Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Rrrapido on August 03, 2010, 11:11:10 PM
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Could 3ABN be a cult within the SDA church?
With the leadership of 3ABN insisting on absolute submission of 3ABN employees to their operating decisions and with some within the 3ABN leadership making claims that Danny Shelton's judgement is divinely guided and not to be questioned, it would make any curious onlooker begin to wonder.
What are some of your thoughts???
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Absolutely!! That is why I call it the Shelton Regime.
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It wouldn't be the first time a cult has sprung up in our church, and the earmarks of a cult are there, as evidenced even by some of our valued members here on AT. ;)
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Hmm, The SDA Church should have stood up before when they had the chance it seems but they haven't yet.
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Until SDAs come out of the "cult" sectionin way too many bookstores, we are going to have to make that a cult within a cult.....which is just plain scary! Ok?!
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I'm sure Jim Gilley is wishing he had never got involved with these criminals.
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I'm sure Jim Gilley is wishing he had never got involved with these criminals.
He is probably sweating bullets about now.
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Why would Jiim Gilley be sweating bullets?
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It's guilt by association. He knew what was happening.
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I personally don't care what happens to 3ABN after this. It doesn't matter because they do not speak for neither do they represent the beliefs of the SDA church. The church has never condoned child molestation or insisted that divorce and remarriage can be sought for 'spiritual adultery'.
Hope channel and LLBN represent our church far better than 3ABN ever could.
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I am not a defender whats so ever on what the leadership of 3abn has done. and I do not like being associated with those all the evil saga's behind the scenes and their way of taking in the money and misuse. Who knows what all has transpired under this false leadership. But.....some of the programs with some of the evangelists are much better then watching "Hope Channel". Whether you think so or not it is the most tearing down of foundations of SDA that I can even imagine. No it is not the best place to go for true Adventism. I don't know your age or your preferences but I am watching SDA and Hope going against much of what is our first foundations. They are going for the different and new age era. That is why I get so angry at our best evangelist "mingling" with 3abn. I watched nothing but good preaching from the evangelists that I am very familiar with. The rest got switched. I am hoping something can be done to change all personell and the church have legitimate name instead of this bogus stuff. Or is this quite some upfront shield that SDA cannot get sued like other denominations for harbouring such ill fated situations?? Wouldn't surprise me a bit with what I know about how some scheme claiming to be SDA and the very best in the art of business take overs and manuvering intentions using loops to their best advantage for unsuspecting victims.
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Great preachers? How great are they when they know of how Danny's abused his position, his employees, and his wife, yet they don't tell him that he's in error because he doesn't know the scriptures or the power of God?
I tell you why they don't confront him. Because they know they will not get the TV exposure that they crave if they ruffle him.
How great are these preachers if they have no backbone?
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Agreed, horsethief.
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Doug Batchelor. Kenneth Cox. Steve Wohlberg. What good are they as evangelists when they knowingly ignore sin and cannot call it by it's right name?
There is no possible way that they could not know about Tommy Shelton's pedophilia and Danny dumping his wife and remarrying with no Biblical grounds. Furthermore, they cannot deny that they know that Danny is trying to subvert justice in Tommy's situation...
Still they appear regularly on 3ABN and these aren't reruns either. I'm not lumping them into Danny's circle of co-conspirators. But how can they continue any business relations with someone this cruel and so set on ruthless self-promotion?
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I know your right and really do not have an argument from where you are coming from. I also am very disappointed. I just do not know what is worse. The hidden sin or the open. I feel very frustrated over it and finally my husband and I try to do things on individual basis to people to spread the word of all that come in contact. I just wish so much it wasn't this way, but It rings clear of how Adventist in the end will become just what is happening. The time must be near. But I also realize that someone has to stand for the right and still back the ones that have fought this horrific World wide embarrassment. I do believe it is going to get worse for this corruption. The Lord does not take all this lightly.
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I am an Adventist today because of Ken Cox.
However, his talk at a 3ABN camp meeting where he lashed out against those concerned about Danny's corruption was wrong. I wrote him or his organization about it, and never got a reply.
Why did Ken Cox report Danny Shelton as being a board member of his organization in 2008? Is Danny Shelton still one of his board members? If so, why?
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I did not know this and how sad. :'(
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When I have called Amazing Facts asking why Doug Batchelor still does business with 3ABN?, I get this "Who are we to judge?" response. But this is not a matter of being judgemental. It's a matter of using discernment. I have to ask myself why these evangelists continue to appear on 3ABN? I have to conclude that there is no reason except for self-promotion. Each one of them, in my opinion, has sold themselves out to Danny Shelton, who is a master at promoting himself for himself.
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Perhaps our new GC President will try to turn things around?
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I think that it was reported that Ted Wilson, the new GC president, had an interview with 3ABN after his election to president, in which he supposedly spoke of 3ABN in laudatory terms
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Well, maybe he doesn't know what is going on at 3abm. :pals: :oops: Maybe someone should inform him so he knows. :hot:
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Aren't 3ABN's problems general knowledge among church leaders?
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Aren't 3ABN's problems general knowledge among church leaders?
Yes, I think it is. I have been surprised how much some of those I have talked to know and tell me that the divorce in June, 2004, has done much damage to the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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Unfortunately, Horsethief, as along as GC has any associations or contracts with 3ABN, they do also represent out church.
I personally don't care what happens to 3ABN after this. It doesn't matter because they do not speak for neither do they represent the beliefs of the SDA church. The church has never condoned child molestation or insisted that divorce and remarriage can be sought for 'spiritual adultery'.
Hope channel and LLBN represent our church far better than 3ABN ever could.
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No response needed to a 3ABN adherent.
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Excuse me, Horsethief? I don't understand your comment. Or maybe I do all to well.
I don't even watch 3ABn, never heard of Danny or Linda until Danny put their business on blast 5-6 years. I am not a fan, they don't cater, by choice, to my demographic, so the network doesn't appeal to me. Now does that mean because I know Danny(and his family) have some sreious issues, that I don't recognize them as Children of God? No. Does it mean that i have to believe them to be personified sin.......Nope! Danny is wrong, the borad is wrong, TS is wrong and just nasty(oops!), but I pray for their lives and salvation. That they may do the right thing by the people they have harmed.
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Di,
They don't cater to your demographic? That raises a question I've wondered about for awhile.
Didn't I read somewhere on BSDA that Wintley Phipps got a million dollars from 3ABN for starting an urban channel? Whatever happened? Did he start the urban channel? If not, did he return whatever money he got? If not, did the money go for some other project? If so, what?
Or was there never any money given by 3ABN to Wintley?
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I have no idea about that, Bob. I heard it just as you did. I actually saw Pastor Phipps when he came to the Bay ARea several months ago. I don't remember him mentioning the Channel at all. He was there on behalf of his Academy.
No, 3ABN doesn't cater to my demographic. I tend to favor what they call "urban gospel", and I am not in any manner a conservative SDA. 3ABN is not for me, and that was looooooong before this drama even started. It is not a problem. God did make us all different with different tastes, in food, flowers, colors, dress, music..........that is really ok with me.
Di,
They don't cater to your demographic? That raises a question I've wondered about for awhile.
Didn't I read somewhere on BSDA that Wintley Phipps got a million dollars from 3ABN for starting an urban channel? Whatever happened? Did he start the urban channel? If not, did he return whatever money he got? If not, did the money go for some other project? If so, what?
Or was there never any money given by 3ABN to Wintley?
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Religious Cults: The Popular View
What exactly are religious cults? With such a large number of religious organizations and movements in the world today, it's important to understand what we mean when we start labeling certain groups. The dictionary defines cult as "a system of religious worship or ritual"; "devoted attachment to, or extravagant admiration for, a person, principle, etc." According to this definition, any believer in any god is a member of a cult. In the popular media, a cult is typically defined as a religious sect whose members are "controlled" by a manipulative organization or individual. This kind of cult is usually portrayed as deceptive, requiring absolute loyalty from its followers. Members are often removed from their prior lives altogether, including their jobs, homes and families. The Hare Krishnas, Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church, and Moses David Berg's Family of Love are some popular examples of this type of cult.
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What are some characteristics of religious cults?
It is important to understand the characteristics of religious cults in order to identify a cult when we encounter one. So how do we recognize a cult when we see one? Study the following questions regarding the characteristics of religious cults:
Does the group claim to be a Christian organization or a friend of Christianity, but their teachings misrepresent Christian theology? Most often, the doctrines of the Trinity and salvation by grace alone are misrepresented in a cult's teachings.
Is the group characterized by authoritarianism? Are members who disobey to the slightest degree punished severely or excommunicated? Can a person think and study for themselves or must they rely on the group's leader for all of their instruction?
Is the Bible misinterpreted in the groups teaching? They may claim to interpret the Bible correctly, but does their biblical interpretation stand up under closely examination?
Are members of the group subject to psychological, physical, or spiritual harm?
When asked, can the group provide an accurate and detailed history of the founders and origin of the organization?
Do you sense intimidation or deception within the group or toward outsiders? Are the members manipulated - either by time-manipulation or thought-manipulation?
Is there secrecy?
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Sounds like 3ABN to me, horsethief!
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Why would the SDA church be considered a cult? I have heard them called that, but I can't agree. Never have and after being on here with you all, still can't.
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I think, mrst53, that some folks who would like to refute what Adventists believe have a hard time doing so using the Bible and simple logic. And so they choose instead to resort to name calling and smear tactics.
The same kind of thing has been done for centuries.
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Why would the SDA church be considered a cult? I have heard them called that, but I can't agree. Never have and after being on here with you all, still can't.
I believe the Adventist Church indeed does have the truth for this time we live, Sabbath, Investigative Judgment etc... But I also believe they have become a cult, in that loyalty to the church and their leaders often trumps the truth as it is in Jesus. A great deal of the problem with the church can be attributed to their moving away from the writings of Ellen G. White and relying on there own (in many cases) logic which puts them in direct conflict with there own stated beliefs. The foundation of the church in its original configuration was a safeguard against cultish behaviors and practices, but the moving away from the original principles of the church has indeed made it for many no more than a cult
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I think "cult" is too strong a word. "Laodicean" sounds much more appropriate to me.
"But I also believe they have become a cult, in that loyalty to the church and their leaders often trumps the truth as it is in Jesus. A great deal of the problem with the church can be attributed to their moving away from the [Bible] and relying on there own (in many cases) logic which puts them in direct conflict with there own stated beliefs. The foundation of the church in its original configuration was a safeguard against cultish behaviors and practices, but the moving away from the original principles of the church has indeed made it for many no more than a cult."
Can you name any churches out there which would not fit the above slightly altered description you gave? If not, would you feel comfortable calling all churches "cults"?
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I think "cult" is too strong a word. "Laodice an" sounds much more appropriate to me.
"But I also believe they have become a cult, in that loyalty to the church and their leaders often trumps the truth as it is in Jesus. A great deal of the problem with the church can be attributed to their moving away from the [Bible] and relying on there own (in many cases) logic which puts them in direct conflict with there own stated beliefs. The foundation of the church in its original configuration was a safeguard against cultish behaviors and practices, but the moving away from the original principles of the church has indeed made it for many no more than a cult."
Can you name any churches out there which would not fit the above slightly altered description you gave? If not, would you feel comfortable calling all churches "cults"?
Thanks Pickle. What I was trying to say is that the church in its beginning and taken properly is not a cult. But, for many, I think it is undeniable, the church is no more than a cult. -----And most churches if not all have elements of cultish behavior in them. But I do agree with you the church as in true practicing Adventist are more apply described as Laodicia.
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Because of the Era of time when Spiritualism poked its ugly head, EGW was given vision along with other men having the same vision and she alone did not want to venture into the calling of "messanger" because she felt strongly that most people would think exactly then how they do now. (Why would God let Satan display his ugly head to convince the evil power present and not show His power of truth for this new trick in this era of time.) But the inspiration was strong and she complied knowing this evil at this time. and because of a woman entering into this frail and weak- it automatically became this issue with people that did not venture in themselves to see beyond their own opinions of religious cares. The "messenger" was just to bring light to the already written word. To make it more simple of understanding for the lazy that did not figure out true "doctrine". She wrote many times that -hard study unless given "light" was hard to get through from the visions of John because much was written in symbolism. "example" the cleansing of the Sanctuary and a timing of Jesus return and the Great disappointment of return. Not only was there "visions" but the hard study came of "eras of History in generations of books to weigh up against the prophecies where all fell into place that proved the Biblical "doctrine" as truth. That is why there is references in every book of details A lifetime of study and a lifetime of writing can only come from the "Holy Spirit" to the one that excepted this last day message to give to the sincere hearts of people. Visions confirmed Bible and Bible confirmed History. and Adventist are the product of knowing all truth coming from combining Bible that matches History. But outsiders, because they felt a woman founder that was given "vision" --that it comes from their own beliefs that stem from "Spiritualism." and that-- they do believe that from evil experience and not believing or thinking that the Holy Spirit has the power to do likewise in the manner of good and "messaging" to God's latter day people. There had to be a way to bring on the 3 angels message and that is all it was. I can be a little more specific, it is like me not believing a woman should be ordained a preacher and still don't. But if a woman is called for God's purpose as EGW even though she only calls herself a messenger and not a prophet is a whole different scenario then EGW being called to be an ordained preacher of which she was not. I call her a "called prophet" and that is what people cannot come into except and then use the word "cult". My version is strong as I have taken Heaven a serious thing and am sure the Bible has left serious instructions on how to get there and meet Jesus. I am mostly thankful that there was a last hour instruction message as back in the 1800's people did not even adhere to the second coming...according to History! I also take the time to see where truth lies....in all things. and the problem comes when one does not.
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Waco and David Koresh would have been a cult. I think when people stop following Jesus Christ and start following" someone" then it becomes a cult. Altho people have a problem with the Jehovah witness'. I have studied with them and found that their Bibles leave out scriptures from the King James Original Greek Version and they have no answer to that. Jesus Christ can find believers in all places if they are searching. I am not going to judge anyone, just preach Jesus Christ.
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Here are some religious cult leaders from history and modern days.
The Bab (1819-1850) and Baha'u'llah (1817-1892) serve as the founders of Baha'i. "The Bab" stated that he was the greatest manifestation of God. He was followed by Baha'u'llah who supposedly brought even greater revelation to light. These leaders believed God to be ineffable and unknowable. Their history is filled with failed prophecy.
Guy Ballard (1878-1939) based The Mighty I AM cult on the spiritistic revelations of him and his wife.
Charles Fillmore (1854-1948) is credited with founding the Unity School of Christianity. His writings are highly regarded, as is the Bible, when interpreted by Unity.
Joseph Smith (1805-1844) based Mormonism on supernatural revelations that he received.
Sun Myung Moon (1920- ), the founded of the Unification Church claims that Jesus visited him, charging him with finishing the work that Jesus came to do. Moon claims to succeed where Jesus failed.
David Koresh (1959-1993) led the Branch Davidians authoritatively. He has been accused of sexual abuse and of harming young children.
Victor Paul Wierwille (1917 -1985), founder of The Way International, claims that God audibly spoke to him, telling him to interpret the Bible in a whole new way.
L. Ron Hubbard (1911-1986) is listed as the founder of scientology. He claimed his writings are the only source for solving the problems of mankind.
Religious cult leaders are often very charismatic and considered to be unique in some way. Often times, the leader claims to be a god, angel, or a messenger for God assigned for a specific mission. He or she is held in high reproach and gradually becomes the center of worship. It is often very dangerous to contradict or criticize the cult leader. Members who do so are often excommunicated or severely punished. Ultimately, the leader gets his way, no matter who he tramples in the process, including government authorities, etc.
Leaders are often preoccupied with making money and bringing in new members. Once members are added, the leader will dictate how they should think and act. Day-to-day decisions are often brought to the leader for approval.
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Reading all of EGW proves she was none of the above. Her writings are totally different then the money makers versions and self proclaimed messiahs.
She claims nothing of herself or for herself.
She leads back only to Bible and writers of History to prove Bible
Her visions of past events are the only ones that have came true that she gave before they happened. (Oakland, New York, San Fransisco, Battlecreek and more) Some Adventist do not like to make the connection of the latest 9-11. But it is there big and plain. Check on Volume 9 T. starting on chapter 11 page 9. and....the fire engines could not quench the fires. (Sort of coincidence ??) No I do not think so.
Her messages were for the benefit and good of the people in health and welfare, discipline and stewards of all things that God created. Everything she wrote pointed to the Good and Love of God that He has for man and wooing man to HImself working through human instrument.
No other wrote like it or the trail of it that it presented and followed. It is the "Golden Nugget" sifted and found amongst the dirt. There has always been a duplicate of God's things from the "Deceiver" and there has always been a choice to choose from. The reason most of the others can gain money and fame is they collect "followers that follow after their own folly". Ya know sort of what you find some on here.
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Mainly because we don't do a good job of representing what we stand for. Far too many "versions" out there. Mostly those who tend ot use EGW in to wrong way. We are seen as a group who above all ollow the teachings of a dead woman, over the Bible. We place emphasis on works, such as the Sabbath and diet to the exclusion of everything else.
Why would the SDA church be considered a cult? I have heard them called that, but I can't agree. Never have and after being on here with you all, still can't.
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Mainly because we don't do a good job of representing what we stand for. Far too many "versions" out there. Mostly those who tend ot use EGW in to wrong way. We are seen as a group who above all ollow the teachings of a dead woman, over the Bible. We place emphasis on works, such as the Sabbath and diet to the exclusion of everything else.
Why would the SDA church be considered a cult? I have heard them called that, but I can't agree. Never have and after being on here with you all, still can't.
Princess I have to disagree with you on this one. I think Satan has succeded in filling our heads with his lies. The emphasis is not on works and the sabbath and diet, that is the lie he has allowed us to believe. It is the opposite of that instead we are retreating back to Egypt for the meat that was there. We are becoming some of the most unhealthy sickly and we dont even understand how to keep the sabbath holy.
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Actually, Christian, the longest living, healthiest people in the Americas are the Adventists who live in Loma Linda, California. Researchers from around the world go to Loma Linda every year in order to study the Adventists and learn the secrets to their health and longevity.
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Actually, Christian, the longest living, healthiest people in the Americas are the Adventists who live in Loma Linda, California. Researchers from around the world go to Loma Linda every year in order to study the Adventists and learn the secrets to their health and longevity.
Is that because they follow health principles or is it because they have such good physicians all around them?
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Actually Johann, there was a documentary about just this subject. It was more about the Adventist hospital system, but they did talk quite a bit about Loma Linda being a Blue Zone" where folks live longer, and it was because of their diet/lifestyle. The documentary also mentioned it being an interesting development in such a area of cutting edge medical advancements. It was a very good documentary, I was proud.
Now that being said, for as long as Adventism has been in extence here in the US, why don't we have "Blue Zones" around every Advnetist church? Or at least the churches themselves. We are called to be witnesses. The Sabbath and health message are excellent witnessing tools.............what have we done wrong here. We are the one with the information, why didnt' we effectively get that out to the masses, or even more of the masses? Those are the questions we need to ask oursleves. There has been some publicity about it, Oprah did a segment, the PBS documentary, but what can we do everyday to be the most effective witnesses for Jesus Christ?
Christian, I am not saying that the Sabbath or the health message are not important, they are very important. However, far too many times those things have been focused on as ways to earn salvation. We cannot earn salvation. We dont' do a very good job of teaching that we "do" these things out of a love relationship with Christ. We want to please Him, He gave ALL for us. In everything He should be our focus. That way people know why they are vegetarians/vegans, show up on Saturdays and not Sundays for church, believe that we don't immediately go to heaven at the moment of death, etc. That is the reason these things will not be a chore. Scaroing folks into submission, or just because it is written here in this book, wont' even cut it on Judgement Day. It is keeping the Sabbath, choosing a right diet within a relationship with Jesus Christ that will count.
Actually, Christian, the longest living, healthiest people in the Americas are the Adventists who live in Loma Linda, California. Researchers from around the world go to Loma Linda every year in order to study the Adventists and learn the secrets to their health and longevity.
Is that because they follow health principles or is it because they have such good physicians all around them?
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It reminds me of the time when i first came to 3ABN. Everything seemed so perfect that I felt this must be an excellent "Blue Zone" bringing an impact of the best of Adventism to that commiunity in Southern Illinois. Some of the people I talked to were not so sure, so I thought I had better aske the "President" himself. His immedite reply was,
- No, they all hate us.
I could not believe it. Later I discovered why Danny was making a true statement at that time.
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Wait a moment... WHOA!!!
This topic is questioning whether or not 3ABN is a cult WITHIN adventism.
Not claiming that adventism is a cult.
The SDA church, in this members opinion, doesn't meet any of these described cult characteristics.
But has 3ABN approached any of these above listed characteristics?
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The SDA church is by and large a typical protestant church. Its members are average people with average lives (except that they live longer than most) and they are no more cultish than their Baptist or COG brethren. On the other hand, 3ABN has certainly shown ample signs of cultish behaviour. A brief study of cults, their leaders, and the followers, will demonstrate that by commonly accepted criteria, there is certainly a a very cultish relationship between all parties involved there.
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Jorgan Van Braun wrote an interesting story called 'THE TELEVANGELIST'. One should read that to get a good understanding of how a cult leader can draw impressionable people in and then take control over their lives.
That can be found over on the '3ABN links' on this site.
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Do you think that there are some who haven't read that yet?
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Has anyone noticed the line up of speakers and musicians for this years fall camp meeting? All staff members. Won't anyone else volunteer? ???
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i'll volunteer... ;D
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Has anyone noticed the line up of speakers and musicians for this years fall camp meeting? All staff members. Won't anyone else volunteer? ???
Yes, Herold, at one place, but then I also notice than Jack Blanco is listed as a speaker. 3ABN might sell some of his Bibles.
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What is a cult?
What is a cult? In our society, we think of a cult as a group that practices Satan worship or sacrifices animals. In reality, cults often appear as innocent groups who provide physical and religious assistance to a community.
There are basically two kinds of cults. The first kind is a manipulative group who controls its members completely and demands complete commitment and loyalty. The second kind of cult is one who deviates from biblical Christianity.
The Encyclopedia of Cults and New Religions defines a cult as: "A separate religious group generally claiming compatibility with Christianity but whose doctrines contradict those of historic Christianity and who practices and ethical standards violate those of biblical Christianity."1
The respected book Kingdom of the Cults, quotes Dr. Charles Braden as defining a cult to be: "…any religious group which differs significantly in some one or more respects as to belief or practice from those religious groups which are regarded as the normative expressions of religion in our total culture."2
Basically, what makes a religious group a cult is a denial of the essential doctrines of the Christian faith. For example: denial of the deity of Jesus Christ or the Trinity, denial of Jesus' resurrection, denial of salvation by faith, etc.
Another distinguishing factor of cults is the way they twist the Bible and interpret it incorrectly. Many cults take verses out of context, combine passages that aren't relevant to each other, and use incorrect definitions of theological terms.
These theological teachings are presented to people slowly and the thinking process of the person is gradually changed. As an inquirer hears the doctrine presented repeatedly, they gradually accept points one at a time.
1 John 4:1-3 instructs us: "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."
Learn More about Religious Cults!
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I saw that, too, Johann, but isn't Jack on the board?
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I saw that, too, Johann, but isn't Jack on the board?
That would be a recent addition. . .
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I saw that, too, Johann, but isn't Jack on the board?
He's not listed at http://www.3abn.org/administration.cfm (http://www.3abn.org/administration.cfm) as a board member.
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Thanks, Bob. I stand corrected.
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Excerpt from
The Televangelist
by Jorgan Van Braun Walking down a blue-carpeted hallway, a new employee is led to a large oak door. The secretary lightly knocks and opens the door on an airy oak-paneled office. From behind a pile of paperwork, the televangelist glances over his reading glasses toward the door. His face lights up in a warm, welcoming smile. He nods a brief dismissal to the secretary and his new employee is now alone with God’s messenger for the last days. He graciously asks the new employee to have seat on an overstuffed couch, and starts asking about this person’s life. He invites the employee to eat lunch with him at a local restaurant. Over the meal, and for another thirty minutes, the televangelist asks brief questions and listens to the new employee.
Back in his office, the televangelist goes in for what will become his insurance on this employee’s fidelity. He has asked the right questions, and listened carefully to everything that was said. He has deduced certain things about the employee’s life from the conversation. Now he says, “God has just shown me some things about you.” He gives a few generalities regarding some personal weaknesses. “The Holy Spirit is telling me that there are some problems… some secrets that you need to tell me about. You know that I already know what they are, but God is telling me that you need to confess them.” Leaning forward, he takes the employee’s hands in his own and continues, “What we talk about will stay between us and God.” Tears slide down his cheeks as he prays that God’s Spirit will fill this new employee with repentance, forgiveness and peace. Dark personal secrets are spilled. Dusty old skeletons rattle as they fall out of their closets. Painful memories are relived. A prayer of thanksgiving is intoned, tears are shed, and the meeting is adjourned.
Information gleaned from friends, relatives, co-workers, former employers, enemies, emails that are being monitored, church, and other sources is added to the file for future use.
This story has played out time and again, its conclusion being that when employees leave, they are told that if they say anything that would be detrimental to the televangelist or his ministry, their testimony will be discredited with the personal knowledge that the televangelist holds over them. The televangelist tells them, “I will be forced to protect God’s ministry by revealing to the world your history and what kind of a character you are.”
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Insurance policy
Excerpt from
The Televangelist
by Jorgan Van Braun Walking down a blue-carpeted hallway, a new employee is led to a large oak door. The secretary lightly knocks and opens the door on an airy oak-paneled office. From behind a pile of paperwork, the televangelist glances over his reading glasses toward the door. His face lights up in a warm, welcoming smile. He nods a brief dismissal to the secretary and his new employee is now alone with God’s messenger for the last days. He graciously asks the new employee to have seat on an overstuffed couch, and starts asking about this person’s life. He invites the employee to eat lunch with him at a local restaurant. Over the meal, and for another thirty minutes, the televangelist asks brief questions and listens to the new employee.
Back in his office, the televangelist goes in for what will become his insurance on this employee’s fidelity. He has asked the right questions, and listened carefully to everything that was said. He has deduced certain things about the employee’s life from the conversation. Now he says, “God has just shown me some things about you.” He gives a few generalities regarding some personal weaknesses. “The Holy Spirit is telling me that there are some problems… some secrets that you need to tell me about. You know that I already know what they are, but God is telling me that you need to confess them.” Leaning forward, he takes the employee’s hands in his own and continues, “What we talk about will stay between us and God.” Tears slide down his cheeks as he prays that God’s Spirit will fill this new employee with repentance, forgiveness and peace. Dark personal secrets are spilled. Dusty old skeletons rattle as they fall out of their closets. Painful memories are relived. A prayer of thanksgiving is intoned, tears are shed, and the meeting is adjourned.
Information gleaned from friends, relatives, co-workers, former employers, enemies, emails that are being monitored, church, and other sources is added to the file for future use.
This story has played out time and again, its conclusion being that when employees leave, they are told that if they say anything that would be detrimental to the televangelist or his ministry, their testimony will be discredited with the personal knowledge that the televangelist holds over them. The televangelist tells them, “I will be forced to protect God’s ministry by revealing to the world your history and what kind of a character you are.”
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Is the group characterized by authoritarianism? Are members who disobey to the slightest degree punished severely or excommunicated?
Part of the insurance policy?
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That policy is used in business, partnerships too in a little different tones but still the same principles. Isn't it too bad when the innocent learn their lesson too late. somehow horsethief, you had a lesson likewise we did too. But under different leadership. Guess they will all pay in the end but sure is rough now.
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Tinka: Ever been at an SDA self-supporting school? I got a strong taste of those types who can easily make our denomination seem like a cult in that environment. It took me several years to get to where I didn't feel so guilty and unsaved.
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Yes, I am familiar with those. My younger brother was talked into going to one. In fact to this day he has never recovered. He was such a sweet boy when he went. My heart aches to this day and yet my belief of truth cannot change although the worst part of our lives also came from within and in fact today I am almost at the brink of ....thinking the end of it all is near. and many regrets and many hurts, and much thoughts of ...what happened to my church and have been cornered into a place where my still connections might be just here on post to only see and run accross the same situations. Then I watched "Hope" channel and got the same views. I know there is still a few on here that seem sincere of true foundations but not many. God will judge their input to others distruction of faith. It is definitely a heart wrenching shaking time.
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Thanks Tinka... Glad you understand.
I don't mean to take us off topic. We all probably have had some kind of experience with these self-supporting/independent SDA groups. We can save that for another discussion. The point here is that there are people within the SDA denomination which unfortunately have become susceptable to groups and individuals that seek to control the thoughts and actions of as many people as they can.
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Oh, it's alive and well outside the SDA church as well. Trust me, I know.
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That's for sure ex... Yet when we as SDA members can recognize it within our denomination, then it's important that we blow the whistle...
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You are correct horsethief. I apologize for my part in hijacking the thread.
In answer to the OP, I believe it is. I base that on the people in and outside of the organization. Especially those who hide and are afraid for a very long time to go against Danny. No one shoould be afraid of him ruining their lives, etc. We seem to have more than our share of these types of groups. I don't have to name the more infamous groups, but there are so many out there.
Wait a moment... WHOA!!!
This topic is questioning whether or not 3ABN is a cult WITHIN adventism.
Not claiming that adventism is a cult.
The SDA church, in this members opinion, doesn't meet any of these described cult characteristics.
But has 3ABN approached any of these above listed characteristics?
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Might this be the same one "premiered" on BSDA? LOL!!!!
Jorgan Van Braun wrote an interesting story called 'THE TELEVANGELIST'. One should read that to get a good understanding of how a cult leader can draw impressionable people in and then take control over their lives.
That can be found over on the '3ABN links' on this site.
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I wonder if this is the same kind of group of SDA that my friend Michael became involved with in WV. They wanted him to give up everything for the church. That's why he called the church a cult.
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By highlighting the foremost of these cult groups, by exposing the stealth practices that has gotten this group where it is, then it could be the downfall of this cult group along with the others that have grown from it.
Seventh-Day Adventism is not about mind-control and intimidation. The people who want to market our message like that need to know that it's not for sale. They need to know that we are on to them. Their cult leader will no longer compare himself to Moses and Jesus without some stiff and fearless opposition.
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By highlighting the foremost of these cult groups, by exposing the stealth practices that has gotten this group where it is, then it could be the downfall of this cult group along with the others that have grown from it.
Seventh-Day Adventism is not about mind-control and intimidation. The people who want to market our message like that need to know that it's not for sale. They need to know that we are on to them. Their cult leader will no longer compare himself to Moses and Jesus without some stiff and fearless opposition.
;)
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By highlighting the foremost of these cult groups, by exposing the stealth practices that has gotten this group where it is, then it could be the downfall of this cult group along with the others that have grown from it.
Seventh-Day Adventism is not about mind-control and intimidation. The people who want to market our message like that need to know that it's not for sale. They need to know that we are on to them. Their cult leader will no longer compare himself to Moses and Jesus without some stiff and fearless opposition.
The problem with these threads and others is that we seem to be in denial, the Adventist Church is empowering Danny. If the church would stand up this entire situation could be handled in little or no time. We seem to despertly want to find some glimmer of hope some reflection of truth so that we can keep our sanity. Like the Jews of old we still think we are the truth instead of the depositors thereof. The church at large has left its resposibility and we all know that if those who were in the original church were alive today they would not even recognize it as the same church. Yes, the church does have the truth I will be the first to admit that. But like Jesus said they travel land and sea (i put air) and make ten fold the devil that they are. Someone explain to me how the church cannot see what it going on at 3abn and not step in and stop it?
;)
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Christian, one HUGE cyber hug for you!!! I used to wonder the same thing. Then some information flowed through the threads at BSDA that suggested, at least to me, that GC and 3ABN had been in bed with some kind of shady, political type dealings(getting certain folks "elected" etc.), and bascially Danny knows where their bodies lie. Apparently they also fear Danny's retribution. That is the way it sounded to me. Had GC cut their ties with 3ABN when Danny kicked Linda to the curb to marry Brandy( let's call it what it is), we definitely would not be having this discussion, this site would not exist, so on and so forth........
I have to say that it was also the first time that I realized that much corruption was in the administration of our church. I agree, if our founders were alive today, it would be much like when Jesus came to the Jews. They would basically have to start another movement to get back to what we are supposed to be. Those who followed Jesus could not go back to the established system, but they should have never had to leave in the first place.
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Wait a moment Princess Di and Christian...
I know how frustrating it is to look and see those 3ABN banners at the General Conference sessions and in other places and feeling that anxious rush that says "DON'T THESE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND?"
But let's also take into account that many of our leaders probably have a good handle on things and they realize that a this can of worms only opens from the inside. I've heard that one very influential church official whom I won't name commented of Jim Gilley. "You know that yellow streak that runs down Danny's back? Well, Jim Gilley shares that."
That statement clued me into something... It tells me that our church leadership is quite confident that the unravelling of 3ABN is imminent. That it's only a matter of time until their arrogance and manipulations cause them to implode.
Just be patient. I personally don't think they can recover from this child molestation scandal. Especially if it becomes a civil court action.
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Ok, Horsethief. I will give you that. However, we "pay" those leaders to lead with our tithe. Joe Blow who throws his wife over for Gidget, gets disfellowshipped, at the very least censured. A teen age girl gets pregnant and she most defintiely get disfellowshipped, without the father if he is a member. Nobody stands and waits to see what happens. But in celebration of our new peaceful existence and you extending me a second chance, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. You just might know what you are talking about. :-)
Wait a moment Princess Di and Christian...
I know how frustrating it is to look and see those 3ABN banners at the General Conference sessions and in other places and feeling that anxious rush that says "DON'T THESE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND?"
But let's also take into account that many of our leaders probably have a good handle on things and they realize that a this can of worms only opens from the inside. I've heard that one very influential church official whom I won't name commented of Jim Gilley. "You know that yellow streak that runs down Danny's back? Well, Jim Gilley shares that."
That statement clued me into something... It tells me that our church leadership is quite confident that the unravelling of 3ABN is imminent. That it's only a matter of time until their arrogance and manipulations cause them to implode.
Just be patient. I personally don't think they can recover from this child molestation scandal. Especially if it becomes a civil court action.