Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Bob Pickle on April 06, 2010, 10:30:52 AM
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Would Tommy be better off if he did some sort of plea bargain, if he pled guilty, or if he pled innocent and fought it all?
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1. Depends on what the offer is. Some people are getting little time and others get alot of time in jail for same types of crimes.
2. Are there other charges to come from other victims in a different court=more jail time to come from other trials.
3. How old is defendant.
4. Is he guilty
5. Are the victims going to testify against him and can victims be discredited in some way.
6. If he goes to trial he MUST make sure that facts about 3ABN cannot be introduced which may substantially harm 3ABN. The very fact that the trial would be public may accomplish this.
7. How much money does he have to fight a jury trial and is he hiring a competent attorney and can he can afford him/her.
8. Did TS tell anyone he comitted the crimes whose is willing to testify that he stated so.
9. What have similiar crimes in that jurisidiciton resulted in for both pleas and trial.
10. Will the prosection subpoena DS for testimony=TS may be forced not to go to trial for this potentially damaging testimony against DS, 3ABN and TS and others.
The steps will be interesting to watch. :wave:
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I've said it before and will say it again - if he is any kind of man he will stand up and take his punishment for the crimes he committed. No plea bargains. Those children should not have to face him in court and relive the murder of who they would have been had they not met TS. That is unless they want to face him and then it could be done in a less public forum. There is no other side of the story or excuse for what he did. There are just too many victims over the years for there to be any circumstances where he would be not guilty. I don't think these boys who had the nerve to go to the police, at different times, would do so without cause. Just because he got away with this for years and had no charges pressed, it does not make him not guilty. If they were the first two who came forward then there might need to be a trial, depending on the evidence but he has left a string of ruined lives and needs to stand up and confess to all. Just my opinion and I don't want to hear about how I don't know what I am talking about because I don't know what is really going on. Save it for someone who might care.
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I've said it before and will say it again - if he is any kind of man he will stand up and take his punishment for the crimes he committed. No plea bargains. Those children should not have to face him in court and relive the murder of who they would have been had they not met TS. That is unless they want to face him and then it could be done in a less public forum. There is no other side of the story or excuse for what he did. There are just too many victims over the years for there to be any circumstances where he would be not guilty. I don't think these boys who had the nerve to go to the police, at different times, would do so without cause. Just because he got away with this for years and had no charges pressed, it does not make him not guilty. If they were the first two who came forward then there might need to be a trial, depending on the evidence but he has left a string of ruined lives and needs to stand up and confess to all. Just my opinion and I don't want to hear about how I don't know what I am talking about because I don't know what is really going on. Save it for someone who might care.
No, GRAT, you have some good points. You are correct, he should plead guilty to what he has committed. If he pleads not guilty when he actually IS guilty, that's not going to show much remorse or repentance, and is lying on top of that.
There is no way I can be made to believe that he isn't guilty of the charges in Virginia. The stories are too similar to what happened to me and other victims I have spoken to.
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"Child molesters roughed up in prison?" (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=18502)
Someone told me that Tommy could end up with a nicer situation in jail if he plea bargains. Anyone know if that is true?
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I listened to the head of the US Olympic Swim Team on Friday nite, and he was incredulous that he should apologize to the victims of the coaches who had been molested. I thought to myself, that he sounded like Tommy.... blaming the victims..
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"Child molesters roughed up in prison?" (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=18502)
Someone told me that Tommy could end up with a nicer situation in jail if he plea bargains. Anyone know if that is true?
The thread above mentioned an inmate who had been convicted of killing two kids, and who had boiling water poured on him by another inmate. I think such behavior in prisons is wrong, wicked, and evil. We live in an evil world.
Another thread out there: "Is it true molesters get beaten in prison?" (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090214221128AAvA7F0)
Does Tommy think he has any possibility at all of being convicted? What safeguards do Virginia prisons have to prevent these kinds of things from happening?
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From what my husband says, I don't think there is much protection for child molestors. They are put in with the general population. Since quite a few of those in prison were molested as children, they hate child molestors. They rank below murderers and rapists.
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Years ago, we went to a Christian Educator's seminar for Christian school workers. They showed a movie depicting what could happen if your church was sued for opening a school. In the film, the attorney got the Christian school teacher to contradict her own statements and he even made her cry on the stand.
On the way home, Tommy made the comment that just watching that scene made him extremely nervous since he had faced the first round of accusations just a couple years prior. He needs to stop and realize that if he pleads not guilty, he's going to face a lot worse than what we saw on the screen that night.
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An irrelevant question as Tommy and Danny have spent their entire lives trying to bail "poor Tommy" out of one mess or another...remember the Love Gift when he was in Virginia? The family history is replete with "push it under the rug" And now Danny is hard at it again...protecting Tommy from Tommy!!!
Personally, I would recommend he fight every inch of the way...keeps it in the news for a while. And, who knows, he may be able to beat it yet again...enough money and the right prodding of the victims and one never knows what may be the result. On the other hand, a good book deal for the victims would be very interesting!!! You could title it:
"The Dirtied Two Dozen...or more, one pastors very unique evangelical efforts".
Gaion Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Tommy Shelton Vindicated! - BlackSDA
If you mention my name in any of the letters and emails you're sending to anyone in your latest attack on Tommy Shelton, you WILL regret it. ...
www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic...
I found this on Google. I have tried to find it on BlackSDA but my search gave no results
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Tommy Shelton Vindicated! - BlackSDA
If you mention my name in any of the letters and emails you're sending to anyone in your latest attack on Tommy Shelton, you WILL regret it. ...
www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic...
I found this on Google. I have tried to find it on BlackSDA but my search gave no results
Johann, the quote you found on Google is found here in the OP by Pickle on BSDA titled Tommy Shelton Vindicated!
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11955&st=0&p=166627&hl=Tommy%20Shelton%20Vindicated&fromsearch=1&#entry166627
Although I don't have time to read through the entire thread, it is my recollection that this was an excerpt of a PM to Bob by Duane Clem, before he was ready to go public as one of Tommy's alleged victims. I’m sure Duane can corroborate this if I am correct or clarify if I am not.
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Tommy Shelton Vindicated! - BlackSDA
If you mention my name in any of the letters and emails you're sending to anyone in your latest attack on Tommy Shelton, you WILL regret it. ...
www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic...
I found this on Google. I have tried to find it on BlackSDA but my search gave no results
Johann, the quote you found on Google is found here in the OP by Pickle on BSDA titled Tommy Shelton Vindicated!
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11955&st=0&p=166627&hl=Tommy%20Shelton%20Vindicated&fromsearch=1&#entry166627
Although I don't have time to read through the entire thread, it is my recollection that this was an excerpt of a PM to Bob by Duane Clem, before he was ready to go public as one of Tommy's alleged victims. I’m sure Duane can corroborate this if I am correct or clarify if I am not.
That was an email to the meddler, gossip, busybody and liar Glenn Dryden shortly before I went public.
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:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Tommy Shelton Vindicated! - BlackSDA
If you mention my name in any of the letters and emails you're sending to anyone in your latest attack on Tommy Shelton, you WILL regret it. ...
www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic...
I found this on Google. I have tried to find it on BlackSDA but my search gave no results
Johann, the quote you found on Google is found here in the OP by Pickle on BSDA titled Tommy Shelton Vindicated!
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11955&st=0&p=166627&hl=Tommy%20Shelton%20Vindicated&fromsearch=1&#entry166627
Although I don't have time to read through the entire thread, it is my recollection that this was an excerpt of a PM to Bob by Duane Clem, before he was ready to go public as one of Tommy's alleged victims. I’m sure Duane can corroborate this if I am correct or clarify if I am not.
That was an email to the meddler, gossip, busybody and liar Glenn Dryden shortly before I went public.
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Tommy Shelton Vindicated! - BlackSDA
If you mention my name in any of the letters and emails you're sending to anyone in your latest attack on Tommy Shelton, you WILL regret it. ...
www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic...
I found this on Google. I have tried to find it on BlackSDA but my search gave no results
Johann, the quote you found on Google is found here in the OP by Pickle on BSDA titled Tommy Shelton Vindicated!
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11955&st=0&p=166627&hl=Tommy%20Shelton%20Vindicated&fromsearch=1&#entry166627
Although I don't have time to read through the entire thread, it is my recollection that this was an excerpt of a PM to Bob by Duane Clem, before he was ready to go public as one of Tommy's alleged victims. I’m sure Duane can corroborate this if I am correct or clarify if I am not.
That was an email to the meddler, gossip, busybody and liar Glenn Dryden shortly before I went public.
Thanks for clarifying, Duane… I worded my response to Johann poorly. That was contained in the PM you sent to Bob but I knew they were your words to Dryden while Bob was encouraging you to go public.
Far too many blur the lines between sexual abuse and sexual identity. Abuse is a crime and sexual identity is a state of being. When I was sexually abused by relatives it didn’t make me an incestuous child, it made me a victim of sexual abuse. When a married youth pastor tried to sexually abuse me and only succeeded in kissing me, it didn’t make an adulterous woman, it made me a victim of sexual abuse. When a pastor manipulates a female member into a sexual relationship it doesn’t make her a heterosexual adulteress, it makes her a victim of pastoral sexual abuse. When a pastor manipulates a young man into a sexual relationship it doesn’t make him a homosexual adulterer, it makes him a victim of pastoral sexual abuse. Some may not accept this, but the majority of people do realize the difference between the two.
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:goodpost: Very good points.
Tommy Shelton Vindicated! - BlackSDA
If you mention my name in any of the letters and emails you're sending to anyone in your latest attack on Tommy Shelton, you WILL regret it. ...
www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic...
I found this on Google. I have tried to find it on BlackSDA but my search gave no results
Johann, the quote you found on Google is found here in the OP by Pickle on BSDA titled Tommy Shelton Vindicated!
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11955&st=0&p=166627&hl=Tommy%20Shelton%20Vindicated&fromsearch=1&#entry166627
Although I don't have time to read through the entire thread, it is my recollection that this was an excerpt of a PM to Bob by Duane Clem, before he was ready to go public as one of Tommy's alleged victims. I’m sure Duane can corroborate this if I am correct or clarify if I am not.
That was an email to the meddler, gossip, busybody and liar Glenn Dryden shortly before I went public.
Thanks for clarifying, Duane… I worded my response to Johann poorly. That was contained in the PM you sent to Bob but I knew they were your words to Dryden while Bob was encouraging you to go public.
Far too many blur the lines between sexual abuse and sexual identity. Abuse is a crime and sexual identity is a state of being. When I was sexually abused by relatives it didn’t make me an incestuous child, it made me a victim of sexual abuse. When a married youth pastor tried to sexually abuse me and only succeeded in kissing me, it didn’t make an adulterous woman, it made me a victim of sexual abuse. When a pastor manipulates a female member into a sexual relationship it doesn’t make her a heterosexual adulteress, it makes her a victim of pastoral sexual abuse. When a pastor manipulates a young man into a sexual relationship it doesn’t make him a homosexual adulterer, it makes him a victim of pastoral sexual abuse. Some may not accept this, but the majority of people do realize the difference between the two.
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When I tried to find information on Tommy Shelton on BlackSDA, I was told that he was NO longer discussed on that site. Period
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Legal action was threatened against BlackSDA some time ago, and after that, the 3ABN discussion was closed.
However I think everything is still available for reading if you wish.
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Legal action was threatened against BlackSDA some time ago, and after that, the 3ABN discussion was closed.
However I think everything is still available for reading if you wish.
It is still available for reading under The Café, just click on 3ABN.
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Far too many blur the lines between sexual abuse and sexual identity. Abuse is a crime and sexual identity is a state of being. When I was sexually abused by relatives it didn’t make me an incestuous child, it made me a victim of sexual abuse. When a married youth pastor tried to sexually abuse me and only succeeded in kissing me, it didn’t make an adulterous woman, it made me a victim of sexual abuse. When a pastor manipulates a female member into a sexual relationship it doesn’t make her a heterosexual adulteress, it makes her a victim of pastoral sexual abuse. When a pastor manipulates a young man into a sexual relationship it doesn’t make him a homosexual adulterer, it makes him a victim of pastoral sexual abuse. Some may not accept this, but the majority of people do realize the difference between the two.
Where we live there is an official campaign going on to protect minors against sexual offenders. In the media all are encouraged to buy special small flashlights as symbols of openness in this matter.
It seems like posters on another site are claiming that Bob and Gailon are the people who have turned on the light in this particular case, and there would not have been a case if they had not brought it into the light. In the past both society and religious denominations have tried to keep all such occurrences in the dark. Today this is regarded as an ugly scar on the followers of Jesus Christ. Lights should be turned on to protect our children from this evil.
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It is no longer discussed there. However, Calvin kept as a closed subforum under the Cafe. You can search there for information.
When I tried to find information on Tommy Shelton on BlackSDA, I was told that he was NO longer discussed on that site. Period
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Thanks for the information :rabbit:
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What is said about confession?
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
James 5:16
Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
Mark 1:5
Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.
Proverbs 28:13
He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.
Psalm 32:5
I acknowledged my sin to You,And my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah
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What is said about confession?
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
James 5:16
Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
Mark 1:5
Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.
Proverbs 28:13
He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.
Psalm 32:5
I acknowledged my sin to You,And my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah
If a person pleads "guilty" - what should we do?
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Hmmm, if they plead guilty hoping that mercy is shown then--- what will they do?? Maybe it depends on sane or insane?? I believe child molesters are insane with being devil possessed. so then I guess that is why we have more then one head for jurys to decide. They no doubt should be institutionalized. Can money buy him out? Will he be put back amongst children? What a family!! Just think how much could have been spared including TS himself if the "family" would have done the right thing when first they knew. It's like letting a child get away with all evil and then wonder why they can't do right when grown. Now it appears even his own mother knew and wanted mercy if TS would move away.....
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If Tommy's mother knew, it makes me wonder, if Tommy's father was also wasn't a molestor. Like I said before, this is a "gift that keeps on giving". But it needs to stop. His mother should have stopped it with Tommy, unless she was afraid of Tommy's father, Danny or Tommy. The wife/mother is often so abused she is afraid of telling. Obviously, this was a family wide coverup, someone- aunt, uncle, grandparent, niece, cousin, surely you would think someone told someone like a teacher or counselor that the abuse was going on and they kept it to themselves.
A lot of cover-up. Did Linda know about it too, and keep quiet?
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If Tommy's mother knew, it makes me wonder, if Tommy's father was also wasn't a molestor. Like I said before, this is a "gift that keeps on giving". But it needs to stop. His mother should have stopped it with Tommy, unless she was afraid of Tommy's father, Danny or Tommy. The wife/mother is often so abused she is afraid of telling. Obviously, this was a family wide coverup, someone- aunt, uncle, grandparent, niece, cousin, surely you would think someone told someone like a teacher or counselor that the abuse was going on and they kept it to themselves.
A lot of cover-up. Did Linda know about it too, and keep quiet?
Wow. A lot of speculation and assumption there. Honestly, I think it's unfair to indict the whole family, especially those who are no longer around to defend themselves.
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Although Duane, if much of the family knew of the problem 25 years ago and more is it possible that lots of pain, confusion and misery could have been avoided had they done the right thing back then? Perhaps the two boys who have filed in Virginia would never have been in a position to file had something been done long before that? Is it possible that lives that have been badly altered or destroyed could have been normal if they had either done something or allowed the process to take place without interferance?
If Tommy's mother knew, it makes me wonder, if Tommy's father was also wasn't a molestor. Like I said before, this is a "gift that keeps on giving". But it needs to stop. His mother should have stopped it with Tommy, unless she was afraid of Tommy's father, Danny or Tommy. The wife/mother is often so abused she is afraid of telling. Obviously, this was a family wide coverup, someone- aunt, uncle, grandparent, niece, cousin, surely you would think someone told someone like a teacher or counselor that the abuse was going on and they kept it to themselves.
A lot of cover-up. Did Linda know about it too, and keep quiet?
Wow. A lot of speculation and assumption there. Honestly, I think it's unfair to indict the whole family, especially those who are no longer around to defend themselves.
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A lot of cover-up. Did Linda know about it too, and keep quiet?
I would not be able to factually state that other then what has been posted on here.
It seems she sorta supposed or thought he might have different tendencies but did not know he used them. But the fact is that he must have used them. I imagine that she was in a pretty hard place and sometimes it takes quite a while to realize what your into...with a marriage. Something else I thought about is that I do not feel that LS could be so inspired to present her part and inspire others as she did with that much evil in her own mind and covering it. I do not think some of this would have happened with her if she went along with the trend once she started to realize and it could have been very hard on her for the trial she was going through with no support from DS. Now this is just an opinion from just over several years of reading posts. No way to know the truth about that unless she states it and DS has bound her up with legality that she cannot speak.
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Wow. A lot of speculation and assumption there. Honestly, I think it's unfair to indict the whole family, especially those who are no longer around to defend themselves.
Well said, Duane. I hope the time is approaching when "speculation and assumption" must cease. And that we can leave the matter in the hands of an honest judge to mete out justice, possibly much milder because of the plea. An admission, even of the inevitable, should be an advantage and help get this matter to a conclusion where there is no reason to be discussing, assuming, and speculating any more.
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Interesting post, Johann.
How does one determine the difference here and elsewhere between fact and speculation?
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Although Duane, if much of the family knew of the problem 25 years ago and more is it possible that lots of pain, confusion and misery could have been avoided had they done the right thing back then? Perhaps the two boys who have filed in Virginia would never have been in a position to file had something been done long before that? Is it possible that lives that have been badly altered or destroyed could have been normal if they had either done something or allowed the process to take place without interferance?
Oh, I agree. I'm talking about the suggestion that Tommy may have been abused by his father. I think that's unfair.
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Oh, I agree. I'm talking about the suggestion that Tommy may have been abused by his father. I think that's unfair.
Who has Tommy claimed abused him?
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Ok, yes. I agree.
Although Duane, if much of the family knew of the problem 25 years ago and more is it possible that lots of pain, confusion and misery could have been avoided had they done the right thing back then? Perhaps the two boys who have filed in Virginia would never have been in a position to file had something been done long before that? Is it possible that lives that have been badly altered or destroyed could have been normal if they had either done something or allowed the process to take place without interferance?
Oh, I agree. I'm talking about the suggestion that Tommy may have been abused by his father. I think that's unfair.
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To be honest, whether or not he pleads guilty isn't going to fix the mess that he has caused. What TS needs to do is turn from his wicked ways and find GOD. I honestly believe that TS has been blessed by God, with many gifts. However, he took advantage of the abilities God gave him.
Tommy needs to pay for his actions. Any man of God, who uses the pulpit as a crutch to hurt children, in my opinion is not a man of God, nor a Christian.