Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Artiste on April 21, 2010, 05:02:20 PM
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It was brought to my attention that the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists is not allowing the Adventist Today journal to "stock, sell, promote, or advertise" the book Fatal Accounts: The Audacity of an Adventist Auditor's Quest for Transparency by David Dennis, at the 2010 General Conference session in Atlanta, Georgia.
I agree with the general concept of not airing one's dirty laundry in public.
However, in looking over some of the David Dennis materials, I was struck by a startling similarity to some of the things discussed on Advent Talk Forum.
For instance, I ran across this sentence in "An Open Letter" addressed to Dr. Jan Paulsen, General Conference President from David Dennis dated October 30, 2001.
With the help of millions of tithe dollars the GC repeatedly delayed the judicial process and blocked the discovery phase to keep from us documents we had requested showing to some degree the depth of corruption within the leadership of our church.
And then further on down:
At my hearing the group was carefully chosen for the “kangaroo court” without my input and I was denied the presence of an attorney.
(Does this remind anyone of Linda Shelton's experience?)
I had pointed to some of the same personal business ventures in which Folkenberg and his close friends were involved, such as the personal deals with ADRA concerning the computer sales...
Sounds reminiscent of Danny Shelton's book deals.
And finally,
Contrary to the charges leveled at me, I have been faithful to my marriage vows. I have not been guilty, as publicly charged, of sexual misconduct. I read a statement to the GC Committee, declaring unequivocally my innocence of the charges Folkenberg had brought. After reading the statement, which the executioners chose to totally ignore, I was ushered from the committee room. I was not allowed to answer, nor even hear, the eloquent and lengthy presentations of Folkenberg’s chosen hatchet men.
Linda Shelton, again!
I am wondering if the reason the Seventh-day Adventist Church leadership has been so hesitant to take action to limit its relationship with 3ABN is that the two entities are much closer in principle than anyone would have thought!
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That is how it appears! Sure is a sick feeling in the pit. Read about the future of SDA seemingly to decline many times and now it makes a beliver out of you. Seems like it is almost time to head for the hills. Any thing to stop the creeping up of"Omega" that is too hard to see or witness.
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That is how it appears! Sure is a sick feeling in the pit. Read about the future of SDA seemingly to decline many times and now it makes a beliver out of you. Seems like it is almost time to head for the hills. Any thing to stop the creeping up of"Omega" that is too hard to see or witness.
The church does appear about to fall. It looks depressing and hopeless. Jesus also declares in Revelation 3:16 that He is about to spit us out. Grave words but good news follows...be zealous therefore and repent. He wouldn't have told us to repent if it weren't possible. What a disgrace and shame these issues bring to the name of Jesus and His bride. May I be willing to acknowledge where "Omega" is in me that Jesus may have His pure bride and not just an on and off again girlfriend.
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The church does appear about to fall.
Do you think so?
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The church does appear about to fall.
Do you think so?
Is the church's handling (or non-handling) of the 3ABN situation one of the things that makes it appear about to fall?
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Well it does appear to be a very large scale that has fingers reaching into all and so many things with the 3abn at the top of the list.
Also I was so excited about finally SDA would have their own channel and now am in shock at what I am seeing. It almost appears it is being used to promote all that is against SP and everything goes, but then is that what Adventist's want because of "new change era"? I know a church where it is called SDA but people that go there want to wear jewelry, have band, drums, and charismatic movement and call it the contemporary worship hour. To me it is so bad that I do not feel to contribute tithe that is divided by the whole Conference any longer to assist them or their schools. The conference knows this so what is the use? What happens when you bring people into this false situation? Then there is no longer camp meetings and who cares as it was a waste of more tithe money. It is all going for nothing. I am fed up with it. We now try to do things on an individual basis with friends, neighbors and do what we can for the sake of Jesus outside the church. Hoping when the time comes their choice will be for the right things according to God. I do not feel the church should take in new short term members in it's condition. Why do they allow "Hope" to do what they are doing? Why don't they stand up against the 3abn situation. Why are the best all around evangelists mingling with the saga's that are on record for proof of criminal actions and yet to be discovered where the funds are? Should that have been such a problem to show if innocent of squandering instead of having lawyers fight to keep everthing under lock and key and excelling in assets from public funds? and some come up with a stupid answer about the IRS and their proof of innocence? That is total insult of Intelligence. Yes, these are the actions that give the appearances on a "world wide view". a fact is this --the sympathizers will pay the same price in the end as the ones who actually "misused the funds".
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"The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine" 2 Timothy 4:3. That time has fully come. The multitudes do not want Bible truth, because it interferes with the desires of the sinful, world-loving heart; and Satan supplies the deceptions which they love.
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The church does appear about to fall.
Do you think so?
Is the church's handling (or non-handling) of the 3ABN situation one of the things that makes it appear about to fall?
Absolutely. 3ABN is just one example of "non-handling" that leads to this appearance. The problem is greater than just the leadership. People don't vote to remove people from office that are just like them. The change needs to happen at the heart level in the local churches. It also takes spiritual discernment to know and practice truth. How many in our churches truly know, love and practice truth? The Bible says, few...
RBF
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It was brought to my attention that the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists is not allowing the Adventist Today journal to "stock, sell, promote, or advertise" the book Fatal Accounts: The Audacity of an Adventist Auditor's Quest for Transparency by David Dennis, at the 2010 General Conference session in Atlanta, Georgia.
I agree with the general concept of not airing one's dirty laundry in public.
However, in looking over some of the David Dennis materials, I was struck by a startling similarity to some of the things discussed on Advent Talk Forum.
For instance, I ran across this sentence in "An Open Letter" addressed to Dr. Jan Paulsen, General Conference President from David Dennis dated October 30, 2001.
With the help of millions of tithe dollars the GC repeatedly delayed the judicial process and blocked the discovery phase to keep from us documents we had requested showing to some degree the depth of corruption within the leadership of our church.
And then further on down:
At my hearing the group was carefully chosen for the “kangaroo court” without my input and I was denied the presence of an attorney.
(Does this remind anyone of Linda Shelton's experience?)
I had pointed to some of the same personal business ventures in which Folkenberg and his close friends were involved, such as the personal deals with ADRA concerning the computer sales...
Sounds reminiscent of Danny Shelton's book deals.
And finally,
Contrary to the charges leveled at me, I have been faithful to my marriage vows. I have not been guilty, as publicly charged, of sexual misconduct. I read a statement to the GC Committee, declaring unequivocally my innocence of the charges Folkenberg had brought. After reading the statement, which the executioners chose to totally ignore, I was ushered from the committee room. I was not allowed to answer, nor even hear, the eloquent and lengthy presentations of Folkenberg’s chosen hatchet men.
Linda Shelton, again!
I am wondering if the reason the Seventh-day Adventist Church leadership has been so hesitant to take action to limit its relationship with 3ABN is that the two entities are much closer in principle than anyone would have thought!
David Dennis was at the Adventist Today booth at the last General Conference Session 2005 where he signed copies of his book.
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I wonder why it won't be allowed this year.
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If it was allowed in 2005, which it obviously was, then I am also wondering why it won't be allowed in 2010?
What happened between 2005 and 2010?
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Are we sure that it is the same book and author?
Perhaps there was something similar in 2005 that looked like this one.
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I started thinking about it and looked back at the announcement that Adventist Today had put out on March 3, 2010 about not being able to make it available for the Atlanta session this year because the GC told them that they could not exhibit if they did not comply.
It appears that the book came out in 2009.
I then looked at some past SDA forum Topix comments in 2009 and saw this one:
I have just received my copy of Fatal Accounts from Adventist Today and could not believe my eyes when I read about the wholesale corruption in the church. What else are they hiding? Can we still trust the so-called "leaders"?
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Now I see this comment also from the same forum in 2009:
If the statements of Dennis is not true e.g. the evil deeds of 3ABN president, Gilley, they will probably sue him soon.
Does anyone know what the David Dennis' book says about Jim Gilley?
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David Dennis was at the Adventist Today booth at the last General Conference Session 2005 where he signed copies of his book.
Johann, are you sure it was David Dennis?
Does anyone know what the David Dennis' book says about Jim Gilley?
I don't have a copy of the book, but a draft included this:
While my case was still in Court the General Conference appointed a known adulterer, James Gilley, as an officer of the North American church.
That accusation sheds a little light on Gailon's release about Gilley becoming 3ABN president: http://www.save-3abn.com/news-releases-jim-gilley-new-president-08-31-07.htm (http://www.save-3abn.com/news-releases-jim-gilley-new-president-08-31-07.htm).
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Makes me want to buy the book. I guess I wouldn't have noticed except for the announcement. But that's how it is when so called religious people try to cover things up. Makes it more interesting and actually gives it the publicity they are trying to avoid.
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David Dennis was at the Adventist Today booth at the last General Conference Session 2005 where he signed copies of his book.
Johann, are you sure it was David Dennis?
No, I'm not sure. There were many similarities in the story of a man I met there in 2005.
The attached book is the experience of a dentist with a SDA Trust Service. The publication entitled Truth Decay by Dr. Albert Koppel, D.D.S. is being posted on this website free of charge. If you desire hard copies for yourself or your friends please sent $5.95 each plus $ 2.00 for shipping and handling to : . . .
http://www.advmca.org/truth_decay.html
This is the dentist who signed his books in 2005.
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That was also one of the books they were forbidden to bring to the GC session this year, Johann! See below--
ADVENTIST TODAY WILL NOT DISPLAY THREE BOOKS AT GC SESSION
Posted March 3rd, 2010 by News Staff
Adventist Today received a letter from the General Conference official responsible for the administration of the 2010 Seventh-day Adventist General Conference session in Atlanta, Georgia asking that Adventist Today not "stock, sell, promote, or advertise" three books at its booth during the week of the Atlanta General Conference session.
These three books are (1) Fatal Accounts: The Audacity of an Adventist Auditor's Quest for Transparency by David Dennis, (2) Truth Decay: A Call for Accountability and Transparency in the Adventist Church by Albert C. Koppel, DDS, and, (3) Who Watches? Who Cares: Misadventures in Stewardship by Douglas Hackleman.
The letter asked that Adventist Today withdraw as an exhibitor should it be unwilling to comply with the request. After careful deliberation, the Executive Committee of the Adventist Foundation Board decided that it would accede and not display these three books at its booth during the GC session.
These books are available for purchase in our store or by calling 1-800-236-3641.
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Or here:
http://www.advmca.org/
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David Dennis will be speaking at the Tierrasanta SDA Church in San Diego on May 8. Wish I didn't live about 1000 miles north of there.
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I just read the book "Fatal Accounts". Now I know why the GC doesn't want Adventist Today to "stock, sell, promote, or advertise" this book at its booth during the week of the Atlanta General Conference session. But there is nothing to keep you from getting it now.
I read it in one sitting. It is a relatively thin book and I couldn't put it down until I finished.
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I'm about afraid to ask the outcome. What is your account of it? Don't have the book.
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Do people know when they have crossed the line from ministry to career, from from seeking the lost to seeking their dollars, from spreading the gospel to increasing membership, from caring for individuals to caring for the church?
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Tinka, All I'm going to say is you would have to read it for yourself to believe it! I don't think the ending has been written yet.
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childoftheking,
Would you consider this book written with facts? I'll have to scroll back and see the link where to get it.
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The book was written from David Dennis's point of view as he saw things. However because of his job and lawsuit he was in a position to know church politics and policy. It is amazing to me that he is still a faithful supporter of the church both by his words, his actions and financially.
George, I hear what you are saying. I'm sure they can convince themselves that they have the greater good at heart and that those who point out wrongs are trouble makers out to bring down the church. It is part of the gospel of prosperity. If you are in favor with the church and are prospering financially your brethren can surely see that you must be a good and admirable person and must be doing God's work.
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childoftheking,
Thank you much for that explanation of Dennis. I can now fully relate to him being still faithful after his knowledge of inner situations. We also know that this message is truth no matter what and had similar situations. But you cannot turn your back once you are a true believer. At least some cannot. So that says a lot about him. I will be getting the book. If it is basically what I think it only substanciates what EGW saw with tears running down on what would happen to the SDA people as the "Omega" of the church sets in.
I guess it all melts down to the summary of one of her statements. "Once you had the truth, what will do you with it"? or Will you just let it pass you by.
I think the most amzaing thing is that most Adventist believe some of it as they take on baptism but they just can't follow through or walk it as self gets in the way. and of course most do the basics and lack a lot of common sense understanding how getting into the "inspirational" writings of finer details as a lot of the Testamonies are addressing different situations for different people. Probably the best physcology books one can ever read.
Of course I cannot blame them entirely because most people early in their walk in this day do not have much time to do this as a lot have to survive with much work and families to take care of. I am not sure I would have done all the reading with the schedule I had in life but surgery and great back trouble caused me to be flat on my back for many times and I decided to make use of it. So I hardly let one word of it get by. Finally the back trouble went and was tremendously glad for the time spent. I found I made a lot of mistakes and things might have gone better is I just would have done this early in life even if I was 5th generation. The kind of person I am is that eventually I had to find out why I was an SDA (smile). So I still make mistakes but am aware and very sad when I do. It is quite ironic but my birth name was Dennis.
Thanks again