they want to get the evidence away from us.
Well, you might have had you just acquiesced(sp) instead of crying civil rights/free speech. You are fighting against the status quo. Lawsuit dropped, everyone gets their stuff back and go back to..."normal". Now, you can't be trusted to "do the right thing" so yes they keep the threat of court(and your dwindling resources) before you. Had you played by the rules, they may have thought you had copies(can't think of anyone who would not, especially when at some point the court records, including all docs become public. You all have been posting them here all along, right?), but they probably would not care. So I am thinking it is not having copies that is the problem here. Just like Danny himself more harm than good, when he initially refused to answer then reasonable questions from supporters, you have done the same by taking things way to far. Neither one of you is brimming over with credibility.
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In one of the best known photos of her she was actually wearing a piece of jewelry. However, in the standard printing of that photo, the jewelry has been air-brushed out so she appears not to be wearing what she was wearing.
Are you sure you aren't getting her mixed up with a relative?
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They don't want me to keep copies of anything, or notes, or any docs that would include information from the "confidential" materials. And why is that? Because it is incriminating stuff. The lawyers are liable, and they know it. So they want to get the evidence away from us.
Well, you might have had you just acquiesced(sp) instead of crying civil rights/free speech. You are fighting against the status quo. Lawsuit dropped, everyone gets their stuff back and go back to..."normal".
You may be missing the point. There is nothing at all in the confidentiality order that says we have to return a thing. So no, everyone does not get their stuff back, according to that order.
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Bobg PIckle said:
Are you sure you aren't getting her mixed up with a relative?
I do acknowledge that no DNA test was performed. I have to rely on the word of the White Estate that the woman in the photo was actually Ellen G. White. It was not a twin sister, cousin or friend that lived down the street.
What does this all mean? Mainly that people have sometimes taken EGW to take a posiiton that she did not take. In this case, while EGW clearly spoke out against jewelry she appears not to have taken the agbsolute posistion that some people believe she took. Aftrer all, she lived what she believed.
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Bob said:
Are you sure you aren't getting her mixed up with a relative?
An e-mail message from the EGW Estate has suggested that I have mixed a photo of a relative in which jewelry was air-brushed out of the published photo.
At the moment I cannot document my statement that this happened to EGW. So, in the interest of accuracy I wish to add this comment and to say that I may have been wrong in my statement. If I have further information that sheds light on this I will post it.
I do not claim to be without error in the statements that I make. When I have reason to beleive that I may have been wrong I will post additional comments.
Gregory Matthews
Here is the part of the EGW Estate message that is most specific:
I suspect that this story got going because in a family picture her granddaughter wore some kind of beaded or shell necklace, which may have been a lei from one of the Pacific islands they stopped at on their way home from Australia. When this was considered for publication, sometime in the 1930s I think, and possibly in the Review, someone made an editorial decision to remove the necklace, most likely to avoid controversy. The airbrushed picture has seen publication in several places since, including the sixth volume of Arthur White's six-volume biography of Mrs. White. I believe Elder White was unaware of the alteration. In fact, another family picture in the previous volume has such a necklace on Ella. So Elder White does not seem to have been trying to hide anything. How this story about airbrushing got transferred to Mrs. White is not clear, unless it is wishful thinking on the part of some!
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Quite an interesting statement.
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Di,
I believe you are in the wrong profession, You would make a good defence for the guilty. Yep, a good defence attorney. (smile) but ya have to get the facts straight first...... Bob knows what he is doing while trying to answer all that has already been hashed. Bob and Gailon know and so do I how the system works. I am sure on here there are other lawyers to confirm but then they must like it or they would not stay in it. It is difficult to understand but very enlightening when you have been on the blunt end. I feel in my heart that at least somebody tried. They were not Pilate! You do realize none of this will go away ever. It is history made in the lives of the guilty and no way out except for public repentance since of course all this is in public eye with public funds. Bob and Gailon cannot be held guilty in any of this as the story unfolded within the Shelton Gates. Bob and Gailon were the ones alerted to this mess plus some of the public that still feed the :horse:
Joshua and Caleb came back to conquer. The rest well........be conquered!!!
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Gregory,
I was talking about the picture of Ella to a lady, and the lady reacted quite strongly, adamantly insisting that her grandmother, Ella, did not wear jewelry. I recall her telling me that Ella spent her last days at Eden Valley.
Just an interesting tidbit.
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Bob:
A couple of comments:
Eden Valley: I was told Sabbath that Eden Valley closed a few days ago. I do not know if this is accurate. A number of people told me that they were very sorry to see it happen. Do you know anything about this?
Airbrushed photo:
My obligation for truth is to follow the evidence. I trust the EGW Estate in regard the facts although I sometimes differ with them in regard to the intrepretation of the facts. On that basis I felt that I had to post their reply to me as those facts appear to show that I was wrong in regard to the photo being EGW.
I have been contacted by those who say that they have seen a photo of EGW that was airbrushed for publication.
My memory is also of seeing a photo.
I am searching sources to see if I can locate that photo. My first search has proved me to be wrong. That source did not reveal such a photo of EGW. I am now looking elsewhere. I will let you-all know if I find anything.
So, for now, based upon the evidence, I was wrong.
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I can't believe you are all having this much discussion about some jewelry on a picture of a person or persons now deceased, and you don't even know when the picture was taken, i.e. before or after conversion to Adventism..............come on now!
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It is obvious Di, to discredit on anything they can find to make all nonsence of EGW and get on with all the internet discredit of her too. They got to take is slow and easy on here would'nt you say. You know to see how far they can go with it. She will be discredited soon enough. She told us that would happen. Maybe they all ought to start eating porky since it took her 40 years until the health message part came along. That ought to give them some more justification on the health message.
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Bob:
A couple of comments:
Eden Valley: I was told Sabbath that Eden Valley closed a few days ago. I do not know if this is accurate. A number of people told me that they were very sorry to see it happen. Do you know anything about this?
Airbrushed photo:
My obligation for truth is to follow the evidence. I trust the EGW Estate in regard the facts although I sometimes differ with them in regard to the intrepretation of the facts. On that basis I felt that I had to post their reply to me as those facts appear to show that I was wrong in regard to the photo being EGW.
I have been contacted by those who say that they have seen a photo of EGW that was airbrushed for publication.
My memory is also of seeing a photo.
I am searching sources to see if I can locate that photo. My first search has proved me to be wrong. That source did not reveal such a photo of EGW. I am now looking elsewhere. I will let you-all know if I find anything.
So, for now, based upon the evidence, I was wrong.
1. I am fairly certain that the info about Eden Valley must be wrong. Someone quite familiar with Eden valley would have told me recently when we had contact, if that were the case. Also, a friend after reading your question contacted someone pretty knowledgeable who also didn't know anything about it.
2. Sydney Cleveland's book makes a big to do about an airbrushed picture of Ella, and in connection with that also made a big to do about Ellen White wearing a pocket watch on a gold chain. However, the gold chain was really a chain made of human hair, from what the White Estate can tell.
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God's truth needs no defending, neither does EGW. Folks who will believe her, will believe her, those who don't want to will always find a reason not to. Jewelry or "All you can eat shrimp night" at Red Lobster, only means like everyone else in working out her own savlation, and sanctification was a day by day journey for her also. Doesn't make her any less inspired or vessel of God.
It is obvious Di, to discredit on anything they can find to make all nonsence of EGW and get on with all the internet discredit of her too. They got to take is slow and easy on here would'nt you say. You know to see how far they can go with it. She will be discredited soon enough. She told us that would happen. Maybe they all ought to start eating porky since it took her 40 years until the health message part came along. That ought to give them some more justification on the health message.
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Bob:
A couple of comments:
Eden Valley: I was told Sabbath that Eden Valley closed a few days ago. I do not know if this is accurate. A number of people told me that they were very sorry to see it happen. Do you know anything about this?
Airbrushed photo:
My obligation for truth is to follow the evidence. I trust the EGW Estate in regard the facts although I sometimes differ with them in regard to the intrepretation of the facts. On that basis I felt that I had to post their reply to me as those facts appear to show that I was wrong in regard to the photo being EGW.
I have been contacted by those who say that they have seen a photo of EGW that was airbrushed for publication.
My memory is also of seeing a photo.
I am searching sources to see if I can locate that photo. My first search has proved me to be wrong. That source did not reveal such a photo of EGW. I am now looking elsewhere. I will let you-all know if I find anything.
So, for now, based upon the evidence, I was wrong.
1. I am fairly certain that the info about Eden Valley must be wrong. Someone quite familiar with Eden valley would have told me recently when we had contact, if that were the case. Also, a friend after reading your question contacted someone pretty knowledgeable who also didn't know anything about it.
2. Sydney Cleveland's book makes a big to do about an airbrushed picture of Ella, and in connection with that also made a big to do about Ellen White wearing a pocket watch on a gold chain. However, the gold chain was really a chain made of human hair, from what the White Estate can tell.
Gregory, someone sent me an email telling me that the assisted living program is shut down temporarily, but the lifestyle center is going well.
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That may be it.
Thanks for clairfying.
GM
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Nobody owes you any kind of an explanation. The judge was clear and concise (you might learn something from that). The judge clearly understood your motions, clearly understood the law, and deftly and clearly applied it to the case (again, an opportunity for you to learn something). You can continue to play your games, continue to whine, continue to libel the judges and lawyers - but the courts have obviously grown weary of your shenanigans and have decided to hold you to the standard expected. The judge was clear -
No more trying to litigate the case with frivolous motions. No more whining about having to abide by the law and the rules of procedure. When the judge uses language such as, "Defendants make no argument, and present no evidence, that was not either raised previously or should have been raised previously." He has taken the time to consider your claims, consider the law, and render his judgment. Your disrespect and libelous claims about the judges/attorneys speaks to your lack of character. Then there is the footnote that clearly lets you know that you haven't even gotten the law right, "1 Defendants also sought relief under Fed. R. Civ. P. 52(b), which is clearly inapplicable here."
He goes on to point out your failure to effectively make a claim, "[ ] plaintiffs have not demonstrated that the information is newly discovered and could not reasonably have been submitted with the original motion." Your argument did not withstand judicial consideration. A man who has spent his life working with the law has determined that you swung and missed - lesson to be learned. Should people believe your belly-aching or a judge who knows the law? The reasonable individual will accept the judge's order as being a fair and just representation of the law.
The judge also sent you a clear message. You have claimed that he never read your filings previously, something you have NO (none, nada, nilch) evidence to support . . . and Judge Saylor says, "The Court has carefully reviewed defendants’ submissions." You need take note of this because it is clearly connected to your earlier libelous claims. He then goes on to educate you in the American process of jurisprudence - zealous advocacy. That is what this nations system is all about - advocacy. That is what attorneys, or pro-se defendants, do, they advocate, zealously. That doesn't mean it is illegal, doesn't mean it is lying, misrepresenting, misappropriating, or misleading. Attorney Simpson has lead a restrained approach to dealing with you and need be commended for his stellar, honest, and genuine work.
You have attempted to try your "case" in the courts and in the court of public opinion and you have lost on all fronts. 3ABN continues to be an instrument of God reaching the world. Weekly new converts are baptized across the world with words of gratitude on their lips for being introduced to the love of the Savior via 3ABN. It is safe to say that not a one has stood in the batisimal font and claimed that they were lead to the foot of the Savior's cross of by Robert Pickle or Gailon Joy. You will have to live with that the rest of your life, when called, and you ask, "When did I miss an opportunity to serve you Lord?" He will answer, "All the while you fought against Me. All the while you attacked My people. All the while you focused on your own fame and fortune at the expense of reaching the hurting souls."
anyman
Well, there you have it...judges never err and lawyers never file frivolous claims!!! I guess we might just as well pack up our bags and go home as "ANYMAN" has spoken!!! Just a matter of time before he advances to the bench himself...GOD FORBID!!!.
For the record, ANYMAN, the record in the Judges' own oral testimony admitted he had not read the Defendant's brief and did not even know it existed when he ruled. He saw an opportunity to clear the docket and took it...and did so with a number of inconsistent decisions...but then, that is why they have appellate courts, right, ANYMAN???
I think I will still take my chances on the 1st Circuit Court of Appeals...and then a jury of my peers.
As to 3ABN's role in Televangelism...let it be clear that 3ABN will do just fine without hypocrits...in fact, most logically considerably better!!!
How about that Marriage Seminar conducted by an adulterer??? Just what the Lord called for as he created 3ABN to Counter-act the counterfeit!!! I still maintian that as long as this administraton reigns, it is THE COUNTERFEIT, and we need to look for the REAL THING!!! Maybe, there is HOPE???
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter