Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: ex3abnemployee on July 19, 2010, 08:43:06 AM
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Tommy Shelton pledged guilty this morning to two counts of custodial indecent liberties with a minor in a Fairfax County, Virginia court room. The judge reportedly told Tommy that he may reject the plea agreement and sentence him to prison due to the nature of the offences. Tommy said he understood and entered two pleas of guilty, rendering all claims by his defenders useless. If you remember, they were claiming he was basically forced to plead guilty to AVOID prison. Sentencing will be on September 24.
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http://pietyinc.com/?p=4492 (http://pietyinc.com/?p=4492)
A Kentucky pastor pleaded guilty Monday to molesting 2-boys who belonged to his Fairfax, Virginia church when he pastored it in the 1990s.
[Tommy] Shelton, 65, was the pastor of Community Church of God in the Dunn Loring area from 1995 to 2000. Authorities said two men came forward to Fairfax police in 2008 and alleged that Shelton sexually assaulted them in the 1990s.
Shelton, who had been living in Kentucky, was arrested in March.
Both victims were in the courtroom for Shelton’s pleas to two felony counts of taking indecent liberties with a child under the adult’s supervision.
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Minister pleads guilty to molesting boys in Fairfax
The former pastor of a Fairfax County church pleaded guilty Monday morning to molesting two boys who were members of his church in the 1990s, and Fairfax prosecutors agreed to a deal in which the man would spend no time in jail.
But Fairfax Circuit Court Judge Randy I. Bellows said he may not accept the deal, in which case the defendant, Tommy R. Shelton Jr., could withdraw his plea and take the case to another judge.
Shelton, 65, was the pastor of Community Church of God in the Dunn Loring area from 1995 to 2000. Authorities said two men came forward to Fairfax police in 2008 and alleged that Shelton sexually assaulted them in the 1990s.
Shelton, who had been living in Kentucky, was arrested in March.
Both victims were in the courtroom for Shelton's pleas to two felony counts of taking indecent liberties with a child under the adult's supervision. Each charge carriies a penalty of up to five years in prison. Both said afterward they approved the plea deal, even without jail time, as long as Shelton admitted his guilt and was placed on the sex offender registry.
One of the men testified at a May hearing, and Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Katherine E. Stott confirmed Monday, that Shelton had performed oral sex on him in 1995 or 1996, when he was 14. Shelton had been seeing the boy for counseling and piano lessons, Stott said, and told him that their various sexual activity was "the type of relationship a father and son had."
The other man testified in May that when he was 11, he and Shelton would go on bike rides, and Shelton would direct him into the woods and then fondle him. Stott said on one occasion, Shelton molested the boy in the kitchen of the Community Church of God.
Bellows, a former federal prosecutor, seemed skeptical of a plea bargain with no jail time. "I'm telling you all right now," the judge said, "I may ultimately reject this agreement."
Shelton has been free on bond, and Bellows said that without the plea agreement, "I would have little doubt about incarcerating the defendant pending sentencing." But prosecutors did not ask for Shelton's bond to be revoked, or for any jail sentence, so he allowed Shelton to remain free.
Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said she had discussed the proposal with the two victims, and the risks of going to trial, and they had accepted it.
She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about events up to 15 years ago, that Shelton had not spoken to police and had no prior criminal record.
After the hearing, the victims said they would be prepared to testify at trial if the judge rejects it and Shelton goes to trial.
"It's been a long time coming," said one of the men, now 24, who noted that allegations of abuse have followed Shelton through other ministries in other states. "I know many of the victims, and I know they are happy with this too."
The other victim, now 29, said, "He's taken something for me I'll never get back...As long as he's admitted guilt and he's a registered sex offender, that he can't do this to others, that's really what I wanted."
Shelton declined to comment after the hearing. Bellows ordered a pre-sentence report, and set a sentencing hearing for Sept. 24, where he will decide whether to accept or reject the plea deal.
-- Tom Jackman
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/fairfax/minister-pleads-guilty-to-mole.html (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/fairfax/minister-pleads-guilty-to-mole.html)
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Tommy Shelton pledged guilty this morning to two counts of custodial indecent liberties with a minor in a Fairfax County, Virginia court room. The judge reportedly told Tommy that he may reject the plea agreement and sentence him to prison due to the nature of the offences. Tommy said he understood and entered two pleas of guilty, rendering all claims by his defenders useless. If you remember, they were claiming he was basically forced to plead guilty to AVOID prison. Sentencing will be on September 24.
Duane, thanks for the report but you could have left out the part I have bold texted. Also, no one claimed he was forced to do anything. He wasn't. He had a free choice. And he freely chose to plead guilty for whatever reasons, and now is guilty. What one person earlier explained and posted was that "there was no other alternative which was acceptable" to him, and "this was the best deal offered" and that yes, he had accepted the plea bargain to avoid jail time. That part is true.
Tommy Shelton has accepted a plea bargain when there was no other alternative that was acceptable. First off, even if innocent (which he is innocent) he could very well be put in prison anyway, which we know he would never live through because of his serious heart condition. I doubt he would last a week in prison. It was a very difficult decision, but it was decided that the only thing they could do was accept the plea bargain with a guilty plea/put on sexual offender list. They were hoping to get a plea bargain that would be "no contest" since he is innocent of the charges, and not having his name on a sex-offender list but the prosecution would not agree to this.
The only way to stay out of prison was to say he was guilty and to allow his name be put on the list. How sad is this. No money, broken in health--only just wanting to be with his family. He is retirement age anyway and so this was the best deal offered.
But what you are leaving out, is this, which is also from the "they" and what "they were claiming":
Option number three would be to simply go to trial and allow the jury to consider the evidence. If he is confident in his innocence why not simply trust his future to the Lord and go to trial? If I was elderly and had a bad heart but knew I was innocent, there is NO WAY I would accept a plea bargain that would keep me out of prison but require that I lie about my guilt.
IF the plea agreement is, as presented by these individuals not a part of this case, it is interesting that no one has mentioned that this keeps the "victims" off the stand where their integrity and character could be defined for the jury to consider while rendering a verdict.
and this:
"Interesting, from all. My opinion is that TS should plead innocent, but admit I don't know all. I do tend to think God's people need to walk forward in faith and never in fear. We may not always see what is ahead of us, but he always does, and is the best guide.
I myself thought the plea bargain the wrong choice, I still do, but it was not my choice. He has plead guilty in this case and that's all there is to that. According to the law he is guilty of the charges filed. No one has a right to proclaim his innocence now as he has admitted he was not and admitted that to his victims and the court.
The following was also posted here and is my belief:
I received information a short time ago that a plea agreement has been reached in the Tommy Shelton sexual abuse cases currently pending in Virginia. According to sources, Tommy Ray Shelton will appear in court on Monday, July 19 in Fairfax County, Virginia and plead guilty to two counts of Custodial Indecent Liberties with two minors. Under the terms of this agreement, he will face no prison time but will be required to register as a sex offender, and will also receive probation for a length of time to be determined by the court.
To be clear, this will be two pleas of guilty, rather that pleas of no contest
hmmm... I admit, just as I did before when the charges against Tommy were revealed that this is distressing (if true), very, but I also find it curious that you and so many here accusing 3abn, know, or claim to know, all about this, when those at 3abn, and those defending them know nothing about it, and the hearing hasn't taken place, nor have any news sources reported this.
As before, those who aren't involved or in the know (3abn or me ....)will just have to wait for the court documents and the news in order to know what the real facts are.
This i will say and do not apologize to either party. IF TS is not guilty and pleads guilty to avoid a trial, expense and a greater charge, I consider that a lie.
If he is guilty when he earlier claimed he was innocent. That is also a lie.
Bottom line? I hate child abuse, and I hate lies.
I welcomed a trial as the facts would be known, and doubt they will be now if what is reported is true...
Sadly though, this case has nothing to do with Pickle's allegations against DS and 3ABN, or the lawsuit, and yet all here in my opinion (yet to be proved) will keep trying to make it so..
It is also my belief that if he was innocent, and only plead guilty(lied) to avoid jail, and ends up getting sent to jail anyway due to that plea, well it is heartbreakingly ironic... and that's all I can say about that... other than I hope all have gotten what they sought and can move on now to find inner peace and heal.
EDIT- to correct font only.
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Thank you. It appears Duane either left a lot out, or didn't get a good report. I will restate my opinion in light of this. I think the plea bargain was the wrong decision and the best course was to go to trial based on the evidence, but I guess we have to wait on the Judges decision to see what, if anything, happens next...
Minister pleads guilty to molesting boys in Fairfax
The former pastor of a Fairfax County church pleaded guilty Monday morning to molesting two boys who were members of his church in the 1990s, and Fairfax prosecutors agreed to a deal in which the man would spend no time in jail.
But Fairfax Circuit Court Judge Randy I. Bellows said he may not accept the deal, in which case the defendant, Tommy R. Shelton Jr., could withdraw his plea and take the case to another judge.
Shelton, 65, was the pastor of Community Church of God in the Dunn Loring area from 1995 to 2000. Authorities said two men came forward to Fairfax police in 2008 and alleged that Shelton sexually assaulted them in the 1990s.
Shelton, who had been living in Kentucky, was arrested in March.
Both victims were in the courtroom for Shelton's pleas to two felony counts of taking indecent liberties with a child under the adult's supervision. Each charge carriies a penalty of up to five years in prison. Both said afterward they approved the plea deal, even without jail time, as long as Shelton admitted his guilt and was placed on the sex offender registry.
One of the men testified at a May hearing, and Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Katherine E. Stott confirmed Monday, that Shelton had performed oral sex on him in 1995 or 1996, when he was 14. Shelton had been seeing the boy for counseling and piano lessons, Stott said, and told him that their various sexual activity was "the type of relationship a father and son had."
The other man testified in May that when he was 11, he and Shelton would go on bike rides, and Shelton would direct him into the woods and then fondle him. Stott said on one occasion, Shelton molested the boy in the kitchen of the Community Church of God.
Bellows, a former federal prosecutor, seemed skeptical of a plea bargain with no jail time. "I'm telling you all right now," the judge said, "I may ultimately reject this agreement."
Shelton has been free on bond, and Bellows said that without the plea agreement, "I would have little doubt about incarcerating the defendant pending sentencing." But prosecutors did not ask for Shelton's bond to be revoked, or for any jail sentence, so he allowed Shelton to remain free.
Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said she had discussed the proposal with the two victims, and the risks of going to trial, and they had accepted it.
She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about events up to 15 years ago, that Shelton had not spoken to police and had no prior criminal record.
After the hearing, the victims said they would be prepared to testify at trial if the judge rejects it and Shelton goes to trial.
"It's been a long time coming," said one of the men, now 24, who noted that allegations of abuse have followed Shelton through other ministries in other states. "I know many of the victims, and I know they are happy with this too."
The other victim, now 29, said, "He's taken something for me I'll never get back...As long as he's admitted guilt and he's a registered sex offender, that he can't do this to others, that's really what I wanted."
Shelton declined to comment after the hearing. Bellows ordered a pre-sentence report, and set a sentencing hearing for Sept. 24, where he will decide whether to accept or reject the plea deal.
-- Tom Jackman
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/fairfax/minister-pleads-guilty-to-mole.html (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/fairfax/minister-pleads-guilty-to-mole.html)
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...
Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said she had discussed the proposal with the two victims, and the risks of going to trial, and they had accepted it.
She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about events up to 15 years ago, that Shelton had not spoken to police and had no prior criminal record....
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/fairfax/minister-pleads-guilty-to-mole.html (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/fairfax/minister-pleads-guilty-to-mole.html)
Sad business, but I can't help but notice there does appear to be a difference in the report from the Washington post and the reports we got from Gailon Arthur Joy and Bob Pickle.
Re: BREAKING NEWS -- Plea agreement reached in Tommy Shelton Case
There were a pile of records, including medical records...state held all the aces and the joker!!! Not the kind of things you want in the public record and filling the minds of a jury of your peers with.
So there are medical records available for Tommy Shelton's victims?
"Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said she had discussed the proposal with the two victims, and the risks of going to trial, and they had accepted it. She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about events up to 15 years ago"
Re: BREAKING NEWS -- Plea agreement reached in Tommy Shelton Case
Bob or Gailon--is it true that there are no medical records for any of Tommy Shelton's victims?
Gailon was talking about medical records for Tommy for when Brad and Valerie allegedly got Tommy to seek help after Rick allegedly came forward and said that Tommy had molested him.
"Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said she had discussed the proposal with the two victims, and the risks of going to trial, and they had accepted it. She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about events up to 15 years ago"
[/quote]
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Yes, I think it was discussed that both sides had good reason for not wanting to go to trial, the time was definitely an issue. I don't know why anyone would say that he plead to avoid prison time when that was not part of the the plea, they just reduced the charges to something of which they were sure he would get convicted. Sad, sadb business for sure. We will ahve to keep everyone involved in prayer.
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Thank you. It appears Duane either left a lot out, or didn't get a good report. I will restate my opinion in light of this. I think the plea bargain was the wrong decision and the best course was to go to trial based on the evidence, but I guess we have to wait on the Judges decision to see what, if anything, happens next...
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-- Tom Jackman
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/fairfax/minister-pleads-guilty-to-mole.html (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/fairfax/minister-pleads-guilty-to-mole.html)
Cindy, do you have a special reason why you tell Duane that he has left something out or gave a bad report when he is posting exactly what Crime reporter Tom Jackman wrote in the Washington Post? Why don't you rather take up the issue with the Washington Post?
Are you leaving the obvious out on purpose?
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http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0710/756709.html
Ex-pastor Pleads to Molestation; Judge Wants Jail
FAIRFAX, Va. (AP) - The former pastor of a Fairfax County (web | news) church has pleaded guilty to molesting two boys in the 1990s but a judge may reject the deal it does not call for any jail time.
Tommy R. Shelton Jr. pleaded guilty Monday to two counts of taking indecent liberties with a child. Shelton would not serve jail time but would be required to register as a sex offender.
At the plea hearing, Judge Randy Bellows said he may reject the deal as too lenient. If that happens, Shelton could withdraw his plea and the case would go to trial.
ABC 7 Talkback:
Click Here to Comment on this Story
Shelton, 65, now of Marion, Ky., was pastor of the Community Church of God in Dunn Loring from 1995 to 2000.
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Information from: The Washington Post, http://www.washingtonpost.com
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Sam I was hoping you would be there today, but I guess that just shows you are a coward.
By the way, I will NOT answer any questions about what happened today. Those questions need to be directed to my attorney(s).
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Alex, I am sure today must have been very difficult for you, thinking you could begin to put some of this behind you, and now you have to wait another month. Please be strong and know that I am praying for you.
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Thank you. I am still confident that this will be the course of action. We will see what Judge Bellows decides on the 24th of September.
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Yes, I think it was discussed that both sides had good reason for not wanting to go to trial, the time was definitely an issue. I don't know why anyone would say that he plead to avoid prison time when that was not part of the the plea, they just reduced the charges to something of which they were sure he would get convicted. Sad, sadb business for sure. We will ahve to keep everyone involved in prayer.
I am new here too and I also feel so sad about all of this. I think we need to pray for everyone too because Jesus wants us to love all and try to help everyone. We even need to try and help the bad ones, because Christ helped us all when we were all bad and lost too saying I have not come to condemn but to save.
I also think we need to read all, and ask questions beyond what is said because there is much we don't know and need to figure out and that isn't made known yet.
I don't want to hurt your feelings, because I did read a news article here about the charges being reduced because what the person had to say didn't warrant that, but I also read the Washington Post about the plea bargain. It was posted here a couple of times now. This is what the Washington Post said today:"Fairfax prosecutors agreed to a deal in which the man would spend no time in jail."You just said "I don't know why anyone would say that he plead to avoid prison time when that was not part of the the plea" . Maybe you could consider readings things before saying things like that? It would help, and not cause people to be confused. Unless you are saying that because you know the newspaper is wrong? I am sorry if that is what you are saying but this is all really confusing to me because of what you said and I don't want anyone to say the wrong thing. I do want to know the right thing. :)
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Yes, I think it was discussed that both sides had good reason for not wanting to go to trial, the time was definitely an issue. I don't know why anyone would say that he plead to avoid prison time when that was not part of the the plea, they just reduced the charges to something of which they were sure he would get convicted. Sad, sadb business for sure. We will ahve to keep everyone involved in prayer.
I am new here too and I also feel so sad about all of this. I think we need to pray for everyone too because Jesus wants us to love all and try to help everyone. We even need to try and help the bad ones, because Christ helped us all when we were all bad and lost too saying I have not come to condemn but to save.
I also think we need to read all, and ask questions beyond what is said because there is much we don't know and need to figure out and that isn't made known yet.
I don't want to hurt your feelings, because I did read a news article here about the charges being reduced because what the person had to say didn't warrant that, but I also read the Washington Post about the plea bargain. It was posted here a couple of times now. This is what the Washington Post said today:"Fairfax prosecutors agreed to a deal in which the man would spend no time in jail."You just said "I don't know why anyone would say that he plead to avoid prison time when that was not part of the the plea" . Maybe you could consider readings things before saying things like that? It would help, and not cause people to be confused. Unless you are saying that because you know the newspaper is wrong? I am sorry if that is what you are saying but this is all really confusing to me because of what you said and I don't want anyone to say the wrong thing. I do want to know the right thing. :)
Possibly I can clarify this. Yes, it was part of the plea (no prison time) you are correct Harley. Let me also make one thing CRYSTAL clear. The defense is the one who asked for and proposed the plea deal as it now stands. The prosecution consulted with us and we accepted. I am limited on what I can discuss, but if you read the news report as Harley pointed out it clearly states that.
Minister pleads guilty to molesting boys in Fairfax
The former pastor of a Fairfax County church pleaded guilty Monday morning to molesting two boys who were members of his church in the 1990s, and Fairfax prosecutors agreed to a deal in which the man would spend no time in jail.
But Fairfax Circuit Court Judge Randy I. Bellows said he may not accept the deal, in which case the defendant, Tommy R. Shelton Jr., could withdraw his plea and take the case to another judge.
Shelton, 65, was the pastor of Community Church of God in the Dunn Loring area from 1995 to 2000. Authorities said two men came forward to Fairfax police in 2008 and alleged that Shelton sexually assaulted them in the 1990s.
Shelton, who had been living in Kentucky, was arrested in March.
Both victims were in the courtroom for Shelton's pleas to two felony counts of taking indecent liberties with a child under the adult's supervision. Each charge carriies a penalty of up to five years in prison. Both said afterward they approved the plea deal, even without jail time, as long as Shelton admitted his guilt and was placed on the sex offender registry.
One of the men testified at a May hearing, and Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Katherine E. Stott confirmed Monday, that Shelton had performed oral sex on him in 1995 or 1996, when he was 14. Shelton had been seeing the boy for counseling and piano lessons, Stott said, and told him that their various sexual activity was "the type of relationship a father and son had."
The other man testified in May that when he was 11, he and Shelton would go on bike rides, and Shelton would direct him into the woods and then fondle him. Stott said on one occasion, Shelton molested the boy in the kitchen of the Community Church of God.
Bellows, a former federal prosecutor, seemed skeptical of a plea bargain with no jail time. "I'm telling you all right now," the judge said, "I may ultimately reject this agreement."
Shelton has been free on bond, and Bellows said that without the plea agreement, "I would have little doubt about incarcerating the defendant pending sentencing." But prosecutors did not ask for Shelton's bond to be revoked, or for any jail sentence, so he allowed Shelton to remain free.
Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said she had discussed the proposal with the two victims, and the risks of going to trial, and they had accepted it.
She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about events up to 15 years ago, that Shelton had not spoken to police and had no prior criminal record.
After the hearing, the victims said they would be prepared to testify at trial if the judge rejects it and Shelton goes to trial.
"It's been a long time coming," said one of the men, now 24, who noted that allegations of abuse have followed Shelton through other ministries in other states. "I know many of the victims, and I know they are happy with this too."
The other victim, now 29, said, "He's taken something for me I'll never get back...As long as he's admitted guilt and he's a registered sex offender, that he can't do this to others, that's really what I wanted."
Shelton declined to comment after the hearing. Bellows ordered a pre-sentence report, and set a sentencing hearing for Sept. 24, where he will decide whether to accept or reject the plea deal.
-- Tom Jackman
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/fairfax/minister-pleads-guilty-to-
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It was kind of you to explain. Thank you, Alex Walker. :)
Yes, I think it was discussed that both sides had good reason for not wanting to go to trial, the time was definitely an issue. I don't know why anyone would say that he plead to avoid prison time when that was not part of the the plea, they just reduced the charges to something of which they were sure he would get convicted. Sad, sadb business for sure. We will ahve to keep everyone involved in prayer.
I am new here too and I also feel so sad about all of this. I think we need to pray for everyone too because Jesus wants us to love all and try to help everyone. We even need to try and help the bad ones, because Christ helped us all when we were all bad and lost too saying I have not come to condemn but to save.
I also think we need to read all, and ask questions beyond what is said because there is much we don't know and need to figure out and that isn't made known yet.
I don't want to hurt your feelings, because I did read a news article here about the charges being reduced because what the person had to say didn't warrant that, but I also read the Washington Post about the plea bargain. It was posted here a couple of times now. This is what the Washington Post said today:"Fairfax prosecutors agreed to a deal in which the man would spend no time in jail."You just said "I don't know why anyone would say that he plead to avoid prison time when that was not part of the the plea" . Maybe you could consider readings things before saying things like that? It would help, and not cause people to be confused. Unless you are saying that because you know the newspaper is wrong? I am sorry if that is what you are saying but this is all really confusing to me because of what you said and I don't want anyone to say the wrong thing. I do want to know the right thing. :)
Possibly I can clarify this. Yes, it was part of the plea (no prison time) you are correct Harley. Let me also make one thing CRYSTAL clear. The defense is the one who asked for and proposed the plea deal as it now stands. The prosecution consulted with us and we accepted. I am limited on what I can discuss, but if you read the news report as Harley pointed out it clearly states that.
Minister pleads guilty to molesting boys in Fairfax
The former pastor of a Fairfax County church pleaded guilty Monday morning to molesting two boys who were members of his church in the 1990s, and Fairfax prosecutors agreed to a deal in which the man would spend no time in jail.
But Fairfax Circuit Court Judge Randy I. Bellows said he may not accept the deal, in which case the defendant, Tommy R. Shelton Jr., could withdraw his plea and take the case to another judge.
Shelton, 65, was the pastor of Community Church of God in the Dunn Loring area from 1995 to 2000. Authorities said two men came forward to Fairfax police in 2008 and alleged that Shelton sexually assaulted them in the 1990s.
Shelton, who had been living in Kentucky, was arrested in March.
Both victims were in the courtroom for Shelton's pleas to two felony counts of taking indecent liberties with a child under the adult's supervision. Each charge carriies a penalty of up to five years in prison. Both said afterward they approved the plea deal, even without jail time, as long as Shelton admitted his guilt and was placed on the sex offender registry.
One of the men testified at a May hearing, and Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Katherine E. Stott confirmed Monday, that Shelton had performed oral sex on him in 1995 or 1996, when he was 14. Shelton had been seeing the boy for counseling and piano lessons, Stott said, and told him that their various sexual activity was "the type of relationship a father and son had."
The other man testified in May that when he was 11, he and Shelton would go on bike rides, and Shelton would direct him into the woods and then fondle him. Stott said on one occasion, Shelton molested the boy in the kitchen of the Community Church of God.
Bellows, a former federal prosecutor, seemed skeptical of a plea bargain with no jail time. "I'm telling you all right now," the judge said, "I may ultimately reject this agreement."
Shelton has been free on bond, and Bellows said that without the plea agreement, "I would have little doubt about incarcerating the defendant pending sentencing." But prosecutors did not ask for Shelton's bond to be revoked, or for any jail sentence, so he allowed Shelton to remain free.
Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said she had discussed the proposal with the two victims, and the risks of going to trial, and they had accepted it.
She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about events up to 15 years ago, that Shelton had not spoken to police and had no prior criminal record.
After the hearing, the victims said they would be prepared to testify at trial if the judge rejects it and Shelton goes to trial.
"It's been a long time coming," said one of the men, now 24, who noted that allegations of abuse have followed Shelton through other ministries in other states. "I know many of the victims, and I know they are happy with this too."
The other victim, now 29, said, "He's taken something for me I'll never get back...As long as he's admitted guilt and he's a registered sex offender, that he can't do this to others, that's really what I wanted."
Shelton declined to comment after the hearing. Bellows ordered a pre-sentence report, and set a sentencing hearing for Sept. 24, where he will decide whether to accept or reject the plea deal.
-- Tom Jackman
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/fairfax/minister-pleads-guilty-to-
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Cindy;
You were obviously not facing very certain jail time for your sins, given the weight of the evidence. In fact, let's face it, you have yet to accept the overwhelming evidence in any part of this saga.
And beleive me, If I had my way and your "freinds" had not cut and run, we would have had another "embarrasingly revealing trial" but in US District Court in Worcester, Ma... still may, but unlikely to be in Worcester!!!! And the number of "defendants" will likely expand exponentially.
Get use to the fact that the wheels of justice grind slowly but they grind very fine!!!
Doesn't it kill you to come to the realization your are on the loosing side of this war??? Never easy to accept the harsh reality of justice.
Really chews at the craw like no other event!!! It can be humbling or you can be defiant!!! And which will it be???
As old Yogi is famous for saying, "ain't over, til it's over!!!".
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Tommy Shelton pledged guilty this morning to two counts of custodial indecent liberties with a minor in a Fairfax County, Virginia court room. The judge reportedly told Tommy that he may reject the plea agreement and sentence him to prison due to the nature of the offences. Tommy said he understood and entered two pleas of guilty, rendering all claims by his defenders useless. If you remember, they were claiming he was basically forced to plead guilty to AVOID prison. Sentencing will be on September 24.
Duane, thanks for the report but you could have left out the part I have bold texted. Also, no one claimed he was forced to do anything. He wasn't. He had a free choice. And he freely chose to plead guilty for whatever reasons, and now is guilty. What one person earlier explained and posted was that "there was no other alternative which was acceptable" to him, and "this was the best deal offered" and that yes, he had accepted the plea bargain to avoid jail time. That part is true.
Tommy Shelton has accepted a plea bargain when there was no other alternative that was acceptable. First off, even if innocent (which he is innocent) he could very well be put in prison anyway, which we know he would never live through because of his serious heart condition. I doubt he would last a week in prison. It was a very difficult decision, but it was decided that the only thing they could do was accept the plea bargain with a guilty plea/put on sexual offender list. They were hoping to get a plea bargain that would be "no contest" since he is innocent of the charges, and not having his name on a sex-offender list but the prosecution would not agree to this.
The only way to stay out of prison was to say he was guilty and to allow his name be put on the list. How sad is this. No money, broken in health--only just wanting to be with his family. He is retirement age anyway and so this was the best deal offered.
But what you are leaving out, is this, which is also from the "they" and what "they were claiming":
Option number three would be to simply go to trial and allow the jury to consider the evidence. If he is confident in his innocence why not simply trust his future to the Lord and go to trial? If I was elderly and had a bad heart but knew I was innocent, there is NO WAY I would accept a plea bargain that would keep me out of prison but require that I lie about my guilt.
IF the plea agreement is, as presented by these individuals not a part of this case, it is interesting that no one has mentioned that this keeps the "victims" off the stand where their integrity and character could be defined for the jury to consider while rendering a verdict.
and this:
"Interesting, from all. My opinion is that TS should plead innocent, but admit I don't know all. I do tend to think God's people need to walk forward in faith and never in fear. We may not always see what is ahead of us, but he always does, and is the best guide.
I myself thought the plea bargain the wrong choice, I still do, but it was not my choice. He has plead guilty in this case and that's all there is to that. According to the law he is guilty of the charges filed. No one has a right to proclaim his innocence now as he has admitted he was not and admitted that to his victims and the court.
The following was also posted here and is my belief:
I received information a short time ago that a plea agreement has been reached in the Tommy Shelton sexual abuse cases currently pending in Virginia. According to sources, Tommy Ray Shelton will appear in court on Monday, July 19 in Fairfax County, Virginia and plead guilty to two counts of Custodial Indecent Liberties with two minors. Under the terms of this agreement, he will face no prison time but will be required to register as a sex offender, and will also receive probation for a length of time to be determined by the court.
To be clear, this will be two pleas of guilty, rather that pleas of no contest
hmmm... I admit, just as I did before when the charges against Tommy were revealed that this is distressing (if true), very, but I also find it curious that you and so many here accusing 3abn, know, or claim to know, all about this, when those at 3abn, and those defending them know nothing about it, and the hearing hasn't taken place, nor have any news sources reported this.
As before, those who aren't involved or in the know (3abn or me ....)will just have to wait for the court documents and the news in order to know what the real facts are.
This i will say and do not apologize to either party. IF TS is not guilty and pleads guilty to avoid a trial, expense and a greater charge, I consider that a lie.
If he is guilty when he earlier claimed he was innocent. That is also a lie.
Bottom line? I hate child abuse, and I hate lies.
I welcomed a trial as the facts would be known, and doubt they will be now if what is reported is true...
Sadly though, this case has nothing to do with Pickle's allegations against DS and 3ABN, or the lawsuit, and yet all here in my opinion (yet to be proved) will keep trying to make it so..
It is also my belief that if he was innocent, and only plead guilty(lied) to avoid jail, and ends up getting sent to jail anyway due to that plea, well it is heartbreakingly ironic... and that's all I can say about that... other than I hope all have gotten what they sought and can move on now to find inner peace and heal.
EDIT- to correct font only.
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I must confess, this is one of those inglorious moments when years of work have finally found some justice...incomplete, but justice, nonetheless.
I am sure Counsel has told his client to "pack your toothbrush" for the sentencing hearing. Problem for the defendant is that this is not a victimless crime and the bench will be aware this will be only two of many!!!
It will be almost four years to the day of sentencing that the facsimile went off in my office and Ray took it from the fax bin and with a shocked look told me I needed to read this.
Know what??? I did check the sex predator registry in the many states and came to the conclusion it was a hoax...particularly since the source of the story was not known.
The office phone rang and Ray answered while I finished my cursory records check. Ray answered a query with "yes, I did receive a fax and gave it to Arthur". That caught my attention and he transferred the call to my desk phone. The source was more than "credible" and I reluctantly agreed to "check it out" and the interviews began.
My life would never be the same...I had bought the story that Danny was a jilted lover and Linda had flown off to Sweden to be with the doctor…against the best judgment of my wife’s best friend who insisted that there was more to the story. In a twist of irony, this stalwart defender of the church insisted I was showing a lack of due diligence!!! Go figure, Molly had confirmed my inquiry and I had no reason to believe she was telling anything other than the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
I had helped my Uncle contribute a major portion of his estate to the benefit of 3ABN.
I had just been part of a small team that had passed out over six thousand “Ten Commandments Twice Removed” for the very first Ten Commandments weekend in May 2006. Ray and I had passed them out in sun and rain and even after dark to achieve our objectives (door to door and a contact each time).
And many other family members contributed and supported 3ABN with vigor…one even played frequent roles on Kid’s Time Skits.
I did not want to believe there was anything to these damning documents…and the rest is history. The old adage: “where there is smoke, there is fire!!!” became ever so true. My faith in the ministry created to “counteract the counterfeit” and the “dream” would go down in flames, forever shattered, as I realized the truth was stranger than fiction. And fate would require that I publish my findings!!!
Some, who clearly do not know me well, have asked: “would you do it over again???” and my absolutely firm response remains to this day “ABSOLUTELY”. And it is not over yet!!!
The two great opportunities that came from this process were getting to know ‘BOB PICKLE’, every bit my equal and then some. He is a solid rock of principal and with a backbone unequaled, contrary to many of the players in this satire of ironies. The other was getting to know Linda Sue Shelton, also a tower of Faith, just as I had perceived her to be on all those 3ABN Presents. She towers head and shoulders over almost every ministry person I have come in contact with, perhaps with the exception of the Pastor Halverson.
I have had opportunity to expand my list of acquaintances exponentially, some friendly and many not. At the end of the day, I am still that nasty old AUReporter, ever consumed to expose some new corruption, to the chagrin of the Stockholders in the Pews.
We always pray that some sense will come of all this…some logical justice achieved…but only the Lord knows the end from the beginning and knows the purpose of these many conflicts. After all, I report, you decide!!!
In retrospect, every file is sheer nostalgia. Normally, it would be time to write a book, but “Who Watches, Who Cares”???
C'est la vie!!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUREPORTER
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Sad business, but I can't help but notice there does appear to be a difference in the report from the Washington post and the reports we got from Gailon Arthur Joy and Bob Pickle.
Gailon is the one who said that the prosecutor already had the medical records, not me. So there is nothing from the Washington Post that conflicts with what I said.
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It will be almost four years to the day of sentencing that the facsimile went off in my office and Ray took it from the fax bin and with a shocked look told me I needed to read this.
Dryden sent a copy of his 2003 letter to Walt Thompson to me, saying I could forward it to Adventist church leaders. I forwarded it to four pastors and administrators, and that forwarding led to that same letter being faxed around the next day to Gailon, whom I had never heard of.
This whole scandal should have never started, and should have ended a long time ago. It is a real travesty that it still is ongoing, and that the litigation Danny launched against Gailon and me in retaliation for our blowing the whistle is not yet resolved.
But that is more the choice of Danny Shelton, Walt Thompson, Jim Gilley, Mollie Steenson, Bill Hulsey, Ellsworth McKee, CA Murray, Carmelita Troy, Max Trevino, Wintley Phipps, Larry Romrell, and the other 3ABN board members than ours. They can resolve a major issue by simply ordering Attorney Greg Simpson to cease and desist his attempted confidentiality designation of documents that don't qualify for protection under the confidentiality order.
It really is despicable that Simpson, Danny, and 3ABN would attempt yet again to cover up the child molestation allegations against Tommy in January 2010 by trying to reassert their bogus confidentiality designation of the documents we got from Dunn Loring about Tommy. Tommy's admitted pedophilia is NOT a trade secret of 3ABN or DLS Publishing, and it is really absurd for Danny, 3ABN, and Simpson to pretend that Tommy's pedophilia is a trade secret.
You'd think Danny Shelton by now would have learned to quit acting like some Roman Catholic bishop in trying to cover up Tommy's now-admitted child molestation.
I want to see the litigation over once and for all, entirely over. But I will not consent to the surrender of my First Amendment freedoms. I will not be a party to any attempted cover up of Tommy's pedophilia. So until Danny and/or 3ABN and/or Simpson come to their senses and decide to stand for principle and do the right thing, I remain a defendant in the scandalous lawsuit, 3ABN and Danny Shelton v. Joy and Pickle.
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This was published in the Washington Post today, July 20th.
Ex-pastor of Fairfax church pleads guilty to molesting two boys in the 1990s
By Tom Jackman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 20, 2010
The former pastor of a Fairfax County church pleaded guilty Monday to molesting two boys who were under his supervision in the 1990s, and Fairfax prosecutors agreed to a deal in which the man would spend no time in jail.
But Fairfax Circuit Court Judge Randy I. Bellows said he might not accept the deal, in which case the defendant, Tommy R. Shelton Jr., could withdraw his plea and take the case to another judge.
Shelton, 65, was the pastor of Community Church of God in the Dunn Loring area from 1995 to 2000. Authorities said two men contacted Fairfax police in 2008 and said that Shelton had sexually assaulted them in the 1990s.
Shelton, who had been living in Kentucky, was arrested in March.
Both accusers were in the courtroom for Shelton's pleas to two felony counts of taking indecent liberties with a child under his supervision. Each charge carries a penalty of up to five years in prison. Both said afterward that they approved of the plea deal, although it doesn't include jail time, as long as Shelton acknowledges his guilt and is placed on a sex offender registry.
One of the men testified at a hearing in May that Shelton had performed oral sex on him in 1995 or 1996, when the man was 14, and Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Katherine E. Stott confirmed that account Monday. Shelton had been seeing the boy for counseling and piano lessons, Stott said, and had told him that their sexual activities were "the type of relationship a father and son had."
The other man also testified in May. He said that when he was 11, he and Shelton would go for bike rides and that Shelton would direct him into the woods and fondle him. Stott said that on one occasion, Shelton molested the boy in the kitchen of the Community Church of God on Gallows Road.
Bellows, a former federal prosecutor, seemed skeptical of a plea bargain with no jail time. "I'm telling you all right now," the judge said, "I may ultimately reject this agreement."
Shelton has been free on bond. Bellows said that without the plea agreement, he "would have little doubt about incarcerating the defendant pending sentencing." But prosecutors did not ask for Shelton's bond to be revoked, or for any jail sentence, so he allowed Shelton to remain free.
Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said that she had discussed the proposal with the two complainants, along with the risks and burdens of going to trial, and that they had accepted it.
She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about the events of 15 years ago. Shelton had not spoken to police and had no criminal record, she said.
After the hearing, the two men said they would be prepared to testify if the judge rejects the plea deal and Shelton goes to trial.
"It's been a long time coming," said one of the men, 24.
The other man, 29, said: "He's taken something from me I'll never get back. . . . As long as he's admitted guilt and he's a registered sex offender, that he can't do this to others, that's really what I wanted."
Shelton declined to comment after the hearing. Bellows ordered a pre-sentence report and set a sentencing hearing for Sept. 24, at which he will decide whether to accept the plea deal.
If Bellows rejects the deal, Shelton can withdraw his plea or proceed with sentencing, at which the judge could give him up to 10 years in prison.
If Shelton withdraws his plea, the case would be assigned to another judge, and Shelton, his attorneys and Stott could devise another plea agreement, submit the same agreement to the new judge or go to trial.
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Forgive me all for mispeaking. The plea does incude no jail time. Which is a bit troubling, but after so long a time, understandable.
I must go back and read the articles, but what exactly does the plea involve?
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There is no guarantee that TS will not re-offend just because he is a registered sex offender. You hear it all the time in the news. The only way to protect children is to put the offender away. I think they all should be sent to a deserted island far far from society and left with a few cans of spam and canned peas. Just my opinion.
My question for someone is why does it take two months before the sentence is given out?
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There is no guarantee that TS will not re-offend just because he is a registered sex offender. You hear it all the time in the news. The only way to protect children is to put the offender away. I think they all should be sent to a deserted island far far from society and left with a few cans of spam and canned peas. Just my opinion.
My question for someone is why does it take two months before the sentence is given out?
You are correct, Grat. This has been evident for nearly 30 or mor years. However, I understand why the victims agreed to this.
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There is no guarantee that TS will not re-offend just because he is a registered sex offender. You hear it all the time in the news. The only way to protect children is to put the offender away. I think they all should be sent to a deserted island far far from society and left with a few cans of spam and canned peas. Just my opinion.
My question for someone is why does it take two months before the sentence is given out?
You are correct, Grat. This has been evident for nearly 30 or mor years. However, I understand why the victims agreed to this.
Can you help me to understand? These are from the news papers.
"A former pastor accused of molesting two minors at a church in Dunn Loring turned himself into Fairfax County Police on Tuesday, March 16.Tommy Shelton, 64, of Marion, Kentucky, was charged with two counts of aggravated sexual battery, two counts of indecent liberties with a minor, and sodomy."
"Katherine E. Stott reduced the sodomy charge, which carried a minimum of five years and a maximum of life in prison, to carnal knowledge, which has a range of two to 10 years in prison. Subsequent testimony by the first complaining witness did not fit the sodomy charge. A count of aggravated sexual battery of that witness, with a sentencing range of one to 20 years in prison, was reduced to custodial indecent liberties, with a range of up to five years in prison. A charge of aggravated sexual battery of the second witness was not reduced."
"Both accusers were in the courtroom for Shelton's pleas to two felony counts of taking indecent liberties with a child under his supervision. Each charge carries a penalty of up to five years in prison. Both said afterward that they approved of the plea deal, although it doesn't include jail time, as long as Shelton acknowledges his guilt and is placed on a sex offender registry...Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said that she had discussed the proposal with the two complainants, along with the risks and burdens of going to trial, and that they had accepted it. She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about the events of 15 years ago. Shelton had not spoken to police and had no criminal record, she said."
I don't understand why they would agree to let him plead guilty to reduced charges with no jail time. Isn't he just going to be on probation?
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There is no guarantee that TS will not re-offend just because he is a registered sex offender. You hear it all the time in the news. The only way to protect children is to put the offender away. I think they all should be sent to a deserted island far far from society and left with a few cans of spam and canned peas. Just my opinion.
My question for someone is why does it take two months before the sentence is given out?
You are correct, Grat. This has been evident for nearly 30 or mor years. However, I understand why the victims agreed to this.
Can you help me to understand? These are from the news papers.
"A former pastor accused of molesting two minors at a church in Dunn Loring turned himself into Fairfax County Police on Tuesday, March 16.Tommy Shelton, 64, of Marion, Kentucky, was charged with two counts of aggravated sexual battery, two counts of indecent liberties with a minor, and sodomy."
"Katherine E. Stott reduced the sodomy charge, which carried a minimum of five years and a maximum of life in prison, to carnal knowledge, which has a range of two to 10 years in prison. Subsequent testimony by the first complaining witness did not fit the sodomy charge. A count of aggravated sexual battery of that witness, with a sentencing range of one to 20 years in prison, was reduced to custodial indecent liberties, with a range of up to five years in prison. A charge of aggravated sexual battery of the second witness was not reduced."
"Both accusers were in the courtroom for Shelton's pleas to two felony counts of taking indecent liberties with a child under his supervision. Each charge carries a penalty of up to five years in prison. Both said afterward that they approved of the plea deal, although it doesn't include jail time, as long as Shelton acknowledges his guilt and is placed on a sex offender registry...Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said that she had discussed the proposal with the two complainants, along with the risks and burdens of going to trial, and that they had accepted it. She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about the events of 15 years ago. Shelton had not spoken to police and had no criminal record, she said."
I don't understand why they would agree to let him plead guilty to reduced charges with no jail time. Isn't he just going to be on probation?
Alli I can do is explain what I have been told by one of the victims. My understanding is this:
The sodomy charged had to be dropped because one of the victims was over the age of 13. So they had to charge him with carnal knowledge. I am not really sure why the other charges was reduced. Some have said that the Grand Jury is the one who changed these charges. That is not true. These charges was changed at the Preliminary hearing.
The charges that was in place before the plea agreement was :
Carnal knowledge
2 counts of Indecent liberties
2 counts of sexual battery
I may be wrong on those above. I'm just not sure.
My understanding is that the defense approached the prosecutor and asked if they agreed to plea guilty to two counts of indecent liberties, would she drop the jail time. From what the news article says, she approached the two victims about this plea deal, and they accepted it.
I have been told, that Tommy's attorney's first approached the Prosecutor about a plea that required he only plead guilty to two misdemeanors. Which would not require jail time or registry. Basically a slap on the wrist. The prosecutor said that was not an option.
As far as the question on probation. I have been told that yes, there would be no jail time, but would be a period of probation which would be determined by the courts.
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The first deal they asked for also would not have required registering as a sex offender.
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To me it sort of sounds like both sides might be "gambling" on better outcome to fit Plaintive side for better justice with the "guilty" plea in the end.
The otherside gives some options that are also benefit to the victims and basically no way out for TS.
The victims realize that they are not the final say, the judge is -so the easiest move is to agree for that guilty "plea" that seem to bring in the least accusations and victims and the grave consequences not contributed to the victims, . and the judge has sort of given his view and thoughts already and a slight gamble now is maybe a new judge they can ask for if sentencing is not what "Sheltons" gambled on. Next, there is the Shelton family being drug thru to answer maybe even more victims and more closets stuff brought out and then there is the big bucks they are going to have to pay and still end up even worse with jury and guess what the attorneys may not get anything from TS assets. So therefore it brings in big brother's money. So why not take the chance that the victims agreed when the victims can come back in civil with the simplicity of TS just admitting his guilt and think he is getting it over with without fanfare. I think each side is gambling and it appears the victim side was wise to agree like they did because the good ole judge may give justice. "Sheltons" will need their money maybe later for worse things.....they know what they have done! They are no doubt gambling where and what is going to be the best use of future lawyer fees. and now the Sheltons's got to let TS go where the judge decides. I think they are gambling on probation but I hope they get shocked by the judge. I think it was a good deal not to put the victims through anymore and that was the best thing. I feel the judge will take it from there off their shoulders. Both sides of attorney's in their right mind no what TS has done. So the best shot went down for the victims. Remember there is more then 2.
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Now that the first two stones have broken loose, it is possible that an avalanche will follow.
Remember there is more then 2.
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Thank you again, Samuel. Your answer was very helpful. I am sorry though because I think I asked my question in a confusing way. That isn't your fault. It is mine. Thank you for being patient with me. I will try again. You wrote this:"I understand why the victims agreed to this." I was mostly trying to ask if you could help me to also understand why the victims agreed to this. If that is something you can't, or shouldn't, answer? I will understand. :)
There is no guarantee that TS will not re-offend just because he is a registered sex offender. You hear it all the time in the news. The only way to protect children is to put the offender away. I think they all should be sent to a deserted island far far from society and left with a few cans of spam and canned peas. Just my opinion.
My question for someone is why does it take two months before the sentence is given out?
You are correct, Grat. This has been evident for nearly 30 or mor years. However, I understand why the victims agreed to this.
Can you help me to understand? These are from the news papers.
"A former pastor accused of molesting two minors at a church in Dunn Loring turned himself into Fairfax County Police on Tuesday, March 16.Tommy Shelton, 64, of Marion, Kentucky, was charged with two counts of aggravated sexual battery, two counts of indecent liberties with a minor, and sodomy."
"Katherine E. Stott reduced the sodomy charge, which carried a minimum of five years and a maximum of life in prison, to carnal knowledge, which has a range of two to 10 years in prison. Subsequent testimony by the first complaining witness did not fit the sodomy charge. A count of aggravated sexual battery of that witness, with a sentencing range of one to 20 years in prison, was reduced to custodial indecent liberties, with a range of up to five years in prison. A charge of aggravated sexual battery of the second witness was not reduced."
"Both accusers were in the courtroom for Shelton's pleas to two felony counts of taking indecent liberties with a child under his supervision. Each charge carries a penalty of up to five years in prison. Both said afterward that they approved of the plea deal, although it doesn't include jail time, as long as Shelton acknowledges his guilt and is placed on a sex offender registry...Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said that she had discussed the proposal with the two complainants, along with the risks and burdens of going to trial, and that they had accepted it. She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about the events of 15 years ago. Shelton had not spoken to police and had no criminal record, she said."
I don't understand why they would agree to let him plead guilty to reduced charges with no jail time. Isn't he just going to be on probation?
Alli I can do is explain what I have been told by one of the victims. My understanding is this:
The sodomy charged had to be dropped because one of the victims was over the age of 13. So they had to charge him with carnal knowledge. I am not really sure why the other charges was reduced. Some have said that the Grand Jury is the one who changed these charges. That is not true. These charges was changed at the Preliminary hearing.
The charges that was in place before the plea agreement was :
Carnal knowledge
2 counts of Indecent liberties
2 counts of sexual battery
I may be wrong on those above. I'm just not sure.
My understanding is that the defense approached the prosecutor and asked if they agreed to plea guilty to two counts of indecent liberties, would she drop the jail time. From what the news article says, she approached the two victims about this plea deal, and they accepted it.
I have been told, that Tommy's attorney's first approached the Prosecutor about a plea that required he only plead guilty to two misdemeanors. Which would not require jail time or registry. Basically a slap on the wrist. The prosecutor said that was not an option.
As far as the question on probation. I have been told that yes, there would be no jail time, but would be a period of probation which would be determined by the courts.
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Now that the first two stones have broken loose, it is possible that an avalanche will follow.
Remember there is more then 2.
Possibly, and possibly not. We will just have to wait and see. This is a bit offtopic, but interesting choice of a new forum name. Some might even say it fits perfectly. ;)
Murciélago
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Murciélago was a Navarra fighting bull known for having survived 28 sword strokes in an October 5, 1879 fight against Rafael "El Lagartijo" Molina Sanchez, at the Coso de los califas bullring in Córdoba, Spain.
Murciélago fought with such passion and spirit that the crowd called for his life to be spared, an honor which the matador bestowed. The bull, which came from the farm of Joaquin del Val di Navarra, was later presented as a gift to Don Antonio Miura. Together with his brother, Don Eduardo Miura, they brought Murciélago into the Miura line by siring him with 70 cows. Bulls from the Miura ranch, located near Seville, Spain, are known for being large and ferocious.
Italian automaker Lamborghini named one of its supercars "Murciélago", as part of the company's tradition of naming its cars for Miura bulls and other bullfighting-related terms. "Murciélago" means bat in Spanish.
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Grat asked:
My question for someone is why does it take two months before the sentence is given out?
During this period of time TS's life will be investigated. The questions asked are: Is there evidence in this life that should serve to reduce his sentence, or to not give him jail time at all? Is there evidence in his life that should serve to support a jail sentence and of what length?
During this time the prosecution and the defense will each be preparing to argue their view of the sentence that should be given TS. Judges often have leaway and can give from a range of sentences. When the judge has the option of chosing from a range of sentences, the individual has a civil right to demand that the sentence not be arbitrary, but considered based upon evidence. Each side will attempt to present evidence as to why the sentence should be whatever they want to argue. A judge who fails to take this into consideration will often be overruled and directed by an Appealate court to review and resentence the individual.
Now, what are some of the issus that might be introduced: Service as an upstanding community figure who had contributed much to the community might be one issue. On the other hand, other instances of criminal activity also might be considered--of course the defense would argue that such should not be considered.
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Grat asked:
My question for someone is why does it take two months before the sentence is given out?
During this period of time TS's life will be investigated. The questions asked are: Is there evidence in this life that should serve to reduce his sentence, or to not give him jail time at all? Is there evidence in his life that should serve to support a jail sentence and of what length?
During this time the prosecution and the defense will each be preparing to argue their view of the sentence that should be given TS. Judges often have leaway and can give from a range of sentences. When the judge has the option of chosing from a range of sentences, the individual has a civil right to demand that the sentence not be arbitrary, but considered based upon evidence. Each side will attempt to present evidence as to why the sentence should be whatever they want to argue. A judge who fails to take this into consideration will often be overruled and directed by an Appealate court to review and resentence the individual.
Now, what are some of the issus that might be introduced: Service as an upstanding community figure who had contributed much to the community might be one issue. On the other hand, other instances of criminal activity also might be considered--of course the defense would argue that such should not be considered.
I believe you are confused or have been mislead. This isn't about sentencing. The judge will decide if he wants to accept the plea bargain or move for trial. Should he decide to accept the plea bargain, then he may or may not proceed to sentencing. So much has been made of the guilty plea which is ludicrous considering that 80% of all cases end in a plea bargain with one condition being, that the accused plead guilty. Many prosecutors will not even offer a plea bargain unless the accused pleads guilty. It is a technicality of the law, not an admission of guilt. There are innocent people all over this country who have pled guilty to crimes they didn't commit because of their circumstances. IMO TS had many reasons to go along with that plea. He and his wife sold their Kentucky home to pay for a defense. They are tapped out financially and therefore cannot pay for 2 long drawn out trials. Some may say they could have gotten a loan but how do you do that when you are both only drawing social security? 2 other big factors are his age and his health situation, not to mention having to stay somewhere or with someone in Va all of these months.
All the talk about civil suits (which are always about money) are pipe dreams with the Sheltons financial situation. As the old saying goes "you can't get blood out of a turnip". Translated that means you can't get money where there is none. Not too many attorney's are going to take a case where you go after someone that has already been wiped out financially.
Let us use some common sense here. The prosecutor would never have offered a plea with no jail time if she had confidence in her cases. Here you have 2 cases that are at least, 15 years old. You have no witnesses.
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The plea bargain speaks for itself as Prosecutors don't offer pleas with no jail time in these types of cases unless they are fairly certain they can't win. Again, the technicality of a guilty plea means nothing.
As far as GM's comments about the judge looking into TS's background, that is another technicality that means they check to see if he has any prior criminal record. In actuality that should take about 2 minutes on the computer. In the court system it takes 2 months.
Edited to remove inappropriate content.
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I wish to thank you. I know people being talked about here by both sides and it is sometimes hard to tell who is telling the truth because the stories don't sound like the people I know about and everybody is mad at everybody.This all does make sense to me, and it is good to hear both sides. I think we always have to hear both sides. I don't know alex walker, and I don't know Tommy Shelton or whether he is guilty or whether he is being lied about, but samuel has been very nice to me, that was why I asked him why the victims would accept the plea bargain because he said he understood their reasons and I do not understand that. I think he should already know about Alex's mom though if he is Alex's friend and he should know if Alex lies. Maybe he will answer here, or maybe someone else should ask Alex' mom instead of him,or in addition to him to verify things for everyone. because that would be better. I would but I don't know how to get hold of her or what her name is. If somebody tells me, I will do it.
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I forgot to say. About Tommy Shelton's background and criminal history, the Washington post
said when the judge asked the prosecutor "She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about events up to 15 years ago, that Shelton had not spoken to police and had no prior criminal record."
But what about the other cases and other victims will that be brought up too? Are they allowed to do that, or not? I don't know. I have questions about how this all works.
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Grat asked:
My question for someone is why does it take two months before the sentence is given out?
During this period of time TS's life will be investigated. The questions asked are: Is there evidence in this life that should serve to reduce his sentence, or to not give him jail time at all? Is there evidence in his life that should serve to support a jail sentence and of what length?
During this time the prosecution and the defense will each be preparing to argue their view of the sentence that should be given TS. Judges often have leaway and can give from a range of sentences. When the judge has the option of chosing from a range of sentences, the individual has a civil right to demand that the sentence not be arbitrary, but considered based upon evidence. Each side will attempt to present evidence as to why the sentence should be whatever they want to argue. A judge who fails to take this into consideration will often be overruled and directed by an Appealate court to review and resentence the individual.
Thank you Gregory.
Now, what are some of the issus that might be introduced: Service as an upstanding community figure who had contributed much to the community might be one issue. On the other hand, other instances of criminal activity also might be considered--of course the defense would argue that such should not be considered.
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GRAT, I looked this up to try and understand, and to help everybody. Because the Washington Post said:"Bellows ordered a pre-sentence report, and set a sentencing hearing for Sept. 24, where he will decide whether to accept or reject the plea deal."
http://resources.lawinfo.com/en/Legal-FAQs/Sentencing-and-Sanctions/Federal/what-is-the-sentencing-hearing.html
What Is The Sentencing Hearing?
Except for minor offenses, such as infractions a sentencing hearing is held where the final sentence or penalty is determined. The law gives the judge a great deal of leeway in determining what the sentence may be. The character of and circumstances surrounding the defendant can be as important as the severity of the crime in determining what sentence will be imposed.
The sentence is imposed after the jury or judge has provided the judgment. At the sentencing hearing, both the prosecution and the defense are given the opportunity to present evidence and testimony to recommend an appropriate sentence. The judge is free to ignore these recommendations, even if the prosecutor and defense lawyer have agreed to a sentence as a part of a plea agreement.
Sentencing
Except for minor offenses, such as infractions, the law gives the judge a great deal of latitude in determinging the sentence. The character and circumstances of the defendant can be as important as the severity of the crime determining what sentence will be imposed.
Procedurally, the sentence is imposed after a separate hearing, held at least two days after judgment has been rendered by the jury or the judge, unless the defendant waives this right. At the sentencing hearing, both sides have the opportunity to present evidence and testimony to recommend an appropriate sentence. The judge is free to ignore these recommendations, even if the prosecutor and defense counsel have agreed to a sentence as a part of a plea agreement. In that event, the defendant may be allowed to withdraw his/her plea.
Presentence Investigation Report
In addition to the information supplied by parties, the judge is typically supplied with a presentence investigation report. A presentence investigation may be ordered in any criminal case. However, presentence investigations are not typically provided in misdemenaor criminal matters because there are not sufficient presentence investigators in the Department of Corrections to provide this support. In a felony case, the judge may state his/her reasons on the record for failing to order a presentence investigation.
The presentence investigator interviews the defendant and often other individuals such as relatives, friends, and employers. With that information, the presentence investigator compiles a social history of the defendant which covers the defendant's education, employment record, family situation, physical and mental health, and community ties. The presentence investigator will also assemble the defendant's prior criminal record, the defendant's version of the facts surrounding the crime, and the police and other witnesses' verion of those facts.
In appropriate cases, the investigator will recommend alternatives for rehabilitation such as counseling but the report does not contain a recommendation on the length of the sentence. The prosecution and defense typically have access to the presentence report prior to the sentencing hearing. Either side may present evidence to rebut or supplement the presentence investigation report. The report is not available to the media or the public.
If a formal presentence investigation has not been ordered, the judge will at least be supplied with the defendant's prior criminal record and may ask the defendant and his/her lawyer to prepare an informal presentence report.
At the conclusion of the presentence hearing, the judge must give the defendant an opportunity to speak on his/her own behalf. Then the judge pronounces the sentence. The length of the sentence imposed must be within the statutory minimum and maximum time prescribed by law for that offense but the type of sentence is up to the judge's discretion with a few important qualifications. Statutory minimum and maximum for most crimes are included in case law. For example, the habitual criminal or persistent violator outlined in Idaho Code section 19-2514 is imposed when a person is convicted of three or more felonies and is considered a persistent violator in this situation and the individual is subjected to a sentence of at least five years to life.
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If Tommy has pleaded guilty and is not guilty he is a liar, how is it possible to believe the word of a liar? Would a Christian lie under these circumstances? No, a Christian is bound by his relationship with God to tell the truth. I believe that Tommy is a guilty man just trying not to pay any plenty for his crimes. Why do I believe this? I have heard from more than one credible source that he molested a member of his own family and that the Sheltons are aware of this situation. Where did this information come from? Sheltons...more than one. Cindy and all the others are defending a known child molester. Why? Is she merely a fool deceived or a liar? For the former circumstance I can feel pity, for the latter contempt. There have been more than enough victims in the Shelton Saga, isn't time for the punishment to fit the crime? Cindy, why would Tommy lie if he were innocent? Has he no faith in God to deliver an innocent man? Or is it just the opposite? Is he fearful of facing the judgement of God and man reserved for those who defile the innocent?
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TS admitted it. He pled guilty. End of story. You're calling him a liar again, coward.
Grat asked:
My question for someone is why does it take two months before the sentence is given out?
During this period of time TS's life will be investigated. The questions asked are: Is there evidence in this life that should serve to reduce his sentence, or to not give him jail time at all? Is there evidence in his life that should serve to support a jail sentence and of what length?
During this time the prosecution and the defense will each be preparing to argue their view of the sentence that should be given TS. Judges often have leaway and can give from a range of sentences. When the judge has the option of chosing from a range of sentences, the individual has a civil right to demand that the sentence not be arbitrary, but considered based upon evidence. Each side will attempt to present evidence as to why the sentence should be whatever they want to argue. A judge who fails to take this into consideration will often be overruled and directed by an Appealate court to review and resentence the individual.
Now, what are some of the issus that might be introduced: Service as an upstanding community figure who had contributed much to the community might be one issue. On the other hand, other instances of criminal activity also might be considered--of course the defense would argue that such should not be considered.
I believe you are confused or have been mislead. This isn't about sentencing. The judge will decide if he wants to accept the plea bargain or move for trial. Should he decide to accept the plea bargain, then he may or may not proceed to sentencing. So much has been made of the guilty plea which is ludicrous considering that 80% of all cases end in a plea bargain with one condition being, that the accused plead guilty. Many prosecutors will not even offer a plea bargain unless the accused pleads guilty. It is a technicality of the law, not an admission of guilt. There are innocent people all over this country who have pled guilty to crimes they didn't commit because of their circumstances. IMO TS had many reasons to go along with that plea. He and his wife sold their Kentucky home to pay for a defense. They are tapped out financially and therefore cannot pay for 2 long drawn out trials. Some may say they could have gotten a loan but how do you do that when you are both only drawing social security? 2 other big factors are his age and his health situation, not to mention having to stay somewhere or with someone in Va all of these months.
All the talk about civil suits (which are always about money) are pipe dreams with the Sheltons financial situation. As the old saying goes "you can't get blood out of a turnip". Translated that means you can't get money where there is none. Not too many attorney's are going to take a case where you go after someone that has already been wiped out financially.
Let us use some common sense here. The prosecutor would never have offered a plea with no jail time if she had confidence in her cases. Here you have 2 cases that are at least, 15 years old. You have no witnesses.
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The plea bargain speaks for itself as Prosecutors don't offer pleas with no jail time in these types of cases unless they are fairly certain they can't win. Again, the technicality of a guilty plea means nothing.
As far as GM's comments about the judge looking into TS's background, that is another technicality that means they check to see if he has any prior criminal record. In actuality that should take about 2 minutes on the computer. In the court system it takes 2 months.
Edited to remove inappropriate content.
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Yes, most recently we can point to the Dugard(?)girl who was abducted and found years later, all the time in the hands of a registered sex offender on probation, etc. Or so many we hear about he still live near schools, or "find" themselves in the company of young children.............they don't seeme dto be able to control themselves.In this case, it seems to be even more problmatic, as we actually see him or his supporters taking responsiblity for his actions. It is just all so sad.
There is no guarantee that TS will not re-offend just because he is a registered sex offender. You hear it all the time in the news. The only way to protect children is to put the offender away. I think they all should be sent to a deserted island far far from society and left with a few cans of spam and canned peas. Just my opinion.
My question for someone is why does it take two months before the sentence is given out?
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Grat asked:
My question for someone is why does it take two months before the sentence is given out?
During this period of time TS's life will be investigated. The questions asked are: Is there evidence in this life that should serve to reduce his sentence, or to not give him jail time at all? Is there evidence in his life that should serve to support a jail sentence and of what length?
During this time the prosecution and the defense will each be preparing to argue their view of the sentence that should be given TS. Judges often have leaway and can give from a range of sentences. When the judge has the option of chosing from a range of sentences, the individual has a civil right to demand that the sentence not be arbitrary, but considered based upon evidence. Each side will attempt to present evidence as to why the sentence should be whatever they want to argue. A judge who fails to take this into consideration will often be overruled and directed by an Appealate court to review and resentence the individual.
Now, what are some of the issus that might be introduced: Service as an upstanding community figure who had contributed much to the community might be one issue. On the other hand, other instances of criminal activity also might be considered--of course the defense would argue that such should not be considered.
Thank you Gregory.
Edited to fix where I didn't go down far enough to place my comment where it needed to be. :-[
Edited only to fix formatting.
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Well, that didn't work but I tried. :hot:
Edited to add a thank you to Harley. Was much clearer to me after reading your post.
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Grat asked:
My question for someone is why does it take two months before the sentence is given out?
During this period of time TS's life will be investigated. The questions asked are: Is there evidence in this life that should serve to reduce his sentence, or to not give him jail time at all? Is there evidence in his life that should serve to support a jail sentence and of what length?
During this time the prosecution and the defense will each be preparing to argue their view of the sentence that should be given TS. Judges often have leaway and can give from a range of sentences. When the judge has the option of chosing from a range of sentences, the individual has a civil right to demand that the sentence not be arbitrary, but considered based upon evidence. Each side will attempt to present evidence as to why the sentence should be whatever they want to argue. A judge who fails to take this into consideration will often be overruled and directed by an Appealate court to review and resentence the individual.
Now, what are some of the issus that might be introduced: Service as an upstanding community figure who had contributed much to the community might be one issue. On the other hand, other instances of criminal activity also might be considered--of course the defense would argue that such should not be considered.
I believe you are confused or have been mislead. This isn't about sentencing. The judge will decide if he wants to accept the plea bargain or move for trial. Should he decide to accept the plea bargain, then he may or may not proceed to sentencing. So much has been made of the guilty plea which is ludicrous considering that 80% of all cases end in a plea bargain with one condition being, that the accused plead guilty. Many prosecutors will not even offer a plea bargain unless the accused pleads guilty. It is a technicality of the law, not an admission of guilt. There are innocent people all over this country who have pled guilty to crimes they didn't commit because of their circumstances. IMO TS had many reasons to go along with that plea. He and his wife sold their Kentucky home to pay for a defense. They are tapped out financially and therefore cannot pay for 2 long drawn out trials. Some may say they could have gotten a loan but how do you do that when you are both only drawing social security? 2 other big factors are his age and his health situation, not to mention having to stay somewhere or with someone in Va all of these months.
All the talk about civil suits (which are always about money) are pipe dreams with the Sheltons financial situation. As the old saying goes "you can't get blood out of a turnip". Translated that means you can't get money where there is none. Not too many attorney's are going to take a case where you go after someone that has already been wiped out financially.
Let us use some common sense here. The prosecutor would never have offered a plea with no jail time if she had confidence in her cases. Here you have 2 cases that are at least, 15 years old. You have no witnesses.
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The plea bargain speaks for itself as Prosecutors don't offer pleas with no jail time in these types of cases unless they are fairly certain they can't win. Again, the technicality of a guilty plea means nothing.
As far as GM's comments about the judge looking into TS's background, that is another technicality that means they check to see if he has any prior criminal record. In actuality that should take about 2 minutes on the computer. In the court system it takes 2 months.
Edited to remove inappropriate content.
Sam.I hear you are running at the mouth again. If anyone wishes to talk to my mother pm me and I will be more than happy to give you her number. She will clarify that Sam is a liar. Then you too can come back and report the same. So if anyone has any doubt please pm me.
Harly if you pm me I will be more than happy to give you my mothers name and phone number.
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Grat asked:
My question for someone is why does it take two months before the sentence is given out?
During this period of time TS's life will be investigated. The questions asked are: Is there evidence in this life that should serve to reduce his sentence, or to not give him jail time at all? Is there evidence in his life that should serve to support a jail sentence and of what length?
During this time the prosecution and the defense will each be preparing to argue their view of the sentence that should be given TS. Judges often have leaway and can give from a range of sentences. When the judge has the option of chosing from a range of sentences, the individual has a civil right to demand that the sentence not be arbitrary, but considered based upon evidence. Each side will attempt to present evidence as to why the sentence should be whatever they want to argue. A judge who fails to take this into consideration will often be overruled and directed by an Appealate court to review and resentence the individual.
Now, what are some of the issus that might be introduced: Service as an upstanding community figure who had contributed much to the community might be one issue. On the other hand, other instances of criminal activity also might be considered--of course the defense would argue that such should not be considered.
I believe you are confused or have been mislead. This isn't about sentencing. The judge will decide if he wants to accept the plea bargain or move for trial. Should he decide to accept the plea bargain, then he may or may not proceed to sentencing. So much has been made of the guilty plea which is ludicrous considering that 80% of all cases end in a plea bargain with one condition being, that the accused plead guilty. Many prosecutors will not even offer a plea bargain unless the accused pleads guilty. It is a technicality of the law, not an admission of guilt. There are innocent people all over this country who have pled guilty to crimes they didn't commit because of their circumstances. IMO TS had many reasons to go along with that plea. He and his wife sold their Kentucky home to pay for a defense. They are tapped out financially and therefore cannot pay for 2 long drawn out trials. Some may say they could have gotten a loan but how do you do that when you are both only drawing social security? 2 other big factors are his age and his health situation, not to mention having to stay somewhere or with someone in Va all of these months.
All the talk about civil suits (which are always about money) are pipe dreams with the Sheltons financial situation. As the old saying goes "you can't get blood out of a turnip". Translated that means you can't get money where there is none. Not too many attorney's are going to take a case where you go after someone that has already been wiped out financially.
Let us use some common sense here. The prosecutor would never have offered a plea with no jail time if she had confidence in her cases. Here you have 2 cases that are at least, 15 years old. You have no witnesses.
*****************************************
*******************************************
The plea bargain speaks for itself as Prosecutors don't offer pleas with no jail time in these types of cases unless they are fairly certain they can't win. Again, the technicality of a guilty plea means nothing.
As far as GM's comments about the judge looking into TS's background, that is another technicality that means they check to see if he has any prior criminal record. In actuality that should take about 2 minutes on the computer. In the court system it takes 2 months.
Edited to remove inappropriate content.
Sam.I hear you are running at the mouth again. If anyone wishes to talk to my mother pm me and I will be more than happy to give you her number. She will clarify that Sam is a liar. Then you too can come back and report the same. So if anyone has any doubt please pm me.
Harly if you pm me I will be more than happy to give you my mothers name and phone number.
I already did Alex Walker. Thank you. :)
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Also Sam, I never LIED about Tommy selling his home in Ky. I even know the exact date that he sold it. I also know where he is moving too. Have I told lies in my past? Absolutley. Who hasn't? However, you are blowing it out of total context.
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Sam: Perhaps I am confused. I responded from the belief that it was a sentencing hearing. It the September 24 hearing is something else, I may have been confused.
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Sam, Sam, Sam. In fact yes, I do know Alex's mother. I also know that you are fabricating the truth.
First, You are in fact wrong when you say this is "Not an admission of guilt." Yes, it is!
Second, You state this:
All the talk about civil suits (which are always about money) are pipe dreams with the Sheltons financial situation. As the old saying goes "you can't get blood out of a turnip". Translated that means you can't get money where there is none. Not too many attorney's are going to take a case where you go after someone that has already been wiped out financially.
Sorry, Sam but attorneys have already been retained. So obviously they disagree with you.
Also, this talk about the prosecutor does not have enough evidence that is complete horse feathers. I know for a fact that the prosecutor was going to have a hay day with Alex's brother (Brad). Who called Alex and told him that he was sorry, and that he felt guilty about what happened. Not True? Yes, it is because that whole conversation was documented by a local attorney. Brad also stated to Alex that he has never nor would he ever leave his son alone with Tommy. Is that not true either? Yes, it is because that was also documented.
I also know that one certain person who knows Tommy quite well was also going to testify against Tommy. Guess you failed to mention that huh?
The prosecutor was not at all worried about losing as no they did not have many witness, but they felt that the defense was calling people who would be beneficial to them. So why should they waste their money, when Tommy was bringing them anyway? Just because they are subpoenaed by the defense does not mean they would not help the prosecution!!!!
Sam you are grasping at straws. In some ways I really do hope that the judge rejects this deal. That way you can see what type of a case the prosecution really did have.
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I forgot to say. About Tommy Shelton's background and criminal history, the Washington post
said when the judge asked the prosecutor "She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about events up to 15 years ago, that Shelton had not spoken to police and had no prior criminal record."
But what about the other cases and other victims will that be brought up too? Are they allowed to do that, or not? I don't know. I have questions about how this all works.
Harley:
The only victims that are allowed to testify are the ones that was abused in VA. Unless they put Tommy on the stand then they can call any victim that they chose.
Also, yes it is true that most of the prosecutions case will solely the victim's testimony. As I stated above just because they were not the ones who subpoenaed certain individuals does not mean they would not have helped the prosecution.
Hope this helps! :)
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IMO TS had many reasons to go along with that plea. He and his wife sold their Kentucky home to pay for a defense. They are tapped out financially and therefore cannot pay for 2 long drawn out trials.
So what? Didn't Ellen White write that we should be willing to die rather than sin, than commit a wrong act? Shouldn't Tommy, as a Church of God minister who has preached on sanctification, be willing to die rather than lie, rather than say he's guilty if he's not?
Besides, you've forgotten, Tommy could simply go pro se if he can't afford a lawyer. Or, the court could simply appoint him a lawyer.
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I think he should already know about Alex's mom though if he is Alex's friend and he should know if Alex lies.
Alex is only one of 7 alleged victims I have personally spoken with. I've also spoken with the mother of an 8th, and an eye witness. It isn't reasonable, in my opinion, for anyone to suggest that that many people are all lying.
The alleged victims span roughly 15 years or so, and three or four states. They agree, sometimes, in the very lines Tommy would use when propositioning the boys. Conspiracy theorists might want to deny the obvious, but most will not.
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I think he should already know about Alex's mom though if he is Alex's friend and he should know if Alex lies.
Alex is only one of 7 alleged victims I have personally spoken with. I've also spoken with the mother of an 8th, and an eye witness. It isn't reasonable, in my opinion, for anyone to suggest that that many people are all lying.
The alleged victims span roughly 15 years or so, and three or four states. They agree, sometimes, in the very lines Tommy would use when propositioning the boys. Conspiracy theorists might want to deny the obvious, but most will not.
Not to mention another victim who came forward just last week, after learning about the plea deal. I agree with you Bob, this talk that Tommy does not have enough money for defese, is pretty weak to say the least.
That is why public defenders are for. That is not an excuse Sam. Again, spitting in the air. Hope he has a good attorney when the other is filed!!!!
Also, I have seen it read elsewhere that all these victims want is money. That is beyond stupid. But, you know what, Tommy didn't think twice about doing what he did. I don't think they should either!!
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Sam: Perhaps I am confused. I responded from the belief that it was a sentencing hearing. It the September 24 hearing is something else, I may have been confused.
Gregory, you are not confused at all Sam is. It is a sentence hearing. If the judge accepts the deal on that date, Tommy will be sentenced.
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Sam the more I think about it. The more I wonder what gives you the right to make statements for my mother? Unless you are Brad. If not you have NO business even bringing her in it.
Quit using my mother to attack me you coward. That is sick, but not suprising you would stoop that low.
I am on here now, so if you want to attack me go ahead, but you would be best advised to leave her out of it. There may be consequences for failing to do so.
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Sam, Sam, Sam. In fact yes, I do know Alex's mother. I also know that you are fabricating the truth.... I know for a fact that the prosecutor was going to have a hay day with Alex's brother (Brad). Who called Alex and told him that he was sorry, and that he felt guilty about what happened. Not True? Yes, it is because that whole conversation was documented by a local attorney. Brad also stated to Alex that he has never nor would he ever leave his son alone with Tommy. Is that not true either? Yes, it is because that was also documented.
Sam the more I think about it. The more I wonder what gives you the right to make statements for my mother? Unless you are Brad. If not you have NO business even bringing her in it. Quit using my mother to attack me you coward. That is sick, but not suprising you would stoop that low.
:huh: :scratch:
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Sam, Sam, Sam. In fact yes, I do know Alex's mother. I also know that you are fabricating the truth.... I know for a fact that the prosecutor was going to have a hay day with Alex's brother (Brad). Who called Alex and told him that he was sorry, and that he felt guilty about what happened. Not True? Yes, it is because that whole conversation was documented by a local attorney. Brad also stated to Alex that he has never nor would he ever leave his son alone with Tommy. Is that not true either? Yes, it is because that was also documented.
Sam the more I think about it. The more I wonder what gives you the right to make statements for my mother? Unless you are Brad. If not you have NO business even bringing her in it. Quit using my mother to attack me you coward. That is sick, but not suprising you would stoop that low.
:huh: :scratch:
Lay off the confused act. You know exactly what he's saying.
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"Pat Williams" (lol) Are you that dense that you can't comprehend? If you are in the "loop" as much as claim, you should understand completeltely understand.
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Ok, so I would like to welcome all the new people. LOL!!! Enjoy!
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BTW, if anyone is a "habitual liar" it would be Tommy Shelton. Someone who has lied over 30 years about their inappropriate relationships with young boys.
Thanks princessDi!
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BTW, if anyone is a "habitual liar" it would be Tommy Shelton. Someone who has lied over 30 years about their inappropriate relationships with young boys.
Thanks princessDi!
:goodpost:
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Yes Pat Williams I said it. I think "Sam" is my brother Brad. If it isn't he/she has no business using my mother to attack me.
I find it funny that even though I am here you still attack me using my mother (not uncommon for cowards though) to attack me. Quit being cowards! If you have something to say by all means spit it out.
As you can tell your fancy language and mind games have no baring on me.
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Entire post deleted due to inappropriate content.
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You just proved yourself to be a liar.
Alex has never came on here and said that his mother was going to testify on his behalf, actually it's quite the opposite. Lie #1.
Brad Walker (Alex’s brother) also stated, "Alex is lying again, I have never talked with any lawyer nor had anything documented from my conversation with Alex"
No, Alex is not lying he did indeed have his conversation documented by a local attorney. Brad called him four days after Tommy was arrested. Alex waited until Brad left a voice meassage, then went up to his local attorney and had it put on speaker phone. That conversation was documented!
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That's funny because Alex hardly has ANY contact with his family. He may see them two or three times a year. The only ones he communicates with his parents and grandma. Again, another lie.
Of course Alex's mother was going to testify against him. I have talked to one family member myself (not Alex) who told me that his mother was told that Brad and Valerie had talked about moving. Alex's mother was afraid if she did not testify Brad and Valerie would move to Mississippi along with Tommy and Carol. Again, Alex never said his mother was going to testify against him. You are a liar. It was clearly stated just because a witness is called for the defense does not mean they would not help the prosecution!!!
I would like to see your proof, to your nasty allegations, if you can't prove them then shut up.
Edited only to remove responses to inappropriate content.
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One thing you're forgetting. Tommy has already pleaded guilty. He has admitted that he is a child molestor. What part of that don't you comprehend?
Entire post deleted due to inappropriate content.
Edited only to remove inappropriate content from quoted post.
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Appears someone needs to learn how to read or quit fabricating the truth.
Posted by Johann:
90 Issues & Concerns Category / 3ABN / Re: Tom Pavlinic's cases on: June 13, 2010, 06:30:32 AM
It is interesting that Tom Pavlinic has subpoenaed the victim's mother to testify.
It appears as if the prosecution welcomes this move since it is expected to backfire on Tommy Shelton.
It also appears that the prosecution will welcome the appearance of other relatives who seem willing to testify.vIt might become an interesting case.
Posted by me: The prosecutor was not at all worried about losing as no they did not have many witness, but they felt that the defense was calling people who would be beneficial to them. So why should they waste their money, when Tommy was bringing them anyway? Just because they are subpoenaed by the defense does not mean they would not help the prosecution!!!!
Never once has Alex told me that his mother was going to testify on his behalf. Never has that even been mentioned. So, you again are a liar!
Alex's mother has never once stated that she did not believe him either. Again, you are a liar. She has said continuously "that she was not there."
I also find it odd that YOU people are the ones who brough her in the middle of it. Knowing full well that Alex's dad has many physical conditions. Now, his mother is also having test run on her to see if she has severe medical problems, too. You people are the ones who brough Alex's mother into this. So, don't try to turn the tables. It shows you will stoop to any level to get what you want.
So quit trying to cause family turmoil, there is enough without you adding your two cents.
Again, prove your nasty allegations, or shut up!
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Anyone know what the employees at 3ABN thought about Tommy pleading guilty on Monday? How did the 3ABN administration break the sad news to all the workers?
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Why would 3-ABN take any formal notice of TS's plea?
I would immagine that 3-ABN would believe that his plea was personally related to Danny Shelton and family members and not related to 3-ABN.
Why? Did not TS plead guilty to charges not related in any way to 3-ABN?
NOTE: I am just speculating as to how 3-ABN might have reacted. Who knows, only someone associated with 3-ABN. I am just thinking out loud.
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Alex,
What you are enduring is nothing new, it is classic. A cursory study of cults and the behaviours of cult members will show that this is just what they do. As one reads the histories of the Jim Jones and David Koresh cults, you see precisely the same thing that is happening with you. When a person orpersons represents a threat to the cult or its leader, one of the first thngs they will do is try to divide that person from their family and friends. They also thry to use division of family as a means of proving to the public that this person is an untrustworthy individual. You may recall that Jones forced some of his followers to cede custody of their children to him as a payment for letting them leave the cult. when they left, and said anything negative, he said, "Look, they gave me custody of their children. If things were as bad as they say, would they do that? Obviously they are messed up."
These cult followers are trying to do the same thing to you and your family. They are no different than Jim Jones or David Koresh and the followers who did the same thing that these people are trying to do to you. Honestly, in this case, I think that the followers have gone far beyond the person they think they are following. I really don't think that Danny is anything near as unbalanced as these people are. In many ways Danny has shown himself to be a far more balanced and respectable person than that. I sometimes think that he is being badly misrepresented by some of these weird cult people posting here.
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Why would 3-ABN take any formal notice of TS's plea?
I would immagine that 3-ABN would believe that his plea was personally related to Danny Shelton and family members and not related to 3-ABN.
Why? Did not TS plead guilty to charges not related in any way to 3-ABN?
NOTE: I am just speculating as to how 3-ABN might have reacted. Who knows, only someone associated with 3-ABN. I am just thinking out loud.
Let's imagine that Bill Gates of Microsoft has a brother named Dave who also works at Microsoft where he is in charge of Programming. While he works at Microsoft he is accused of being a sexual deviant: adultery, sodomy, pedophilia, gay sex etc. He then leaves his employment and is later convicted in a court of law of being a sexual deviant.
Can you imagine the scrambling at the Legal Dept. in Redmond?
-Did Dave use his high position within the company to gain sexual favors from employees, their families, or Microsoft clients?
-Did Dave commit felonies on company property or using company resources?
-Did Dave spread any STD's to company employees affecting their health/productivity to include even long-term hospitalization and/or death?
-Did Dave's blood relationship with the company founder (the world's richest man with connections in law, govt., business, society, et al) enable him to commit these crimes with impunity?
-What is our potential exposure to a PR meltdown which could affect stock price, competitiveness, and future projects?
This is why 3ABN would take formal notice of Tommy's plea.
SDAminister
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Could be. Who knows?
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You just proved yourself to be a liar.
Alex has never came on here and said that his mother was going to testify on his behalf, actually it's quite the opposite. Lie #1.
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You all implied and said that even though the defense was calling her to testify against Alex that this would work to help Alex, and you are continuing to claim that the prosecutor would use the witnesses against Alex to help him. That I believe, is impossible considering their testimony,and the fact that those there from his family don't believe him. Your claims appear to be no more than wishful thinking or misplaced trust, regardless you are promoting false witness (a lie).
See the deal was that the first thing which was posted in rebuttal to your ( as in Johann, alex, and you etc) claims was that a mother would not testify against a son unless she knew he was lying, so alex, decided to challenge posters here to contact his family. In fact, I'm sure he actually said to pm him about how to do so,
That ended up backfiring on him when some of us did just that. Deal with it.
I would like to see your proof, to your nasty allegations, if you can't prove them then shut up.
That's rather rude. This forum, and you, apparently don't want to hear the response from Alex's family, or to have that made known, but that doesn't change anything, Adam.
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ADMIN HAT ON
Edited to remove inappropriate content. Note that this forum will not be used by the dannyclones to attack, accuse and try to discredit those here who have already been victimized. I'm sure Jamie Smith has imaginary telephone records to back up her allegations as well...
ADMIN HAT OFF
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Let's imagine you crossed a Pharisee with Barney Fife, and a Inquisitor with George Jefferson, and then bred those two together.. what would we get? Let's imagine he called himself "sdaminister" and mostly posted during the Sabbath hours.. Would we still recognize, "Bob Pickle"?
Why would 3-ABN take any formal notice of TS's plea?
I would immagine that 3-ABN would believe that his plea was personally related to Danny Shelton and family members and not related to 3-ABN.
Why? Did not TS plead guilty to charges not related in any way to 3-ABN?
NOTE: I am just speculating as to how 3-ABN might have reacted. Who knows, only someone associated with 3-ABN. I am just thinking out loud.
Let's imagine that Bill Gates of Microsoft has a brother named Dave who also works at Microsoft where he is in charge of Programming. While he works at Microsoft he is accused of being a sexual deviant: adultery, sodomy, pedophilia, gay sex etc. He then leaves his employment and is later convicted in a court of law of being a sexual deviant.
Can you imagine the scrambling at the Legal Dept. in Redmond?
-Did Dave use his high position within the company to gain sexual favors from employees, their families, or Microsoft clients?
-Did Dave commit felonies on company property or using company resources?
-Did Dave spread any STD's to company employees affecting their health/productivity to include even long-term hospitalization and/or death?
-Did Dave's blood relationship with the company founder (the world's richest man with connections in law, govt., business, society, et al) enable him to commit these crimes with impunity?
-What is our potential exposure to a PR meltdown which could affect stock price, competitiveness, and future projects?
This is why 3ABN would take formal notice of Tommy's plea.
SDAminister
The problem with all the what ifs, here is that they samck of desperation. Our Ecclesiastical Investigators, Pickle and Joy, looked high and low, and diligently questioned all, but could find nothing worth reporting, not even by their standards...
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No matter how much you attack Alex, Tommy still plead guilty.
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Jamie.bomber, Well, well, what great explosive mouth we got here? A barnyard :horse: bully kicking his heels high in every direction like he ate loco weed . :ROFL: :ROFL: to bad the :horse: can't tell the difference in loco weed or wild cherries leaves. Kills em everytime.
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No matter how much you attack Alex, Tommy still plead guilty.
Yes, he did Duane! I acknowledge that. I admit you are right! Tommy plead guilty. Is that good? Does that make you feel better? I am not even trying to deny it, ok?
BUT, all of that isn't a "trump card", my post weren't about Tommy's plea. which I disagree with btw, (but it was also not my choice... so I have to move past it.) You should try that and try and deal with what's said also, instead of trying to say replies here are about something other than what they are about. Just an idea... which you are free to ignore. :)
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Alex,
What you are enduring is nothing new, it is classic. A cursory study of cults and the behaviours of cult members will show that this is just what they do. As one reads the histories of the Jim Jones and David Koresh cults, you see precisely the same thing that is happening with you. When a person orpersons represents a threat to the cult or its leader, one of the first thngs they will do is try to divide that person from their family and friends. They also thry to use division of family as a means of proving to the public that this person is an untrustworthy individual. You may recall that Jones forced some of his followers to cede custody of their children to him as a payment for letting them leave the cult. when they left, and said anything negative, he said, "Look, they gave me custody of their children. If things were as bad as they say, would they do that? Obviously they are messed up."
These cult followers are trying to do the same thing to you and your family. They are no different than Jim Jones or David Koresh and the followers who did the same thing that these people are trying to do to you. Honestly, in this case, I think that the followers have gone far beyond the person they think they are following. I really don't think that Danny is anything near as unbalanced as these people are. In many ways Danny has shown himself to be a far more balanced and respectable person than that. I sometimes think that he is being badly misrepresented by some of these weird cult people posting here.
They are just being good cult people... :console:
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You just proved yourself to be a liar.
Alex has never came on here and said that his mother was going to testify on his behalf, actually it's quite the opposite. Lie #1.
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You all implied and said that even though the defense was calling her to testify against Alex that this would work to help Alex, and you are continuing to claim that the prosecutor would use the witnesses against Alex to help him. That I believe, is impossible considering their testimony,and the fact that those there from his family don't believe him. Your claims appear to be no more than wishful thinking or misplaced trust, regardless you are promoting false witness (a lie).That's funny, because Alex's mother states that YOU have not contacted her. Trust me all of this is going to be mailed to her, so she can decide how to handle it.
See the deal was that the first thing which was posted in rebuttal to your ( as in Johann, alex, and you etc) claims was that a mother would not testify against a son unless she knew he was lying, so alex, decided to challenge posters here to contact his family. In fact, I'm sure he actually said to pm him about how to do so,But did you contact Alex's mother, no you didn't.
That ended up backfiring on him when some of us did just that. Deal with it.How did that backfire, when your only contact has been Brad. Did you know that Brad was willing to put away his own flesh and blood, when accusations was made against one of his own brothers? He flew out from D.C. to have him institutionalized. But when it comes to his father in law- he is adamantly in his defense. Not to mention Brad's own affair with an (unamed) 3ABN employee. Seems to me that cheating on spouces runs thick in the Shelton air!!!!
I would like to see your proof, to your nasty allegations, if you can't prove them then shut up.
That's rather rude. This forum, and you, apparently don't want to hear the response from Alex's family, or to have that made known, but that doesn't change anything, Adam. Do you know what is rude, the fact that you are using Alex's ailing parents to attack him. WITHOUT their consent, BTW.
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Yeah, getting your information from "Sam" cough Brad. Yeah, That's really fair and balanced.
Edited only to remove responses to inappropriate content.
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Let not your heart be troubled, Adam. Consider this to be a classroom called "Understanding Cult Followers 101." Rather than just reading theoretical material, you are priviledged to see some real live specimens and observe their behaviours. You are acquiring a practical understanding of them.
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That ended up backfiring on him when some of us did just that. Deal with it.How did that backfire, when your only contact has been Brad. Did you know that Brad was willing to put away his own flesh and blood, when accusations was made against one of his own brothers? He flew out from D.C. to have him institutionalized. But when it comes to his father in law- he is adamantly in his defense. Not to mention Brad's own affair with an (unamed) 3ABN employee. Seems to me that cheating on spouces runs thick in the Shelton air!!!!
Did his mistress' first name begin with "T"?
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Yes, in fact it did.
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Yes, in fact it did.
I believe I heard about that situation when I was there. Seems to me she was the impetus for 3ABN disallowing mixed gender travel on road trips...
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No matter how much you attack Alex, Tommy still plead guilty.
Yes, he did Duane! I acknowledge that. I admit you are right! Tommy plead guilty. Is that good? Does that make you feel better? I am not even trying to deny it, ok?
BUT, all of that isn't a "trump card", my post weren't about Tommy's plea. which I disagree with btw, (but it was also not my choice... so I have to move past it.) You should try that and try and deal with what's said also, instead of trying to say replies here are about something other than what they are about. Just an idea... which you are free to ignore. :)
This isn't about me feeling better or even being right. My point is that it's over, so why are you people still attacking a victim?
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Adam, in order for a cult to develop there have to be a number of factors present, but it starts with just two factors that are each in themselves incredibly complex compounds: a leader, and followers. They develop and subsist off a mutually symbiotic relationship. Together they form a fascinating new compound that we refer to as "the cult." What makes this grouping so different and fascinating is that it is based entirely upon a system of mental/behavioural disorders that inter-relate to form an uneasy structure that sustains and grows each of the various disorders. If you ever go into the arena of behavioural health, the specimens you observe here could provide you valuable lab experience in a case study upon which you could build your dissertation. It is not often that one gets to interact with, and observe so closely the behaviours and traits of the specimens in a study on cults. And one seldom finds such a cornucopia of varied, yet inter-related disorders.
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You're right, they aren't worth anyones time or effort!
I will say this though.... Documentation WILL show that Brad Walker indeed did call Alex Walker, and appologize to him. Brad further stated that he felt guilty about what happened to Alex, that he felt like he was to blame because Alex was left in his care.
It will also show that Brad said "I have never left my son alone with Tommy, nor would I ever."
Who would say such a thing if in fact Brad truely believes his father-in-law is innocent !!!
Try Getting out of that Brad!!
Now, Brad seems to have forgotten that conversation maybe because Brad is married to a shelton (when hes not with a mistress.) and it IS a Shelton who signs his paycheck!! Go figure.....
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If one is studying entomology, they will get bitten by the occassional specimen in the spider cage. The scholar doesn't take it personal, its just the study subject engaging in its natural behaviours. Again, turn it into a study and. You will be surprised at how interesting these participants become. You will find yourself flowcharting their patterns and finding predictable traits that allow you to forsee behaviours before they are exhibited.
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If one is studying entomology, they will get bitten by the occassional specimen in the spider cage. The scholar doesn't take it personal, its just the study subject engaging in its natural behaviours. Again, turn it into a study and. You will be surprised at how interesting these participants become. You will find yourself flowcharting their patterns and finding predictable traits that allow you to forsee behaviours before they are exhibited.
Such as the sharing of sexual partners or inbreeding?
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Yes, in fact it did.
I believe I heard about that situation when I was there. Seems to me she was the impetus for 3ABN disallowing mixed gender travel on road trips...
You really heard about it when you were there? That would be a bit weird.
So Linda gets axed and divorced because she talked too long on the telephone to a physician in a foreign country when Walt Thompson told her not to, but staff at 3ABN talk about Brad having an affair with "T" and neither Brad nor "T" get fired?
Sounds like when I got an email from an irate woman who was irate that another "T" had had an affair with her husband, that "T"'s own first cousin. When I tried to confirm the story with someone who worked at 3ABN at the time of the alleged incident, he/she knew exactly who I was talking about and said, "You could tell there was something going on between those two." To date I have yet to hear that either Shelton got in trouble for their alleged incestuous affair.
But back to Brad and his apparent attempts to tamper with a witness, his own moral difficulties, his apparent defense of pedophile Tommy Shelton, has anyone bothered to ask Brad if Tommy ever molested him in his younger years?
I'm not saying that Brad is a victim, because Tommy certainly didn't victimize every last boy around Ezra. (One I talked with said he knew Tommy was grooming him but it never went further than that.) I'm only asking whether anyone has ever asked Brad if he was ever victimized himself. If not, was he ever groomed?
A follow-up question if Brad says no could be, what would happen to your job if you said yes?
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Prosecutors accept pleas all the time to "clear the docket". It is unfortunate that the judicial process now boils down to finding ways to "clear the docket", but it is a way of life in a very busy criminal court system. And for the record, less than 5% of cases indicted actually go to trial. The vast majority are negotiated away before noon time on the day of charge in exchange for a fee known as fines and a lesser plea that limits the impact or accountability of the perpetrator.
However, lets discuss this "civil suit" that SAM is so quick to dismiss!!!! Let me make you aware that early in the investigation on Dun Loring, we encountered the insurer of the Dun Loring Church of God and I recall that it is the insurer for the Church of God - Anderson synod. The implications should be clear given Anderson's prior actions in Southern Illinois. Let it suffice to say, the insurer is aware of the liability and has already reserved for the potential loss. It will be big and it will be shared with other defenders. Just how these defendants relate to 3ABN and its directorate remains to be seen...after all, 3ABN and its directors clearly had plenty of opportunity to address this issue at least on two occasions and failed to do so...and directors and officers at 3ABN do have substantial assets. Much to SAM's chagrin, a connecton can be made legally, particularly in the process of attempting to subvert the prosecution of this case by several 3ABN players!!! Yes, SAM, we have been watching!!! And collecting information!!! And passing it on...can you imagine that???
I must assume 3ABN also have liability coverage, if for nothing more than directors and officers legal liability. If not, then there could be a bunch of new legal fess to deal with.
In any event, SAM, your efforts to pooh-pooh the potential for recovery are, as usual, ludicrous and you should find a new career!!!! Your analysis is not worthy of much more than a waste of reading time...and so riddled with blatant errors it borders on the felonious!!! A light weight way of putting it is "FACTUALLY CHALLENGED" and should we give it honors...SUMMA CUM LOUDER!!! But then, ignorance is known to be Bliss.
SAM, Keep your head in the sand so we can kick you in the derriere!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
I believe you are confused or have been mislead. This isn't about sentencing. The judge will decide if he wants to accept the plea bargain or move for trial. Should he decide to accept the plea bargain, then he may or may not proceed to sentencing. So much has been made of the guilty plea which is ludicrous considering that 80% of all cases end in a plea bargain with one condition being, that the accused plead guilty. Many prosecutors will not even offer a plea bargain unless the accused pleads guilty. It is a technicality of the law, not an admission of guilt. There are innocent people all over this country who have pled guilty to crimes they didn't commit because of their circumstances. IMO TS had many reasons to go along with that plea. He and his wife sold their Kentucky home to pay for a defense. They are tapped out financially and therefore cannot pay for 2 long drawn out trials. Some may say they could have gotten a loan but how do you do that when you are both only drawing social security? 2 other big factors are his age and his health situation, not to mention having to stay somewhere or with someone in Va all of these months.
All the talk about civil suits (which are always about money) are pipe dreams with the Sheltons financial situation. As the old saying goes "you can't get blood out of a turnip". Translated that means you can't get money where there is none. Not too many attorney's are going to take a case where you go after someone that has already been wiped out financially.
Let us use some common sense here. The prosecutor would never have offered a plea with no jail time if she had confidence in her cases. Here you have 2 cases that are at least, 15 years old. You have no witnesses.
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The plea bargain speaks for itself as Prosecutors don't offer pleas with no jail time in these types of cases unless they are fairly certain they can't win. Again, the technicality of a guilty plea means nothing.
As far as GM's comments about the judge looking into TS's background, that is another technicality that means they check to see if he has any prior criminal record. In actuality that should take about 2 minutes on the computer. In the court system it takes 2 months.
Edited to remove inappropriate content.
[/quote]
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Gailon, does it sound to you like "Sam" might have a personal financial interest in a possible civil suit? He/she certainly seems to be interested in downplaying it.
Prosecutors accept pleas all the time to "clear the docket". It is unfortunate that the judicial process now boils down to finding ways to "clear the docket", but it is a way of life in a very busy criminal court system. And for the record, less than 5% of cases indicted actually go to trial. The vast majority are negotiated away before noon time on the day of charge in exchange for a fee known as fines and a lesser plea that limits the impact or accountability of the perpetrator.
However, lets discuss this "civil suit" that SAM is so quick to dismiss!!!! Let me make you aware that early in the investigation on Dun Loring, we encountered the insurer of the Dun Loring Church of God and I recall that it is the insurer for the Church of God - Anderson synod. The implications should be clear given Anderson's prior actions in Southern Illinois. Let it suffice to say, the insurer is aware of the liability and has already reserved for the potential loss. It will be big and it will be shared with other defenders. Just how these defendants relate to 3ABN and its directorate remains to be seen...after all, 3ABN and its directors clearly had plenty of opportunity to address this issue at least on two occasions and failed to do so...and directors and officers at 3ABN do have substantial assets. Much to SAM's chagrin, a connecton can be made legally, particularly in the process of attempting to subvert the prosecution of this case by several 3ABN players!!! Yes, SAM, we have been watching!!! And collecting information!!! And passing it on...can you imagine that???
I must assume 3ABN also have liability coverage, if for nothing more than directors and officers legal liability. If not, then there could be a bunch of new legal fess to deal with.
In any event, SAM, your efforts to pooh-pooh the potential for recovery are, as usual, ludicrous and you should find a new career!!!! Your analysis is not worthy of much more than a waste of reading time...and so riddled with blatant errors it borders on the felonious!!! A light weight way of putting it is "FACTUALLY CHALLENGED" and should we give it honors...SUMMA CUM LOUDER!!! But then, ignorance is known to be Bliss.
SAM, Keep your head in the sand so we can kick you in the derriere!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
I believe you are confused or have been mislead. This isn't about sentencing. The judge will decide if he wants to accept the plea bargain or move for trial. Should he decide to accept the plea bargain, then he may or may not proceed to sentencing. So much has been made of the guilty plea which is ludicrous considering that 80% of all cases end in a plea bargain with one condition being, that the accused plead guilty. Many prosecutors will not even offer a plea bargain unless the accused pleads guilty. It is a technicality of the law, not an admission of guilt. There are innocent people all over this country who have pled guilty to crimes they didn't commit because of their circumstances. IMO TS had many reasons to go along with that plea. He and his wife sold their Kentucky home to pay for a defense. They are tapped out financially and therefore cannot pay for 2 long drawn out trials. Some may say they could have gotten a loan but how do you do that when you are both only drawing social security? 2 other big factors are his age and his health situation, not to mention having to stay somewhere or with someone in Va all of these months.
All the talk about civil suits (which are always about money) are pipe dreams with the Sheltons financial situation. As the old saying goes "you can't get blood out of a turnip". Translated that means you can't get money where there is none. Not too many attorney's are going to take a case where you go after someone that has already been wiped out financially.
Let us use some common sense here. The prosecutor would never have offered a plea with no jail time if she had confidence in her cases. Here you have 2 cases that are at least, 15 years old. You have no witnesses.
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The plea bargain speaks for itself as Prosecutors don't offer pleas with no jail time in these types of cases unless they are fairly certain they can't win. Again, the technicality of a guilty plea means nothing.
As far as GM's comments about the judge looking into TS's background, that is another technicality that means they check to see if he has any prior criminal record. In actuality that should take about 2 minutes on the computer. In the court system it takes 2 months.
Edited to remove inappropriate content.
[/quote]
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Here is link to see what other sex offenders are pulling for time and just think of the mug shot of TS joining in these spots. I believe there is just too much observance of what comes out of courts for sex offenders. The judge knows what he well be doing I think. If he doesn't his neck will probably be on the line thru the media. That is why you have seen Bill O on fox go after the judges when these offenders don't give the time of "change of clothes" for these sickos.
http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/sex-offender/
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Adam, Alex told people to call his mom. He told me how to. I never called her, but it is not true that nobody talked to her. I know two people who did and that is why I never had to call. I think it is fair to say you did not talk to her though because of what you are writing. I hope I can say that here because it is what I know now. I was feeling bad about all the things I heard and trying to figure out if I should write anything here. It is sad when people lie and it is sad what people do. I feel bad also that Alex said to find out and that that people can't say what they heard now. I don't know all about Tommy Shelton or the victims, but I do know something is wrong when people don't allow people to answer or start attacking them when they do. That is the thing that makes me believe those people are maybe the ones lying because they don't want to hear anything but what they say. Just because people don't want to hear about what another person believes doesn't mean people should answer them by making accusations about them. I think that is wrong no matter who does it. Jesus didn't do that. He answered what was being said by the bad people. He never acted like them when they were mean to him and said bad or mean things about him, but he always did tell them and everybody the truth even if they didn't like it and thought it was mean. You were nice to me before but I don't think you are being nice to other people in your posts and it makes me feel bad. I am sorry to say this but I have to because I don't think people are acting right. Even when we are right we have to say it nicely. :console:
You just proved yourself to be a liar.
Alex has never came on here and said that his mother was going to testify on his behalf, actually it's quite the opposite. Lie #1.
Brad Walker (Alex’s brother) also stated, "Alex is lying again, I have never talked with any lawyer nor had anything documented from my conversation with Alex"
No, Alex is not lying he did indeed have his conversation documented by a local attorney. Brad called him four days after Tommy was arrested. Alex waited until Brad left a voice meassage, then went up to his local attorney and had it put on speaker phone. That conversation was documented!
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That's funny because Alex hardly has ANY contact with his family. He may see them two or three times a year. The only ones he communicates with his parents and grandma. Again, another lie.
Of course Alex's mother was going to testify against him. I have talked to one family member myself (not Alex) who told me that his mother was told that Brad and Valerie had talked about moving. Alex's mother was afraid if she did not testify Brad and Valerie would move to Mississippi along with Tommy and Carol. Again, Alex never said his mother was going to testify against him. You are a liar. It was clearly stated just because a witness is called for the defense does not mean they would not help the prosecution!!!
I would like to see your proof, to your nasty allegations, if you can't prove them then shut up.
Edited only to remove responses to inappropriate content.
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This was sent to me. I can't find where it is posted here. I think it might be somewhere else because it's talking about this forum.. It is good though, to be reminded of this no matter what you believe about all of this. No matter whos side we are on, because we all need to be on Jesus' side. If we follow Jesus, we need to show people that by acting like Jesus. I think we can all know that this is the right thing to do, and to try and remember even when we get mad, or don't like what somebody else says or does. That is really the most important time to remember this, and to ask Jesus to help us because that is the time it is easiest to forget and say things without thinking or praying about it first. :)
"
"By their fruits you will know them"
Sun Jul 25, 2010
There has been much said about the character of 3ABN's attackers, and we know that the only thing we take from this earth to heaven is, our character. We also know that God requires that that character be a reflection of Him and we know that "God is love."
In the New Testament Christ explained the Ten Commandments in the simplest terms: The first part gives us a definition of the visual expression of our love for God. The second part gives us a definition of the visual expression of our love for our fellow man. Christ said, the law is explained simply, Love God with all your heart, love your fellow man exactly the way you desire to be loved. The latter of those admonitions can only be accomplished if we truly love the maker and His Father the way the former admonition defines.
The way we treat others tells the world what we think of God. There have been actions on both sides of this ledger that have shown the world that even those who profess to be followers of God, are filled with the spirit of sin - selfishness. This post, is one (if not, the) most egregious example of this behavior.
Robert Jude Pickle posting at AdventTalk wrote:
I suggest that Duane, Roger, Greg, Alex, Brad, and the rest take the press release at face value and contact Samantha and offer to share their testimonies. Whether or not there is time in the program to share their testimonies, they certainly could mingle with the folks who came and talk with them. If news reporters show up, they could talk with them.
It probably isn't too late to get T-shirts made up for the occasion. You guys would know better than me what to put on them if such an idea is appropriate. ("I Survived Pastoral Abuse" on one side, and Tommy's mug shot behind bars on the other?)
RJP has justified his actions over time by claiming he is "called by God" to publicly expose the sins of his brothers in the Christian faith. He has defended his actions in such a way that he ranks sin on his own, self-designed scale of "wrongness." His sins are not as egregious as others or they justify his claim that he is "exposing sin." But, we know that Christ said, if you want to know how much a Christian loves their God you will see it in two ways: How they love God and How they love their fellow human beings. There are no qualifications, in either category. God doesn't say, "Only love those that are as good or better than you are." In the New Testament it is defined even more clearly, "Even as you have done it unto the least of these, you have done it unto Me."
If Christ stands in our steed in the courts of heaven and God sees only His atoning blood when He looks at each one of us, how can we do any less? In the post above by RJP, has he remembered his own fallen, sinful nature and remembered that he is unworthy to stand in his own defense in the heavenly court when he treats a Christian brother this way? Does RJP have a hidden desire to stand "pro-se" before the God of the Universe? It doesn't matter if Tommy Shelton is guilty as accused, not for one second. Any sin Tommy has committed is no different than any sin Robert Jude Pickle has committed. Sin is selfishness, every single iteration of sin is an act of selfishness and none is worse than any other.
It is clear that the personal degradation that RJP suggests be heaped on Tommy is contrary to the Biblical principle of, "Love God paramount, and love each other exactly as you desire to be loved." Does RJP want the Heavenly Father to love him the way he is loving Tommy? Or the way he is loving Danny, or even Linda, who he claims to defend? Is that the type of love that we experience from our Creator? Would you continue to be a Christian if you thought, for one minute, that God treated people the way RJP treats people? Would you want to align yourself with a God who "loved" you the way RJP is loving his fellow man?
I know what his argument would be, that he exposing sin, he is defending the name of God. Is he? Is this the God you read about in Scripture? In the 8th chapter of John we see how Christ would answer those questions. A women whose sins others had deemed "worse" than their own had been accosted, manhandled, and forced to stand before Christ. Proudly the Pharisees announced her sins before all the onlookers and Jesus. Their desire was not to help restore this woman the image of her Maker - it was to trap Christ and embarrass Him. It was a blatant attempt to cast the Savior as malcontent, as a liar, as a fraud. It was an act of selfishness on the part of those professed faithful believers in God. They wanted blood, the woman's blood, because in it they would be able to justify their own transgressions and the way in which they had misled the faithful. They would also claim the woman's blood was on Jesus' hands; and that His acknowledgment gave them the right to continue to lead the faithful astray.
Jesus, silently, bent down and wrote in the sand. One can argue that the Scriptures don't tell us what was written in the sand - but the reality of the situation is obvious when He stands up and says, "The sinless one among you, go first: Throw the stone." (The Message Bible). The above direct quote from RJP indicates that he would have wound up and delivered his stone. Is that the Christianity you want to espouse? Not me. I am glad that my Savior loves sinners and will stand with them hand-in-hand as they struggle to step out of their sinful nature and be remade in His image. The truth is, I don't love RJP the way I should. I find his methods disgusting and vile. I find his hatred of other people to violate everything I read in scripture . . . and in the end, I get on my knees and ask the One Being who knows how to love someone like that to help me love them the same way.
Duane, Roger, Greg, Alex, I ask you, "Is this the type of Christianity, the RJP type, the one you want to espouse?" Or, do you want to exhibit the same love the Savior did when he told the woman accused, "Woman, where are they? Does no one condemn you? [ ] Neither do I. Go your way. From now on, don't sin." Maybe the Christ at the well would be a better example than the incitation from RJP? Jesus did not expose the woman's sins to anyone, in front of anyone, did not embarrass her, did not seek to ridicule or marginalize her. Instead he filled her life with purpose and meaning. Jesus left her knowing that, even though her life had not been a mirror of the Savior - it could be, if she walked with Him. Do you see yourselves better than Tommy? If you followed the suggestions of RJP you would be placing yourself in the shoes of the Deceiver, who seeks to present us to the world and God as worthless, undeserving of God's love. Do you want that role or do you want to share the love that God graciously affords you, the grace that God provides you - though you don't deserve it?"
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Harley,
What do you think about the above post attacking me for what I wrote?
In the post above by RJP, has he remembered his own fallen, sinful nature and remembered that he is unworthy to stand in his own defense in the heavenly court when he treats a Christian brother this way?
I think this borders on the blasphemous. Shall we also call Charles Manson a Christian brother? Adolph Hitler? Stalin? Pol Pot?
How in the world can anyone call a sexual predator, an admitted pedophile, someone who preyed on children and young adults for decades, a Christian brother? The apostle Paul is crystal clear: "Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person." If Tommy is still a member of a church somewhere, it is because that church refused to do its duty and obey Paul's instruction.
Any sin Tommy has committed is no different than any sin Robert Jude Pickle has committed.
The person who wrote this is sick. Sexual preying upon children is no different than any sin I have committed? John is quite clear that all sins are not the same. (1 Jn. 5:16, 17).
Another question is why is this anonymous person calling me by a name I have not used anywhere here or on BlackSDA or on Maritime?
But note that the press release in question stated that there were going to be testimonies from survivors of pastoral abuse. That being so, it is only appropriate that Tommy Shelton's victims be invited and encouraged to participate. Otherwise, the entire event is but a farce. That is the context of my comments.
What exactly was the poster objecting to? The idea of Tommy's mug shot behind bars? If so, what was wrong with that? If Tommy's victims are not allowed to speak, their shirts can speak instead of their voices.
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Adam, Alex told people to call his mom. He told me how to. I never called her, but it is not true that nobody talked to her. I know two people who did and that is why I never had to call. I think it is fair to say you did not talk to her though because of what you are writing. I hope I can say that here because it is what I know now. I was feeling bad about all the things I heard and trying to figure out if I should write anything here. It is sad when people lie and it is sad what people do. I feel bad also that Alex said to find out and that that people can't say what they heard now. I don't know all about Tommy Shelton or the victims, but I do know something is wrong when people don't allow people to answer or start attacking them when they do. That is the thing that makes me believe those people are maybe the ones lying because they don't want to hear anything but what they say. Just because people don't want to hear about what another person believes doesn't mean people should answer them by making accusations about them. I think that is wrong no matter who does it. Jesus didn't do that. He answered what was being said by the bad people. He never acted like them when they were mean to him and said bad or mean things about him, but he always did tell them and everybody the truth even if they didn't like it and thought it was mean. You were nice to me before but I don't think you are being nice to other people in your posts and it makes me feel bad. I am sorry to say this but I have to because I don't think people are acting right. Even when we are right we have to say it nicely. :console:
You just proved yourself to be a liar.
Alex has never came on here and said that his mother was going to testify on his behalf, actually it's quite the opposite. Lie #1.
Brad Walker (Alex’s brother) also stated, "Alex is lying again, I have never talked with any lawyer nor had anything documented from my conversation with Alex"
No, Alex is not lying he did indeed have his conversation documented by a local attorney. Brad called him four days after Tommy was arrested. Alex waited until Brad left a voice meassage, then went up to his local attorney and had it put on speaker phone. That conversation was documented!
***********************.
That's funny because Alex hardly has ANY contact with his family. He may see them two or three times a year. The only ones he communicates with his parents and grandma. Again, another lie.
Of course Alex's mother was going to testify against him. I have talked to one family member myself (not Alex) who told me that his mother was told that Brad and Valerie had talked about moving. Alex's mother was afraid if she did not testify Brad and Valerie would move to Mississippi along with Tommy and Carol. Again, Alex never said his mother was going to testify against him. You are a liar. It was clearly stated just because a witness is called for the defense does not mean they would not help the prosecution!!!
I would like to see your proof, to your nasty allegations, if you can't prove them then shut up.
Edited only to remove responses to inappropriate content.
It in fact is true that NOONE called my mother, Harley. I talked to her just yesterday and she said that NOONE had called her. The only two people she had talked to about this situation was my grandma and one of my sisters. SO NO she was not contacted.
You can try to play me out as a liar, but I will not sit here and let you make my mother into a liar. Sorry- but when she tells me she has not been contacted, I believe her. ALSO she has not even been home that much....and it's kind of funny that most of the time when I try to call her she don't answer. BUT you are telling me she will answer for you?
Please.
Also Harley I gave you her information so you can call her. So why don't you? Don't take other peoples word for it. If you really want the truth you will do your own research.
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Harley,
Yours seems to be just the right Christian attitude. It shows me you love the Lord and want to do His will, and you would like to be His servant and give a helping hand in solving this great problem you have just encountered.
This is just what I wanted to do as this problem struck me in my face about 6 years ago. I pleaded with Danny Shelton. I pleaded with Walt Thompson. I tried to get them to look at it just like you would like to do right now. Yes, I talked with Linda, but that was no problem at all, being such a sweet Christian herself, and she was willing to do almost anything to save her marriage, to restore the whole situation.
You may have discovered that the real problem started when a demon appeared to Brenda Walsh at night, and she followed the prodding of that demon.
At that time I asked Walt Thompson if he really wanted the demon to guide them through the crisis, and his reply was that if the demon would help them they would let him. I could not believe that this would ever come from a Christian Seventh-day Adventist ministry, but is seems like they made their choice.
You mentioned the case with Jesus and Mary, but Mary never said she'd take whatever help she could get from Jesus if she could also let the demon help her.
3ABN has never said they'll stop getting that help from the demon. If they would, and would dedicate their lives to serve Jesus and the truth a great victory could be gained.
When I see how they are fighting to justify the kind of life Tommy Shelton has lived in stead of following in the footsteps of Jesus in asking forgiveness for what has been done, except in some rare cases where it seems like he has been cornered - then I see no spirit of Jesus Christ prevailing in their hearts.
We all have skeletons in our closets, and we have to let the Holy Spirit do the cleansing.
At a meeting I had with some of the leaders at 3ABN back in 2004 I was asked why I kept supporting Linda. I was given the advise by these people that it would be more expedient for me to leave her alone because I would never get any appreciation for the work I was doing. It is true that I have never received an appreciation from a great amount of people, and some resent it very much. I am not asking for the approval of people. I am only asking what would Jesus do?
Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan. When I have seen Linda being devoured by demons I do not ask the opinion of people - I ask myself what Jesus would have done. Would the Good Samaritan leave the suffering victim bleeding beside the road? Does the Good Samaritan ask the opinion of people and what appreciation he will get for helping the victim he finds?
So, my dear Harley, are you asking us to forget the parable Jesus told us of the Good Samaritan and leave the bleeding sufferers behind, just because the devourers call themselves members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and demand recognition as proclaimers of the truth?
God forbid.
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Adam, Alex told people to call his mom. He told me how to. I never called her, but it is not true that nobody talked to her. I know two people who did and that is why I never had to call. I think it is fair to say you did not talk to her though because of what you are writing. I hope I can say that here because it is what I know now. I was feeling bad about all the things I heard and trying to figure out if I should write anything here. It is sad when people lie and it is sad what people do. I feel bad also that Alex said to find out and that that people can't say what they heard now. I don't know all about Tommy Shelton or the victims, but I do know something is wrong when people don't allow people to answer or start attacking them when they do. That is the thing that makes me believe those people are maybe the ones lying because they don't want to hear anything but what they say. Just because people don't want to hear about what another person believes doesn't mean people should answer them by making accusations about them. I think that is wrong no matter who does it. Jesus didn't do that. He answered what was being said by the bad people. He never acted like them when they were mean to him and said bad or mean things about him, but he always did tell them and everybody the truth even if they didn't like it and thought it was mean. You were nice to me before but I don't think you are being nice to other people in your posts and it makes me feel bad. I am sorry to say this but I have to because I don't think people are acting right. Even when we are right we have to say it nicely. :console:
You just proved yourself to be a liar.
Alex has never came on here and said that his mother was going to testify on his behalf, actually it's quite the opposite. Lie #1.
Brad Walker (Alex’s brother) also stated, "Alex is lying again, I have never talked with any lawyer nor had anything documented from my conversation with Alex"
No, Alex is not lying he did indeed have his conversation documented by a local attorney. Brad called him four days after Tommy was arrested. Alex waited until Brad left a voice meassage, then went up to his local attorney and had it put on speaker phone. That conversation was documented!
***********************.
That's funny because Alex hardly has ANY contact with his family. He may see them two or three times a year. The only ones he communicates with his parents and grandma. Again, another lie.
Of course Alex's mother was going to testify against him. I have talked to one family member myself (not Alex) who told me that his mother was told that Brad and Valerie had talked about moving. Alex's mother was afraid if she did not testify Brad and Valerie would move to Mississippi along with Tommy and Carol. Again, Alex never said his mother was going to testify against him. You are a liar. It was clearly stated just because a witness is called for the defense does not mean they would not help the prosecution!!!
I would like to see your proof, to your nasty allegations, if you can't prove them then shut up.
Edited only to remove responses to inappropriate content.
It in fact is true that NOONE called my mother, Harley. I talked to her just yesterday and she said that NOONE had called her. The only two people she had talked to about this situation was my grandma and one of my sisters. SO NO she was not contacted.
You can try to play me out as a liar, but I will not sit here and let you make my mother into a liar. Sorry- but when she tells me she has not been contacted, I believe her. ALSO she has not even been home that much....and it's kind of funny that most of the time when I try to call her she don't answer. BUT you are telling me she will answer for you?
Please.
Also Harley I gave you her information so you can call her. So why don't you? Don't take other peoples word for it. If you really want the truth you will do your own research.
Alex, I was not playing you out as a liar. I did not make your mother into a liar. I don't know why you would think that when I didn't even say what I heard. I was trying to speak generically. I am troubled here. Obviously somebody is lying. Right now I do not know who. I do not know if I will call your mom who is ill. I don't know if I should talk to anybody else about it either. I am not sure if I should even have come here. I can only say I will think on this and I will pray about it.
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Harley- I understand completely. I was not at all meaning that you was making me into a liar. I was speaking to all.
I am just troubled that people keep saying they have spoken to my mother when obviously they have not. My mother denies that fully.
I know where the information is coming from and trust me it is not a reliable source. As this person has shown that he is by far fair.
What has been mentioned in previous post about my brother Brad is indeed true. Anyone who will call me shortly after Tommy's arrest and make the comments Brad made is not a good source of information.
While I understand that Brad is put in the middle of this and is trying to protect his marriage and employment does not mean it is right!
Brad did the Christian thing and called and appologized to me even thought it wasn't at all his fault. Now it seems those sentiments are no longer the same and that is troubling.
BTW, I still stand by what I say. If you would like to contact my mother I will be more than happy to point you in the right direction. Also regardless what Jamie.Smith or Sam say there are also family members who stand by my side 100%. I will be more than happy for you to contact them as well.
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Harley,
Yours seems to be just the right Christian attitude. It shows me you love the Lord and want to do His will, and you would like to be His servant and give a helping hand in solving this great problem you have just encountered.
This is just what I wanted to do as this problem struck me in my face about 6 years ago. I pleaded with Danny Shelton. I pleaded with Walt Thompson. I tried to get them to look at it just like you would like to do right now. Yes, I talked with Linda, but that was no problem at all, being such a sweet Christian herself, and she was willing to do almost anything to save her marriage, to restore the whole situation.
You may have discovered that the real problem started when a demon appeared to Brenda Walsh at night, and she followed the prodding of that demon.
At that time I asked Walt Thompson if he really wanted the demon to guide them through the crisis, and his reply was that if the demon would help them they would let him. I could not believe that this would ever come from a Christian Seventh-day Adventist ministry, but is seems like they made their choice.
You mentioned the case with Jesus and Mary, but Mary never said she'd take whatever help she could get from Jesus if she could also let the demon help her.
3ABN has never said they'll stop getting that help from the demon. If they would, and would dedicate their lives to serve Jesus and the truth a great victory could be gained.
When I see how they are fighting to justify the kind of life Tommy Shelton has lived in stead of following in the footsteps of Jesus in asking forgiveness for what has been done, except in some rare cases where it seems like he has been cornered - then I see no spirit of Jesus Christ prevailing in their hearts.
We all have skeletons in our closets, and we have to let the Holy Spirit do the cleansing.
At a meeting I had with some of the leaders at 3ABN back in 2004 I was asked why I kept supporting Linda. I was given the advise by these people that it would be more expedient for me to leave her alone because I would never get any appreciation for the work I was doing. It is true that I have never received an appreciation from a great amount of people, and some resent it very much. I am not asking for the approval of people. I am only asking what would Jesus do?
Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan. When I have seen Linda being devoured by demons I do not ask the opinion of people - I ask myself what Jesus would have done. Would the Good Samaritan leave the suffering victim bleeding beside the road? Does the Good Samaritan ask the opinion of people and what appreciation he will get for helping the victim he finds?
My dear Mr Johann, I wasn't talking about any of this. It is important to you I can see. I am sure you believe you have good reasons for what you did and for what you believe but everybody else thinks they do too. I will just listen for awhile.
So, my dear Harley, are you asking us to forget the parable Jesus told us of the Good Samaritan and leave the bleeding sufferers behind, just because the devourers call themselves members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and demand recognition as proclaimers of the truth?
God forbid.
No, Mr Johann. I was not asking that. I would never ask that. This is a war. So many are fighting and trying to destroy one another. So much is negative. So many are mean. So many fight below the belt. I see both sides of the road covered in bleeding hurting people. I see so many casualties of this war, all hurt and bleeding and needing love and care. Maybe for you only one is laying by the side of the road bleeding and suffering. It is good to help the one, but she is not the only one. I think if you look up. I think if you really look around you you will see the others being beat up and hurt too.
I am going to go back to just reading here once in awhile. Too much here is just negative and critical and doesn't help or heal anybody. That is contagious. We have to make the positive and good grooves in our brains deeper than the negative bad ones because the deepest grooves win and control our minds.
Phl 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord [is] at hand.
Phl 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Phl 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Phl 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.
Phl 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
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Excellent texts, Harley.
Harley,
Yours seems to be just the right Christian attitude. It shows me you love the Lord and want to do His will, and you would like to be His servant and give a helping hand in solving this great problem you have just encountered.
This is just what I wanted to do as this problem struck me in my face about 6 years ago. I pleaded with Danny Shelton. I pleaded with Walt Thompson. I tried to get them to look at it just like you would like to do right now. Yes, I talked with Linda, but that was no problem at all, being such a sweet Christian herself, and she was willing to do almost anything to save her marriage, to restore the whole situation.
You may have discovered that the real problem started when a demon appeared to Brenda Walsh at night, and she followed the prodding of that demon.
At that time I asked Walt Thompson if he really wanted the demon to guide them through the crisis, and his reply was that if the demon would help them they would let him. I could not believe that this would ever come from a Christian Seventh-day Adventist ministry, but is seems like they made their choice.
You mentioned the case with Jesus and Mary, but Mary never said she'd take whatever help she could get from Jesus if she could also let the demon help her.
3ABN has never said they'll stop getting that help from the demon. If they would, and would dedicate their lives to serve Jesus and the truth a great victory could be gained.
When I see how they are fighting to justify the kind of life Tommy Shelton has lived in stead of following in the footsteps of Jesus in asking forgiveness for what has been done, except in some rare cases where it seems like he has been cornered - then I see no spirit of Jesus Christ prevailing in their hearts.
We all have skeletons in our closets, and we have to let the Holy Spirit do the cleansing.
At a meeting I had with some of the leaders at 3ABN back in 2004 I was asked why I kept supporting Linda. I was given the advise by these people that it would be more expedient for me to leave her alone because I would never get any appreciation for the work I was doing. It is true that I have never received an appreciation from a great amount of people, and some resent it very much. I am not asking for the approval of people. I am only asking what would Jesus do?
Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan. When I have seen Linda being devoured by demons I do not ask the opinion of people - I ask myself what Jesus would have done. Would the Good Samaritan leave the suffering victim bleeding beside the road? Does the Good Samaritan ask the opinion of people and what appreciation he will get for helping the victim he finds?
My dear Mr Johann, I wasn't talking about any of this. It is important to you I can see. I am sure you believe you have good reasons for what you did and for what you believe but everybody else thinks they do too. I will just listen for awhile.
So, my dear Harley, are you asking us to forget the parable Jesus told us of the Good Samaritan and leave the bleeding sufferers behind, just because the devourers call themselves members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and demand recognition as proclaimers of the truth?
God forbid.
No, Mr Johann. I was not asking that. I would never ask that. This is a war. So many are fighting and trying to destroy one another. So much is negative. So many are mean. So many fight below the belt. I see both sides of the road covered in bleeding hurting people. I see so many casualties of this war, all hurt and bleeding and needing love and care. Maybe for you only one is laying by the side of the road bleeding and suffering. It is good to help the one, but she is not the only one. I think if you look up. I think if you really look around you you will see the others being beat up and hurt too.
I am going to go back to just reading here once in awhile. Too much here is just negative and critical and doesn't help or heal anybody. That is contagious. We have to make the positive and good grooves in our brains deeper than the negative bad ones because the deepest grooves win and control our minds.
Phl 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord [is] at hand.
Phl 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Phl 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Phl 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.
Phl 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
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Adam, Alex told people to call his mom. He told me how to. I never called her, but it is not true that nobody talked to her. I know two people who did and that is why I never had to call. I think it is fair to say you did not talk to her though because of what you are writing. I hope I can say that here because it is what I know now. I was feeling bad about all the things I heard and trying to figure out if I should write anything here. It is sad when people lie and it is sad what people do. I feel bad also that Alex said to find out and that that people can't say what they heard now. I don't know all about Tommy Shelton or the victims, but I do know something is wrong when people don't allow people to answer or start attacking them when they do. That is the thing that makes me believe those people are maybe the ones lying because they don't want to hear anything but what they say. Just because people don't want to hear about what another person believes doesn't mean people should answer them by making accusations about them. I think that is wrong no matter who does it. Jesus didn't do that. He answered what was being said by the bad people. He never acted like them when they were mean to him and said bad or mean things about him, but he always did tell them and everybody the truth even if they didn't like it and thought it was mean. You were nice to me before but I don't think you are being nice to other people in your posts and it makes me feel bad. I am sorry to say this but I have to because I don't think people are acting right. Even when we are right we have to say it nicely. :console:
Well Harley, all I can say is that Alex's mother says NO ONE has contacted her. I believe her.
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You may have discovered that the real problem started when a demon appeared to Brenda Walsh at night, and she followed the prodding of that demon.
At that time I asked Walt Thompson if he really wanted the demon to guide them through the crisis, and his reply was that if the demon would help them they would let him. I could not believe that this would ever come from a Christian Seventh-day Adventist ministry, but is seems like they made their choice.
:o :'( Johann!!! Please tell me I'm misunderstanding this! Walt Thompson actually said that?
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Jamie.Smith you have some NERVE to post what you did over at Cindy's site. You are a nasty distasteful gossiper.
Even if your allegation was true who cares?
I am shocked that you would even post such a thing as you have proven that you stand firmly in defense of not only a homosexual but an admitted sex pervert... by his own admission. Don't you think that is calling the kettle black?
Again, even if your allegation was true... We aren't the ones with felonies over our heads for child molestation.
And Cindy Conard, not suprising you would allow that to take place either. I am fully convinced you need Christ.
I find it even less suprising that Brad would allow that. As it seems he's your "contact man."
I will not even go over what has been previously addressed in previous post about Brad.
Also, I have never met Brad and Brad has never met me. Nor do I care to meet him after he's showed he's two faced.
I am going to use the common Shelton line...One that Trent Chance used when he made contact with Alex. "Those without sin cast the first stone."
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Harley posted this:
Adam, Alex told people to call his mom. He told me how to. I never called her, but it is not true that nobody talked to her. I know two people who did and that is why I never had to call. I think it is fair to say you did not talk to her though because of what you are writing. I hope I can say that here because it is what I know now. I was feeling bad about all the things I heard and trying to figure out if I should write anything here. It is sad when people lie and it is sad what people do. I feel bad also that Alex said to find out and that that people can't say what they heard now. I don't know all about Tommy Shelton or the victims, but I do know something is wrong when people don't allow people to answer or start attacking them when they do. That is the thing that makes me believe those people are maybe the ones lying because they don't want to hear anything but what they say. Just because people don't want to hear about what another person believes doesn't mean people should answer them by making accusations about them. I think that is wrong no matter who does it. Jesus didn't do that. He answered what was being said by the bad people. He never acted like them when they were mean to him and said bad or mean things about him, but he always did tell them and everybody the truth even if they didn't like it and thought it was mean. You were nice to me before but I don't think you are being nice to other people in your posts and it makes me feel bad. I am sorry to say this but I have to because I don't think people are acting right. Even when we are right we have to say it nicely. :console:
Harley, Harley, Harley.
No I have not talked to her just like none of you have. Have I ever stated I have? Nope. Have you all stated you have? Yes.
So who's Lying? Alex's mother has made it clear that she has not heard from anyone, nor has she discussed this case with anyone. So someone's lying.....Anyone with a right mind would be able to pen point who that is!!!
So you are saying that you condone these festering lies to be stated about a victim that most of you don't even know?! How sick. God help us if that is the case.
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Yes, in fact it did.
I believe I heard about that situation when I was there. Seems to me she was the impetus for 3ABN disallowing mixed gender travel on road trips...
You really heard about it when you were there? That would be a bit weird.
So Linda gets axed and divorced because she talked too long on the telephone to a physician in a foreign country when Walt Thompson told her not to, but staff at 3ABN talk about Brad having an affair with "T" and neither Brad nor "T" get fired?
Sounds like when I got an email from an irate woman who was irate that another "T" had had an affair with her husband, that "T"'s own first cousin. When I tried to confirm the story with someone who worked at 3ABN at the time of the alleged incident, he/she knew exactly who I was talking about and said, "You could tell there was something going on between those two." To date I have yet to hear that either Shelton got in trouble for their alleged incestuous affair.
But back to Brad and his apparent attempts to tamper with a witness, his own moral difficulties, his apparent defense of pedophile Tommy Shelton, has anyone bothered to ask Brad if Tommy ever molested him in his younger years?
I'm not saying that Brad is a victim, because Tommy certainly didn't victimize every last boy around Ezra. (One I talked with said he knew Tommy was grooming him but it never went further than that.) I'm only asking whether anyone has ever asked Brad if he was ever victimized himself. If not, was he ever groomed?
A follow-up question if Brad says no could be, what would happen to your job if you said yes?
If Brad indeed said "yes" I think we know what would happen. Just as Brad has lied about his conversation with Alex. We all know why he's lying that conversation never occurred. Nice Try Brad.... I still can't help but wonder why Brad Walker was so willing to institutionalize his and Alex's other brother when allegations surfaced against him. My understanding is Brad was not even around when this suppose incident occurred. But he wasted no time buying a plane ticket and flying to Illinois from DunLoring Va. to have his brother admitted. Yet, through out the years Brad Walker has stood adamantly on Tommy's side. Even when Tommy has admitted his guilty. Yep, sounds to me like his marriage and employment are at stake.
It's still not too late to make some wrongs right.
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While I understand that Brad is put in the middle of this and is trying to protect his marriage and employment does not mean it is right!
I don not know Valerie, but my guess is that she is not threatening Brad with divorce if he doesn't attempt to tamper with witnesses or smear victims or defend a pedophile.
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While I understand that Brad is put in the middle of this and is trying to protect his marriage and employment does not mean it is right!
I don not know Valerie, but my guess is that she is not threatening Brad with divorce if he doesn't attempt to tamper with witnesses or smear victims or defend a pedophile.
I've known Valerie since she was a very young girl and I can't honestly believe she would do that, either. However, I DO believe that Brad is under some SERIOUS pressure from someone or someones due to being in the family and being employed at 3ABN. I'm not at all defending his alleged comments about Alex, but I will say I do NOT envy the position he is in. No matter what he does, he'll be going against someone.
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Another thought about posts on here that came from the other site: Isn't it strange that all this time and even now they are making allegations and outright slander against certain ones in this forum, yet we get a mini-sermon from them on how WE need to "be like Jesus"?
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You may have discovered that the real problem started when a demon appeared to Brenda Walsh at night, and she followed the prodding of that demon.
At that time I asked Walt Thompson if he really wanted the demon to guide them through the crisis, and his reply was that if the demon would help them they would let him. I could not believe that this would ever come from a Christian Seventh-day Adventist ministry, but is seems like they made their choice.
:o :'( Johann!!! Please tell me I'm misunderstanding this! Walt Thompson actually said that?
Hardly believable? I could hardly believe it when I heard him say that to me on the phone. It made me more determined to keep on for truth's sake.
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What is the other site?
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LOL!! I lkove it, Snoppy!! Good cult people! I ran across af ew of them lately myself! LOL!!!
Ok, so I am totally confused(not being able to come here everyday). Ok so what? Alex, are you one of the young men that TS is now on trial for molesting? If not, is thera another trial for his mother to testify for or against him? No one will be testifying at the present trial, maybe one or two people at the penalty phase, right?
They are just being good cult people... :console:
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While I understand that Brad is put in the middle of this and is trying to protect his marriage and employment does not mean it is right!
I do not know Valerie, but my guess is that she is not threatening Brad with divorce if he doesn't attempt to tamper with witnesses or smear victims or defend a pedophile.
I've known Valerie since she was a very young girl and I can't honestly believe she would do that, either. However, I DO believe that Brad is under some SERIOUS pressure from someone or someones due to being in the family and being employed at 3ABN. I'm not at all defending his alleged comments about Alex, but I will say I do NOT envy the position he is in. No matter what he does, he'll be going against someone.
I seem to recall a member of Alex's family telling me around 2007 that they believed that Tommy was a pedophile. Also, it has been reported that Tommy fessed up long before 2006 to someone, who then told a member of Alex's family.
So I would find it very difficult to believe that Alex's family really thinks that Tommy is innocent.
Ok, so I am totally confused(not being able to come here everyday). Ok so what? Alex, are you one of the young men that TS is now on trial for molesting?
Correct, Di. Alex Walker, Brad Walker's brother, is one of them, and the fellow we reported about in late 2006 is the other.
Alex is Tommy's daughter's husband's brother. The daughter is Valerie, and the husband is Brad.
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While I understand that Brad is put in the middle of this and is trying to protect his marriage and employment does not mean it is right!
I don not know Valerie, but my guess is that she is not threatening Brad with divorce if he doesn't attempt to tamper with witnesses or smear victims or defend a pedophile.
I've known Valerie since she was a very young girl and I can't honestly believe she would do that, either. However, I DO believe that Brad is under some SERIOUS pressure from someone or someones due to being in the family and being employed at 3ABN. I'm not at all defending his alleged comments about Alex, but I will say I do NOT envy the position he is in. No matter what he does, he'll be going against someone.
I may have mis-spoken. What I was trying to point out was I am sure that it would put stress in ones marriage. Was not really meaning a divorce. Again I appologize if I mis-spoke.
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Let's imagine you crossed a Pharisee with Barney Fife, and a Inquisitor with George Jefferson, and then bred those two together.. what would we get? Let's imagine he called himself "sdaminister" and mostly posted during the Sabbath hours.. Would we still recognize, "Bob Pickle"?
It's "SDAminister", not "sdaminister".
I've seen my share of Andy Griffith. In the end, Barney and Andy always caught the crooks.
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A day of canning beans sure did get me behind in my reading ;)but one thing strikes me that I must comment on is to
Harley,
Harley, I am not exactly sure where or what you read and then apply scripture to right contexts pertaining to situations. Your quotes do not fit circumstances that apply here and make any sense to me.
1. First of all I can tell you that Bob's sins are not TS sins. and yes, there is degrees of sins. intentional and accidental, some are so devilish and the devil possessed people do the worst crimes of no conscience. I really think you do need to pray for your understanding of correct applications.
2. also, when Jesus was led to the cross and Satan and his angels intermingled with the people all crying "crucify crucify" Jesus ignored them, and one other thing is that you need to study who is your brother... who are you evenly yoked with. and Bob when I first read "Manson" when you spoke it My mind was already on that same person. He sure isn't my brother either. We are to be BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST. Not devil possessed servants. Your way of applying can get you in serious trouble. There is a time to stand up and discover what discernment is and if one cannot discern then there is no way to decide how you associate and with. and that is why you sound completely confused This sort of posting Harley is just a little out in left field when not applied in stable understanding. I was pretty shocked to read this and where you were coming from. If you have been reading along on these posts for any length of time you can definitely know who is full of :horse: feed. You seem like a nice person that is sincere but there is just too much wrong here that SDA honest people must stand up to. Just take into consideration what would be left if no one ever did..... It is not far from it now as it is plain to see what damage has been done to many lives and for how long. Its had it day and now time to pay. I do get angry when I imagine what these sick people have done. I have no sympathy for the devils folly done through his servants as it appears you do and state that all sin is the same. No it is not. One person can do something in pre meditation, intentional with hate, lust, selfish, and killing. Others can have accidental sins and very remorseful. There is a whole lot to think about in your posts.
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I can clearly see what is going on here. Harley states "this was sent to me" and then shares a post from an anonymous poster at the other site. First of all, I don't need any advice from some coward over there who isn't even adult enough to identify themselves. If a person doesn't have enough guts and God about them to own up to what they write, it must not be worth a whole lot.
Second, the very person who wrote the post has themselves been involved in smears and slander against myself and others in times past. It's convenient now that Tommy had admitted to what several of us have been accusing him of, we get chastised about our "attitudes."
Third, this is standard operating procedure for the 3ABN crowd. If you see someone who seems to be undecided, pull them aside and try to corrupt them. Harley, you are being targeted. I urge you to ignore the whole wad over there. They are up to no good.
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Harley's verbage sounds no different then Cindy.
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Adam, Alex told people to call his mom. He told me how to. I never called her, but it is not true that nobody talked to her. I know two people who did and that is why I never had to call. I think it is fair to say you did not talk to her though because of what you are writing. I hope I can say that here because it is what I know now. I was feeling bad about all the things I heard and trying to figure out if I should write anything here. It is sad when people lie and it is sad what people do. I feel bad also that Alex said to find out and that that people can't say what they heard now. I don't know all about Tommy Shelton or the victims, but I do know something is wrong when people don't allow people to answer or start attacking them when they do. That is the thing that makes me believe those people are maybe the ones lying because they don't want to hear anything but what they say. Just because people don't want to hear about what another person believes doesn't mean people should answer them by making accusations about them. I think that is wrong no matter who does it. Jesus didn't do that. He answered what was being said by the bad people. He never acted like them when they were mean to him and said bad or mean things about him, but he always did tell them and everybody the truth even if they didn't like it and thought it was mean. You were nice to me before but I don't think you are being nice to other people in your posts and it makes me feel bad. I am sorry to say this but I have to because I don't think people are acting right. Even when we are right we have to say it nicely. :console:
Well Harley, all I can say is that Alex's mother says NO ONE has contacted her. I believe her.
So Duane Clem, are you claiming you are posting here and believe this because she said this to you personally? Because, I know she did NOT!
Alex and Adam seem to be claiming she has only spoke to a sister and Grandmother, (but adam admits he hasn't talked to her) they also claim she hasn't talked to anyone else about Alex's case, or the statement Alex gave to Bob Pickle. They clarify it by saying she has received no phone calls, but I personally know of others who she has talked to, and I know she is a good woman, and did not say that no one has contacted her or that she has not talked to any one else about all of this because... she wouldn't. She has talked to others, and I (personally) do not believe she would lie.
I do believe this hurts her and is difficult and she needs a lot of prayer on her behalf, as do all involved here...
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Adam, Alex told people to call his mom. He told me how to. I never called her, but it is not true that nobody talked to her. I know two people who did and that is why I never had to call. I think it is fair to say you did not talk to her though because of what you are writing. I hope I can say that here because it is what I know now. I was feeling bad about all the things I heard and trying to figure out if I should write anything here. It is sad when people lie and it is sad what people do. I feel bad also that Alex said to find out and that that people can't say what they heard now. I don't know all about Tommy Shelton or the victims, but I do know something is wrong when people don't allow people to answer or start attacking them when they do. That is the thing that makes me believe those people are maybe the ones lying because they don't want to hear anything but what they say. Just because people don't want to hear about what another person believes doesn't mean people should answer them by making accusations about them. I think that is wrong no matter who does it. Jesus didn't do that. He answered what was being said by the bad people. He never acted like them when they were mean to him and said bad or mean things about him, but he always did tell them and everybody the truth even if they didn't like it and thought it was mean. You were nice to me before but I don't think you are being nice to other people in your posts and it makes me feel bad. I am sorry to say this but I have to because I don't think people are acting right. Even when we are right we have to say it nicely. :console:
Well Harley, all I can say is that Alex's mother says NO ONE has contacted her. I believe her.
So Duane Clem, did she say this to you personally? I know she did NOT.
Alex and Adam seem to be claiming she has only spoke to a sister and Grandmother, (but adam admits he hasn't talked to her) they also claim she hasn't talked to anyone else about Alex's case, or the statement Alex gave to Bob Pickle, they clarify it by saying she has received no phone calls, but I personally know of others who she has talked to, and I know she is a good woman, and did not say that no one has contacted her or that she has not talked to any one else about all of this becaus... she has, and I do not believe she would lie.
I do beleve this hurts her and is difficult and she needs a lot of prayer on her behalf, as do all involved here...
So your saying that my mother lied to me? She has told me on numerous occasions that she has NOT talked to anyone, but my sister and grandmother. Yes, it is true she has talked to Brad and Tommy's attorney. But she denies that any of you have contacted like you say you have. She is also appalled by the comment that was made by Sam, "that she was going to testify that I qualified for the mental hospital." I guess you are saying that she lied to my grandmother as well. My grandmother called and asked her who she had talked too and she told her the same thing. Do I need to have one of you contact my grandmother? I have already offered my mother's information what more do you want?
How dare you insinuate my mother is a liar, when she tells me she hasn't been contacted than she hasn't. This has nothing to do with my mother. She shouldn't even be involved. Of course she is tore up but I am not the one that has involved her in it. She will admit to that!
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Adam, Alex told people to call his mom. He told me how to. I never called her, but it is not true that nobody talked to her. I know two people who did and that is why I never had to call. I think it is fair to say you did not talk to her though because of what you are writing. I hope I can say that here because it is what I know now. I was feeling bad about all the things I heard and trying to figure out if I should write anything here. It is sad when people lie and it is sad what people do. I feel bad also that Alex said to find out and that that people can't say what they heard now. I don't know all about Tommy Shelton or the victims, but I do know something is wrong when people don't allow people to answer or start attacking them when they do. That is the thing that makes me believe those people are maybe the ones lying because they don't want to hear anything but what they say. Just because people don't want to hear about what another person believes doesn't mean people should answer them by making accusations about them. I think that is wrong no matter who does it. Jesus didn't do that. He answered what was being said by the bad people. He never acted like them when they were mean to him and said bad or mean things about him, but he always did tell them and everybody the truth even if they didn't like it and thought it was mean. You were nice to me before but I don't think you are being nice to other people in your posts and it makes me feel bad. I am sorry to say this but I have to because I don't think people are acting right. Even when we are right we have to say it nicely. :console:
Well Harley, all I can say is that Alex's mother says NO ONE has contacted her. I believe her.
So Duane Clem, did she say this to you personally? I know she did NOT.
Alex and Adam seem to be claiming she has only spoke to a sister and Grandmother, (but adam admits he hasn't talked to her) they also claim she hasn't talked to anyone else about Alex's case, or the statement Alex gave to Bob Pickle, they clarify it by saying she has received no phone calls, but I personally know of others who she has talked to, and I know she is a good woman, and did not say that no one has contacted her or that she has not talked to any one else about all of this becaus... she has, and I do not believe she would lie.
I do beleve this hurts her and is difficult and she needs a lot of prayer on her behalf, as do all involved here...
So your saying that my mother lied to me? She has told me on numerous occasions that she has NOT talked to anyone, but my sister and grandmother. Yes, it is true she has talked to Brad and Tommy's attorney. But she denies that any of you have contacted like you say you have. She is also appalled by the comment that was made by Sam, "that she was going to testify that I qualified for the mental hospital." I guess you are saying that she lied to my grandmother as well. My grandmother called and asked her who she had talked too and she told her the same thing. Do I need to have one of you contact my grandmother? I have already offered my mother's information what more do you want?
How dare you insinuate my mother is a liar, when she tells me she hasn't been contacted than she hasn't. This has nothing to do with my mother. She shouldn't even be involved. Of course she is tore up but I am not the one that has involved her in it. She will admit to that!
Calm down. No one. Not a one has insinuated or claimed your mom is a liar. The only one suggesting that, is you and Adam. Of course if the case proceeds to trial she will be involved, she will testify and all will know what she has to say. If you don't want her involved before then and wish to keep saying people shouldn't bother her due to her health? Then I suggest you stop talking to people (ask Adam to stop bringing it up) and stop causing them to post about how the Defenses witnesses will be used for you ( Johann, Adam, Pickle.. etc) and stop posting and asking people to call her. Does that seem logical to you?
By the way, Sam is not Brad. I know Sam. I have been a guest of Sam's. I have sat at Sam's table in Sam's house with friends and family after the Missus of the house prepared a bountiful and nutritious spread. I have been in Sam's living room as Sam logged in on the computer and posted here on adventtalk. Sam is NOT Brad.
And your mother speaks to people, people she knows, people who love her and people she loves, that doesn't always register as "Contact from an outsider" or a phone call from one. You really need to think about that, for the quotes attributed to your Brother were all that came from him. The rest of your family also have the right to speak. You and your claims, and Adam are not a sacred cow. You are posting on a public internet forum.
You started a snowball here, all based on a lie.You claimed Sam was Brad. Next thing is Adam is posting accusations against your brother.( which he got from you) and talking about your mom (also from you) It is being claimed Brad is the source of all information against you. (not true) It is being claimed there is witness tampering going on. etc etc etc... but Adam also claims he has not talked to your mother, nor ever met Brad, so his source is YOU
That is all 100% false.
All here, right or wrong have the right to say they believe you and your statement to Pickle. They have the right to say they believe TS guilty, right? Your brother when asked has the right to also say the opposite, right? He has the right to say what Adam posted about him was a lie, right?
Well, this whole scale attack of him seems to indicate that you all think he doesn't have that right.
To say he is the "source against you"? (false) To instigate, and enable attacks against him because he answered questions about public posts here about him? (wrong)
To have accusations of infidelity posted here against him? (false)
To watch people post his marriage is falling apart,(false) and that his opinion about you and the denial of Adams posted claims about him are "witness tampering"? (FALSE!)
To see your brother condemned and attacked falsely just because he says he doesn't believe you and says the public accusations against him are not true? How dare you? YOU will not only have to answer to God, but you will answer to your family, and family is a gift from God.
Believe that. They love you like no other, except for the True Father and son.
I can not understand why you allowed all of this against your brother or why you would promote and condone lies on your behalf.
It is despicable, and is sin, and you will answer. Despite that, I am praying that you open your eyes.
"Oh what a tangled web we weave. When first we practice to deceive."
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You are right if it does proceed she will be involved and I do not have a problem with that. Then if Sam is not Brad he/she has no business making comments for my mother, correct? Especially ones that she finds to be sick and appalling.
And your mother speaks to people, people she knows, people who love her and people she loves, that doesn't always register as "Contact from an outsider" or a phone call from one.
You really need to think about that, for the quotes attributed to your Brother were all that came from him.
I don't guess I understand this. Are you saying that all of these quotes that my mother supposedly said came from Brad? If so then my point is proven no one has contacted my mother.
I can not and will not speak for Adam. Just like you he is free to post what he wants.
What part did Adam say that was a lie? The fact that Brad contacted me and what he told me? Sorry, but that wasn't a lie and that can and will be proven if need be. There was no lies told against Brad. Everything that was stated about him is in fact true. Furthermore, Brad did not think twice about allowing lies to be spoken about me, did he? So do I feel sorry...nope. You also say that I allowed "lies" to be spoken about Brad. False.
I do not need family counseling from you either. I love all of my family the same. I still even love Brad and hope one day that relationship can be repaired. You are right I will answer one day but it won't be to you. It will be to a just God who knows all.
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Seems that Brad Boy is tangled up in a web of "family" marriage. I must admit that LS was set free before the spider weaved the last choking webs.
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It is very confusing.
Ok, so I am totally confused
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I don't guess I understand this. Are you saying that all of these quotes that my mother supposedly said came from Brad?
I didn't intend to post here further, but do not want you to labor under or be upset unnecessarily due to a misunderstanding, or because I posted in a way which was confusing. You may not accept it, but I care for you every bit as much as I care for your mom, your brother, and TS.
It is my understanding and belief that Sam has talked to your mom. It is also my understanding, and this I can testify to, that Brad only spoke in reply to what your "buddy" Adam posted here to all when asked about that,(and Brad said nothing else) and that none of what was posted came from your mom. You aren't the only one concerned about her, or your dad...
Alex, you have to know there are those in your family who love you but have reason to not believe you. You shouldn't be talking about them in public. You should stop feeding Adam information and stories and having him do so. They are not gagged or bound and can say what they like and give their point of view since you and Adam decided to come on her and talk and post to the public about them. They know you lie *****
You know this didn't come from your mom or Brad, and you know there are problems. Why make this worse? Why not just move ahead, do the right thing and not be offended. I would not even have said this but you do insist on pushing things. Trust is earned, and it can happen. Especially when love and a desire to trust is there and those involved take the high road. Try and keep that in mind for all things work together for good to those who love God and are the called, according to his purpose.
Edited to remove inappropriate material
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Alex, you have to know there are those in your family who love you but have reason to not believe you. You shouldn't be talking about them in public. You should stop feeding Adam information and stories and having him do so. They are not gagged or bound and can say what they like and give their point of view since you and Adam decided to come on her and talk and post to the public about them. They know you lie {Edited to remove inappropriate content}.
Sorry, but I cannot respond to this under the advice of my attorneys because this will be rebutted in trial if it comes to that. I will say this I have no problem showing you my medical records.
I'm curious why you edited out? I have no problem with these accuasations being made public as I said they will be rebutted at trial.
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Alex, you have to know there are those in your family who love you but have reason to not believe you. You shouldn't be talking about them in public. You should stop feeding Adam information and stories and having him do so. They are not gagged or bound and can say what they like and give their point of view since you and Adam decided to come on her and talk and post to the public about them. They know you lie {Edited to remove inappropriate content}.
Sorry, but I cannot respond to this under the advice of my attorneys because this will be rebutted in trial if it comes to that. I will say this I have no problem showing you my medical records.
I'm curious why you edited out? I have no problem with these accuasations being made public as I said they will be rebutted at trial.
I understand and apologize if I spoke out of line. I have no idea what might be brought up in trial. I had no problems with what I posted either and can only say it was not me who did the editing.... I wish whoever did so would have left a edit note and name as it wouldn't be so confusing. I'm sorry for that also. If the powers that be delete, I am not complaining here. ;)
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---removed---
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Alex, you have to know there are those in your family who love you but have reason to not believe you. You shouldn't be talking about them in public. You should stop feeding Adam information and stories and having him do so. They are not gagged or bound and can say what they like and give their point of view since you and Adam decided to come on her and talk and post to the public about them. They know you lie {Edited to remove inappropriate content}.
Sorry, but I cannot respond to this under the advice of my attorneys because this will be rebutted in trial if it comes to that. I will say this I have no problem showing you my medical records.
I'm curious why you edited out? I have no problem with these accuasations being made public as I said they will be rebutted at trial.
I understand and apologize if I spoke out of line. I have no idea what might be brought up in trial. I had no problems with what I posted either and can only say it was not me who did the editing.... I wish whoever did so would have left a edit note and name as it wouldn't be so confusing. I'm sorry for that also. If the powers that be delete, I am not complaining here. ;)
The name of the moderator who did the editing and the time of the action appear at the bottom of the post which has been edited.
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Its easy walk all over and continue the demolition of victims of clergy abuse, isn't it. One of the primary reasons that victims of child sexual abuse, clergy abuse, and rape so seldom come forward and report it, is that they know people like Pat Williams are out there waiting to further victimize them. They most often feel that it is better to suffer in silence than to put themselves at the mercy of this sort of person. And Pat Williams has certainly demonstrated that their fears are well founded.
Alex, you have to know there are those in your family who love you but have reason to not believe you. You shouldn't be talking about them in public. You should stop feeding Adam information and stories and having him do so. They are not gagged or bound and can say what they like and give their point of view since you and Adam decided to come on her and talk and post to the public about them. They know you lie {Edited to remove inappropriate content}.
Sorry, but I cannot respond to this under the advice of my attorneys because this will be rebutted in trial if it comes to that. I will say this I have no problem showing you my medical records.
I'm curious why you edited out? I have no problem with these accuasations being made public as I said they will be rebutted at trial.
I understand and apologize if I spoke out of line. I have no idea what might be brought up in trial. I had no problems with what I posted either and can only say it was not me who did the editing.... I wish whoever did so would have left a edit note and name as it wouldn't be so confusing. I'm sorry for that also. If the powers that be delete, I am not complaining here. ;)
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I don't guess I understand this. Are you saying that all of these quotes that my mother supposedly said came from Brad?
I didn't intend to post here further, but do not want you to labor under or be upset unnecessarily due to a misunderstanding, or because I posted in a way which was confusing. You may not accept it, but I care for you every bit as much as I care for your mom, your brother, and TS.
It is my understanding and belief that Sam has talked to your mom. It is also my understanding, and this I can testify to, that Brad only spoke in reply to what your "buddy" Adam posted here to all when asked about that,(and Brad said nothing else) and that none of what was posted came from your mom. You aren't the only one concerned about her, or your dad...
Alex, you have to know there are those in your family who love you but have reason to not believe you. You shouldn't be talking about them in public. You should stop feeding Adam information and stories and having him do so. They are not gagged or bound and can say what they like and give their point of view since you and Adam decided to come on her and talk and post to the public about them. They know you lie *****
You know this didn't come from your mom or Brad, and you know there are problems. Why make this worse? Why not just move ahead, do the right thing and not be offended. I would not even have said this but you do insist on pushing things. Trust is earned, and it can happen. Especially when love and a desire to trust is there and those involved take the high road. Try and keep that in mind for all things work together for good to those who love God and are the called, according to his purpose.
Edited to remove inappropriate material
I take it that you are someone that I personally know by the first part of this post? I do appreciate your kind words I want that to be known. Second, all I can say about Brad is that he knows he called me and he knows the content of that conversation. That is up to him to deny it or admit it. But he and I know the truth on what he said to me. It is also true that it was documented. I knew full well that there would be some that would not believe me. Don't think I didn't think about that, as my fears have came true.
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Alex, you have to know there are those in your family who love you but have reason to not believe you. You shouldn't be talking about them in public. You should stop feeding Adam information and stories and having him do so. They are not gagged or bound and can say what they like and give their point of view since you and Adam decided to come on her and talk and post to the public about them. They know you lie {Edited to remove inappropriate content}.
Sorry, but I cannot respond to this under the advice of my attorneys because this will be rebutted in trial if it comes to that. I will say this I have no problem showing you my medical records.
I'm curious why you edited out? I have no problem with these accuasations being made public as I said they will be rebutted at trial.
I understand and apologize if I spoke out of line. I have no idea what might be brought up in trial. I had no problems with what I posted either and can only say it was not me who did the editing.... I wish whoever did so would have left a edit note and name as it wouldn't be so confusing. I'm sorry for that also. If the powers that be delete, I am not complaining here. ;)
The name of the moderator who did the editing and the time of the action appear at the bottom of the post which has been edited.
Thank you. I think we both knew that is normally the case. If you look at the time of our posts and the time of edit notes and action though, our confusion is easily understood. These things happen... :)
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I edited twice, once for content, and once for formatting.
Alex, you have to know there are those in your family who love you but have reason to not believe you. You shouldn't be talking about them in public. You should stop feeding Adam information and stories and having him do so. They are not gagged or bound and can say what they like and give their point of view since you and Adam decided to come on her and talk and post to the public about them. They know you lie {Edited to remove inappropriate content}.
Sorry, but I cannot respond to this under the advice of my attorneys because this will be rebutted in trial if it comes to that. I will say this I have no problem showing you my medical records.
I'm curious why you edited out? I have no problem with these accuasations being made public as I said they will be rebutted at trial.
I understand and apologize if I spoke out of line. I have no idea what might be brought up in trial. I had no problems with what I posted either and can only say it was not me who did the editing.... I wish whoever did so would have left a edit note and name as it wouldn't be so confusing. I'm sorry for that also. If the powers that be delete, I am not complaining here. ;)
The name of the moderator who did the editing and the time of the action appear at the bottom of the post which has been edited.
Thank you. I think we both knew that is normally the case. If you look at the time of our posts and the time of edit notes and action though, our confusion is easily understood. These things happen... :)
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I don't guess I understand this. Are you saying that all of these quotes that my mother supposedly said came from Brad?
I didn't intend to post here further, but do not want you to labor under or be upset unnecessarily due to a misunderstanding, or because I posted in a way which was confusing. You may not accept it, but I care for you every bit as much as I care for your mom, your brother, and TS.
It is my understanding and belief that Sam has talked to your mom. It is also my understanding, and this I can testify to, that Brad only spoke in reply to what your "buddy" Adam posted here to all when asked about that,(and Brad said nothing else) and that none of what was posted came from your mom. You aren't the only one concerned about her, or your dad...
Alex, you have to know there are those in your family who love you but have reason to not believe you. You shouldn't be talking about them in public. You should stop feeding Adam information and stories and having him do so. They are not gagged or bound and can say what they like and give their point of view since you and Adam decided to come on her and talk and post to the public about them. They know you lie *****
You know this didn't come from your mom or Brad, and you know there are problems. Why make this worse? Why not just move ahead, do the right thing and not be offended. I would not even have said this but you do insist on pushing things. Trust is earned, and it can happen. Especially when love and a desire to trust is there and those involved take the high road. Try and keep that in mind for all things work together for good to those who love God and are the called, according to his purpose.
Edited to remove inappropriate material
I take it that you are someone that I personally know by the first part of this post? I do appreiciate your kind words I want that to be known. Second, all I can say about Brad is that he knows he called me and he knows the content of that conversation. That is up to him to deny it or admit it. But he and I know the truth on what he said to me. It is also true that it was documented. I knew full well that there would be some that would not believe me. Don't think I didn't think about that, as my fears have came true.
Alex, I also appreciate your not taking offense and your courteous reply here, and your understanding. That is rare here. I do understand how hard this is for you, and for others. I do believe your brother apologized to you, well really, what brother who loved his sibling wouldn't? I also am sorry you are going through all this, but I have to be honest, I am sorry that Tommy is going through all this too. We all need evidence and proof, and it'll come, so I am content to wait.It is my belief that all will be resolved, one day for all, and I don't intend to attack you from now until then so please don't be alarmed by me in the meantime. ( I said my piece) Maybe one day, you and I will stand beside one another and throw our crown at Jesus' feet, and sing that song that only His can sing, amazingly loud, and joyfull . A song which will raise the hairs on the necks of all who hear it, and echo and thunder throughout the universe and cause all of God's creation to join in and praise him and give him the glory. It makes me cry to think of it. That will be awesome, huh? I can't wait till then.
Peace...
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Its easy walk all over and continue the demolition of victims of clergy abuse, isn't it. One of the primary reasons that victims of child sexual abuse, clergy abuse, and rape so seldom come forward and report it, is that they know people like Pat Williams are out there waiting to further victimize them. They most often feel that it is better to suffer in silence than to put themselves at the mercy of this sort of person. And Pat Williams has certainly demonstrated that their fears are well founded.
So true. For this reason I am locking this topic for a while.
I urge those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to do some meditation and prayer before proceeding.
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Alex, I also appreciate your not taking offense and your courteous reply here, and your understanding. That is rare here. I do understand how hard this is for you, and for others. I do believe your brother apologized to you, well really, what brother who loved his sibling wouldn't? I also am sorry you are going through all this, but I have to be honest, I am sorry that Tommy is going through all this too. We all need evidence and proof, and it'll come, so I am content to wait.It is my belief that all will be resolved, one day for all, and I don't intend to attack you from now until then so please don't be alarmed by me in the meantime. ( I said my piece) Maybe one day, you and I will stand beside one another and throw our crown at Jesus' feet, and sing that song that only His can sing, amazingly loud, and joyfull . A song which will raise the hairs on the necks of all who hear it, and echo and thunder throughout the universe and cause all of God's creation to join in and praise him and give him the glory. It makes me cry to think of it. That will be awesome, huh? I can't wait till then.
Peace...
This was posted as I was locking the topic. Thank you for this, Pat Williams.
The topic will still be locked for now, but you are all free to post elsewhere and also open new topics.