Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Johann on June 03, 2010, 02:28:19 PM
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On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Arild Abrahamsen - - - wrote:
Hello Pastor Mark,
You may remember meeting me at the 2004 3ABN Campmeeting. Myself, Dr. Arild Abrahamsen, and Pastor Johann Thorvalsson were there to attend the Campmeeting and to also seek an audience with some of the Board members. As you may recall, while you and I were in the parking lot talking, Danny Shelton drove up threatening to have me removed by the police if I came back, and put in jail. His purpose in doing this was very clear. He did not want to be exposed for his horrific actions against his wife, Linda, trumping up false charges against her and ultimately getting her fired from her 20 year position at 3ABN.
The reason I am writing is because I have been so burdened with the above action, and more. I cannot let it rest until I confront you with the burden and receive your response to the matter. As you know, Alyssa, Linda's daughter came forward in 2004, making known the unwelcome sexual advances of her stepfather, Danny Shelton. This was a difficult thing for a young girl to do. She specified that she only wanted it to be shared with church officials so that it could be dealt with in a proper and Christian manner. Pastor Thorvalsson tried to do just that. It is my understanding that this matter came to your attention. Yet Alyssa was never contacted. The matter was dropped. (Sadly, Alyssa is attending the Methodist Church at this time.)
It appears to me that as a Vice-President of our beloved Church that high profile problems should be dealt with in a more firm and judicious way. Sweeping them under the rug will just delay the lurking public "explosion." I understand that 3ABN is not under the control of the General Conference in one way. But in another way it is. 3ABN's governing Board of Directors and leadership consists of Seventh day Adventists. In order for them to maintain a membership in good status, they must function a certain way consistant with our beliefs. Throwing away a wife of twenty years and marrying a woman half his age who's vocation is that of a nude dancer is not what I call "holding up the standard." Then in a matter of a couple years Brandy files for divorce. Additionally, making inappropriate advances to a stepdaughter also does not fall under the standards of our Church. And the list goes on. It appears that the real story of what occurred six years ago is that a very visible televangelist fathered a child with a young woman. When the mother of the child began to pressure him the televangelist began circulating lies about his wife, he manipulated events to get her fired and then he made continued efforts to keep her out of the public eye to hide the lies of the corporation. Then the Church turned a blind eye to these events...perhaps because of the benefits obtained from exposure on a worldwide satellite station?
I realize that you are good friends with Walt Thompson and that you listened to "his version" of the events that occurred. But are you aware that Walt Thompson performed an abortion on his own daughter? Are you aware that she committed suicide a short time after this abortion? He doesn't sound like a great source to obtain information to me.
Pastor Mark, it is not too late to correct the mistakes of the past. You have made the statement that you believe Danny misused your name and reputation in his claims against Linda. You have also made the statement that you believe Linda is innocent to Pastor Thorvalsson by phone. This poor woman has suffered incredibly at the hands of Danny Shelton and 3ABN. Letters smearing her reputation were sent to 180,000 people. Very many individual letters containing slanderous statements were also sent to those who sent inquiries. Out and out lies were told about her and me. People who called the ministry were told "Linda left with another man." Even the present administration is still putting out the same slanderous statements. Several times when Linda has received an invitation to a SDA event 3ABN representatives call to try to have her appearance canceled. Threats are made about their programs being removed from 3ABN and also them losing ASI donations just for using Linda Shelton in a service. It is the most despicable behavior of so called "Adventists" that I have ever witnessed in my life! Linda's very effective ministry has been destroyed at the hand of "Adventists." The inaction of the Church at large quietly endorses the actions of these alien "Adventists." I would like to challenge you to do the right thing regarding this situation now. The Washington Post, as well as national media services, has already erupted with the arrest of Tommy Shelton. I believe this is just the beginning of the boiling volcano. Your voice is needed now to correct a great wrong which has been done and perhaps stay the coming public disaster. I feel, if help cannot be obtained from you and the leadership of the Seventh day Adventist Church, that I must seek avenues to correct the errors at this time.
I look forward to your response to this matter.
Sincerely,
Dr. Arild Abrahamsen,MD
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From: Finley, Mark - - -
Sendt: 25. March 2010 19:05
To: Arild Abrahamsen
Subject: Letter
Dear Arild,
This morning I received your e-mail and reviewed it carefully. While I fully recognize that this unfortunate situation has brought significant pain to a number of people, I note a number of inaccuracies in the assumptions you have made. Some certainly do not harmonize with the facts as I understand them.
In any of my previous contacts with both parties I attempted to bring healing to a very heartbreaking set of circumstances. After a short period of time it became evident that due to prevailing attitudes in the marriage my efforts were in vain. It was not possible to provide the help I had hoped to offer.
While I am always open and willing to provide Godly, Christ-centered counseling and support, I see little I can do in this situation. If you still desire to pursue a solution you should turn elsewhere.
Sincerely in Christ,
Mark Finley
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March 26, 2010
Hello Pastor Mark,
Thank you for your response. I appreciate the opportunity to finally correct the errors you may have been told about the situation. It is not counseling that is needed for this situation, it is ACTION on the GC level. I realize that this is a very difficult situation, but as members we are taught to turn to our leadership in these situations. Wnere else is there to turn?
What inaccuracies do you see in my letter? Please give me the opportunity to address them.
I am aware you briefly spoke to Linda twice before the divorce. The issues I am mainly addressing here have much to do with what followed the divorce.
If one cannot discuss errors and difficulties with a Vice-President of our beloved Church, who can we talk to?
Sincerely,
Dr. Arild Abrahamsen
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A person has to be really really stupid or they are trying to ignore the issues by changing the subject if they read the first email from Dr. A and think he is talking about marriage counseling!!
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It's been 2 1/2 mos, is this all, Johann?
Pastor Finley was entirely too kind when he said "I note a number of inaccuracies in the assumptions you have made. Some certainly do not harmonize with the facts as I understand them." I myself would have said "Somebody has been filling your ear, because this is a pack of lies from beginning to end"
I do agree with Finley answering his threat of "if help cannot be obtained from you and the leadership of the Seventh day Adventist Church, that I must seek avenues to correct the errors at this time." with "If you still desire to pursue a solution you should turn elsewhere." You can't reason with the unreasonable, this whole fiasco has proved that, and still is.
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So where do you all go from here? Is there a President to go to? Or to a Consul? Or to the Media? What choices to you have? With Linda unable to talk, is Brandy also under a vow of "silence" too? Maybe she took up someone else because she learned what DS was really like and Alyssa wasn't lying after all.
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mrst53,
This is unbeliveable but again probably correct, I more then ever believe Alyssia after this. DS and a stripper dancer called Brandy. Wow, Wow, Wow, :ROFL: What is he looking for --cause it sure ain't love. I am speechless. and sympathizers and protectors come on here. You know what is really bad is that the 3abn ers gave her such a write up. They lied or were tied!
How many "pilots" we got in the SDA leadership??
Mark Finley's decision is not any differnt then what we got for the injustice that was done to us.
Mrst53. There is no organizational church that will enter the gates. It is up to the individual, their walk with God, to obey the commandments because you love Him. and believe and look to Him only. Follow Him, His will for you and and yes there are a few good SDA's that know this corruption. God bless you and hang in there. I still think that much will come out and justice will hopefully be served. But as you can readily see that is age is about shot. Nothing too stable left except the foundation of truth, trust and obey. A lot of shaken going on!!! The media for sure will be in the courts! All the work Evangelists have spent and done..gone because they could not take care of their own house! Spread the branches,,, there they are hiding behind the "money tree". I am soul sick, embarrassed to the hilt for SDA to have this in their History of Events recorded. Our Inspired writer who was shown future things of the SDA people had tears running down that she could no longer write as she was shown the state of SDA in end times. It's here I so believe. Come close to Jesus and He will guide you home.
What is so sick about this is if one knows this they all knew it and their deceit will be as a quake of destruction.
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"...Pastor Mark, it is not too late to correct the mistakes of the past...." Dr Arild Abrahamsen
It is WAY TOO LATE to correct the unforgiveable!!!!
At 3ABN we have a board that continues to pretend that they can have it all and save this egregious ministry of profound hypocracy from itself. They have long had opportunity and real evidence to demonstrate that our concerns were legitimate and required a much closer look at the evidence that eventually indicted them beyond a reasonable doubt, but they continued to coddle and protect vicious hypocrits and a sexual predator worthy of a catholic priests ordination...and to lie, cheat and steal from the stockholders in the pews.
The "sole" founder and "annointed one" proved he, like saul, suffers from an unsettled demonic spirit that refuses to confess and turn from his sins or to make right the obvious trail of vicious bloody lies and theivery from the very ministry he purportedly founded at God's Calling. It is difficult to beleive the "unforgiveable sin" has not been reached in this living demons' life. But, then, the Lord allowed even Saul to chase the "annointed" replacement for many years, but eventually his cup runneth over with iniquity, Saul paid a horrible price and the "annointed" David was a welcome replacement for the troubled soul of Saul!!!! I long for the contemporaneous day!!! It will come in the Lord's good time.
The irony is that the family that had to do an "intervention" with the filthy lucre, best identified as a pedophilic predator, just a decade ago when the pedophile's own child was the purported victim, now claims that Brad Walker's brother (the wife of Tommy's daughter at all times pertinent hereto and purportedly a heterosexual predator in his own right) is lying, when Brad in fact was responsible for bringing the young victim into the household of this known pedophilic predator (go wonder, Brad) - one must wonder if the motivation for this vicious onslaught against his own brother is the preservation of his directors' job at 3ABN or simple case of burdensome conscience. Given the record of his own inappropriate relationship with a former boom operator of some "campus wide" renown, one must wonder why his presence is tolerated at the ministry born to "counter-act the counterfit". In any event the pedophilic predator must now face "justice" and I pray that the jury will see through the pious facade that has left so many victims in the demonic wake!!!
Given the overwhelming history of this heinous ministry that was purportedly born "To Counter-act the Counterfeit" I have come to the unfettered conclusion that this ministry is in fact the COUNTERFEIT!!!! And I beleive it is TOO LATE to redeem!!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Ok, the 3abn board did absolutely nothing about DS and TS and LS. What about the President of the SDA church? Has he done anything about the situation or does he believe DS too? Is he just waiting until the trial to see what happens and hoping for the best?
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Ok, the 3abn board did absolutely nothing about DS and TS and LS. What about the President of the SDA church? Has he done anything about the situation or does he believe DS too? Is he just waiting until the trial to see what happens and hoping for the best?
The President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists has already let DLS know just how he views the petty little trouble-maker from hades. But, the 3ABN Board is largely composed of very independant business leaders, some of whom are known to support other "independant ministries" and have concerns with what they perceive as a diluted message...thus they view 3ABN as a purist "undiluted" message that they can control outside the oversight of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, which some privately view as apostate and/or corrupt.
The real issue is political wimp-dom...no one has the testicular fortitude to deal with any real issues and is why LSU, Gerraty and so many others have gotten away with managing SDA institutions when they are clearly not beleivers in the 28 Fundemental Beleifs...THEREFORE, THEY ARE NOT SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
"Radical, Right-Wing, Tea-Party Fundementalist" Proclaimed by Dr Lawrence Gerraty
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It's been 2 1/2 mos, is this all, Johann?
AA tells me he waited for a while to give MF an opportunity to reply to his last letter
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The following email was relayed to me along with the request that it be posted as written. I have complied with that request and post it now exactly as I received it and with no commentary.
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On June 3, 2010, an exchange of letters posted on the Internet was forwarded to me to read. The first letter, dated March 25, 2010, was posted under the name of Dr. Arild Abrahamsen, and was addressed to Elder Mark Finley. Elder Finley replied to that letter on the same date. A letter under the name of Dr. Abrahamsen was returned to Elder Finley on March 26, 2010.
In the letter sent under the name of Dr. Arild Abrahamsen to Elder Finley Dr. Abrahamsen wrote the following paragraph, " I realize that you are good friends with Walt Thompson and that you listened to "his version" of the events that occurred. But are you aware that Walt Thompson performed an abortion on his own daughter? Are you aware that she committed suicide a short time after this abortion? He doesn't sound like a great source to obtain information to me."
Since this accusation has repercussions far beyond myself and my family, and impacts upon the God to whom I have dedicated my life in service, His church, and its ministries, I must challenge Dr. Abrahamsen to provide documentation defending the accuracy of his statement. Of course, he will not, for he cannot. They do not exist, and never have.
Elder Finley is correct when he states in his response to Dr. Abrahamsen, "While I fully recognize that this unfortunate situation has brought significant pain to a number of people, I note a number of inaccuracies in the assumptions you have made. Some certainly do not harmonize with the facts as I understand them."
There are many reasons why inaccuracies and assumptions may arise in situations such as this. Often, two people may witness the same incident, but see it in very different ways--both being true in the minds of the witnesses. On other occasions, past experiences may influence our understanding of facts, giving us varied ways of interpreting the facts we observe. Sometimes, pertinent facts are unavailable for first person witness, leading interested individuals to make assumptions that may or may not be accurate. On yet other occasions, facts are intentionally distorted or fabricated in an effort to deceive--sometimes very effectively!
Undoubtedly all of these factors have contributed to the pain that has been experienced by so many in recent years in regards to the issues leading to Dr. Abrahamsen's letter. For the reasons given here, some things will remain a mystery so long as life may last here on earth. Only in that better land may we hope to see truth in all of its facets. Until then, we must go on, walking by faith, trusting the promises of God that, "All things work together for good to those that love God and are called according to His purpose," Romans 8:28.
For my part, as an individual very much involved in the events under discussion, and as chairman of the board of 3ABN during the time under discussion, I hereby wish to express my sorrow for any wrongs I have done, or any wrongs done by other members of the 3ABN community to those who have been hurt. Though we are all human and sometimes fail to live up to our highest aspirations, never has there been the least intent to mislead or cause pain. For the hurting ones (on both sides of the conflict) my heart aches, and for these I pray each day. Through these difficult times 3ABN's theme song has been severely tested, but remains our constant quest, "I want to spend my life healing broken people." We all do!
Will we ever agree on all points? Likely not! Will we ever see eye to eye? Perhaps not until we cross the river into that better world, but my plea is that we love one another in word and deed, proving by that love that God is our Father, and we, His faithful and true sons and daughters.
Jesus said, "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you: That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for He makes His sun shine on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust," Matthew 5:44, 45.
Let us love one another!
Walter Thompson
Chairman, 3ABN Board of Directors
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Well, WT, that was a good peice of spin........sigh...........Ok mrst53, sadly, I have to agree with Tinka. If Pastor Finley knows then the President also already knows and the whole of the administration of GC. At this point, I am sure DS has seen the emails, etc. They have not done anything about any portion of this mess. At the very least, they should have some hard questions for DS and his board, but nothing. Now we see MF and WT telling Dr. A, who was at the center of all this mess as the accused interloper with Linda, that he is inaccurate about the incidents. Now that take some nerve! But you know they have their story and they are sticking to it......Bible text for support and all.
I am not surprised. As i said, my own local conference just paid a young lady upwards to $10mil, because she was sexual molested and assualted by a teacher, who was already a registered sex offender in Idaho(apparently they didn't do a background check)...............and after the incident here, he was allowed to teach at another SDA academy in Nevada.........where he then had sex with one 15 year old and molested another.........at least they had him prosecuted and had him sent to prison.
The administrations of most christians denoms now are basically the same, though. We can start with the RCC and just go down the line. It is sad, and God does call for better administration for His people. These men will answer to God for their actions, or even lack thereof.
I am not sure what other options Dr. A will explore, but they can't say they weren't warned. Once again, they just should have answered the question, done what was right, and they would probably have avoided the coming storm. but you know that they(and effectively the church) will be protrayed as the victim by Dr. A who is out to destroy the work fo The Lord. They are nothing if not predictable......sigh.....
Oh yes, Johann, please tell Dr. A that I loved the "alien Adventist" Line. That is hilarious! I said it before on BSDA, you all need to read "This Present Darkness" and "Piercing the Darkness" by Frank Peretti. Some startling similarities with regards to "religious" administrations and who is really in charge.
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Anyman,
If you were an honest person as you proclaim WT is, you should realize Walt T. letter would have read completely different in context to portray his undivided attention for the bottom of truth and that he would do everything he could to get to truth then deny some of it and all of it, and that He would chase down all information until he got it for the benefit of all. He is quite educated to be "flowery" for good reason. flowery comes out when guilty complex prevails. Now the most reasonable theory is that if it is true about his daughter and you can surly expect denial as the rest of denial for everything else would be surely as easy. Actually if that is true, he ought to be in jail for what he did. and yes, that would be a most understandable thing a daughter might do if a father did such a thing. Of all the worst stories I've heard on here so far. This is it. The daughter evidently had a conscience that she no longer could live with. Is it true his daughter commited suicide? Did she have abortion. This sort of thing is so bad that most good people cannot think of such things.
Btw, for a while I was thinking that Mike T was Walt T. Is there connection here? and It sort of hit me that it might have been his daughter. and now are you claiming you knew nothing of Brandy too. You know people just do not grab surprises out of a bag and put their whole reputation out there for people to know they are big liars. This sort of stuff comes from reality that has happened and give speechless non thought of evil that transpires. I have not watched 3abn for several years now and the Walt guy I have lost in memory. But have watched how he has written his justifications and he is a phoney. Did you read the post of Di, now there is also another situation that was not taken care of either. *************************. I can absolutely relate to such situations that I also know of. Just plain shocking,
Edited to remove inappropriate content.
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ADMIN HAT ON
Entire post removed due to inappropriate content.
ADMIN HAT OFF
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LOL!!! Snoopy they are keeping you and that "mod red" busy to day, aren't they? LOL!!!
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Dr Arild Abrahamsen tells me he has documentation for what he wrote. At least as much documentation as the others have for all of their false rumors. Perhaps Mrs. Thompson now understands what sorrows her husband has caused Linda Shelton?
Here is another version I have received:
Johann, I received this from a - - -classmate
~e
----- Original Message -----
Begin forwarded message:
From: Avonne Thompson - - - -
Date: June 4, 2010 9:07:56 AM PDT
To: "\"undisclosed recipients\"" - - -
Subject: Re: Forum Post
Below is a paragraph that was just posted on a worldwide Internet public forum. The letter was written by Doctor Arild Abrahamsen, the doctor from Norway who cared for Nathan, the son of Linda Shelton. It was written to Mark Finley and posted by Pastor Johann Thorvalsson--who is a close friend of both Linda Shelton and the doctor.
In the post, Dr. Abrahamsen is pleading with Mark Finley, a vice-president of the SDA Church, to take action against 3ABN on behalf of Linda Shelton. I will not address the entire letter as most of you are familiar with the other issues Johann discusses--they have been discussed for the last five or six years publicly on forums, letters to our church leaders and pastors--and then forwarded by email to many, many others--since the termination of Linda's employment at 3ABN and the breakup of Linda and Danny Shelton's marriage.
I believe it is important---for the sake of our son and grandchildren and their families--to clarify this portion that makes reference to the death of our daughter. Our daughter's girls are now in their mid-twenties, and should they hear these absolute lies, they will be devastated. Suicide is a horrible thing--and then to have leaders in our church tell--and be told--this kind of a lie will destroy them all over again--as it has us.
Below is the portion of the letter to Mark Finley--written by Dr. Abrahamsen and posted by Johann Thorvalsson--pertaining to our daughter's death. It was just posted yesterday--
"I realize that you are good friends with Walt Thompson and that you listened to "his version" of the events that occurred. But are you aware that Walt Thompson performed an abortion on his own daughter? Are you aware that she committed suicide a short time after this abortion? He doesn't sound like a great source to obtain information to me."
Here is a very short paragraph as to what actually happened. We adopted our daughter when she was 15 months old. She died at the age of 28. We worked with many, many professional people throughout her life, and were finally counseled to allow her to get married at 16. She was pregnant--but was hospitalized with a miscarriage after the marriage and before her first child was born. When our daughter took her life at age 28, she had two living children--her youngest, eight years old and the other daughter, ten. She never lived in our home again after her marriage, but we have no information suggesting that she had abortions other than the one mentioned. IF THERE WERE ANY ABORTIONS, WALT DID NOT DO THEM!! Her suicide had nothing to do with an abortion as is inferred in the paragraph by Dr. Abrahamsen--and her youngest girl was eight years old, SO YOU CAN SEE THAT SHE DID NOT COMMIT SUICIDE "A SHORT TIME" AFTER HER MISCARRIAGE WHEN SHE WAS 16. And, after her second daughter was born, she had surgery which prevented her from having more children.
I am sending this email to those of you in my email address book who have been aware of this ongoing situation with those connected with 3ABN through the last five or six years. General Conference is coming up and, if you are attending, we wanted you to know the facts before you heard the gossip. And, if someone forwards the entire post to you, please judge all of it by this malicious lie as you read it. We would appreciate your prayers for our family. This is like reliving our daughter's suicide all over again. And the ones who are spreading this terrible gossip need our prayers as well. Thank you.
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That is sad, I am sure they were devastated after trying everything they could. I hadn't paid much attention to that portion of the letter, but if Dr. A doesn't have proof for that one, he should probably let that go. No need in traumatizing the family any further.
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This is like reliving our daughter's suicide all over again. And the ones who are spreading this terrible gossip need our prayers as well. Thank you.
Amen
I am dumbfounded that this should be brought up in this forum.
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Six years ago someone started spreading lies and rumours, and caused untold pain and destruction to many people. Since then it seems that every possible old wound has been reopened and acid poured in. Sometimes its hard to see people get hurt, even when they have not hesitated to hurt others.
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Now, George, this is what I have been talking about all the time. It is one thing to point out faults, and try to make things right. However, this situation here is just a mess with every side claiming the blessing of God and considering the other side, not just wrong but basically the spawn of satan. Danny can do no right here. According to those here, he gets up in the morning and his first breath is just wrong. The other side is no better, and we saw that today. Not to mention that this began with some rather scandlous words and actions by DS and the 3ABN board.
Dr. I am sure is hurting, and a lot mift at the things that were said about him all this time. Trouble is hurting people, hurt others. He should hav left that portion out. Thing is this mess has been running on a "by any means necessary" for a long time. Just think about that paternity test. People really did want to expose that poor child on the internet as proof of their claims against Danny, etc. That still is reprehensible! This is no better. I started to say this in my first post, but I should have. Dr. A probably needs to apologize for the part about WT's daughter. ***************************************************.
Edited to remove inappropriate content.
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Apparently not all the people involved at the time agree that it was a miscarriage.
Is the pain the Thompson family experinced at that time a good reason to inflict similar pain to Linda Shelton - and to keep it up until now? Is it about time for a truce? Or does that have nothing to do with the love Walt is writing about?
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JohN:
My position always has been and continues to be that Linda was not treated right. But, this is "hitting below the belt."
I do not believe that Linda--who has a daughter that was publicly embarrased--would want said about the Thompson's daughter what was said. If you want to tell me that Linda would approve of such, I will have to say that I have misunderstood Linda.
In short: Two wrongs do not make a right.
It jsut does not seem logical to me that Dr. A., living in Norway, would have proof of his alligation that Dr. T performed an abortion on his own daughter. Something is missing here.
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Something is very missing. Sort of all take a deep breath and let this settle in. I hope so much that it all will be wrong.
But it remains.. that if DR. says he had some documents let him reply.
Did all lose the fact that TS wife still upholds TS. Board still upholds 3abn. Walt T. is still involved in the clans doings that we mostly have concluded. There has been an arrest and all the other sick fiascos. We know basically that birds of a feather flock together. and I do not have a factual conclusion just because " this lovely email of denial has been sent". Does not that remain to be the going thing from the protectors.
The only thing that addressed my attention is why, why did this 16 year old girl have so many problems. Maybe it was miscarraige and maybe not. I am getting strange feeling that most of the "volunteers" have same sort of situations within the fold of 3abn seem to all "huddle a lot in the same situations". I am not ready to wash everything down the drain because "Waco" has taught a lot and so did the most recent episode of the "visionieers". I would say if Dr. has a point let him return in due time. I mean anyone can wonder if the 16 year old married the babies father because or maybe the babies father is someone else, same reasons DS and Brandy got hitched. Too many possibilities that need proven before one way or the other is factual.
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Johan:
You are so closely associated with Linda that some people are going to think that Linda had something to do with you posting that letter from Dr. A. That association is not going to serve her well. As you likely konw, there is a saying: With friends like these, who needs enemies?
I hope you can tell us that Linda had nothing to do with you posting that letter. If she did, I have clearly misjudged her and whoever advised her to post the comment about the Thompson's daughter gave Linda bad advice.
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Dr Arild Abrahamsen tells me he has documentation for what he wrote. At least as much documentation as the others have for all of their false rumors. Perhaps Mrs. Thompson now understands what sorrows her husband has caused Linda Shelton?
"At least as much documentation as the others have..." is not enough. :console: Please, let's not present anything that we can't soundly back up even if it proves our point. Why would you want to put your work on the same level as the very people you condemn? Should we lack integrity because they do?
RBF
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For some time I have been mostly quiet as far as posting comments related to the issues with 3-ABN. But, I think that now is a time to speak and to make a public statement in regard to Dr. Thompson the Chair of the 3-ABN Board.
I have believed in the past and I continue to believe today that Dr. Thompson made some wrong decisions in regard to the issues with Linda. I simply differ with him and believe that he was wrong.
However, I have never charged him with malice in the decisions that he made. A person can be wrong and even very wrong and have no evil intent. In fact those bad decisions may stem from a good intent.
Dr. Thompson and his family, in my opinion, have devoted years to serving the SDA Church which he has loved. He has contributed his time, his talents and of his means. His family has joined with him in this support of what they believed that God wanted him (them) to do. While I think he has made some mistakes I want to publicly acknowledge his positive contributions to the SDA Church and the work of God on earth.
I will grant that it may be proper for Dr. A. to make the claims about Dr. Thompson in a private letter to a Vice-President of the General Conference. But, allegations of that nature should have remained private and not subject to public posting, regardless of any legal right to publicly post them. That public posting has the potential to do harm not only to Dr. Thompson and his wife, but to other family members--children and grandchildren, as well as the memory of a now deceased troubled person. The daughter is dead. She cannot defend herself. Nothing positive is gained by the comments made about her. The focus of the issues lie with: 3-ABN, Danny Shelton and Linda Shelton. That is where the focus might properly lie. There is no need to bring others into this discussion. When you bring dr. Thompson into the discussion, focus on his decisions related to the central issues. There is no need to bring other family members into this discussion.
I do not claim to be knowledgeable on Internet libel law. But, I suspect that if Dr. Thompson were to consult a competent attorney in the area of Internet libel law he might be told that he had cause for action on Libel and Defamation of Character. Frankly, I suspect that Dr. Thompson and his family would decide not to litigate. But, I suspect that he has cause for action.
The bottom line for me is: Those involved in posting the comments about the Thompson's daughter should be ashamed. They owe Dr. Thompson a sincere apology. It is too bad that due to the death of the daughter they cannot apologize to her. They also owe her an apology.
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Truth is a funny thing that surfaces in the most unusual way that is least expected. Truth needs to prevail however it goes.
Btw, anyone see what happened to the horrific case of Natalie Holloway with a whole country covering up so it would not hurt their tourist money. This pattern is used over and over. It came back very hard to the guilty one and it was hidden by the father who is now dead from heart attack. People just think they can lie and cover up but that is not how the pattern works out. Because evil keeps doing evil until the innocent cry out and the devil wins then. It finanlly catches up. I believe all this 3abn saga is finally catching up. There is just too much wrong.
It is the same scenario that when a monkey reaches into a jar for the biggest handful of goodies and cannot draw out his hand because he will not let go of his goodies.
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Everybody ignores my question if it is not time to call for a truce? Do you all just want to keep on fighting?
Let me just state that I was asked to post those letters. Don't they give an idea how intense the "fighting" has been? Many inappropriate things have been said. Some will claim that these are by far the worst examples.
Gregory, you may think your comments are professional - then lets get something positively done. Now is the time for action, . .
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Why would I think my comments were professional? I was speaking from my heart in many ways. Do you understand that?
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I wonder why they do not in a court of law do the same as all is brought out in character witnesses. Nothing is barred seems like.
If someone has proof then one must decide just what kind of character to prove one is.
Just want to say one thing on here. I knew a family of the same caliber you claim this family is and has done. This family was very educated and pilliars of the church. You have no idea at the end of their lives the truth that came out. It's been a year now and I will never get over it. It would not even be believable if I told it It is just as terrible. It all came out when I lost my mother and this horrendous truth came out and put me in hospital for 2weeks as I thought I was loosing it for being so stupid of ones character of a close friend of the family that I had for a lifetime . I will not trust no man after this. and this has the same sounding tinkling of a cracked bell. I also could spell it out, prove with documents and witnesses of what went down. I am so sick from it that I cannot go over it. But if it was for proof of ones character for truth, you can trust one thing I know the truth of what these pillars really were. Even a very close relative of this person told me they were so sorry I had to go through what I did but really they were like that their whole life. What can you do about this?? not a thing they are both dead. Just leaves you sick and mentally distressed that you were so stupid and trusting for so many many years. I even felt God was against us to let that person deceive us and all happen like it did. Still do not understand it.
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Why would I think my comments were professional? I was speaking from my heart in many ways. Do you understand that?
You obviously have a huge dog in this fight. One would wonder whos side are you on. Your comments would leave a logical person to believe that you, yourself, are not even sure.
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Thank you!!!!! Somebody agrees with me finally!!!! Thank you Pastor Johann!!!!
Everybody ignores my question if it is not time to call for a truce? Do you all just want to keep on fighting?
Let me just state that I was asked to post those letters. Don't they give an idea how intense the "fighting" has been? Many inappropriate things have been said. Some will claim that these are by far the worst examples.
Gregory, you may think your comments are professional - then lets get something positively done. Now is the time for action, . .
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So tell me how does evil and good come together, how do you live with right and wrong under the same roof or same denomination, how shall the honest keep giving to the evil and how will this record go down as sympathy for evil that will be carried into damnation because just to weak to stand up. Devil did a good job.
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Gregory,
No cause of action for defamation libel(written) or slander(spoken) if the statement or statements are true. Conversely if the statement or statements are not true then defamation is actionable. However, there are other torts under invasion of privacy such as intrusion upon ones private seclusion, false light in the public eye, or public disclosure of private facts that maybe more appropriate.
I would think that accusing Brandy of being a nude dancer and giving birth to a child with the father being a televangelist as alleged in the first part of this forum, seemingly to imply the father is DS, if not true is easily recognizable as defamation. ;D
Guess what everybody, the close of probation is very close. :wave: GET READY! :wave:
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Ok people, so I am blessed int hat a good many of my posts get ignored......LOL!!! However, no matter what WT and DS did, one is only responsible for their own actions. Just because they did wrong doesn't mean it is right to do wrong back to them.....especially if we are calling ourselves Christians..........two wrongs never make a right. Tinka, it is not the same a being in the courts system, they don't claim to be christian but to uphold the laws of the land. And in a court of law, they just can't say anything to discredit a witness. You have to undermine their credibility related to the situation.
Now don't get me wrong, I believe Dr. A had a right to walk right up to 3ABN compound and tag Danny's shady behind. And man to man just knocked WT upside his head for being a wimpy chairman when he should have done the right thing and also sat Danny lying behind down, and some a real investigation into to demise of this marriage. Sorry......every onst in a while sista gurl comes out. However, Dr. A by no means has the right to inflict this type of pain on the innocence of this woman's daughters, her mother and the rest of her family.
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Gregory, I should have said that you are a professional. You have told us you have taken courses. So lets get going!
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These things have already been discussed......over and over again....you dont' remember that entire mess about the paternity test on the child in the parking lot? And Brandy's past has been talked about from the beginning. AT BSDA, I think something was mentioned about something found on the internet. They wouldhave to sue a whole lot of other people long before now.
Gregory,
No cause of action for defamation libel(written) or slander(spoken) if the statement or statements are true. Conversely if the statement or statements are not true then defamation is actionable. However, there are other torts under invasion of privacy such as intrusion upon ones private seclusion, false light in the public eye, or public disclosure of private facts that maybe more appropriate.
I would think that accusing Brandy of being a nude dancer and giving birth to a child with the father being a televangelist as alleged in the first part of this forum, seemingly to imply the father is DS, if not true is easily recognizable as defamation. ;D
Guess what everybody, the close of probation is very close. :wave: GET READY! :wave:
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Ok people, so I am blessed int hat a good many of my posts get ignored......LOL!!! However, no matter what WT and DS did, one is only responsible for their own actions. Just because they did wrong doesn't mean it is right to do wrong back to them.....especially if we are calling ourselves Christians..........two wrongs never make a right. Tinka, it is not the same a being in the courts system, they don't claim to be christian but to uphold the laws of the land. And in a court of law, they just can't say anything to discredit a witness. You have to undermine their credibility related to the situation.
Now don't get me wrong, I believe Dr. A had a right to walk right up to 3ABN compound and tag Danny's shady behind. And man to man just knocked WT upside his head for being a wimpy chairman when he should have done the right thing and also sat Danny lying behind down, and some a real investigation into to demise of this marriage. Sorry......every onst in a while sista gurl comes out. However, Dr. A by no means has the right to inflict this type of pain on the innocence of this woman's daughters, her mother and the rest of her family.
I agree with you completely, on all aspects of this post. Thank you.
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Di, unless he knows the truth.
For sure one needs to bring in the :beagle: as it is not a church matter anymore but a civil because they have went against the law of the land and all moral actions against all spoken of in the Bible. I believe they have. So you all gonna cover too under the banner of SDA chuch. There will be consequences of the hidden sin ... If true it will appear and surface again only to let you know you goofed it. ONes actions good or evil can test many.
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Ok people, so I am blessed int hat a good many of my posts get ignored......LOL!!! However, no matter what WT and DS did, one is only responsible for their own actions. Just because they did wrong doesn't mean it is right to do wrong back to them.....especially if we are calling ourselves Christians..........two wrongs never make a right. Tinka, it is not the same a being in the courts system, they don't claim to be christian but to uphold the laws of the land. And in a court of law, they just can't say anything to discredit a witness. You have to undermine their credibility related to the situation.
Now don't get me wrong, I believe Dr. A had a right to walk right up to 3ABN compound and tag Danny's shady behind. And man to man just knocked WT upside his head for being a wimpy chairman when he should have done the right thing and also sat Danny lying behind down, and some a real investigation into to demise of this marriage. Sorry......every onst in a while sista gurl comes out. However, Dr. A by no means has the right to inflict this type of pain on the innocence of this woman's daughters, her mother and the rest of her family.
Are you saying we should just keep on fighting who has said the worst things ´- so that the fighting can go on?
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I believe this was uncalled for. This was about as Un-Christian as you can get. I feel that the author of this post owes Pastor Johann an appology. Shame on you Cindy, for allowing this over at your site.
Johann Thorvaldson admits he is a liar
by proffaberf451 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:12 am UTC
Johann Thorvaldson, the supposed pastor from Scandinavia has publically admitted that he is a liar and should have his pastoral credentials revoked and he should be censured by the division that oversees his activities if not the General Conference.
For years Johann Thorvaldson has claimed that there is no evidence to substantiate the claims against Linda Shelton. Today, a day after publishing a vile and despicable lie about the 3ABN Board of Directors Chairman, he responded to a challenge for evidence with the following:
Dr Arild Abrahamsen tells me he has documentation for what he wrote. At least as much documentation as the others have for all of their false rumors. Perhaps Mrs. Thompson now understands what sorrows her husband has caused Linda Shelton?
Since he has claimed that there is no evidence against Linda Shelton, this is tantamount to a public admission that he is engaged in lying as a means to defend his position. An admitted tit-for-tat. He knows the truth but refuses to admit it because of his blind loyalty to Linda Shelton - the source of his current lying endeavor. A retired pastor, he has evidenced that he has left behind all of the beliefs that he claimed to hold true when he occupied a pulpit. He has evidenced that he no longer believes in the fundamental beliefs of this faith, nor does he believe in the Ten Commandments. His credentials should be immediately revoked and he should be barred from speaking from any pulpit in any church in this world by both his division and the General Conference.
One has to wonder why he is so blindly adherent to Linda Shelton. He has obviously believed any and all lies she has feed him, whether directly or through the quasi-doctor Abrahamsen. He can no longer be trusted to lead, nor counsel, in the name of the church or in the name of the Savior. He has abdicated his role in the Lord's work and taken up with the devil's side instead.
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These things have already been discussed......over and over again....you dont' remember that entire mess about the paternity test on the child in the parking lot? And Brandy's past has been talked about from the beginning. AT BSDA, I think something was mentioned about something found on the internet. They wouldhave to sue a whole lot of other people long before now.
:ROFL: so that is how they got the proof, of the nude dancer called Brandy off the internet?? Well, can you imagine? I 'm taking your implication here as fact Gurl.... Wonder how much porno it took to watch that from 3abn headquarters before the jets flew??
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Now does that post by Cindy let anyone think they can put their guard down on such a lying bit of garbage. I consider that it was not even 5 minutes before consequences commensed. Ya can't parley with the devil.
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What do SDA's and Christians believe happens when one asks God for forgiveness for sin? What happens when one decides to follow Jesus and is baptized? All that old life and past sin is left behind, right?
Back in 2007 Linda told me about something that Gailon found on the internet from DS's then wife. I checked this out with Bob Pickle who confirmed that it wasn't something that Gailon had found but that one of his associates had found it. Contrary to what Di posted, that information was never posted publically on the internet until Johann posted Dr. Arild A.'s letter here yesterday. One has to wonder about the motivation for this to be made public and who is behind it.
And wow, did the salivating begin!
For those purporting to be fighting to cleanse the SDA camp of evil, the hunger here for juicy allegatons reminds me of the blood-eating plant in Little Shop of Horrors rather than the characteristics that one would expect of a disciple of Christ.
I think your "Holy War" has gotten much further off track.
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So I am assuming that you would agree with me that the post I referred too, was uncalled for?
What do SDA's and Christians believe happens when one asks God for forgiveness for sin? What happens when one decides to follow Jesus and is baptized? All that old life and past sin is left behind, right?
Back in 2007 Linda told me about something that Gailon found on the internet from DS's then wife. I checked this out with Bob Pickle who confirmed that it wasn't something that Gailon had found but that one of his associates had found it. Contrary to what Di posted, that information was never posted publically on the internet until Johann posted Dr. Arild A.'s letter here yesterday. One has to wonder about the motivation for this to be made public and who is behind it.
And wow, did the salivating begin!
For those purporting to be fighting to cleanse the SDA camp of evil, the hunger here for juicy allegatons reminds me of the blood-eating plant in Little Shop of Horrors rather than the characteristics that one would expect of a disciple of Christ.
I think your "Holy War" has gotten much further off track.
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I'll bet it's been quite a while since Linda Shelton confided anything in you, huh Grandma? Or Gregory, for that matter.
What do SDA's and Christians believe happens when one asks God for forgiveness for sin? What happens when one decides to follow Jesus and is baptized? All that old life and past sin is left behind, right?
Back in 2007 Linda told me about something that Gailon found on the internet from DS's then wife. I checked this out with Bob Pickle who confirmed that it wasn't something that Gailon had found but that one of his associates had found it. Contrary to what Di posted, that information was never posted publically on the internet until Johann posted Dr. Arild A.'s letter here yesterday. One has to wonder about the motivation for this to be made public and who is behind it.
And wow, did the salivating begin!
For those purporting to be fighting to cleanse the SDA camp of evil, the hunger here for juicy allegatons reminds me of the blood-eating plant in Little Shop of Horrors rather than the characteristics that one would expect of a disciple of Christ.
I think your "Holy War" has gotten much further off track.
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Boy, the hip boots need to come on- and someone is starting to really play dirty pool. Guess we can expect alot worse as July gets closer :ROFL:
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Boy, the hip boots need to come on- and someone is starting to really play dirty pool. Guess we can expect alot worse as July gets closer :ROFL:
I'm with you on this. The closer it comes the more hilarious the defense sets in. They know it's almost time for them to pack up their bags.
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This is disturbing. Let bad be bad, and good be good. Sometimes we need to avert our gaze from the abyss for a while.
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Now see, don't take them as truth, because I only said things had been discussed about her past. Nobody came through with a link or anything. So, I just took them as things being thrown out there just like everything else. There was a whole lot of slinging back and forth at BSDA. That is why at one point a limit was put on who who fair game or not. I believe that Brandy's past was not fair game. So it stopped. And this stuff with the little girl's paternity would never have been allowed at BSDA.
But my actual point was DR. A was not the frist person to question Brandy's past, ind if some kind of lawsuit was going to be filed they would have to add everyone who had questioned her past or made inferences that it was an unsavory one.
It was also my understanding that she was baptized,, and I believe that means a cleansing from one's sins, Correct? We must remember that all have sinned and come short. and are equal at the foot of the cross.
This is why I support a truce, and you know I have for a very long time. This gets very hurtful. Brandy is gone, and still the short time she was married to Danny come into play in an effort to destroy him.
:ROFL: so that is how they got the proof, of the nude dancer called Brandy off the internet?? Well, can you imagine? I 'm taking your implication here as fact Gurl.... Wonder how much porno it took to watch that from 3abn headquarters before the jets flew??
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So, just for the record for anyone who is confused, this is AdventTalk, NOT BSDA. If you want BSDA rules (and Clay), go to BSDA.
Now see, don't take them as truth, because I only said things had been discussed about her past. Nobody came through with a link or anything. So, I just took them as things being thrown out there just like everything else. There was a whole lot of slinging back and forth at BSDA. That is why at one point a limit was put on who who fair game or not. I believe that Brandy's past was not fair game. So it stopped. And this stuff with the little girl's paternity would never have been allowed at BSDA.
But my actual point was DR. A was not the frist person to question Brandy's past, ind if some kind of lawsuit was going to be filed they would have to add everyone who had questioned her past or made inferences that it was an unsavory one.
It was also my understanding that she was baptized,, and I believe that means a cleansing from one's sins, Correct? We must remember that all have sinned and come short. and are equal at the foot of the cross.
This is why I support a truce, and you know I have for a very long time. This gets very hurtful. Brandy is gone, and still the short time she was married to Danny come into play in an effort to destroy him.
:ROFL: so that is how they got the proof, of the nude dancer called Brandy off the internet?? Well, can you imagine? I 'm taking your implication here as fact Gurl.... Wonder how much porno it took to watch that from 3abn headquarters before the jets flew??
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I believe this was uncalled for. This was about as Un-Christian as you can get. I feel that the author of this post owes Pastor Johann an appology. Shame on you Cindy, for allowing this over at your site.
Johann Thorvaldson admits he is a liar
by proffaberf451 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:12 am UTC
Johann Thorvaldson, the supposed pastor from Scandinavia has publically admitted that he is a liar and should have his pastoral credentials revoked and he should be censured by the division that oversees his activities if not the General Conference.
For years Johann Thorvaldson has claimed that there is no evidence to substantiate the claims against Linda Shelton. Today, a day after publishing a vile and despicable lie about the 3ABN Board of Directors Chairman, he responded to a challenge for evidence with the following:
Dr Arild Abrahamsen tells me he has documentation for what he wrote. At least as much documentation as the others have for all of their false rumors. Perhaps Mrs. Thompson now understands what sorrows her husband has caused Linda Shelton?
Since he has claimed that there is no evidence against Linda Shelton, this is tantamount to a public admission that he is engaged in lying as a means to defend his position. An admitted tit-for-tat. He knows the truth but refuses to admit it because of his blind loyalty to Linda Shelton - the source of his current lying endeavor. A retired pastor, he has evidenced that he has left behind all of the beliefs that he claimed to hold true when he occupied a pulpit. He has evidenced that he no longer believes in the fundamental beliefs of this faith, nor does he believe in the Ten Commandments. His credentials should be immediately revoked and he should be barred from speaking from any pulpit in any church in this world by both his division and the General Conference.
One has to wonder why he is so blindly adherent to Linda Shelton. He has obviously believed any and all lies she has feed him, whether directly or through the quasi-doctor Abrahamsen. He can no longer be trusted to lead, nor counsel, in the name of the church or in the name of the Savior. He has abdicated his role in the Lord's work and taken up with the devil's side instead.
Warning: If you go there you might get exposed to some pornography. Is that part of their "truth"?
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NO! Really? Are you serious??
Warning: If you go there you might get exposed to some pornography. Is that part of their "truth"?
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Gurl this ain't nothin'! Be glad you were never at BSDA, and be glad you didn't have to moderate that stuff. It was rough on and off board. Kind of hilarious, because depending on which way we would rule on the disputes, we were accused of favoring the other side.....it was a mess!
Boy, the hip boots need to come on- and someone is starting to really play dirty pool. Guess we can expect alot worse as July gets closer :ROFL:
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I believe this was uncalled for. This was about as Un-Christian as you can get. I feel that the author of this post owes Pastor Johann an appology. Shame on you Cindy, for allowing this over at your site.
Johann Thorvaldson admits he is a liar
by proffaberf451 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:12 am UTC
Johann Thorvaldson, the supposed pastor from Scandinavia has publically admitted that he is a liar and should have his pastoral credentials revoked and he should be censured by the division that oversees his activities if not the General Conference.
For years Johann Thorvaldson has claimed that there is no evidence to substantiate the claims against Linda Shelton. Today, a day after publishing a vile and despicable lie about the 3ABN Board of Directors Chairman, he responded to a challenge for evidence with the following:
Dr Arild Abrahamsen tells me he has documentation for what he wrote. At least as much documentation as the others have for all of their false rumors. Perhaps Mrs. Thompson now understands what sorrows her husband has caused Linda Shelton?
Since he has claimed that there is no evidence against Linda Shelton, this is tantamount to a public admission that he is engaged in lying as a means to defend his position. An admitted tit-for-tat. He knows the truth but refuses to admit it because of his blind loyalty to Linda Shelton - the source of his current lying endeavor. A retired pastor, he has evidenced that he has left behind all of the beliefs that he claimed to hold true when he occupied a pulpit. He has evidenced that he no longer believes in the fundamental beliefs of this faith, nor does he believe in the Ten Commandments. His credentials should be immediately revoked and he should be barred from speaking from any pulpit in any church in this world by both his division and the General Conference.
One has to wonder why he is so blindly adherent to Linda Shelton. He has obviously believed any and all lies she has feed him, whether directly or through the quasi-doctor Abrahamsen. He can no longer be trusted to lead, nor counsel, in the name of the church or in the name of the Savior. He has abdicated his role in the Lord's work and taken up with the devil's side instead.
Warning: If you go there you might get exposed to some pornography. Is that part of their "truth"?
There is no pornography there. Why are you lying again, Johann?
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So, just for the record for anyone who is confused, this is AdventTalk, NOT BSDA. If you want BSDA rules (and Clay), go to BSDA.
Thank you, Snoopy!
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There is no pornography there. Why are you lying again, Johann?
Johann is not lying. There HAS indeed been porn at that site - another reason why I call it "the smut site". Just because you might not have seen it does not mean it wasn't there. I think you owe Johann an apology.
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Everybody ignores my question if it is not time to call for a truce? Do you all just want to keep on fighting?
Coming from someone who is obviously still fighting, and fighting dirty, your question is absurd.
Let me just state that I was asked to post those letters.
Truly? By whom?
Don't they give an idea how intense the "fighting" has been?
Yes, they certainly show how intense the fighting is, (yours) and the means you will employ to justify the ends. It doesn't reflect well on you, on Dr A, or on whoever asked you to post this at all. It's lies, it's ugly, and it is hatred, and it is wrong, Johann. I am sorry that you can't see that, and that others can see but are unable to reach you or help you.
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There is no pornography there. Why are you lying again, Johann?
Johann is not lying. There HAS indeed been porn at that site - another reason why I call it "the smut site". Just because you might not have seen it does not mean it wasn't there. I think you owe Johann an apology.
Well we'll just have to disagree, because "I think" it is you who owes the apologies, but I won't hold my breath waiting on any.
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That is sad, I am sure they were devastated after trying everything they could. I hadn't paid much attention to that portion of the letter, but if Dr. A doesn't have proof for that one, he should probably let that go. No need in traumatizing the family any further.
UNBELIEVABLE! You didn't read that portion of the letter, but you read Dr Thompson's response to that part of the letter (quoted below) and replied to it by saying (about someone you don't know, and events you have no knowledge of )and said "Well, WT, that was a good peice of spin........sigh...........Ok mrst53, sadly, I have to agree with Tinka..." ?!?
You agree with Tinka? The Tinka who knows no one and nothing but what 3 abn's accusers say? The Tinka who wrote this? (Even knowing that she is talking about the Chairman of the board who wanted to investigate and talk to Alyssa due to the letter Johann allegedly mailed out, but who was "admittedly" told by Johann, no, you are biased, her statement is enough,and left with his hands tied and no way to proceed with that? Johann who just posted a letter from DR A stating "Pastor Thorvalsson tried to do just that. It is my understanding that this matter came to your attention. Yet Alyssa was never contacted. The matter was dropped. " while Johann knows that is NOT true? and has posted here his justifications for not allowing anyone to question Alyssa?
Tinka wrote:
Anyman,
If you were an honest person as you proclaim WT is, you should realize Walt T. letter would have read completely different in context to portray his undivided attention for the bottom of truth and that he would do everything he could to get to truth then deny some of it and all of it, and that He would chase down all information until he got it for the benefit of all. He is quite educated to be "flowery" for good reason. flowery comes out when guilty complex prevails. Now the most reasonable theory is that if it is true about his daughter and you can surly expect denial as the rest of denial for everything else would be surely as easy. Actually if that is true, he ought to be in jail for what he did. and yes, that would be a most understandable thing a daughter might do if a father did such a thing. Of all the worst stories I've heard on here so far. This is it. The daughter evidently had a conscience that she no longer could live with. Is it true his daughter commited suicide? Did she have abortion. This sort of thing is so bad that most good people cannot think of such things...
And you think you are innocent of traumatizing the family? Think again.
Here's the heartfelt answer and challenge to Linda's friend, Dr. Arild Abrahamsen to document his accusations, and prove them, and WT's statement that "Of course, he will not, for he cannot. They do not exist, and never have." which you responded to, and called "spin". aka - a lie.
The following email was relayed to me along with the request that it be posted as written. I have complied with that request and post it now exactly as I received it and with no commentary.
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On June 3, 2010, an exchange of letters posted on the Internet was forwarded to me to read. The first letter, dated March 25, 2010, was posted under the name of Dr. Arild Abrahamsen, and was addressed to Elder Mark Finley. Elder Finley replied to that letter on the same date. A letter under the name of Dr. Abrahamsen was returned to Elder Finley on March 26, 2010.
In the letter sent under the name of Dr. Arild Abrahamsen to Elder Finley Dr. Abrahamsen wrote the following paragraph, " I realize that you are good friends with Walt Thompson and that you listened to "his version" of the events that occurred. But are you aware that Walt Thompson performed an abortion on his own daughter? Are you aware that she committed suicide a short time after this abortion? He doesn't sound like a great source to obtain information to me."
Since this accusation has repercussions far beyond myself and my family, and impacts upon the God to whom I have dedicated my life in service, His church, and its ministries, I must challenge Dr. Abrahamsen to provide documentation defending the accuracy of his statement. Of course, he will not, for he cannot. They do not exist, and never have.
Elder Finley is correct when he states in his response to Dr. Abrahamsen, "While I fully recognize that this unfortunate situation has brought significant pain to a number of people, I note a number of inaccuracies in the assumptions you have made. Some certainly do not harmonize with the facts as I understand them."
There are many reasons why inaccuracies and assumptions may arise in situations such as this. Often, two people may witness the same incident, but see it in very different ways--both being true in the minds of the witnesses. On other occasions, past experiences may influence our understanding of facts, giving us varied ways of interpreting the facts we observe. Sometimes, pertinent facts are unavailable for first person witness, leading interested individuals to make assumptions that may or may not be accurate. On yet other occasions, facts are intentionally distorted or fabricated in an effort to deceive--sometimes very effectively!
Undoubtedly all of these factors have contributed to the pain that has been experienced by so many in recent years in regards to the issues leading to Dr. Abrahamsen's letter. For the reasons given here, some things will remain a mystery so long as life may last here on earth. Only in that better land may we hope to see truth in all of its facets. Until then, we must go on, walking by faith, trusting the promises of God that, "All things work together for good to those that love God and are called according to His purpose," Romans 8:28.
For my part, as an individual very much involved in the events under discussion, and as chairman of the board of 3ABN during the time under discussion, I hereby wish to express my sorrow for any wrongs I have done, or any wrongs done by other members of the 3ABN community to those who have been hurt. Though we are all human and sometimes fail to live up to our highest aspirations, never has there been the least intent to mislead or cause pain. For the hurting ones (on both sides of the conflict) my heart aches, and for these I pray each day. Through these difficult times 3ABN's theme song has been severely tested, but remains our constant quest, "I want to spend my life healing broken people." We all do!
Will we ever agree on all points? Likely not! Will we ever see eye to eye? Perhaps not until we cross the river into that better world, but my plea is that we love one another in word and deed, proving by that love that God is our Father, and we, His faithful and true sons and daughters.
Jesus said, "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you: That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for He makes His sun shine on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust," Matthew 5:44, 45.
Let us love one another!
Walter Thompson
Chairman, 3ABN Board of Directors
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There is no pornography there. Why are you lying again, Johann?
Johann is not lying. There HAS indeed been porn at that site - another reason why I call it "the smut site". Just because you might not have seen it does not mean it wasn't there. I think you owe Johann an apology.
Well we'll just have to disagree, because "I think" it is you who owes the apologies, but I won't hold my breath waiting on any.
I also saw it.
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3D,
Why don't you understand that most families where red lights are blinking that they turned the red lights on all by their selves. Then you got the rest of them covering. You got the wrong idea when these situation are into the "money" making by deceiving and using sympathy of the innocent to pay them. This is better then the Nigerian scams. of course all of them use the American soft talking religion. I've had a few sent my way and religion is in all of them.
Strange things happen, you know kinda like the email mix ups right at this pertinent time. Don't know why or how it happened-- but in my hand is your email back and I think discussing of lying.... lays spoken. You are explaining what you very well knew and they knew. so why did you tell it??? was it a lie???
and you think the public should not be outragged over thievery of funds and misuse? One thing for sure 3d, just like vander sloot. Evil sprouts and blossoms in the next season to the view of all. Like I said just too much is wrong in the "clan". Only a couple escaped Waco too.
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Duane,
I thought all that info came from you out of the blue and that is why you never knew what I was talking about when I responded back. I did not divuldge the info when discovering that 3d was sending personal email to me with "her" info. so we will just let that be as "who knows for sure "validity" for the time being. There was terrible mixup of emails. I still do not know if my emails went to right party under their email address.
I was thinking after that episode that someone was able to look into this site and see what they wanted to see and redirect them. IN fact it just hit my mind that my IPS number could be traced.
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Duane,
I thought all that info came from you out of the blue and that is why you never knew what I was talking about when I responded back. I did not divuldge the info when discovering that 3d was sending personal email to me with "her" info. so we will just let that be as "who knows for sure "validity" for the time being. There was terrible mixup of emails. I still do not know if my emails went to right party under their email address.
I was thinking after that episode that someone was able to look into this site and see what they wanted to see and redirect them. IN fact it just hit my mind that my IPS number could be traced.
Look, I have never emailed Tinka. I don't even know her email address, where her secret website is, or what her ISP# is. I do think that following her own logic and reasoning and justifications she should consider that all of the injustice, and lies against she and hers which occured as she constantly proclaims and says happened in her case, should be laid at her own door, just as she lays them at the feet of others as she asked me: "Why don't you understand that most families where red lights are blinking that they turned the red lights on all by their selves Then you got the rest of them covering. "As you judge so shall you be judged", right? She gives no benefit of the doubt or mercy, so is she entitled to it? Not according to herself...
Here's what she is talking about and what actually happened. I just sent a pm here on this forum to Tinka to answer a question which she first asked me here on this forum, and she replied calling me "Duane" repeatedly and referring to things "Duane" told her, and blah blah blah.. I told her straightaway she was wrong,as soon as she did so in my very first reply to her, and informed her she was mistaken, and that I was not Duane. I have revealed nothing she said about her private conversations with Duane and won't, as it was said in confidence while she was under a misunderstanding and confused ,but it does affect my opinion of her.
To err on the side of kindness, that is my opinion of the majority of her posts as well. "clueless, suffering under a misunderstanding, and confused"
moving on...
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1. Lets, just say I was mailed personal mail from you for the first time on these posts.
2. You do not know of our case but some do and no it was nothing to do with anything that was our fault but greed greed for what we had after we thought we would be helping a situation out. Then to our discovery it was take over time and tried to force taking all. We discovered their corruption of plans through buyers that knew us.
3. I never asked you anything about any porno as at that point until posted on here that I knew anything at all pertaining to it. You offered it and said it. Now you deny it and I have the proof.
4. and I am not going to divuldge it here. It might be a lie too.
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Now, 3D, I may have misspoke so I will try again. I didn't really pay attention to that portion of the email, because my focus was on the fact the Dr. A was addressing these issues to Pastor Finley, what his response would be. As wrong as I believe Danny and WT are, I still do not believe it is fair game to inflict undue pain upon his granddaughters and his wife. These were not their actions. They were the actions of Danny and the 3ABN board of whom WT is/was chair. You confront them on those actions, not their families. His wife wrote a letter to let them know just how much this has hurt her and the granddaughters. That requires an apology, as I am sure they were not the intended targets of this confrontation. I am not saying by any stretch of the imagination that Dr. A should not have written Pastor Finley for some kind of resolution, only that he went a bit overboard in his zeal to get that resolution.
3D, both sides have, gone overboard and been completely out of line to discredit, even destroy those on the other side of this conflict, and you know I have always called them on it, no matter who it was. I don't agree with the people here who believe Danny every waking breath is evil and he is the spawn of satan. I remind them all the time that he is their brother in Christ(whether they like or or not as Go created us all), and he is not beyond God's love or forgiveness. The same can be said of your side, everyone who is against Danny is not evil and trying to destroy God's work, and I will tell you the same thing about them being your brothers and sisters in Christ. You know I have been for a truce in this matter for a very long time, as both sides seem to be employing the devil's tools to attempt to do what they believe is God's work, and it is getting real messy. Now, what more do you want me to say than the comments about WT's daughter made by Dr. A were wrong and he should apologize?
It is not a black or white issues. I can agree with most of what Dr. A was saying......you see I liked that phrase he used........and still know that it was wrong for him to go for the jugular like that. Still two wrongs don't make a right.
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Duane,
I thought all that info came from you out of the blue and that is why you never knew what I was talking about when I responded back. I did not divuldge the info when discovering that 3d was sending personal email to me with "her" info. so we will just let that be as "who knows for sure "validity" for the time being. There was terrible mixup of emails. I still do not know if my emails went to right party under their email address.
I was thinking after that episode that someone was able to look into this site and see what they wanted to see and redirect them. IN fact it just hit my mind that my IPS number could be traced.
Look, I have never emailed Tinka. I don't even know her email address, where her secret website is, or what her ISP# is. I do think that following her own logic and reasoning and justifications she should consider that all of the injustice, and lies against she and hers which occured as she constantly proclaims and says happened in her case, should be laid at her own door, just as she lays them at the feet of others as she asked me: "Why don't you understand that most families where red lights are blinking that they turned the red lights on all by their selves Then you got the rest of them covering. "As you judge so shall you be judged", right? She gives no benefit of the doubt or mercy, so is she entitled to it? Not according to herself...
Here's what she is talking about and what actually happened. I just sent a pm here on this forum to Tinka to answer a question which she first asked me here on this forum, and she replied calling me "Duane" repeatedly and referring to things "Duane" told her, and blah blah blah.. I told her straightaway she was wrong,as soon as she did so in my very first reply to her, and informed her she was mistaken, and that I was not Duane. I have revealed nothing she said about her private conversations with Duane and won't, as it was said in confidence while she was under a misunderstanding and confused ,but it does affect my opinion of her.
To err on the side of kindness, that is my opinion of the majority of her posts as well. "clueless, suffering under a misunderstanding, and confused"
moving on...
I have to admit I am at a complete loss as to what just happened here.
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3. I never asked you anything about any porno as at that point until posted on here that I knew anything at all pertaining to it. You offered it and said it. Now you deny it and I have the proof.
4. and I am not going to divuldge it here. It might be a lie too.
-- removed reply --
I merely want to clarify that I offered porno to no one.
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3D said:
Here's the heartfelt answer and challenge to Linda's friend, Dr. Arild Abrahamsen to document his accusations, and prove them, and WT's statement that "Of course, he will not, for he cannot. They do not exist, and never have." which you responded to, and called "spin". aka - a lie.
I remember when Linda Shelton's reputation was slandered by false accusations. I remember the pain it caused not only Linda, also but her family. She lost her employment, her accusers actively attempted to stop any opportunity she was offered for Christian ministry. I remember when both she and her daughter were accused on an international television broadcast of bearing false witness against Danny, although Alyssa was the victim of sexual molestation by Danny Shelton, the man who had raised her as a daughter (emotionally that makes it more like incest). All the time Danny claimed to have evidence concerning Linda's "sin". When Linda asked Danny and the board of 3ABN to release the evidence publically, knowing that no evidence existed, they refused.
I agree, it would have been better if the information released about Walt Thompson had not been presented here, without the documentation to support the accusations. But what about the pain that Linda and her children have endured, not for just a few days on an obscure website, but televised by 3ABN over the entire world? Nor for only a few days, but for years. I feel pity for the Thompson family over the death of their child. I feel pity for Linda Shelton and her children for the humiliation and the murdering of their reputations.
This all started with a unscrupulous man who decided he wanted to put away his wife, be viewed as the injured party Bibically and had no problem manufacturing lies where no evidence existed. For what reason? Only God and Danny know for certain...
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3d
Now we are getting down to what the problem of your confusion is. Lack of reading and understanding as this is ongoing with you with almost everything you post. Someone says something and you come up with clear different concoctions.
You offered no porn to go watch as you say. I did not say you were doing that.
You offer the porn info on "who's" doing it at 3abn that they all know about. Have you got memory now?? and I simply asked if you were lying about that. This does not agree with what you have been posting as you continually rearrange your concoctions in a spinning illusion.
This is typical behavior of a liar.
Makes no difference on "who" it is the fact that if someone found "Brandy" on porno on Internet, DS knew it or had to look. So I feel Dr. had every right to put the truth to Mark Finley as he is a leader who has wonderful intelligence in perception of Bible but evidently lacks perception of what this could do to the SDA characterization. This is not the problem of outside public that catch on but to the father who constantly will cover or continues to give "flowery" speeches. The board letter was disgusting. They already got Waco & followers under their belts and others of the same kind of following and now this. This takes really stupid and uneducated people that can not think for theirselves to follow after this and defend DS.
People out there still handle the rattlers. Just don't know any better. Really is a shame.
I didn't think the Dr. would put his self out on a limb if the "porno info" was not there for visual proof.
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There is no real good resolution of this situation. It was wrong for the alligation that Dr. Thompson has performed an abortation on his daughter after which she shortly commited suicide to be publicly posted here. The letter that Dr. A. wrote to a General Vice-President of the General Conference was a private letter. As posted here it was just as wrong as it was to publicly post the private letter of Linda's daughter against her will. Every person associated with the posting of Dr. A's letter shoudl be ashamed of themselves and should publicly post an apology to the Thompson family seeking their forgiveness.
The public posting of Dr. A's commente has understandably caused pain to memebers of the Thompson famly who have had nothing to do with the alleged sins of 3-ABN and the Shelton family. It was wrong to involve them as has been done. The allegation has been denied. Dr. A. has been challenged to produce the evidence. The ball in now in his court and he has the following choices:
1) He can publicly produce the evidence that he implies that he has. The Thompson famly has asked that he do so.
2) He can review the evidence for his claim, decide that it is unsubstantiated, publicly acknowledge that he was wrong and ask forgiveness. If he does not have the evidence to support his alligation, it would be the response of a person of honor to acknowledge such.
3) He can simply ignore the demand that he produce the evidence. This would not be the response of a person of honor.
This situation is compounded by the fact that Linda may be hurt by what Dr. A. has claimed. He has supported Linda in the charges made against her. If he refuses to respond to the demand by the Thompson famly that he produce the evidence some are going to believe that he made a false statement. They will ask: If he made a false statement in this respect, why should we believe that other statements made in support of Linda were true. Perhaps they were false. Dr. A. should respond for the sake of LInda.
Well, the next step is up to him.
It looks like there is no good resolution, but he needs to do something.
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There is no real good resolution of this situation. It was wrong for the alligation that Dr. Thompson has performed an abortation on his daughter after which she shortly commited suicide to be publicly posted here. The letter that Dr. A. wrote to a General Vice-President of the General Conference was a private letter. As posted here it was just as wrong as it was to publicly post the private letter of Linda's daughter against her will. Every person associated with the posting of Dr. A's letter shoudl be ashamed of themselves and should publicly post an apology to the Thompson family seeking their forgiveness.
The public posting of Dr. A's commente has understandably caused pain to memebers of the Thompson famly who have had nothing to do with the alleged sins of 3-ABN and the Shelton family. It was wrong to involve them as has been done. The allegation has been denied. Dr. A. has been challenged to produce the evidence. The ball in now in his court and he has the following choices:
1) He can publicly produce the evidence that he implies that he has. The Thompson famly has asked that he do so.
2) He can review the evidence for his claim, decide that it is unsubstantiated, publicly acknowledge that he was wrong and ask forgiveness. If he does not have the evidence to support his alligation, it would be the response of a person of honor to acknowledge such.
3) He can simply ignore the demand that he produce the evidence. This would not be the response of a person of honor.
This situation is compounded by the fact that Linda may be hurt by what Dr. A. has claimed. He has supported Linda in the charges made against her. If he refuses to respond to the demand by the Thompson famly that he produce the evidence some are going to believe that he made a false statement. They will ask: If he made a false statement in this respect, why should we believe that other statements made in support of Linda were true. Perhaps they were false. Dr. A. should respond for the sake of LInda.
Well, the next step is up to him.
It looks like ther is no good resolution, but he needs to do something.
I believe that statement is inaccurate. I think Dr. Thompson has done plenty too cover up things ongoing at 3ABN.
--edited to clarify.--
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Samuelthomas: You are entitled to beleive that. NOTE: I did not say it was valid. You are entitled to argue your point and to state your position. But, in doing so focus on Dr. Thompson, 3-ABN, Danny Shelton and the specifics of what you believe to be their related sins.
It is simply wrong in an attempt to smear Dr. Thompson to involve Thompson family members who have nothing to do with the issues that should be of central focus. Tell me: What does the fact that a Thompson daughter was pregnant at the age of 16 have to do with the central issues--nothing. Dr. A. did not claim that Danny got her pregnant!
This type of stuff should be left out of the discussion.
You are seen as being on one side of this discussion. How would you feel is someone attacked you by accusing you, or a family member, of a sexual sin? What if they accused you, or a daughter, of some crime? What if it was true? Focus on the central issues. Leave other famly members out of it.
There is nothing fair in the public posting of the claim of Dr. A. in regard to the Thompson family and everyone associated with this public posting should be ashamed of themselves and make a public apology.
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Samuelthomas: You are entitled to beleive that. NOTE: I did not say it was valid. You are entitled to argue your point and to state your position. But, in doing so focus on Dr. Thompson, 3-ABN, Danny Shelton and the specifics of what you believe to be their related sins.
It is simply wrong in an attempt to smear Dr. Thompson to involve Thompson family members who have nothing to do with the issues that should be of central focus. Tell me: What does the fact that a Thompson daughter was pregnant at the age of 16 have to do with the central issues--nothing. Dr. A. did not claim that Danny got her pregnant!
This type of stuff should be left out of the discussion.
You are seen as being on one side of this discussion. How would you feel is someone attacked you by accusing you, or a family member, of a sexual sin? What if they accused you, or a daughter, of some crime? What if it was true? Focus on the central issues. Leave other famly members out of it.
There is nothing fair in the public posting of the claim of Dr. A. in regard to the Thompson family and everyone associated with this public posting should be ashamed of themselves and make a public apology.
I think that my position has been made clear, and remains steadfast.
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Gregory said:
The allegation has been denied. Dr. A. has been challenged to produce the evidence. The ball in now in his court and he has the following choices:
1) He can publicly produce the evidence that he implies that he has. The Thompson family has asked that he do so.
2) He can review the evidence for his claim, decide that it is unsubstantiated, publicly acknowledge that he was wrong and ask forgiveness. If he does not have the evidence to support his allegation, it would be the response of a person of honor to acknowledge such.
3) He can simply ignore the demand that he produce the evidence. This would not be the response of a person of honor.
Let us take above that I have bolded and apply it to the situation of Danny and Linda Shelton.
The allegation has been denied. Linda denied the allegations Danny made against her.
Danny had the following choices:
1) He can publicly produce the evidence that he implies that he has. He has not chosen this option.
2) He can review the evidence for his claim, decide that it is unsubstantiated, publicly acknowledge that he was wrong and ask forgiveness. If he does not have the evidence to support his allegation, it would be the response of a person of honor to acknowledge such. Danny has not chosen this option.
3) He can simply ignore the demand that he produce the evidence. This would not be the response of a person of honor. Neither has Danny chosen this option.
According to Gregory's logic: Danny Shelton has not responded as a person of honor. Therefore, we may draw the same conclusion regarding Danny Shelton as Gregory has in his statement: If Danny made a false statement in this respect, why should we believe that other statements, including adultery, against Linda are true. Perhaps it is better to assume they are all false.
Linda has waited for Danny to do the honorable thing for a number of years... She is still waiting.
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I remember when Linda Shelton's reputation was slandered by false accusations... I remember when both she and her daughter were accused on an international television broadcast of bearing false witness against Danny... what about the pain that Linda and her children have endured, not for just a few days on an obscure website, but televised by 3ABN over the entire world? Nor for only a few days, but for years.
I have always found this claim by Bob Pickle, Johann, Yourself and others to be a very strange one. It never appears to occur to any of you that you are the ones who claimed to recognize a description of Linda and her daughter in the televised show with Shelly Quinn's talk about "persecution" and the example of what Happened to John the Baptist. You all watched it and then proceeded to claim that part was really about Linda instead. Honestly, does it really sound like Linda and her daughter to you? If so, it does not appear you have a very good opinion of them...
Since Mr Pickle actually supplied the quotes on his website as proof that Linda and Alyssa were trashed and accused on TV, and it's the only example which has ever been given of these televised attacks of Linda which you all claim occurred over and over, I will quote his excerpt and proof here in full here so others who know Linda can see what it is you are remembering here and decide if they too think it is a perfect description of Linda which they can easily recognize as being about her.
"...As a faithful witness for God, he spoke out against a couple who had entered into a sinful relationship. Now the woman entangled in this situation became offended. She was embittered, and she felt scorned. And you know, there's something about her, that she was unconcerned about her relationship in the eyes of the Lord. Her worry revolved more around the possibility of losing her prominent position. So what did she do?" "She devised a plan to eliminate this one who had exposed her, and she enlisted the help of her young daughter. Now prompted by her mother, this daughter became entangled in the web of deceit, and she set out to set her mother's position and save it by destroying this man of God. What we see here is that the scheme was to go forward and go straight for the throat and have his head served up on a platter. Does this story sound familiar to you? To whom am I referring? John the Baptist, of course....Now, how could such a holy, Spirit-filled man, who was hand-picked by God and called to such an important ministry, fall victim to such vile persecution? Why would God allow it?
...
"But the Bible forewarns us that we will face various fiery trials and persecutions. It tells us we'll be ill treated, we'll be discriminated against. We will be tormented, hounded, slandered, even mentally molested, if you will. People will speak evil of us and they will try to ruin our reputation with lies...."
One more thing I would like to add here, in my opinion Shelly Quinn is not one to talk bad about others. I have never heard of her saying anything negative about Linda or Alyssa, much less Nathan, and no one accusing 3abn of slandering Linda has ever supplied one quote written or televised of Shelly Quinn ever even mentioning them either before, or after this broadcast.
3D
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There is no real good resolution of this situation. Yes, there is. Truth needs to be known as the business was from public funds from honest pew money. It was wrong for the alligation that Dr. Thompson has performed an abortation on his daughter after which she shortly commited suicide to be publicly posted here. The letter that Dr. A. wrote to a General Vice-President of the General Conference was a private letter. But they are soliciting funds is a public matter because they claim all for religious evangelism without knowledge of corruption behind the scenes. As posted here it was just as wrong as it was to publicly post the private letter of Linda's daughter against her will. All should be transparent when you survive off public money. Same as government so people can decide for their own funds honestly. Honesty is not here. Every person associated with the posting of Dr. A's letter shoudl be ashamed of themselves and should publicly post an apology to the Thompson family seeking their forgiveness. Why apologize if truth. The same for Brandy if true which I highly suspect. Will somebody else be blamed for what she has done to her 3 daughters? Do you think they shall never find out? also I put a couple of things in Search. yes, a web site is there but imagine this, all the places for her pictures are now blank.
The public posting of Dr. A's commente has understandably caused pain to memebers of the Thompson famly who have had nothing to do with the alleged sins of 3-ABN and the Shelton family. (Seems many things are acceptable in the whole clan of 3abn) It was wrong to involve them as has been done. The allegation has been denied. obviously, who wouldn't under these circumstances Dr. A. has been challenged to produce the evidence. The ball in now in his court and he has the following choices:
I agree
1) He can publicly produce the evidence that he implies that he has. The Thompson famly has asked that he do so.
2) He can review the evidence for his claim, decide that it is unsubstantiated, publicly acknowledge that he was wrong and ask forgiveness. If he does not have the evidence to support his alligation, it would be the response of a person of honor to acknowledge such.
3) He can simply ignore the demand that he produce the evidence. This would not be the response of a person of honor. Yes, and I think he will respond by the way he writes.
This situation is compounded by the fact that Linda may be hurt by what Dr. A. has claimed. He has supported Linda in the charges made against her. If he refuses to respond to the demand by the Thompson famly that he produce the evidence some are going to believe that he made a false statement. They will ask: If he made a false statement in this respect, why should we believe that other statements made in support of Linda were true. Perhaps they were false. Dr. A. should respond for the sake of LInda.
Well, the next step is up to him.
It looks like there is no good resolution, but he needs to do something. Yes, your right for an honest solution, I thought I caught a glimpse of something else you wrote on here but as I started it seemed to be gone. It had to do with the pregnancy. So either, that was the girl that they were talking about on post previously connected to DS or very strange because after first reading the first time posted I had the strangest feeling that the one she married was not the father of lost baby. Then the part where she was adopted......yes, I fear the story is not good however it is or you look at it. But the public is not the cause for it. The public has been deceived.
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Johann:
You have told us that someone asked you to post Dr. A's letter. O.K. I believe that you are an honest person and are speaking the truth.
As a result of that statement, people believe that it was Linda who asked you to post that letter. I have stated that the Linda I once knew, who had seen her own daughter trashed by posting a private letter, would not have asked you to post the letter you posted.
By remaining silent, you foster the perception that Linda was involved in posting Dr. A's letter. One way or another, it is in the best interests of LInda that you make a clear statement related to any part that Linda may have had in your posting that letter. A failure to do so on your part will continue to contribute to the negative perception that people have about Linda.
You opened this can of worms, now speak the truth. If LInda had something to do with it, it will be no worse than it already is and she can share her thinking as to why she did so. If she had no part in your posting the letter, you will serve to clear her reputation.
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I can't see where it makes a difference who had who do anything. I did not even think that it was LS in fact the only thing I see is someone counteracting what the protectors are hiding. But if the Dr. does have proof then ok, present it where ever it comes from. I think this is a little ploy to take LS down because those thoughts of public thinking is presumption.
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I can't see where it makes a difference who had who do anything. I did not even think that it was LS in fact the only thing I see is someone counteracting what the protectors are hiding. But if the Dr. does have proof then ok, present it where ever it comes from. I think this is a little ploy to take LS down because those thoughts of public thinking is presumption.
Amen!!!!!
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Who is the clear on what? Aren't we fortunate to have some self-appointed strong arbitrators among us? Who is obliged to follow their verdicts
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Gregory;
Stop pocking at everyone to give you info you feel you have a need to know! Linda is not the subject matter at hand! If I remember right, Linda dropped you as soon as she saw through your, "I can solve all things for you." You just had to [censored] in!
Johann, you are not required to answer to Gregory. He is not involved but so desires to be in charge. It is an old habit he has. And, yes, once Gregory lied to me. I believed him, and have regretted it to this day! With Gregory, you will find that he has a little knowledge, but speaks authoritatively about law and requirements as if he were an authority!
This is really enough. Leave Linda alone! She figured you out. I beleive you are a day late, and a dollar short!
I am sure that Dr A and Johann both understood the repercussions of their posts. Remember, They have seen this in full action with Bob and Gaylon! I am sure that was posted with only enough information to give them pause for a lawsuit. Maybe that is exactly what they are looking for.
If you have more demands of Dr A, Linda, or Johann, please go private. I am sure they will NOT jump for joy hearing from you because they know you are right in the middle of the fence and only lean to where you want to be. How dare you come here and spread hate and discontent about Linda. You should be ashamed! Why? What does this have to do with Linda?
I suppose this is your way to get back at Linda for dropping you? Is this where you are spiritually also?
Johann:
You have told us that someone asked you to post Dr. A's letter. O.K. I believe that you are an honest person and are speaking the truth.
As a result of that statement, people believe that it was Linda who asked you to post that letter. I have stated that the Linda I once knew, who had seen her own daughter trashed by posting a private letter, would not have asked you to post the letter you posted.
By remaining silent, you foster the perception that Linda was involved in posting Dr. A's letter. One way or another, it is in the best interests of Linda that you make a clear statement related to any part that Linda may have had in your posting that letter. A failure to do so on your part will continue to contribute to the negative perception that people have about Linda.
You opened this can of worms, now speak the truth. If Linda had something to do with it, it will be no worse than it already is and she can share her thinking as to why she did so. If she had no part in your posting the letter, you will serve to clear her reputation.
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NO ONE IS REQUIRED TO TELL HIM ANYTHING ! ! ! ! ! :help: :dunno: :huh: :hamster: And the beat goes on!
Who is the clear on what? Aren't we fortunate to have some self-appointed strong arbitrators among us? Who is obliged to follow their verdicts
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Who is the clear on what? Aren't we fortunate to have some self-appointed strong arbitrators among us? Who is obliged to follow their verdicts
Well, Johann, I am getting private messages telling me that it must be Linda who put you up to posting the letter. Do as you wish. Of course you do not have to tell anybody anything. But, the bottom line is: Your silence tends to smear Linda. Anyone who advised her to have that comment posted, if anyone did, is an unfaithful steward. As a SDA minsiter, you should have know that it was wrong to post that comment.
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Fran, your version of events is totaly lacking in truth. Your bear false witness, even though you may believe it to be true.
You would be the first person to tell me to keep Linda's business private if I were to tell what actually happened. It is out of respect Linda that I have remained quiet.
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Linda is no longer responsible or was she ever about the funds at 3abn. She is not the concern . What your missing is the characters that now run 3abn and all the corruption that they previously have done to now come back and kick their own behinds. It is leaking now to become a gusher.
You cannot get away from the arrests, lifestyle, adultery, now Brandi and chase the links. and beyond the wildest thoughts of blaming others for finding out..the cover ups.
Actually, in my very own opinion that doesn't make a difference to anyone is I really believe that DS really did a number and did not know how to get out of it and therefore the change in DS actions that LS noticed in bad treatment of her. and the characterization of Brandi..(dance spelling) what in the world was he doing! He sure did prove one thing...with money anything can get picked up. as his ego and boasting let you know. He just didn't realize that with out the money.... :ROFL:
Just think, if he would have been honest, fair, loved Linda and did what he was supposed to and if it was true of her, his actions would never ever been this and all the rest would not have come down on his head. Yes, LS has been stripped of all but that is better then losing your" head".
Now that was a big "glitch".
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Fran has accused me of lying to her several years ago. I am not certain what she references as she and I have not discussed this in any depth. However, here is what she references, I THINK?
I once moderated a 3ABN discussion on CA. Fran asked me permission to post THE TELEVANGELIST. I breifly looked at it and it was posted. After it was posted I read it in detail. I promptly deleted it as I would not allow what I read to be posted. All in all it lasted in CA for 15 - 20 minutes. I think that she claims I lied to her because I removed it after reading it in detail and after telling her it could be posted.
The bottom line: I made a mistake. My brief review did not give me a clear picture of what was in the document. After reading it in detail, I removed it, which is exactly what should have been done. I was right to remove it. I was wrong in telling Fran that it could be posted at a time when I had not read it in detail and did not fully understand what was in the document. I was right in removing it after I read it.
To anyone who wants to charge me with lying to Fran in first telling her that it could be posted and then changing my mind, I will accept that. I was wrong. I was not wrong in removing it. By removing it, I corrected an error in judgement that I made when I first allowed it to be posted.
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But, the bottom line is: Your silence tends to smear Linda.
Thank you for the thought, but silence doesn't "smear" anyone. Jesus was silent at his own trial.
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I have knowledge that Linda has not been involved in whats been posted or not been posted. Also, she does not even come to this site.
Johann:
You have told us that someone asked you to post Dr. A's letter. O.K. I believe that you are an honest person and are speaking the truth.
As a result of that statement, people believe that it was Linda who asked you to post that letter. I have stated that the Linda I once knew, who had seen her own daughter trashed by posting a private letter, would not have asked you to post the letter you posted.
By remaining silent, you foster the perception that Linda was involved in posting Dr. A's letter. One way or another, it is in the best interests of LInda that you make a clear statement related to any part that Linda may have had in your posting that letter. A failure to do so on your part will continue to contribute to the negative perception that people have about Linda.
You opened this can of worms, now speak the truth. If LInda had something to do with it, it will be no worse than it already is and she can share her thinking as to why she did so. If she had no part in your posting the letter, you will serve to clear her reputation.
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Fran has accused me of lying to her several years ago. I am not certain what she references as she and I have not discussed this in any depth. However, here is what she references, I THINK?
I once moderated a 3ABN discussion on CA. Fran asked me permission to post THE TELEVANGELIST. I breifly looked at it and it was posted. After it was posted I read it in detail. I promptly deleted it as I would not allow what I read to be posted. All in all it lasted in CA for 15 - 20 minutes. I think that she claims I lied to her because I removed it after reading it in detail and after telling her it could be posted.
The bottom line: I made a mistake. My brief review did not give me a clear picture of what was in the document. After reading it in detail, I removed it, which is exactly what should have been done. I was right to remove it. I was wrong in telling Fran that it could be posted at a time when I had not read it in detail and did not fully understand what was in the document. I was right in removing it after I read it.
To anyone who wants to charge me with lying to Fran in first telling her that it could be posted and then changing my mind, I will accept that. I was wrong. I was not wrong in removing it. By removing it, I corrected an error in judgement that I made when I first allowed it to be posted.
Your ego seems to grow by the minute Gregory. Do you honestly think you are helping this situation? No, you arent. I honestly think you are eating this up. Get off it. If Johann felt compelled to share that, who are you to judge? As Fran said the only one accountable for this being posted is the poster. We understand your oppinion you do not think it was right...so move on...
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sonshine said:
I have knowledge that Linda has not been involved in whats been posted or not been posted. Also, she does not even come to this site.
Good. Let Johanm clear her. I will believe what he says. If he says she was not involved in any way I will believe it. As I have said: The Linda I once knew would not have wanted that comment published.
However, as Johann remains silent there are those who believe his silence is a coverup for Linda being involved. That silence is not serving her well.
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By golly Gregory, I do believe you are calling me a liar. I told you Linda had nothing to do with it and that's not good enough for you? Interesting.
sonshine said:
I have knowledge that Linda has not been involved in whats been posted or not been posted. Also, she does not even come to this site.
Good. Let Johanm clear her. I will believe what he says. If he says she was not involved in any way I will believe it. As I have said: The Linda I once knew would not have wanted that comment published.
However, as Johann remains silent there are those who believe his silence is a coverup for Linda being involved. That silence is not serving her well.
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Samuelthomas: Fran accused me of lying to her. I acknowledged that I made an error in judgment. If my admission of making an error in judgement (which was the subject of your citation) makes you think I have a big ego, so be it. I can live with that. Continue to push me and you will continue to see me respond.
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One more thing I would like to add here, in my opinion Shelly Quinn is not one to talk bad about others. I have never heard of her saying anything negative about Linda or Alyssa, much less Nathan, and no one accusing 3abn of slandering Linda has ever supplied one quote written or televised of Shelly Quinn ever even mentioning them either before, or after this broadcast.
Are you therefore accusing Shelley of error when she referred to Salome being caught in a web of deceit? In what way did Salome or Herodias deceive anyone in the biblical story?
Remember, 3ABN refused to produce any information regarding that broadcast, which suggests culpability to me. At the very least, Danny should have nixed that script since it could easily be understood as being an attack against Linda and Alyssa.
If you don't think that broadcast was intended to be such an attack, you are extremely naive.
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Sonshine said:
By golly Gregory, I do believe you are calling me a liar. I told you Linda had nothing to do with it and that's not good enough for you? Interesting.
Absolutely not. I do not call you a liar. In fact I do not call you misinformed. What you said would clearly be true for the Linda I once knew.
Johann posted that he was asked to post the letter. His statement has caused people to believe that Linda requested him to post it. He needs to clairfy his statement by making a clear statemetn that Linda was not involved.
No, I do not imply that you are either a liar or misinformed. Thank you for allowing me to clairfy my intent.
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Sonshine said:
By golly Gregory, I do believe you are calling me a liar. I told you Linda had nothing to do with it and that's not good enough for you? Interesting.
Absolutely not. I do not call you a liar. In fact I do not call you misinformed. What you said would clearly be true for the Linda I once knew.
Johann posted that he was asked to post the letter. His statement has caused people to believe that Linda requested him to post it. He needs to clairfy his statement by making a clear statemetn that Linda was not involved.
No, I do not imply that you are either a liar or misinformed. Thank you for allowing me to clairfy my intent.
In other words, you want the name of the person who asked him to post it. That will be the next question from someone.
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Gregory, I appreciate that, but, it still sounds as tho you don't believe you got your answer. You got your answer, what difference is it who tells you? And, would you explain to me how what Johann said "leads people to believe that LINDA requested him to post it"??? You know, I've found throughout this WHOLE thing, people believe what they want to, not what the facts show or the character of a person shows. No matter what anyone says, if someone wants to believe it anyway, they will. And for those people, I could care less, because people who have common sense will KNOW what's true, and certainly by now. You can't help people who are simply ignorant or bias or have so much ego vested in the Sheltons/3ABN that they can never just accept what truth is. That's that. They are who they are and my guess is they live their lives making decisions about everything else important just the same way - what they WANT to believe.
Sonshine said:
By golly Gregory, I do believe you are calling me a liar. I told you Linda had nothing to do with it and that's not good enough for you? Interesting.
Absolutely not. I do not call you a liar. In fact I do not call you misinformed. What you said would clearly be true for the Linda I once knew.
Johann posted that he was asked to post the letter. His statement has caused people to believe that Linda requested him to post it. He needs to clairfy his statement by making a clear statemetn that Linda was not involved.
No, I do not imply that you are either a liar or misinformed. Thank you for allowing me to clairfy my intent.
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Sonshine, I agree that some people will not believe regardless of what is said. If Johann makes a statement one way or another, some will not beleive it.
Johann is rightly thought to be very close to Linda. It is that close relationship that he has with Linda that causes soome people to beleive that when he says he was asked to post, it was Linda who asked him to post. From that perspective, he is the only one who can clairfy his statement that he was asked to post the letter. He, as he wishes can identify the person who asked him. If he wishes he can tell us that Linda had nothing to do with the posting. She did not ask him to post. She did not provide a copy of the letter.
You may be 100% correct in your statement that Linda had nothing to do with it. But, Johann, due to his statement is the only person who can clairfy what he said.
His continued silence is not serving Linda well. His continued silence contributes to the perception that Linda was involved.
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I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt Linda cares what those people think, any more than they care what she thinks. They are people who will believe what is convenient to them, people to whom truth is irrelevant except as it can be made to fit the reality they choose to invent.
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The following email was relayed to me along with the request that it be posted as written. I have complied with that request and post it now exactly as I received it and with no commentary.
--------------
***
For my part, as an individual very much involved in the events under discussion, and as chairman of the board of 3ABN during the time under discussion, I hereby wish to express my sorrow for any wrongs I have done, or any wrongs done by other members of the 3ABN community to those who have been hurt.
***
Walter Thompson
Chairman, 3ABN Board of Directors
Confession ought to be specific, and there really is no reason why Walt can't be. Will Walt here apologize for his failure to contact any of Tommy's alleged victims or their families as requested by a non-Adventist pastor in 2003? Will Walt apologize here for the lies he has told about us behind our backs, and for supporting 3ABN's suit against us for blowing the whistle against alleged pedophile Tommy Shelton?
I would be interesting in hearing from Walt's wife as to what she thinks about Walt's involvement in conspiracies to cover up child molestation allegations against Tommy and to privately inure Danny Shelton.
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ex3abnemplooyee said:
In other words, you want the name of the person who asked him to post it. That will be the next question from someone.
That is up to Johann. He can provide the name if he wants to do so. Or, as I have said, he can make a clear statement that Linda had nothing to do with it. She did not ask him to post. She did not provide the copy of the letter. She did not know he was going to post, or she did know, she objected and he posted anyway.
I do not care what Johann says. I am simply asking for a clear statement about Linda. I do not care whether or not he gives a name.
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You have not told me what makes you or anyone even think that Linda would have something to do with it?
ex3abnemplooyee said:
In other words, you want the name of the person who asked him to post it. That will be the next question from someone.
That is up to Johann. He can provide the name if he wants to do so. Or, as I have said, he can make a clear statement that Lilnda had nothing to do with it. She did not ask him to post. She did not provide the copy of the letter. She did not know he was going to post, or she did know, she objected and he posted anyway.
I do not care what Johann says. I am simply asking for a clear statement about Linda. I do not care whether or not he gives a name.
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Sonshine, here is what I said to you as to why some peple believe Linda was involved:
Johann is rightly thought to be very close to Linda. It is that close relationship that he has with Linda that causes soome people to beleive that when he says he was asked to post, it was Linda who asked him to post.
You do not have to agree with it. But, in my opinion that is why. Johann needs to clairfy his statement. He does not need to give a name.
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Although I believe what sonshineonme says, I'm still trying to figure out why it even matters whether it was Linda or not.
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I think this is turning into cyber-harrassment. Gregory has made his point that he thinks Johann should respond. Johann has not responded. Johann does not HAVE to respond simply because Gregory thinks he should. Personally, I am intrigued as to who thinks it was Linda who asked that the letter be posted in the first place, as that thought never even crossed my mind until Gregory brought it up. So how about it, Gregory? Who exactly is contacting you saying they think Linda prompted Johann's post?
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Gregory, wouldn't the "logical" guess be if someone has to KNOW who asked Johann to post it for them, be Arild?? This is why, if the letters are between Arild and someone else I don't understand your thinking just because Johann and Linda are close it must be her? Lots of people are close to Johann, and I am very close to Linda. I still don't see it. Sorry.
Sonshine, here is what I said to you as to why some peple believe Linda was involved:
Johann is rightly thought to be very close to Linda. It is that close relationship that he has with Linda that causes soome people to beleive that when he says he was asked to post, it was Linda who asked him to post.
You do not have to agree with it. But, in my opinion that is why. Johann needs to clairfy his statement. He does not need to give a name.
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Was your last scentence a threat?
Samuelthomas: Fran accused me of lying to her. I acknowledged that I made an error in judgment. If my admission of making an error in judgement (which was the subject of your citation) makes you think I have a big ego, so be it. I can live with that. Continue to push me and you will continue to see me respond.
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It is interesting to me how the subject of Linda comes up periodically in these internet discussions. It has been my understanding that Linda has never had much to do with the discussions and didn't wish to.
On the other hand, the behind-the-scenes maneuvers that Gregory has alluded to that bring her up might be intended to divert discussion away from the letter of concern from Dr. Arild and any further exchanges between him and Mark Finley.
The letter that Johann was so kind as to post for us.
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I read Gregory's Leaning toward Danny's side. Easy to figure out. Linda would have known about the Thompson's. He isn't even concerned about Brandy. Then he demands that Dr A and Johann tell who asked them to post? He is not looking to protect Linda. He should have known Linda would not do that! She is on the same higher road she has been on for such a long time.
So I would say he is trying to get info about Linda and find out who it was that let the cats out of the bag! Once he gets that info he is will post it and let Danny do what he does so well. Seek and Destroy!
By the way Greg; The evangelist was sent to you to review and you could post it. I did not shed a tear over that. I expected it. That did not upset me. However, when a pastor/chaplain lies to me, the game is over! I was right. Your spiritual side is absent as you come here with demands and even speak about Linda. Needless to say, You lost me way back when I found out you had bold faced lied to me. You will never get any info from me ever again!
However, you have shown me there must be fire where there is smoke? There must be more that was not said because you started leaning on your straddled fence the way of Danny! Gregory, I will comment that you owe apologies to quite a few people yourself. I won't demand it because your "make errors in judgement" you are making excuses for your actions. Think Chaplain!
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It has sickened me throughout these past years that even if I relate a personal experience that I witnessed there will be someone who concludes that this is something Linda must have told me, or that she is the source of these false rumors.
Let me remind you that for weeks before and after Linda and Danny's divorce I would receive several e-mail from Danny each day where he told me whatever came to his mind. Based on these I drew certain conclusions. Even there Linda has been accused of being my source. Is this some kind of virus that inflicts the brain?
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Sister, two wrong still dont make a right. This is why I am for a truce. Both incidents were unacceptable the hurt and harm to Linda's reutationthrough lies, and the pain now caused to WT and his family through this unnecessary revelation. Each time, the other party points to the pain of Linda, or of WT, or whomever is on their side.l Neither should have been posted. Neither hurt inflicted. God say, Vengance is mine". That means we don't get to do payback.
But wait, let me go back. i missed something important here. Sister, you mean to tell me that ALL the so called evidence Danny and his crew claimed to have and would release only in a court of law, never, ever sufaced, even in court, even after LInda asked that it be released? I knew they were lyin'! LOL!!!
3D said:
Here's the heartfelt answer and challenge to Linda's friend, Dr. Arild Abrahamsen to document his accusations, and prove them, and WT's statement that "Of course, he will not, for he cannot. They do not exist, and never have." which you responded to, and called "spin". aka - a lie.
I remember when Linda Shelton's reputation was slandered by false accusations. I remember the pain it caused not only Linda, also but her family. She lost her employment, her accusers actively attempted to stop any opportunity she was offered for Christian ministry. I remember when both she and her daughter were accused on an international television broadcast of bearing false witness against Danny, although Alyssa was the victim of sexual molestation by Danny Shelton, the man who had raised her as a daughter (emotionally that makes it more like incest). All the time Danny claimed to have evidence concerning Linda's "sin". When Linda asked Danny and the board of 3ABN to release the evidence publically, knowing that no evidence existed, they refused.
I agree, it would have been better if the information released about Walt Thompson had not been presented here, without the documentation to support the accusations. But what about the pain that Linda and her children have endured, not for just a few days on an obscure website, but televised by 3ABN over the entire world? Nor for only a few days, but for years. I feel pity for the Thompson family over the death of their child. I feel pity for Linda Shelton and her children for the humiliation and the murdering of their reputations.
This all started with a unscrupulous man who decided he wanted to put away his wife, be viewed as the injured party Bibically and had no problem manufacturing lies where no evidence existed. For what reason? Only God and Danny know for certain...
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Well, I was just a waiting until someone came up with the right scenario, all was close but Fran basically you got the reasoning of all whats going on here as far as I can see. Had to set back and just watch it get closer and closer to see if my brain is still working as the rest and sure enough.
First of all, the key words here are the "people rightly thought". This clarifies the "clan" that no doubt Gregory stands with. Yes, the proof is the undeniable "hard pressure" that is being used to tighten down over and over is a good law suit against "who did this to me" attitude that the "hard pressure" is directed by what is so obvious "the one that has "lost his head". Yes, Fran that is the point, so he can use his "freely given money" to use to destroy the one who dare leak anything against him.
I want to also bring out a point here just for the reasoning of what has been done to Linda, no matter what was done on her part. Even if her part was true as they claim, how could anyone live with the corruptions going on behind the scene and cover ups.
I decided to go into a lot of different links that normally I don't have time to do. What I have really kept in mind from some info presented in IRS documents and statements of how much DS wages per year that I found elsewhere, what he has spent from other reporters for legal fees, above and beyond what his so called salary "claims" of 100K or so is quite amazing.
The fact is "the real nice honey coated letter" of the "clan" which was deadly and threatening to forced "shut up" was infact no more then a years wages for "20 years of work". Oh, and they claim she did the programming. don't they copy that still? yes they certainly do. She was the brains. I can tell you for a fact not many women would settle for that! Now as some of you see the connection for "hard pressure" to insist for the info of who done what? He frauded her of her earned assets because of His roving "lifestyle". Be careful there Johann, don't do it. and let the Info come and drive them nuts to where all can be found and justified. (laugh) as paranoid as DS is he probably thinks "the shadow knows". It's coming out in Gregory's hard pressuring.
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Yes, it's obvious that Gregory has been the one nominated to try to get the info this time. Everyone else has vanished. Come on people, if you're gonna play this game at least try not to be so obvious about it. :ROFL:
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Let me say once again: The Linda that I once knew would not have wanted Johann to have posted that comment about the Thompson's daughter. Linda had both her daughter and Nathan's story posted on the Internet for all to read. It was hurtful to have that done. She would have felt the same pain over what Johann posted. Others have believed that since Johann posted it the information must have come from Linda. I believe that it is in the best interests of Linda for Johann to clairfy. It looks like he is not going to do so. O.K.
Fran mentions Brandy: I have posted on Brandy in the past. She evidently does not remember those posts. The essence of my posts on Brandy was just as has been my focus here: she has been baptized, foget her past, she should not be the central focus of issues people have with 3-ABN and Danny Shelton, under the firestorm of the Internet how could anyone expect she to survive in her marriage to Danny--don't blame either she or Danny.
By the way: Let me say that 3-ABN, Danny and Dr.Thompson did very well in their treatment of the breakup of the marriage of Danny and Brandy. They are to be commended for the way they dwelt with it. But this is just my thought.
It has been said that I straddle the fence and and now seen to lean on the side of Danny: I have always had a very narrow focus. That focus has been Linda and what happened to her. I have never focused on either Danny or 3-ABN. I call it like I see it. I have recently called Dr. Thompson a good man (who has contributed much to the SDA Church) who made some poor decisions, without malice, because I see it that way. I have publicly stated in the past that I neither criticize Danny for the divorce nor for his marriage to Brandy because the marriage was dead. No one is either 100% pure or 100% evil. If any want to see me "selling out" and going over to Danny's side, so be it. I find it interesting as there are clearly those who have defended 3-ABN who do not see me in that light.
I do not personalize stuff, generally. I do not know whether or not I will ever meet either Dr. Thompson, or Johann, in this life. But, if I do I will be able to sit down with either of them, and thank them for their years of service to the SDA Chruch and their positive contribution. I have differed with each of thim on some matters. but, if I meet them I will not be talking to either of them in an attempt to throw bricks at them. They are both good people with whom I differ on some things.
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Let me say once again: The Linda that I once knew would not have wanted Johann to have posted that comment about the Thompson's daughter. Linda had both her daughter and Nathan's story posted on the Internet for all to read. It was hurtful to have that done. She would have felt the same pain over what Johann posted. Others have believed that since Johann posted it the information must have come from Linda. I believe that it is in the best interests of Linda for Johann to clairfy. It looks like he is not going to do so. O.K.
I think it has been clearly stated that Linda had nothing to do with the post, it is your choice to ignore that. As it appears you have.
Fran mentions Brandy: I have posted on Brandy in the past. She evidently does not remember those posts. The essence of my posts on Brandy was just as has been my focus here: she has been baptized, foget her past, she should not be the central focus of issues people have with 3-ABN and Danny Shelton, under the firestorm of the Internet how could anyone expect she to survive in her marriage to Danny--don't blame either she or Danny.
So it's the internets fault that a divorce was warranted? Sorry, but my Bible tells me different.
By the way: Let me say that 3-ABN, Danny and Dr.Thompson did very well in their treatment of the breakup of the marriage of Danny and Brandy. They are to be commended for the way they dwelt with it. But this is just my thought.Why now the change? Why couldn't they have handled the divorce with Linda with the same manner of dignity as you point out?
It has been said that I straddle the fence and and now seen to lean on the side of Danny: I have always had a very narrow focus. That focus has been Linda and what happened to her. I have never focused on either Danny or 3-ABN. I call it like I see it. I have recently called Dr. Thompson a good man (who has contributed much to the SDA Church) who made some poor decisions, without malice, because I see it that way. I have publicly stated in the past that I neither criticize Danny for the divorce nor for his marriage to Brandy because the marriage was dead. No one is either 100% pure or 100% evil. If any want to see me "selling out" and going over to Danny's side, so be it. I find it interesting as there are clearly those who have defended 3-ABN who do not see me in that light.
I don't see you as selling out. As I have stated before, from your post I don't even think you know where you stand.
I do not personalize stuff, generally. I do not know whether or not I will ever meet either Dr. Thompson, or Johann, in this life. But, if I do I will be able to sit down with either of them, and thank them for their years of service to the SDA Chruch and their positive contribution. I have differed with each of thim on some matters. but, if I meet them I will not be talking to either of them in an attempt to throw bricks at them. They are both good people with whom I differ on some things.
Then why "throw bricks" at Johann now? I don't understand why you feel so compeled that he answer you.
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It has sickened me throughout these past years that even if I relate a personal experience that I witnessed there will be someone who concludes that this is something Linda must have told me, or that she is the source of these false rumors.
Let me remind you that for weeks before and after Linda and Danny's divorce I would receive several e-mail from Danny each day where he told me whatever came to his mind. Based on these I drew certain conclusions. Even there Linda has been accused of being my source. Is this some kind of virus that inflicts the brain?
Perhaps you failed to read this, Gregory?
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People aren't logical when discussing these issues. How often haven't I heard these years
- It is impossible for Johann to know what was going on because he was thousands of miles away when it happened. We at 3ABN were close enough to see what happened.
This in spite of the fact that
1. this whole "affair" started in our kitchen at 3ABN with Nathan, Dr. Arild Abrahamsen, and Linda Shelton were present.
2. I saw again Nathan, his mother Linda, and Brenda at Dr. Arild Abrhamsen's place in Norway where Brenda gathered the material for her stories.
3. As things developed I received more than a hundred e-mail from Danny and from Linda, I was in phone conversations with Linda, Danny, Walt Thompson, and others involved.
4. I was in the 3ABN area and had talks with Danny Shelton, Walt Thompson, John Lomacang, Nick Miller - just to name some of the main individuals´ - at the camp meeting time in 2004 and when Linda got fired from 3ABN.
5. Then my wife, Irmgard, and I spent all that time with Dr. Arild in Norway that Danny claimed he had been with Linda in Florida. Therefore I knew that Danny was not telling the truth. He and Brenda were just brewing up some stories to make it possible for Danny to marry someone else - and this is also what Danny wrote me telling me the only reason he accepted some counseling was to find reasons why he could marry someone else. This was at the time when Linda was still doing all she could to save the marriage. What does that tell you? No consideration of any feelings?
6. Therefore I'd maintain that I saw/experienced more first hand of what was going on than most of the people sitting in an office at 3ABN who mainly heard the chants of Danny Shelton and Walt Thompson why Linda was fired.
PS Somehow my posting delivered several misspelled words which I now have corrected without making any other changes.
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Sister, you mean to tell me that ALL the so called evidence Danny and his crew claimed to have and would release only in a court of law, never, ever sufaced, even in court, even after LInda asked that it be released? I knew they were lyin'! LOL!!!
I specifically requested copies of the video, audio, and written evidence against Linda that Danny and Walt and company claimed to have, and never received a thing. In fact, I could not identify one single document that Danny Shelton had produced in response to my requests to produce.
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People aren't logical when discussing these issues. How often haven't I heard these years
- It is impossible for Johann to know what was going on because he was thousands of miles away when it happened. We at 3ABN were close enough to see what happened.
This in spite of the fact that
1. this whole "affair" started in our kitchen at 3ABN with Nathan, Dr. Arild Abrahamsen, and Linda Shelton were present.
2. I saw again Nathan, his mother Linda, and Brenda at Dr. Arild Abrhamsen's place in Norway where Brenda gathered the material for her stories.
3. As things developed I received more than a hundred e-mail from Danny and from Linda, I was in phone conversations with Linda, Danny, Walt Thompson, and others involved.
4. I was in the 3ABN area and had talks with Danny Shelton, Walt Thompson, John Lomacang, Nick Miller - just to name some of the main individuals´ - at the camp meeting time in 2004 and when Linda got fired from 3ABN.
5. Then my wife, Irmgard, and I spent all that time with Dr. Arild in Norway that Danny claimed he had been with Linda in Florida. Therefore I knew that Danny was not telling the truth. He and Brenda were just brewing up some stories to make it possible for Danny to marry someone else - and this is also what Danny wrote me telling me the only reason he accepted some counseling was to find reasons why he could marry someone else. This was at the time when Linda was still doing all she could to save the marriage. What does that tell you? No consideration of any feelings?
6. Therefore I'd maintain that I saw/experienced more first hand of what was going on than most of the people sitting in an office at 3ABN who mainly heard the chants of Danny Shelton and Walt Thompson why Linda was fired.
Johann, that is a convincing report of how you had firsthand knowledge of what was going on!
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Samuel, hope you don't mind me doing this additional comment on what you already have done in blue, I will do mine in red. Thought this was a good example of how many disagreements can be readily seen on such comments.
Let me say once again: The Linda that I once knew would not have wanted Johann to have posted that comment about the Thompson's daughter. (Here it goes again, It is beyond question that LS even knows this is going on.) Linda had both her daughter and Nathan's story posted on the Internet for all to read. (Did you think she should have not stood up to give any explanation of what DS did to give her a hard time? so DS could look perfect in this marriage?) It was hurtful to have that done. (but the truth) She would have felt the same pain over what Johann posted. Others have believed that since Johann posted it the information must have come from Linda. (that goes to show the caliber of people that are being hung around with. They all speculate of what they do not know. I believe your pressure is not from Linda's Character of how you think but from the panic of DS.) I believe that it is in the best interests of Linda for Johann to clairfy. ( How so? to appease the ones that "crowned her"?) It looks like he is not going to do so. (With you making your statements sure did give give anxiety for your intent whether you focus that far or not.) O.K.
I think it has been clearly stated that Linda had nothing to do with the post, it is your choice to ignore that. As it appears you have.
Fran mentions Brandy: I have posted on Brandy in the past. She evidently does not remember those posts. The essence of my posts on Brandy was just as has been my focus here: she has been baptized,(oh, so there is a change because of it? how about in love with another man?) foget her past, she should not be the central focus of issues people have with 3-ABN and Danny Shelton, under the firestorm of the Internet how could anyone expect she to survive in her marriage to Danny--don't blame either she or Danny. Yes, we need to blame the devil. The devil made them do it. Your focus is very narrow. Just a continuation of bad choices because of bad deeds. Did you ever read EGW on using background to the best you can for what God wants in a marriage. Have you read all what happened when the Biblical men mingled with wrong women. Yes, your focus is narrow
So it's the internets fault that a divorce was warranted? Sorry, but my Bible tells me different.
By the way: Let me say that 3-ABN, Danny and Dr.Thompson did very well in their treatment of the breakup of the marriage of Danny and Brandy. ( They had no choice for what chance again could they be under fire if she told what she knew.) They are to be commended for the way they dwelt with it. (you mean the cover up?) But this is just my thought.Why now the change? Why couldn't they have handled the divorce with Linda with the same manner of dignity as you point out?
It has been said that I straddle the fence (yes, it definitely shows that from script.)and and now seen to lean on the side of Danny: (absolutely) I have always had a very narrow focus. (Yes not to see and stand for what the picture really is, while your stance should have been protecting the pew money but then how could you?) That focus has been Linda and what happened to her. (so what have you done about your focus?) I have never focused on either Danny or 3-ABN. ( that is where you have made grave mistake by not focusing on background again for taking a stance that you have.) I call it like I see it. (but you choose not to see it.) I have recently called Dr. Thompson a good man (who has contributed much to the SDA Church) (so many do as their characters cry out for recognition how ever they can get it. many of those are in the church and do other things behind the scenes) who made some poor decisions, without malice, (without malice?? you mean to the people who freely gave their funds?? What malice to them, and who in the "clan" cares?) because I see it that way. I have publicly stated in the past that I neither criticize Danny for the divorce nor for his marriage to Brandy (again a lack of background check but cheap lusts cost him again in characterization) because the marriage was dead. ( yep, she did not get as much out of the deal as she thought and I think the scheme back fired. serves him right. what goes around comes around) No one is either 100% pure or 100% evil. (true, there is intentional sin and unintentional sin. Lust is Intentional.) If any want to see me "selling out" and going over to Danny's side, so be it. (you seem confused about it) I find it interesting as there are clearly those who have defended 3-ABN who do not see me in that light. (so they speak the truth on all things? I would say they are angry because they do not know for sure how far they can trust you? You probably know much and think your way of straddling is not assured in anything.)
I don't see you as selling out. As I have stated before, from your post I don't even think you know where you stand.
I do not personalize stuff, generally. (How do you know then what is right and what is wrong in dealing with people? I do not know whether or not I will ever meet either Dr. Thompson, or Johann, in this life. But, if I do I will be able to sit down with either of them, and thank them for their years of service to the SDA Chruch and their positive contribution. (wait a minute, you sound like the judge here.) I have differed with each of thim on some matters. but, (no matter, huh?) if I meet them I will not be talking to either of them in an attempt to throw bricks at them. They are both good people with whom I differ on some things. (all depends on what side of the fence your teetering on.)
Then why "throw bricks" at Johann now? I don't understand why you feel so compeled that he answer you.
Johann would be wise to give no info on this constant (hard pressure) for the very reasons Gregory came on here to post. That gave the red flags. I hope this is not the Gregory that I think it is.
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Nope, don't mind at all. His comments become more obsured each time he writes. Glad others are able to find the flaws in his insinuations as well. :-X
Samuel, hope you don't mind me doing this additional comment on what you already have done in blue, I will do mine in red. Thought this was a good example of how many disagreements can be readily seen on such comments.
Let me say once again: The Linda that I once knew would not have wanted Johann to have posted that comment about the Thompson's daughter. (Here it goes again, It is beyond question that LS even knows this is going on.) Linda had both her daughter and Nathan's story posted on the Internet for all to read. (Did you think she should have not stood up to give any explanation of what DS did to give her a hard time? so DS could look perfect in this marriage?) It was hurtful to have that done. (but the truth) She would have felt the same pain over what Johann posted. Others have believed that since Johann posted it the information must have come from Linda. (that goes to show the caliber of people that are being hung around with. They all speculate of what they do not know. I believe your pressure is not from Linda's Character of how you think but from the panic of DS.) I believe that it is in the best interests of Linda for Johann to clairfy. ( How so? to appease the ones that "crowned her"?) It looks like he is not going to do so. (With you making your statements sure did give give anxiety for your intent whether you focus that far or not.) O.K.
I think it has been clearly stated that Linda had nothing to do with the post, it is your choice to ignore that. As it appears you have.
Fran mentions Brandy: I have posted on Brandy in the past. She evidently does not remember those posts. The essence of my posts on Brandy was just as has been my focus here: she has been baptized,(oh, so there is a change because of it? how about in love with another man?) foget her past, she should not be the central focus of issues people have with 3-ABN and Danny Shelton, under the firestorm of the Internet how could anyone expect she to survive in her marriage to Danny--don't blame either she or Danny. Yes, we need to blame the devil. The devil made them do it. Your focus is very narrow. Just a continuation of bad choices because of bad deeds. Did you ever read EGW on using background to the best you can for what God wants in a marriage. Have you read all what happened when the Biblical men mingled with wrong women. Yes, your focus is narrow
So it's the internets fault that a divorce was warranted? Sorry, but my Bible tells me different.
By the way: Let me say that 3-ABN, Danny and Dr.Thompson did very well in their treatment of the breakup of the marriage of Danny and Brandy. ( They had no choice for what chance again could they be under fire if she told what she knew.) They are to be commended for the way they dwelt with it. (you mean the cover up?) But this is just my thought.Why now the change? Why couldn't they have handled the divorce with Linda with the same manner of dignity as you point out?
It has been said that I straddle the fence (yes, it definitely shows that from script.)and and now seen to lean on the side of Danny: (absolutely) I have always had a very narrow focus. (Yes not to see and stand for what the picture really is, while your stance should have been protecting the pew money but then how could you?) That focus has been Linda and what happened to her. (so what have you done about your focus?) I have never focused on either Danny or 3-ABN. ( that is where you have made grave mistake by not focusing on background again for taking a stance that you have.) I call it like I see it. (but you choose not to see it.) I have recently called Dr. Thompson a good man (who has contributed much to the SDA Church) (so many do as their characters cry out for recognition how ever they can get it. many of those are in the church and do other things behind the scenes) who made some poor decisions, without malice, (without malice?? you mean to the people who freely gave their funds?? What malice to them, and who in the "clan" cares?) because I see it that way. I have publicly stated in the past that I neither criticize Danny for the divorce nor for his marriage to Brandy (again a lack of background check but cheap lusts cost him again in characterization) because the marriage was dead. ( yep, she did not get as much out of the deal as she thought and I think the scheme back fired. serves him right. what goes around comes around) No one is either 100% pure or 100% evil. (true, there is intentional sin and unintentional sin. Lust is Intentional.) If any want to see me "selling out" and going over to Danny's side, so be it. (you seem confused about it) I find it interesting as there are clearly those who have defended 3-ABN who do not see me in that light. (so they speak the truth on all things? I would say they are angry because they do not know for sure how far they can trust you? You probably know much and think your way of straddling is not assured in anything.)
I don't see you as selling out. As I have stated before, from your post I don't even think you know where you stand.
I do not personalize stuff, generally. (How do you know then what is right and what is wrong in dealing with people? I do not know whether or not I will ever meet either Dr. Thompson, or Johann, in this life. But, if I do I will be able to sit down with either of them, and thank them for their years of service to the SDA Chruch and their positive contribution. (wait a minute, you sound like the judge here.) I have differed with each of thim on some matters. but, (no matter, huh?) if I meet them I will not be talking to either of them in an attempt to throw bricks at them. They are both good people with whom I differ on some things. (all depends on what side of the fence your teetering on.)
Then why "throw bricks" at Johann now? I don't understand why you feel so compeled that he answer you.
Johann would be wise to give no info on this constant (hard pressure) for the very reasons Gregory came on here to post. That gave the red flags. I hope this is not the Gregory that I think it is.
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A few questions I would like to ask Gregory:
1. Seeing that you are no longer "Lindas spokesman" why are you so concerned?
2. What dog do you have in this fight? Apparently it isn't one of concern for Linda.
3. How, can you now seem to be in favor of WT after how Linda was treated? (I find that appauling.)
4. Why are you so vehmently asking that Johann state where he received his information? (Is it because you are jealous you didn't get this information? or What is it?)
5. It has repeatedly been stated here that Linda had nothing to do with that. Isn't that the answer you wanted? If not what more do you request?
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I disagree with the ideas being floated about Gregory. It is possible to agree that one side is wrong and the other right in the fundamental reason(s) why the sides became sides, yet disagree with the strategies and tactics of the side you believe to be in the right. Because I agree with someone on one matter, or even most matters, doesn't mean that I will agree with them on everything.
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I also disagree with the ideas being said about Gregory. As far as I am concerned, he isn't on anybody's side, just as I am not on anybody's side.
In regards to myself, I am interested in the truth, whichever side or sides the truth points to.
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same here. but the truth is like getting nails out of cement. But it will come as long as people seek truth because of the "funds given" . I learn something new about everyday or so. There are many links out there and I in just the last few weeks have ventured into them.
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Gregory:
After much prayer and thought, I feel I owe you an apology. While I still stand steadfast on most of my opinion that I have shared, I feel that it went to far.
I believe that you are an honest man, and that you stand on your principles which I respect. Although, I believe where I stand has been made evident, I do not see anything profitable of questioning your motives. I do disagree with you on a few things, but think this was taken to far by both sides.
I believe we are all here to find the truth, finding the truth is not an easy thing to accomplish, but my belief is it should remain civil, and without intentional damage to one particular person.
Again, I sincerely apologize for the lack of Christian character I believe I exhibited.
--Edited to fix a couple of errors.--
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You are gracious. I do not attribute malice to your comments.
Honest people can disagree and see things differently.
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Facts are one thing that I think we should stick to.
Assumption is another thing that can make a something not so nice out of you and me as in assume
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Mark Finley's last campaign before retiring as a vice president in a few days:
http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=3414
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I have been asked to post the following item:
An Open Letter to Walt Thompson;
I do not have the time or the interest to get involved in internet discussions. Yet I feel compelled to correct some errors here.
First of all, it has never been my intention for the world to see my private correspondence with Mark Finley, thus, I am not interested in responding to the information exchanged here by those who have viewed it. It has been the scheme of you and others at 3ABN to divert the people’s attention from the real issues that need the attention of the Church at large. I will not allow that to happen here. But I will make the comment that I find it extremely interesting that you are now demanding documentation and proof regarding information about YOU, but you failed to desire any documentation or proof when it came to YOUR dealings with Linda Shelton.(We have asked you for that for 6 years without getting anything)
The Pharisees were very skillful with their words. If one did not listen closely one might think they were very Godly men. But the THINKING people who examined the outcome of their words and actions and could judge their fruit. I can recall the 3ABN Campmeeting of 2004 where Pastor Johann Thorvalsson and myself were threatened with jail if we returned. We were there to talk with 3ABN Board members to discuss with them your actions and the actions of Danny Shelton against Linda Shelton. It appeared there was a vile scheme being performed to eliminate the Vice-President. Yet strangely enough we were kicked off the premises with no opportunity to correct the errors. Later I recall Linda writing several letters to you asking why she was fired. You replied with copies of contracts which were forced upon her when she was being abused in the home and also literally forced to leave by her husband without a penny. You did not often meet with Linda during the two months she was suspended from the ministry, but when you did she made it very clear to you how she was being treated in the home. You witnessed Danny trashing Linda for hours at a time before other witnesses and you still did nothing…except support a husband who was living contrary to the Word of God.
What followed was even worse. You were present at several 3ABN staff meetings where Linda was trashed in front of all of her employees. Employees were threatened with their jobs and/or legal action if any talked to Linda. You endorsed the mailing of 180,000 letters, regarding Linda, to the 3ABN donors discrediting her. You sent out hundreds of personal letters filled with lies, slander and libel utterly destroying Linda’s reputation and ministry. You were aware of those at the ministry who answered the phone doing the same. So there was a HUGE marketing agenda at 3ABN to destroy her life, occupation, ministry, social status within her Church through television, radio, newsletters, the website and representatives out in the field. And today your response is “…things will remain a mystery so long as life may last here on earth. Only in that better land may we hope to see truth in all of its facets… I wish to express sorrow for any wrongs I have done or any wrongs done by other members of the 3ABN community to those who have been hurt.” Walt Thompson…I AM NOT BUYING IT!! I have seen and heard too much!! You write…”never has there been the least intent to mislead or cause pain…” How about taking a second look at all you have written and said about Linda with no valid justification at all. If I were you I would be seeking to make some type of restitution to Linda Shelton before standing before a Holy God on Judgment Day.
There are times when apologies are NOT enough. It was nothing less than MURDER, only worse, because Linda had to live to face the results as a social outcast in the SDA community…for doing NO WRONG, AND YOU KNOW IT ! I am aware that Linda has suffered enormous LOSS at your hands. Her health suffered. She would have lost her life if not for treatments that were able to counteract the physical ailments. Today she has financial pressures because of her loss of employment. She has experienced 3ABN Board members and representatives attempting to stop any and all of her attempts to revive her ministry and occupation. She has an ex-husband who has been fighting her in court for 6 years ,with 4 attorneys,because he doesn’t want to pay her a fair marital settlement, but you and 3ABN still support and promote the man on worldwide television. And the list goes on and on and on.
It is my suggestion that 3ABN make an attempt at making things right. Obviously the ministry is suffering financially. The Lord cannot bless all that has happened and is still happening there with a leadership that is lying, sending out false accusations and false rumors purposely. Restitution must be made. A statement needs to be made clearing Linda’s name. This is a beginning at mending the gaping wound.
I hope you will prayerfully consider these words. They are words of truth with the motive of a peaceful conclusion.
Respectfully,
Dr. Arild Abrahamsen
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Interesting point! Walt demands documentation regarding whether he performed an abortion on his daughter while refusing to produce documentation regarding Linda's guilt at Linda's request! Isn't that how one spells h-y-p-c-r-i-t-i-c-a-l?
Will 3ABN start living up to its slogan: Mending Broken People? Will a genuine apology now be issued? Will Walt have a change of heart and fall upon the Rock and be broken? Will Walt in his sunset years be thoroughly converted? Will Walt stop spreading lies and slander behind the backs of those he disagrees with?
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Interesting point! Walt demands documentation regarding whether he performed an abortion on his daughter while refusing to produce documentation regarding Linda's guilt at Linda's request! Isn't that how one spells h-y-p-c-r-i-t-i-c-a-l?
Certainly is hypocritical!
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Mark Finley's last campaign before retiring as a vice president in a few days:
http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=3414
Very interesting that Mark Finley is retiring at this propitious moment.
Also, quite a "puff piece" on him in the Review...almost sounds like an obituary in some ways.
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I have a question? Since there were all these mass emails and mailings against Linda, doesn't anyone on this site still have a copy to prove to others on this site, that Danny and 3abn did indeed, have it out for Linda? Maybe Dr. A still has a letter.
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Artiste said:
Very interesting that Mark Finley is retiring at this propitious moment.
Also, quite a "puff piece" on him in the Review...almost sounds like an obituary in some ways.
Elder Finley is an elected official of the General Conference. Elected officials genrally retire in a manner that allows their replacement to be elected at a General Conference session as it is considered to be more fair to the process than to have the replacement appointed. The timing is probably just that Finley did not want to serve for another five years. Yes, this does not always happen and one can probably point to times when it did not happen.
Puff piece: No person is either 100% perfect or 100% imperfect. Elder Finley has made major contributions to the work and ministry of the SDA Chruch. Those who may criticize him in some aspects should in honesty acknowledge his positive contributions of major impact upon our denominational life and ministry.
The same can be said for Dr. Thompson of 3-ABN. I think that he made some poor decisions that were simply wrong and I have stated such. At the same time he has made a positinve contribution in many ways to the mission and ministry of the SDA Church and to the work of our Lord on Earth. In fairness and honesty those positive contributions should be acknowledged.
Abortion: It was wrong to involve the Thompson's daughter in the discussion as has been done. Those who did so should apologize to the Thompson famly should be accepted as fact. This issue should b dropped. It should not be a part of the public discussion.
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Gregory,
I think Dr. A made a valid point: Walt publicly demanded the documentation Dr. A claimed he had regarding the alleged abortion, but still refuses to produce the evidence of Linda's guilt.
If Walt wants the discussion regarding the alleged abortion dropped entirely, then he should finally and belatedly produce the evidence of Linda's guilt. Until he does, this point Dr. A has publicly raised regarding Walt's demand for documentation is on the table and should not be dropped.
It's a valid point. Walt may not like it being asked, but he was the one who publicly demanded the documentation. He should never have made the demand if he didn't want the point to be made.
As far as Walt's contributions to the Lord's work goes, consider that Ezek. 3:20 states, "When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity ... his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered."
Walt is in his sunset years, and he should cease lying and slandering people behind their backs, apologize for covering up the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton, and apologize for suing us. I'm sure the many others he has wronged can add to the list.
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I have a question? Since there were all these mass emails and mailings against Linda, doesn't anyone on this site still have a copy to prove to others on this site, that Danny and 3abn did indeed, have it out for Linda? Maybe Dr. A still has a letter.
Good question, but they don't have such a letter. The only letter 3ABN mailed out was one written in response to the article published in a SDA independent new magazine, called "AToday" which was according to them published in reply to Linda's website, the letters from Linda mailed out allegedly from her by her supporters/defenders, and the public posts they were making on her behalf after hearing from her, and their interviews with Linda's advocates, ( Johann Thorvaldsson, and Darrell Mundall, etc). The only responsive broadcast 3ABN ever made was also after that and in response to the same as viewers had all kinds of questions caused by Linda's people making all public.
The documents and dates don't lie.
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Again, Johann is asked to post a letter, but doesn't reveal who asked him. Someone is obviously operating in the shadows and hiding, why else ask Johann, when they could be upfront and honest and just post it themselves? And how did this person who asked Johann to post this even know about it, if Dr A is telling the truth that he didn't intend for the world to see it, as his last shared letter already got posted to the world?
Johann friend to Dr A, and Linda, and advocate for both reveals here that it wasn't Dr A who asked him to post his letters, so that narrows the possibilities of who this shadow instigator is who is asking him to make claimed private correspondence public here. And raises the questions of why they are doing so, and why do they need to be hidden and unidentified? Johann also reveals something further, Dr A claims: "First of all, it has never been my intention for the world to see my private correspondence with Mark Finley, thus, I am not interested in responding to the information exchanged here by those who have viewed it..." but instead of writing privately to Dr T? Dr A writes an "open letter" to all, and does respond for the apparent benefit of others (and not Dr T) and somehow here is Johann again in possession of his private correspondence and posting his " open letter" to all and making it public again, without Dr A's permission? Who could have asked him to post it and why would he do so, apparently against Dr A's claims and expressed wishes about that? And if Dr A really didn't want it public, why did he again give it to others who apparently already betrayed and went against his previous wishes about that? Something smells fishy to me...
Things that make you go hmmm...
I have been asked to post the following item:
An Open Letter to Walt Thompson;
I do not have the time or the interest to get involved in internet discussions. Yet I feel compelled to correct some errors here.
First of all, it has never been my intention for the world to see my private correspondence with Mark Finley, thus, I am not interested in responding to the information exchanged here by those who have viewed it...
Respectfully,
Dr. Arild Abrahamsen
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Gregory,
I think Dr. A made a valid point: Walt publicly demanded the documentation Dr. A claimed he had regarding the alleged abortion, but still refuses to produce the evidence of Linda's guilt.
If Walt wants the discussion regarding the alleged abortion dropped entirely, then he should finally and belatedly produce the evidence of Linda's guilt. Until he does, this point Dr. A has publicly raised regarding Walt's demand for documentation is on the table and should not be dropped.
It's a valid point. Walt may not like it being asked, but he was the one who publicly demanded the documentation. He should never have made the demand if he didn't want the point to be made...
Apart from the fact that Linda's and Danny's reasons for divorcing were not the same reasons that the 3ABN board voted to terminate her employment and position on the board,(Dr Walter Thompson, the chairman of the 3ABN board, has already , long ago, stated that she was fired for defiance of the board ( her employer) and that she wasn't fired for adultery, and he also added that although the board had ample information to suggest adultery, that they had no proof. ie; hadn't seen Linda and the Dr in bed together, and he plainly said that they hadn't ever accused her of adulteryt. So it isn't up to him to prove Linda is an adulteress, as she allegedly demanded. It's smoke and mirrors from her and her defenders so they can make her a victim and martyr for the gullible masses, and find fault with 3ABN); the bible clearly says "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and return evil with good" etc. If Bob Pickle really believes what he is attempting to argue here it is quite obvious he is ignoring biblical principles and resorting to an eye for an eye, (do unto others as you think they did to you -or another- or as you think they deserve) and he is promoting the ends justifies the means. Not Christian. Bob Pickle, imho, has left the straight and narrow path in his obsessive need to justify the path he has taken and prove himself righteous and justified. He's not even close to right here in his thinking, arguments or justifications of the wrong committed by Dr A and Johann and the shadowy accomplice hiding in the dark and protected here...
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So 3AB- you are saying that you have been involved in 3abn and have known DS and LS long enough to know that there were NO mass mailings, NO mass emailings from the SDA church and 3abn and NO mass anything involved AGAINST LS about her and DR. A? I am NOT taking sides- believe me,as I DO NOT KNOW anyone involved, except a passing knowledge of TS and that's how I got to this site.. I am just courious. There is just so much stuff floating around, I want to hear it from the "horses mouth" :horse:
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So 3AB- you are saying that you have been involved in 3abn and have known DS and LS long enough to know that there were NO mass mailings, NO mass emailings from the SDA church and 3abn and NO mass anything involved AGAINST LS about her and DR. A? I am NOT taking sides- believe me,as I DO NOT KNOW anyone involved, except a passing knowledge of TS and that's how I got to this site.. I am just courious. There is just so much stuff floating around, I want to hear it from the "horses mouth" :horse:
I am saying, in all of the time since I have been involved I have never seen one of these mass emailings which are alleged except the ones which were written in response and in answer to Linda's group, as I referred to. NEVER. I have not ever received one from 3ABN,(and yes I am and have been on their email list) and I have never seen one accuser of 3ABN making these claims ever present or publish a copy of one of those emails, and you are not even close to being the first to ask. That was why I said "good question" It was, and is, but so far in 6 years I have never seen it answered...
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Mrst53,
Yes, there was mass letters sent out and maybe just to the contributors.
I got one! and so did my family members also as they were contributors. I doubt I have a copy left after so many years and it did indeed give the idea of LS changed life to go her own way.
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Apart from the fact that Linda's and Danny's reasons for divorcing were not the same reasons that the 3ABN board voted to terminate her employment and position on the board,(Dr Walter Thompson, the chairman of the 3ABN board, has already , long ago, stated that she was fired for defiance of the board ( her employer).....
This is the same board that hired a non-Seventh-day Adventist alleged pedophile, who just happened to be the brother of the co-founder, to be the programming director of the largest Seventh-day Adventist television network in the world. Where can I sign up to defy this board too?????!!!!!
And BTW, when does Danny get terminated for defying the board? You know, that little thing which was detrimental to 3ABN policy..... that thing about starting his own publishing company to sell to 3ABN when it could have been done for hundreds of thousands less by going with the 3ABN imprint, already in existence at the time? Hmmmmm.....
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The documents and dates don't lie.
Did 3ABN or Danny or Walt do any broadcasts or send out any letters trashing Linda prior to the date she signed that unjust, inappropriate gag order?
Apart from the fact that Linda's and Danny's reasons for divorcing were not the same reasons that the 3ABN board voted to terminate her employment and position on the board,(Dr Walter Thompson, the chairman of the 3ABN board, has already , long ago, stated that she was fired for defiance of the board ( her employer) and that she wasn't fired for adultery, ....
If you are really trying to defend 3ABN, why are you repeating Walt's lies? As you note, Walt said Linda was fired for defying the board, but that is clearly and indisputably a lie, because there were no board meetings between when the alleged problem began and the May camp meeting.
Walt himself told me that there were no board meetings during that time period. So the board never gave Linda any ultimatums that she had opportunity to defy.
What board action could Linda have possibly defied anyway?
As you said:
The documents and dates don't lie.
I have not ever received one from 3ABN,(and yes I am and have been on their email list) and I have never seen one accuser of 3ABN making these claims ever present or publish a copy of one of those emails, and you are not even close to being the first to ask.
We filed examples with the court in our court case of communications Walt sent out trashing Linda and others.
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Gregory,
I think Dr. A made a valid point: Walt publicly demanded the documentation Dr. A claimed he had regarding the alleged abortion, but still refuses to produce the evidence of Linda's guilt.
If Walt wants the discussion regarding the alleged abortion dropped entirely, then he should finally and belatedly produce the evidence of Linda's guilt. Until he does, this point Dr. A has publicly raised regarding Walt's demand for documentation is on the table and should not be dropped.
It's a valid point. Walt may not like it being asked, but he was the one who publicly demanded the documentation. He should never have made the demand if he didn't want the point to be made...
Apart from the fact that Linda's and Danny's reasons for divorcing were not the same reasons that the 3ABN board voted to terminate her employment and position on the board,(Dr Walter Thompson, the chairman of the 3ABN board, has already , long ago, stated that she was fired for defiance of the board ( her employer) and that she wasn't fired for adultery, and he also added that although the board had ample information to suggest adultery, that they had no proof. ie; hadn't seen Linda and the Dr in bed together, and he plainly said that they hadn't ever accused her of adulteryt. So it isn't up to him to prove Linda is an adulteress, as she allegedly demanded. It's smoke and mirrors from her and her defenders so they can make her a victim and martyr for the gullible masses, and find fault with 3ABN); the bible clearly says "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and return evil with good" etc. If Bob Pickle really believes what he is attempting to argue here it is quite obvious he is ignoring biblical principles and resorting to an eye for an eye, (do unto others as you think they did to you -or another- or as you think they deserve) and he is promoting the ends justifies the means. Not Christian. Bob Pickle, imho, has left the straight and narrow path in his obsessive need to justify the path he has taken and prove himself righteous and justified. He's not even close to right here in his thinking, arguments or justifications of the wrong committed by Dr A and Johann and the shadowy accomplice hiding in the dark and protected here...
3 D Pot, Kettle, Black :oops:
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Again, Johann is asked to post a letter, but doesn't reveal who asked him.
Yes, much like the way some on this forum won't reveal their own names.
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3D- I wanted a straight forward answer- yes or no. Were you around the SDA church and 3abn at the time of the accusations and divorce of Linda and Danny?You did not answer my question exactly. You said you had not recieved any letters in the time you had been associated with 3abn, but then, that could be a year or 6 years or 10 years. Did you know Danny and Linda?
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I know the letters exist, not because I read them but because my mother came home from community service and had been visiting with her elderly friends. One who was almost 100 years old told her friends what her dear friend Walt Thompson wrote. He sent at least three letters that I know of. Two of the letters rumor spreading false information had been discussed in BSDA. The third one I asked a person in private about the rumor and the person wrote back that the rumor was false. So to me if one rumor was false so were all the others. This was BEFORE the letters sent out about the Norwegian Doctor. I didn't know about the last one til I checked out BSDA.
Some of the ladies tried to get the dear darling almost 100 year old lady to not listen to the letters but she replied that he was her friend. Why would he send out these kind of letters if he was not her friend.
No I do not have the letters. I found out the rest of the story that fits well with these false stories through reading BSDA.
I can't prove these letters exist myself. There was one person who told me their grandmother had received the letters but she had since passed away and the person had no idea how important those letters were til they checked out BSDA. So the letters wer not saved.
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Thank-you, Guide4-Him. I guess no one realized how important those letters would turn out to be......
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After reading about Danny's vile schemes... to get Linda to be away for a specified time and telling her one story why... then he cries at campmeeting to feel sorry for Danny because his wife is with the Norwegian Dr... to sending out letters to those who were very elderly so that when things get out if they ever do, there is no way those letters can be found for proof....shows in part Danny's diabolical sickness which has continued.... and all the other vile things he has done and said since ... he is such a sick hipocrit...
just don't understand why anyone wants to watch him on tv. Never did like him when he and Linda were together at 3ABN. All he did was talk about himself ALL THE TIME and she pointed us to Jesus and His Love for us.
Ps. I don't want Linda at 3ABN. She needs to have her own ministry apart from 3ABN. 3ABN hurt her way too much for her to go back.
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One of the fall backs of DS character that fits in with his sickness that I took note of was his big stories of "God spoke to him to build the tv station".
First of all a normal person that has this sort of inclinations that the Holy Spirits is talking to them usually keep their stuff personal between them and God and progress is between that person and God. Otherwise the stories I call nebbie stories because of the bragging. The only reason DS did this was his "pain for fame" "money" and how to get it using his ego talent to honest people's that are ignorant of his agenda and by making them believe that God is speaking to him.
This is the same way all these TV "hooligans" get theirs to. It is the same pattern. But DS sickness got worse as his "lusts" grew. The "money" gave him the abilities to bring out his true character. I do not think that LS agenda was the same and therefore how would the two be able to be yoked together and anything work? DS exposed himself as LS is in bewilderment and hurt. But somehow I believe she knows the way now. The other scumbag web site says she was a mental case, well how could anyone not be??? Not only DS but looking around what all your into with the whole "clans" patterns coming out too. I feel she is blessed beyond what she realizes.
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:goodpost: Tinka .... every time.
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Guide4him,
You have no idea how sick this has made me feel for my beloved church. I wish it were a nightmare. I guess we all knew bad things were coming but so hard to accept when they do because it seems worse then what I read and could imagine. It's sort of like the Oil Spill. I knew it always said there would be disasters by land and sea. I just thought about these horrible storms and ships going down. Never did I realize what is happening now. This I believe will never be the same. I do think they are trying not to panic the people. I believe according to the video that I gave link to is worse then what they will say. Fox is starting to elude to it little by little. The spumes from the pipe are getting more and more as the pipe is breaking holes from the unheard of pressure from going to far into a strata they never reached before. The pressure is what they cannot control. all valves could not hold it once it hit that Strata which they drilled 6 miles beyond the 1 mile deep into the ocean for a total of 7 miles. It was farther then the deepest drill in Russia and US thought they could did deeper and that is what they got. US gave all permits, inspections and all go for BP to perform. Both are at fault. But what now?? They are talking about Nukes. But they pretty much know the chance they would be taking if it did not work. The fish will die and much else with a hole bigger and more pressue. and here we are in a horrible saga of the 3abn. It is definitely a live nightmare in time.
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After reading about Danny's vile schemes... to get Linda to be away for a specified time and telling her one story why... then he cries at campmeeting to feel sorry for Danny because his wife is with the Norwegian Dr... to sending out letters to those who were very elderly so that when things get out if they ever do, there is no way those letters can be found for proof....shows in part Danny's diabolical sickness which has continued.... and all the other vile things he has done and said since ... he is such a sick hipocrit...
just don't understand why anyone wants to watch him on tv. Never did like him when he and Linda were together at 3ABN. All he did was talk about himself ALL THE TIME and she pointed us to Jesus and His Love for us.
Ps. I don't want Linda at 3ABN. She needs to have her own ministry apart from 3ABN. 3ABN hurt her way too much for her to go back.
AMEN!
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It's too bad, someone's Mother or Dad is not like my Mom. She never threw anything away. She had letters and papers from Church from 20 years ago ;D
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I don't throw these type of emails, etc. away either, therefore, if I ever received it, then I still have it somewhere.
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So Daryl, you are saying that none of the emails or letters were ever sent about Linda? Wanting to fire her, accusing her of adultery, etc?
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I don't throw these type of emails, etc. away either, therefore, if I ever received it, then I still have it somewhere.
My first wife and I lived together for 51 years. My second wife now for 4 years. Even though they are very different both of them have one thing in common, They try to make me discard every piece of paper that I don't need for our survival - possibly because there has not been room for any more for several years. I appreciate the assistance to make life more meaningful. So I'm asking publishers not to send me any more magazines if I can read their publications on the Internet.
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Because accusations against me in connection with this letter are still current at another forum, I'd like to make a few comments here.
The following email was relayed to me along with the request that it be posted as written. I have complied with that request and post it now exactly as I received it and with no commentary.
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Since this accusation has repercussions far beyond myself and my family, and impacts upon the God to whom I have dedicated my life in service, His church, and its ministries, I must challenge Dr. Abrahamsen to provide documentation defending the accuracy of his statement. Of course, he will not, for he cannot. They do not exist, and never have.
It so happens that I saw the documentation Dr. Abrahamsen has before his letters were posted. The documentation came from Dr. Thompson's own home base.
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There are many reasons why inaccuracies and assumptions may arise in situations such as this. Often, two people may witness the same incident, but see it in very different ways--both being true in the minds of the witnesses. On other occasions, past experiences may influence our understanding of facts, giving us varied ways of interpreting the facts we observe. Sometimes, pertinent facts are unavailable for first person witness, leading interested individuals to make assumptions that may or may not be accurate. On yet other occasions, facts are intentionally distorted or fabricated in an effort to deceive--sometimes very effectively!
I agree wholeheartedly with this, and I believe that the conclusions Dr. Thompson came to back in 2004 with such tragic results, would have been quite different if he had considered what he is stating here. This whole affair started with the false tales of Brenda Walsh. If Dr. Thompson had been as eager to check the accuracy of her stories as he seemend to be with statements verified by two witnesses and more, which he did not acccept as sufficiently verified, then the problems of 3ABN and the pain he refers to here below, would never have been the same.
Undoubtedly all of these factors have contributed to the pain that has been experienced by so many in recent years in regards to the issues leading to Dr. Abrahamsen's letter. For the reasons given here, some things will remain a mystery so long as life may last here on earth. Only in that better land may we hope to see truth in all of its facets. Until then, we must go on, walking by faith, trusting the promises of God that, "All things work together for good to those that love God and are called according to His purpose," Romans 8:28.
Dr. Thompson is entitled to religions freedom, like all others, and this includes following the leading of the demon that appeard to Brenda Walsh that night, and which led her to make her false tales, and believing that also worked together for good to some people. But that does not make it the just way to go when it affects others.
For my part, as an individual very much involved in the events under discussion, and as chairman of the board of 3ABN during the time under discussion, I hereby wish to express my sorrow for any wrongs I have done, or any wrongs done by other members of the 3ABN community to those who have been hurt. Though we are all human and sometimes fail to live up to our highest aspirations, never has there been the least intent to mislead or cause pain. For the hurting ones (on both sides of the conflict) my heart aches, and for these I pray each day. Through these difficult times 3ABN's theme song has been severely tested, but remains our constant quest, "I want to spend my life healing broken people." We all do!
The confession part in this statement sounds good, and I cannot say it is not honest. But confession also demands restitution, something we have never seen applied. I agree with you that the theme song of 3ABN has been severely tested. Such things happen when your help to broken people excludes people you have caused so much pain due to false reports. Prayer is good, but prayer also demands action in areas where the Lord has placed you.
Will we ever agree on all points? Likely not! Will we ever see eye to eye? Perhaps not until we cross the river into that better world, but my plea is that we love one another in word and deed, proving by that love that God is our Father, and we, His faithful and true sons and daughters.
Jesus Himself defines who are His faithful sons and daughters. You find this definition in Matt. 25:45`Then the King will answer them, "I tell you the truth. What you did not do for even the smallest of these, you did not do for me."
46And they will go away to be punished for ever. But the good people will go away to live for ever.'
Jesus said, "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you: That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for He makes His sun shine on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust," Matthew 5:44, 45.
Let us love one another!
Walter Thompson
Chairman, 3ABN Board of Directors
Your confession may be good, but what did you do to one of these least ones when she stood there all alone in front of a group of hyppocrites who claimed they could cast her out because they themselves are the saints who are proclaiming the true gospel? Where was your love then?
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Anyone who believes this is his last campaign does not know Mark Finley! His funeral will be the day of his last campaign, but do not be surprised if he is a part of the special resurrection to carry the the Final Loud Cry Message!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Mark Finley's last campaign before retiring as a vice president in a few days:
http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=3414
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I should not interrupt this literation and it should be considered in the most sincere solemnity:
I don't throw these type of emails, etc. away either, therefore, if I ever received it, then I still have it somewhere.
My first wife and I lived together for 51 years. My second wife now for 4 years. Even though they are very different both of them have one thing in common, They try to make me discard every piece of paper that I don't need for our survival - possibly because there has not been room for any more for several years. I appreciate the assistance to make life more meaningful. So I'm asking publishers not to send me any more magazines if I can read their publications on the Internet.
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I am sorry I am reading this on year late but Dr Arild you are right. There is too much ducking from the job on this one. I too several years ago called the union president, under which Linda and Danny were pastor to ask the union president to listen to her side of the story. he refused. His excuse was that 3ABN was not a church organization. how we an argument. I told him that she was a member of the church (our organization) and 3ABN is using our name with our blessing and that make it his responsibility to talk to her. he still did not listen. Linda has never been treated fairly. It is my view that after being divorced twice and with such questionable person he is, Brother Danny should not be allowed to speak on behalf of 3abn publically any more and he should be disciplined by the church.
March 26, 2010
Hello Pastor Mark,
Thank you for your response. I appreciate the opportunity to finally correct the errors you may have been told about the situation. It is not counseling that is needed for this situation, it is ACTION on the GC level. I realize that this is a very difficult situation, but as members we are taught to turn to our leadership in these situations. Wnere else is there to turn?
What inaccuracies do you see in my letter? Please give me the opportunity to address them.
I am aware you briefly spoke to Linda twice before the divorce. The issues I am mainly addressing here have much to do with what followed the divorce.
If one cannot discuss errors and difficulties with a Vice-President of our beloved Church, who can we talk to?
Sincerely,
Dr. Arild Abrahamsen
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This Adventist Church has made and is still making a mistake in ignoring this subject. Adventist leaders are responsible. Danny Shelton is a member of the Adventist Church. Most people think that 3ABN is Adventist owned. 3ABN is allowed to produce ADventist programs, supported by the church. Therefore, we must stop this ducking and dealing with the matters at hand.
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Did you contact Elder Ted Wilson, GC President, regarding this?
This Adventist Church has made and is still making a mistake in ignoring this subject. Adventist leaders are responsible. Danny Shelton is a member of the Adventist Church. Most people think that 3ABN is Adventist owned. 3ABN is allowed to produce ADventist programs, supported by the church. Therefore, we must stop this ducking and dealing with the matters at hand.
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Didn't Ted Wilson publicly give some positive attention to 3ABN not too long ago?
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Didn't Ted Wilson publicly give some positive attention to 3ABN not too long ago?
Was going to say at GC but he had just been elected so it was not his personal decision I would guess.
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The conference President will soon have to answer for his sins. Let's hope it is redemptive and not his souls' Waterloo!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter