Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: judibug61 on December 21, 2009, 04:10:00 PM
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I got an email this evening from Mollie Steenson, Vice-President/General Manager of 3abn, about an upcoming special Christmas Eve at 8PM ....It is a Documentary and they will walk us through their founder Danny Sheltons life from childhood and share the miracles of how 3abn began and how it continues to follow God's beckoning call.....it said we would hear from those who where there from the beginning......etc......Did anyone else get this email???? just curious.......
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yes, I received it today. :'( :(
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ok...Thank you....
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Zofran
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Unbelievable!
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Received it also. Just wondering if Linda will be on this documentary? She was there from the beginning.
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In this type of program glory is given to certain persons that belongs to God. It is claimed that God is glorified but instead these programs develop a cult like following for the persons featured.
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I wonder also, if Linda will be given any credit for the founding of......I just don't know how they can do a documentary of the beginnings, of Danny's childhood and then how he came to fullfill his dream without Linda.....I will probably watch just to see.........I really think Linda should be given due credit for her part.........although at this point, Linda has a rewarding life as she donates her time to the Lord..................I guess I just wonder how they will do this, and leave her out, since she was there at the development of 3abn.......I agree childoftheking.....to much focus on individual and not on reason for program....I guess I thought the focus on Danny Shelton would be alittle less as the new year comes on, but I guess they have to keep him out there in the publics tv eye..................
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Zofran
Zofran
SIDE EFFECTS: Diarrhea or constipation, headache, lightheadedness or drowsiness (uncommon), as well as blurred vision may occur.
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That should be interesting.....to say the least. So can somebody report back. I adont' have 3ABN.....Thank God!.........and I am busy with a traditional family gathering on Christmas Eve.......Thank God!...........LOL!!!
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Zofran
Zofran
SIDE EFFECTS: Diarrhea or constipation, headache, lightheadedness or drowsiness (uncommon), as well as blurred vision may occur.
It also helps to prevent nausea.
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I need a large dose!!
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I'm just not understanding why they keep putting Danny Shelton up front in the spotlight....what are they trying to say....especially with this next saga in his marital life.....they just keep putting him right out front, and I just can't understand why.....why he isn't becoming less noticeable.....but they have their reason I guess.....I'm just confused as to why....
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Maybe they will have Brandy on and deny that the marriage has ended. They could keep a sham marriage in effect as at least one other televangelist was said to have done.
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I'm just not understanding why they keep putting Danny Shelton up front in the spotlight....what are they trying to say....especially with this next saga in his marital life.....they just keep putting him right out front, and I just can't understand why.....why he isn't becoming less noticeable.....but they have their reason I guess.....I'm just confused as to why....
Maybe they're trying to brainwash you into thinking it will just be fine and dandy for Danny to take over the helm again once Gilley retires.
I think Mollie Steenson has some big explaining to do. Three years ago she was part of a conspiracy to pay tribute to pedophile Tommy Shelton on New Year's Eve, and now, three years later, she is part of a conspiracy to pay tribute to corrupt Danny Shelton on New Year's Eve.
Any responsible board would demand that Mollie Steenson immediately explain her actions.
I see that in this thread it says the program is for Christmas Eve. Which is it? Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve?
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Its on New Year's Eve.....they say they have been working for months on a brand new version of " Mending Broken People: The 3abn Miracle Story" December 31st being the premier....NEW YEAR'S EVE.... 8-10 PM Central time......
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Can't wait...waiting with bated breathe and a recorder to document the New Revised King Danny's Version!!! Are they preparing his lordship for the inevitable succession? Are they trying to rebuild the image of a tarnished prince? Or is it a fund-raising effort aka begathon!!!
Who knows, maybe they will offer Linda Shelton a part if she simply dis-associates herself from "they who troubleth israel"...yup, moi (and the other guy)!!!
In any event that new fangled digital recording devise is all geared up and set to record, regardless of where I be or what I do...for my "expert" analysis at some future moment in time, and who knows, just maybe as evidence on the record (you know, the one that got closed, I think??).
Ya, know, this is just simply the case that just won't go away!!! Did you see the response to their objection to our request for the return to the court of those bank records taken by 3ABN's version of "imminent domain by expropriation"? Just another wonder of Pickle Publishing!!!
Wonder if they make any reference to their fine litigation experience during the 25 years review???? They would have to end it with a quote from an old comedian "Ollie, what a fine mess you got us into!!!"
Merry Christmas and we look forward to a terrific and another FUN new year...three cheers to 2010...and the First Circuit Court of Appeals!!! Oh, yeah..can't forget the Administrative Judge, a couple of Bar associations and...well...the list could get quite lengthy...three cheers is enough for one new year!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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The Emperor's New Cloths.
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I got an email this evening from Mollie Steenson, Vice-President/General Manager of 3abn, about an upcoming special Christmas Eve at 8PM ....It is a Documentary and they will walk us through their founder Danny Sheltons life from childhood and share the miracles of how 3abn began and how it continues to follow God's beckoning call.....it said we would hear from those who where there from the beginning......etc......Did anyone else get this email???? just curious.......
Unbelievable!
How is it that so many here believe Linda's story should be included, but on the other hand find it unbelievable that Danny's story would be included as part of 3abn's history and one of the many stories told in the year long celebration of 3abn's first 25 years?
That is just weird.
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Received it also. Just wondering if Linda will be on this documentary? She was there from the beginning.
She already is being mentioned and included in the history ( one example quoted here: http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php/topic,1742.msg21917.html#msg21917 ) but I consider it very unlikely she will be in the documentary herself. Most Networks (not just 3abn) are not in the habit of featuring board members or officers that they removed, or employees that they have fired, in their current programming. Nor do most networks or ministries interview them and making them a guest star in any documentaries they make as far as I know. It would be even more unusual if 3abn asked her to participate, and included her, considering their stance and understanding about the stink and problems which they have had to deal with due to the public campaign to smear them that her friends engaged in leading up to Pickle and Joy's involvement and the lawsuit.
3d
edit- to clarify a point "or officers" - as no replies have been posted yet.
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Can't wait...waiting with bated breathe and a recorder to document the New Revised King Danny's Version!!! ...Who knows, maybe they will offer Linda Shelton a part...
I Have no idea what Linda Shelton says in private to her friends and supporters about her "part", but I do know what she has said publicly about it, so it seems those two things must be different to me. I am including a quote from her here ( the only one I am aware of)for the curious, and her fans and defenders. The following is from a letter she wrote to her supporters and published on her website after she and Danny were divorced. It is dated: August 18, 2004. All of the bold text in the quotes was added by me.
...My story begins many years ago when I was only 24 years old. I was married with two small babies, Alyssa and Nathan. A literature evangelist came to my door, and after a pleasant visit she invited me to church. Three months later I was baptized as a Seventh-day Adventist Christian. These truths set me free to the highest degree and I was spiritually floating on "cloud nine." Yet Satan was angry. My family, at the time, had a twisted view of the SDA church, and additionally the family was heavily involved in politics. My choice was not, in their opinion, politically correct.The pressure on my husband and marriage resulted in a divorce. I was devastated. I lost my husband, my home and my security. I ended up living in a public housing facility which was completely contrary to the lifestyle in which I had been raised. Although this was an incredible blow, the lessons I learned during this time were priceless. I learned about what was really of the utmost importance in life. Still yet, it was a Gethsemane experience.
Time passed. Ten days after his vision to build 3ABN, Dan and I were married. It was an amazing experience to literally watch the hand of God build this network. It was an incredible privilege to be able to participate in a ministry that was ordained in the courts of heaven. But the battles still came...the evil one was angry with such an incredible evangelistic tool. One battle which literally brought me and kept me on my knees, occurred in 1995. After enjoying the custody of both of my children for many years, my children's father took me to court when my son, Nathan, was only 15 years old. Nathan was quite enamored with the newly acquired attentiveness he was getting from his father, so he wanted to live with him...
There has been alot of talk from Linda's supporters and 3abn's critics and accusers about the 3abn history being revised and changed since she and Danny were divorced. I have always wondered where they got that idea, or from who if other than her.
Anyway, here is the current history from 3abn's website and "about us page as of today:
http://www.3abn.org/about_3abn.cfm
About 3ABN
Three Angels Broadcasting Network (3ABN) is the "Mending Broken People Network," a 24-hour Christian television and radio network. 3ABN’s focus is to present programming which will reach people right where they are hurting. 3ABN offers divorce recovery programs, drug and alcohol rehabilitation, cooking and health programs, stop smoking and weight loss, programs that deal with children and family issues, organic gardening, natural home remedies, gospel music programs, as well as a variety of inspirational themes from the Bible for children and adults.
Today, surrounded by the rolling farmland of Southern Illinois, 3ABN beams its television and radio programming to eight satellites which carry it to every inhabited continent. 3ABN is the second largest Christian network in North America (in regard to numbers of owned and operated UHF stations). 3ABN's "down-home" approach and the absence of large fundraising efforts or telethons holds a special appeal for its viewers.
3ABN is not owned, operated or funded by any church, denomination or organization, so people from all cultures and backgrounds appreciate 3ABN programming. Many of 3ABN's employees and volunteers are members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
View the "Joint Declaration of Commitment" document between the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventist and Three Angels Broadcasting Network.
The History of 3ABN
Three Angels Broadcasting Network began in the early morning hours of November 15, 1984, when Danny Shelton, a carpenter from Southern Illinois, was kept awake by troubling thoughts. Shelton recalled the Christian television stations where he and his daughter Melody had sung gospel music. He was concerned at the way in which God was misrepresented at times on those stations. He longed to find a way to express God's love to the world, and was then impressed to build a television station that would reach the world with the gospel.
Although he had no degree in communications and no experience in television, immediately he began to explore the ideas that finally developed into 3ABN.
Later he visited a friend, a pastor who had some television equipment. Shelton told him about what he had been impressed to do. To Shelton's amazement, his friend told him he had recently been asked to sell his television equipment, but then had been strongly impressed to keep it until God further directed him. He told Shelton that he felt God would show him the time and place to give away the equipment. As they spoke on the phone later, the pastor volunteered to donate the equipment to Shelton.
Many things happened in the next few months. As Shelton began to speak in area churches others began to catch his vision. One person donated two acres of land in Thompsonville, Illinois, on which to build the station. When a microwave interference study was conducted on the property, an amazed technician remarked, "Mr. Shelton, you must be the luckiest man I know. On those two acres you have a clean sweep of every satellite in the horizon without microwave interference.... This is probably one of the only sites left in all of Southern Illinois."
A visit to the local Christian television station a few days later brought about another conversation, this time with Clarence Larson, the station engineer. After introducing himself to Shelton, he pulled him aside, and said "I don't know why I'm telling you this, but I believe a satellite uplink station could be built here in Southern Illinois, in the Thompsonville area." Interestingly, Larson volunteered this information with no knowledge of Shelton's dream.
As progress on the project continued, Shelton discovered three-phase power would be required to operate the station. Larson indicated that the cost to run lines from the nearest main road was prohibitive. But upon investigation he discovered three-phase power lines a few hundred feet (about a hundred meters) away from the property, simply following a country road. When Shelton contacted the power company, he asked why those lines ran through open fields away from any factories or heavy machinery. The power company responded, "We honestly have no idea."
As Shelton moved forward, doors continued to open. A satellite uplink dish manufacturer agreed to begin building a $300,000 satellite dish with only $10,000 down payment. Over the next few months the studio and office facilities were built and furnished, and equipment was purchased and installed without incurring any debt. Amazingly, on November 23, 1986, just over two years after Shelton had the initial idea for the station, Three Angels Broadcasting Network went on satellite.
Today, 3ABN has grown steadily and has completed a second production center with 20,000 square feet (1,860 square meters) of floor space, which includes two large productions studios, control rooms, and additional office space. One studio features a professionally designed and versatile set used for "3ABN Presents," while the other features multiple set capability.
3ABN Worldwide
Three Angels Broadcasting Network began work in Russia in 1992 when 3ABN, in cooperation with Australian evangelist John Carter, conducted a series of meeting in Nizhny Novgorod. This city, formerly named Gorky, is the third largest in Russia and for many years has been closed to the gospel. Response to the meetings resulted in many conversions.
Following the meetings, the local church officials realized that the 2,500 people baptized into the Christian faith needed a place to worship. Three Angels Broadcasting Network purchased an unfinished building with over 70,000 square feet (6,500 square meters) of space to develop into an evangelism center to help meet this need. Today, the 3ABN Russian Evangelism Center includes a church, a large auditorium, television studios, offices, and a literature distribution center.
In 1993 3ABN began to produce a Russian language program airing seven days a week on a commercial television station in Nizhny Novgorod. The program, called "Face to Face," is considered one of the best-produced programs on that station. An offer of free Russian Bibles to all those requesting them brought an overwhelming response of 1,000 - 2,000 requests per week!
In the years 1999-2000, 3ABN began expanding its satellite coverage to include more of Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. Additionally, 3ABN Radio was launched, opening another vast field of potential viewers...[/b]
And I thought it would be helpful to look up and post the version they published and told before their divorce, or even from the beginning. So here that is so all the concerned and curious can compare the version told when Linda was there, and the version told after she was gone, and so that all who take the time to watch the upcoming program can compare it to both.
This is the earliest version of 3abn's history, from the first "about us" page published just 2 mos after 3abn launched their website. From the Internet Archives, Nov 1998:
http://web.archive.org/web/19981111185131/http://3abn.org/
Three Angels Broadcasting Network is a 24 hour Christian Television Network with a mission to reach the world with the gospel. 3ABN began in 1984 when Danny Shelton was impressed to build a television station that would reach the world. Today, unexpectedly surrounded by the rolling farmland of Southern Illinois, 3ABN beams its signal across North and Central America as well as Europe and North Africa.
Three Angels Broadcasting Network airs programs with a down-to-earth approach. Its blend of spiritual teaching, health and family oriented programming offers a wide variety of choices. Programming focuses on topics that meet specific viewer needs, such as stop smoking clinics and drug and alcohol recovery programs. Thousands of viewers take advantage of its toll-free prayer and pastoral counseling line each month.
3ABN's absence of large fund-raising efforts or telethons holds a special appeal for its viewers. 3ABN is an independent, nonprofit, supporting ministry of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
3ABN HISTORY
Three Angels Broadcasting Network began in the early morning hours of November 15, 1984, when Danny Shelton, a carpenter from Southern Illinois, was kept awake by troubling thoughts. Shelton recalled the Christian television stations where he and his daughter Melody had sung gospel music. He was concerned at the way in which God was misrepresented at times on those stations. He longed to find a way to express God's love to the world, and was then impressed to build a television station that would reach the world with the gospel.
Although he had no degree in communications and no experience in television, immediately he began to explore the ideas that finally developed into 3ABN.
Later, he visited a friend, a pastor who had some television equipment. Shelton told him about what he had been impressed to do. To his amazement, his friend told him he had recently been asked to sell his television equipment, but then had been strongly impressed to keep it until God further directed him. He told Shelton that he felt God would show him the time and place to give away the equipment. As they spoke on the phone later, the pastor volunteered to donate the equipment to Shelton.
Many things happened in the next few months. As Shelton began to speak in area churches others began to catch his vision. One person donated two acres of land in Thompsonville, Illinois, on which to build the station. When a microwave interference study was conducted on the property, an amazed technician remarked, "Mr. Shelton, you must be the luckiest man I know. On those two acres you have a clean sweep of every satellite in the horizon without microwave interference.... This is probably one of the only sites left in all of Southern Illinois."
A visit to the local Christian television station a few days later brought about another conversation, this time with Clarence Larson, the station engineer. After introducing himself to Shelton, he pulled him aside, and said: "I don't know why I'm telling you this, but I believe a satellite uplink station could be built here in Southern Illinois, in the Thompsonville area." Interestingly, Larson volunteered this information with no knowledge of Shelton's dream.
As progress on the project continued, Shelton discovered three-phase power would be required to operate the station. Larson indicated that the cost to run lines from the nearest main road was prohibitive. But upon investigation he discovered three-phase power lines a few hundred feet away from the property, simply following a country road. When Shelton contacted the power company, he asked why those lines ran through open fields away from any factories or heavy machinery. The power company responded, "We honestly have no idea."
As Shelton moved forward, doors continued to open. A satellite uplink dish manufacturer agreed to begin building a $300,000 satellite dish with only $10,000 down payment. Over the next few months the studio and office facilities were built and furnished, and equipment was purchased and installed without incurring any debt. Amazingly, on November 23, 1986, just over two years after Shelton had the initial idea for the station, Three Angels Broadcasting Network went on satellite.
Today, 3ABN has grown steadily and has completed a second production center with 20,000 square feet of floor space, which includes two large productions studios, control rooms and additional office space. One studio includes an audience viewing area, while the other features multiple set capability.
3ABN WORLDWIDE
Three Angels Broadcasting Network began work in Russia in 1992 when 3ABN, in cooperation with Australian evangelist John Carter, conducted a series of meeting in Nizhny Novgorod. This city is the third largest in Russia and for many years has been closed to the gospel. Response to the meetings resulted in many conversions.
Following the meetings, the local church officials realized that the 2,500 people baptized into the Christian faith needed a place to worship. Three Angels Broadcasting Network purchased an unfinished building with over 70,000 square feet of space to develop into an evangelism center to help meet this need. Today, the 3ABN Russian Evangelism Center includes a church, a large auditorium, television studios, offices and a literature distribution center.
In 1993 3ABN began to produce a Russian language program airing 7 days a week on a commercial television station in the city of Gorky, now renamed Nizhny Novgorod, Russia.
The program, called "Face to Face" is considered one of the best produced programs on that station. An offer of free Russian Bibles to all those requesting them brought an overwhelming response of 1,000 - 2,000 requests per week!...
Happy New Year, all
3d
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3D - What does that prove about the story from 1998 to now but that someone can cut and paste?
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Shortly after I came to 3ABN I wrote an article about the venture for a European magazine. At that time a book about 3ABN was getting ready for publication, and I was given access to the manuscripts of several chapters of that book. I was amazed to read there about the involvement of Linda right from the beginning. It is true that her first task was writing thank-you letters to contributors, but that was just the beginning. People I interviewed in connection with my article who had known both Danny and Linda from the very beginning, told me Danny would never have managed that task without Linda.
What really disturbed me shortly after that were the false stories that were circulated about Linda to justify her dismissal and wipe out her history. No wonder it is completely lost to "3ABN Defender", so it does not surprise that mentioning her now seems inappropriate to those who have been circulating falsehood ever since.
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. No wonder it is completely lost to "3ABN Defender"
Johann, sometimes when folks are in defensive mode they don't hear what is said because they are too busy defending their POV, and attacking the other person. I think that is the case here. May I suggest you read what I wrote again? Every job no matter how big or little when it is done in love and in the cause and promotion of Jesus' ministry is necessary and invaluable. Linda's was also.
Linda's history is neither forgotten or unmentioned at 3abn or by 3abn, even today, thus it is NOT lost to me, as I learned it there, and from them. For those who don't know, she went on from the thank you notes to also write for the newsletter, and also became 3abn's secretary for many years.
She along with all the others received no pay for quite awhile, Danny and his brother Kenny for example put in long hrs of physical labor after already working their full time jobs to support their families while the ministry was built. Danny's family of course being she, her 2 kids, Nathan and Alyssa, and his daughter Melody, and he went everywhere he could in the little time he had left promoting the ministry and leaving her to hold down the home front which was not easy for either, as they were still newlyweds. When she and they finally began to draw a salary from 3abn it was just 6.00 an hr.
She also, along with Danny went on to become the co host of 3avb's flagship program, "3ABN Presents" which aired daily along with the 2 hr live program done weekly, and later became 3abn 's Vice president and was in charge of programming and staff, as well as serving on the 3abn board in her position of both secretary and vice President.
That is all appreciated, remembered and recorded, Johann. Along with the videos she used donated funds to make of herself, the airbrushed photos and the botox treatments, and the music she recorded and has the rights to sell today.
She has a more recent history also, and it isn't all about she and her Doctor, and it prevents her from being on 3abn, and that was my point. It is unrealistic for this group here to expect that, or to think or expect that 3abn and it's board who are apprised and aware of all the history would reinstate or promote her, or remove Danny and not feature him and bow down to their wishes simply because a little group of accusers here who is not aware of all, and disagrees with them, doesn't know all the history, or get it.
She was and still is loved, regardless. It will all be known eventually, if not here, then in heaven. Thank God.
Peace.
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. No wonder it is completely lost to "3ABN Defender"
Johann, sometimes when folks are in defensive mode they don't hear what is said because they are too busy defending their POV, and attacking the other person. I think that is the case here.
Agreed. And this could just as well apply to what you and 3ABN is and has been saying.
May I suggest you read what I wrote again? Every job no matter how big or little when it is done in love and in the cause and promotion of Jesus' ministry is necessary and invaluable. Linda's was also.
I have done that. May I suggest that you talk to Linda to get her side of the story as well as listening to her adversaries. Who can be honest without listening to both sides? That is why I had intensive communications with Danny Shelton.
Linda's history is neither forgotten or unmentioned at 3abn or by 3abn, even today, thus it is NOT lost to me, as I learned it there, and from them. For those who don't know, she went on from the thank you notes to also write for the newsletter, and also became 3abn's secretary for many years.
That is just the point - you have learned her history from them, those who got themselves into real trouble because of the blunders they made, and have ever since tried to make stories to divert the attention away from the real issue. Trying to cream it all with religious saintly verbiage, and whatever has come to mind, again to divert the attention away from their own blunders.
I think Linda feels you are very unfair in your evaluation, as it is based on biased reports.
She along with all the others received no pay for quite awhile, Danny and his brother Kenny for example put in long hrs of physical labor after already working their full time jobs to support their families while the ministry was built. Danny's family of course being she, her 2 kids, Nathan and Alyssa, and his daughter Melody, and he went everywhere he could in the little time he had left promoting the ministry and leaving her to hold down the home front which was not easy for either, as they were still newlyweds. When she and they finally began to draw a salary from 3abn it was just 6.00 an hr.
Your report is not quite accurate, because Danny was not only promoting the ministry in the little time he had left. I think Linda knows, because she went with him wherever he went from the beginning, and I think she was right up front from the beginning.
She also, along with Danny went on to become the co host of 3avb's flagship program, "3ABN Presents" which aired daily along with the 2 hr live program done weekly, and later became 3abn 's Vice president and was in charge of programming and staff, as well as serving on the 3abn board in her position of both secretary and vice President.
That is all appreciated, remembered and recorded, Johann. Along with the videos she used donated funds to make of herself, the airbrushed photos and the botox treatments, and the music she recorded and has the rights to sell today.
This reporting also sounds as if you do not know first hand what was taking place.
She has a more recent history also, and it isn't all about she and her Doctor, and it prevents her from being on 3abn, and that was my point. It is unrealistic for this group here to expect that, or to think or expect that 3abn and it's board who are apprised and aware of all the history would reinstate or promote her, or remove Danny and not feature him and bow down to their wishes simply because a little group of accusers here who is not aware of all, and disagrees with them, doesn't know all the history, or get it.
What story do you know?
She was and still is loved, regardless. It will all be known eventually, if not here, then in heaven. Thank God.
Peace.
Are you really honest? I wish you were.
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It is unrealistic for this group here to expect that, or to think or expect that 3abn and it's board who are apprised and aware of all the history would reinstate or promote her, or remove Danny and not feature him and bow down to their wishes simply because a little group of accusers here who is not aware of all, and disagrees with them, doesn't know all the history, or get it.
If the board can sit back and irresponsibly allow folks at 3ABN to pay homage to Danny Shelton on that broadcast, despite the fact that Danny covered up the child molestation allegations against Tommy, despite the fact that Danny lined his pockets with 3ABN money, despite the fact that Danny got a divorce without biblical grounds, then there really isn't any logical reason to keep Linda off that program.
Except that perhaps they simply have no regard to basic principles of Christianity, fairness, and justice.
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A person who has read 3ABN Defender's posts and who knows the 3ABN story from the beginning sent me the following:
Hi Johann,
This person DOES NOT at all know the 3ABN history. There is alot of error here...dont know that it matters at this point. It has all been said and re-said. I would insist that this person explain "she has a more recent history..." All of this ambiguous "we know what she´s done but it´s too awful to say" stuff is getting old. Yes, if the truth isn't bad enough then they feel "called" to color it up a bit.
Blessings to you,
x x x
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Recently the following comment was made about Linda:
That is all appreciated, remembered and recorded, Johann. Along with the videos she used donated funds to make of herself, the airbrushed photos and the botox treatments, and the music she recorded and has the rights to sell today.
And, on the other side, many comments have been made in regard to income that Danny Shelton and others at 3-ABN have recieved from materials that they wrote while on salary.
It has been the historic practice of the Seventh-day Adventist church, dating back to they days of EGW and advice that she gave on this matter, to allow employees of the denomination to recieve income from the sale and use of their intellectual property. NOTE: This is a clear establishment of a view in Adventism that those who produced intellectual property retained certain rights to that intellectual property and therefore could recieve income from its sale and use even though they were full-time employees of the SDA denomination.
Under this historic practice of the SDA Church, which remains in effect today, Linda Shelton, Danny Shelton and others who have worked at 3-ABN can be considered justified in receiving income from the intellectual property that they produced. They all have the right, under this historic practice, to produce and sell.
NOTE: Intellectual property can include written material, works of art, computer code, music, performace media and much more.
NOTE: I am well aware that this historic SDA practice runs counter to what is often done in seccular business today. But, that does not make the one right and the other wrong.
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Recently the following comment was made about Linda:
That is all appreciated, remembered and recorded, Johann. Along with the videos she used donated funds to make of herself, the airbrushed photos and the botox treatments, and the music she recorded and has the rights to sell today.
And, on the other side, many comments have been made in regard to income that Danny Shelton and others at 3-ABN have recieved from materials that they wrote while on salary.
It has been the historic practice of the Seventh-day Adventist church, dating back to they days of EGW and advice that she gave on this matter, to allow employees of the denomination to recieve income from the sale and use of their intellectual property. NOTE: This is a clear establishment of a view in Adventism that those who produced intellectual property retained certain rights to that intellectual property and therefore could recieve income from its sale and use even though they were full-time employees of the SDA denomination.
Under this historic practice of the SDA Church, which remains in effect today, Linda Shelton, Danny Shelton and others who have worked at 3-ABN can be considered justified in receiving income from the intellectual property that they produced. They all have the right, under this historic practice, to produce and sell.
NOTE: Intellectual property can include written material, works of art, computer code, music, performace media and much more.
NOTE: I am well aware that this historic SDA practice runs counter to what is often done in seccular business today. But, that does not make the one right and the other wrong.
Despite what I said that you are replying to I do not disagree with your notes here, Gregory. You are right, and I, in fact, agree with you.
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They (both together nor either one of them separately) were/are not employees of the Seventh-day Adventist Church but of Three Angels Broadcasting Network and persons or a person of influence in that corporation, in DLS Publishing, D&L and Three Angels Enterprises among other ventures. As Founders of a 501c3, they were not supposed to make large amounts of money through their control of a 501c3. If they made much money they could loose 3ABN its 501c3 status for abuse of their power should government agencies enforce the rules. Judge Rowe was aware of Linda's copyrights but while she was not informed of Danny's publishing profits nor of the house deal, she still ruled that Three Angels Broadcasting Network was a profit making organization (which would be in violation of their 501c3 status). She did not take away their 501c3 status because it was not within her power to do so. As far as I know she did not forward the facts to anyone who did have juristiction over their charitable organization status because her juristiction and concern was property tax only.
It may not violate Adventist practices but allowing or condoning persons of influence to make a lot of personal profit is violation of IRS code for a 501c3s. When someone cannot deny what they personally have done but try to make themselves look better by making someone else look bad, you know they are guilty as sin.
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Linda never received any money for her recordings while she was with 3ABN. Everything that had Linda's name on it was to be eliminated at 3ABN when she was fired, including her recordings. She got some of what was intended for the trash bin - after her employment was terminated. So this discussion on what people employed by the church are entitled to has no relationship to Linda's case.
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She has a more recent history also, and it isn't all about she and her Doctor, and it prevents her from being on 3abn, and that was my point. It is unrealistic for this group here to expect that, or to think or expect that 3abn and it's board who are apprised and aware of all the history would reinstate or promote her, or remove Danny and not feature him and bow down to their wishes simply because a little group of accusers here who is not aware of all, and disagrees with them, doesn't know all the history, or get it.
This technique is called THE DEEP SIX amongst professional character assassins.
That's where someone says, "Joe Blow is a good employee, we love him dearly, but we would never let him drive the bus." This is done without any shred of evidence to warrant such a comment. Such a comment would be made to destroy Joe.
Here's the idiomatic explanation for the term.
http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/deep-six.htm
The Little Grasshopper
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She has a more recent history also, and it isn't all about she and her Doctor, and it prevents her from being on 3abn, and that was my point. It is unrealistic for this group here to expect that, or to think or expect that 3abn and it's board who are apprised and aware of all the history would reinstate or promote her, or remove Danny and not feature him and bow down to their wishes simply because a little group of accusers here who is not aware of all, and disagrees with them, doesn't know all the history, or get it.
This technique is called THE DEEP SIX amongst professional character assassins.
That's where someone says, "Joe Blow is a good employee, we love him dearly, but we would never let him drive the bus." This is done without any shred of evidence to warrant such a comment. Such a comment would be made to destroy Joe.
Here's the idiomatic explanation for the term.
http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/deep-six.htm
The Little Grasshopper
It is sad when it appears like professed Christians need the techniques of professional character assassins to defend an independent ministry. Is that a sign of integrity? Of a real missionary spirit? Do we need to pray about this? Where do we find the workings of the Holy Spirit? What is our solution?
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It has been the historic practice of the Seventh-day Adventist church, dating back to they days of EGW and advice that she gave on this matter, to allow employees of the denomination to recieve income from the sale and use of their intellectual property. NOTE: This is a clear establishment of a view in Adventism that those who produced intellectual property retained certain rights to that intellectual property and therefore could recieve income from its sale and use even though they were full-time employees of the SDA denomination.
But that isn't the issue. The issue is that Danny received royalties from Pacific press for his booklets, while at the same time receiving kickbacks from Remnant for sales of those same booklets to 3ABN. I don't of any time where Ellen White or our denomination ever approved of kickbacks.
And the issue is Danny using 3ABN to promote his 10 Comm. book, getting 3ABN to buy about $3 million of them, 3ABN ending the year with about a $3 million loss, and then suing us for the loss.
Ellen White donated to our schools the proceeds of the sales of her book COL, correct? And to our sanitariums the proceeds of the sales of her book MH, correct? What would she say if she were alive today and knew that Danny had put 3ABN in the whole in 2006, while pocketing an awful lot of money in the process? Would she approve?
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Judge Rowe was aware of Linda's copyrights but while she was not informed of Danny's publishing profits nor of the house deal, she still ruled that Three Angels Broadcasting Network was a profit making organization (which would be in violation of their 501c3 status).
Does it not appear to be unethical that Danny Shelton and Nick Miller never informed Judge Rowe about how Danny was making royalties and sales profits to 3ABN's detriment from his publishing ventures? And that Danny's lawyers then falsely claimed that there was no evidence of private inurement? And that Danny's lawyers complained over and over again about the royalties Linda was getting amounting to maybe $20?
How much royalties did Danny make in 2001? I seem to recall that it was in the thousands of dollars.
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Well, life goes on. Perhaps a Danny Shelton autobiography will air. As with all lives, organizations, and groups, an entire view of everything as it was cannot, and will not be given. The years have passed and alot of water has gone under the bridge. There are hatreds, grudges, horrible actions that have taken place (on all sides)... there has been love, care, concern, good actions (on all sides)... some of this has been intermitent and some has been consistent, but the true story in its entirety will never be told. Its complexity is more than a book, a video, a conversation, a litigation, or any other form of telling could ever encompass. There are so many things that will forever remain only between the parties, things that are of more significance to the whole story than any of the parts that will ever be told. There is hurt, anger and hatred, combined with love, and a confused care. This is something that all sides live with. There are people who some of us hate, yet we love them and would protect them with our last breath and drop of blood, why? Too hard to explain. There are things that cannot be explained in simple terms. Let Danny et al produce and air a biography that implies miracles and a divine preference. They must do what they must do. That is life and the struggle for survival. Those who need to believe it to be the full and total story, for whatever their reason, will. Those who need to declare it the full and total story regardless of knowledge and belief, will, for their own personal reasons. Those who declare it a total hoax and fundrasing scheme will do so for their reasons. All will have both valid and invalid points. The final question will be "is it of God? Is it all God-ordained? Should I align myself with one side or the other because that is the only side that God approves of and blesses? Should I look at the value and success of their marketing as proof of divine approval? Each will decide that for themselves based on their culture and preferences.
I wish each of you well this new year. I hope that you succeed in a big way in your life this coming year.
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She has a more recent history also, and it isn't all about she and her Doctor, and it prevents her from being on 3abn, and that was my point. It is unrealistic for this group here to expect that, or to think or expect that 3abn and it's board who are apprised and aware of all the history would reinstate or promote her, or remove Danny and not feature him and bow down to their wishes simply because a little group of accusers here who is not aware of all, and disagrees with them, doesn't know all the history, or get it.
This technique is called THE DEEP SIX amongst professional character assassins.
That's where someone says, "Joe Blow is a good employee, we love him dearly, but we would never let him drive the bus." This is done without any shred of evidence to warrant such a comment. Such a comment would be made to destroy Joe.
Here's the idiomatic explanation for the term.
http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/deep-six.htm
The Little Grasshopper
lol little grasshopper. Open mouth insert foot.
You mean like how you just threw out that comment "This technique is called THE DEEP SIX amongst professional character assassins." "without a shred of evidence" of that, or anything even alluding to that in your definition, in order "to destroy me" ?
Well I will leave it to you to hold to your opinion of me, and to be the expert on what professional character assassins do, just as I will leave it to 3abn, and it's board, to decide who they will, and will not, feature and use in their broadcasts, and why, as is their right.( I also will continue to maintain that it is ridiculous for members here to keep wondering if 3abn will have Linda on their programs, or expecting to see Linda on 3abn. You all need to accept that she is gone, and although you don't like it, it's done, move on and get over it. Why don't you all go campaign and do write ins to get her featured on the Hope channel instead of hoping in vain she is gonna be back on 3abn?)
And little grasshopper you should have learned by now that you just opened up this discussion for more of what you don't want to hear with your reply here, because unless you have been hiding in a hole for the last 5 years you should also know that Linda's friends were first and foremost in all the negative talk and publicity against 3abn on the internet, leading to where we are today with all this ugliness, and that is why no matter how much Joy wants her to file a suit against 3abn, she will never do so. That is the recent history I already referred to in an earlier post here and one of those reasons they will not have her on 3abn. You should also know by now that even had I wanted to cite evidence of Linda's behind the scenes involvement and manipulation in all this ugliness (Which I don't.)it would not be allowed here as it is against the rules to identify members of this forum.
Have the last word here if you so choose. I have nothing else to say to you about this.
3d
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Linda never received any money for her recordings while she was with 3ABN. Everything that had Linda's name on it was to be eliminated at 3ABN when she was fired, including her recordings. She got some of what was intended for the trash bin - after her employment was terminated. So this discussion on what people employed by the church are entitled to has no relationship to Linda's case.
Johann, I know you want to help and defend her, but these kind of claims are not helpful imo. You were not there, and I don't care what she or Mundall or whoever told you that is NOT true. The first clause of the separation agreement between 3abn and Linda Shelton which was signed by both parties on June 4, 2004 concerns exactly what you are talking about and proves the exact opposite of what you are claiming/insinuating as it originated with 3abn:
" 1. Three Angels agrees to pay Linda Shelton, within seven days of the signing of this document by both parties, the sum of $45,000. Three Angels agrees to transfer to Linda the rights, including the masters, to the five musical CD projects that she has had a primary role in (two solo projects and three duet projects with Danny and Linda) and the eight musical songs on video from the I Think About Grace album. "
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A person who has read 3ABN Defender's posts and who knows the 3ABN story from the beginning sent me the following:
Hi Johann,
This person DOES NOT at all know the 3ABN history. There is alot of error here...dont know that it matters at this point. It has all been said and re-said. I would insist that this person explain "she has a more recent history..." All of this ambiguous "we know what she´s done but it´s too awful to say" stuff is getting old. Yes, if the truth isn't bad enough then they feel "called" to color it up a bit.
Blessings to you,
x x x
:help:
May I just add here that you are doing a wonderful job of adding more unsupported claims to this discussion, while loyally preserving the anonymity of "A person who has read 3ABN Defender's posts and who knows the 3ABN story from the beginning" , and helping that person "who has read 3ABN Defender's posts and who knows the 3ABN story from the beginning" maintain that they do not read or comment or contribute to the internet discussions, Johann... :thumbsup:
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A person who has read 3ABN Defender's posts and who knows the 3ABN story from the beginning sent me the following:
Hi Johann,
This person DOES NOT at all know the 3ABN history. There is alot of error here...dont know that it matters at this point. It has all been said and re-said. I would insist that this person explain "she has a more recent history..." All of this ambiguous "we know what she´s done but it´s too awful to say" stuff is getting old. Yes, if the truth isn't bad enough then they feel "called" to color it up a bit.
Blessings to you,
x x x
:help:
May I just add here that you are doing a wonderful job of adding more unsupported claims to this discussion, while loyally preserving the anonymity of "A person who has read 3ABN Defender's posts and who knows the 3ABN story from the beginning" , and helping that person "who has read 3ABN Defender's posts and who knows the 3ABN story from the beginning" maintain that they do not read or comment or contribute to the internet discussions, Johann... :thumbsup:
Let's have your identity - and then we can talk. Yes, you do not have to reveal who you are, but you are an anonymous person here and dislike that I permit others not to reveal their identity.
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Linda never received any money for her recordings while she was with 3ABN. Everything that had Linda's name on it was to be eliminated at 3ABN when she was fired, including her recordings. She got some of what was intended for the trash bin - after her employment was terminated. So this discussion on what people employed by the church are entitled to has no relationship to Linda's case.
Johann, I know you want to help and defend her, but these kind of claims are not helpful imo. You were not there, and I don't care what she or Mundall or whoever told you that is NOT true. The first clause of the separation agreement between 3abn and Linda Shelton which was signed by both parties on June 4, 2004 concerns exactly what you are talking about and proves the exact opposite of what you are claiming/insinuating as it originated with 3abn:
" 1. Three Angels agrees to pay Linda Shelton, within seven days of the signing of this document by both parties, the sum of $45,000. Three Angels agrees to transfer to Linda the rights, including the masters, to the five musical CD projects that she has had a primary role in (two solo projects and three duet projects with Danny and Linda) and the eight musical songs on video from the I Think About Grace album. "
The documents do not tell the whole story. Were you there?
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And little grasshopper you should have learned by now that you just opened up this discussion for more of what you don't want to hear with your reply here, because unless you have been hiding in a hole for the last 5 years you should also know that Linda's friends were first and foremost in all the negative talk and publicity against 3abn on the internet ....
Who said?
Danny Shelton? He has no credibility.
Show your evidence.
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Bob,
3D doesn't have a clue who started this mess! It surely wasn't Linda! Hum, I was there in the beginning and had no clue about Linda or Danny. All I started yelling about was $ 2.4 million in Trust funds just not posted in 2000. Then in 2001 there were $ 1.7 million that were not posted! Then there were the disappearing sales on eBay from 1998-2002. Tammy took over in 2002. Then there was Tammy selling 3ABN property on her eBay store, yes folks, she did have a store. Then there is Nan_Don who has all the feedback for those sales.
I wonder if Danny will explain all these things to the "Lost and Dying World".
I don't have Hope TV. I only get 3ABN. Danny on the screen makes me nauseous. However, I will suffer to see the up coming program. Do you think they will give him the boot like they did Tommy? Oops, Tommy was on for the Shelton family Christmas sing along! Tommy had a triple bypass heart surgery. He is all well now! Maybe they will bring him back. I can't watch the kids singing because Brenda is on there! Can't stand watching her either!
Has anyone noticed how much younger everyone looks? Face lifts? Probably. Too bad they did not include the necks and hands. Another way to fool the people watching. This year has not been a productive year. I check the dates of all air times of anything on. Reruns have taken over. We got Christmas programs from yesteryear! I saw a very young Katina La-Forge (sp?) as well as a few others. I am losing interest fast!
So Mr. 3D, Leave your accusations to yourself or I will have to re-post chapter and verse as proof of Danny's bad deeds! Danny and Walt started all this internet stuff, by the way.
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Good point, Fran. It was Danny's verbal vomit on the internet that really rubbed people wrong. I recall that Danny was the one who convinced Gregory that something was awry. And Danny's tirades sure convinced me, and I wasn't a Linda supporter.
Hal Steenson convinced me too that something wasn't right.
And John Lomacang and Shelley Quinn did too.
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I suppose the program is coming tonight?
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I first heard about letters Walt Thompson wrote to some dear retired elderly ladies who claimed close friendship with Walt. The letters were very damaging to Linda. My mother came home from working at community service telling me all these stories. I got upset and didn't want to hear anymore. Later I decided to go to the internet to find out what was really going on. I learned the truth that Linda was being railroaded. Watching and listening to all the bad things all the Danny lovers were saying against Linda Shelton on world wide television, made me sick. I thought these folk have no regard for other human beings. No matter whether these things were true or not they should never have said those things on television.
After reading about the Tommy molestation chargesand Danny's public treatment of him opposite how Danny publically treated Linda, the way Danny has lined his pockets with money to be used for sending message, I still stand my ground. There is no respect for those who do not respect others.
On tonight's program, there is a discussion about Danny's childhood about how sweet he was and didn't show anger. that one makes me very sick.
Hearing from several upstanding honest people who have had to put up with Danny's temper tirades that are not short lived by a long shot, reminds me how deceiving this story is that is HONORING DANNY SHELTON the ANOINTED ONE.
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Bob,
3D doesn't have a clue who started this mess!
Fran, please don't try and tell others what I do, or do not have a clue about. I at least have read all your posts about 3abn since their beginning on CA, and have talked to 3abn, and those involved there and asked for their pov, for the other side of the story, and for their pov also-- AFTER reading your posts, The truth is I have both sides, but you don't. Why did you never do them the courtesy of ever approaching them one on one or ever asking them for the other side as Jesus asked and taught us?
So Mr. 3D, Leave your accusations to yourself or I will have to re-post chapter and verse as proof of Danny's bad deeds!
************************** I have all of your posts, from the beginning on CA, when no one had a clue what was going on, and so I have considered and weighed all, and have all of the facts from the other side as well as your preconceived, biased opinions and judgments--unlike yourself -- so I am not afraid of going head to head with you, but would prefer not to... Think! Christ did not seek controversy either, but when trapped by his confusers/accusers and confronted, he answered them also.
1An unfriendly man pursues selfish ends;
he defies all sound judgment.
2A fool finds no pleasure in understanding
but delights in airing his own opinions.
3When wickedness comes, so does contempt,
and with shame comes disgrace.
4The words of a man’s mouth are deep waters,
but the fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook.
5It is not good to be partial to the wicked
or to deprive the innocent of justice.
6A fool’s lips bring him strife,
and his mouth invites a beating.
7A fool’s mouth is his undoing,
and his lips are a snare to his soul.
8The words of a gossip are like choice morsels;
they go down to a man’s inmost parts.
9One who is slack in his work
is brother to one who destroys.
10The name of the Lord is a strong tower;
the righteous run to it and are safe.
11The wealth of the rich is their fortified city;
they imagine it an unscalable wall.
12Before his downfall a man’s heart is proud,
but humility comes before honor.
13He who answers before listening—
that is his folly and his shame.
14A man’s spirit sustains him in sickness,
but a crushed spirit who can bear?
15The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge;
the ears of the wise seek it out.
16A gift opens the way for the giver
and ushers him into the presence of the great.
17 The first to present his case seems right,
till another comes forward and questions him.
What does it mean to be a false witness against our neighbor? Here is one example in scripture:
Deuteronomy 19:16-21 "If a false witness rises against any man to testify against him of wrongdoing, 17 "then both men in the controversy shall stand before Yahweh, before the priests and the judges who serve in those days. 18 "And the judges shall make careful inquiry, and indeed, if the witness is a false witness, who has testified falsely against his brother, 19 "then you shall do to him as he thought to have done to his brother; so you shall put away the evil from among you. 20 "And those who remain shall hear and fear, and hereafter they shall not again commit such evil among you. 21 "Your eye shall not pity: life shall be for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
To be a false witness against our neighbor basically means to falsely accuse someone else of wrongdoing. In the Torah, false witnesses were dealt with very harshly. We see in the above verses that if a person was found to be bearing false witness against another person, they would be given the punishment that the other person would have received if the witness was true! With such a righteous law, we can understand why 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses' every matter truly was established. If anyone rose up as a false witness, they would be given the same punishment they thought to give to their neighbor.... risking their own life! With such a thing facing them, they would be very careful, yes?
If this righteous rule were established in today's court systems, there wouldn't be nearly the problems we see today.
Notice that the judges were required to make 'diligent inquisition', meaning that they were to be very careful and search diligently before making a judgment. We see this in other instances as well:
Deuteronomy 13:12-15 If you hear someone in one of your cities, which Yahweh your Elohim gives you to dwell in, saying, 13 'Corrupt men have gone out from among you and enticed the inhabitants of their city, saying, "Let us go and serve other elohims" ' -- which you have not known -- 14 "then you shall inquire, search out, and ask diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination was committed among you, 15 "you shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword -- utterly destroying it, all that is in it and its livestock, with the edge of the sword.
And again:
Deuteronomy 17:2-5 If there is found among you, within any of your gates which Yahweh your Elohim gives you, a man or a woman who has been wicked in the sight of Yahweh your Elohim, in transgressing His covenant, 3 "who has gone and served other elohim and worshiped them, either the sun or moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded, 4 "and it is told you, and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination has been committed in Israel, 5 "then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has committed that wicked thing, and shall stone to death that man or woman with stones.
So we see in these verses the importance of making diligent inquiry before judging that someone has done wrong or evil. While it is true that the context of these cases would be in a court of law, it is also true that judgment begins at the household of Our God:
1 Peter 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1 Corinthians 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
The principles of judgment are the same. God's will concerning judgment of matters is consistent throughout all of scripture. A DILIGENT inquiry must be made before making any sort of judgment or being a witness against another. If this is not done, and a false witness speaks...there are very serious consequences. It is a grievous sin in the eyes of God and he is not pleased and will be judged accordingly.
Bottom line? You will be accountable, Fran. for every idle word as will I, so? go for it, if you choose, but be cautious, and careful please, believe it or not, I as well as others love and care about you, and want and pray and hope for the best for you and to stand together with you one day when it really does matter and all is concluded. :)
Let our Creator Judge.
3d
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3D - I write this as one asking a sincere question. I do not have first hand knowledge of any of the 3ABN
saga although I have followed it here, on CA and on BSDA earlier. Hence I have avoided giving any dogmatic
opinions, one way or the other.
I have heard of a number of individuals who were first alerted to a problem at 3ABN, and decided to look more
deeply into events there, by the behaviour of Danny Shelton and senior management, on and off air.
As one, by your own acknowledgement, who has looked very carefully at both sides, do you see any merit in these
statements? Would it have been sound judgement to have labelled Danny as one who "protested too much"?
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3D - #17 Who filed the lawsuit?
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I've watched the updated "Mending Broken People" program that 3abn keeps broadcasting. It ends with "Tom" (I believe his name) discussing what is going to be in a future segment - that Danny remarried and that he and Linda worked together to build up 3abn. Should be interesting when it is broadcast. Wonder if Danny will have any personal comments.
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At least once it was called "Danny's project". And did I hear wrong but what I remember of the story was that Hal S. gave them the equipment to start the tv station. In the interview the guy (Tom ?) said to Molly that people say you didn't give the equipment but you did. She said yes they did. Then he slipped in that it wasn't used but was given. At least that is what I heard. Couldn't rewind to get an exact quote. What is the truth? It has always been made to sound like such a miracle that they got the equipment to start the station from a Pent. church. If it wasn't even used or useful what is the big deal to store junk, and would not be worth $100,000.
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"... 'So as soon as your building is ready, we'll donate the television equipment to you.'"
...
But interestingly, by the time the 3ABN studio was built, God provided new and better television equipment from another source, and Pastor Hal's equipment wasn't needed.
Sounds like Danny never got the equipment to me. Isn't that how it sounds to you?
Since Danny gets royalties for Kuzma's book, you would think this is Danny's official position. Or, it was his position in 2004, and he's changed his mind since then.
Request No. 7: All documents containing the 3ABN Story, all documents referencing a promised $100,000 donation of video equipment by Hal Steenson or his church or ministry, and all documents containing public or private admissions that the promised donation never took place.
(http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-63-20.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-63-20.pdf), http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-63-21.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-63-21.pdf))
5. As I have looked over the 3,585 pages belatedly produced by the Plaintiffs, I believe that the following list of deficiencies are accurate. The Plaintiffs’ belated productions in response to my Requests to Produce contain:
...
ar. No documents, audio recordings, or video recordings containing the 3ABN Story, referencing a promised $100,000 donation of video equipment by Hal Steenson, or acknowledging that that promised donation never took place.
(http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-103.pdf (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-103.pdf))
I wanted to know whether Danny et. al. first admitted publicly that the alleged donation never occurred before or after people were already publicly talking about it never occurring. An after-the-fact admission would do nothing to clear Danny of the charge of lying.
To this date we still haven't received a thing on this point. They filed a motion to dismiss on Oct. 23, 2008, and then told us the same day that they were refusing to produce documents on Oct. 27, which was a violation of a court order. And that was just one day after Simpson misled the magistrate judge in southern Illinois into believing that they would be producing documents on Oct. 27.
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Tom Mann is the producer of the program. He works or worked for WSIL, the local ABC affiliate and also for WBVN, a contemporary Christian radio station in Marion, IL. I hope he finds out what he's getting into before it's too late. Tom is a good guy.
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Just heard them say that the lady who donated the land attended the First Christian Church in Thompsonville, IL. There is and was no Christian Church in Thompsonville.
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Tom Mann is the producer of the program. He works or worked for WSIL, the local ABC affiliate and also for WBVN, a contemporary Christian radio station in Marion, IL. I hope he finds out what he's getting into before it's too late. Tom is a good guy.
Sorry...Tom Mann and I believe his wife have been employees at 3abn for quite some time and believe now, more than ever, in the work of this ministry.
This program was excellent and Tom did a fantastic job of putting it all together. I understand he had hundreds of hours of interviews.
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Tom Mann is the producer of the program. He works or worked for WSIL, the local ABC affiliate and also for WBVN, a contemporary Christian radio station in Marion, IL. I hope he finds out what he's getting into before it's too late. Tom is a good guy.
Sorry...Tom Mann and I believe his wife have been employees at 3abn for quite some time and believe now, more than ever, in the work of this ministry.
This program was excellent and Tom did a fantastic job of putting it all together. I understand he had hundreds of hours of interviews.
Why did he say Fonda Summers attended First Christian Church in Thompsonville? There is no such church.
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Also, the pink paint on the old 3ABN set was created by Linda Shelton and myself. I cannot believe that this wasn't mentioned in the documentary, since it is such an intregal part of the story.
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Wow. Now Fonda Summers was a Methodist. (BTW, there's no Methodist church in Thompsonville, either.)
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1. What difference does it make what denomination Fonda Summers was from--the point is she was not SDA but she had a heart relationship with Jesus and she gave what she could give! God bless her for it.
2. It also doesn't matter about the equipment donated by the Pentecostal church not being used. What DOES matter is that God used this amazing free gift to encourage and let Danny Shelton know that He wanted 3ABN to go forward. I mean Danny didn't even have the land yet. It was planned to use the equipment until it became apparent that it had become outdated by the time they were ready for it. Newer equipment was a better use of money given. Besides, God owns the cattle on a THOUSAND HILLS and it was no problem for Him to build 3ABN to share the Good News with people who need it.
3. Pink paint on the set? Nothing was said about any sets at all. They didn't get that far yet. Didn't you hear that there is another 30 minute section yet to come? Tom said it would include Linda Shelton. Maybe it will include you too.
I'm sure MANY people who were involved in the beginnings of 3ABN who worked hard have not been mentioned and won't be mentioned at all. But God used willing people with willing hearts to get His 3-angels messages out to the whole world. God is to be PRAISED over and over and over again. PRAISE HIS NAME!!! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!
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Junebug - I think that was a joke! (about the pink paint) Lighten up! And it does matter, greatly, about the equipment and what it was worth. It was made to sound like they were given $100,000 of TV equipment, like it was worth that and they were getting it for free. If I give give someone my old couch that I paid $1,000 for 10 years ago I can't claim that I gave them a thousand dollar couch. The value would be what a 10 year old couch was worth. They were leading people to believe something that was not the truth and doing it with the intent of getting into their pocket books and purses.
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1. What difference does it make what denomination Fonda Summers was from--the point is she was not SDA but she had a heart relationship with Jesus and she gave what she could give! God bless her for it.
2. It also doesn't matter about the equipment donated by the Pentecostal church not being used. What DOES matter is that God used this amazing free gift to encourage and let Danny Shelton know that He wanted 3ABN to go forward. I mean Danny didn't even have the land yet. It was planned to use the equipment until it became apparent that it had become outdated by the time they were ready for it. Newer equipment was a better use of money given. Besides, God owns the cattle on a THOUSAND HILLS and it was no problem for Him to build 3ABN to share the Good News with people who need it.
3. Pink paint on the set? Nothing was said about any sets at all. They didn't get that far yet. Didn't you hear that there is another 30 minute section yet to come? Tom said it would include Linda Shelton. Maybe it will include you too.
I'm sure MANY people who were involved in the beginnings of 3ABN who worked hard have not been mentioned and won't be mentioned at all. But God used willing people with willing hearts to get His 3-angels messages out to the whole world. God is to be PRAISED over and over and over again. PRAISE HIS NAME!!! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!
Well, you would think that they would want to get it right about Fonda Summers. After all, details are king to some of you people. I just find it funny that it was told she went to 2 different denominations of churches in Thgompsonville that don't even exist there.
Yes, the comment about the pink paint was a joke. I thought I was absurd enough that anyone could recognize that. I guess I was wrong. lol
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A friend told me he'd turned 3ABN on to listen to the Sabbath School lesson study. In stead he heard two hours of Danny's story where Linda was mentioned too.
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A friend told me he'd turned 3ABN on to listen to the Sabbath School lesson study. In stead he heard two hours of Danny's story where Linda was mentioned too.
They did mention Linda, in passing. I watched for an hour and a half and never saw her face. I never heard Jim and Ann Greer mentioned either, and I personally have heard Danny call them co-founders. They were abruptly removed from 3ABN when I worked there, and then we had a meeting where they were trashed in front of all the employees. Makes me wonder what really happened to them now.
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3D - I write this as one asking a sincere question. I do not have first hand knowledge of any of the 3ABN
saga although I have followed it here, on CA and on BSDA earlier. Hence I have avoided giving any dogmatic
opinions, one way or the other.
I have heard of a number of individuals who were first alerted to a problem at 3ABN, and decided to look more
deeply into events there, by the behaviour of Danny Shelton and senior management, on and off air.
As one, by your own acknowledgement, who has looked very carefully at both sides, do you see any merit in these
statements? Would it have been sound judgement to have labelled Danny as one who "protested too much"?
Emma, thank you for your question. I am not sure if answering it in detail here is on topic or not. :) So, I will be brief. In looking at all and reading the very first posts and publicized announcements and letters. It is my opinion that 3abn initially gave no details and were in fact being criticized for not doing so. No one knew why Linda was no longer at 3abn or even what the problem was within the Shelton's marriage. IMO, that was all announced and made public by Linda, Darell Mundall, and Johann Thorvaldsson, and others, ( not by those who were alerted to problems and wanted to look at them) Linda adnd her friends were the ones doing "the alerting" - which in turn brought about the responses from Danny Shelton and 3abn, which in turn was used to justify the accusations by Linda and her friends that 3abn was publicly trashing her.
A friend is helping compile a timeline which demonstrates all of this, and includes the fliers handed out at campmeeting before Linda was even fired or divorced (fliers made by Johann, the DR, Linda's help, and Danny's ex son in law). The first article published by AToday revealing all from the perspective of "sources close to Linda" who were "speaking out" and referring to both Johann and Mundall, and Linda and her website registered in June of 2004 by Mundall- as sources. There is alot more... and many others also, in the small group who started all this publicity and ugliness, on CA, and then moving to BSDA and Maritime as a group to continue with their agenda to bring down both Danny Shelton and 3abn. When all the research is done, and documented, this will all be layed out and published online so all can see for themselves who the people were and what they did and said on Linda's behalf, and how they worked to orchestrate a campaign against 3abn with calls and emails to Churches and officials ect... Of course that can't be here, as this forum won't allow us to publish the identities of SSOM, Artiste, Sister, Watchbird or any of the others in the group, so that limits what I can say here. The other forum will do as one vehicle to finally reveal all as Linda has asked, and in fact demanded. Being that the lawsuit is over, It is past time, imo.
But, anyway the point is Danny Shelton was speaking in reaction to all that was being said about him imo, and in hindsight it may have been better for him not to have spoken in some instances, but it was a case of he and 3abn being found at fault and attacked when they didn't say something, and then found at fault and attacked when they did. NOT easy. Unfortunately and imo it is true that many have said things on both sides in all of this which shouldn't have been said, but as far as DS protesting too much goes? No I don't see it that way. Not, if all is examined and what he actually said, vs what it has been reported that he said is looked at. If one goes by only what Linda and her friends have claimed, well I understand it could look that way, for that's exactly what they were trying to make it look like.
I hope this answers your question somewhat.
3d
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Thank you for your response 3D. You have given your conclusions, which is what I requested.
Being 'brief' is fine, I was not asking for detailed reasons for those conclusions.
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A friend told me he'd turned 3ABN on to listen to the Sabbath School lesson study. In stead he heard two hours of Danny's story where Linda was mentioned too.
They did mention Linda, in passing. I watched for an hour and a half and never saw her face. I never heard Jim and Ann Greer mentioned either, and I personally have heard Danny call them co-founders. They were abruptly removed from 3ABN when I worked there, and then we had a meeting where they were trashed in front of all the employees. Makes me wonder what really happened to them now.
You must not have listened closely as they did mention Ann Greer. You wonder why she wasn't there long? Linda didn't want her there.
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It will be interesting to see the "new" report that is coming.
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You must not have listened closely as they did mention Ann Greer. You wonder why she wasn't there long? Linda didn't want her there.
I'll take your word that they mentioned Ann. It could very well have happened one of the times while I was out of the room. I didn't sit there glued to the set in awe.
As far as Linda not wanting her there, that's unsubstantiated.
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"Unsubstantiated" is a convenient term in your vocabulary. You happen to have a vested interested in Linda's position so of course you would use that word. How about if you provide names, dates, and verbatim transcripts that substantiate your insinuated claim that Linda didn't want Ann out of the picture. You prove the claim is false with verifiable information. The ball is in your court. Until you provide documentation that is verifiable via independently alternative sources then one would have to accept the claims of Sam as solid evidence.
Do you have a certified doc, signed by Linda that she wanted Ann at 3ABN? Do you have an email that can forensically be tracked back to Linda that indicates she wanted Ann at 3ABN? Do you have a signed statement (by Linda Shelton) that says she wanted Ann to be a part of 3ABN?
As the process goes forward there will be ever increasing evidence that Linda was at the root of all these attacks against 3ABN. It may even be evident that she facilitated the financing of the attacks. The money may not have come from her account - but the connections will lead back to her.
You must not have listened closely as they did mention Ann Greer. You wonder why she wasn't there long? Linda didn't want her there.
I'll take your word that they mentioned Ann. It could very well have happened one of the times while I was out of the room. I didn't sit there glued to the set in awe.
As far as Linda not wanting her there, that's unsubstantiated.
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anyman and Danny_Defender,
The idea that Linda is the root of it all is a bald faced lie, as is clear from my conversation with John Lomacang on September 1, 2007.
John blamed it all on Linda and Arild. More than once. And each time I told him I couldn't buy that, since Pastor Dryden's letter to Walt Thompson was written in the first half of 2003.
Now if you guys want to propose that Linda is the one who got Dryden to write the letter in 2003 about Tommy's molesting boys, and that Linda then got Danny to call Dryden to make his stupid veiled threats and to admit that Tommy really did do something, and that Linda got Dryden and Danny to do that in 2003 because she was trying to take down Danny and 3ABN, more than a year before the divorce, then go right ahead.
After all, there are gullible people out there ... somewhere ... who would be gullible enough or dimwitted enough or drunk enough or spaced out enough or drowsy enough to buy such a far fetched, weird, crazy, impossible tale.
As far as AToday goes, what is the date of the article you refer to, Danny_Defender? Was that article published before or after Danny went on the air and said what he did around June 17, 2004?
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Here is a better proposal:
1. You prove, by linking to unedited transcripts of emails or telephone conversations with Pastor Lomacang, that he "blamed" Linda.
2. You prove that Linda wasn't in communication with Pastor Dryden. This would be tough if you truly are not in regular communication with Linda. It also would be something that you would want to try and twist out of.
3. You prove that Linda never said her goal was take down 3ABN and Danny. This would require you to have verified sources that communicated with Linda after the divorce and separation agreement with 3ABN. By providing these you would be evidencing your direct contact with Linda, which arguably goes back further than you have admitted to.
It is interesting that you would use a reasonable description of those who ascribe to the maniacal theories that have been developed by GAJ and yourself, - "who would be gullible enough or dimwitted enough or drunk enough or spaced out enough or drowsy enough to buy such a far fetched, weird, crazy, impossible tale." - to describe those you disagree with you.
Your circular arguments will only result in an ever enclosing lariat that you will end up hanging yourself with. You've got far enough rope . . . now the world sits back and watches how you tie the knots.
anyman and Danny_Defender,
The idea that Linda is the root of it all is a bald faced lie, as is clear from my conversation with John Lomacang on September 1, 2007.
John blamed it all on Linda and Arild. More than once. And each time I told him I couldn't buy that, since Pastor Dryden's letter to Walt Thompson was written in the first half of 2003.
Now if you guys want to propose that Linda is the one who got Dryden to write the letter in 2003 about Tommy's molesting boys, and that Linda then got Danny to call Dryden to make his stupid veiled threats and to admit that Tommy really did do something, and that Linda got Dryden and Danny to do that in 2003 because she was trying to take down Danny and 3ABN, more than a year before the divorce, then go right ahead.
After all, there are gullible people out there ... somewhere ... who would be gullible enough or dimwitted enough or drunk enough or spaced out enough or drowsy enough to buy such a far fetched, weird, crazy, impossible tale.
As far as AToday goes, what is the date of the article you refer to, Danny_Defender? Was that article published before or after Danny went on the air and said what he did around June 17, 2004?
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Emma, thank you for your question. I am not sure if answering it in detail here is on topic or not. :) So, I will be brief. In looking at all and reading the very first posts and publicized announcements and letters. It is my opinion that 3abn initially gave no details and were in fact being criticized for not doing so. No one knew why Linda was no longer at 3abn or even what the problem was within the Shelton's marriage. IMO, that was all announced and made public by Linda, Darell Mundall, and Johann Thorvaldsson, and others, ( not by those who were alerted to problems and wanted to look at them) Linda adnd her friends were the ones doing "the alerting" - which in turn brought about the responses from Danny Shelton and 3abn, which in turn was used to justify the accusations by Linda and her friends that 3abn was publicly trashing her.
A friend is helping compile a timeline which demonstrates all of this, and includes the fliers handed out at campmeeting before Linda was even fired or divorced (fliers made by Johann, the DR, Linda's help, and Danny's ex son in law). The first article published by AToday revealing all from the perspective of "sources close to Linda" who were "speaking out" and referring to both Johann and Mundall, and Linda and her website registered in June of 2004 by Mundall- as sources. There is alot more... and many others also, in the small group who started all this publicity and ugliness, on CA, and then moving to BSDA and Maritime as a group to continue with their agenda to bring down both Danny Shelton and 3abn. When all the research is done, and documented, this will all be layed out and published online so all can see for themselves who the people were and what they did and said on Linda's behalf, and how they worked to orchestrate a campaign against 3abn with calls and emails to Churches and officials ect... Of course that can't be here, as this forum won't allow us to publish the identities of SSOM, Artiste, Sister, Watchbird or any of the others in the group, so that limits what I can say here. The other forum will do as one vehicle to finally reveal all as Linda has asked, and in fact demanded. Being that the lawsuit is over, It is past time, imo.
But, anyway the point is Danny Shelton was speaking in reaction to all that was being said about him imo, and in hindsight it may have been better for him not to have spoken in some instances, but it was a case of he and 3abn being found at fault and attacked when they didn't say something, and then found at fault and attacked when they did. NOT easy. Unfortunately and imo it is true that many have said things on both sides in all of this which shouldn't have been said, but as far as DS protesting too much goes? No I don't see it that way. Not, if all is examined and what he actually said, vs what it has been reported that he said is looked at. If one goes by only what Linda and her friends have claimed, well I understand it could look that way, for that's exactly what they were trying to make it look like.
I hope this answers your question somewhat.
3d
You have an amazing knowledge, 3d. You seem to know of a number of things I'm supposed to have done of which I have no knowledge. Where do you get such information? Is your source trustworthy?
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anyman and Danny_Defender,
The idea that Linda is the root of it all is a bald faced lie, as is clear from my conversation with John Lomacang on September 1, 2007.
John blamed it all on Linda and Arild. More than once. And each time I told him I couldn't buy that, since Pastor Dryden's letter to Walt Thompson was written in the first half of 2003...
You were also directly told the following and didn't buy it:
"As I recall the events of 2003, I received a call from Brad Thorp from the General Conference telling me of Pastor Dryden's accusations. Brad appropriately told me that it was not his concern, and that it was ours to handle. As I recall, I contacted pastor Dryden and heard his side of the story following which I received the letter that is circulating. I was at 3abn at the time and spoke at length with Danny about the matter. He shared with me the details as he understood them. Whether or not I was aware of what generated the letter at that time, I do not remember. Based upon my understanding that Dryden had had a long standing feud with Tommy over factors unrelated to the above accusations, it did not seem indicated to approach the boys in question directly, having been informed that no case had ever been filed with the courts or legal disposition made. We then discussed the situation with the full board. Given the alleged events had occured many years before, attempts had been made to make things right, and no legal action had been taken, we did not see any reason to pursue the issue further nor to follow through with his recommendations. In my reply to pastor Dryden I merely thanked him for fulfilling his obligation to us. ...Subsequently, after this issue has been brought back to the forefront (I think there is only one person who could have known about this and brought it to world wide attention, and that person was then on the board and voted with the concensus)"
Whether you buy it or not, Bob? Is not the issue.
As far as AToday goes, what is the date of the article you refer to, Danny_Defender? Was that article published before or after Danny went on the air and said what he did around June 17, 2004?
I have seen it ,and the date is before, but I think it is a waste of time to argue about that now, or about what Danny did or did not say, or even to argue with you period. What you think is not even a issue or a criteria in establishing a history. It will all be documented with dates and documents so it can all plainly be seen and understood by others (without the commentary, editing and reinterpretations and unsubstantiated accusations you are famous for) so you can either wait patiently for that, or continue with your twist and shout dance throughout the New Year. Your choice.
toodles...
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1. You prove, by linking to unedited transcripts of emails or telephone conversations with Pastor Lomacang, that he "blamed" Linda.
Why is that necessary? I was a party to that conversation, and I know what he told me.
2. You prove that Linda wasn't in communication with Pastor Dryden.
So you really are going to propose that Linda got Dryden to write a letter more than a year before the divorce? You really are going to go down that road?
Oh, I forgot. You're also going to have to propose that Linda, early in 2003, got Roger Clem to come forward and say that Tommy had molested him.
And none of this would really mean a thing, unless you propose that Linda convinced both Roger and Dryden to lie about it all, and that Tommy never really molested boys. If Tommy really is a child molester, then Linda's concern about that would be vindicating, not condemning.
Now, how do you propose to explain why Danny would then lie in his answering machine message to Dryden that Tommy had really truly done something for which the statute of limitations would apply? It's a catch 22. If Tommy molested boys, then Danny has got some serious problems since he covered it all up. And if Tommy didn't, then Danny is a liar for suggesting that Tommy did.
3. You prove that Linda never said her goal was take down 3ABN and Danny.
It seems to me that that is totally irrelevant. Even if she said such, it doesn't mean that all the concern people have had over the various facets of the Danny Shelton corruption scandal was instigated by Linda.
It is interesting that you would use a reasonable description of those who ascribe to the maniacal theories that have been developed by GAJ and yourself, - "who would be gullible enough or dimwitted enough or drunk enough or spaced out enough or drowsy enough to buy such a far fetched, weird, crazy, impossible tale." - to describe those you disagree with you.
I do not appreciate your twisting my words. My statement is clear that you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would buy the story that Linda got Dryden to write his 2003 letter in order to take down Danny and 3ABN, when she and Danny weren't even estranged yet. But someone extremely gullible or dimwitted or drunk or spaced out or half asleep just might.
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You were also directly told the following and didn't buy it:
"As I recall the events of 2003, I received a call from Brad Thorp from the General Conference telling me of Pastor Dryden's accusations. Brad appropriately told me that it was not his concern, and that it was ours to handle. As I recall, I contacted pastor Dryden and heard his side of the story following which I received the letter that is circulating. I was at 3abn at the time and spoke at length with Danny about the matter. He shared with me the details as he understood them. Whether or not I was aware of what generated the letter at that time, I do not remember. Based upon my understanding that Dryden had had a long standing feud with Tommy over factors unrelated to the above accusations, it did not seem indicated to approach the boys in question directly, having been informed that no case had ever been filed with the courts or legal disposition made. We then discussed the situation with the full board. Given the alleged events had occured many years before, attempts had been made to make things right, and no legal action had been taken, we did not see any reason to pursue the issue further nor to follow through with his recommendations. In my reply to pastor Dryden I merely thanked him for fulfilling his obligation to us. ...Subsequently, after this issue has been brought back to the forefront (I think there is only one person who could have known about this and brought it to world wide attention, and that person was then on the board and voted with the concensus)"
Whether you buy it or not, Bob? Is not the issue.
And who was Walt talking about in that email? Was he talking about Linda or someone else?
More importantly, the information about that 2003 letter did not come from any past or present 3ABN board member, directly or indirectly. Walt simply doesn't know what he is talking about.
But how I found out about the letter is irrelevant to the point that Walt irresponsibly never really investigated the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton, since he never contacted any of the alleged victims or their families or the two organizations that gave Tommy credentials.
But what it does show is that Walt didn't fire Linda over any alleged adultery, since Walt, like Danny, had no problem with replacing an alleged adulteress with a known pedophile.
And I think that is super disgusting.
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Mr Pickle,
I am always amazed at how you must think all are idiots. Please keep in mind that you are a "Johnny come lately" in the timeline.
The letter being discussed was sent by Glen Dryden to Dr Walter Thompson, the chairman of the 3abn board, in 2003. Dr Thompson only shared it with the 3abn board.
Therefore the information you received and which caused you to approach Glenn Dryden could only have come from there.
I am sure you will be outraged to know that those who were there in 2003 and participants in the events being discussed consider that it is you who "simply doesn't know what he is talking about". I am also sure that you will further be outraged to hear that it is your behavior and actions and accusations from the time you jumped on board the Linda express several years later that are what is regarded as "super disgusting" and is what led to you being sued and your poor standing in Adventist circles today. ( with the exception of the little circle here of course.)
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You have an amazing knowledge, 3d. You seem to know of a number of things I'm supposed to have done of which I have no knowledge. Where do you get such information? Is your source trustworthy?
You are so very good at planting your insinuations, Johann. Why don't you wait to see what is documented before going defensive, or attacking? Now I too have wasted too much time as I have other things to do.
"toodles..."
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"Unsubstantiated" is a convenient term in your vocabulary. You happen to have a vested interested in Linda's position so of course you would use that word. How about if you provide names, dates, and verbatim transcripts that substantiate your insinuated claim that Linda didn't want Ann out of the picture. You prove the claim is false with verifiable information. The ball is in your court. Until you provide documentation that is verifiable via independently alternative sources then one would have to accept the claims of Sam as solid evidence.
Do you have a certified doc, signed by Linda that she wanted Ann at 3ABN? Do you have an email that can forensically be tracked back to Linda that indicates she wanted Ann at 3ABN? Do you have a signed statement (by Linda Shelton) that says she wanted Ann to be a part of 3ABN?
As the process goes forward there will be ever increasing evidence that Linda was at the root of all these attacks against 3ABN. It may even be evident that she facilitated the financing of the attacks. The money may not have come from her account - but the connections will lead back to her.
You must not have listened closely as they did mention Ann Greer. You wonder why she wasn't there long? Linda didn't want her there.
I'll take your word that they mentioned Ann. It could very well have happened one of the times while I was out of the room. I didn't sit there glued to the set in awe.
As far as Linda not wanting her there, that's unsubstantiated.
Now that's funny! Please explain to me what my "vested interest in Linda's position" is. I can't wait to hear this.
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The letter being discussed was sent by Glen Dryden to Dr Walter Thompson, the chairman of the 3abn board, in 2003. Dr Thompson only shared it with the 3abn board.
Therefore the information you received and which caused you to approach Glenn Dryden could only have come from there.
And that is false.
I am sure you will be outraged to know that those who were there in 2003 and participants in the events being discussed consider that it is you who "simply doesn't know what he is talking about". I am also sure that you will further be outraged to hear that it is your behavior and actions and accusations from the time you jumped on board the Linda express several years later that are what is regarded as "super disgusting" and is what led to you being sued and your poor standing in Adventist circles today. ( with the exception of the little circle here of course.)
I have to assume that you are referring to sick individuals, since it is only the sick that would think it disgusting to complain about Danny Shelton's cover up of Tommy's child molestation.
I never jumped on board the Linda express.
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You have an amazing knowledge, 3d. You seem to know of a number of things I'm supposed to have done of which I have no knowledge. Where do you get such information? Is your source trustworthy?
You are so very good at planting your insinuations, Johann. Why don't you wait to see what is documented before going defensive, or attacking? Now I too have wasted too much time as I have other things to do.
"toodles..."
Those were questions based on what your wrote, and no insinuations.
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"toodles..."
Ian
Senior Member
****
Gender: Female
Posts: 299
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good"
toodles. Waving smiley
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Now I too have wasted too much time as I have other things to do.
"toodles....
Yes, Ms. Toodles, you need to switch to a bazillion of your other names and keep on posting.
They've still got jobs in Indiana last time I checked. Get one.
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Ian - from your post - (I think there is only one person who could have known about this and brought it to world wide attention,...). You underlined starting at the there. The I think totally changes the content of the sentence. "I think" means the person writing is not sure of the fact.
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Grat,
You have an excellent point there. Also, the words "could have" is not a direct statement, either.
The sentence with "I think" and "could have" state a theory: "I think Neptune is the only one who could have destroyed those Roman ships with his trident."
This sentence doesn't state that Neptune did anything at all.
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After reading all this "c_ _ p", I figured I would add my thoughts because 3D, anyman, and grasshopper came here with a purpose in mind of mudding the water, so I can do that too, right. I am going to go back further than Bob!
Power, absolute power belonged to Danny, “the supreme being” that he feels he is! It was accepted by many that his word was God's word! It is true. He has always been this way; "My (Danny's) way, or the highway!"
It happened in the boardroom the time that LINDA convinced the board to vote against Danny! Yeah, it really and truly happened on more than one occasion! Danny would not let it happen again! One instance was about who could sing on 3ABN. Linda thought everyone singing on 3ABN should not be an adulterer or be smoking or drinking! The board agreed and voted in agreement with Linda! However, Danny wanted his daughter to sing, and she did just that, defying the board and his wife! What a slap in Danny’s face to have his wife and board to dictate to him about Melody, his own daughter, even if she was committing adultery and smoking.
Then, back several years, the board knew about Tommy. The board and Linda voted not to allow Tommy on the 3ABN payroll! That was it! Danny was livid. He began his vendetta against Linda! Danny hired Tommy under contract selling and installing satellites. So he did his in your face task and went about his merry way and eventually Danny put Tommy back on the 3ABN payroll with NO BOARD APPROVAL just Danny’s!
Then that dastardly Dryden letter came in 2003! This is when Danny rounded up those most faithful to him to pray with him to get Linda off the board. She was fighting him! Thus came the, "I no longer was my vice president!" The group had finally done Danny dastardly deed!. The doctor was nothing but a convenient target. Linda was the cause of this mess, but for the reasons I speak and NOT for committing adultery! Something new has hit the light of day and is about to become public. What a breath of fresh air! The Lord will shine the light of day to help put this puzzle together once and for all. What is it? Beats me, but I am getting excited to find out! Why else would the Dannyites be out in such force? I am going to count on something about to hit the fan. This is all just my opinion. Now, just to give you liars a bit to fodder, Tax investigations are still ongoing as of my report last week. Tell me how stupid I am. I could care less. You are the ones that are not looking at the facts! And I did share with one person my information. Chew that cob! My story is as valid as yours is. You have no evidence for your “c_ _p”! So I am no stupider than you are!
Bob;
I need to start a blog! I read so many of those things. I am spitting mad that they dare come over here and accuse Johann of not knowing what he did or did not do. I am waiting for the hammer to fall. The ONLY I agree with them about is that it was started by Danny, because LINDA voted against him on GODLY PRINCIPALS! Danny went straight against those votes based on God’s word! He usurped GOD’S desires and replaced them with Danny’s desires. Danny has placed himself in God’s place. God, please save his soul!
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Tax investigations are still ongoing as of my report last week.
Interesting, Fran.
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Something new has hit the light of day and is about to become public. What a breath of fresh air! The Lord will shine the light of day to help put this puzzle together once and for all. What is it? Beats me, but I am getting excited to find out! Why else would the Dannyites be out in such force? I am going to count on something about to hit the fan. This is all just my opinion. Now, just to give you liars a bit to fodder, Tax investigations are still ongoing as of my report last week. Tell me how stupid I am. I could care less. You are the ones that are not looking at the facts! And I did share with one person my information. Chew that cob! My story is as valid as yours is. You have no evidence for your “c_ _p”! So I am no stupider than you are!
Bravo, Fran! Very well said! :TY: :thumbsup: :goodpost:
I also have noticed a resurgence of posts from the defenders, including a barrage of PMs I got from 3ABN Defender. Something is definitely afoot, and they're trying to head it off at the pass.
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Think it has anything to do with the 11 to 12 pounds of sealed bank statements Pucci's employee Christine Parizo walked away with from the federal courthouse in Worcester, Massachusetts, in violation of a court order?
I wonder if that story would catch any eyes among the big media. Here it is post-9/11, and someone walks away with 11 to 12 pounds of sealed documents from a federal courthouse in violation of a court order.
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[
I also have noticed a resurgence of posts from the defenders, including a barrage of PMs I got from 3ABN Defender. Something is definitely afoot, and they're trying to head it off at the pass.
If something is "afoot", other than what has been posted here, I am not aware of it, Duane. I am also somewhat surprized and taken aback to see you describe my replies to your PMs to me as "a barrage of PMs I got from 3ABN Defender".
I usually consider PMs private and confidential, but as you have brought them up here publicly and that may cause questions or concerns with others who you are posting to, I am perfectly willing to quote all in a thread here so that others can see what we both said.
Would you like me to do that? If so, just let me know.
3d
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"toodles..."
Ian
Senior Member
****
Gender: Female
Posts: 299
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good"
toodles. Waving smiley
Now I too have wasted too much time as I have other things to do.
"toodles....
Yes, Ms. Toodles, you need to switch to a bazillion of your other names and keep on posting.
They've still got jobs in Indiana last time I checked. Get one.
You have replied to the same post and quote twice in a row here, and by all reports we don't know each other.
I am not quite sure what the problem is here, as your last 3 posts have all targeted me personally,rather than addressing the topics of discussion. They do not appear to me to be in line with your previous posts on this forum having to do with your political and church views and recipes and songs: "bring in the clowns" and thus I am not sure what caused this change.
If I have done or said something which brought on this focus feel free to bring the issue up in a thread here, or send me a pm here and we can discuss it. I would prefer that.
3d
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Ian - from your post - (I think there is only one person who could have known about this and brought it to world wide attention,...). You underlined starting at the there. The I think totally changes the content of the sentence. "I think" means the person writing is not sure of the fact.
Grat- I didn't mean to give a false impression with the words I underlined, and you bring up a valid point in that Dr T did use the words " I think".
I would just add to what you said as I disagree in part, that sometimes our thoughts and what we think is based on facts which we know, or which have been proven, and other times they are based on our own faulty opinions or partial views. I believe we should all allow for the fact that we are human and may be wrong or mistaken.
IMO, Dr T used wisdom and discretion in speaking as he did, and I appreciate that. "I think" Pickle and Joy could and should do the same. They could do with a whole lot more " I thinks" rather than speaking as if their thoughts and opinions are infallible and proven facts. They aren't.
Blessings...
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[quote author=3ABN_Defender link=topic=1769.msg22325#msg22325 date=1262703865
You have replied to the same post and quote twice in a row here, and by all reports we don't know each other.
3d
[/quote]
The others won't ask, but I will.
1. How is it you can use the trademark "3ABN" and call yourself 3ABN Defender without having 14 lawyers in Minneapolis and Boston immediately climb all over you back? You've been the 3ABN DEFENDER for some time and no lawyer has said a word to you? How does that work? Explain, please.
2. You report, with assurance, that another site is going to publish your timeline so that you can continue to be the 3ABN Defender. And yet, "by all reports we don't know each other." And why add the modifier, "by all reports"?
4. Have you had the business cards printed with 3ABN DEFENDER, Inc., on them? Do you get paid $350 an hour for being a legal spokesperson? You seem to function here as an agency of the parent organization. Does 3ABN know you are the 3ABN Defender? Do they approve and stand behind your commentary? There are 14 or more lawyers associated with the law firms 3ABN employs, but you can do more defense work for free with your timeline publishing business? Explain, please.
5. And after all of that, 'by all reports" you claim you are not known by "Ian." Ian, who claims to know almost all the facts doesn't know the 3ABN Defender and the 3ABN Defender doesn't know Ian.
How odd. Please forgive me, 3ABN Defender, but I'm a bit skeptical.
Little Grasshopper
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Dear Skeptic,
You appear irrational to me. You don't want to discuss what the bee is in your bonnet as reasonable people can and should? So be it. Before moving on I am just going to say these three things.
I speak for myself. I was not sent here by 3abn and am not payed by them or anyone else to post here.
If I had not signed up here with the login name of 3ABN Defender, this group would have labelled me that anyway, as they have been labelling all who disagreed with them from their early days on MSDAOL, and Blacksda. If you have a problem with the name, take it up with those who created it.
For your own sake you really need to be more careful about making claims regarding what individuals have either said or have not said, or done, or not done, when they are not based on facts, because it amounts to lying.
"toodles..."
3d
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It happened in the boardroom the time that LINDA convinced the board to vote against Danny! Yeah, it really and truly happened on more than one occasion! Danny would not let it happen again! One instance was about who could sing on 3ABN. Linda thought everyone singing on 3ABN should not be an adulterer or be smoking or drinking! The board agreed and voted in agreement with Linda! However, Danny wanted his daughter to sing, and she did just that, defying the board and his wife! What a slap in Danny’s face to have his wife and board to dictate to him about Melody, his own daughter, even if she was committing adultery and smoking.
Then, back several years, the board knew about Tommy. The board and Linda voted not to allow Tommy on the 3ABN payroll! That was it! Danny was livid. He began his vendetta against Linda! Danny hired Tommy under contract selling and installing satellites. So he did his in your face task and went about his merry way and eventually Danny put Tommy back on the 3ABN payroll with NO BOARD APPROVAL just Danny’s!
Then that dastardly Dryden letter came in 2003! This is when Danny rounded up those most faithful to him to pray with him to get Linda off the board. She was fighting him! Thus came the, "I no longer was my vice president!" The group had finally done Danny dastardly deed!. The doctor was nothing but a convenient target. Linda was the cause of this mess, but for the reasons I speak and NOT for committing adultery! Something new has hit the light of day and is about to become public. What a breath of fresh air! The Lord will shine the light of day to help put this puzzle together once and for all. What is it? Beats me, but I am getting excited to find out! Why else would the Dannyites be out in such force? I am going to count on something about to hit the fan. This is all just my opinion. Now, just to give you liars a bit to fodder, Tax investigations are still ongoing as of my report last week. Tell me how stupid I am. I could care less. You are the ones that are not looking at the facts! And I did share with one person my information. Chew that cob! My story is as valid as yours is. You have no evidence for your “c_ _p”! So I am no stupider than you are!
Fran, have you ever heard of a rumor mill that runs backwards? You feed it with facts and when they come out the other end they are classified as rumors.
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For your own sake you really need to be more careful about making claims regarding what individuals have either said or have not said, or done, or not done, when they are not based on facts, because it amounts to lying.
It's absurd that you would be the one who would want people to be careful about what others have said or not said.
You said:
When all the research is done, and documented, this will all be layed out and published online so all can see for themselves who the people were and what they did and said on Linda's behalf, and how they worked to orchestrate a campaign against 3abn with calls and emails to Churches and officials ect... Of course that can't be here, as this forum won't allow us to publish the identities of SSOM, Artiste, Sister, Watchbird or any of the others in the group, so that limits what I can say here. The other forum will do as one vehicle to finally reveal all as Linda has asked, and in fact demanded.
Consider the last part where you say, "finally reveal all as Linda has asked and in fact demanded." You put words in Linda Shelton's mouth. Linda asked that specific evidence about Linda, herself, be made public. You have no such evidence, such as a purported telephone recording. Therefore, you have no capacity to ever comply with Linda Shelton's request. You have no ability in that area. Period. Therefore, you will not be doing what Linda Shelton requested. Don't try to say you are doing what Linda Shelton demanded. You are not.
Also, for the record, I believe no such incriminating evidence regarding Linda ever existed. Since you have no connections to 3ABN, as you stated, you can do nothing but substitute your own synthesized logic, as pitiful as that may be.
Therefore, you are the one that needs to be more careful about what others have said or not said. I've just been asking you qualifying questions. By doing so, I'm learning that your interpretation of events is totally unfounded and totally baseless.
Little Grasshopper
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If something is "afoot", other than what has been posted here, I am not aware of it, Duane. I am also somewhat surprized and taken aback to see you describe my replies to your PMs to me as "a barrage of PMs I got from 3ABN Defender".
I usually consider PMs private and confidential, but as you have brought them up here publicly and that may cause questions or concerns with others who you are posting to, I am perfectly willing to quote all in a thread here so that others can see what we both said.
Would you like me to do that? If so, just let me know.
3d
Go right ahead, if that's what you want to do. Threatening me will get you nowhere.
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ADMIN HAT ON
Really BAD idea, 3D!! I would expect you to know better than that. "PM" = Private Message. Here the operative word is PRIVATE.
ADMIN HAT OFF
If something is "afoot", other than what has been posted here, I am not aware of it, Duane. I am also somewhat surprized and taken aback to see you describe my replies to your PMs to me as "a barrage of PMs I got from 3ABN Defender".
I usually consider PMs private and confidential, but as you have brought them up here publicly and that may cause questions or concerns with others who you are posting to, I am perfectly willing to quote all in a thread here so that others can see what we both said.
Would you like me to do that? If so, just let me know.
3d
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I understand, Snoopy, but it really doesn't bother me at all. I said nothing I can't back up or am ashamed of. 3d apparently can't say the same.
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3D, I am afraid, I am going to have to disagree with your timing here. It was 3ABN's initial cryptic messages left on the website, etc. that alerted people to the issues going on with Linda. I didn't either Danny or Linda from a can of paint, but on BSDA we were a little taken aback at 3ABN's handing of the situation. They did it, as you stated without in details, but clearly placing fault with Linda. Danny came on BSDA initially with something none of us bought this was only days after they made their "annoucement". The discussions, with both sides, and forum came months later, after discussions were limited or cut off on other sites. It as a long time before Johann and defintely Derrell showed up at BSDA......in fact, I believe it was Melody who showed up first...............when her name(actually the subject of her and Derrell's divorce) was mentioned in a post(you all do get deep into folks personal business, don't you? LOL!!)......I guess they all were reading the psots ona regular basis, we got lots of quick responses......LOL!!!
What they should have done was played all taped shows, in the meantime, taking time to think before acting in anger for Danny's sake........never mind...water under the bridge now.....
Emma, thank you for your question. I am not sure if answering it in detail here is on topic or not. :) So, I will be brief. In looking at all and reading the very first posts and publicized announcements and letters. It is my opinion that 3abn initially gave no details and were in fact being criticized for not doing so. No one knew why Linda was no longer at 3abn or even what the problem was within the Shelton's marriage. IMO, that was all announced and made public by Linda, Darell Mundall, and Johann Thorvaldsson, and others, ( not by those who were alerted to problems and wanted to look at them) Linda adnd her friends were the ones doing "the alerting" - which in turn brought about the responses from Danny Shelton and 3abn, which in turn was used to justify the accusations by Linda and her friends that 3abn was publicly trashing her.
A friend is helping compile a timeline which demonstrates all of this, and includes the fliers handed out at campmeeting before Linda was even fired or divorced (fliers made by Johann, the DR, Linda's help, and Danny's ex son in law). The first article published by AToday revealing all from the perspective of "sources close to Linda" who were "speaking out" and referring to both Johann and Mundall, and Linda and her website registered in June of 2004 by Mundall- as sources. There is alot more... and many others also, in the small group who started all this publicity and ugliness, on CA, and then moving to BSDA and Maritime as a group to continue with their agenda to bring down both Danny Shelton and 3abn. When all the research is done, and documented, this will all be layed out and published online so all can see for themselves who the people were and what they did and said on Linda's behalf, and how they worked to orchestrate a campaign against 3abn with calls and emails to Churches and officials ect... Of course that can't be here, as this forum won't allow us to publish the identities of SSOM, Artiste, Sister, Watchbird or any of the others in the group, so that limits what I can say here. The other forum will do as one vehicle to finally reveal all as Linda has asked, and in fact demanded. Being that the lawsuit is over, It is past time, imo.
But, anyway the point is Danny Shelton was speaking in reaction to all that was being said about him imo, and in hindsight it may have been better for him not to have spoken in some instances, but it was a case of he and 3abn being found at fault and attacked when they didn't say something, and then found at fault and attacked when they did. NOT easy. Unfortunately and imo it is true that many have said things on both sides in all of this which shouldn't have been said, but as far as DS protesting too much goes? No I don't see it that way. Not, if all is examined and what he actually said, vs what it has been reported that he said is looked at. If one goes by only what Linda and her friends have claimed, well I understand it could look that way, for that's exactly what they were trying to make it look like.
I hope this answers your question somewhat.
3d
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3D, I am afraid, I am going to have to disagree with your timing here. It was 3ABN's initial cryptic messages left on the website, etc. that alerted people to the issues going on with Linda. I didn't either Danny or Linda from a can of paint, but on BSDA we were a little taken aback at 3ABN's handing of the situation. They did it, as you stated without in details, but clearly placing fault with Linda.
Thank you, Princessdi but I think it is likely you would agree that 3abn did have to say something, as she was gone. I'm sorry but you don't appear to know what 3abn's "initial" messages even were. The July 1, 2004 statement you refer to was posted in response to the May/June article on AToday which was published after interviewing sources close to Linda.
Here is all that 3abn actually said before it was all made public by 3abn's accusers.
I guess you could assume that 3abn was placing the fault with Linda, but it seems to me you could just as easily assume she had decided to go start her own ministry and there was no fault involved.
Statement Regarding Linda Shelton
Linda Shelton is on a leave of absence from Three Angels Broadcasting Network. Due to employee confidentiality, we cannot provide details on Mrs. Shelton's leave of absence. Danny Shelton continues in his role as president to oversee and manage 3ABN operations.
With the professional assistance of members of our board, our president, and the rest of the 3ABN leadership team, 3ABN will continue to deliver its message of faith and hope to its many viewers throughout the world.
Posted May 20, 2004.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040618234902/www.3abn.org/news/2004/06-linda-update.html
Statement Regarding Linda Shelton
Because of decisions Linda Shelton has made that have taken her in a different direction than that of the ministry, the Board of Directors of Three Angels Broadcasting Network (3ABN) regrets to say that she is no longer an employee of 3ABN.
Posted June 17, 2004.
3d
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Thank you, Princessdi but I think it is likely you would agree that 3abn did have to say something, as she was gone.
Linda Shelton was not "gone." Linda did not wander off from a nursing home during the night as an incompetent person might do. She was not suddenly "gone."
Linda Shelton was fired and thrown out on her ear -- based on trumped-up charges that never saw the light of day.
That's where you come in, 3ABN Defender. For every misleading label you seek to attach to Linda Shelton there will be other people ready to pull those labels off even faster. You will never succeed.
Little Grasshopper
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I guess you could assume that 3abn was placing the fault with Linda, but it seems to me you could just as easily assume she had decided to go start her own ministry and there was no fault involved.
3d
Please, just stop with this nonsense!
Little Grasshopper.
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You are correct, 3D, I was unaware of the first statement by 3ABN. However, it is still problematic, as Linda was on leave and Danny was not. Still shows their bias. They should have sat them both down until it was sorted out......as it appears Danny should not allowed to stay...........
However, their actions are stil a cause for concern. They wasted a lot of money retaping shows so that Danny didn't have to see her. That was the board acting out Danny's wishes, and not at all in the best interest of 3ABN.
Thank you, Princessdi but I think it is likely you would agree that 3abn did have to say something, as she was gone. I'm sorry but you don't appear to know what 3abn's "initial" messages even were. The July 1, 2004 statement you refer to was posted in response to the May/June article on AToday which was published after interviewing sources close to Linda.
Here is all that 3abn actually said before it was all made public by 3abn's accusers.
I guess you could assume that 3abn was placing the fault with Linda, but it seems to me you could just as easily assume she had decided to go start her own ministry and there was no fault involved.
Statement Regarding Linda Shelton
Linda Shelton is on a leave of absence from Three Angels Broadcasting Network. Due to employee confidentiality, we cannot provide details on Mrs. Shelton's leave of absence. Danny Shelton continues in his role as president to oversee and manage 3ABN operations.
With the professional assistance of members of our board, our president, and the rest of the 3ABN leadership team, 3ABN will continue to deliver its message of faith and hope to its many viewers throughout the world.
Posted May 20, 2004.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040618234902/www.3abn.org/news/2004/06-linda-update.html
Statement Regarding Linda Shelton
Because of decisions Linda Shelton has made that have taken her in a different direction than that of the ministry, the Board of Directors of Three Angels Broadcasting Network (3ABN) regrets to say that she is no longer an employee of 3ABN.
Posted June 17, 2004.
3d